PDA

View Full Version : KotR The Kingdom of Outremer



Pages : [1] 2 3

econ21
03-22-2007, 15:23
The Kingdom of Outremer

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/jerusale.jpg

Purposes of the Kingdom:
1. First and foremost, we are in place to guard Papal Jerusalem and the rest of Christianity from attacks by Muslims, Mongols, or similar-minded invaders who would seek to do Christianity harm.
2. We are to provide a safe haven for pilgrims who come to worship.
3. We are to protect the interests of the Holy Roman Empire and provide the Reich with goods to trade from the East.

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward).

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.1, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The Dukes and the Emperor will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count which are allocated to their control.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain +1 influence, but only if they are not already a Count in their Duchy, and only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 6 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

Charter Amendment 11.3: The King of Outremer is allowed to propose three Edicts (or Charter Amendments) per Diet Session. Prior to being tabled in the Diet, these must be seconded by two Crusader Counts in the Council of Crusaders.

Charter Amendment 11.6: The position of King of Outremer is appointed by the emperor. The King of Outremer is permitted to resign, if the emperor is willing to accept the resignation, upon which a new King is appointed by the emperor. If the King of Outremer is deemed incapable of the assignment, he may be impeached by the emperor and 2 Dukes.


King Jan adds: There are two Armies of Outremer. Where possible, army commands will rotate so as to make sure everyone has a turn at leading an army. The King still reserves the right to appoint/deny army commands as he sees fit and a crusader still reserves the right to ask for garrison duty.

King Jan adds: For now, the Prince has decided that his army will be stationed in Outremer. It is not a third AoO. The Prince is a guest and will be treated as such. He will be informed of the strategic situation and then he will decide how he wishes to help. The King will not interfere with this in any way and all Chancellors are urged to respect this while the Prince's army is in Outremer.



Current assignments:
Antioch - King Jan (Privateerkev)
Damascus - Karl Zirn (Northnovas)
Adana - Matthias Steffen (OverKnight)
Acre - Elberhard (econ21)
Aleppo - Dieter Bresch (Bob_the_Great)
Edessa - unassigned

Kings of Outremer:
Kaiser Henry (econ21) - 1200-1210 (informal)
Otto von Kassel (OverKnight) - 1210-1232 (1210-1220 informal)
Conrad Salier (GeneralHankerchief) - 1232-1276
Prince Elberhard (econ21) - 1276-1280 (steward)
Jan von Hamburg (Privateerkev) - 1280-???

Kagemusha
03-22-2007, 15:30
Original first post by econ21:

Prinz Henry: At the risk of prejudging the final outcome of the First Emergency Diet polls, I believe now may be an opportune moment to begin planning our great Crusade to Jerusalem.

I propose all generals involved in the Crusade should gather together in this Council to plan and make decisions regarding the crusade.

The laws under which we must act are:

Edict E1.1: In an effort to make penance for whatever sins we have incurred upon our souls during the violent overthrow and death of Pope Greogry, the Reich will launch a Crusade to capture the Holy City of Jerusalem. After the city is captured, it will be given as a gift to the sitting Pope, to allow him to permanently reign over Christendom from the land of Christ. The Crusade will be governed as follows:
1: Every general who wishes to join the Crusade may do so.
2: For the duration of the Crusade, all limits on army composition will not apply to any Crusade armies.
3: The Crusade is authorized to declare war on any non-Catholic faction it encounters, if it deems such a declaration of war to be necessary.
4: All strategic decisions regarding the Crusade, such as choice of settlements to attack and commanders of the Crusading armies, will be made by the generals who participate in the Crusade. All decisions will be made by majority vote, without regard for earthly influence. We are all equal in the eyes of God on this Holy Mission.
5: All Edicts relating to the Crusade will remain in effect until the Papacy governs Jerusalem or until every last Crusader lies dead, whichever comes first.

and:

Edict E1.7:Should edict E1.1 pass for the duration of the Crusade, the Reich will refrain from conquering any Catholic settlement and instead focus on defending the borders from outside attack and developing our provinces. This Edict does not apply to Thorn, Venice, Marseille and Breslau, nor does it apply to any settlement of the Reich which is captured by our enemies. Additionally, should the HRE be attacked by any nations it is not at war with at the time of the attack, one (1) settlement may be annexed from that nation of the Chancellor's choice.

At the moment the Council of Crusaders comprises:

Maximillan Mandorf (TinCow)
Prinz Henry (econ21)
Dietrich von Saxony (Kagemusha)
Otto Kassel (Overknight)
Jonas von Mahren (Jalf)

Any other generals wishing to join the crusade should declare their intent here.

Dietrich Von Saxony

"If this crusade is to come. I think those of us who hold the title of Duke should name the next Dukes for their Duchy before leaving and setting him as the Steward, for the time of the Crusade and incase we dont come back, that person should be named as the Duke. Also i dont think we should try to send any notes about how the reich should be ruled to Diet,while we are in our Holy mission. Those left behind should handle the affairs and we should focus on our task to fight our way to the Holy land."

TinCow
03-22-2007, 15:41
Duke von Saxony, I know you are not entirely pleased with the nature of this Crusade, yet you have still volunteered to leave your lands and join us. That is an immense sacrifice and it demonstrates more nobility and faith in God than any man I know. I am very pleased to have a man of your quality on what is sure to be a long and difficult journey. I look forward to drawing my sword with you in service to the Lord.

*Mandorf makes a long and respectful bow towards the Duke.*

econ21
03-22-2007, 15:45
There are several issues we can profitably discuss at this moment.

First, the composition of the crusade. We should bear in mind the normal composition of our armies:

8. Historical armies

The following rules apply for field armies of 15+ or more units.

Generals - max 2 units
Knights - cavalry or foot, max 8 units inc. generals
[The class of knights is therefore: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights included those great dismounted knights you get in the Holy Land.)

Total cavalry - maximum 8 units, inc mounted knights and generals
[Non-knightly cavalry includes: Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants]

Artillery - maximum 2 units (5 in a siege - if caught in a field battle immediately withdraw excess of over two)
Foot missiles - maximum 6 units including artillery
[Foot missiles include: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners ]

Total elite heavy infantry - max 6
[Elite infantry comprises Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass?]

Other spears & feudal foot - unlimited
[This includes: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia]

I propose we adhere to the above as much as possible, with the exception of our relative abundance of generals. The Chancellor will manage this, but I suggest we aim for a full army of 20 regiments comprising the best troops available to us. The crusade should have first call on the advanced troops recenlly available from Staufen and the Teutonic Order: those left behind can train such men when we are gone, but once we leave the Reich, we will be unable to do so:

Cavalry - 7
3 generals
2 Teutonic knights - these are the finest warriors available to us and would naturally be drawn to such a pious endeavour
1 Mailed knights - these are faster than the Teutons, but still formiddable in combat
1 Mounted sergeant

Missiles - 6
2 Pavisse crossbowmen - these are the best we can get, but we their number is limited
2 Other crossbows
2 Peasant archers - their flaming arrows may be useful
No artillery - they will slow us down too much.

Infantry - 7
2 Dismounted feudal knights - their number is limited by what Staufen can produce
5 Armoured sergeants

I recognise that logistics may prevent the above being feasible (and that there may be trade-off between quality and time of departure). We might also give thought to recruiting mercenaries further on in our campaign. However, I fear our excommunication and the prospect of our crusade will swell the coffers of our enemies, so relying on later recruitment of mercenaries may be unwise.

A second issue is the route of the crusade. I propose that we travel by land, via Zagreb and Byzantium but gather a Mediterranean fleet capable of reinforcing or extracting us if we get into serious trouble.

A third issue is the stance of crusade towards neutrals. I propose that we refrain from attacking third parties, except any rebels we encounter. For example, securing a rebel island near the Middle East might provide a useful staging point and supply base for our future Crusader kingdom.

A fourth issue is leadership of the crusade. I propose that Mandorf, as Chancellor, should have responsibility for day to day operations. We should give thought to one of us running for Chancellor at the next Diet, so as to facillitate our activities. Perhaps Duke Dietrich or a second term for Count Mandorf? In terms of any battles, I believe as Prince, I am the natural leader but propose we should alternate command - perhaps starting with me and then moving to other generals by their command rank.

A final issue is what to do when we arrive in the Holy Land. I propose that we aim for Jerusalem first and gift it to the Pope. However, after that we should aim to establish our own crusader kingdom so that we can protect Jerusalem. I suggest we aim to take at least four other provinces, one for each House in the Reich.

TinCow
03-22-2007, 15:55
I agree with the recruitment policies outlined by Prinz Henry, but I admit I am unsure of the specifics. I will take a close look what forces can be assembled by the end of my term and report back when I have more information.

I also agree with Prinz Henry's proposed route. While going by sea could be faster, it is widely known that Venice controls Ragusa, Durazzo, Iraklion, and Rhodes. We would be constantly subjected to attacks by their fleets during our voyage and would run a great risk of total catastrophe. While the land route will be slower, I believe it will be safer.

I will order our diplomat in Byzantine territory to attempt to negotiate military access with the Orthodox Emperor. I doubt he will be successful, but it is worth asking. If one cannot be achieved, we might want to consider supporting an Edict in 1160 to donate a small amount of regular tribute to Byzantium, so that they do not become too outraged by the progress of our army.

Kagemusha
03-22-2007, 16:24
Dietrich Von Saxony

I thank you Maximillien Mandorf from your kind words. I cant think better way for an old knight to go meet my creator,then taking this Holy task and maybe find salvation in the eyes of the Lord from it.
I agree with Prinz Henry on army composition and route. But i dont understand how it would be benefitial for a Crusader to be a Chancellor of Reich. Im sure that Mandorf can set things in motion during his last period of Chancellorship. And the next Chancellor will take things from there. But when we take that Holy cross and place it in our tunics to cover our hearts, we place our selves in the hands of the Lord and he will decide our faith.
I dont see how us, who are on our way to the Holy Land could govern Reich as a Chancellor. We will be first hundreds and later thousends of kilometers from Reich and communication back to Reich will be very slow and might at some point cut off completely,when we enter the enemy territory.
In those circumstances we should trust on those,who are actually in the Reich to handle the affairs of the Reich. We will not be aware of the latest affairs back home and thus should not interfere on them. Im sure that You Prinz Henry will come back one day to the Reich and will take over our mighty Empire,but during this crusade we should focus on it and nothing else.

OverKnight
03-22-2007, 21:53
Otto enters the chamber. He bows to the Prinz, gives a curt nod to Dietrich and claps Maximillian on the shoulder.

My lords, if you will have me, I will join the Crusade. It must not fail.

econ21
03-22-2007, 22:10
Prinz Henry: Welcome, Duke Otto! Now there are four - that is a more of a proper Council!

Pray tell me, Duke, have you come to remind us that we have forgotten to mention the most important forces to bring on our crusade? Yes? Why priests, of course! How could I have forgotten to mention them when discussing the composition of our crusade! We must bring many - they may scout ahead of our forces but more importantly, they must spread the word among the population of the Holy Land. Islam has usurped the true faith among the locals and while the hearts of the people are against us, all the soldiers in the Empire will not win us a true peace.

I dare say the experience of converting the heathen will do wonders for our clergy as well. The renown they gain may well help us to restore our influence among the College of Cardinals.

Oh and on the subject of settlements on our way - if Rhodes happens to be held by rebels, we might consider a landing to secure a base there. In the longer run we must establish sea communications between North Italy and the Levant. Rhodes would be a good halfway point, where our ships could resupply and refit.

TinCow
03-22-2007, 22:23
Prinz Henry, I regret to inform you that merchant ships coming into our Italian ports have reported that Venice has been in firm control of Rhodes for several years. The Venitians dominate the trade lanes from Venice all the way to Asia. It will take a great deal of time and money to wrest the seas from them.

From my own study of the maps, I believe that Adana should be our first objective. By the time we reach that place, we will be far from the Reich and totally isolated. It would be good to have a defensive location to retreat to in the event of a disaster.

OverKnight
03-22-2007, 22:32
Thank you mein Prinz,

Yes we will need priests, and a few spies, at least one diplomat and a few assassins, at least for protection.

It is very important that even if we go by land, that we have a strong fleet shadow the Army. This will allow for reinforcements and messages to be shuttled back and forth. I happily volunteer Bologna to help build the fleet. That way ships can follow us as we proceed down the Adriatic. We should address the issue of fleet development in the next Diet.

The idea of Rhodes is a good one. If I didn't want to sully this Crusade with temporal thoughts, I would suggest we take Crete from the Venetians, but that would clearly be against the spirit of our endeavor.

I am new here, so I will study the situation and see if I can provide further insight.

econ21
03-22-2007, 22:40
Chancellor - it is a shame about Rhodes; I suppose Adana would suffice provided it is rebel when we arrive. I would not wish to start a war with the Turks before we have even set eyes on Jerusalem.

Duke Otto - what are your thoughts on a crusader running for Chancellor? Perhaps even a Bavarian crusader...?

OverKnight
03-22-2007, 22:47
If one of the Crusaders runs for Chancellor, it might open them up to the criticism, as mentioned by Duke von Saxony, that someone who is absent should not be running the Reich.

This is balanced by the fact, however, that the Crusaders must have a Chancellor in office who will give full support to the Crusade. Your brother might run, Prinz, and I'm not sure of his intentions towards this version of the Crusade.

It is a dilemma.

TinCow
03-23-2007, 00:07
Council, I have completed an initial survey of our forces. The limitations on our recruitment for the Crusade will be those forces which must travel from a long distance. This include soldiers from Staufen and Magdeburg and the Teutons from Frankfurt. Accordingly, we will only be able to take regiments which can be recruited from those territories in the next year or two. Any which assemble beyond that time period will result in a great delay to our departure. As it is, I doubt whether we will be able to leave the borders of the Reich until after the next Chancellorship election.

That said, I believe we will be able to assemble an army of the following:
Ourselves and our 4 regiments of bodyguards (assuming no other Electors join the Crusade)
3 regiments of Teutonic Knights, including Captain Welf's men who have been with me for some time and have lost 1/6 of their strength
3 regiments of Armored Spearmen
2.5 regiments of Dismounted Feudal Knights
2 regiments of Pavise Crossbowmen

We can easily recruit a large number of Sergeant Spearmen and Peasant Crossbowmen to complete the army. It is possible that 2 more regiments of Armored Spearmen may become available in time for departure, but that depends on factors that I cannot yet predict.

Clearly the strength of our army should be concentrated around our Dismounted Knights and Pavise Crossbowmen. They are excellent soldiers and have proved that Prinz Henry was correct in insisting on the construction of a fortress at Staufen. We would be wise to conserve them, as we are unlikely to be able to replace them at any point in our Crusade.

Regarding command of the army, Duke von Kassel and Duke von Saxony are more experienced than either Prinz Henry or myself. In addition, both are well known for their ability to motivate their armies towards faster movement. I believe it would be prudent to place them in charge of the Crusade, at least in the beginning. Perhaps if we recruited an excess of Sergeant Spearmen and Peasant Crossbowmen one of the two Dukes could lead a small contingent of perhaps 7 regiments ahead of the main body as a vanguard. The remaining 15 or 16 regiments could follow behind as the main force.

OverKnight
03-23-2007, 00:42
Good work Maximilian.

Even bringing along spear militia would be a good idea. If we do take any cities, they are a ready made garrison that won't cost much if anything to maintain, and their numbers can be replenished from local populations. We can also use them as shock troops to shield our more elite units from losses.

I would be humbled to command the Army, I do know how to motivate men to great speed. Still if the Prinz is owed pride of place (OOC: He always commands the stack he's in, true?), this might interfere.

What will be our attitude toward mercenaries? Do we hire by dire need, or if we see an interesting unit in an exotic land may we hire them freely?

econ21
03-23-2007, 01:15
When it comes to the hiring of mercenaries, we will probably be beholden to whoever is the Chancellor at the time. That is one reason why I am supportive of a Crusader standing for election. It is true the Holy Land should provide many interesting and valuable warriors who can be bought for the right price. Turcomans who practice archery while mounted may be particularly useful, while we may even be able to hire dismounted crusader knights to supplement our own meagre complement of swordsmen. We will surely have need of replacements if we are to storm Jerusalem and four other provinces.

I would also like to draw the attention of the Council to an idea that my son Hans (OOC: Factionheir) has raised with me. He scrutinised Edict E1.7 and noted that the prescription against taking settlements applied only to those loyal to Catholic rulers. If our spies were to encourage Rhodes or another Venetian settlement to rebel against their masters, we would legally be authorised to claim it for the Reich. Quite where my son gets his cunning from, I am not sure. I suspect it must be his Grandfather rather than me.

Stuperman
03-23-2007, 02:09
I believe you are right Prinz Henry, the wording of E1.7 was designed to shield against further angering the pope (with a few exceptions). Should Crete or Rhodes fall to rebels, the crusading force is within thier right to take them. Righ port cities like those would help greatly in paying for this endevour.

TinCow
03-23-2007, 02:37
Taking Rhodes will require a large fleet of Imperial ships, otherwise transporting a sufficient army to the island will take many years and cause a severe delay to the Crusade. With our Adriatic fleet sunk, we will have to build a completely new fleet in order to accomplish this. The Venitian war galleys are more than a match for our own ships in combat and they already have a significant fleet in Venice. Even after Duke Leopold takes the city, that fleet will remain and it will surely be reinforced by the Venetian ports at Ragusa, Durazzo, Iraklion, and Rhodes. It will require a significant investment of Imperial funds to build a fleet capable of defeting the Venetians, sailing to Rhodes, and transporting the Crusade to the island without danger. This does not even take into account the difficulty we would have in enciting Rhodes to revolt in the first place. I would not be opposed to such a plan, but I doubt whether it will be feasible without a Chancellor who is wholely dedicated to its success.

Regarding mercenaries, we must remember that the Reich Treasury is not bottomless. During my Chancellorship, I have often had great difficulties in meeting the financial needs of all of the Houses. The Crusade will add another significant financial burden. While mercenaries do not cost much more than normal regiments for annual upkeep, their initial hiring cost can be excessively high. If I were the next Chancellor, I would be most displeased to receive constant requests for mercenary recruitment from an army in a far away land which drained monies from our coffers without contributing anything of worth. I think we should attempt to do without mercenaries for as long as we are able. If the decision is made that we simply must recruit them, it might be wise to consider sacking a nearby Muslim city in order to pay for the cost. We can always abandon the city to rebels when we leave.

Kagemusha
03-23-2007, 05:06
Dietrich Von saxony

I will be atleast 55 years old when we will depart.So i ask.Give the leadership first to me and i will help you as long as i can. When i cant hold my lance anymore,may someone else take my place.And you should leave me to my faith.I ask this as an last favour for an old knight of the Reich.
Otto is atleast as experienced as i am and im happy to see him join this holy mission, but let me put us on our way and then others continue,becouse i think that i will not be with you to the end of our mission.

econ21
03-23-2007, 10:43
Dietrich, I have given some thought to the question of the "leadership" of this Council. Given it's "democratic" mandate, it is not obvious what this means. However, I can see at least three different roles:

Battlefield Commander: only one man can command any given battle.

Imperial liason: this person will be responsible for liasing with the Chancellor over the day to day operation of the crusade - its movement etc

Chair of the Council: this person will steer discussion in the Council and identify its will.

There is no reason why one man should hold all three offices, although there is an obvious advantage in combining roles (2) and (3) in the same person.

At the moment, it is clear that Maximillan should be Imperial liason - he is already Chancellor, so let us cut out the middle man! Likewise if one of us is elected Chancellor in future, he should also be Imperial liason.

As to the Chair of the Council, I believe my experience and station as Prinz makes me most suitable for that task. However, I am happy to hand the post over to Maximillan for the remainder of his term as Chancellor if he believes it would make things run more smoothly.

