Faction List for EB2?

[Al-Masri]

Granted fellows this may be a bit early, but I was wondering if there was a preliminary list of factions yet for EB2.

What factions that were left out from RTW's EB because of the faction limits could be put into EB2?

[Barbarossa82]

I should imagine that Numidia, the Chatii and the Belgae are high on that list.

[Rilder]

Perhaps numidia, maybe a rebel faction offshoot of the Romani, I personally wouldn't mind seeing Syracruse become a faction... would really turn sicily into chaos I bet.

[Al-Masri]

Personally I would like to see another Germanic tribe to compete with the Sweboz or another Hellenic faction splitting the Koinion.

[Boyar Son]

You know at one time I actually thought Persia still existed in 270 BC?

Some more Iberian factions would be in there, also hordes for civil wars:yes:

[The Celt]

I know this might not make much sense but I would love to see a Goidilic faction! Think about, the Casse will have an early contender before they move on to Gaul they have to fight the men of Erian.:idea2: Plus I always wanted to conquer Rome as Ireland.
Illyria would also be welcome. Along with Chatti, Celto-Iberians, Numidia, Galatia, Syracuse, and maybe a Persian vassal state of the Arche Seleukia.:idea2:

[Boyar Son]

Also some Danuban barbarians would be good. And how 'bout cisalpine gauls as a separate faction?

[Foot]

It hasn't been decided, but we'll probably want to keep these secret, and then slowly release them over time. Just to piss you guys off! :beam: There are some definites that we've already decided on (though we havent done any voting on them yet); factions that lost out to the saba and saka vote, when we put those two factions in.

Personally I would love to start working on EB2 when the next patch comes out, but we'll have to see about that. Currently we are working on the next big release, so that is priority for now.

Foot

[Anthony]

Goidils didn't quite exist yet, but the Erain tribe did (from about the 5th century). At the time they'd just be Q-Celtic speaking Britons though, and would become Goidils sometime around 200 BC. They're something to think about anyway, I know I do, but mostly because I'm very bored, and it matters little if they get in or not to me, so long as I have something to do for the project.

[Kralizec]

In order of personal preference:

1) Bosphorian kingdom
2) Belgae (Bellovaci or Nervii)
3) Pergamon/Attalids
4) some representation of the Achean league - probably tricky
5) some faction between the Getai and Sweboz?
6) Galatians (in Anatolia) - Tylis maybe, but that seems stretched
7) Another Sauromatae confederation, Aorsi probably.
8) A new faction in transalpine Gaul
9) an emergent Romani rebel faction

[The Celt]

Goidils didn't quite exist yet, but the Erain tribe did (from about the 5th century). At the time they'd just be Q-Celtic speaking Britons though, and would become Goidils sometime around 200 BC. They're something to think about anyway, I know I do, but mostly because I'm very bored, and it matters little if they get in or not to me, so long as I have something to do for the project.
I know they were kinda late in showing but they could still be an emerging faction like the Mongols and Timurids in MTW2.(Though I guess that means that you can't play as them, bummer.)

[Anthony]

Well, they'd not be 'emerging', it'd be like reforms. The Errain were Britons who became the first Gaels under subsequent influences and new settlers. They still remained the most powerful tribe and tribute hordes imply they ruled most of the island at a point, and probably parts of continental Armorica and British Caledonia at various times. Gaels weren't a random seperate tribe, it's a culture that emerged and included within it many different tribes. If they were in at all, they'd be the Errain tribe in southern Ireland, who would start out pretty similar to midland Britons, but develop differently as the game went on.

[Kralizec]

I know they were kinda late in showing but they could still be an emerging faction like the Mongols and Timurids in MTW2.(Though I guess that means that you can't play as them, bummer.)

I recall there's a way around that problem using savegame files.

[CaesarAugustus]

I'd like to see Numidians, A new Germanic Faction, the Mauryan Empire (please!!), and perhaps the Yuezhi. I've always wondered why the Yuezhi were dropped, but have have never played pre-0.8 EB. Were there any other factions that were dropped before I discovered EB (just before 0.8 was released)?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Spread a little bit eastwards and add India. Perhaps?

1. Mauryan Empire
2. a rival Indian faction?
3. Yuezhi
4. Numidians
5. Syracuse
6. Bosphoran Kingdom
7. Aorsi
8. a Celt-Iberian tribe
9. a Germanic tribe to rival Sweboz, preferably in east of Germany
10. Belgae

EDIT: Syracuse could be sacrificed in place of either a Goidil faction, Transalpine Gaul faction, or Rebel Roman faction

[Boyar Son]

In order of personal preference:

1) Bosphorian kingdom
2) Belgae (Bellovaci or Nervii)
3) Pergamon/Attalids
4) some representation of the Achean league - probably tricky
5) some faction between the Getai and Sweboz?
6) Galatians (in Anatolia) - Tylis maybe, but that seems stretched
7) Another Sauromatae confederation, Aorsi probably.
8)8) A new faction in transalpine Gaul
9) an emergent Romani rebel faction

I knew there would be supporters, that faction could have so many possibilities.

[Bartix Elite Guard]

I don;t think Numidia wes united at the time the game starts and I don't think we know how united tribes like the Chatti were though I could be wrong.


For me likely factions would be

Erain
Syracuse
Lugii (much needed to balance the Sweboz in central Europe)
Possibly Cyrene (they were aggressive in the period)
Hopefully Galatia (for so many reasons, their unique position as Celts in Asia, their 'wildmen.'
Pergamum

Could split the Koinon into the two leagues.
could split Sarmations though into what I'm not sure.

Just a question for any team member, have you considered Rhodes as a faction? I know how strange that sounds but the city had one of the most powerful naval forces in the med, one to rival Carthage. It would be a fairly unique faction because it would rely on naval power to great degree.

[CaesarAugustus]

I knew there would be supporters, that faction could have so many possibilities.

Yes but which other tribe in Trans-Alpine Gaul is strong enough to deserve another faction slot? The Belgae, or the Helvetii, maybe? The Belgae might help keep the Sweboz in check.


Spread a little bit eastwards and add India. Perhaps?

1. Mauryan Empire
2. a rival Indian faction?EDIT: Syracuse could be sacrificed in place of either a Goidil faction, Transalpine Gaul faction, or Rebel Roman faction

There would be no rival Indian faction Chandragupta and his successors controlled the entire subcontinent except for the Southern tip, which was divided into small tribes.

As for a rebel Roman faction, I would prefer not to see a faction slot wasted on that. I always found it annoying in BI that whenever a city rebelled against you as the W or ERE it would join this "Rebel Roman" faction. Why would a city who just freed itself from the tyranny of the Roman emperor join another Roman faction under a new emperor? I think that the faction slot could be used in much better ways.

[Krusader]

I'd like to see Numidians, A new Germanic Faction, the Mauryan Empire (please!!), and perhaps the Yuezhi. I've always wondered why the Yuezhi were dropped, but have have never played pre-0.8 EB. Were there any other factions that were dropped before I discovered EB (just before 0.8 was released)?

MTW2 has 198 province limit VS RTW's 199. Which means one province gets axed.

And I don't think anyone on team would want thus to expand the map further east. Which also leads to the reason the Mauryans will probably NOT be included as their political centre was in eastern India and including only parts of that faction is a no.

The Yuezhi were dropped since at 272 BC they did not inhabit any areas on the EB map and it took over a century until they did.

Also a sad consideration is that while model limit in MTW2 seems to be limitless (RTW had 255 model slots) the unit limit on 500 is still in place, so any new factions should have a minimum of unique factional units.

[antisocialmunky]

I'd like to see a low-loyalty KH faction that can split into two.

Also, have you considered what to do with Jihads and Crusades? It'd be AWESOME if you gave certain factions some sort of 'Expeditionary Force' - basically a long range invasion - ability or just use something like that to start the second Punic War with a big Carthaginian Army marching across the Alps :-p. That would be fun.

[Al-Masri]

Crap, I'd hoped that M2TW would allow more of the game to be modded but where it seems to give more, like the unlimited models, it takes away with the limits to provinces and units. Oh well it will still be great to see this mod move on to the next phase.

Oh and for another faction, how about Axum?

[Boyar Son]

Cisalpine faction deserves to be there, or the Illyrians.

Also if 1 city is gone then let it be Carthage somewhere in Russia.

And another Iberian faction would go in.

[Xtiaan72]

I can't wait to see what you guys do with M2. With everything ya'll have learned over the years...That's going to be something else.


I just hope there is way to implement some mid/late game civil war action for the Romani. That would add so much.

[Krusader]

Crap, I'd hoped that M2TW would allow more of the game to be modded but where it seems to give more, like the unlimited models, it takes away with the limits to provinces and units. Oh well it will still be great to see this mod move on to the next phase.

Oh and for another faction, how about Axum?

Sure if you want a faction with two units :laugh4:

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Thrakia, Cheruskii, Numidia, Illyria, and Skythia or the Bastarnoz.

[Danest]

Weren't the Basternae the apparently green-haired, curved sword mercenaries in vanilla rtw?

[Kushan]

I'd personally like to see:
- Another Barbarian faction, preferably one to compete with the Sweboz.
- Syracuse
- and a rebel Roman faction. The only thing I miss from vanilla *shiver* is some representation of the Roman civil war and its transition from a republic to an empire.

Kushan

[CountArach]

Weren't the Basternae the apparently green-haired, curved sword mercenaries in vanilla rtw?

Yes.

I think that having Athends and Sparta as two seperate factions owuld be great, starting them allied at the start. Rhodes would also be good, though maybe that slot could be better used.

Pergamon is a great idea as well.

Another Gaelic faction would be cool, perhaps one of the Belgic tribes?

Another Germanic faction would be nice.

Another Iberian tribe? Perhaps the Celtiberians?

Oh and of course the Roman Civil War faction.

[Anthony]

Belgae aren't Gaelic. Gaels inhabitted Ireland and later Scotland. They weren't expressly Gallic though either; the Belgae were counted as a seperate culture group by Caesar, and the objects found in their territories bear out that they weren't over-much like Gauls, though they were Celts. There are no Gaelic factions in EB, though there are Q-Celtic regions and speakers (northern Iberia would be Q-Celtic speaking), who would be culturally related to them.

[Wolfman]

1.Numidian Faction
2.Mauryan Empire
3.Bastarnae
4.Belgae
5.Illyrians
6.Cisalpine Faction
7.Giodilic Faction
8.Syracuse
9.Pergamon
10.Chatti

[CountArach]

Belgae aren't Gaelic. Gaels inhabitted Ireland and later Scotland. They weren't expressly Gallic though either; the Belgae were counted as a seperate culture group by Caesar, and the objects found in their territories bear out that they weren't over-much like Gauls, though they were Celts. There are no Gaelic factions in EB, though there are Q-Celtic regions and speakers (northern Iberia would be Q-Celtic speaking), who would be culturally related to them.

That's interesting. What I did intend my statement to mean was that I would like another faction who inhabited the area called Gaul.

[King Agatholes of Syracuse]

My choice: (In no particular order)


1. Erainn
2. Syracuse
3. Meroe
4. Pergamom
5. Gandhara
6. Galatia
7. Illyria
8. Numidia
9. Another German faction

[L.C.Cinna]

hmmm

-Syracuse

-Pergamon (would really love to see them in the game)

-Galatia

-Illyria

-Belgae

-some Germanics: Chatti and/or split the Sweboz maybe some in the danubian area, some more to the northwest. or add the Cimbri and Teutones as one tribe in the north

-Picts to have some enemy for the casse maybe, although I'd rather drop the casse in favour of another celtic tribe on the continent and leave the british isles to the rebels

- bosphorians

[Rilder]

hmmm

-Picts to have some enemy for the casse maybe, although I'd rather drop the casse in favour of another celtic tribe on the continent and leave the british isles to the rebels



Why drop the casse though, they have 10 more faction slots in m2:tw IIRC

[L.C.Cinna]

yes but like this there'd be more space for other faction specific models

[Krusader]

Well, can say right off, that NO faction will be scrapped.

