Civil War of Carthage, 480 B.C. Alternate History

[Marshal Murat]

As a beginning note, most military tactics and troops will be drawn from Persian, Greek, Gallic, and Italian history. This period is lacking in sources, because most of it was probably destroyed in Alexandria, or not actually recorded at all.
Many of you know about Dido in the Aeneid, and her mythical founding of Carthage. Not much is mentioned until later, when the Carthaginians are really fighting the Greeks and Romans. As such, the terms in the interactive are very broad and of inventive. While the historical accuracy is very questionable, I'm dedicated to providing the most probable results possible, and making this as historically accurate, despite the unfortunate space in historical texts. It's really to bad there aren't more works on this period, but this period doesn't have as many authors.
Therefore, I'll outline the general situational land control of Carthage. The relative realm of the Carthaginian Empire is Carthage and the surrounding area, the coast, and then lower Spain to the Ebro. Sardinia, Corsica, and Balearic Islands.


In the year 480 B.C., momentous events were transpiring around the Mediterranean. The greatest recorded event was the Persian War between the Greek city states and the Persian Xerxes. Salamis and Thermoplaye, fought out on the peninsula of Greece. There were greater events transpiring on the other end of the sea. The great Carthaginian tyrant Hamilcar I has died recently, after his armies suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of the Syracusans, leaving a power struggle between the Merchant Houses and the Royal House. Those of the Merchant Houses had been calling for increased power, because of their influence and monetary contributions to the Royal Coffers.
The Mago family, rulers since the death of the last of the Line of Dido, those rulers have kept their lines pure, and rule strong. However, the last ruler, Hamilcar I has caused a rift between the Mago family and the Merchant House of Barca, the House of Balcara, House of Hego, and the House of Cagar.
The rift resulted from Hamilcar's unfortunate penchant for pleasure and luxury. Many called his court a rival for Xerxes. This was due to the relative security of Carthage, because of the vassal oaths from the Numidian kings keeping the desert raiders away from the sterling white walls. Since the regular taxes couldn't be raised without the Council of Elder's approval, which was like cooing a fish out of water, he had decided to confiscate the 'illegal profits and contraband' of the Merchant Houses.
Balcara, Hego, Barca, and Cagar were the major targets, their warehouses providing the western Mediterranean with many of the items of need, from Spices of the Orient, the Gold of Ghana, Tin of Britain, Grain of Egypt. The merchant fleets were stopped by the Royal Fleet, and the 'contraband' on board were taken. The families roared and raged against Hamilcar I, the men of the Houses railing against the King in the Council of Elders. With the hundreds of drachma's in profits from the resale of these materials, the King was able to build two floating palaces. The sheer decadency enraged every Merchant House, and caused many to plot against the King.
However, when four young nobles from the House of Hego was found out, they were summarily stripped of their ranks as Navy Captain, and they were crucified above the harbor entrance. They struggled and cried, and the harsh sun baked them alive. It was torture, and when the finally died, the fetid stench rippled across the city. It was a punishment without equal, and when their bones were picked clean, they were heaved into the ocean and smashed into the deep blue darkness. The meaning was clear to the Houses, and talk of rebellion was quiet, at least for the time.

