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TinCow
03-01-2007, 14:43
http://images.vector-images.com/133/g1182_bayern.gif


Duchy of Bavaria

Provinces of Bavaria:
Innsbruck - Fortress
Nuremberg - Large City (Temporarily donated to the Kaiser)
Bologna - Large City (Occupied by Byzantium)
Milan - Huge City
Genoa - Large City
Florence - Huge City (Capital) (Occupied by Byzantium)
Marseilles - Large City (Occupied by France)
Ajaccio - Citadel (Occupied by Sicily)

Bavarian Nobles:
Lothar Steffen - TinCow (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=6193) - Duke of Bavaria
Matthias Steffen - OverKnight (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=21979) - Viceroy of Outremer, Ex-Chancellor, Count of Milan
Friedrich Karolinger - Warmaster Horus (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=22509) - Count of Innsbruck
Fredericus Erlach - Stuperman (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=22105) - Count of Genoa
Hans von Bavaria - vpmd (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=27652)
Hermann Steffen - GeneralHankerchief (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/member.php?u=16104)

Bavarian Ducal Lineage:
1080 AD to 1146 AD - Maximillian Mandorf (Steward)
1146 AD to 1232 AD - Otto von Kassel (Duke)
1232 AD to 1292 AD - Gerhard Steffen (Duke)
1292 AD to 1??? AD - Lothar Steffen (Duke)

Bavarian Household Armies:
Gerhard Steffen Memorial Army - Defending Genoa and Milan - Commanded by Duke Lothar Steffen
Otto von Kassel Memorial Army - Assigned to offensive actions to retake the lost Italian provinces - Commanded by Count Friedrich Karolinger

TinCow
03-01-2007, 14:56
Bavarians! As Steward of the greatest House of the Reich, I greet you!

We have much work to do and much to discuss. Though our hearts certainly remain to the north, in Alps and the bountiful green fields beyond, our future lies in Italy. For some time now, the House of Bavaria has strived to gain control of northern Italy. These are rich provinces, well connected to the most important trading routes of the world. Nuremburg will always remain our capital and cultural center, but we must milk the wealth of Italy if we are to bring prosperity to our House and our people.

Much has already been achieved towards this goal. Since our push for Italian lands began, we have obtained Bolognia and Milan, both considerable successes. However, these successes have remained entirely isolated from the rest of Bavaria and have been rendered largely useless to us by the constant warring with the Italian states.

This must change! Bolognia is currently occupied by Venetian scum. Its liberation must be our highest priority. We must then focus on ensuring that these territories are secure and well-defended, so that the riches of Bavaria will never again be stolen away from us. Following this, we must invest great wealth into developing the trade infrastructure of the Italian provinces. It will be costly in the beginning, but if we construct great ports, markets, and large communal farms, we will reap a wealth beyond anything we have yet seen.

Finally, we must expand further. Italy is Bavaria's future! We must do all in our power to bring Genoa, Florence, and Venice into the fold as soon as possible. With God's blessing, we may one day even control the Holy City itself.

These challenges I set before you, fellow Bavarians. Let us take up the gauntlet!

lilirishman1986
03-01-2007, 19:09
*hoists mug* To Bavaria

nazgul3
03-01-2007, 22:03
Here! Here! Noble sire! also raises glass

GOD WILLS IT!!! GOD WILLS IT!!!! GOD WILLS IT!!!

OverKnight
03-04-2007, 10:46
A simple solution to our troubles in Italy would be to have a crusade called against Venice. In one fell swoop it would solve our manpower issues and lack of Papal favor. However, there is already a Crusade called for Tunis and I doubt, with our current standing with Gregory, the Pope would listen to us.

Is there a way the Reich can have this Crusade against Tunis end early and then have a crusade called for Venice?

I do not see an answer but perhaps one of you has one.

TinCow
03-04-2007, 16:53
That would indeed be an admirable solution. However, it takes many men with a great religious zeal to form a Crusade. Even if the Sicilian Crusade were to end this very day, it would be a decade, perhaps two, before another was able to be launched. By that point, our war with Venice will surely be concluded, one way or another.

lilirishman1986
03-05-2007, 05:47
my dear lords of Bavaria what does our House seek out itself as a goal?

OverKnight
03-05-2007, 05:57
I believe our Steward mentioned some goals in his opening statement. I would sum it up as: A successful conclusion of the war in Northern Italy with Bavaria receiving the lion's share of the former Milanese and Venetian lands. The Italian cities are flushed with money and would add greatly to Bavarian coffers.

(OOC: There's no way of actually funnelling the money into Bavaria's non-existent treasury, but it's good for bragging rights.)

Edit: I agree with these goals. But I also must add that we must pursue our goals in a focused and controlled manner. Denunciations in the Diet might make for good drama, but they are a poor way to add lands to Bavaria as the Kaiser makes the final decision on who receives newly conquered territories.

lilirishman1986
03-05-2007, 07:43
*on an out of character note* in regards to an election of chancellor perhaps we might want to nominate a member of this house and support them to allow for more internal friction and to improve role play of characters

OverKnight
03-05-2007, 08:14
OOC: I get the feeling that the upcoming elections will be contested and that there will already be friction in the storied House of Bavaria without another Bavarian running against Max.

TinCow
03-05-2007, 13:09
From the stories thread, it appears that GH will be running as well, so there will be at least two of us. I wouldn't be surprised if a random Franconian threw his hat in as well.

nazgul3
03-07-2007, 04:36
Well we will have to rally those who are not of those houses to our side but how?

OverKnight
03-07-2007, 05:32
While we tend to think of the Houses as monolithic entities, they are far from it. I'm sure when a foreigner views our Empire, they see it as a unified whole, but they are not privy to the Diet discussions. As there are disagreements among the Duchies that make up the Reich, so it follows that each elector will not move in lock step with his House. Follow the Diet and the discussions among house members and you will see differences in opinion on many issues.

These differences can be used to rally support for a cause or a man.

OOC: By paying attention to the Diet and other threads, you can find like minded individuals and PM them to plot and scheme. It's easier the more time you spend in the game because your character and views become established and there are IC reasons to form alliances for edicts or candidates. Not that the noble House of Bavaria would ever stoop to back room deals :sweatdrop:.

OverKnight
03-07-2007, 11:51
OOC: Let's welcome our latest Bavarian Elector: Stuperman.

If you have any questions feel free to post them here, for Bavarian concerns, or in the OOC thread.

Stuperman
03-07-2007, 12:09
OOC: Thanks for the welcome, I'm proud to be Bavarian, and a little relieved frankly, I remember reading that being at odds with Tincow ended badly for some people in WotS, or something like that.

OverKnight
03-07-2007, 12:12
OCC: AFAIK It was only bad if you were a Gaul.

TinCow
03-07-2007, 19:55
OOC: LOL. In this game you'll only find yourself at odds with me if you're either a Papist or a non-Papist, depending on the day of the week.

OverKnight
03-08-2007, 07:00
Forgive me, Maximillian. If any other man was running against you, you would have my support. But the Kaiser will be my father-in-law. I have acted to ensure that Bavaria will remain the first among equals. Though you may disagree.

To the other electors of Bavaria, I will not tell you how to vote. Examine the issues, listen in the Diet, and vote your conscience. That is all I ask.

TinCow
03-08-2007, 13:25
*Maximillian laughs heartily.*

And they say *I* have mixed loyalties. Well, perhaps I should get in the practice of bowing to you, Otto, as you will soon be Duke of Bavaria. In any case, congratulations on your marriage. Hopefully Elsebeth will take after her mother and not her father.

OverKnight
03-08-2007, 19:12
Ah, yes. The transition of rule, if it occurs, will be awkward, at least from an administrative perspective. Elsebeth will come of age in 1142, which most likely means your competent reign as Steward, Maximillian, will end that year or in 1144. We will need to post build queues, but which one of us should do it?

Until the official transfer of power, Maximillian is still Steward. If I become Duke, I have several initiatives in mind, but I will wait until I am married before I announce them in the Diet. Presumption can be dangerous.

TinCow
03-09-2007, 14:56
Otto, given that your engagement has been formally declared, the transition seems to be only a technicality. My duty as Steward is to look after the welfare of Bavaria in the absense of the Duke. As you are already Duke in all but name, I believe I should serve your interests, even if I must formally do so as your Lord.

So, please inform me of what you believe the build queues of Milan and Bologna should be. Unless I am in serious disagreement with them, I shall adopt your views as my own, so that your policies will already be in effect when you become Duke. This will prevent some confusion and paperwork for the next Chancellor. As our private agreement will leave Nuremburg in my power and Innsbruck is already in yours, we should operate as normal for those settlements.

OverKnight
03-11-2007, 18:01
With the passage of ammendment 3.1 looking assured, what plans do we have for the Bavarian household army? I assume it will be starting in Innsbruck?

TinCow
03-11-2007, 20:34
Since it appears likely now that I will be elected Chancellor, I feel I can speak freely on the matter. The Bavarian core cities are safe from all but rebels who block our roads. I will be dealing with them personally and immediately. In the south, the Bavarian cities in Italy are at risk, but nearly all Imperial armies are located there and can defend them. Since Franconia and Austria are vulnerable, they will be receiving the first regiments recruited for the Household Armies. I feel that since I will be able to directly control the Imperial armies, I will be able to maintain Bavarian security until the Bavarian Household Army can be recruited a few years from now. Accordingly, I do not expect the Bavarian Household Army to exist before you become Duke.

As such, I will not bother giving orders to an Army that will likely not exist while I am Steward of Bavaria. You may give whatever orders you wish for the Bavarian Household Army immediately after your wedding and I will ensure that they are followed through. I anticipate that recruiting for the Bavarian force will begin at approximately that time anyway.

On a personal note, I think that when the Household Army is finally ready for action, it should be used to protect our holdings in Italy.

Stuperman
03-13-2007, 08:20
I woudl like to Formally Congradulate Chansellor Maximillian Mandorf of his recent election victory.

with the current state of war, and 2 edicts failing to pass after the majrity voted for them, it would seem he has a mighty task ahead.

TinCow
03-16-2007, 22:44
Electors of Bavaria, I know I am no longer your Steward, but as a true Bavarian I urge you to oppose Duke von Kassel however you can! Look after your families, your lands, and your peoples, but I urge you to deny all aid to the Duke except what is required of you by law. He is damned and all those who follow him will suffer a similar fate! Save yourselves and your loved ones, do not follow this man!

OverKnight
03-17-2007, 01:41
A message:

"Well, I am the Duke of Bavaria. I almost regret my grant of titles to you Maximillian, still those are for past service. I fear those days are over. You have said your peace, but you tread closely to treason. I would not have you poisoning the minds of these young Electors.

Electors of Bavaria, this is not how I wanted to begin my reign. But even a Duke, particularly a new one, has to make compromises. There are much worst ways to accomplish this than by service and loyalty to the Kaiser. Bavaria will benefit from our agreement. Genoa is already ours, and more lands might follow. Once the second Investiture Crisis is over, northern Italy will be relatively peaceful and mostly Bavarian. I ask for your patience and your support. Gerhard, you will be joining me in the field. Let's see if we can't get you knighted.

The floor is open for your comments."

nazgul3
03-17-2007, 01:49
Wait i do not know what u are speaking of. eeek

OverKnight
03-17-2007, 01:54
OOC: You have a lot of catching up to do. :juggle2: For me to try to sum up what has happened would be difficult. Review the unread posts in the threads with the KotR prefix, it's a good read.

nazgul3
03-17-2007, 02:05
ooc: yea i immediatly read everything that just happened.. sorry bout that lol...timezone difference i guess..that and its the eve of st patty's lol. All i can say is holy shit..parden my german. Umm yea i will edit that post.
in character


Though i have finally been updated on this situation however i cannot say i agree with all points with both of you. Yes it is a goal of ours to take Rome however the timing could not have been worse. I think there should have been an emercency session to debate on this situation. Your actions were rash Duke and this i agree with the Chancellor. With Rome in our possession, financially, we will grow as a nation. However we must now call all men to arms if we are to survive. In order for our great nation to survive, there must be cooperation between all dukes, the kasier, and the chancellor. It is essential that the differences between you two be resolved now! We must attack together because divided we will fall.

Stuperman
03-17-2007, 03:12
You ask us for patience, mien Duke, but when we asked the Kaiser for the same thing he 'manufactured' a war against the Papacy. You ask us to trust you when you keep the movements of OUR army a secret, in fact I didn't find about the war until I was reviewing causality reports. A war that I should say I am ashamed that Bavarian household army started, As Duke your priorities should be to this house, and the riech, not the personal greviences of a Kaiser in his twilight years. None of the electors here care to be lectured by a yes man from the Kaiser.

(OOC: nothing personal, it's all in character :D)

lilirishman1986
03-17-2007, 04:21
My Duke i support your actions whole heartedly against the heretical papist forces. I have and will continue to give you my full support to you within this house and Diet. I must remind you other members of the Diet that power flows from House Bavaria to the HRE and that we are the movers and shakers of this Empire.

All actions taken recently have been totally legalized by your own votes within the Diet. I motion that all of the House Bavaria stand behind these actions and our own house!

Stuperman
03-17-2007, 04:39
It is not the Job of the electors to support which ever war the they've been told to, it is their job to work in the best interest of the reich, and it's safe to say with our recent excommunication, and incursions by the Hungarians that this war is not in the best interest of the riech.

I encourage all electors not to support the motion put fourth by the 4th elector!

nazgul3
03-17-2007, 05:24
i scoff at your statements 4th Elector. I dont fight for you or my Duke now...i have come to terms with my God and duty. I fight for only the people of God and in no way will any man move me away from the light. God will protect me because I fear no death because He is with me wherever i may roam.

