View Full Version : MTW. Beta testing with the same 1.02 testers?
Will there be a chance that CA will conduct beta testing just like what they did for MI patch 1.02 to fine tune the engine/stat? It was quite a success then.
If so I will volunter my service.
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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Hirosito
03-10-2002, 07:41
you selfless bastard http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
ooohhhh me too me too . .. but i have a feeling it will be the same ppl as b4 . . and no one else http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
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The practice of war is much like making love to a woman - an activity full of delights, but none of them predictable and the best of them capable of inflicting grievous injury on a man
WarlordWarrior
of course it will be the same people as before, why, only if someone important like me asked would they admit people in, but I won't for fear that I'll have too much say on the game design...I've got to be fair and let lesser minds have their chance http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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"Situation excellente. J'attaque!"
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-10-2002, 18:40
Guys there will definately be one new person to test the beta version.
If any of you know YamagaNoFear then you know he was a beta tester, and he has now given STW and MI to his cousin because of CA in general.
(Just to put forward his views - all of his ideas to make the game better, were ignored!) Therefore he has given up on CA and on STW. Which is a shame.
So a bit of advice hopeful beta testers, dont expect them to listen to you if you put forward an idea.
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
Dark Phoenix
03-10-2002, 21:07
Thats a real shame Neb he was one of the nicest members of the community and also had a lot of good ideas.
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"DP is correct" - Shiro
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We may have years, we may have hours,
but sooner or later, we push up flowers
Erado San
03-10-2002, 22:39
Yamaga was a beta tester for patch 1.12 for Shogun only. I don't remember him being involved in any patch for Mongols or Warlord.
But CA not listening...? It was very different and Yamaga knows that. They did listen to his ideas, but they did not use his ideas because that was not the game they intended to make. And for good reasons too in my opinion. The fact that you have an idea does not mean that they don't listen if they don't use them.
CA don't listen to us? Give me a break! They let us make patch 1.02 and did everything we needed to make it, including the option to have different troop numbers as an option in the troop stats.
Then when we were finished they didn't like it at first, but still listened at our reasons for what we did and our explanations, and then gave it up for release.
But I can't say if they will use us or anybody for any testing. I haven't heard a thing about it yet. If I had, I probably still couldn't tell you a thing about it though :-)
According to an interview by Michael de Plater there will be some testing for 'the beta testers they had used before'. There certainly won't be a public beta like some games have, but the signs are there will be a demo battle trainer version like we had for Shogun.
[This message has been edited by Erado San (edited 03-10-2002).]
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-10-2002, 23:55
Erado man I know everyone has their own take on things. But according to Yama that was his view.
Did you get his letter to Richie, was all writing and 120Kb. He had a lot to say about most things.
I did actually mean beta tester for 1.12 not MI. Mistake soz.
But still the fact that according to most people I chat to his ideas would have made the game better.
But thats just another view of the arguement.
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
It would be useful for the testing to be done by a different crowd all together. They would introduce a fresh look with new ideas and perceptions rather than reinforce old ones.
If you look at the list of the current 1.02 beta testers you will realise that all of them are experts either in the tech field or in the gameplay field, and all have been playing and investigating this game a very long time.
As far as I know, De Plater said we're gonna test it, I hope we are. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif Maybe they would want more testers, so some have the possibility too.
And if CA doesn't listen to us they wouldn't have trusted ALL the work on the patch to the external betas. CA want professional and serious support, and 1.02 is a living proof...whenever we needed something or help, CA ALWAYS gave it to us...
Neb, I know yama from over a year and I share his ideas a lot, but his ideas were not viable in my opinion, and that's why CA didn't listen I am forced to think.
Our work was mostly on patch development, while Yama's ideas were actually of a totally new game - and one of CA's guidelines for beta testing was to not change the game too much.
And Yama's ideas surely didn't conform with that.
