Out of character thread II

[econ21]

This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.

*****************************FAQ (REPOST)*************************************


Players and avatars

See:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1

Other players please sign up and declare which House - Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south) - you want to be an elector of. Note the Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned. You will be named Second Elector of X etc in the order in which you sign up in this thread. I will allocate settlements fairly equally across the Houses, so please do not all sign up for the same House. If the computer spawns many more avatars in a particular house, I may reassign players to Houses to avoid them waiting too long (subject to their consent).

Where to post:

All out of character discussion in this thread.

When the game starts, I will create more threads, so that:
All in character discussion in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread.
All in character stories in the stories thread.
Chancellor reports in the Chancellor reports thread.
All battle reports in the Battle reports thread.

RULES

How to play – in brief

All players are “electors”. They must choose a noble house to belong to - Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character (typically a general, but possibly spy, priest or diplomat - assassins may have too short a life expectancy to be advisable) or avatar who will represent them.

Typically, if a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle. Players may also be awarded a settlement to manage (making them a Count). They will decide what tax rate to charge and set a build queue (which must be followed if anything is built in their settlement).

Collectively, the nobles form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to set edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and play the game. He will move all the generals, authorise any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents.

”Edicts” are laws that mandate the Chancellor to specific action. Crucially, these include authorising declarations of war.

Game settings

*Patched MT2TW
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

The only mod we will use initially is Medifix 1.2:

http://files.filefront.com//;6476123;;/

This fixes vices and virtues, as explained here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1375537&postcount=1

Some notes on installation:



Medifix is really easy to install - you just extract two text files into your data folder and create a one line bat file in your main M2TW directory to run the game. The instructions are in the download.

...

Inside your main M2TW directory, just create a text file called "whatever.bat" using notepad, wordpad or something. The file has just a single line:

medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Then create a shortcut to it and paste to your desktop (I changed the icon to be M2TW's); double click to run.

....

If you follow the instructions for installing the mod, you end up with two icons - one runs normal M2TW; the other runs the bat file I mentioned above and so loads the two modified vices n virtues/traits files.


At a later stage, we may use a mod to handle the 2-handed weapon bug and give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints, but those should be savegame compatible. And I'd rather CA fix that through a patch than we use a mod.

Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]
1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.
1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.
1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts governors of the settlement for more than two turns are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.
1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.
1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The player is elected every 20 turns until it is judged the Empire is “large” (say, when it has 20 provinces), when reigns will switch to 10 turns.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders and governors. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 20 turns (10 turns if the HRE is large), or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +5 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 3 points):
Duke: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, typically when crowned, the Emperor can automatically assume the post of Chancellor.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. The role of posts - military commanders and governors

6.1 If a character governs a settlement for more than two turns, the Chancellor must officially appoint him “governor”. Counts set the tax rate and a (buildings, not unit) build queue for their settlements for 10 turns. If any building is built in the settlement, it must be on the build queue. Governors receive +1 civil influence for the duration of their appointment, or 10 turns, whichever is longer.

6.2 If the character leaves the settlement, the build queue remains valid until it expires (i.e. 10 turns after it was drafted). Taxes may be varied.

6.3 A Count has first refusal on governing their own settlement (no other governor may be appointed unless the Count declines to govern). The Chancellor may decline to appoint (or sack) the Count as governor, in which case the settlement can have no governor without the Count’s consent.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders get a permanent +1 influence and can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 An avatar who wins five major battles (each against 7+ enemy units) is promoted to Field Marshall. Field Marshalls have standing armies - no unit can be taken out of their stack without their consent. They cannot be dismissed by Chancellors, although their post ends after the second regular session of the Imperial Diet (ie lasts 20 turns maximum). After their post of office ends, they may be reappointed. Field Marshalls get a permanent +2 influence and can decide what to do with captured settlements (occupy, sack, exterminate).


7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

8. Historical armies

The following rules apply for field armies of 15+ or more units.

Generals - max 2 units
Knights - cavalry or foot, max 8 units inc. generals
[The class of knights is therefore: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights included those great dismounted knights you get in the Holy Land.)

Total cavalry - maximum 8 units, inc mounted knights and generals
[Non-knightly cavalry includes: Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants]

Artillery - maximum 2 units (5 in a siege - if caught in a field battle immediately withdraw excess of over two)
Foot missiles - maximum 6 units including artillery
[Foot missiles include: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners ]

Total elite heavy infantry - max 6
[Elite infantry comprises Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass?]

Other spears & feudal foot - unlimited
[This includes: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia]

For armies of size 7-14, the above limits are halved.

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

[OverKnight]

I'm getting all your screen shots Ignoramus, perhaps AG hasn't registered with ImageShack?

If you're interested AG check out the stickied How to Play a PBM at the top of the Throne Room, I found it very helpful when I started. (Lo that month ago :laugh4: ) It has links to ImageShack and other useful info.

[econ21]

I've made a post advertising for new recruits in the Citadel:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=79558

And twcenter post:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84132

And .com one:
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm55.showMessage?topicID=15796.topic

I've asked for any queries or interested people to post in this thread, so please make any newcomers welcome. Even if we just get one long stayer, like DDW in Wots PBM (who we recruited from the RTR forums), it will be worth it.

[Ignoramus]

Ok, I'll keep an eye out.

And I am glad that we have the battle timer on.

[Ituralde]

Finally, my first battle is approaching. :2thumbsup:

Could you upload a savegame of the current situation Ignoramus so that I can have a look whether Leopold would like to sally or whether he waits for reinforcements? It's just that he's brave and energetic so I can't imagine him cowering behind the walls, waiting. :beam:
Also, if I understood it correctly only one small stack is besieging Vienna and I wouldn't want it to merge with that other small stack roaming the countryside.

[econ21]

Be careful. The strategic AI is improved in M2TW and stacks are often mutually supportive... Maybe we should have a spy to check things out before doing anything rash.

[AussieGiant]

Things are going along at a nice clip here.

Great write up OverKnight.

I'm going to do a little reading as you mentioned. I can see all the other screen shots with out any problems. it's just one or two every now and then.

I think Ituralde is going to hand the Venitians a new set of lungs now he gets to fight!! :)

I'm still waiting for someone to lose.

[Ituralde]

Be careful. The strategic AI is improved in M2TW and stacks are often mutually supportive... Maybe we should have a spy to check things out before doing anything rash.

I don't think I understand you there? :inquisitive:

If by mutually supportive you mean that the other small stack could help the other stack beseiging Vienna, then that's exactly what I would try to prevent, and the forces beseiging a city should be visible.

EDIT:
Ah.. my bad, thought the 1124 savegame was not the one were Vienna was besieged, so I didn't download it until now. Now I see what you mean econ21, as the two stacks are so close to each other they might as well have merged. Looks like Leopold has to sit this one out. Too bad all Archers are holed up in Prague, could really need some of them if the Venetians attack.

[Dutch_guy]

I've asked for any queries or interested people to post in this thread, so please make any newcomers welcome. Even if we just get one long stayer, like DDW in Wots PBM (who we recruited from the RTR forums), it will be worth it.

Does anyone know where DDW is, he was quite the participant in the WotS.

Haven't seen him post in a while now, does he even have M2TW ?

:balloon2:

[lilirishman1986]

Hello i am intrested in joining the House of Bavaria if you are up for more players. Have been playing Total war since the times of the original Shogun and have been playing Medieval Total War 2 since game day. Hope to see you fellas around

[TinCow]

You have chosen... wisely. Bavaria is the future! :2thumbsup:

Welcome to the game!

[OverKnight]

Yes Bavaria is the future! Econ21 handles assignments and checks in frequently I'm sure he'll comment soon.

Have a look around at the Library, Chancellor reports and Diet threads. They're a good way to get up to speed and gain a feeling for KotR. If you have any questions feel free to ask in this thread.

[AussieGiant]

Welcome lilirishman1986,

Don't let the Bavarian faction seduce you too much lilirishman1986 :beam:

Econ will keep your request in mind.

Please consider House Austria.

[lilirishman1986]

lol im perfectly willing to go anywhere

[AussieGiant]

lol im perfectly willing to go anywhere


Good approach :2thumbsup:

We'll see what econ has to say about the situtation once he stops drinking lagers this afternoon in England somewhere :beam:

[Ituralde]

As Duke of the House of Austria I would of course be pleased if you would come to join our ranks. TinCow's character is a madman at best. ~;)
But in the end the House of Bavaria is a little short-staffed too and I'm looking forward to every new player that wants to join our game. :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

Actually all the houses are evenly staffed at the moment with about two active players each, the exception is Swabia with three.

As for Mad Max, Otto has actually enjoyed serving with him. We all know Austria is a den of sister marrying drunkards :laugh4:.

[econ21]

Welcome, lilirishman1986 :2thumbsup: - I think it would be fine if joined any house; like Overknight said, they have roughly equal numbers of active players. Go with your gut - I'll sign you up as the 4th Elector of Bavaria unless I hear otherwise.

[lilirishman1986]

haha than the 4th elector of Bavaria i will be. Also i noticed you all played using the Medifix 1.2 mod. I cant seem to download it from file planet. Could someone send that to me via email?

[OverKnight]

I just tried downloading it myself, it took a while for the save dialogue to load but it came up eventually and I downloaded succesfully. Perhaps you should give it another shot? FYI the file is in a .rar format and is named x6.

[econ21]

haha than the 4th elector of Bavaria i will be. Also i noticed you all played using the Medifix 1.2 mod. I cant seem to download it from file planet. Could someone send that to me via email?

Welcome, 4th Elector of Bavaria. :bow:

Here's the mod:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/medifix120.rar

[TinCow]

TinCow's character is a madman at best. ~;)

Sorry, it seems I have a tendency to play... passionate... characters. At least you can't say Max isn't consistent.

[OverKnight]

Convincing as well as passionate, when Max first began his proto-protestant rumblings, the Diet was aghast. . .now you've got half of them with you. It's too bad Ivarr hasn't been around, I would have loved to see Peter Scherer's reaction.

Speaking of the Pope, does his army have zone of control or pathfinding issues? He seems to be zig zagging around northern Italy without ever returning to Rome. You'd think he'd be off to Tunis or something. . .it's a little freaky.

Edit: I just noticed Max's priest "friend" is now a Cardinal. :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

TinCow don't take my remark wrong.
I love the character you've developed with Max and have to say that you're really playing him well. I strive for an equal amount of consistency in my play and I know how hard it is and you're really pulling it off well. Although I oppose Mandorf IC I would give my right arm to keep him in the game OOC. :yes:

Oh an congratulations lilirishmen1986! You've just joined the Dark Side! :laugh4:

[AussieGiant]

Welcome ilirishmen1986, may the Dark side of the force bring you all that you desire :beam:

[TevashSzat]

Hmm...econ21 told me to come here to sign up so i guess i'll be the newest elector of the house of swabia

[econ21]

Hi, welcome Xdeathfire. ~:wave: I'll sign you up as the 4th Elector of Swabia. I'm taking Grand Orso and Warluster off the playlist, as they have gone inactive (they are welcome to rejoin). Kagemusha is being bumped up to 3rd Elector of Swabia.

lilirishman1986 is now 4th Elector of Bavaria. We haven't heard from Ivarwolfsong in a while, but I am reluctant to take him off the list just yet as he did post some memorable pieces in character.

