Bactrian Campaign Feedback

[Bava]

As i finished my campaign with Baktria yesterday (Victorraayyy!), i want to give you EB guys some feedback.


First of all i have to say you really succeded in giving Baktria a unique touch. The mosaic GUI, the eastern backround music and the huge variety of greek, persian and indian units result in a great gameplay experience.
And to allow some "persian blood" in the familiy tree is a nice idea!
I really grateful for the extremly detailed unit/building descreptions, reading it really helps you to immerse into the era.

I played on H/H, large settings with BI-exe. After i´ve read the "How to play with BI" thread, i decided to make things not overly complicated and just changed the shortcut from RomeTW.exe to RomeTW-BI.exe and ... it works!
The only thing that might be not right is that i saw rebel stacks with gold and silver upgrades, but that happened only twice and not on my territory.


My campaign lasted from 272 to 228 and i had 2(!) ctds, one non-reproduceable on the campaign map (end turn) and one after a battle with reenforcements, but i fought many of those and it only happened once. So stability has vastly improved in comparison with 0.74, great job!

Progression over the years:

250

https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/4281/rometwbi250bz3.th.png (https://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometwbi250bz3.png)

240

https://img91.imageshack.us/img91/5310/rometwbi240rg5.th.png (https://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometwbi240rg5.png)

228

https://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7123/victoryip9.th.png (https://img241.imageshack.us/my.php?image=victoryip9.png)


Economy:

Uh well, the mines. When i saw the mine upgrades for the first time
my thought was "+10000...wtf?!". At the beginning i really drowned in cash
and i started to worry about a boring campaign. At the beginning my bactrian warfare mainly was about bribing entire seleukid stacks and sendind them back to their actual owner. Great fun! :laugh4:

But as i expanded i desperately needed the mine income, because:

1. Due to the huge distances i had to field 2 high quality full stacks to defend
my borders effectively against Arche Seleukia. The armies alone arent the
problem, but their reenforcements are (per full stack half a stack of
reenf.).
Things got worse when Pahvala and the Sakae declared war on me and i
had to pay the upkeep for 3 additional armies to defeat them.

2. Garrison unit costs due "distance to capital" is a problem.

3. you cannot trade with your neighbours because you usually are at war with
all them and you have no cash cow like sea ports in the Mediterranean.


After all i´ve read you´re going to generally nerf the mine income a bit, but i suggest to leave Baktria as is or perhaps give them an additional upgrade (+2000, +4000, +7000?).


Military:

Well, as i said before the huge array of units is great and i love the heavily amoured horse archers and the Hoplitai Indoi! The only thing that bothers me a bit (and only a bit) is that they have no real unique infantry unit like the seleukid Thorakitai Argyraspidai. If historical accuracy allows it (though i doubt that ), perhaps merge the Baktrion Agema and the Pheraspidai and/or give one of them something like 12 attack and 28 defense stats. I think that would add a nice touch to a bactrian battle line as the rest of the infantry faction units are pretty much average (the stats, not the skins!).

Here is one of my full stacks:

https://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3116/armyxy1.png

I killed a lot of seleukids with these guys :2thumbsup:

Against Pahvala and the Sakae my stacks were mostly horse skirmishers/archers

I´m really interested in gameplay hints and formations of other baktrian players because it was the second time i played Bakria (one RTRPE) and I
certainly need some guidance from experienced players.



P.S. Thank you EB team for this great mod! It is really one of a kind and worth every single day of wait!

P.P.S sorry for my bad english

[Teleklos Archelaou]

That stack is downright evil! Glad to see you're having a blast with the Baktrians.

[Constantine the Great]

My Baktrian campaign ended prematurely when the Seleukidssent a full stack against my almost empty capital while I was campaigning in the Indus valley....