Some factions that will by all probability NOT make it:

- Mauryan Empire. Including only a part of a massive empire is not something we'd go for. A Mauryan satrapy though could be an idea.

- Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia. Would only be two units. Spearmen & Archers. EB is not supposed to be politically correct.

- Jewish/Maccabee faction. Would be emerging faction and would only really be in one area. More Jewish specific units though are in the works I think.

- Japan. Sorry too far off :grin: Actually any faction outside the map.

- Illyrians & Thracians. Weren't united enough.

[Bartix Elite Guard]

Since the unit limit is the same is EB taking EB2 and possible factions into consideration when doing the last 150 units?

[Vorian]

I would like to see Syracuse and Pergamon.

A question though. It is now certain that EB team is going to mod MTW2?

[Ludens]

The faction I'd most like to see are:

1) Yuezhi as an emerging faction
They had a major influence on Backtria and India, and their arrival would create a challenging strategic situation late in the game for whatever faction dominates the east.

2) Maurean Empire
Not going to happen, but I can dream.

3) Bosporean Kingdom (or perhaps the Scyths)
Interesting mix between Hellenic culture and Steppe warfare

4) Bastarnoz or another Nothern tribe

5) Pergamon
A single province caught between superpowers ought to make for a really interesting political situation

7) The Belgae of another Gallic faction
8) Another German faction
9) An Iberian faction
To give a better representation of the political situation of the tribes. It wasn't just one tribe (or two in the case of the Gauls) against all others.

10) A Numidian kingdom

[Mi Fhein]

i think there should be a rebel successor state that breaks off from the selucuid empire and spilts it in two making it harder for the selucuids to expand and crush the weaker factions in the east

[-Praetor-]

i think there should be a rebel successor state that breaks off from the selucuid empire and spilts it in two making it harder for the selucuids to expand and crush the weaker factions in the east

Rebel persians?

[Fondor_Yards]

1. Belgae
2. Bosporean Kingdom
3. Celtiberians
4. Syracuse
5. Massilia
6. Pergamon
7. Galatians
8. Goidil
9. Spilt Sarmatians *if they could be made stronger*
10. Heh not sure, Numidians I guess

[Mi Fhein]

Rebel persians?


yes persian rebels

[Boyar Son]

- Illyrians & Thracians. Weren't united enough.

Neither were the Germans :p

Illyrians just has to be included, and cisalpine gaul (for reasons I will come up with that will hopefully persuade EB)

[GodEmperorLeto]

Not in any particular order, but factions I'd like to see added include the following.

Starting factions:
Mauryan Empire
Belgae
Bosporan Kingdom
Pergamon/Attalids
Chatti
Numidians
Meroe/Ethiopia/Axum

Emerging factions:
Hasmonean Kingdom (or Jewish rebels)
Yuezhi
Mauretanians
Various rebel factions (Roman rebels), perhaps based on political factions (populares vs optimates)

[Pharnakes]

yes persian rebels

No I think there should be hellinistic rebels, prehaps spliting the empire into an east half and a west half, with the west beining prodominantly Greek and the east using more persian troops.

[Boyar Son]

How did Ethiopia really affect the ancient world? besides bieng a source of troops what did they do?

I don't really think they have done much to be a faction. Unless I'm wrong.

[Dumbass]

You could say the same about Saba.

[Mi Fhein]

No I think there should be hellinistic rebels, prehaps spliting the empire into an east half and a west half, with the west beining prodominantly Greek and the east using more persian troops.

i think instead of being hellinistic rebels i think it should be 'all persian' rebels and i think the empire should dig into the side of the selucuid emipre from arabia and that general direction.

[Fondor_Yards]

Guys, you need to consider the conditions a nation has to meet to be a faction *like if it's on the map, influence on neighbors, wealth, power, expanionist, existed a seperate, unique nations, etc*. You'll see bunch of those guys fall off the list.

Or just read Krusader's post, :thumbsup:

[The Celt]

i think instead of being hellinistic rebels i think it should be 'all persian' rebels and i think the empire should dig into the side of the selucuid emipre from arabia and that general direction.
How about the Satrapy of Persis?(The guys who's coins are in some of the loading screens.)They were another vassal to the AS like Baktria and Parthia, and eventually they joined up with Parthia and kicked the Seleukids out of Iran. (Of course centuries later they would do the same to the Parthians when the Sassanid dynasty came to power.:laugh4: )
My guess is they would have Persian units for cavalry but mostly Hellenized infantry.(Early on that is.)Then later using the reforms system their army would look more Sassanid or Parthian in design.:idea2:

[Rex_Pelasgorum]

Numidia , Meroe, or Indian faction....
Why not Hasmoneans ?

No more barbarians. I always preferre the civilized ones ~:)

[Elminster12]

Hmmm..I'd like to see the Bosporan Kingdom, a hellenized Skythian faction, a Germanic tribe to keep the Sweboz from building a vast eastern empire every time, the Belgae, the Bastarnae(they intrigue me, honestly), the Aitolian league(more chaos in Hellas! fun fun fun!), Syracuse(between a rock and a hard place...sounds fun already!), Kyrene(no more constant Carthage-Ptolie wars!), the Galatians, and a Numidian faction, simply because a desert cavalry-based faction would be interesting. That's part wish-list, part adhering to rational constraints. I wouldn't like rebel factions or emerging factions...I want 30 playable factions, not factions with shiny units I'll never use....

[CaesarAugustus]

The Yuezhi should probably be made as a faction that emerges around 176 BC, because they had quite an impact on the east. They conquered the Baktrians and established the Kushan Empire in India. Leaving them out would be like leaving out the Mongols in a Medieval game. Plus, making an emergent faction will probably not take as much work for the EB2 team.

I also support the idea of Massalia, they were fairly influential at the time the game starts, and they could give the Gallic factions a run for their money.

A Mauryan Satrapy was also mentioned, but I don't see how this would be possible, as Seleukos gave up all of his land over the Indus in exchange for 300 elephants, and I'm pretty sure Chandragupta and his heirs didn't divide their empire into satrapies. If it is at all possible, though, I think that a Mauryan Satrapy would be a GREAT idea.

EDIT: It seems that the Mauryans divided the empire into four provinces, with the capital of the northern province being Taxila. IIRC Taxila is a city in EB, so it could be possible to have a Mauryan Satrapy/Province that centers around Taxila.

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

Perhaps a Kartli Faction would be nice. At the moment of the campaign it's a very unique location and situation...Not really known much by the folk around here I see though.
In Iberia (Caucasian Iberia, also called Iberia by Roman and Greek scholars) at the time of the campaign's start there would have been an interesting situation. The territory is where modern Georgia is, where the provinces Egrisi and Kartli are in EB. Iberia is interesting and different from the other (lesser) Diadochi (Successors) in that it was never included in Alexandros' empire, and had quite a distinquished evoluation. Hayasdan has access to the possibilities Iberia offers if it conquers the province, however a unique faction would be very nice! I think it's about the time that young Pharnavaz would be reigning. Eventually he would be a most important person in Georgia's history, and that of the Kartouli people. Reforms, unifications, social and civil structures and patronage in arts and scripture... Later the Pharnavazian Dynasty would cause troubles for both Armenia (Hayasdan), Pontus under Mithridates and the Senate's armies (However not much for the latter:laugh4: )
One would even have a character with a fleshed-out biography :2thumbsup:

Anyway as soon as I found out that there were a number of Caucasian and Kartli units included in 0.81 for Hayasdan, I started a Hai campaign but cheated a bit in the first year and kind of swapped to a 'Georgian' Kartli Faction. One province, the normal start-of-the-campaign-mode. Pharnavaz was already included in EB (Kudos EB-team!) I bribed the lad, appointed him Faction heir, got poor old Yervand killed and started a whole new dynasty . Awesome possibilities...

Not much faction-unique units (more than EB), interesting location (Caucasus passes plus terrible neighbours), promising Faction Leader...
VOTE KARTLI!!

[CaesarAugustus]

Oh, I almost forgot the Galatians. No more Arverni or Aedui taking over in the middle of Anatolia!

[Al-Masri]

Found this on Twcenter.net in the forum for the Ortus Romani submod of EB2:

Roman:
1)Sentvs Popvlvsqve Romanvs
2) Roman Senate

Barbarian:
3)Sweboz
4)Averni
5)Aedui
6)Casse
7)Iberia

Hellenic:
8)Arche Seleukeia
9)Baktria
10)Makedonia
11)Ptolemaioi
12)Achean League
13)Atolian League (sp)
14)Pergamum
15)Bosporus
16)Epirus

Other:
17)Sarmatia
18)Tylis
19)Illyria
20)Carthage
21)Numidia
22) Sakae

Eastern:
23)Kingdom Of Armenia
24)Kingdom Of Parthia
25)Kingdom Of Pontos

Rebels:
26) Rebels
27) Seleucid (Persian)
28) Epirot (Syracuse)
29) Cathaginian (Barca family)
30) Iberian (Celt Iberi)



This is the current list, though it is open to change
I remind you that this mod's focus is the meditteranian powers, particuarily Hellenic

The Jewish kingdom is rather difficult as it would have to be an emerging faction, which I am trying to avoid, and even as one would swiftly be swallowed by the seleucids or Ptolomatics as per game mechanics.

I am espeicaly willing to move around the barbarian factions, for example casse being replaced by a germanic faction, or the Celt Iberi replaced by the belgae ect ect. The rebel faction slots are also available for changes

[Barigos]

What about culture groups?Does anybody know how many cultures(not factions) are allowed in MTW2?

[CaesarAugustus]

I thought that Ortus Romani's team had completely joined with EB2.:inquisitive: In any case, I think that there are too many rebel factions, which are represented perfectly by the Eleutheroi. The Roman Senate as a separate faction is bringing back bad memories of Vanilla. As stated before by someone, Illyria wasn't united in this time period (or ever, except when a conquering empire united it).

I really think that Northern India should be represented by some faction, because it seems really.... unrealistic that you could just take "rebel" cities (important, wealthy cities at that) from the Mauryans without having the subcontinental empire retaliating with a vengeance...

Is there is a historical, realistic way to incoroprate a native Persian faction other than Parthia into EB2? Because that would probably spice things up and add some more interesting wars in the East.


What about culture groups?Does anybody know how many cultures(not factions) are allowed in MTW2?

I really hope it is more than 4 (North European, South European, Byzantine, and Muslim)

[Wolfman]

Why don't you just expand the map? From what I heard you have more than enough Province slots to include India.

[CaesarAugustus]

No, actually they have one less province slot in M2TW.

[Birka Viking]

It would be nice to see those factions..
Belgae
Galatia
Mauryan Empire
cisalpine gaul
Numidia
and some other german tribe.
:2thumbsup:

[Wolfman]

Ouch! Didn't know that. It would be nice if CA gave them a little more to work with in terms of more Faction and Province Slots. I guess i'll just have to numidia's then.

[Boyar Son]

Damn isn't that list just about what we have now? not even a new IBERIAN faction.

They were not united! And bosphorus? I never even knew they were there own faction...I prefer an Iberian faction over them!!:furious3:

[CaesarAugustus]

I've seen a lot of people mention Cisalpine Gaul as a faction. Was northern Italy ever united under one Celtic banner? I thought that there were just a whole bunch of Celtic tribes that migrated over the Alps.

[Xtiaan72]

Are there actually less MII province slots than Rome? How many less.....That could cripple an M2 EB.

