Historically accurate regions and cities [Archive]

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peri

12-15-2006, 09:09

I thought it might be a good idea to have a definitive list of historically accurate regions and cities for M2TW 1.1 in order to help modders.
I have made a start with the following and I hope you will contribute with your suggestions and corrections to achieve this goal.
I will add all sensible suggestions to the list and leave it to the contrubutors to haggle over the accuracy.
Also I want to thank each contributor in advance so I dont have to clog up the thread with countless 'thanks' posts.

For those who are unsure about modding this aspect it is a very simple process.
Lord Condormanius's post shows how this is done
Link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1351673&postcount=9)

Cities - Regions

London - Wessex
Caernarvon - Wales
Nottingham - Mercia
York - Northumbria

Edinburgh - Scottish Highlands
Inverness - Scottish Lowlands
Dublin - Ireland

Rouen - Normandy
Rennes - Brittany
Bruges - Flanders
Antwerp - Friesland
Angers - Anjou
Paris - Paris
Metz - Lorraine
Toulouse - Toulouse
Rheims - Champagne
Dijon - Burgundy
Marseilles - Provence

Breslau - Silesia
Staufen
Frankfurt - Franconia
Bern - Swabia
Hamburg - Saxony
Stettin - Pomerania
Magdeburg - Magdeburg
Innsbruck - Bavaria
Nurenberg
Prague - Bohemia
Vienna - Austria

Arhus - Denmark
Helsinki - Finland
Oslo - Norway
Stockholm - Sweden

Pamplona - Navarre
Barcelona - Catalonia
Leon - Leon
Toledo - Castille
Lisbon - Portrugal
Granada - Granada
Valencia - Valencia
Cordoba - Andalusia

Milano - Lombardy
Genoa - Genoa
Venice - Venice
Bologna - Bologna
Palermo - Sicily
Cagliari - Sardinia
Ajaccio - Corsica
Naples - Naples
Rome - Papal States

Zagreb - Croatia
Ragusa - Dalmatia
Sofia - Bulgaria
Bran - Transylvania
Bucharest - Wallachia
Cracow - Little Poland
Iasi - Moldavia
Corinth - Achaea
Constantinople - Thrace
Thessalonica - Thessalonika
Durazzo - Epirus
Iraklion - Crete
Rhodes - Rhodes

Nicaea - Nicaea
Nicosia - Cyprus
Jersusalem - Jerusalem
Antioch - Antioch
Edessa - Edessa
Blank (Acre) - Tripolis
Adana - Little Armenia
Damascus - Syria

Algiers - Algiers
Tunis - Tunis
Tripoli - Tripoli

Julius_Nepos

12-15-2006, 09:35

Well here are some thoughts of mine on this, and I for one fully support editing the cities/regions to reflect the historical situation more accurately.

* If your going to have Barcelona, then the province should be Catalonia, rather than Aragon.

* Might Caen not be changed to Rouen in Normandy?

* Cordoba could very easily be placed in the region of Andalusia

* Shouldn't Cracow be in Little or Lesser Poland?

* I didn't see Damascus in there but shouldn't that city be in Syria?

* Paris should probably be in the Ile de France province.

* Couldn't Milan be placed in Lombardy, and Florence in Tuscany?

Anyway those are just my thoughts at the moment, have a good early morning!

Lord Condormanius

12-15-2006, 20:56

I don't know about this list. Caen should stay (Rouen is a different city). Zaragosa is not Barcelona. Rome should be in the Patrimony of St. Peter. and if you want to get technical, Dublin is actually Baile Atha Cliath...there are many other changes that can be made as well, depending upo what parameters you set.

Julius_Nepos

12-15-2006, 21:12

I've made numerous changes to the names of cities/regions in my M2TW installation, using mod switch. Though the game always crashes with an "unspecified" error when I attempt to begin a new grand campaign. I have no idea where my mistake is, but since I used numerous non-standard characters in the names of cities and regions I wonder if the game is incapable of using them and is thus choking, any ideas?

redmark

12-15-2006, 22:05

Of course Caen and Rouen are different cities, but Julius_nepos is correct - the capital of Normandy should be Rouen (further east), not Caen. The English regions should not be called Wessex, Mercia etc: that was one of the first things William abolished. The capital of Scotland should be Perth, not Edinburgh. Etc. To be honest, I'm not sure it's useful to suggest historical 'region' names for ahistorical city selections; the map needs more significant modding. (Sorry).

