Prisoners

[ShadesWolf]

I think an interesting addition might be prisoners taken after battle.

the idea is this the battle finishes, u have the option to take prisoners or kill them.

If u take prisoners, u have to have somewhere in your provance to keep them, then when the enemy attacks u, if they win they can set the prisoners free etc....

what do u all think..

[Jaguara]

Quote Originally posted by ShadesWolf:
If u take prisoners, u have to have somewhere in your provance to keep them, then when the enemy attacks u, if they win they can set the prisoners free etc....
[/QUOTE]

And so why would I want to take prisoners?

I need a place to keep them, and if I happen to lose the province, then I risk giving the enemy his men back...I am not seeing the advantage here.

[Funkybax]

Maybe ransom for the nobles?

[ShadesWolf]

U enter a battle against the enemy, u win, and only kill half his army.

The rest of the army loses but retreats to a near by province (as in shogun - single player game) they can then get reinforced and attack u again.

If they r taken prisoner, they r out of the game, until they r set free.

[solypsist]

WTF?
prisoners?
hmmm.....now if someone shows up vehemently wanting the ability to impale the enemy wounded on long spikes, i'm afraid i'll have to quit this whole crappy site.

[BakaGaijin]

But the enemy impaled on spikes would be a vital tool in psychological warfare, serving to give a morale hit to the enemy who sees his comrades so dishonoured.

Or something.

*cough*

Anyway, this "prisoners" idea really makes very little sense.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Khan7]

Well, really, in the aftermath (and during) of a battle you're going to have people surrendering, people outright switching sides, people just deserting, etc. Captured nobles were generally ransomed. I'm not sure as to whether there were really any organized POW systems, nor any need for such.

I think generally it would have sufficed to simply disarm enemy surrenders and thus render them ineffective, letting them go on their way, as especially if they were mere peasants they would pose no threat. Nobles as I said would be treated nicely but held for ransom, a very lucrative business. The only other cases I can think of would be when enemy prisoners were made slaves, but during the period dealt with by the game slaves weren't necessarily a big thing in many areas (though I really don't know).

I'd say it's fairly safe to say that surrenders and captive nobles and such would be viable, now that we're not dealing with Japs and their reputatoin for a "run like hell but never surrender" attitude (which I can't attack or verify, btw). Defections and such probably won't be added, as it would require several additional layers of strategic depth and complexity (this option of course would be fine for Japan, too).

And desertion/dispersal in the aftermath of a battle is mainly due to logistical factors which may or may not (probably not) be modeled in MTW, so this probably is also not something we'll see.

Anyway, hope that puts things on track.

Matt

EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, there must have been some sort of POW system, but none of the en-masse type of stuff we've been accustomed to over the past few centuries. I just realized that on of the castles I've visited in England has an area where they were keeping French prisoners. It is my suspicion, however, that these would have been nobles or other VIPs, imprisoning peasants would seem to be a waste of time, and as I said I don't think slavery was all the rage in these regions during this period.

[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 12-19-2001).]

[ShadesWolf]

While doing some research for the Clan shades Medieval: Total War site (On Richard the lionheart) I came across the point that he was taken prisoner while returning from the Crusades, and a ransom was finally paid to set him free.

I also remember reading somewhere as u stated Khan 7, that nobel men were often taken prisoner to encorage the enemy to pay large amounts of money for them.

England actually did this during the 100 years war, by taking Joan of Arc as prisoner, before executing here. I agree this could be a useful tactics to reduce the enemy morale.

[Catiline]

peasants came with the land, so if you conquered it you set them loose, they became your own asset. Nobles wee ransomed, remembering that the distinction between nations was nothing like as clear, they were fellow noblemen before they were French. Plus it was not unknown to give the troops a share of the ransom money so they didn't like seeing aristocracy killed off as Henry V did after Agincourt.

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Oderint dum metuant

[ShadesWolf]

Please read the following link
http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/lewis1.html

This link talks about SLAVE armies in the middle ages. It is an article about Slavery, and there are some interesting additions on

Saladin
Fatimid army
mamluk sultans
Ottoman Janissary infantry

From the article is appears that a percentage of the Islamic armies of the time were made up of SLAVE labour some of which we captives of war.

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

At the official site, in one of the event screens, we clearly see a guy in a prison cell.

So maybe there will be something in the game with regards to prisoners.

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Yes the camel sprites do look good

[Hirosito]

damn you are good mod

really great work kuma

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

Thanks Hirosito

After weeks of "rest", waiting for some news of the game, i am really motivated now!!!! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Furthermore, i really do have a good "feeling" about MTW.


In any case there seems to be something going on about prisoners in MTW but what? Prisoner exchanges for ransom?

[This message has been edited by Sir Kuma of The Org (edited 12-20-2001).]

[theforce]

It would also take money to feed them. How about having mercinaries from other countries, in your army. Eg prisoners after some time would turn to your army and they loyalty would raise from time to time. It would also reduce the morale of the enemy seeing his units in your army. Moreover it would make your army more reliable http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[PSYCHO]

Prisoners..Not a bad point that.. for MTW.
What do you guys think about having some routing troops "surrender" and stay put instead of routing off the field.
In Medieval times knights (the wealthy) in particular would often surrender as opposed to fighting to the death...eg. Agincourt.
So what about low to medium honour knights having a certain % (prob low) likelyhood of surrender and those "casualties" can be added as a ransom in diplomatic negotiations.
If you wanted to get real tricky, you could have higher prices for ransom of experienced troops, higher revolt chances in conquered territories (from the battle in question) and worsened Diplomatic relations if you kill prisoners. Maybe a possibility that if unguarded on the field of battle they may be able to rally and rejoin the battle..albeit in a weaken form.
Just some dream'in http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

Dream On!!!!

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Yes the camel sprites do look good

[PSYCHO]

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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PSYCHO HOJO / PSYCHO SO

[clink]

I know that the middle eastern states(muslims) did take the prisoners and sold them off as slaves,usualy the peasant cadre and killed off the Crusader knights. There was a battle in which the Muslims were victorius began killing all the knights. Some of the non knights pretended to be knights prefering a quick death than live a horrible life of slavery.

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TeuTonic

[vapd]

Ransoming nobles was a common practice in the period. As for normal prisioners... I really dont know. Might be able to come back with some more info on that one.

What I do know is that there were a lot of mercenary companys about and these would of course change sides if necessary. Also I do know that the French used to cut the first and middle fingers off English prisioners. How do you use a longbow then....Its why we stick two fingers up at people to this day. This of course means that there must have been some exchange of prisioners...

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

It seems tha we will be able to capture and ransom in the game, this is from the IGN preview:

"You can even capture units on the battlefield, including lords and kings, and ransom them off if you need some quick cash."




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Yes the camel sprites do look good