[Zastrow]

Similiar to my situation, I had just sent off a full stack and a half to the indus and then bam, Seleukids and Parthians betray me and its all over. As for Baktrian battle tactics, I much prefer a hammer and anvil style, or pike-flankers with a weak center and a general behind it. Draws the enemy right into a killing zone, just support your pike flankers with some light cavalry. :beam:

[Bootsiuv]

I'm currently playing Baktria, except it's on the Extended Greek Mod (an awesome mod, and, at only ~40 MB, it's great for those few 56kers still out there).

I've found that conquering the Indus, gaining access to the Indian ocean, all the while keeping Parthia and the Seleucids happy, is a good early strategy (but you should expect to play some tough battles where you may be significantly outnumbered, especially in the first few years while you're main army is off conquering the surrounding Indian kingdoms).

For a bit of roleplaying, I often accept an offer to become the Seleucids protectorate state, until I'm a little more developed, when I redeclare my independence....I assume that the Indus region would be just as important to Baktria in EB.

BTW, as soon as I get high speed, the first thing I'll be doing is downloading EB. :yes:

[Zarax]

Well, the two mods got different balance and development (Baktria is quite vanilla-ish and not much more than a copy of seleucids in XGM) but in any case having the indus valley gives you a nicely covered backyard and decent cash bringer...

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Are those units left of the Baktrioi Agemata Thorakitai? Because, in my version they have a different picture, so, which version did you use for this campaign?

[Marcus Cornelius]

Well, this thread was originally from December of last year, so it's probably .72? I can't remember the second number but I'm 95% sure it starts with a 7.

EDIT: Oh, no wait. It's probably .8
I'm tired and am not thinking straight.

[Bootsiuv]

Well, the two mods got different balance and development (Baktria is quite vanilla-ish and not much more than a copy of seleucids in XGM) but in any case having the indus valley gives you a nicely covered backyard and decent cash bringer...

While I'm sure you're 100% right....XGM is a million times better than vanilla IMO....just the larger map makes it worth downloading, as far as I'm concerned.

EB would have taken 40+ hours to download with my connection, assuming nothing happened in that time to kick me off.:embarassed: :thumbsdown:

[Brightblade]

dude it's called DSL... no one uses dialup anymore..

[d'Arthez]

dude it's called DSL... no one uses dialup anymore..
And everybody lives in the US ... or places where DSL does not cost 125 times the price of DSL in the US.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Even in the US there are plenty of places with no DSL. Like where I live. I have a dialup and have to drive an hour to a university if I want to download something large, then I burn it on a CD and bring it home.

[Wolfman]

dude it's called DSL... no one uses dialup anymore..
Luckily I have Broadband. I feel sorry for the guys that have dialup.:no: I don't think I could ever go back.

[Sygrod]

...Going back to the thread title....

I am having a blast with the Baktrian faction. Arche Seleukeia decided to attack me 269BC, just after I had taken Kophen. I managed quickly to capture Alexandria Ariana and Propthasia and sat on these laurels for a while. It was now 268BC. I kept AS at bay with the forces that I had, but they kept coming and coming. Slowly, I added better units. After beating their armies, I offered ceasefire and trade rights. This kept trade economy alive. I concentrated on economic upgrades in all settlements, and only upgraded MICs in Baktra.

Pula was captured in 262BC and I kept a close eye on Karmana, where AS were slowly building a larger army and finally filled the city with units. Obviously not a good candidate for a take-over.

I discovered a mod, where AI cash gifts by the script are toned down, and AS suddenly stopped sending stack after stack at my cities. It had become tedious, fighting off 2-3 besieging armies per turn.

I started to offer ceasefire at a cost of 1000Mnai, and got some cash this way, sincce AS just would not get the fact that I kept beating them and perhaps it was not a good idea to attack me. To keep AS busy, I gifted Hayasdan 300Mnai per turn.

I am a big fan of arms-length fighting, and have recruited a great number of missile troops. Still, my armies are reasonably balanced, with 2-3 missile units, a cavalry unit and 2-3 close combat units. With larger armies, the ratio is the same, with a couple of specialty units and a general or two for heavy hitting.
Eastern slingers come highly recommended. 33% more soldiers than the Hellenic variety. Horse archers are also extremely useful. They come in handy when the enemy army decides to leave the battlefield and you want to inflict casualties and other units can't catch up. Elephants have been somewhat dissapointing so far. They scare the enemy armies off the field before I get a chance to attack.