That leaves the post of Battlefield Commander. I have proposed that we adopt a principle of a rotating command so that the battles are shared out amongst us equally. We are all capable commanders and it would seem invidious to deny each other the chance of glory. I quite happy to have the order of rotation determined by age, in deference to Dietrich.

So, let me pose the following questions to the Council:

(1) Are you happy for me to Chair this Council?

(2) Are you happy for Maximillan to be Imperial Liason for the remainder of his term in office?

(3) Are you happy to adopt a principle of rotating battlefield command, with the order determined by age?

If no one objects, I will take silence to mean consent. But I anticipate (3) in particular may be controversial so I welcome refinements, objections and counter-proposals.

TinCow
03-23-2007, 12:19
I agree with (1) and (2). I agree somewhat with (3). There is value in allowing us all to command the army, but I think that in the event of critical battles, our best man should take the field, regardless of age. I am actually thinking of myself in this matter, for I am the least experienced commander of the four of us. I would not wish to take command of a critical battle instead of a great general like Sir Dietrich simply because it was Thursday.

econ21
03-23-2007, 12:45
I see the wisdom in what you are saying, Chancellor, but I am concerned that the chain of command be clearly established. When the cry of battle comes, all (OOC: the Chancellor) must be clear who is in charge. Altering it depending on whether the battle is "critical" is problematic without a clear definition of "critical".

We can procede in several ways. We could adopt the rotating principle, but allow generals to defer to one another if they judge the battle too critical. Alternatively, we could make Dietrich the default battlefield commander with the understanding that he may delegate lesser battles.

For my part, I care only that we have clarity on this matter (OOC: on who the Chancellor initially gives the battle to). In practice, I suspect the issue of who commands in battle will matter little until we reach Jerusalem. I anticipate there will be few battles before then. I presume we will try to avoid wasting time and men in fighting - and making new enemies. After Jersusalem falls, however, all hell will break loose and we will want to revisit the issue of command, as the crusade itself will probably be sub-divided into separate armies.

TinCow
03-23-2007, 13:58
You have made several references to avoiding conflict with the Turks. I must admit that I do not share you feelings on this matter. Whatever political differences there may be between the Turkish and Egyptian hordes, they are all heathens in the eyes of God. At least the Byzantine Emperor is only misguided in his worship of Our Lord, whereas these eastern horselovers are abominations. Do not forget that their brethren in Iberia have been waging brutal war against the followers of Christ for hundreds of years. If they were at our borders, we would find our own peoples under similar threat.

A Crusade to Jerusalem is a war against all Muslim peoples, regardless of which leader they bow and grovel to. If leaving the Turks at peace is advantageous to us, we may certainly do so. However, if attacking them and taking their strongholds will give us worthwhile benefits, we should not hesitate for a moment.

My specific opinion on the matter is that we should give strong consideration to securing a chain of strongholds in the east. This will give greater security to pilgrims following our route and will provide us with defensive locations to fall back to in the event of an emergency. Remember that Jerusalem will be given to the Papal States and we will thus be unable to use it as a base of operations. If we do not have at least one other settlement secured before we take Jerusalem, we could find ourselves in a dangerous predicament. Heavy losses in the assault could make us too weak to capture a further stronghold. The situation will have to be evaluated once we arrive, but I firmly advocate for the siezure of the strongpoints at Adana and Acre before our assault on Jerusalem. Cities we should ignore or simply plunder, as they will be far too difficult for us to garrison and control. It would likely require the strength of the entire Crusade to keep a city like Antioch from revolting.

OverKnight
03-23-2007, 21:19
Duke von Saxony, I will gladly accede to your request. You may lead the Crusade for as long as you may.

I agree with Prinz Henry's three proposals. I believe Army Command should rotate in a simple matter so the Chancellor can keep track. Though I'm told I'm more experienced, we are all capable commanders here. Perhaps if I lived up to my reputation I wouldn't have lost as many spearmen as I did to the Milanese, figlio di puttana that I am. (OOC: One issue, Faction Leaders, not heirs, take pride of place in any stack or battle they're in, we'll have to keep this in mind once Henry is Kaiser.)

I'm still a bit uncertain on our route, allow me to show you this map I acquired:

https://img444.imageshack.us/img444/8933/crusadeku6.jpg

Once we have crossed the Hellespont, there is little doubt to our path. How we get to the straits is another question. I'm assuming we want to stay on the roads. There is the northern route through the Zagreb and Sofia regions and the southern route through the Ragusa, Durazzo and Thessalonica regions. Both routes assume we have taken Venice, otherwise we'll have to go north around the Alps.

The northern route I think is shorter, but we will violate Hungarian territory in addition to Byzantine. The southern route is longer, but our navy, if we have one, will be able to shadow us. We will be going through Ragusa and Durazzo and will most likely have to fend off Venetian armies. We will be violating Byzantine territory for a longer time with this route. They could, potentially, make crossing into Asia Minor very difficult.

If I was in a more temporal mindset, I would say we could use the southern route to take Ragusa and Durazzo and crush the Venetian presence on the continent. But that would take time and men, luxuries we will not have.

Do these routes look about right to you? I have tried to sync them with the terrain and available roads of the territories we will be passing through. Of course I cannot predict actual conditions, and our route has many choke points where potential enemy armies could hold us up or bleed us.


Let me ask a blunt question. There has been talk of a Crusader Chancellor, this would be ideal for the Crusade, and if we maintain an efficient messenger service it would be serviceable for the Reich. Duke von Saxony has expressed his disfavor about the idea. Maximillian has stated that he will not run again. This leaves us with two candidates. Considering why I am going on this Crusade, I'm sure the Diet would rather elect a Frenchman than myself. So, have you considered running mein Prinz?

TinCow
03-23-2007, 21:48
Duke von Kassel, your analysis of the possible routes is accurate, but I do not like either of these choices. First, I should say that I have ordered the various parts of the Crusade to rendevous at or near Zagreb. Any path we take will start from there.

Regarding the routes themselves, I am very wary of trespassing on Hungarian lands. So far they have remained neutral, but our relations with them are not good. It would be extremely bad if our parting gift to the Reich was yet another war. I do not believe we should trespass in Hungarian lands.

The Venetian route will require us to march by Ragusa which is heavily fortified and defended. We will most certainly find it slow going and will likely have to engage the Venetians in several battles just to break through their lines and emerge into Byzantine territory. The Venetians are very capable soldiers and it would be extremely discouraging if we lost a sizable portion of the Crusade before we had even entered Asia!

I believe we should pursue a third course, between the two you have outlined. Let us leave Zagreb and head directly into Byzantine lands. It will require some offroad travel, but I believe a slower start is better than the northern or southern alternatives. We can follow the road towards Sofia, but turn off south before we reach the Hungarian border. After we enter Byzantine territory, we can then head east to the Hellespont.

OverKnight
03-23-2007, 23:22
Very well, the middle route it is. The spies in our army will earn their keep scouting out mountain passes and cow paths.

Returning to the topic of what areas we should seize besides Jerusalem, I fully agree Acre should be a prime target. We shall reach it before Jerusalem on our route and it should be taken at that time. This will provide a recruiting center for new units and replacements for our current forces as well as a port. If the worst should happen at Jerusalem, it will also serve as a refuge. I see it as our main base in the Holy Land once Jerusalem is handed over to the Pope.

As for Adana, I am reluctant to take it. It is somewhat removed from our goal, and it may prove more of a drain on resources and men than a boon. To effectively lead the garrison, one of us would have to stay behind, an unenviable duty. Our first goal, besides Acre, should be Jerusalem. We can then brach out from there. Of course, I will reevaluate my position depending on the circumstances we find on the journey.

Ignoramus
03-23-2007, 23:47
Madness! Adana is the key to Antioch. With it secured, one of the fairest cities of the Levant would be ours. I suggest that we also recover Iconium for the Byzantines, which would salve the dishonour of trespassing upon their land.

TinCow
03-24-2007, 02:44
Fellow Crusaders, I can now provide you with a precise account of the army that will be following us to the Holy Lands. I have arranged for the following regiments to accompany us:

4 Bodyguards
5 Armored Spearmen
3 Teutonic Knights
3 Sergeant Spearmen (silver armor)
2 Peasant Crossbowmen (silver armor)
2 Pavise Crossbowmen
2.5 Dismounted Feudal Knights

This totals 22 separate regiments and is too large for a single army. We have two choices: (1) we can leave behind 2 regiments or (2) we can move as two forces. Prinz Henry and I have joined forces and are with 1/3 of the army east of Genoa. We will arrive near Zagreb in 2 turns. Duke von Saxony is with a small contingent of infantry and the majority of the Teutons. He is east of Nuremburg, will be joined by more infantry from Innsbruck next turn and will arrive near Zagreb in 2 to 3 turns. Duke von Kassel made a detour to hurry along the Dismounted Knights and the Pavise Crossbowmen from Staufen. He is east of Staufen and will arrive near Zagreb in 4 to 5 turns. I therefore regret to inform you that the Crusade will not be able to leave our lands during my term.

I have also arranged for 3 priests and a spy to accompany us on our journey. They are already assembled and waiting for us near Zagreb.

econ21
03-24-2007, 02:57
Chancellor, you are to be congratulated on assembling such a powerful host. For my part, I would be inclined to split the crusade into two. It will take a long time to reach our destination and if we are to capture settlements before Jerusalem - whether Adana, Antioch or wherever - the advance guard may lay siege first, giving the rearguard time to catch up.

I would recommend that if we do divide our forces, the advance guard leave behind some spears and cavalry to accompany Duke Otto. His dismounted knights and pavise crossbowmen are valuable assets that must be protected. It may be best to aim for two fairly balanced and equal sized forces. It may even be prudent for one other general to wait to join Duke Otto. I would be willing to wait for him at Zagreb if the Council judge it wise.

[OOC: two half stacks may get into more interesting encounters than a scarey full stack.]

OverKnight
03-24-2007, 08:29
A fine army Chancellor, your work is inspired. Perhaps we should add a few units of militia as arrow fodder?

Mein Prinz, I would be honored if you were to wait for me. I'm not so sure about Rupert though, he came back quite shaken from his mission with you. (OOC: Very nice read, a good twist on the inquisitor.) The first army should set out as soon as possible. I'm sure events will ensure that the second will catch up eventually.

Two armies would be useful, we could maximize the amount of men we could bring, and it would increase our flexibility. Move apart, fight together, as they say. If the leading army stops to give battle or besiege a town, the trailing army could leap-frog them and move on, or reinforce if necessary.

I would suggest the spy stay with the leading army. The priests, as has been suggested, should fan out ahead of the army. They will convert the heathens and provide some useful intelligence, though not of the quality of a trained observer. Are we planning to send some of our Cardinals? Or will it just be the newly recruited priests? Of course, we could send them ahead completely, if Jerusalem has a Catholic resurgence, it will make it easier to hold. I doubt our gift to the Papacy will meet with much approval if the Muslim inhabitants of the city riot and throw off their new master.

May God grant us success in this enterprise! For He has certainly given me a headache thinking about it.

Jalf
03-24-2007, 20:18
Apologies for my late arrival. I would be honored to join the crusade.

I see no need to force militia to join us on this journey, especially not as "arrow fodder"
von Mahren speaks the last words dripping with sarcasm

Our militia are local citizens who have agreed to undergo basic military training to defend their home. They should not be forced to march thousands of miles, especially not if their only purpose is to die.

There seems to be agreement about splitting the army, which sounds like a clever strategy. May I suggest the Prinz at least stays in the rear army. That one is less liable to be ambushed, and to be blunt, an ageing duke is more expendable than a royal Prinz.

As for me, a mere knight, I am expendable as well, and would prefer to follow my Duke von Saxony, but I will go wherever I am needed for the Crusade to succeed.

econ21
03-24-2007, 20:48
Welcome, Jonas, welcome! Now we are five! This will be a most formiddable crusade!

OverKnight
03-25-2007, 02:02
Welcome von Mahren.

My lords, the Venetians are threatening Zagreb, our rally point, and have taken a bridge to the east of the new castle on our route. We seemed to have decided not to take the southern road to the Hellespont, and so avoid marching through their lands as to conserve our forces. Yet, the gathering Crusade Armies, with Duke Leopold away assaulting Venice, are the only sizeable Imperial forces in the area. The fate of Zagreb may depend on us unless the Austrian Army breaks their seige of Venice and marches back.

What should be our approach here? As I see it, the first option is to avoid all contact with the Venetians and march to the Holy Land as best we can with our rally point disrupted. We'd preserve our forces, but but they would be split. Von Saxony, von Mahren and I are north of that river, the Prinz and Chancellor south of it. I'm not sure how the northern forces could proceed without violating Hungarian territory.

The second option is to engage Venetian armies that are on our line of march, including our rally point, but not to seek out further battles even from nearby enemies. We will take casualties, but we can start our journey more quickly.

The third option is to leave our territories with a bang, crushing all Venetian forces around Zagreb and then starting our journey. We'd take more losses than in option two, but we'd leave the Reich more secure.

I would support the second option. At the least, we must not allow those four Venetian units on the bridge east of Zagreb to disrupt the meeting of our forces. They must be driven off so that we can start the Crusade at the designated place. As for Zagreb itself, I would be uncomfortable leaving it in peril. We are on a Holy Crusade, but we cannot forget our duty to the Reich. If the Venetians besiege Zagreb, and Leopold is unable to return in time, I fear we must also relieve the castle.

Your thoughts my lords?

TinCow
03-25-2007, 02:30
I agree, Duke von Kassel. We could certainly engage the Venetian army, but our losses would surely be staggering. After such a battle we would have to wait for further reinforcements to be trained before departing and we simply do not have the luxury of time in the matter. Zagreb is vulnerable, but it is a castle and can hold out for some time. If the Austrians believe that the Venetian army must be confronted immediately, then Duke Leopold could easily abandon the siege of Venice and march eastwards. If he left now, he could arrive by next year, before the Venetians would have any chance to assault the castle.

We must not squander our strength in this fight. Austria has a choice to make: attempt to hold Zagreb until Venice falls, or abandon the siege of Venice and defend Zagreb. The Reich will surely face many difficult times in the years ahead, but do not forget why this is so. We are under repeated assault due to our excommunication. The objective of this Crusade is to attempt to redeem ourselves in the eyes of the Pope. We will do more good by traveling east as fast as possible. Until we reach Muslim lands, let us fight only when our paths are blocked and we have no other choice.

Since our orders will have to be relayed to the Chancellor, I would like to discuss again Prinz Henry's proposal about appointing an Imperial Liason. I was serving in this role until recently, but since I am no longer Chancellor, I do not hold this position anymore. Obviously, if a Crusader is elected to Chancellor, he should be the Imperial Liason. However, if this does not happen, I would gladly continue my service in this role. (OOC: I think the Imperial Liason should post Crusade movement/attack orders in the Chancellor's Reports thread, like with Household Armies)

Ituralde
03-25-2007, 13:19
A messenger from the House of Austria arrives in the Crusader Council and starts reading a message from Duke Leopold

Honoured Crusaders!

I am as concerned as you are by the presence of a large Venetian host south of Zagreb. However this should not impede your advance on the Holy Land. While my forces are still tied up in Venice I will assault the city as soon as possible to make a quick return to Zagreb.
While this may give the Venetians the time they need to storm Zagreb castle, it will be easier for me to wrest it from them once I know that my back is secured and the Venetian capital is crushed. We can not afford to abandon Venice again, it is ripe for the taking and far more important than Zagreb.
I appreciate your concerns for Zagreb Castle, but agree that you should not make more contact with the enemy than is absolutely necessary to pass through Croatia towards Byzantine lands.

econ21
03-25-2007, 13:28
I agree that Maximillan would be the best man to fulfill the role of Imperial Liason in the event that a non-Crusader is elected Chancellor. I also propose that in such an event, Maximillan should also Chair this Council. The Liason will need to be clear what is the will of the Council and thus is the best person to Chair it, to avoid misunderstandings and ambiguities.

Give Duke Leopold's intervention, I reluctantly support Maximillan's opinion that we should not engage the Venetians unless they block our path. For my part, it will be hard to ignore the presence of enemies close to our armies. But I will defer to the Duke of Austria on this matter.

The presence of the Venetians near Zagreb does reinforce my point made earlier that if the Crusade is to have two separate elements, both should be balanced forces capable of defending themselves. I confess, I rather hope the Venetians try to stop us.

TinCow
03-25-2007, 15:57
I thank you for your support, my Prince. I have faith that we will be fully successful with a man of your quality taking part. Regarding the splitting of armies, do you then propose two equally sized forces? I understand your strategic concerns, but I am not positive that it is necessarily the right choice. Our Crusade is not so large that we can field two armies without weakening one. An equal two army march would mean two armies of 11 to 12 regiments each. Should we be faced with an enemy at full strength, we would be in grave danger. On the other hand, if we split our forces unevenly, then the smaller force risks being caught by an enemy and destroyed easily. It is a difficult decision and one we will have to consider carefully.

One option could be to use a small leading force, but assign to it only mounted regiments. Two of us plus the three regiments of Teutonic Knights would make for a force capable of sweeping away small bands of brigands who block our way. An entirely mounted vanguard would also have much greater freedom of movement. Should they spot an enemy that is too strong for them, they could retreat to the safety of the main body, join some of their strength to ours, and we could confront the foe in full force.

Jalf
03-25-2007, 17:53
Curse those Venetians! Normally I would argue for striking back at them as soon as possible, but if Leopold believes he can handle things without assistance from the Crusaders, I suppose we should leave the matter in his hands and focus on our Crusade.

As for the disposition of troops, I suggest we simply get moving in the order we arrive. The first group will naturally become the front army, and the rest will meet up and form the rear army once the last troops have arrived. Once we are moving, the infantry units in the front army can detach and fall back to join the rear army, and if neccesary, cavalry units from the rear army can catch up with those at the front. But most importantly, this won't delay us more than neccesary. I would rather not wait longer than neccesary. We are going to be away for quite a few years as it is, and the longer we wait,the more time our enemies will have both to prepare attacks on the Reich, and to stop us from reaching Jerusalem. I say we move out as quickly as possible, and exchange the neccesary troops between the two armies while travelling.

econ21
03-25-2007, 20:08
Maximillan, if I understood your earlier report correctly, perhaps 2/3 of the crusade under you and Dietrich will arrive at Zagreb before the remainder under Duke Otto. If we proceed with your present poposal of leading with a mounted advance guard, would that not imply we slow down our progress as the bulk of the infantry wait for Duke Otto? My proposal for an equal division of forces would mean that you and Dietrich could continue ahead while I wait with Duke Otto with whatever men would be necessary to strengthen his contingent and make a balanced force. I believe our skill and fervour will allow us to overcome even superior enemy forces. If there are high casualties, we can always unite the crusade.

[OOC: Moving with half-stacks may make the AI try to attack us, which would be more fun. ]

Kagemusha
03-25-2007, 21:05
I support Prinz Henry´s latest proposal. Also by moving in two parts would allow us to recruit local mercenaries if needed. I think we may need horsemen with bows,before we reach our destination. I think the latter part of crusade will surely catch up the Vanguard when the Vanguard stumbles into enemy armies.

TinCow
03-25-2007, 22:05
In this Council all voices hold equal weight. I shall agree to a splitting of the armies. As such, I would like to propose the following division of forces:

Lead Army:
Maximillian Mandorf
Duke von Saxony
Jonas von Mahren
2 regiments Sergeant Spearmen
2 regiments Armored Spearmen
2 regiments Peasant Crossbowmen
1 regiment Teutonic Knights
partial regiment Dismounted Feudal Knights

Trailing Army:
Prinz Henry
Duke von Kassel
2 regiments Dismounted Feudal Knights
2 regiments Pavise Crossbowmen
2 regiments Teutonic Knights
2 regiments Armored Spearmen
1 regiment Sergeant Spearmen

This division will provide both armies with 4 regiments of cavalry, 2 ranged regiments, and 5 regiments of infantry, a perfect split. In addition, it will be simple to arrange. I will continue on with the entire force near Venice, where I shall meet up with the Franconians. They shall detach the following regiments which shall wait for Duke von Kassel to meet them: 2 Armored Spearmen, 1 Sergeant Spearmen, 2 Teutonic Knights. Prinz Henry will make his way to Duke von Kassel's force as best as he is able.

econ21
03-25-2007, 22:21
Maximillan, that division sounds excellent.

