View Full Version : WTH - routing at start
The Black Ship
11-11-2000, 13:25
Why would a unit of h1 archers just rout at the beginning of a game? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif Noone was near, and they weren't tired, so why? All I did was ask them to deploy, then bammo- rout city. It really cost me. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
this is happening more often these days, i also lost 1-2 units h1 muskeets that simple say its time to go home and r under no fire at all and they r quite fresh ????? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif
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LinkJun of The Chain Clan
[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 11-11-2000).]
Yeah it seems to happen more often in large games with 4 or more players. It happened to me once and it happened to Elmark in a battle where I was attacking him and his Taisho routed for no reason long before I reached him. The rest of his army fought on for a long time.
Weird.
The Black Ship
11-11-2000, 13:57
Well it really cost me, got my butt whipped by a guy with more ranged units than me because of this flaw (note I didn't say the "B" word). Is it the H1, or does it happen at other levels too?
solypsist
11-12-2000, 00:17
i suppose the first question that needs answering is: what the ### were you doing even marching out with H1 troops in the first place?!
like the old cliche: you get what you pay for.
low koku games for example http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
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LinkJun of The Chain Clan
Zen Blade
11-12-2000, 03:30
well, it hasn't happened to me, but I have heard others talking about it....
-however, I have also noticed the multiplayer recording of comp. battles becoming worse. I have had two battles today, and several last week that just say "battle not completed" when I got a vicotory/defeat sign at the end. The one's today really annoyed me b/c I played several very good games against very good players and whether they won or I won, the winner should get the credit.
-Zen Blade
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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
ShaiHulud
11-12-2000, 03:42
Perhaps this doesn't fit your situation, but...While playing a winter game in which a much larger force was pursuing (as I tried to run out the clock) my YC and YA (both very fresh and in no danger) I clicked on an area near the edge of the enemy side of the map and the battle ended (I lost). I've seen this a few other times, too, so it may be that somewhere in the program is the notion that if you order movement into that nether zone you cannot enter it is considered withdrawal.
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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks
I have encountered this before (particularly when playing as Takeda, trying to avoid being overrun by Mori early on). It seems that it is not always possible to simply run around the map, frustrating your opponent. Sometimes, your troops seem to just give up, even if they have taken no casualties.
This may be a safeguard added by the developers to stop players simply running the clock down by leading the enemy on a little dance across the map.
On the point about units routing for no reason, my personal theory is that it is the result of some obscure thing happening in large multiplayer games. I have only experienced this problem in game of 4 players or more, so this probably affects it somehow.
ShaiHulud
11-12-2000, 07:34
Rob...Interestingly, I was Takeda, avoiding Mori early in the game! If your surmise is accurate, I just wish the AI were NOT allowed to do this, too. It's truly frustrating to attack in winter and watch as the AI sends 4 groups of units in various directions. Seems he KNOWS I'll (1) get exhausted, (2) run out of time. Unfair! LoL
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Wind fells blossoms, rain
fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks
katwomansz
11-12-2000, 11:34
Quote Originally posted by Rob:
I have encountered this before (particularly when playing as Takeda, trying to avoid being overrun by Mori early on). It seems that it is not always possible to simply run around the map, frustrating your opponent. Sometimes, your troops seem to just give up, even if they have taken no casualties.
This may be a safeguard added by the developers to stop players simply running the clock down by leading the enemy on a little dance across the map.
On the point about units routing for no reason, my personal theory is that it is the result of some obscure thing happening in large multiplayer games. I have only experienced this problem in game of 4 players or more, so this probably affects it somehow.[/QUOTE]
I noticed this too when playing as Takeda with all that Calvery that could not be caught on a map I was not allowed to win a battle by simply beating the clock as defender. The men would give up with no one near...maybe they get tired.?
The Black Ship
11-12-2000, 12:30
Yes, yes...(stomps his foot like petulant child)
But what about My problem? Why'd my boys desert me, is it because they lack honor? Or maybe since I was stuck in the edge of the map (big multi game) they saw an opportunity to go AWOL http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
Oh and the Takeda thing, it's all difficulty level dependent. Hard or Expert I get routed playing hide the horsey, normal I don't http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
At low honour troops rout all the time, even when they do not seem to be directly threatened.
Not much of an explanation, but it's the best I can do http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
solypsist
11-12-2000, 13:59
I played a no-timer "camp off" in MP, and after a while, the other guy's archer cav ran off. it had been a while and my men were Quite Tired after doing nothing but standing around all day, so I can nonly imagine it may have something to do with "horse" fatigue or something.....although I have a hard time imagining the designers putting in such a delicate detail when other glaringinly obvious ommissions have been left in the game. So it could be a bug.
I think there may be some kind of 'stand-off' morale penalty, possibly used to prevent these kinds of stand-offs going on forever. Basically the lower honour troops blink first and run. As the battle goes on maybe more and more troops will rout, forcing the players to either attack or wait for their entire army to disappear.
As for 'horse fatigue', surely the fact that units tire at different rates is well known? For example, Heavy Cavalry tire extremely quickly, so I imagine this could apply in this situation.
Alternatively, perhaps they remembered that they left the oven on http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
sorry to say i had my h1 guns run before the h0 guns wich where even in front of the h1so that theory is not correct http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
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LinkJun of The Chain Clan
Yabusama
11-13-2000, 17:11
As to why some units just rout off in to the distance I might have a suggestion.
If the unit is of low honour, say 1 or 0, then repeatedly showing that units flanks or rear to the enemy will cause them to fill their boots and run like a vipped dog. In one game I played, I used some CA (a unit I dislike) and marched them out to harass the enemy, but the repeated flanking and moving them around infront of the enemy caused them to rout pretty quickly even though they had taken only 1 casulty.
Blackship: "edge of the map" Troops near the edge of the map have restricted maneuvering space and, therefore, suffer a morale penalty. Isn't this so? I'm sure I read this, but can't remember where. Maybe the strategy guide.
The Black Ship
11-14-2000, 05:42
Puzz you win the "most likely, but who really knows" prize for the most reasonable explanation http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
The more I think about it the more I get p*ssed http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/net4/splat.gif I really needed those boys against AMP http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
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