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Kraellin
03-11-2002, 02:02
i have to go with erado on this one. CA has proven several times over that they do listen to us. that they were willing to dump the game into our laps and say, 'here, you guys think you can do better, go for it.', was rather remarkable. ok, it wasnt quite that rude ;) and not only did they give us this opportunity they also worked with us on it. we'd find something, like the fatigue not working right and go, 'hey, can you fix this first so we can get the right test results here?', and lo and behold we'd get back a fixed fatigue executable.
we poured over this stuff and each time we'd submit some new changes or proposals we'd get back some new code or at least why this or that couldnt be done in the time we had to do it.
that we have target and longjohn come in here and answer our questions from time to time, also shows that they care about what we think.
what i think would be a great idea would be to have a closed forum set up somewhere with a select group of folks from this forum and the folks from CA and DT, that could discuss various aspects of the game on a realistic, level-headed basis. someplace the dev guys could feel comfortable and not overwhelmed by a lot of rants, whines, and 'you bastards owe me your first born' type of 'talk'. some folks tend to forget that simple courtesy opens the door to communication, and that the lack of it can close it just as fast.
now, i'm not pointing any individual fingers here, but if i were a dev guy i wouldnt EVER go near the .com forum and i've seen a post or two in here that would tend to shie me away also. we create the environment here, each and every one of us. so, are we creating a safe environment where the dev guys dont mind coming for a cup of joe and discussing things, or are we lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce with hidden axes.
one other simple thing we tend to forget. they are creating something. ever have someone standing over your shoulder while you work at creating something of your own? it's their baby. they bring it to fruition and then release it to us. do we praise what they've done right, as well as chew them up for what we consider is not right? it's the old carrot and the stick. too much 'stick' and guess what's going to happen to communication.
i make maps. regardless of whether i get paid for this or not, i tend to like hearing responses about this. did folks like this or that map. when they do like one, i'm like an old tom cat that's just had his fur stroked. rub me the wrong way and i'll show my claws. the dev guys are prolly somewhat similar at times.
when you ask for this or that change, tweak, revision or addition, what are you basically saying to the originator; you're saying, essentially, that's wrong. you did something wrong; it shld be this way. folks tend to not like to be wrong. trust me on this one ;) thus, you can have the most kick-ass idea in the universe, but if you present it in terms of trying to force it on others or chopping them up or chopping their ideas up in order to get your own implemented, you've just goofed.
we sometimes tend to operate on the basis of trying to overwhelm everything. we'll just boycott the company, or some such thing, to try and get them to capitulate to us. i've seen this done in the game community before. it always fails. what it does do is add more distance between the creators and the end-users and things tend to get worse, not better.
there's a thread or two going now that is an attempt to change a few things from stw/we/mi into the new m:tw. as each new person jumps on the wagon we are essentially adding more force, leading again up to an attempt to overwhelm...at least it has this potential. i'm sure the dev guys have read this and i hope the community as a whole has the sense to know when to say, 'ok, there's my idea; if you like it, it's yours. if you dont, well, that's ok also.'. cause the bottom line here is that this is their game. they made it. it's their world, their universe. they are the gods of this universe and can alter it as they see fit. we're simply visitors, by way of purchasing a ticket into it. we can certainly offer up suggestions about changing that universe, but to expect those changes to be implemented...well, it's their universe. we dont have to buy the ticket to visit, and they're well aware of this fact, but to demand this or that or even expect this or that, well, it's nice when it happens, but i dont lose any sleep when it doesnt.
i'll be purchasing the ticket to the universe of m:tw, just to see what they've done. i think the guys at CA have done an incredible job with a difficult task and i look forward to seeing the next universe called m:tw. if they've implemented some of the things we've asked for, well great! if not, i'll still be taking the tour. stw/we/mi was an E ticket ride and even if m:tw is only a D ticket, it'll still be worth the price of admission. i'm just hoping it'll be an F ticket ;)
as for a pre-release beta test group, i think we all realize this is a matter of trust. erado has been in communication with the folks at CA for a long time. he's built this trust up for a long while, so when he asked CA to allow us to test for the 1.02 patch, he naturally asked others he could trust. the folks he picked were all long-standing community members who had contributed in various ways to the community and the game. so, if the dev guys do allow a pre-release beta test, it would most likely be to this same group or at least to folks that have shown a trust to the community thru various contributions.
ok, that's my lecture for the day. the next will be held at UCLA, 10:30 a.m., main auditorium. price of admission is only $50. ;)
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Hirosito
03-11-2002, 03:07
i'm there
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Hirosito Mori
Gentile or Jew
O you who turn the wheel and look to windward,
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you.
Erado San
03-11-2002, 03:30
You are right about Yama's ideas. I have had numerous discussions on them with him myself, and especially about his 2v2 Rules.