[OverKnight]

AG, I find your lack of faith. . .disturbing.

Welcome, Xdeathfire and lilirishmen1986, you've picked a good time to join.

Semi-seriously, we've hit a little bit of a pause. . .when are we going to get an update on the latest saves? I've got the bare bones facts in front of me but without context. I'm not sure what is canon yet and what isn't, if you know what I mean.

I apologize if I sound impatient, I'm engrossed in the story and I want to read the next chapter, it's a compliment. :2thumbsup: Sort of like waiting for "A Dance with Dragons" to come out.

Edit: Good story post Ituralde. I always wondered why towers seemed to have bowmen when the garrison had none.

[AussieGiant]

Great write up Ituralde!!

OverKnight...you're the only voice of reason I know in the Bavarian faction :beam:

I just wish IvarrWolfsong was here to balance out things. I'm sure the internal Bavarian struggle would be hugely entertaining if he was around. :2thumbsup:

I'm also a little surprised there is not a little more action on the weekends. But I suppose everyone has something to do.

Welcome Xdeathfire. You're going to enjoy this game I can tell you.

[OverKnight]

My originial plan with Otto was to have him be a brash young upstart, but that was overtaken by events and the actions of other characters. Plan B is to play him as a patriot with a pragmatic streak, no grandiose visions but also no interest in the niceties of war.

It's good that Bavaria is no longer a two man band, this will allow for some more variations.

[Kagemusha]

Wellcome lilirishman1986 and Xdeathfire! The more the merrier,hope to see you guys in the Diet soon.:bow: Other then that,what are the bases for emergency call for a diet? Shouldnt a new war be a reason for emergency Diet? Im pretty sure that many of the electors would chance their positions on many issues and also we shouldnt just wait out for the Venetians to keep the iniative when we are waiting with our moves becouse of bureocracy.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Welcome lilirishman1986 and Xdeathfire! You'll have lots of fun here, and you seem to have picked the right houses for action, considering who we're fighting with.

OverKnight - I'm doing a battle report that might cause some deliberation in the Diet later today, that might help with the pause.

[econ21]

Semi-seriously, we've hit a little bit of a pause. . .when are we going to get an update on the latest saves?

I am inferring that Ignoramus does not have internet access over the weekends, so we will have to get used to pauses on Saturdays and Sundays. Things did happen very fast on Friday when he became Chancellor, though, so we can't complain.


Other then that,what are the bases for emergency call for a diet? Shouldnt a new war be a reason for emergency Diet?

We have not set out the basis for Emergency sessions. People have to make a case in character and see if the Emperor will buy it. I would not want to see many Emergency sessions - each Diet session is 3 days debate plus one of voting, so that really slows things down. And the Chancellor only rules for 10 turns anyway.

Personally, I think the grounds for an emergency session would be:
(a) when the Diet really is not happy with what the Chancellor is doing and wants to pass edicts to change that;
(b) when the Chancellor is really unsure what to do and wants to put it to the test via deliberation, votes etc.
In real life war would be a reason for an emergency diet, but in the game, I would only press for one if you think the Chancellor is not handling it well (or will not handle it well).

In the current situation, if we get a Papal excommunication warning about persisting to attack Milan, and the Chancellor feels obliged to persist in these attacks because of edict 3.8, then it does seem to be grounds for concerned Electors pushing for an Emergency Session. Whether GH would grant one, given he supported edict 3.8, is another matter.

I think this issue is probably best discussed in character.

[Kagemusha]

Econ. Those are all good points and my proposal could result into almost continuos Diet sessions, but what im worried about is that we are heading into continuos streak of excommunications,when we start making decisions after 5 turns after the conflict has started. But then that seems already almost unevitable. I think it is just my personal liking of slow games that pushes me into more cautious direction.
If we look how many cities/castles we have already taken and the concensus of majority to take an agressive stand against the pope and not listening him, it will propably lead into situation that after 20-30 turns we will have absolute hegemonia in Europe,fighting on many fronts with non developed armies becouse our treasury is drained on our many armies fighting on several theatres, but that should atleast give us plenty of avatars and battles to fight soon.

[econ21]

Econ. ...it will propably lead into situation that after 20-30 turns we will have absolute hegemonia in Europe...

Maybe, but maybe the whole thing will come crashing down upon our heads. :scared: Ignoramus already had a close escape in the Alps. For what it's worth, many of the players pushing for a hardline on the Pope were opposed to any sign of "rushing" in the Wots game, so I think they are being driven by role-playing considerations rather than a desire for a fast paced game.

As I said, let's fight this out in character - by all means, call for an Emergency Session and raise hell about it in the Diet. The tension between desires for a slow paced game and aggressive instincts was arguably the main source of in-character divisions and disagreements in the Wots

[Kagemusha]

Maybe, but maybe the whole thing will come crashing down upon our heads. :scared: Ignoramus already had a close escape in the Alps. For what it's worth, many of the players pushing for a hardline on the Pope were opposed to any sign of "rushing" in the Wots game, so I think they are being driven by role-playing considerations rather than a desire for a fast paced game.

As I said, let's fight this out in character - by all means, call for an Emergency Session and raise hell about it in the Diet. The tension between desires for a slow paced game and aggressive instincts was arguably the main source of in-character divisions and disagreements in the Wots

Thanks for the advice.:bow: I think that my Swabian Elector character has to give out some of his wiews on the diet with sharp tone.:duel:

[lilirishman1986]

Ah this little new elector would like to know the status of the Empire. I think what i have read so far indicates that The Empire is fighting a 2 front war with Milan and a new one with Venetians who have back stabbed the Empire. Currently the Pope is set against us yet not the Empire is not currently Excommunicated.

Anything else i miss?

[OverKnight]

If you own M2TW, you can download the most recent save and take a look.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1124-2.zip

Poke around and see the current situation.

Yup, we are at war with Milan, they attacked Bern in about 1118, which we had just seized from rebels. The Venetians just joined the party, betraying our alliance with them.

Our Pope-o-meter is at a 4 out of 10. Fortunately Milan's is at a 3. The Pope is not hostile to us, he's just wandering around our lands with a huge army. During the last Diet session there was much discussion about taking Rome and deposing the Pope, most of those edicts failed, but there's still a lot of free floating anti-Papal sentiment.

The War with Milan is going well, Milan and Genoa are ours, and Dijon is about to be besieged. These battles however have left our troops in northern Italy worn down, and there is a Milanese army in the Savoy pass that could counter-attack. Vienna is under siege by the Venetians as well, that was the act that broke the alliance. Venice could also strike at our new and old possessions in Italy.

Edit: The way we've been playing we don't turn fog of war off when viewing saves and unless you're the chancellor don't play forward from them, or at least don't mention the results. Consider the saves scouting reports and such.

[lilirishman1986]

2nd quick question now that i am the fourth elector within the great house Bavaria may i take the floor within the Diet?

[OverKnight]

Please do take the floor, players without current avatars are encouraged to participate in all activities, speaking in the Diet, proposing edicts when the Diet is in session and plotting with fellow house members or associates in other houses. Just because you can't fight battles yet doesn't mean you can't have some fun.

If you've already read up on the Diet, followed the thread and such, feel free to speak there. AussieGiant is a good example of a player who, even though he doesn't have an avatar yet, has made his presence known.

Feel free to PM other players in character as well.

[Bizzair]

Hey ladies! ;)

I am sorry I realized I started a new thread. If someone could add me to xfire: blairgray0410

I am happily willing to join, and will make a commitment if someone can please! help me as I am a pc noob, and seem slow when it comes to things like this :shame:

[OverKnight]

Hey Bizzair, welcome aboard. Econ21 is quite active and should be around to help you at some point. If you're new to forums, click on the FAQ button on top of the control bar, gray bar at top, to get started. If you're just new to PBMs in general click on the How to Play PBM thread stickied to the top of the Throne Room.

If you want to find out about the KotR PBM I'd start by clicking on the KotR Library thread which is also stickied to the top. There are other threads as well that have a KotR prefix. This OOC thread also has the FAQ for KotR at the beginning. Hope that's enough to get you started. :2thumbsup:

[Bizzair]

Thank you, so I shoukd ignore all the threads without KotR in the name? I am heading off to work tommorow morning but when I get home I will read up on this, also please if you have xfire or msn do add me:

MSN: btotheizzair@hotmail.com
Xfire: blairgray0410 :egypt:

[Ituralde]

Hello Bizzair!

I'm glad you'd like to join in our game and I could offer you the most attractive post of Third Elector of Austria. :beam:
You would fit right in, seeing as the House of Austria has become something of a noob assembly, where no member has participated in the predecessor of this game WotS, but we're getting along well and could really use that third active player. :2thumbsup:

Once I'm home I'm gonna add you to my msn and if you have any questions after reading those mentioned threads, or anything else remains unclear, just go ahead and aks!

Cheers!

Ituralde

[Ignoramus]

I'm sorry about the delay; the coumputer I use needs to have Windows reinstalled. I should be able to continue tomorrow.

Bizzair: Welcome to the game. I suggest you read some of the Imperial Diet deliberations to get a good feel and grip of the game.

[econ21]

I am happily willing to join, and will make a commitment if someone can please!

Hi, Bizzair, welcome. ~:wave: You should start off by picking a House to belong to and posting your choice here. You can see the list of Houses and players in the table in the first post here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77311

Austria, and Franconia, are particularly in need of new members.

Then you should get up to date on what's been happening. I recommend reading the later reports in the above thread to learn about our war with Milan and now Venice. You can get a first hand info from the savegame:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1124-2.zip

Then I recommend you post in-character in the Diet:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77086&page=10

A current focus of debate is how to square the risk of excommunication with the desire to prosecute the war with Milan.

[econ21]

Ignoramus - please clear you PM box so you can receive new messages.

[Bizzair]

Alrite, sounds great! I read Austrias the east, I would love to be part of Austria! I'm at work right now, about to head on out for lunch... mmm McDonalds ;)

Anyway.. when I get home I am sure I'll find some nooby questions to ask..

But I have one main one, what are the names of the threads I should read, as I see ones with MTW2 and RTW and KotR and PBM at the front. Whichs ones should I stick to to find out about everything in this game. I will read the sticky on how to play when I get home!

Thanks! :idea2:

[Dutch_guy]

Alrite, sounds great! I read Austrias the east, I would love to be part of Austria! I'm at work right now, about to head on out for lunch... mmm McDonalds ;)

Anyway.. when I get home I am sure I'll find some nooby questions to ask..