TinCow
03-17-2007, 21:04
OOC: In case you missed it, lilirishman1986, you are now Gerhard Steffen.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1399326&postcount=11

lilirishman1986
03-17-2007, 22:01
ooc: whups missed that

OverKnight
03-18-2007, 01:33
A message arrives:

Sixth Elector, some of the points you make are valid, however, if you are going to complain, get your facts straight. Milan was the capital of the Milanese, not Genoa. Though I guess once I took Milan, it might have been for a short period.

Foreign occupation of a Bavarian city is regrettable, but it will be short lived. Genoa is serving nicely as a trap for Gregory. He is contained and we can finish him at our leisure. None shall escape the Kaiser when he attacks. All the Papal forces in Italy will be gone, strengthening our bargaining position with the next Pope.

OverKnight
03-19-2007, 01:43
A message arrives:

"5th Elector, for threatening the Emperor with bodily harm in plain view of the Diet, you will not be considered for advancement in civic rank or promotion to military duty in the Duchy of Bavaria for the next 10 years (5 turns).

You have the right to vote in elections and speak against me and the Emperor in the Diet, but I will not tolerate turning that Chamber into a tavern. The Diet exists to propose and debate ideas, laws and current events, it is not a place for violence or repeated threats of harm.

For the other Electors, whether you agree with my current actions or not, please keep the example of the 5th Elector in mind before you speak again in the Diet."

nazgul3
03-19-2007, 01:59
Well...Well.. Mein Bavarian electors you now see the punishment for speaking against tyrany. And since we are in the dutchy house i would like to challenge the duke to a contest to nullify my punishment. If i win my punishment is gone...if u win you will have my votes for all edicts u wish me to support...u have my word and since that is the only thing u cant take away... it is truthful so help me God.

OverKnight
03-19-2007, 02:04
A message arrives (those Italian couriers are fast):

"You can speak against tyranny all you want 5th Elector. Just don't threaten violence in the Diet again.

The Prinz has barred you from the Diet. Is he a Tyrant as well?

Apologize to the Kaiser if you wish to speak in the Diet again.

This matter is closed."

nazgul3
03-19-2007, 02:23
Sits in a chair and Drinks smiling at the bottom of his empty mug and mumbles to himself

Here's to whatever you are searching for at the bottom of your glass...May God have mercy on your soul.

Gets up and leaves a note on the table which reads

Dear fellow electors of Bavaria I do hope you are all well and do not fall victim to what has transpired this was never mein intentions. All this political debating has gotton to my head. I think i shall leave now and explore the outside reaches. I hear Spain is nice this time of year. I very much so would like to see England. Peace be with you all and may courage and glory be forever yours...

Yours Respectively
A servent of God



ooc: btw i am not leaving the pbm just gunna read everything and not comment

OverKnight
03-20-2007, 15:07
Sixth Elector,

A well thought out addendum to 1.6. It serves as an effective compromise between no conquest on one hand and unbound expansion on the other. If you have any other edicts in mind, propose them here, if I and the other Electors agree, we can post them as a Ducal edict.

Remember this is a space where Bavarians can talk somewhat freely amongst each other (and a few eavesdroppers). So if you have any thoughts on the current session, speak up.

OOC: Thanks for the quick draw on renumbering.

OverKnight
03-23-2007, 02:12
OOC: Stuperman, do you realize that you've been assigned an avatar? Just happened a couple of hours ago if you haven't caught up on the threads.

lilirishman1986
03-23-2007, 18:03
OOC: can anyone give me a quick rundown of whats going on in the last few days my computer unfortunately died

OverKnight
03-25-2007, 02:24
The time for the next Diet session quickly approaches, if it has not already begun. Fellow Electors of Bavaria, is there anything you would like addressed in the Diet with Ducal Edicts? I fear preparations for the Crusade have taken up much of my efforts, and I would appreciate your ideas.

Also, what should the goals of Bavaria be in the next term?

TinCow
03-25-2007, 02:39
Our Italian provinces are very restless and the Bavarian Household Army has been greatly weakened. Neither of these are areas that require legislation. The first requires only wise build queues from the Duke and the Counts and the second requires only a sympathetic Chancellor. However, these weaknesses show where I believe Bavaria's objectives should lie for this term: Consolidation.

Bavaria has expanded farther and faster than any other House in the Reich. At the beginning of my Stewardship, you will recall that I stated an objective that Bavarians should become the masters of Italy. Well, my brothers, we have achieved it. Bavaria now controls Milan, Genoa, Bologna, and Florence. We have more than enough lands to allow all of our Electors to be titled. Let us focus our efforts on restoring order to these provinces and making them the heart of European trade.

There are a few matters that I wish to propose legislation on, but I would like to think them over before committing them to words. I shall return when my ideas are more complete.

Stuperman
03-25-2007, 03:12
I think the most pressing issue on the home from at this time would be the desperate condition of our household army and the levels of unrest in the newly aquired italian cities.

Our Household army is a joke at the moment, I have one regement of crossbowmen, that has merely 2 men in it!!

OverKnight
03-25-2007, 04:56
Speaking of sympathetic Chancellors, Prinz Henry has announced his intent to run for the position. I had a small part to play in this, and it is only right the he receives the full support of this noble House. I ask all the Electors to back him.

Maximillian is correct, as usual, the needs you mentioned Gerhard can be met by our own resources or are required by law. The build queues I will set forth will take these concerns into account. The BHA will take the field again, most likely against the French or to help defend our new capital, and you will have your battles.

Gerhard, you have spent a great deal of time in Genoa, and I have need of your insights. Please send me a messenger with a provisional build queue for the city for the next 20 years (10 turns). If it's good, I will post it officially. There is more to being a high noble than battles, effective administration is key as well.

I would also like to officially thank Count Mandorf for his service as Chancellor. He guided the Reich through trying times with skill and perseverance. I am glad that with the Crusade we are on the same path again.

We have gained much, as Maximillian said, and now is a time to build and gather strength at home. Yet the Crusade will need Bavaria's continued support, in men, material and leadership. A strong Bavaria means a successful Crusade. Let us endeavor to have both.

Stuperman
03-25-2007, 09:36
I would also like to officially thank Count Mandorf for his service as Chancellor. He guided the Reich through trying times with skill and perseverance. I am glad that with the Crusade we are on the same path again.


HERE HERE!!! To Max!!! You succeeded where many capable men would have failed, the Holy Roman Empire owes you an incalcuable debt. And may unity reign once again in the house of Bavaria.

*takes a large drink of beer*

on to more serious matters, I worry about the sicilians, allies they may be, they are italian, like the venecians and the Milanese, and we both know how well they honoured alliances. I think a spy is necessary in naples.

TinCow
03-25-2007, 15:43
Sir Steffen, you are wise. I hope and pray that the Sicilians will remain our allies. We have been allies for many years and we are both excommunicated. Surely they will see that we must stand together against our enemies. Still, we have given them little support over the years and perhaps it would be a good idea to ensure their continued friendship. I would like to propose legislation to be put forward as a Ducal Edict:

Edict 6.X: The Reich will contact Sicily as soon as possible and grant them a gift of 200 florins per year for 10 years.

We have enough enemies already. That sum of money is a fraction of what it would cost us to defend the Reich against yet another enemy. Let us use the money to keep Sicily a friend. This will of course require the support of Duke von Kassel and two Bavarian seconds.

OverKnight
03-25-2007, 22:14
Count Mandorf's idea is intriguing. I believe one reason Sicily may have been excommunicated again is their refusal to reject their alliance with us. We must reward this while keeping our southern border secure. Rome will be threatened enough in the coming years with out adding another enemy.

I will propose it once I have two seconds from the Bavarian electors, I assume the Count will do so, all I need is another.

Please second here if you wish, and then I will propose the edict in the Diet.

TinCow
03-26-2007, 12:12
Since that Edict has been taken up by the Diet, let me propose two more:

Edict 6.X: The Chancellor is authorized to pay any monetary sum he deems necessary to achieve a ceasefire with the Papal States.

We will never be reconciled with the Pope as long as our war with him continues. I doubt that the Pope will accept a peace with the Reich until we give him a new city from which to rule, but we must at least try. I suspect the sum required would be outrageous, but we have two very capable men running for Chancellor and I do not believe they would make a commitment that would not be in the interests of the Reich. Let us at least give them the option of securing peace through monetary means if they believe that it is in our interests.

Edict 6.X: The Chancellor must attempt to secure Byzantine military access for the Crusade. Florin payment (single or tribute) is authorized for this purpose, at the Chancellor's discretion. If this cannot be achieved, the Chancellor must give the Byzantines a gift of 200 florins tribute for 10 turns.

While the Byzantines are heretics, the Reich has enough enemies at the moment. It would not be good if the Crusade were the cause of another war with a neighbor of the Reich. We should attempt to placate the Eastern Emperor so that the impact of our march through his lands is minimal.

OverKnight
03-26-2007, 13:41
Would not the Chancellor already have the power, unless restricted by an edict, to make peace as he saw fit? I might be missing something here, though.

The edict concerning the Byzantines is a wise precaution, I will propose it if another seconder comes forward from this house.

TinCow
03-26-2007, 13:52
It is true that the Chancellor would have to power to do so, but surely it would be useful for him to know that the Diet supports an offer of peace. The sums that may be required for a peace treaty could be extremely large. During my term as Chancellor, I personally would have been very hesitant to give the Pope 10,000 florins for a ceasefire without Diet approval. I would never dream of requiring such an amount to be payed, but I would like to make it known to the Chancellor that, if he believes such a payment is wise, the Diet will support him in the matter.

I realize that the Edict is not urgent or legally necessary. Accordingly, I only ask that it be considered as a Ducal Edict in the event that there is one to spare. If others are put forward that require that available slot, I shall withdraw my request for this one.

Stuperman
03-26-2007, 20:39
I will second the edict concerning the Byzantines, further war is not in the interest of the riech.

OverKnight
03-26-2007, 22:41
Very well, if someone wants to second this:

Edict 6.X: The Chancellor is authorized to pay any monetary sum he deems necessary to achieve a ceasefire with the Papal States.
Proposed: Maximillian Mandorf
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, ?

I'll propose it in the Diet.

Stuperman
03-27-2007, 00:53
I'm not sure I support that, I think rebuilding the military at home and suporting the crusade, is much more urgent than paying off the pope. We have many financial needs, and our treasurey although not skimpy, ceritanly isn't endless, maybe a series of trubutes instead of a lump sum?

I understand the need for peace with the church, but at present, there are bigger threats to the HRE.

OverKnight
03-27-2007, 07:40
The edict does not stipulate a lump payment. If the Chancellor wishes he can pay over the course of many years. Would any of the other Electors besides Gerhard consider seconding this? Or even making their thoughts known in general? (OOC: Bueller? Bueller?)

Stuperman
03-28-2007, 04:08
Apologies my Duke, the messenger didn't get though till after Voting had started, I would have supported the edict with that in mind.

OverKnight
03-28-2007, 09:19
Quite alright Gerhard, I believe Maximillian did not view it as a top priority, and neither did I. It is more than enough that you voted.

It was a rather odd session anyway, more Amendments than Edicts.

I will be posting build queues and BHA operational orders soon. (OOC: Once I'm back home) As the Commander, Gerhard, do you have any wishes as to how you want the army deployed? Keep in mind it might be tied up in garrison duty for a few years.

Stuperman
03-29-2007, 03:28
My Lord,

Thank you again for Command of the BHA, and for such bold orders, I will not disapoint.
I must raise an eyebrow of concern with your offer of Florence, I genuinely do not like the idea of Bavaria paying for the Kaiser's messes. Admitedly, if accepted, it would force peace in the southern front, something which hasn't been since Milan attacked Bern more than 40 years ago.

in light of this offer, why are we wasting men and resources on this grand excursion east? especially when the threat of attack is very real on every other front?

Not that I don't trust your judgement, I just fail to see your reasoning.

OverKnight
03-29-2007, 05:02
I had a great deal to do with the "Kaiser's mess", though he has taken it to levels I never imagined.

I hope the gift of Florence will balance the scales of my past and present actions. I never expected Florence to be gifted to Bavaria, and so I will pass it on if needed for peace and reconciliation.

As for the Crusade, if viewed from a military or political angle, there is no direct benefit to us. The Crusade's benefits are spiritual and ineffable, and so they are hard to explain. If you don't understand my reasoning Gerhard, then simply follow my orders. It will work out for the best.

OverKnight
04-05-2007, 15:06
Gerhard, as commander of the BHA, do you feel you can defeat the Hungarian army trespassing on our lands? We must crush them before we can relieve the siege of Venice.

If so I will revise the orders for the BHA and see if I can have Conrad Salier sent to assist you. I will suggest that he and any reinforcements arrive on the field as a separate army, so you can have overall command. See if you can get him blooded so we can have him knighted.

Stuperman
04-05-2007, 18:48
I will Gladly Fight the Hungarians, those those vile trespassers should be thought a lesson, and having young Salier on the battfield would be most welcome, It will be a tough fight. I will strike on your word my lord.

(OOC: do I get to pick the battfield? if not I'd like to attack the FS with a captian from the North West)

GeneralHankerchief
04-06-2007, 05:43
Conrad Salier:

Greetings, my fellow Bavarians, I believe that the time has come that I join your ranks.

Mein Duke, I hereby swear fealty to you and will obey you in all matters (OOC: bet you loved that last sentence), but I request, if possible, an alternative measure of obtaining knighthood. While this new Pope was not approved by either Heinrich or Henry, he does have much influence over Christendom and I would like to remain in his, along with everyone's, good graces.

OverKnight
04-06-2007, 20:41
Welcome Conrad, it is good to see Count Mandorf's protege join us. As I stated before, my plan is to have you see your first action against the Hungarian army outside of Venice. Despite the Chancellor's intent, they have yet to take the bait and attack Gerhard at his choke point. Despite this, I feel they must be driven off before we can address the other concerns in northern Italy such as the relief of Venice or sending a Bavarian noble to secure Rome from Papal interference.

