Throne Room

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

... I'll let you guys start this topic. But I hope they have more than one advisor who can talk.

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

a vizier and 5 advisors(economics,defence,general,social and foreign),as for the europeans i dunno...

[Catiline]

they either need to make it much more interactive, or leave it out. As is it just wastes time. After you've seen one ambassador you've seen all of the ugly fellows.

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Et sceleratis sol oritur

[Sword_Monkey]

Quote Originally posted by Catiline:
they either need to make it much more interactive, or leave it out. As is it just wastes time. After you've seen one ambassador you've seen all of the ugly fellows.

[/QUOTE]

I'd rather see them leave it out. I didn't feel it added anything to Shogun for the amount of programming effort even the cheesy, ugly mofos took. Do I really need to listen to a 30 second speech to decide whether or not I'm going to ally with Mori?

I'd much rather they stick to pop-up dialogues. By all means if they want to give these dialogues a little more spice, that's fine, because I can always not read the fluff and just hit yes/no, but the throne room seems a huge waste of effort and time.

[Vanya]

Maybe the Grand Inquisitor will make house calls? Hmmm... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/confused.gif

[spiffy_scimitar]

Animation on rendered models seems excessive. A rendered picture would suit me fine. Even a drawing would be acceptable.

I'm not sure a pop-up with voice excites me much, though. Since we're trying to develop the diplomacy aspect of the game, it wouldn't help to have alliances proposed by a disembodied voice.

[Leet Eriksson]

yeah yeah i think i heard the "we don't need" a lot but for the sake of the newbies and to appeal to a wide audience something must be done to make the game easier for example a fresh(dumb)newbie does'nt know what to do so why don't he ask his defence advisor or the general for advice?they could provide tips on how to attack a province and how much troops they need to accomplish it.the economics advisor could provide hints on how to manage your economy and trade and help adjust your taxes while the foreign advisor will help you about whose your enemy and whose your ally and will also provide tips on how to maintain a longlasting allaince(provide gold your ally so he does'nt backstab you etc etc).

[This message has been edited by faisal (edited 02-27-2002).]

[spiffy_scimitar]

Well, from what I remember (when I realized the throne room was the only advantage to the 1 gig installation I reinstalled), the advisors in Shogun said things like (dramatization http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

"It is easier to walk the trail than to climb the mountain"

That's not constructive advice, and I don't care what wise man said it.

[Vanya]

Quote Originally posted by faisal:
yeah yeah i think i heard the "we don't need" a lot but for the sake of the newbies and to appeal to a wide audience something must be done to make the game easier for example a fresh(dumb)newbie does'nt know what to do so why don't he ask his defence advisor or the general for advice?they could provide tips on how to attack a province and how much troops they need to accomplish it.the economics advisor could provide hints on how to manage your economy and trade and help adjust your taxes while the foreign advisor will help you about whose your enemy and whose your ally and will also provide tips on how to maintain a longlasting allaince(provide gold your ally so he does'nt backstab you etc etc).

[This message has been edited by faisal (edited 02-27-2002).][/QUOTE]

Well... sorta... but advice doesn't always have to be good. A hint is one thing. Advice is another. The throne room bastids should give advice, not hints. That is, they should occasionally advise you to do things that will surely get you into hot water. After all, they are idiots like the rest of the people and that is why they are not King.

[Military Advisor]: I recommend we invade England and conquer that pesky isle thats driving the Frenchies bananas. Then, we will have two fronts to invade France with!

[You think, geez, but here we are in Spain and I have the Almohad hounding my arse in the south and the French attacking over the Pyrennes and the friggin' Italians telling me to keep the faith while they sink my ships at sea... Last thing I need is to have my Atlantic shore attacked by England! But, what the heck! He must know what he's talking about! Thats why I pay him the big bucks!]
["ATTACK ENGLAND" then becomes the final command given by the newbie king...]

[Sword_Monkey]

Quote Originally posted by faisal:
yeah yeah i think i heard the "we don't need" a lot but for the sake of the newbies and to appeal to a wide audience something must be done to make the game easier for example a fresh(dumb)newbie does'nt know what to do so why don't he ask his defence advisor or the general for advice?they could provide tips on how to attack a province and how much troops they need to accomplish it.the economics advisor could provide hints on how to manage your economy and trade and help adjust your taxes while the foreign advisor will help you about whose your enemy and whose your ally and will also provide tips on how to maintain a longlasting allaince(provide gold your ally so he does'nt backstab you etc etc).

[/QUOTE]

So it could be Civ with real time battles, ugh!

One of the worst elements of the civ games is the advisor idea simply because it's impossible to forsee all playing styles, strategies, etc. End result is that you get a lot of half assed "advice" that no one, including the newbie with a clue, pays attention to. Further, given the chronic incorrectness of it, I don't think the programmers give much of a rat's ass either.

