View Full Version : Idaho's Continuiing Mission to Make Right Wing Americans Feel good - Jessica Lynch
Isn't it a shame that life can't be like Hollywood (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1701462.ece)
So it turns out she was nearly abandoned in a firefight and Iraqi soldiers took her to a hospital where Iraqi doctors saved her life. And into the picture comes a bunch of yank soldiers.
It would be :laugh4: if it wasn't so :no:
And as for the story of Pat Tillman:
The Pentagon has said that there was no attempt at a cover-up, merely “errors of judgment which created the perception of concealment”.
Since it says Iraqi 'troops', wouldn't it be safe to assume that these were allied forces, who tend to fight along?
Zaknafien
04-25-2007, 16:18
Yep. Good stuff.
Since it says Iraqi 'troops', wouldn't it be safe to assume that these were allied forces, who tend to fight along?
Someone put the coffee on. Frag's still a little bleary-eyed.
Someone put the coffee on. Frag's still a little bleary-eyed.
Shouldn't you be nursing my Jack Daniel stocks instead? But sure, black please.
edit, I'll get my own, want some? Got the finest arabica.
Since it says Iraqi 'troops', wouldn't it be safe to assume that these were allied forces, who tend to fight along?
Lynch was captured in the initial invasion, so I doubt they were allied.
Lynch was captured in the initial invasion, so I doubt they were allied.
Oh I don't even know who it is, I just recently learned that Iraq isn't a member of the EU. Anyways, all this is an old story, I believe I even read it here, but maybe it was a different Iraq, who knows how many there are when you look away for a second.
Crazed Rabbit
04-25-2007, 23:50
Meh...I don't know about all those other right wing Americans, but I never felt Lynch was the hero - rather, the soldiers who rescued her were.
And haven't we known since a couple weeks after Tillman's death that it was friendly fire?
Sometimes, Idaho, I doubt you're really putting your effort into making me feel good. ~;p
CR
PS - where did you get the name Idaho? It seems the state of the same name and you aren't similar politically.
Don Corleone
04-26-2007, 00:02
I believe it relates to the Frank Herbert character Duncan Idaho from Dune, correct?
Yeah, Idaho, no offense, but if you're trying to get our goat, you're going to have to get up a little earlier. I actually DID get really upset about the Pat Tillman coverup, when it came to light, 3 years ago. But at the end of the day, I can only spit nails for so long. What else can I possibly do? Impeach Bush because some Lieutenant Colonel threatened his soldiers if they came forward and told the truth? Maybe we should impeach Bush because my dog pissed on the floor and didn't make it outside? :idea2:
Goofball
04-26-2007, 00:17
I believe it relates to the Frank Herbert character Duncan Idaho from Dune, correct?
Yeah, Idaho, no offense, but if you're trying to get our goat, you're going to have to get up a little earlier. I actually DID get really upset about the Pat Tillman coverup, when it came to light, 3 years ago. But at the end of the day, I can only spit nails for so long. What else can I possibly do? Impeach Bush because some Lieutenant Colonel threatened his soldiers if they came forward and told the truth? Maybe we should impeach Bush because my dog pissed on the floor and didn't make it outside? :idea2:
Both of those reasons sound valid to me.
Where do I sign?
Both of those reasons sound valid to me.
Where do I sign?
Well effectively if you voted Democrat last election, regardless of your leanings, that was your "It's time for change dammitall!" voice like the rest of pissed off Americans. Lot of good that's done us so far, huh? :no:
Crazed Rabbit
04-26-2007, 04:13
Well, he's Canadian, so we ignore him.
~;p
Can we impeach Bush cause I did lousy on the test? All the tension over the war made me worry...
CR
Yeah, Idaho, no offense, but if you're trying to get our goat, you're going to have to get up a little earlier. I actually DID get really upset about the Pat Tillman coverup, when it came to light, 3 years ago. But at the end of the day, I can only spit nails for so long. What else can I possibly do? Impeach Bush because some Lieutenant Colonel threatened his soldiers if they came forward and told the truth? Maybe we should impeach Bush because my dog pissed on the floor and didn't make it outside?