My tactic on the battlefield is to take out as many of the enemy's missile troops as possible, while minimizing my own losses. A good way is to send out cavalry while the enemy regroups. Many times, I have destroyed one or two missile units before the army got settled in their new position and started to fight back. Using a wall of phalanx units in thin formation (3-4 deep) as protection against melee units and cavalry, I bring my missile units closer to the enemy lines and pound first the missile troops, if there are any. I then switch archers to soft infantry and cavalry and slingers to armoured units. Once the enemy missile units are gone, I try to position slingers around the enemy units and direct them to hit enemy phalanxes in the back as they are trying to attack my units, to maximize effect. Thus, the slingers can reduce even large armies if phalanxes to nothing. As soon as they break and try to leave the battlefield, I send cavalry to finish off the farthest units and let my missile troops follow and pound on the heavier enemy units. Often, but not always, I manage to destroy the enemy army.

For 20 years this went on. I added new, more formidable units to the line-up. 3span projectors (I just love these) and Thorakitai, to mention a couple. During this time, I was getting a positive cash flow from mines and trade of between 5000 and 15000Mnai, allowing me to expand the army and even set up building construction queues by governors with building rebates.

As the AS finally gave me a break, I built up an army and sent it to Gava-Haomavarga in 248BC, where a strong Eleutheroi army stood between me and the town, which also had a decent crew. This was a battle, I could not fight with my skill set, and decided to auto-resolve. BIG victory, but took over 50% losses. I had to send units back in small groups to Baktra to fill in the ranks.

244BC, with army repaired and cheap garrison troops for Gava, I assaulted and took Sulek. My army was comparable to the garrison and it was a hectic battle. I sent my best units back to Baktra to replenish and moved a 12 unit stack of good troops to the western border. Time to take some AS territory. I was attacked by AS (as usual) and proceeded to move the army to Hekatompylos, which was sparsely defended. Siege. Well, AS moved up an army and attacked. This battle was interesting. I had a general, a Baktrian cavalry unit, two Pezhetairoi units, some lighter infantry, 3 Hellenic slinger units and two Persian archer units. My army was positioned on a steep slope and I arranged it with the melee troops in a semi circle and missile troops behind. The enemy armies were utterly destroyed. The only unit to get away was the general defending the city. When it came time next turn to assault the city, he had managed to dredge up a Hellenic Spearmen unit. I took the city... 240BC. AS attacked next turn with an army of over 2000 men. Lots of Pandotapoi Phalangitai. I really had my hands full, but got a heroic victory out of the deal.

After consolidating the position and gaining control of city, I set my sights on Apameia, which was taken 235BC, followed 233 by Zadrakata. Man, they were unhappy in this city. I had revolts for over a year. I decided to negitiate peace (as I usually do, when I am done fighting) and the counter demand was for Zadrakata. I countered with wanting Asaak. They countered with Cease fire, Trade rights and Asaak for Zadrakata and 19500Mnai. I took Zadrakata off the table and they accepted!!!! Cheapest city I ever got. I was stunned. Danged city broke out with the plague within a year. Hmpf.

In a different ceasefire agreement, I got AS to attack Ptolemaioi. That has kept them busy. Must be why they have left me be for a while.

I have now reached 229BC and just managed to capture Gandhara after a well fought battle with the garrison troops, after they exited the city and attacked my army some distance from the city. Again, thin line of phalanxes with missile troops behind, including a 3span projector unit. Generals charged Indian longbowmen as army tried to outflank me on the right. 30% losses sustained by bodyguard cavalry. Missile troops slaughtered the enemy units and my newly recruited Agema and cavalry finished the army off.

I am setting my sights on taking the rest of the indian provinces and have set up an offensive army to invade AS, when they attack me. This army will take a city just north of the Persian Gulf. Not sure which one yet. I want a military port.