I liked his ideas, but they would make for a totally different game. Some of his ideas would definitely not fit in the current AI engine at all. The majority of his ideas could however be implemented by making a totally new set of stats files, and during the 1.02 we even tried a bit of them. We realized though that that path would take us a very long time to develop correctly, and then we'd still have serious trouble convincing a) CA and b) the majority of the community that that was the way to go.
If you know Yama's ideas well enough, you know that they are working ONLY for a small group of the community, those that set realism above anything else. In my view the majority here puts gameplay above realism, and that is the reason why his ideas probably were not taken into account.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-11-2002, 03:33
I guess I put realism above gameplay which is why I agree with Yama.
But I will follow the age old saying, I agree to disagree with you guys on this one. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
seriously though, some of you guys put so much time and effort into the game its almost as though you were actually part of CA yourselves...as for beta testers, seriously (unlike in my post above http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif ) the best option is to use the guys from MI 1.02 patch, a different set of Shogun players, and, if possible, a set of 'virgins' to the Total War engine - this, however, would be difficult to set up...but I do think it would be somewhat of a cop out if CA resorted to using the same testers from MI 1.02 and 1.02 only...although you have there an undeniably fantastic group of players, you also have, 1) the shogun perspective on any future TW game 2) a focus towards more multiplayer balancing and 3)no fresh angle on developments.
As such, I argue that it would be damaging to MTW to be tested by only the same testers - in no way am I saying that I should be one of the new testers, for a start my contributions to the comunity have been few and far between, I would not deserve such a post - but I would hope that CA at least consider the need for 'new blood' so to speak...
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"Situation excellente. J'attaque!"
[This message has been edited by Whitey (edited 03-11-2002).]
Great post Krae, but hey, they let us make all the changes we wanted, but where is the naked geisha patch?!?! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
ehehe,
Tera.
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)
Erado San
03-11-2002, 08:33
My last word on the beta testing. Any selection of beta testers for anything will always be done by CA. Maybe they will use the group they know they can trust, or they will announce something and invite others. This is all pure speculation at this stage. If the old group gets involved then none of you will hear about any testing. You can bet your bottom dollar though that with this group I have no fear whatsoever that new games will become more like STW/MI/WE because of our comments. We started with an empty page on 1.02 and so will we at a new game.
But I and the other testers are still bound by NDA's, stopping us from revealing information about the testing. Now it's plain that that mainly applies for the period during the testing, but already in this thread there is one bit of information that I personally could have done without becoming public. So you won't hear any more from me. If ever, the first news you will hear about beta news will be coming from CA.
Quote Originally posted by Whitey:
I would hope that CA at least consider the need for 'new blood' so to speak...
[/QUOTE]
new blood here! new blood here! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
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tootee the goldfish,
headmaster of Shogun-Academy (http://shogun-academy.tripod.com)
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MagyarKhans Cham
03-18-2002, 07:48
like it or not, erado is right
throw the mizuclan into the testing arena, add up some gamemasters and u have a damn fine soup, huu i mean group.
AMPmortog
03-18-2002, 15:15
i might have missed this some where but why cant beta testing be open to all with an added forum where the beta of medieval can be disscused by all and everyone can share ideas on improvements.
Magyar Khan
03-18-2002, 19:02
that would be best but sadly wont work... u should know that
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Erado San:
Yamaga was a beta tester for patch 1.12 for Shogun only. I don't remember him being involved in any patch for Mongols or Warlord.
That's bc i didnt have connection at that point in time, ed. But i helped Tosa with unitstats for a couple of weeks PRIOR to release of 1.02b. Out of compassion of course http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
[b]But CA not listening...? It was very different and Yamaga knows that. They did listen to his ideas, but they did not use his ideas because that was not the game they intended to make. And for good reasons too in my opinion. The fact that you have an idea does not mean that they don't listen if they don't use them.
Ed, I am amazed at this. CA has nothing to lose from new ideas, and only good things to earn. I have a pdf with a lot of issues and bugs noted down i never sent them, and if u tell me that making the allied chat in yellow and the to all chat in white (or black if ground is snowy) is a bad idea and they did it right not to listen, then i fear we have lost compass and don't know anymore what's good or bad for community. [mere example of the chat color. No intention to post other issues, that would be useless]
Furthenmore, when one listens, he replies to mails. When one doesn't listen, he lets u be a ZERO as being betatester was a torture to withstand with smile on your face.