Gerhard will command the battle, and I hope Chancellor Leopold will have you bring up some reinforcements from Milan to assist Sir Steffen. Our advantage in missile troops will offset their numbers.

It will be a great battle, a fitting test for Gerhard's leadership and a good opportunity to see if you are worthy of being knighted.

OverKnight
04-07-2007, 02:44
Gerhard, I have received a message from the Chancellor, he and I are of the same mind concerning the Hungarian threat. You will be leading the BHA into battle against them soon. Conrad Salier will be bringing some militia spearmen from Milan to assist you. Make sure that he sees some action and knight him if he performs well. Also that unit of 2 crossbowmen will be sent away so that you will have a combined command of 20 units on the battlefield.

If you have any specific requests of the Chancellor, placement of armies and such, write to him directly.

Godspeed Gerhard, if you are successful it will be one of the greatest victories in the history of the Reich and you will be rewarded.

OOC: No pressure or anything. . .:laugh4:

GeneralHankerchief
04-18-2007, 21:56
Conrad Salier:

First of all, I graciously thank you for the Countship, Mein Duke.

Now that Chancellor Leopold's term is winding down and a new session of the Diet approaches, I believe that it is time to discuss what legislation should be proposed that will benefit Bavaria. Personally, I see little that needs to be addressed, as the focus of the Reich's war efforts have finally shifted away from Italy for the first time in a generation.

If some more observant Elector sees something that I have overlooked then I will obviously stand corrected.

TinCow
04-18-2007, 23:40
I agree with Count Salier that there is little that is need of active legislation at the moment. I am very content with the course that the Reich is taking at the moment and I believe that Chancellor Leopold has served his term capably and admirably. If anything needs our attention it should be ensuring that the Bavarian Household Army is maintained at a high level of quality. With the Kaiser in the East, Bavaria has become responsible for the security of all of Italy. The French threaten Italy with large forces and Milan and Venice continue to send armies towards their former holdings. We are in no danger now, but that could change suddenly if we were to allow the Household Army to fall into disrepair.

OverKnight
04-19-2007, 01:01
I agree with you both, there are no edicts I can think of proposing at the moment. One topic I see coming up at the next diet is negotiations with the Pope. We have tried to deal in good faith, but an agreement has evaded us.

This could effect Bavaria, while Rome is not in our duchy, we are the closest domain to it. It's defense will fall to us. This is important, but I would not see the BHA tied up with this responsibility all the time.

Perhaps we should give thought to an edict that mandates a minimum garrison for Rome. It would also be wise to have a noble near Rome, at the least, in case of an attack.

The Kaiser's announcement is also important, we must keep our eyes and ears open. We must have a Chancellor who is a supporter of the Crusade and of Bavaria.

GeneralHankerchief
04-19-2007, 01:25
Conrad Salier:

I agree that Rome is very important. It is truly our capital now, as well as a bona fide holy city, no matter who holds it. I would support an edict maintaining a minimum garrison, and be honored to defend it.

However, I will not willingly engage in any hostile action against the Papacy if I am to defend Rome. Like it or not, the Pope is still the avatar of Christendom, whether he has the Kaiser's approval or not. I cannot willingly do harm to him and will only engage him if attacked.

OverKnight
04-19-2007, 01:44
Your faith speaks well of you Conrad, but if the previous Popes had not exhausted the supply of mercenaries arround Rome, I feel you would be defending the city against the current one.

We are in a difficult situation, and I fear there is no easy way out. Again the topic will most likely be discussed at the upcoming Diet, so I doubt this will be asked of you Count Salier.

TinCow
04-19-2007, 02:23
These are good points. Rome is an Imperial territory, yet Bavaria has been saddled with the defense of the city. If the duty falls to us, then we should be compensated for the efforts. If the Kaiser cannot or will not see to the defense of his own lands, we must make sure that the defense of Rome does not otherwise hinder the protection of other Bavarian provinces.

Stuperman
04-19-2007, 04:03
I Like the Idea of a permanant garrison at Rome Just something modest to deter that old bugger the pope, and defend against the any further Mianese incursion, although hopefully the Sicillians will keep them busy, rumour has it that they have been besieging Corsica for nearly 20 years now. This would free up the BHA to deal with the French in the west without having to constantly run back to Italy everytime a bunch of peasents rebel.

GeneralHankerchief
04-19-2007, 04:10
Conrad Salier:

Perhaps this would be fair:

Edict x.x: In the absence of the Kaiser, Rome is to have at all times a garrison of at least five regiments as well as a knighted commander. This commander is to receive an additional influence point for his efforts.

I do not see how anyone would protest to this, seeing as how Bavarian lives are at stake more than any other with the defense of Rome. My only concern is that this will most likely have to be proposed as an amendment, which will be much more difficult to pass.

Stuperman
04-20-2007, 01:25
3 infintry and 2 arrow units should suffice, as long as there is a General present, shouldn't we set a time limit so that this legislation runs out when out excommunication is lifted?

OverKnight
04-20-2007, 02:21
If this proposal is an edict, it will expire in 1200 at the next Diet session, that should serve as a good time limit and we can always repropose it if needed.

I do not think the edict should require a presence of a noble, merely that a strong enough garrison is in place. This is so in case of siege the city may hold out long enough for a relief force, presumably led by a noble, to arrive.

As for a bonus in influence for the garrison commander in Rome, that would indeed make it an amendment rather than an edict. I feel this is not needed, and an edict would have a better chance of passing.

A garrison of five units would be strong enough to hold off any forces the Pope may scrape together. However, if a Crusade is called against Rome it might be different story.

The garrison should be strong enough to deal with rebels, Papal assaults and delay a Crusade long enough to allow a relief force to arrive.

I do not envision a permanent commander of the garrison, rather any Bavarian noble who is not attached to the BHA would most likely be in command.

OverKnight
04-23-2007, 02:07
The latest reports show that the Garrison of Rome is quite strong. If I do become Chancellor I will make sure that it stays that way.

Is the Rome edict still needed?

Gerhard, I also await your proposal concerning Ragusa.

GeneralHankerchief
04-23-2007, 02:22
Conrad Salier:

No, I do not believe it is needed any longer.

Stuperman
04-23-2007, 02:51
Gerhard Steffen

Not as long as you win the Chancellorship, my lord.

Stuperman
04-23-2007, 16:47
Gerhard Steffen:

I've heard back from Duke Leopold and he supports the proposed edict, We can assume that Duke Hümmel won't be supporting it, that only leaves Franconia as an unknown.

OverKnight
04-24-2007, 01:51
Gerhard, I appreciate your efforts. Just be sure we have time to get it seconded and propose it in the Diet.

Stuperman
04-24-2007, 17:21
I understand the tight timetable, and as suck am forced to proceed without hearing form Franconia. I make this proposal with the intent of updating some old legislation to accurately reflect the current situation.


Edcit 7.x: Edict E1.7 shall be re-written to read "... This Edict does not apply to Marseille, Ragusa and Breslau, nor does it apply..."

For the record-

Edict E1.7: For the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Thorn, Venice, Marseille and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

OverKnight
04-24-2007, 17:43
I will second this, and if another Bavarian could come forward and do so as well, I will then propose it in the Diet.

Good work Gerhard, I guess the Franconians are too busy killing Poles to send messengers.

OverKnight
04-27-2007, 08:08
Electors of Bavaria,

I am deeply grateful for your support in the election. Without you all my elevation to Chancellor would not be possible.

I would also congratulate Gerhard for crushing the Venetians in northern Italy. I hope this is the last time they will threaten Venice and our own lands.

As always, I would appreciate any input you might have.

OverKnight
05-12-2007, 22:01
My fellow Bavarians, the next Diet session will soon begin, what issues, if any, should we pursue?

I have have heard that Gerhard has an edict in mind for the Milanese, the obstinate fools, would you care to elaborate on it?

Please, propose anything you all might have. The houses that are best prepared for the sessions usually do well in fulfilling their agendas.

OverKnight
05-14-2007, 07:57
Having given some thought to the matter, I'm going to propose a variation of Gerhard's Milanese edict:

Edict 8.x: The Milanese will be offered peace and trade rights with at most 5,000 florins as an incentive. If they refuse, they are to be destroyed expeditiously by taking Corsica and Sardinia, unless we are delayed from doing so by a Papal Bull. Once both islands are in our possession, Sardinia will be offered to the Sicilians in exchange for florins and/or their good will.

Our diplomat on Corsica has reported back about an army of cavalry and siege weapons on the island. Rather than wait for this axe to fall, we should make peace or finish them. Also, Sicily has stuck with us as allies through some dark times. They have shown they desire Sardinia with their short lived attacks on the Milanese, so we should give it to them to improve our relations, and to prevent that island from causing a rift in our alliance.

Both islands are underdeveloped, so the goal here is to eliminate or neutralize the Milanese while improving our relations with the Sicilians, rather than just territorial acquisition. By doing both, we can secure Italy even further from attack or betrayal.

TinCow
05-14-2007, 12:08
I am in full agreement with this Edict and you have my second. The terms of the peace offer are more than fair. If the Milanese do not accept, they can expect nothing more than the sword.

Stuperman
05-14-2007, 13:45
Honourable Duke Kassel

The wording of that Edict is most excellent, I agree that assisting sicily would be a high priority, they deserve recognition for thier loyalty.

OverKnight
05-14-2007, 14:15
Thank you both for your support. I will propose the edict when the new session begins. We should also start considering build queues as well.

The good thing about being Chancellor is that I didn't have to worry about setting my own queues, I will miss that.

OverKnight
05-25-2007, 19:04
Bavarian Electors,

Our House finds itself in the unique position of having no enemies on our borders, with the exception of the French on the Marseille frontier.

With the French excommunication, should we press for a move on Toulouse? Are there other areas of Europe we should address? Or should we sit back and have the BHA respond to events as they come?

Are there any edicts we should propose?

If the Outremer legislation passes, and I ask you to support it, I will no longer be your Duke. I ask Gerhard Steffen and the other electors to think well on the goals of Bavaria, for it be up to all of you to carry them out.

Whatever may come, it has been an honor to lead you. I know Bavaria will be in good hands when I am gone.

GeneralHankerchief
05-25-2007, 20:25
Conrad Salier:

Eventually, Gerhard will be the only Bavarian actually in Bavaria. This means that he will be the only one able to properly respond come a crisis. It would be rather easy for any faction to spot the BHA in Toulouse and determine that our lands in Northern Italy are ripe for the taking (which they will be). It is my personal belief that we should adopt a passive strategy, at least until we get some more Electors.

OverKnight
05-25-2007, 20:57
Gerhard will not be alone in Bavaria for long, I have high hopes for his children when they come of age. (OOC: I'm planning to take one of the kids as my next avatar.)

Stuperman
05-25-2007, 21:17
My sons will be comming of age soon, and the prospect of the HRE streaching from the Atlantic coast of France, to the Agean apeals to me, but caution is inorder, lest some Bavarian holding end up like Thorn.

I will give it some thought and get back to you.

(OOC: read: it's friday night, and I leave work in 10 minutes, I Wanna get out of HERE!!!! and OK: any one in particualr, I was looking at Mathias, as my name is matthew in RL but that won't be for some time)

OverKnight
05-25-2007, 22:18
OOC: Haven't thought about it, just whoever's available. If TC wants to stay in-house, I'm assuming he'll get the first one to come of age. Matthias is the third son, isn't he? That might work out for you.

Stuperman
05-25-2007, 23:17
I'm prod to report the the rebel force was completely obliterated, with only a small number of the Captians body gaurd killed or captures, the captian himself was captured.

TinCow
05-28-2007, 00:56
OOC:
I expect I'll be taking Lothar Steffen, but that hasn't been confirmed yet.

IC:
Fellow Bavarians, it is with great pride that I note that the Empire has recovered the Holy Grail. Such a monumental achievement should not be ignored nor should it be credited to a single individual. The Grail is a direct connection with Christ himself and it is a symbol to all the world that the Reich truly is the Holy Empire and beloved of God.

The Cup of Christ is a treasure of the entire Empire and we must do our utmost to ensure that it is protected and maintained for future generations. Therefore I request that the following be put forward as a Ducal Edict for our House:

Edict 9.X: The Holy Grail must be included as part of the personal retinue of the Kaiser. The Holy Grail must be given to the Imperial Heir prior to the Kaiser's 55th birthday, to ensure that it is not lost to the Empire on the Kaiser's death. The Kaiser may give the Holy Grail to another general temporarily, but that general must in turn relinquish it to the Heir prior to the Kaiser's 55th birthday unless the Heir agrees otherwise.

GeneralHankerchief
05-28-2007, 01:18
Conrad Salier:

I am disinclined to keep the Grail in the hands of the Reich when it has put us in such a precarious position once (OOC: have you read the Stories Thread yet?), but I shall be one of the seconders of the Edict. However, I am uncertain on how I will vote on this piece of legislation. On one hand, it must be determined on whether it was the True Cup of Christ or just an enchanted Chalice that that Kolar fellow performed some trickery upon.

TinCow
05-28-2007, 01:30
OOC: No, haven't read the Stories yet. I'll do that tomorrow morning.

GeneralHankerchief
05-28-2007, 01:44
OOC: Figured. See if you still support it after you're done. :wizard:

TinCow
05-28-2007, 14:57
OOC: Read the stories. (How in the hell did you guys pump out that many in one week?!) I still support the edict because most of what went on isn't known to us IC. From the stories, I'm going to operate on the assumption that rumor has leaked out that the Grail has been found. We may not know who has it, but if it's out there it should be controlled. If anything, it would probably be considered too powerful to NOT be controlled. It's the freakin' Holy Grail!

http://www.eurobrews.com/holygrail%20cup2.jpg

Note that by the wording of the Edict, the Grail would have be turned over to Prinz Jobst.