/Sygrod

[pezhetairoi]

My Baktrian campaign. I think I'm easily the craziest Baktrian around. XD I ignored India, had the Sakae, Pahlava and AS pounce on me within 6 years together, and eventually broke the AS in fire and blood. That's right, I conquered every Seleukid province, right up to Sardis. I also annihilated the Pahlava and Sakae, and it was 240 BC by then. I quit after that because garrison costs and public order were REALLY getting to be a problem. XD

And the catch? I did it all with Pantodapoi Phalangitai. XD My first Pezhetairoi barracks were only completed in 244, and that was in Baktra. The next in Seleukeia was finished in 243, and the pezhetairoi contingents hadn't even made it to my 2 frontline balanced armies before I quit. XD

I had five armies, two in the far east, composed purely of Baktrioi Hippeis to deal with the unwalled Sakae cities, and three in the far west, two 'city-breakers' composed of 2 somatophylakes, 4 Mada Asabara, 6 pantodapoi phalangitai, and 8 war-winning Shuban Fradakshana, and 1 'army-breaker' composed of a full stack of Pahlava and Dahae horsearchers. XD Alright, I had a unit or three of Misthophoroi phalangitai too, but that was it. How that for nuttiness, eh. XD

Now I'm playing Romani, and I'm experiencing a reaction against the blitzing strategy I used for Baktria. Now I'm taking my time. It's 258 and I've just finished taking Southern Italy and Sicily. XD At this time in Baktria, I was already finishing off Susa and Ekbatana. XD

[MiniMe]

Hehehe, Baktria campaign is great for its variety of choices.

Mine Baktria strategy is rather different.

I'm Pahlavans best friend as long as they don't betray me.

My only city with 4 level MIC is Baktra and it spawns Pezhetairoi and Thorakitai every turn.
As for the rest, I guard everything else with these widely mentioned brilliant iranian archer-spearmen troops, that are cheap cheap cheap and die young.

Saka crazy cataphract dudes are finished. They dare stub me in the back. Maybe the reason of it was my Thorakitai stack near their capital, i don't know, I'm not sure.

Another stack of Thorakitae was sent to establish cultural relations into India. They are proud of their mission and can't wait till they meet new interesting people, kill them all, burn their houses and enslave their relatives.

As for AS, I eat them slow =)

[pezhetairoi]

I couldn't eat them slow in my campaign, they kept sending irritant stacks into my territory, and two stacks weren't enough to cover the ground. Also, the AS in this campaign loved to summon instant fullstacks of mercenaries. At one point I had two misthophoroi fullstacks in addition to a whole lotta love coming my way. I had to take a loan to bribe the stacks away because it was bloody unfair, even for an AI with lotsa money, and was 6-digits in the red for many, many turns after that.

[Sygrod]

Well, here is an update:

Year is now 223BC. AS did attack and I responded in kind. I sent an army of assassins and diplomats into their territory and trashed their "happy-buildings". Persepolis revolted and broke away to Eleutheroi. I bribed Charax, Karmana and Susa for under 30k each. It cost a bit to repair the infrastructure, but it was worth it. In the mean time, Pontos, Makedonia and Ptollies have divvied up AS' wetern territory, so that AS only have mesompotamia, Margiane and Gabene left. AS power is broken.

I only have Sind left to take in India. Then I am going to consolidate and build armies for inevitable war with Ptollies and possibly Saka Rauka, if they attack.

A quick toggle_fow showed that Lusotanna are almost wiped out. Aedui expanded across Gaul at the expense of Arvernii, but are now being steamrolled by Romani. Aedui control northern Iberia as well. Sweboz is the biggest surprise. They control the entire north of Europe and have expanded into modern Russia. Qart Hadastim, Epeiros and Getai have only expanded a bit. Makedonia has wiped Koinon hellenon, which is holding on to Rhodos only.
Pahlav and hayasdan have not expanded, Sauromatae have only expanded a little. Saba has the entire coast of the Saudi peninsula.