(Note, the OP has Scottish Lowlands and Highlands the wrong way round).

redmark

12-15-2006, 22:17

and if you want to get technical, Dublin is actually Baile Atha Cliath...

Not in medieval times it isn't; they were separate towns - Baile Atha Cliath being settled only in the 10th century. The use of the name now reflects a desire (slightly misplaced in this instance, IMO) to use 'Irish' names while neglecting the fact that Dublin is simply an anglicisation of Dubh Linn, the original Irish name of the original town.

Julius_Nepos

12-15-2006, 23:22

redmark is quite right about the cities, many of them being not quite right, in my own brief research I've found out that for one Bucharest didn't even exist in the 11th century. Although I have yet to get past the "Unspecified error" thing, I've made a number of changes to reflect more accurate cities in terms of time frame. Swapping Helsinki for Turku, Stokholm for Uppsala, Bucharest for Campulung to name a few. I'm also unsure what kind of historical regions we could come up with that would be better than the names already available. Trebizond, Aleppo, Baghdad haven't been forthcoming in appropriate region names in my research anyway.

It's good stuff, I just wish I could fix it so it doesn't crash constantly!

Julius_Nepos

12-16-2006, 01:40

Just an update, I've not been able to get M2TW to boot at all since I started modding regions. These are the files I've made changes too:

* descr_regions
* descr_sound_music_types
* descr_regions_and_settlement_name_lookup
* descr_strat
* descr_mercenaries
* imperial_campaign_regions_and_settlement_names

At first I thought I had made a typo, but after many many runs through of editing, I realized the "Unspecified errors" couldn't be from a misplaced letter. I ran a test changing only references of "Iconium_Region" to "Anatolia_Region", this was the only change I made. There were no typing errors, and the game still quit with an "unspecified error." I can't determine what the problem is only I can't get the game to boot at all if I make any changes to the region files. What's my next move here? Thanks ahead of time!

Lord Condormanius

12-16-2006, 02:18

If all you want to do is change region/settlement names, you only have to edit 1 file, "imperial_campaign_regions_and_settlement_names"

This is the file that has the names set up like this:

{Inverness_Province}Inverness Region
{Inverness}Inverness

Do not change anything that is inside the brackets, only change what is outside. After you have made you changes, save and close the file.
*IMPORTANT* you must delete the BIN file that has the same name as the file that you updated (it is in the same folder). Then delete the map.rwm file from the base folder. When your new game loads, it will create new versions of these files, based on your new information. If you forget to trash these files the first time after making the update, you will crash.

I hope that helps.

Julius_Nepos

12-16-2006, 08:54

well L-C, I've gone back and changed only the file you specified. At first it seemed to work and the game went into the grand campaign selection screen and referred to Jerusalem Region as Palestine. However once I tried to begin a campaign with any faction the game quit. After remembering to remove the map file from the base folder and fixing a typo in the text file I restarted again, this time it quit with an "unspecified error." It appears that any change I made to the imperial_campaign_regions_and_settlements_names file results in a "unspecified error" and a crash to the desktop. I changed the file save from unicode to ANSI, I removed all special characters, yet the same result, CTD.

I can not in anyway explain what the problem is, all I'm doing is changing names in a single file, and the game works if the file is clean/unchanged. I'm going to attempt to do some more tests by changing one city name, one region name and then go from there. There must be a reason for these "Unspecified errors" and I don't know what it is. I do remember to delete the string file/map file when they actually do get made, otherwise I can't think of what would be causing me all these problems.

Success!, problem solved: Apparently when editing the appropriate file (imperial_campaign_regions_and_settlements_name) it is important to remember to retain the "Region" statement after each name change, that is, if you name "Caen Region", Normandy, the game wont allow you to start a campaign, it has to be Normandy Region. Not sure why this is but once I made the change everything works just fine. Thanks for the help.