TinCow
05-28-2007, 23:17
Bavaria! Haha, I love this place! The best beer in the Reich and half of Italy in our grasp! What shall we conquer next, my friends, the Milanese islands? *Lothar looks around the room, expectantly.* Some Moorish lands? No, no... damned dry wastelands those... (Though it might be fun for a good battle or two.) How about Russia! They'll never expect Bavarians in Russia! We could go by the Black Sea! I've always wanted to see Constantinople. (Shame the Byzantines took it back, probably could have used a good sack.) Sail right up to Caffa and surprise them! Does Russia own Caffa? Who cares?! Let's take it anyway!

OverKnight
05-29-2007, 00:15
Otto's gaze takes in the Bavarian delegation and he shakes his head.

Gerhard, the state of your soul is between you and God. The error of leaving you on Corsica is partly mine and partly the Kaiser's, not God's. I am sorry for your afflictions, but what is done is done. You will be the leader of Bavaria, you do not have the luxury of personal grudges if you are to be an effective Steward and Duke. What benefit is there for Bavaria in branding yourself an apostate in the Diet?

I thought I had chosen well for my heir, do not make me regret my decision.

Lothar, I am glad you are here in the Diet, but if you have nothing worth saying, then don't speak. Some of what you say is true, but you lack focus. Try to compose your thoughts before presenting them. Would you ride into battle without a plan or your men not equipped? It is the same thing.

Conrad, you have done well in this Diet, but try not to openly argue with your fellow Bavarians. If you must do so, do it in private. Public bickering within the House gives the impression that we are weak. This is not acceptable.

Gentlemen, one way or the other I will be gone from Bavaria soon. It will be up to all of you to keep her strong, keep her safe and keep her the first among equals. It would be of great comfort to me if you could start doing that now.

Edit: If you have any Ducal edicts in mind, let me know.

TinCow
05-29-2007, 03:43
*Lothar sulks.*

OverKnight
05-29-2007, 04:28
OCC: LMAO, I hope Bavaria does not turn into "the OC" with the upcoming generation shift. :laugh4: "But Daaaad, Lothar gets to fight in the battle. . .why can't I? Lothar, Lothar, Lothar! No one cares about Jan, I mean Markus."

Hopefully some helpful Frenchmen or Moor will beat some sense into the boy.

Nice Handlebar moustache btw. :2thumbsup:

OverKnight
05-29-2007, 13:53
Gerhard, as you will most likely be Steward during the next term, could you post build queues for all Bavarian territories, except Nuremburg please?

Conrad, please provide a build queue for Nuremburg.

Stuperman
05-29-2007, 13:53
OOC: the OC, medieval Edition!

"Dad, will you please, please, please Buy me a horse for my 16th birthday?"

LOL

IC:

Lothar my son, your exuberance is a welcome addition to the House of Bavaria, With some luck we can get you knighted sooner rather than later.

Conrad, It is obvious that you and I feel differently about the church, but there are bigger fish to fry at the moment, we should set aside our difference at least for now.

Your Highness Otto, you are right, I must strive to be a leader as you are, my personal feelings must be seperate from the decisions that I make as Duke.

What is to be done against those Horse Lords in the east? The french Castle at Toulouse is a thorn in the side of both Bavaria and Swabia, should something be done about that?

OverKnight
05-29-2007, 13:57
Very good, Gerhard. If you wish to propose an edict concerning Toulouse, I will review it and most likely second it.

The Horse Lords? I am confident our forces in Outremer can keep them contained. Hans seems to have a handle on the situation.

Stuperman
05-30-2007, 13:47
Gerhard Steffen:

My lord, My apoligies, I sent messengers, but none got through (OOC: .org was down?). Perhaps we can take up the issue of Toulouse with the new Chancellor.

OverKnight
05-30-2007, 14:35
That's fine Gerhard, please go ahead and post build queues for Bavaria, except for Nuremburg, Conrad will take care of that.

Stuperman
05-30-2007, 14:53
OOC: build ques will be up tonight

GeneralHankerchief
05-30-2007, 17:25
I'll be sending my orders to FH privately.

TinCow
05-30-2007, 18:36
Edicts? We do not need any Edicts regarding Toulouse! It is an enemy territory adjacent to the borders of our House. We have all the legal rights we need to assault it with the Household Army. We need not ask permission from anyone, it is our right!

OverKnight
05-30-2007, 18:56
Your son is right Gerhard. As Steward, you will issue the orders for the Household Army, and it would be a legal action for it to take, unless it leads directly to excommunication.

There are advantages and disadvantages to such a strategy. The loss of Toulouse would hurt the French, but they have reconciled even though the new Pope still hates them. The other houses would take a dim view of such an action, particularly the Swabians, yet they have been expanding themselves in the past few years.

Ask yourself, in what direction, both strategically and politically, will you lead Bavaria? How will you make her stronger and safer? Always have a plan, a goal. Not just for the next few years, but the next twenty.

Welcome to the Game of Thrones, Steward. Bavaria is yours, and so is this decision. May God, or good fortune if you wish, guide you.

AussieGiant
06-01-2007, 08:57
A message arrives bearing the seal of Austria

Lord Gerhard,

Your offer to the House of Austria is very generous. I would gladly accept on behalf of my Father Duke Leopold the assistance of the Bavarian House Army in dispatching the Hungarian forces.

I would like to request that I join your army so that I may prove my skill in battle and be knighted.

Additionally I would appreciate if Lothar could also join the army and be knighted also.

Yours
Arnold, Steward of Austria; Count of Budapest

At that point another messenger arrives the seal of Austria

Ahh..mm

It seems the Steward has received more recent information. Lord Gerhard it seems Jonas von Mahren will be bringing the AHA back and making the assault on the Hungarian's wherever they maybe.

Apologies for the confusion.

gibsonsg91921
06-03-2007, 01:53
A messenger arrives from Austria:

My lords, I have come from my master Ehrhart von Mahren, the Count of Prague. The noble Count believes strongly in the importance of a strong navy to gain power in the world financially and militarily, yet he realizes that Austria is, at the present, not the dominant border of the Mediterranean, but rather our friends the Bavarians. He urges you all to focus your building plans around ports, sea trading facilities, and admiralty buildings in order to raise money and protect your merchant marine. Sink any and all enemy ships in our waters, and pass edicts that improve your navy power. If we can keep the Mediterranean clear for our allies the Portuguese and the Byzantine Empire, they will prosper as well. Attack Iraklion, Rhodes, and all other islands not inhabited by our allies.

If we can maintain the dominant sea power we will no longer be susceptible to attacks by the Milanese marines as well as prevent the growth of the rest of our enemies.

Bows, and exits.

Stuperman
06-06-2007, 15:45
Gerhard Steffen:

My fellow Bavarians, I have conviegned this meeting to address the stagnation that has gripped our homelands in the north of Italy. While King Otto and Conrad Sailer make Bavarians proud by thier exploits in the east, My sons and I sit at home so desperate for action that we are persuing military action for other houses.

As noble as this is, it leaves me concerned that Bavaria will fall by the wayside, losing much of the glory we gained against the Milanese and Venetians.

With this in mind, I would like to propose that once Zegrab is secured, The BHA be split into 2 smaller armies, one commanded by myself The other by my eldest son. We then will attack Corsica and Sardinia simultaniously eliminating the Milanese once and for all.

I know that My plan is not without risks, leaving Italy relitively undefended, but the Austrians owe us one, and the Swabians are always looking for a reason to kill some frenchmen. As Steward of the Household I feel any decisions with such risks, and possible rewards should have the input of all the nobles of the house. So please voice your opinions!

TinCow
06-06-2007, 16:53
You have my full support, father! The Milanese have violated the peace for the last time. They deserve no mercy and we would do well to hunt them down to the last man. To forgive one unprovoked war is to show generosity, but to forgive two is to show weakness.

Stuperman
06-08-2007, 14:16
Gerhard Steffen:

Lothar, I have spoken to the Chancellor and we both agree that your Skill in battle is second to none. Your personal bodygaurd killing almost the entire Hungarian Forces at Zegrab was truly a sight to behold. But being a knight is more than mindless slaughter, and there is a point where being brave, becomes being stupid. It was down right dangerous for you to not have used the soldiers avaiable to you, You are given a flexable and balanced army for a reason, use it to it's full potential. And above all, Ordering your men to dis-engage to prove your pair is bigger is foolhardy, and shows more concern for personal glory than the outcome of the battle, DO NOT do it again.


As such you are being granted a provisional Knight hood, the Chancellor may be sending you against more hungarians, If not you will again have the chance to prove yourslef against the Milanese. Should you take the lessons I have tried to impart to heart, your knight hood is assured.

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 00:05
Matthias Steffen makes his entry into the Bavarian delegation:

Greetings Father and Lothar. Have you seen Markus? Or perhaps he is too busy with Marseille to attend.

Did I miss the announcement when he was made a Count? Is he a knight as well? I fear must pay more attention to the goings on of our Duchy.

Congratulations on your victory at Zagreb, Brother. A pity about the provisional knighthood, of course I've never heard of such a thing. Either you're a knight or not. Tedious hair-splitting!

The Austrians will owe us even more now. You saved Venice from the Venetians and Hungarians, Father, and now Lothar has liberated Zagreb as well. I wonder what we should ask in return? If the Austrians cannot defend their own western lands, perhaps they should be transferred to us.

As for Milan, we should strike against them as soon as we are able. The departed Duke Otto was correct, we should finish them. I fear the Kaiser's good heart got in the way of that. What use is peace if it only lasts a few years? Duke Otto should have been more insistent on a rapid assault of their islands. It would have saved our family. . .

Matthias's speech is interrupted by a coughing fit. He brings a hankerchief to his mouth as he pauses. He continues to speak in a raspier voice.

. . .much difficulty.

All I ask is that I may join in any battles so that I might prove my worthiness to be a knight. I will not disappoint.

TinCow
06-11-2007, 03:30
*A note arrives from Austria, it's bearer ragged and tired.*


Father,

Provisional knighthood or not, next time I am sent in to battle, I expect to be given a bloody army to lead! I am accused of mindless slaughter, yet all of Budapest has been saved from yet another of my 'massacres.' If you want me to lead, give me an army. I grow tired of these games.

Lothar

McIwoo
06-11-2007, 09:52
A messenger enters with a note


Dear Brothers and Father,

Please accept my apologies for the sparse news, recently I have been kept busy assessing the situation in my new County of Marseille. I dare hope we will soon have the occasion to formerly celebrate my appointment as Count and invite you, should the occasion present itself, to come to Marseille. I have started to make different arrangements to develop a significant commercial center and I have heard that although the local council is presently quite hostile to the Empire's politic it is a marvelous place.

But enough of me; my earnest congratulations to Lothar for his display of Imperial and Steffen might. I can only express my disappointment to the fact that the knighthood is provisional. Has this ever been done before? Let us meet to celebrate both these important events for the Empire and the House of Bavaria.

Markus

TinCow
06-11-2007, 12:15
*Lothar arrives in person.*

What in the hell is this I hear about Markus being made Count of Marseille?! My baby brother is given lands before I am? I have risked my life twice now in the aid of our Austrian allies. Yet the only reward I have received is the mockery of a 'provisional' knighthood, while Markus need only continue breathing and he has been given rich lands to govern.

No disrespect is intended by this, Markus, I am certain you are worthy of your lands. I am simply wondering what exactly I must do to receive some proper recognition in this House.

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 13:38
Welcome back, Lothar. Have you concluded your tour of the Reich?

I am glad that you have officially earned your spurs.

What I would like to know, is where our Household army is. As far as I can tell, part of it is garrisoning Zagreb and the other half is even further in Austrian territory near Budapest.

What do you think would happen if the Milanese descended on us now? Do you think the Franconians would gracefully leave behind their pillaging of France and aid us? Austria, perhaps, but they are far away and have their hands full.

We should press for the immediate return of our Army so that we may strike at the Milanese.

TinCow
06-11-2007, 13:52
You speak the truth, Matthias. I am not certain if you have noticed, but the Houses do not seem intent on cooperation at this moment in time. The Swabians continue to pursue their vendetta against the French and the Franconians continue their mindless ravings about the Poles. Only Bavaria and Austria have had amicable relations lately, thanks to my friendship with Duke Arnold. I am certain we will continue to be close allies of the Austrians, but they have their hands full at the moment. We simply must look to our own resources for our defense.

I suspect the Bavarians in Austria will never be properly returned to us. With the Hungarians actively assaulting the eastern borders, I cannot see the Chancellor returning them to our lands any time soon. He will find some loophole in the Charter to support this, I am sure of it. Let us pre-empt him by donating all of those soldiers to the permanent service of Austria. Duke Arnold is in need of good men and there are no better man in all the world than Bavarians.

We can then look to our own resources to deal with Milan. Let us build a new Household Army from Innsbruck. That fortress has magnificent training facilities and we should be able to assemble a fearsome army in short order without having to rely on outside help. With our regiments in the east officially assigned to Austria, Bavaria will technically be without a Household Army. The Charter will require the Chancellor to immediately assemble a new one, regardless of the cost to the Imperial treasury.

Stuperman
06-11-2007, 14:33
Gerhard Steffen sits rubbing his temples, goodness children take it out of you, he thought to himself.

(OOC: I have to get better at posting on the weekends, SO much goes on.)

Firstly, Lothar, I will not have you and half the BHA garrisoning Zagreb, Your new duties as Count of Florence require you there. In a few years (1236-1238) You and myself will launch co-ordinated attacks in the last two Milanese Strongholds in Corsica and Sardinia. I would also like to appoligize for naming your younger brother before yourself, In the confusion of military planning The announcement never got off my desk.

Mathias, You are hereby named Count of Milan, with all the duties and priviledges granted as such.

Markus, and Mathais, You are both invited to Join me or Lothar in the Milanese persuit, let me know and I'll make necessary arangemenst with the Chancellor.

is there any business I have missed?

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 14:44
Thank you, Father, I hope to prove myself worthy of the title.

I believe the witch that has plagued our Family still resides on Corsica. She should be eliminated before we move against the Castle. I can see to it personally if you wish.

