Your army Compositions and tactics. [Archive]

Rilder

04-11-2007, 00:14

Well I know some people don't like discussing there "Uber secret tactics" but how does everyone form and fight there armies?

Anways heres mine, it hasn't seen to many battles but it's about be tested against the Romans and it seems rather sound it's basicly a Roman like formation in itself wearing down the enemies while fresher troups are almost always in reserve..

https://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s311/Rilder/armycomposition.jpg

First line:
Skirmishers, they throw there javalins then run back to the flanks to prepare for flanking manuevers once battle is closed...

Second line: Allied infantry, cheap easy to raise troups form the first battle line, designed with the simple fact thats it better to throw local troups into battle first instead of troups that have to be shuffled from deep in the homelands.Basicly acts as my Hasati.

3rd line: Light Spearmen from the homelands, one of my favorite Lusotannan units as a unit of them saved one of my earlier battles. Basicly acts of my Princepes.

4th line: Medium Spearmen, again from the homelands, designed to take the place of the the spearment should they be broken, acts as my Triarii Kinda.

5th line: The Guardians & Calvary, this line is were my Elites and Calvary are, (Ambrako I think are my elites) Basicly if the rest of my men have routed its up to these elites to atempt to save the battle, if possible hold them long enough to organize the routed units; calvary does typical flanking moves during battle.

:2thumbsup:
There now post your Armies....:beam:

antisocialmunky

04-11-2007, 00:50

Sometimes I use a roman checkboard deplyoment which is actually amazingly useful. Too bad its nigh impossible sometimes.

One of my favorite tactics is use Greek elite Phalangites(the yellow ones) in a super wide formation- three deep with defense off, or in a dense formation with defense off. This is useful against big units of phalangites. The first method causes the phalangites to flank their opponent. The second method causes the phalangites to split a enemy phalanx in half after which you take them out of phalanx and watch your men win. This only works against un-elite phalangites through.

No silver shields for you.

Another fun tactic is to use two slingers to isolate a unit between them so which ever way they run, they'll be pelted from behind.

Orb

04-11-2007, 01:09

@Rilder, is there some reason for your criminal lack of Caetrannan?

Boyar Son

04-11-2007, 01:13

Oh I invented that formation for myself long ago....glad to see others also use it!

Owen the Mighty

04-11-2007, 01:16

Although I don't have a screenshot, this is a diagram of how I deploy my immortal-slaying Makedonians!

Formation...

-----------------------S----------S
-------------------F A P P P P P P P A F
-----------------------T T T
-------------------C------G-----------C
-------------------C

P = Pikeman Infatry (usually Pezhetairoi)
A = Assualt Infantry (usually Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi)
F = Flanking Infantry (usually Thureophoroi)
S = Skirmishers (usually Thrakioi Peltastai)
T = Archers...well, it is always Toxotai.
C = Cavalry (preferably Hetairoi)
G = General

Being a phalangite army, my above formation is not a very offensive force. Instead, it is armed to the teeth, and is near unstoppable in open field battles, and when defending fortifications. Although an army of this size and with this exact unit roster is hardly ever apparent in my Makedonian campaign, it is what I base my armies around.

Tactics...

Well, I usually do the run-of-the-mill phalangite tactic: hammer and anvil. Although, with my semi-assault infantry skirmishers, my Agrianians, and my Spearmen, I can bash my way through other defensive formations with ease. So, my battle plan is as follows:

1. Deploy pikemen in a 4-man deep line, which covers most of the battlefield.
2. If I am being attacked, I set up my other units on the pikemen's flanks, to keep them guarded from cavalry, and other forms of infantry.
3. If I am attacking, I will send my skirmishers forward with the support of my Spearmen-esque infantry, and harrass the approaching force. When all of my ammunition is depleted, I send my archers forward to further break the on-coming ranks.
4. Usually, by this time, my enemy's cavalry will have tried to repel my forward units, and I counter this with a unit of Companions, or Thessalians. This usally demolishes that cavalry unit. If not, I send my forward units back to my pikemen's flanks.
5. As you may have noticed, I have a strong-sided left flank with an extra unit of cavalry. I do this to tempt my enemy into attacking my right, which I counter with a unit of fresh Spearmen and with another unit of cavalry. This (usually) completely destroys my enemy's cavalry. If they do not fall for the trap, I change the placement of these cavalry units according to which of my enemy's flanks is the weakest, so I can also make a strong cavalry charge on their weak side.
6. And the rest is simple: Let the enemy infantry march forward and hit my phalanx line, and let them fight a war of attrtion. Meanwhile, my assault and flanking infantry units hit their flanks, while my cavalry units hit their rear; therefore enevolping them in a sea of spears.......Victory!

And that's how I fight with the Sons of Alexander! (Sorry if this was a tad bit long, but I have too many tactics flowing in my head....Chess, Checkers, Warhammer, EB...)

Enjoy!

Swebozbozboz

04-11-2007, 02:56

how do you change how many men deep a unit deploys? I'm very curious.

NeoSpartan

04-11-2007, 03:00

how do you change how many men deep a unit deploys? I'm very curious.

right click, drag and let go

Boyar Son

04-11-2007, 03:10

- or + i forgot which was for deep and skinny:sweatdrop:

Cataphract_Of_The_City

04-11-2007, 03:15

Rilder

04-11-2007, 05:10

@Rilder, is there some reason for your criminal lack of Caetrannan?

I Dunno, just prefer the spearmen over them.:sweatdrop:

Thaatu

04-11-2007, 05:34

antisocialmunky

04-11-2007, 05:44

LordCurlyton

04-11-2007, 06:33

I like strange compositions myself. Generally I like a core of factional troops backed up by regional units/mercs. As an example, the army I used to wipe out the Getai as the Maks consisted of a solid pike line (5 Pez) with 2 Theurophoroi, the Gen, 2 Thessalian Cav, a Prodromoi, and 2 Pelatsti and Sphendeteroti, backed up by 5 HA regionals from Kallatis. I found it to be extremely useful and I intend to use that setup as my northern conquest army, adjusted for size, of course.
Though I will admit that the most effective army I've had (it broke many a Ptolie siege in my Romani campaign) was an army consisting of nothing but 12 Numidian Skirmishers, 7 Numidian Skirm Cav, and a Gen. It routinely would smack down full stack elite armies of the Ptolies that would have 6-8 Elite pikes, a similar number of Galatian Heavies, plus a couple skirms and cav. And it would do so in auto-calc as well, though I only risked that after they got experience. By the end they were all triple silver or gold chevroned.

I don't get fancy with army deployment; if its a pike army I setup a standard line (pikes with support on the flanks, skirms in front, cavs setup usually behind in the center so they can get to either side easily, if its non-pike infantry I try to emulate the Roman style of deployment. Skirmisher armies are obviously set up to try and maximize the amount of encirclement.

I will say there is one formation the computer presents me with sometime that I find intriguing that I have no idea where it gets it from, yet it does work. It is set up thus:
________+Sw++Sp+________________________________+Sp++Sw+
_________+Sw++Sp+______________________________+Sp++Sw+
_______________+Sp+++P++_________________++P+++Sp+
____________________+Sp+++P++++P++++P+++Sp+
_________________________(+In++In++In+)
__(+++C+++)_________________(++G++)___________________(+++C+++)

Sw=Sword Inf
Sp=Spear Inf
P=Pikes
C= Cav
Gen=General
In=Any non-pike Infantry

I can only recall seeing this in armies with only all infantry or with the 3-5 cav units. If cav then the cav would be placed as shown, if no cav then the extra inf is almost always placed behind the main pike line (its usually swords but I have seen spears a couple times). As I said, I find it to be far more effective than I would have expected, being able to go toe-to-toe with just about any army shy of a HA army, which I shudder to contemplate going against with this army. It will generally pulverize any pike or infantry army it comes across and can generally beat melee cav-heavy armies as well (haven't seen it pop up in an eastern area to test against cats). You can also get this setup from compy if you have inf skirmishers/archers/slingers instead of 3-5 cav/other inf, in which case the skirm/range units will invariably be placed somewhere you don't want them (namely, anywhere) since they will be nigh impossible to protect. Archers can do fine, though, as long as skirm mode is removed, and peltasts are just heavy enough that they can take part in the battle line.

L.C.Cinna

04-11-2007, 10:46

My army compositions vary greatly. I play the Romani most of the time and I change my armies depending on whom I'll face. So, main body always stays the same.

1 general

10 units of Roman infantry (4 hastati, 4 principes, 2 triarii, or simply 10 post-marian cohorts) in 2 or 3 lines depending on how the enemy approaches.

4 cavalry 2 on each flank

There are variations, if one flank is well protected because of territorial features I ight as well have only 1 cavalry on that flank and 3 on the other.

anyway the rest of the troops vary. If i face a faction with lots of light troops like easterners with fast missile cavalry and skirmishers I use more slingers for example, when I face carthaginians I usually hire 2 units of phalangites and place them in the centre and split up my roman force on each side to flank.

Favourite thing I do:

I usually have speartroops for the flanks or 2 units of peltastai or something like that. Use the peltatsts to fire at enemy phalanx or other heavy troops. when they're empty I send them to join my cavalry. Send my cavalry to attack enemy cavalry and send in the peltastai or spearmen after the charge when my cavalry switches to swords. No enemy cavalry can win against heavy cavalry supported by spearmen. :smash:

Once the flanks are won the enemy is dead.

If the enemy has very strong cavalry on each flanks or attacks with 2 armies I look on which side I can operate with my cavalry more freely, then place 3 units of cavalry there plus the spearmen and post my other flank in a defensive manner with the cavalry plus general a bit more in the back to defend against flanking actions while my strong side attacks.

My 2 most used setups:

Standard:

_______H H H H H________ H...Heavy Roman Infantry
_CC L L H H H H H L CC____ C...Cavalry/ L...Light Infantry
________S S__________ S...Slingers
__________G_____________ G...General

Strenghtened Left Flank:

_______H H H H H________ H...Heavy Roman Infantry
CCC L L H H H H H _______ C...Cavalry/ L...Light Infantry
________S S_____L_______ S...Slingers
________________GC______ G...General

shlin28

04-11-2007, 12:04

Playing as Epirus the only "proper" Epirus troop that i use are the Illyrian Thorakitai and the Chaeonian guard, the rest of the army is either merc or locals. And when i was fighting the Romans, i find this strategy particularly effective:

I use Samnites in front of Illyrian Thorakitai on one side, with The General to stop flanking, whilst on the other i put my Chaenian Guard in one big line, and some random hoplites to stop flanking. Then I deploy my elephants about away from the main battle.

And when the enemy is engaging my army, the elephants sweep in from behind, and instant rout for the enemy army.

(It works on the Romans and it generates surprisingly low casualties for my proper Epirus troops)

JeffBag

04-11-2007, 17:21

Playing Epeiros too, and having annihalated the Romans in 5 consecutive heroic victories, before wiping them out as a faction, a large part of my army consists of hastati, since they are so numerous, supporting the rarer Pezhetairoi, Chaonion Agema, and Illyrioi Thorakitai arrayed behind them. 2 units of elephants anchor each flank, destroying enemy cavalry, while the fast moving Molosson Agema and Prodromoi flanks the enemy. The hastati keeps getting completely slaughtered by the huge stacks of elite Seleukid armies, but Roma has a 6% growth rate each time I exterminate the populace, so its nothing.

Owen the Mighty

04-11-2007, 23:54

I will say there is one formation the computer presents me with sometime that I find intriguing that I have no idea where it gets it from, yet it does work. It is set up thus:
________+Sw++Sp+________________________________+Sp++Sw+
_________+Sw++Sp+______________________________+Sp++Sw+
_______________+Sp+++P++_________________++P+++Sp+
____________________+Sp+++P++++P++++P+++Sp+
_________________________(+In++In++In+)
__(+++C+++)_________________(++G++)___________________(+++C+++)

Sw=Sword Inf
Sp=Spear Inf
P=Pikes
C= Cav
Gen=General
In=Any non-pike Infantry

Hmmm... that's interesting, although I think I would use a tad bit more pikemen to strengthen my centre....but with strong spearmen...who knows...