I agree with Dietrich: if we are to recruit any mercenaries, horse archers would be first on my shopping list.

Kagemusha
03-25-2007, 22:31
"Surely my friend Mandorf would put my name first in the first army list since im the most senior member of that army in rank,age and experience." Dietrich says with a little smile on his face.

"Gentlemen,do we have anything else to consider,or are we ready to start this journey after the Diet has been finished?"

TinCow
03-30-2007, 14:22
Prinz Henry, I agree with the Chancellor's opinion that we divert north around the Venetian forces. This will allow you to join Duke von Kassel quickly and avoid conflict with the Venetians. I have no doubt that we could defeat them, but our casualties could be higher than we would wish. I would prefer to delay battle until the armies are fully formed. Do you agree that we should divert through the Alps?

econ21
03-30-2007, 15:51
Count Mandorf, I am happy to defer to the judgement of the Chancellor and yourself on this matter. I look forward to joining forces with Duke Otto.

OverKnight
04-02-2007, 14:16
My lords, I have been informed by our priests travelling ahead of us that the Thessalonica region is Venetian. This along with Hungary's declaration of war against us is unfortunate, but we will be able to travel more quickly now. We also stand less of a chance of angering the Byzantines, for they have less lands to trespass on now.

Should this news change our route or approach?

TinCow
04-02-2007, 14:46
My standing orders to the Chancellor stated that in the event of war with Hungary, we are to proceed at the fastest possible route to the Hellespont. I admit, I have been busy with prayer and religious contemplation lately and have not looked at the map. Would one of the more geographically aware Crusaders educate me as to our exact position?

OverKnight
04-02-2007, 15:15
My cartographer appears to be drunk (OOC: ImageShack is acting cranky). But we are on the northern road in the Zagreb region about two years journey from the Hungarian border. If we keep following the road, which the Hungarians have been kind enough to pave, we will be following the northern route I proposed a few years ago.

Ah, he woke up and has provided a map.

https://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1903/routemo3.jpg

Should we hunt down that Heretic? I'm not sure if our priests could denounce him successfully.

econ21
04-02-2007, 17:28
Prinz Henry: As you know, I have a particular distaste for inquisitors. If he does not do for us first, then yes, I believe we should hunt him down. This may also provide an opportunity to reunite the crusade.

Has anyone received word from my son, Hans? Does he intend to join us?

TinCow
04-02-2007, 17:41
It is unfortunate that one of the priests who has volunteered to travel with us has fallen from the light of the Lord. It is our sworn duty to bring the true Word of God to the disbelievers and it would be a disservice if we allowed one of our own to pollute the Reich's lands with heresies. I agree with Duke von Kassel that our remaining priests may not be experienced enough to successfully prosecute such a man. However, Prinz Henry has had previous experience with the inquisitorial process. Perhaps he would be willing to give his personal attention to this matter, after his army has ensured that the man cannot escape.

OverKnight
04-04-2007, 11:11
With the passing of Kaiser Heinrich, God rest his soul, it will be impossible for me to continue as the leader of the trailing army. Kaiser Henry, may your reign bring us glory and redemption my lord, has pride of place, and of course leadership of the army falls to him.

The disadvantage to enforcing the chain of command is that the Kaiser, Kaiser Henry that is, does not use some of the more severe methods I employ to keep the troops moving. We might end up lagging behind Dietrich's army.

I believe it is of critical importance that we keep the two armies close together. Our separation provides us with flexibility, but I would not be so far apart that a large enemy force could isolate and attack one of us.

Your thoughts my lords?

OOC: This could also effect leadership while econ is on sabbatical. I'd be happy to fight any battles that crop up but it would be under the Kaiser Henry's banner, as it were, since he is the Faction Leader and not Otto's.

Edit: I game tested a bit, since Henry's promotion took place while he was in a stack with Otto, it seems that Otto is still the leader of the stack. However I'm not sure if this would hold up if we went into battle, I do know that if Henry leaves and reenters the stack, he assumes command then.

OverKnight
04-10-2007, 17:15
My lords, we face an interesting situation as we enter Hungary. If I could draw your attention to this map:

https://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4608/crusadeinhungarynh7.jpg

Getting the Crusade safely around the Fortress of Sofia will be challenging.

Should we change our course? Or should we draw the armies closer together? Or continue as we have been?

Thanks to Count Steffen, it seems the Hungarians have a new prince.

TinCow
04-11-2007, 13:50
Our course of action will be entirely dependant upon what the Hungarian Prince does this year. It is entirely possible that the Hungarians could attack us, remain where they are, defending Sofia, or even march off elsewhere. I believe we should wait to make such a decision until we see what they do.

Kagemusha
04-11-2007, 22:34
Dietrich Von Saxony:

I agree with Von Mandorf.If the Hungarians attack,we will fight them.If not we will move further.We have good mixed army compositions to destroy the Magyars,if they dare to attack us.

OverKnight
04-14-2007, 02:16
OOC Question:

Are there any significant posts from this thread that belong in the chronology? I have a link for the formation of the Council of Crusaders in 1154, but are there any other years we should link to this thread?

Obviously, the year that the Crusade officially began moving would be an important date. I'm guessing that's 1160, but I could be wrong.

I'd appreciate any input you all might have.

OverKnight
04-16-2007, 14:19
My lords, it is of critical importance that our newly returned cavalry reach us safely. However, I do not think the Crusade should wait for them in the Lion's den we now find ourselves in.

I ask that I be sent to retrieve the cavalry. I will take command of the force and catch up with the rest of you as soon as possible, most likely once you have crossed into Venetian held Thessaly. They should have a noble in command as they cross these plains. (OOC: There should be a human to lead them if the Teutons and mailed knights are attacked).

It will be dangerous, but no more so than what we face every day since we have left the Reich.

What say you my fellow Crusaders?

econ21
04-16-2007, 18:02
Duke Otto, your volunteering to escort my wayward son is a noble act and I am grateful for your chivalry. But I fear that being in proximity to a powerful Hungarian army, we cannot risk even a strong detachment of knights moving alone. If the Hungarians were to strike with a full army, surely you, my son and all your knights would fall? I believe the only prudent move would be for our entire rearguard army to reunite with Hans and his contingent of knights - even if that means halting or backtracking. The advanceguard army, under Duke von Saxony could continue on if it is judged prudent. The rearguard would catch up as best we can.

It greatly displeases me that the progress of our crusade must be delayed by the disobedient and glory-hunting antics of my son - particularly when it means we must tarry in such a dangerous situation as that in which we presently reside. Nonetheless, I do propose we must delay - not to protect my son, but the many knights that he brings with him. They will be a valuable resource in our many battles to come in the Holy Land. We cannot risk them being squandered if they are attacked alone without infantry when scarcely beyond our Reich's borders.

[ooc: I am not sure what the situation in the savegame is, but if Duke Otto is proposing to end a turn alone with Hans and the knights near a full stack Hungarian army, I think that's too risky. Better to move our entire stack to join Hans.]

Kagemusha
04-16-2007, 19:33
I think that Kaiser is right in his assumptions and i support manouvering like he has suggested. I think that we must move as large united forces or we might never see even Bosphorus.

econ21
04-16-2007, 20:50
I have now consulted the maps (OOC: 1174-2.zip) and better understand the situation. The practical implication of my earlier statement is that the rearguard move back to the bridge to rendezvous with the knights. I believe this union would make both the knights and the rearguard more capable of defending themselves against the Hungarians. I am quite set in my mind that this should be done.

What is an open question is the fate of the advanceguard. They could either march on, hold in place or return with the rearguard. I believe this should ultimately be the decision of Duke Dietrich and Count Maximillan. Personally, I think they should press on. I always envisaged the advanceguard moving ahead. For it to back track with the rearguard would too conservative and backward a step. Staying in place, alone against the Hungarians would seem the worst option of all - providing neither progress nor security.

OverKnight
04-17-2007, 02:04
Let me illustrate my plan before it is dismissed:

https://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8452/crusadehungaryplaneg1.jpg

Kaiser Henry's army has a clear path into the eastern pass into Thessaly. Duke Dietrich's army will have to run off the small Hungarian army to his west before following. At the end of this year, you will both be out of Hungarian territory. I doubt they will pursue you into Venetian territory as they are not at war with them.

At the same time I will meet up with the cavalry back at the bridge over the Morava river. The following year (turn) I will be able to cross into Venetian territory by the western pass, avoiding the Hungarians. Using the superior movement rate of the horsemen, I will be able to avoid any enemies and catch up with the Crusade before it reaches the Hellespont.

This plan has the advantage of keeping the majority of the Crusade together, and utilizing the superior speed of the cavalry to avoid any delays in our march to the Holy Land.

Edit: I would not propose this plan if I was not confident of its success. Unleash me, and I swear I will bring these men back.

Please reconsider my lords.

OverKnight
04-17-2007, 11:08
OOC: I feel the current structure works well for deciding strategic goals and setting standard operating procedure and movement orders. However, when it comes to short term problems and tactics, such as being surrounded by the pink horde or retrieving the cav, getting a consensus from everyone in a timely fashion for the Chancellor is problematic.

Perhaps if a situation like this arises again, the Chancellor can consult with the Crusaders who he can access at the moment to decide a course of action. This is not ideal, but it is expedient. I'm sure whoever is available would have a good idea of the thinking of the others and would keep in mind they would have to eventually defend their decision.

On the bright side this will only be a problem for 6 more years.

TinCow
04-17-2007, 12:00
I must say that like the rest of you, I was reluctant to see Duke von Kassel expose himself to attack from Hungarian forces. However, the plan he has mapped out is well thought-out and seems to propose a reasonable possibility of success. I will support his decision if he wishes to commit to this act.

OverKnight
04-17-2007, 13:13
Thank you Maximillian, I appreciate your support.

It may be too late in the season (OOC: I'm not sure if end of turn has been pressed), but I am confident that I can bring our cavalry back without delaying the Crusade.

TinCow
04-17-2007, 13:22
I have a question, my lords. Kaiser Henry has spoken as if he believes that his son, Hans, will be joining the Crusade with the returning Teutons. Yet Duke von Kassel's maps do not indicate that Hans is with the Teutons. What is the status of the Kaiser's son?

OverKnight
04-17-2007, 13:32
The last I heard the boy was in Budapest. I have heard rumors he has changed his mind yet again and wishes to join the Crusade.

That is commendable, but I for one will not wait for him, he has already delayed us enough. He could try to catch up, but that would be unwise. Still he takes after his grandfather, so he might just brave the Hungarians with only his retainers.

TinCow
04-17-2007, 15:41
If that boy ever arrives in my camp, he had best be prepared for a monumental haranguing. His petulance, indecisiveness, and disobedience has caused much strife for the Crusaders. We are engaged in an act of self-less service to God and the Papacy. There is no room for pompous young upstarts who think of themselves first and the Crusade second. I don't care who his father is, I will whip him myself if he causes further problems for us and then has the gall to show his face in my camp.

TinCow
04-17-2007, 17:48
Crusaders! We stand now at the edge of Christendom. The Venetians may be the enemies of the Reich and the Byzantines our allies, but in the heavens the situation is reversed. We now begin the long journey through strange and unfamiliar lands, populated by peoples who do not know the Word. There will be many trials before us, but we must remain true to our purpose and to ourselves. So long as we remain true to Christ, we cannot be defeated, even if our mortal shells are destroyed.

TinCow
04-22-2007, 21:16
Christian Brothers,

While preparing information to be sent to the Imperial Librarian, I was informed that a Jihad has been called by the Muslim infidels. A large Egyptian force has taken up arms and was last spotted somewhere north of Iconium. I must admit that I was somewhat surprised by this, as I assumed the Chancellor would have informed us if news of such an unholy mission had reached his ears. I can only assume that he is unaware of the Jihad, and it thus falls upon us to discuss the matter.

I do not know the ultimate objective of this army, but given its location in comparison to the Egyptian territories, I assume that it is marching against our Byzantine allies. While the Eastern Romans are certainly heretics in their own right, I am certain that we all agree that they are the lesser of two evils. We have journeyed this far to defend the lands of Christ and Christendom itself against the Muslim plague. What better way to begin our true purpose than by marshaling our Holy Armies to meet the Unholy Host of the Egyptians?

Crusaders, I propose that we send forth our scouts, locate this Egyptian Jihad, and destroy it as a symbol to all the infidels that their time of blasphemy and desecration is at an end.

OverKnight
04-22-2007, 23:31
It is good to be back among my fellow Crusaders!

Count Mandorf, if we encounter this Turkish Jihad while on our journey, I say we destroy them. As for seeking them out, that could delay our Crusade for years. Our goal is Jerusalem, the sooner we liberate the Holy City, the better.

econ21
04-23-2007, 00:19
Welcome back, Duke Otto. I salute your strategic cunning in recognising the potential to bring the cavalry back without delaying the crusade and your personal courage in volunteering for the task.

I agree with your stance on the jihad. We should engage it if we can find and reach it without overly deviating from our course (OOC: if it becomes a turn's move away). Otherwise, we must press on.

TinCow
04-23-2007, 01:50
That is a sensible plan and I will agree to it. We shall leave our fate in the hands of God.

OverKnight
04-23-2007, 09:19
Another consideration is that the longer we spend in Byzantine lands, the more we will anger our unwilling hosts.

OverKnight
04-27-2007, 12:09
My lords,

Depending on how the Jihad army moves (I assume towards Constantinople), I believe only the leading army of the Crusade would be able to engage it in 1182. If this is the case, should we move on without engaging?

When I have the oppurtunity I will send our spy ahead to see if he can give us a better estimate of their forces.

econ21
04-27-2007, 12:39
I do not think it would be sensible to engage a Jihad with only half the crusade; the losses would be too great. However, if the target is indeed Constantinople, we may be able to combine to defeat it without it taking us too far off our path.

I agree our spy's activities should be devoted to tracking down the jihad. It might be wise to send the spy to Constantinople and if the jihad is not found, to have him backtrack through Anatolia along the likely path of the jihad from Muslim lands. If the jihad is found to be near us, I do not believe we should ignore it. If we can quickly unite to intercept it, we should do so. But if it just eludes us, heading for Constantinople, I think we should review our situation before pressing on.

Constantinople is too important a city for its fate to be ignored without careful consideration. Given that we are currently so near the city, if it is threatened imminently, I would be inclined to move to defend our allies. If we are too late and it falls but we are still in the vicinity, we might even think about retaking it. Whether we return it to our allies or claim it for the Reich, the benefits may well justify an extra turn or two's time added to the crusade.

[OOC: A full stack jihad vs crusade battle for Constantinople would be too juicy to pass up!]

OverKnight
04-27-2007, 13:03
I will pass on more information once we have it next year. The spy will indeed shadow the Jihad army.

OOC: A Crusade meant for Jerusalem sacking Constantinople? We're Germans, not Venetians. :laugh4:

TinCow
04-27-2007, 14:52
We must stop the infidels at all costs! They are a threat to all Christendom and their foul religion must be stopped and pushed back into the Eastern wilderness. If both armies cannot combine to attack them immediately, let us block their movements with the lead army, while the rear army brings up our strongest and most capable fighters.

Kagemusha
04-27-2007, 15:03
Then God´s will it is.Lets kill the heathens.

OverKnight
04-27-2007, 16:50
Very well, it seems the will of this Council is that we pursue the Jihad army and destroy it.

Let me make some suggestions.

First, Duke von Saxony should lead the battle. He is already in command of the vanguard, and I see no reason to change this.

Second, select elements of the rearguard army should be brought up to merge with the vanguard. If we are to battle Jihadists we should bring the full strength of the Crusade against them. We must do this to keep our casualties low, so we may continue to Jerusalem. (OOC: We should form a balanced full stack to take on their 22 unit stack)

Third, the Kaiser and myself should be in a mobile cavalry reserve behind the main army. (OOC: We have more than 20 units, so keep whatever is left over in a small army that can be brought in as reinforcements, I suggest all cav. Henry should be left out of the attacking stack, otherwise he commands. Let's give Dietrich a good send off.)

Your thoughts, my Lords?

econ21
04-27-2007, 17:08
Sounds like a plan, Chancellor.

OverKnight
04-28-2007, 08:55
The new configuration of the armies:

Vanguard:

Duke von Saxony
Count Mandorf
Count von Mahren
2 Teutonic Knights

3 Dismounted Feudal Knights
5 Armoured Sergeants
1 Sergeant Spearman

4 Peasant Crossbowmen
2 Pavise Crossbowmen

Rearguard:

Kaiser Henry
Chancellor von Kassel
Count Hans
2 Mailed Knights
1 Teutonic Knights

2 Sergeant Spearmen

I tried to assemble a balanced assault army, with a cavalry reserve. If needed we could leave behind the 2 Sergeant Spearmen for a short while.

I would also like to welcome Count Hans to the Crusade. You have picked an interesting time to join us young sir. Should we kill the fatted calf?

Kagemusha
04-28-2007, 21:24
"Im ready to destroy the heathens. I have started to worry that i might not even see one before im buried in this god forsaken land. But then on other hand who know´s if i live 100 years and outlive everyone on this crusade."

Dietrich sits down laughing to himself.

econ21
04-28-2007, 21:30
I would also like to welcome Count Hans to the Crusade. You have picked an interesting time to join us young sir. Should we kill the fatted calf?

The Kaiser with consternation: By God, Chancellor Otto! I know my son has caused us some angst - and put on a little weight - but there is no reason to call him a fatted calf! And killing him is rather an extreme punishment for his insubordination.

OverKnight
04-29-2007, 01:38
I am sorry for the misunderstanding, it was a poor attempt at a joke. I was referring to one of the Parables of Jesus from the Gospel of Luke.

http://nephi.org/prodigalson/

No offense was meant.

econ21
04-29-2007, 01:46
The Kaisers looks astounded at the Chancellor and then roars with laughter: My dear Chancellor, do not apologise - I understood you completely; it was I who was making a poor attempt at a joke.

Looks around at the sombre Crusader Council and whispers sheepishly to Duke Otto: I only hope we make a better fist of running the Reich than we do of humour.

OverKnight
04-29-2007, 04:37
Otto cracks up in a mixture of relief and understanding of the Kaiser's joke. His expression becomes more serious as he speaks:

Ah, of course. I am afraid matters of state and Crusade have blunted my appreciation for a good jest.

Due to my move to block in the Jihad army, the army dispostion I gave earlier is now defunct. I will attempt to restore it in the new year before we attack.

May God bless our righteous attack on the infidels.

TinCow
04-30-2007, 14:14
Chancellor von Kassel, my Duke...

*Maximillian Mandorf kneels and bows his head.*

For whatever critcisms and insults I have thrown your way in the past, I am truly sorry. By reconciling the Reich with the Pope, you have cleansed all of the stain of our past actions. It is the beginning of a new era of a true Christian Reich! You have succeeded where both Duke Leopold and myself failed. I can never express my thanks to you for seeing this matter brought to a close. I feel as if the weight of the world has been lifted from my heart.

*Maximillian stands and turns to the rest of the Council.*

Fellow Christian Knights, with the Reich once again in the Pope's favor, I think it is time to request his official blessing on our Crusade. Let us petition the Pope to call a full Crusade on Jerusalem!

OverKnight
04-30-2007, 14:54
Otto smiles and looks a bit flustered but also proud:

I have only balanced the scales on my actions in the past and the present. We shall see now what the future holds. Yet I am relieved as well. We can go forward now.

After we battle the Jihad, I will write the Pope. God willing our victory will be the evidence the Pope needs to recognize our Crusade.

