Out of character thread III

[econ21]

This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.


*************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

Game settings

*Patched MT2TW
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

The only mod we will use initially is trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
http://www.mizus.com/files/pbm/kotr1160-2.zip

The readme is in the spoiler tags.


KOTRfixREADME.txt
-
START OF README
-


This package contains 2 folders and 5 files, one of which is the readme you are currently reading.
I have included folders as this will make it easier for you to figure where a file is to go and prevent errors.
As you can see, one folder is named "data" and another one inside this data folder is labelled "text"
To install the fixes, simply extract/move the data folder directly from the package into your root medieval directory.
This means that after doing so, you should find following files in your medieval/data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt

And a folder in your data folder named "text"
Inside that folder, you should find:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


You do not need to extract the readme, as this is purely informational for this installation only.

In short (for the impatient and to quick check):

-Extract data folder directly into medieval game directory.
-Make sure your medieval directory now has a data folder (already present before extracting) and a text folder within (usually not present before)
-Make sure the following files are found inside the data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
-Make sure the following files are found inside the text folder:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


Now to apply those fixes, you will need to run your medieval game exe using a shortcut or a bat file.
The target of said file should read similar to this:

D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Where "D:\Medieval\" varies depending on your installation but medieval2.exe --io.file_first should be constant.

If you encounter any issues with my fixes, please let me know via any means you feel necessary and I will investigate.
As per current version, there are no errors showing up in the medieval error log that are from these fixes.

Also note that those fixes work retroactively in any savegame and at the same time also allow a savegame to continue working without the fixes installed.
As such, it is perfectly safe to use and will not necessitate its continued usage once a game is started.
However as per Charter Amendment 6.2 for the KOTR PBM, this fix is to be used by the chancellor currently running the game.

I hope you enjoy the fixes and if you have problems or suggestions, please let me know.

FactionHeir



At a later stage, we may use a mod to handle the 2-handed weapon bug and give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints, but those should be savegame compatible. And I'd rather CA fix that through a patch than we use a mod.

To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol. Details in the spoil.

I plan to give 100000 gold to the AI each Diet (ie every 10 turns). The command for this is:

add money hungary, 100

The factions which will benefit initially are:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary

The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.



Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]
1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.
1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.
1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.
1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.
1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +5 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 3 points):
Duke: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

8. Historical armies

The following rules apply for field armies of 15+ or more units.

Generals - max 2 units
Knights - cavalry or foot, max 8 units inc. generals
[The class of knights is therefore: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights included those great dismounted knights you get in the Holy Land.)

Total cavalry - maximum 8 units, inc mounted knights and generals
[Non-knightly cavalry includes: Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants]

Artillery - maximum 2 units (5 in a siege - if caught in a field battle immediately withdraw excess of over two)
Foot missiles - maximum 6 units including artillery
[Foot missiles include: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners ]

Total elite heavy infantry - max 6
[Elite infantry comprises Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass?]

Other spears & feudal foot - unlimited
[This includes: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia]

For armies of size 7-14, the above limits are halved.

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

[GeneralHankerchief]

Speaking from a serious point of view, the Kaiser would go absolutely ballistic if there was a movement to increase the power of the Dukes/decrease his own power even more. I'm moderately opposed to allowing Dukes to call an emergency session OOC because I don't think an Emperor would allow himself to be diminished that much, and vehemently opposed to it IC.

[Ignoramus]

I'm sorry about not voting for you GH, but econ urged me to vote for Mandorf, and as my vote would not have secured you victory, I felt I had no choice.

Also, I want to keep on econ's good side. He is the Prinz and Swabian Duke after all.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I'm sorry about not voting for you GH, but econ urged me to vote for Mandorf, and as my vote would not have secured you victory, I felt I had no choice.

Also, I want to keep on econ's good side. He is the Prinz and Swabian Duke after all.

He did now, did he...?

:hourglass:

[FactionHeir]

Same here, hope you don't take it too hard mate.

Also, I think that it still should be 4 dukes and the prince to call the emergency because chances are that the prince happens to be one of the dukes anyway in which case it really is only 4 dukes, but it should require all the highest positions to do something that otherwise only the emperor can.

So whadya think about my age thing I posted before closure? :p

[GeneralHankerchief]

Guys, I'm only bitter about the loss in-character. The real-life GeneralHankerchief is in a way kind of glad that he doesn't have to make the extra commitment to the game. :yes:

[TinCow]

You've got a gigantic battle coming up soon anyway, GH. I actually don't expect to see battle myself much at all. I think I shall have Mandorf roam around bringing righteous fury to every rebel he can find. The Household Armies and the various war fronts simply don't leave room for a Chancellor who isn't already in the thick of it.

[FactionHeir]

Actually, what happens if GH's avatar (or any other for that matter) gets entombed? Does he get to play another avatar or be around as some kind of spiritual being?

[GeneralHankerchief]

Actually, what happens if GH's avatar (or any other for that matter) gets entombed? Does he get to play another avatar or be around as some kind of spiritual being?

If I die, I get to sign up for another house and my new title is "seventh Elector of _________." Then I get to wait patiently like the rest of you for an avatar to come up.

[econ21]

We're a little short of avatars at the moment, so it's a tricky question. In Will of the Senate we had enough avatars to go around by the time the first players kicked the bucket, so players could be instantly reincarnated. In this case, I guess GH will sign up as an Elector of a House and get another avatar in due course.

EDIT: GH beat me to the punch.

Of course, it could always be Henry that kicks the bucket first, depending on how well his old man plays. And how much he bears grudges. :wink:

[Ignoramus]

Don't you dare kill Henry off. If Henry becomes Kaiser, then Sigismund will become the heir.

[OverKnight]

You're filial duty is touching Ignoramus. :laugh4:

But Sigismund is older than Henry, while he may be heir, I doubt he will ever reign. Of course I've been wrong before. . .

[Ignoramus]

I know, I know. But it makes sense it real life. I mean, Heinrich is getting old, and Henry will be Kaiser soon. So although I prefer Heinrich to Mandorf, I had no option.

[TinCow]

I still think Hans will get it if he comes of age before Heinrich dies, but we'll see what happens with that. Even so, doing what Henry says is probably wise for Sigismund, because at very least he's in a good position for Duke.

[ArchdukeEvan]

back... just in time to miss voting i see...

well... just a few questions... i assume Austria is still short of charectors?... and with Bizzar gone... for a bit... will he still get an Avitar before other ppl or will he be skipped?

thats that...

[OverKnight]

I hope you enjoy my story. I'm only guessing about the Emperor's intentions though, I have no IC or OOC knowledge of what might happen.

Econ, I believe as a Count, Otto should have +1 influence. It looks like in the voting results, Otto is listed as having no extra influence. This wouldn't change the passage or failure of any edicts, 5.16 moves from failing to a tie which is still failing, but I thought I'd point it out. I want to thank you for keeping track, as usual, of such a large number of votes and edicts.

Edit: ArchdukeEvan, only active players get avatars, particularly when we have more players than avatars.

Also, everyone shouldn't expect that the inheritance AI will give us anything close to a logical selection. If Heinrich kicks it before Hans comes of age, Sigismund will be Heir, and then most likely his son when he comes of age. I've given up trying to understand it.

[FactionHeir]

Hmm if Ignoramus uploads the save I'd be willing to quick end turn a few times to figure out. (including trying to make heinrich live long enough hah!)

[OverKnight]

From TC's chancellor's report, it sounds as if Dutch_guy has the save at the moment. You could always use the latest save already available. Just don't go into too much detail about what you find, time of death and who DOWs and such, since we generally don't want to be spoiled.

Edit: DOW stands for Declaration Of War, FH. Haven't you ever played a war game? :beam:

[FactionHeir]

DOW? They had stocks in medieval times?
As for time of death, its totally dependent on chance. You have a higher chance once your char age hits 60 and reloading can push a char further in age than he normally would have lived, so there isn't anything to spoil.

[OverKnight]

Wow, I think we set a new record for shortest time between the start of the Chancellorship and the first Elector complaints about the new term. :laugh4:

[FactionHeir]

Yeah, time for an emegerncy session while we're at it eh? Might as well set another record :p

[TinCow]

LOL, I doubt an emergency session is in order because I forgot to check to see if anything had already been queued up in Staufen. It's all puffery and bluster, the usual Diet/Senate fun. Though to be fair, Mandorf is self-righteous and feels superior in his new found faith. If you expected him to pander to personal interests once he assumed the office, you should've voted for... well... you probably should have abstained.

Great story OverKnight. I think this will be an interesting term in office.

[econ21]

Apologies - I can be pretty anal about PBMs. (Ask DDW and Lucjan about me and churigeons - poor Numerius never got one, despite kicking up a fuss about them.) In my solo games, the only buildings I really care about are the key castle upgrades. Getting swordsmen and decent missiles are my priorities in Western factions as those upgrades can transform the way you fight battles; all the other buildings tend to give only incremental benefits. In that respect, the M2TW tech tree is rather shallow compared to most other TW games.

[Dutch_guy]

Okay, the battle is finished - and won.

Write up will be here shortly, untill then, here's the latest save:

Click (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1140-1-fin.rar)

:balloon2:

[TinCow]

No apologies needed at all econ21. You have totally legitimate points. Fortress grants dismounted feudal knights by default, right? That would definitely be useful. I personally am a trade freak in all my solo games. If you remember, I campaigned Verginius on a policy of domestic development as well, and I've devoted all construction in Nuremburg to trade and taxes.

I actually think that what we need even more than swordsmen is siege equipment. I'll definitely be making sure we have catapult facilities by the end of my term and hopefully trebuchets as well.