Now, with Hamilcar I death, the House of Mago had no leader. In the Twenty-Table Law codes, the next ruler was then chosen by lot amongst the Council of Elders. An obscure family from Spain was chosen, causing indignation from the four Houses. They all felt entitled, and Hego was no different. As such, the four Houses moved into the corners of the Carthaginian realm. Barca moved to Spain, Balcara to Outer Carthage, Hego to Sardinia, and Cagar moved into the Balearic Islands.
Now you take command of the House of Barca, led by the forty-five year old Hamilcar Baal Barca. Your city of Gadir is a trading outpost, beyond the Pillars of Herakles. The trade is mostly in Britannia Tin, and Ghana Gold, other materials that must pass the Carthaginian city to reach the Mediterranean. It is a strong city, with walls of stone, and thousands of inhabitants.
The obscure House of Barbahal, now the King of Carthage and her Realm, they are worthless and weak. The Royal Army and Navy are small in comparison to the private armies of the Merchant Houses. As such, the Merchant Houses have taken power into their own hands many times. This free hand usually breeds contempt, and there are reports Hego is calling mercenaries and allies to her cities in Sardinia, and building her a fleet of triremes and transports for their soldiers. The buildup means one thing. War. Barbahal isn't strong enough to hold Carthage, but one of the Houses are. Hamilcar must either submit to another house, or fight with his own significant power. However, this civil war hasn't begun as of late, forcing you to bide your time until news reaches the outer realms.

Every turn will last 2 weeks.Good Luck.

1)Your House has four colonies along the seaboard coast of Atlantic. The largest is with maybe a hundred colonist, and then they decrease in size from there. They are reporting that several Iberian tribes have been attacking forage parties, causing light casualties. Since the Royal Garrison in Spain is only about 500 men, the House of Barca has provided mercenary or militia forces to assist with 'local issues'.
A)Send 10 triremes and 1,000 soldiers to attack the local tribes headquarters in the farther wilderness.
B)Send ambassadors to the local tribes, with several wagons of goods. When the ambassadors have started talking with the leaders, open the wagons up and launch the hidden soldiers amongst the enemy garrisons, killing them, enslaving the people, and burning the towns.
C)Withdraw the traders and colonist back to Gadir, and have them settle elsewhere.
2)A storm has destroyed 4 merchant ships, 2 triremes, and 8 fishing ships, all of your House Fleet. The losses aren't small enough to be covered by other merchants, and the shipyards can build only 3 ships every month. Which ships will you build?
3)Pirates, the bane of the Merchant Houses, have been raiding locally, and their bases identified. While the magistrate is supposed to take care of it, he is undecided, and you are his uncle.
A)Lead a combined force along the coast, blockade the pirate holdouts, and then assault. It would take about 1,000 soldiers and 20 ships for this task along the entire coastline.
B)Parley with them, and have them form a raiding force that might become useful in the coming civil war.
C)Using merchant ships, you load them with 2,000 soldiers and when pirates board, they kill and destroy the pirate fleets. However, when the tactic becomes known, pirates may withdraw into their ports, hoping your attention gets drawn away, which it may if war comes.

:egypt:

[AntiochusIII]

Huh? Carthago Nova (Qart Hadast-in-Iberia) wasn't founded until Hasdrubal, son of Hamilcar Barca, took over his father's campaign in Iberia long after the First Punic War...how come we have a fine city there already?

At the era of our game it would be more appropriate to use Gadir as the major Carthaginian outpost in Iberia, and perhaps the Barcid's base in our fictional campaign.

Also, Carthaginian power in the Iberian peninsular at the time was essentially limited to Gadir and other Phoenician coastal outposts. Very few of the Iberian tribes were likely to be subjected to them yet if any, and most likely not independent Greek colonies like Saguntum, either.

Unless, of course, your intention was to create a fully fictional setting with limited ties to the real life Carthage.

Another interesting event at 480 B.C. is the supposed battle between a certain Hamilcar and the Syracusan tyrant, in which the Greeks won: did this happen yet?

P.S. I'm too sleepy right now; I'll come back and make choices later! :bow:

[Lord Winter]

1. a: B would make us lose trust in other diplomatic dealings we do and C is out of the question. If possible see if there are any tribes who we could ally with. Perhaps promise them gold, land of the conquered tribes ect...

2. Two Trimines and a merchant ship If war is coming soon we'll need all the war ships we can get. The merchant ship will help with wealth.

3. b could be useful again promise them lands protection and gold.

[IrishArmenian]

1) B. Use diplomacy: win them with exotic goods!
2) Same with DOH I will go with 2 tiremes and a merchant ship.
3) B. Pay them to raid ships of the king.