Stuperman
06-11-2007, 14:47
OOC: DANG IT, we have 2 counts of milan, I thought GH was count of Nuremburg? it was a gift from max? I'll change it If I am wrong.

Edit:

Gerhard Steffen:

You are right my son, I was going to discuss it with the Chancellor before we set out, what did you have in Mind?

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 14:50
OOC: Conrad was transferred to Nuremburg, the avatar list in the Chancellor's report thread should be more up to date.

Isn't being Duke fun? :wink:

I must say, I'm thoroughly enjoying being a teenage brat, it's a welcome change of pace.

Matthias:

Either we send a holy mission to the island to denounce her before the army arrives (high powered priests since Danae is powerful), or we use our army to hunt her down before sieging the castle. (sorround and squish, though we'll need enough units, ~8 depending on terrain)

TinCow
06-11-2007, 14:51
OOC: No, you're correct. Conrad was switched to Nuremburg, I changed that just a few minutes ago when I noticed it was wrong.

Stuperman
06-11-2007, 15:04
Lothar!

I have just read of your exploits with a single regiment of teutonic knights at Budapest, with such a glorious victory You are hereby granted full Knighthood.

Should you keep up the good work it will be soon that you are in command of the BHA.

TinCow
06-11-2007, 15:23
Thank you, father, both for the knighthood and for providing me with superior training in strategy and tactics when I was a child. Though my victories are my own, I could not have achieved them without a proper military education. It is good that you have finally achieved your rightful title of Duke. Otto and Maximillian were too focused on the Eastern lands and Conrad continues that foolish obsession. Bavaria is the heart of the Reich and it is there that we must concentrate our efforts. I know that you believe the same and your rule as Duke will be our most glorious yet!

*Lothar lifts a beer stein in salute.*

TO DUKE GERHARD AND BAVARIA!

McIwoo
06-11-2007, 21:10
*lifts his beer stein*

TO DUKE GERHARD, BAVARIA AND PERMANENTLY KNIGHTED LOTHAR COUNT OF MILAN!

*downs his stein in one go like a true bavarian*

I just arrived from my County where I've left my mentor dealing with the council. He'll hopefully calm them down. I gave him the permission to lower the taxation in case they wouldn't quiet down.

I'm glad my opinion on these Milanese dogs wasn't completely flawed (ooc cf mp to Stuperman). In addition to secure our borders, taking Corsica and perhaps Sardinia from them would boost the commercial activity in this part of the Mediterranean sea. However based on the intelligence that I could gather in Marseille thanks to local fishermen and naval tradesmen, I do not think that the full might of our Household Army would be necessary. Plus if this intelligence is correct, our Sicilian allies have already landed a strong host in Sardinia.

At any rate, if you send an offensive against the Milanese I ask for the honor to serve.

Stuperman
06-11-2007, 21:17
Of Course Markus, I'll be sure to let the Chancellor know that you wish to be attached to one of the landing parties.

as for the Sicilians, they have tried in vain for years and years to take Sardinia, perhaps they need a little imperial help? How are our relation with the Sicilians?

TinCow
06-11-2007, 21:30
Duke Gerhard is right, the Sicilians have failed to take Sardinia on countless occassions over the past 100 years. They have the manpower but seem to lack the ability to drive the attack home. I do not know the status of our relations with our oldest allies, but surely aiding them in battle cannot hurt. Perhaps it will even help to make up for Prinz Jobst's blunder in ambushing that Danish Crusade several years ago.

If the Sicilians are still on Sardinia when we land, our combined arms will be able to easily take the island, so I do not believe a large force would be necessary. This would allow for a main assault on Corsica by the Household Army without needing to divert a full half of the force to the south.

McIwoo
06-11-2007, 21:36
As far as I know our relation with the Kingdom of Sicily is reasonably good. Their traders seem to be very competitive though.

Somebody from the Imperial Diet may point out that attacking the Milanese might not be appreciated by the Holy Siege though.

McIwoo
06-11-2007, 21:42
I hope you'll excuse my poor language, quickly drinking beer after a long ride doesn't seem to go all too well.

*burps*

TinCow
06-11-2007, 22:03
Bloody hell! No sooner do we prepare for the final elimination of the Milanese dogs than the Pope himself demands that we cease our attack? Does he so easily forget that it was the Milanese who resumed the war by attacking us?! On top of that the Sicilians have made peace with Milan, thus removing the possibility of a combined attack.

I am getting mighty sick of foreign powers determining the fate of Bavarian affairs...

GeneralHankerchief
06-11-2007, 22:52
Conrad Salier:

Fellow Bavarians, I may be located far from Innsbruck and my name may not be Steffin, but I am still a member of this great house.

Perhaps a proxy attack on the Milanese is in order if the Pope does not wish us to attack them. We could pay the Sicilians a certain amount which would go to financing of an army to finish off those islanders. I believe that the Chancellor would approve.

In other news, Bavarian influence in Outremer could use an extra boost. If Kaiser Henry does name me King of Outremer I am expected to be impartial, much as the Kaiser is. There is much work to be done in the East, and I'm sure that there are more battles to be fought. I would be happy to have an interested Steffin lad come over and help out.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 22:58
A messenger clad in Imperial colors enters the room and hands a message to the guard.


Dear Bavarians,

The papal order does indeed interfere with plans to proceed against the Milanese, but we shall see how it goes. As only our relations will suffer slightly, the possibility of expedition is still on the table.
I will keep an eye out for papal fleets stationed near Milanese ones, which may allow us to guide the pope in seeing how untrustworthy the Milanese truly are.

Chancellor Hans

Stuperman
06-12-2007, 14:24
BOOM!! the doors to the Bavarian Meeting place explode open, as Gerhard Steffen, seething with anger pushes his way in.

DAMN THAT SNAKE TO THE FIREY DEPTHS OF HELL!!!

I refuse to be pushed around by the pope, we installed him, he should be bowing to the Riech, not the other way around. Tells us not to End an insurection that should have ended long ago, and the balls of the Sicilians, Making peace with Milan, what do they have in mind I wonder? Or perhaps they fell for the Milanese lies too, had them against the ropes, and were convinced thatpeace was in everyone's best interest.

My sons, Conrad, what say you?

I feel as though we should push on, Continue with our plans to end Milan, although I could be convinced that a more methodical plan is required.

Gerhard, now visably calmer after screaming for a bit, takes a large drink of beer, which further calms him. He sits at his desk and sorts through some papers.

Oh yes, and I will echo Conrad's sentiment, Another Bavarian in outremer couldn't hurt. (OOC: but I understand, most people just got back from the east, in a manner of speaking)

gibsonsg91921
06-12-2007, 16:53
Message from Franconia:


I see your needs to defeat Milan, and I am in favor of disregarding the Papal bull in order to do so. The only question is, will the rest of the Empire?
Peter von Kastilien

TinCow
06-12-2007, 17:40
A believe a crucial point is determining whether the Papal order will result in a decrease in our favor with the Pope or outright excommunication. If it is the former, we can still move freely against the Milanese. If it is the latter, we would have to get the approval of 2/3 of the Imperial Diet, or risk their wrath. Many in the Diet would surely oppose such a move for their own petty reasons, so achieving a 2/3 majority may be difficult. I would not be opposed to the attempt, however.

McIwoo
06-12-2007, 19:10
Would it be possible to offer some sort of gift to the Holy See to make Him understand the logic behind our actions? On a side note, I agree with your general feeling, their choice of action is outrageous!

*continues to slowly drink his beer*

Stuperman
06-12-2007, 19:28
Based on discussion in the Diet, the Swabians have something special in mind for the French Army near Nuremburg(sp).

Those who know me know that I've never been one much for the Church, so our plan to deliver Justice to the Milanese is unchanged. It will be 2 halfs of the Bavarian Household Army, one lead my by my self, the other by Lothar.

I believe that Markus, you said that you wanted to show the Milanese what you are made of.

Lothar woudl you be opposed to taking one or both of your Brothers along to Sardinia?

TinCow
06-12-2007, 19:53
Not at all. In fact, I would like to request that Matthias accompany me. I will ensure that he obtains the proper experience necessary to command an army. As we have seen, being knighted in Bavaria actually has meaning, unlike the pointless title bestowed on any noble fop in other Houses. I will ensure that Matthias earns his title. Do not fear, though, I will personally watch over him in battle.

GeneralHankerchief
06-12-2007, 21:56
Conrad Salier:

Excommunication is not worth continuing a vendetta against the Milanese. If all we have to lose is a simple drop in standing I am all for it, but if we risk excommunication then we should wait for the time being.

OverKnight
06-13-2007, 09:45
Matthias enters the Bavarian quarters in an agitated state.

Lothar, are you mad!? This will not bring us the support we need. Save your anger for the battle field.

King Salier, I meant what I said in the Diet, once the Milan situation is resolved, one way or the other, I will journey East to offer you my service.

TinCow
06-13-2007, 12:22
I apologize to you, my brother, and my Bavarian collegues, if my words have somehow put us in a difficult position. I merely speak from the heart and desire to aid our people. I look forward to raising my sword in service to our House, for I know I can do good there.

Regardless of the antics in the Diet, I believe we still have the law on our side. The Pope's order does not mention excommunication, so we are not barred from attacking Milan by Charter Amendment 6.7.

McIwoo
06-13-2007, 13:13
All this trouble in order to shed more blood, when we could solve these issues more peacefully.

*mutters*

One day, I hope, it will be said that the House of Bavaria tries to solve problems instead of running towards them mindlessly.

*clearing his voice*

Well then if the imperial law doesn't forbide it, I guess this is a sorted matter?

OverKnight
06-13-2007, 13:29
Markus, we tried peace with the Milanese. It didn't work, they attacked us again. If the peace had held, I would be content to leave them be, but they chose war. Let them reap the whirlwind for that decision.

If the political climate doesn't allow for an immediate strike, we must pursue it at the next Diet.

I do not mean to be bellicose, but we must put an end to this thorn in our side. It is frustrating because we do not share a land border with them, they can strike in many places with their fleets.

TinCow
06-13-2007, 13:36
Matthias is right, we have been patient with Milan for too long. It was certainly worthwhile to seek peace with them after the long war and I too would have been content to keep relations between us civil. The Milanese islands are not so wealthy that Bavaria needs to annex them for its own reasons, it is simply a matter of stopping these incessant raids on our lands. We cannot fortify every section of coastline at once and they were bound to do damage to us over and over before we can assemble our armies and drive them back into the sea. Nor should we bother to seek another peace with them. They have twice declared unprovoked war on us and they will surely do so a third time if we give them the opportunity. Another peace will simply give them more time to rebuild their armies.

In truth, the matter lays with the Chancellor at the moment, as it is up to his discretion as to whether to follow new orders for the Household Army. Hopefully he will see the justice in our cause and support us. If not, it is a simple matter of giving the appropriate orders for the Household Army at the beginning of the next term, which is close enough at hand to wait for without much concern. We are morally and legally in the right.

McIwoo
06-13-2007, 13:43
Brothers I did not mean to say that we shoudln't take care of the Milanese problem once and for all, but rather that we should make more diligent use of our economical and political might instead of the army. This when both dealing with the Holy See and the Milanese.

Stuperman
06-13-2007, 14:38
Gerhard Steffen:

Lothar, I am proud of you son, you stood up for a very unpopular position today against some of the most influential men in the Riech. I am inclined to agree with your point that putting the wants of the Pope before the needs of the citizens of the Riech is absurd.

Your diplomatic skills could however use some practice, accusing the Chancellor and Kaiser of treason on the Diet floor is certianly NOT something that you should do if you want to have any sort of political career.

Now I know that Matthais has requested to go east (OOC: is that for story reasons? or just to have another Bavarian out there?) but late last night I recieved a messeneger from Conrad Salier, specifically requesting your presence Lothar. I am tempted to grant him your presence, how would you feel about that?

TinCow
06-13-2007, 14:49
*Lothar looks startled.*

My presence? Given Conrad's friendship with the Kaiser, who is also present in Outremer, I cannot imagine I will receive a warm welcome in those lands. Of all the places in the Reich, that is the one place I am wary of going at the moment. I think my reasons are understandable. I must know Conrad's specific reasons for this before I make any response, especially given that Matthias has already volunteered for the duty. If there is a legitimate reason for wanting me over Matthias, I will consider it, but I will not seek it out myself.

If you speak to Conrad before I do, please let him know that he can discuss this with me via private communications if he is uncomfortable with a public discussion.

gibsonsg91921
06-13-2007, 15:45
Regardless of the antics in the Diet, I believe we still have the law on our side. The Pope's order does not mention excommunication, so we are not barred from attacking Milan by Charter Amendment 6.7.

OOC: For the record, I saw that after my most recent Diet speech about the laws

GeneralHankerchief
06-13-2007, 16:58
Conrad Salier:

I do this for you, Lothar. If you truly wish to be a powerful figure in the Reich's politics you are going to have to be taken seriously. Right now I can tell you that you are regarded as little more than a spoiled child.

A stay in Outremer could correct that, as you would be seen as finally growing up by going to the place that you least want to go. Bavaria needs another presence in Outremer and Adana would be yours should you choose to go there. In addition, future leaders of the Reich should acquaint themselves with all of its parts. While not located in Germany, Poland, or Italy, Outremer is still a part of the Holy Roman Empire, with all the benefits of any other part.

Upon your return to the Diet, you will be regarded as a mature adult and your opinions will be listened to. I guarantee that.

TinCow
06-13-2007, 18:17
Outremer may be ruled by the Holy Roman Empire, but it is most certainly not part of it. Few of the people who live there are Romans, indeed most are Muhammadans who have recently converted to Christianity at sword point. To say that Outremer is equal to Swabia or Austria is simply not true.