Cool, I've never seen this formation before. (yet another reason why EB is SO much better than Vanilla!)

LordCurlyton

04-12-2007, 03:21

Like I said, its very effective. If they choose to attack the center they are just asking to be slaughtered as they have walked (ran probably) right into an encirclement. Attack either flank and the formation lets you maneuver to counter, since it is HIGHLY unlikely that an enemy force can break a flank in time (maul it maybe, but not break). Even the center pikes can be tactically redeployed for maximum effect. The only thing this army really fears would be a massive HA army, and even then there better be some sort of finishing cav/infantry to ensure a rout. MAYBE a bunch of elite Cats could break the center pikes, but the better damn well do that b/c they will get SLAUGHTERED if they don't.
EDIT: In case anyone cares, the grouping I got it most with was constituted thusly
Spears = Scortamareva, except for 2 Scutarii who always were placed behind the left/right forward pikes
Swords = Originally 3 Samnite Milites and 1 Golberi Cuoras, after camaigning and eventually wearing out the cav and milites it became all Golberi Cuoras (though the Milites lasted hella long)
Pikes = Mishtophoroi Pezheteraoi, who are worth every Mnai you spend on them
Cav = Lance Eporus (or however you spell Gallic light cav), + Gen

It was in my Romani campaign, and I know I got it a couple times as Qart Hadast, with Lucanian Spearmen and Libyans/more Scutarii replacing the Scortamarevas, and generally nice solid blocks of Samnites or Iberian Assaults. I still used the Mercenary Pikes, if only because I had the Carthage Elite Pikes in a different army.

NeoSpartan

04-12-2007, 04:21

I have 2 main battle formations:
The follwing is type I:

https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/Neospartan/Formation1b.jpg

Center Line holds the enemy's center. It is composed of medium/heavy swordsmen and spearmen. All usually on HOLD, depending on the enemy.

-Behind the center line are other medium/heavy infantry. Thier role is to penetrate the gaps in the AI center line, or to plug holes in my line. Due to the flexible nature of Gaellic fighting this is a must.

-Flankers are composed of the Gaestrae with Cavalry support. However, before any flanking can be done, I usually engage and destroy the AI's flanking troops with the Gaestrae+Cavarly team.

I don't like to field a lot of slinger UNLESS the AI is fielding a lot of them or I am facing HA. I think the slingers are a bit too strong OR a bit to cheap and fast to construct of the amount of killing they do.

Here it is again advancing.
https://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g75/Neospartan/formation1a.jpg

What I don't like about is that it is SO LONG! Well, the large number of Gaellic units are to blame here.

I'll send clips of my 2nd most common used Gaellic battle formation.

Laman

04-12-2007, 07:47

Well one that I like to use with Bactria (and slightly altered with Pahlava for one the Pahlava variant uses more horsies (including horse archers)). Unfortunately it is only the most useful against poorly armored units, unsure how well it would be able to handle one of the Seleukid elite stacks.

It looks something like this:

pf : pantodapoi phalangitai
ea: eranshar arshtbara
tp: thanvare payadag
sc: skirmishing cav
gc: generals cav
mc: median medium cav or similar if I have gotten my hands on them

---sc
ea sc
ea ea
pf tp mc
pf tp gc
pf tp
ea ea
ea sc
---sc

I mostly just let the archer shoot the enemy to pieces. If needed i send the skirmisher cav to annoy the enemy. Works rather good against most armies I fight in the east.

Ower

04-12-2007, 12:05

In my Pahlava campain, the heart of my army are HA 2-3 unist and 1-2 FA + suport of some Persian/Mardian Archers :2-5 units, + 2-5 units of slingers. I dont know if it's just me, but my slingers are eficient, but if you compare man/kills then my slauther instruments are the HA, and rout instrument Archers whit fire. The reason is thet my AI, always tryes to face my slingers whit the phalanx, so they are more like a bait for the phalanx, while my HA and Archers, shoot or burn them from the rear, and to kill the enemz general.

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

04-12-2007, 20:31

Here is a Polybian Legion of mine deployed:
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4522/maa095lt1.jpg
It is the only era where my army is nearly deployed the way I want it at the start. I just have to move Triarii and Velites. I arrange them Velites, Hastati, Pricepes, Triarii, missiles, cavalry. As soon as the battle begins and I see the enemy's movement I move the cavalry to one or both flanks. If I'm expecting cavalry or a harder fight, I'll line them up in HPT lines rather than a grid. (Camilian is similar but I have to deploy it myself.)

Here is an Imperial Legion of mine:
https://img252.imageshack.us/img252/2082/maa098xr7.jpg
Since I'm fighting phalanxes, I lined up in a single line. If the enemy is smaller or more compact, I line up in two rows of five legionaries with the spearmen guarding the flanks of the second line. (I'm trying to replace all cavalry and missile allies with avxilia, but there is no cavalry avxilia in Persia.)

NeoSpartan

04-12-2007, 20:52

Dang that a load of Celtic clinger and archers u got there man.

Any particular reason why????

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

04-12-2007, 21:17

Dang that a load of Celtic clinger and archers u got there man.

Any particular reason why????
The slingers don't do a whole lot. (Many of my armies had eastern slingers which lacked the AP in 080.) And the archers, I got used to having four groups of 120 or 160 and when I got groups of 242 archers, I kept the same number of units.

There is a real anti-slinger ideal going around, but I use them. (Never more than 4 in an army though.)

Plus, now I'm fighting mostly Parthia. And they have archers, horse archers, and cataphracts (and randomly an army made entirely out of pantodapoi phalanxes). Their archers and horse archers always target my archers once in range and their cataphracts are impervious to any damage. (I had all 968 archers shoot all at once at a group of cataphracts and one horseman died.)

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

04-12-2007, 22:24

OK, here comes mighty Macedon - I just love those battle diagrams:

https://img184.imageshack.us/img184/1214/ebdiagrammdermakedoniscrb1.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

YES, I KNOW THAT R:TW BATTLES ARE LIMITED TO 20 UNITS; NOT 21! But I think the best approach to figure out the optimum battle deployment is first to think of what would be the best, and not what is possible. Then we can easily choose what unit we can leave at home without any major disadvantage.

Explanation of deployment:
The first line consists of Peltastai, usually Thracians. Next comes the main battle line, made up of four units of Pezhetairoi in the center, each 8 rows deep, guarded on the flanks by Thureophoroi. Next comes the reserve: Two units of pezhetairoi, usually weakened ones from previous battles; on the sides (dark blue with x-mark) some heavy assault infantry, usually Royal Guard; and in light blue, Agrianian assault troops. The fourth line is usually made up of two units of archers. At the rear end is the cavalry: On the flanks Prodromoi, usually Thracians again. Then, on the right wing, Thessalian nobility, and on the left wing, the Basileos or Strategos himself, accompanied with an additional unit of Hetairoi.

If confronted with a lot of archers, we should leave the skirmishers at home - they only take casualties before they could kill anybody and consequently rout without the possibility of prooving any worth of themselves.

Most likely, we do without one cavalry unit, either Thessalians or Hetairoi, because in most cases, three really heavy cavalry units will be enough.

The third possibility would be to leave one assault unit at home, most likely the Royal Guard, as theese don't grow on trees, and won't be very common in any army.

Tactical flexibility:
Thraikioi Peltastai can easily retreat after hurling their javelins, regroup behind the second line, and give additional flanking protection, as they are fairly good in melee too.

The first battle line is the main fighting force, doing most of the defensive work, also called the anvil. The Thureophoroi protect the flanks of the phalanx from enemy assaults.

The second battle line is really flexible. The two additional Pezhetairoi can easily extend the rather short main battle line, if the Strategos notices great amounts of enemy troops on one side. The battle line would be extended and formed like a bow then. The Agrianians and Pheraspidai can easily hurl their spears above the head of the main battle line, and afterwards, move to the flanks to attack the enemy there.

If the third line consists of Cretans as archers, these could be used in pitched battles to aide their comrades at the front, almost like the Thracian skirmishers.

The Prodromoi Cavalry plays a very important role, guarding the flanks, fending of enemy cavalry, and fighting enemy skirmishers or archers that were stupid enough to expose themselves on the field.

In an ideal battle, the heavy cavalry doesn't even go into action, because all the important work was already done by their comrades. But in most cases, their action is required to do some key maneuvers, as for example killing enemy bodyguard cavalry, or charging the strongest enemy phalanxes from the backside.

That's all. With these tactics, you can win against almost all kind of enemy armies. In my personal opinion, the tactical flexibility is unmatched.

Morte66

04-12-2007, 23:06

I make no particular attempt to play historically, though it happens at times.

The details change from faction to faction, but apart from pure cavalry stuff it's: stoppers in the middle, killers on the flanks, pin 'em and skin 'em.

Stoppers can be phalanxes or spearmen or heavy sword and shield types, whatever you've got. Their job is to fix the enemy's strong and dangerous side and avoid taking casulaties.

Killers are cavalry, slingers, close combat infantry etc. They kill the enemy, hitting them on their weak sides. They manoeuvre a lot more.

I like to have fast moving defensive troops (e.g. lighter spearmen) as reserves, since they can move quickly into position and then hold whatever's causing the problem. Heavy cavalry are also good reserves, since anything that has surprised you ought to either (a) be fast and therefore light or (b) have exposed its flanks by doing so.

If the enemy have lots of cavalry, spearmen may be redefined as killers and archers/slingers as bait. [There is a fine line between getting your slingers annihilated and offering bait. Just never show more bait than you have traps...]

I don't use javelin skirmishers, unless I need to kill elephants or whatever. Regular infantry can throw javelins just as well and fight a lot better. Slingers and archers carry way more ammo.

I will generally start with a formation like this... Heaviest stoppers in the middle, stretched thin for maximum frontage (I aim to destroy the enemy before they break). Reserves behind each end of the stoppers, so they can get anywhere quickly. Archers firing over one end of that line. Slingers tight on the ends for direct fire, ready to dart forward to flank or pull behind for safety. Cavalry out wide, getting lighter as you move out. Missile cavalry widest. General at the back.

Once the battle starts... Try to kill their more dangerous missile troops with cavalry before anything else happens. Then return the cavalry to the line and wait for flanking opportunities. Push missile cavalry very wide. Let the enemy come onto my stoppers, or take my stoppers to them. Once they're pinned, start flanking.

From there, no plan survives contact with the enemy. Adapt. Keep a secure shape (if thsi means half your line isn't fighting, fine) and look for chances to gain the initiative. Once you've got control of the battle, you can break your line and have idle stoppers act independently.

NeoSpartan

04-12-2007, 23:25

The slingers don't do a whole lot. (Many of my armies had eastern slingers which lacked the AP in 080.) And the archers, I got used to having four groups of 120 or 160 and when I got groups of 242 archers, I kept the same number of units.

There is a real anti-slinger ideal going around, but I use them. (Never more than 4 in an army though.)

Plus, now I'm fighting mostly Parthia. And they have archers, horse archers, and cataphracts (and randomly an army made entirely out of pantodapoi phalanxes). Their archers and horse archers always target my archers once in range and their cataphracts are impervious to any damage. (I had all 968 archers shoot all at once at a group of cataphracts and one horseman died.)

Well to be honest I like the ass kicking that the Slingers do. BUT since I am playing VH/M with the Aedui, I have too limit myslef in thier usage. As well as in the usage of terrian advantage. (Also, the AI really can't manage fatige and these Celtic slinger with thier long range make the AI run around too much. Eventhough I changed that, I don't feel like re-starting another campain with the Aedui). I should have played VH/H or H/H to dely the Roman advance for a few years. M is just too easy.

I am defetily with you on the usage of many Archers against Parthia and the like. U know what, u should bring in Celtic slinger from Gaul and have them shoot the Catapharcts.