[AntiochusIII]

Now that I got some much needed sleep. :dizzy2:

1) I agree with Destroyer of Hope: the Iberian tribes understand blood. The second choice would not work the second time, so I'll save it for more dangerous opponents inland or other Carthaginian factions, and the third, well, weakness!

Therefore, first choice. Don't be too harsh on the tribes, though; if Carthaginian brutality crosses a certain threshold, the Iberians would unite against us in desperation instead of merely fearing our power. No complete massacre of entire villages or anything like that. Slavery, may be. :devil:

I suppose since we lost the entire Barcid fleet in that disastrous storm that we'll co-opt Carthage's navy for the triremes needed for the operation? It's unlikely that the already weak royal family would deny a "loyal" noble's request: he needs all the allies he could get.


2) I'm not sure about the purpose of fishing ships -- I presume they feed our colonies and the like. Since there appears to be no problem at the moment with food shortages and farming and foraging in those settlements would not be a problem once the Iberians are cowed, I don't think we need any yet. Besides, they'll take up precious naval resources. Later, may be, when we need to raise a big army and all the wheat are needed elsewhere.

Merchant ships: money and prestige (we are a merchant house), information from other lands as well as transport for our agents if need be. But will be useless without military assets to protect them.

Triremes: the poster boy of classical naval warfare, at our timeline still very much the top dog until at least Athens' decline. We'll need those for troop transport and war in general.

For consensus' sake, I agree with others: 2 triremes and one merchant ship.


3) I disagree here. The first choice costs too much (where can we find any more of the triremes for the operation considering we have no triremes left and any the motherland can spare will be used against Iberians?). The second choice might appear attractive, but pirates have been known to turn on their paymasters without a blink of an eye. I can't take that chance right in the middle of a losing war. Moreover, our gold could be better used and any potential allies in other merchant houses will be lost if we are to offer the pirates protection. Pariah, I'd say.

Instead, opt for the third choice. The key to this choice is actually that we board the pirate ships and take them for our use! Now that's a good way to rebuild a lost navy. Once they retreat back to their ports we can switch to the first operation at a later date: wipe them out when they're weaker.

[Ignoramus]

1) I agree with Antiochus, if we go with B, the Iberians will be more wary of us in the future. Therefore, I'll go with A.

2) I think that we ought to go for 3 triremes. Whoever has the largest military fleet will dominate the Mediterranean. Thus, we will be able to capture out enemies merchant ships.

3) I'll go with C.

[Marshal Murat]

1)
A.3
B.1
C.

2)3 triremes,2 triremes and a merchant ship

3)
A.
B.2
C.2

We have a tie on option 3 at the moment.
Option 1) Will be A unless there are 3 more who go for B.
Option 2)2 Triremes and a merchant ship
Option 3)We have a tie by my count, so PM your friends, get some more .Orgahs in on this thing, and get a decisive vote!


:egypt:

[CountArach]

1) A
2) 3 Triremes. We will need them in the future I think. This is Carthage so whoever controls the seas wil likely control the war.
3) B

[Gurkhal]

1. A

Better teach the Iberians a lesson in a language that they can understand. B would also make other Iberians see us as false and most likly make diplomatic dealings with them much more harder in the future.

2. Two trimeres and a merchent ship.

War ships is good in a war, as is wealth which we'll need in order to pay for enough pay-swords in the coming war. Thus somewhat of a middle road.

3. C

We must show ourselves as the ones who can, and will protect merchents from the pirates to win support in Carthage. Making us appere as a grand defender of the seas against the evils of pirates could be a very good propaganda image in Carthage. I would prefeer A, but since I understood that most of our troops will be away to deal with the Iberians, we'll have to use suprise against them. If that fail we can always wait for the return of the expedition up to the north before launching a grand assult on the pirates.

[Marshal Murat]

We still have a tie on 3!