MaximianusBR

12-27-2006, 23:59

I'm using vanilla version and decided to change region names...so i unpacked and changed everything like explained in some tutorial that other people used too and worked perfectly...just created a new .txt file via notepad used the model and modded the names, after it just substituted the vanilla one for the new one...read in the tutorial that if you don't delete the imperial_campaign_regions_and_settlement_names.txt.strings.bin and the map.rwm it crashes...so i deleted both...
but when i start the campaing(new) it just seems to ignore the modification...
anyone knows why?????please???
here's a copy of my modded imperial_campaign_regions_and_settlement_names.txt for anyone to compare:

¬ Generated by localisation spreadsheet
{North_America}North America Region
{Miccosukee}Miccosukee
{Inverness_Province}Lowlands Region
{Inverness}Inverness
{Oslo_Province}Norway Region
{Oslo}Oslo
{Stockholm_Province}Sweden Region
{Stockholm}Stockholm
{Helsinki_Province}Finland Region
{Helsinki}Helsinki
{Novgorod_Province}Novgorod Region
{Novgorod}Novgorod
{Moscow_Province}Muscovy Region
{Moscow}Moscow
{Riga_Province}Livonia Region
{Riga}Riga
{Arhus_Province}Denmark Region
{Arhus}Arhus
{Volga-Bulgar_Province}Volga-Bulgar Region
{Bulgar}Bulgar
{Edinburgh_Province}Highlands Region
{Edinburgh}Edinburgh
{Vilnius_Province}Lithuania Region
{Vilnius}Vilnius
{Smolensk_Province}Smolensk Region
{Smolensk}Smolensk
{Dublin_Province}Ireland Region
{Dublin}Dublin
{York_Province}Yorkshire Region
{York}York
{Caribbean_Isles}Caribbean Isles Region
{Caribbean}Caribbean
{Ryazan_Province}Ryazan Region
{Ryazan}Ryazan
{Caernarvon_Province}Wales Region
{Caernarvon}Caernarvon
{Thorn_Province}Prussia Region
{Thorn}Thorn
{Stettin_Province}Pomerania Region
{Stettin}Stettin
{Nottingham_Province}Nottinghamshire Region
{Nottingham}Nottingham
{Hamburg_Province}Saxony Region
{Hamburg}Hamburg
{Cholula_Province}Texcoco Region
{Cholula}Cholula
{Antwerp_Province}Friesland Region
{Antwerp}Antwerp
{Magdeburg_Province}Magdeburg Region
{Magdeburg}Magdeburg
{Halych_Province}Volhynia Region
{Halych}Halych
{Cracow_Province}Lesser Poland Region
{Cracow}Krakow
{Sarkel_Province}Khazar Region
{Sarkel}Sarkel
{London_Province}Wessex Region
{London}London
{Breslau_Province}Silesia Region
{Breslau}Breslau
{Bruges_Province}Flanders Region
{Bruges}Bruges
{Kiev_Province}Kiev Region
{Kiev}Kiev
{Frankfurt_Province}Franconia Region
{Frankfurt}Frankfurt
{Metz_Province}Lorraine Region
{Metz}Metz
{Tlaxcala_Province}Tlaxcala Region
{Tlaxcala}Tlaxcala
{Caen_Province}Normandy Region
{Caen}Caen
{Prague_Province}Bohemia Region
{Prague}Prague
{Rheims_Province}Champagne Region
{Rheims}Rheims
{Nuremburg_Province}Bavaria Region
{Nuremburg}Nuremburg
{Rennes_Province}Brittany Region
{Rennes}Rennes
{Paris_Province}Ile-de-France Region
{Paris}Paris
{Hohenstauffen_Province}Swabia Region
{Hohenstauffen}Staufen
{Iasi_Province}Moldavia Region
{Iasi}Iasi
{Tenochtitlan_Province}Tenochtitlan Region
{Tenochtitlan}Tenochtitlan
{Budapest_Province}Hungary Region
{Budapest}Buda
{Angers_Province}Anjou Region
{Angers}Angers
{Bran_Province}Transylvania Region
{Bran}Bran
{Vienna_Province}Austria Region
{Vienna}Vienna