Orb

04-12-2007, 23:42

My old Hayk 0.74 army composition in Asia Minor vs. KH:

2 x General
6 x Ayrudzi Netadzik (Armenian horse archers)
3 x Nhakararakan Aspet (Armenian cataphracts)
4-7 Galatian mercenary infantry (preferably Kluddolon, with some Enoci Curoas)

The fast, completely expendable Galatians would charge and pin one flank of the KH, while the Cats would then flank it, usually resulting in it breaking almost immediately. This turned into a chain rout, usually, with the HAs suppressing any damage, while slowly nailing the enemy general. In one battle I got 3,000 kills to 30, and after an enormous campaign, I finally defeated all the Hellenes of Asia Minor then naval-raped the Koinon heartland, before *really* turning on the Ptolemies and Seleucids.

When I was finally able to regroup against the damn Ptolemies, I ended up with
2 x Generals
6 x Zrahakir Netadzik (Armenian Cataphract Archers)
2 x Nhakararakan Aspet (Armenian Cataphracts)
10 x Merc Infantry

These basically functioned as my expensive version of my old army. Mercs pin, Cats flank and rout, Cat archers both prevent interception and can rout the rest of the line.

Owen the Mighty

04-13-2007, 01:23

Has anyone tried to use the "3 maniple line" formation for the Romans? (Where the front line fights for awhile, then falls back behind the third line of infantry, and then the second line takes on the role of the front line, and so on and so forth) I've seen the checkboard formation, but this maniple system seems hard to pull of the on the field. Just wondering if anyone has ever actually used it in battle...

Cataphract_Of_The_City

04-13-2007, 01:58

There was someone who did it although I remember him saying that he got more casualties than normal, which can be expected since the retreating units turn their backs.

When I use the manipular formation I let the enemy charge through the maniples. The ones who attack the second line through the gaps let a morale penalty for having enemies at their backs. I also leave enough distance between the lines to be able to flank any unit engaging a principes with my triarii. They rout fairly quickly which leaves the principes free to flank the enemy fighting the hastati, which at this time is usually hit on the back by my victorious cavalry. The hastati get a bigger beating but it is most of times low enough to not have to combine units after a big battle. 3 battles would be the limit for this I think.

@Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Why do you keep your reserve directing behing the first line? I can understand having a couple of units to plug gaps there but by putting your assault troops there increases the time they will have to move around the flank and assault the enemy. I never do that. I split my reserve (except gap-pluggers) between my flanks, putting them either in an oblique (away from the enemy) or column (fast to maneuver) formation. I usually split my cav (or reinforce one side) and to protect them I keep them right behind the two flank forces, read to either outflank enemy flankers or maneuver to attack the enemy flank.

MarcusAureliusAntoninus

04-13-2007, 04:13

I am defetily with you on the usage of many Archers against Parthia and the like. U know what, u should bring in Celtic slinger from Gaul and have them shoot the Catapharcts.
Yeah, since my campaign is still 080, I don't have any AP guys nearby (I might have added AP to eastern slingers a while back but haven't used them recently). Celtic slingers may be the second closest slingers to Persia that the Romans have.

Has anyone tried to use the "3 maniple line" formation for the Romans? (Where the front line fights for awhile, then falls back behind the third line of infantry, and then the second line takes on the role of the front line, and so on and so forth) I've seen the checkboard formation, but this maniple system seems hard to pull of the on the field. Just wondering if anyone has ever actually used it in battle...
I fought battles where the Hastati would fight, then when they need help I sent in the Pricepes, then if they needed help I sent in the Triarii. But I find that pulling guys out of a fight cost more casualties than if I have them fight while tired.

Fondor_Yards

04-13-2007, 05:41

Orb why didn't you use any of the good, new, armenian infantry?

Veris

04-13-2007, 06:52

Has anyone tried a historical Alexandrian formation (oblique line, hoplite/light inf flank guards, Hetairoi at the apex of the formation and all that jazz) with the correct units? I tried that a couple of times in MP and got my ass kicked. It is rather difficult to maneuver (especially if you want to attack in an angle) and the enemy even in SP is not very cooperative.

You must remember that it wasn't really a general use vs all formation but something he specifically adapted for in certain battles (iirc really only Gaugamela to that extent). His overall plan/tacitcs there were quite different than the other battles he fought due to necessity of facing vast numbers of cavalry. If you are having problems versus a Parthian force with many Grivpanvars for example, you might want to use something similar.

In general my Macedonian fights were something arranged like this (no slingers as was .80):
6-10 Pezhetairoi/Phalangitai Deuteroi
2-4 Argyraspidai
2-4 Agema troops
1-3 Agrianians
1-2 Hetairoi
1-4 Allied Cavalry
1-2 Light Cavalry
0-4 Light troops
0-4 Heavy Mercenary
1 General

P=Peltasts/Cretan Archers. Didn't really use other light troops.
P=Phalanx (Phalangitai Deuteroi/Pezhetairoi)
EP=Elite Phalanx (Argyraspidai at the end but Pezhetairoi in the start)
A=Agema (Hypaspistai and Pheraspidai were used interchangeably on the field). I used them pretty liberally, when I had tiny casualty rates these units often took the brunt of them aside from mercenaries.
AC=Allied Cavalry (Thessalonian/Thracian)
AR=Agrianians
C=Hetairoi
G=General
LC=Light cavalry. Skirmishers/Prodromoi
M= Heavy Mercenary

rough idea of a general formation. It's annoying to do so it's by no means accurate.

X X X X X X P X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X P
X AR X X X X X EP EP P P P P P P EP EP X X X X AR
X X X X X M M X X X X X X X X A X X X X A X A
X X X X X LC X AC X X X X X X G X X X X X X X X X X X X X X AC C

The above is only a general abstract and I rarely used something exactly or even close to like that. My usual plan, assuming roughly equal numbers, was to overload one side, typically where the enemy put their weakest troops, putting my Agema and best cavalry there, while using my mercenary, light infantry, and elite phalanx units to hold the other side. When outnumbered, I would either use oblique order Leuctra style (mainly against enemy phalanxes), or leave deliberate holes in the phalanx formation to bait the enemy to overextend themselves through them and get surrounded (in this I'd keep the majority of my non-Phalanx troops in reserve). My Macedonian strategy is mainly to achieve a breakthrough at any one point and force the rest (or both halves) of the line after breaking that point. It's not that easy to do in EB in anywhere but the flanks though, for the A.I is consistent enough not to leave a weak or overextended center or hinge unless you really bait them well.

Roman tactics seemed much simpler overall, although I have fought a fraction of the battles with them compared to the Maks. Due to much weaker cavalry (I typically employ maybe 1-2 besides the general to ensure strong pursuits and to prevent enemy cavalry from having free reign. Offensively they are pretty terrible for awhile), Roman strategy is more about outlasting then a quick success at one point and often times I will get a chain rout after awhile of fighting. Against non-Hellenic armies I will just make sure my units don't get flanked or cut off and make sure I have ample reserves to put in at any given moment of opportunity or crisis. Flanking, if done at all by the heavy infantry, is limited to 1-2 units as it doesn't produce nearly the effect as with other factions. The light infantry have an instrumental role of wing support from cavalry and harassing enemy reserves/flanks. The standard Hastati/Principe/Triarii three line doesn't work out too well in EB because there is no such thing as an orderly withdrawal. Either you rout or turn tail and get mauled from the back. It certainly is feasible to use Hastati/mercenaries as fodder and bait to let them force the enemy to expose themselves too far and then let your heavy infantry take advantage, but it isn't as good without good cavalry support and I don't like the higher than usual casualties it makes. Against Hellenic armies, the lines are strewn with holes and lengthened a bit, with the goal of disjointing the main center phalanx while defending against their superior cavalry/light infantry. If all goes well, the phalanx line will be pressured on both flanks and gaps will be present in many parts, leaving plenty of room for the Romans to flood in and force a rout.

Orb

04-13-2007, 14:37

Orb why didn't you use any of the good, new, armenian infantry?

Because it wasn't in 0.74 ;) If I had the luxury of decent Armenian infantry then, I would have used it.

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

04-13-2007, 20:44

@Centurio Nixalsverdrus

Why do you keep your reserve directing behing the first line? I can understand having a couple of units to plug gaps there but by putting your assault troops there increases the time they will have to move around the flank and assault the enemy. I never do that. I split my reserve (except gap-pluggers) between my flanks, putting them either in an oblique (away from the enemy) or column (fast to maneuver) formation. I usually split my cav (or reinforce one side) and to protect them I keep them right behind the two flank forces, read to either outflank enemy flankers or maneuver to attack the enemy flank.
The main battle line isn't very long, so the assault troops can be maneuvered easily to every point.

Note that the Agrianians are already at the flanks of the second line. They have almost no armour, and I don't want to expose them too much on missile fire, because they take great casualties then.

Putting the assault troops away from the main battle line just causes the enemy to split up, which I don't like. It produces more work for the general and the Agrianians are not really perfect for defensive work - they don't have a chance if a seleukid phalanx engages them frontally.

The heavy cavalry is protected by the three or four lines of infantry in front of them. It's not a big deal to move them around if necessary. The Thracians are at the flanks of course, and they are protected either by a hidden place, by speed or by their ferocious attack.

Owen the Mighty

04-15-2007, 03:23

Ya, I guess exposing you men's backs to the enemy really doesn't work in this game, but in real life, they would have been protected right away by the next line of infantry. (They sort of sample this in the TV series "Rome")

Hm. I wonder if there is a mod out there that changes the formations of Roman infantry according to what military reform they have had....that would be cool....(ow, I can barely write this, due to the massive welt on my wrist...gotta love paintball!)

NeoSpartan

04-15-2007, 04:03

.......gotta love paintball!)[/I]

oh yeah :thrasher:

The Celtic Viking

04-15-2007, 09:55

The Monkey on Formations:

I don't have any specific formation that I like the best, as I rather try and adapt to each situation as best I (or I should rather say, my general) can. How well I try to form it depends on the general - for example, for dull generals lacking in the tactics department, it's generally just a line and an order to "hack them dead". More so if the general also is a poor inf. general (as I never play eastern factions and always base my armies on infantry). Alternatively, if he's optimistic, I may try just putting the units out in a semi-random way, to simulate the odd chance that he might get hit by an idea. :stupido2:

That said, if a general gains a heroic victory, he may take a liking of the formation, and so use it again. Further, if generals are "schooled" (in this case meaning if they've fought under the command of another general in the same army) they might pick up tactics that they were schooled with (whether they are bad or good). Generals who have the trait "Warmonger" are prone to position themselves in the front line, cowardly generals try to keep out of battle as much as their cowardice allows them etc. Role play FTW.

The Monkey on Unit Composition:

The general decides here again, with the only restriction of no cavalry armies (again, I don't play eastern factions, basically because I can't handle horses well enough - and I've always preferred infantry anyway). How much cavalry I bring depends on my general's personal flavor - generally controlled by whether he is a good or bad cavalry commander. A good one brings more, of course, and my faction also plays a role in this.

The only fetish I have is that Skándza-Swaiut. If I can train 'em, I usually do and keep at least one of them in the starting army, if possible. I think it's a little nationalism shining through. Good thing they're quite good, too. :2thumbsup: For defensive armies I also use a lot of locals from around my empire, to simulate each village doing its part for the survival of the greater good.

I will try to take some screens from my Sweboz campaign soon to show how it may be.

Kugutsu

04-15-2007, 17:59

My favorite Casse army:

K K PN R R R R PN K K

K = Kluddargos
PN = Pictone Neitos
R = Rhycalaware

I know, they're all elites, and to be fair I rarely use this combo. Normally they are watered down with non-elites, and brought up to full strength to counter the german full-stacks, something like this:

------------------I I I I
----------K M M G G R G G M M K
-----T T-----------PN-----------T T

K = Kluddargos
PN = Pictone Neitos
R = Rhycalaware
I = Iosatae
M = Milnacht
G = Gaeliche
T = Taramonnes

The pictone are really only there to scare the enemy, and are generally run over to any weak spots, or to attack an enemy unit that really needs breaking. The Kluddargos (and to a lesser extent the Milnacht) are there to flank and carve up enemys with their awsome AP attack. The Taramonnes are there to run around behind the enemy line, chuck in javelins, and slaughter routing units. The Iosatae sling at the enemy as they approach, then retreat back and sling at any enemy reserves/ranged units over the heads of the melee.

