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Innocentius
02-23-2007, 22:09
This is the official "gathered-facts" for the The Republic of Genoa MTW PBM.

The Rules:


The Chancellor: A player who works as the "mod" and who does all the dirty work. The Chancellor will be the one who constructs buildings and recruit troops according to other player's suggestions (see below). The Chancellor also moves troops around. If there is a battle, the Chancellor will send the game (via e-mail, for example) to the player who's character or province is involved (see below) who then plays the battle. The game is then "returned" to the Chancellor who continues as above.
The Chancellor has some power however, and can be a provincial ruler (most likely the capital or whatever big city that is closest to the King's position, for more info see below). The Chancellor is however, different from other Provincial Rulers (refered to as PR's from here on), ruled directly by the Consul and does not have as much power over his own lands as other PR's. The Chancellor's vote counts as two however in any given vote.

The Chancellor can also engineer domestic troubles if he wishes to; i.e. by spending a little extra on himself and his own province, which should likely provoke some disputes. The Chancellor can also engineer civil wars (this is done in-game) by being convinced (perhaps by bribery) by some prince or such to assassinate the King.

The Consul: Then there is the Consul. The Consul is played by another player. The Consul is the one who makes all the final suggestions, but not without the influence of other players (see below). A Consul must be roleplayed (i.e. if the Consul has the vice "irritable", he will not be keen to settle with truces and such, and a Consul who is known for executing prisoners must continue to do so, even it earns him some nasty vices). More than just having the final word in financial matters and politics, the Consul is also responsible for the main army of the kingdom, and must command all larger, offensive, campaigns. Good commander or not. These are the things that the Consul has supreme command of:

1. Marriage of members of the royal house
2. Military campaigns (Crusades included)
3. Handing out of provincial titles (really determined by OOC-discussions and joining lists)
4. Alliances and such

He also has the right to demand a certain amount (and what kind) of units in return for granting provincial titles. In all other matters than the ones mentioned above, votes will be held. The word of the Consul is the weightiest, but if 2/3 or more if the Princes and PR's vote against him he will lose.
When the Consul dies, it will be proclaimed that a new Consul has been elected in Genoa, and there will then be an OOC-vote to determine who gets to play the next Consul.

Princes: Princes must be roleplayed just like the Consul, but are mainly for military purposes. A player chosing to play as a prince must take in regard that he will get to fight a lot. Princes will be "distributed" as generals (they are not roleplayed as heirs to the throne as Genoa is a republic) by the Consul.

Provincial Rulers: A PR is a player who is in command of a province. As we start, there will be no effective rulers of many provinces (i.e. the titles remain idle), but as soon as a scripted hero or general with at least one star appear he can be given the title from the Consul. That doesn't mean you have to wait to play as a RP, you'll just have no true avatar untill a suitable one appears.
If you are new to the PBM and have only recently been given a newly conquered province, you'll have "first dibs" on whatever sutiable general that will appear. There will also be a joining que for the players. As we will play with green generals, a PR is always encouraged to recruit new troops in the hunt for a suitable successor to the current titleholder.
As an RP you are responsible to the Consul, and must be able to muster the requested amount of troops in the time of need. Also, all provinces have their own economy. First of all, your expenses can't surpass your income, but you must also take in regard that 1/10 of your profit goes straight to the Consul. What remains after of your profit after taxation is free for you to use on whatever you wish.
Finally, PR's will also be divided into four main duchys: Genoa, Tuscany, Sardinia and Corsica. Each with their own personal goals and objectives. The Genoans would probably be more friendly with the Consul while the more independent Corsicans would be more unruly. Plotting between these duchies would be encouraged.

Genoans: Really very consul-friendly (they elected him after all...) and will obey, if not blindly, then at least willingly.

Tuscany: More interested in warfare and expansion than the others. No great promoters of trading. Has some in common with the Consul, though not much.

Sardinia: Really wants to mind their own business, though they don't dislike the Consul. Interested in naval expansion, naval warfare and the conquest of naval bases (i.e. islands).

Corsica: The furthest away from Genoa they share pretty much nothing with the Consul and are likely to cause a lot of trouble. Mostly interested in themselves and growing richer from trading.

Please note than none of the above are very historical, it's entirely for gameplay pruposes.