Still, even though we did have a hand in his elevation, we are not high in Pope Lanbertus's standing yet. We have much to prove. If I cannot get his recognition this year, I will endeavor to do so until I have it.

Edit: OOC: We're 6/10 on the Pope-o-meter. We'd probably have done better with an Imperial Cardinal, but wait a few years, we might get lucky again. Lanbertus has two good qualities, he's forgiving and he's old.

FactionHeir
04-30-2007, 15:26
Hans, who had been camping somewhat secluded from the rest of the crusader camp, first heard the news of reconciliation after a rider dismounted in camp and out of a sudden a great cheer was to be heard among the common folk. Wondering what would case this commotion, he had sent for one of the camp guards to explain.
With these news, he finally could with good spirit officially announce his partake in the crusade. It would also mean that he would have to face the elder members who certainly would have their own thoughts about his perilous journey through hostile lands. But he was ready. With the reconciliation, it was time for him to reconcile with the others as well, he thought to himself. And without much further ado, he helped Adalberth onto his feet and marched towards the officers' tent.

TinCow
04-30-2007, 16:13
*Maximillian Mandorf is standing in a corner with a few Teutonic Knights. After spotting the new arrival, he murmurs a few words to the men, who snorth and attempt to stifle a laugh. Mandorf turns to face the Kaiser's son.*

It is nice to see that you made it here in one piece. Please tell me you are not here to abduct our entire infantry line this time.

Kagemusha
04-30-2007, 17:08
Duke Von Saxony

I think that this is one of the happiest days of my life. I think that this is work of the Lord. At the same day we are back in the grace of the mother Church and the same day we have utterly and completely destroyd the heathens who tryed to capture the lands of the Christians. We lost little over hundred of our men and almost none of our Knights. Only 45 of the Jihadist escaped from the battle and scattered to four winds.The rest are dead.

Here is my short report:

http://img12.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=48678_jihad7_122_861lo.jpg

Dietrich smiles happily and sips some water.

econ21
04-30-2007, 17:55
Kaiser Henry: Gentlemen, gather round! By God, this is a time for a toast and a feast!

Wine is distributed to the entire Council, who circle round the command post.

Noble crusaders, I give you four toasts.

First, to my son Hans, for bravely travelling to join us on his own, using his guile and cunning to evade all danger!

Second, to Duke von Saxony, for leading our crusade to a first, magnificent victory over the heathens!

Third, to Count Manfred, for inspiring us to come on this great quest to regain our immortal souls.

And finally, to Chancellor von Kassel, for achieving what few of us thought possible in our lifetimes, a reconciliation with Rome!

Gentlemen, I am truly honoured to be in such company.

Kagemusha
04-30-2007, 18:16
Hear hear,Mein Kaiser! It seems that the grace of the Lord is upon us truly! I drink to you mein herr!We have teched a lesson to the heathens about how hard German steel bites,now we should give the message of our victory to the pope so others could join this Holy mission.

Dietrich Von Saxony

FactionHeir
04-30-2007, 20:20
Indeed a great victory Duke of Saxony. It is a pity that I could not partake in it, but it was indeed a masterpiece of strategy that you pulled off there. I am certain that it will go down in our history and your skill and valor be an inspiration to other men.

Count Mandorf, as you know infantry is too slow for my purposes, knight would do much better, would you not think so? *wink* But no, I am here to stay and commit my life to this most holy crusade to repent the sins that I have already accumulated at my young age.

Let us indeed celebrate to our victory over these heathens and to our reconciliation my fellow crusaders. *raises his cup toward his father and then the other crusaders in turn*

I am sure you would like explanations from me, so please meet me after the feast at my tent.

OverKnight
05-01-2007, 09:36
Otto drinks deeply of his wine and bows his head to the Kaiser:

An excellent vintage, your Majesty, or perhaps it is our victory that makes it taste so sweet.

Otto raises his glass to Duke von Saxony.

Congratulations on your triumph, my lord! I am glad the Byzantines fought well, for their celebrations have delayed the departure of your army. However, it would be a shame to pull our soldiers from the revelry, though I fear there will be many bastards born in Nicaea nine months hence. Our forces that were not involved in the battle have been moved to the border with the Turks. We will only cross into their land once our full strength is assembled again.

Otto turns to Hans.

I would not regret missing the melee, young Count, your retainers were too far behind the Duke's forces. There will be more than enough battles for all of us in the future. Perhaps I should send you ahead to scout?

Otto's expression turns serious.

Speaking of battles, it seems Duke Hummel will find his own at Rheims. I hope that fool does not endanger our new found peace. Mein Kaiser, he does not respond to my letters, perhaps you, a Swabian by birth and the man who elevated him, might have better luck.

Glancing at Maximillian, Otto smiles a bit ruefully.

It seems we have both been blessed with mutinous Dukes in our Chancellorships, Maximillian. Perhaps the Lord has sent him to teach me humility, or to show me the errors of my past actions. I hope he is soon brought to heel.

I believe I will have another glass of this excellent wine.

econ21
05-01-2007, 10:24
The news of Duke Hummel's rebellion has darkened the Kaiser's expression and he throws his wine into the fire.

Ulrich's reckless actions risk undoing all that the Chancellor has done! I believe I speak for Duke von Saxony and Count Manfred as well in saying that the greatest priority now for our crusade is to achieve Papal sanction for it. Anything that jeopardises that will not be tolerated.

Turns to Chancellor Otto:

I have half a mind to call an Emergency Session of the Diet to nip this business in the bud. But with you as Chancellor, Duke Otto, that may not be necessary. My people are trying to restrain Duke Hummel, but I am not confident he will listen. However, given the Swabians failed to set timely standing orders for their Household Army, as Chancellor, by law you still retain final control over it. If their actions would lead to our excommunication, I would urge you to exercise that veto. At the very least, you must notify me if things come to head - I will call an Emergency Session before I allow us to be excommunicated again.

FactionHeir
05-02-2007, 16:02
Good work on having our crusade sanctioned by the papacy, chancellor. These news should lift the spirits of our men and allow us to push toward Jerusalem with ease and crush the heathens that occupy this holy city.

May I also suggest that we take both Acre and Gaza after, or even while, we take the holy city to allow us to create a foothold in these lands to spread the word of Christ? As we are travelling in two camps, the smaller one could take Acre even before Jerusalem is besieged and also shield our backs. WIth your permission, I would even desire to lead such an assault.

OverKnight
05-02-2007, 16:08
With the Crusade called, I ask the Council for their advice. I would ask all of you to review our current situation and lend me your wisdom.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1186.zip

Our armies have yet to officially take the Cross, I will wait to do so until we have decided on matters such as whether to bring our agents back into the army with us, recruitment of Crusade forces and mercenaries and any other matters the Council sees fit to raise.

With the blessing of the Pope comes great spiritual power that will imbue our men with a near divine drive and morale, but there is danger as well if we are not careful.

I await the views and decisions of the Council.


OOC: I've run crusades before, but I don't consider myself a true expert. Any insights you might have would be appreciated. I'm going to bed soon, so we'll have time to review before I start moving things around.

FactionHeir
05-02-2007, 16:30
On the matter of our spy and priests, I believe they should move at their own speeds towards Jerusalem and either scout ahead for ambushes and hostile forces or convert the heathens along the way to mark a trail of catholicism where our crusade has passed. The priests tend to be too fragile to keep up and as such will move slightly behind, although they will be in Jerusalem in time I believe as we will need time to build siege equipment to assault the walls.

As the jihadist movement seems to be destroyed, I doubt they will attempt to create another one. As such, moving straight towards our target would be in everyone's best interest before our soldiers become disheartened at our lack of faith.

I would also suggest that we not strain the Imperial treasury too much by recruiting mercenaries. We are very close to the target now and likely will not need additional men. I feel we should lend pilgrims we meet along the way a helping hand though and guide and proect them to Jerusalem. The pope and god will both certainly look favorably upon us for this.

My offer to lead an attack Acre still stands however.

TinCow
05-02-2007, 16:43
Otto, you have done the Crusade and the Reich a great service with your recent negotiations with the Pope. I truly thank you for your pious efforts.

I am still of the opinion that we should take Adana as an outpost of the Reich before we move on Jerusalem. So long as we besiege the castle and assault it quickly, there should be no danger of our Crusading soldiers deserting. I will personally volunteer to stay behind with a small garrison and hold Adana for the light of Christendom.

Regardless of the decision on Adana, I believe that the conquest of Acre must be considered along with the final attack on Jerusalem. Jerusalem will be given to the Pope as soon as possible, so it is essential that we secure another settlement from which to operate in the Levant. Acre is reputed to be a strong fortress that is easily accessible by sea. If we are able to capture it, we could hold out there against a foe many times our size. Furthermore, the coastal location would allow for the easy transfer of forces back and forth between Adana and Acre by sea, should it be necessary.

econ21
05-02-2007, 17:35
Truly, the Reich has been blessed under your leadership, Duke Otto. The news that the Papacy has sanctioned our crusade on Jerusalem is marvellous! In the light of this news, I am even inclined to be more charitable to Duke Hummel and his Swabian "rebellion".

I will study the maps and our dispositions later, but have some immediate thoughts. I believe we are too many to form a single crusading army - two separate forces will have to be formed and it is essential that both be led by generals rather than captains whose loyalty and skill in battle are questionable. For the general(s) who leads the army that is not part of the crusade, it will be a thankless task - they will not receive the praise and rewards of those who travel with the main crusade. [OOC: the boosts to stats, traits and ancillaries.] If my son, Hans, is willing to pay this price, I think we should take seriously his offer to lead our second smaller contingent. If Maximillan or some other crusader wishes to take that leadership role, that could be considered as an alternative. Regardless, the non-crusading army might be joined by Jonas von Mahren, if Duke von Saxony consents. Both Hans and Jonas are young, and I believe we will be able to find future opportunities for them to crusade, so they would not be forgoing the glory of a true crusade forever.

My inclination would be for the main crusading army to march straight to Jerusalem. While Maximillan may be right that a diversion would not led to desertion, I would not like to risk it and it does not seem necessary to take such a risk given that we will have a second non-crusading army. The smaller contingent could take Adana and, if they have time, Acre. After we have taken Jerusalem, we should consider targeting a city with good trade connections - perhaps Antioch or Cairo. I would advise that our priests be set to work preparing the ground immediately, as otherwise religious differences will make it hard to hold onto a large population centre.

It is my understanding that the Reich will not pay the upkeep of any troops in the main crusading army. If that is the case, then I believe we should hire all the crusaders and mercenaries we can get. That will allow us to bulk up the smaller non-crusading army, and in due course provide sufficient garrisons for Adana and Acre, with German troops. We can always dismiss mercenaries after the crusade concludes if their cost is excessive. Any true crusaders we can find may be worth retaining however - I have a particular regard for the unhorsed knights who can sometimes be found in the Levant; they fight like tigers and ask for little in worldly goods.

I would welcome the thoughts of other generals on these suggestions, while I consult the maps and review our forces.

TinCow
05-02-2007, 18:01
Kaiser Henry,

Surely we could simply form two separate Crusade armies. We have enough men to allow for this and they could be additionally increased in size by Christian pilgrims and local mercenaries. If this were the case, I would volunteer to lead the second army, which would besiege and take Adana. So long as this army does not leave garrison duty of that castle before Jerusalem is taken, there would be no risk of desertion. At the same time, the rest of you could continue on towards Jerusalem as fast as possible.

If you would agree to this, I believe I could make do with a smaller and lower quality force than those who would attack Jerusalem. The minimum 8 regiments could be met for the smaller force by my own bodyguard, the 3 regiments of sergeant spearmen, the single regiment of Teutons commanded by my old friend Sir Welf, 2 regiments of peasant crossbowmen, and 1 regiment of armored spearmen. This would leave a full 20 regiments for the Jerusalem army, including all of our dismounted knights and pavise crossbowmen. Surely this force would be sufficient to take the city. It would also allow for all of our Crusading generals to gain some formal recognition for their efforts and all but myself would be highly celebrated when Jerusalem falls.

econ21
05-02-2007, 18:16
Ahh, good point, Manfred - I had assumed that the Pope would allow only one army to join the crusade but you are right, that assumption has no basis.

Let us think some more about the composition of the armies. I have asked around and unfortunately, there are no crusading mercenaries available. We could attract the equivalent of 6 regiments of pilgrims. Among the "regular" mercenaries, there are three regiments of Turcopoles and four of Armenian archers.

I will give some thought to the composition of the two armies, but I believe recruiting some mercenaries and perhaps even pilgrims might be sensible given the lack of upkeep.

And I would be inclined to divide the two armies more equally than the 20:8 divison you propose.

Let me come back to the table when I have thought more.

econ21
05-02-2007, 21:56
After reviewing our rosters, I propose the following:

1st Crusader Army - destination Jerusalem

Henry
Otto
Dietrich
Hans
Jonas
1 regiment Teutons
1 regiment mailed knights
2 regiments dismounted foot knights
2 regiments Armoured sergeants
2 regiment Spear sergeants
1 regiment Pavise crossbow
2 regiments Crossbow militia
1 regiment Turcopoles
3 regiments pilgrims

2nd Crusader Army - destination Adana

Maximillan
2 regiments Teutons
1 regiment mailed knights
1 regiment dismounted foot knights
3 regiment Armoured sergeants
1 regiment Spear sergeant
1 regiment Pavisse crossbow
2 regiments Peasant crossbows
1 regiment Turcopoles
3 regiments pilgrims

I agree with Maximillan that we should aim to bring all possible generals to Jerusalem. However, this means the 1st Crusader Army will be very powerful and therefore we can afford to have a more equal division of forces so that 2nd Crusader Army can handle anything the Egyptians may throw at it.

I expect this division to be only temporary until Jerusalem falls. Thereafter our forces may be more dispersed. [OOC: we have a 2 generals/army house rule to abide by!]

FactionHeir
05-02-2007, 22:27
Father, emperor, while the pope might feel that an army below the strength of eight regiments may be in danger of not completing the crusade successfully, from what I read in the books (OOC: watching AI do it and trying it out myself) many a times did a crusading army lose men in battle or due to desertion and yet the pope allowed them to continue crusading at their own peril. We could thus consider another division whereby I could split from the main crusading army shortly before we reach Jerusalem and besiege Acre. If luck is with me, I might even be able to bring most of the men who take Acre with me to rejoin before the assault on Jerusalem.
What do you think? I know there are risks involved, but who dares wins, does he not?


OOC: We can go by the roster you posted and then before reaching Jerusalem split Hans and say just enough units to take Acre from the main army to besiege Acre while the rest continues (quarter day journey) to Jerusalem to besiege it. Next turn, Hans takes Acre and moves himself and as many fast units as he can down to the main crusading army and joins the full assault. Has worked fine in my SP games so far, especially with crusader double movement of units.

econ21
05-02-2007, 23:06
Hans, my son, what you say is interesting although I suspect we may have to wait until we see the deployment of the enemy before committing ourselves to such a plan.

What we need to decide now is the composition of the two crusader armies. If there is any fine-tuning or rethinking of the division I have proposed, we should discuss that now while the Chancellor rests. It would be good to reach a consensus by the time the Chancellor has awokened so he may write his orders.

FactionHeir
05-02-2007, 23:27
Forgive me for thinking only of my plan father, I agree that we ought to consider the army compositions and ready the men...

*studies the notes on the officer's table and the map*

Hmm yes, I agree for the most part with your proposal, but maybe it would be wiser to give Count Mandorf the turcopoles and the pavise crosbow regiments in exchange for two of his pilgrim groups? Afterall the pilgrims will want to stay in the holy land and journey towards Jerusalem instead of staying at Adana. They would also help us alleviate initial problems with garrison staffing I believe. Furthermore, we would not have much use of mounted archers and crossbows for our sieges to the south or even defending against possible besiegers, while Count Mandorf to the north is facing both Turks and Egyptian field armies and might need the additional missile support instead of pilgrims to take fire.

TinCow
05-02-2007, 23:41
I will agree to that division of forces if you wish, but in truth I think that I am being provided with a far stronger force than is necessary. Rumor has it that Adana is a massive fortress which will likely provide us with the ability to train those Christians who make the pilgrimage to the Levant into professional soldiers of very high quality. As long as I am provided with a large enough force to take the fortress in the first place, holding it should not be an issue. Any lack of quality soldiers can be quickly made up from the facilities of the fortress itself.

Accordingly, here is my slightly altered proposal for the armies, which gives a greater share of quality regiments to the Jerusalem force.

1st Crusader Army - destination Jerusalem

Henry
Otto
Dietrich
Hans
Jonas
2 regiments Teutons
1 regiment mailed knights
3 regiments dismounted foot knights
3 regiments Armoured sergeants
2 regiment Pavise crossbow
2 regiments Crossbow militia
1 regiment Turcopoles
1 regiment Pilgrims

2nd Crusader Army - destination Adana

Maximillian
1 regiment Teutons
1 regiment mailed knights
2 regiment Armoured sergeants
3 regiment Spear sergeant
2 regiments Peasant crossbows
1 regiment Turcopoles
4 regiments Armenian Archers

You will note my preference for Armenian Archers over Pilgrims. The archers will be of great use to me in defending Adana against any attack, as they could tip their arrows with fire, allowing them to burn the Muhammadan siege engines. I have removed Pilgrims from the Jerusalem army simply because the greater focus of quality regiments in that army does not provide room for them.

econ21
05-03-2007, 08:13
I am happy to agree with Maximillan's plan. The Armenian archers are attractive if we can afford it. I suggest we leave it to the Chancellor to arrange the two armies as he sees fit, guided by the suggestions that have been made so far which seem in broad agreement.

OverKnight
05-03-2007, 08:26
I thank you for your wisdom my fellow Crusaders. I will immediately have both our Armies take the Cross. I will then reconfigure them as suggested. We will have time to come to final decisions on Adana, Acre and other targets as we will not reach them in this year.

The priests and spy will remain ahead of our army, making their best way forward. The spy will attempt to infiltrate Adana to give us a better idea of what we are up against.

I will endeavor to recruit the mercenaries needed, but the Imperial coffers are not bottomless. I spent much of the treasury to obtain reconciliation, and I must now focus on building at home. Duke Hummel's action are just a preview of what would come if I focus too many resources on the Crusade while ignoring the home front.

My own inclination is that we focus on Jerusalem exclusively until the city is taken. Once we have liberated it, we must prepare for the transfer to the Pope by building religious structures worthy of the Pontiff, and making sure the population would not throw off his rule after it is gifted to him. This time of preparation will allow us to send armies out to nearby Egyptian holdings so that we may carve out our own holdings. Following this approach, we would not have to worry about desertion.

Count Mandorf, you were the main architect of this Crusade, I would have you there at it's completion.

However, as I said, we will have time to debate this.

econ21
05-03-2007, 09:07
On the matter of mercenaries, I understand the budget constraint, Chancellor. Indeed, I was just pondering whether we should only hire the six regiments of pilgrims. Since these regiments require only 35 gold in upkeep when the crusade is completed, they would be the most cost-effective garrisons for the cities we will ultimately wish to take in the Holy Land. We can only hire the pilgrims now and the recruitment cost (90 gold) is not excessive.

Turcopoles we can hire later if necessary and Armenian archers are not markedly superior to the peasant archers we can hire in due course.

OverKnight
05-03-2007, 09:38
When I mentioned mercenaries, I meant the regular mercenaries always available for hire. I will recruit those who are moved by their faith to particpate in our endeavour.

Kagemusha
05-03-2007, 10:11
I also agree with Von Mandorf´s plan. I think that the Jihad army we faced didnt quit show up the true construction of the muslim armies we are about to face.Im afraid that those armies will have lot more missiles,then what we have faced so far and hiring missile troops would be a wise move for us.