[Lord Winter]

I'll switch to C. Your right we cant run the risk of a bribe

[Marshal Murat]

Thank you...
I'll be posting a new chapter in an hour (or so)

[Marshal Murat]

September 11-25 480 B.C.E.

The crisp morning breeze catches your trireme sails as the eastern wind blows in, pushing the 10 triremes and the 1,000 mercenaries into the distance. Three days were needed to bring about the total of 1,000 mercenaries. Now they are ready, with spears, swords, and shields, Corinthian helmets and bronze armor. Some mercenaries are also on merchant ships, sailing out an hour later to get some pirates. You sail into the retreating darkness, and by the sun's zenith your at the mouth of a river, where your colony sits. The colony is small, with wooden palisades and only a couple ships at the docks. One of them is a thin oar powered boat. The river guide. Docking, you meet the guide, and take the ships upriver. As you go upriver, you see a party of revelers, drinking on the beach. Landing a trireme, you 'capture' several of them, and through their drunken speech, you get to the root.
The Iberian leader is Haecatue, a belligerent Iberian warlord. The colony is evidently located on a sacred tomb of some ancestor. It explains the random scattering of object found when they dug up holes for the houses. The warlord is sleeping in a town only a couple miles from the landing site. Disembarking, the mercenaries are marched up-river. As they reach within bow-shot of the town, you order a charge, into the gates of the town. You catch the Iberians unawares, and within a couple minutes the town is sealed from the Iberian forces that would be sitting outside. Finding the warlord, you demand hostages and tribute. He refuses. With a sudden thrust, you push the iron blade deep into his rib-cage, killing him. At that, the Iberians fall to their knees and submit to your control.
The next day, you return to Gadir and garrison the mercenaries in barracks. Your nephew sends a messenger to your house. The hidden ships took several pirates as prizes. Then the pirates told of their hovels and ports, before they were crucified on the shore of Gadir. The Royal Garrison was then sent out, and the pirates were taken by force. The rewards were massive. Evidently they managed to take several cargoes of Iberian silver from local merchants, that went 'missing' when they were taken to the magistrates palace.

You wait several days, as news from your shipyards indicates that the work is proceeding smoothly, the triremes and merchant ship built from the finest wood.
The next day, several envoys appear at your door. They are from seven Iberian tribes that were neighbors to the Iberian Haecatue. Evidently he wasn't only angry at your colonist. With his death and your influence, they have come to you, asking to be given Carthaginian protection. They were willing to give hostages, tribute, and several even offered to marry their chieftain's daughters to your son, a admiral in the naval depot on the eastern coast of Iberia.
Then one morning a merchant ship breezes into port, oars and sails out. The captain reports to your house, with several letters and an oral report. He speaks slowly.
"The Hego tried to launch a coup. Their leader killed the King, and actually killed three of his guards, and the rest submitted. However, when the news broke out the Balcara and Cagar supporters and clients took up arms and fortified their city quarters. Mansions are now citadels, and the Royal Army has deserted to their families. The city is in an uproar. Terror, destruction." Then the captain dropped the letters and left for the docks.
The first was from Hanno Gisgo Hego.
Most royal Barca, greetings.
Let me tell you that these patriotic words are truthful and meritorious. The King, as you well know, was weak and couldn't lead this nation through a tough time. We, like the Line of Dido, are a strong House, and we are asking that you await the final outcome as we go through turbulent times, ones that can be calmed quickly.
Most noble and humble Hanno Gisgo Hego
Both letters from the other Houses indicated that they wished to form an alliance against the 'usurpers'.
Now the final letter was unusual. It is from Hanno 'The Black' Barca. Your cousin from the marriage of your uncle and a Nubian princess, he was a friend and trusted colleague.
My Cousin, Hamilcar Baal Barca.
I am reporting to you on the conditions of Carthage. The Mansion is as fortified as the citadel, with strong beams and blocks of stone. I have taken the liberty of sending all your ships and loyalists to Gadir, so they can assemble. I feared sabotage of our ships, important in the upcoming conflict. I tell you honestly of the war. The Houses have hired mercenary groups, and we fight with tiles, rocks, clubs, swords, and pebbles. Battles in the marketplaces, plazas, and in tall buildings there are battles on floors. I am asking that you do send me troops and supplies to fight the enemy. I can last as long as I can, but help is appreciated.
Your faithful cousin, Hanno Barca.