[Sarcasm]

The very concept of an Iberian faction is ridiculous in the way you're putting it. It'd be like saying "Asia Minor faction" which could be cultures as dissimilar as Galatia, Pontus, Pergamon, Bythinia...etc..

Iberia was not a homogeneous place. So, in theory you can portray one of the diverse tribal confederations that did exist at the time. The most important ones being the Lusitani in the West, the Arevaci in the centre and the Ilergetes in the East. There are others of course but these showed a particular sense of common-nation that others lacked.

To be completely honest, only the Arevaci (not all celtiberians), would qualify for a faction spot. They were strong and capable of mobilizing sizeable alliances against outside threats and internally they seeked to control some of the other celtiberians, garrisoning cities and such mostly at a later time (around the time of the Roman invasion).

[Anthony]

I've seen a lot of people mention Cisalpine Gaul as a faction. Was northern Italy ever united under one Celtic banner? I thought that there were just a whole bunch of Celtic tribes that migrated over the Alps.

Cisalpine Gaul was a number of tribal petty kingdoms. A few of them were kind of powerful, but the most powerful of much relevance (Insubres) were analogues of the Aedui's confederation, and the Italian Boii, who just don't seem overtly appealing, considering they were not as developed as the central European Boii. There's an Aedui province already in place in Cisalpine Gaul (for the Insubre vassals). Maybe Ligurians, but they're not Gauls.

[Boyar Son]

The very concept of an Iberian faction is ridiculous in the way you're putting it. It'd be like saying "Asia Minor faction" which could be cultures as dissimilar as Galatia, Pontus, Pergamon, Bythinia...etc..

Iberia was not a homogeneous place. So, in theory you can portray one of the diverse tribal confederations that did exist at the time. The most important ones being the Lusitani in the West, the Arevaci in the centre and the Ilergetes in the East. There are others of course but these showed a particular sense of common-nation that others lacked.

To be completely honest, only the Arevaci (not all celtiberians), would qualify for a faction spot. They were strong and capable of mobilizing sizeable alliances against outside threats and internally they seeked to control some of the other celtiberians, garrisoning cities and such mostly at a later time (around the time of the Roman invasion).

Thats exactly what I was talking about...

[Sarcasm]

Sorry, not your post I was referring too, I was talking about the one on Ortus Romani. My bad.

[Boyar Son]

Really! but another Ibrian faction would at least portray the number of factions there even though there was alot. You think the Numantine could be added?

[Sarcasm]

I can tell you my opinion, which some members share too. An African faction would be a great way to mix around in Carthage's backdoor, and keep them busy (since right now it's pretty much their playing ground with no more sand wars to fight and Ptolemies now actually getting a challenge from the Seleukids).

[Sir Edward]

If another african faction is needed why not consider Cyrene? Didn't Magas rule it independently at the start of EB's time frame? It would be great to have it as a thorn in the side of both Carthage and Egypt. Also would be a nice solution to the sand wars.

[Rilder]

Why don't you just expand the map? From what I heard you have more than enough Province slots to include India.

EB has to lose 1 province in m2:tw, the maps not expanding...

[russia almighty]

ehh even though as an Ethiopian I would love to see an Axum faction they wouldn't be at there highest level of power till the 4th century A.D onward.

[Sarcasm]

If another african faction is needed why not consider Cyrene? Didn't Magas rule it independently at the start of EB's time frame? It would be great to have it as a thorn in the side of both Carthage and Egypt. Also would be a nice solution to the sand wars.

Indeed. Kyrene is one of the faction's to be considered, among others, but one of the reasons to include it will not be the sand wars. AFAIK, and in my personal experience, that doesn't happen anymore.

[Swebozbozboz]

I vote roman civil war factions, to keep it interesting.


and without a doubt more iberian factions. celtiberians?

and an eastern germanic faction to keep the sweboz from invading the steppes, i wish they would try to invade gaul more.

[CaesarAugustus]

I really think that Northern India should be represented by some faction, because it seems really.... unrealistic that you could just take "rebel" cities (important, wealthy cities at that) from the Mauryans without having the subcontinental empire retaliating with a vengeance...

I really hate to quote myself, but I just thought of a potential solution to this. I am mod-retarded so correct me if I'm wrong, but would it not be possible to spawn large Eleutheroi armies in the corner of N. India when a faction takes a city there? That would represent the emperor of the Mauryans retaliating, so if you defeat the invaders then you have the provinces for good.

If I'm not mistaken Carthage often gets attacked by Numidian Eleutheroi at the start of the game, though I'm not sure if that is scripted or not. If it is though, then spawning a "Mauryan" army would eliminate the need for an Indian half-faction, and the game would be just a little more realistic. Like I said earlier, you cannot just expect to take rich cities from an empire that rivals the Successor states in power without a counter-attack.

If this is possible it could even be in EB 1.0, but I'm sure the team has more important things to do, just a humble suggestion.

In EB2, the Mauryan Satrapy/Province that Krusader said is possible is a much better idea, though.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Spawning an army by script is quite possible I believe.

[Ailfertes]

1) Roman 'civil war' faction, since it was such an important thing in late republic history. The M2TW system probably offers more possibilities than the BI one, I think, since in M2 your generals and armies can betray you on the field rather than cities that rebel. Maybe certain traits and conditions (like selfish and maybe a new 'over-ambitious' trait, than a minimum of 25 regions or so as a condition + marian reforms) could aid in this.
2) Belgae
3) Kartli faction indeed seems reasonable.
4) Pergamon
5) Tauri (don't know much about their history though, just seen them on an ancient map)
6) Yuezhi as an appearing faction.
7) Erainn
8) Teutones?
9) Galatians
10) The Soviet Union :2thumbsup: ~;)

[TunaMaker]

I would like to echo the call for a Cyrene faction. I think they would be very fun to play. Perhaps they would look like a mix of Koinon Hellenon, Egypt, Carthage, and Numidia.

TM

[Kralizec]

10) The Soviet Union :2thumbsup: ~;)

I don't know. They'd have to be an emerging faction and the party structure is impossible to represent given the RTW family system. Plus I predict the forum will be flooded with a "red tide" of communists complaining that the faction isn't accurately represented. The EB team probably shouldn't touch this.

:clown:

[Boyar Son]

We could always spawn invasions and sometimes raides by the Dal Raidans.

[Will_YouFight_ForME]

i would think it would be a faction that would last for maybe the entire campaign or have some major impact on history

i would hope they would add a rebel romanii faction
that only appear when scripted (CIVIL WAR)

a Numidian faction would be good, to control cathage expansion
parthia would be good?
i'm not so sure about my eastern empires but does Parthia exist already in EB?

anyways

1. Rebel romanii faction
2. Numidian faction
3. 2nd germanic faction

[CaesarAugustus]

Parthia exists in EB as the Pahlava.

[Anthony]

We could always spawn invasions and sometimes raides by the Dal Raidans.

Dal Riadans wouldn't exist yet by a longshot.

[Boyar Son]

Dal Riadans wouldn't exist yet by a longshot.

Really? damn...

[Sarcasm]

I fail to see why the Romans would get a rebel faction over everyone else. It's not like civil wars were uncommon among the empires of the time, in fact being one of the major factors for the rise of Rome. Think about it.

[CaesarAugustus]

I agree with Sarcasm, in vanilla BI I always found it annoying that if a province rebelled from Romans it would join this super-faction that ranged from Germania to Africa. Some people just want their independance, they don't want to become part of a new Roman Empire.

[Boyar Son]

I agree with Sarcasm, in vanilla BI I always found it annoying that if a province rebelled from Romans it would join this super-faction that ranged from Germania to Africa. Some people just want their independance, they don't want to become part of a new Roman Empire.

Thats when the gold, women, and swords come in.

[Swebozbozboz]

When you attack the celtiberians [near numantia i believe] currently the script spawns a couple stacks to defend it. so script armies are totally plausible and already working.


I understand this mod is trying to focus on all the other more unique factions but most players seem to have a romani campaign in progress. The civil war system sure didn't work in vanilla but the EB team is amazing and i'm sure with their super-human-beserker-scripting abilities they could make it smooth and enjoyable. It just seems a super complete roman faction would be more important than a unit-limited small, one-city faction who really didn't impact history much.

that's my two-cents.

[Foot]

I understand this mod is trying to focus on all the other more unique factions but most players seem to have a romani campaign in progress. The civil war system sure didn't work in vanilla but the EB team is amazing and i'm sure with their super-human-beserker-scripting abilities they could make it smooth and enjoyable. It just seems a super complete roman faction would be more important than a unit-limited small, one-city faction who really didn't impact history much.

that's my two-cents.

Thats why we wouldn't choose such a faction. But MTW2 has only given us 10 more factions, and there are a lot of kingdoms and tribes that deserve to be mentioned, who both had an impact and could reasonably be represented in game.

Of course, we wouldn't mind if a fan or group of fan created a mod for EB2 that got rid of one faction and replaced it with a shadow faction.

Foot

[Boyar Son]

You Know foot, these factions could be hordes, just to have an hounorable mention.

[Anthony]

Really? damn...

The Dalriata tribe only emerge as notably distinct in the early dark ages. They'd likely first emerge though as one of the early Goidelic tribes of Ireland sometime around or after 200 BC, but they'd not be called Dal Riada, and would likely be of minor consequence. Early Gaelic raids on Britain came from many tribes at once; the proto-Dalriata would likely be the vassals of a stronger tribe at the time. The British kingdom of Gaelic Dal Riada wouldn't emerge for over half a millenium though.

[Boyar Son]

Gotcha. Is that where English got he word "raid" ?

[Anthony]

No, 'raid' comes from Middle English. They said the Scots 'rade' upon horseback (not 'rode') when attacking outlying settlements suddenly. From there came connecting 'rading' with sudden attacks. 'Raid' was the Scots spelling for it.

[Wolfman]

Anthony I was told that the Veneti or Ligurians were a powerful in Cisalpine Gaul during this time. am I misinformed???

[Anthony]

Ligurians weren't Celts, but a pre-Celtic people, and the Veneti of Cisalpine Gaul weren't that powerful. I mentioned Ligurians earlier. The powerful Veneti inhabited Armorica (modern Brittany). There were Boii there. None of the them though are really that strong and would probably be destroyed quickly by neighboring Gauls (under the Aedui), or by the Romans.

[Wolfman]

I meant the Adriatic Veneti. What About the Helvetti? where they powerful

[Anthony]

The Helveti at the time were probably dependents of Noricum or the central European Boii (either of whom would probably be decent factions), so wouldn't be viable as an independent faction. It wouldn't be till their migrations that they'd likely be seen as an established, totally independent people.

[Wolfman]

Ok thanks Anthony. History is my favorite subject and I always like to make sure I have correct information. It's nice to have real historians around. Again thanks Anthony.

[Alkiviadis]

Aetolian League
Achaean League
Syracuse
Maybe Pergamos,Massalia
and i don't know for this time period (maybe would be early) Helvetii,Belgae,Jewish rebels?

[King Agatholes of Syracuse]

- Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia. Would only be two units. Spearmen & Archers. EB is not supposed to be politically correct.

Politically correct? What do you mean by that?

[Wolfman]

I second King Agatholes of Syracuse question about you saying EB isn't politically correct. I thought EB was all about Historical Accuracy which is political correctness. They were named Ethiopians by the Greeks, who said they were pious and honorable warriors. They had to have had some type of military presence since they resisted the armies of Rome and Islam, and didn't fall into decline until the 9th or 10th century A.D.. They also were the only African nation besides Liberia that remained independent during the Great Scramble. During WWII, Mussolini had to use gas to conquer Ethiopia and even then he didn't hold it that long since he conquered it in 1936 and it revolted in 1941. So in two-thousand years they were only conquered twice. I must ask what do you mean about Illyria not being united enough? They had there own kingdom and king. That constitutes a faction to me. And didn't the King of Illyria send 20,000 thousand troops to the King of Macedon to defend his kingdom against a Celtic Invasion?