Military: Quite simply, the armies must be kept balanced. Both for the realism of it and to make the game in general more interesting. A core of elite troops surrounded by lesser soldiers will be the model.
For each unit of knights that is trained, two units of retainers have to be trained. As we will be playing as a faction that can use Gothic Knights the retainers will appear as follows:

Early: Knights = Feudal Knights, Retainers = Mounted Sergeants or other light cavalry
High: Knights = Chivalric Knights, Retainers = Feudal Knights
Late: Knights = Gothic Knights, Retainers = Feudal Knights (CK's will fall into a class of their own as 'medium' cavalry)

1. Homelands - I personally have a little problem with Genoese Sailors and Italian Infantry produced in Volga Bulgaria or Ireland. It just feels wrong. So I suggest that we use a list of homelands, where we can build our core troops, and have only region-specific troops built in the other provinces, where possible - for example Jinettes in Spain and Steppe Cavalry in the Steppes. I propose the following homelands: Genoa, Tuscany, Corsica, Sardinia, Savoy, Venice, Milan, Rome, the Papal States, Sicily, Malta, Naples, Tyrolia, and the three islands in the Eastern Mediterranean - from Crete to Cyprus. I also think knightly troops should be allowed for production in the Holy land, in the four provinces that are originally Crusades targets - units such as Feudal Knights and Feudal Men at Arms, but no militia, archers, etc. of course, there Turcopoles should be allowed under the region specific troops rule. I wonder if the Chancellor should mod the game to make Hospitallers, Hospitaller Foot Knights and Order Foot Soldiers trainable with certain building requirements, so that we can build them in the Holy Land.

2. Infantry heavy armies - just expanding on the military rules. The Genoese as Italians should use infantry heavy armies, with plenty of militiamen and spearmen. I think that heavy cavalry should not be allowed at all in early, apart from royal and princely retinues and the Hospitallers that spawn with a Crusade. Heavy cavalry should be allowed only in the Holy land if a crusade is successful, see my previous point, until the High Period. Throughout the entire game the following ratio should be applied - 8 infantry units for each cavalry unit. This ratio should only be applied to the troops produced in the Homelands, regional troops should be excluded. As far as cavalry is concerned, I like the retainers rule.

3. Specific rather than generic troops - let's try to field an army truly Genoese in its character. We can do this by training specific troops instead of generic ones. For example, vanilla archers would not be allowed, and instead Genoese Sailors would need to be trained. Once Italian Infantry becomes available (I think we need to wait until High), then no Chivalric and Feudal Sergeants, and no spearmen. I do not have any problem with militia, haberdiers and mounted sergeants (as long as the cavalry:infantry ratio is observed), but considering that Genoa was a city state, I do not think we should use Feudal troops at all, such as Feudal men at Arms, Knights (especially) and perhaps even Feudal Sergeants. Crossbowmen and arbalesters should be absolutely OK though, and I think Chivalric Men at Arms should be allowed. Later on Pikemen and handgunners should be allowed.

4. Limited mercenaries - this one is tough, but generally, I do not think we should be storming in Naples on turn 3 with an army of Kwarizmian Cavalry and Armenian Infantry. We should probably make a list of allowed mercenaries, such as Bulgarian Brigands, Alans, Longbowmen, Vikings, Turcoman Horse, Almughavars, and all troop types available to our faction. Also, I think in order to recruit mercenaries from far away lands, we would need a ship line to the provinces they come from - for example a ship in the Black Sea for Bulgarian Brigands and Alans. It sounds extremely complicated, but I want to make sure that we do not just make a fortune from trade and then gather a motley army of unbelievable mercs (Camels, Norman Knights, Billmen and some Cuman Heavies) and throw it at our enemies. But mercenaries should be allowed, within the above limits. Please feel free to add any other troop types which were wide spread in Europe as mercenaries.

5. No farming for rebels, no suicidal missions for weak heirs and undesired heroes, no Grand Inquisitors, no attacks on one Catholic faction just to have a free pass for the rest, only one Crusade at a time and a next one built only after the previous is concluded, no spamming of spies, no preparation for the Mongols, no building and raising of farms in Corsica just for the purpose of acquiring builder and steward virtues, generally no cheesy exploits and tactics. Tactical exploits however would have to be allowed, because we cannot make up for a poor AI and besides, we cannot really control what players do in a battle, even if they replay it several times in order to get a favorable outcome.

And then onto who plays what (will be updated and added onto as time goes):

Round 1 (i.e. rule of the first Consul):

Chancellor: Kavhan Isbul - Isbulino Doria of Tuscany

Consul: Warmaster Horus - Gregorio III

House of Genoa:
Warmaster Horus (Consul Gregorio)
Innocentius

House of Tuscany:
Kavhan Isbul (Chancellor)
Rythmic

House of Sardinia:
gunslinger
Martok

House of Corsica:
Wasp
Warluster

Player joining que:

Ignoramus - n/a
UltraWar - n/a

And if someone could sticky this it'd be very nice:yes:

Wasp
02-23-2007, 22:36
Sign me up! Corsica sounds appealing; trade and a bit of nasty politics.