I'm gonna have to agree with Don. I was pissed when I learned the story of Tillman. All this investigation has made me do is read this (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/09/05/tillman0911/) article again. And reaffirm Tillman as one of my principle role models.
Gregoshi
04-26-2007, 04:35
Where do I sign?
Now we're starting to sound like a Lynch mob.
KafirChobee
04-26-2007, 05:14
Hearing the real story about Jessica Lynch, from Jessica, on how our own troops came close to killing her when the doctor attempted to return her to our lines was almost laughable. The real hero was the Iraqi doctor, for trying to do the right thing - and those in her group that died.
The heroes that rescued her? Yeah, right. Great job there - shooting up a hospital. Doing something that would have been entirely unneccessary had our troops been willing to pay attention to who they were shooting at and killing at the outset.
Pat, now that we know he was killed by friendly fire - does his family have to give back the bogus SilverStar that he was awarded for being shot by accident - by another GI (scared titless, er witless)?
There are real heroes from this war. But, because the war is bogus - those in charge figure no one will mind if they include a few bogus ones as well that are better for propagandic spin.
Today we call all our troops heroes - its like T-ball where everyone gets a medal or trophy at the end of a season regardless of their win-loss records. Not that the men and women that serve our nation at the risk of their lives should not be respected, even honored - but, they're all heroes? Maybe, but only by the standard that those that haven't served are cowards.
I think the lesson from both Lynch and Tillman is simple: Don't make things up, 'cause it will bite you in the posterior every time. An ugly truth is superior, in the long run, to a convenient lie.
I don't know if everybody's absorbed this one, but it's simple, and it's a good rule to live by.
IrishArmenian
04-26-2007, 07:05
Impeach Bush because some Lieutenant Colonel threatened his soldiers if they came forward and told the truth? Maybe we should impeach Bush because my dog pissed on the floor and didn't make it outside? :idea2:
There is so much more to impeach that man on. I will say this: the cover-up for Pat Tillman does not rest with Bush, it was to well orchestrated. Now, incompetence... you can impeach a president for that, can you not?
Pat, now that we know he was killed by friendly fire - does his family have to give back the bogus SilverStar that he was awarded for being shot by accident - by another GI (scared titless, er witless)?
Just because it turned out to be friendly fire does not diminish Tillman's courage. He did advance under fire, without regard for himself, into an ambush to relieve comrades. If that's not courage shot me cause the world is over.
I think the lesson from both Lynch and Tillman is simple: Don't make things up, 'cause it will bite you in the posterior every time. An ugly truth is superior, in the long run, to a convenient lie.
I don't know if everybody's absorbed this one, but it's simple, and it's a good rule to live by.
QTF. In today's day and age it's getting to be even harder to cover up mistakes and BS like this, because invariably there is going to be someone, somewhere, unnoticed with a camcorder. Not always literally, but I think we get my point.
On a un unrelated topic but somewhat in the same vein, I'm very proud of my fellow citizens who have been using the Intarwebs and stuff like Youtube to take an activist role against BS like police brutality. I think by and large these days cops are tending to get a bit out of control, and something needs to be done to put that in check, and nothing speaks louder than filmed evidence. I understand that these men and women are by and large probably good people, but when put in a position of relative power and authority like they are, they MUST be held to a much higher bar and standard, esp. when things like our civil and constitutional rights are involved. I'm getting really sick of the whole "The officers were acting within their rights" or "you don't know the whole story" excuses that are constantly used when clearly they went far beyond those. I used police as the example, but I think that freedom of information is a good thing overall for keeping tabs on authority, hence keeping it in check.
:focus:
There is so much more to impeach that man on. I will say this: the cover-up for Pat Tillman does not rest with Bush, it was to well orchestrated. Now, incompetence... you can impeach a president for that, can you not?
Does gross negligence and dereliction of duty fall under incompetence?
Gregoshi
04-26-2007, 08:13
Events don't just happen anymore. Each one is taken as an opportunity by all sides to build up their viewpoint or tear down someone else's. Attack or defend - constantly, then wave Old Glory in the other guy's face and scream "I am more patriotic than thou!" Never admit to a mistake even when you have no other choice. The middle ground is unacceptable as it is a partial surrender to the other side. Compromise is dying and our country is worse off for it.