P.S. I am not trying to be rude. These are just facts I have found in Encyclopedias like Brittanica, Encarta, and my local library . I apologize if I offend anyone in any way and thank the people at EB for this wonderful mod.
Wolfman25

[paullus]

Hey Wolfman,

While the Ethiopians may have been good and pious warriors in the eyes of the Greeks, there are two problems. One, the Greeks had a tendency to romanticize people who were a long way off, such that they were either very good or very bad, or a mixture of both. So the Ethiopians are very nice in the Greek view, just a little behind the times. Which relates to point two, which is that the 'Ethiopian' kingdoms, of which there were several in the Hellenistic period, were rather lacking in military technology, such that the existing regional units already in EB would constitute the entire roster.

As for the Illyrians, I'm pretty sure its a single tribe of them, I think the Autaristai, who offer soldiers to Ptolemy Keraunos in 279 to help him against the Galatian armies. Its worth noting that these are a single tribe of pseudo-Illyrians; they were in no sense politically united with the other Illyrian tribes scattered along the Dalmatian coast. There's also a good chance the "20,000" is a heavily exaggerated number. The story comes down from Pausanias, doesn't it? He's not known for understatement, if you know what I mean. Additionally, by the 272 start date, the Autaristai had been further weakened by the Skordiskoi, the Celtic survivors of Brennos' invasion of Greece who settled in lands south of the Danube, lands which formerly been ruled by Autaristai to the west, Paionians to the south, Triballoi to the east, and independent Getic tribes to the north. So the Autaristai are not really a viable option.

While I don't know that I'd support Meroe, Kush, or an Illyrian tribe, I am seeing some interesting ideas put forth here! Lots of interest in adding factions to Europe, and I can't say I disagree with that notion. A Baltic faction might be in order...

[Fondor_Yards]

What Krusader means I think is just because a faction/people were around in this time, doesn't mean they are auto getting a faction. Politically correct is not Historical Accuracy. Political correctness is calling someone "African-American" instead of "Black."

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Aetolian League
Achaean League
Where should theese two be placed, regarding that EB has to give up a province and Greece is reallly "full"?

[Krusader]

Maybe the term 'political correctness' wasn't the correct one to use.

What I meant is that to me it seems very many are suggesting Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia & Jews simply because they are blacks & Jews and their suggestions are not based on historical reasons.

Many seem to want to have Meroe/Kush/Ethiopia as factions solely because they are black factions. Problem with these factions is that within the EB time period they didn't expand or anything or had any great impact (at this point). I don't know much about African history, but as I recall from the little I know these kingdoms gained in strength and territory much later. Ethiopia or Axum's golden age was in 4th century AD I think.
Indeed the Nubians did repulse a Roman army but that alone doesn't mean they deserve to be a faction. And also...what fun to play a faction with two units? Spearmen & archers.

Also I think that's why someone nominates a Jewish faction (Hasmoneans (sp?) or Maccabeans). The Jews played an important part during Hellenistic Age and did indeed revolt, however they revolted because Antiochus III persecuted their religion due to a mistake. However, the main reason is that the faction would be an emerging faction and core area would really only be Judea. From my view it seems that as long as the Jews held Judea they were content. I would rather maybe make it a bit more rebellious and make some more Jewish units, although with the 500 unit limit, we might use it on something else.

The Mauryan Empire I think people are mentioning also just because they are Indians, although they were a powerful empire. However as stated before, the absoloute political centre was in eastern India and a massive chunk of the empire would not be on the map, which is bad. Also the Mauryans didn't expand either in Central-Asia.
A suggestion that has been put forth though is to have a Gandharan "satrapy" in the Indus valley.

[Al-Masri]

I agree with Krusader whats the fun of only having a faction with two units or one that never expands.

BTW saying Black instead of African-American is not politically correct, it is just correct. African-Americans are people who immigrate to America from Africa, like myself. The black people in America who have more than 4 generations that live in America are just Americans.

[CaesarAugustus]

Where should theese two be placed, regarding that EB has to give up a province and Greece is reallly "full"?

I think that these are just leagues that divide the KH. As for losing one province, I suggest losing Cydaus in Africa. It just doesn't seem that important *compared to other EB provinces*.


A suggestion that has been put forth though is to have a Gandharan "satrapy" in the Indus valley.

IMO this is definently worthy of a faction slot, much more so than a Romani rebel faction. The Kingdom of Gandhara lasted from the 6th century BC to the 11th century AD (under various conquerors, and semi- autonomy, of course).

Its main cities were Purushapura and Takshashila, both of which are cities in EB, I think (Takshashila is definently one). Here is a full Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara). It is also qutie plausible that if they gained their freedom like the Seleukid Satrapies, they would expand into Cental Asia, as they couldn't hope to conquer more land from the vast Mauryan empire to the south.

[Dumbass]

If you want to lose a settlement, you could also go for one of those far north settlements by the baltic sea, seeing as they are soo far away and uselessto make an impact. I think cydaus could be repositioned for if a numidan or the other north african faction was implemented, meaning more settlements for them.

[King Agatholes of Syracuse]

Politically correct are names like: Eskimo's to Inuit's or Indian to Native Americans.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I'm sure we wouldn't place an Aitolian and Achaean faction both in the game Centurio.

[Wolfman]

Ok thank you I apologize. I have been reading Herodotus lately so he also influenced my views. again sorry for the misunderstanding. By the way Edwardvs Primvs what does your comment about African American and Black have to do with my question??? And what are Asian Indians that migrate to Africa who still practise there cuktural and religious beliefs?? Just trying to understand were your coming from.

[Al-Masri]

Ok thank you I apologize. I have been reading Herodotus lately so he also influenced my views. again sorry for the misunderstanding. By the way Edwardvs Primvs what does your comment about African American and Black have to do with my question??? And what are Asian Indians that migrate to Africa who still practise there cuktural and religious beliefs?? Just trying to understand were your coming from.

It was mostly a rant and a respond to what Fonder_Yards said, but in regards to your question, do you want to know what Africans call them or what they like to be called?

[Wolfman]

I'd like to know both

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Please everybody don't shoot me....specially the Casse fans and the EB Casse team....but just a thought...couldn't the Casse be dropped for a more desirable new faction....just a question PLEASE DON'T BARBECUE ME ALIVE :laugh4: ....if whta I just said is sacrilegous to say the least I will go to my corner and wear my hat ..:dunce2:

[Krusader]

Please everybody don't shoot me....specially the Casse fans and the EB Casse team....but just a thought...couldn't the Casse be dropped for a more desirable new faction....just a question PLEASE DON'T BARBECUE ME ALIVE :laugh4: ....if whta I just said is sacrilegous to say the least I will go to my corner and wear my hat ..:dunce2:

:inquisitive:
The Casse are among our most popular factions it seems. Plus letting British Isles be totally empty to cram another Greek faction in?

Actually Im fairly sure we'll end up having two British Isles factions.

[Quilts]

Hi,

Just by way of comment. There seems to be alot of 'they didn't do anything' etc being used as a means for ruling out several faction possibilities. This may be true but we should consider that some of these potential factions did not achieve anything because of what they came up against.....in our history. RTW and it's Mods are 'creating' a new history, so I personally fail to see what really did happen as a precursor for disqualification. Due to limited factions slots there is a need to be 'ruthless' with potential candidates, but perhaps not as ruthless as some would indicate. I doubt the Casse or Lusotani would feature were we to get too pedantic about a factions impact on the ancient world.

My 2 cents.....

On the assumption that there's 10 new faction slots available I would vote for-

1. Bithynia. Didn't achieve a great deal in our history, but with a slightly more productive gene they may have gone onto great things. They were the major rival of Pontus until incorporated into the Roman Sphere.

2. An eastern Gallic faction, perhaps Scordisci. The Galatians could even be deemed as part of this faction, perhaps even the Capitol. They caused major headaches for the Macedonians and then Romans at various times.

3. Syracuse, or a Western Greek alliance incorporating Syracuse, Massilia, .... Not terribly historic but a desent way of representing Western Greek influences in the area.

4. Seleucid Rebels. To represent alot of breakaway states- Jewish, Commagene, Gordyene? etc

5. Nabateaen Kingdom? Not sure about this one, but they did fight and beat most everybody who took them on. Could have been players were the circumstances right.

6. Roman Rebels. If possible, only appearing in heavily influenced Roman regions. The rest should be 'normal' rebels. Not sure whether this is possible.

7. Attalid Pergamene. As Bithynia. Let down by ability to reproduce in our history, but.....

8. Numidian Tribe. Whichever tribe is deemded most appropriate.

9. Another German federation. Perhaps Cimbri/Teutones with the ability to Horde.....

10. The most influencial Illyrian tribe. Probably Queen ?????. Her husband before had a much better handle on things and may have been able to unite more of Illyria that we see in our history.

Cheers,

Quilts

[Boyar Son]

Queen teuta, and before king Bardyllis

[Sarcasm]

The real difference I suppose is that you consider "impact on the ancient world" as merely impact on the classical world, and then the "wild" forces that oppose it from the outside.

[kalkwerk]

Id like to see emerging factions.

Cimbre/teutones (horde)
helvetii (horde)
parthians (if eliminated early reemerging as a horde)
rebel factions for rome, seleucids, ptolemaic kingdom
spartacus!

[Wolfman]

I am going to revise my faction list.

1. Bastarnae
2. Belgae
3. Chatti
4. Masaesyles (Western Numidian Faction)
5. Massyli (Eastern Numidian Faction)
6. Cyrenaica
7. Pergamon
8. Syracuse
9. Mauryan Satrap
10. Galatian Tribe

[Domitius Ulpianus]

:inquisitive:
The Casse are among our most popular factions it seems. Plus letting British Isles be totally empty to cram another Greek faction in?

Actually Im fairly sure we'll end up having two British Isles factions.


Umm, I never said anything about more greeks...but as I said It was just a question...I never would have guesssed the Casse are popular...umm maybe I should try them next :beam:

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Umm, I never said anything about more greeks...but as I said It was just a question...I never would have guesssed the Casse are popular...umm maybe I should try them next :beam:


Actually adding another british faction would porbably be a good Idea...The reason I picked the Casse for "elimination" was a comment I read before about not being as exciting because you only fight rebels for quite a while at the beggining, but I must confess I have not play with them.


ack, sorry for double posting I meant to edit my post...no idea how this happened..silly me.

[Wolfman]

The Casse are anything but boring. They are one of the best factions to play.

[Vorian]

Id like to see emerging factions.

Cimbre/teutones (horde)
helvetii (horde)
parthians (if eliminated early reemerging as a horde)
rebel factions for rome, seleucids, ptolemaic kingdom
spartacus!


Factions that horde have been terribly made in BI (I haven't played MTW2, do they have hordes?)

You crush an entire nation, destroy them utterly and just because one family member survives, you suudendly have to deal with full stacks coming back again to take back their cities. Stupid.:wall:

[antisocialmunky]

From what I've heard, the pope hordes and migrates in M2TW.

[The Errant]

So do the Mongols and Timurids.

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

Actually adding another british faction would porbably be a good Idea...The reason I picked the Casse for "elimination" was a comment I read before about not being as exciting because you only fight rebels for quite a while at the beggining, but I must confess I have not play with them.


ack, sorry for double posting I meant to edit my post...no idea how this happened..silly me.