At this you break down. The city is now a boiling town of war and destruction. You wallow in your sorrow, wine and food lulling you to sleep. The next day, a massive Barca fleet appears from the Pillars, and they are an assorted fleet. Barges, merchant ships, fishing ships, triremes, and everything else in between.
You call your nephew and discuss what to do.

1)With the Iberians at your doorstep, you have to decide what to do about them. They can be allies or a stumbling block.
A)They would provide valuable allies and a recruiting pool. They're added forces and influence can force many things in life. The other Houses may try to invade your territory, but your allies can destroy them before they attack you.
B)They would be a lead block around your neck. They would drag you down in internal conflicts, forcing you to spread your forces.
C)Take up their offer, and provide a small garrison to each of them, so they may fight off the enemy if they do attack.

2)You can hire 5,000 mercenaries for a month, but the money could be spent elsewhere, bribing or influencing other players in this civil war.

3)There is a very close to legal form of pirating ships, where the magistrate confiscates the merchant's supplies and ships.
A)Go for it, take the ships and the materials. However, the merchant's local influence is there, and can incite some to violence.
B)Don't do it, tells the other Houses that you don't need to steal to win
C)Confiscate only the warships. You'll need them.

4)The fleet of the House of Hego has not been mentioned. Either it has disappeared, or it wasn't mentioned in any reports, or worse, they are sailing for the Balearic Islands, or to other areas in the Carthaginian empire.
A)Send your ships to wait at the Pillar of Herakles, and attack Hego if he appears.
B)Keep your ships in port
C)Send your ships hunting the fleet, and attack them if they are found.

5)What about your cousin in Carthage?
A)Send troops
B)Await enemy House actions that would affect your cousin
C)Send money and supplies to your cousin.


OOC:Sorry about skimpy details. I had an original, but I hit a button, lost all the info, had to write one to succor your needs.

[Gurkhal]

1. A

In Iberia we have an oppertunity to create a source of both wealth and manpower.While we may be dragged into tribal-feuds and the like I think its something that can't be avoided if we are to make full use of Iberian resources. I am fully convinced that the benefits of such a course regarding to the Iberians would be greater than the problems it would create.

2. Hire between 2500 too 3000 soliders. That way we get some muscle and also keep some money for other uses. I suppose we can always hire more soliders later on for money unspent if it would prove necissery. Correct?

3. B

I belive that brute force isn't enough to win support among the people. And in Carthage the most importent people are the merchents. I think we should go with the image of a great defender and protector of trade and the ships, something which should make merchents friendly to us. Thus we shouldn't behave like pirates. And if the other Houses do, we'll be in a much better light and PR situation than the others.

4. A

If Hego arrives with his fleet, he obiously is seeking to attack us and we can strike at him with right intentions. We shouldn't however go after him upon the seas as we don't known if he really is going to attack us. No reson to provoke him, yet. In all I think we should go after that "better to be safe than sorry".

5. C

I don't like the idea of sending troops away at the moment. But I like the idea even less to abandon a friend in trouble. It would be wrong, and it wouldn't look good in terms of a propaganda image. Therefor I say we send money and supplies which our belegered friend can use as he pleases. It also shouldn't be as provocative to others as if we sent armed men into the city. The risk is of course that the material could be confiscated. But that could most likly be turned against the one who did it in the propaganda.

The downside is of course that we'll not be taking advantage of a good situation to march for the city. Still I usually try to play safe.