The one area where Outremer has value is to Christendom itself. Certainly it was a worthy conquest and it should be maintained and defended vigorously. However, there are many proper Catholics in the world who journey there to defend the place. It is not lacking in support. My entire concern is that our homelands themselves are being drained and abandoned in deference to this new 'Kingdom.' You say that it is part of the Reich, while I see it being promoted as superior to the Reich. Why is it that your title is "King" of Outremer, Conrad, rather than Duke or some lesser rank? Were Duke Gerhard to journey East, he would be forced to kneel to you. How is that right? How is that just?

No, I cannot leave our homelands behind when it is the homelands themselves that are so desperately in need of support. You say going East would be to my own benefit. That is yet another reason to refuse. With all the work there is to be done right here, I would be abandoning those who need me only to further my own power. It is yet another offer of 30 pieces of silver in a different guise.

If defending the lives and values of my own vassals makes others regard me as a spoiled child, then I shall wear that moniker with pride.

GeneralHankerchief
06-13-2007, 22:21
Conrad Salier:

First of all, I dispute the claim that most of Outremer's inhabitants converted to Christianity at sword-point. As anyone can tell you, Damascus was primarily Christian when it was taken by the Crusaders.

Since Outremer and its charter were Kaiser Henry's brainchild, evidently he believes that Outremer is a special entity, different than the other Houses that currently occupy the European Reich. If you have any concerns with its treatment, I suggest you take it up with the Kaiser. I simply make due with what I am given.

As far as your own personal glory issues, I am glad to see that you are somewhat above the level where you scream at Hungarian soldiers to fight harder. However, the fact remains: Bavaria needs another presence in Outremer. Out of the four Bavarians currently in Europe you are the one farthest from the Milanese and your people that you are so concerned with. It also happens that you are the closest one to Outremer. I am certain that your father and brothers have enough mettle in them to deal with any Milanese threat that arises. Do you disagree?

TinCow
06-13-2007, 23:54
First, Conrad, I would like to say that I did not mean to infer that your title of King of Outremer was unjustly rewarded or that you are abusing it. It is well-known that you did not create the position and did not seek to possess it. Indeed, it is to the glory and honor of Bavaria that the title of King of Outremer has so far only been held by Bavarians. All of us are proud of your accomplishments there and you have earned great respect in this house. I suspect you may feel a bit uncomfortable being surrounded by a House full of Steffens, (Hells, I know I would be if I were not one.) but I assure you that you are as much a part of our family as I am. I do not and have never sought to insult or demean you in any way. My comments about Outremer were merely about the strange governmental system that has been created, which has nothing to do with you or your actions. So, if you have taken anything I said as a personal offense, I apologize and humbly request your forgiveness.

As for me going East... Of course my father and brothers are more than capable of handling the Milanese affair. I have never once said that my presence was even remotely necessary to resolve the issue. I also agree that another Bavarian in Outremer would be a good thing and we have enough capable leaders to spare. However, it does not seem wise to me to send a man who does not desire to be there in the first place. I am as much a God-fearing man as the next person (apologies, father) and perhaps I will tour Outremer at some point in my life, but I simply do not feel that it is where I should be at the moment. This is especially true when my younger brother Matthias has openly expressed his desire to go. He is a very capable man and will serve Bavaria as well, if not better, than I could.

My physical proximity to Outremer seems a silly point on which to base this decision. Surely whichever man goes will take a sea route rather than a land route. As such, being located in Italy or Austria will make little difference the speed of departure. Let us get Matthias knighted posthaste and then send him on his way. All will be well, Bavarian interests will be protected, and Outremer will receive one of the finest men in the Reich.

GeneralHankerchief
06-14-2007, 00:03
Conrad Salier:

Very well. But the point remains that another Bavarian is needed in the East, and I would prefer that the position be filled sooner rather than later. Therefore, in the interests of the Kingdom of Outremer I shall revise my position on the Milanese issue in order to send Matthias East more speedily.

Congratulations Lothar, you have just participated in a civil discussion where no voices were raised or insults made. Look at the result: You get what you wanted and an elder (me) respects you more as a result of your tone. Use this tact more often and you shall be put in higher regard by the Diet in general.

TinCow
06-14-2007, 00:17
HAH!

That's a call for a round of beers, if I've ever heard one!

*Lothar raises his stein and grins.*

OverKnight
06-14-2007, 05:07
Matthias takes a sensible sip of beer and smirks a bit.

While I may be Uncle Conrad's second choice, I will still gladly head to Outremer. I'm so glad you all could so collegially decide my fate amongst yourselves.

As I said before, if the Milan situation cannot be decided quickly, I should head east. From what I've heard, there will be many opportunities to gain my knighthood.

This does not mean, however, that I think we should be lenient with those merchants, if not now, we should rid ourselves of them as soon as possible. If it comes to the next Diet, we should craft a tightly worded edict that will not allow delay as shown by Kaiser Henry when he was Chancellor. He has been an effective and visionary Kaiser, but in that respect he failed Bavaria.

Matthias glances down at piece of parchemnt in his hand.

For insurance, I would respectfully suggest to you, Father, that you issue BHA orders before the reign of the next Chancellor begins that ensure our goals. This way, the Chancellor will have no choice to follow them unless they violate the Charter.

TinCow
06-14-2007, 12:13
*Lothar is still drinking his ale when he hears news that part of the Bavarian Household Army has been bribed by the Russians. The surprise of the news causes him to sputter and spurt beer all over the table.*

RUSSIANS?! What good Bavarian would ever care for Russian coin? We must NOT let this pass without response. Each and every one of our deserters must be hunted down and publicly executed. The Franconians have been complaining about their lack of ability to strike at the Russians for some time now. Perhaps we should support them in the upcoming Diet and propose a punitive expedition against the Rus. Not to conquer, but simply to sack and move on. That should be sufficient retribution to make them think twice about their hostilities towards the Reich.

Stuperman
06-14-2007, 16:07
This is most disturbing news, and I fear it may delay any action against the Milanese. Given the obvious Heathen tendancies on Corsica, I'm inclined to bring a couple of priests along with the army to more quickly subdue the populus.

King Salier's plan for drawing out the Milanese is a very interesting one, especially if we use it on Corsica, we can then use the settlement on negotiation with the Sicilians, see if we can improve relations, and maybe get Military access. It would also help to get the Diet off our backs.

McIwoo
06-14-2007, 19:43
*His jaws drop when he hears the news*

mmmh this is a very bad and most disturbing news indeed. True, well paid, equipped and trained Bavarian soldiers...traitors? How is that possible?

*Bangs his head against the table*

I agree with Lothar, a swift and strong answer to both these filthy traitors and backstabbing Russians must be delivered! In the same it wouldn't hurt to capture their leader and officers alive to question them, there may be more traitors among our soldiers. I suggest we pay more attention to this issue in the future.

Stuperman
06-14-2007, 20:09
OOC: the troops that got bribed have disappeared? turned russian? turned Brigand?

TinCow
06-14-2007, 20:23
OOC: I'm pretty sure they disbanded. They were bribed by the Russians, which means that any units the Russians cannot build disband. I don't think there was anything in that stack that was buildable by Russia, so they simply cease to exist.

TinCow
06-15-2007, 02:23
What's this?! The Milanese attempt to land an army on our shores, the Chancellor ignores the Pope, supports the House of Bavaria, and sinks the fleet, in direct violation of the Papal Bull?! This is a clear display that we have been entirely right in our stance on Milan, despite the opposition in the Diet. With the Papal Bull now defunct, no further harm can come from an assault on Milan.

Father, brothers, it is time to ready the Bavarian Household Army for war! Let us set sail immediately!

TinCow
06-15-2007, 16:04
*Lothar hears reports of the discussions in the Diet.*

Matthias, I wish you well on your journey East, but do not forget where you come from. Outremer is not the heart of the Empire and priority must be given to the homelands. I hope you do not become one of those religious fanatics who spends all his spare time searching for Christ's chamberpot, or whatever Divine Baubles are left buried in the sands.

TinCow
06-17-2007, 14:41
*Lothar reads over the transcripts of recent Diet speeched. He pauses when he reaches Hans proclamation for re-election.*

What is this? Hans "proves" his support for us by raising "a large force in the Italian cities" with which we can attack the Milansese. Large force?

*Lothar cranes his neck around the room. Looking left and right, then he shrugs.*

Where, pray tell, is this force? In all of Italy there is only one military unit that is not from the local militia! There is not a single army in all of Bavaria that meets the standards required for a Household Army! Clearly Hans intends to insult Bavaria by using a fast levy of militia to obscure the fact that he has been responsible for the total dissolution of our army! Is he so ignorant to think that we will be happy to lead militia spearmen and merchant cavalry as a replacement for professional Bavarian soldiers?!

Hans also claims to have fulfilled all the Imperial Edicts he was bound by law to fulfill. Perhaps I should lend him my tutor for a time, for it seems our dear ex-Chancellor is also illiterate! He has totally failed to meet Edict 9.3, yet he still proclaims his success. He had only three Edicts to fulfill in his entire term, and he did not even manage that.

It seems to me that there is only one reason to return Hans to the position of Chancellorship: so that we may then immediately move to impeach him for his crimes against Bavaria and the Reich!

If one of you would be willing to convey these FACTS to the Diet, I would be most grateful.

OverKnight
06-17-2007, 14:56
OOC Edit: This was posted at the same time as TC's post above, consider the first part of this a response to 169.

Matthias glances at Lothar as a flash of irritation comes across his face:

I find your lack of faith, disturbing, Lothar. A Bavarian is needed to assist King Salier and continue our supervision of Adana. I will be proud to follow in the footsteps of Maximillian Mandorf and Otto von Kassel in defending the Holy Land. You can stay here and cool your heels outside the Diet.

Matthias regains his focus.

Speaking of King Otto, I believe a variation of this edict concerning Milan might be tried again:


Edict 8.1: The Milanese will be offered peace and trade rights with at most 5,000 florins as an incentive. If they refuse, they are to be destroyed expeditiously by taking Corsica and Sardinia, unless we are delayed from doing so by a Papal Bull. Once both islands are in our possession, Sardinia will be offered to the Sicilians in exchange for florins and/or their good will.

Obviously, peace has been tried and it failed, so it should not be an option this time. I also suggest we impose a time limit and a measure to bring the witch Danae to justice. Despite King Salier's assertion, the Inquisitor is no match for her, and she must be dealt with by us. Here's what I would propose:

Edict 10.X: The continued Milanese threat to Imperial trade and lands will be ended by taking Corsica and Sardinia. The witch Danae will be eliminated before any siege of the Castle on Corsica. Once both islands are in our possession, Sardinia will be offered to the Sicilians in exchange for florins and/or their good will. All this must be accomplished in 10 years (5 turns).

The time frame given is tight, but I hope that will encourage the next Chancellor to accomplish this quickly. As we all know delays last time lost us our goals and hurt members of our House.

Matthias pales and begins to cough, with great effort he begins to talk again.

This must not be allowed to happen again. We this edict, we can remove the Milanese threat while strengthening our alliance with Sicily.

IC Edit: You raise some good points, Lothar. The Chancellor has been effective, but not at all honest. I will speak in the Diet regarding this, unless you plan to apologize to the Kaiser? That ban has lasted a bit longer than you thought, no?

Stuperman
06-17-2007, 16:02
I very much like the wording of that edict Mathias, it shows restraint and properly recognizes the threats to the expedition. I would suggest that something about attaching a couple priests to each expedition, In my past time on Corsica they proved useful to keep the men focused, and convert the local populars after we take over.

Lothar, I'd like to speak to you privately.

GeneralHankerchief
06-17-2007, 16:13
Conrad Salier:

I shall be happy to second Edict 10.x, although I think that the Papal Inquisitor currently on Corsica has taken care of Danae.

OverKnight
06-17-2007, 17:02
Matthias:

King Salier, I am afraid the the Inquisitor is not up to the task, the poor fellow (one piety, last I knew) is outclassed by Danae (~7). His feeble attempts to denounce her have probably only served to strengthen her powers.

Matthias coughs into a silk cloth.

Father, an insightful comment about sending priests. I am sure Corsica is a godless land full of Apostacy and Paganism due to that foul servant of the Devil. How does this sound?

Edict 10.X: The continued Milanese threat to Imperial trade and lands will be ended by taking Corsica and Sardinia. The witch Danae will be eliminated before any siege of the Castle on Corsica. The most devout Priests available, at least two, will accompany the army to bring the light of God to that accursed Isle. Once both islands are in our possession, Sardinia will be offered to the Sicilians in exchange for florins and/or their good will. All this must be accomplished in 10 years (5 turns).

GeneralHankerchief
06-17-2007, 20:29
Conrad Salier:

Perhaps we should destroy her ourselves with the army. I believe that Maximillian Mandorf used this tactic with the assassin that claimed Sigismund der Stolze's life.

OverKnight
06-17-2007, 20:31
That was my intent, the troops would scour the countryside before laying siege. The priests would be there to enforce orthodoxy once we have taken the Island.

GeneralHankerchief
06-17-2007, 20:38
Conrad Salier:

My apologies, I've been feeling a bit under the weather lately...

OverKnight
06-18-2007, 01:19
Matthias:

A thought, technically, King Salier is no longe part of our House, at least for his term as King. Do you approve of the revision, Father? If so, I will need a second from Markus or Lothar as well.

TinCow
06-18-2007, 02:43
Of course I will support your edict, Matthias. Just because I think your interest in the East is foolish does not mean I will ignore sense when you choose to speak it. I am glad to see that when it comes to legislation, you have our Homelands at the forefront of your thoughts.

Stuperman
06-18-2007, 13:42
I will gladly second the edict myself as well.

OverKnight
06-18-2007, 15:25
Matthias:

I will go ahead and propose the House Edict in the Diet with Lothar and Father as seconders.

Thank you both.

McIwoo
06-18-2007, 22:31
My apologies for my recent lack of participation in the House's affairs. The county of Marseille and the Chancellor's “help” have kept me rather busy lately.