Perhaps their charm lie in their isolated starting position, just like the Saka, Sab'yn, Swēbôz, Lusitanna (Haven't played though). After a while consolidating the Isles of Tin the Casse can really smash into the Gallic wars... Perhaps with this pattern of gameplay in mind it would be nice to add another (northern) Gallic faction (Belgae).
Gaul would become a mess and there would be some more opposition against the Legions.

[The Celt]

:inquisitive:
The Casse are among our most popular factions it seems. Plus letting British Isles be totally empty to cram another Greek faction in?

Actually Im fairly sure we'll end up having two British Isles factions.
*Crosses fingers for Erian*:beam:

[Wolfman]

Also because you live in the Tin Isles you get a some pretty decent trade.
P.S. 2 British Factions Sounds good to me.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

Perhaps with this pattern of gameplay in mind it would be nice to add another (northern) Gallic faction (Belgae).
Gaul would become a mess and there would be some more opposition against the Legions.

I guess it depends how it is implemented, because if they fight between themselves it actually might make things easier for the Romani....but I'm confident the EB team will do this the right way...if they decide to add another faction in that area.

[antisocialmunky]

I'm curious, is EB considering stretching the time frame out in EB2 and have a few emergences or, god-forbid, have it go until 500 AD and stick in all the BI factions :-p?

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

I guess it depends how it is implemented, because if they fight between themselves it actually might make things easier for the Romani....but I'm confident the EB team will do this the right way...if they decide to add another faction in that area.

I noticed that in EB one has more opposition from different factions, so nothing at all about divide et impera However haven't played as the Romani so far.

It would be marvelous to see an EB-version of the BI(-timeframe). Europa Barbarorum...gives a new dimension to the name:yes:
However I do imagine that it must be quite boring to playing through the whole Empire and the Pax Romana...Only having minor troubles with the Swēbôz...managing Europe...sounds incredibly boring:beam:

[Dumbass]

1. Erain (Competition for Casse)
2. Basternae (Stop the sweboz, getai and romans rolling into the steppes)
3. Second Arabic tribe to rival saba, or help fight against the sellies.
4. Mauryan Satrapy
5. Those western numidians (The ones enemies with carthage)
6. Belgae
7. Boii (Make Romans go for epirotes and sicily first, plus cisapline faction!)
8. Chatti (or helvetti)
9. Celtiiberians

[Bartix Elite Guard]

I agree with most of that DA but do we know that the Chatti were united at this time. Also I'm fairly sure the celt-iberians weren't. I think the bastarnoz would be a good choice, they had great warriors. However the Lugii are probably more likely for central Europe since they were more influential and fought the Sweboz. Instead of the Boii in general how about the Nervii in particular or were the Boii really a united confederation?

[Anthony]

The Nervii were Belgae, not Boii. The Boii had a large kingdom in central Europe, and there were also Boii migrants who lived in Italy. The central-eastern European Boii would be quite large and powerful; I don't like the idea of a small Cisalpine faction, cause it won't do much to actually hold back the Romans. However, would like to see, if the central European Boii were in, their control of the Cisalpine Boii, or have an alliance script (the latter is probably more realistic), since they did send aide to the Boii against the Romans.

[Enguerrand de Sarnéac]

In my opinion, it'd be better not to make so called competition for the factions at the outskirts of the map... I don't think one could seriously expect competition from one faction for starters, and I think it's one of the nice parts of the game, that you have factions far away from the world's centre that have to struggle a time agains the Eleutheroi first. Better to add factions to the factions in the middle of the map...more Greek cities or leagues, Belgae, perhaps cisalpine Gauls if that'd be historical, Kartli, etc.

I think it's far more interesting (to game of course) to witness conflicts between foreign powers just beyond your borders, and see your erstwhile allies or enemies recoil. It creates a political aspect, one must always have diplomats at hand near the homeland. Otherwise, it's also interesting to play for years against several different tribes (Eleutheroi), have a nice empire in your back when you suddenly bash with full power against the other factions...
If you, for instance, play as the Casse, then there's nothing about it of suddenly meeting the (p.ex) Eraìn... "Hell there they are...!"...nothing really interesting...

[Casuir]

Actually Im fairly sure we'll end up having two British Isles factions.

Any more units planned for the region apart from the midland axemen and naked spearmen already mentioned?

[Boyar Son]

From what I've heard, the pope hordes and migrates in M2TW.

Are you serious? I'm about to attack them if they dont quite bossing me and my Holy Roman Empire around...

And is there a limit to the number of hording? we cant horde averyone can we? if so, might as well put in the factions that migrated!

[Casuir]

Papal states faction behaviour is different to ordinary hording, probably hardcoded.

Btw the region limit is 199 not 198 so you dont have to drop a province.

[Anthony]

A few more units are planned in Britain. I can't remember them all off the top of my head, but there is another Caledonian unit to be done.

[Wolfman]

Finally Another Caledonian unit to ad to britain

[Imperator]

One thing I like about EB is how spread out all the factions are- unlike in other mods where all the new factions tend to be very centered around the Mediterranean and are often judged based on how they performed vs the Romans. In EB the factions are spread all over, from the frozen North-Isles to the Arabian Desert to the vast steppe- so much diversity really gives the game flavor and re-playability. So we should keep this in mind while planning for any new factions.
Therefore, my suggestion is to allocate the new factions in the same way the old ones were allocated. Keep them spread out. If we add Syracuse, Illyria, Numidia, and another Iberian faction, the Western Med. will be overcrowded, with factions dying off in about 10 years (what's the point of having a faction that only has one province, and is surrounded by bigger factions? Syracuse wouldn't stand a chance!) and four diverse, spread-out factions would have been dropped for the sake of adding four factions with 50 year lifespans. Instead of saying precise factions, here are a few places I think are kinda empty right now and could use another faction:
Eastern Germany (more than enough tribes there to choose from)
Africa (I would looove to see Cyrene!)
Britain (one faction with all those provinces? how 'bout some compitition?)
Arabia (see above)
Asia Minor (this spot is potentially explosive- two weak Imperial powers holding onto the south, with a new power rising in the east- all it needs is a moderately powerful faction in the West or North and it'll become a huge battle-ground...sweet :2thumbsup: )
Gaul (even with two tribes, it's still mostly rebel, and that's no fun when we can have yet another tribe thrown in...)
Far East (Ever since the Yeuzhi left, there's no one to hassle the Bakrians or Seleucids eastern fronts.)

And here are some places I would NOT recommend adding a faction:
Sicily (let's face it- a Syracusian faction wouldn't last 10 years with Rome on one side and Carthage on the other. Syracuse was never independent of either one, they were only one one countries' side or another, as an ally. that's what the lvl 4 MIC represents right?)
Greece (Already it's super-dense with factions. Although if someone wanted to change up the factions, and drop the KH for a League of some sort that'd be ok...)
Cisalpine Gaul (they weren't united in the first place, and the strongest tribe is already represented as an ally of the Aedui.)
Spain (I feel the Spanish tribes are better represented by rebels than factions. Only one or two tribes ever had the power to occupy others, most just contented themselves with keeping out invaders-exactly what the rebels do now in Spain.)

sorry for the long post, I just had a lot to get off my chest. But I'll leave it up to the modders and historians to make the final decision. :book: :smash:

[Domitius Ulpianus]

I was going to post my list, but then read Imperator's post and I agree 100%.

:2thumbsup:

[Sarcasm]

@ Imperator:

So let me get this straight, you don't want to overcrowd certain parts of the map, but are willing to take out the only Iberian (say it with me) faction, and leave it to the rebels while at the same time wanting another faction in the isles (which is a much smaller space than the Iberian Peninsula) and *another* faction in Asia Minor where there's a already a constant involvement by the Seleukids, the Ptolemies, Pontus, Makedonia, the Koinon and sometimes the Armenians and Getai?

And what you're saying about peninsula is not true in the slightest, in my campaigns they usually contest the south with the Carthies, take Galaecia and Celtiberia while keeping the Romans and Aedui at bay in the North. I hardly call that doing nothing (not that it was true historically as well).

Better to say it's personal preference.

[Domitius Ulpianus]

"And here are some places I would NOT recommend adding a faction:"


Sarcasm....I think he was talking about ADDING another faction...don't think he meant dropping the Lusotannan.

In any case it has been stated that no faction will be eliminated, right?

I like the idea of leaving Iberia as is, and not dropping the Lusotannan...just to be clear.

[Sarcasm]

As he said "I feel the Spanish tribes are better represented by rebels than factions." I assume he meant all of them. If not, my bad.

The first paragraph still stands though.

[Dumbass]

The boii were a central european power? Wicked, that's even better than what i thought, them taking up a large amount of rebel provinces whilst blocking thr romans from going north.

[Krusader]

The boii were a central european power? Wicked, that's even better than what i thought, them taking up a large amount of rebel provinces whilst blocking thr romans from going north.

Bohemia = "Land of the Boii"

Also seems that the surnames Bawyer & Bowyer have Boii origins.

[Morte66]

* delurks *

I'd like to second the suggestion made earlier for Rhodes as a faction, who'd (initially) be primarily naval and heavily dependent on keeping the sea trade going. They'd make an interesting change from the regular factions. You'd have to keep your trade rights going, keep your sea lanes open, and think about how to expand without starting a war against your trading partners. It would make a certain sense for them to "found" (i.e. capture from rebels) distant colonies. They might even migrate.

They'd doubtless be more straightforward in a short game than a long one, but reading the RTW forums it seems to me that an awful lot of people play a faction for a generation or two then restart, rather than going hundreds of years.

[Fondor_Yards]

Far East (Ever since the Yeuzhi left, there's no one to hassle the Bakrians or Seleucids eastern fronts.)

You mean like the Saka?
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/factions_saka.html

[Bartix Elite Guard]

Some lesser mentioned potential factions

Khwarizm - tough mailed horsemen. South of the Aral sea.

Massilia - an imprtant economic centre

Atropatene - Still nominally under Selucid control like the Bactrians but spoiling to break free and later do. Would be another thorn in the side for the Selucid juggernaught.


Caucasian Iberia - fought local peoples like Colchis (expansionism) fought the Armenians under Tigranes, and then fought the Romans.

[Boyar Son]

how 'bout the picts? for another british faction?

[Caratacos]

A bit too early for the Picts i think (well too early to use that name anyway). Caledonians would be better.

[Anthony]

how 'bout the picts? for another british faction?

Picts didn't exist yet for centuries. Caledonii maybe, but even then, they were a single tribal kingdom amid many others that inhabited Caledonia. The Brigantes (in Britain) and the Erainn (in Ireland) would be the most likely in the islands.

[Nemesis91]

First post of a long-time lurker.

I think, after reading the thread, that at least some of the slots should go like this (Disclaimer, I know that the EB team prefers to refer to factions as they referred to themselves, and I do not know how some of the below referred to themselves):

1-Kyrene
To stop the Carthaginian-Ptolemaic desert wars.

2-An Illyrian tribe, perhaps the Ardiaei?
Organised under Queen Teuta, the Illyrians were only subjugated by Rome after forty years and two wars.

3-A Numidian tribe, Massyli or Massaesyli
To stop complete Carthaginian domination of northwest Africa

4-Attalid Kingdom
Ruled Pergamon and Phrygia until giving it to the Romans. Fought off the Galatians.

5-Taxilan Satrapy/Gondhara
To prevent the "Big Blue Monster of Baktria", and because you can't have India without an Indian faction.

6-Chatii, or another German tribe, to offset the Sweboz and the Eastern Europe Domination.

7-Scythian Neapolis/Crimean Scythians/(Bosporans?).
Would be interesting to see a Balkan Hellenised Steppe faction, no?