[FactionHeir]

I never build siege facilities in SP unless I have too much spare money and I can't build anything else in that settlement. Good troops beat siege equipment any day and when besieging a settlement, you can get ample ladders and rams anyway, besides siege stuff slows your movement down a lot and cost loads to upkeep.
Also, punching a hole in someone's wall isn't going to help you much if you have to repair the damage you did.

[econ21]

I don't tend to use siege equipment either, Factionheir, but having been at the receiving end of it in AI hands, I am rethinking that. I love the way the AI smashes multiple holes in the wall, takes down towers and only when it has exhausted its ammo does it finally attack. It's like a child pulling the legs off an insect. Only I'm the insect. :scared:

In this PBM, siege equipment might be nice as our Chancellors seem to be an impatient lot and set up sieges with small armies that are then resolved next turn. That means you don't get many ladders or rams - if any :wink:. And besides, I really want to throw diseased cattle over the walls - never done that yet.

But one of the fun things about PBMs is getting to play things your way when you reign (and tut-tuting when others play it their way).

[FactionHeir]

I never let the AI get that far :p
Usually I send one cavalry unit out to take out siege equip as the AI hardly ever properly defends it

Ah well, tut-tuting (nice word btw) is great eh

[TinCow]

Once you get into the habit of knocking down the walls rather than storming them, you'll never go back to ladders and towers. You take FAR fewer casualties, plus you can assault on the same turn you besiege the place. Ballista are largely useless for any decent fortification though and are better used against infantry IMO. Catapults can serve against low level cities and castles, but again they mainly shine on the battlefield. Trebuchets are where it's at before gunpowder. Two units of trebs can make several wall breaches plus destroy all nearby towers. You can even easily punch through both walls of a Fortress before moving anyone into arrow range if you set up in the right spots.

Once gunpowder comes around, I drop the trebs fast and switch to the best cannon I can produce. Gun smiths are so damn cheap that there's no reason not to use them.

[ArchdukeEvan]

in SP i almost always auto-calc seiges... my Graphics card will destroy itself if im attacking... i slug through it in Defensive... and so i suck at attacking citys and castles... pathetic i know... lol

and thanks for clearing that up about avitars :yes:

[FactionHeir]

Same for me Evan. I need to auo resolve most siege battles that take place in a larger than minor city or larger than castle

[TinCow]

Erm... I'm in need of some immediate advice. I just had Max knock over the other band of rebels near Nuremburg and I've been offered "Man of the Hour" for him. If I accept, it will bring Max into the family tree, but I have no idea where it will assign him. It definitely won't be the Bavaria side, since that doesn't exist yet, so I'm inclined to say no.

Can anyone think of a reason why I should allow Max to enter the family tree? A quick answer is preferable, since I don't think I can save the game with this screen up.

[edit] Don't bother. I hit esc to try and bring up the save screen and it canceled the offer. Guess that's an easy way to solve the problem!

[FactionHeir]

Did you save the game before the battle? If you did, then a double reload clarifies which member he gets adopted by.

[OverKnight]

I realize the bind you're in TC. Your character arc contains celibacy, so you don't want to take up a space that could be used by another avatar and possibly get married. Still Max deserves some recognition. I mean you are Chancellor and all. Besides Max could easily undergo another conversion and embrace polygamy. :beam:

Edit: It's too late, but what about the quicksave key?

[econ21]

Intriguing, if somewhat academic, dilemma, TinCow. If it arises again, I would feel free to play it how you wish. I am sure we could role play whatever the outcome is, although we'd be breaking new ground in deciding which House Max was in (the family tree convention clashing with the "House is immutable" rule).

[GeneralHankerchief]

Savegame right back at you, TinCow.

I'll post a battle report and answer PMs later.

[Ignoramus]

I'm guessing you won, GH? Anyway, things look bad for that Alpine fort. I am curious to know what exactly is in that French army.

[TinCow]

The spy next to the army checked them out. It's all assorted militia, let by a unit of mailed knights. Only a threat if they can catch something they outnumber. However, there are reinforcements for it coming from Marseilles.

[FactionHeir]

Too bad captain army battles are autoresolved. Otherwise 2 mounties or mailed could take care of that French stack

[StoneCold]

Hmm... should you guys start protecting your characters against assassinations with spy after what happened to Sigismund?

[TinCow]

It caught me totally off-guard. I can count on one hand the number of family members I've had assassinated in M2TW, and I've played several very long games. The fact that it was one of our best generals, the previous Chancellor, AND the commander of the only force opposing France, just made my mouth drop open when I saw it.

[FactionHeir]

Hmm I can see an edict coming up for the next diet along the lines of "each army commander is to have an escort of at least 1 assassin"

Btw, now I'm really wondering who will be heir if Heinrich passes before Hans comes of age.

[StoneCold]

hmm... smart or just lucky AI? Now the Henry will have to be careful as he is moving towards that area, rt?

[StoneCold]

Is assassin better or spy? In RTW, spy was the better counter to assassins, I never played MTW2, so not idea.

[TinCow]

There is a spy nearby that I was sending to Marseilles. He will definitely be diverted north to find the assassin.

[FactionHeir]

Probably lucky. I'm still not sure what determines the chance of assassination of generals. It doesn't seem to be solely personal security + command as I found AI generals who both had +0 PS but the commander having 5 stars was easier to kill than another new spawned one (after I had assassinated some 4 others) with 2 stars.

[FactionHeir]

Is assassin better or spy? In RTW, spy was the better counter to assassins, I never played MTW2, so not idea.

I'm guessing assassins protect against assassination and spies against spies.
At least my chance of assassination didn't go up after killing a spy guarding inside a settlement in SP.

[TinCow]

After I saved the game and sent it on to Kagemusha, I reloaded and the assassin killed him again. So, whatever the odds were they weren't low. Did any of Sigismund's traits lower his personal security?

[FactionHeir]

After I saved the game and sent it on to Kagemusha, I reloaded and the assassin killed him again. So, whatever the odds were they weren't low. Did any of Sigismund's traits lower his personal security?

None that are on his char sheet. Except if you RP "respects the enemy"

[GeneralHankerchief]

Hmm, odd. I played the save myself and all I got was an "agent detected." Can't remember if he was executed or not.

[StoneCold]

Btw, with no assassins of yours in the region, are you going to use the army to crush the character trick once you locate him?

[FactionHeir]

Well even though edicts 5.8 and 5.16 were narrowly defeated, it does not prevent TC from training assassins and using them.

According to the family tree, it might be that Dietrich becomes heir if Heinrich dies before the age of 62

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well even though edicts 5.8 and 5.16 were narrowly defeated, it does not prevent TC from training assassins and using them.

According to the family tree, it might be that Dietrich becomes heir if Heinrich dies before the age of 62

Agreed. With the wording of the edicts it only forbids taking out "high-profile political targets" and nobility. No mention of counter-espionage.

-edit- Dietrich is way older than Henry, so it shouldn't matter.

[FactionHeir]

Agreed. With the wording of the edicts it only forbids taking out "high-profile political targets" and nobility. No mention of counter-espionage.

-edit- Dietrich is way older than Henry, so it shouldn't matter.

Well, there are no edicts forbidding the taking out of nobility and political targets, only those promoting it not passing, unless that is the same according to the game rules.

It does matter because even though Dietrich might be older, if he the new heir dies, then his oldest adopted son becomes heir. Either way, the royal line would forever move away from Swabia.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Well, if permission is specifically asked for something and it is denied, then I believe it is essentially the same thing as it being forbidden. It probably would have been better if Mandorf not brought up the issue at all, even though he spoke out against the edicts. If anyone wants it changed then they're going to have to wait until the next Diet session.

[OverKnight]

Whoa. . .econ that's a major character shift. :jawdrop:

[Ignoramus]

~:mecry: ~:mecry: ~:mecry:

I feel horrible. Suddenly I am no longer about to become Duke of Swabia or the Prinz. And what's more, Sigismund didn't have a glorious death on the battlefield.

Who assassinated him? That faction ought to be wiped out as an example.

[econ21]

It's a bummer - sorry about that, Ignoramus. ~:grouphug:

No need to make a quick decision, but at some stage, you should give some thought to your next incarnation. You could stay in the House of Swabia as the 6th Elector or you could try something different, signing up for another House.

I need to sleep, but this PBM is proving eventful.

[Ignoramus]

I know, I saw the Mausoleum thread, and I though Heinrich had kicked the bucket and now I'd be Prinz.

Instead, I find that my character's been assassinated.

I had an idea. Couldn't I take command of the captain leading Sigismund's army? I know this is against the constitution, but if you or GH could call an emergency Diet, as having a Count being assassinated isn't an everyday occurance, we could pass an ammendment.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sorry Ignoramus, look at it from an RP perspective. The army just lost their gallant commander to a nasty assassin. They wouldn't be too keen to fight without nobility leading them on. Personally, I believe the result of an autoresolve would be the most accurate in this situation.

[Ignoramus]

I guess so. I'm just wondering what to do now. I'd like to stay with Swabia, but after Sigismund's assassination I'm not sure.

I'm a bit disappointed at the moment, as this has taken quite a bit of interest out of the game for me. I'll now have to start roleplaying all over again, and I won't get an avatar for ages.

[TinCow]

Sorry Ignoramus, even if we didn't have an anti-reload rule, my curiosity test seemed to indicate you were doomed. If it makes you feel any better, a few Inquisitors have popped up around the map (though not in HRE territory yet) and I suspect we'll start seeing burnings before too long. The Mausoleum will fill up a lot faster than in WOTS.

