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Bohemond
08-06-2001, 23:44
In the Middle Ages, the biggest obstacle for big-scale conquest was that it was very difficult to maintain a large army for a long time. There was no such thing as a standing army. Though much more powerful than them, the famous Sultan Saladin for instance could not crush the Crusader states at first because he couldn't pay such a large army for long enough. It was therefore a stroke of luck that the Crusaders attacked him when he was in command of several tens of thousand troops.

Therefore the Hojo-tactic of building a "Grande Armee" and keep them sitting on their butts for decades is plain ridiculous.

I have some ideas how it would be possible to make things more difficult for the attacker, because I would not like it if in CTW you could simply conquer all of Europe .. Fronts should be moving much more slowly! Even the Mongols, Turks and the great Napolean didn't achieve that much in terms of gained territory.

(1) upkeep of 1 unit per province is free: this favors the poorer states a bit, because they should have equal or higher number of provinces. It also makes the conquest of provinces with a small income more interesting.
(2) upkeep of troops is expensive. You should think twice if it is not better to disband your armies.
(3) very important: upkeep gets more and more expensive the farther your army is away from your home provinces, lets say it doubles(if loyalty is < 100% it cannot provide your army). This is very realistic, and makes retreating to a castle more favorable, because your opponent might run out of gold. It would generally greatly raise the strategic value of castles.

Another thing I would like to be implemented is loyalty of generals (and other clan-leaders). Lets assume every person in the game has a value of loyalty towards you, and that there are 4 + 4 levels of loyalty like:

100 to 75% : Retainer
75 to 50% : Vassal
50 to 25% : Ally
25 to 0% : Friend
0 to -25% : Rival
-25 to -50% Foe
-50 to -75% Enemy
-75 to 100% Sworn Enemy

It would make the whole diplomacy-thing more logical. You can command the troops of your Retainers to your liking. You can move the troops of your Vassals like your own, but they might disobey you. You can ask you allies to move their armies such and such. But you cannot know if they have their own plans. And so on.
Generals (yours and enemy) should also have a loyalty of their own. It would make it possible for a general to switch sides, or suddenly found a renegade-state. It then would also make sense to assasinate generals whose loyalty is to low. There could be numerous incidences that change loyalty, like bribing, promotion or lack thereof, marriage to one of your daughters, etc ..

BTW, all my suggestions should be relatively easy to implement, because they are basically controlled by two variables : loyalty and gold.

Please forgive me that my postings get that long .. too many ideas .. and no game in sight ..




[This message has been edited by Bohemond (edited 08-06-2001).]

Bohemond
08-07-2001, 00:56
Another cool feature that comes to my mind is the ability to talk to every person in the game, generals, diplomats etc. Normally there is only smalltalk, but options come available as the game progresses (For instance suggest alliance).

HATAMOTOKILL
08-07-2001, 03:01
so many ideas???good points made,take a look at the new crusaders for 2002 in pc gamer?lots of new stuff +improvements........ http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Alastair
08-07-2001, 03:17
Very good ideas. I'd make a game like that if I were a developer and publisher in one... but I'm not, and CA hasn't shown much receptivity with suggestions.

Shuko
08-07-2001, 19:46
Bohemond

some good ideas there http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


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Anssi Hakkinen
08-10-2001, 21:59
Transferred from GD.

[This message has been edited by Anssi Hakkinen (edited 08-10-2001).]

Yoritomo
08-11-2001, 12:53
"Saladin for instance could not crush the Crusader states at first because he couldn't pay such a large army for long enough. It was therefore a stroke of luck that the Crusaders attacked him when he was in command of several tens of thousand troops."

Forgive me If im wrong, but the chief reasons why Saladdin could not get the army together was because they were warring eachother. That is why there was not a combined effort to kick the Franks out of the east in the first place???

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"I found Rome paved in brick and left it Marble" - Caesar Octavian Augutus

A Nerd
08-11-2001, 20:58
Bohemond, those are grand ideas!

Bohemond
08-18-2001, 16:19
Quote Originally posted by Yoritomo:
"Saladin for instance could not crush the Crusader states at first because he couldn't pay such a large army for long enough. It was therefore a stroke of luck that the Crusaders attacked him when he was in command of several tens of thousand troops."

Forgive me If im wrong, but the chief reasons why Saladdin could not get the army together was because they were warring eachother. That is why there was not a combined effort to kick the Franks out of the east in the first place???

[/QUOTE]

Yes you are right. Nur-ed-din coould defeat the Eqyptian Fatimids, who had taken a very appeasing stance towards the Franks. He then installed Saladin as new Sultan of Egypt. after the dead of Nur-ed-din, Saladin became ruler of both Bagdad and Kairo, and for the first time Islam was united.
But still, the Crusaders could have out-waited him, because the upkeep of his army was too expensive. Instead they marched to Hattin to be defeated.
The point that I wanted to make was: and attacking force of considerable size is so expensive that you have to put them to good use very quickly, or disband. Defenders, especially in towns, should be free.

MagyarKhans Cham
08-18-2001, 18:08
diplomacy should be handled outside a game, but in the foyer online

Hirosito
08-20-2001, 05:18
I think your suggestions are very good bohemond. i think to a certain degree (ie bribes) they have been incorporated in MI. The frequent disbansion of armies is realistic. Maybe a system of a certain amount of units deserting as time goes on (like people dying in a castle siege in shogun) could demonstrate the will of your soldiers to be for instance farming rather than fighting. Although units will have to be made cheaper or otherwise easier to get because the european vassels didn't have much of choice when they were asked to provide soldiers.

what a disjointed post...amazing


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Hirosito Mori

A warrior's wisdom is shown in the treating of his defeated opponent http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/owen/sid.gif

Catiline
08-21-2001, 00:30
I want scouts. I have no idea of how realistic this is, but the biggest improvement they could make for me would to be to remove the thing that tells you what enemy troops arew when you point over them, and then introduce scouts. you'd have to train them and send them into a province like Shinobi, but they'd be the only way to extend your view so you turn off that unlimited camera thing but still have the ability to scout an enemy army with something other htan one of your units. Give them enough common sense to keep out of trouble, this I think wouldn't take much, they could just be on a slightly glorified skirmish command. We all know the trouble people used ot have distinguishing Monks and Ashi, and accusing people of cheating because they'd escaped before actually checking. I've used muskets in the wet to good effect before by flanking with them in wedge formation, people don't think to check at a distance, and change to meet a perceived threat.

the next best thing would be the ability to put cav on skirmish so they don't get caught by infantry when you're not looking.

ideally of course i'd like a command system basesd on messengers. You have so many and it takes so long for them to take orders from a-b and back. Not so suited to CTW maybe wrong period for an organised system (?) but would make for much tenser battles, wasteall your oreders early and you're stranded until they start to arrive back.

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Oderint dum metuant

Swoosh So
08-21-2001, 00:40
i would like to see ai controlled reinforcements as ive stated in another thread, so that in sp campaign you can fight alongside your armies instead of just controlling the 16 units max, you could also have a performance option if it would take alot out of your pc ie No. of ai controlled armies 4-7 or something, then the rest could come on as reinforcements. Just an idea http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif but one that i think would add alot to the game.

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