8-Emerging Faction Yuezhi
Kicked arse when they came onto the scene. As another poster said, the equivalent of leaving Mongols out of M:TW

9-Another Gallic/Celtic/Barbarian Faction:
Preferably in Eastern Europe, to remove Eleutheroi. Didn't the Makedonians get completely pwned by a Barbarian Invasion slightly before the game started?

10-Either a Celtiberian Faction (Arevaci), a British Faction (Eainn) or the other Numidian tribe, Massyli or Massaesyli. Imagine three-way wars over North-West Africa.
Just to "Mix it up"

[Imperator]

@Sarcasm- I meant keep Lusotonnan in but not add another faction. I think three factions would make Spain a little too crowded. The Lusatani have the Carthaginians to fight, but in Britain the Casse have no faction to fight with. (must get awful lonely all alone up there :tumbleweed: )

@Fonder Yards- Saka are a good start but I always see them bother the Pahlava and Baktrians, but they never migrate far enough south (or if they did, they couldn't do it fast enough) to harass the Seleucids. The Seleucid borders on India and where the Yeuzhi used to be aren't really under attack by anyone (until later in the game) and that doesn't seem right.

By the way, are emerging factions possible in MTW2? If so, shouldn't Bakria be an emerging faction since they didn't rebel until the 250's?

[Krusader]

@Sarcasm- I meant keep Lusotonnan in but not add another faction. I think three factions would make Spain a little too crowded. The Lusatani have the Carthaginians to fight, but in Britain the Casse have no faction to fight with. (must get awful lonely all alone up there :tumbleweed: )

@Fonder Yards- Saka are a good start but I always see them bother the Pahlava and Baktrians, but they never migrate far enough south (or if they did, they couldn't do it fast enough) to harass the Seleucids. The Seleucid borders on India and where the Yeuzhi used to be aren't really under attack by anyone (until later in the game) and that doesn't seem right.

By the way, are emerging factions possible in MTW2? If so, shouldn't Bakria be an emerging faction since they didn't rebel until the 250's?

Not really. Emerging factions are usually used about factions that enter the map from outside the borders. And that is how we will treat them, although I'm fairly sure we will not have emerging factions, but if the Horde system can be tweaked then we will probably give the Horde feature to some factions.

[alatar]

Having Bakria (and Pathria(sp)) declaring independence via a script would be nice, but 20 years after the game start I'd beat that the eastern provinces of the empire could be overran anyway.

One of the advantages of playing EB is that it increases my knowedge, who are the Yuezhi?

[Krusader]

Having Bakria (and Pathria(sp)) declaring independence via a script would be nice, but 20 years after the game start I'd beat that the eastern provinces of the empire could be overran anyway.

One of the advantages of playing EB is that it increases my knowedge, who are the Yuezhi?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuezhi

Normally I'm not vouching for Wikipedia as a very reliable source, however their article on the Yuezhi is surprisingly good.

[alatar]

Having Bakria (and Pathria(sp)) declaring independence via a script would be nice, but 20 years after the game start I'd beat that the eastern provinces of the empire could be overran anyway.

One of the advantages of playing EB is that it increases my knowedge, and so I ask who are the Yuezhi?

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

OK, here is my revised list:

1. Belgae: The most cool units, they seem quite powerful an surely deserve a slot the most.

2. Lugii or Boii: They are just in the right place for stopping the Sweboz.

3. Skythians: They were in the decline, but didn't Makedon also was in the decline? So that's no reason to exclude them. They would be interesting as a slightly hellenized nomad faction.

4. Bosphorion Kingdom: Good place between Skythians and Sarmatians!

5. Erainn (sp): A good counterbalance for the Casse. Isn't it all about the balance of powers?

6. Numidian tribe: To give the Carthies something like a challenge in Africa.

7. The rest would be nice for "really" rebelling factions. I don't know if this would be possible.

After all, I don't think that Kyrene, Pergamon, Syracusae or even Massalia would be a great idea. They are just far too little, and also in already overcrowded areas. The only way I could imagine them would be a "western mediterranean greek confederacy" with cities like Syracusae, Massalia and Emporion. But I guess this would be pretty ahistoric.

[Boyar Son]

Evropa is already overcrowded not Africa or the east!

[Birka Viking]

Evropa is already overcrowded not Africa or the east!

:furious3: :thumbsdown:

[Boyar Son]

:furious3: :thumbsdown:

I dont understand! are you angry at what I posted?:dizzy2:

[Birka Viking]

Just a joke...I dont think Europe is overcrowded:balloon2:

[Boyar Son]

OK!

All Germanic invasions could be represented by hordes rather then factions.

[Al-Masri]

One good thing to report is that a .mesh editor is all but finished now so the 3d models can be changed.

[alatar]

Great news, but how about textures (the only modding I can do passably)?

[The Celt]

Great news, but how about textures (the only modding I can do passably)?
Thats already been cracked. Check out Burrek's Knights and Knaves or WhiteWolf's Byzantine reskin for some good quality texture replacers.:balloon2:

[Wolfman]

I just had an inspiration. Massilia! Who could resist the combination of Hellenic and Celtic culture. And it was an independent colony who allied itself with Rome.

[Fondor_Yards]

Huzza, we now have 3 Massilia supporters!

[Wolfman]

Another Reason I chose Massilia was because I love those Massiloi Hoplitai.
Here's my new revised list
1. Massilia:whip: :yes: :2thumbsup:
2. Pergamon:yes:
3. Syracuse:yes:
4. Cyrenaica:yes:
5. Massyli: Lasted the longest of the 2 Numidian Kingdoms and wasn't destroyed until the Vandal invasion of NA:whip:
6. Massaesyli: Started the reforms for Numidia under Syphax:whip:
7. Bastarnae:
8. Belgae:
9. Chatti: :whip: :yes: :2thumbsup:
10. Galatians: Where kinda of Like a republic
If you can't do one of these factions than this will do then I'd Request the Erain. Please?

[kalkwerk]

Factions that horde have been terribly made in BI (I haven't played MTW2, do they have hordes?)

You crush an entire nation, destroy them utterly and just because one family member survives, you suudendly have to deal with full stacks coming back again to take back their cities. Stupid.:wall:

Keeps the factions in the game though and it makes some challenging situations. On the other side, fighting the germans in 0.81a is like fighting a permanent horde.

[Helgi]

Weren't the Basternae the apparently green-haired, curved sword mercenaries in vanilla rtw?
Yes, indeed.:england: :france: :denmark:

[Quilts]

I can't help but feel that the game would benefit from having some a-historical 'factions' (Syracuse/Massilia) that are unplayable, but would allow the player to interact with them.

Under the current system there is no way to represent factions interactions with certain regions like Rome's alliance with Syracuse etc. There is no benefit for the player to leave Syracuse alone as was historical.

To make 'Syracuse' a viable mini-faction it would need an assortment of territories, like Massilia etc. Having it's territories spread out would most likely prevent it from becoming a regional power.....which is good.

I know that making factions unplayable seems against the 'spirit' of EB but perhaps the players experience can be improved by it's implemetation.

Cheers,

Quilts

[Teleklos Archelaou]

If we put the time and energy into making new factions for EB2, why not go ahead and make them playable too? We're excited at the possibility of making new family trees, faction histories, descriptions of buildings, traits, etc. for all the new factions it could allow us.

[Imperator]

Under the current system there is no way to represent factions interactions with certain regions like Rome's alliance with Syracuse etc.

That's what the Lvl 4 MIC represents, no? Here's a list to explain:

Level 1: Homeland- Field Native Troops, Pay Taxes, Culturally Identical, governed by your faction
Level 2: Province- Field Most Native Troops, Pay Taxes, Culturally Similar, governed by your faction
Level 3: Subjugated Land- Field Most Local Troops, Pay Some Taxes, Culturally Different, governed by puppet rulers or rulers subject to your government
Level 4: Allied State- Field Local Troops, No taxes, Culturally Independant, totally self-governed

Syracuse was basically a Lvl 4 province of Rome, in game terms.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

But they weren't benefiting from solid Roman amicitia in 272. Shortly after our game starts, they did become loyal friends and remained so for half a century, but it's still up in the air a bit in 272.

[Zim]

Huzza, we now have 3 Massilia supporters!

Make it four, love those Massalian Hoplites. It would be neat to see what other troops a faction that mixes Celtic and Greek culture would have, and giving them a few straight Celtic and Greek units(and maybe those Graeco-Celt spearmen) would save a little on the need to make new units.

[Roman_Man#3]

Dont know how much of a power they were, but how about the Galatians?

[Quilts]

That's what the Lvl 4 MIC represents, no? Here's a list to explain:

Level 1: Homeland- Field Native Troops, Pay Taxes, Culturally Identical, governed by your faction
Level 2: Province- Field Most Native Troops, Pay Taxes, Culturally Similar, governed by your faction
Level 3: Subjugated Land- Field Most Local Troops, Pay Some Taxes, Culturally Different, governed by puppet rulers or rulers subject to your government
Level 4: Allied State- Field Local Troops, No taxes, Culturally Independant, totally self-governed

Syracuse was basically a Lvl 4 province of Rome, in game terms.
Thanks for pointing that out. The problem is that you have to conquer them to make them so. Something that didn't happen. Why can't I enter an alliance with them? Because they are the Rebel faction.

Well perhaps what's needed is to 'divy up' the rebel faction to incorporate groups acting with the same interests, and can engage in diplomacy.

I know the modders hands are tied regarding the Rebs, but with the extra faction slots we can work on this a little.

Cheers,

Quilts

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

Make it four, love those Massalian Hoplites. It would be neat to see what other troops a faction that mixes Celtic and Greek culture would have, and giving them a few straight Celtic and Greek units(and maybe those Graeco-Celt spearmen) would save a little on the need to make new units.
I'm all for Massilia, but I must be the only one who thinks those holites kind of suck :\...

[Zim]

I'm all for Massilia, but I must be the only one who thinks those holites kind of suck :\...

:laugh4: Well, I wouldn't say they were great on the battlefield, unless you're a prereform Celt without Aventicos(for the much ebtter Mori Gaesum) in need of some armored infantry. I like them mostly because the idea seems neat, and I like the way they look.

[LordCurlyton]

They are definitely not as good as other hoplites, but then they are cheaper and are IMO one the best lighter infantry out there. In a pinch, setting them on guard mode will allow them to hold basically any part of the line long enough, unless you have completely underestimated the opposition.

[Morte66]

I think I'm going to kick in a vote for Syracuse. Maybe they wouldn't last too well as an AI faction, but they look like a lot of fun to play which I think is what really matters.

And they're certainly not that weak in EB1. You've a city of ~10000 with a high growth rate, stone walls, a port slap in the middle of the Mediterranean trade, and Carthage will come after your 7 star general with their medium spearmen. Compare that to Pontos: a couple of thousand people, a ring of sticks, no port, no generals of note, and psycopathic Seleucids with advanced pike phalanxes who want to crush you.

{edit} Also, Syracuse is a name to conjure with. I'd heard of Hannibal's siege of Syracuse before I knew where Syracuse was, it's sort of famous for being famous. Put Syracuse in the game and people will want to play it.

{edit 2} And it's got interesting options in the hands of a good player. Defeat the Carthaginian field army. Go north, take Messina for taxbase and as a fortress against Italy. Take Lillibeo and you have no land frontier with Carthage, maybe they'll make peace. Or do you want to take Corsica and Sardinia before sending the diplomat, since they're weakly held and can build mines? If Carthage won't make peace, how about a raid to sack the capital (and pay for the mines)? Will you take Reggio, to put another bulwark in your eventual defence against Rome? Or will you leave it alone, to divide you and keep the peace? Perhaps you'd prefer to train up spies and try to make it rebel if Rome or Epiros take it. Eventually you'll take Italy, and then you'll be recruiting your pick of all sorts of units to conquer the world.

