Mythology: Total War

[uanime5]

Outline

In areas of high heresy in addition to witches and heretics appearing mythological creatures will also appear. The number and type of these creates will depend on the level of heresy and where they are (so there'd be mummies in Egypt, elves in Germanic areas, and dwarves in Scandinavia). Mythological creatures are able to recruit other mythological creatures in different areas though.

Mythological creatures act in a similar manner to Mongols in that they are powerful, can survive even if their last city is taken, and will attack other players. However they will occupy cities and castles, rather than raid them.

When occupying a city they are able to harness the heresy of the population to enable them to create more powerful units (large population = better units). So in a huge city they can build more powerful units than a large city. They can also build structures to increase heresy and unify the population in the same way churches can be build to increase Christianity (though they’re not as effective at unifying the population as churches are). However when they occupy a castle they can only recruit basic monsters since there are far less people.

Crusades can be call against heretic settlements, though the Pope will send Inquisitors to these cities and offer missions to attack them.

Units
Royal family: do not exist, mythological creatures will remain even if all their generals are killed (though they may disband if there are only a few of them left).

Generals: have magic instead of Piety ratings. High magic makes them and the troops them command stronger, and gives a moral bonus.

Infantry: monsters almost always fight unarmed and unarmoured (though there claws and armour acts as weapons and armour). However there are some exceptions, such as dwarves who use axes.

Spearmen: do not exist, nor are there any monsters with features equivalent to a spear. [If strongly requested they will be added, though they will require a major city].

Archers: elves and wizards (the latter uses spells, rather than arrows).

Cavalry: monsters on horses, pigs, or wolves; monsters that are horses, pigs, or wolves, and monsters that are part horse, pig, or wolf.

Undead: necromancers can bring the dead bodies back to life (they have are limited by their amount of magic in the same way archers are limited by their arrows). The necromancers level will determine how long they last and how powerful they are. [May not be included if too difficult to do].

Demons: can only be summoned if you have a Diabolical guild. Scare non-demon units and reduce their moral (affects your own non-demon troops as well).

Siege equipment: giants, who are the size of buildable siege towers (can only attack at ‘close’ range). Since monsters are not craftsmen they cannot build anything beyond a battering ram.

Dragons: many not be included, will not be able to fly. If included they will act like a hybrid of an elephant (scares everything, powerful) and a mortar.

Ships: none (cannot build ports). Though they can recruit mercenary sea monsters.

Agents

Witches: agent that can be trained in the same way as spies and assassins.

Heretics: priests of heresy. Can be trained or created by converting a priest.

Merchants: do not exist, no economy.

Princesses: do not exist, no royal family.

Recruiting
1) Mythological creates are made by turning people into monsters (money is paid to the wizards to do this).
2) Mythological creates are made by sacrificing people to monsters (some money is paid to the wizards to do this, there is a loss of population, discontent may increase, and people may leave the settlement).

Also since mythological creatures are not good economists the cities and castles should generate much less money when they are occupying them (cannot change the tax rate from low). This would make sacrificing more appealing.

Opinions/suggestions
If anyone interested in this mod or want to know more please post in this thread.

[Raz]

A good chunky part of what you've posted is impossible. But I'm just too lazy to post what is and what isn't so I'll leave that up to someone else.

One thing I do know however, is that what you said about those necromancers is impossible. Well, I'm pretty sure on that.


*Stalls for time 'til someone else gets here* <_<

[Ilsamir Lord]

I like the idea, and I don't know the intricacies of the engine to be able to say what is and isn't feasible.

Wouldn't it be a nice policy if people said something positive and then went on to say how im/possible something was? Simply saying "Can't be done" doesn't help anyone and can be quite discouraging when you're just starting out.

Anyway, all the very best with the possible parts, uanime5, I'd love to see those mummies! :D

[adembroski]

As I am currently working on a mod based on a fantasy setting, I can say that it's certainly possible to do something that works on your premise, but you are going to have to overhaul your plan extensively.

I've seen wizards done as artillery, which I plan on doing, there's no reason it can't be done as an archer unit as well (the world I'm modding is relatively low-magic, so massed wizard units are a bit too much).

But I think the hardcoded limitations will prevent such things as raising the dead and permitting factions from living on after the death of the family members.

I would say, unless you are doing this purely for your own enjoyment (as I am... basically doing Dragonlance because *I* want to play Dragonlance:Total War, and making it available because I might as well), you might want to pick an established fantasy setting or base it on a "Legendary Earth" and not be quite so over-the-top if you want an audience. Generic 'monster' settings don't tend to attract a lot of attention.

[uanime5]

Well I've started making this mod and here is what I found.

1) I can't introduce an option to sacrifice lots of towns people because training soldiers does not reduce the population.
2) Unless a mod exists that will allow a character to create allied units and teleport them into a battle I can't make a necromancer or a summoner.
3) Adding new units takes a long time.