Owen the Mighty

04-15-2007, 23:58

This is a modified version of that V-shaped formation that was posted earlier. It works quite well on the battlefield.

https://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rtwformationef2.png

Dyabedes of Aphrodisias

04-16-2007, 03:47

I'm playing as the Getai currently (their units are so badass).

I have my Thraikioi Peltastai in front. Then I have my Drapanai, which use their charge and warcry to disturb the enemy formations and kind of freak them out. Then I pull them out and let my heavy phalanxes take over from there and finish them off. All this while my elite archers supply a constant rain of flaming arrows from Hell from the back. My Prodromoi do their cavalry thing and do it well, and if need be my peltasts and my archers aren't too shabby at melee if I require them (I often assault walls just with my Thraikioi Peltastai).

Boyar Son

04-18-2007, 01:41

Owen the Mighty

04-18-2007, 01:57

No, no, I just re-arranged the formation that was metioned earlier on this thread, and made it my own. It is really hard to get all the units in the right place (and, of course, it only works if you have that exact unit roster)

The good thing about it is that the flanks of the pikemen are extremely beefed up with Heavy Cavalry and Spearmen, so when I do use it, I never worry about cavalry charges on my flanks, as my units will decimate them.

If you ever play with a Makedonian-esque army, you should try it out sometime. Quite fun!

Cataphract_Of_The_City

04-18-2007, 11:31

The main problem is the cav. If you win the cavalry battle it is much easier to defeat this formation. Pikemen on the flanks with a flank guard to hold of the assault inf, and in the center sword units with gaps. Otherwise known as a Roman legion with Greek allies. :P

ZaxStrife

04-18-2007, 13:48

interesting tactics ive seen:2thumbsup: a roman player i love heavey infantry and relie alot on them to get the job done.

1 Legion:
-General is a competent one with at least 3 abilities to boost military effectiveness
-4 hastati my core troops, at the front line to absorb and were out the enemy and pepper them wiht javilins
-3 principes 2nd line of my army to reinforce breaks and replace hastati units who are all but spent
-2 triarii elite unit and used when it all depends on this last ditch attempt to break or hold the line
2 cav units (anytype) flanking force used to break morale of the enemy and prevent flanking of other cav
2-4 mercs/allied state troops to fill the gaps such as archers slingers and flanking force

setup: my setup varies depending on what i face

for a heavey pike army like the mak's or AS a checkerboard formation i use

-------P P P
----T H H H H T
--C ---- G--------M M C

the idea of this setup is as the army goes towards me or vise versa the pike line usually breaks slightly through Ai or terrain i engage with javalins and charge my principe into the front gaps begin to form within a minute and i charge my hastati through the gaps without ordering to engage until they've wedge'd themselves between the pikeline and then attack while this goes on i flank with 1 unit of cav and my mercs on one side and cav on the other side
genreal only used in dire situations

for barbarian faction simple line defence with cav flanking force and defensive stance

-----HHHH
---C P P P C
-MM T T ---MM
-------G

Mordecai

04-23-2007, 18:29

A couple of Formations for my Seleucid armies:
Ther = Thureophoroi
Hyp = Hypaspistai
Pher = Pheraspidai
Thorak = Thorakitai
ThorakArg= Thorakitai Argyraspdai
Pez = Duh
Shipri = Shipri Tukul
Het = Hetaroi

Mobile Army

------Peltestai---------Peltestai----------
-Hyp---Ther---Ther---Ther---Ther---Hyp

Pher---Ther---Ther---Ther---Ther---Pher
-------Thorak----Thorak------Thorak-----Prodomoi-Prodomoi
-----------------General

A new army composition of mine inspired by the Romans to deal with the Gypos. Fast, hard hitting and a lot of javelins.

Royal Army

-ThorakArg-Argyra-Argyra-Pez--Pez--Pez--Kleurichikoi-ThorkArg-
--------------------------------------------------------------Shipri X2
-----------Syrian-Syrian-Syrian-Syrian-Syrian-Syrian-----------Het--Het
-----------------------General-General

My royal army raised to Destroy those guys in the south.
Tactics:
My royal army and provincial Phalanx armies use the standard anvil and hammer.
My mobile army is like a roman army in tactics. I march until the enemy is in range then throw my javelins. Rotating my first, second and third line to get them all off. If they engage then I throw all my men into them, while bringing my horses around to flank.

Spoofa

04-23-2007, 20:28

in my current romani campaign ive been using
1 rorarii
1 hastati
1 Principes
1 Triarii
1 leves
1 Equites Romani
1 general
1 allied infantry (usually samnite spearman)
and sometimes 1 acencii

I use the typical roman formation, checkerboard.

------A------
--------L-----------
xxxxx R xxxxx H xxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxx P xxxxxxxxxxx
xx S xxxxxxxxxxxxxx T xxx
xx G xxxxxxxxxxxxxx E xxx

i let my acencii skirmish with the enemy line until they get within reasonable javalin range then retreat them back inbetween my general and my equites
then i let my leves skirmish as well.
then the real fight begins, they get in range of my rorarii and hastati, they throw their javalins, and usually their center tends to spill inbetween my rorarii and hastati, and my principes throw their javalins, then engage the enemy, which closes up the gap, depending on how long their line is my samnites tend to throw them aswell, and then they engage. and my triarii tend to do the same. i usually hold my equites and general for the rout, to mop up the enemy, enless the need is dire and i have to send them to battle.
i try to use the formation and units CountArach uses in his AAR since it seems like a realistic approach, i find this formation and unit combination much much more exciting, realistic and overall more rewarding to use then only hastati/principes in my army.

Lovejoy

04-23-2007, 21:30

OK this is my roman setup:
1 rorarii(R)
1 hastati(H)
1 Principes(P)
1 Triarii(T)
1 leves(L)
1 Equites Romani(E)
1 general(G)
2 allied infantry(S) (samnite spearman)
1 acencii(A)

Formation:

_____L L L L L L_______

__SSSS HHHHH SSSS___

__AAAA PPPPPP RRRR__

_______TTTTT________ EEE

__GG________________

Nothing special. Works though. :yes:

EasternScourge

04-23-2007, 23:51

I was planning on doing a campaign as the Sabeans,and was wondering if you all could help me with figuring out some sort of basic army setup/composition.

Owen the Mighty

04-27-2007, 15:09

Well, after many battles with my Makedonians, I've lost all interest in their fighting style....so now I'm a traitor! I've switched over to the versatile Cathaginians!

After countless sieges, skirmishes and epic clashes, I've acquired an understanding of how to control the mighty Carthaginian armies. This is the formation I use to break large lines of infantry....or anything else!

Formation:

-L-----S----------S-----------S------L-
----------------------------------------
------------------EA-------------------
--------------LP--EA--LP---------------
----------LP--P--------P--LP------------
------LP-----------------------LP-------
---C-------------------------------C----
-C----------------C-------------------C-

LP = Liby-Phoenicians (great troops)
EA = Elite African Infantry (godly!)
P = Pikemen (anchors for my armies)
C = Cavalry (can also represent elephants)
S = Skirmishers (can also represent slingers)
L = Light Infantry (my favourite: Scutarii)

Tactics:

1. Skirmishers move forward with light infantry for support. They then harrass the enemy as my army moves forward. When a threat appears (i.e.enemy cavalry), the EAs move aside, and they fall in behind the "spearhead" of my army.
2. When the lines of infantry clash, I let the EAs work their wonders on the enemy centre, while the LPs move forward to form the front line. After a while, if the enemy is weakening, the LPs push further ahead in an effort to envelop the enemy.
3. At this time, the EAs are pretty tired, so I pull them back and have the Pikemen take on the center role. At the same time, my previous skirmishers and light infantry move around the front line, and start to harrass the enemy's flanks.
4. Finally, my glorious cavalry do their duty of smashing into the enemy's flanks. This usually ends the battle, but if the enemy remains, my LPs complete their enveloping of the enemy, and I bring th EAs back into the conflict to finish the job. Victory!

So there's my tactics for using the armies of Kart-Hadast! I hope Hannibal would be proud....

mucky305

04-30-2007, 18:05

I use the 3 line formation pretty regularly with defend on to maintain formation. Kind of looks like this

VVV SSS HHHHHHH HHHHHH SSS VVV
HHHHHHH HHHHHHH
PPPPPPP PPPPPPP
PPPPPPP PPPPPPP
TTTTTTT TTTTTTTT CCCCCCCCCC
TTTTTTT TTTTTTTT CCCCCCCCCC
RRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRR

The missiles troops are on skirmish and will harrass any flanking moves or head on advances (no nasty crushed skulls for the guys in my rear lines due to errant sling shot). The infantry serves as a pinning force. Front is always kept three deep. Any overlap on the Hastati is confronted by advancing principes with the missile troops falling back at will. I don't ever withdraw troops engaged. I just try to ensure that in case one unit routs, there is a unit of fresh troops behind them to cover retreat and regrouping efforts and to prevent the 'rundown' in routs that leads to so many casulties. If the first two lines break the Triarii move up and immediately re-engage the enemy. Cav is the flanking force and if need be the rearguard in the case of a complete rout.

ok that doesn't look right

Tristuskhan

04-30-2007, 23:31

Hey lords, you're all tremendously rich, it seems... It's -208 in my Sauromatian campaign and I'm still definitely unable to afford the armies I'd love to see. I have a foot (at last!) in Northern Greece and I can hire a bit of Phalanx mercenaries, so I'm gonna think of what my army could look like in the future..

So: General, one Roxolani Nobles.

Two Aorsi Nobles.

Four Aorsi Riders

The rest beeing crappy infantery (Sarmatian light spearmen, baltic light infantery... life expectancy: horribly short), two or three archers (Scythian, Sarmantian, Persian, whatever...)

Ezephkiel

05-11-2007, 17:55

Ive been playing as the greeks, and although most of my armies are whatever units i've got handy, that I can throw together, i've been using the classic greek formations used in the peloponessian war and before.

Basically I overload my right flank with my strongest hoplites, engage the enemy, gamble on the left holding out long enough for the right to win and wrap around.

Its probably not that clever, but its fun. Usually have my general and any spartans on the right, then my Classicals and Mercenary hoplites, then usually levy hoplites. 50% of my force is usually light skirmisher units aswell, which litterally surround my hoplites and move all over the place, engaging, feinting and pestering the enemy.

Any cavalry I have usually sits on the right, although I might move it to the centre so it can respond quicker to both flanks.

CH - Classic Hoplites
SP - Spartans
LH - Levy Hoplites
SK - Skirmishers
A - Archers
C - Cavalry
G - General

-------SK-------SK--------SK-------SK-----------
--SK----LH-LH-CH-CH-CH-CH-SP-SP-G---SK-------
------------A--------A--------A------------------
-------------C-----------C-----------------------

Thats presuming its a full army and i'm able to get what i want, usually its a load of worn out trash thrown together.

Also, the way the AI advances when im defending usually throws it compeltely out.

Zafersan

05-12-2007, 02:55

Wish I knew how to put pictures in posts. I have some mad formations that I still haven't seen anyone post on these boards.