[Marshal Murat]

With decisions at hand, you decide to embrace the local tribesmen, and hope they don’t try to involve you in their affairs. It doesn’t seem to work, as the tribe of Argatocles leads an assault on the city of Hundir, a Greek port on the Mediterranean side of Iberia. The assault is a failure, and Argatocles is killed. Now a federation of Iberian city-states is formed to counter your nation and it’s allies. They have requested that the House of Cagar assist them as head state. Now the Cagar Federation and Barca Federation are facing off along the mountains and vales of Iberia.
In this light, you decide to hire 2,500 mercenaries, mostly heavy mobile troops and cavalry to assist your Iberian allies in their battles against the Cagar Federation.
You also send the fleet down to the Pillars of Herakles and they await any Hego fleet. On the 4th day of the second week, several Hego ships slid past the Pillars of Herakles, and your ships leap on them. They capture several hundred mercenaries and four triremes. Interrogating the captain, they learn that the troops were to spring off the ships and take the governor prisoner, and force people to either join Hego or die. Luckily, they were stopped and crucified on the Pillars of Herakles.
Your decision to not confiscate the merchant ships and warehouses was ill advised. The merchants of the other houses almost immediately cleared out their warehouses of gear, and heaved from the port, taking along any house supporters. Now the harbor is full of Barca ships, and news returns to you that the House of Cagar and House of Balcara have confiscated the merchant ships, and your merchants tried to instigate a rebellion or protest, but to no avail. You’ve lost a lot of the ships across the Mediterranean, with little gain for yourself, other than a public relations bonus.
However, with the port free of spies, you load several transports with money and supplies and send them to Carthage. With the load, they are able to land in the city, bribing several sea captains. Your cousin is thankful, and has managed to fortify and secure the rest of his supporters quarters. Disturbing news has reached you of a great battle between Balcara and Hego. The Hego fleet landed in Outer Carthage, and attempted to seal Balcara’s fate. However, the House of Balcara managed to get word by Numidian scouts to the main army, and they met the House of Hego on the beach. A massive battle of 10,000 troops on each side, your surprised at the battles size. The report goes like this.

After a week of sailing, the fleet landed in Outer Carthage, and was spied by Numidian shepherds. Riding back to the House of Balcara’s base, they quickly mustered mercenaries, levy troops, elephants, Numidian cavalry, and twenty chariots. The House of Hego had purchased about 5,000 medium troops, 3,000 pikemen, and then 2,000 cavalry. To face this, Balcara had 6,000 levies, 2,000 mercenaries, 20 elephants, 20 chariots, and 2,000 Numidian cavalry. When the battle began, the chariots rushed forward, and disrupted Hego’s lines. The pikemen were rushed apart to avoid the chariots, and the elephants and Numidians poured through, followed by the mercenaries and levy troops. Disrupting the entire battle line, Hego was forced to beat a retreat to their ships, and leave with about 6,000 men. Balcara lost about 500 men, mostly from friendly casualties.

Now your House faces momentous decisions in Gadir. First, the two confederations will do battle soon, with whatever forces they have. Your post is secure, and Cagar seems to have landed several companies of troops. The conflict will no doubt occur soon, and you must leave with troops to lead the battle. Your mercenaries number 4,000 men, and then the Iberian allies will number at least 8,000 men, or more. The Cagar Federation has maybe 6,000 men in Iberia, and more may come.
1.
A)Lead your troops along the southern coast, gaining support of any neutral Iberian clans and tribes, and secure the beaches from Cagar threats.
B)Move straight to Hundir (New Carthage) , and strike again. A powerful bastion will assist your nation and
influence the other tribes.
C)Move to the area between Hundir and Gadir. Secure food from your allies, and meet the enemy on the fields and mountains there. Sway local tribes to contribute, and get some cavalry from the local tribes. A battle is key to victory in the area.
2.
Now that the merchants have escaped, what are you to do with your House's fleet.
A)Raid and pillage Outer Carthage, Balearic Islands, Sardinia, and Mediterranean Iberia.
B)Move to the Pillar of Herakles, and await any ships to try to pass through, ambush and destroy or capture them.
C)Move the fleet along the Atlantic, and see if you can sway locals with your naval might. Establish a couple colonies, and see if you can take tribute.
3.Now that lines have been drawn, what are you to do about Balcara. They have proved their worth, and can recapture Carthage if they tried.
A)Send envoys to ask about an alliance
B) Don't worry about them yet.
C)Other