Kavhan Isbul
02-23-2007, 22:41
Great! I would like to be among the heads of one of the houses of nobles, let's call it the Doria family. If any other players want to join my noble house, there shall be plenty of minor and major roles. While I would like to be in control of our initial province, whichever it happens to be, I will gladly relinquish the control over the troops to anyone interested in fighting battles. As soon as we acquire another province, any other player from my team can take control over it.
I have no ambitions to be the Consul and would therefore give up any claims on Genoa. Ideally, I would love to get Tuscany and an initiall 1/4 of the treasurry, or 1000 florints. In return I promise to train and keep 2 units of Urban Militia up by 1100, and 1 unit of Spearmen by 1105. Second to Tuscany I would prefer Sardinia, but since this island is poor, I can only promise a unit of Urban Militia. If a larger grant is made available, I promise to build the necessary structures for the production of galleys and dromons. Each ship built will need to be financed by the Consul, who should also pay for its upkeep. Since the trading income will all be going to Genoa and Tuscany, this is only fair.
And finally, for role playing purposes, I think my house should be Ghibellines, i.e. pro-HRE and anti-Pope.

gunslinger
02-23-2007, 22:46
Please sign me up for whichever of the provinces that no one else wants.
Edit: (Unlike the previous poster I steadfastly refuse to suck up and make promises to the Consul until after we have actually elected one!)

naut
02-24-2007, 00:50
Ok, I'm up for this. Just have to reinstall a fresh copy of XL without any of my tinkering.

EDIT: Fresh install, and I'd prefer to be one of the houses if possible.

Warmaster Horus
02-24-2007, 09:45
Sign me up for Sardinia.
Nice to see this almost up and running.

Innocentius
02-24-2007, 11:04
Yes, all we really need now is a Consul as we have enough players to fill the four houses:yes:

UltraWar
02-24-2007, 13:31
I'll join the House of Genoa :2thumbsup:

Kavhan Isbul
02-24-2007, 22:08
UltraWar, would you like to be the first Consul? Unless you object, I would like to nominate you. :yes:

Innocentius
02-24-2007, 22:21
As this is the first round, whoever gets there first gets to be Consul for round 1. We just need to get this thing started as soon as possible.

UltraWar
02-24-2007, 22:26
I'll be the first Consul if everyone thinks that I would be the best candidate for the job

Warmaster Horus
02-24-2007, 22:36
Why not? Since you're of the House of Genoa, it seems even more believable and realistic that you're Consul, at least at the start.

Innocentius
02-24-2007, 22:40
As no one else has claimed the title this far, UltraWar shall be the first Consul. Discussions for approving provincial titles can be held in the OOC-thread while official nominations and proper political discussions and planning for the first round (round 1.1: 1087-1092) can be held in the Parliament or Story thread:yes:

Kavhan Isbul
02-26-2007, 17:51
I wonder if we are ready to start?

Warmaster Horus
02-26-2007, 19:57
Apparently. What we really need is more publicity, so other people can join us. There's one thread in the Main Hall, but otherwise nothing. Maybe by stickying a thread?

gunslinger
02-26-2007, 20:00
I wait patiently for my assignment. . .

Innocentius
02-27-2007, 14:48
Well, the only thing we really need now is for UltraWar to declare who gets what and then we can get properly started. When everyone has a province or role, political discussions and planning/plotting can start.

Kavhan Isbul
02-27-2007, 18:02
Based on the discussion in the OOC thread, I and Rythmic are a team and we would like to get Tuscany, Wasp wants Corsica and is open to getting a teammate, Gunslinger would like to get Sardinia, and Warmaster Horus is going to be OK with either joining Wasp in his rebellious island, or with getting the first hero, who in all likelihood will be the first heir that matures a few years from the start of the game. So it should be pretty easy for UltraWar to distribute provinces and roles and make everyone happy :2thumbsup:

Innocentius
02-27-2007, 18:59
Yep, but then he also has to figure out what he wants in return from each:juggle2:

Warmaster Horus
03-01-2007, 17:27
BTW what are the settings? XL mod but on Conquest or GA? What unit size?

Kavhan Isbul
03-01-2007, 17:41
BTW what are the settings? XL mod but on Conquest or GA? What unit size?

I have always oreferred the GA mode, because while it allows victory under the same conditions as the Domination mode, it also gives a nice alternative. Unfortunately, I think that in XL the Venetians inherit all the Italian GA goals, with the Genoese only getting points for homelands and conquest.
I suggest we use normal unit sizes for no real reason, but just that they are what most players are used to (ot I am, at least). If however most players want large unit sizes, that is perfectly fine with me.