Okay, rant over. My train is now departing Depressiontown for the return trip to Punsylvania.
Alexander the Pretty Good
04-26-2007, 09:27
Even when he's not being funny, Greg's posts rock.
Adrian II
04-26-2007, 12:00
Just because it turned out to be friendly fire does not diminish Tillman's courage. He did advance under fire, without regard for himself, into an ambush to relieve comrades. If that's not courage shot me cause the world is over.Aye. Tillman isn't diminished by this circus, only his superiors are.
English assassin
04-26-2007, 12:18
“errors of judgment which created the perception of concealment”.
I am SO going to use this phrase in my daily life. No more lying for this Assassin, henceforth there will be errors of judgment which create the perception of concealment.
Adrian II
04-26-2007, 13:23
I am SO going to use this phrase in my daily life. No more lying for this Assassin, henceforth there will be errors of judgment which create the perception of concealment.Yeah, it beats Clark's being 'economical with the actualité'. :2thumbsup:
Gregoshi
04-26-2007, 13:35
EA, just don't tell anyone the counter to that phrase: "perception is reality". :inquisitive:
Seamus Fermanagh
04-26-2007, 15:30
Events don't just happen anymore. Each one is taken as an opportunity by all sides to build up their viewpoint or tear down someone else's. Attack or defend - constantly, then wave Old Glory in the other guy's face and scream "I am more patriotic than thou!" Never admit to a mistake even when you have no other choice. The middle ground is unacceptable as it is a partial surrender to the other side. Compromise is dying and our country is worse off for it.
Okay, rant over. My train is now departing Depressiontown for the return trip to Punsylvania.
Good post.
All-in-all, I thought pinning a medal on Ms. Lynch a little much. Her convoy got lost and blundered into an ambush that was pure serendipity for the opposition forces. Some of her group fought back, she got crunched in a car wreck. She did nothing heroic, and -- as far as I can tell -- nothing wrong either. That said, I appreciate her sense of honor to point out that she was not the deserving one in this scenario. The Iraqi doctor is to be commended.
Tillman was just plain stupidly handled. He did a brave thing -- perhaps truly heroic -- and ended up on the wrong end of a fratricide. I know the military hates those episodes, but they happen. The best answer, in the long run, is to say: despite our best efforts we malfed it. We're examining this one to make sure no one was actively negligent and to improve our ability to prevent such episodes in the future. Which is about all that can be done anyway. Accidental fratricides have occurred ever since projectile weapons have been used in war -- and probably even with the melee stuff as well.
All-in-all, expecting a bureacracy to NOT play CYA games is rather silly. That is basic organizational politics. So, we need to hammer those responsible for cover-ups and mis-reporting to try to minimize this in the future, but it will never go away completely. George Washington's bit with the cherry tree is apocryphal. For heaven's sake, many (most) of us lie to ourselves on an ongoing and constant basis. To expect perfect honesty in such a world is noble, but pretty pointless. Diogenes is on a fruitless quest.
For heaven's sake, many (most) of us lie to ourselves on an ongoing and constant basis. To expect perfect honesty in such a world is noble, but pretty pointless. Diogenes is on a fruitless quest.
To expect perfect fitness is pointless; does this mean we should not work out? To expect perfect knowledge is pointless; does this mean we should not read or study? To achieve perfect wealth is impossible; does this mean we should not work and invest?
Just because the perfect apex of an ideal is unreachable is no reason to give up or lower expectations. Honesty as a personal and organizational trait is paramount. You sleep better and think more clearly when you are not encumbered by a train of lies.
The best way to make the world more honest is to practice greater personal honesty. Does this mean you will reach "perfect" honesty? Of course not. But demanding perfection is a sure way to end any worthwhile endeavor.
Goofball
04-26-2007, 17:24
Well, he's Canadian, so we ignore him.
~;p
Can we impeach Bush cause I did lousy on the test? All the tension over the war made me worry...
CR
Again, I say: Yes!