But I have one main one, what are the names of the threads I should read, as I see ones with MTW2 and RTW and KotR and PBM at the front. Whichs ones should I stick to to find out about everything in this game. I will read the sticky on how to play when I get home!

Thanks! :idea2:

The Following I'd definitely recommend:

The previous OOC thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=76931)

Battle reports thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77457)

Stories thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77516)

Chancellor and governor reports (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77311)

The Imperial Diet (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77086)

The Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77335)

:balloon2:

[econ21]

Bizzair - yes, the relevant threads are those with Kotr in front; you can ignore the others. I'll sign you up as the Third Elector of Austria. :bow:

[AussieGiant]

Alrite, sounds great! I read Austrias the east, I would love to be part of Austria! I'm at work right now, about to head on out for lunch... mmm McDonalds ;)



Welcome to House Austria Bizzair!! Which time zone are you in?

[Jalf]

Ooh ooh, sounds like fun! Sign me up! I'd prefer to join Franconia or Swabia, but I'm not too picky... :)

And now, I guess I've got some reading to do, catch up on a bunch of threads... Everything KoTR, you say? :)

[OverKnight]

Welcome aboard! Feel free to post any questions you have in this thread.

[Ituralde]

Welcome Bizzair to the most noble House of Austria.

As you can see from the Diet thread lilirishmen1986 is already continuing the fine tradition of Austrian-Bavarian animosity. Too bad Leopold's not available in the Diet right now!
Also you should consider that it really isn't in Leopolds capability which units are built or what he does. Those are to a large part up to the Chancellor. :yes:

[AussieGiant]

Hey Ituralde, how long can Vienna last under seige?

You are in no position to attack so the Chancellor has to do something.

[econ21]

Ooh ooh, sounds like fun! Sign me up! I'd prefer to join Franconia or Swabia, but I'm not too picky... :)

Welcome, Jalf. :2thumbsup: I'll sign you up as the 5th Elector of Franconia.

[lilirishman1986]

oh i know the Leopold cant control troop types but i gotta start off the rivalry somehow lol.

[OverKnight]

Start it? You're just adding fuel to an already raging inferno. :laugh4:

I'm kidding mostly, the most recent debate over overthrowing the Pope has cut across House lines actually.

[Ituralde]

oh i know the Leopold cant control troop types but i gotta start off the rivalry somehow lol.

Hehe... if Leopold wasn't holed up in Vienna he'd be shredding you to cinders... verbally of course. :2thumbsup:

Vienna can hold out long enough I think. Currently I would even favour a sally again, because I thought about the situation and a sally would give the opportunity to attack each of the two stacks seperately if you're fast enough. Otherwise they would combine and I already fear what might happen if they combine and attack the depleted Militia. Either way I'm gonna loose some Militia, but should probably manage to win if I don't loose Leopold. :beam:

[OverKnight]

Kagemusha, I'd love to take out Venice, but as I mentioned a few days ago, I'm going on vacation (I'm heading to the airport in a few hours). I'll have internet access, so I can participate online, but I won't have my computer with me, so no battles.

If I can't play a battle, any battle Otto leads, like Milan is besieged for example, will be auto-calced. Heinrich and Otto are the only avatars in Italy at the moment, and I'll be away and the Kaiser's bodyguard unit is wrecked. I don't want to disrupt the campaign by my absence so all this was partly why Otto was calling for more avatars to be sent to Italy.

Believe me, if there was some way of bringing the game with me I would. But it's 15 degrees Fahrenheit out here and I need to go someplace warm. I'll be back and battle ready Friday evening (EST).

[Kagemusha]

I understand completely. I hope you will have great vacation m8!:2thumbsup: In character i tend to be very gloomy about the situation,in reality i dont think we are not in world of hurt yet. Ituralde could sally out and crush the Venetians in Astria since the Venetians are in two separate armies. Im just little worried about the Venetian army coming from the Adriatic cost towards Northern Italy.But with two turns before it reaches Northern Italy we should have more troops in hand and also GH´s bodyguard unit in better shape.:yes:

[Ignoramus]

GH, where's your report of the assault on Genoa? It sounds as if it's very interesting.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I have the screenshots and everything, I just lack the time to write it.

Hopefully I can find the time to do it tonight (GMT-5) but if not, then definitely tomorrow. I wish to do it justice.

[Warluster]

AM I still part of this?

[Dutch_guy]

I daresay that's up to you, would you like to ?

:balloon2:

[Warluster]

Ya!

But I am not mentioned on the people who are playing list???

[econ21]

Hi Warluster, you'd missed two voting sessions and not spoken during the relevant period so I took you off the playlist as being inactive; you're back on it now. I know it's a pain waiting for avatars, but they will come. The best way to ration them out is probably to give them to the avatar-less players who are most active.

[Verdizzy]

This looks like a very interesting game. I'd love to join in if it's not too late. Can anyone bring me up to speed on what I need to do to join in?

Thanks!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Welcome Verdizzy, Jalf, Bizzair, and anyone else I missed!

The first post in this thread should tell you a lot. To get up to speed on what's currently happening, I suggest you read the Chancellor Reports Thread as well as the Imperial Library (stickied). Once you know what you're doing, feel free to post in-character in the Imperial Diet deliberations. :yes:

[econ21]

Welcome, Verdizzy - all you need to do is pick a House and post your choice here. You'd be made an Elector of that House, with full rights to vote and pontificate in the Diet; in due course, you'll be given an avatar (general).

I recommend reading up some of the more recent Chancellor's reports and Diet deliberations, posting in character when you feel comfortable doing so.

[Bizzair]

Alrite, I am home!

Time to read every thread that has KotR at the front ;)

[Bizzair]

Okay.. I have read.

I am still kinda of confused as to where I start. Will I have my own character in the Imperial Library, and will my name be listed with my own general.

And where do I start, just get right in with negotiating new Laws etc. Not much I can do is there but do that for now.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Thanks to Tamur's tireless efforts, we now have M2TW avatars available to use. Do we want to do the same thing as Will of the Senate and pick the avatars that correspond with our character?

[Verdizzy]

Welcome, Verdizzy - all you need to do is pick a House and post your choice here. You'd be made an Elector of that House, with full rights to vote and pontificate in the Diet; in due course, you'll be given an avatar (general).

I recommend reading up some of the more recent Chancellor's reports and Diet deliberations, posting in character when you feel comfortable doing so.

I'd like to join the House of Austria.

[Bizzair]

Alrite, I am stil lvery confused as to where to start. I am kinda clueless as to what has happened in the past, and where I go abouts first

for ex. To start laws etc and debate. What do I refer to myself as, and what are my powers/responsibilities/tasks? :help:

[Jalf]

Is there a single place to always find the most recent savegame? (I'm guessing http://www.totalwar.org/Downloads/Uploaders/pbmupload.php, but would be nice to be sure I'm not wasting my time looking at obsolete campaign maps... ;))

[GeneralHankerchief]

Bizzair - In time, you'll get your own avatar. But right now there's a wait. Right now, the Diet isn't in session (that is, we don't get to propose edicts) but we do get to comment on what's currently going on (war with Milan and Venice).

Jalf - The latest savegame, the list of which can be found via the "View Upload Directory" link on that page, is kotr1124-2.zip.

[econ21]

Everyone can see the new recruits and their names (e.g. Verdizzy is now the 4th Elector of Austria etc) in the updated table here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1

Ignoramus: what's the status with your computer woes and indeed of the campaign? We can't afford a substantial pause in the game for technical reasons at this stage in the campaign. Please let us know when you can resume playing; if it is too long to wait, we may have to think about alternative arrangements.


Thanks to Tamur's tireless efforts, we now have M2TW avatars available to use. Do we want to do the same thing as Will of the Senate and pick the avatars that correspond with our character?

I have to stick to my robes but yes, people with generals can now use their portraits as their Org avatars.

[Ignoramus]

I'm back. I have just started again. Get ready for some shocks, mein electors.

[Ituralde]

Welcome to the House of Austria Verdizzy!
You have chosen well! :beam:

I'm also looking forward to the reports of GH and Ignoramus. Seems like we're in on something here. The game's progressing nicely I'd say! :2thumbsup:

[Ignoramus]

Oh and Ituralde, the three companies of Venetian Armoured Sergeants near Vienna have moved. So I think you've no better time to sally.

[Ituralde]

Great... tell me when I'm supposed to attack!

[AussieGiant]

I'm back. I have just started again. Get ready for some shocks, mein electors.

Hi Ignoramus,

I getting a little worried :)

Shocked is one thing, but not knowing is just killing me!!

You are going to go out and attack the Venetians Ituralde? I though the match up was not good.

What is the composition of the Venetian stack?

[AussieGiant]

Is everyone dead or something? :dizzy2:

It seems like a grave yard in here :juggle2:

[econ21]

Ignoramus is on Australian time, so I guess he's asleep right now. I've just taken Dijon; I'll write a short battle report, but it was so tense I did not take any good screenshots.

[Jalf]

I'm dead, yes. Died late last week... ;)

[AussieGiant]

Hi Econ,

Ok that explains it.

Sounds like you had a close shave. I still wondering when there will be a lose by someone.

...and Jalf, well you certainly doing well considering...:laugh4:

[StoneCold]

There was 1 major defeat in WoTS, cause the person who was playing it lost interest and the game was forced into autoresolved. End up in a good bit of drama where a trial, re-enactment of the battle and punishment to the avatar... Very nice storyline. Also I forgot who is the player that lost 3 generals in succession and all of them as co-consul. But he was always fighting seriously outnumbered and he didn't use the pause button if I remember correctly. Fun time though. :)

[AussieGiant]

Hi StoneCold,

That's interesting to hear. What would you describe as the percentages of total loses by human players in that game?

[Ignoramus]

Good morning guys, I'll get a lot more done today.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Good morning guys, I'll get a lot more done today.

No worries, take your time. :yes:

Anyway, the battle report of the Assault on Genoa is finally up.

[Verdizzy]

Hi everyone,

I'm still taking reading through everything to get caught up. I took a look at the most recent save game (at least I think it's the most recent) and I just wanted to make sure if I have the current situation right.

So we're at war with Venice and Milan? Seems as though there are only 2 settlements for Venice at the top border of Italy, just under the mountains. We are neutral with Hungary and allies with Poland. Since the previous session, has the war with Milan gone from defensive to offensive? Is it also a defensive battle against Venice?

I'd also like to ask when the next session is.

Thanks for helping me get caught up to speed.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The war on Milan is offensive, as a matter of fact I believe it's just been concluded as their last city has been taken.

The war on Venice is still defensive - Ituralde has a tough fight ahead of him to save Vienna.

The next session of the Diet is 1130, game time. You'll have to ask Ignoramus what year it is now, but I think it's sometime around 1126.

[AussieGiant]

Evening Ignoramus,

Don't mind me. I was just sitting at home getting a bit impatient.

OPC in the States just called...I'm getting my PC this Thursday!!!

FINALLY I'll be able to get more involved.