If they want to make it accessible, make a tutorial for the strategy portion of the game as well. I learnt more about the combat system from the tutorial level where you had to defeat a unit of Yari Samurai with a unit of Samurai Archers than I would have from 200 advisors.

[Leet Eriksson]

i see but they could make the advisor give useful advice not lameass advice like the ones in Civ III btw a strategic tutorial is a good idea this eleminates the need of advisors.hmmmmm i think if the advisors in the game provide tutorials so when you click on them you are automatically sent to the tutorial section of the game just incase you forgot some thing or needed more tranining while in mid game.

[Sword_Monkey]

Quote Originally posted by faisal:
i see but they could make the advisor give useful advice not lameass advice like the ones in Civ III btw a strategic tutorial is a good idea this eleminates the need of advisors.hmmmmm i think if the advisors in the game provide tutorials so when you click on them you are automatically sent to the tutorial section of the game just incase you forgot some thing or needed more tranining while in mid game.[/QUOTE]

I tend to be against most 'in-game' tutorial stuff -> it means you're coding a game with idiots in mind http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif

Seriously, though, the game should be presented well without handholding elements that get in the way of the vet.

I would like something like the Civlopedia in Civ3. That is a really good example of how to handle in game information. No one ever has to bring up the information, but it's there just by clicking on a link.

One of the things that leads to Shogun's replayability is that the campaign IS the campaign. It's not a series of training exercises that culminate in big spectacular battles and then you put the game on the shelf. Even if you never play MP, there's a lot of game there on those 2 CDs.

Conversely, take a more standard campaign design and it does do the "tutorial" levels and it does have the voice overs instructing you on the best way to use unit; and the game's have all the replayability of a rock no matter how good they were one time through.

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Remember when MI/WE was coming out and everyone wanted the throne room to be adapted so that the Geisha was able to do things.

I want to throne room personally, it gives me a sense of being in charge not just playing a game. They come to me not just pop-up as a picture.

But the chance to have advisors who actually speak the truth is would be very handy.

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Man my english is bad for a British citizen. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

look akhi i think you don't understand very well who said in game tutorials are for stupid players?its just for the poeple who jump in the game while not knowing what to do and forgot or ignored the turorials it won't handhold anything for the vet if you don't want it just don't click on it thats all and i think a civilopeda like civ III is a good idea.

[This message has been edited by faisal (edited 03-01-2002).]

[Whitey]

I think he was referring to the throne room advice being for stupid people, not the tutorials - it is eye candy, true, but not for stupid people, it takes a freaking genius to figure out what the bleedin' heck that blighter of an advisor thinks he's tryin' to say...at least for me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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"Situation excellente. J'attaque!"

[Leet Eriksson]

that advisor in shogun said something that can't be done in the game how the heck i'm gonna sharpen my blade if i don't know how to sharpen it there is no building where i can sharpen a blade so it does'nt become dull.... :P mybe i understand what he said"keep your solders sharp so if they were ambushed you have the upper hand"maybe"Keep your sooldiers on the move or they will become dull"gaghgh advisors are just plain eye candy i don't think they are useful http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

I think that the advisor in the throne room was just quoting some stuff from a well known book....Just can't remember wich one http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

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Yes the camel sprites do look good, hope they sound good also...

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Kuma it was from Sun Tzu's Art of War.

P.S. Kuma get into general or clan forums and sign-up for the new online campaign.

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif

[Leet Eriksson]

OK so they brought the advice form a well known book but what use do they do in the game?the game does'nt involve sharpening a blade or feeding troops you know.

[Jaguara]

Quote Originally posted by faisal:
OK so they brought the advice form a well known book but what use do they do in the game?the game does'nt involve sharpening a blade or feeding troops you know.[/QUOTE]

Why is there a sunroof in your car, it doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of the car?

The answer is aesthetics and atmosphere.

[Hirosito]

i agree and sarcasm really does get lost a lot on the internet doesn't it? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif Toda

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Hirosito Mori

Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.

[Leet Eriksson]

Quote Originally posted by Jaguara:
Why is there a sunroof in your car, it doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of the car?

The answer is aesthetics and atmosphere.[/QUOTE]

or plain eye candy http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

Originally posted by Toda Nebuchadnezzar:
Kuma it was from Sun Tzu's Art of War.

P.S. Kuma get into general or clan forums and sign-up for the new online campaign.

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http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif Got ya!

Thanks for the invitation but my limited game playing time is now limited to one game and STW/MI ain't it (Though i will switch to Med TW as soons as it gets out)



[This message has been edited by Sir Kuma of The Org (edited 03-02-2002).]

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

Fair nuff! Whatever turns you on Kuma

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif

[Sir Kuma of The Org]

I won't get in to that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

This is a general public forum

[Toda Nebuchadnezzar]

LOL what if we got to OT?? Wait i'll leave that there..

This small conversation between Toda and Kuma is officially closed http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif