Graffiti Mafia [Concluded]

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Game Started!

New mafia game, sign up now! :balloon2:

There will be three mafioso's, who can kill 2 per night.

There will be 3 masons, each with a special power.

These roles are all standard so far. There will also be:

A soothsayer. Has the ability to ask me via pm any yes/no question at some time during the game. I will answer their question in the thread with a yes or a no, but will not reveal what the question was. The soothsayer will be randomly selected after the other roles have been handed out, so he can be townie, mason, or mafia. Can only ask one question per game, is not allowed to reveal his role individually.

The godfather. He choose the three mafioso. Everyone knows who he is however he can't be killed and he can't be lynched. He is allowed to vote however. He will not be considered in endgame, i.e. if the town lynches the other 3 mafia they win.

The mafia group and the mason group each have a special power, which is the reason for the thread title. This will be revealed day 1.

There may be a twist.

Mafia rules are standard. Dead can talk, votes must be bolded, can vote no lynch or abstain. No screenshots to prove role, pm quotes allowed. Please unvote before voting again. Days and nights last 24 hours, I may extend it depending. I will wrath of god those who don't participate enough, please inform me if you can't for a good reason.

There are three mafia (besides godfather). They will start with 2 kills a night, but if one of them dies they will only have one kill a night. They can choose not to kill. They can't choose to kill eachother.

There will also be other roles besides those listed in this post.

Signed up (27):

Caius Flaminius
discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Warluster
Xiahou
Kagemusha
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Reenk Roink
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Masy
Csar (last)

[Csargo]

First

[Caius]

Second

[discovery1]

Third!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Ooh, sounds pretty neat.

Fourth. :yes:

[Proletariat]

Woohoo! In for my first of '07

[Dutch_guy]

Nice, sounds good.

In

:balloon2:

[JimBob]

Dibs

[Don Corleone]

I'm in.

[Csargo]

Man that's messsssssssssssssssssssssssssed up.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Okay.

[Warluster]

This is my first game's of these, I dont really get it but will probaly pick it up on the way! So I will join please.

[Xiahou]

I'm game.

[Kagemusha]

Sign me in.:bow:

[AggonyDuck]

Sign me up. :yes:

[Sir Moody]

Im in

[Peasant Phill]

Special powers, oohh.

I'm in

[Sigurd]

I am back... hungry for more mafia.

[Ituralde]

Can't let that lynch in round one deter me!
Sign me up!

[Husar]

Ludus sum.:bow:

[doc_bean]

I will wipe out these so called 'mafia' thugs !

[Reenk Roink]

Reenk join Reenk

[Kommodus]

Since I'm not quite ready to start my next game, count me in. :2thumbsup:

[Sigurd]

Nothing much going on here… so I might as well share a little story.



During the holydays I played my first live game of Mafia… you know where people are gathered in a living room sitting in a big circle with a narrator that walks the crowd etc.
Well I was one of the n00bs there not having played this kind of game before *cough* …

The time came for the first round and the narrator gave roles by telling everyone to open their eyes when he touched their shoulder.
Someone touched my shoulders and when I looked up, the agreed upon sign of Mafia was staring me in the face. I thought: “Damn, I really wanted to see how this game was played before getting THAT role. The narrator finished his round and it was night time. He asked the Mafia to open their eyes. I opened mine and pointed to a random participant and closed my eyes again. The narrator called for the detective to open their eyes then called daytime and the opening of all eyes.
One of the participants started the conversation with: “I am the detective and that person is mafia, pointing at me”. I looked at him with a shocked expression on my face and couldn’t believe that my first game of live mafia would end so soon.

What to do, what to do? Then the battle training from .org kicked in and I attacked him Sasaki style; “What is this, how can you make such a claim? You are obviously mafia trying to gain the trust of all here in this room so you can continue your killing spree under the cover of a false detective. I hereby call the true detective to reveal so we can put this Mafia to rest once and for all”. Nobody claimed of course so I continued overpowering the weak attempts of this detective to establish trust with the other players. “I think the true detective is keeping hidden until the right time of reveal as he/she obviously have not investigated the mafia as of yet. I call for the lynch of that man, who obviously does not have clean flour in his bag (that is the Norwegian term for someone that has not a clear conscience). He is clearly a liar”. I guess these players were not accustomed to such strong outbursts or accusations thinking me upset of wrongly being accused. I was one of the lynch candidates of course but I swayed the crowed and got the detective lynched. What now? There is only one mafia in these games and there would be another kill the next night and lo and behold another player bought the bucket.

Luckily in these games there is no thread or posts that you can re-examine for clues. If I can keep this crowed off their feet long enough they will forget about the incident at the start of the game. I took the lead accusing another playing for smiling funny during the wake up to this new day. She got all defensive, but pointed to another player saying that he was acting different than usual. A little more finger pointing back and forth and it was time to name the lynch candidates. I called the person I had accused first. Another player was called and there was a vote. Hehe, I slipped under the radar this round. If I can get away with it next round nobody would remember the first incident. I kept quiet the next day and I was not picked as a lynch candidate and the smiling girl who I accused earlier got lynched.
This continued and I saw the dead players shaking their heads when I opened my eyes during the night. The Narrator was good as he also asked for the detective to open his eyes. I put in a word or two during the reminder of the game getting by round for round.
Three players remained; myself, a girl and a boy. It was daytime and the girl who had just finished a seven year medical education and was becoming a doctor looked at me with an accusing look and pointing an accusing finger at me: “I think it is him”. I had to retaliate. She had been quite active in the latest rounds and was a new player like me. I gave it my best and I can’t exactly remember what I said, but it was in the lines of: “You have been acting the innocent, I haven’t played this game before, I am just an n00b all night”. I was about to add ‘Don Corleone style’ but didn’t.. “I think that would be the perfect Mafia cover. I say she is the Mafia”. She got all defensive saying that was certainly not the case. I continued: “If you are not Mafia and I know I am not Mafia, then who is?”. I looked at the last player. “Aha, you have been quiet all night, thinking to slip past our scrutiny by just sitting there quiet and let us lynch each other, huh?” He spoke up for the first time saying I was full of it and named me as lynch candidate. I retaliated naming him as our lynch candidate. The girl was wavering I could tell so I called the vote. I voted for the boy and he voted for me. It was up to the girl. And she voted for the boy…

The roles were revealed and I had just won my first live mafia game. The detective spoke up and asked how it was possible not to lynch me after round two when it was obvious that he was not mafia… I guess I created a little confusion and I must admit that I never thought that I would be able to pull that stunt. Hehe I guess live games are a little different than the online written ones. I will assert that if using the things we have learned here during our games, we will rule the live games.
I was not picked for any other roles during the rest of the night, but I will say this; only one other mafia won a game that night and that was the game he killed me first.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

hahaha niiice ~D

[Csargo]

nice story Sigurd. I have yet to play a live game, but I plan on doing it soon.

[Dutch_guy]

Nice going there Sigurd, you totally had them by the sound of it ! :2thumbsup:

Needless to say, I doubt you'll survive long this game :/

:balloon2:

[Csargo]

So uh when do we begin?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So uh when do we begin?

I was about to start, but now I think I'll wait a looong time

deja vu!

[Csargo]

I was about to start, but now I think I'll wait a looong time

deja vu!

Alright.

Your a lucky guy Sasaki getting to mod this great little forum. Cushy job:beam:

[Caius]

Lets start.

[Sigurd]

Nice going there Sigurd, you totally had them by the sound of it ! :2thumbsup:

Needless to say, I doubt you'll survive long this game :/

:balloon2:
Ah, but you see my dear Hollender. In this game the dead are allowed to speak.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Alright.

Your a lucky guy Sasaki getting to mod this great little forum. Cushy job:beam:

I also have to mod the Shogun forums and you have no idea how much work that is.

[Csargo]

I also have to mod the Shogun forums and you have no idea how much work that is.

I bet.:beam: Sure would be nice to mod this forum though.:beam:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Lets start.

I'd like at least 5 more. The more the merrier. I'll leave it open for a couple days.

[Csargo]

I'd like at least 5 more. The more the merrier. I'll leave it open for a couple days.

Way to ruin the day Sasaki.:bigcry:

[Csargo]

I don't think anyone else is going to join.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Oh yeah? Count me in.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Oh yeah? Count me in.

You signed up yesterday :stare:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

You signed up yesterday :stare:

....:oops: .....would you believe a "vodka flashback?"

actually, I just wanted to tweak Csar a bit. Childish, but there it is.

Vote: Csar

Because it's never too early to roll the wagon!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Maybe I'll start the game with 22 with a bit of a rules adjustment.

[UltraWar]

Sign me up

[Al Khalifah]

If it's not too late sign me up!

[Csargo]

24 woooo

[Sasaki Kojiro]

24 woooo

spam woooo

[Csargo]

spam woooo

Start woooooooo

[Caius]

spam woooo
Where are the mods?

I'm waittttttttinnnng anxious

[Dutch_guy]

Where are the mods?

I'm waittttttttinnnng anxious

Sasaki is a mod.

:balloon2:

[Ignoramus]

Can I join?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Update:

There are three mafia (besides godfather). They will start with 2 kills a night, but if one of them dies they will only have one kill a night. They can choose not to kill. They can't choose to kill eachother.

There will also be other roles besides those listed in the first post.

[GeneralHankerchief]

but if one of them dies they will only have one kill a night

Uh-oh.

Gentlemen (and lady), prepare yourselves. For we're about to play another Godfather game. :hide:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Uh-oh.

Gentlemen (and lady), prepare yourselves. For we're about to play another Godfather game. :hide:

We might have less people than I'd thought, this should weaken the mafia a bit. Though historically it's only served to confuse the town :bounce:

Sign ups close in 24 hours.

[Divine Wind]

Thanks for the PM Sasaki. Im in!

[Masy]

Is there still time to jump in here? (Also your pm made me feel special...)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Is there still time to jump in here? (Also your pm made me feel special...)

Added.

I sent the pm to the 12 people who'd joined Mafia V but not this game, so don't feel so special :laugh4:

[Caius]

Lets start...

[Sasaki Kojiro]

*Signups closed*

[Sasaki Kojiro]

It is now nighttime. I need pm's from people.

If you didn't get a pm, then you are just a simple townie.

[discovery1]

HEY EVERYBODY I'm GODFATHER!

Mess with me and you get a close up view of the bottom of Lake Meade.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

^^confirmed

[Drisos]

Gah too late to sign.. I'll watch :book:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Everyone know that discovery1 was the godfather of the evil mafioso family. But what could they do? He sat in his casino with his tommy gun all day, there was no way they could lynch him. With all the politicians he had in his pocket (word on the street was that he allowed them free access to his basement full of hookers) he could even vote.

[AggonyDuck]

So our best option is to pretty much ignore everything that disco does when voting etc.?

[Al Khalifah]

Unless its a bluff to throw us off.

[Dutch_guy]

Unless its a bluff to throw us off.

Indeed, it can work both ways - which basically means we shouldn't take that much heed of who Disco votes for ?

:balloon2:

[Caius]

He wants to dizzy us.If you understand.

[discovery1]

Dizzy wants to throw you in a tizzy.

[Kagemusha]

Best way is to completely ignore what Disco is saying so he cant mess with our minds.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Best way is to completely ignore what Disco is saying so he cant mess with our minds.

Agreed.

Is there any way we can put him on "ignore?" Or is that just in the chat?

[Xiahou]

Agreed.

Is there any way we can put him on "ignore?" Or is that just in the chat?
Well, it depends really. Common sense would indicate that anyone he votes for will be innocent- of course, following that logic, he may vote for one of his mafiosos in order to clear them. It's the timing that will be really important, as it's extremely unlikely that he'd put a critical vote on one of his mafiosos.

It bears watching, just be mindful that it may be misdirection.

[Sir Moody]

its more likely he will be really evil and abstain every round so not to give hints...

[GeneralHankerchief]

of course, following that logic, he may vote for one of his mafiosos in order to clear them.

:wall:

Yeah, but why do you say it out loud? It's just like when people were telling everyone how going invisible was so great in Cosa Nuova - which you were mafia in, by the way.

You're suspicious.

[Reenk Roink]

I will no longer use words to communicate after this point (you will still see my votes in verbal form for ease but that's it).

:bow:

[discovery1]

:wall:

Yeah, but why do you say it out loud? It's just like when people were telling everyone how going invisible was so great in Cosa Nuova - which you were mafia in, by the way.

You're suspicious.

I'm insulted. How dare you even think that such a course of action had not already occurred to me.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I will no longer use words to communicate after this point (you will still see my votes in verbal form for ease but that's it).

:bow:

Interesting. Slightly suspicious of course, but interesting. It would certainly serve as one means of avoiding the Kommodus Detective service.

:listen: ~:wacko:

:spider: :creep:

:tomato: ~:dizzy: :fainting:

[Kommodus]

Interesting. Slightly suspicious of course, but interesting. It would certainly serve as one means of avoiding the Kommodus Detective service.


Hm, possibly. I guess it remains to be seen how ol' Reenk does plan to communicate, if not with words. All-smilies, perhaps? Encrypted messages? Hieroglyphics? :egypt:

Heh. I'd be on top of all of those in no time flat. :idea2:

[Csargo]

Going a little slow today Sasaki. ;)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Night fell on the town. Usually night time was peaceful and quiet but not tonight.

***

Kagemusha woke up because he heard a loud pounding at his door.

"Who is it?" Kage grumbled.

"SILENCE PEON! YOU HAVE HEREBY BEEN FOUND GUILTY AND ARE SENTENCED TO IMPRISONMENT IN THE DUNGEON!"

Kage opened the door. Standing there was a lrage man dressed in a full suit of armour.

"Um, guilty of what?"

"LITTERING."

"Littering?"

"LITTERING. YOU'RE FATE HAS BEEN DECIDED. DO YOU HAVE A DUNGEON?"

"Dungeon? Um... no."

"NO DUNGEON? WELL THEN, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY THE PENALTY."

"Penalty?"

"YES." And the man in the suit of armour took out out a sword and cut Kage's head off.

He went back to his carriage and got in where his faithfull lizard was waiting for him.

"SO FAR, SO GOOD, FLUFFY" he said to his lizard. ANd the carriage sped away.

***

Stepping outside early in the morning, Caius notices a small remote-controlled car zooming to and fro on the sidewalk. Thinking the vehicle is being controlled by one of the neighborhood children, he approaches, looking around for the driver. Suddenly the car turns and zooms straight for him! He chuckles and stoops down to pick it up. As soon as he touches it, a powerful current of electricity courses through his body, killing him almost instantly.

*****

It is evident that the mafia godfather, discovery1 is no longer content to sit idly by! His henchman have infiltrated the town and are striking down it's inhabitants. It is your job as the town to find out the mafia and lynch them by a democratic voting process. You have 24 hours.

As the townspeople gathered by the town courthouse to vote, they noticed some graffiti on the wall:


The other letter is of Loki
Do no heed its harmful words.
Knowledge we will collect
And distribute to the denizen's of the Gameroom

Who was this message from and what does it mean, the townseople ask themselves.

Killed (2):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha

Alive: (25):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Warluster
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Reenk Roink
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Masy
Csar

Get to voting!

[discovery1]

Hey everybody. You know, property taxes the next town over are very reasonable.

[Csargo]

I'll Abstain for now

[Csargo]

When do we find out what the special abilities of the masons and mafia are Sasaki?

[UltraWar]

This looks like something that GH would do....

Vote:GeneralHankerchief

[Don Corleone]

I'm guessing that based on the message, both the masons and the killers will leave us grafiti. They'll each try to sway us one way or the other with their grafiiti. The problem is, I doubt the killers are dumb enough to write their grafiti as killers, they'll pretend to be the masons too. Our job will be sorting out which group is which. Then, go back and look at all the clues left by the true masons and see if we cannot figure it all out.

As for these kills, there are several people it 'could' have been. The only thing we can say for certain is that it was neither Kagemusha or Caius Flamius.

Sorry, Caius, this is your 2nd early exit. I would highly encourage these two, and all soon-to-be deceased to continue participating. Your insights carry extra weight, as you have been proven innocent.

Reenk, since you cannot talk with words, please post a yes smiley or a no-smiley based on the answer to this question... Are you role-playing this silence business? (Yes means it's your decision, no means you're doing it because it was assigned to you; :help: Means none of the above).

Vote: Abstain (until we get some more clues)

[AggonyDuck]

It appears like the Graffiti is a way for the Masons to communicate with us, or for the Mafia impersonating the Masonsn in a worst case scenario. It will remain to be seen how either party will use it, but it seems to have interesting options.

[Csargo]

This looks like something that GH would do....

Vote:GeneralHankerchief

I wouldn't jump to conclusions so soon.

[AggonyDuck]

At the moment I'd avoid lynching anyone, because there is an equal chance that we end up lynching a pro-townie. Although at the same the voting might bring us more clues though, so the question is: Is it worth the risk of lynching a pro-townie in hopes of getting clues?

[Proletariat]

This 'it's too early' schlock never gets us anywhere.

Vote: Csar

I can see Csar, due to his short history of being a somewhat bland author here, going out of his way and coming up with that 'pay the price' bit. It's also early and I'm hung over and could be swayed still, but for right now, thassalligot.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hmm, a few things to work with...

Graffiti ideas sound good. This could be a big help to us in the future. Or, possibly a huge hinderance. Since it's clear that only one message has been up today, and we know who it's from, this gives the town an advantage because we know from the get-go the style of the masonic messages.

As for kills, this could be anyone. Someone could either be doing an obvious "screw you" to Kage's curse or not know about it at all. However, going by the mechanics of Kage's kill (armour, lrage, etc.) I'm going to

Vote: Sir Moody

for now.

[Csargo]

This 'it's too early' schlock never gets us anywhere.

Vote: Csar

I can see Csar, due to his short history of being a somewhat bland author here, going out of his way and coming up with that 'pay the price' bit. It's also early and I'm hung over and could be swayed still, but for right now, thassalligot.

If you go back and look at my game then you'll notice that neither one of those is my writing style. Nice try though.:sweatdrop:

[Sir Moody]

jeez you make a few spelling mistakes and now you get votes because the kills have a few tiny errors in... im not the only one who cant type/spell you know...

well in the classic style of my mentor Reenk im going to have to

Vote: General hankerchief

in retaliation...

[GeneralHankerchief]

:laugh4: Nice, now I have two votes, neither of them for any good reasons aside from "it sounds like something he would do" or in retaliation. The mafia must be laughing their heads off somewhere.

[Csargo]

:laugh4: Nice, now I have two votes, neither of them for any good reasons aside from "it sounds like something he would do" or in retaliation. The mafia must be laughing their heads off somewhere.

I highly doubt that. :inquisitive:

[Dutch_guy]

Hmm, a few things to work with...

Graffiti ideas sound good. This could be a big help to us in the future. Or, possibly a huge hinderance. Since it's clear that only one message has been up today, and we know who it's from, this gives the town an advantage because we know from the get-go the style of the masonic messages.

As for kills, this could be anyone. Someone could either be doing an obvious "screw you" to Kage's curse or not know about it at all. However, going by the mechanics of Kage's kill (armour, lrage, etc.) I'm going to

Vote: Sir Moody

for now.

General, you are one of the most experienced players out there, I fail to understand why you still take heed of kill methods, and for that matter, descriptions. Plus, taking into account the possibility of a counter vote, which you got, I don't quite understand why you didn't go for Ultra instead. You're, at the moment, getting lynched if the lynchings were to take place now.



If you go back and look at my game then you'll notice that neither one of those is my writing style. Nice try though.

Well, prole did say she was hung over ~;)

:balloon2:

[Proletariat]

If you go back and look at my game then you'll notice that neither one of those is my writing style. Nice try though.:sweatdrop:

Hence the 'going out of his way'. Where did you steal the idea for your kill from, anywho?

Csar needs to be put to death

[Csargo]

Well, prole did say she was hung over ~;)

:balloon2:

That's why I didn't vote for her ~;)

[Csargo]

Hence the 'going out of his way'. Where did you steal the idea for your kill from, anywho?

Csar needs to be put to death

It came to me in a vision:sleeping:

What's this sudden obsession with my death? Am I that big of a threat to you and your mafioso buddies?

[Sir Boo]

General, you are one of the most experienced players out there, I fail to understand why you still take heed of kill methods, and for that matter, descriptions. Plus, taking into account the possibility of a counter vote, which you got, I don't quite understand why you didn't go for Ultra instead. You're, at the moment, getting lynched if the lynchings were to take place now.

:balloon2:

That is a very good point posted by Dutch_guy, why did General not vote in retaliation on Ultra, yet instead voted for Moody?

However at the present time in my view shouldn't jump to any conclusions...

[Proletariat]

Unvote: Csar

Hrm HM HM.

Still nothing to go on at all, so I'll Vote: Sir Moody to try and keep GH around.

[Reenk Roink]

It would certainly serve as one means of avoiding the Kommodus Detective service.

:2thumbsup:


Hm, possibly. I guess it remains to be seen how ol' Reenk does plan to communicate, if not with words. All-smilies, perhaps? Encrypted messages? Hieroglyphics? :egypt:

:yes:
:yes:
:no:


Heh. I'd be on top of all of those in no time flat. :idea2:

:laugh4: :rolleyes: ~;p


Reenk, since you cannot talk with words, please post a yes smiley or a no-smiley based on the answer to this question... Are you role-playing this silence business? (Yes means it's your decision, no means you're doing it because it was assigned to you; :help: Means none of the above).

:yes: + :help:

:wink:


well in the classic style of my mentor Reenk im going to have to

Vote: General hankerchief

in retaliation...

:yes: :2thumbsup:



Kagemusha woke up because he heard a loud pounding at his door.

"Who is it?" Kage grumbled.

"SILENCE PEON! YOU HAVE HEREBY BEEN FOUND GUILTY AND ARE SENTENCED TO IMPRISONMENT IN THE DUNGEON!"

Kage opened the door. Standing there was a lrage man dressed in a full suit of armour.

"Um, guilty of what?"

"LITTERING."

"Littering?"

"LITTERING. YOU'RE FATE HAS BEEN DECIDED. DO YOU HAVE A DUNGEON?"

"Dungeon? Um... no."

"NO DUNGEON? WELL THEN, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY THE PENALTY."

"Penalty?"

"YES." And the man in the suit of armour took out out a sword and cut Kage's head off.

He went back to his carriage and got in where his faithfull lizard was waiting for him.

"SO FAR, SO GOOD, FLUFFY" he said to his lizard. ANd the carriage sped away.

:listen: ----- :2cents:

~:argue: :argue: :gossip:

:deal:

1) GeneralHankerchief
2) Kommodus
3) Reenk Roink

Vote: General Hankerchief

[Sir Moody]

ok what is with prole - she normally lurks with few posts but suddenly shes rabidly going after csar and then for no real reason unvotes him and goes for me...

unvote: General hankerchief
Vote: Prole

just too odd to ignore

[GeneralHankerchief]

I voted for Sir Moody because I think he's a mafioso, whereas Ultra is just acting like Ultra. Retaliation votes solve nothing.

And yes, I have always paid attention to kill descriptions, especially in the first round. If you don't believe me, examine the last two games (Csar's and Sir Moody's). Even if I'm wrong at least we usually get some valuable information from the host on how much they write, and it starts some discussion.

(edit for slight grammar error)

[Dutch_guy]

And yes, I have always paid attention to kill descriptions, especially in the first round. If you don't believe me, examine the last two games (Csar's and Sir Moody's). Even if I'm wrong at least we usually get some valuable information from the host on how much they write, and it starts some discussion.

(edit for slight grammar error)

Well, I didn't state you never paid attention to the kill descriptions (I'm willing to believe you on that) but rather that they aren't as important (mafia catching wise) as many of us thought in the very first few mafia games. Writing style, though, is as you correctly stated an important factor of a kill. And that should be discussed, not the appearance of the murderer - which rarely ever gives us an insight as to who the mafioso might be.

While you may think the murderer, by the appearance of the murderer, is Sir Moody, I'd say the appearance could point to just about any player. Not one name per sé.

:balloon2:

[Sir Boo]

In response to Generals post this does answer a few questions why you didnt vote in retaliation...


ok what is with prole - she normally lurks with few posts but suddenly shes rabidly going after csar and then for no real reason unvotes him and goes for me...


After looking up the last mafia game Proletariat was in she did indeed spend most of the time making very few posts until she was killed. However in this mafia she seems to be behaving completely differently. By making a vast number of posts. For now, unless more evidence appears I will be voting...

Vote Proletariat

(Edited to Bold Generals name)

[GeneralHankerchief]

Writing style, though, is as you correctly stated an important factor of a kill. And that should be discussed, not the appearance of the murderer - which rarely ever gives us an insight as to who the mafioso might be.

While you may think the murderer, by the appearance of the murderer, is Sir Moody, I'd say the appearance could point to just about any player. Not one name per sé.

I don't get the difference. Writing style factors in appearence. Sure, there's a lot more to it than that, but the mechanics of that kill (British spelling of "armour", a few spelling mistakes) points to Sir Moody. Besides, it being the first round, there is little else to go on.

[Kommodus]

The writing style of the first kill would seem to point to one of the following:

Sigurd Fafnesbane
Reenk Roink
GeneralHankerchief
Divine Wind

They've been the ones who have written odd theme-kills in the past. Obviously the killer could intend for us to think this way. Remember how Seamus used the Bible-references to start a wild goose-chase after those who had biblical knowledge in Mafia V?

As DG says, going by kill description is not the best idea. It's the mafia who write the kills, and they're more likely to try to mislead than give clues.

Going back over Sasaki's rules, it looks like we have four bad guys (including discovery1) and four good guys (3 Masons plus the soothsayer). However, one of the bad guys can't be lynched, which means our chances of killing a good guy may be slightly higher.

Obviously, at any given point we don't know how many good guys are still alive, since they may be killed by the mafia. However, since this is the first turn, I think the odds are pretty good that all of the good guys are still out there.

Also, despite the smaller-than-usual number of players, we may have more chances to lynch the mafia than we think. Remember this rule?


There are three mafia (besides godfather). They will start with 2 kills a night, but if one of them dies they will only have one kill a night. They can choose not to kill. They can't choose to kill eachother.

As soon as one of the mafia is lynched, they drop down to one kill per turn.

All these things considered, I'd like to give the masons one more turn to gather useful information. Until more data is available,

Vote: No Lynch

P.S. Looks like I guessed correctly about Reenk's new mode of communication...

[JimBob]

Kommodus makes a good case for not lynching this turn. Numbers are not in our favor.

Vote: No Lynch

[AggonyDuck]

According to the opinions stated above both in my post and Kommodus' post, I will join the no lynch crowd.

Vote: No Lynch

[Dutch_guy]

I don't get the difference. Writing style factors in appearence. Sure, there's a lot more to it than that, but the mechanics of that kill (British spelling of "armour", a few spelling mistakes) points to Sir Moody. Besides, it being the first round, there is little else to go on.

Well, since last game (when the difference between US and British spelling was highlighted) I don't even pay attention to those anymore either. It's just to simple for a mafioso to make such a 'mistake' and lead to town astray.

PS: Wouldn't it be better for us townies to lynch a lurker, instead of a somewhat active player ? If it is, that said, not better to vote No lynch this round ?

:balloon2:

[Csargo]

Unvote:Abstain
Vote:GH

[Reenk Roink]

The writing style of the first kill would seem to point to one of the following:

Sigurd Fafnesbane
Reenk Roink
GeneralHankerchief
Divine Wind


:listen: ----- :2cents:

~:argue: :argue: :gossip:

:deal:

1) GeneralHankerchief
2) Kommodus
3) Reenk Roink

:wink:

[JimBob]

Adding on to Kommodus's logic

There will also be other roles besides those listed in this post.
And I doubt that its 'Secret Extra Mafia Members 1-15'

[Al Khalifah]

I'm rather of the opinion that a lynch reveals more useful information for the town than no lynch at all. Its as unlikely that we'd lynch someone who is from the pro-town side in a specialist role as it is that they'd be a mafioso. Most likely we'll just lynch a random. And speculation towards their potential lynching can bring out a guilty one into making a mistake to reveal their true identity.

I'm going to say:

Vote: Dutch guy

[Caius]

:gah2:
Thats all?

I will cry.

[Ituralde]

I was gonna try to write some insightful argument about how it's better to not lynch anyone on round on, but Kommodus beat me to it. I agree with the points he has made. The firs lynches are often random and tend to kill a pro-townie. With the option of no lynch available one should follow that path and encourage discussion some more.

Vote: No Lynch

Encouragment of discussion will occur once I have more time to post.

[discovery1]

Hmmm....

All this talk gives me a cunning plan.

Mafia, make room in your in boxes.

[Dutch_guy]

I'm going to say:

Vote: Dutch guy

And why is that ?

:balloon2:

[Sigurd]

Ooooh…

Killing Kage in the first round are we? I guess the Mafia wants to prove something here.

Reading Sasaki’s rules again it seems the graffiti thing is a special power?
Right now I can’t make sense of it.
As far as I know Loki did not have a specific letter in the Fuþark. Is the grafitti referring to the Norse God at all? Is the Loki reference a clue that we are dealing with an encryption here? Like the letters from a certain Loki that have the people of the web chasing this DaVinci code look alike codeword to enter a certain webpage before the time is up .. http://www.vanishingpointgame.com/ (http://www.vanishingpointgame.com/)..

The wording does suggest that we should sit tight and wait for further instructions though.

While we wait another tidbit of information from Sasaki’s rules says Discovery1 will choose his henchmen.
Well.. We now know that the mafia has not been chosen randomly. We have to ask ourselves; who would discovery choose?
I pressed him for this information in the chat .. was it yesterday? .. and he replied:
Prole, Csar and Husar.

I am inclined to believe that he would not name any of his henchmen to me in the chat… or ?
Discovery has been mafia before and has something to prove this time as he is quite hair sore from that experience. I am inclined to believe that he has at least one experienced Mafioso in his retinue, if not two.

[Husar]

Let us think.

1. The Godfather chooses his henchmen, for reference, read the opening post.
2. Reenk indicates Kommodus may be guilty.
3. Kommodus does not mention any of his "methods" and calls Reenk suspicious.
4. Kommodus wants no lynch.

Now the discoman might have chosen Kommodus to get rid of that evil "method" that is supposed to find mafiosi, who knows?

But I'd like some thoughts from others on that before jumping to conclusions.

[Masy]

No suspicions as yet, Vote: Abstain for now.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Let us think.

1. The Godfather chooses his henchmen, for reference, read the opening post.
2. Reenk indicates Kommodus may be guilty.
3. Kommodus does not mention any of his "methods" and calls Reenk suspicious.
4. Kommodus wants no lynch.

Now the discoman might have chosen Kommodus to get rid of that evil "method" that is supposed to find mafiosi, who knows?

But I'd like some thoughts from others on that before jumping to conclusions.

Very good point.

Pro - Kommodus is an experienced player, with a noted series of methods that have been proven to find mafiosi. Disco might want to harness this ability.

Con - Kommodus has become something of a target for both the mafia and villagers of late (Interficio, anyone?). Would Disco risk K falling under suspicion for managing to stay alive for so long?

My vote still stays.

[Kommodus]

3. Kommodus does not mention any of his "methods" and calls Reenk suspicious.

:inquisitive: Um, no I didn't. Can you point out where?

I included Reenk in my list of people whose writing styles might be said to match one of the styles used here. (He made a similar list and included me in it; I guess that's a judgement call.) I then immediately said that I didn't think kill descriptions were particularly reliable as evidence.

As for my methods, well, they take a bit longer than one round to acquire the necessary data. You do the math.

As for why I want no lynch, I already gave my reasons. On the other hand, it has been shown that accusing people for the purpose of generating discussion can be quite effective in drawing out the guilty, so I understand why not everyone will go along with me.

[Warluster]

Vote:Proletariat

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Midday vote count:

No-lynch 4 (Kommodus,JimBob, AggonyDuck, Ituralde)
GeneralH 3 (ultrawar, Reenk Roink,Csar)
Proletariat 3 (Sir Moody, Sir Boo, Warluster)
Sir Moody 2 (GeneralH, Proletariat)
Dutch_guy 1 (Al Khalifah)

Abstain 1 (Masy)

[Xiahou]

Vote: Reenk
We need more information from our townies than obscure pictograms- fun though they are. Also, the colorful writing style of the first kill makes me think of Reenk- he's known for his roleplaying and themes from prior games. Do I know he's mafia? Of course I dont, but we've got to start looking somewhere and he's my strongest suspicion atm.

[Sigurd]

not much voting going on...

Vote: No Lynch :laugh4:

[Husar]

Vote: No lynch

I'm not convinced of anything yet.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hmmm. As usual, nothing definitive has emerged in round 1 (well nothing that is definitive in the moment, retrospection may teach us more).

25 survive.

Disco and his three moles.
3 Masons.
1 Soothsayer -- not exclusive with the above roles, so can't count it.
1+ "hidden" roles.

Of the 24 names in play, three are bad'uns, 3 are good'uns (though the number may be less now), and 1 or more are unknown quantities. The good guy/bad guy ratio is a tie. In fact, since the opening murders generated a better than 15% chance for the mafia to kill at least 1 of the Masons, it could be argued that the chances of lynching a mafia randomly are greater than the chances of lynching a townie.

Consider the perfect mafia scenario:

27 - 2 murdered = 25 (where we are now)
1 lynch yields 24

24 - 2 murdered = 22
1 lynch yields 21

21 - 2 murdered = 19
1 lynch yields 18

18 - 2 murdered = 16
1 lynched = 15

15 - 2 murdered = 13
1 lynched = 12

12 - 2 murdered = 10
1 lynched = 9

9 - 2 murdered = 7 [mafia win with 4-3 control]

EDIT: Note that 1 "no lynch" creates a 4-4 tie at this round, not a townie win. We'd have to forgoe 2 lynches to add a round. And that's forgoing pressure on the mafia too.


However, against the risk of decreasing our numbers further, 1 mafia kill will result in a halving of the murder rate. With this size of a field, a longer killing process will be incompatible with likely mafia victory.

So, with the chances of a random slightly more likely to get a mafioso than not [and no worse than equal even if all 3 masons live and breathe] than I think that "No Lynch" is not the best vote.

I'll VOTE: ABSTAIN for now -- but one of us should go.

[Proletariat]

After looking up the last mafia game Proletariat was in she did indeed spend most of the time making very few posts until she was killed. However in this mafia she seems to be behaving completely differently. By making a vast number of posts. For now, unless more evidence appears I will be voting...

Vote Proletariat


Not true in the slightest, and Sir Moody has made the same claim.

The last mafia game I was in, I actually was mafia and kage exposed me in the first round, and I was killed quickly. The game before that, I gave Csar a run for his money in spamming the game thread.

My vote stays on Sir Moody, for pointing out a non-existent change in my gaming habits. Have to wonder about Boo now too, being an obvious bandwagoneer.

[discovery1]

Vote: everyone but me.

Umpa lump dopedi do,
they are all out to get you

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The townspeople discussed all day. Accusations were made and unmade. But in the end the town decided that the best course of action would be to lynch no one.

No-lynch 6 (Kommodus,JimBob, AggonyDuck, Ituralde,Sigurd,Husar)
GeneralH 3 (ultrawar, Reenk Roink,Csar)
Proletariat 3 (Sir Moody, Sir Boo, Warluster)
Sir Moody 2 (GeneralH, Proletariat)
Dutch_guy 1 (Al Khalifah)
Reenk Roink 1 (Xiahou)
EveryoneButMe 1 (discovery1)*

Abstain 2 (Masy,Seamus Fermanagh)
Not Voting 7 (Dutch_guy, Don Corleone,Husar, doc_bean, Peasant Phill Ignoramus, Divine Wind)


*I can find no record of this person in the game. Please see me about this.
***

Current status:

Killed (2):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha

Lynched(0):

Alive: (25):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Warluster
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Reenk Roink
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Masy
Csar

pm's please

[Peasant Phill]

damn, I'm to late to vote. Oh well no harm done. It wouldn't have mattered anyway as I couldn't have changed the result.

[Ignoramus]

Is that the first time a town has ever been so stupid as to not lynch anyone? True, the chances of us killing one of the mafia are slim. But now two more villagers are guarenteed to die. Whereas if we had taken the risk and struck lucky, only one villager would die and we could then deduce who the other mafia were.

As it is, I'm annoyed that I've missed the vote again.

Just a side note, the mafia are making a statement killing off Kagemusha first up. Everyone knows of Kage's curse on the mafia, and it could be that the mafia are two veterens who are hoping to prove the curse wrong by winning with Kage dead.

[Sir Moody]

Not true in the slightest, and Sir Moody has made the same claim.

The last mafia game I was in, I actually was mafia and kage exposed me in the first round, and I was killed quickly. The game before that, I gave Csar a run for his money in spamming the game thread.

My vote stays on Sir Moody, for pointing out a non-existent change in my gaming habits. Have to wonder about Boo now too, being an obvious bandwagoneer.

Really? lets see shall we:

Mafia V
User Name Posts Sasaki Kojiro (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5584) 175 Csar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=12337) 120 Reenk Roink (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=14071) 76 Seamus Fermanagh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=13105) 66 GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=16104) 65 Kommodus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=4037) 38 Husar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=3510) 36 Craterus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=11493) 30 Kagemusha (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=11472) 29 Crazed Rabbit (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=2471) 28 doc_bean (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=8399) 27 Xiahou (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=6687) 24 Dutch_guy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=10000) 22 Sigurd Fafnesbane (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5461) 19 Banquo's Ghost (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=15019) 19 AggonyDuck (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=1808) 17 Proletariat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=9551) 16 discovery1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=42) 15 Don Corleone (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=2549) 15 Ignoramus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=10336) 14 Silver Rusher (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=7214) 13 Pannonian (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=11905) 12 theRTWGuru (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=18846) 11 God's Grace (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=14590) 8 Masy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=15435) 8 Destroyer of Hope (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=13974) 7 Zalmoxis (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=10267) 7 Divine Wind (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=3008) 6 Drisos (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=9582) 4 Hepcat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=17405) 3 Sir Moody (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5518) 3 Evil_Maniac From Mars (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=10652) 2 Myrddraal (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=4573) 1 UltraWar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=12175) 1
so thats 16 out of 900+ posts (mine are low as i died in the first freaking round)

then we move onto
Rise of the Mob
User Name Posts Sasaki Kojiro (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5584) 90 Reenk Roink (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=14071) 57 Csar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=12337) 54 Don Corleone (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=2549) 50 Kagemusha (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=11472) 41 Sir Moody (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5518) 38 Seamus Fermanagh (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=13105) 24 Peasant Phill (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=15885) 20 GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=16104) 17 Xiahou (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=6687) 17 Sigurd Fafnesbane (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=5461) 15 Husar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=3510) 13 discovery1 (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=42) 12 Hepcat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=17405) 12 Dutch_guy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=10000) 11 JimBob (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=3878) 8 Proletariat (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=9551) 8 Kommodus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=4037) 7 Masy (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=15435) 6 UltraWar (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=12175) 5 Ignoramus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=10336) 3 Silver Rusher (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=7214) 1 theRTWGuru (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=18846) 1 Warluster (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=17961) 1 Crazed Rabbit (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=2471) 1
out of 500+ posts you score - 8

the trend continues through out all the games you are invovled in - its highly unlike your past games to be throwing accusations around and generally playing like sasaki in the first round... that doesnt meen you are a mafia - it does meen you are playing differently...

[Al Khalifah]

I suspect given the patterns of killings - in that they took out one of our best mafia hunters - and the fact that the Godfather was allowed to choose his mafioso, I believe that at least 2 out of the 3 mafia will be experienced players and that at least one of these will have been a skilled mafioso before.

No lynch last round I don't think helped but perhaps the mafia will show their hand this round.

[Ituralde]

Whereas if we had taken the risk and struck lucky, only one villager would die and we could then deduce who the other mafia were.


Just keep in mind that the reduction from two kills to one is not a valid prove that we have just lynched a Mafia. As stated in the rules the Mafia may choose not to kill. This means that they can just kill one guy after a lynching to convince us that the guy we just lynched was Mafia, maybe even discrediting the lyncheds claims for being a Stonemason or the soothsayer.
So don't read too much into a reduced number of Mafia kills, especially during the final stages of the game.

[Kagemusha]

Well this was fast one for me.Another early death .I hope that the Masons will have some real powers to clear the mafia scum on the face of the earth. I will be remaining in the game even now that im dead since i didnt have any special role so my death wasnt a big blow for the town. Becouse the mafia was handpicked by Disco, i would think we are facing a combination of 1-2 experienced players and then some newbie who will remain under the radar. After reading the first round posts.Im not ready to point out yet finger towards anyone.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I would also remind folks that Disco, in picking his team, is aware of:

1. lurker advantages/disadvantages

2. who are the "lightning rods" of any mafia game

3. the value of communication that cannot be tracked (not nec on this forum)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Just keep in mind that the reduction from two kills to one is not a valid prove that we have just lynched a Mafia. As stated in the rules the Mafia may choose not to kill. This means that they can just kill one guy after a lynching to convince us that the guy we just lynched was Mafia, maybe even discrediting the lyncheds claims for being a Stonemason or the soothsayer.
So don't read too much into a reduced number of Mafia kills, especially during the final stages of the game.

In terms of the remaining number of mafia, you are quite correct. However, any reduction in the number of kills increases the number of lynchings that all mafia have to survive.

[Reenk Roink]

Vote: No Lynch

:wall: :no: :shame:

[doc_bean]

Meh, too late.

[Kommodus]

Gah!

Why is everyone suddenly so sure that not lynching anyone was the wrong decision? Many valid arguments in favor of that decision were posted.

Let me ask you this: when has the town ever successfully lynched a Mafioso in the first round? We almost certainly would've only managed to take out an innocent person. Worst-case, we could've taken out a pro-town role.

Information was gathered, and hopefully this round the masons will be able to give us something useful, since apparently they have that ability. (The first message, if indeed it came from the masons, didn't contain any clues.)

Seamus posted the only valid argument in favor of lynching someone. In fact, I had already calculated his "perfect mafia scenario" and got the same results. I was originally going to argue in favor of lynching someone until I realized how unlikely that perfect scenario would be. (Also I counted the soothsayer among the pro-town roles, while he didn't.)

And BTW, if you don't like the decision but were too late to show up and change it, then here's my suggestion: show up and participate! More discussion does make a townie win more likely.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And BTW, if you don't like the decision but were too late to show up and change it, then here's my suggestion: show up and participate! More discussion does make a townie win more likely.

This is a paramount point -- and remember, fellow townies, we do not have Sasaki around to throw stuff into the game (love him or not, he does get things going).

Kommo:

The thing that bothers me most about the "No Lynch" is that we almost have to do it again in round 2 or round 3, otherwise the 1st round slowed us down without saving enough lives to add another round of discussion onto the end. Not Lynching in a two murder game must be done twice to affect gameplay (though not, of course, discussion).

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sigurd Fafnesbane was sleeping, dreaming of flowers and faeries like all good townspeople should. But at the front door, all was not well.

"ARE YOU SURE THIS IS THE RIGHT HOUSE, FLUFFY?" a man in a siut of armour was saying to his lizard. Fluffy looked at him in in an alarmed way.

"OH, CURSE ME ONLY BEING ALLOWED TO TALK IN CAPITOL LETTERS! CURSE CURSE CURSE!" the man started screaming, waking Sigurd up and causing him to look outside.

"oh gods, not that!" Sigurd thought, seeing the man in the suit of armour adn his lizard.

"any fate is worse than that" he thought and jupmed out the window to his death. Only itwas a short fall, and he only layed on the ground hurt.

The man in the suit of armour walked over to Sigurd.

"FEAR MY WRATH, VARLET" he said and stabbed Sigurd in the stomach with his sword.

"ANOTHER ONE DOWN, FLUFFY." the two walked away.

***

The town awoke to another dead body and another message on the wall:


''Townies, fear not for we are doing our best to rid you of this evil ! Feel free to call these numbers, anytime:
0800 2664 6662368 or, if that line is busy 0800 9275 87837. We are here to help, we must work together !''


Next to this message is another message:


German guard of the German faith
Dream liberator of lebanon
The poles gave him wings
All gave him guilding.
And none use him now

***

Killed (3):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane

Lynched(0):

Alive: (24):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Warluster
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Reenk Roink
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Masy
Csar

***

Let the voting begin!

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'll be travelling cross country tomorrow, don't know when I'll be able to check in, this will probably be a long lynching round.

[Csargo]

Well only one kill. My guess is a mafioso missed his kill or used a special ability to write one of those graffiti messages.

Vote:Husar

[Warluster]

Why do you wonder over such things Csar?

[Csargo]

Why do you wonder over such things Csar?

Well there's two graffiti's one must be a mafioso's.

[Sir Boo]

Ok guys just to give you all some statitistics in the lynching...

There is 23 Lynchable people left----

Therefore there is 3 Mafia Mebers left = 13% Chance of Lynching

Therefore there is 4 Pro-Townine Roles = 17% Chance of Lynching

Therefore there is 16 Townies = 70% Chance of Lynching

(These proballilities have been rounded up/down)

This may seem quite bleak but i do still believe that lynching is the best option in round 2, now that we have some leads to go on...

[Csargo]

Ok guys just to give you all some statitistics in the lynching...

There is 23 Lynchable people left----

Therefore there is 3 Mafia Mebers left = 13% Chance of Lynching

Therefore there is 4 Pro-Townine Roles = 17% Chance of Lynching

Therefore there is 16 Townies = 70% Chance of Lynching

(These proballilities have been rounded up/down)

This may seem quite bleak but i do still believe that lynching is the best option in round 2, now that we have some leads to go on...

Lynch Husar.

[Peasant Phill]

German guard of the German faith
Dream liberator of lebanon
The poles gave him wings
All gave him guilding.
And none use him now

two messages of wich only one is in the same style of the last. And it points without a doubt a finger towards Husar.
Are we entirely sure that a pro-towny left this message?

Hear me out
There are 3 mafiosi that can kill 2 townies each night. So one is sitting idly while two others do the killing. Isn't it possible that lazy number 3 twice sprayed the grafitti and that the 1 kill/2 grafitti last night was a diversion so we would think that the rhyme was authentic?
You have to admit that if the maffia tried to fool us with the that other message, it did a crappy job. To crappy maybe.

So for now:
Vote: Abstain
Let's see what you all think.

[Sir Moody]

hmm i doubt both messages come from the mafia it is more likely one is from the masons and the Mafia either failed to get both targets in on time or chose to kill one... for some reason

I find their choice of targets interesting so far - 2 Veterans 1 Newbie

lets think about this logically the mafia was chosen and so Discovery would be looking for the ultimate combination to produce victory

so what is the ultimate combination?

Well first id pick someone who is a known mafia hunter with a solid reputation of being right more than wrong - someone who could lead the villagers around by their nose for a while

Under this list we get:
Kommodus
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Seamus Fermanagh
GeneralHankerchief

two of these are already dead but one or more could be mafia

Next you want someone who walks the thin line between being lynched and being killed - Sasaki does this but hes hosting. They can lead conversations in particular ways to save mafia members by using their reputations as trouble stirrers and loud mouths

this gives us:
Reenk Roink
GeneralHankerchief
Kommodus

lastly you may want someone who can slip under the radar - someone who is either new or doesnt draw much attention to themselves - this is the wild card as it could be anyone

for now we should pay close attention to how kommodus, Seamus, GH and Reenk vote/post im sure at least one of them will have been chosen


for now until we get more
Vote: Abstain

oh and no-lynch is a bad choice as it lets people hide rather than voting for real lets try to avoid doing it again...

[Husar]

Oh the funny.:2thumbsup:

I know that 0800 is used for free numbers in Germany but Wikipedia says it's used in many countries.
So much about the supposed mason message

Now to the mafia message, which basically means that I will get killed next round, I think.:sweatdrop:

Just think about it, the last one had to do with Loki which tells me norse mythology and now Sigurd got killed. Now there is a suspected link towards me in the graffity which may simply be an announcement that I am next.

Let's try to get some clues from the lines:
1. well, relates to where I am from
2. my signature
3. my nickname(this may give a few clues since polish winged hussars are not known by everyone)
4. I have no idea
5. this might be a hint that I am next

Since disco is a member of the chat, he could know all that and the message may be written by him.

Then there is Csar, who is quite eager to kill me because I am mentioned which is really bright considering that the mafia indicates they want to kill me next round anyway, but maybe he wants to create an alibi this way?
As in: "If I wanted to kill him next round anyway, why should I have started a bandwagon on him?"

Maybe there is also some numerical code in the mason message(the telephone numbers)? Or the masone message and mafia message are not like I think and the masons point at me for which reason? Ok, that doesn't make sense to me since it indicates that nothing is going to help me anymore, the masons could have put up a more much clear message had they found me guilty I think.(which I am not btw)

That's gotta suffice for now.:smash:

[AggonyDuck]

"The other letter is of Loki
Do no heed its harmful words.
Knowledge we will collect
And distribute to the denizen's of the Gameroom"

This was the first grafitti. The Loki reference doesn't really point towards Sigurd, but means that the other letter is from Loki, the trickster and deceiver. The question is whether it came from the Masons or the Mafia.


German guard of the German faith
Dream liberator of lebanon
The poles gave him wings
All gave him guilding.
And none use him now

This one clearly points out to Husar, but as it is it doesn't really why it points out Husar. Does it mean that he is investigated?

The numbered message coming from the masons makes absolutely no sense, but at the same time can we trust the other message? What if the Mafia are responsible for both messages?

I think our best option is to ignore these graffitis, simply because we can't really know of their validity at the moment. We can track down the mafia without the confusion and potential guidance provided by these messages.

Now to the voting, I'm going with a gut based vote here. My gut is saying that Seamus and a certain other not to be named yet are mafia members.

Vote: Seamus Fermanagh

[Csargo]

Oh the funny.:2thumbsup:

I know that 0800 is used for free numbers in Germany but Wikipedia says it's used in many countries.
So much about the supposed mason message

Now to the mafia message, which basically means that I will get killed next round, I think.:sweatdrop:

Just think about it, the last one had to do with Loki which tells me norse mythology and now Sigurd got killed. Now there is a suspected link towards me in the graffity which may simply be an announcement that I am next.

Let's try to get some clues from the lines:
1. well, relates to where I am from
2. my signature
3. my nickname(this may give a few clues since polish winged hussars are not known by everyone)
4. All gave him a superficial coating or appearance, as opposed to what is solid and genuine.
5. this might be a hint that I am next

Since disco is a member of the chat, he could know all that and the message may be written by him.

Then there is Csar, who is quite eager to kill me because I am mentioned which is really bright considering that the mafia indicates they want to kill me next round anyway, but maybe he wants to create an alibi this way?
As in: "If I wanted to kill him next round anyway, why should I have started a bandwagon on him?"

Maybe there is also some numerical code in the mason message(the telephone numbers)? Or the masone message and mafia message are not like I think and the masons point at me for which reason? Ok, that doesn't make sense to me since it indicates that nothing is going to help me anymore, the masons could have put up a more much clear message had they found me guilty I think.(which I am not btw)

That's gotta suffice for now.:smash:

Let me fill that fourth one in for you Husar.

[doc_bean]

That the message points to Husar is so...obvious. I don't know what to think about that.


vote:Csar

Just a hunch, I might change my mind if other people make good points, an dif I read it all in time.

[Caius]

A little correction,

Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane

is

Kagemusha
Caius Flaminius

[Csargo]

That the message points to Husar is so...obvious. I don't know what to think about that.


vote:Csar

Just a hunch, I might change my mind if other people make good points, an dif I read it all in time.

There's no helping you people.

[Caius]

Lynch Husar.

and the message


German guard of the German faith
Dream liberator of lebanon
The poles gave him wings
All gave him guilding.
And none use him now

I remember that chat conversation,when we were talking about special teams.

I remember someone was here.Husar, if your remember... if you remember....

And the voice form the Heaven stoped...

[Csargo]

Lynch Husar.

and the message


German guard of the German faith
Dream liberator of lebanon
The poles gave him wings
All gave him guilding.
And none use him now

I remember that chat conversation,when we were talking about special teams.

I remember someone was here.Husar, if your remember... if you remember....

And the voice form the Heaven stoped...

I don't understand you CF.

[Caius]

I don't understand you CF.
The message wasnt for you.

[Sir Boo]

Well as stated above we really cannot judge whether the message is True or False... However at the moment we have little to go on apart from the Mafia will most probably be made up of 2 Vets and 1 Random Newbie. In regard to the Vets we do have a few leads to go on however in response to the one newbie he will be keeping under the radar yet he will be posting some impartial messages as to avoid the wrath of god.

Yet i still believe we have little to go on so until we discover anything...

Vote: Abstain

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Has anyone tried to decode the phone numbers or -- if you're in Europe -- call them?

These messages will undoubtedly hold clues -- hence the name of the game -- but will they lead or confuse.....

I'll hold my vote for now. Husar and Csar are drawing most of the early shots, but I'mnot sure if they are drawing them "fairly."

[Husar]

Let me fill that fourth one in for you Husar.


Lynch Husar.

and the message


German guard of the German faith
Dream liberator of lebanon
The poles gave him wings
All gave him guilding.
And none use him now

I remember that chat conversation,when we were talking about special teams.

I remember someone was here.Husar, if your remember... if you remember....

And the voice form the Heaven stoped...


I don't understand you CF.


The message wasnt for you.

I don't understand both of you, not even what Csar filled in...:shrug:
I'm with Seamus even though I am thinking similar to AggonyDuck, but I'm not going to vote yet.

[Csargo]

I don't understand both of you, not even what Csar filled in...:shrug:
I'm with Seamus even though I am thinking similar to AggonyDuck, but I'm not going to vote yet.

Of course.

[Sir Boo]

I have to say how interesting it is that many members who were very active in the 1st day phase have bairly made a post in the 2nd day phase...

For example:

Proletariat
Information - Her recent extroidanary high activity compared to her activity in the last mafia game was pointed out by Sir Moody. Recently she has not made a post since the day phase began.
Voted For - Sir Moody

General Hankerchief
Information - He was voted for by Ultra however did not vote in relation. On the grounds that the kill story sounded like their work eg spelling's.
Voted For - Sir Moody

However despite this information i still stand by my vote for now...

[GeneralHankerchief]

I have to say how interesting it is that many members who were very active in the 1st day phase have bairly made a post in the 2nd day phase...

For example:

Proletariat
Information - Her recent extroidanary high activity compared to her activity in the last mafia game was pointed out by Sir Moody. Recently she has not made a post since the day phase began.
Voted For - Sir Moody

General Hankerchief
Information - He was voted for by Ultra however did not vote in relation. On the grounds that the kill story sounded like their work eg spelling's.
Voted For - Sir Moody

However despite this information i still stand by my vote for now...

Real life, my friend.

Interesting new developments. Give me some time to go over them, I'll post my thoughts soon.

[UltraWar]

Vote:Csar

His actions are highly suspicious yet if my guess is wrong, so much for me relying on my diplomatic contacts, above and below ground

[AggonyDuck]

Has anyone tried to decode the phone numbers or -- if you're in Europe -- call them?

These messages will undoubtedly hold clues -- hence the name of the game -- but will they lead or confuse.....

I'll hold my vote for now. Husar and Csar are drawing most of the early shots, but I'mnot sure if they are drawing them "fairly."

To be honest, if they're clues left by the masons, well then they're doing a rather poor job at giving them. So Masons, if you indeed are responsible for one of those graffitis, how about actually trying to make them helpful for us?

[Sir Boo]

Real life, my friend.

Interesting new developments. Give me some time to go over them, I'll post my thoughts soon.

To be honest i was more concerned over the fact that Prole after being acused by Sir Moody for out of the ordinary posting, now seams to be "lying low"....

You on the other hand are obvously not sorry for the acusation...

[Xiahou]

While our last round accomplished little or nothing along the lines of narrowing suspicions, it did at least have the effect of buying us another round thanks in large part to the mafia who (by design or by incompetence) only made 1 kill last night.

As to who I'm suspicious of... I still have to think Reenk. Last night showed us another episode of 'the Knight and Fluffy' show, which smacks of something his mind would create. Further, we've heard nary a word or even a pantomime from him since then that I can see. Further, I believe that Reenk would make an appealing choice for an underling by discovery1.

So, until there's a better case made:
Vote: Reenk

[Reenk Roink]

While our last round accomplished little or nothing along the lines of narrowing suspicions, it did at least have the effect of buying us another round thanks in large part to the mafia who (by design or by incompetence) only made 1 kill last night.

As to who I'm suspicious of... I still have to think Reenk. Last night showed us another episode of 'the Knight and Fluffy' show, which smacks of something his mind would create. Further, we've heard nary a word or even a pantomime from him since then that I can see. Further, I believe that Reenk would make an appealing choice for an underling by discovery1.

So, until there's a better case made:
Vote: Reenk

:rolleyes:

1010101001001001010010010101000100100101010101010100100001010100101010010010010111001001010101010011

Vote: Xiahou

[GeneralHankerchief]

Okay, my thoughts right now:

I don't know which message is which. If the Husar message is by the mafia, it means the Masons clearly goofed by not sending anything in the first round. If it's by the Masons, then the Mafia are idiots for making such a non-lookalike message. Also, we have no clue whether two messages = one kill. Best conclusion: Just ignore it for now.

Csar does seem suspicious for going after Husar with a vengeance, but my vote will not go to him (for now).


To be honest i was more concerned over the fact that Prole after being acused by Sir Moody for out of the ordinary posting, now seams to be "lying low"....