FactionHeir
05-03-2007, 11:32
Indeed it seems that I was mistaken, for there is a Turkish jihad army just to the north east of our current position *Hans looks up from the map*
While I would feel that striking them would be appropriate, I fear that this might hinder our progress towards Jerusalem, which our men might not take lightly, for they do not quite understand the importance of destroying a heathen banner.
However, it might be possible that several of us, who are truly loyal to the cause backed up by several knights might be able to assault the Jihad army and yet make enough progress so our men don't mind. It would certainly be a risky endeavour however.

OverKnight
05-03-2007, 11:38
Count Hans,

We have reached our movement limit for the year, I will await the move of the Turkish Jihad and then we can make our decision. Your plan might have merit depending on how they proceed.

My fellow Crusaders,

I have not added any mercenaries or pilgrims to our forces yet, I will wait until we have need of them, Pilgrims always seem available. Though with the emergence of another Jihad army, I regret not recruiting some Turkopoles. Still, I'm sure we will have that oppurtunity again and I wished to save florins for projects in the Reich.

TinCow
05-03-2007, 12:21
My reasons for taking Adana are the same as they have always been. First, it is a useful fall back position for the main Crusade army if by some unforeseen disaster, you are unable to take Jerusalem. Second, it is a major stop on the pilgrimage road from Europe to the Holy Lands. From there, Christian knights can patrol the roads and keep those pious travelers from harm. Third, it is an immensely strategic location that will allow for greater flexibility in future conflicts.

As fortress, it will be easy to control the local population until they can be converted to the Light of Christ. The same cannot be said of cities like Antioch or Jerusalem. Those places, while holy sites in their own right and profitable in trade, will cause us great difficulties. It will be far better to hold fortified settlements from which we can recruit priests and armies to better control the great cities. In the region, there are several fortified places to choose from. Acre is the most obvious target, as it is very close to Jerusalem and could lend its support to the Papal State that is eventually established there. However, if we have only one fortress, we risk being overwhelmed. With but a single settlement, all military production can be brought to a halt by a single enemy siege force. If we concentrate in a single settlement and find ourselves besieged and unable to sally forth, we will essentially be doomed, as no relief will every be able to reach us from the Reich in time. However, if we have more than one settlement, the one that is not besieged can produce reinforcements to aid the other.

So, the remaining fortresses in the area are Adana, Gaza, and Aleppo. Of these, Aleppo is inland and transporting regiments from there to Acre or Jerusalem would be difficult with enemy armies in the way. Gaza is a worthy target, but it cannot be taken until after the Crusade is over, as it would require marching past Jerusalem, something our soldiers would surely not like. Furthermore, Gaza would only allow strikes against the Egyptians, while Adana would allow us the flexibility of attacking the Turks and aiding our Byzantine allies if it were needed.

Regarding my own presence at Jerusalem when it falls, I appreciate your concern, my Duke, but it is not necessary. I fully expect to visit the Holy City after it falls for short trips of prayer. It matters not to me when I see Jerusalem, so long as my eyes see it before they close for the last time. As for the glory of conquest... the truth is that I am getting old. I certainly would have desired this in my youth, but I am past these things now. I simply wish to do what I can to aid Christ on this Earth. I believe I can do more good for Christendom by holding Adana than I can by marching in a parade in Jerusalem.

OverKnight
05-03-2007, 12:33
If that is how you feel Maximillian, I propose that if the Jihad stays within reach, you take a portion of the Crusade and attack it. Afterwards you can march to Adana and take it. What say you?

The rest of the Crusade would proceed to Jerusalem as planned.

TinCow
05-03-2007, 13:39
I will never waver at the prospect of defending Christendom from the Muhammadan hordes. However, it all depends on the actions of our foes. Let us see what the new year brings before committing ourselves.

OverKnight
05-04-2007, 18:54
My fellow Crusaders, we face an interesting situation:

https://img58.imageshack.us/img58/182/twojihadbi1.jpg

It is my opinion that we only have enough men to face one of the Jihad Armies. Considering that the Egyptian force is blocking our path, I believe we should focus on them. It is unfortunate that the Turkish Jihad would escape us, but we can only do so much without facing delay and desertion.

I ask for your opinions on this matter. I also ask who should lead the attack? I would say either Count Mandorf or Kaiser Henry would be excellent choices. Both were the architects of this endeavor and if Maximillian is to leave us to take Adana, I can think of no better way to bid him farewell.

Speaking of Adana, I was thinking of having our spy infiltrate the Castle. Would there be any objections to this idea?

FactionHeir
05-04-2007, 19:00
Indeed a dire situation where we can only hope that we all make it to the target in one piece. *scratching his chin, Hans continues*
Have we any information on the composition of the egyptian army at all? Maybe our spy should focus on this first before infiltrating Adana.

As for Adana, I would say that we can think about using our spy there after the path is cleared. In the meantime, it would be prudent to have him scout ahead to see whether there are further armies looming to the south we need to be aware of. We should not risk a rude awakening my fellow crusaders.

econ21
05-04-2007, 21:09
Chancellor, we have two strong armies - we can strike at both jihads simultaneously with the odds about 2:1 in our favour in each case. I propose that Maximillan strike at the Turks; I will attack the Egyptians. I agree with Maximillan's earlier comment: we must not waiver from defending Christendom from the Islamic hordes. We are to take Adana anyway, so starting a war now with Turkey matters little and it may be more straightforward to crush her in the field, than allow her to besiege Adana later.

I request that Maximillan's force be bolstered by transferring to his 2nd Crusader army at least one regiment of Dismounted Foot Knights, one regiment of Teutonic Knights and one regiment of Pavisse crossbows from my 1st Crusader Army. If Maximillan requires more men, he can take more - for example, the final regiment of Teutons. With the number of generals in 1st Crusader Army, I do not want for heavy cavalry.

If the two offensives are agreed, consideration might also be given to the hiring of mercenaries - perhaps especially the Armenian archers - but I will leave that to the Chancellor's discretion.

TinCow
05-04-2007, 22:52
I will gladly lead any army into battle against the Unholy Horde. I welcome whatever resources can be provided to aid in such an endeavor.

OverKnight
05-05-2007, 05:27
Otto turns to Hans.

The Egyptian Jihad is 20 units I believe, it is similar in configuration to the last one we faced. The Turkish Jihad is smaller, but still quite large. If you wish more information, feel free to peruse our scouting reports (save). I shall consider the best use of the spy, my hope was that by infiltrating Adana, Maximillian could seize the castle this year.

Otto looks to Henry and Maximillian. His mouth quirks up in a wry grin.

So be it, it seems serving as Chancellor has made me more conservative in my opinions. When in God's name did I become the voice of caution and reason?

Otto ruefully shakes his head.

My concern is that if we face both Jihads divided, we would not have enough men left to take and hold Jerusalem, or pursue our post Crusade strategy. Yes, we would most likely have a ready supply of mercenaries, but they, unless moved by faith, are expensive. I would also remind everyone that the maintenance of the Crusaders is covered by the donations of the faithful, once the Crusade is over, the support of the men will fall back to the Reich. As Chancellor I have to worry about these details. Our resources, as I have become very much aware of, are finite. The new walls for Rome alone will cost 9,600 florins, Milan will soon require the same, and I have been neglecting upgrades to our castles, including Innsbruck, for too long. I am a Crusader, but I must also ensure the Reich stays strong.

Otto rubs the scar on his face and sighs.

Still, once I have the latest reports (OOC: I'm back at my home computer), I will see what can be done and I will report back. It seems I must “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”.

You shall have your battles, and may God bless you with victory over the infidel.

FactionHeir
05-05-2007, 11:32
Small OOC note: AI armies are also limited to 20 units. The display only covers 9 a row instead of 10.

TinCow
05-05-2007, 14:51
I am but a servant of God. Though I have a good deal of experience in military affairs, I am not above error, nor am I so confident in my abilities that I will not heed the words of others. I will follow the majority in this affair, whatever that turns out to be. If it is deemed that we should assault the infidels, I will gladly lead the charge. If we do not have the strength to take on both Jihads at once, I shall respect the limitations the Lord has imposed on us and work towards achieving the best we can with what is available to us. Hans and Duke von Saxony, what are your opinions?

FactionHeir
05-05-2007, 17:00
Well, while I respect the chancellor's and my father's decision to split our forces to attack both jihads, I also fear that if even one of these attacks is not fully successful, we may all be doomed in these lands without a way back. What I wonder is if we can defeat these foes without both depleting the Imperial treasury and lose most of our forces while doing so.
While it is a glorious endeavor to fight the heathen armies, would you not think that our allies could at least defeat one of these? The orthodox church while misguided does have military prowess I believe.
As most of you have had ample experience in battle however, I will for now not cast a vote yay or nay but listen to what arguments there are to engage both.

econ21
05-05-2007, 18:08
Hans, I confess, I fear for our Byzantine allies. You will recall, their assistance to Duke Dietrich in his battle was pitiful. Already a large Hungarian army stands outside Constantinople, which remains weakly garrisoned. The once great Byzantines are now the sick man of Europe. We represent the true heirs of Rome, but we must help our older brother where we can. And do not forget, we are embarked on a religious war, we cannot look the other way while our sworn enemies march past en masse to attack fellow Christians.

God may strike me down for this arrogance, but I have no fear that either of our battles will be lost. Such is the superiority of our men over the enemy that the odds will be 2:1 in our favour. My trust in Maximilan's ability to prevail at such odds is absolute. For my part, I confess I am eager to have a chance to lead in a field battle. Here to, my only experience has been in minor sieges. An Emperor must prove himself in battle to be respected and what better challenge than against a full Muhammedan army? While I may fail, I will fight with Dietrich, Otto, Jonas and you at my side. It seems inconceivable that we will all be undone.

Let us not debate this any more but march on to victory!

Kagemusha
05-05-2007, 18:54
Dietrich Von Saxony

"I mean no disrespect towards Kaiser Henry,but i wouldnt call the actions of Bysantines in battle of Nicae pitifull at all. They fought the main parts of Jihad as well as they could,with their few troops and it was my decision not to rush in to help them that caused them to have to rout out of the field of battle.I made the decision to spare our troops and dont regret it.But it was clearly my decision to abandon our allies in order to move coherently in superior position on battlefield that was payed by Bysantine blood.

I would beg for you all to consider that we should keep our target Jerusalem clear in our minds and not divert our efforts too much before reaching that. I have fullfilled my own duty and i am honoured that i could give a huge blow to the heathens,but now when we are officially crusaders,we should not divert our forces to secondary targets,or we will face desertion. I say that we should mercilesly destry the armies that are in our path,but taking of more targets,should be left for the time after we have reached our destination. Personally im happy that we are getting so near our target and would love to live and see us sieging the holy city."

OverKnight
05-05-2007, 19:58
Otto has listened intently to the opinions of all the Crusaders, he pages through a few reports and then speaks:

The Kaiser and Count Mandorf support an attack on both Jihad armies. Duke von Saxony and Count Hans have their reservations, as have I. Still, the Turkish Jihad is well within reach, and Count Mandorf can assault it, coming from the west, and still reach Adana, a goal that has already been endorsed by this Council. The Egyptian Jihad is directly in our path and must be assaulted if we are to continue.

As I have the deciding vote, I say we attack them both.

It seems the Turkish Jihad army is 20 units as well. (OOC: Typically I use a base-9 counting system, but I guess for ease of communication I'll use base 10) It seems they share a failing with the Milanese, as there are many siege engines in the army, and it is not well balanced. I will recruit two units of Armenian Archers for the 2nd Army and some pilgrims to help fill in the line. I do not believe Maximillian will need any extra infantry from the 1st army, but I will transfer a majority of our non-retainer cavalry to him. I suggest Count von Mahren travel with Maximillian, and after the battles he can bring back any cavalry the 2nd Army no longer needs. Once the Turkish Jihad is dispersed Adana will be assaulted. I will infiltrate the spy to attempt to open the gates. If this is not successful, I must move him on this year, as he will be needed to the south.

As for the 1st Army, I'll will add some pilgrims to it and that is all, there will most likely be better units of the faithful available in the Levant and Palestine. The Egyptians will be a tougher nut to crack, but I am sure God will work through you Kaiser.

Is this acceptable?

econ21
05-05-2007, 20:10
Chancellor, I applaud your decision. Your planned implementation is also admirable.

Kagemusha
05-05-2007, 20:38
I hope this is not an mistake.All battles will weaken us and i think we are too eager to clash right now.

TinCow
05-05-2007, 20:41
If we are to join battle against the Muhammadan hordes, then I must spend the rest of the day in prayer. Remember my brothers, we exercise God's will on Earth. It is only through communion with Him that we will prevail. Strength of arms matters for nothing if you are not in the Light of the Lord.

*Mandorf crosses himself and leaves.*

FactionHeir
05-05-2007, 20:48
I suppose to battle it is then. *Hans nods and turns to leave for the armoury*

OverKnight
05-05-2007, 21:16
Otto looks up at the departing Crusaders and then down at his ink stained hands.

It will be good to be in a proper fight. It has been far too long since I have been in battle. Too much time writing letters and wrangling Electors will dull me if I don't draw my blade against the heathens.

Some wine mein Kaiser and Duke von Saxony? I'd like to make a toast for victory against the infidel.

OOC: As soon as I get the save back I will make the arrangements. What's your status Kagemusha?

Kagemusha
05-06-2007, 03:49
OOC:I have been waiting for Dutch guy to to arrive so i dont have to fight his battle.I cant play that battle inside 6 hours or so,i just came back from restaurant,so lets make it 12 hoiurs.:embarassed:

OverKnight
05-06-2007, 06:45
My lords, our battles await.

I have personally taken cavalry reinforcements to Count Mandorf and will join him in his battle against the Turkish Jihad.

The rest of the Crusaders are with Kaiser Henry as they face the Egyptian Jihad.

May God guide our swords this day.

OOC: Econ21 and TinCow, you're both up. Here's the save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1188-3.zip

Both armies are ready to attack but have not engaged. Whoever gets to the save first, let the other know and send him a link to the new uploaded save once you're finished. You're both old hands at this, so have fun. :2thumbsup:

econ21
05-06-2007, 10:49
A messenger approaches Chancellor Otto and Duke Maximillan:

My Lords, the Kaiser has prevailed over the Egyptian crusade and wishes you good hunting:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1188-4.zip

[OOC: Battle report later today]

OverKnight
05-06-2007, 16:58
Excellent, we are triumphant! Kaiser Henry, Count Mandorf, I am humbled by your skill in battle.

The way to Jerusalem is open. The question is what route should we take?

My cartographer is drunk again, but I propose following the river between Antioch and Aleppo without crossing it. We can then proceed south on the eastern bank and follow it into the mountain pass north of Jerusalem. From there it's a straight march south to our goal. The spy and priests will follow the coastal road, they can skirt around cities and armies unlike our soldiers, and will join us at Jerusalem. Our agent can also provide information on Acre, and we can make a decision on it once we emerge from the hills.

Your opinions?

FactionHeir
05-06-2007, 18:06
A good battle fellow crusaders. I would not have expected us to emerge victorious after splitting ways to assault two heathen armies, but here we all stand, victorious and alive. It truly must be god's will to have sent us here.

As such, we ought to press on and I very much agree with the chancellor's plan, as this way we will not be caught between Antioch and the pass south. My offer to take Acre still stands and I believe I can make it, with few men.

econ21
05-06-2007, 18:27
Like Hans, I see the wisdom in the Chancellor's plans. I assume that 2nd Crusader Army is to remain at Adana under Maximillan's leadership?

Our victory cost us many good men. While we still have sufficient heavy cavalry, thanks to the many generals in 1st Crusader army, our heavy infantry is becoming thin on the ground. When we break into the Levant, I suggest we should hire any mercenary unhorsed knights we are lucky enough to encounter. We may need to bear that in mind when considering how many cavalry to bring back to 1st Crusader Army with Duke Otto. We do not want to be in a situation where our horses are eating all our supplies.

There is something to be said for leaving Maximillan with a strong 2nd Crusader Army, as Adana is effectively the gateway to Christendom and we may see further jihads attempting to pass by it.

OverKnight
05-06-2007, 18:57
Mein Kaiser, I have already recruited two companies of unhorsed Knights. They are stout men and should serve to replace the losses to our infantry. Once I return the extra cavalry to the Crusade, there will be 20 units in the army headed to Jerusalem. If we take more losses before we reach the city, I will combine some units and replenish our army from the faithful that have begun to flock to the Holy Land. It might appear we are currently cavalry heavy, but if we have to divide the Crusade again, it is much easier to recruit infantry. Each division of the Crusade should have a strong contingent of horsemen.

Maximillian, as he requested, will remain behind in Adana to prepare a bastion of Christianity in otherwise heathen lands. I have left him with a strong, but battered force, that should serve well as a rear guard. Once the fortress is capable of recruiting men, I will begin to bring his units up to strength. We have driven a wedge between the Turks and Egyptians, and Count Mandorf has the men to confront any forces that might enter the area. I salute Maximillian's sacrifice to stay behind, and I hope he has many more victories against the infidels.

Acre remains a target, no doubt. We shall see what our agents find there.

Kagemusha
05-07-2007, 12:39
Dietrich Von Saxony

I would like to gongratulate both Kaiser Henry and Von Mandorf for their resounding victories over the heathens. Im still bit worried how fast will Mandorfs force start melting in Adana. I hope the rest of us will see the walls of Jerusalem soon.

econ21
05-07-2007, 13:30
I have been thinking about the best use of our priests. Setting them to convert the population of Antioch may be sensible. Provinces with castles are typically quiescent enough regardless of religious unrest. However, it is a great challenge to subdue a city whose people are of a different religion. Antioch may be the most appropriate city to take first, as it is an important trading centre.

If we were to hold Jerusalem for ourselves, I would naturally wish the priests to accompany us. However, we will donate it immediately to the Papacy, so the presence of the priests may not be required.

FactionHeir
05-07-2007, 13:46
Taking Antioch will divert us from our course though and possibly lead to unrest among our religiously devout men who may decide to continue on on their own.

Also, I am not sure whether the pope will appreciate us gifting him Jerusalem when it is still filled with heathens and heretics. We, as the defenders of Christendom are responsible for the pope's safety if we grant him a new stronghold and thus we ought to show some effort in converting the populace to the true faith before passing it on to His Holiness.

OOC: Maybe just convert some 30% to Christianity and build a church/abbey. Not much more as we'd otherwise be wasting our florins. Having the religious buildings there also enables us to train decent priests in that city.

FactionHeir
05-07-2007, 16:33
That is terrible news Duke of Kassel. One of our greatest generals, Dietrich of Saxony, dying in his sleep just shortly before we are to arrive at Jerusalem...
*Observes a moment of silence*
I suggest that we honor this man's wish to see the holy city by carrying him through the gates and burying him where he can overlook and guard the holy city.

OverKnight
05-07-2007, 19:06
Count Hans, I too mourn for Dietrich, he was a great man. We shall see what his will says about the disposition of his mortal remains.

Our spy has told me that the Jihad forces that retreated to Antioch have abandoned their quest. An Egyptian force has moved north to block our route, but I'm sure once we choose to give battle, they will retreat. Their force is mostly siege equipment, and they now know to face us is to die.

https://img254.imageshack.us/img254/5708/crusadealleporz2.jpg

I am tempted to take Aleppo, it is lightly defended, but the chance for delay might be too great.

If I understand the Kaiser correctly, he wishes to have the priests begin preaching near Antioch in preperation of us swinging north to take the city once the Crusade is complete. This is an interesting notion. Still, Count Hans's concern about in what state we should hand Jerusalem over to the Pope, is also valid. I will think on this.

OverKnight
05-07-2007, 21:27
The Crusade has successfully driven off that Egyptian army and is now north of Acre. Count Hans and Count von Mahren with half our forces have barely reached the walls of the fortress, the siege will begin next year, and I will see if I can infiltrate our agent.

The remaining forces are with the Kaiser and myself hiding in a small wood to the northeast. We are a year away from our goal.

Both armies have been supplemented with Crusader Sergeants, also some religious fanatics have joined the Kaiser's army. Each army also has only two missile units, a pity, but for a siege assault, they're not critical.