Just as a coincidence, yesterday i signalled a bug on the ART section of falcon4sp project site. I am beta there. This morning i spoke to the dev of the ART and to the CODER of the art section. My issue was solved in a matter of instants. THAT is what a beta does and THAT is how a company acts to better a game. I currently have posted 7 issues. It's only a matter of time before i see them solved for the pleasure of all the community. I speak to the head of G2i daily, to the coders and to all the other 200 betatesters via groups. CA is just not up to it.
Nebu is right, they just don't listen. I am sure they have reasons not to, i mean, i know they do. It's sad anyway. Nobody's fault. Who's born round can't die squared.
CA don't listen to us? Give me a break! They let us make patch 1.02 and did everything we needed to make it, including the option to have different troop numbers as an option in the troop stats.
Ed, we lost most players, i have never seen a lobby with more than 6 players in morning and 40 at night (only in weekends). UT had last night almost 2400 players...u think they listen ? then why ALL are leaving ?
Lemme tell you that direct IP connection was asked to bypass that S H I T T Y EA server and was NOT granted on purpose. Same for gamespy connection and so on...
As to the gamestats editable, if u edit, and game is not compatible (meaning if I host with my stats, the program doesn't update clients' stats therefore causing loss of sync) will u tell me what's the purpose of editing ?
Do u know that edited game is seen by server as hacked and i kept on being disconnected ?
Is this policy ENABLING users to edit ?
I can edit terrain and make a map then why stw server doesn't automatically update maps on other user ? we really HAVE to download them from a site ? (damned 100k map files...and there we go 90% games on totomi or ironing boards)
We're on 2 different worlds really http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
CA has no intention to update. they just wanna sell. 1.2 ----> 1.3 only fixed the Nvidia compatibility. I was there Ed, and u know stw needed MORE than that.
Odd....if u read the mails, u would understand. I am just sorry i can't publish. It's my personal quarrel with Simpson.
I think guys u should move to other games, and see how the beta/developer/coder relationship works there if u can make it to be beta. Its about one new EXE released per week and DAILY tests with more than just 10 testers.
U should also open your eyes a bit too much and see the same old probs were in stw1.2 are still in mi 1.02b.
I am certain i will never hear anything against CA in ANY forum. Quite frankly, the avg number of players and player's attitude is evidence enough that what i say is true.
It is sooo sad, that even with the truth before your eyes you refuse to admit. And it's this fracture within the community which sould aks CA UNITED for patching and bug squashing that gives them free way to go on as they choose. Some leave, some try. Some lie, some carry on uncaring. That's how CA could go from a bugged game to the third sequel undisturbed.
I believe realism comes next to gameplay. If game is based on war, then it HAS to be done realistically, else, better play AVP or UT or other arcade games. They call on sun tzu then DARE telling me the game is historically accurate, with hordes of monks on the field http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I uninstalled. I gave the CD to my cousin. End of the story. No problem.
Now, if someone can help my cousin in removing the pir8 line in the win registry he will be able to install my original game and play it (he is 15 so he's perfect for the game as it is)...otherwise he will drop it and move on as many many many others did or are about to do.
Look at the number of players guys. Look at the standardized battles, same koku, same armies, same maps, same problems. Look at the online campaign, missing. It's an issue present from first stw to now. Is this "listening to community" ?
Enough...i came here bc Tosa told me to see.
I will NOT reply and will not read further. Just thought i would tell how things really are, if anyone cares or believes of course.
Keep dreaming guys. And keep buying. Ain't the art of war, it's the art of trickery! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
this message has been edited many times due to the things i know i can't say here
I repeat, look at the number of players.
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-19-2002, 01:33
Which is why I posted my first post in this thread they way I did. Yama's post speaks for it all.
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
Yama might have some valid points there, and some of them are very true.
However, my point of view is much simpler...
The game maybe unrealistic, crap, unsupported, unbalanced, dying, annoying...
but I still love it http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif And I will be happy to do everything to make it better - I am trying to do that through .Org and I look forward to do that by testing the new games.