You on the other hand are obvously not sorry for the acusation...

Darn right. Somebody needs to play the Sasaki role. I'm keeping my eye on Sir Moody.

Anyway, Reenk Roink's gameplay has regressed something of late. He is only voting based on retaliation and in fact, encouraging others to do so! People, if we keep doing this then the mafia win hands-down. In addition, he is contributing little by never offering any clear opinions, instead speaking in tongues (and binary).

Vote: Reenk Roink

Less a "I think he's mafia" vote than a "We need to set an example" vote.

[Warluster]

Has anyone decoded the first message? or rang the number?

I am going on a gut feeling but I say

Vote:Abstain

[Al Khalifah]

That's a very strange phone number given in the grafitti. The 0800 part tells us nothing, because that is used almost universally across Europe and possibly worldwide. The number is very long however which is not usual. This might provide a clue as to the nationality of the artist, since it is not a common format. Or it might just be a totally made up number / the mafia playing with our minds.

I'm still not sure, but I do subscribe to the theory that at least one experienced mafia player would have been chosen by Disco.

I'm not sure where to put blame yet, but this post did interest me:

Well only one kill. My guess is a mafioso missed his kill or used a special ability to write one of those graffiti messages.
At what point was it mentioned that a mafia member has to miss a kill in order to write a graffiti message? :book:

Vote: Csar

[Masy]

Has anyone decoded the first message?

Well, I have tried to crack these strange "graffiti" in the naive hope that they might point to the mafia. The mafia are obviously going to deploy strange graffiti to put us off track, but Masons, I assume that one of these messages is from you, and in which case, I must say you are making it all rather confusing. The first code mentions Loki, so I assume either the masons are trying to get us to lynch a norse player (who they perhaps believe is a mafia member), or, more likely, the mafia want to make us suspicious of random players and get us to kill them off (thus avoiding us killing the mafioso's, obviously) I also tried to decode the numbers (and I am no Robert Langdon, so bear with me) in the phone address:

Replacing the numbers with their respective position in the alphabet (A equals 1 etc) I got the intriguing message of 0h00 bffd fffbcfh and 0h00 ib ge hghch (I didn't know what to do with the zero's). Having discovered these gems of information, I am now turning my attention back to analysis of players...

For now, Vote: Reenk Roink because his behaviour is not conducive to a town strategy:




10101010010010010100100101010001001001010101010101 00100001010100101010010010010111001001010101010011

Vote: Xiahou

Random Binary code and retaliation voting is the most suspicious thing I have seen so far, so my vote goes for him.

[Sir Boo]

I agree with the statements made above. How is Reenk going to help benefit the townies if he continues his no-speach tactics. However if he does decide to stop this i will again vote to Abstain but until then my vote goes to Reenk

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Reenk

[Reenk Roink]

Anyway, Reenk Roink's gameplay has regressed something of late. He is only voting based on retaliation and in fact, encouraging others to do so! People, if we keep doing this then the mafia win hands-down. In addition, he is contributing little by never offering any clear opinions, instead speaking in tongues (and binary).

Vote: Reenk Roink

Less a "I think he's mafia" vote than a "We need to set an example" vote.


thinly . (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1313110&postcount=22)


veiled . (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1378925&postcount=29)


retaliation . (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1377749&postcount=90)


vote . (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1377772&postcount=95)

:yes:

[Proletariat]

Proletariat
Information - Her recent extroidanary high activity compared to her activity in the last mafia game was pointed out by Sir Moody. Recently she has not made a post since the day phase began.
Voted For - Sir Moody


Not true, once again. My last mafia game I suicided because of a Christmas vacation, the game before that I actually was mafia, and was defending myself from round one when Kage investigated me right off the bat.

The few games before that I had already changed to a more aggressive first round stance, and it was noted by a few players in those games too. So this isn't me acting out of the ordinary.

Also, it's not very fair to say someone was acting one way for for 24 hours, then the next 24 TOTALLY changed their posting frequency. Like GH stated, real life. It's not often I nor anyone else has time to keep a consistent level of posts per day.

Vote: Reenk for speaking in emoticons.

Disco has been repeatedly claiming in the chatroom that the mafiaso he's chosen are me, Husar, and Csar. Since I know for certain that one of those people (moi) is innocent, I'm inclined to believe the graffiti blatantly screaming Husar's name is a crock and should be ignored, at least for right now.

[Husar]

At what point was it mentioned that a mafia member has to miss a kill in order to write a graffiti message? :book:

Vote: Csar
I was curious about that as well, Csar sounds like he has a lot of insight on these matters.

Vote: Csar

[Caius]

Edit:Husar, did you understand the message?

[AggonyDuck]

The first code mentions Loki, so I assume either the masons are trying to get us to lynch a norse player (who they perhaps believe is a mafia member), or, more likely, the mafia want to make us suspicious of random players and get us to kill them off (thus avoiding us killing the mafioso's, obviously)

The Loki reference really doesn't point out to any player, but it refers to the other letter coming from Loki, as in the trickster or the deceiver. Meaning that we shouldn't trust the other letter. But the problem with these graffitis is that we have no way to know the validity of them and who put them up. For all we know the Mafia could be doing both of the messages, which to me looking at the confusing mess these messages currently are, is entirely possible. Thus I believe until someone manages to ensure us of the validity of the messages; we're better off ignoring them all together.

[Proletariat]

Please can you tell the rest of the story?

Not sure what you'd like me to elaborate.

Disco keeps saying in the chat, over and over, that he chose me, Csar and Husar as his mafioso. I'm certain about one of us not being Mafia (me, of course.) So now I, being completely innocent, have a common ground with Csar and Husar. Maybe they're innocent too, and the graffiti screaming Husar's name, is just some mafia wind up to derail us, even tho, so far, no one's seemed to put much value in it (wisely so, imho.)

[Caius]

Thanks prole, i am trying to know who is mafia.
I am dead,and i want to find the mafisos.Thats all.

[Sigurd]

I think you guys should vote for Csar...

Vote:Csar

[JimBob]

For now I'm going to Vote: Reenk cause the smilies just make things confused for the town.

[Reenk Roink]

Anyway, Reenk Roink's gameplay has regressed something of late.

:huh:


He is only voting based on retaliation and in fact, encouraging others to do so!

:no:


In addition, he is contributing little by never offering any clear opinions, instead speaking in tongues (and binary).


Random Binary code and retaliation voting is the most suspicious thing I have seen so far, so my vote goes for him.


How is Reenk going to help benefit the townies if he continues his no-speach tactics.


Vote: Reenk for speaking in emoticons.


For now I'm going to Vote: Reenk cause the smilies just make things confused for the town.

:rolleyes: :gossip:

:charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :ahh: :surrender:

~:handball:


These are honestly the stupidest reasons to vote for somebody ever...

Unvote: Xiahou
Vote: Csar

[Kommodus]

Hm. Ok, well I'd hoped for a bit more/clearer information from the masons. As it is, all we've been given are a couple of cryptic phone numbers and a rather obvious poem of dubious origin.

Csar is kinda suspicious, mainly because of how quick he was to draw conclusions from that graffiti message. Even assuming it's from the masons (doubtful at best), it doesn't make clear whether Husar is being accused or cleared. :dizzy2: I think several people have made good points in favor of not basing too much on the graffiti.

Still, I doubt he'd be that quick to jump on his team's own false clue. Also, my mathematical analysis indicates Csar is probably innocent - thought two rounds of data isn't much; I'll need at least one more before I can say anything with much confidence. Though I am starting to develop a list of suspects...

Also, I recommend that we ignore discovery1's list of whom he chose (for now, at least). Whether any of its members are mafia or not, it's surely only meant to confuse.

Vote: Abstain

I don't have enough yet to make a proper accusation. With the mafia only killing one person this round, we should still be in good shape if we get one of 'em by the third round. :smash:

[Don Corleone]

Uhm, Reenk, while you might find your smiley-posting cute, clever and amusing, the rest of us find it rather irritating. You're not contributing to the discussion, you're not helping the town, and you admitted as much in answering my questions that it's all by personal choice. I should vote for you for being an annoying git, but I'm not going to.

I'm not convinced that there isn't something odd but strangely beneficial for the town to your gameplay, and I wonder if your role requires that you deny being assigned the role. Even you should be able to figure out by now that the lynch mob is continue eyeing you as long as you keep with the :yes: :no: :idea2: :dizzy2: :2thumbsup: Keep it up, and your next smiley will be :skull:

BUT, Csar clamoring to lynch Husar seems much, much more suspicious. It's way too obvious. The masons and the mafia are probably some of our more experienced players. They wouldn't be that obvious. I don't know what the German references are about, but Csar seemed too eager to lynch Husar with them.

Vote: Csar

Sorry, Sasaki missed my vote last round.

[JimBob]

These are honestly the stupidest reasons to vote for somebody ever...
Why? One of three things is happening.
1)You chose to do this for your own reasons and are innocent. That means you are being unhelpful and hurting the town, best to lose you.
2) You are Mafia and are using the fact that we know there are secret roles. You then pretend to have a role to protect yourself.
3) You have a role. How useful can it be if we can't understand you?

[Reenk Roink]

Why? One of three things is happening.
1)You chose to do this for your own reasons and are innocent. That means you are being unhelpful and hurting the town, best to lose you.
2) You are Mafia and are using the fact that we know there are secret roles. You then pretend to have a role to protect yourself.
3) You have a role. How useful can it be if we can't understand you?

~:snowman:


I will relay your message to the guy playing handball as quick as possible. Please wait 48-72 hours for response.

:knight:





Narrator Knight's quickie:

:beatnik: - underage pot smoker at midnight in bedroom

:curtain: - mommy tucking in good night

:inquisitive: :shocked2: :shocked3: :shout: - string of emotions of she

:surprised: sees mom :brood: - oh ****

:bow: el fin :sombrero:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Normally, I'd vote for Csar at this point. He was quick off the mark to name Husar and nobody had mulled over the poesy very much by then. However, his posting style/relatively quick votes ARE normal for him in games where he was not a mafioso.

Reenk is annoying, but that is also part of his charm. He views life at a slighly cockeyed angle. Lynching someone cause they annoy you is a bit harsh. Also, his posts are serving to generate discussion and votes -- which is usually a positive for the town.

Prole' is posting intermittently, but that's typical of her. She'll be a quiet reader for most of a round, vote, post a few times as discussion of her vote brings her into the mix, and then fade a bit. Again, fairly consistent with her style of play -- she likes to mull things over a bit before taking a stab.

All possibilities, but not enough compelling data to vote.

I'll Vote: Reenk Roink as a lesson in communicative courtesy, but my vote will readily change for better evidence/theory on someone.

Who is lurking so far, I wonder?

[Csargo]

:huh:



:no:











:rolleyes: :gossip:

:charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :charge: :ahh: :surrender:

~:handball:



Unvote: Xiahou
Vote: Csar

Don't worry Reenk you won't get a retaliation vote from me I don't know why your voting for me and your damn smilie's don't help the town.



At what point was it mentioned that a mafia member has to miss a kill in order to write a graffiti message?

Vote: Csar

My guess is that they can either kill someone or write a graffiti message and then not be able to kill anyone for that round.



I was curious about that as well, Csar sounds like he has a lot of insight on these matters.

Vote: Csar

Answered that it's a guess it could be wrong it might not.


I think you guys should vote for Csar...

Vote:Csar

And you I thought you were smarter than that. You know what happens when you don't even give a reason for your vote. So why aren't you?

[discovery1]

Who is lurking so far, I wonder?

I've been lurking more or less. Course, I don't get much time off from running my criminal empire and planning your deaths. But don't worry, I only do it out of love and affection. :sweetheart:

[Csargo]

Alright let's look at this. Here's the first kills.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1377388&postcount=78

Two people killed and only one graffiti.