I must know ask a needful but possibly distasteful question. When we take Jerusalem, what do we do with the population? Should we occupy, sack or exterminate? It would be unwise to gift a rioting city to the Papacy. Also, with the diplomat ready to meet with his Holiness next year, when should we hand the city over?

TinCow
05-07-2007, 21:37
The city must be handed over immediately. The longer we hold the place, the less honorable our intentions will seem. We took up the Cross in the name of the Pope and we must honor that commitment. If the Pope cannot maintain his own lands, we will lend him aid from our own holdings. If the Egyptians attack the city after it is in his possession, we must repel them. If the city revolts against his rule, we must recapture it and return it to the Papacy. We are the guardians of Jerusalem, but we are not its owners. Let us remember that.

(OOC: It would be a good idea to try and get an alliance from the Pope, perhaps in conjunction with the gift of Jerusalem, perhaps afterwards. Either way, it would be very useful to be allied with the Papal States if we have to relieve a siege of the city later or otherwise help the Papal armies.)

Kagemusha
05-07-2007, 21:37
Count Von Mahren joins the conversation.With a silent voice he speaks staring at the ground.

"There is only one way to deal with heathens in Jerusalem and that is to put them into sword.All of them. The Holy city has for far too long be polluted of these Moors and their false God. We should clean the city from them completely. About when to take it.As soon as possible.I dont understand why are we attacking random cities around Jerusalem,when we should be marching straight into it."

OverKnight
05-07-2007, 21:46
I have thought of asking Pope Pisanus for an alliance when we gave him Jerusalem. I will do so. Unfortunately, we cannot ask for military access until they actually have territory, but I will keep it in mind.

FactionHeir
05-07-2007, 21:49
My fellow crusaders.
We came here to the holy land to take back for god's children what is rightfully theirs. We came here to fight the unholy hordes of the heathen idol.
But did we really come here to butcher every man, woman and child we can find?
We have already butchered all the heathen soldiers we have fought, as they have raised their weapons against us, but is everyone here a sinner and beyond redemption?
Would we not further god's glory by showing these heathens the true faith and bring them into the light?
Not everyone living in these lands is a heathen either. As you are all aware, some Christians still inhabit the cities and would we want their blood upon our hands, upon our souls?

It would be harsh to put the populace to the sword, yet it would be unwise to merely occupy the cities and have resistance develop against our noble rule. The only thinkable compromise would be to show these people what would happen if they did not obey our rule and seize all the false symbols of their god and pagan faith and melt them down.

OOC: TC, while allying with the pope would be great from a game point of view, I would recommend against it. Reason being the way the scripts in 1.02 handle alliances and trusted allies. If we become a trusted ally of the pope (i.e. global rep of reliable and fairly high relations) anyone who is at war with us or we declare war on instantly becomes excommunicated. While this may be "right" if you look at us being the "Holy Roman Empire" who own the papacy, it would make the game much too easy.

On another note, could I ask what composition of troops you have kindly assigned me, chancellor, and information on the defenders of Acre?

OverKnight
05-07-2007, 22:05
Your forces are: Bodyguard x2, Mailed Knights, dismounted Feudal Knight, unhorsed Knight, Armoured Spearmen x2, Crusader Sergeants x2, Pavise XBowmen, and Xbow Militia.

The forces in Acre are a Egyptian noble, Mamluk Horsemen and some form of mounted Archer. There's an Egyptian army to the south which has spears, artillery and some horse.

Jerusalem is being defended by an Egyptian noble and his retainers. It seems in destroying their Jihads, we have seriously set them back.

If you want more information, the latest scouting report (save) has been delivered.

Kagemusha
05-07-2007, 22:12
Jonas Von Mahren continues after hearing the words of the others,still staring at the ground.

"I will ask you Chancellor Von Kassel,when do you think we will reach Jerusalem? I am asking becouse once we have taken it,i want home.I dont know what you others are planning,but im sick and tired of this heathen land and its inhabitants. I joined this crusade on my now dead Duke´s wishes and have been miserable ever since.I want this crusade to end and then get back home to Germany and Franconia as soon as possible. When will this be possible?

FactionHeir
05-07-2007, 22:32
*Hans looking through the scouting reports makes a few notes before speaking*
It seems like our Egyptian foes have greatly neglected defending their homelands. I believe I may be able to even pull off a tactical maneuver and lure the defenders outside Acre to fight on our terms instead of spending lives scaling the walls of Acre. Please keep me informed of the enemy's movements so I may plan the assault my chancellor.

OOC: Next turn, instead of giving me the save during the attack sequence, please upload it before taking action, so I can choose the angle of attack ~:)
Actually I might even split a few more units from the army you assigned me to get a heroic victory hehe. We shall see.

OverKnight
05-08-2007, 02:16
Otto glances up at Jonas and chuckles:

Did you get a blow to the head in the last battle Count von Mahren? My name is von Kassel, von Kastilien is your Stew. . .Duke. Similar, but hardly identical.

Otto's expression becomes more serious.

There are ships inbound with Sir Hummel, and more will be on the way from Venice in the new year. Still, these are to serve as the Outremer fleet. I suppose I could spare a ship or two to return you home, but we will need all the men we can get for our new territories. Particularly young men like yourself. A new generation of Crusaders will be needed, I ask that you stay and help build the dream of a Christian and Imperial Holy Land.

Otto turns to Hans:

Let us see what the new year brings us, more troops might come north from Egypt proper or south from Antioch. I will make plans then.

econ21
05-08-2007, 12:53
Jonas, I would not like you to serve for long here while your heart is back in the forests of Franconia. As the Chancellor said, we expect Ulrich to arrive her by sea in due course. I would have no objection to you joining that fleet on its return journey.

One issue I would like to raise with the Council is how quickly we return Jerusalem to the Papacy. I wonder if there is some merit in Hans' suggestion that we get the place in order first - establish some churches and other buildings to maintain order, and convert a proportion of the population to Christianity. We have waited a long time to achieve our goal and could wait a little longer to see it is properly achieved. It would be a shame to see it come to nought if the Papacy rejects the gift of a rebellious city.

OverKnight
05-08-2007, 13:19
Another aspect of the governance of Jerusalem, is that if the Reich governs, there will be an inefficiency to our rule due to the distance from Rome. The new Papal States, since Jerusalem would be their only possession, would not have such a penalty.

Once we take the city, we could lay the foundation for a chapel, the Papacy would no doubt continue it since we bore the cost. Or we could hold the city for two years, and set the foundations for a church after building the chapel.

Perhaps we should gift some florins to the Papacy after we hand over Jerusalem, or wait a few years so we can exchange florins for military access. They are impoverished and could use the money to build or recruit troops.

TinCow
05-08-2007, 13:38
The Chancellor makes an excellent point. There will be great civil unrest in Jerusalem when it is made an ancillary province of the Reich. Being declared the Pope's capital and official home would drastically reduce this unrest. Even without a large army to garrison the place, I suspect that the Papal States would have more success in governing the unruly mob than we would.

Kagemusha
05-08-2007, 13:53
Count Von Mahren

Chancellor Kassel.Im sorry about mixing you with Duke Von Kastillien. I also thank the Kaiser for understanding my wishes. As you have noticed,my input during this crusade has been minimal. I think this holy task is righteous,but plans concerning conquering these Heathen lands dont sound right to me.
We went to this crusade to Conquer back the holy grave and give it to Pope.Now all i hear is that one lord suggesting taking one city and another some other city. I dont think this is an righteous cause. We came here to wash away our sins,not to build new Duchies in far away lands. Germany is where my home is and as German i belong there. I want to participate on this crusade untill the Holy city is taken,but after that if possible i will sail with an first available ship to reich,where i belong. And where we should be fighting to enlarge our Empire. About Jerusalem,i think the best and most simple way is to exterminate the heathens and then give the city straight to Pope.

OverKnight
05-08-2007, 13:57
The first ship it is then, Count von Mahren.

OverKnight
05-09-2007, 21:21
Otto looks up from the latest reports:

With the permission of the Council, I would like to lead our forces against Captain Youseff. It has been a long time since I have lead men in battle.

Once he has been defeated, I plan to have Count Hans and the 3rd Crusader Army besiege Acre, while the 1st Crusader Army besieges Jerusalem. Our spy is within reach of Acre, but not of the Holy City, and I will see if he can open the gates of the castle.

Kagemusha
05-09-2007, 21:33
Count Von Mahren

I have no problems with Chancellor Kassel leading the battle against the heathens.How are the noble men divided between the armies currently? If possible i would like to join to the army that is heading for Jerusalem. I came here to help take that city and i have nothing what so ever intrest about Acre or the other heathen cities that are so numerous on these parts of the world.

FactionHeir
05-09-2007, 21:38
I would like to have a look at the map before approving or disapproving such a decision. If this heathen rabble under Youssef is within reach of Acre's walls, then I might wish to contend for command of the attack.

OverKnight
05-09-2007, 21:40
Our latest scouting report:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1192.zip

It is only fitting that a Franconia be present at the siege of Jerusalem to honor the memory of Duke von Saxony, you will be part of it Count von Mahren.

FactionHeir
05-09-2007, 21:52
*Hans takes a long look at the map and the reports from the spy inside Acre*

It seems the gates will be open when we strike, yet Youssef and his horde are camping just outside the gates and will either reinforce the fortress if we lay siege or have reinforcements coming to his aid if we attack him. Either way, after this battle, it is likely that there will be so few defenders left to defend Acre that we can take it without any resistance.
As such, the decision as to who shall command the attack is up to the council I suppose, as both the chancellor and I have raised the wish to command said attack.

And Count of Mahren, I cannot hold you if you wish to depart for Jerusalem immediately, but we shall be there in time for the assault even if you stayed. The choice is yours.

Kagemusha
05-09-2007, 21:55
Count Von Mahren

Thank you mein Chancellor. If you wish to lead the force near Acre i will support you as a sign of my gratitude for allowing me to join the force i want to be with. As i sayed earlier,i have no desire to attack any other city on these part then the Holy city of Jerusalem to free it from the yoke of the heathens.

OverKnight
05-09-2007, 22:15
I will give the other Crusaders an hour to give their say, after that I must proceed with our attacks due to time constraints.

TinCow
05-09-2007, 22:24
I believe it would be best if Chancellor von Kassel led the attack. He has exerted a great deal of effort to bring about the official Papal sanction on our Crusade. As the Kaiser will surely be the one to lead the final assault on Jerusalem, it is only fitting that the Chancellor be rewarded for his services by being given the honor of assaulting the Saracen fortress of Acre. I know this may be a disappointment to you, Hans, but remember that unlike Duke von Kassel, you are still a young man and have many years left to prove your worth on the battlefield. Indeed, the Holy Lands will likely need much generalship in the upcoming years. There will be ample opportunities for you to prove your worth on the battlefield.

FactionHeir
05-09-2007, 22:35
Well, since it seems the council seems set on having Duke Otto command the battle with only my father not yet having cast his vote, I will concede to the chancellor's wish.
However I ask that I may at least be the one to march through the gates of Acre or battle with what few remnants remain after the Duke has finished with Youssef, seeing how the chancellor has only laid claim on attacking Youssef but not Acre and I have first laid claim on assaulting Acre.

OverKnight
05-09-2007, 23:56
Indeed Count Hans, Acre lies ready for your assault. I had you lay siege before I attacked the relief force, they are utterly destroyed, but you will be facing the full garrison. A good chance to win your spurs. The army I commanded lies ready to assist if needed, but I'm sure you will not need it.
Godspeed.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1192-1.zip

OOC: I wanted to give every player who came on the Crusade a legit battle before it ends. Tactically I could have played this better, but this makes for a funner game for everyone.

FactionHeir
05-10-2007, 00:43
*Hans enters the command tent, bloodied armour and sword, a few bandages still visible, poorly hidden under Imperial cloth*

My friends, I present you...Acre. It is ours now and I have taken the liberty to take gold and religious paraphernalia from the commoners and contributed it to the Imperial trasury. A bloody battle indeed, with many men dying on both sides. Before the assault started, I had the Duke standby with his army outside the walls so as not to scare the heathens too much.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1192-2.rar

OverKnight
05-10-2007, 09:18
Otto, sporting a few bandages himself, speaks to Hans.

Welcome back General, congratulations on your success. Acre is indeed a valuable prize for the Reich. It was very satisfying to get back out in the field. To hold a sword rather than pen, it is a glorious thing.

Otto turns to Henry.

Now that we have besieged Jerusalem, mein Kaiser, I have ordered the construction of two rams and four ladders for the assault. Considering the garrison, a Saracen noble and his retainers, I thought towers were not worth the resources used in their construction. As you will lead the attack, do you have another configuration in mind?

econ21
05-10-2007, 10:42
Congratulations to my fellow Crusading generals on their recent victories. It is a sadness that Dietrich did not live to see this moment. Chancellor, your preparations sound most excellent, as ever.

Stuperman
05-10-2007, 15:51
A messenger with several Imperial gaurds is lead to the administration tent at the Crusader Camp just outside of Jerusalem. With a slight french accent he presents a message from Gerhard Steffen to the Crusading armies



A message from Gerhard Steffen

Noble Crusaders

You have brought much glory to the riech with the series of victories that you have won in the east. The reports that are reaching Mersaille talk of tens of thousands of dead Egyptians(SP) and rivers of blood flowing where ever German forces are found. Although I doubt you'll need it I wish you luck in the upcomming siege of Jerusalem, May you repeat the victory of the last Romans to assault the holy city 1100 years ago. All has been quite on the western front for some time now although something must be done about the Polish, I digress.

To Victory and Glory for the Riech

Servent of the Riech
Gerhard Steffen


(OOC: Gerhrad is still in Mersaille, right?)

OverKnight
05-11-2007, 16:10
Kaiser Henry and my fellow Crusaders, it is with great joy that I announce that we are ready to reclaim Jerusalem in the name of God. An Egyptian relief force is off the southern wall of the city, but it is only a mid-sized army of trebuchets and spearmen.

Mein Kaiser, we await your command to begin the assault. May God be with us this day!

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1194.zip

OOC: econ21, if you wouldn't mind taking screen shots of the Crusade completion pop ups after the battle, I'd appreciate it. Once I get the save back, I won't have access to them, unless I replay the battle, and the results might still be different. Good luck :2thumbsup: .

econ21
05-11-2007, 19:51
Chancellor, fellow crusaders, it gives me great pleasure to announce that Jerusalem has been returned to the Christendom!

A full account of the battle will be given shortly, but suffice it to say that Chancellor Otto routed the Egyptian relief army using the same exemplary tactics he showed at Acre. Both Hans and Jonas distinguished themselves by their daring and courage.

After the battle, in a gesture of magnamity to our opponents, I released the enemy prisoners. Under strict military discipline, our men occupied the city and no innocent blood was spilt.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1194-1.zip

OOC: OK, I have lots of screenshots: I'll put them in my battle report and you can copy the links for your own use.

OverKnight
05-11-2007, 19:59
Excellent! Should I offer the city to the Pope, or should we enforce order, and buld a church, before doing so? Should I move the priests south from Antioch?

Also the remnants of the relief army lie outside the city, would you like to attack them mein Kaiser? (Keep the save and fight that battle) I could do it myself if you wish to see to your report.

Praise be to God!

econ21
05-11-2007, 20:15
Chancellor, as I have briefed your advisors privately, I now incline to the view that we should return Jerusalem to the Papacy immediately. This will free our army from garrison duty. It will also free you to act as you see fit. The formal decision-making role of this Council will be at an end, although we may wish to retain it as a consultative body.

I am not inclined to pursue the remnants of the relief army - it scarcely seems worth it. But if you believe it is the correct course of action, I am happy for you to take tactical command of 1st Crusader Army to see to it.

Good luck in your negotiations with the Papacy, Chancellor. An alliance and military access rights would be extremely useful if we are to be able to fulfill our duty as protectors of Jerusalem.

OverKnight
05-11-2007, 20:25
Unfortunately, the Papacy cannot give us military access until they actually have a territory, I will have to seek it next year with the same diplomat on Corsica. An alliance, however, will be sought. Next year we can offer them money for military access.

I will run off the relief force before handing over the city, I would not want the new owners to be besieged. I hope to bring the first Crusade army to Acre to rest and refit.

Kagemusha
05-12-2007, 10:32
Count Von Mahren

My whole hearted congratulatoins to Kaiser Henry for successfully leading us into our target. The future generations will now remember you as the saviour of Jerusalem. Altough i dont agree on our policy of letting the dirty heathens live. When we give Holy city to Holy father,our decision not to put heathens into sword will result in civil disorder in the city.
Gentlemen.I think our work here is done. I hope to sail soon to home.Will anyone join me or are you going to stay here to protect your conquest´s?

FactionHeir
05-12-2007, 12:07
There is still much to do in these lands...we must cleanse them of the heathens and bring them into the light. By the sword if necessary!

TinCow
05-12-2007, 13:59
I am glad that there is at least one person here in the Levant who understand what must be done.

econ21
05-14-2007, 14:57
The Kaiser glares at Maximillan, then turns to address the entire Council.

My Lords, now that the crusade is over, the formal decision-making role of this Council is at an end. I would, however, like to use this forum for two new roles:

(1) As a consultative body to discuss matters concerning Outremer.

(2) As an administrative body to post build queues for provinces in Outremer.

As before, only generals in Outremer will be able to address the Council in person, but we will welcome letters from nobles back in the homeland with any thoughts they have on Outremer.

On the first role, I would welcome any suggestions on strategy for defeating the various Egyptian armies moving against us. I will listen to what is said and Friday begin to execute a plan informed by your ideas. Please bear in mind that, as soon as is feasible, I plan to send Hans and an army from Outremer by sea to return Constantinople to our brother Romans, the Byzantines.

On the second role, I would be grateful if Maximillan would post a build queue for Adana and Hans post a build queue for Acre. I am informally assigning these settlements to them and their houses, although formally, they will remain Imperial settlements until the next Diet. This Council (OOC: thread) can be used for the posting of these build queues, to make it easy for crusaders to know the planned state of Outremer.

FactionHeir
05-14-2007, 15:11
*Hans bows and speaks*

I thank you for your trust in my abilities and will complete the mission you set with utmost devotion. I shall also start surveying Acre to determine what is needed to bolster its forces against heathen hordes.

OverKnight
05-14-2007, 15:17
Mein Kaiser, I am not sure if you have had an opportunity to consult the maps yet, but the situation around Antioch is perilous. There are four large and one midsized Egyptian armies on the march, plus the small garrisons of Antioch and Aleppo.

I have no doubt we will eventually be victorious, but it will take several years, perhaps a decade, to resolve this situation. After which, our forces will be reduced, and I'm not sure if we will have an adequate amount of men to spare for a proper assault force for Constantinople as well as to defend Jerusalem and Outremer. Our recruiting centers in Outremer do not match the capacities of those in the Reich.

Perhaps the assault force could be launched from Ragusa? The Adriatic fleet has five flotillas of Holks and can be increased. Ragusa is close to Zagreb and somewhat near to Innsbruck. These castles could recruit more men than Acre or Adana.

Perhaps we could split the difference and have men and fleets from Ragusa and Outremer meet in the Aegean and proceed in a combined operation?

Edit: The situation in the Levant:

https://img515.imageshack.us/img515/4134/ohmyli5.jpg

econ21
05-14-2007, 20:18
Thank you for the map, Duke Otto. We face an immediate crisis in dealing with the multiple Egyptian armies moving against us - as I say, I will welcome any suggestions for cunning strategy from my generals on the ground. However, I am confident we will prevail.

In the more medium term, I wish to equip Duke Otto with a field army based at Acre that is capable of defending Jerusalem (and Outremer) from incursions from the Egyptians coming from the West[1]. I wonder, Duke Otto, what would be the minimum and the ideal composition of such a force (we might take the size of a Household Army as a benchmark)?