Your best bet to get a new avatar is to move to Franconia. All of their players have avatars and von Kastilien and von Mahren have plenty of room for future adoptions that could result in a new avatar before kids come of age.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Dibs on Sigismund's funeral in the stories thread.

[Ignoramus]

Wait a moment, I think I have the solution. Can I play as Judda der Stolze's husbund? At the moment she is 9, so that would mean that in 14 turns she'd become of marriageable age. I could then play as Sigismund's son-in-law.

Edit: Judda is actually 4. This presents a problem; we are far behind in avatars.

[OverKnight]

Ignoramus,

What else can I say, but that it sucks. You got dealt a crap hand.

Please stay with the PBM, the wheel will turn around again and you'll get another avatar.

It might take a bit, but it probably won't be as long as the number of electors would indicate.

Meanwhile, no one is praised as much than at their funeral, and since it's a character who died, you'll be around to hear it all. So try to get as many warm fuzzies as you can from a bad situation.

[Ignoramus]

I guess it had to happene to someone. Besides, I'm the first in WoTS style PBM to have their avatar assassinated.

But what really annoys me is that Sigismund would have become Duke and Prinz. You can't replace that.

On the other hand, it does spice the PBM up for everyone.

Don't worry, I'll hang around. I'm not sure whether I'll stay with Swabia, as I'll never become Duke again. However, all the others except Franconia are full up.

[econ21]

... a few Inquisitors have popped up around the map (though not in HRE territory yet) and I suspect we'll start seeing burnings before too long.

With the constitutional amendment, when they get in HRE territory they are a "fire all tubes" target. Also, I don't think any player would mind you moving their character away from inquisitors - as Henry skedaddled at Dijon - as it's not a good way to go. It's what I do in my SP games - create a "no fly" zone around inquisitors.

Do we know which faction killed Sigismund? We should not know in character, but OOC it might help story writing.

[Kagemusha]

Gah! Ignoramus,im sorry to hear that your character got assasinated. Sigismund was a great character and i would have loved to see him as Duke of Swabia. I urge you to think of joining Franconia next. Dietrich is getting old and the heir is still completely open.Edit: The Battle report is up.Also the save is uploaded http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1144-2.rar

[Ituralde]

Man that has to suck!

I'm sure that would take a lot of the initiative out of me if this happened to my character. Stupid thing, and it really is the first time I have ever witnessed a character getting assassinated. It seems like your loss is our gain rp-wise as this really adds a nice twist to the PBM.
Still I would have preferred Sigismund to live, he was making such a nice chivalric adversary to my dreadful Leopold, I really wonder where that story would have gotten.

Just sit back and enjoy all the stuff that's going on around the assassination now, and the mourning, and the funeral. And once you have recharged just join back in the fun! It really is one of the most frustrating ways of loosing your character and I hope you get over it!

Looking forward to seeing you around!

Ituralde

[TinCow]

With the constitutional amendment, when they get in HRE territory they are a "fire all tubes" target. Also, I don't think any player would mind you moving their character away from inquisitors - as Henry skedaddled at Dijon - as it's not a good way to go. It's what I do in my SP games - create a "no fly" zone around inquisitors.

Do we know which faction killed Sigismund? We should not know in character, but OOC it might help story writing.

I will do what I can against the inquisitors, but killing them requires a 9 unit army to be nearby, so it's not an instant thing. I'll do my best to protect people, but eventually (not necessarily on my watch) someone will get BBQed.

The nationality of the assassin will be exposed in my next Chancellor's report, which will be posted tonight.

[lilirishman1986]

great i take a break for a day and an assassination and a new war. lol

[nazgul3]

Hey can i be granted permission to say the closing prayer at the funeral?

[FactionHeir]

Good work this year TC. Looks like we can milk the Russians every year for a good 2000 florins now eh? They still have a lot of funds.

Also, its good to hear the assassin has been taken care of. I'm surprised a sub 1 assassin managed to kill Sigismund.

Further, did you demolish all non town buildings before converting settlements? That can recoup some cash, even though personally I almost never convert castles.

Lastly, even though I admire your diplomatic skill, edict 5.29 does say no training of new diplomats. But then I don't know just how many we have to begin with.

[OverKnight]

Ack! Elsebeth is a freaking cow! She does have a hare lip and a hump. :laugh4: I know it's a diplomatic marriage and all but that's just cruel. Good to know she has a +1 piety and a 5% bonus to trade income because of her "tutor". :no: Too bad that will have no game effect at all since she's not a general.

On a more practical note, this will decrease the chance of Otto having biological kids. I hope the game will throw some adoptees his way then.

Edit: Great Story GH. It was moving, and a fitting farewell to Sigismund. Nazgul3, if that's your addition at the end, good job as well. Bavaria seems to be teeming with warrior-clerics.

[TinCow]

Lastly, even though I admire your diplomatic skill, edict 5.29 does say no training of new diplomats. But then I don't know just how many we have to begin with.

Ah crap! I didnt even notice that part. I was focused entirely on complying by getting trade agreements with the last 3 nations (Scotland, Turks, Egypt). No diplomat was anywhere near the middle east, so the only way to get the last two was to train a new one in Vienna. I didnt read the parentheses on that one.

Grr... feel free to reprimand Max for that error.

[econ21]

Ignoramus: your PM box is full again.

I've revised the assassination story to give it an epilogue and since your PM box is full, I've posted it in spoiler tags in the story thread. Please PM me with any additions by tomorrow evening. Cheers. :bow:

[StoneCold]

Btw, TC, are you guys going to train up Elsebeth in charm for a bit before marrying her off to Otto? From what I have read, a princess with low charm is bad for the general.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Btw, TC, are you guys going to train up Elsebeth in charm for a bit before marrying her off to Otto? From what I have read, a princess with low charm is bad for the general.

No, I've specifically ordered him to marry her off to Otto ASAP. They really should have been married already, but Sigismund's death put things off a turn.

[TinCow]

Btw, TC, are you guys going to train up Elsebeth in charm for a bit before marrying her off to Otto? From what I have read, a princess with low charm is bad for the general.

Not my decision to make. The Kaiser (GH) has complete control over what happens to her and I'm just following orders. Playing Chancellor in KOTR is a lot less battle oriented than it was in WOTS. I think all 3 of our Chancellors so far have fought less than 1/4 of the battles that have occurred. Compare that to the first 3 WOTS Consuls, who probably fought in excess of 3/4.

I've gotta say, I think the stories thread has added immensely to this game. There is so much excellent writing in there and so much background for the characters that it's taking this PBM to a whole new level. I thought that the WOTS was about as good as it would get, but it appears now that it was just a test run for KOTR. Excellent work, everyone. I'm enjoying this PBM more than I enjoy most games I pay for!

[Ignoramus]

I feel for you, OverKnight. But then again, political marriages weren't meant to be felicitous. As a consolation, you do become Duke of Bavaria.

[OverKnight]

Ah, no worries. A joyless poltical marriage will make good story fodder. :beam: I just wish it didn't possibly impact avatar development.

[Warluster]

Yeah, the PBm is awesome, just the scneario adds up to that of a Great Book or Great Movie!

[FactionHeir]

Ah, no worries. A joyless poltical marriage will make good story fodder. :beam: I just wish it didn't possibly impact avatar development.

You are more likely to get the adultress ancillary with the wife is a wretch (WifeIsUgly) trait. Maybe TC/GH will be nice enough to allow a roll of a die to determine how much of NaturalPrincess they will give her, as there currently is no trigger for that.

[Ignoramus]

All I can say is that I hope that they skip Bavarian and Austrian avatars and go to Swabia.

[Ituralde]

Bad luck there Overknight, although I must say I'm a bit surprised. I though the Medifix mod we installed was supposed to handle these things. Princess with no Charm and General ancilliaries for them seem to be high up there on the Trait and Ancillary fix list.

Also no building in either Austrian town, looks like someone can complain after all and we get to see Mandorfs exorcism. :beam:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Today is going to be a very interesting day.

[Kagemusha]

Today is going to be a very interesting day.

Why do you think so GH?:inquisitive: ~;)

[Ignoramus]

Because he might be worried that Heinrich's going to kick the bucket.

I hope that no one else's avatar gets assassinated; it's the worst thing that could happen to anyone. Keep those spies active, TinCow.

[FactionHeir]

Stay alive GH damnit! :p *runs off looking for resus kit*

[TinCow]

Also no building in either Austrian town, looks like someone can complain after all and we get to see Mandorfs exorcism. :beam:

Prague is still building the town guard. It is only Vienna which is idle at the moment.

[OverKnight]

I have the save, let me wake up and I'll fight it. I need to be alert for this one, as we wouldn't want to make Elsebeth a widow before she's a bride. Considering her "great personality", death in battle might be preferable. :laugh4:

[TinCow]

Well, since we're finally about to add Bavaria to the family tree, here are my plans for accepting adoptions:

Bavaria and Austria are badly in need of generals. While Bavaria has two and Austria only one, Duke Leopold has a child already, so even if he dies the family will eventually be reborn. With Otto's pig of a wife on the way, his fertility will be low, so it would be best if if the first Adoption goes to Bavaria, with subsequent adoptions going to Austria. That said, Ignoramus deserves a new avatar as well and he's next in line in Franconia.

So... the only adoptions I will refuse will be adoptions into Swabia. I will accept any adoptions offered for Bavaria and Austria, no matter how bad the avatars are. I will accept ONE adoption for Franconia, as long as the avatar isn't totally unacceptable.

[OverKnight]

I have fought the battle and the save is back up.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1146-4.zip

I hope chicks dig scars, or at least Elsebeth does.

Oh and TC, I got MoH for Otto, I refused since we'll be taking care of that anyway. Why didn't that happen twenty years ago? :no: Oh the irony.