Chirurgeon

05-13-2007, 23:56

I use that technique often. I have my front line (samnites or some other local troops hold as long as possible before they break i move them behind triarii. The moment i do this i set the hastati line to fire at will. As soon as the enemy chases the retreating first line the hastati fills their faces with Pila. its cool to watch the men retreat and the hastati actually make holes for the retreating men and then reform. When the hastati get worn down or get tired i do the same thing. I order them to line up behind the samnites or whatever and set the principe to fire at will as the line moves to the rear. Once again the enemy tries to chase the fleeing hastatin and ends up looking like a pincushion from all the pila being fired. The enemy runs headlong into the princepe which are completely fresh and the enemy is completely exhausted. Most enemies have had enough at this point and head for the hills. If there are any enemies left they are usually shaken or wavering, I will send in my first line again to demoralize them. if that doesnt work then i send in the hastati which have been resting. if that fails I throw the triarii into the fray. And if that doesnt work well...at least i beat up the enemy real good. Ive got some video clips of my battles in my AAR, the puniceus paludamentum. My sig has a link to it.

Chirurgeon

05-14-2007, 00:04

Oh the concern about taking alot of casualties doesnt seem to be a real issue when withdrawing. It seems to take the AI a little bit of time to figure out why the unit is leaving. Just enough time to get most men through. The way i see it is that your going to have alot more deaths if you let them rout. Sometimes one of the four front line units will rout but most of the time they make it safely to the back of the army.

Watchman

05-14-2007, 14:13

I've noticed the same, althought mostly when trying to assasinate mounted enemy general without enough troops to completely surround them and therefore block their movements. Even in cavalry fights it seems if the other unit suddenly makes an about-face and speeds off the other side spends a few moments gathering its wits (and trying to kill stragglers) and thus can't mount an immediate and effective pursuit. I've done that too in horse fights, and it usually works well. Have yet to try it with infantry though.

The Errant

05-26-2007, 13:01

https://img517.imageshack.us/img517/425/mediumstackqy3.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Medium heavy Epirote stack. Good for just about anything. The Katapeltikai outrange HA so I can use this stack against Armenian and Parthian armies when needed.
I use a heavy stack too where the four Phalangitai Deuteroi are replaced with Pezhatairoi and the two Pezhatairoi are replaced with Chaeonion Agema.
The Classical Hoplites are replaced with Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi. The standard Prodromoi with Thrakioi Prodromoi. The Peltastai with Thakioi Peltastai and one Sphendonetai gets replaced with Thessalian Heavy Cavalry or another unit of Thrakioi Prodromoi.

I use the classical Hammer and Anvil. The Phalangites hold the line while the Cavalry run and charge in the back. The medium cavalry deals with pesky enemy cavalry leaving me free to act against the flanks and rear. They also chase down routed units.
The Elephants are used for flanking and rear attacks against the strongest enemy infantry once the Prodromoi have dealt with enemy skirmishers.
Gaps in the line are plugged, either using the Classical Hoplites or the Illyrian Thorakitai. The Agrinians make excellent assault infantry for flanking. Those AP axes really hurt even heavily armored enemy units.
Peltastai deal with enemy skirmishers well enough. The Thracian variant doubles as very competent assault infantry when needed.
Slingers can move and give supporting fire from an exposed angle. The Katapeltikai can also use flaming ammo against wavering enemy units.
Most infantry based armies don't stand a chance. Full or almost full HA stacks require a different approach in open battle. And a different unit composition.

Standard formation:

----------------------Peltastai/TP-----Peltastai/TP-----------------------

--------------------------Sp-------------Sp-----------------------------

------------PD/Pez-PD/Pez-Pez/CA-Pez/CA-PD/Pez-PD/Pez----------------

Prod/TP---Hop/IT--------------Katapeltikai-----------Hop/IT---Prod/TP---

Thes/TP---Agr--------------------------------------Agr----GB----EI/EKI-

Tiberius of the Drake

05-26-2007, 21:31

Ive been playing a Romani campaign on v.80 recently and my composition of a Camillan Legion is ....

2x ascensi
2x Roarii (replaced by Samnites whenever possible)
or
2x Leves.(see above)

4x Hastatii
4x Principes
4x Triarii
2x Equites (or allied medium/heavy cavalry)
1x General

my for mation is line up like so

----------A--------------A-------------
--------R------------------R-----------

E-------H-----H--------H--------H----------E
T---------P------P---------P------P--------T---
-------------T------G---------T----------------

This is my Normal legion. For a cavlary legion i substitute ascensi for Misslie cavalry and Roarii/leves for medium/heavy cavalry.

darkangel87

06-29-2007, 11:35

I´m playing with the Carthagians and I´m currently at war with the Romans on both the Iberian and Italian peninsula and with the Ptolemaioi in Egypt.

My army compositions are as follows:

1) Army on the Iberian peninsula:
1 General
1 Iberi Lanceari (Iberian Heavy Cav.)
3 Iberi Curisi (Iberian Medium Cav,)
3 Iberi Equites Castrati (Iberian Light Cav.)
4 Scortamareva (Lusotannan Medium Spearmen)
3 Dorkei Hatkafa Ibeerim (Iberian Assault Infantry)
2 Balearic Slingers
3 Cretan Archers

2) Army on the Italian peninsula
2 Generals
5 Liby-Phoenician Heavy Infantry
3 Elite African (Assault) Infantry (Dorkim Aloopim)
2 Thrakioi Peltastai (Thracian Medium Skirmishers)
3 Cretan Archers
1 Sacred Band Cavalry
1 Thessalian Heavy Cavalry
1 Thracian Medium Cavalry
1 Greek Medium Cavalry
1 Carthagian Citizen Cavalry

3) Army in Egypt
1 General
1 Sacred Band Cavalry
2 Carthagian Citizen Cavalry
2 Greek Medium Cavalry
5 Anatim Aloopim (Elite African Pikemen)
3 Dorkim Aloopim (Elite African Infantry)
3 Numidian (Skirmisher) Cavalry
3 Cretan Archers

My 45 settlements are occupied by my cheapest troops, namely Poeni Citizen Militia or Iberi Milites (2-5 units per town, depending on the extent and the discontent of the settlement).

I´m in the year 215 BC and fought over 200 battles so far… without loosing a single engagement !!!
Typically, I hold the line in the center with my Spearmen or Pikemen, thining out the enemy with my Archers in the center and my skirmishers on one flank.
In the accurate moment I attack the flank which is not annoyed by my skirmishers with my assault infantry and, after destroying the enemy´s rear-guarding units with my strong cavalry arm, attack the enemy´s rear concurrently with 500-600 cavalrymen.
Yesterday I wiped out over 4000 Romans with 1800 men, suffering a mere 126 casualities.

Best regards,
Marcel

Ignopotens

06-29-2007, 14:37

Currently I'm playing as the Getai. Normally I use something like this.

________PP________
_HA__DrSkSkDr__HA_
__DR___SlSl___Dr___
________G_________

or

__________PP___________
HAHA___SkSlSlSk____HAHA
____DrDr_________DrDr____
___________G____________

P = Getai Phalanx (or Hoplites or Celtic spearmen)
HA = Horse Archers
Dr = Drapanai (or Galatian Swordsmen)
Sk = Getai Skirmishers
Sl = Slingers or Archers
G = General

This is usually when the battle is almost joined. Early on I'd have the slingers out front harassing them, and the Horse Archers riding around them shooting arrows into their backs. The Drapanai I have to try to keep back until I need them due to their vulnerability to ranged weapons. The Getai skirmishers I use probably more in melee combat than ranged, because they have only 2 volleys worth of javelins, and they're quite good at melee anyway. I also don't use many phalanx or spear units normally because I prefer to be offensive in nature, and the phalanxes are too slow and generally too expensive (comparatively).

Tiberius of the Drake

06-29-2007, 16:12

N.B This army is very costly and takes very long to recruit between building up Bocchoris and actually recruiting.

This is an army that Ive developed for my .81v2 campaign.Evrything was recurited on the island of Bocchoris exccept the cavalry.

1x general
4x Baleric slingers
4x Baleric light infantry
4x liby-phonecian infantry(spearmen)
2x Heavy liby-phonecian infantry
2xiberes equites castrati
2x carthaginian citizen cavalry
1x Sacred band cavalry

Ive foun that this army works well against the lusotannons(bad spelling), the gallic tribes and it is able to go toe to toe with the romans. The only group that I havent tried this army out against is the sucessors/greeks and the eastern kingdoms such as armenia and saka.

I usually use the formation as such

--------------BS----------BL-----------BS------------BL-------------------
---------IE------BS-----------BL------------BS------------BL----------IE---------

----------CCC-----LP------LP---------LP----------LP--------------CCC---------
---------------HLP-----------------------------------HLP----------------------
----------------------------------G------------------------SBC

BS=baleric slinger
BL=Baleric light infantry
LP-Liby-phonecian infantry
HLP=Heavy Liby Phonecian
IE=Iberes equites castrati
CCC= Carthaginian citizen cavalry
SBC= Sacred Bnad cavalry

Ive found this army and formation to be very effective for a mid to late game carthaginian army when youll actually have the funds for it.

Olaf The Great

06-29-2007, 21:16

Ahem...

MASS....CALVARY.....ARCHERS

billy bob

06-30-2007, 02:10

Caesar89

07-17-2007, 03:34

My first campaign on EB as Romans, only had to alter the formations and tactics of my legions twice; Standard (Anti-Babarian) Legion and Layered (Anti-Phalanx) Legion.

STANDARD LEGION
http://https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/6906/barblegion1ew9.th.png (https://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=barblegion1ew9.png)
All units on fire at will. Hastati first to make contact followed later by the Principles when H. become too pressured. Trarii and Elites stop any flankin manouvers by enemy infantry then move to box in opposing force in preparation of cavalry charge from the rear. General Supports whichever flank is under the most pressure.

Layered Legion
http://<a href="https://img182.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maklegionhs3.png" target="_blank"><img src="https://img182.imageshack.us/img182/590/maklegionhs3.th.png" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>
Each different type of unit a little bit behind the one in front to allow for easier surrounding manouvers and isolating phalanx units. once all units are engaged slingers rush behind enemy and pepper them before cavalry return to start a full scale rout.

Owen the Mighty

07-18-2007, 05:11

For the Romans, I use this site to base my full stacks, or legions, around:

http://www.roman-empire.net/army/army.html

If I have the resources, my legions usually follow these guidelines:

Camillian Legion

-4 Hastati
-4 Principes
-4 Leves
-1 Triarii
-1 Rorarii
-1 Accensi
-1 General
-2 Cavalry (possibly mercenary, depending on location)
-2 Mercenary/Italic Isles troops (depending on location)

Polybian Legion

-4 Hastati
-4 Principes
-4 Velites
-3 Triarii
-1 General
-2 Cavalry (possibly mercenary, depending on location)
-2 Mercenary/Italic Isles troops (depending on location)

Marian Legion

-9 Legionary Cohorts
-1 Veteran Cohort (representing the First Cohort, since I don't have that mod)
-1 General
-5 Mercenary troops (from where the legion fights the most)
-4 Cavalry (possibly mercenary, depending on location)

Augustan Legion

-10 Legionary Cohorts (one representing the First Cohort)
-1 Praetorian Guard
-1 General
-4 Cavalry (possibly mercenary, depending on location)
-4 Mercenary troops (from where the legion fights the most)

helenos aiakides

07-19-2007, 10:33

What is the best way to destroy/route a phalanx

Ignopotens

07-19-2007, 14:22

use some spearmen/pikemen of your own to pin it down, then hit it in the rear with assault troops or cavalry charges

or alternating cav charges from the exposed side

Pius Curus

08-09-2007, 09:15

Hi all, here I my formations for playing as SPQR - Polybian reforms. I use more battle groups (Roman numbers) , than are my field manoeuvres more flexible.

http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/9/8/9/f_1m_deeb37f.jpg
http://img40.picoodle.com/img/img40/9/8/9/f_2m_4558296.jpg
http://img29.picoodle.com/img/img29/9/8/9/f_3m_f532ff4.jpg
http://img39.picoodle.com/img/img39/9/8/9/f_4m_b093b85.jpg

innocex

08-09-2007, 14:22

This is a modified version of that V-shaped formation that was posted earlier. It works quite well on the battlefield.

https://img248.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rtwformationef2.png

its a good formation for protecting the flanks, but if any heavy cavalry/assualt inf. can quickly pierce your central line, you will be divided in 2 before you can try to surround the attackers.

innocex

08-09-2007, 14:35

A basic battle plan that is enormously effective against AI armies. Not too good against a patient human. I used it to defeat an army of 700-800 Eastern Infantry with around 100 hoplites, 60 archers, and 40 cavalry. They lost around 600 men and I lost around 40. Basically

xxxx____________________
xxx/*^^^^^^^^^^^^^*\
xx/^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^\
x/xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx\
x<xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
x<xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

The straight lines are pike men, the asterisks are heavy skirmisher infantry , the ^s are missile units, and the <s & >s are cavalry to sweep around and flank. The x's are placeholders.

