Hold Formation

[Puzz3D]

Does anyone else think that hold formation as implemented in STW and WE/MI is far too rigid? A single line of men in hold formation will not bend at all. Shouldn't charging cavalry just blow right through a single line of men even if they are yari samurai? I'd like to see much less rigidity in the way hold formation works in MTW.

[Polar]

too right yuuki, spears have to be deep and en mass to hold against cav. but in stw a single line or 2 line deep yari sam can hold off several cavs at the same time. i read in the previews that charging cavs will break through enemy lines in mtw. this will hopefully solve the problem.

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++ UglyPolar ++ GlassHeart

[This message has been edited by Polar (edited 02-05-2002).]

[Nelson]

A line of well-trained pike I'm not so sure about. With their own healthy sense of self-preservation a horse will not impale itself if can help it. Then again a single line might be pretty fragile even so.

I have always regretted the rigidity of Shogun formations but accept them as simplifying the game engine. Only certain well drilled troop types should enjoy the option to hold formation in the first place. Others should engage in the usual confused general melee. I'm curious to learn what the rumored impact of heavy cav will amount to in M:TW. The knights could be very impetuous but very destructive. They ought to blast through infantry at least some of the time, formations not withstanding.

[evilc]

pikemen in ranks of 2 would be trampled over by enough horsemen, albeit by killing most of the horses, the pressure of charging horses would be great, but if bravehearts right horses would get piked anyway.

[TosaInu]

Konnichiwa,

Single lines should be breakable. Also I feel that single and loose formations should drop morale a bit: a square tight formation provides protection (feels comfy), a long stretched line exposes each individual soldier to the dangers.

Nelson, the momentum of a dying horse would destroy the line.

Now we talk about pikeman, in STW a weapon upgrade adds to their fighting ability, better against any unit. So what you can get is that Honor 6 yariSam beat H2 WarriorMonks. Madness, the long pike is an excellent weapon to stop cavcharges, it's about worthless in close combat (with warriormonks). A weaponupgrade for pikeman should increase their yari vs cav bonus (skill, heavier pike that won't break, 16th century pics of pikeman show very heavy pikes partly dig into the ground: horses won't break such lines that easy). More precisely, a pike is useful vs charging cav and head on. When cav attacks the pikes in the back, the pikes won't have their yari vs cav bonus. Halberts and short poleweapons on the other hand are not suited to BLOCK a cavcharge, but are great in close combat with cav. Pikes should BLOCK frontal cavcharges and kill cav while they charge them. Nags can't BLOCK cavcharges but will be the best anti cav infantry unit in any close combat situation.

Weaponupgrades for guns should provide improved guns with a thicker barrel wand (could use larger charges of gunpowder and thus fire heavier balls and inflict more damage).

Bows. Bows have different draws (25-50 lbs), stronger bows can fire heavier arrows which inflict more damage.

I think increased range is an option but would be frustrating in use with human players.

This way the specific roles of units within an army would be better preservered, and the likelyhood that an army of 16 pumped YA will survive a battle is reduced to zero as the 4 shocks of the balanced enemy army will slay them within secs.

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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi

http://www.takiyama.cjb.net

[tootee]

Quote Originally posted by TosaInu:
Konnichiwa,

I think increased range is an option but would be frustrating in use with human players.

[/QUOTE]


This would have been a nice upgrade option for MI, beside the usual weapon and armour upgrade. Imagine the greater playability it could have added to MP.. SA of different ranges, musk of longer range with less armour vs musk of short range with more armour.. cool!

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tootee the goldfish
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