Edit: I will have a battle report up in a few hours, I'm putting in a place holder now.

[econ21]

I'm not sure Ignoramus has signed up for Franconia, or have I missed the announcement? I've been working on the assumption that he's going to be the 6th Elector of Swabia.

I don't think we should turn down any adoptions if they would provide an avatar for a player without one. By that principle, the only adoption I would turn down would be a Franconian one where, IIRC, we have no players waiting for avatars.

The reason for the principle is that in a parallel run through of the game starting a few turns back, I turned down a Swabian candidate and got no new offers from then on. So it is not clear that by denying a player an avatar we provide one for another player.

[OverKnight]

I undertstand what you're saying, econ. I wish we had a better understanding of adoption and birth mechanics. However, we need to get Bavaria and Austria up an running. I think TC's approach makes sense. Let see how it works out for a few turns.

[TinCow]

econ21, I have made the changes to the OOC FAQ/Rules post to reflect the various Amendments. I also added in the 'clean' Intro explanation I wrote a while ago. I would have PMed it to you, but it's too large for a PM, so here it is in spoil format.

*****************************KOTR FAQ*************************************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


*****************************KOTR GAME RULES*************************************

Game settings

*Patched MT2TW
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

The only mod we will use initially is Medifix 1.2:

http://files.filefront.com//;6476123;;/

This fixes vices and virtues, as explained here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1375537&postcount=1

Some notes on installation:

Medifix is really easy to install - you just extract two text files into your data folder and create a one line bat file in your main M2TW directory to run the game. The instructions are in the download.

...

Inside your main M2TW directory, just create a text file called "whatever.bat" using notepad, wordpad or something. The file has just a single line:

medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Then create a shortcut to it and paste to your desktop (I changed the icon to be M2TW's); double click to run.

....

If you follow the instructions for installing the mod, you end up with two icons - one runs normal M2TW; the other runs the bat file I mentioned above and so loads the two modified vices n virtues/traits files.


At a later stage, we may use a mod to handle the 2-handed weapon bug and give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints, but those should be savegame compatible. And I'd rather CA fix that through a patch than we use a mod.

Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]
1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.
1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.
1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.
1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.
1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +5 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 3 points):
Duke: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

8. Historical armies

The following rules apply for field armies of 15+ or more units.

Generals - max 2 units
Knights - cavalry or foot, max 8 units inc. generals
[The class of knights is therefore: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights included those great dismounted knights you get in the Holy Land.)

Total cavalry - maximum 8 units, inc mounted knights and generals
[Non-knightly cavalry includes: Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants]

Artillery - maximum 2 units (5 in a siege - if caught in a field battle immediately withdraw excess of over two)
Foot missiles - maximum 6 units including artillery
[Foot missiles include: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners ]

Total elite heavy infantry - max 6
[Elite infantry comprises Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass?]

Other spears & feudal foot - unlimited
[This includes: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia]

For armies of size 7-14, the above limits are halved.

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

[GeneralHankerchief]

Because he might be worried that Heinrich's going to kick the bucket.

I'm not worried about a thing. :evilgrin:

Also, my Chancellor report post has been updated slightly.

[econ21]

econ21, I have made the changes to the OOC FAQ/Rules post to reflect the various Amendments.

Thanks. :2thumbsup: I've cut and paste it into the first post in this thread. :bow:

[Ituralde]

I agree with TinCows proposals concerning adoption, but I fear that the game won't give any to the House of Austria or Bavaria. The past has shown that adoptions seem to have gone from left to right, so I'm pretty pessimistic about adoptions cropping up. If there's one I would not refuse it though.

With Mandorfs recent Man of the Hour thing another possibiltiy came to my mind though. I have read somewhere that a Man of the Hour general goes to the family member that is nearest to the battle site. I have thought about fighting the next battle with Leopold without him leading the battle personally, hoping that a Man of the Hour would turn up. I realize this has many faults but I am pondering to give it a shot the next time Leopold is supposed to fight a battle. I want avatars. :beam:

[OverKnight]

ImageShack is going wonky on me, I could only upload three screenshots and it won't accept any more, so my battle report will be delayed. Apologies.

[Dutch_guy]

ImageShack is going wonky on me, I could only upload three screenshots and it won't accept any more, so my battle report will be delayed. Apologies.

Had the exact same problem, very irritating to say the least...

EDIT: still having the problem, what's wrong with the site. Never had these sorts of problems with it ever...

:balloon2:

[StoneCold]

Not sure if imageshack is based in the NE USA. Being hit by a snowstorm now. My IM is going dead on me.

[OverKnight]

Actually, I waited a bit, tried again and ran into no glitches. Maybe they were loading new porn ads or something.

Yup, it's snowing out isn't it. :furious3:

[Kagemusha]

You guys should try out Imagevenue.You can upload up to 5 or 6 images simultaneously.Ive been using it for a while,when i need to upload more then one image at the time.:yes:

[StoneCold]

Today is going to be a very interesting day.

Now I understand what GH meant with this post... Good job. Also since GH's avatar will be dead of old age soon, reconciliation will be soon. Eagerly awaits the next development. :D

[Kagemusha]

The silence is so thick currently at the Diet,that i think it could be cut with a knife.:sweatdrop:

[GeneralHankerchief]

I know, I want more people to say what an unholy demon I am! :cry:

Would you consider letting Mandorf in so that he may argue with me?

[Kagemusha]

Have to think about that.~;)

[TinCow]

That better?

[Ignoramus]

So we took Rome? Ah, things are going to get a lot hotter now.

[Warluster]

And a open rivalry between Mandorf and the Kaiser

[OverKnight]

Geez, I spend some time finishing up my battle report. I come back and we've got armed men stomping around the Diet. I'm glad I kept Otto in Italy where he still has his Imperium.

Feel free to yell at Gunther though if it imakes you feel better. :beam:

[Ituralde]

Seems like the midden has hit the windmill! :2thumbsup:

This game is becoming more and more interesting any minute. Too bad I can't give it the attention it deserves in this interesting time. I'll try to keep up come Monday though. Nicely played all around and also great from TinCow to let it happen, considering he's Chancellor and all. :beam:

[FactionHeir]

Ah, Ignoramus has a new avatar?

[TinCow]

Seems like the midden has hit the windmill! :2thumbsup:

This game is becoming more and more interesting any minute. Too bad I can't give it the attention it deserves in this interesting time. I'll try to keep up come Monday though. Nicely played all around and also great from TinCow to let it happen, considering he's Chancellor and all. :beam:

The real brilliance was GH in seeing the loopholes in the law that allowed him to do it. I realized what he was planning when reading the stories, so I contacted him and OverKnight about it to see if my suspicions were right. Since it was totally legal under the Rules and was very dramatic to boot, I offered to help them implement it well. I figured it would be more fun as a well organized coup that took the Diet by storm than as a slow argument about whether it was legal. I was just glad I could help them turn their plan into reality.


Ah, Ignoramus has a new avatar?

Nope, but there's a new Bavarian one now. Rather amazingly, Otto got the adoption offer and the guy has absolutely no piety whatsoever. LOL.

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/Chancellorship/1148-5.jpg

[Northnovas]

Well done by all this is most enjoyable. I saw the save earlier in the day and couldn't believe it. I didn't want to post and confirm what I saw till the main players involved said something. This is getting to be an entertaining game.

[OverKnight]

Whoever econ21 assigns Gerhard to, I feel the avatar should stay with Otto's army. Otto could use all the help he can get, and it's a good oppurtunity to get knighted. And quite the story to tell the grandkids.

Edit: The lack of piety explains why he's willing to sign on at this particular time.

[econ21]

Wow - well played, GeneralHankerchief. :bow: When I heard your foreshadowing of a dramatic turn of events, I was rather afraid you were going to pull a Servius and break the Charter. But you have acted in character and stuck scrupulously to the letter of the rules (albeit totally violating their spirit as FLYdude's character pointed out :laugh4: ). And unlike TinCow, I totally did not see it coming. :2thumbsup:

OK, on the new Bavarian avatar, AFAIK, we have three Bavarian players without avatars: lilirishman1986, nazgul3 and Stuperman. It's pretty invidious to choose between them as they are all active, have posted recently in the Diet and joined at similar times. So in the absence of any other clear factor differentiating them, I am going to give the avatar to lilirishman1986 because he's the higher ranked Elector (presumably reflecting him joining the PBM a tad earlier). His 4th Elector of Bavaria was enthusiastic in his support of the attack on the "anti-Pope", so it will be good to give Heinrich and Otto some support in their risky anti-papal venture.

However, in future, I do reserve the right to jump the queue when assigning avatars. So if one player has been markedly more active in the Diet than those ahead of him, he may be favoured. With the best will in the world, people often sign up to PBMs but then find real life stops them getting as involved as they hope and we can't be obliged to give them scarce avatars.

[FactionHeir]

Erm his lack of piety is most likely due to this medifix mod not fixing the ReligionStarter trait to family instead of general.

Such a change would actually be retroactive, so if everyone could please amend the character traits file at the ReligionStarter trait from character general to character family that problem would be fixed and everyone would have their starting piety level of 3.

[econ21]

...so if everyone could please amend the character traits file at the ReligionStarter trait from character general to character family that problem would be fixed and everyone would have their starting piety level of 3.

Is it possible for you to upload an amended traits file that people could download? And provide instructions for where it should go?

Most of us are probably very leery of bugfixing and modding ourselves, but we did choose this mod to try to avoid this kind of trait bug so I think we would be grateful to use your ammendment.