Essentially you let the enemy charge into your main front and sweep around with the cavalry and side guards to flank the enemy. Then when they run you simply go out of phalanx and chase them down.

this is a really good plan for not only hellinistic armies, but also eastern armies. if you can get a decent spearman front with the pick of the eastern litter, imagine if you have cataphrats patroling the sides of such a formation. they would beat any cav. and while everyone is bogged down in the middle of the battle with the phalanx/spears , they could charge in the enemies flank.
i basically do this same formation, but with a few more archers to weaken the advancing army and some swordsmen to react to emergencies in the spear wall.
it can also work against some patient humans who dont rush in, if you know enough of the hotkeys to advance the army in formation. the spearman on the left and right sides face front during the forward march, but if you can focus on getting them ready for flank attacks quickly, you will be fine.

Long lost Caesar

08-20-2007, 02:35

since i can only train my assault armies (italian troops trained in italy) in italy and then have to campaign across the globe with them i always go for 20 units for maximum numbers. this way if units are badly hit i can send then back for refitting whilst fighting on with the main army. ANYWAY.

Current armies (polybian reform)

3 velites
4 equites
1 general
5 principes
5triarii
2 spare units of random choice (usually pedites extrodinarii)

layout and battleplan

all infantry into one group and form two lines, spearmen at front, infantry at back with fire at will on to allow time to throw missiles. velites stand behind the first line with skirmish off, so they can continue to pummel the enemy with javelins even when the fighting starts (provided the line holds...always does)
cavalry are placed behind the lines on either flank (2 on each) and are used to rout and chase down the enemy attacking the spearmen. once the main wave of enemy attack breaks my entire army surges forward, the fresh swordsmen pushing ahead of the triarii, running down the cowards and smashing any resistance in their way (supported, of course, by the cavalry) if deployed as far back as possible, this tactic allows me to completely destroy enemy armies, once killed an army of 4,000 fresh aedui troops with my one of my much weaker, war torn legions. not one of the aedui lived to tell the tale.:oops:

Thaatu

08-20-2007, 09:34

The following illustration explains my default Aedui tactics:

https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8755/complextacticskw7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Centurio Nixalsverdrus

08-20-2007, 20:02

The following illustration explains my default Aedui tactics:

https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8755/complextacticskw7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
A sophisticated plan of a great mind. Only the best of the elite of the warchiefs of Great Gaul can think of such ingenious masterpieces of strategy.

Spoofa

08-20-2007, 20:15

rofl

KuKulzA

08-20-2007, 20:30

The following illustration explains my default Aedui tactics:

https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8755/complextacticskw7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

WE HAVE A WINNER!!!!

this strategy =
scared Romans vs. Charging Gauls
:surrender2: vs. :viking::smash::charge:

Basileus Seleukeia

08-20-2007, 20:44

That green blob of skull-smashing savages and their tactic somehow remind me of the warhammer orks.... Looks like they have a lot of things in common :laugh4:

Rundownloser

08-21-2007, 23:59

That green blob of skull-smashing savages and their tactic somehow remind me of the warhammer orks.... Looks like they have a lot of things in common :laugh4:
With the unfortunate and distinct lack of Night Gobbo Fanatics. They'd fit in perfect with the Celts!:laugh4:

Wolfman

08-22-2007, 00:09

No wonder Vercingetorix surrendered

Aut Nihil

08-22-2007, 08:03

Currently playing with the Getai and as i've only encountered greek opponents so far this setup is completely based fighting phalanxes and similar units.

Dr__Dr__Dr__Dr__Dr__HH__HH__HH__HH__Dr__Dr__Dr__Dr__Dr__Dr

________Kom_________________________________Kom________

________KS___________________________________KS________

__________________________GR___________________________

Dr = Drapanai
HH = Hoplitai Haplo
Kom = Komatai
KS = Komatai Sphendonetai
GR = General

The idea after this setup is quite simple, till thus far the enemy units have gone straight to my center so I decided to put some cheap, easily trained units there to take hold the line. Afterwards I try to outflank the enemy and go from a straight line into a circle formation, thus trapping the enemy units inside and slaughter them. Phalanxes are good when they're attacked face on, but when theyre being hacked at by all sides their numbers drop dramatically in a VERY short time :2thumbsup: .

I have been on a rampage since the start of the campaign with the goal of removing three of the best factions from the game before they grow and become unstoppable.

The first to be removed from Greece were the Macedonians who are reduced to 1 city in Asia Minor now "Pergamon". Secondly i turned on the Epeirots, they have 1 city left in Italy "Taras?" and finally I decimated Koinon helenon by capturing the south of Greece and when I conquered "Chalkis" I killed their last general and familymember so they were erased from time :laugh4:

Now I have the north completely to my own with all rebel provinces, I have sauromatea to the east, still in their starting position. I also have Pontos in Byzantium, trying to get a foothold in Europe and the Romans to the west slowly conquering Italy and Gaul. The biggest surprise for me is that Seleucia has broken the back of the Ptolemai and are knocking on Alexandrie's walls.

Thaatu

08-22-2007, 09:56

No wonder Vercingetorix surrendered
Infact I only use that "tactic" with my current faction leader, who happens to be a berserker, a champion and a complete loon. When attacking he has command 10 and gives a morale bonus of +12. That, plus the men under him are greatly more experienced then whoever the enemy might be. Thus I can safely say that the horde attack works. I have other generals who make more use of ambush and reserve tactics.

Pius Curus

08-23-2007, 09:49

One of Consular Army (after Polybian reform) tactics

Now I play SPQR on H/H for more fun and longer time battles, primary I use easy tactics without special idea, which was standardly used by SPQR. It is tactics for exhaustion of the centre of enemy line. First line hastati, second line principes, 3 line triarii, equites on the flanks. In history only smartie as Scipio Africanus, etc. used "genial" tactics maneuvers by using triarii as flankes, etc.

I would like to show you one of my tactics which looks fine one the paper, looks fine on the battle map but I sweat like a pig to do it right because it needs meny commands in right time.

1. Phase
- all army move forvard right
- I. group (left flank) is united with the centre battle group II. into battle grou II.
- III. group (right flank)
- IV. group (reserves)
- V. and VI. group (light units)
- VIII. and IX. group (equites)

2. Phase
- VI. group provokes the enemy and allures him to left
- II. group is unrolled to left and down to extend the battle line by using key(+)
- III. and IV. group start the flank maneuver and move forward

3. Phase
- young tribun from IX. group is trying to make brak-trough or lead the attack of cavalery with support of velites on the back of enemy horde.

PS: Sorry of my english.

http://img34.picoodle.com/img/img34/9/8/23/f_Formace1m_308ae38.jpg

Chirurgeon

08-23-2007, 22:31

The following illustration explains my default Aedui tactics:

https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8755/complextacticskw7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

You know that has to be incredible when all those celts hit the Roman lines simultaneously. Just imagine for a minute that your on the front line of the Romans when that happens. Terror doesn't do that sensation justice. I mean come on if your the guy in the front row you pretty much know your dead. My favorite battles are where the infantry lines run at each other full speed and they not only meet head on but they actually begin mixing together because of their momentum. I dont see that too often in my battles but its cool when it happens.

your tactic reminds me of this old game i used to play called "Legion". kinda like RTW but you give your orders before the battle commences and once the battle starts its like a script. Pretty cool because you have to predict what the enemy might do and try to counter it. Usually you wind up having the two armies run into each other at full speed. Its like watching two locomotives crash into each other.

KuKulzA

08-24-2007, 23:41

You know that has to be incredible when all those celts hit the Roman lines simultaneously. Just imagine for a minute that your on the front line of the Romans when that happens. Terror doesn't do that sensation justice. I mean come on if your the guy in the front row you pretty much know your dead. My favorite battles are where the infantry lines run at each other full speed and they not only meet head on but they actually begin mixing together because of their momentum. I dont see that too often in my battles but its cool when it happens.

I know what your sayin... as Getai once, late game, i was at war with Sweboz...

crazy with my Thraikioi Peltasti and Drapnai and their germanic units rushing into each other it was the epitome of the barbaric charge

I won though, snuck some tarabostes towards the rear and cut a path through their clubmen, which caused their center to begin routing... and I kill a lot of the fleeing guys cause they were tangled in with mine :laugh4:

Chirurgeon

08-25-2007, 04:26

I know what your sayin... as Getai once, late game, i was at war with Sweboz...

crazy with my Thraikioi Peltasti and Drapnai and their germanic units rushing into each other it was the epitome of the barbaric charge

I won though, snuck some tarabostes towards the rear and cut a path through their clubmen, which caused their center to begin routing... and I kill a lot of the fleeing guys cause they were tangled in with mine :laugh4:

makes me want to play a barbarian faction sometime...

Wolfman

08-25-2007, 19:36

I always play the Getai:2thumbsup:Casse, Luso, Sweboz come after in terms of barbarians

KuKulzA

08-25-2007, 20:43

I almost always play these factions...
Getai, Saruomatae, Saka Rauka, Lusotanna, Sab'yn, or Safot Softim biQarthadast

Getai are pretty well-rounded but they don't have any super-elite units that'll let you crush everybody, and their better units you'll need to pay accordingly for... and while it seems a little annoying that the general is a cavalry-archer, thats just part of the greatness of the Getai army...
while Arvenai, Aedui, Casse, and Sweboz lack a lot of great cavalry... Getai has skirmisher cavalry, charging cavalry, and horse-archers
those same barbarian factions have good shock infantry... but the Getai have the Drapnai (sp?) which if properly used will break most folks
Hellenics have hoplites and phalanxes...but the Getai have light and heavy phalangites as well
Romans have flexible troops...but the Thraikioi Peltasti can go toe-to-toe (until after Marian, then you better be ready)

a seasoned Getai army is awesome, and you can have so much variety...
personally I use mostly Draparai (sp?), Thraikioi peltasti, and horse-archers
shock infantry and phalanxes on the flanks to enclose and break the enemy, heavy peltasti to hold the line and give them hell, and cavalry archers to go around back and nail them with arrows...

Lusotanna are similar in their balanced armies and decent basic units, only thing being that they don't field the cavalry-archer types... not that their excellent charging cavalry doesn't make up for it.

but I say just try them all a lil and see which you like best

innocex

08-28-2007, 20:09

great set up pius, one of the best i have ever seen

Sygrod

09-18-2007, 12:50

My 2c worth:

My armies concentrate on cheap missile troops.
Eastern slingers give a good account of themselves at a distance. I try to have at least half the army comprised of the slingers, then 1-3 phalanxes, a couple of more mobile infantry and a couple of cavalry units, plus whatever else is available.

Slingers are the main effort. The pound the enemy missile troops first, then heavy infantry or advancing skirmishers. 4-5 slinger units will ruin an advancing skirmisher unit before it gets within range to throw javelins. Phalanxes will only be pelted if they are not in formation.

If the enemy manages to get a unit within striking range, I make sure they get stuck on a phalanx unit. It changes their mind a bit. If they persist, I send a slinger unit around and hit them from the side. Mobile infantry will do the same job. Once a unit breaks, I send a cavalry unit after it, while re-directing my slingers to more stubborn targets.

When an enemy army lays siege on a town, I line up the slingers so that they can have a go at the enemy utits while they regroup. Usually, the cavalry is sent out to try to destroy enemy missile units as they are running to a new location. When the enemy army is out of range, I regroup the army outside and apply the same tactics as mentioned above.