[Sdragon]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't TA talk about factions that didn't quite make it in EB? Wasn't Massilia and the Bosporus Kingdom mentioned as almost had beens? I think I recall it being mentioned that each would have started with 2 provinces each and that made them desirable Still my memory isn't that great, perhaps I'm wrong.

Lets not forget that the unit limit is still at 500, the 10 new factions would either have to use a lot of units used by other factions. Have a limited unit set. Or pluck units from already done factions to make the room.

[Fondor_Yards]

Didn't the team say m2tw doubled the amount of skins/unit, because in M2tw they made it that each unit has two different things?

[Dyabedes of Aphrodisias]

Didn't the team say m2tw doubled the amount of skins/unit, because in M2tw they made it that each unit has two different things?
Looking at screenshots and such, I thnk there's actually 3 per unit...

[Moros]

max amount of textures and models has increased a lot. Not sure about the actual number. However the amount of units in the export_descr_unit.txt hasn't, I believe.

[Ludens]

Didn't the team say m2tw doubled the amount of skins/unit, because in M2tw they made it that each unit has two different things?
Yes, but in M2:TW is the number of models that is limiting.

[Krusader]

Yes, but in M2:TW is the number of models that is limiting.

I thought there was unlimited amount of models but 500 unit limit still as in RTW?

[Ludens]

I thought there was unlimited amount of models but 500 unit limit still as in RTW?
:oops: My apologies, I mixed up a couple of things.

[SethEng]

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't TA talk about factions that didn't quite make it in EB? Wasn't Massilia and the Bosporus Kingdom mentioned as almost had beens? I think I recall it being mentioned that each would have started with 2 provinces each and that made them desirable Still my memory isn't that great, perhaps I'm wrong.

Lets not forget that the unit limit is still at 500, the 10 new factions would either have to use a lot of units used by other factions. Have a limited unit set. Or pluck units from already done factions to make the room.

Well, Massilia and Bosporus might be easier factions to do since they'd probably have a handful of unqiue units, but mostly be Hellenistic/Steppe or Hellenistic/Celtic. I could see Massilia have accessing to the common Western Greek units, maybe some mixed culture units, and probably more Gallic units than the other factions could recruit, maybe even the better armored, more professional units. More important is the Goverment 1/2 area. I could see Type 1s for the Greek cities in Gaul and Iberia, with Type 2s over Gaul and maybe Celtiberia. It would definately change the dynamic of Gaul and make for at the very least an interesting "what if" scenario.

[Casuir]

Looking at screenshots and such, I thnk there's actually 3 per unit...

Number of mesh variations is unlimited according to Caliban, you're basically limited to what you can fit on the two textures the model uses. A m2tw size texture uses up 16 times the memory of a rome sized texture though, so go overboard there and you'll have problems.

[hellenes]

Number of mesh variations is unlimited according to Caliban, you're basically limited to what you can fit on the two textures the model uses. A m2tw size texture uses up 16 times the memory of a rome sized texture though, so go overboard there and you'll have problems.

Well that depends on the size of your wallet...
A 8800GTX will run anything that you can throw on it...for €450 of course... :beam:

[Centurion Varricus]

Can I ask why the MTW2 engine appears to be preferred over the RTW:BI engine? What does it offer that BI cant?

[The Errant]

Can I ask why the MTW2 engine appears to be preferred over the RTW:BI engine? What does it offer that BI cant?

Better and more varied graphics (no more "clone" units). Slightly improved AI. Multiple unit recruitment from the same settlement per turn. Permanent forts (could be used to represent lesser cities or towns). The ability to mod unbreakable alliances. Economic warfare using merchants to control resources.

MTW2 is good. It could have been better had CA concentrated more on the improvement of the AI than just the graphics. Even so it is better than RTW-BI. Not as much as it could have, but enough to make it preferable to BI.

However if there was no room for improvement in MTW2 we wouldn't need the EB team to make it better. Thank god it's not perfect. With the team "tinkering" on it. I have no doubt EB2 will be suberb.

To get the full experience I'm afraid most of us with an older computer will seriously have to consider upgrading. And unfortunately there is no working background script to add the $$, ££ or €€ to your bankaccount. :wall:

[hellenes]

Better and more varied graphics (no more "clone" units). Slightly improved AI. Multiple unit recruitment from the same settlement per turn. Permanent forts (could be used to represent lesser cities or towns). The ability to mod unbreakable alliances. Economic warfare using merchants to control resources.

MTW2 is good. It could have been better had CA concentrated more on the improvement of the AI than just the graphics. Even so it is better than RTW-BI. Not as much as it could have, but enough to make it preferable to BI.

However if there was no room for improvement in MTW2 we wouldn't need the EB team to make it better. Thank god it's not perfect. With the team "tinkering" on it. I have no doubt EB2 will be suberb.

To get the full experience I'm afraid most of us with an older computer will seriously have to consider upgrading. And unfortunately there is no working background script to add the $$, ££ or €€ to your bankaccount. :wall:

Lets not forget the most important part:
Both the battle and campaignmap AIs are moddable...
I cant imagine what moster AI will the EB team pull out!!! :dizzy2:

[Wolfman]

I still wish that CA could come up with a Multiplayer campaign. Imagine Historically roleplaying with that. And your enemys would be humans who can adapt to different situations realistically not like the current AI( Though I have to admit M2TW has much better AI then RTW).

[Alexander777]

I think a Massalian faction would be interesting. I'm most interested in an Eastern Germany/Western Steppe faction. Anyone know of any others farther north than Scythia or Bastarnae?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

You guys feel free to talk about it as much as you like. We have decided on some of the factions and will still be deciding on some of the others, but we won't answer any questions about which ones are chosen (so don't try to weasel it out of us :laugh4:) and we won't be giving any hints until you see those first new occultus sig banners coming out. :grin:

[Aramazon]

If you guys are already working on EB2 does that mean you've abandoned EB? I guess it would make sense, EB is really good as it is already.

[Wolfman]

Could you give us the number of how many factions are confirmed and how many slots are empty instead of the names?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

No, the only thing that is being worked on for EB2 is faction discussion and research (mainly for new factions). All tangible 'work' is for the RTW engine, still.

There are ten new faction slots. Five are probably in. Three more are most likely in. And an additional two are sort of in.

[temenid]

Massagetae.

The decoupling of unit recruitment and wealth in MTW2 will allow for more accurate simulation of the nomad factions. And what could be more fun than invading lands and eating old folk?

Mini-mods.

I'd love to fight the Mauryans. Elephants, rain and disease are three radically different factors that'd add significantly to the variety of the campaign. But I can also understand why the Mauryans simply won't fit into the main EB campaign.

[PSYCHO V]

I'm going to be accused of bias here, but the Germans and Hibernians didn’t have significant enough political entities to warrant additional factions on their behalf in this period. Further if such were to be done, it would have to be in a generic sense, which goes against EB’s modes operandi of depicting actual politics, eg. The Aedui confederacy / Arverni Alliance as opposed to an ahistorical generic ‘Gauls’, ‘Northern Gauls’, ‘Southern Gauls’, ‘Gallic Barbarians’, or some other such nomenclature.



Gaul (even with two tribes, it's still mostly rebel, and that's no fun when we can have yet another tribe thrown in...)

True, if further western barbs are to be considered, one could add the Belgae Confederacy under the Suessiones. This would include most of the Belgae and small parts of southern Briton.
The Boii (‘Strikers’) would also be a good choice with extensive land in southern Germany and northern Italy.
Even the Volcae (‘Wolves’) would add an interesting mix with lands in southern France, Asia Minor (Galati) and all over eastern Europe, though they’d not be easy to depict due to their political structure; tetrachal power sharing in triumvirates (three tribes).
The Celiberian ‘Arevaci Coalition’ would be a good addition in opposition to the Lusitani in Iberia / Spain, though some claim the name too similar to the Arverni.

The Gallic Brigantes would be good in mid-northern Briton.

Numidians would also be welcomed in Africa.


Cisalpine Gaul (they weren't united in the first place, and the strongest tribe is already represented as an ally of the Aedui.)
:

Yup, adding the Boii would certainly liven things up.


Just my2bob

[I Am Herenow]

You guys feel free to talk about it as much as you like. We have decided on some of the factions and will still be deciding on some of the others, but we won't answer any questions about which ones are chosen (so don't try to weasel it out of us :laugh4:) and we won't be giving any hints until you see those first new occultus sig banners coming out. :grin:

I've already seen one (was wondering what that was) :beam: so it's OK for you to tell us now ;)



Anyway, guys, you were saying that M2 has 1 less max. provinces and same amount for max. diff. units as RTW, but are there any signs that Kingdoms might improve on either statistic?

PS

I think you should make Kingdoms a requirement for EB2, so that you can take advantage of all available features of M2. I mean, let's face it, just about everyone who has RTW has BI, right?

------------------------------------------------------

Also, just out of curiosity, if you wanted to recreate the world in, say, 272 BC totally accurately historically (so including India, Japan, all of Africa [I assume] etc.), with all the provinces that existed and all factions with all units (that you know of, obviously) and alliances on a Total: War skeleton, how many (more) provinces, units and factions would you need?

In other words, what faction etc. caps would be sufficient to fully recreate the world in 272 BC?

[Caratacos]

Also, just out of curiosity, if you wanted to recreate the world in, say, 272 BC totally accurately historically (so including India, Japan, all of Africa [I assume] etc.), with all the provinces that existed and all factions with all units (that you know of, obviously) and alliances on a Total: War skeleton, how many (more) provinces, units and factions would you need?

In other words, what faction etc. caps would be sufficient to fully recreate the world in 272 BC?

Dude are you serious? Do you know how much work would go into answering that question accurately?

A LOT :book:.

How about we say 2-3 times that currently in EB. Give or take. Off the top of my head. Approximately. Without doing any research. A guesstimate. I'd assume. Sort of. Maybe.

[Sir Edward]

PS

I think you should make Kingdoms a requirement for EB2, so that you can take advantage of all available features of M2. I mean, let's face it, just about everyone who has RTW has BI, right?



Well I can't speak for everyone, but I never saw the reason to get BI; magical monks, swimming armies, and fire lit battles weren't enticing enough for me to fork over my dollars. These just seemed like eye candy from CA and no real substance or addition to strategy of the game. Though if half of the stuff will work that CA is saying in press releases, I think that EB2 should be built for Kingdoms.

[I Am Herenow]

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I never saw the reason to get BI; magical monks, swimming armies, and fire lit battles weren't enticing enough for me to fork over my dollars. These just seemed like eye candy from CA and no real substance or addition to strategy of the game.

*shrug* I like it - Beserkers are hilarious lol

Also, Hordes and Horde armies was a nice touch

[Foot]

Dude are you serious? Do you know how much work would go into answering that question accurately?

A LOT :book:.

How about we say 2-3 times that currently in EB. Give or take. Off the top of my head. Approximately. Without doing any research. A guesstimate. I'd assume. Sort of. Maybe.

I would go for 100x what we currently have avaliable in EB, and that is a truly bad guestimate. Basically more than any current computer could run.

Foot

[Tellos Athenaios]

Think of the script... :evilgrin:

What, you didn't even wait till the day was out and you already start complaining?!! Why, it's not unusual for our dev computers to require a full week (!) before everything is loaded up and running... Patience my dear, patience... a good deal of it.