Next kill

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1379421&postcount=143

One kill and two graffiti's.

Now what I get from this is that the mafia can choose to kill two people per round or kill one person and put a graffiti message up on the wall along with the mason's message.

Since there was two kills the first night I assumed that the first message is from the mason's.

First graffiti


The other letter is of Loki
Do no heed its harmful words.
Knowledge we will collect
And distribute to the denizen's of the Gameroom

Second two graffiti's



''Townies, fear not for we are doing our best to rid you of this evil ! Feel free to call these numbers, anytime:
0800 2664 6662368 or, if that line is busy 0800 9275 87837. We are here to help, we must work together !''


German guard of the German faith
Dream liberator of lebanon
The poles gave him wings
All gave him guilding.
And none use him now

Which one's look more alike? It's true I could be wrong about the Husar thing and I'm not saying I'm right. But really what else do we have to go on?

[Csargo]

That's a very strange phone number given in the grafitti. The 0800 part tells us nothing, because that is used almost universally across Europe and possibly worldwide. The number is very long however which is not usual. This might provide a clue as to the nationality of the artist, since it is not a common format. Or it might just be a totally made up number / the mafia playing with our minds.

I'm still not sure, but I do subscribe to the theory that at least one experienced mafia player would have been chosen by Disco.

I'm not sure where to put blame yet, but this post did interest me:

At what point was it mentioned that a mafia member has to miss a kill in order to write a graffiti message? :book:

Vote: Csar

I just noticed the reason you voted for me. So that's why eh? I find that funny because I'm not the only one who has mentioned that idea. Surely you could come up with something better than that?:laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Voting closed.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Reenk 7 (Xiahou,GH,Masy,Sir Boo,prole,Seamus,Jimbob)
Csar 6 (doc_bean,ultrawar,Al Khalifah,Husar,Reenk,Don Corleone)
Seamus 1 (AggonyDuck)
husar 1 (csar)

abstain (phill,sir moody,Warluster,Kommodus)

Reenk Roink has been lynched.

***

Killed (3):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane

Lynched(1):
Reenk Roink

Alive: (23):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Warluster
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Masy
Csar

pm's please

[Csargo]

Csar 7 (doc_bean,ultrawar,Al Khalifah,Husar,Sigurd,Reenk,Don Corleone)
Reenk 6 (Xiahou,GH,Masy,Sir Boo,prole,Seamus)
Seamus 1 (AggonyDuck)
husar 1 (csar)

abstain (phill,sir moody,Warluster,Kommodus)

Csar has been lynched.

***

Killed (3):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane

Lynched(1):
Csar

Alive: (23):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Warluster
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Reenk Roink
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Masy

pm's please

Sigurd's vote doesn't count he's dead Sasaki.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sigurd!! https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1058/emotarghbr6.gif

Voting re-opened.

Csar and Reenk tied at 6. Next vote decides it.

Wait I think I may have missed a vote for Reenk.

^^yup

Reenk at 7 is lynched.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ok, new rule: If you vote for someone while dead...I'll mod-kill you! :furious3:

I swear. Also, if you don't bold your vote I may miss it, and if the mistake isn't caught quickly I may just throw your vote out.

[Csargo]

Such anger Sasaki is not needed.

[Ignoramus]

Because Csar discovered the mistake; he has delayed our game. Therefore, I'm voting Csar.

[Peasant Phill]

F**k, mist the deadline again. If any of you think I'm doing this deliberately, your wrong. FYI I would've voted for Csar.

[Sigurd]

It as AggonyDuck says: The Loki reference is only telling us that the other graffiti is more or less false and we should disregard it. The problem is there was no other graffiti that round.
We ask ourselves, which of the two role groups made this? I strongly believe that the Loki graffiti was made by the Mafia.
Since the Husar graffiti was made in a like manner I am inclined to think it too was mafia made.
As I see it… there are 3 reasons why the mafia would put Husar in graffiti.

They hope we will mistake their message for a mason message, declaring Husar innocent and hence becoming a foreboding on their next kill.
They hope we will mistake their message for a mason message, declaring Husar guilty and lynch him.
They think we might see through their scheme and believe it a mafia message. They hope we believe it a frame attempt on Husar and let him live, all though he is in fact a member of the mafia. The last one is a dangerous move and I for one would not have tried a stunt like that.
A piece of the puzzle that I can’t fit in is.. Why where there only one kill last round?
We did not lynch anyone and yet the mafia posted graffiti in both rounds and chose to kill only one player. Was one player saved, but we got no information about this?

Knowing Sasaki’s style of game hosting, he will not tell us when an un-killable role is targeted. He will however tell us if a killable player was saved.
Is there a role in this game which is immune to night killing? I wonder. We will see.

For now Csar is the most suspicious player, particularly because of my untimely death. That is all I can say.

[Sigurd]

Sigurd!! https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1058/emotarghbr6.gif


Just seeing if ya are awake.. apparently not :laugh4:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

[

Knowing Sasaki’s style of game hosting, he will not tell us when an un-killable role is targeted. He will however tell us if a killable player was saved.


I decided to make the town less omniscient this game. They only find out who was killed.

[Sir Moody]

aha well this suggests that we have at least one doctor type and someone was saved

given the first kills i would guess it was someone new (thus keeping the 1 verteran 1 new in the kills)

this also meens we will never be able to tell if we have killed a mafia... as it could just be the doc saving someone...

[Masy]

Sorry Sasaki it's probably written down somewhere, but what happened to lynch descriptions? You know, like dunking the lynchee in a vat of acid? I am not complaining (:yes: ), but is this a deliberate omission?

[Husar]

Tell me disco, will I die now?:inquisitive:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Sorry Sasaki it's probably written down somewhere, but what happened to lynch descriptions? You know, like dunking the lynchee in a vat of acid? I am not complaining (:yes: ), but is this a deliberate omission?

I drove 12 hours yesterday, put down the lynch, and went to bed. Didn't feel like writing a description. :shame:

[discovery1]

Sigurd!! https://img178.imageshack.us/img178/1058/emotarghbr6.gif



Hahaha.

PIE!!!!

[Masy]

I drove 12 hours yesterday, put down the lynch, and went to bed. Didn't feel like writing a description.

In that case, all is forgiven :beam:

[Csargo]

Tell me disco, will I die now?:inquisitive:

You already know the answer to that.

[Caius]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!%NaN.

Thats the Reenk Roink message.He tried to say nothing

[Caius]

You already know the answer to that.
Seems you too.

[Csargo]

Seems you too.

Seems me too what?

[discovery1]

So Sasaki when can we expect a new post? 4 hours?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So Sasaki when can we expect a new post? 4 hours?

Yeah.

[Csargo]

Yeah.

WHY SASAKI? And I was so looking forward to dieing.

[Reenk Roink]

~:snowman:


Jimbob, apparently the guy playing handball left town over his disgust at the recent lynching. However, he did leave a note with the guy who got lynched last words. It said "Bring on the Bolshevik Revolution" and had a footnote saying "someone should get the hint".

[Csargo]

~:snowman:

Why are you so intent on killing me?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Warluster was getting a midnight snack of strawberrys and honey. Mmm, it was good.

He opened the pantry door and was about to throw something away when a man in a suit of armour jumped off teh top shelf and landed right on Warluster.

"...ow..." Warluster's bones weere broken.

The man in the suit of armour got up. He wasn't hurt. A lizard hopped off the top shelf and into his hand.

"ARE YOU OKAY, FLUFFY?"

"...ow..."

"SILENCE, VARLET!!!" The man in the suit of armour took out his swrod and stabbed Warluster about 20 times. The lizard looked at him.

"WELL, I GUESS THAT MAKES THINGS SIMPLE FLUFFY," he said. "COME ON THEN, LET'S GO."

Fluffy's eyes flashed purple. The two left together.

***

Masy woke up after a excellent sleep. But something was wrong, very wrong. He wasn't in his bedroom at all. Rather he strapped to a table in a white room. There is an iv in his arm, although a valve leading to it is closed. Also he is weaing a mask that is hooked up to a tank and he notes that one nostril has a tube in it that leads to a metal box and in turn is hooked up to that tank again. Then he notices two figures looming over him. One is rather tall, longish blonde hair, a red beard that needs to be trimmed, slightly scratched glasses, blue eyes, and fairly pale skin. The other's face is concealed by a shadow. The bearded one speaks:
Nicely done Nod. You have succeed in transporting the target with out it waking up. Bounus for you. And you Masy, I have waited a long time for this. The tank you see is full of a mixture of air and powdered osmium or rather osmium tetroxide since powdered Os reacts with oxygen. In a few moments I or my henchman will open the valves leading to your mask and this compressor here. The compressor in turn will basically force you inhail the stuff. the IV is a mixture of the oxide and water. Needless to say the oxide is very toxic. Goodby Masy.

Nod opens the valves while the bearded one mutters some gutteral noises which Masy strangely finds more disturbing then the knowledge that he is about to die. Later Masy's body is dumped outside the courthouse.

***

Upon awakening the townspeople found two dead bodies and two messages on the wall:


Hang the horseman
For death devours steadily
Slay him and slow
The consumption of our community


''We do not write in prose, look to the numbers. We are trying to help, and we might even have succeeded in helping an individual, but keep the discussions going !''


This last message was signed with a hammer.

***

Killed (5):

Caius Flaminius
Kagemusha
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Warluster
Masy

Lynched(1):
Reenk Roink

Alive: (21):

discovery1
GeneralHankerchief
Proletariat
Dutch_Guy
Jimbob
Don Corleone
Seamus Fermanagh
Xiahou
AggonyDuck
Sir Moody
Peasant Phill
Ituralde
Husar
doc_bean
Kommodus
Sir Boo
Ultrawar
Al Khalifah
Ignoramus
Divine Wind
Csar

[Ignoramus]

This just getting more and more confusing.

I'm thinking that the Horseman message is really from the masons, while the number is actually the mafia message.

[Csargo]

This just getting more and more confusing.

I'm thinking that the Horseman message is really from the masons, while the number is actually the mafia message.

It's pointing towards Husar again, but I don't know if the messages on the wall can be trusted.

[discovery1]

VOTE: NOD

Clearly it is this nod fellow, since he is named in the kill by a tall blonde guy with a beard, a red beard in fact.

[Peasant Phill]

This just getting more and more confusing.

I'm thinking that the Horseman message is really from the masons, while the number is actually the mafia message.

And why do you think that? You only confuse more people when you don't give a reason for a statement.

[Ituralde]

Strange things are transpiring here, it seems.

Sorry for missing the last rounds of votes, but I was busy with the M2 PBeM and didn't pay the closest attention to this thread. That'll change from now though.

With two kills and two graffitis this round I guess every theory revolving around the number of kills in correlation with mafia kills has become obsolete. And as Sasaki himself has suggested there may have been a failed murder attempt last night. I'm actually still waiting for further information from Sasaki on the graffiti that was promised to come on day 1, because as of now it's all rather confusing.

My theory is that one of the parties got a headstart in writing their stuff. In my opinion of fair this headstart should have gone to the masons. Also consider that if you were a mason you would make your messages in a distinct manner that is at best hard to forge by anyone else. The first message and the following ones follow a clear pattern and are probably at least a bit hard to forge. But exactly for the reasons that I come up with this thinking, the Mafia could have followed the same train of thoughts.

I'm currently inclined to believe the 'poetic' graffiti to come from the masons. Clearly the other one is more confusing than helpful at the monment, at least to me. I'm surprised to their contents however. They're clearly telling us to lynch Husar and now we have to ask ourselves how they know this. Considering our number of players they must have gotten lucky in the first or second round and discovered a Mafia. While this is not uncommon, it is unlikely.
I'm pondering whether we would gain anything if we had a way of determining who the messages are coming from.