I would also like to ask Count Maximillan what is the minimum garrison (not field army) he believes could defend Adana? As the large Egyptian army that was to the north east has apparently been deterred by his fullsome garrison, I intend to draw some units from it for the expedition to Constantinople. I would also ask Count Ulrich the same question, as he may be called upon to take over the defence of Adana such Maximillan be called to join our Lord.

I realise that minimum army sizes depend on the strength of the enemy forces ranged against us, and so may vary over time, but I am inquiring about standing armies. I intend to lead an Imperial field army against Aleppo and Antioch but need to know that Adana, Acre and Jerusalem will not fall while my back is turned.

[1] OOC note:

I intend to leave the Egyptians with Gaza, so that there is a viable potential Islamic threat to Jerusalem. This is purely to make defending Outremer fun, it is not an in character decision.

OverKnight
05-15-2007, 01:43
The House Army model would serve well for the medium term. I can hold Acre with the depleted units I have at the moment, but I'm a bit light on cavalry and infantry to take effective offensive action. If this can be resolved, I will gladly take the field. As I see it, our armies in Outremer will be constantly trading units back and forth depending on which direction the latest threat is coming from.

It seems our main challenge at the moment lies in the Levant. Please take the Pavise Crossbowmen I had recruited at the castle north to join you if you wish. You will need their longe range bolts against the Mamluk horse archers.

If this means the Egyptians east of Acre try to strike at the castle, so be it. I'd like to see the infidels try to take the walls.

As for cunning strategies. . .We should use the bridge and ford, north and southeast of Antioch to our advantage. The Egyptians field a total force larger than our own, but the river divides them, if we seize bottlenecks and restrict their strategic movement they will be forced to fight us on ground we have chosen.

I would say that Maximillian should take a majority of his force and take the bridge north of Antioch. The forces under the Kaiser and Sir Hummel should run off any small armies facing them and take the ford. Let the Egyptians throw themselves on our swords. Once we have bled them in the field, we can move on Antioch.

Edit: Also, at the end of my term, I had an extensive network of watchtowers established on the borders of Acre. Any Saracen moves from Gaza, Damascus or from the desert will be well monitored. While we are at war with the Egyptians, the Papal States are not. This might not last, but we should consider the implications when we deploy our forces.

econ21
05-15-2007, 08:53
Thank you, Duke Otto - your contribution is helpful and insightful as always. Unfortunately, the strongest Egyptian army holds the bridge north of Antioch. If it were not so positioned, I would consider sending Maximillan and the Adana garrison to attack it. But I am not convinced Maximillan could take the bridge off them or at least do so with many men remaining.

I am interested to hear if Maximillan and Ulrich have any thoughts on our immediate predicament (and the longer term issue of the size of the Adana garrison).

OverKnight
05-15-2007, 09:47
Ah, the Egyptians holding the north bridge changes the dynamics, I failed to notice that.

It is a dilemma. One way to break the stale mate we find ourselves in is for the Kaiser's army to crush the Egyptians to the southeast, join up with Sir Hummel's forces, disperse the Egyptians facing Ulrich and then besiege Aleppo. We might consider placing our agent in the fortress before the siege.

This would use our local superiority in men to defeat the southern Egyptian forces before they can combine with the larger armies to the north. If the northern Egyptian armies move to relieve Aleppo, we can counter with the Adana garrison taking them from behind or assaulting Antioch itself.

While this is going on, I am confident that I can hold Acre while the men there are reinforced and retrained.

TinCow
05-15-2007, 12:15
The Adana garrison is capable of offensive action against the Egyptians, but it would require the use of nearly the entire force, leaving Adana defenseless. At the moment, I think it would be far better for Adana to supply reinforcements for the armies operating to the South, at least until such a time as Adana is capable of fielding a large army while still maintaining the defenses of the fortress.

I believe the fortress can be secured against any and all attacks with the following allocation of forces: 3 regiments of Armenian Archers, 2 regiments of Dismounted Feudal Knights, and 3 regiments of Sergeant Spearmen. This force can be met immediately by hiring 2 regiments of mercenary Armenian Archers.

OverKnight
05-19-2007, 07:34
Otto bows to Henry and nods his head to Ulrich.

A tremendous victory mein Kaiser and Sir. . .uh. . .Count. . .Prinz(?) Hummel! Over 2500 of the enemy dead and Antioch is ours! It is the greatest triumph I've ever seen. It seems you did use local superiority in numbers, just in a shorter time frame than I imagined. To be honest, when I heard of the coming battle, I was deeply concerned, but you came through using an excellent use of terrain while exploiting the Saracen weaknesses in armor and poor deployment. I salute both of you.

It seems that using Pavise Crossbowmen, if we have the advantage of terrain, the riddle of the horse archer can be solved. I am glad Acre can recruit such units.

I hate to sully such a triumph with a practical question, but can we hold down Antioch with the forces available to us? If so, how many men does this leave us for a field army? I would suggest as soon as our fleet of priests arrive, they join in converting our newest conquest to the true faith.

A glorious start to your term, mein Kaiser. May it be the first of many victories in your Chancellorship!

OverKnight
06-01-2007, 22:25
My lords, the Council of Crusaders is now open to all of you who have joined the new Crusade along with the nobles already in Outremer. I also invite the Chancellor to participate.

Feel free to use this area as a place to coordinate movement, consider strategy and to seek answers.

The floor is now open.

Ituralde
06-02-2007, 14:28
Nobles of the Reich!

It is with great joy that I partake in this second Imperial Crusade. I thank Chancellor Hans for putting the same faith in me, as Emperor Henry, giving me the position to lead our host to Outremere.

Of coures I am open to your suggestions concerning our travel route. The way I see it however is that we will board ships close to Thessalonica, where a decently sized Imperial navy should be able to take us aboard. We should bolster it with Mercenary Vessels none the less.

If we then sail straigth towards Antioch, we should be able to reach our destination of Damascus without decreasing our fighting strength. Quite to the contrary I believe we should look out for other pious Christians that are willing to take up the Cross and follow us in our divine duty!

FactionHeir
06-02-2007, 14:33
Fellow crusaders,

My plan is to grant the fleet that currently carries my army to the crusaders the following year and have them sail to Antioch as Duke Leopold suggested. The fleet will be more than strong enough to cope with any hostile threat in the area and thus there will not be a need to hire additional ships, allowing the hiring of additional troops once the crusaders arrive in the Levant.

Ituralde
06-05-2007, 19:24
Fellow Crusaders,

We are close to our goal, but although there's only a short distant to travel, this last step will be the hardest to make. Our intelligence indicates that no less than 3000 Mongol Raiders are in the vicinity of Damascus and they have already laid siege to the city. Reinforcements could arrive from Acre, but they are cut off by another two large Mongol Armies. We will have to wait how my brother, Emperor Henry is able to deal with them.

But right now we can not count on them arriving in time. We have to make our move against the Mongols. I will not stand idly by while these Barbarians seize Damascus from us.
What I propose is a frontal attack. We are outnumbered three to one, so this will not be an easy task. In fact it will be a murderous undertaking with our chances for survival slim. I am old and have little life left in me. I have led you as far as I can, but I'm afraid this is the point where our ways should part.
I can not risk a large portion of our nobility in a futile battle, that only serves to buy us time. I need you to carry on the Crusade against Damascus. If I succeed your task will become all the easier. Should I fail it will be up to you to carry this Crusade to completion.

My plan is to take most of our fighting men with me and bolster my army with willing Crusaders from the viccinity. To you I leave the pilgrims and your personal bodyguards. If necessary bolster your forces with mercenaries or wait for reinforcements. While I ride against the Mongolian threat you will lay siege to Damascus.

What do you think of this plan, gentlemen? I believe it will pay us time without needless sacrifice. It will be a difficult battle and we would be foolish if we didn't plan for defeat. If the Mongols prove too much for us we have to make sure that Crusade goes on, that Damascus will fall into our hands eventually!

FactionHeir
06-05-2007, 19:31
If that is your wish Duke Leopold, I will respect it. However I would still wait and see how our emperor fares against the Mongols near Jerusalem before making hasty decisions.
I should note that there are only few mercenaries available and most on foot nearby and as such the best I could offer you is a few additional knights from Aleppo. All other regiments have already moved on to Acre where King Otto and our emperor are preparing the defenses.

OOC: Also one problem will be the knight limit, so i unfortunately can't give you too much cav. I might have a few mounties sitting around though, need to check. Also, there would be unhorsed knights if it wasn't for the bug that deplenishes merc pools if you retrain/unretrain mercenary units, which I had to do because I at first ended the turn prematurely and had to reload and give the AI its turnly florins and with it reset all training queues to prevent the retraining bug...

flyd
06-05-2007, 21:07
Bah! I have never been afraid of anyone, and am certainly not afraid of these Mongols. They may be numerous, but I do not doubt the ability of one German to kill three of these bastards. Besides, we have God on our side. The Crusade cannot fail, and this is it: the Arabs cannot hold Damascus, the fight for the city is against these Mongols.

But there is still a significant risk involved, so I would not look down (much...) on any of our knights who chose to stay behind. I, however, demand to be in the first assault! A large army can be unwieldy for a single commander without a deputy, and this sort of battle may require extensive tactical maneuvers.

Northnovas
06-05-2007, 23:24
Moved by von Hamburg's speech, the Count speaks after a long silence..

Father, I been silent contemplating matters on this journey and the situation in Zagreb is only making things worse. I only hear dispatches and cannot do anything but pray that it will soon be liberated.
Since we have arrived in the Levant I have heard many things from locals about the riding army from the east. It appears intimidating this new enemy and the numbers they bring. I cannot just sit here and wait. It is time that I earned my spurs and I want to fight alongside of you.
I will accept whatever fate awaits; I did not come here to sit. We can use all the horses we can get against this Horde.
I therefore must be part of the army that is in your plan of attack. We are a Crusading Army and will fight whoever is in God's way.

The member sits feeling a little sheepish for speaking so boldly..

econ21
06-06-2007, 01:13
An exhausted, blood stained Teutonic knight arrives from the Kaiser's Imperial Army:

My lords, forgive my intrusion into this august body. However, the Kaiser wishes me to tell you immediately of the Reich's first encounter with the horse lords, so that it may inform your deliberations. He urges that you consider the implications carefully and do not commit to any specific course of action until it has been carefully discussed and weighed in the balance. He will come shortly to join you in this, but first needs to give prayers and to reflect.

OverKnight
06-06-2007, 01:44
Otto looks at the messenger with great concern. He turns to the new Crusaders.

I have no doubt of your bravery, Duke Leopold, or of the stout men who have volunteered to stand with you. It is a testament to all of you.

But bravery alone will not prevail against the Mongols. The Kaiser's encounter with just one of their armies shows this. We must bring all our might in Outremer against them. If we send our forces piecemeal against them, the Crusade will fail.

I will stand with the Kaiser in the south, if the Mongols wish to come at us an army at a time, let them, it brings them away from you. I have asked the Chancellor to let me attack the remaining Mongol army northeast of Jerusalem in the new year. If he grants me this request and I am succesful, we can bring the combined forces of Outremer and the Crusade together at Damascus, crush the Mongols and take the city.

Otto's features harden, a cold fire burns in his eyes.

If the Mongols take the city before we can, so be it. I hope the Egyptians bleed them before they die.

That might sound callous, but to defeat these Ravagers from the East we must be as hard as them. We must strike with cold calculation and burning anger, no quarter given or asked. We must break them! God wills it!

GeneralHankerchief
06-06-2007, 03:21
Conrad Salier:

Trapping them in a city could be more advantageous for us. From what I hear, these people have very little in the realm of heavy infantry (correct me if I'm wrong, Kaiser), instead focusing on archers and cavalry. A city would neutralize much of their maneuverabiliy.

flyd
06-06-2007, 03:44
What some fail to realize is that Damascus, though still paying taxes to Egypt for now, is largely a Christian city. The missionary work has been outstanding, and the city is now two thirds Christian. That's about ten thousand people. Can these eastern barbarians be trusted not to massacre the population? We have no indication that they actually plan to occupy the city. For all we know, they could loot it, and leave it, leaving us to deal with a similar number of them in the open field. This Crusade is not only for changing the administration of the city, but for liberating those within who have already seen the light.

Northnovas
06-06-2007, 04:06
Studying hard the strategic map and listening to the nobles..

King Otto makes a good point on strength. In fact looking at his proposal of a north and south army we may be able to distract these Mongols.
Damascus is their goal and they are besieging as we speak. However, a north army and a south army maybe enough to divert their forces. Possible too much of a distraction. If the Egyptians fall it may be to our advantage to take the city from the Mongols as Sir Salier mentioned.
I would feel better taking Damascus knowing the current Mongol armies in the area have been destroyed or subdued. I know there is a risk to the Christian population of Damascus under a Mongol control but taking the city may leave us under seige and cut off from reinforcements.
I think we are better to concentrate and coordinate our armies to defeat this Horde. Clear out the Region before taking the city.

Ituralde
06-06-2007, 09:22
Bah! Cowards the lot of you!

Trap them in the city? Let them have it. The young Fredericus von Hamburg is quite right. Christian lives are at the stake here and I will not let them be slaughtered by our hesitation. I have heard the report of my brother Henry concerning his battle against the heathens and I will keep it in mind when I make my advancement.

I never said this would be easy, but nor have I said that we will loose. I have no intention to feed our armies piecemeal to the enemy! Should I fail there won't be enough horselovers left to pose an obstacle to the Emperor's or King's reinforcements.

Our numbers have swollen with volunteers who are willing to give their lives for our cause. They are eager for battle and I will not hold it from them. Stalling now this close to our final objective just because of some Horse Lords would be foolish. I have my men assembled and will attack the Mongols as soon as the opportunity presents itself.

As to you Karl Zirn, I can not take you with me. I need you alive and well as Crusader Count of Austria. You will see battle soon enough.
Fredericus von Hamburg, so your tales of bravery are not exaggerated? I'll gladly take you with me to coordinate the battle.

This is our time, Nobles of the Reich, I will not sit idly by, I will act, decisively!

OverKnight
06-06-2007, 10:11
Otto stares at Leopold, his right index finger tracing the scar on his face as his jaw clenches.

Better to be a coward than a fool my good Duke.

Otto makes a visible effort to control his emotions. After a moment he sighs.

So be it. The Crusade is your command Duke Leopold. What you plan is audacious. But these Mongols aren't the same as so many of the Venetians and Hungarians you've sent screaming to Hell. They are born in the saddle, born to fight and plunder. They nearly shattered the Kaiser's army at better odds than you'll get if you attack them.

I salute your bravery, Sir.

May God guide and protect you and your men.

GeneralHankerchief
06-06-2007, 21:02
Conrad Salier:

God be with you, Duke Leopold. The Austrians have trusted you for so long and you have never let them down. I shall do the same here. It will be an honor to ride with you, Sir.

econ21
06-06-2007, 22:02
Henry: Gentlemen, this is not the time to talk of our brothers as cowards and fools! This is a time to talk of how we plan to bring battle to our enemies!

I have recovered from the ordeal of battle and have studied the dispositions of the enemy. Gentlemen, we have them. They are undone. We have won afterall.

Let me explain. You know the situation - three Mongol armies concentrate around Damascus, while one marches close to me. Fortunately, one of the three armies is far from a full force and consists of a mere 462 souls. Duke Leopold proposes to attack these three armies. I agree. But we should do so with cunning. I propose that the good Duke lead his crusade to strike the large army led by Aradan the Wrathful, approaching from the south of Damascus. My spies report that Aradan is the most competent of the enemy generals and if not confronted directly will surely move to aid whoever we do strike. However, if Duke Leopold strikes Aradan at night, I do believe the two remaining Mongol generals nearby will be unable to support him. The odds will then be even.

Nonetheless, I will send three regiments of pavise crossbowmen to reinforce the crusade. The Chancellor has privately suggested such a reinforcement to me and my recent experience has made clear the wisdom of his idea. The crusade should not face a full strength Mongol army with less than six regiments of crossbowmen - their horse archers are too many and we have no other effective counter to them. Furthermore, I recommend to the Chancellor that he consider replacing the pilgrims with crusader sergeants as well - I do believe our priests have converted sufficient locals in the province to enable such recruitment into the crusade.

I know the Duke towers above us all in his command ability, but nonetheless, he should expect substantial losses. We should prepare to reinforce him after the battle - with both what is left of my army and those generals he has judged cannot be exposed in his first assault on the Mongols. After he has defeated Aradan, God willing, my brother may strike again - hitting one of the two remaining armies besieging Damascus. Or alternatively, he may rest to recuperate as he sees fit.

Further, I would petition the Chancellor to reinforce my Imperial army and allow me to strike at the fourth Mongol army that is roaming nearby. There is a large force of reinforcements a little to my rear and I believe that even after taking some of my men to support the crusade, the Chancellor may be able to provide me with sufficient men to battle the Mongols once more.

Gentlemen, I believe ultimate authority over our plan of attack lies with the Chancellor. However, I am sure he would welcome our views as the commanders on the ground. What say you? While we cannot avoid hard fighting, I do believe the strategy I have proposed offers us good odds of success.

[OOC: I would recommend avoiding multi-stack battles - not just because I fear we would lose, but also because the lag can be horrible. There are so many Mongols, and so many arrows, battling them can strain even a decent computer.]

GeneralHankerchief
06-06-2007, 22:04
OOC: Great, you post that right after I'm done writing my story about how everyone's going to be lucky if they survive. :tongue:

FactionHeir
06-06-2007, 22:40
My dear crusaders.

I have brought a few maps and supply details that are available for our armies in Outremer, I hope they will aid in planning your moves and what is and is not possible.

https://img508.imageshack.us/img508/1917/0000mp8.jpg


https://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7333/0002mb0.jpg


The first map shows Emperor Henry and King Otto's positions and their capabilities. For the moment, King Otto would not be able to strike out at any of the Mongol hordes this year as many of his men are brought fresh from Acre and roads in Damascus seem poorly constructed.
Emperor Henry may barely reach the Mongol warlord Jebe this year with his reinforced army.

The second map shows our northern forces, which is Duke Leopold and the other crusaders. The crusaders Duke Leopold has ordered split from the main army are currently led by my brother Elberhard, although this may still change, and have some reinforcements I brought in from Aleppo. They have also taken all fanatics from Duke Leopold. Note, these are no ordinary pilgrims are can strike even the best of our knights down in their fervor.
Duke Leopold has few missile regiments, although if he wishes, I may send him some from Emperor Henry's army and as a consequence move King Otto into a position from which he can reinforce our Emperor.
Duke Leopold also has large contingents of spearmen and mounted knights which should come in handy.

Note that Duke Leopold's army can move just about anywhere this year still but the second crusader army can barely reach Damascus if at all and could at best be used as a reinforcement this year.

Our Mongol foes' armies are well known to us as I have sent two of our best spies to gather information. This information I have attached to the sides of the map.

Oh, and if Emperor Henry or King Otto wish to join the crusade to defend Jerusalem and defeat these heathens, I believe their men may be inspired to move as far as Damascus itself, enabling us to end the Mongol threat this year still.

If you require further information or have final standing orders, let me know so I can meet the arrangements.

OverKnight
06-06-2007, 23:32
Otto studies the maps and speaks:

Before I die, I would like to lead men against these fearsome Horsemen. Yet, the army I have, even if we took the cross again, would only serve to provide reinforcements to an attack on the Mongol army led by Adaran (the stack directly south of the other mongol stack besieging Antioch). I am afraid that my force would be too exhausted to initiate an action themselves.

The best use of my men would be to serve as reinforcements to the Kaiser if he chooses to attack the Mongol army deployed next to him. Of course, if the Kaiser wishes to use some of my men, I insist I join them in the battle. Leading or no, I want to test my mettle against the Mongols.

I have already made my appeal for the Crusade to wait a year so the Kaiser, myself and our forces could join them around Damascus. The Kaiser has his own thoughts on how Duke Leopold should proceed. What he decides is beyond my control. I will serve where the Chancellor feels I am needed. All I ask is that I get the opportunity to strike at these invaders, either as a General or just leading my own retainers.