In the meantime, I sent a PM to UltraWar, but so far he has not been able to respond. I wonder what do we do if someone is unable to respond - with battles we autocalculate, but how about Consul's decisions?

Warmaster Horus
03-01-2007, 17:49
About Consul's decisions, we choose by vote. Create a new thread 'Emergency vote due to Consul's absence'. We could suppose it's just a sickness.
OR the heir can assume temporary leadership of the Republic. It will also permit him to have a preview of what will be required of him later on.
A last possibility is that, at the start of the Consulship, the Consul designates a Co-consul, who will assist him in the necessary manner. Anyone could be Co-consul, and during the leader's absence, will have full powers.

Kavhan Isbul
03-01-2007, 18:00
I think ot should be the heir, as long as he is mature. However, Warmastwer, you as the heir (still in his early teens) will most deffinitely get a vote. I will open a topic in the Parliament.

Martok
03-01-2007, 23:09
While I don't have a working PC right now, I'd still be interested in participating in some way. Perhaps as a member of the House of Sardinia, perhaps? The naval aspects of the Italian city-states has always been of interest to me. ~:)

Kavhan Isbul
03-01-2007, 23:19
Welcome Martok. You can also go in the Trog Parliament thread to vote on a few issues we are debating.

Innocentius
03-01-2007, 23:44
Welcome, Martok~:wave: Sardinia sounds like an excellent choice if you don't have a computer as they are the least likely to get involved in any fighting, at least at start. Later on naval expansion and island conquest will probably dominate their politics.

Ignoramus
03-02-2007, 03:34
I would join, but I've lost my Medieval: Total War CD. So until I can find it or get another one I'll be unable to play.

Innocentius
03-02-2007, 18:06
I would join, but I've lost my Medieval: Total War CD. So until I can find it or get another one I'll be unable to play.

I've signed you up Ignoramus as you don't actually need the game to play .

Both Kavhan Isbul and I have sent PMs to UltraWar but he still hasn't replied. If he does not answer soon we might have to assign a co-consul and get started without him.

Kavhan Isbul
03-02-2007, 20:40
Welcome Ignoramus.

As for the Co-Consul, I am starting to think it will be necessary. Currently Warmaster Horus has not been assigned a role, so perhaps he can assume control until UltraWar returns.

Kavhan Isbul
03-08-2007, 17:19
Innocentius, I have reached an agreement with Wasp to purchase 100 spearmen from him for 50 florints. If you have not played the first 5 turns yet, this makes a little change in my plans - instead of two units of Urban Milita, I would need only one trained at this time.

Wasp
03-09-2007, 18:27
Just a 'confirm' post for the deal, here. 50 florints for 100 spearmen.

Warluster
03-16-2007, 10:00
cAn i join as the house of tuscany?

Kavhan Isbul
03-16-2007, 16:27
cAn i join as the house of tuscany?

The house of Tuscany is currently represented by me and Rythmic. You are welcome to join us, but we might not have a role for you initially, although 50 years into the game, there will be plenty of roles.

Warluster
03-16-2007, 22:29
Actually I meant the House of Corisca

Innocentius
03-20-2007, 17:06
So, from what I understand from the discussions in the OOC-thread:

Kavhan Isbul (Tuscany) will replace me as Chancellor.

Warmaster Horus will keep his role as Prince Gregorio, but will be the effective ruler once he comes of age.

Wasp
03-20-2007, 19:07
Actually I meant the House of Corisca

You're welcome to join my little island, if you want. It's not one of the most exciting provinces, though.

Innocentius
03-20-2007, 23:44
There, I've written my IC-resignation in the Parliament and edited the Library.

Kavhan Isbul: You can PM current info on the Republic (like the current campaignmap) whenever you want and I'll upload them here in the Library as soon as I can.

Innocentius
03-28-2007, 21:58
I signed myself up again as a member of the house of Genoa (causing as little problems as possible as I will be under the will of the Consul that way). Note that this will be a new character (just with the same name untill I can get a general assigned) and not the old "ex" Chancellor.

I also hope we can get a war going so the different goals of the houses can become more obvious and start some conflicts.:juggle2:

Kavhan Isbul
03-29-2007, 00:29
I am glad to see you participating more actively. Perhaps you can take over one of the younger princes - Pietro, or Guido, when the latter matures?

Wasp
03-29-2007, 08:25
That sounds like a good idea to me, Innocentius. If you want, of course.

Innocentius
03-29-2007, 16:06
That sounds like a very reasonable idea. Sign me up (or rather, I'll sign myself up) as Guido.