For the matter of the edict 10.X, if it is needed, you can count on my support as well Mathias.

TinCow
06-18-2007, 23:31
Conrad Salier, I am disturbed by your proposed Edict 10.7 in the Diet. Are you saying that we should have allowed the Milanese army to land on our shores and besiege our cities?

GeneralHankerchief
06-19-2007, 00:10
Conrad Salier:

With strategic placement of our armies, the Milanese will go for our forces first instead of the cities. Besides, the possibility of a new Pope (one whom we will support and thus be in good favor with) giving us a Bull that early on against a people that another edict instructs us to destroy is highly unlikely.

Remember Lothar, 10.7 is only for a new Pope.

TinCow
06-20-2007, 17:59
First Conrad, now Matthias, my own brother?! Your support of Edict 10.7 is an affront to Bavaria! Regardless of which Pope it is directed at, it is blatantly targetted at our recent difficulties with Milan. This is an insult by itself, but even if it were not directed at us, it places Papal interests above the welfare of Bavaria! Under no circumstances should we ever prefer to harm our own people rather than injure our reputation with the Pope. So long as we not excommunicated again, why should we care if we are not regarded in the "highest" standing? Bah! This is blind obedience to a man who has no loyalty to the Reich whatsoever. I won't even begin to touch on the matter of Edict 10.2. Clearly you think the Pope knows better than I how to govern my own vassals!

It certainly appears that I was right to defer the Bavarian post in Outremer to you. Go East and serve your most Holy and Chivalrous masters. It seems you care for their friendship more than your own family's.

McIwoo
06-20-2007, 20:15
I would have to agree with Lothar on this matter: as long as we don't get excomunicated, the Holy See's point of view is as worthless as any other Nation's.

We're are Chretiens and as leaders of our people can make sure that our actions follow our faith.

Father, following our interventions in the Diet regarding the Russian issue, I'd like to propose myself, if I get the chance to be knighted against the Milanese, to go fight against Russia. I would of course would be delighted to follow your lead if you decide to take this path as well. This would give us a chance to make them taste some true Bavarian steel.

OverKnight
06-21-2007, 06:45
First Conrad, now Matthias, my own brother?! Your support of Edict 10.7 is an affront to Bavaria! Regardless of which Pope it is directed at, it is blatantly targetted at our recent difficulties with Milan. This is an insult by itself, but even if it were not directed at us, it places Papal interests above the welfare of Bavaria! Under no circumstances should we ever prefer to harm our own people rather than injure our reputation with the Pope. So long as we not excommunicated again, why should we care if we are not regarded in the "highest" standing? Bah! This is blind obedience to a man who has no loyalty to the Reich whatsoever. I won't even begin to touch on the matter of Edict 10.2. Clearly you think the Pope knows better than I how to govern my own vassals!

It certainly appears that I was right to defer the Bavarian post in Outremer to you. Go East and serve your most Holy and Chivalrous masters. It seems you care for their friendship more than your own family's.

Matthias's face darkens at Lothar's comments, a visible flush can be seen. He speaks quietly, though there is an undercurrent of rage in his voice.

My actions are an affront to Bavaria, Lothar? I tire of your accusations against me, you cloak your own ambitions in patriotism and then tar those who differ with you as disloyal. Your relentless and clumsy advancement of your own military career have done more harm to our Duchy and our interests than I could ever dream of doing.

You did not "defer" anything to me Brother. Your senseless attack on the Kaiser, and exile from the Diet, endangered the advancement of our cause and the position in Outremer was offered to you because you had become a liability to the House. I volunteered before that, and I'm glad you, in your pride, rejected it so that I may go.

You see, I actually believe in what we are doing in Outremer, defending the Church and promoting the Faith. That is why I supported 10.2 and 10.7, because there is more to life than a mindless pursuit of one's own temporal advancement. What is victory or ambition worth, unless tied to a higher purpose?

I am glad I am leaving soon, so I won't have to listen to anymore of your mindless braying.

Matthias stalks out of the room.

McIwoo
06-21-2007, 09:58
A big hourra for Lothar's wedding is in order! All the best and may you enlarge the Steffen familly with many fierce warriors!

(OOC: A bavarian celebration's in order :balloon2: )

Stuperman
06-21-2007, 14:11
My sons,

Stop this Damned fighting at once, Lothar I also voted for Edict 10.2 (OOC: for OOC reasons :laugh4: ), are you also accusing me, the Duke of the household of being Anti-Bavarian? It would seem you are the one out of line. I too have a certian distain for the church, but given that Kaiser Heinrich proved that the Pope is an unceasing enemy, when he is your enemy, it is better to keep him in favour. Supporting an edict that the Kaiser proposes is also never bad for one's political career, you must learn when to speak from the heart, and when to speak from your head.

I had longed dreamed that the Steffens could Rule Bavaria, Bavaria Optimus Maximus, the greatest and the best as our Roman brothers years ago would have said. Internal Strife will surely destroy any such chance of that.

Now, if we can put this unpleasentness behind us we have a Marriage to Celebrate! to Lothar and his new wife Gerhard raises a large beer glass and drinks it all in one huge gulp

Markus, You may gladly come along against the milanese, I still have to confer with the new Chancellor about the exact strategy, but you will be there I assure you of that.

OverKnight
06-21-2007, 14:19
OOC: "But Daaaaaad, he started it!"

TinCow
06-21-2007, 14:20
Apologies, father. Matthias and I have had some private... disagreements... lately. *Lothar glares at Matthias' empty seat, then looks at the floor* I have let them cloud my judgment and I have angered you. I shall endeavor to keep my mouth shut from now on, unless my words will aid Bavaria.

I long for the day when I can draw my sword against the Milanese criminals. I find myself better at battles than diplomacy.

(OOC: When/how did Lothar get married? I do not see an announcement anywhere.)

OverKnight
06-21-2007, 14:25
OOC: I just checked the latest save, Lothar isn't married. In fact, everyone in Bavaria is a confirmed bachelor except for Gerhard.

Stuperman
06-21-2007, 14:30
OOC: I was just taking this from McIwoo's post, meh.

@OK, LOL

IC:

That day will come soon enough Lothar, Perhaps you'd like to develop a strategy to defeat them with me? Would two forces simultaniously? or one larger force?

I'm thinking you lead one force on sardinia, and Myself and Markus will Take Corsica, what say you?

TinCow
06-21-2007, 14:42
Two forces sounds prudent, father. Best to end this matter quickly. It would be much better for Markus to be knighted by your hand than by mine. I wish I could be there to see the torture you will inflict on that damned witch, but simply knowing her fate is sealed with be enough for me.

The only 'unusual' strategy that comes to mind relates to our Sicilian allies. I have not checked the latest intelligence reports, but it is entirely possible that their army is still on Sardinia. Perhaps they could be convinced to resume their war with Milan if we initiate a nearby battle with the Milanese.

Stuperman
06-21-2007, 15:33
An interesting Proposal Lothar, We will have to investigate further.

McIwoo
06-22-2007, 08:32
erm Lothar...not married?! I must have had one of these dreams again. This would have been a good occasion to celebrate! My apoligies about this misunderstanding.

(OOC: didn't realise we had a sister Kordula before)

I'm looking forward to crush the Milanese dogs at your sides Lothar and Father!

OverKnight
06-22-2007, 16:37
Matthias:

The latest reports indicate that Lothar and Markus have already been dispatched to Corsica with militia troops and Merc Knights. The witch is not visible to our forces, she's propably north of the Castle as we are to the east of it. Father, you're still in Rome, perhaps awaiting the arrival of troops from Innsbruck, which I'm currently commanding.

If you have a specific plan in mind, Father, I suggest that you inform the Chancellor, for he seems to be implementing his own. I hope he remembers that justice is to be brought to the witch before the castle is sieged. I do not wish a repeat of the last time we were on that accursed Island.

Stuperman
06-23-2007, 21:25
I have sent contact to the chancellor, Hopefully something will be worked out.

McIwoo
06-26-2007, 13:27
*Clears his throat and smiles warmly*

My dear brothers, may I suggest that we all, in the best interest of our ancestral House, keep our slight animosity for the privacy of our own councils and chambers? The public shows of discord in the diet do not serve our interest and it is my opinion that it even weakens your own positions. Especially you Lothar, I do not mean to lecture you on political matters, but as the eldest son it may be well seen if you could show some “natural” disposition to diplomatic affairs and stop alienating us members of the others houses.

There is no stronger bound then blood and it is my understanding that we all cherish each other and as brothers and the dearest of friends should manage to coexist in harmony and help each others.

TinCow
06-26-2007, 14:00
You are right little brother, but I still resent being singled out in this manner. I was simply defending myself from Matthias' unprovoked attack! Yet in the Diet and in my own House, I am accused of being the instigator. I was not the one who spoke first. I was not the one who began spewing personal insults at the Kaiser's coronation. Hells, reprimanding us both is proper, but limiting the scolding to me is... annoying.

Still, I appreciate your candor and your concern. Be assured that I will not let my personal quarrel with Matthias interfere in Bavarian affairs. I will grovel for forgiveness in the streets if that is necessary to ensure the safety and prosperity of our Duchy. (Though there had better be a damned good reason for me to kneel to any man other than my Duke and my Kaiser.)

OverKnight
06-26-2007, 14:06
Matthias sulks.

Stuperman
06-26-2007, 14:22
Ugh, kids Gerhard Steffen thinks to himself.

Mathais, while I thank you for your concern, Your brother already has 2 parents, you shouldn't let the actions of your brother concern you too much.

Lothar, while I'm sure whichever young peasent girl you 'charmed' this time left a smile on your face, at such a somber time as this many people mistake your glee for insensitivity.

Has anyone heard from the Chancellor? I have been trying to speak with him regarding the Milanese operation for several days now, but there has been little response. I'll write again.

McIwoo
06-26-2007, 18:51
My apologies Lothar if you felt I singled you out. I merely felt that you, as first born, required more care and support.

Plus it wasn't a scolding, I just expressed my feelings on the matter.

*chuckles*

At any rate I look forward to my first real battle!

*stabs and trusts the air with an imaginary sword*

OverKnight
06-27-2007, 13:29
Matthias looks over the latest scattered reports.

While we have not had an official Chancellor's report, I'm trying to piece together something from these. . .

Matthias pales and begins to cough. He struggles to stop and then speaks in a hoarse whisper.

Damn it! The witch lives! Lothar and Markus have besieged Ajaccio but the witch Danae is right next to the siege camp! The Edict specifically stated she was to be hunted down before the siege began! What is Chancellor Hummel doing?!

Lothar and I have had our disagreements but I would not want to see Markus hexed.

Edit: Also the priests that were supposed to accompany the army to Corsica aren't there. In fact there's no Priests in all of Bavaria!

Stuperman
06-27-2007, 13:35
This is most disturbing news, I genuinely hope that the chancellor lets us in on the secret of what the hell is going on.

OOC: I can't look at the save for several hours (isn't work great?), WTH is going on with scotland?

McIwoo
06-27-2007, 14:20
*A letter from the Milanese front*

To the Bavarian Council,

It has been with a great disappointment that I have heard soon after our arrival on this accursed island that this wretched witch is still alive and active. Additionally, we are here in a famously none Christian region and yet I haven’t heard of any disposition being taken to accompany our host with priests. Those are usually very keen in converting the like of the local pagans and heretics, especially when backed with such an overwhelming military force. I do remember a certain edict recently approved that evoked this very situation and wonder what happened to its enforcement, hence the following enquiry:

I cannot help but to question the way this operation has been administered. If this is how Bavaria maintains its operations I call for a quick and drastic change of politic and way of action. If this is a result of the deeds of our newly appointed Lord Chancellor, in the name of Bavaria please report this to the noble members of the Diet. For this not only puts Lothar and I in a predicament (well known in our family as I recall), but demonstrates a serious lack of preparation, if not anticipation.

In the service of Bavaria,

Markus

OOC: Haven't seen the save yet...and yes work is great :)

Stuperman
06-29-2007, 14:43
An emergency session of the Diet is upon us My sons, and my dear brother (OOC: I know that Conrad is technically gerhard's cousin, but I like the Idea of Bavaria being one family), is there any pressing matters that have not already been addressed by the diet you wish to persue?

And Lothar, your binges always seems to have impecible timing (OOC: Lothar's enterance was HILARIOUS)

TinCow
06-29-2007, 15:03
Apologies for my tardiness in the Diet, father. All of these recent rumors about my various 'marriages' gave me something of a fright. I figured it would be best to get in some quality debauchery before I was married off to a nun!

As I recently stated, Father, I believe we should limit discussion in the Diet to the Impeachment vote of the Chancellor. The will of the Electors was made plain at the full session only a very short time ago. It is redundant and wasteful to exploit this session in such a manner. The laws must be followed as they were passed and we must simply decide whether we trust Chancellor Hummel to do that.

TinCow
07-03-2007, 12:25
*Lothar staggers into the chamber, looking haggard.*

The cursed island must burn! *cough* Weeks in that damned wilderness *cough* and not a single sight of that damned *cough* witch! The locals are hiding her, I know *cough* it! She is using her evil magic on me to prevent my soldiers from finding her. It's the only possible *cough* explanation!

I must return immediately with priests and enough men to *cough* scour the fields and houses. We must strip that island bare to purge it of this heresy! *cough* Father, I urge you to contact the Kaiser immediately and obtain larger forces for the next invasion. I will not see *cough* that damned witch escape me again! And when I am done with her *cough* I will execute every single last Milanese dog that harbored her! *cough*

OverKnight
07-17-2007, 08:13
Matthias Steffen:

Ah it felt good to get into a battle and kill some brigands troubling good Bavarians. I was a bit surprised to find you on the ship when I boarded, Father, will you be joining me in Outremer?

Oh. . .Good luck against the Milanese, Lothar

Stuperman
07-18-2007, 15:12
OOC: Announcement regarding the BHA pending Ajaccio battle report.