[FactionHeir]

Err my own character traits file is heavy modded with fixing a wealth of trait issues, so I don't know if you really want my own copy :p

I'll upload a copy of the character traits file shortly onto the PBM upload space though which will be a completely default one with only this change.
I hope that medifix does not do any changes to the character traits at the moment as those will otherwise be overridden.

If you want my own file instead though, let me know.

[econ21]

Err my own character traits file is heavy modded with fixing a wealth of trait issues, so I don't know if you really want my own copy :p

I'll upload a copy of the character traits file shortly onto the PBM upload space though which will be a completely default one with only this change.
I hope that medifix does not do any changes to the character traits at the moment as those will otherwise be overridden.

If you want my own file instead though, let me know.

Ah, ok - maybe hold on that. Thanks for the offer but I believe pretty much all medifix does is change character traits so over-writing it would not be a good idea. Let's leave this be for a while. A few zero piety avatars is rather fitting for an excommunicated faction.

I'm hoping the 2nd patch will be savegame compatible and help avoid some of these issues.

[FactionHeir]

Actually if you send me your character traits file with medifix installed, I can incorporate the fix and send it back to you for distribution

(i don't have medifix installed at the moment)

Ah, I just checked the link for the thread which lists medifix changes to traits:


*BoringSpeaker actually does something now, it used to have 0 effect for all 3 levels. A general that is a poor
speaker has a negative effect on authority and morale, if he ends up really boring.

*Inspiring speaker tweaked to give you a slight morale boost at the highest level.

*Governors that stay in settlements with farms, mines and trade will slowly increase their knowledge and skill
in that area. Building the specific buildings still gives you points, but it is now actually possible to become good farmers,
miners and traders if you spend your career doing just that.


I can do those fixes myself quickly for you and add the piety issue to it. Maybe also NaturalPrincess if you want (so we don't just get wretches :p )

[econ21]

The medifix mod we are using can be downloaded here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/medifix120.rar

IIRC, it's just two text files - traits and ancillaries. If you can edit the medifix trait file to avoid the zero piety problem (and the zero charm princess) that would be good. But to be honest, I had expected medifix would solve those problems - if you find it has indeed corrected them, then we might query whether we have installed it properly or something.

[OverKnight]

Could the fact that the character spawned while we're excommed have anything to do with his lack of Piety? We've had other adoptees with loads of Piety. Is this an unforseen effect of the Papal Smackdown?

Ohhh and if we're fixing broken traits can we. . .

Wait. . .I forgot political marriage :laugh4:

[FactionHeir]

OK, I looked at the file and medifix attempted to fix it but half the triggers were lacking the trait addition.
I basically overwrote all the adoption/birth/marriage triggers with mine to add the religionstarter trait to all of them.
Also fixed the princess issue (which medifix actually also tried to fix but made a mistake in)

Uploading onto pbm filespace as we speak. Please note that the file goes directly into your DATA directory and you need to run m2tw with something like that:
D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first
exactly as I typed just with directory adjusted to your directory where medieval2.exe is found.

[TinCow]

Since the Pope is possibly facing his impending doom, I am going to do the following: If Heinrich is victorious and kills the Pope, I will allow him to choose who to support at the next Papal election. (Check the college after you whack him!) I think that would represent a 'victory' in the Investiture Controversy.

In such a situation, I would like to see that power given permanently to the Emperor, so that all future Emperors in this game get to choose who the Reich votes for in Papal elections. That seems like a proper historical reward. Of course, this will have to be done by Charter Amendment, and that likely wouldn't pass if we voted on it in-character. On an OOC basis, is there any support for this idea? If so, we could vote it in next election without any in-character discussion.

[FactionHeir]

OK its up now.
Just follow the instructions I posted above and it should affect all characters in game. (at least it did when I did change half-way through my moorish campaign and recently in my danish campaign)

If some characters still end up with 0 piety for whatever reason, select the character while he stands outside of town, open console and type "give_trait this ReligionStarter" without the "".

BTW I won't be around for the next maybe 20 hours (might get a little bit of time in 8 hours) because I'll be covering a duty around London.

[Ignoramus]

I did a test, and all the new avatars appear to go to Bavaria. So it appears that finally we have four secure houses.

I'm just hoping I get a general soon, as things are moving so quickly now.

[Stuperman]

I'm just hoping I get a general soon, as things are moving so quickly now.

I know what you mean, with no avatar it feel a little like you are following the story, not in it, I just hope I get one before it's all over. At this rate, we will be done before Prinz Henry reign is over.

[StoneCold]

Which is why the peace party must be stronger, it will drag out the game and not blitz thru it.... :D I would want the game to last at least till the Mongols appear. But I am just reading it as a story. :P I understand the main reason for the blitz early game was to get avatars, and you guys are still short of them, so it is a balance of sort.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Which is why the peace party must be stronger, it will drag out the game and not blitz thru it.... :D I would want the game to last at least till the Mongols appear. But I am just reading it as a story. :P I understand the main reason for the blitz early game was to get avatars, and you guys are still short of them, so it is a balance of sort.

I fully intend to play my next avatar as the pretty much exact opposite of Heinrich, so the peace party should be represented fairly well.

I originally intended to have Heinrich go out in a blaze of glory during the final battle with Gregory, but I realized that I'm simply having too much fun playing as him to give him up. :laugh4:

-edit- TinCow, not like my opinion matters or anything but I'm all for your charter amendment. :tongue:

[OverKnight]

Well it's been a busy day. . .Otto crushed some Venetians, was scarred, got married, became a Duke, participated in a legal conspiracy to launch a war of choice, dabbled in constitutional law, declared war on the Holy See, was excommunicated, was denounced by his mentor and former liege, squabbled with his new subjects, and adopted a son. :sweatdrop:

Very tiring. . .I'm going to bed.

Thanks for the great drama folks.

Edit: GH, I think they're going to be talking about Krazy Kaiser Heinrich for a long time in the Empire.

[nazgul3]

Oh this is great lol..i love the fact that we have taken over rome. Gives a reall buzz about the place and gives a chance for people really to take sides.

As to stuperman....IDK i will find a sword somewhere i am sure they are not in short supply after the battles and upcoming wars..Or if u prefer i fight like Jet Li and just drop kick everyone i see lol

[Stuperman]

As to stuperman....IDK i will find a sword somewhere i am sure they are not in short supply after the battles and upcoming wars..Or if u prefer i fight like Jet Li and just drop kick everyone i see lol


LOL, yeah, I didn't mean to take anything away from your speach, but I thought the atmosphere needed to be lightened a little.

[AussieGiant]

Hi Everyone,

I'm just reporting in from Perth Australia.

The holiday is going well and I can see I am missing out on a lot.

I'm going to try and catch up with as much as possible but I can't see too much contributing going on until I back in Switzerland on the 3rd of April.

I have to find out if Leopold has a son or an avatar has turned up for me.

Seems the elections went well. Thanks for taking my voting card Econ and congrats to TC for winning the election.

Speak to you all soon.

Cheers
AG

[Warluster]

yah! perth, perth is awesome! Are you likign it in perth? You should come to East Aus, its sunny in Queensland right now, as it is basiclly every day,every motnh every year..

[AussieGiant]

yah! perth, perth is awesome! Are you likign it in perth? You should come to East Aus, its sunny in Queensland right now, as it is basiclly every day,every motnh every year..


Yeah Warluster I'm a Perth boy so I'm visiting the parents :)

I'm going over to Sydney next week and then going up to Noosa for a week!!

The holiday is going well but I do miss getting on line and contributing to this game. It really is good fun.

I see we are also excommunicted at the moment. Nice work :)

Still no avatar... ah well.

[FactionHeir]

*the 6th elector of Bavaria sits, hoping the storm of emotion has passed, and wondering who the 5th elector of Bavaria is going to fight with no sword.*

That one's just simply great :laugh4:

[econ21]

At the risk of looking ignorant or spoiling what is to come, can someone explain OOC the in-game consequences of killing the Pope and taking Rome as we have done? Give me a nice description and I'll put quote it in the Citadel FAQ as a bonus.

TinCow, I am happy with your proposal for Heinrich (& future Emperors) to choose the new Pope, although as you will infer from my question, I am pretty clueless about the game mechanics of all this. My inclination would be for Heinrich to propose it in character - I am not sure it would fail, given that we are where we are.

[Ituralde]

I think TinCow ran a test in the first OOC thread, where he captured Rome in another campaign to see what happens in-game. I spent the last five minutes looking for it, but somehow the search function fails me every time and you have to wait 180 seconds between two searches.. So either somebody else finds it or TinCow can repeat what he found out back then. I remember most of it, but the summary back then was pretty accurate, no need to throw in vague stuff just to confuse people. :beam:

[econ21]

OK, I looked at the file and medifix attempted to fix it but half the triggers were lacking the trait addition.
I basically overwrote all the adoption/birth/marriage triggers with mine to add the religionstarter trait to all of them.
Also fixed the princess issue (which medifix actually also tried to fix but made a mistake in)

Uploading onto pbm filespace as we speak. Please note that the file goes directly into your DATA directory and you need to run m2tw with something like that:
D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first
exactly as I typed just with directory adjusted to your directory where medieval2.exe is found.

Thanks, Factionheir. :bow: To confirm for everyone else, the traits file you corrected is:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/export_descr_character_traits.txt

Unless there is dissent, I propose everyone with an avatar use that file. I guess it's particularly important that the Chancellor does, but I think avatars may pop up after battles so we all should really use it.

If I understand correctly, we should back up our old traits file - the medifix one. And then overwrite it with the corrected file (it will be in your data directory). We can then run Medifix the way we used to (in my case, a desktop icon linked to a bat file which has the line "medieval2.exe --io.file_first").