You tried to do miracles Yama, it is NONSENSE to compare this game and how CA works with how the dev team of Falcon 4 works or any other team. They're different games, different communities, different perspectives.
You maybe right, but at least for me I will keep buying and working for the game + community ; I will keep dreaming, I will keep enjoying the art of trickery, because I love to do so! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif And the fact that Shogun is a fine wine that can't be opened, makes me feel more motivated to dang open it and give it to the masses...
Tera.
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
evil is within us... http://terazawa.totalwar.org/emo.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)
MagyarKhans Cham
03-19-2002, 03:03
good post yama, many truth in it.
my Khan too doubted whomever would ever listen to whatever he/we said by then. i remember the funniest moment that my Khan got a beta-patch but it was even worse on some aspects and didnt adress 1000 others.
my khan dont care about 100% historical accuracy since it might end up in what noone would like to play besides 2 purist wargamers (u and me). the jap section is ok now, but the mongols are still unbalanced. it would be a miracle if CA is able to balance the game for TWM, 100 units might end up in a mess. I myself get an headache already.
the testers were abused in the first stage and even at the start of middle stage (MI) but with little steps and handy manouvring esp. Ed tries to get some grip on the testing progress.
When we look to our "bosses" spreading confidence and showing patience may pay off. If this process fails for STW medieval, which means if teh game is released without 1 single betatester had seen it than my Khan gives up as well.
"Its hard to direct a blind donkey, but still it is able to smell the carrot"
and
"a Khan without enemies is like a gamedeveloper without betatesters")
(freely translated into english as with all my typings)
Kraellin
03-19-2002, 22:28
yama,
get a grip, bubba. comparing CA to the falcon guys is apples to oranges. CA is a young team. small compared to some of the mega game companies out there. and comparing stw's online numbers to falcon or some other game is ridiculous. it never had the numbers to begin with. do you EVER recall seeing more than 200 folks online at any given time? i doubt it. strat games, in general, never do as well as other types.
that you enjoy a close relationship with one company's dev guys and that they can afford to be responsive to your every whim is certainly a nice thing...it is also a rare thing. i've beta tested before, professionally, and yer lucky to hear squat from anyone. they send you the test program, you test it, fill out a report, and get not so much as a thank-you in response.
i also find that your targetting of CA as the 'bad guys' here is mis-directed. CA doesnt own the game. they are hired guns. what i find truly amazing is that those that keep 'finding fault', tend to target the wrong guys. i also find it interesting that nobody directs these types of comments to Dreamtime or mr. de plater directly. in my estimation, CA has done what it could to help us out. since they dont own the game, they cant just make changes at their own will, or least not major changes, i would think.
and even if CA could make whatever changes it wants, at any time it wants, i'm not sure they feel they can afford to. as you've already pointed out, stw doesnt have many online users, which also means that it didnt sell as well as diablo2, or baldur's gate, or any other big title release. i doubt the guys at CA are starving, but i also doubt they have unlimited resources either.
now, that doesnt mean that everything on your wish list isnt valid. i've a rather large number of things i'd like to see 'fixed' also, but let's get real here. i've worked with coders and artists. i spent an entire summer with 2 VERY gifted coders once, (one now teaches microsoft guys how to code, the other is doing honors courses at a prestigious university), and trust me, working with code isnt the easiest of things to deal with. tracking down one simple bug can take a matter of days, not hours or minutes. and then fixing it...heh.
i dont think you're going to be happy with M:TW either. i suggest you simply move on to something else or take up coding. what yer looking for just isnt going to happen here.
K.
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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.
Good post Krae http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Part of your excellent post was my previous post translated into readable language... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Tera.
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)
Jesus, guys:
Have you ever realized the the VAST MAJORITY of shogun community DON'T PLAY ON-LINE SEVEN DAYS A WEEK, 24 HOURS A DAY?
Yeah, there might be 200 hard-core on-line players at the best time, per night, big deal.
I think CA should pay much more attention to single-player.
For that's where most of their profit comes from, and that's where the players should have their say.
[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 03-19-2002).]
You are right Gothmod, SP is still very much popular and it is very important; but MP is the future of games...you wouldn't be here without the Internet...and the challenge that MP gives you is something not comparable to SP.