:yes:
I was chewing my fingernail this morning, and it tore a little bit too deeply and in the wrong direction, leaving me with a bloody finger.
Also Bush's fault.
Also worthy of impeachment.
Seamus Fermanagh
04-26-2007, 20:10
To expect perfect fitness is pointless; does this mean we should not work out? To expect perfect knowledge is pointless; does this mean we should not read or study? To achieve perfect wealth is impossible; does this mean we should not work and invest?
Just because the perfect apex of an ideal is unreachable is no reason to give up or lower expectations. Honesty as a personal and organizational trait is paramount. You sleep better and think more clearly when you are not encumbered by a train of lies.
The best way to make the world more honest is to practice greater personal honesty. Does this mean you will reach "perfect" honesty? Of course not. But demanding perfection is a sure way to end any worthwhile endeavor.
Well, that is the mark to aim for, certainly. I just think its wise to temper one's strivings with the knowledge that the perfect goal is virtually unobtainable. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try for it, but tempering it with a dash of forgiveness seems appropriate.
Gregoshi
04-26-2007, 20:18
Seamus, it is one thing to CYA, it is another thing all together to strike up the band and start passing out medals.
Samurai Waki
04-26-2007, 20:27
I think that by doing this, it is also a real discredit to Real War Heroes, who actually did something heroic. This is war, not Fun Time at the Kiddy Coral where Jimmy bruised his knee and a got a lolli pop, and someone seeing him with the lolli pop got angry and demanded they get one. Ugh.
Seamus Fermanagh
04-26-2007, 21:02
Seamus, it is one thing to CYA, it is another thing all together to strike up the band and start passing out medals.
Hey, the first two paragraphs of that post agreed with that. I'm not saying it wasn't wrong/screwed up in both instances. It was. I am only saying that reacting to it as though it were a full-on crime is a little too much response.
Gregoshi
04-26-2007, 21:43
Sorry Seamus, I didn't mean to come on quite so strong. I know your first two paragraphs was agreeable with my point, but your follow up post to Lemur took my mind towards the latter part of your post only.
Your point about not overreacting to these overzealous acts of CYA has some merit in normal times, but with the tensions and missteps surrounding Iraq and Afghanistan, these types of coverups and works of fiction just make a bad situation worse. The Lynch story in particular takes a non-event and turns it into a negative magnified by the growing controversial situation in Iraq.
ShadeHonestus
04-27-2007, 08:03
Maybe we should impeach Bush because my dog pissed on the floor and didn't make it outside? :idea2:
Oh of course.
In fact we should impeach Bush for pretty much everything these days. Internationally he's condemned for every drop of supposed American piss in everyone's cup of post WW1 coffee. Domestically he's the sacrificial lamb for social and fiscal conservatives who didn't get the bang for their buck and for the left who have had identity issues since the days of JFK, which of course, are the fault of the right.
I know its not being said (tin hatters know the reason why), but I'm pretty sure a source is out there somewhere that puts Bush on the phone with the commander in Iraq stating that he should abandon Lynch as to create the hero. The doctors in Iraq were actually low level assets of the Illuminati.
Ironside
04-27-2007, 19:17
I know its not being said (tin hatters know the reason why), but I'm pretty sure a source is out there somewhere that puts Bush on the phone with the commander in Iraq stating that he should abandon Lynch as to create the hero. The doctors in Iraq were actually low level assets of the Illuminati.
FYI, our branch handling the US is known as the NWO. :book:
Pannonian
04-27-2007, 19:57
Oh of course.
In fact we should impeach Bush for pretty much everything these days. Internationally he's condemned for every drop of supposed American piss in everyone's cup of post WW1 coffee. Domestically he's the sacrificial lamb for social and fiscal conservatives who didn't get the bang for their buck and for the left who have had identity issues since the days of JFK, which of course, are the fault of the right.
I know its not being said (tin hatters know the reason why), but I'm pretty sure a source is out there somewhere that puts Bush on the phone with the commander in Iraq stating that he should abandon Lynch as to create the hero. The doctors in Iraq were actually low level assets of the Illuminati.
Wow, straw everywhere.
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