NeoSpartan

09-18-2007, 22:15

The following illustration explains my default Aedui tactics:

https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8755/complextacticskw7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Put Gaestae in the front, and some Carnute Singetos in the middle doing their "chanting", a couple of Neitos in the back just in case.....
And you have yourself an INSTANT rout on the enemies side. :smash:

quackingduck

10-06-2007, 08:45

so far i fight my battles like so:

1) deploy the most sensible front line (pikemen in middle, assault inf on side or w/e)

2) depoy missle units and calvary in a sensible way behind front line

3) wait until front line has engaged enemy

4) flank

5) make sure to kill the enemy general and chase down all fleeing enemies

runes

10-14-2007, 05:57

most people form their front lines with weaker troops, i do the opposite. i make my front line my best infantry (so they get big kills and lots of chevrons) with the hopes that they will hold while i use supporting troops to flank. i rely heavily on skirms/slingers to pester flanks while lighter/quick/good charge infantry charges the lines that my solid roman line is holding. i do alot of cycling of troops, where i send units with casualties and experience back to rome to train and send in fresh troops. lots of movement.

my cavalry is more of distraction as i rely on my solid front line, and my general who rides with another unit does alot of fighting.

https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/2060/army1ij3.jpg
https://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5946/army2gg4.jpg

1) optimal army

1- pedites extraordinarii

2- lesser roman infantry, usually leftover principes. sometimes green extraordinarii.

these provide forward support if the momentum is lost and (1) wavers, and the unit on the flank moves outwards while the inner most moves up.

or they move in to form a longer main battle line if need be

or, they simply move up and out to creat3 a solid flanking move

3- triarii or mercs. used as spear line, move forward to provide support as line 1 falls back in case of heavy cav charge. held in reserve if not needed.

4- these are generally fast assault infantry, usually celtic swordsman. something with a solid charge i can flank or gain the rear with and do the old "hammer and anvil"

5- skirmishers. usually slingers (ascensii, celtic slingers etc)

once battle is engaged they sweep down and out to pelt from the flanks.

6- equites or mercs, the left most is more of a diversion. and is sometimes a double stack of barbarian light cavalry.

7- general unit acompanied by cavalry (good for distractions so i can charge the general freely)

similarly stack 2 is my more "assault" army and is very similar, where 2 is usually green troops/mercs who either umbrella out to support or flank or simply create the second line if 1 falls.

runes

10-14-2007, 05:59

also note that i group my units in to twos. i find this the most flexible. as on the sort of micro fronts one can move while the other fights/etc.

Antiochus Eupator

10-14-2007, 06:34

My battle formation:

1st line: Phalangites and peltast on the flanks

2nd line: flexible swordsmen or spearmen as reserves or outflanking forces.

3rd line: archers and slingers

4th line: General unit and cavalry

My tactic: I first send my cavalry and peltast toward the enemy cavalry and as soon as the enemy cavalry get in range i pull my cavalry outand let th peltast take care fo the enemy cavary and while my phlangites hold the enemy I send my reserves and cavalry to outflank them and that usually wins the battle but heres the outline to better understand it:

P=Phalngite (6 phalangite)
R=Reserves ( 2 or 3 reserves)
S=Peltast ( 2 peltast)
A=Archers ( 1 or 2 archers)
C=Cavalry (2 cavalry)
G=General
ss pppppppppppppppp ss
rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
AA
C G C

I use this tactic to quickly outflank my enemy so the battle is not long and drawn out.

Renegen

10-15-2007, 04:40

I'm playing as the Getai and right now I'm fighting Celts, Thracians and Gauls.

My formation is simple but very good.

I have about:
6-7 Dacian Falx Infantry
6-7 Costobocii Axemen
Some archers, 2-4
Some Dacian Phalanx in the middle (optional)
Skirmishers(really optional, I don't use them)

The tactic is this, put the axemen in the first row of melee to act as shields and throw the Falx Infantry charging at the busy enemy. Use Phalanx in the middle of your army to act as a solid defensive wall to your formation, to kill even faster and against cavalry.

The formation looks like a 2 row rome legion formation.

......----.....----.....----.....---------------.....----.....----.....----......
......----.....----.....----.....---------------.....----.....----.....----......
................................................................................................
................................................................................................
.----.....----.....----.....----...---------....----.....----.....----.....----.
.----.....----.....----.....----...---------....----.....----.....----.....----.
Also bring 1-2 units of heavy cavalry for attacking archers or fleeing units.

row 1: Axemen, or later on, heavily armored units.
Phalanx

row 2: Falx Infantry, who have low armor but good charging attack(and armor piercing)
Archers, they use fire arrows most of the time.

The formation would work equally well against a phalanx army, although the tactics would change. Horse archers? I dunno.

Cheexsta

10-20-2007, 08:13

A massive defeat (on VH/VH) prompted me to change my Romani tactics somewhat. I typically deployed in a three-line infantry formation, plus Accensi and Leves at the front (so 4-5 lines, really) and cavalry on the flanks. I found all too often that the Carthaginian enemies I was facing were decimating my infantry with their javelins before charging in and ripping me to pieces. So Cn. Cornelius Scipio Asina sailed back to Iberia with a fresh army and Consular imperium to try out a new tactic...and it worked.

[----Skirmishers][Skirmishers----]
[Alae] [Hastati] [Alae]
[Alae] [Principes] [Alae]
[Alae Cavalry] [Triarii][Rorarii] [Roman Cavalry]
[General]

The skirmisher line was placed in a long, loose formation, with Guard Mode and Fire At Will on but Skirmish mode off. The enemy charged my skirmishers and got bogged down in combat with them before my front line of infantry charged through the skirmisher formation. The skirmishers fell back once the infantry were engaged and threw the last of their javelins at the enemies.

In the end, the heavy infantry was largely unhurt but my skirmishers and cavalry took quite a hit. No biggy - those are easy to find, and by replacing the skirmishers with better variants (Peltastai come to mind) they should sustain fewer casualties.

dominique

10-26-2007, 21:32

https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/390/camilianleuctrawf0.jpg

I tried this tactic against a gaul army with few skirmishers and it worked like a charm.

It's a variation of the same tactic that Epaminondas used at Leuctra.

I build a very strong left with squary hastatii (preferably Samnites) formations (8+ ranks deep), followed by Rorarii in a similar shape. The center is held by the principes (4-5 ranks deep) and the right by a shallow triarii formation (3 ranks).

So, when all the javelins are exchanged and the cavalery is fighting in the flanks, I order an Hastatii advance and I pull back my triarii. The old guys old their own while retreating and the ennemy line squirm and deform trying to adapt to the front.

When the ennemy line is all weird, I rush my Rorarii in the holes on the left. The ennemy line breaks at that time, the left flank is swarmed, panicks and run. Then I swing my left on the right like a mouse trap and bang!

I use what is left of my cavalry to charge the pockets and run over the routers.

It only works against an army with heavy infantry. I tried it against a Carthaginian army with a shit load of skirmishers and I got heavy losses.

I like Scipio's strategy, It's a V with the triarii in the bottom. However, the ennemy almost always attack my flankers on the right. So I swing the left on the right and I try to double enveloppe them.

runes

11-15-2007, 04:16

http://e.photos.cx/luso-645.JPG

LI= light infnatry, usually
HI = heavier infantry
sk= skirmishers
S= spears
Ca= cavalry
f= generally native troops, cheap/fast troops/whatever i can afford with the rest of my cash. i try to make them falxmen though since they are cheap and awesome.

anyway, i've been experimenting with this as a formation, it's still rather defensive and vulnerable to missile attack, but i'm reforming it.

i move the whole column forwards, and generally shift up and right, but this is the basic idea.

i built it around a manipular idea of anchoring my line infantry, and keeping my spears and skirmishers mobile.

the red arrows shows what areas are covered.

the light infantry forms the middle of the line- sort of as a trap, but it also optimizes my placement of my spear and regular infantry.

if i face a cavalry charge aimed at my middle i can send my spears from the back ranks up to meet the flanks of the engaged cavalry, i generally side on taking a few casualties.

if he attacks my front flanks, or divides i can again send my spears forward and hit the sides/rear.

here, the skirmishers protect the flanks and rear of my spears from counter attack.

in case of a wide sweeping flanking manouvre my spears can pull down and to the side while my skirmishers pull into the safety of the group.

if my spears are not fast enough, i bank on my skirmishers being temporarily engaged while the spearmen pull up. i rely heavily on my skirmishers as screening and miring enemy cavalry while appropriate units can get there.

while my line infantry engages in wide open lines, in an attempt to draw out units and create spaces i send my falx forward and around to the rear/flanks.

they are great for this due to speed/good weapon.

they are also great if there is cavalry engaged, i've had alot of luck cutting down cavalry with the falxes.

kind of different approach to the maniple, with the spears being the most mobile and most important, but it's worked pretty well so far.

CirdanDharix

11-15-2007, 19:27

My favourite tactic is the classic double envelopment. I deploy a front line of skirmishers, followed by a main battle line with the best troops on the flanks, in a thick formation, and the lightest troops in the centre, more spread out. The cavalry is as far on the flanks as possible, against the edge of the map. A few elite units and the general stand in reserve; archers are deployed in support behind the line, slingers are in support or in ambush. The skirmishers harass and withdraw, and when contact is made, the enemy foot are channeled into the weak centre, while my cavalry deals with the enmy cavalry. My centre I allow to be driven back. When my soldiers are victorious on the flanks, I have them outflank the enemy centre, while shoring mine up with the reserves. If my cavalry is still sufficiently strong, I have them attack the enemy rear. If the enemy is strogner on one flank than on the other, I usually end up rolling up the enemy line rather than doing the full double envelopment.

Renegen

11-16-2007, 05:23

I'm playing right now as Sab'yn, here's some new stories! I had an army which achieved some amazing battles before being crushed to death by a ptolemic phalanx heavy army.

It consisted of 3 lines.
The first line had 3 archer-spearmen
the second line had 4 light arabian infantry in skirmish mode
the third line had 6 native egyptian infantry
I also had about 4-5 stacks of Ethiopian light infantry on the flanks or reserves.
Then I had 1 cavalry unit and my general.

It performed really well, mostly on the strength of the ability of having such a deep line. If any unit was engaged it could be assisted by 1 other friend from the flanks. When everyone was engaged it was a matter of dividing and conquering. I would send the cavalry to rout enemies.

But a flaw was found, my infantry was not heavy enough and had morale problems. I was constantly against Galatian heavy infantry, medium and elite phalanx,Thureophoroi, peltasts, the very best troops.

I'm working on a new strategy. what's for sure is that formation are overrated.(or I don't understand them heh). I might soon build a perfect Sab'yn army to take on Ptolemoi and their mega empire.

Hound of Ulster

11-22-2007, 06:52

With the Pahlavi...
all cavalry. Not full-stacked, but large enough to take out most infantry forces.
1. have light horse archers bombard line.
2. heavy cav cataphracts and generals charge.
3. repeat until enemy is destroyed.

With the KH...
mixed force. No cavalry so far, but will mix in some Prodiomoi when they become available. Armies right know are mostly infantry, with Classical Hoplities prefered along with Spartans.
1. have archers bombard enemy line. If skirmishers and peltasts present use them as well.
2. Once missile units exhaust ammo, charge with all infantry, including missile troops. Try to to get missile troops in rear of enemy formation.
3. keep pressure on until enemy breaks. it may take awhile.

With Casse...
All infantry, but with lots of generals if possible. Mostly heavy infantry, naked spearman prefered along with heavy swordsman. As all Celtic units have javelins, archers and skirmishers not needed.
1. Throw everybody into battle. Javelin duel will ensue if fighting other Celtic factions.
2. keep pressure on.
3. When enemy line breaks, pursue routing enemies with generals.

With Adverni...
see Casse, except with more cavalry.