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Proud member of Clan Kenchikuka (http://www.kenchi.cjb.net/).
evil is within us... http://www.totalwar.org/site/emomalta.gif
Visit my resource site here! (http://terazawa.totalwar.org/)
Well, I agree that the game community is better united with the internet. But not necessarily the game itself.
As a matter of fact, single-player (aka, off-line) will always remain a significant and in most cases more important part of the game play.
Many who play games don't have flexible time-frame, many have jobs and family obligations. Not everyone can dedicate a time-block to play on-line, but everyone can just rise 3 in the morning, play half an hour, save the game, then go back to sleep http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by Gothmog (edited 03-19-2002).]
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-20-2002, 01:18
They could still impliment some of the ideas. Almost all of the ideas in this Forum however small are worth putting in just for a better game. (except the villagers! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif)
But CA it seems want to go it alone, to get the credit, which is rightfully due them because they developed the game.But they are not looking outside of CA and so the game is let down by that. IMO
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
The WE/MI v1.02 beta team did accomplish some important things. We identified the cause of the excessive rate of fatigue, and that was fixed by CA. The cavalry was revamped, and is now a very important component of any army without creating an unstoppable cav rush situation. If you remember, the NC rush was murderous in the v1.01. Every unit was tested 1v1 at H2, and adjusted if necessary to keep the rock, paper, scissors structure strong. Modifiable online stats for friendly games were reinstated by CA for us. That's a big one, and could be used to develop an alternate set of unit stats for online play that are superior to the v1.02. The difficulty there is that the online community is so small you probably can't get enough players together who are willing to use an alternate stat.
The v1.02 could have been better if more people could have been used for battle testing. If the community gets a chance to beta test MTW, I think a larger group would be better, but anyone who gets involved should have a serious interest in improving the game and adhere to any NDA they sign. I would expect that since longjohn is back onboard now with CA that any beta testing by us of MTW would be strictly a bug hunt.
MizuYuuki ~~~
i think this is the longest page i have eber been to!
Konnichiwa,
There seems to be a Them vs Us attitude. Online vs offline.
While the very reason to start creating 1.02 was online gaming, everything has been extensively tested in offline play: full campaigns, historical battles and custom battles. Changes that would have been great are not implemented because they would upset the balance in offline gaming.
I think offline gaming has improved a lot, it has improved because stats were changed because online games didn't work. Besides that, the fatigue bug has been fixed by CA.
Stating that changes for online games won't make offline any better is not true.
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Ja mata
Toda MizuTosaInu
Daimyo Takiyama Shi
http://www.takiyama.cjb.net
Toda Nebuchadnezzar
03-20-2002, 02:20
Unfortunately this is now a one sided debate (in a way) because Yama will not come back here without being pushed by Tosa (and a little kick by me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif)
But still I think we have all got a better understanding now of what has gone on. Whether you agree with either side I think we are all a little wiser.
Well thats my moral for the day!
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Grand Master of
The Knights Templar
"non nobis Domine non nobis sed Nomine tuo da gloriam"
http://www.gifs.net/animate/aniyin.gif
in my view, its a question of how many play the game online?
and how many just offline, imo some little percent play it online, i dont know how often this game was sold, but how we can se ajust around 1600 players are registerd on the org....
so we are just a few... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
but this games are made for some 100.000 players so mabe 99% of the guys play offline and never will find out what u can do with this battles, if u remember ur time as u played offline and moved ur army... well... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
how u moved ur army? ........ and
how u move it now? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
so the focus is always on this 99% of players and for this guys it isnt so important to create a nice balanced game...
and mag got the point, i dont believe that its possible to balance 100 different units...
i saw how dificult it was to balance the current units and still there are some things wich should be changed...
so, how in the world we will balance 6 times more units....
mabye u cant play with all vs all, this could solve some probs...
but how i said this game is made for the majority and we are definatly minority... http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif
maybe the times will change...
to CA, the work of them with the patch 1,02 was great, just with them it was possible to go for such a succes, and this 1,02 is a succes!
..and we shouldnt forget this isnt a shooter or an arcade game, in MI every day comes new tactics and all is possible... u cant do this in arcade games!
to make a patch to find the bugs and to solve it its imo much harder.
the mizu´s can tell this http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
...we are a small community, we know each other well, since near 2 years now...i dont want 2500 or more players where i dont know each other, i love to talk with other guys...
its like a little family this make us strong...
kocmoc
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