I will wait to hear from TinCow that he is happy with all this.

[Kagemusha]

I could live with our ugly princesses and non believer Generals.It would keep good medieval feeling about the game.:clown:

[econ21]

I could live with our ugly princesses and non believer Generals.

Have some pity on future Ottos! And we have quite enough godless types in the PBM already. :inquisitive:

[Kagemusha]

Have some pity on future Ottos! And we have quite enough godless types in the PBM already. :inquisitive:

Allright,Allright!~;) I guess il just have to live with the saints and babes then.:yes:

[nazgul3]

lol yea babes and saints is definatly better than ugly devils and foaming mouths :)

[TinCow]

Here's the post I made about the Papacy.


Ok, Papal Smackdown 2007 is over and here's what happened.

In the game I loaded from, the Pope was in Rome (their only city), which was lightly defended, and the Papacy also had two full stacks next to Rome. I attacked and auto-resolved the battle to take Rome, killing the Pope. Massacred Rome for good measure, Papal standing drops to 0, as expected. The next turn there was a Papal election. I had 80% of votes, so whoever I chose was going to be Pope. I actually voted for HRE instead of myself (Venice) as I thought it would be more realistic to our situation. My standing shot up to 2 from the top, obviously due to voting for the right guy. However, I was still excommed. The new Pope appeared in one of the two existing Papal stacks, which did not die when I took Rome. I sent three diplomats to speak with the Papacy and could not get ANY kind of response out of them. I offered ceasefire, Genoa, and 100,000 gold and they refused. I even tried to gift 100,000 and they refused, even though we had good relations.

Since they decided to be grumpy, I squashed the stack the new Pope was in. I captured the Pope (nice ransom for those guys, btw!) and executed him to make sure I got a new round. Next turn, Papal elections again. I vote for myself this time. Pope spawns in remaining stack, my Papal standing is at max, and I am notified that I have been reconciled. I then send a diplomat to the Papal stack and offer them Genoa as a gift. They accept, Papacy now has Genoa as their capital.

Never saw any 'mission' to give the Pope a territory, but that could have been because I was at war with them and/or the situation only lasted 2 turns anyway, too soon for the mission to spawn. Regardless, it worked in the end. It looks like the Pope will spawn in an existing Papal stack if one exists. I suspect if no stack exists, he will appear next to Rome by himself, as I have read elsewhere. Then it appears to be a simple matter of getting back in his good graces and gifting him the right province. I suspect that I could have reconciled with the first 'new' Pope if I had simply given it a few turns and waited for him to accept my gifts. Worst case scenario is that we cannot get him to reconcile us, in which case he won't accept a territory from us. In that situation, it appears the guaranteed reconciliation comes from electing your own Cardinal to the throne. If we can't manage to swing that vote, we could always whack the solo new Pope by Rome each turn until our Cardinal is the only one left, thus guaranteeing us the vote... LOL.

So, my analysis: definitely doable. Could be complex and annoying, could be quick and easy. Impossible to say without trying in our actual game.

I think the key is to make sure we vote for the winning Pope and then hiss his/her (LOL) ass to get back into their good graces. If we don't vote for the winner, it's probably in our interests to keep killing them until we do. This would be in-line with Heinrich, since I doubt he would accept a Pope that he didn't vote for.

I will install the traits file now.

[OverKnight]

The new character traits file seems to work. I went back to an old save and Elsebeth spawned with a 4 charm. I didn't get any adoptions though so I can't confirm piety.

So since Otto wants to marry a hottie, could we play the last few years over again? It's not like anything important has happened. :laugh4:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sounds good, TC.

I think what I'll do, after killing Gregory, is just play out the save and pick a new Pope right there (it should happen immediately after the old Pope kicks the bucket). If it's not someone I want, I'll just kill him off until I get Otterbach.

[OverKnight]

Do we have a diplomat in Italy to make peace? Last I knew there was one on his way to the Milanese and none on the mainland.

[TinCow]

He's back on the mainland now.

In an incredible turn of luck (seriously, we've had a ton of these) I just fought a rebel battle with Max and he was once again given Man of the Hour. This time I figured out how to save without losing the option window, so I did so, then accepted. He was adopted by Otto, so he's now officially on the Bavarian family tree. How lucky is that? (Just gotta refuse all brides for him.)

[Ituralde]

Congratulations! That really was a lucky twist there. The only thing that would make this even more perfect would be an adoption for Leopold. :2thumbsup:

[TinCow]

We will be taking a couple settlements in the next turn or two. If our luck holds, he might get one.

[OverKnight]

Max is Otto's son?

Very awkward.


Let me see if I can sum this up. . .

We've got a scarred, scheming but "honest" 40 year old married to an 18 year old wretch.

Their two "children" are a 45 year old celibate Warrior-Monk who used to have his "Dad's" job and a Godless 25 year old.

Also they're all nigh-immortal, living 4 times longer than the average person.

It's like some sitcom writer took acid while at a Renaissance fair and wrote it all down.

I fear for Bavaria. . .:laugh4:

[TinCow]

I think we can ignore the 'son' aspect of it. It's just a formal OOC joining to Bavaria.

About Kagemusha's siege reference in the Diet... we're several turns on now. I'm getting started on the report now, so give me a chance to do that before you start asking questions.

[Ituralde]

I actually think that an official adoption by Otto of Mandorf into the Imperial family, as an attempt to reconcile with his former mentor is quite a nice touch, so you really shouldn't overlook it. How this adds up with their current situation is another story, but such ressourceful players as you are will surely come up with a convincing solution.

[TinCow]

We're already working on that. Amusingly, Max's traits are getting more in-line with the way I have been playing him.

https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/KOTR/Chancellorship/maxlol.jpg

[Kagemusha]

Does anyone else have problems looking at the battle reports thread?My Mozilla crashes,when i try to watch or reply to the thread.:sweatdrop:

[TinCow]

Works fine for me, but it does take a while to load. Using the SPOIL tags keeps the thread shorter, but the images all still load, even when they're not being viewed. There are a lot of images in there now, so perhaps it is overloading your connection.

[FactionHeir]

About Otto's godless son, he likely doesn't have the starting piety because the old traits file did not have the trigger in all cases, thus he didn't get the trait, TC can jsut remedy this with the way I posted on the previous page.

Also, I dunno if you want or not, but I think Otto doesn't deserve a charm 0 princess as his wife as the trigger was not present. Just use remove_trait this WifeIsHorrid when you got Otto selected to remedy if you so wish.

[TinCow]

I'll let econ21 decide whether I should do that or not. This is a technical matter and he's as close as we've got to a "Diet Fixer."

[lilirishman1986]

ok guys i have a problem... when trying to load the saved game i keep getting an unspecified error any ideas on how to fix... am still using the Medifix

Also now that i have an avatar what do i do now i just want to insure i dont mess up here lol

[FactionHeir]

ok guys i have a problem... when trying to load the saved game i keep getting an unspecified error any ideas on how to fix... am still using the Medifix

Also now that i have an avatar what do i do now i just want to insure i dont mess up here lol

Did you change ANYTHING about your M2TW between your last successful load and now?

[TinCow]

Chancellor's report has been updated (small updates, so I just edited instead of making a new report).

FYI, there are a lot of battles this turn. Two have been fought and there are at least three more to come, so apologies if it takes a while. The Genoa assault will be saved until last, for dramatic effect.

[OverKnight]

1154 has turned out be as an active year at 1146, and it's not even over.

TC you've handled the Chancellorship with panache. :2thumbsup: Especially so, considering that you had to deal with excommunication, multi-front wars, assasinations, numerous edicts, story participation and keeping us all up to date. :juggle2:

Did you ever have such a busy term in WotS?

[TinCow]

Nope, my one WOTS Consulship was pretty quick, since almost all the battles I fought myself. Well... except for that whole Appolonia thing. For that I had to download a mod that let me switch to the Greek faction so that I could make sure they threw their multiple stacks against econ21. With the RTW AI at the time, they just sat there, ruining the plot we had going.

[econ21]

My battle report on the fort assault is done.


I'll let econ21 decide whether I should do that or not. This is a technical matter and he's as close as we've got to a "Diet Fixer."

I'm happy to make the changes if the relevant players want them. But personally, I think the existing vices are rather characterful.

lilirishman's avatar was spawned during excommunication and is involved in hunting down the Pope (it would be cool if he could be on hand at Gregory's demise). Zero piety seems appropriate.

With Otto, I don't think it is the wife that is a wretch - rather the marriage that is wretched. I do believe the political cost of it has made the man physically sick at least once. That kind of thing might put a dampener on the relationship.

[OverKnight]

As econ21 pointed out, I've developed some reasons in the stories about why Otto's marriage to Elsebeth might not be ideal. I'm fine with the wretched wife attribute. It'll balance out the "trustworthy" label he seems to have gained. I know something like that is in the eye of the beholder, but it doesn't sync with current events. There's probably only one man in the Reich who currently views Otto as trustworthy, if that. :laugh4:

Edit: Wow I didn't realize that about Appolonia. . .I guess playing the OOC against the IC is old hat for you, gives me a new appreciation for econ's commitment to a story line.

[TinCow]

Well, the Appolonia thing was not something I actively wanted to do. The problem was that we had made such a big deal about how econ21's Quintus was probably going to his death at the hands of endless hordes of Greeks. When he got there though, the stacks just sat there and didn't move. It would've totally ruined the immersion of the game if we had let that stand. Since I was running the game at the time, I figured it was my responsibility to fix it. The really annoying aspect of it was that when I used the faction change command, the AI took over the Roman faction and moved everything about. So every single turn (I had to do this for 3 turns in a row) I had to make sure every single Roman unit was completely exhausted of movement points, so that the AI would'nt send them off to parts unknown. THAT was annoying.

