Pope\'s influence

[Irving]

on the M:TW site there is a screen of an event "For the love of god. The pope demands that you cease attacking the Italians. You ahve a year to pull your troops out" that was the jist of it anyways. will the pope actually have influence, or be like the emperor in S:TW? and if the pope gives you an ultimatum, what happens after a year?

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Best bet is that you will suffer a severe hit in loyalty in any provinces/areas where the people are Catholic.
Skkz

[Irving]

also, most armies of that time were conscripts right? so the morale penalty would carry onto the battlefield

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Hirosito]

or the holy roman empire might attack you and /or the papal states.
this seems to me to be an indication of the advanced diplomacy model. ally with the right people and get papal support.i hope it's not like irving suggest with the emperor in STW who was useless

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Irving]

although, the emperor would probably declare support for whoever controlled the province where his palace was, as this would be the wisest thing to do

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[theforce]

Hmmm the pope had power but for the most part the Byzantines are away from the pope. Anyway l am not getting into relegious stuff here but the pope was powerful only to Catholics. I would hate if Creative Assembly fouls things up about the two churches.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

Ok I will explain and be clear on this. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

At those times the European mainland was all Catholic. Protestantism didn't exist until the 16th century - which isn't even covered in M: TW. The people in these days were very religious and the setting up of new monk orders (eg. Benedictines) or else even military religious groups (eg. Templars, Hospitalliers) was quite common.

The Pope did have a great influence. He good excommunicate rulers from the Church or make them pay heavy fines if they didn't obey his occasional orders - and believe me -excommunication was worse than death penalty at those times.

Tera.



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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Te reformation truly bega in 1517 when Martin Luther's ideas were overheard in the marketplace outside his school.

its all here if you are interested. http://mars.wnec.edu/~grempel/courses/wc2/lectures/luther.html

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"

[Hirosito]

theforce, the byzantines have nowt to do with it. the holy roman empire was modern day germany. and just to confirm what tera said the emperor of the holy roman empire was excommunicated cos of something he did and then walked(!) barefoot(!) to canossa a place in italy to say he was sorry. 'the walk to canossa' is still a german saying for when someone goes to apologise

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

Well, you should know that before the Islamic Ottoman invasion of Constantinople (later Istanbul), the Byzantines were Catholics (that's one of the reasons they originally broke from the Western Roman empire) so they were under the Pope too.
But the countries of the European mainland mainly concerned the Pope anyway.

This age is out of the game, but you should also know that for example Henry VIII Of England was Catholic at first...and defended the Catholic faith by writing reports against Martin Luther's beliefs (those 92 theses he wrote mainly) and was even given the the title of Defender of the Faith by the Pope! The symbol of the DOTF is still visible on English coins! How could that Pope dream that later on Henry VIII would break out of the Church because he wanted to divorce and created a new religion which is still dominant in English-based countries? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Tera

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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[hunkypex]

i thought the bysantines were orthodox at least for some of the time in what will be M:TW but i could be wrong still reading a little bit just now it seems to say the bysantines did break from the roman church. W
I dont know much about The great schism except that it probably sounds cooler than it is.

[theforce]

You are wrong Tera. I have studied Byzantine empire for a whole year and they were Orthodox for the beggining until the fall of The City (Polis) in Greek. Anyway there was only one central church in Constantinople. In the 9th and 10th century though there was a debate that was the begging of the torn of the church. Some people were against the worshiping of saints images. Church was devided to those who were in favour and to those who were against it. Eventualy those who were in favout of having saint's images(not to worship the image but the saint who is on it) won and even today images of saint are in churches of Orthodox. Then Catholics developed under the pope in the Westen countries of Europe that time until today. You can see that there are no saint's images in Catholic churches and you can see there are no statues in Orthodox churches. I am 1000% sure they were Orthodox since the fall.
The bastard pope whould reather see the Orthodox church die along with the Byzantine empire. That is the reason he didn't send any help. If you have any doubts of what l am saying Tera who can look it up.
Orthdox comes from two Greek words Orthos and do3a. Orthos means right and do3a worship.
There was no Catholics at the beggining only Orthodox's. That started from the founding of the city in the 4th century from Great Constantine.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too. http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[This message has been edited by theforce (edited 01-05-2002).]

True. Sorry I tried to retell from memory...I got it all wrong! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif I checked too, and you're right.

But they were Christians anyway http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
They didn't fall directly under the Pope though.

Ter.

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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
I'm from Malta, but I'm not a Malteser. http://terazawa.totalwar.org/malta_md_clr.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)

[Catiline]

There were the Hussites in eatern Europe and the HRE well before Luther and they caused major problems. They also had battle wagons.

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Oderint dum metuant

[clink]

I can't wait for the opertunaty to nail that fat, glutinous, corrupt fondler of little boys,the pope,with my marauding band of heathen barbarian horde.

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TeuTonic

Stransky-Grab your MP-40 and I'll take you where the Iron crosses grow row on row.
Steiner...

[Katasaki Hirojima]

And I can't wait to march the Byzantine army across europe and the Near East.

"Belisarius was his name, viva the legend! Viva Belisarius, Champion of the civilized world!"

;p

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"I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength."- Shang-ji Yang, essays on mind and matter.

[Irving]

same here clink

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[theforce]

Same here Katasaki Hirojima http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif


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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.nipogames.com/default.html

[Brown Wolf]

Would it be possible to help certain "characters" in the game become pope that are from your empire?

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"always be thinking"

[Kraellin]

brown wolf,

that, in itself, could easily be the theme of an entire game. title: "Peasant to Pope".

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[Papewaio]

There was a periods of time when;

1) More then one pope existed.
2) They could have children and were almost dynasties.
3) A female pope existed.
4) The cardinals, popes and other religious figures would knock each other off with anything from charges of hearsay to poison.

They were the yuppies of their time in many ways as well.


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Never start a land war in Asia
Never bet with a Scilian when death is on the line
Never expect anything more then sarcasm from an Australian

[KukriKhan]

This place http://www.osvpublishing.com/catholicalmanac/08a.htm lists out all the popes, with interesting footnotes about the Western Schism and Reformation. Starting around the 10th century, you can see that the papacy was more about political/military power than religious influence (see all the princes, dukes, counts, etc. named as pope for relatively short periods ~ and anti-popes, delegitimized popes, 2 and 3 pope claimants at once...sheesh!) http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Red Peasant]

Quote Originally posted by Katasaki Hirojima:
And I can't wait to march the Byzantine army across europe and the Near East.

"Belisarius was his name, viva the legend! Viva Belisarius, Champion of the civilized world!"
[/QUOTE]

Why not Narses....the eunuch!? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

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"Gutta cavat lapidem non vi sed saepe cadendo"
--Ovid
(The drop hollows the stone not by force but by dripping often)

[ShadesWolf]

Please take a look at http://gamespot.com/gamespot/filters/products/screens/0,11105,539605-12,00.html

This shows a number of different religions

And I think two of them are Christian.....

[evilc]

religion aarrgghh lol

[Papewaio]

Quote Originally posted by evilc:
religion aarrgghh lol[/QUOTE]

Not much choice when you don't have other opiates such as TV.

[evilc]

Gah!