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View Full Version : Lets talk about factions : Scotland



FrantzITA
01-02-2007, 23:16
How was the scottish warrior ? how was the scottish knight ?
we have some books that show them as normal knights or soldiers ( ospreys with mcbride ) , we have some sculptures that show them too as normal knights ( but you cant show an hero as a poor man , right ? ) , a couple of drawings showing them a poor standard soldiers , we have a movie that show them as barbarian/celts ( braveheart ) and we have a game that show them with armoured knights too ...
The tartan was presents with celts ...possible that was totally disappeared in McBride illustrations ? to return heavily in 1600 + ? ...
so how were the scottish ?? what you think ?

i personally tend to belive that knights were heavily chainmailed with use of boiled leather maybe , i belive no way we would see a plate ( the armoured/noble pikemen in mtw are a joke ) , they were imported in england lets figure how many were imported in scotland ( scottish museum had to import some from italy ) !! would be nice to see some tartan below them ... pikemens too , some leather and chainmail protection ( little standardization and quality ) while the poorest class would have been dressed in braveheart style ...they were dressed quite in the same way at Culloden more than 400 years later !!

classic units

the pikemen clan militia
the forced pikemen coscript
highland rabble
clan nobles
scottish archer ( short bow )
scottish knight ( mounted or not )
light scottish cavalry

Randarkmaan
01-04-2007, 00:15
Peasant levies and clansmen and the like probably wore clothes resembling kilts, and I'd guess than on the whole that soldiers from Scotland would not have much access to high quality equipment, but the Scottish nobility were Normans as were the English nobility and propably were very similar in costume and arms.

Icefrisco
01-04-2007, 00:45
im not sure if the scots had mounted knights and if they did i no they didnt have many. this is because there was always trouble with horses in the moutnaineuos landscape.

Miloshus
01-04-2007, 17:21
Ifnantry didnt have any armour. There was an infantry rule ; hit him before he hits you , why? They had poor defense, what can you expect from armed peasants? Only the richest (nobles) had chanmail and a bit better armour.

FrantzITA
01-05-2007, 12:35
Some other notes ...

The Claymore wasnt in use until 1500+ ... while some part of the infantry had some halbeard/sword staff a bit like the voulge french units and were just behind the schiltron ( the schiltron as we see in mtw is probably a fantasy formation , it was probably just a block of pikes withe the last row ready to change facing to counter a cavalry charge ( that why i say that rear attacks had to be made less powerful ).

Miloshus
01-06-2007, 20:22
Some other notes ...

The Claymore wasnt in use until 1500+ ... while some part of the infantry had some halbeard/sword staff a bit like the voulge french units and were just behind the schiltron ( the schiltron as we see in mtw is probably a fantasy formation , it was probably just a block of pikes withe the last row ready to change facing to counter a cavalry charge ( that why i say that rear attacks had to be made less powerful ).

It would make no sense in making rear attacks less powerfull; it would be end to tactics!!!!!!!!!!:no: :no:

FrantzITA
01-06-2007, 22:00
Well it will be the end of winng fot micromanaging better that the AI ... the problem is that is not possible for the rear rank to counter the assault ( only after the charge is finished !! ) so to compensate this would be fair to decrease the rear charge bonuns ... so it would be like the rear rank have saw the cavalry coming and faced them .

CrownOfSwords
01-07-2007, 01:18
No the schiltron was an actual formation introduced by William Wallace, I forgot the name of the battle but the formation was done with a much larger force than just one unit I believe his entire force made only 2 or 3 of them. But the point was to hold the infantry while his small force of cavalry did a suicidal charge to kill the English longbowmen in the end the cavalry chickened out and the schiltrons were destroyed by missile fire.

edit battle of falkirk : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Falkirk_%281298%29

FrantzITA
01-07-2007, 13:34
yes but i meant that the "circle" schiltron is probably an exhageration , in some osprey's they say that it was a sort of very tight pike unit with some attention to the flanks and rear

Ruutiukko
01-11-2007, 23:34
Actually, the Scottish nobility in the later years (1400->) did mostly fight as dismounted, armoured pikemen, forming the first ranks of the schiltrons, they took heavy casualties in Flodden, 1513(?).