[FactionHeir]

My guess is that the assassin you just killed was Sigismund's murderer. The 1 subterfuge assassin you got earlier is kind of unlikely to have killed Sigismund I think.

Btw, did the Pope occupy, sack or exterminate Genoa?

[StoneCold]

I think the pope just occupy Genoa from the pic given by TC in the report.

[FactionHeir]

Ah ok, I didn't see that this tag contained 3 images instead of 1.

[GeneralHankerchief]

I had no idea that you could just surround agents with an army and kill them that way.

Does this work with anyone besides assassins? Like, say, Cardinals?

[StoneCold]

I think it work for all characters. It was one of the solution for getting ride of the Inquisitors. And as TC has shown, it works with assassins. No reason not to work for any other characters.

[Kagemusha]

So GH.Now you want to kill the cardinals too?:clown:

[GeneralHankerchief]

Actually, yes. There's a Milanese Cardinal that's in the Preferati and I think is around our area. If we take him out then there's a possibility that Otterbach could become a Preferati, thus making my life easier.

[Kagemusha]

Il have to start wondering is our good Kaiser Heinrich,the Devil himself.:smash:

[StoneCold]

Haahah, good way to role play the Pope maker... But can you guys secure enough vote for a german pope give HRE is excom and at war with a large number of catholic factions? or the kaiser is just going to kill any pope that pop up beside Rome until a HRE pope is confirm? :D Then he will really be the devil.... hahaha

[GeneralHankerchief]

Personally, I think I'm going to have to go through at least two Popes before we get Otterbach... the Kaiser is going to have a busy year. Although let's RP it as Otterbach being selected right away, since the Kaiser will do away with the Preferati.

Let's just hope that the Pope (the new one that I may not want) doesn't manage to escape the battle and run to, say, Bordeaux. Then we'd really be in a pickle.

[Northnovas]

I think you may have a few Cardinals to hunt down. Otterbach is not going to be a candidate on the first few ballots and the votes to get him elected will be tricky. The elected Pope tends to spawn around Rome if there is no Papal city. Having some troops close to knock him off will speed up the election process.

[econ21]

I think the key is to make sure we vote for the winning Pope and then kiss his/her (LOL) ass to get back into their good graces. If we don't vote for the winner, it's probably in our interests to keep killing them until we do. This would be in-line with Heinrich, since I doubt he would accept a Pope that he didn't vote for.

Thanks for giving me insight into how killing the Pope plays out, TinCow. So unlike MTW he respawns all on his lonesome rather than with a kickass army? It does not seem very sporting to kill him in that situation.

Prinz Henry has just made a speech in the Diet calling on the Chancellor NOT to facilitate a "keep killing them" strategy. Whether this leads to anything, we can let be resolved in character - which probably means it is up to you, TinCow, how you want things to play out.

Out of character, I personally think a sustained "backs to the wall" period of excommunication would be more fun to play out than a "whack a Pope" strategy, which I can't help feeling is a little "gamey". I'd actually love it if the AI sent waves of crusades against us (rather like the Monarchist Europe did against revolutionary France), but I suspect the "cooling off" crusading mechanics and lacksadaisical AI mean that won't happen.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Tunis crusade is still ongoing, and most likely won't be finished anytime soon (Hungary is taking a land route - going west, crossing at Gibralter, and making its way east).

Personally, I'm conflicted on this choice of what to do after Gregory dies. From an IC perspective, the Kaiser will not be satisfied with anything less than a German taking the Seat. However, this will be very annoying and difficult OOC, and I do agree that it isn't very sporting.

Besides, I would like the chance to have another Papal flare-up later on in the game. Ah well, it's time to think of Heinrich's response.

[AussieGiant]

It's going to get pretty ugly if there are rounds of Papal elections in which Heinrich's preferred candiate is not selected and then the new pope gets killed all of a sudden. :beam:

I'm sure we are going to tear asunder the Diet sessions if anyone is implicated. *cough cough*

[Stuperman]

from what I remember, if you have 2 or 3 cardnials in the college and you vote for yourself, then you are usually set as far as putting your own pope in, but I usualle play on easy or medium, so I don't knoiw if that changes.

[OverKnight]

I think it's different if you're excommed. All our allies are non-catholic factions, except Sicily, and I doubt if any of the Catholic factions will vote for an Imperial cardinal, shockingly enough, if one is available.

It would be different if we had a majority of the Cardinals, but we only have two at the moment, AFAIK.

[Stuperman]

yeah, but the AI is stupud, and they see that your guy is leading and don't want to go against the majority.....

but true, being excommuniocated would probably change things.

[StoneCold]

Btw, will the Tunis Crusade be called off once the current pope is killed? If so, the IC situation might be different. The new pope could call a crusade on the HRE?

[Ituralde]

Last time I checked we didn't even have a Preferati. I would be okay to just make up some IC reasons for killing off Cardinals OOC, in that Heinrich persuaded the College as long as it took for a suitable candidate to appear.

My favourite solution though would be for a Spanish or Portugese Pope to spawn close to Rome, hire a bunch of mercenaries and take the city from us! :2thumbsup:

[FactionHeir]

Allies will vote for you if the relations between you and them is better than between them and another ally who has a preferati.

Crusades are only called off if the settlement is taken by a non muslim non excommed faction or all crusading armies are abandoned and the 10 turn joining limit is over. 10 turns cooldown between crusades.

I think whack-a-pope could be fun and instill some fear in other catholic nations and show how HRE is determined to show that the pope is to be part of the empire instead of a freelancing nation.

[Kagemusha]

Well i kind of doubt the whack the pope method will get much support in the Diet. Atleast GH had his fabricated reasoning for getting Gregory.But what kind of legal reasons we have to kill the follower?:whip:

[Ituralde]

It would be the same reason. Emperor Heinrich did not approve his appointment.

[Kagemusha]

Well Emperor Heinrich,just might run into little opposition in the Diet my friend.:yes:

[Ituralde]

Oh he sure will, but that has not stopped him in the past. Since there are no rulings about this case in our Charter, he as Emperor will have the final choice, to decree what is right and what is wrong. Either way, I'm looking forward to it! :beam:

[Kagemusha]

I think you are quite right.But charters can be amendment.:smash: I cant either wait to see the next Diet.Im sure it will be very intresting.:yes:

[FactionHeir]

I think you are quite right.But charters can be amendment.:smash: I cant either wait to see the next Diet.Im sure it will be very intresting.:yes:

Especially considering the greatly reduced number of edicts that can be proposed. Maybe GH and Otto will figure some more things that others will have to suggest edicts on so there is less chance of blocking all their plans.

[GeneralHankerchief]

What's ironic is I actually voted against that amendment. :laugh4:

-edit- Great story, OverKnight. I'm feeling more and more like Lucjan every day.

[TevashSzat]

If a crusade was called on us, it would suck pretty bad seeing all of the factions that are at war with us. We'd be hard pressed to fight to a stalemate. Lets just hope we are gonna get a pope that likes us and gets reconciled

[TinCow]

I would LOVE to see a Crusade called against us. However, that won't be until the next Chancellor's term.

The Crusade against Sicily will end this very turn for one simple reason... the Pope is about to die, so all factions but us will be reconciled. When Sicily is reconciled, the Crusade will end and the 10 turn counter will start.

Regarding Whack-A-Pope™, I'm not sure what to do. I would really like us to stay excommunicated for a while to leave us vulnerable for wars and Crusades. That said, I don't know what in-character method I would be able to employ to stop Heinrich from killing them. The solo Pope stacks may even besiege Rome when they spawn... we would have to fight them at that point, no matter what we want.

There's one more battle to go before Genoa. I'll send that off now and think on it.

[Stuperman]

I thought the plan was give the reconciled pope a city with in our empire, to help with the religion rating thing.

[StoneCold]

That was the plan if you guys managed to pick the right candidate and get reconciled, then you can give him a province. Then next best thing in terms of RP is to play out the entire getting excom thing, maybe get a crusade called on you too, until maybe Henrich dies?

[Dutch_guy]

Here's the save (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1154-7-fin.rar), note I am now besieging Thorn.

As stated in the Diet, the battle report will follow shortly.

:balloon2:

[Ignoramus]

Guys, I really feel out of this. I go away for a day, and now it's 1154 already. It seems as if TinCow's Chancellorship is shooting along. I'm finding it very difficult to follow.

[Csargo]

I really enjoy reading this PBM you guys. Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

[OverKnight]

Ignoramus: Heh, I guess TC had some time to play on the weekend, which I know is an off-line time for you. I hope we've kept the proceedings clear so that it is easy to catch up. PM me if you have any questions.

Ichigo: Thanks! Always nice to hear from a fan. It was fun for me reading WotS, and I hope we're providing a good read here.

[TinCow]

You should be happy Ignoramus, the faster it goes the sooner you'll get an avatar again.

[FactionHeir]

I can't wait for the Library update :)

[GeneralHankerchief]

nazgul3, I have no idea how to deal with our little argument so I just said that you were stripped of your title in the Diet. However, of course, I do not want to do this OOC because we need all the players we can get. Any way the Kaiser could punish someone without an avatar?

(no, the battle has not been fought yet.)

[OverKnight]

Push him down to 7th Elector? :laugh4:

Decorum in the Diet is breaking down due to the unusual circumstances facing us.

The Fifth elector has a right to be angry and indignant, but you don't go around threatening a Monarch in the Medieval ages like that and expect to be breathing the next day. We need to remember that. If the 5th elector of Bavaria truly has murderous intent toward the Kaiser he should take it to PMs and not scream it to the heavens in the Diet.