I`m excited!!! :)

[OverKnight]

Hi folks,

I'm writing from tacky, but warm, Las Vegas. Due to usual Vegas skullduggery I got an upgraded room, but not one with internet access for those of us who do not have a laptop. Given I don't have access to the game or a cheap connection at the moment, Otto's going be to be mostly mute untill Sat, if he lives that long :laugh4: .

I really wouldn't be able to speak accurately anyway since I can't look at saves, now I know how AG feels.

It looks like I'm missing a fun time and I'd like to welcome all the new players.

I might check in later on in the week.

[econ21]

Dijon battle report is up - no good pictures, but it was a tactically interesting assault. I really wasn't sure how I could pull it off, but the AI obliged by its woeful deployment and manoeuvring.

[AussieGiant]

Well written Econ. Without pictures you did a good job and I understood what happened very well.

Does this mean Milan is reduced to just a few islands in the Med?

[econ21]

Does this mean Milan is reduced to just a few islands in the Med?

I assume so - I haven't removed the fog of war to check. Milan does still have a couple of significant armies on the mainland.

[Ignoramus]

In case anyone's wondering, Ituralde is defending against a Venetian assault on Vienna.

Good write-ups GH and econ!

[AussieGiant]

Thanks for the information Econ.

Without save game views this is becoming increasingly difficult to keep up :)

Ahh well my machine is nearly hear.


In case anyone's wondering, Ituralde is defending against a Venetian assault on Vienna.

Good write-ups GH and econ!

Well this should be interesting Ignoramus :)

we'l see if Duke Leopold is good or not :)

[Ituralde]

Just a short note, that I fought the battle and uploaded the save game!

Cheers!

Ituralde

[AussieGiant]

Just a short note, that I fought the battle and uploaded the save game!

Cheers!

Ituralde

And!!!.....

Holy Hell Ituralde did you win lose or draw?? :beam:

You're killing me with the suspense. If we have lost Vienna then my characters going to have to go bonkers in the Diet!! :laugh4:

[Ituralde]

Well the battle went as expected. :beam:

https://img67.imageshack.us/img67/8864/victoryrj2.jpg

But another thing has me worrying.

https://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4140/betrayalxo2.jpg

[AussieGiant]

Good job Ituralde,

You gave them a good thrashing.

As the Milan threat diminishes the Poles come to the party.

I'm not complaining about the situation, but if we are invincible this game is not going to be very interesting.

[econ21]

... if we are invincible this game is not going to be very interesting.

One way to deal with this would be for a "peace party" to emerge to try to limit further conquests for a while - to give the AI time to build up. This happened in the Will of the Senate PBM, although typically it requires putting shackles on the Chancellor, as it is hard even for the most peace-loving player to avoid resisting the urge to stomp the AI.

Perhaps we should form a society for the preservation of Venice? :wink:

EDIT: Ignoramus, your PM box is full again - I can't reply to your message until you empty it.

[Ignoramus]

Sorry about that, it has space now.

[Jalf]

We're playing on hard/very hard, right? Any particular reason we didn't go with vh/vh?

Oh, and AussieGiant: Afternoon tea in the Diet? What was that all about? :p
Do germans even know what tea is? ;)

[econ21]

We're playing on hard/very hard, right? Any particular reason we didn't go with vh/vh?

Yes, I think it is H/VH - we did not go for VH campaigns because it makes the AI diplomacy more pyschotic. On VH, your relations with each faction are programmed to worsen over time. The same will happen with even H campaigns - so if we want real allies, we have to do things to raise our reputation and standing (e.g. avoid sacking cities; pay gifts) - but it happens faster with VH.

BTW: An important note for Governors and Chancellors - the Citadel testers have discovered that armour upgrades (and hence buildings that give them) are much more important than people might have thought. I think the discovery makes a leather tanner the highest priority build for most settlements (after maybe townguard buildings in cities for free upkeep). Gory details in the spoiler.

The +1 armour effect of each upgrade appears to be misreporting by the game. Testing by SMZ, Carl, Lusted and Foz implies that armour upgrades work as expected, in that each upgrade provides the reported type of armour (padded, light mail etc). The upgraded armour stat does not appear to be correctly reported, but the unit is still as resistant to missile fire as you would expect from a unit with that type of armour. Here is Lusted's summary of what armour stat corresponds (roughly) to each armour type:

Level 0: Flesh - 0
Level 1: Padded/leather - 3/4
Level 2: Light Mail - 5
Level 3: Heavy Mail - 7
Level 4: Partial Plate - 8/9
Level 5: Full Plate -9/10
Level 6: Advanced Plate - 10/11

The implication is that the lowest type of armoury is a great bargain - raising the armour stat of your initially unarmoured troops by around 3-4 points.

Discussion and original research here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=79784

[AussieGiant]

Hi Econ,

Yes that is about the only mechanism I can think of.

Still the game has a very robust process so it is definately possible. Especially if local or House based issues start disrupting our momentum.

We're expanding too fast IMO. It's going to be over in a flash.

Hi Jalf,

My guy's a little off the wall. Well travelled Vienna merchant classes I assume have a lot of worldly knowledge.

That's my story anyway :beam:

[Ignoramus]

Nonsense, you wait, I think we'll sustain some defeats. If we go carefully, then the AI has no chance. But if we overstretch ourselves then it makes the game more interesting.

[AussieGiant]

Nonsense, you wait, I think we'll sustain some defeats. If we go carefully, then the AI has no chance. But if we overstretch ourselves then it makes the game more interesting.


Well I don't know about nonsense. But I see you point Ignoramus. If we stretch ourselves too far then we are ripe for implosion.

On the other hand if we don't give the AI time to get it self together it will be equally boring. Plus we get no units other than basic ones.

I think a balance has to be struck.

[Ignoramus]

Well, half my reign has finished. It's now time for the mid-session Diet.

I'll post my mid-term report soon.

[econ21]

I'll post my mid-term report soon.

Please upload the latest savegame too. :2thumbsup:

[Ignoramus]

Certainly. I'll do it right away. Oh and I'll pm you about something, econ.

[Ituralde]

Another mid-term already. This one will be interesting.

I have a question that is not without personal involvement. I have been wondering if it was possible to appoint a stand-in general for battlest that could be fought with your own avatar?
The reason I'm asking is the fact that I'll probably go skiing next week, so I wont be there for like 5-6 days and I would hate to have all battles involving Leopold autocalced. Especially those, where he has to defend Vienna, which would surely loose us the city. So I'd be more happy if I could appoint another player from the House of Austria to fight those battles in my absence.

Just let me know what you think about it. :yes:

[econ21]

I have been wondering if it was possible to appoint a stand-in general for battlest that could be fought with your own avatar?

Generally, we avoided doing this during Wots. However, given that there is a queue of Austrian Electors without avatars, I'd be happy for one of them to substitute for you. AussieGiant - has your PC arrived? :jumping:

[Kagemusha]

Can someone link me with the latest savegame?:bow:

[TinCow]

Apologies, but I am very busy today and tomorrow and will not have time to update the Library until Saturday at the earliest.

[AussieGiant]

Generally, we avoided doing this during Wots. However, given that there is a queue of Austrian Electors without avatars, I'd be happy for one of them to substitute for you. AussieGiant - has your PC arrived? :jumping:


You bet your sweat fanny adams Econ!!! :bounce:

It's sitting right at my feet in the office. I'm taking it home tonight for the first boot up festival.

Actually the timing could be more perfect. I'm at a largish LAN weekend from Friday to Sunday. I'll be at home with a fully operational Death Star starting next week when Ituralde looks like going for a ski.

I'll be rusty having not played since December but I can sit behind some walls and crack a few Venitian skulls.:2thumbsup:

By the way, maps of the current situation would still be very helpful. When people are not at home they allow you to still look at things and stay involved.

Can someone please put some up?

[Bizzair]

Gah!

I'm still puzzeled as to what I am suppose to be doing, if someone could greatly help me out. I understand where we the Riech stand right now, but Im not sure on Edicts, I have read I second Edit etc etc. How do I know what all these Edicts are, and...

I dont mean to whine, but it is really confusing to know what sections in the forum I am to be reading, There all mixed up with the MTW2 and RTW boards etc etc. :help:

Please someone add me on xfire or msn!

[econ21]

Can someone link me with the latest savegame?:bow:

I'm assuming it is this one:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1130.zip

(PS: It's a good idea to browse the uploader - I always sort by "Last modified" and download the latest kotr file if I am curious about the state of the game.)


I'm still puzzeled as to what I am suppose to be doing, if someone could greatly help me out. I understand where we the Riech stand right now, but Im not sure on Edicts, I have read I second Edit etc etc. How do I know what all these Edicts are, and...

Edicts only last between Diets (10 turns), so forget about past ones. All you need to focus on are the new Edicts (numbered 4.x) being proposed in the Diet deliberations thread. Each edict needs two seconders to be put to the vote; say "I second Edict 4.x" if you support it and it does not have two seconders. You are free to propose new edicts and to argue for or against other people's edicts. All this should be done in the Diet deliberations thread.


I dont mean to whine, but it is really confusing to know what sections in the forum I am to be reading, There all mixed up with the MTW2 and RTW boards etc etc

Our threads have the prefix kotr PBM. The key ones are this one and the Diet deliberations. The Chancellor's reports thread keeps you up to date (and is where you post your build queues when you get a settlement to run). The battle reports thread also should be informative. You can write stories in the stories thread. The stickied library tells you who is who, what settlements we control and what edicts are current - but it is only updated every Diet session.

[Bizzair]

Ahh, Thank you.

So shall I start posting then? Or do I have to wait untill I get my own general etc.

[GeneralHankerchief]

No, please start posting now. Many active participants such as Kagemusha and AussieGiant don't have avatars yet but they still contribute greatly. :yes:

[econ21]

Bizzair - you are the Third Elector of Austria. You can post in that capacity now. You will get an avatar in due course and can then choose whether that chap was the Third Elector all along or, if his traits are very different from how you've been roleplaying, you can treat him as a new kid on the block.

[Ituralde]

@econ21

I fully agree with you that this should not be done on a regular basis. But I think in the current situation it would be preferrable to having things autocalced, when there's many players waiting for some action. Of course those capabilities should only be used in defensive battles. I wouldn't want Leopold to go on a grand campaign, while I'm away.

Glad you finally got your system AussieGiant, get it running asap, that's an order! :beam:

[AussieGiant]

Ja Wohl Herr Ituralde

Up and running Team!!

It's a whole new ball game when you can upload the file onto your PC and actually look at what the situation is.

I was also thinking along the same lines as Ituralde. I'll be traveling to Australia for holidays on the 10th of March for 3 weeks. I'm going to be able to stay in touch with the game but not be able to fight battles. I would definitely prefer someone from House Austria to fight the battles than autocalc.

Going to bed now...my machine is just sick. And I mean that in a good way.

[Ignoramus]

Oh, and BTW, there's a new Franconian. I forget what his name is, but he's in Hamburg with Dietrich.

[Jalf]

huzzah! New franconian!

Now if his long lost twin brother would show up, I might get an avatar too :p

[Ignoramus]

I have a bad feeling about the way the edicts are going. I hope they'll work out.

[TevashSzat]

Well, its been a while since i checked the forums. My cable has been down for the past 5 days, the second time the cable line under the lawn broke and I am currently using a above ground line to connect to the cable box away from my house. Well.....I guess I'll start participating now

[ArchdukeEvan]

ah so obviously im new here... ect.ect.

but i saw an "advert" in the other Blacker Forum...

and i was wondering if this was still open

if so i would prefer to be in Austria... but idc if another
is chosen for me :)... but still...

ty and i just went and read through most of the serious
stuff... i like it alot...

PS. the smilys are so much cooler here... lol:balloon2:

[Bizzair]

So how am I doing, ok?

[Bizzair]

and Ignoramus, what do you mean, hope I did everything right and didn't screw something up :embarassed:

[Ignoramus]

No, no, Bizzair, nothings wrong. I was just having an OOC(Out of Character) winge about some the motions that econ21 proposed. It's nothing against you.

Hello, ArchdukeEvan! Welcome to the King of the Romans PBM. Yes, we're always open to new players. I am sure we can put you in the House of Austria, I'll just wait until econ's on again.

[nazgul3]

u still need people to join...lets see do i need to give u a backround..umm i am part of the Huscarls clan...my clanmate baz helps run this forum...i can pretty much beat any computer u throw at me..have beaten HRE conquest twice on vh/vh. Soo if there still room i will join.

[Ignoramus]

There's always plenty of room for anyone willing to play, even if they're complete novices at MTW2.

Welcome, nazgul3.

[nazgul3]

Great!...now what do i do lol

[AussieGiant]

Ituralde, Econ,

Very well done sir's. That story was great.

Do we have a summary of all the Edicts and their status regarding being seconded?

[Ituralde]

A warm welcome to all the new faces!

There's always room for more, although it may take some time until you get an avatar.
The new Franconian is named Jonas something and is pious and loyal. I remembered the first name, cause that's my name also, what coincidence. :2thumbsup:

When will the Chancellor report be up Ignoramus?
Also I'm awaiting the, if any, allocation of settlements from our dear Kaiser, as no one took heed to my Charter Amendment. :beam:

Cheers!

Ituralde

[econ21]

Welcome, ArchdukeEvan and nazgul3. :2thumbsup:

AchdukeEvan can be the 5th Elector of Austria. nazgul3 - you need to choose your House. They are Austria (east), Swabia (west), Franconia (north) or Bavaria (south). Which you chose is not really important - it is more a roleplaying thing - but if you are indifferent Bavaria has one less player than the others based on this table:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=77311

Our new avatar is Jonas von Mahren. He is Dietrich's adopted son and 24 years old. By rights, he goes to Zomby_woof but we haven't heard from him for a while. I've PMd him. He can have him if he posts here or votes in the polls on Sunday, otherwise he goes to Jalf.

I'll try to make a list of motions and seconders, but today is busy and it may have to wait until this evening.

[Ignoramus]

My Chancellor report will be up tomorrow. I'm sorry about the delay.

[econ21]

GH - please can you assign any new settlements to Houses if you wish to do so? Dukes and Counts - we should start posting build queues for our settlements so Ignoramus can start play promptly on Monday.

Anyone want to create a Kotr signature? Something like the now defunct wots one I have?

[ArchdukeEvan]

och... thank you :)

ill start asap... though i belvie there are some
conflicts with schooling here... its no matter

yay Austria!

[TinCow]

I will have a short time this evening (EST) to update the Library. I will try to get the general map sections updated at that time, with the avatar updates done tomorrow morning.

Also, welcome to all the new people! It's great to see some new blood both in KOTR and the Throne Room in general.

[Jalf]

Our new avatar is Jonas von Mahren. He is Dietrich's adopted son and 24 years old. By rights, he goes to Zomby_woof but we haven't heard from him for a while. I've PMd him. He can have him if he posts here or votes in the polls on Sunday, otherwise he goes to Jalf.

Ooh, ooh!
*Sends a ninja death squad to take out Zomby_woof*

:skull:

[nazgul3]

Bavaria sounds good too me. They have good beer lol. Umm my email addies are shado282@aol.com or fortheloveofitall@hotmail.com

[Jalf]

By the way, do you need a certain number of posts before you can change your title? Or am I just a fool who can't figure out how to change it? :p

[Jalf]

Ahem, I guess I could ask the same for editing posts... I've seen other posts with an "edited by..." stamp, but I'll be damned if I can figure out how to do it with my own posts... I'm guessing it depends on post count or something similar? :p

Anyway, do charter amendments work the same way as edicts? (As in, they have to be seconded by two people and then voted on and all that)

[nazgul3]

Well umm i gave to email and stuff..now what i am too do?..

[GeneralHankerchief]

Welcome nazgul3! I suggest you familiarize yourself with the current situation (basically, read the threads marked KotR) and whenever you're ready, post in the Diet deliberations.

Jalf - Once you become a normal member, you get the shiny edit button and get to customize your title. Charter amendments require a 2/3 margin to pass.

econ - Certainly, will do later tonight.

[Jalf]

Oooh, shiny buttons... And normal memberness is determined by post count? :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

And normal memberness is determined by post count? :)

Heh, nice try. :tongue: It's determined by whether you make solid contributions. Shouldn't be long now.

[econ21]

Nazgul3 is now 5th Elector of Bavaria. :bow:

[Jalf]

Heh, nice try. :tongue:

Lol, you see right through me :laugh4:

[ArchdukeEvan]

kk... so i have a question bout the clocks on here...

Military time... but set from what region?...
bc its like 22oclock on this...:dizzy2:

[Ituralde]

Welcome ArchdukeEvan to the House of Austria!

Due to current situations I have been wondering if it's even possible to oppose Imperial Dealings. :beam: The only thing I've come up with that lies under my jurisdiction would be to lower the taxes in all settlements Austria controls. It's a little bit lacking though.
"We will deny you by only sending 85% of our taxes from now on!" :2thumbsup:

So, if anyone has any advice how a situation like this could be represented with our current rules, let me know. Let's add some internal strife to our external ones. Oh and to the WotS veterans: This is in no way anything close to a civil war. I'm just trying to portray a disgruntled servant that does not want to obey his lieges commands. :yes:

[econ21]

I'm getting a little concerned at the state of the House of Franconia - they now have four generals, but with Lucjan being absent as their Head, are not making much use of them. This could be important with war now having broken out with Poland. Before, I proposed Fredericus von Hamburg (FLYdude) act as Steward. Perhaps he would like to appoint Gunther von Kastilien (Dutch_guy) as a Count fo one of Franconia's settlements?

In the longer term, we may to think about reassigning avatars - including Dietrich - given that we have active players without them.

[Kagemusha]

I think we could wait a bit for our fellow Franconians.There are few great roleplayers among our Franconian players. I have been thinking about the replacement of the players that are not able to fight the battles for some reason and maybe we shouldnt let other players take the field,but rather autocalc.This could be our best chance to loose battles. I dont think that little strugling wouldnt hurt the game,it would be kind of shame if we would just win each and every battle.:bow:

[Dutch_guy]

I'm getting a little concerned at the state of the House of Franconia - they now have four generals, but with Lucjan being absent as their Head, are not making much use of them. This could be important with war now having broken out with Poland. Before, I proposed Fredericus von Hamburg (FLYdude) act as Steward. Perhaps he would like to appoint Gunther von Kastilien (Dutch_guy) as a Count fo one of Franconia's settlements?

Sounds good, I've been itching to fight since I got my avatar. How many settlemtens do us Franconians own at the moment, one, two, maybe even three?

I'd have no problem with taking up a settlement at all, I daresay it 'd increase my input in the game by a lot. It's time for Günther to make a difference for the Reich.

:balloon2:

[ArchdukeEvan]

Ty for the welcome...
but wouldnt it be more correct for the Austrians(east) to fight the Polish? considering that they are East of the Empire... Franconia being the northern house would make more sence to push Denmark out on the way... anyway... austria should take out the polish... we are in much need of Generals and towns from the looks of it... :sweatdrop: ... just my nationalist rant... lol

[Dutch_guy]

Ty for the welcome...
but wouldnt it be more correct for the Austrians(east) to fight the Polish? considering that they are East of the Empire... Franconia being the northern house would make more sence to push Denmark out on the way... anyway... austria should take out the polish... we are in much need of Generals and towns from the looks of it... :sweatdrop: ... just my nationalist rant... lol

Well, the House of Franconia would be delighted in helping you out. Not implying that the house of Austria needs any help, of course, but it had to be said. :wink:

:balloon2:

[ArchdukeEvan]

Well, the House of Franconia would be delighted in helping you out. Not implying that the house of Austria needs any help, of course, but it had to be said.

yes well i see... that would be a matter to bring up with someone of more authority i the house... lol... of course if you wish to help then by all means... do so... :laugh4:

[OverKnight]

I'm officially back from my vacation and ready to serve again. I'll take a look at the most recent save and see if I can chip in for at least the last part of the Diet session.

A quick thought about avatar assignments, we might want to reconsider assigning new avatars along family tree lines. The way adoption works, from what I've seen, is the eldest son accumulates adoptees to the limit, then it moves on to the second eldest son, in this case Dietrich, and it might eventually move on to Leopold. This still leaves Austria and especially Bavaria at a disadvantage, at the moment, for avatar slots.

Should we do anything about this? Or grin and bear it?

[AussieGiant]

Welcome back dlain....sorry OverKnight is just not working for me as a name for you :laugh4:

The avatar assignment is as you have explained. It seems a little unfair but I can live with it.

I don't mean to be rude but your in game situation is "up a creek without a paddle", I hope things turn out ok!!

How was the holiday?

[TinCow]

Er... I just went to download the latest save game and update the library and it seems that the game is at 1130AD, which is 5 turns into the Chancellorship. Shouldn't the mid-term session have been at 1140AD, 10 turns in? Are we going to have 3 interim sessions for this Chancellorship or is it a 10 turn Chancellorship?

[Ituralde]

I guess that should put Duke Leopold out of the game for the duration of my skiing vacation next week! :2thumbsup:

While most of the reasons I'm pushing for an allocation of settlements for Austria are indeed IC, I do have some OOC reasons too, and must say that I as a player am also a little unhappy with the recent events.
It is a matter of personal taste for me, that I just don't like this rigid allocation of settlements via North, East, South and West. I would prefer it much more if the territories of the Dukes were at least a little bit more scattered. The neatness of it all just drives me up the walls. :yes:
You also have to consider OOC as well as IC that the Italian lands are far richer and popolous than most other lands surrounding the HRE. They just plain generate more income and grow faster. It's only natural that the House of Austria wants its share of that rich cake. It's just a little frustrating that there's little I can do within the boundaries of the game to change that situation.

So just a little frustration venting here from me, before I go on vacation. Just think about it and tell me what you think. Maybe I'll see it more relaxed once I had my time-out. And of course this should not be taken personal by any of you. It's just a game after all and I'm stating a complaint I have about the game. Nothing more. :beam:

[econ21]

Er... I just went to download the latest save game and update the library and it seems that the game is at 1130AD, which is 5 turns into the Chancellorship. Shouldn't the mid-term session have been at 1140AD, 10 turns in?

I had planned Ignoramus would do a 10 turn stint as Chancellor. He called a mid-term session and given the requests for an emergency session, it seemed appropriate. We might review whether we need mid-terms for 10 turn Chancellorships but this time round quite a lot is going on that we can discuss.

I know it puts more of a burden on the library, but we can update it just every full session if you like. Everyone should be able to download the saves and check things out for themselves.

[TinCow]

The time updating the library isn't really my concern so much as consistency and graphics overload. I would like to keep the Bio info, map history, etc. on a consistent 10 turn period. That way it's logical to read over. Plus, the Bios will get REALLY long if I start doing 5 turn updates. So, I'll skip those and do a general status update of the world map and other temporary things which don't remain in the Library long-term. I will also make a list of the influence bonuses from stats for the purposes of voting and post that in here to save time.

[econ21]

While most of the reasons I'm pushing for an allocation of settlements for Austria are indeed IC, I do have some OOC reasons too, and must say that I as a player am also a little unhappy with the recent events.
It is a matter of personal taste for me, that I just don't like this rigid allocation of settlements via North, East, South and West. I would prefer it much more if the territories of the Dukes were at least a little bit more scattered. The neatness of it all just drives me up the walls. :yes:
You also have to consider OOC as well as IC that the Italian lands are far richer and popolous than most other lands surrounding the HRE. They just plain generate more income and grow faster. It's only natural that the House of Austria wants its share of that rich cake.

Maybe I am being too reductive, but I think the allocation of settlements only really matters when we have enough Counts to govern them (and get the bonus vote for doing so). The wealth of provinces is an IC consideration, IMO, as it doesn't really affect the House.

Prinz Henry has said he won't be bound by the geographic neatness, but Kaiser Heinrich has made an oath that he will. Pushing him into a corner on that is probably unhelpful.


It's just a little frustrating that there's little I can do within the boundaries of the game to change that situation.

The Emperor in this respect is more like a referee than a player. You can protest his decision, but co-operating and trying to play the game is likely to be more productive. I kind of see him acting as a sort of King Lear, with the Dukes as his daughters. "Nothing will come of nothing."


A quick thought about avatar assignments, we might want to reconsider assigning new avatars along family tree lines. The way adoption works, from what I've seen, is the eldest son accumulates adoptees to the limit, then it moves on to the second eldest son, in this case Dietrich, and it might eventually move on to Leopold. This still leaves Austria and especially Bavaria at a disadvantage, at the moment, for avatar slots.

Should we do anything about this? Or grin and bear it?

Avatar assignment is much more of a concern to me than settlement assignment. Managing a build queue is so much less important than having an avatar to call your own. What can we do? I want to keep the family tree line = House assignment. Perhaps the Chancellor should decline any further Franconian adoptions for a while?

[Bizzair]

Where do we vote on the Edicts?

[Kagemusha]

Where do we vote on the Edicts?

Hi Bizzair! Econ21 will put up the polls here in throne room,once the time comes.:yes:

[TinCow]

Here are the 1130AD influence bonuses from stats:
Fredericus von Hamburg - 0
Jonas von Mahren - 1 (loyalty)
Dietrich von Saxony - 2 (general points + loyalty)
Gunther von Kastilien - 0
Maximillian Mandorf - 1 (piety)
Leopold - 0
Sigismund der Stoltze - 2 (general points + loyalty)
Hnery - 0
Heinrich - 4 authority
Otto von Kassel - 0

Also, from looking at the battle reports, it looks like there are some battles which I cant find stats from. Can those be posted so I can update the avatars' battle stats?

[AussieGiant]

For me provinces are only an IC thing and until there are avatars then not an issue at all.

I'm more interested in determining if dlain's idea about character allocation is true...if it is then we better adopt as many as possible to fill up the remaining slots so the next house can get some.

That or Leopold needs to start having son's!! :)

[Jalf]

Wow, I look away for a day, and all sorts of discussions crop up.

Well, let's see what I can add:
1: Avatars and absent players: I agree with whoever said above that we should just autocalc those battles. Sure, it sucks for those of us who don't have an avatar, but it's an excellent opportunity to introduce a few losses into our track record. Otherwise we'll be able to keep going forever, always pushing the other factions and basically being able to hold our own with a general and 8 wounded peasants... ;)

2: Settlement allocation: How about the fairly simple system that the conquerer's house gets the faction? If, for some reason, the Diet sent a Franconian to take Venice, Venice would belong to Franconia by default (Of course, the houses may be able to trade internally, or it might be simpler for Franconia to just give it away to one of the other houses) It would at least get rid of the "perfect organization" with Franconian 100% north, Swabia 100% west and so on. It would also be a bit more unpredictable because obviously, coincidence and "whoever is nearest and has a few troops with him" will generally determine who gets to conquer the settlement.

3: Diet votes and influence: Two (two and a half) thoughts here. First, the current system seems overly complicated for no real benefit. Second, there's no real reason in the voting system for houses to stick together internally.
And finally (the half thought) I'm aware that I haven't yet voted and are ranked pretty much at the bottom, so I just "don't get it" ;)

So how about a system that simply allocates votes to a house as a whole based on how much land it owns? (If Austria has 5 regions, they get 5 votes by default), which they (or maybe their Duke) can decide how to allocate (could be evenly split between the players, so if there are 4 austrian players, they'd get 1.25 votes each), or they could be distributed based on rank or something. A few extra votes could be allocated based on rank as well, but I'd try to keep that simple. Of course, emperor, chansellor, dukes, counts would probably get one or two extra votes)
Could be a way to both force the houses to act more as a common entity that at least sticks together internally, and it would fuel the competition between houses (If we can invent an excuse to take a few Polish settlements before Austria gets there, it means more power and more votes to Franconia. A temporary deafness to the chansellor's commands might just be worthwhile for the power-hungry duke then ;))

And as an aside, am I the only one who wish civil war and rebellion like in the original MTW was possible? That would have been great fun :)

Edit: Oops, apparently I can't count... Also yay, I can edit! :)

[econ21]

Edit: Oops, apparently I can't count... Also yay, I can edit! :)

All players should now be full members. It would be good if you set your title to be your kotr name, e.g. "5th elector of Austria" or whatever. That way it is easy to address you appropriately in the Diet. To do that, go to the "User CP" option on the top right of your Org screen, then choose "edit profile" and put your title in the "custom user title" entry.

You should also be able to pick M2TW portraits (avatars), which will be particularly useful when you get allocated an in-character general and can pick his portrait.

[ArchdukeEvan]

so uh... sry about breaking the "charter" there earlier... i was realy into the role playing there and completly forgot about it...

[AussieGiant]

Voting....

In the end guy's it must be simple. There is going to be a million options available and a million ideas had...but we need to decide and then keep it in place for consistency sake.

Maybe we should have a vote on the voting system?:inquisitive: :wall:

[ArchdukeEvan]

concerning voting... how does one cast a vote?... is it a Yes/No thing in a seprate thread or is it in the Diet itself? do you go through your Duke?... or what? ~:confused:

[GeneralHankerchief]

econ will post a poll (in a separate thread) with all the seconded motions on it. You simply check the box marking "yes" or "no" for each motion.

[econ21]

Just to say the Steward of Franconia, Fredericus von Hamburg (FLYdude), has made Gunther von Kastilien (Dutch_guy), Count of Stettin.

[Ituralde]

I'm off for the next week! Skiing!
See you next Saturday, don't get excommunicated! :beam:
AussieGiant will fight defensive battles for me, and I guess Leopold won't be up for anything else in the future.

Cheers!

Ituralde

[OverKnight]

Have fun! We'll try to have Austria in one piece for you when you get back.

[AussieGiant]

Reporting for "stand-in" duty sir!! :)

I'm sure there will be something left to govern once you are back :)

[nazgul3]

@bizzair

thanks for pointing out my mistake...it was actually a typo..i meant to have said would support provided blah blah blah...which makes more sense..i read it over but never caught it.

[Bizzair]

lol np.. Im not actually angry at you, I was just playing the Character :)

[nazgul3]

i know lol :beam: :beam:

[OverKnight]

I have a couple of questions regarding edicts.

First, since this is a mid-term Diet, are edicts passed in the third Diet still in effect?

Second, if the above is true, if an edict passes in this Diet what would occur if it conflicts with an edict passed in the last Diet? I'm thinking of the following edicts:

Edict 3.8: Milan is to be crushed by an offensive campaign, one that does not wait for Papal opinion or any other outside factor to strike. Kaiser Heinrich is to have a major role in this campaign.

Edict 4.1: The Empire will refrain from any action against Milan that will violate the Pope's order and risk excommunication.

Would the one that receives the greatest percentage of the vote take precedence (might be tough to judge since we'll have a different amount of voters), or does the latest take precedence?

What do our venerable elders say?

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm assuming that the latter edict takes precedence.

In any case, I have final say on the matter and the Kaiser's opinion is that we hold back for now. Milan has been crippled, and the circumstances have changed.

[econ21]

First, since this is a mid-term Diet, are edicts passed in the third Diet still in effect?

No, I think the idea was that edicts only last for the period until the next Diet. That way we don't have to remember too much stuff. I am not sure we are going to have a Diet every 5 turns though - it seems excessive. To be honest, until TinCow pointed it out, I thought Ignoramus had done 10 turns. But given how much has happened in the last 5 turns and the influx of new players, a mid-term was timely.

This is a memo item for myself - bonus votes:

Stats bonus + extras for rank

Fredericus von Hamburg (FLYdude)- 0 + 2 (Steward) = 2
Jonas von Mahren (?) - 1 (loyalty) = 1
Dietrich von Saxony (Lucjan)- 2 (general points + loyalty) + 2 (Duke) = 4
Gunther von Kastilien (Dutch_guy - 0 + 1 (Count) =1
Maximillian Mandorf (TinCow) - 1 (piety) + 2 (Steward) = 3
Leopold (Ituralde)- 0 + 2 (Duke) = 2
Sigismund der Stoltze (Ignoramus) - 2 (general points + loyalty) + 2 (Count, Chancellor) = 4
Henry (econ21- 0 + 3 (Duke, Prince) = 3
Heinrich (GH)- 4 authority = 4
Otto von Kassel (Overknight)- 0 + 1 (Count) = 1

[Ignoramus]

TinCow: I'll put up all the battle results of my term so far. There has only been one major victory(ironically, there were no casaulties on either side).

I'm sorry about my absence yesterday. I'm not online on Sundays.

[econ21]

It looks like Lucjan and Zomby_woof are not going to vote, so I am taking them off the play list for now. They are welcome to re-join whenever they like. But this means that Jalf is assigned Jonas von Mahren as his avatar.

I also think the time is right to re-assign Dietrich. I know Lucjan invested a lot of time role-playing him, but from private communication, he does not seem over-enamoured of the avatar. Moreover, with so many new players without avatars and a war with Poland, I can't justify keeping Dietrich without an active assignment. So I am going to assign Dietrich to another player. Any takers?

Bear in mind that Dietrich is a Duke (FLYdude will cease to be a Steward of Franconia if Dietrich becomes active) and can assign Counts. (Jalf - this is part of the glue that holds Houses together - a Duke can give and take away settlements to players; only his eldest natural born son cannot be dispossessed). Dietrich also has some complex backstory that it would be good to continue - he is extremely loyal to the Empire, but has a feud with the Emperor; he is secretly of Polish descent and sympathetic to them, but stands in the path of a Polish invasion. :dizzy: It will be quite a challenge to take him on and ideally I would like a player who can make a substantial long term commitment. This offer is open to players in all Houses - forget your current role and start a fresh. I will hold the offer open for 24 hours and then make a decision among any contenders.

BTW, Franconia now has no avatarless players. I propose that the Chancellor not accept any adoptions or son-in-laws in this House until that situation changes. I don't want one House to suck up all the generals if we can avoid it - it will ruin the delicate internal balance of the Empire we are trying to maintain.

[Ignoramus]

Interesting, I wondered what Dietrich's "secret background" was.

Anyway, I will refuse futher Franconian generals, but it is alarming that we aren't getting any others.

I agree that Dietrich needs to be reassigned. It's a shame about Lucjan, but it has to be done. We can't afford to have an inactive Duke.

[AussieGiant]

I agree that even Mid-tyerm Diet sessions should overrule any other edicts from pervious diet session. If we don't do that we will all have dizzy heads trying to keep up.

That's a little unfortuntate about Lucjan, but Ignoramus is right, we can't have an inactive Duke.

On the avatar side, things do seem a little out of whack. I hope the refusal of new avatars by Franconia will trickle over to the other Houses.

[Jalf]

Well, if Franconia keep spawning new generals, we could always orchestrate an internal split in Franconia, and create a new house out of half the Franconians. ;)
Shouldn't be too hard to come up with an IC reason for such a divide... There are plenty of personal conflicts in the empire to pick from ;)
Hell, Dietrich himself is probably controversial enough that he could be the cause (half the Franconians continue to follow him, the other half is more pro-Kaiser)

(I'm not suggesting we do anything like that now, just that in the long term, if this is where generals keep popping up, a solution could be to just divide the house into two)

About taking over Dietrich (yeah, I know I just got another avatar), I'd better pass. Would definitely be a fun character to play, but I'm not sure I'm up to the task (I definitely plan to stick around for the long term, but I'm going to be pretty busy throughout March, so might be a bad idea to play such a high-profile character just now)

Oh, Jonas is adopted by Dietrich, right? Don't have the game installed at work, so can't check for myself, and the family tree in the library doesn't seem to be updated yet.
Would be nice to know my background ;)

By the way, I plan to make Jonas a distinct character and ditch the ole' fifth elector... ;)
He was much too angry and impatient to make it big in the world... And I figure a guy called Jonas sounds like he'd have a slightly brighter outlook and a sense of humour :)
(And according to his stats, he's much more religious than the Elector, but I have still to figure out what I'm going to make of that... Could be a closet Pope-follower, maybe? ;))

[econ21]

One complication for the Franconians is the requirement that a knight earn his spurs - to command an army, a general must first be a knight. To be a knight, a general must first distinguish himself in battle. Dietrich is an army commander, so he could take along some of the other Franconian generals to get the required experience against the Poles. Or they could see action in another front. But they can't command in battle from the word go.

[TinCow]

I thought edicts lasted until the end of the Chancellorship, not just until the next Diet session. A lot of the Edicts that Heinrich had to fulfill couldn't possibly have been achieved in 10 turns. I know that in WOTS, motions were originally permanent until completed or nullified. We then changed the system so that they ceased to be effective after a new election. When did we change the KOTR rules to make it even shorter?

[AussieGiant]

TC!!

Bloody Brilliant story. Do you write in any capacity other than recreation?

We should stick with the avatar advancement process Econ outlines.

We should at least have some restrictions. Dietrich better take a few young lads and send em head first into a few Polish companies pronto!!

If he doesn't he is going to have the most powerful cavalry assembled in the entire world.

[TinCow]

Well, I write for a living... but it's soulless legal writing that would make my 9th grade English teacher's head explode. Someday I plan on writing non-fiction though.

The hillarious thing about that story is that I had started to write a completely different one. Let's just say it dealt with Otterbach's promotion to Cardinal in a rather more vulgar fashion. However, when I saw the Hildegard retinue figure and looked her up, I realized there was absolutely no way to do that and justify having her as a 'follower,' so I started over from scratch. It's pretty ironic that Max picked up a proponent of chastity, but it'll make for interesting character development.

[OverKnight]

Good story, TC. The thought that Maximillian is truly set on the path of righteousness, as he sees it, makes him more terrifying than when he was a lecher with religious delusions.

As for edicts here's the relevant stuff I dug out of the FAQ:

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.

So did we call an emergency session? If we did, do the edicts passed supplant those voted in 5 turns ago? I can understand why we had a Diet session, new players and Papal issues, but I'm looking for some clarification of the rules.

Also something else in the FAQ, under game settings:

Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Jerusalem).

As we've discussed, we actually have to take Rome not Jerusalem, I just don't want to confuse the new players.

And since I'm nitpicking anyway :laugh4: I think Otto won a major victory at Bern, more than 7+ units. I think Ignoramus brought it up and it was discussed but the table was never updated. No worries, just thought I mention it.

Edit: Ignoramus, when you mentioned generals with loyalty issues in the Diet, was that an IC way of addressing the fact that Dietrich doesn't have a player at the moment and it wouldn't be wise to use him in combat? It looks like the comment may have caused some unintended offense to some of our electors. :whip:

[econ21]

Thanks, I've now corrected the Jerusalem Rome objective. On the last Diet, as I said, I goofed - I thought we were 10 turns in until Tincow spotted it (he also spotted the Rome not Jerusalem point). I think we should just let the 3rd Diet edicts lapse, as GH said, but from this point on stick to 10 turn Diets. If we also stick to 10 turn Chancellorships, as I think might be safest, there should not be a problem.

On the 7 unit victories, we do need to keep track of these. Only the army commanders and the Chancellor are privy to this, so they need to tell me so I can put it in the Playlist table - so far, I am assuming I should assign one each to Otto and Sigismund.

[Jalf]

Edit: Ignoramus, when you mentioned generals with loyalty issues in the Diet, was that an IC way of addressing the fact that Dietrich doesn't have a player at the moment and it wouldn't be wise to use him in combat? It looks like the comment may have caused some unintended offense to some of our electors. :whip:
Bah, you don't get to rule a major medieval nation without being a bit of a bastard... :2thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

So econ if I'm understanding correctly. . .

Ignoramus plays five more turns (10 years). His term is over. We proceed into the next Diet for elections and new edicts. After that we won't have a Diet for 10 turns (20 years).

Correct?

Edit: That's true Jalf, but if you're going to be a bastard it should be intentional. :laugh4:

[Dutch_guy]

One complication for the Franconians is the requirement that a knight earn his spurs - to command an army, a general must first be a knight. To be a knight, a general must first distinguish himself in battle. Dietrich is an army commander, so he could take along some of the other Franconian generals to get the required experience against the Poles. Or they could see action in another front. But they can't command in battle from the word go.

Which basically makes it impossible for FLYdude and myself to command an army, since Lucjan has left this PBM for a while. Meaning all the battles with his avatar, FLYdude's and mine, are to be auto resolved. Not exactly the way I'd like to earn my spurs.

So there's no way around this then ?

:balloon2:

[TinCow]

Well, Max is still in Nuremburg, which is pretty close to the action. He could be sent up and lead one battle with the Franconian avatars in his army, then pack up and head back south to leave the rest of the war to the northerners.

[OverKnight]

Or we could assume that since Fredericus (FLYdude) is a Steward that he's been knighted. I'm not sure if a squire would be appointed to such a high post.

It's a bit gimmicky but I'm not sure if anyone will want to fill Lucjan's big shoes as Dietrich. This would allow for the least disruption.

[Jalf]

TinCow Well, Max is still in Nuremburg, which is pretty close to the action. He could be sent up and lead one battle with the Franconian avatars in his army, then pack up and head back south to leave the rest of the war to the northerners.
That sounds a bit forced, tbh... ;)

Alternatively, we could just make an exception from the rules. I mean, they're there to make the game fun. if they get in the way of that, why shouldn't we bend them a bit? ;)

If there are no knighted Franconian generals when Franconia gets invaded, it seems to me that the logical thing to do would be to improvise. The Diet could just find a few handy nobles (OOC: the ones who have un-knighted avatars), and give them temporary command over the northern garrisons.

They don't have to be made knights, but simply assigned as "acting generals" or some such temporary title. (and of course all you "proper" generals can whinge IC in the Diet about the impending doom as these unproven leaders of peasants will surely lose all the cities of the north ;))
IC, the story could simply be that the Diet/the Chancellor/the Kaiser doesn't trust the only knighted general of the North, so while the South is still in a turmoil and occupies the attention of the remaining generals, the local nobles in Franconia are ordered to try to organize a defense and hold the line until proper generals and troops can be sent to take over)

Then the acting generals get to fight the most urgent battles (city defenses, for example, while others may still be autoresolved), and once they've distinguished themselves, they can get the proper knighthood and become "real" generals.

To make it more plausible, they could be given command of peasant/militia troops only, since they (we) are unproven, and more skilled troops will only follow a proper knight. The remaining troops (if we even have any better troops in the north) could withdraw further into the country, maybe assembling in the capital.

Just tossing out some ideas to get the ball rolling. It'd be silly to have three players forced to autoresolve a bunch of battles because one player is missing.

[ArchdukeEvan]

lol... idk bout Dietrich... but some Austrians would be nice... :yes:

anyway... im REALLY busy this week with doing sound on the School play... and idk how much i can be here... i made my excuses in the Deit already... so have fun... and hopeful get me a general..:beam:

talk at ya later

[Ignoramus]

I could command a battle with some of the Franconians. I command Dietrich until at least one of the other Franconians are knighted. Then there'll be not problem.

[AussieGiant]

I could command a battle with some of the Franconians. I command Dietrich until at least one of the other Franconians are knighted. Then there'll be not problem.

Sounds like a plan Ignoramus. Lets do that.

[Bizzair]

Umm up for anything, I still have some learning to do with this game, but Im sure Im up for anything, I rather not be Dietrich as I am new, and don't know that much as it is, I will learn from experince and being corrected.