Ibrahim

01-31-2008, 19:19

:book: In A.Seleukeia (this may be a bore and way too long):

AC-Pr Th P-P-P-P-P-P-Arg-Hyp-Tba H-G
Th Tox-Tox Ph H
EKI

see legend at the bottom.:yes:

the pezhetairoi+ argyraspists are always grouped into single line so as to present a wall of pikes 77 files wide (the unit scale is large, and the phalangites are in square ~11x11 wide, & the rear rank has 10 men only), and advance in a straight line or in echelon with the left end refused.:book:

the square formation is a compramise Between manuevrebility, power, and safe flanks. the guard are to the right with the pheraspidai to the rear as a reserve or to go behind the nearby Hetairoi to tangle opposing cavalry( anyone seen Blitzkrieg?never mind). same for the rearward thorakitai on the left. the toxotai are to the rear to shoot away at the enemy as they close, or to at least to break the up or cause a stupid move from them. the thorakitai and the argyraspid thorakitai are flank protectors or the ones who typically flank, and are never sent on campaign without at least 3 bronze chevrons, bronze weapons and shield, due to the possibility of overly violent and hard fighting there ( one unit of thorakitai with 3 cheves bronze, silver arms held off 600 enemy(levies) for 10 minute losing only 10 out of 78, while killing 100 of them:yes: ). the elephant is there in the reserves to trample the enemy in case of failure in the line, or to give the enemy skirmishers something to munch on, in case of imminent defeat:laugh4: (the laugh was because that never happens). the left flank cavalry is to screen or to hold the left; the right is to deliver the decisive charge(1 unit of Hetairoi chalked up 150 men in 1 min flat!), and punch a gap in the enemy lines, and send the enemy routing, usually to the strongest enemy unit, or if badly outnumbered, the weakest large concentration of units. for anti-Harmata warfare I order the bold lettered regiments to stop thier advance, the normal lettered ones to stop when the sides of their front ranks are next to the points of the bold lettered one's pikes, and let the enemy ride through under arrow fire( Alexander's Moustrap):

P P P Arg
P P P

these tactics are a sample of what there is known; creativity and intiative are preferred to sticking to the book.modifying the layout if necessary is also recommended. it is also important to have a trailing army with siege weapons and auxiliary cavalry, infantry, or other.(yes 2 stacks for a campaign, one of 20 other of 10 units.)

assesement of nearby early enemies(how to deal with using above army):

1-Pontos:

poor rabble of troops of eastern types; good archers and heavy cavalry, but poor Heavy infantry and worse special units (harmata drepanophora). use above described tactics and casualties will be low for you (not to exceed 5%vs. best armies 1 full stack)

2-Ptolemaioi:

similar units to AS;their phlangitai are dangerous, as are thier Celtic Klerouchikoi, but little cavalry is used by them comparatively: flanking and double envolpement, plus liberal use of elephants, will bring them to heal, though casualties are expected to exceed overall 10-20%, 50% plus for the flanking infantry, and 80% for the cavalry due to pikesturning round from rear attack ( about 40% if they don't)

3-Hayasdan:

similar to pontos, though infantry is slightly better; cavalry dangerous and stubborn, and much use is made of horse archers in the north near the steppes; modify army so as to have more cavalry or flankers (type is left to one's discretion), then go your merry way! casualties not to exceed 5-15% as well.

4-Makedonia:
similar to the AS, more so than the Ptolemaioi; flanking will crush them too, but the casualties are lower, due to the poor quality of thier levy phalangitai used excessivly by the Makedonioi, especially early on. Casualties not to be over 20%, done properly.

5-Baktria:

has a flexible list of Kataphraktoi units and armoured Horse archers, plus units familiar to the Diadochoi kingdoms, such as the Pezhetairoi. using the Hetairoi to crush the weak cavalry, or run behind the pikes, the enmy cavalry can be impaled; the archers are good indian longbowmen, counter with Toxotai, thorakitai/thureophoroi with prodromoi support. the phalangitai can be defeated by superior training and Elephant use in weak areas or where the enmy Phalanggoi have lost cohesion and become squeezed into a small area.
Casualties: low(usually run over by mercenaries before they can muster.)

6-Pahlava:

the most dangerous foe by far: excellent Horse archers, long range and subpub archers, and terrifying heavy cavalry, but poor infantry: for them try to get Subeshi archers if possible, other wise blockade them in cities and towns and starve them out:whip: casualties in open battle will never be under 15%; cannon fodder in form of mercenary army is recommended.

THE END:sweatdrop: :sweatdrop:

P=pezhetairoi
H=hetairoi/ hellenikoi Kataphraktoi
Pr=prodromoi
Ph=pheraspidai
Hyp=hypaspist
Th=thorakitai/thureophoroi
Arg=argyraspids
EKI=elephantes Kataphraktoi indikoi
Tox=syrian archers
AC=auxiliary cav.(if any)
Tba=thorakitai basilikou agemata
G=general

Ayce

01-31-2008, 23:43

My tactic for complete Getic Empire armies:

A line of loose formation archers in front set to flame ammo (I usually have significant numbers of them in my army), they may also include slingers.

That's unless I use phalanxes (who stand in front), in which case I group my archers on one of my flanks.

Melee cavalry on the left flank (charging laterally or from the rear).

Horsearchers on the right flank (my weakest usually, they deplete their forces there)

Light infantry and skirmishers right behind archers/phalanxes.

Shock troops and heavy infantry at about the same position.

Light inf attack one one side (usually the right), and shock troops charge on the other (usually left to help cavalry against polearm and spear weapons)

Archers are usually Komatai Toxotai, Komatai Agrinai and Schytian Archers (soon to get Bosphoran)

Phalanxes are either Light or Heavy Dacian Phalanxes - they perform well out of phalanx formation too and seem to take on most hellenic phalanxes very easily)

Melee cavalry is represented by the Daoi, Tarabostes, Thracian Medium Cavalry and Thessalian Heavy Cav (only mercenaries)

Horsearchers are the usual Getikoi Hippotoxotai, though Schytians are sometimes employed. (no Ktistai yet)

Light infantry varies wildly (Komatai, K Epilektoi, Peltasts, Galatians, Spearmen of various cultures)

Shockers are Falxmen, Galatian Wild Men for now. Soon to have Romfea men and Scordisci.

I severely underuse Kostoboks and Mezenai, though they'd go to Skirmisher and Horsearcher (I'm not nuts) groups respectively.

Maion Maroneios

02-02-2008, 17:07

Well, I play now as the Makedonai so it is only natural I would use Alexandrian army tactics:wall: The thing is, I divide my armies according to their role in combat. My economy is quite strong now, so I can basically afford any army of my likeness. My basic Successor army is quite simple in terms of composition and tactics, just good ol' hammer an' anvil tactics:beam: My armies tend to look like this:

-----------S----------S--------------
-------F1-P-P-P-P-P-P-P-F1----------
----F2----M----M-----M----F2
----C2-C1---------------C1-G--------

S (Skirmishers): They harass the enemy before the clash and fall back if any enemy units pursuits them.
F1 (Infantry, preferably sowrdsmen): They protect my army's flanks and shower the enemy with javelins, if they have.
F2 (Infantry, preferably spearmen): They have basically two roles. One is to aid the first flanking soldiers (F1) in case of need and the second is to protect my cavalry against enemy flankers.
P (Phalangites): My army's backbone. They form the solid wall of spears that keeps the enemy at bay and also push, if needed be.
M (Missiles): They shower the oncoming or/and fleeing enemy. I'm especially fond of slingers, they tend to crush the enemy's backs:skull:
C2 (Light cavalry): Those guys mostly shower the enemy if they have jvelins, or just sweep the battlefield from fleeing enemy soldiers.
C1 (Heavy cavalry): I think you know what those guys do:yes: Flanking, aiding my main line and hitting the enemy backs, as well as pursuing fleeing enemies. They are my army's flower.
G (General): Not much to say here.

I also have skirmishing armies which follow my main army when I'm out conquering. Those armies are real nasty for the enemy, as they are composed of fast-moving infantry and javelin cavalry which gives me the needed distraction.

carthage_supreme

02-28-2008, 13:10

Lol, wow you guys im surprised that we have some real tacticians here.

Playing carthage i usually have my formations set up like this

Enemies
_____________________ ____________________

HI
----------------------------------------------------

Fi FI
__________ _________

SC SC
--------- ------------ HI: Heavy infantry
Fi: Flanking infantry
SC: Support cavlary

First thing i do is let the heavy infantry engage the enemys front line. Whilst the Heavy infantry is in full engagement i send the Flanking infantry (which usually consists of skirmishers and elite troops) to support the the main line. After sending in the FI, I send the SC to kill all enemy skirmishers( if there is any) and to smash into the enemys rear.

LordCurlyton

02-28-2008, 23:43

The following illustration explains my default Aedui tactics:

https://img20.imageshack.us/img20/8755/complextacticskw7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Even after all this time, this still remains the best tactic EVAR!!:2thumbsup:

carthage_supreme

02-29-2008, 00:31

Even after all this time, this still remains the best tactic EVAR!!:2thumbsup:

Despite the crudeness and lack of finesse in it. It could still be devastating with the right amount of wildmen and the right circumstances. I employed a similar tactic having only half a stack against a full stack of romans , they just ran like no tommorow over the bridge with my little savage celts right on there tail.

Olaf The Great

02-29-2008, 13:08

I always have these battle plans, but the enemy always ignores my phalanxes and goes for the reserves. It ends up being a simple hammer and anvil strategy (hvy inf+lancers, pref phalanxes but any infantry work)

konny

02-29-2008, 14:15

"No plan ever has survived first contact with the enemy" - Moltke

The AI has a talent to screw up any battle plan, from the simplest to the finest, by its stupid running around.

General Appo

02-29-2008, 20:58

I fully agree. I can sometimes spend 5 minutes positioning my troops so that my genius plan will work, only to have it screwed up by the AI refusing to comply and just running around. Like I remember reading somewhere: "You can´t beat a guy at a game if he´s to stupid to follow the rules"

NEver

03-01-2008, 00:02

Stupid? Or incredibly devious?

I want you all to ask yourselves that

Ymarsakar

03-01-2008, 15:43

The most effective way to retreat my troops that I found was to first send in reinforcements to tie up the enemy my unit is fighting. Then withdraw the unit by making it run away from the enemy front. Because the enemy is now busy fighting my new fresh troops scattered about, there is less blows hitting the troops now retreating. One of the benefits of having troops scattered about a wide frontage.

As for blitzing enemies, I have found that if you send reinforcements of about 4 units to battle an exhausted enemy that has already taken around 50% casualties, they will automatically break due to the change in battle odds. This is different than if you had sent those 4 in earlier, since disciplined units can regain lost morale at a rate high enough that they can avoid breaking for some time, unless you inflict massive casualties on them in a short time.

The easier way to do it is to use many naked fanatics, since their fear ability is just too much for militia and low morale/experienced units to handle.

I've noticed that if I don't pay attention to which unit I am attacking or surrounding, my battles tend to take a lot longer than if I had located the unit that has taken casualties and has wavering or shaken and use my cavalry against them. Even if you just use fresh troops and make them run up and into that unit's line, they can still break from the number of hits your new unit does on them.

The reason why is because normally when you send an infantry unit to attack, they slowly approach the enemy's line once they made contact. If you force them to run into the enemy and past him, your unit will stay in formation and "bunch up" against the enemy. When you then order them to attack, many many more of your unit is now attacking and in contact with the enemy. Statistically this means a faster kill rate, and thus a faster loss of morale.

My solution to the AI running around is to use strategic offense and tactical defense. I attack on the strat map and go into enemy territory, then allow the enemy to attack me. Thus the enemy always comes to me on the battle map, if I can manage it.

Also the solution of using skirmishers and slingers works amazingly well for luring enemy ai units into combat. Once in combat, the enemy AI tends to try to reinforce his units, even if the AI is on the defensive. I once used an entire army of nothing but unarmored horse archers and slingers to destroy a Central European AI spawned army.