[Gurkhal]

All of these choices might not be the best. But I think it's better that this IH keeps moving itself at this point. Rather than that I should spent another week thinking about what to do.

1. B

I see no reson not to use the advantage we have, we outnumber them by two against one. Best to strike before they can reinforce themselves. The local tribes can be taken care of later. Also since we still have some money (I presume. Correct or not?) we can hopefully bribe them if there would be problem. By taking their stronghold we will also be allowed to be the only power in Ibera, as well as to force them to react to our moves rather than the other way around. They might also be provoced into a battle before they are really ready, in which cause we can give them a hard blow without the hazzards of an sea-born invasion of their island-base.

2. C

I don't think that they'll try something else again so soon after their last defeat when sending a fleet against us. So I think that we should get onto the offensive. If anyone blames us, then we can easily point out that we didn't start it. We are only acting to react onto the much more vicious actions of others. Carthagian merchents should perhaps be given an advantages treatment. Not that enemies should be allowed to sail where they want. But ill-treatment is probably not to good for our RP image. I also belives that this might well to disrupt the Cagar from reinforcing their positions in Iberia by giving them some other problems and generally increase the pressure upon them. Naturally, if possible I would like to decrease the radio of these actions to the part of the sea closest to home and not venture to far away, as to make it possible for them to actually effect our struggle with the Balcara.

3. C

I think that an alliance would be too much. We are after all most likly to turn against them after we've dealt with the Cagar. Insteed a nonaggression pact or some similer thing might be better. It won't damage our credibilty as much when we break it, as it would to break an alliance.

[AntiochusIII]

1) B

Storm Hundir. The Cagar cannot be let to consolidate. Should the Iberian tribes realize that the Cagar are here to stay, many more will likely join them or start playing double games to turn the two Carthaginian factions against each other while they profit.

Don't bother with bogged down sieges; I doubt Carthaginian colonies, except for the bigger and more important ones like our own Gadir, are that fortified. And to be hit in the back during a siege is disastrous.

A is too slow for my tastes and allow the Cagar to establish themselves firmly. C is not a real choice as we do not have nearly enough resources and local goodwill to support a guerrilla campaign; and we have no reason to conduct one either.

Besides, things are heating up. Why should we stay behind in some backwater land when Carthage itself is at stake?

2) B

While C is an attractive base-building project, I think B is a better choice. While ambushing, make clear signals that we won't attack unless they fight back, though! Do it like a sneaky policing duty. This way, no more troublesome ships and spies would go around without our knowledge -- Gadir is, after all, on the Atlantic side of the Pillar of Hercules, not the Mediterranean side -- and we could confiscate enemy ships coming around. Let the harmless merchants go free, of course, with a little "compensation." ~;) No need for serious provocation.

My choice not to choose C is due to time concerns -- the fleet should be near if they're needed on the front against the Cagar Alliance -- and the issue that the project isn't likely to pay good short-term dividends.

A is out of the question. I doubt the Barca fleet is that strong, and it sort of ruins the point of the last chapter's decision, too.

3) C

Agreed with Gurkhal's proposal. A non-aggression pact: we won't bother you, good luck with the other houses, but we're not committed to be your lapdog yet. Expect your back to be safe if you guarantee ours will be too.

[Gurkhal]

I'll change my 2.C to 2.B after having been convinced by AntiochusIII