FactionHeir
06-06-2007, 23:42
Without meaning any disrespect, I would consider following move quite strategically sound:

Both Emperor Henry and King Otto could take up the cross. Emperor Henry would supply King Otto with a few men so he may attack the Mongol warlor Jebe near Jerusalem while Emperor Henry himself moves towards Damascus to reinforce an attack led by Duke Leopold and provide him with advice on how to proceed in battle. That way both King Otto would lead men into battle and Duke Leopold would have good chances of defeating the Mongols around Damascus.

However, the final decision is up to this body where everyone's voice is equal.

OverKnight
06-06-2007, 23:45
That would be acceptable to me. I serve at the discretion of the Chancellor and Kaiser.

GeneralHankerchief
06-06-2007, 23:48
Conrad Salier:

I shall base my decision on siege equipment. If we wait, is there a possibility that the Mongols will assault Damascus?

FactionHeir
06-06-2007, 23:49
Yes. reports show that the Mongol leader has built a ram, a siege tower and 3 ladders so far I believe. Our spy was not exactly certain whether there may be more or less ladders however.

GeneralHankerchief
06-06-2007, 23:53
Conrad Salier:

That is more equipment than I am comfortable with. If it is, in fact, our goal to defend Christianity, and we are to do it by saving Damascus, I don't want to take any chances. I vote that we attack using the Kaiser's fight-at-night strategy.

econ21
06-07-2007, 00:23
Henry: If I understand the Chancellor's proposal, it is similar to that which I proposed earlier except that King Otto rather than myself would strike at the lone Mongol army and I would support Duke Leopold's thrust on Damascus. I presume the Duke would aim first for Aradan and strike at night to catch his army alone as I suggested? If that is broadly what the Chancellor proposes, it sounds a fine plan. I would happily trust him as to its implementation, deferring to his judgement about whether to join a crusade and so forth.

Conrad Salier - I admire your wish to save Damascus, although regrettably if we drive off the Mongols we will still have to assault the Egyptian defenders ourselves. I pray that if my brother prevails due to the will of God, he will fight against his harsher instincts and merely occupy the city, which is - as Conrad says - now largely Christian thanks to our missionary work.

Post-script: while I have the Chancellor's attention, I would add on another matter that I am happy for him to use Imperial settlements in peace negotiations as he requested.

FactionHeir
06-07-2007, 00:31
Thank you for your trust my emperor.
I believe we have agreed on a plan then? I would still wish to hear Duke Leopold's views on this matter as he will be commanding one of the armies before proceeding.

OOC: *runs off to sell Rome to the highest bidder*

not

Northnovas
06-07-2007, 02:54
The Count reads a new dispatch and a weight has been lifted from his shoulders...

Nobles, I have recieved good news from home and I am in much better frame of mine. The latest tatics proposed sound good and I am willing to take my part where I am most needed to bring victory.

Ituralde
06-07-2007, 16:38
My brother speaks wise words, in fact they mirror what I have discussed with my staff after reviewing Emperor Henry's battle report. I could strike at them from the South. Their Khan is within our grasp and I will not rest until either he or I am slain.

I leave you now as my men are already waiting! You'll hear word of my victory!

FactionHeir
06-07-2007, 16:59
*As Leopold turns to leave, Hans follows him and exchanges a few words with him before returning to the tent.*

My lords, let us pray for the brave Duke of Austria and Fredericus von Hamburg. They will need all the prayers they can get for he does not wish to have any other general accompany him, including our venerable emperor.

econ21
06-07-2007, 17:17
Henry: God go with you, brother.

Ituralde
06-07-2007, 20:31
A burly and grizzled veteran enters the tent where the Council of Crusaders has met to discuss their future strategies. He carries a woven basked that he unceremonously drops on the large table, where usually maps of the area are stored. Looking grimly at the assembled men he raises the lid of the basket. Immediately the sweet smell of rotten flesh fills the room.

In this basket you find the heads of Aradai the Wrathful, Khanzada Batundhun and of the Mongol Khan Jebuk! This was achieved by two successful battles under Duke Leopold of Austria, whose body lies just outside this tent. He died in our most glorious hour, after he single-handedly defeated the Mongol threat to Damascus!

I hope you honour his death and don't forget the man that has brought you these today!

He gestures weakly at the three heads contained in the woven basket, before he salutes and leaves the tent again.

FactionHeir
06-07-2007, 20:50
*Hans makes the sign of the cross before speaking*
It fills my heart with joy to see three of our empire's most cruel yet worthy enemies slain by the most honorable Duke Leopold. But sadness overcomes me when I consider the tribute we paid to achieve such a glorious victory.
Duke Leopold was a fine general, a firece fighter, a noble ruler, and no less a good friend of the people of our holy roman empire. While he did not deserve to be slain by such ignoble barbarians, he at least died with his sword in his hand and countless corpses around him. He died a heroes death my lords and his sacrifice will bring safety to the empire and success to the crusade.

*Hans observes a moment of silence before continuing*
We must now honor his death by successfully bringing this holy crusade to an end and vanquish the last barbarian army in these lands. Afterwards, we may celebrate and commemorate his deeds and ask the pope at Jerusalem to give him the last blessings.

My lords, we have work to do!

econ21
06-07-2007, 22:24
Henry: I knew facing the Horse Lord invasion would be costly, but I did not anticipate this. If I had known this would have been the result when my brother asked to lead the crusade... This death was to have been my fate, not his.

My brother was an exemplary fighter - his reputation for command, which had been built up by years of lonely battling along our borders, has now been immortalised by the manner of his death. I am at a loss for words, when I look at what he achieved in his battles outside Damascus.

We will all mourn his passing.

But for now, as the Chancellor says, there is still one last job to be done in our war with the Mongols. Chancellor, I believe it is King Otto who will have the honour? If so, I wish him good hunting.

FactionHeir
06-07-2007, 22:55
Indeed, I have already sent him word that all troops are assembled for the last strike against these barbarians.

OverKnight
06-08-2007, 00:41
Otto has been silent after hearing of Leopold's death, lost in thought and memory. Over that time, his face has become a stony mask. Looking down at the basket of severed heads he speaks in a harsh voice:

There's one missing. I must complete our collection.

With a bow to the Emperor and a nod to the Chancellor, Otto strides out of the tent.

Northnovas
06-08-2007, 04:29
Karl was stunned by the news, many thoughts raced through his head. He felt like weeping but this was not the place. Leopold was gone his mentor, there was still much to learn. He never felt more alone and isolated. He did not feel that he belonged with the nobles around him. He was shocked by the news and was could only say...

Damascus will be taking for the Reich and the House of Austria and I shall avenge Duke Leopold's death by exterminating every Mongol soldier from this land; as God is my witness.

OverKnight
06-08-2007, 05:46
Otto limps back into the Council. His armor is dented and covered with dried blood, it has been pierced in several places by now removed arrows. Dragging his right leg behind him, he moves to the center of the Council. Reaching into a canvas bag soaked with blood, he brandishes the head of the newest and last Mongol Khan:

Jebe the Mauler is dead!

Otto tosses the head into the basket with the others.

It was the most fearsome battle I've ever seen. They would not break, even after their Khan died. I lost a thousand men, almost two thirds my army, but they are all dead or run away.

https://img245.imageshack.us/img245/796/pgalcasualtieskk8.jpg

Otto seems momentarily overcome at the losses. He recovers and speaks in a guttural growl:

Their army routed and the Mongols will trouble us no more. They are destroyed!

https://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2778/rgaldestroyedfl7.jpg

Leopold is avenged! I am. . .

Otto collapses.

FactionHeir
06-08-2007, 07:39
*Hans rushes over to the old knight and sets him down on one of the makeshift tables*
Someone bring a bucket with water!
*turns to one of the guards staring at the scene*
You. Send word to Salier that the troops are assembled for him to assault Damascus.
*to Dirk:*
Send me a physician will you!

econ21
06-08-2007, 09:00
Henry: Well fought, King Otto - you have avenged the loss of my brother; I am in your debt once again.

Chancellor, I wonder if I may return to Edessa? I have some unfinished business there. I would like to see the Kingdom of Outremer completed before I die. I know men are short and I do not require a full army - perhaps a more modest force might entice the Egyptians to leave their fortifications. However, if you could send some priests ahead of me, it would be appreciated. Also, if your brother Elberhard could be spared, I would like him to join me and perhaps continue the work if I should be called away.

econ21
06-09-2007, 11:33
Henry: Congratulations to Fredericus von Hamburg on his taking of Damascus. Like most of our recent gains, it was costly but well fought. I was surprised to see Medhat Kafur commanding the garrison - I ransomed that chap outside of Edessa; he would have been better advised to stay there.

The establishment of Outremer is nearly complete - there remains only Edessa.

FactionHeir
06-09-2007, 12:20
I applaud Fredericus and our other noble crusaders for taking Damascus and showing their faith by marching all the way from Europe. You truly deserve your new positions.

Now, I shall retreat and make arrangements for our emperor's mission to Damascus and send word to Elberhard as well.

GeneralHankerchief
06-15-2007, 01:03
Conrad Salier:

Gentlemen, the Horse Lords have arrived for another try at our lands. While their forces do not seem as large and we will be more, er, prepared (*Conrad pales*), please keep in mind that we will most likely be facing invasion when you authorize build queues next Diet session.

FactionHeir
06-15-2007, 01:13
My fellow crusaders.

After receiving reports of the Mongol invasion, I have ordered all fortresses in Outremer to produce troops to raise our level above what we had to show the original invaders. This is to compensate for any mishaps that may occur in battle or due to logistics.
I am open to further suggestions regarding Outremer.

econ21
06-15-2007, 09:01
Kaiser Henry: I believe we should learn from our last experience. To defeat the horse lords, we had three full strength armies of good quality (horse and crossbows are particularly important, I believe). I believe we should work towards recreating such a force. It would be helpful if the three armies were each led by night fighters - I volunteer myself and Elberhard to jointly lead one of the three armies; we have nearly sufficient pavisiers but are in want of other troop types.

It is not clear at this stage where the Horse Lords are heading. Baghdad was merely sacked - they do not intend to make it their homelands. It is possible they will take on the Turks after the whipping we gave them last time. But I fear once again that Outremer has the most tempting targets for their invasion.

I am of the opinion that we should mobilise and march on them as soon as possible. Meet them head on.

GeneralHankerchief
06-15-2007, 14:42
Conrad Salier:

Mein Kaiser, I respectfully disagree. We are not at war with just the Horse Lords. If we empty Outremer to march out and fight them head-on, the Turks and Egyptians will see this as an opportunity and invade. I suggest that we wait until they get much closer to us before striking out and attacking.

GeneralHankerchief
06-30-2007, 18:42
Conrad Salier:

Due to recent, er, events, Wolfgang Hummel is now Count of Acre.

The updated count list is as follows:

Antioch - Conrad Salier (GeneralHankerchief)
Damascus - Karl Zirn (Northnovas)
Adana - Matthias Steffin (OverKnight)
Acre - Wolfgang Hummel (Ignoramus)
Aleppo - Fredricus von Hamburg (FLYdude)
Edessa - Elberhard (econ21)

FactionHeir
06-30-2007, 20:43
Messenger
King Salier,

As voiced in the diet, I shall be embarking towards Outremer once again to assist you in your plight against the Mongols - this time not as the guiding hand, but as the sword of christ.

Count Hans the Mighty of Swabia

Northnovas
07-02-2007, 20:20
Karl Zirn

King Salier, thank you for your goods words to the Kaiser. My Duke has also offered support back home and I look forward in leading an Imperial Army to battle and getting the young Hummel knighted.

GeneralHankerchief
07-03-2007, 23:43
Conrad Salier:

Count Hans, thank you for your assistance.

Count Zirn, I wish you luck in your endeavour.

Since the future King of Outremer will no doubt be reading this transcript, let me say here that I think I've figured out the secret to keeping the Kingdom safe from all outside influences. If the Dukes regard you as a pain in the :daisy: then you are doing your job well.

econ21
07-10-2007, 00:02
A message for King Salier:




Right, boss, I've taken command of my late father's "army" east of Edessa. A right @#$%^&!!!ing strange collection of men, I must say. Mainly crossbowmen, but lacking much horse or solid foot. While such lads would be handy in a fight with the Horse Lords, without protection, the Horse Lord cavalry would bowl them over like a bunch of skittles.

The Horse Lords are besieging Mosul a little further east. Tough luck for our enemies, the @#$%^&!!!ing Turks. But I reckon Edessa will be the Horse Lords next stop. Well, there is @#$%^&!!! all else out in this @#$%^&!!!ing desert, is there?

So, what's the plan, boss?

Do I get the @#$%^&!!! out of here and hole up in Edessa? I reckon I could hold it until relieved.

You are planning to @#$%^&!!!ing relieve me, right, boss?

Yours etc

Elberhard

GeneralHankerchief
07-10-2007, 00:07
Conrad Salier:

I will speak to the Kaiser. I believe that the Horse Lords will be better handled behind walls than out in the field. If he agrees then you will return to Edessa, hopefully bulked up by reinforcements.

There you will stay and delay them while the other armies in the area will march to your aid.

I will send this strategy to the Kaiser unless there are any objections from the other Counts or anyone else located in Outremer.

Northnovas
07-10-2007, 01:43
Karl Zirn:

I think it best that our units in Edessa remain behind walls to see what the Horse Lords bring to the fight. I just hope that taking the Turkish city Iconium, if that is still the plan. I hope it does not push necessary resources too far west.

OverKnight
07-10-2007, 02:19
Matthias:

I may still be stuck in Europe, but I agree with staying behind the walls for now. The reason we were able to dispatch the Mongols in the open field the first time was because the Second Crusade, and many of the forces of the First Crusade, arrived at Damascus at around the same time as the Horsemen.

I did not personally witness it, and I can hardly believe even after reading the historical records that such a large force of Imperial soldiers, four full Armies worth, gathered together in such a small area. God was smiling on us though, and through strong leadership and sacrifice, the Mongols were quickly defeated in the open.

We, unfortunately, do not have the same situation now. The forces of Outremer, while of excellent quality, are scattered and depleted. We will need time to reinforce and recruit. That is why I belive we should stay behind walls for now. It will also serve to negate the Mongol advantage in bowmen. The downside is that our garrison will be tied to one spot, allowing multiple Mongol armies, if they see fit, to engage us.

I hope to be in Outremer as soon as possible. I would be most vexed if I missed this.

Privateerkev
07-11-2007, 04:55
A ragged messenger makes his way to the King's army bringing word from Damascus:




My King,

I hope this letter finds you well. I am writing to inform you that a small Egyptian force with siege equipment is just south of Damascus. I had previously asked for your and the chancellor's permission to join up with you but I want to know if you wish for me to deal with this threat first. I believe we will be besieged any day now. Also, would it be possible to reinforce this area? In the city there is only one unit of spears and two small groups of religious orders. While all of us would be more than willing to die in the service of the Reich and the Lord, it may be prudent to let us live so we can continue to do the good Lord's work. There are many strategic options available to us. Both your army and my father's army are within range to the West and the youngest Hummel brother has just come of age and can reach us from the North. Also, scouts tell me that the Egyptian Sultan is just East of the city. Might be an opportunity to cut the head from the snake. I await your orders and guidance but I warn you that time is running short for we will most certainly be besieged soon.

Your humble servant,
Jan

GeneralHankerchief
07-11-2007, 22:31
Conrad Salier:

Seeing as you are not yet knighted the only option is to link up with me in Damascus. In the meantime, I will ask the Kaiser to really churn out the troops in the appropriate castles.

Privateerkev
07-11-2007, 22:38
Seeing as you are not yet knighted the only option is to link up with me in Damascus. In the meantime, I will ask the Kaiser to really churn out the troops in the appropriate castles.

Jan:

Then I eagerly await your arrival in Damascus so you can survey the situation personally. I only ask that if you go after these foes, that you please take me with you . I am starting to grow impatient from so much inaction. I feel my body has dulled from too much easy city living and I wish to sharpen and hone myself to be a better weapon for the Reich and the Lord.

Your humble servant,
Jan

GeneralHankerchief
07-11-2007, 22:40
Conrad Salier:

We need as many knights as we can get in the east, so yes, I definitely will take you with me. I will be amazed if we come out of this wave with no major deaths.

flyd
07-19-2007, 01:44
Crusaders,

When I ran for the post of Chancellor, I had one purpose: to prepare the Outremer for the Mongol assault. When I ran again a few years later, I had the same purpose, but we are out of time. I have sent all the troops to Edessa, and every Imperial castle in the Outremer has been training troops at the maximum capacity. Still, it is unlikely that we would win against the Mongols in the open field. All 4 Mongol armies remain near each other, and I believe most of their commanders would not be surprised by a sneak night attack. For that reason, Elberhard and Conrad Salier are to withdraw towards Aleppo, and set up a defense there, and at the bridge on the Euphrates river. Jan von Hamburg will remain with Salier's army. I will hold Edessa for as long as possible.

Fredericus von Hamburg.

FactionHeir
07-19-2007, 04:33
In the light of this uncertainty, I am most displeased that the chancellor refuses my request to spend 1000 florins for a fleet to hasten my arrival in Outremer by at least 4 years. I shall reconsider whether in the light of these events my presence in Outremer is truly appreciated.

Privateerkev
07-20-2007, 04:51
The newly knighted Jan von Hamburg walks into the King's command tent wearing dirty battle armor and accompanied by his brother in law, Dieter. He brings in a map of the area and unrolls it on a large table. Present is Jan, Dieter, the King, and aides to Elberhard and Karl Zirn so they may later take word back to their commanders.

My lord...assembled gentlemen...we have all heard of my father's intention to defend Edessa and wait for the Hordes to come to him. I don't know about any of you, but I am not about to let him fall at the hands of those pagan scum! I propose a plan to you, my fellow crusaders, that we might collectively take to my father, and hopefully convince him to let us implement. Please forgive the impudence I am about to display, but I believe my father's life hangs on the decisions we make at this very meeting. I have read the scouts' reports carefully and the situation looks grim. Four full stacks of Mongol hordes sit right outside of Edessa. I propose a bold plan to form a ring around this force and thereby set up a situation where we can both defend ourselves from these barbarians and mutually support each other after we are attacked.

Jan points with one finger at the river crossing just northwest of Edessa and points the other finger at Elberhard's aide.

Most of Elberhard's men are well rested and can make it to this river crossing. There they can hold off an assault while also providing support should the horse lords pick a different target.

OOC: While a few of the crossbow units have no MP, the rest of this force could reach that river crossing on this turn if those units are deselected.

Jan waves a hand towards the King while pointing at the bridge that Elberhard's forces currently occupy.

My king, if you wish, your forces can then take position on the bridge that Elberhard currently occupies. From here, you can defend yourself from an assault while maintaining the ability to come up from the South and attack the horse lords from behind when they pick their target.

Jan points at Dieter.

My brother in law, along with most of my forces, are well rested and can join up with the King in short time. I have to tend to my wounded from the last battle and can not make it for a short while but will be able to move soon.

OOC: Most of my forces have enough MP to make it to Conrad's position but Jan is almost out of MP for this turn.

What this does gentlemen, is put our forces where we can assist my father in the event of a siege, while providing our forces with strong defensive positions. I implore you to give careful thought to my plan for I fear it might be the only chance my father has at coming out of this alive. I leave you all to convene with your commanders and advisers and I hope to hear from you all soon.

Jan rolls up the map, turns around, and walks out of the tent followed by Dieter.

GeneralHankerchief
07-20-2007, 16:34
Conrad Salier:

I would agree with this plan if the Horse Lords were our only threat. However, we must turn our gaze to the South at the moment, namely Acre. A large Egyptian army is about to make its way into our territory and could easily capture one or more territories. If we ring around the Horse Lords it will grow even more difficult to mark this force.