{Caffa_Province}Crimea Region
{Caffa}Caffa
{Dijon_Province}Burgundy Region
{Dijon}Dijon
{Bern_Province}Helvetia Region
{Bern}Bern
{Innsbruck_Province}Tyrolia Region
{Innsbruck}Innsbruck
{Bordeaux_Province}Aquitaine Region
{Bordeaux}Bordeaux
{Tbilisi_Province}Georgia Region
{Tbilisi}Tbilisi
{Bucharest_Province}Wallachia Region
{Bucharest}Bucharest
{Sofia_Province}Bulgaria Region
{Sofia}Sofia
{Venice_Province}Venice Region
{Venice}Venice
{Toulouse_Province}Languedoc Region
{Toulouse}Toulouse
{Milan_Province}Lombardy Region
{Milan}Milan
{Leon_Province}Asturia Region
{Leon}Leon
{Zagreb_Province}Croatia Region
{Zagreb}Zagreb
{Florence_Province}Tuscany Region
{Florence}Florence
{Ragusa_Province}Dalmatia Region
{Ragusa}Ragusa
{Toledo_Province}Castille Region
{Toledo}Toledo
{Pamplona_Province}Navarre Region
{Pamplona}Pamplona
{Genoa_Province}Liguria Region
{Genoa}Genoa
{Trebizond_Province}Trebizond Region
{Trebizond}Trebizond
{Marseille_Province}Provence Region
{Marseille}Marseille
{Bologna_Province}Bologna Region
{Bologna}Bologna
{Yerevan_Province}Armenia Region
{Yerevan}Yerevan
{Zaragoza_Province}Aragon Region
{Zaragoza}Zaragoza
{Lisbon_Province}Portugal Region
{Lisbon}Lisbon
{Constantinople_Province}Constantinople Region
{Constantinople}Constantinople
{Thessalonica_Province}Thessalonica Region
{Thessalonica}Thessalonica
{Ajaccio_Province}Corsica Region
{Ajaccio}Ajaccio
{Roman_Province}Rome Region
{Rome}Rome
{Caesarea_Province}Rum Region
{Caesarea}Caesarea
{Nicaea_Province}Nicaea Region
{Nicaea}Nicaea
{Naples_Province}Southern Italy Region
{Naples}Naples
{Baghdad_Province}Baghdad Region
{Baghdad}Baghdad
{Cordoba_Province}Andalusia Region
{Cordoba}Cordoba
{Durazzo_Province}Epyrus Region
{Durazzo}Durazzo
{Iconium_Province}Anatolia Region
{Iconium}Iconium
{Valencia_Province}Valencia Region
{Valencia}Valencia
{Mosul_Province}Mesopotamia Region
{Mosul}Mosul
{Cagliari_Province}Sardinia Region
{Cagliari}Cagliari
{Edessa_Province}Edessa Region
{Edessa}Edessa
{Adana_Province}Lesser Armenia Region
{Adana}Adana
{Smyrna_Province}Asia Minor Region
{Smyrna}Smyrna
{Antioch_Province}Antioch Region
{Antioch}Antioch
{Granada_Province}Granada Region
{Granada}Granada
{Brazil}Brazil
{Fortaleza}Fortaleza
{Aleppo_Province}Aleppo Region
{Aleppo}Aleppo
{Palermo_Province}Sicily Region
{Palermo}Palermo
{Corinth_Province}Achaea Region
{Corinth}Corinth
{Marrakesh_Province}Morocco Region
{Marrakesh}Marrakesh
{Isle_of_Cyprus}Isle of Cyprus Region
{Nicosia}Nicosia
{Acre_Province}Tripoli Region
{Acre}Acre
{Algiers_Province}Algeria Region
{Algiers}Algiers
{Tunis_Province}Tunisia
{Tunis}Tunis
{Isle_of_Rhodes}Isle of Rhodes Region
{Rhodes}Rhodes
{Damascus_Province}Syria Region
{Damascus}Damascus
{Jedda_Province}Arabia Region
{Jedda}Jedda
{Isle_of_Crete}Isle of Crete Region
{Iraklion}Iraklion
{Jerusalem_Province}Palestine Region
{Jerusalem}Jerusalem
{Gaza_Province}Sinai Region
{Gaza}Gaza
{Tripoli_Province}Cyrenaica Region
{Tripoli}Tripoli
{Alexandria_Province}Northern Egypt Region
{Alexandria}Alexandria
{Arguin_Province}Arguin Region
{Arguin}Arguin
{Timbuktu_Province}Sahara Region
{Timbuktu}Timbuktu
{Cairo_Province}Egypt Region
{Cairo}Cairo
{Dongola_Province}Nubia Region
{Dongola}Dongola

please help!!