I'm still testing how to change a unit's size (physical size not the number of soldiers in a unit).

Currently I am:
1) Creating a Mythological faction that will be based in Denmark. It has strong warriors but lacks agents and unit diversity (I'll add other mythological factions based on Islamic and Orthadox myths later).
2) Trying to create a heretical church and demonic guild.

Here is a list of which creatures can be created and where they come from. I would appreciate feedback on what people think of these creatures and whether there are any other creatures they want added. They are listed in order of strength.

City

Barracks
Monster -> Werewolves -> Serpentmen -> Goatmen -> Giants

Town Hall
Mage -> Archmage

Siege Range (until I convert it into a dragon breeder)
Bound Young Dragon -> Bound Dragon

Diabolical Guild
Demonic Rabble -> Demonic Swarm -> Demonic Horde

Castle

Barracks
Zombies -> Halberd Skeletons -> Armored Skeletons -> Forsaken Warriors

Archery Range
Zombie archers -> Skeletal Crossbowmen -> Skeletal Pavise Crossbowmen

Stables
Zombie cavelry -> Skeletal knights -> Death knights

Basically its monsters in towns and the undead in castles.

[krellan]

Hello, nice idea for a mod.

Now some ideas for your problems. I dont know how possible this is or if you already tried that. But here are my two cents:

1) Sacrifices
You may be able to script a hard hit to public health, when you are recruiting to get negative population growth. Or at least an apropriate redution of population growth. Its also worth considering to have a reducton just for occupying a settlement.

2) Summoning/Necromancing
Have you considered making these general traits to be used automatically before or after battle? I know there is a mod that generated militia in a settlement on an attack by script. Sadly i dont remember the name and dont know the specifics. Perhaps some of the following is possible:
If a summoner has space in his army he would get a few additional units for a battle. Number and quality depend on the level of the trait and they disappear after the battle.
If a Necromancer wins, he can get a percentage of the slain and (maybe all) the captured as undead units. Quality again depends the trait level. For example first level gets 10% as zombies, second level get 15% as halberd skeletons.

Now my comments on your unit rooster. I dont know what your monsters are, but i think city barracks should start with slightly changed townspeople. Playthings or Forlorn might be good names.

Have you thought about over types of weres either as skin/model variation for a general were unit or as another unit in the barracks tree? IRC bears were historical and rats are a popular modern choice. And for the last level i'd suggest ogres istaed of giants. I believe giants would fit better for 4th and 5th level walls than barracks.

For the dragon breeder it might be good to start with cockatrice or basilisk (scares everything, melee, based on wardogs/burning pigs, dont know if they still work). Then go on to big serpents, like a wyrm or lindworm(based on elephant), and finish with a wingless, 2-or-4-legged dragon(based on cannon elephant).

[Ilsamir Lord]

Please don't give in to the "established fantasy setting" temptation. I didn't, and though my mod isn't well known as yet I'm having much more fun with it than with pillaging the ideas of others.

Those building and unit progressions sound good to me. Perhaps, though, this would work better as a mod for Rome - I'm only considering the presence of chariots, dogs and pigs when I say that - simply for the greater variety of unit types.

[krellan]

Please don't give in to the "established fantasy setting" temptation. I didn't, and though my mod isn't well known as yet I'm having much more fun with it than with pillaging the ideas of others.


I agree following the "established fantasy setting", ie the modern interpretation of myths influenced by such as Tolkien and D&D, is overdone. But i dont think this really applies here since the aim seems to be the addition of some new factions based on regional myths. Not a conversion to include fantasy realms. And so far the proposed units mostly fit with european myths. Only the serpentman are a little dodgy since AFAIK they are more at home further east.

On a side note it is very hard to create your own new creatures. In most cases you end up with variations on an existing theme. As an example take a look at the Potter-Verse and compare house elves with heinzelmännchen. I dont really see the need to create new names if there already is a name associated with the main concepts of the creature. It only adds confusion.

The actual mythological creatures may differ heavily from fantasy creature of the same or similar name. Though they are generally more accurate with the 'monsters'.
For example elves range, depending on the culture, from uncaring, sometimes benign, woodland spirits to malign beings, for example the erlkönig. IIRC the wild hunt is also elf related. In norse myth dwarves are also called 'black elves' and sometimes 'troll' is used to describe dwarves.

[uanime5]

1) Sacrifices
You may be able to script a hard hit to public health, when you are recruiting to get negative population growth. Or at least an apropriate redution of population growth. Its also worth considering to have a reducton just for occupying a settlement.

That's not a bad idea, since people would not want to live with monsters. Though the sacrifice option I was planning would let the player choose whether to pay the full price for their troops or choose to kill a few hundred to a few thousand people to get them cheaper.