Or maybe we should create a Tavern thread where electors could go and decompress without being executed for sedition? :laugh4:

Edit: GH what are doing here? Go fight that battle!

[nazgul3]

lol this is great..probably the best decision you guys ever made by taking rome...its soo much fun to challenge authority.. keep up the good work guys :)

[FactionHeir]

Execute him I say! ;)
Yeah, I guess you are kind of limited since he has no avatar, otherwise that would warrant a suicide mission (as one cannot otherwise kill off chars in M2TW)
Maybe strip him of votes for the next diet session?

This could be explained by the emperor banishing him to the Imperial Prison for a while

[nazgul3]

yea that would be a good idea...dont allow me to vote for the next session i will just asbstain..fitting punishment i think

[StoneCold]

Argh,... so many battle reports not written yet... need to read them... Pls?

[OverKnight]

There's really no criminal code written into the rules. If someone really breaches protocol in the Diet, I guess an edict could be proposed to punish him. Censure or revocation of voting rights for a bit? Being sent as an Imperial messenger into Mongol lands?

I'm glad you're having fun nazgul. . .but you will not find the Emperor as forgiving as I am. . .

[nazgul3]

i guess this is a first huh? oh well i am glad everyone else will fun at the expence of my expulsion....hmm maybe i will flee and then write a 3 cantos and call it La Divinia Commedia around 3000 AD and in the Inferno i will place the Kaiser in the devils mouth lol...oh and u will be there too duke :)





*all in good fun of course*

[Northnovas]

Speaking of treason there could be a few members up on that charge. The Diet of today is nothing like back then. We haven't even got to the English Nobility signing the Magna Carta yet so I would think the Emperor has absolute rule along with the other monarchy's of Europe.
We have some very outspoken advisors to the Emperor in this Diet. Maybe we are just taking advantage of his warm hearted nature.

[OverKnight]

Well. . .Dietrich von Saxony, in his first incarnation, after an outburst of sedition, was sent out to build watchtowers by the Kaiser, of course he was Chancellor at the time and could move the avatar in the game. It was internal exile if you will.

Remember that the advancement of your character in the Duchy is tied to the Duke. If you make the Duke look bad by threatening the Kaiser (the guy who decides who gets what for land), he's not likely to promote your avatar, when you get one, or assign him a command. Truth can be spoken to power, but power can stomp on the speaker. :laugh4:

Granted the Diet is in flux at the moment, and Otto has been unable to establish his authority as Duke. But if things settle down and Otto makes it through, well he's not likely to want this sort of behavior.

Edit: True Northnovas, but if the PBM was a true monarchy it would be boring for everyone except the Kaiser.

[TinCow]

The Emperor can definitely NOT prevent him from voting in the next election. If he suddenly has that power, he could simply exercise it on anyone who disagrees with him. RP it however you want, but GH can't do anything beyond what is allowed to him by law. The only people that have any ability to penalize an Elector are his Duke and the Chancellor. Even then, the Chancellor can only manipulate his avatar, which doesn't apply in this case. So, if the Emperor wants to punish an Elector without an avatar, he'll have to do it by exercising influence over that Elector's Duke.

[nazgul3]

yea u are right about that...but then i dont think the diet would be as fun

[nazgul3]

oh thats not good either...i aint exactly in league with the my new duke atm lol

[Northnovas]

Edit: True Northnovas, but if the PBM was a true monarchy it would be boring for everyone except the Kaiser.

Very very true and the Diet is the only way to get involved when waiting for an avatar. It helps you feel like your participating in some aspect of the game so the real absolute rule can't work.
I think the Emperor pressuring a Duke would be the best way to handle a cheeky remark to the Kaiser. That way it can be dealt with in the respective Houses especially if the Duke is wishing to expand his House.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Yeah, I see your point, guys.

Otto. Chop chop. :grin:

[nazgul3]

lmao!!!!!! @ GH :help: :help: :help:

good sport sir...Cheer! :yes: :yes:

[econ21]

In the Charter, I believe the Emperor has the duty of maintaining order in the Diet. I modelled the role on the UK Parliamentary speaker. The latter has the power to expel Members of Parliament from the Chamber for using "unParliamentary" language - most commonly calling another MP a liar. To get back in, expelled members have to apologise to the Speaker. I think we should adopt that protocol. It's purely a matter of form and maintaining a certain standard of verbal exchange - it would not be abused to try to rig a vote by expelling the opposition, for example.

[OverKnight]

Well I hope Otto has dealt with matter effectively enough in-House, but if it continues, we could use that econ21.

[flyd]

Yes, and Section 3.3 was purely a matter of being able to defend the Empire effectively, but here we are. :laugh4:

[OverKnight]

That is an entirely different matter. . .:beam:

Otto has been very polite in the Diet, if not in the field.

Feel free to set up a war crimes tribunal if you have the 2/3 majority for it. :2thumbsup:

[Kagemusha]

I think that Dietrich is happy that this circus of an Diet is moving into Rome.:laugh4: We have had Chancellors storming the Diet with Teutonic knights and electors threatening Kaisers life. Im sure that it will be a good day for poor Dietrich when the Diet finally packs its scrolls and moves to beutifull Italy.:smash:

[TinCow]

Hey now, those Teutons were there for my protection.

[Kagemusha]

As if you had been in any Danger in Franconian capital?Other then maybe from Polish that payed us a little visit.:clown:

[StoneCold]

Hmm... so now that the Diet is in the Kaiser's jurisdictions... any electors feels like threatening his life? :D

[OverKnight]

How do we handle the switch? Does the next session open in Rome? Does the Kaiser have the authority to move the capital? Will we move the capital in the game?

[flyd]

I'm not riding all the way to Rome. It's very far from Hamburg. The Kaiser can move his seat there, but does he have the power to tell the Diet where to assemble? If yes, I'm boycotting!

[StoneCold]

Oh, and all the pomp and ceremonies that comes with moving a capital?

[nazgul3]

Well my sentence has been handed down :wall: ...i do hope everyone has enjoyed themselves in these turn of events :beam: I know i have


i mean no disrespect btw to any of u just thought it would be fun

[Kagemusha]

I'm not riding all the way to Rome. It's very far from Hamburg. The Kaiser can move his seat there, but does he have the power to tell the Diet where to assemble? If yes, I'm boycotting!

I think we Franconians can send letters to him there.~;) Im not going to run up and down half the continent all the time. Specially with Dietrichs advanced age. I understand that Kaiser wants to rest his old bones in the warmth of the Italy altough.:holiday:

[Csargo]

Would it be possible for me to join this, or no?

[Ituralde]

It doesn't say anywhere in the Charter that the Diet has to reside in the Capital of the Empire. In fact it doesn't say anything where the Diet has to assemble. Just wanted to throw that in. :yes:

[Kagemusha]

Would it be possible for me to join this, or no?

Ofcourse Ichigo.:yes: Just tell us what house you would like to join and Econ21 will put you in there.:smash: Ituralde.In that case maybe we should propose the next Diet to be held for example somewhere in Eastern Poland or Dalmatia. Little more action on the Diet sessions.:clown:

[Csargo]

Ofcourse Ichigo.:yes: Just tell us what house you would like to join and Econ21 will put you in there.:smash: Ituralde.In that case maybe we should propose the next Diet to be held for example somewhere in Eastern Poland or Dalmatia. Little more action on the Diet sessions.:clown:

Franconia if that is right, or possible.

[tripwirescars]

I'd like to join in on this awesomeness if you'll have me. I've been reading the battle reports and various debates, and the concept of this style of play seems quite interesting. Swabia or Franconia if possible. I'll go anywhere I'm needed though.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Welcome, Ichigo. :yes: (and tripwirescars!)

Sorry guys, I ran out of time to finish Genoa tonight. The game is minimized on the desktop and it will (hopefully) be done tomorrow morning.

[Csargo]

Welcome, Ichigo. :yes: (and tripwirescars!)

Sorry guys, I ran out of time to finish Genoa tonight. The game is minimized on the desktop and it will (hopefully) be done tomorrow morning.

Thanks, GH. Or would it be better as Mein Kaiser. ~;)

[TinCow]

Regarding the transferring of the Capital, it's certainly worth pointing out that by doing so, all the northern provinces will suffer a decent decrease in happiness due to distance penalties. For many this will involve reducing taxes and income and some will even have to be further garrisoned, since taxes are already at Low. This applies especially to Franconia and Swabia.

[Ignoramus]

Don't sign up for Swabia; you're likely to get assassinated.~:mecry:

[tripwirescars]

swabia and assassination! oh my.

[Ignoramus]

No, only kidding. It was a reference to the fact that my character got assassinated. I should say that the chances of anyone getting assassinated again are pretty slim.

So don't let me put you off any House.

Oh, and welcome, tripwirescars!

[Stuperman]

Regarding the transferring of the Capital, it's certainly worth pointing out that by doing so, all the northern provinces will suffer a decent decrease in happiness due to distance penalties. For many this will involve reducing taxes and income and some will even have to be further garrisoned, since taxes are already at Low. This applies especially to Franconia and Swabia.

I have found in M2TW distance penalties aren't that bad, I always figured it was so the new world colonies wouldn't be impossible to control.

[Ignoramus]

Ok, I've updated the Duchy of Swabia thread a bit.

I would encourage the other Duchies to make lists of their respective Dukes and Counts, listing when the reigned etc.

[tripwirescars]

well i'm down for swabia. let me know what i need to do. i'll continue reading the forums to keep updated.

[Stuperman]

always good to have another person in the Diet. Welcome Tripwirecars