[Wolfman]

I have a question. Will the Aquitani possibly be represented in the near future

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Well we wouldn't tell you if it was, but we might tell you if it wasn't. So it's probably better for us not to say anything. :2thumbsup: We're not giving away what the new factions will be yet guys! C'mon! :laugh4: Aitolia you guys that nabataea'll know what the factions are In di' end. (that's fun, anyone want to try more of those! :laugh4:)

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Well we wouldn't tell you if it was, but we might tell you if it wasn't. So it's probably better for us not to say anything. :2thumbsup: We're not giving away what the new factions will be yet guys! C'mon! :laugh4: Aitolia you guys that nabataea'll know what the factions are In di' end. (that's fun, anyone want to try more of those! :laugh4:)
So Aitolia, Nabataea and India will be in? Or will certainly not be in?

[Teleklos Archelaou]

So Aitolia, Nabataea and India will be in? Or will certainly not be in?I certainly never said that. While you may find A Key In interpreting my comments by looking at certain words carefully, that still is no definite answer. We have picked a few already and some more are less conkrete in our minds, but it's hillyriaous to think we'd tell everyone what they are now.

[Redmeth]

Illyria too I see... and Krete?
There may be some misleading going on here...

[Laundreu]

And the Bosporan Kingdom. Celts, Samartians, Hellenes...what's not to love?

Edit: In fact, I think it would be more fun for we non-initiates to make cases for a faction to be included, rather than try to guess whether it will be already. Certainly it'd be a change of pace for the EB staff!

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

I certainly never said that. While you may find A Key In interpreting my comments by looking at certain words carefully, that still is no definite answer. We have picked a few already and some more are less conkrete in our minds, but it's hillyriaous to think we'd tell everyone what they are now.
Yes, Sir. I would never think the EB team could be foolish enough to reveal anything about such top secret issues. No way, Sir. :laugh4:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Seriously though, what I squeezed in above has absolutely no correlation to what is going to be in EB2. Just some harmless fun. I'll try not do to it any meroe.

[I Am Herenow]

Ooh, the suspense is killing me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meroe

[Roman_Man#3]

That is very sly of you TA. I saw Achean.

Keep up the good work you guys, cannot wait until EB2.
RM3

[Beefy187]

dont know if you already said this but..
India would be really cool to play as:yes:

[paullus]

In fact, I think it would be more fun for we non-initiates to make cases for a faction to be included, rather than try to guess whether it will be already. Certainly it'd be a change of pace for the EB staff!

That would be a change of pace! I'd encourage any of y'all to do that sort of thing, it'll keep TA from puning faction names (I hope) and perhaps educate other forum readers and help us decide which factions to look into!

[I Am Herenow]

Could we have Eleutheroi and Rebels separate in EB2, so people (like me :D) don't confuse the two?

i.e. Eleutheroi control settlements not owned by any other faction and represent minor kingdoms, tribes etc. and can have their own, normal (but perhaps small) navies. Rebels will take a city when it revolts, be non-aggressive (unlike Eleutheroi), and spawn marauding armies/pirate fleets. Eleutheroi can attack Rebels, everyone is at war with both all the time, and neither faction is listed in the Diplomacy thing.

Sound good?

[Foot]

Could we have Eleutheroi and Rebels separate in EB2, so people (like me :D) don't confuse the two?

i.e. Eleutheroi control settlements not owned by any other faction and represent minor kingdoms, tribes etc. and can have their own, normal (but perhaps small) navies. Rebels will take a city when it revolts, be non-aggressive (unlike Eleutheroi), and spawn marauding armies/pirate fleets. Eleutheroi can attack Rebels, everyone is at war with both all the time, and neither faction is listed in the Diplomacy thing.

Sound good?

That is impossible. The slave faction in RTW is unique, and we wouldn't be able to make to versions of it. There is no possibility of doing as you propose. Even if we were, it is highly unlikely we would. It would mean sacrificing a faction slot, which we would rather spend on a proper faction. I don't find it confusing it all, as regards the eleutheroi. A rebellion in EB is not led by a load of rebels, but by the independent elements within a province who wish to throw of foreign rule and rule themselves. They are as much eleutheroi as starting eleutheroi cities.

Foot

[geala]

I have a very modest wish:

A faction in nowadays Ireland, I like that area.

And please let them go barefoot!!

[Geoffrey S]

I'd be quite surprised if the Goidilic tribes weren't to make it in, so you may get your wish.

[neoiq5719]

Is there a link where i can read what this EB2 will be about?
thx

[pansoiatr]

1.Aitolean league (although would propably be the same as the koinon)
2.Syracuse
3.Massalia (nice exotic choise of greek-celtic units)
4.Spanish faction
5.Numidians
6.Indian faction

[edyzmedieval]

Massylia is in the north of Africa, they will barely have Hellenes or Keltoi units, except as mercs.

Some of the new factions are really interesting. I really like the ....... because it makes it really hard for the surrounding factions. Enemies will pour from everywhere, and it will make it a very compelling experience, and strategy/tactics will surely help.

Trust me, EB2 will be really good. :yes:

[Ludens]

Is there a link where i can read what this EB2 will be about?
thx
EB 2 will be EB 1 for M2:TW. That's pretty much all we know about it currently.

[keravnos]

Seriously though, what I squeezed in above has absolutely no correlation to what is going to be in EB2. Just some harmless fun. I'll try not do to it any meroe.

Teleklos. BASTA. Aren't you ashamed? I qin understand what you say, but people might not. Besides, this is Europa Barbarorum, not India one. At this rate of mentioning factions, we just might have aria t in our hands.

[neoiq5719]

EB 2 will be EB 1 for M2:TW. That's pretty much all we know about it currently.
so if it will be the same , why doing it all over again? the engine is different, the map or what? why go thru this to have the same? EB is just about perfect.

[Juvenal]

I think there may be a case for giving the Eleutheroi a proper faction slot.

In RTW the AI seems to prioritize Slave faction territories as targets. This leads for instance to the Romani neglecting the Epirotes and going off conquering to the Baltic coast.

If this is still the case in M2TW, then giving the Eleutheroi a faction slot should knock this behavior on the head. It might also make the Eleutheroi more active and interesting.

Another solution might be to add the middle european Boii as a faction.

[Foot]

I think there may be a case for giving the Eleutheroi a proper faction slot.

In RTW the AI seems to prioritize Slave faction territories as targets. This leads for instance to the Romani neglecting the Epirotes and going off conquering to the Baltic coast.

If this is still the case in M2TW, then giving the Eleutheroi a faction slot should knock this behavior on the head. It might also make the Eleutheroi more active and interesting.

That wouldn't work as the slave faction slot is remarkably different from any other faction slot. It is outside of the diplomacy section for example. The reason that factions go for the Eleutheroi is because of the diplomacy section in descr_strat, you can change it if you want.

Foot

[LorDBulA]

so if it will be the same , why doing it all over again? the engine is different, the map or what? why go thru this to have the same? EB is just about perfect.

Well because M2TW engine is much superior to RTW. It will let us do things that RTW didnt allow us to do.
If everything goes well EB2 has a chance to be many times better then EB1.
EB1 almost completely exsoustet RTW potential. We pushed RTW as far as it was possible ( and I can bet more then CA thought it was possible ) , but its just not enough.
We think that M2TW will let us represent EB timeframe much more real then RTW. And this is what EB is about.

[Krusader]

so if it will be the same , why doing it all over again? the engine is different, the map or what? why go thru this to have the same? EB is just about perfect.

Because most people prefer the antiquity in the EB team.
Plus considering the massive amount of work we use...well, don't think anyone would want to begin researching again for new stuff. We already have begun to research the new factions and that will take time.

[SaFe]

I agree totally here, the strenght of the team lies definately in the EB-timeframe.
There are more than enough other teams that paln to do a mod for medieval times.

@Krusader:
B.t.w. great work on the EB-homepage.

[I Am Herenow]

Well because M2TW engine is much superior to RTW. It will let us do things that RTW didnt allow us to do.
If everything goes well EB2 has a chance to be many times better then EB1.
EB1 almost completely exsoustet RTW potential. We pushed RTW as far as it was possible ( and I can bet more then CA thought it was possible ) , but its just not enough.
We think that M2TW will let us represent EB timeframe much more real then RTW. And this is what EB is about.

Yeah, except apparently the max region limit is 1 less than for RTW, meaning a city will have to be scrapped (unless Kingdoms rectifies this, I suppose).

[Krusader]

I agree totally here, the strenght of the team lies definately in the EB-timeframe.
There are more than enough other teams that paln to do a mod for medieval times.

@Krusader:
B.t.w. great work on the EB-homepage.

Thanks ~:)

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Massylia is in the north of Africa, they will barely have Hellenes or Keltoi units, except as mercs.
He talked of Massalia or Massilia, which is today known as Marseille. And Marseille is situated in southern France, although some people might say it's a mauretanian town nowadays... ~;) :laugh4:

[-Praetor-]

Well because M2TW engine is much superior to RTW. It will let us do things that RTW didnt allow us to do.
If everything goes well EB2 has a chance to be many times better then EB1.
EB1 almost completely exsoustet RTW potential. We pushed RTW as far as it was possible ( and I can bet more then CA thought it was possible ) , but its just not enough.
We think that M2TW will let us represent EB timeframe much more real then RTW. And this is what EB is about.

... even though it will take a helluva lot of modding, considering that you not only have to mod the units, but now the structures... and that`s some heck of a lot of work... something that you needn`t do with this version of EB.

Unless you just would mod the skins out of them, somehow repainting the M2TW structures to roman-era buildings...

Could be done...

[Pawl ap Hywel]

I would love to see some of the following factions make EB2:

1)Errain/Goidils (Why: they could contest with the Casse for the supremicy of the Brittish Isles)
2)Qin (or Han) Chinese Dynasty (hopefully the East will be included) (Why: because this period in particular is when massive trade came out of China and they began expanding westward into the Tarim Basin and chasing out/killing the Yeuzhi/Tocharians)
3)Mauryan Indian Dynasty (Why: They had strong ties with the Selucids, including an alliance and promotion of intermarriage)
4)Yeuzhi/Tocharians (Why: Were and Indo-European people (with a culture and language very simmilar to the Celts) that inhabited the first regions that the Silk Road came into out of China, and were chased out of their region into Bactrea by the Chinese)
5)Numidia (Why: Resons previously said by others)
6)Chatti (Why: To contest with the Germani)
7) Illyrians (Why: To contest with the Eporiate and Getai)
8)Roxolani (or another Steppe tribe) (Why: To contest with Sarmatians)
9)Cetlibeians (Why: To give the Iberian peninsula another faction that the Lusotanan and Punics can contend against/be contended by)
10)Pergamum (or Crete) (Why: To have another new Hellenistic Faction that would be more powerful than all other candidates after the death of Alexander)

[SaFe]

I would love to see some of the following factions make EB2:

6)Chatti (Why: To contest with the Germani)



The Chatti are germanic people too and would differ only slightly from the Suebians(Sweboz)
Better choice would be the germanic Gutanoz or Gotanoz (early gothic tribe in Scandia)

[-Praetor-]

The Chatti are germanic people too and would differ only slightly from the Suebians(Sweboz)
Better choice would be the germanic Gutanoz or Gotanoz (early gothic tribe in Scandia)

Why? To fill the void of the baltic area?

In that case, better the Lugii, they would be on a good position to expand virtually on every direction, not to mention the differences in culture.

[SaFe]

Why? To fill the void of the baltic area?

In that case, better the Lugii, they would be on a good position to expand virtually on every direction.


Not only of gameplay reasons, but because of their religion differed from their southern germanic bethren and they would also give the area a nice change up there.

Concerning the Lugii:
What were they really?
Celts?
Germanics?
A mix?

Well at least 100 BC we could name them germanics for sure, but before?
EB will start around 270 BC again, so for the Lugii we have to decide which group they belong to, as it it very unrealistic to change them midway ingame.

And there are enough celtic factions for sure belonging in EB2
Aedui, Averni, Celt-Iberians, Galatians, Casse, Goidilics, etc...