2) Summoning/Necromancing
Have you considered making these general traits to be used automatically before or after battle? I know there is a mod that generated militia in a settlement on an attack by script. Sadly i dont remember the name and dont know the specifics. Perhaps some of the following is possible:
If a summoner has space in his army he would get a few additional units for a battle. Number and quality depend on the level of the trait and they disappear after the battle.
If a Necromancer wins, he can get a percentage of the slain and (maybe all) the captured as undead units. Quality again depends the trait level. For example first level gets 10% as zombies, second level get 15% as halberd skeletons.


I'll have to look for the script for the summoner because it sounds like the sort of thing I'm looking for. For the necromancer I'd need a script that would let the general convert a number of the captured soldiers into allied units. I'd then have to modify it so they became undead soldiers.

Though I would like to make summoner and necromancer agents, I think creating summoning and necromancery traits for the generals would be more viable at the moment (especially since I'd need to create new agents and a code that would allow them to take part in the battles).


Now my comments on your unit rooster. I dont know what your monsters are, but i think city barracks should start with slightly changed townspeople. Playthings or Forlorn might be good names.

Monsters are the equivalent of peasents, basically non-generic creatures that people fear. For slightly changed people how about 'Possessed People'.


Have you thought about over types of weres either as skin/model variation for a general were unit or as another unit in the barracks tree? IRC bears were historical and rats are a popular modern choice. And for the last level i'd suggest ogres istaed of giants. I believe giants would fit better for 4th and 5th level walls than barracks.

My general unit is a Battle Mage, so I plan to have them look similar to knights. I don't plan to give them the ability to transform.

I choose werewolves because they are well known. Since there are some werebear myths I guess I could use wearbears. Ogres may work better since I'm unsure if I can increase a unit's size to be large enought to be a giant, though they would not be as terrifying.


For the dragon breeder it might be good to start with cockatrice or basilisk (scares everything, melee, based on wardogs/burning pigs, dont know if they still work). Then go on to big serpents, like a wyrm or lindworm(based on elephant), and finish with a wingless, 2-or-4-legged dragon(based on cannon elephant).

I chose a dragon breader because I wanted to give this faction a siege weapon, even though they don't use a lot of technology. The main reason I choose a bound dragon was because there would only be one dragon, it would explain why it could not fly, and I could based it on existing siege equipment with a crew (a free dragon with a crew is odd). Though if I was basing the dragon on an elephant I could have the cannon elephant as a siege weapon.


I agree following the "established fantasy setting", ie the modern interpretation of myths influenced by such as Tolkien and D&D, is overdone. But i dont think this really applies here since the aim seems to be the addition of some new factions based on regional myths. Not a conversion to include fantasy realms. And so far the proposed units mostly fit with european myths. Only the serpentman are a little dodgy since AFAIK they are more at home further east.

I shyed aways from the "established fantasy setting" because it did not reflect the fears of medieval people. Christians in medieval times mainly feared witches, demons, the devil, and going to hell. As a result most medieval monsters were mischievious (would hide things, make milk go sour, etc), rather than be evil and actively ploting to rule the world. Of the monsters that were evil they often had a fatal weakness, such as trolls turning to stone in sunlight. Consequently I was left with only a few useable monsters, such as dragons and giants. As such I had to be creative with what was left.

Regarding Serpentmen I choose to use them because the serpent was one of the forms of the Devil, though I doubt anyone would have believed in such creatures. It may be for the best to cut them.

I have not yet researched mythology in the Muslim world so I cannot say what they believed in (I planed to base it on Egyption mythology).


The actual mythological creatures may differ heavily from fantasy creature of the same or similar name. Though they are generally more accurate with the 'monsters'.
For example elves range, depending on the culture, from uncaring, sometimes benign, woodland spirits to malign beings, for example the erlkönig. IIRC the wild hunt is also elf related. In norse myth dwarves are also called 'black elves' and sometimes 'troll' is used to describe dwarves.

Like I said above this was a large problem, since most creatures in fantasy games were created recently or act in a manner inconsistant with the original myths. Another interesting thing is that the words fairies and witches were used interchangably (Morgan le Fay was decribed as a dark fairy).

New City Barracks
Possessed People-> Orges-> Werewolves -> Werebears-> Goatmen

Basically I replaced Monsters with Possessed People, Werewolves with Orges, Serpentmen with Werewolves, Goatment with Werebears, and Giants with Goatmen. Consequently in towns the units start off human and steadily become less human and more animal. I choose Goatmen as the strongest unit because the Devil was believed to take the form of a goat. Therefore a Goatman would be considered more evil and be feared more.

I may also change the dragons to be more like elephants.

[uanime5]

Update

I've managed to get this mod to work ie it doesn't crash when you try to load it. I still have to change the textures so the character's don't look all whitewashed and, add faction symbols, COA, and banners.