Congradulations Lothar!

What a great Victory over the wretched Milanese.

As promised, I name you Lothar Steffen as Commander of the Bavarian Household Army.

Lead well my son, Speak with your heart, but give orders with your head. Play to your adavntages and you will be victorious in all your battles.

TinCow
07-18-2007, 15:23
OOC: You may want to edit that comment out. The battle was... eventful. The battle report will be up in the next 30 minutes or so and I suggest you read it before you comment on the victory.

Stuperman
07-18-2007, 15:38
OOC: ok will do.

Stuperman
07-19-2007, 14:38
OOC: I'm not going to address Markus's death IC in here right now, but I'm gone starting tonight till monday, and may not be able to fight battles till tuesday, so In my absence I'll be naming Tincow as Steward of Bavaria. And I think I'll wait till after the HRE or the Spanish take Caralis to transfer BHA command, unless you have any objections TC.

TinCow
07-19-2007, 14:59
OOC: Nope, none whatsoever. Do we actually have something worthy of the name BHA or is it just more militia like I had at Ajaccio?

Stuperman
07-19-2007, 15:10
I haven't seen the save in several turns so I have no Idea, Ajaccio was a reasonably high teched castle, so we should ba able to train some knights there at bear minimum.

Stuperman
07-24-2007, 16:25
My my my, what an interesting development, the Sicilians...What are your thoughts my sons?

There's no point in keeping allies who think that thier cause can be advanced by attacking the pope (not that I think it's a bad Idea in principle...just political suicide). It makes me wonder when, not if, they will attack us, attack Rome, and that is one thing I WILL NOT let happen.

I personally would like to see them off the European mainland, we can keep them bottled up on Sicily, or Africa Perhaps?

and what to do with the Milanses? Have they beaten the Spanish? or have the Spaniards done the dirty work for us?

TinCow
07-24-2007, 16:36
I am very displeased with the Sicilian situation. They knew the Pope was in our pocket, but they attacked his possessions anyway. I wish the Chancellor had chosen to break of the Papal alliance instead, but even if he had it would not change the fact that the Sicilians have essentially assaulted a vassal state of the Reich.

I do not believe the Spaniards have yet succeeded in taking the last Milanese island. In fact, I hear rumors that they may even abandon the siege soon, even though they are on the brink of starving the garrison out. I for one am sick and tired of trusting others to deal with our enemies. The only time proper action is ever taken is when Bavarian generals lead Bavarian armies into battle. I believe we must ensure that our Household Army is restored to good order and dispatched to Cagliari to ensure that Milan is disposed of for good. Once that is done, the Sicilian matter will become far easier to deal with.

Stuperman
07-24-2007, 18:16
I am inclined to agree Lothar, The sicilians are not yet at war with us, and given the sad state of the BHA, opening up war on 2 fronts wouldn't be a good Idea.

TinCow
07-25-2007, 15:30
Bavarian Electors,

Despite my brother and I contesting the Chancellorship in the Diet, there are household matters that must be attended to. Matthias, I hope we can set aside our differences in at least this area, for the good of our Homeland.

We must ensure that legislation is passed that will see to the permanent destruction of Milan and protect us against any actions by the Sicilians. I therefore propose the following two Edicts:

Edict 11.Xa: Before the end of the Chancellor's term, Cagliari must be conquered by the Bavarian Household Army, led by a Bavarian general. If the Milanese are destroyed by another faction before this can be accomplished, this Edict is void.

Edict 11.Xb: If war breaks out between the Reich and Sicily, the conquest of Naples and Palermo is authorized.

I will propose one of these as my personal Edict if I must, but it would be best if they could both be Ducal edicts, pre-supplied with two seconders, to ensure that they are put up for a vote.

OverKnight
07-25-2007, 15:36
Matthias grits his teeth.

A valid point Lothar, but I will see what Father has to say before seconding either.

Calling for the conquest of Cagliari by a Bavarian leader and army might be redundant, considering the only sizeable force in the area is the BHA.

Stuperman
07-25-2007, 15:54
I have given much thought to the situation involving the Sicilians and the Milanese, let me postulate for a bit:

Should we take Caligari we will have a large Sicilian force to contend with, given the recent agression of the Sicilians towards the pope, the german pope, it would not be unexpected if this force then attacked us on Sardinia. Which would result in the BHA being stranded on Carligari defending it, while the Sicilians have men being recruited on both Palmero (the settlement on Sicily) and Naples for a direct assual on Rome.

On the other hand, Should the BHA be directed to Assult Naples, it would force the Sicilians to move thier forces off Sardinia. Putting the Sicilians on the defensive, with some luck even thier forces could be destroyd in transit from Sardinia.

We could take Naples and Palmero then move on Caligari, which could be used to negotiate a peace with the Sicilians. With the added bonus of elminating all land boarders we have in the south.

I am prepared to propose legislation(multiple edicts in necessary) that meets these ends.

Mathais and Lothar, you've certianly put me in a tough spot, I will address you both privately on the matter of Chancellor.

TinCow
07-25-2007, 16:04
Father, were we at war with the Sicilians, I would agree with you entirely. However, we are not and I seriously doubt the Diet would support a resolution permitting us to declare war. I believe we will have to wait and see whether the Sicilians will attack us. With that being the case, refraining from attacking Cagliari until after Naples and Palermo would run the risk of us not moving on Milan at all in the coming term. I, for one, would prefer to see them ended, permanently, as soon as possible.

OverKnight
07-25-2007, 16:40
It is true we are not at war with Sicily. Our focus should be on finsihing the Milanese. They have taken much from Bavaria. They have taken. . .Markus. I will second the first edict.

Setting plans now for what to do just in case Sicily attacks us is prudent. . .but the Diet might view it as a land grab and an invitation to provoke Sicily into war. Father seemed to view the Edict as if we are already at war with them, others might share that thought.

Stuperman
07-25-2007, 16:47
I see your point Lothar, but a castle in the southern reaches of Bavarian lands would a huge strategic advantage (OOC:naples is a castle right?). I don't like the Idea of Transporting the BHA through hostile water either if(when) we go to war with the Sicilians, and the Idea of elminating land boarders appeals to me greatly as well. Additionally I have a plan that may allow us to pass any legislation that we wish, but don't wish to discuss it publicly at this stage.

Perphaps the opposite of my plan then, going from Caligari to Sicily, then Naples, along with a strengthened Roman garrison would be a better plan? Still the Idea of war with the Sicilians and having the BHA away the mainland is a situation that I'd rather not face.

Mathais, I might seem warmongering, but I have never trusted an Italian, considering thier recent actions I am convinced that war with the sicilians is only a matter of time.

2nd edit: I will second both of Lothar's edicts.

TinCow
07-25-2007, 17:51
(OOC: Palermo is a castle, Naples is a city. Ajaccio and Cagliari are also castles.)

OverKnight
07-26-2007, 02:22
Very well, in the name of House Unity, I will second both edicts.

Stuperman
07-26-2007, 15:30
Given that the Lothar and the BHA will be campaining away on Sardinia for some time and the loss of our allegiance with Sicily, I think an increased presence in Rome, Our capital, is necessary.

I would also like to propose:

Edcit 11.X
In response to the Increased hostility shown in general by the Sicilians the Garrison of Rome shall be increased to include: A full 'free' garrison of local militia, plus 2 regiments of profesional foot, 2 regiments of professional missle and 2 regiments of Cavelry(professional or militia), Gerhard Steffen is to be put in Charge of thr Defence of Rome.

OOC: I'll take out the cavelry part if 2 of the free garrions can be milital cav.

TinCow
07-26-2007, 15:38
I happily second this Edict.

OverKnight
07-27-2007, 04:47
I will second the Rome edict as well.

Stuperman
08-03-2007, 20:54
My sons, We have managed to secure Ajaccio, the burial site of your brother, for Bavaria. I am asking for your input with regards to how public infastructre money should be spent on Corsica. Given that I have few years left, I would hate to see large investments wasted.

Personally, I would like to see much investment in troop training facilities, specifically bowyers, practice ranges and the like. Ajaccio is a very well developed Citadel, only the second such facility to be part of Bavaria, It is also much closer to our Italian holdings than innsbruck.

I will not ignore the fact that by turning it into a city there could be much financial benefit to the riech as a whole, but with significant holdings in the Ligurian Sea already I'm not sure that that would be necessary.

Aditionally, (OOC: If I remember correctly) the barracks facilities on Ajaccio are more advanced than any other barracks controled by Bavaria, and quite possibly the Riech it's self!

TinCow
08-03-2007, 21:06
I agree, father. Bavaria is now a very large house and Innsbruck is far from some of our Italian possessions. We should definitely keep Ajaccio as a second area from which to train professional soldiers. So long as a small fleet is kept available, we should be able to send men to any part of Italy, France, Africa, or Spain with ease.

TinCow
08-10-2007, 00:42
*Lothar Steffen strides into the Bavarian meeting chambers. He is carrying a large wicker basket.*

Father, I have a present for you from the last Duke of Milan.

*Lothar tosses the basket across the room haphazardly. It lands almost upside down, spinning and spilling its contents onto the stone floor. The object that emerges is little more than a bloody and disfigured hunk of meat. Nailed to what must have once been a forehead is the Royal Seal of the Milanese Duke.*

Stuperman
08-10-2007, 14:55
May he 'burn in hell' for eternity.

OverKnight
08-10-2007, 17:53
Matthias covers his mouth with a cloth at the smell of putrefaction. He looks up at Lothar with a look of incomprehension, as if he does not recognize the man who stands before him. He speaks in a low voice:

It is done, so be it.

OverKnight
08-19-2007, 07:39
First let me welcome Friedrich to the House of Bavaria. It is good to have you here. Let me know if you have any questions.

Second, what House Edicts should we propose?

I believe one should concern the disposition of Cagliari. Another should authorise the conquest of Naples and possibly Palermo.

Thoughts?

Warmaster Horus
08-19-2007, 09:52
I was under the impression that Stuperman was the Duke of Bavaria, and therefore I have sent him a message asking my position (Governor or General [OOC:Forgive the pun]).

In the message, I had also asked his thoughts upon an Edict I would propose, and which would be along the following lines:
Editc x.x: The Chancellor must do everything in his power to re-conquer Naples and Palermo, thereby re-unifying Italy.

TinCow
08-19-2007, 16:11
Welcome Friedrich! It is good to see a new face in these halls. Please let me know if there is ever anything I can do to help you.

I fully agree with Friedrich's legislation regarding Naples and Palermo and I second it. Sicily must be dealt with. The Diet saw wisdom in that in 1260 and surely they will see wisdom in it again.

I also wish to propose a House edict as follows:

Charter Amendment 12.X: Ajaccio and Cagliari are incorporated into the Reich. The Chancellor is directed to trade Cagliari to any foe if it can bring about a peace between our nations.

With this recent Diet discussion about incorporating Bran into the Reich, I note with some alarm that similar legislation regarding Ajaccio was previously missed. That could make some believe that this most important Bavarian Citadel can be disposed of at will in future years. We must close this loophole immediately for the good of our House and for the security of the Reich's southern border.

I have included Cagliari in the Amendment to give us more flexibility in how to deal with it. I would not be opposed to disposing of the land, but in truth I do not know if now is the best time to do so. Perhaps in a few years it can be traded for a peace treaty of some sort, so we must hold on to the lands until it is useful in this manner. Without incorportating Cagliari into the Reich first, it would have to be immediately disposed of, even if that action would be to the disadvantage of the Reich.

OverKnight
08-20-2007, 02:20
I will support both edicts if needed. Though we will need Father's sanction to make them official.

Stuperman
08-20-2007, 13:52
Friedrich's proposed Edict has much wisdom to it, I will second it.

Lothar, I support your CA as well, any legal question about ajaccio must be put down.

(OOC: this was the first thread I checked after PM's, I'll prolly have more revelant stuff to add in a bit)

TinCow
08-20-2007, 17:31
Father, since both of these Edicts have the required seconds from Bavaria, I would request that you formally propose them in the Diet. I would do so myself, but the last time I attempted that there were a a protest that I could not do so because I was not Duke. I would not want to give that particular Elector-cum-Lawyer further technicalities to gripe about.

Stuperman
08-20-2007, 20:10
Frederich, Would you care to join me and my men in the assult of Florence? It would be an easy way to earn your spurs

TinCow
08-20-2007, 20:32
*Lothar is drinking from a beer stein when his father speaks. Caught by surprise, he exhales violently, spraying drops of beer all over the hall. It takes him a few moments of sputtering and coughing to collect himself.*

Florence?! Has someone taken my County?! The Sicilians? The Spanish? By all that is Holy, they had better not have interrupted construction of my Inn!

Stuperman
08-20-2007, 20:54
That's the last time I hire a local messenger, those damn sicilians are tricky.

Naples woudl be the target of my operation, not Florence. My appoligies Lothar and Frederich.

Warmaster Horus
08-20-2007, 21:22
Naturally, I accept.

OverKnight
08-20-2007, 22:45
If I am elected Chancellor I will have Friedrich join Father.

Warmaster Horus
08-20-2007, 23:24
But, even if you aren't Chancellor ('twould be a pity, assuredly), the future Chancellor would have to respect that order, since it's in relation to the Bavarian Household Army, no?

OverKnight
08-20-2007, 23:31
Most likely, but why not be entirely sure?

Seriously though, Dukes can appoint HA leaders and movement orders, but I'm not sure if orders for accompanying nobles are covered.

Warmaster Horus
08-21-2007, 09:01
True. In any case, you've got my vote :2thumbsup:

Stuperman
08-21-2007, 13:43
Lothar, Don't you still have forces under your Command?

I was going to issue orders to the next chancellor to have myself and Frederich travel south to Naples, and have yourself sail south from Sardinia to Sicily proper.

Assuming that the 2nd household army proposal pases, that would leave each Frederich and Lothar in command of an army.