Sebastian Seth

12-28-2006, 00:21

Also switch the capital of finland from Helsinki to Turku. Helsinki was founded 1550.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turku

MaximianusBR

12-28-2006, 00:52

anyone knows how to make the game stop ignoring my changes in region names for god sake(sp??)!!!

alpaca

12-28-2006, 02:18

anyone knows how to make the game stop ignoring my changes in region names for god sake(sp??)!!!
Because you did something wrong presumably. Are you using a mod folder or file_first ?

MaximianusBR

12-28-2006, 02:23

Because you did something wrong presumably. Are you using a mod folder or file_first ?

thanks for the attention :bow:

I used File_first...don't know why it's not working...any thought?

can anyone who suceeded modding it upload this file to me here??

peri

12-28-2006, 17:16

I dont know what you have done wrong but if you do the following it will work.
Dont unpack anything.
Create the mod switch and create the basic new mod (given in many tutorials)
Edit the orginal file you cited and place that in the new mod in the appropriate folder(found in the zips that CA gave us ages ago)
Delete the rwm folder
This should work.

MaximianusBR

12-28-2006, 22:21

fenir

12-30-2006, 08:56

Just a couple of observations,

Edinburgh - Scottish Highlands
Inverness - Scottish Lowlands

Should be

Edinburgh - Scotland
Inverness - Caledonia or modern use highlands

Barcelona - Catalonia =
Would actually be the Kingdom of Aragon. Catalonia only being a part of Aragon Kingdom before the marrige of Castille and Aragon Kingdoms.

Nicaea - Nicaea = Bithynia

Jersusalem - Jerusalem = Judea or the Roman name Palestine
Adana - Little Armenia = Cilica
Thessalonica - Thessalonika = Macedonia
Constantinople - Thrace = Constantinople
Sofia - Bulgaria = Thrace as most of the area it covers is thrace. And the bulgars didn't really get anything going to the late period.
Really shouldn't be a castle at Sofia.

Bruges - Flanders
Antwerp - Friesland = Should be Brabrant Friesland was higher around Utrecht.

Bordeaux = Aquitania
Paris - Paris Or Orleanais or Blois

Hamburg - Saxony, but can be holstein, Changed hands a few times before becoming an imperial city.
Breslau - Silesia
Staufen = Swabian diet........... Should be biberach of the HohenGeroldseck due to it's placement, real trouble makers in their time, made famous the foot knights (ritters) of Swabia (ask a person who knows Baden -baden history). And close allies of the Hohenstaufen and Hohenzollern, But the family Hohenstaufen, whose main castle is on the far eastern side of Swabia, with hohengeroldseck on the far west side and hohenzollern in the middle.

Frankfurt - Franconia Town might be more correct to be called Geinhausen, as this was the main castle of the Hohenstaufen emperor for middle Franconia Diet. Or at a strecht kaiserlautern. Western side castle.
Bern - Swabia = Swiss Confed more correct
Stettin - Pomerania
Magdeburg - Magdeburg = Brandenburg or Archbishop of Magdeburg within Brandenburg
Innsbruck - Bavaria =Tyrol
Nurenberg =Bavaria
Prague - Bohemia
Vienna - Austria

In many parts, the map is very hard to define, area wise, as i feel, unlike other Total war games, not much thought has gone into this map and it's historical feel for immersion.
Whereas all the other TW games had atleast the historical relavence to start with, and develop from, this one has totally done away with any link.
Hence the Choice of making region names to circumvent any historical relevence.

fenir

Ziem

12-30-2006, 15:37

Those lowland regions are a bit tricky. Brabant was part of the Holy Roman Empire but had a high degree of autonomy. Friesland is even more trickier. Friesland officialy belonged partially to De graaf (Earl) van Holland, de Graaf (Earl) van Gelre (southern part of the netherlands) & the bishop of Utrecht. Again all of them had pledged allegiance to the Holy Roman Empire but had als high state autonomy. Then we have Antwerp which until 1200 was part of first the Earl of neder-Lotharingen (lower-Lorraine), Earl of Limburg (Limbourg), Earl of Brabant even the Earl of Holland said it was his. And the winner in 1200 was......The then upgraded from Earls to Dukes of Brabant. All these Earls and Dukes were ofcourse officialy part of the HRE.

Confusing isnt it? :laugh4:

Z.