Since I haven't been able to add heretics and witches to this faction I've decided to change the textures of the priests and assassins, so they look like heretics and assassins (though this does not stop priests becoming heretics).

I'll post the mod as sson as I'm done.

[uanime5]

Update

Everything now works except the unit textures and the images portraits of the dragons. Though the heretic, witch, and faction use the speach patterns of the priest, assassin, and English faction I don't know if I can change this. I may release this as a beta, so that people can see how this mod works, while I try to improve its aesthetics.

[uanime5]

The beta version can be downloaded here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/28294376/MyTW.7z.html

Comments can be posted in this thread or here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1323

##Game play##

This mod adds the new playable faction 'Mythological' to M2TW. This faction is made up of mages, monsters, the undead, and dragons. Their goal is to crush all Christian factions and seize Rome. Thought they have many powerful warriors they lack agents and thr ability to make large amounts money. Below is more details of the following units.

Mages: they are magic users who can be recruited in cities and citadels. They use magic to attack their enemies (the game says gunpowder because I can't edit this). The General of this faction is a Battle Mage.

Monsters: these creatures are created in cities and are both numerous and strong. Due to their appearence they scare both humans and horses.

Undead: these beings are created in castles. Though they're not as numerous as monsters they are unaffect by heat and will never route (the dead do not fear anything). They only scare humans because horses do not fear the smell of the dead, not understand what they are.

Dragons: they are living siege engines that can be bred in cities and castles. These are the strongest soldiers the Mythological faction has.

Agents: the only agents available to the Mythology are heretics (priests) and witches (assassins). I could not add the actual heretics and witches because these units are hard coded.

##Installation##
This mod is zipped up using 7zip. You may need to download the unzipper here: http://www.7-zip.org/

To install this mod past all the files in the default 'Medieval II Total War' folder (C:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War).

##Beta version##
This is the beta version of Mythology Total War. I am unable to release a completed version because I have experienced a strange problem with my textures that has yet to be resolved (almost all the units are all white). To help fix this problem I have decided to post this mod to make it easier to check my files.

##Note##
This faction was made using the Mesoamerican culture. Thus all the Mesoamerican generals now look like Mythological Generals. There are no other changes to this faction game.

[gamerwill253]

the mod does not work because when i click the batch file the thing turns black and it says there is an error so i think something is wrong with it.

[uanime5]

What is the error message (press the 'printscreen' key and paste the images into paint)? Alternately you could check the logs folder in the 'Medieval II Total War' directory to provide me with more information.

Also did you put the shared.sd and strategy.sd in the vanillia 'data\ui' folder?

[gamerwill253]

yes there is no error screen its my mistake but the screen is black and it won't load

[uanime5]

When you get the black screen hit the 'return key'. If this causes the program to end then there is an error message, you just can't see it because the screen is black.

Edit 6th May 2007: if you're using the leaked or official 1.2 patch this mod won't work. I'm currently making a version that is 1.2 compatable.

[gamerwill253]

whats the leaked version and I have version 1.0 or 1.1 :D

[uanime5]

The leaked version is an early release of the 1.2 patch. Since the modelbattle file was changed it is not compatable with an earlier release and will prevent the game loading.

[uanime5]

I've made an updated version of this mod that is compatable with the 1.2 patch. The main chnages are:

1) The tilescreen has been modified.
2) Dragons are harder to get (they can unbalance a compaign).
3) The religion is now diabolical (new religion), not heretic.
4) All the units are invisible, rather than white (if anyone knows how to fix this please contact me, I will credit you in this mod). Since the units have banners and shadows it's possible to determine their location.

I will post this updated version tomorrow.

[uanime5]

The updated version is now available, though it will only work with the 1.2 patch. I can be downloaded here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1323

[uanime5]

Thanks to the help of the Hans Kloss I've finally fixed the invisible unit problem that had afflicted this mod:balloon2: . Unfortunately now that I can see my units I've discovered a new problem, some of my units change into a wierd armour when you zoom in on them :sweatdrop: .

Anyway the 1.0 version is now available here:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downloads.php?do=file&id=1323

[repman]

In the german game magazine PC Games Extended Version 11\2007, there is a bigbig extra about the Total War series. Many mods are discussed and they are on the DVD's. It includes a lot of additional material...videos about the development of MTW II,...and more stuff

Mods presented and discussed:

MTW I:
-Napoleonic total War 1 V7

MTW II
- Deus lo vult 4.0 PE
- Rise of kings 2.0 Beta
- Road to Jerusalem 3.0
- Clash of Civilizations
- Pro Deo et Rege
- Regnum Coelis 1.5
- Machiavello 4.0
- Titanocene invasion 1.2
- Mythology 1.2

RTW:
- RTW - the new shadow 2.0
- Rise of Persia 1.5
- RTR Platinum 1.9

Hail to all people included in the developments