But I wanna fight some battles :D :furious3:

~:cheers:

[econ21]

Nobody wants to take on Dietrich? He looks to me like one of the best avatars, in terms of stats and traits. Plus he heads a House and has the highest influence. And not only do you get an avatar immediately, it sounds like you get a battle pretty soon too.

If no one takes him, I'm inclined to stick with rules which means going with TinCow's idea - let the House of Bavaria teach the young Franconians how to fight. Only problem is, based on the last time he did that, it will be "tough love" at best. :sweatdrop:


Ignoramus plays five more turns (10 years). His term is over. We proceed into the next Diet for elections and new edicts. After that we won't have a Diet for 10 turns (20 years).

Yes, I think that's best.

[Bizzair]

Well I would love to take him, but as I stated, I am afraid to make a mistake, as I am still new I do not quite understand the whole shabang of the game,

If someone could outline to me what exactly are his objectives, and what his job entails I may take him if needed.

[econ21]

OK, Bizzair, we both posted at the same time. To be honest, I have not got a clue what Dietrich's motives are. I believe the most we had were some enigmatic stories:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1404700&postcount=6

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1416570&postcount=8

FLYdude surmised out of character that Dietrich secretly had a Polish merchant father and Lucjan intimated that this was not too wide of the mark. But you'd have to be careful role-playing this, as Dietrich's loyalty stat is sky high - he can't be a Polish spy or something.

What's involved in being a Duke is primarily making people Counts. When the Emperor gives you a settlement, you can give it to a member of your House and make them a Count, giving them +1 vote. You can also take it away unless they are your first-born son if they annoy you too much. You should try to use this power to keep your House in line and promote its interests. You will probably also want to help your people become knights - give them a chance to do great deeds in battle (screenshots required!), eg under your command, so they are eligible to command and eventually become Fieldmarshals with their own standing armies.

[Kagemusha]

Well if others dont want poor Dietrich,i can take him as my character.:bow:Edit: Ofcourse Bizzair,you can have him if you want,sorry didnt read all the posts before posting my reply.

[Dutch_guy]

Well, Max is still in Nuremburg, which is pretty close to the action. He could be sent up and lead one battle with the Franconian avatars in his army, then pack up and head back south to leave the rest of the war to the northerners.

If we were to solve this strictly by the rules, then this is the best way to go.

Alternatively, Jalf's suggestions - while not strictly by the book - would probably fit best in the game, a bit of improvisation wouldn't hurt I'd say. Plus, the idea of a lowly nobleman saving the northern realm sounds quite promising.

:balloon2:

[econ21]

Well, it sounds like we have two players willing to take up Dietrich, so the problem of the three Franconian "squires" is solved.

I'll hold the offer of Dietrich open until tomorrow morning to provide the 24 hour window I mentioned. If we have more contenders, I'll find a way to choose one. If not, it looks like Dietrich is yours if you want him, Bizzair; otherwise, I will assign him to Kagemusha if you are having second thoughts.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I have to warn to whoever ends up with Dietrich is that you will have a serious role-playing crush for the time being - mainly the Kaiser (as well as, I believe, a good chunk of the Diet) will not take him seriously or even show hostility to him for a while.

[Kagemusha]

I have to warn to whoever ends up with Dietrich is that you will have a serious role-playing crush for the time being - mainly the Kaiser (as well as, I believe, a good chunk of the Diet) will not take him seriously or even show hostility to him for a while.

Suits me just fine.He still has his own house to back him up. There should in my wiew be some drift between the North and South German Electorates anyway.If i get him il try to keep him as the character Lucjan created him.Altough i think he might have learned some lessons after his tour building watchtowers around the Reich.:laugh4:

[Bizzair]

KAgemusha, you can have him m8, I rather work my way to my own general, and earn my own stats etc so I can say thats me! :P

and I don't think I have the neccessary skills yet, not to role play the character, but to allocate provinces to knights, and counts etc and all the other stuff econ said :P so he's all your Kagemush! ~:cheers:

[econ21]

OK, Kagemusha: it's farewell, Third Elector of Swabia - long live, Duke Dietrich! I am glad you are taking this on - it's appropriate given your concern with the war with Poland in the last Diet and you've been reliably active with this PBM. I suggest you keep Frankfurt as your base and perhaps reward your Steward, Fredericus von Hamburg (FLYdude), by making him a Count of oh, I don't know where? ~;)

I am intrigued by Lucjan's story of Dietrich's Polish connection and conspiring. You don't have to continue it and it's not obvious how it could be resolved given Poland's declaring war on us and Dietrich's sky-high loyalty. One idea is that Dietrich was conspiring with Polish mercantile interests to bring the HRE and Poland closer together, but Polish warmongers have wrecked his plans. He may even be a kind of exile, who will now work to return home in position of power - perhaps extending the House of Franconia to cover a Grand Duchy of Poland. I have images of Lt Worf in Star Trek when he was caught up in civil war in the Klingon Empire or perhaps even Hitler & the Anschluss.

[Jalf]

yeah, he's definitely an interesting character... I'm looking forward to finding out where he's been these past few years... (Exile? Forced or self-imposed? Scheming with his polish connections? Or just too busy building watchtowers? :D)

Depending on how you play it, he might also cause some dissent within the house Franconia. Some nobles there may be a bit upset that he forced a schism between Franconia and the Kaiser, or that he neglected the Diet and imperial politics for so long, leaving Franconia paralyzed...

Plenty of opportunities here... Should be fun :D

That said, I have a feeling Jonas is going to prove himself to be a hopeless optimist, so don't expect him to start any fights with the newly returned Duke... ;)
At least not yet. When he's earned a few scars, and some more characteristic traits, we'll see what happens... :D

In any case, good luck with it, Kagemusha. I have a feeling you'll fit the role nicely.

[TevashSzat]

econ21 could you make a list of everyone who is active and what house they are in as well as if they have an avatar or not? I couldn't find anything like that in any threads.

[OverKnight]

Check out the first post of the Chancellor's and Governor's reports thread. Econ does a good job of keeping that current. Should be what you're looking for.

[TevashSzat]

Thank you. I swore that I looked everywhere for something like that

[OverKnight]

I don't know what's more absurd, being besieged by one unit of crossbowmen, or having them assault me. :dizzy2:

I guess they can't all be glorious battles. :laugh4:

[Ignoramus]

I know. I hate battles like this. They waste time. Anyway, after all this you better win.

[OverKnight]

Don't worry mein Chancellor, I'm planning on killing them all for daring to waste our time. :whip:

After the assault on Milan and now this I'm really beginning to hate those Pavise Crossbowmen. I can see why the Church tried to ban them.

[Ignoramus]

They certainly make a fine mess of knights. Be careful, we don't want Otto going down with a crossbow bolt in his visor leading the charge.

But a charge with your knights would look rather good.

[OverKnight]

Good story Ignoramus, was that a cooperative with econ21 or your own creation? It gives an interesting view of the relationship between Sigismund and Henry.

I'm afraid I cannot recall any sort of backroom deal between Bavaria and Swabia. :sweatdrop:

[Ignoramus]

It was a cooperative.

I know, I didn't want to presume, but I had to add some flavour to the story, didn't I?

[AussieGiant]

Good story Ignoramus.

The back ground information is filling in nicely across the board for everyone.

[OverKnight]

I played my battle. Save is back up as kotr1134-2. After the battle during Poland's turn to move they attacked Dietrich von Saxony's army.

Looks like you get your baptism by fire Kagemusha, good luck. :2thumbsup:

I'm assuming Kag can play it without Ignoramus taking a look first? This might save some time.

Ignoramus I'll be PMing you a casualty report and I should have my battle report, such as it is, up soon.

[AussieGiant]

Is the Diet session closed?

What are the results?

[OverKnight]

Check out the 4th Diet poll thread to see which edicts passed.

[AussieGiant]

Ignore my post :wall:

[AussieGiant]

hey dlain,

When the next patch comes out can we keep playing our saved games or do you have to start a new campaign?

Dumb question but I have to know.

[TinCow]

The results are always posted in the Poll thread. That's where you can find them the soonest. I also post "in-effect" legislation in the first post of the Library. In reference to this, I have left several of the 3rd session edicts up there, basically the ones that have not been fulfilled, are contingent, or which are worded in such a way that they seem to still apply. Even if we go by the stated rules, which I disagree with, they state that Edicts last for 10 turns. Well... this was a 5 turn Diet session, so even by those rules the 3rd session Edicts still stand.

In the future, I really hope that we change that rule to say that Edicts last until the end of the Chancellor's term, unless the text of the Edict makes them longer or shorter. I'll propose that as an Amendment next session.

[econ21]

I'm assuming Kag can play it without Ignoramus taking a look first? This might save some time.

Yes - it's always good if we can speed up the exchange of savegames.

[OverKnight]

I would assume the patch will be save friendly, the first one was.

However, our group will have to discuss when to implement the patch for KoTR because of game play issues, will 1.2 be compatible with medifix etc. I assume we'll want to take a wait and see approach to the patch before reaching a consensus.

[AussieGiant]

Ok good to know OverKnight.

I can therefore keep playing my new game and not worry about having to start again.

I agree we need to see how 1.2 pans out once released.

[lilirishman1986]

from what i have heard it is compaitble with all modds but you just dont know lol

[Jalf]

I played my battle. Save is back up as kotr1134-2. After the battle during Poland's turn to move they attacked Dietrich von Saxony's army.

Looks like you get your baptism by fire Kagemusha, good luck. :2thumbsup:

I'm assuming Kag can play it without Ignoramus taking a look first? This might save some time.

Ignoramus I'll be PMing you a casualty report and I should have my battle report, such as it is, up soon.
Humm, how does that work? If we're attacked multiple times in the same AI turn, how do you save in between? Am I missing something terribly obvious here, or how do you pull that off?

[OverKnight]

You can save at any time during AI movement or the pre-battle screen.

[Jalf]

oh, never realized that. How handy :D

[Kagemusha]

It was one hell of a a fight.:sweatdrop: The Battle report should be soon up.:smash:

[AussieGiant]

I just loaded up this latest game.

We are in a whole load of trouble.

I can't see us saving Bologna or Florence. Vienna just got sieged again.

I hope no one is using any exploits to win these seemingly impossible fights.

[Ignoramus]

I've only just woken up, and now I hear these predictions of doom. I'll get right on as soon as I can.

[nazgul3]

Even tho i have i am not a major character...can i look at the latest game? And if i can where can i get it? How long for updates of maps..i.e. after edicts?

[GeneralHankerchief]

If you want to look at the latest game, get the game through A filespace for PBM (stickied) --> View Upload Directory. Once there, just scoll down and look for the latest kotr file. Right now it's kotr1134-3.

[Ignoramus]

We have a new avatar. His name is Jobst von Salza. He was promoted on the field of battle after leading an Imperial army to victory, when Captain Theodoricus perished.

He was automatically put under Sigismund's avatar, so that means that Warluster gets him.

Edit: We are in trouble. I doubt I can save Bologna. Hopefully Milan can hold with Prinz Henry's assistance.