What we have to ask ourselves is not what we gain by lynching Husar, but what we lose. In my opinion not too much. Lynching an innocent can happen and at least the graffiti messages should stop revolving around the same thing.

I was gonna vote for one of the lurkers initially to draw them into the discussion, but as this is the third round anyone not voting now should be WoGed by Sasaki. So I'm gonna wait for that before casting accusations around. For the same reason I'm not gonna go with Husar yet, as the town will probably loose members this round due to the WoG and I'm not fully convinced that he's guilty.

Instead I'll go with:
Vote: No Lynch

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I'm actually still waiting for further information from Sasaki on the graffiti that was promised to come on day 1, because as of now it's all rather confusing.


Ah, the information promised is entirely contained in the fact that there are graffiti messages left on the wall by the mafia and the masons.

[Ignoramus]

I'm going to give my vote to Csar.

Right now my main suspects are Csar, Husar, and Caius Flaminius.

If you back further on this page, Husar ask disco if he's going to get targeted by the mafia this turn. Csar then responds with, "You already know the answer to that." Caius then says, "Seems you too."

I think that Husar and Caius Flaminius are eith both mafia or both masons. Likewise, Csar seems to be either a mason or a mafioso. As Csar seems to be the more suspicious at this point, he gets my vote.

[Csargo]

I'm going to give my vote to Csar.

Right now my main suspects are Csar, Husar, and Caius Flaminius.

If you back further on this page, Husar ask disco if he's going to get targeted by the mafia this turn. Csar then responds with, "You already know the answer to that." Caius then says, "Seems you too."

I think that Husar and Caius Flaminius are eith both mafia or both masons. Likewise, Csar seems to be either a mason or a mafioso. As Csar seems to be the more suspicious at this point, he gets my vote.

Hey genius Caius is dead. Well that shows how much you are paying attention, no?

Also you might wanna bold that. ;) Just trying to help.

[Ituralde]

Ah, the information promised is entirely contained in the fact that there are graffiti messages left on the wall by the mafia and the masons.

That's exactly what I feared. :beam:

[Husar]

Hey genius Caius is dead. Well that shows how much you are paying attention, no?
His nickname is "Ignoramus", what did you expect?~;)

And thank you very much disco.
Can anyone explain to me why the masons would want me dead?
Can't really be their investigation unless Sasaki lied to them.
Which leads me to believe that the weird messages are from the mafia while the one signed with a hammer was from the masons(you know, masons, hammers, craftsmen etc).:inquisitive:

[Ituralde]

Which leads me to believe that the weird messages are from the mafia while the one signed with a hammer was from the masons(you know, masons, hammers, craftsmen etc).

If it is, they're really doing a hell of job to not get any information to us. Not that I'm saying the others are genuine mason work, but from the two they make more sense. (If you're not Husar that is) :juggle2:

[Sigurd]

His nickname is "Ignoramus", what did you expect?~;)

And thank you very much disco.
Can anyone explain to me why the masons would want me dead?
Can't really be their investigation unless Sasaki lied to them.
Which leads me to believe that the weird messages are from the mafia while the one signed with a hammer was from the masons(you know, masons, hammers, craftsmen etc).:inquisitive:

I guess the mafia deciphered the mason message. The evidence of this is the kill of Warluster this round. This means the other person in the number message is at risk.

The numbers is a rather easy encryption and most likely tells us who the masons has investigated and found innocent. There is no mention of detectives in this game and I therefore conclude that investigation is one of their powers.

The Loki and both the Husar messages are Mafia Graffiti.
The number message in round two and the reference to it this round is the mason graffiti.
0800 9275 87837 spells Warluster and he was killed.
The first number spells another player, but I am not going to reveal his name in case the mafia only got lucky with their choice (they killed Masy instead of this player).

I’ll have to say I am not sure how the masons are helping with revealing the names of innocents? It will only get them killed… that is not helpful at all.

So Husar, why does the mafia want you lynched? Should the living players accommodate their wish?

[Sigurd]

I was gonna vote for one of the lurkers initially to draw them into the discussion, but as this is the third round anyone not voting now should be WoGed by Sasaki. So I'm gonna wait for that before casting accusations around.
Only a mafioso is served with people being removed by the narrator. This puts you in a bad light Ituralde...
Why not going after those lurkers to ensure that the mafia needs more rounds to win this game?

Heck I'll do it for you:
Vote: Dutch_guy for lurking and naming me to be killed early - MAFIA I tell you!!!
Vote: Ignoramus for not voting in any rounds - naming a dead guy mafia -> obviously a lurker
Vote: Divine Wind for joining and not participating - two missed votes - Kamikaze?
Vote: Ituralde for not voting anyone in this game - no lynch, missed voting, no lynch - MAFIA I tell you!!!
Vote: Kommodus for not using his methods and not voting for anyone - no lynch, abstain - MAFIA I tell you!!!

There ya go :whip:

[Peasant Phill]

What's the problem with revealing innocents? Sure those people are more likely to be killed than others but at least we have two people less who could be lynching innocently every turn. Besides when the maffia kills innocents, they can't be killing pro-town roles which helps the town more in the end.

It's your call to reveal the system, but I would know what to do.

[Ituralde]

Only a mafioso is served with people being removed by the narrator. This puts you in a bad light Ituralde...
Why not going after those lurkers to ensure that the mafia needs more rounds to win this game?

You obviously misunderstood me there. Why should I go into the list of lurkers and accuse someone who then doesn't respond and gets WoGed by the end of the round. So I'm waiting for the inevitable WoG before starting to accuse people. In order to minimize our losses through the ocurring WoG I opted for No Lynch.

Besides that I'm completely out of suspects.

[Sigurd]

Besides when the maffia kills innocents, they can't be killing pro-town roles which helps the town more in the end.

This is true... but they might have investigated players with pro-town roles unintentionally. They come up as innocents as well do they not? What if Warluster had a pro-town role?

There is one 'aber' in this game and that is the choosing of mafiosi.
Discovery1 as Godfather chose his Mafiosi after the roles were distributed, and the likelyhood that players with a pro-town role also is a mafioso demands to be looked in to.

Heck one, two or all the Masons might have been recruited by Disco.
Consider this masons when you talk again. One of you might be selling info to the mafia.

I'll bet Sasaki would remedy this advantage by adding a few extra pro-town roles if this was the case huh Sasaki?

[Sir Moody]

Too many suspects and not enough posting... i cant make head nor tails of any of this but there is one thing we know - Reenk wasnt mafia

I think im going to

Vote Csar

he was very nearly a successful Godfather not long ago and so would be a good recruit

[Sigurd]

Besides that I'm completely out of suspects.
That shouldn't stop you from provoking responses by voting for someone.
You should pick a random name from the list of players.. look into their posts and find something to pick at... Then go after them Sasaki style.
Maybe they will say something that will give away their role if they have one. I know this is easier in games with few roles... but it is worth a shot.

[Peasant Phill]

This is true... but they might have investigated players with pro-town roles unintentionally. They come up as innocents as well do they not? What if Warluster had a pro-town role?

The investigator(s) is/are masons as he/they wouldn't have known if someone was innocent. The masons know each other, so they wouldn't investigate a mason or they wouldn't name him as innoncent in fear him being killed. So pro-townies killed this way.


There is one 'aber' in this game and that is the choosing of mafiosi.
Discovery1 as Godfather chose his Mafiosi after the roles were distributed, and the likelyhood that players with a pro-town role also is a mafioso demands to be looked in to.

That's a valid point, but I doubt it. If one of the masons is a mafia spy and all the masons know each other, wouldn't the masons be killed off by now? What's the point of using pro-town roles if the risk of losing them in the first few rounds is so great? I think Sasaki kept this possibility in mind.

[Kommodus]

The numbers is a rather easy encryption and most likely tells us who the masons has investigated and found innocent.

Perhaps, but there seems to be something inconsistent about this theory.

1. We can't be sure, but past experience leads me to believe that Sasaki would not include more than one Masonic detective.

2. Sasaki is known to give detectives the results of their investigations at the same time that the results of the night's action are posted. This means that in round 1 they would have zero results to report, in round 2 they'd have one result, etc.

3. The message in the second round contained two sets of numbers, while the message in this round contained none. This seems to conflict with #1 and #2 above.

Still, we don't really know what the special abilities of the masons are, so you might still be right.

And Sigurd... a little patience, please! I've said it before: under my current method, it takes a few rounds to acquire enough data to form a good suspect list. We're only just now getting to that point. I'm at work right now and can't run an analysis, but I will when I get home.

[Dutch_guy]

Heck I'll do it for you:
Vote: Dutch_guy for lurking and naming me to be killed early - MAFIA I tell you!!!

I always lurk, more or less, and you have been in enough mafia games to know this.

As for naming you to be killed early ? Do you even believe that yourself. you did notice that typed emoticon, didn't you ?

:balloon2:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

There is one 'aber' in this game and that is the choosing of mafiosi.
Discovery1 as Godfather chose his Mafiosi after the roles were distributed, and the likelyhood that players with a pro-town role also is a mafioso demands to be looked in to.

That's only the soothsayer role. The other roles were chosen from non mafia.

[doc_bean]

ugh...game complex...brain hurt...

vote: doc_bean

for not contributing anything valuable to the discussion.

[UltraWar]

Vote:Csar for same reasons as my last vote

[Sigurd]

That's only the soothsayer role. The other roles were chosen from non mafia.
Do you mean to say that Discovery picked his henchmen before you assigned the Mason roles? but the soothsayer could be mafia? ... what about other roles? You did mention other roles.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Do you mean to say that Discovery picked his henchmen before you assigned the Mason roles? but the soothsayer could be mafia? ... what about other roles? You did mention other roles.

signups closed
randomly chose disco
disco chose henchmen
randomly assigned soothsayer from all players
assigned masons+other from non-mafia

[Masy]

Ok, whoever orchestrated my death either has a photographic memory, or bears a grudge.

In my first ever role as mafioso, I killed someone with an osmium chain (super heavy, drowned someone in pond etc.) I can't actually remember who it was I whacked, but my recent (and unfortunate) death was with the use of osmium. Too specific a metal to be coincidental, So, 2 possibilities i have emerged with.

1) It's the person I killed many moons ago, still angry and dying for revenge (unlikely.)

2) It's someone with a consistent attention to detail, mocking me...perhaps also attempting to frame the said person that I killed so long ago.

Either way, kudos to the mafia for such an interesting and personal death :beam:

[Masy]

Also


Hang the horseman
For death devours steadily
Slay him and slow
The consumption of our community

Evidently this points to Husar (husar...hussar). I believe, had the mafia been posting this graffiti, they would not have attacked Husar twice ( I think another graffiti was aimed at him.) Anyhoo, what would the mafia have to gain by sticking to arousing suspicions of one person? Surely they would want to spread as much confusion as possible, rather than repeatedly going after only one person. I think its more likely this is a mason's post, encouraging us to kill Husar. Whether this is good enough reason to lynch him is another matter, but I honestly don't think the masons would be as obscure to keep banging on about telephone numbers. If there are any secrets hidden in these numbers, there too ruddy difficult to decipher:


''We do not write in prose, look to the numbers. We are trying to help, and we might even have succeeded in helping an individual, but keep the discussions going !''

Look to the numbers! Bah! If this is really a mason post (which I doubt, mafia tricksters :inquisitive: ), we are not cryptologist's on a hunt for mythical artifacts! Throw us a fricken' bone already! And if this is a mafia post, I know what your game is; get us distracted by numbers, so we are blind to your devious behavior...I'm on to you swines.

Something to think about.