Imperial Diet III

[econ21]

[OOC] This thread is for players in the King of the Romans PBM to post in character public deliberations in the Imperial Diet. All out of character debate should be conducted in the OOC thread.

The Diet has two main functions: to elect a Chancellor, who manage the Empire, and to pass Edicts that will direct the Chancellor.

The Diet will be chaired by the Kaiser or, while he is in the Levant, by the Diet Speaker. The Prinz may deputise if both are unavailable.

Edicts need to be formally proposed as follows:

Edict 9.1This House directs the Chancellor to occupy Hamburg.

where 9.1 refers to the first proposed edict of the ninth session of the Diet.

Edicts need two seconders (who should explicitly use the word "second" when supporting a motion) before they can be put to the vote. Where edicts conflict, the one with more votes takes precedence.


*****

List of edicts and charter amendments proposed in the Ninth Diet.

*Charter Amendment 9.1:

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward).

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.2, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain an additional +1 influence (over and above any influence for being a Count of a European settlement) but only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 5 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

Proposed: Kaiser Henry
Seconded: Arnold, Maximilian von Tyrolia


*Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:

In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

Proposed: Kaiser Henry
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, Prinz Jobst


Charter Amendment 9.3:

Army of the Chancellor's Office

The member in who is elected Chancellor will have a special Army assigned to his office and will only be in charge of that Army till his term in office ends and a new Chancellor is elected.

1) The Chancellor’s Army may not be removed from the HRE proper without the permission of the Emperor.
2) The Chancellor will determine where the Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time in accordance with the needs of defense of the Empire.
3) The Chancellor will command the Army but at this discretion may assign a noble to lead that army. An example being if the Chancellor is not physical in HRE Europe he may have a noble in charge but movements would be that of the Chancellor.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Chancellor may assign general orders to the Army. The Chancellor may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House to defend. If Order (4) is chosen, the Chancellor may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment. When the time limit expires, the Chancellor Army must be immediately returned to homeland defence duties, no matter what other circumstances occur.
5) The Chancellor Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiment. The Chancellor Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Chancellor Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Chancellor Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Army’s full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Chancellor Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Emperor.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Chancellor Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Emperor and receive their permission to reduce the Chancellor Army in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

Proposed: Karl Zirn


*Charter Amendment 9.4:

Each Duke may designate a Second Household Army during a Diet session. The military formation that can be designated as a Second Household Army is subject to the following conditions:

1. The formation must be within the territory of the Duchy.
2. The formation must be commanded by an Army Commander belonging to the Duchy.
3. The formation must be at least 6 regiments in strength at the time of designation.

Proposed: Gunther von Kastilien
Seconded: Arnold, Anselhelm von Kastilien


Charter Ammendment 9.5: "Three independent Crusader lordships shall be carved out of the Outremer:

The Principality of Antioch, consisting of Antioch itself and all Cilicia(Adana)
The County of Tripoli, consisting of Lebanon(Acre).
The County of Edessa, consisting of Mesoptamia(Edessa).

These lordships shall be autonomous parts of the Reich.

As such, they are authorised to:

Maintain a standing army of at least 8 units.
Issue orders for their standing army.
Dictate the order of construction in their settlements.
Appoint their successors.
Decide what fortifications(forts and watchtowers) shall be constructed in their realm.
Elect a King of the Outremer from among their number to oversee the Council of Crusaders.
Debate legislation in the Council of Crusaders, which if passed must be followed the Imperial Diet."

Proposed: Ulrich Hummel


Edict 9.1:

The Reich shall create a Grand Army of Iberia under the same minimum troop levels and limitations as Household Armies. The army shall sail to Iberia and make landfall on Moorish or Spanish land, where they can conquer all non-Portuguese cities. As a token of our good will and for economic safety, at least one city or castle bordering the Mediterranean shall be granted back to Portugal. These lands shall not be granted to any house until Iberia is cleansed of Moors or Spaniards, and thus will remain under direct Imperial control.

Proposed: Maximilian von Tyrolia


*Edict 9.2: Prinz Jobst is hereby barred from having any military command for the entirety of the upcoming Chancellor's term.

Proposed: Conrad Salier
Seconded: Anselhelm von Kastilien, Bavarian Lawyer (TinCow)


*Edict 9.3: The Chancellor must dispatch armies and/or fleets to aid our Allies in battle. By the end of his term, the Chancellor must have somehow managed to lend military assistance to an ally that is attacking or being attacked by a foe. (At least one army or fleet of the HRE must act as reinforcements to an ally where the battle was not initiated by the HRE.)

Proposed: Bavarian Lawyer (TinCow)
Seconded: Maximilian von Tyrolia, Otto von Kassel


*Edict 9.4: A spy will be dispatched to Denmark to investigate the causes of the Danish incident. The battlefield will also be examined for possible clues and the Prinz and his commanders will be questioned as to the events of that day.

Proposed: Otto von Kassel
Seconded: Arnold, Leopold


Edict 9.5:

More effort shall be put into the defense of the Reich's home borders. At the moment we have the Hungarians, the Poles and the Rus at our Eastern Borders and due to the mistake by the Prinz we got into trouble with the Danes in the North and West. Next to that we also have our French enemies in the West. In order to secure home security the following will be done:
1. More effort shall be put into fighting the Eastern Barbarians. This is done by allowing the Franconian and Austrian Household Armies to open the attack to the East.
2. If Edict 9.2 doesn't get through the Prinz will move his army to the East to fight the Rus. The addition of his army on our Eastern Front will easely tip the balance in our favour.
3. We shall start a Teutonic Crusade against the Barbarians and drive them back to their steps. The Steppes are open and big. Once there our Eastern Border will be more then well secured and we won't have to worry about the Barbarians anymore.
4. The Teutonic Crusade does not have to be an official Crusade sponsored by the Pope, we are more then capable to do it on our own.The Prinz's army could act as the Crusade army. He of course will get additional units of Teutonic Knights.

Proposed: Ansehelm von Kastilien


*Edict 9.6:

From the men assembled in Ragusa a Crusade for Damascus will be created as soon as possible. Any general wishing to join the Crusade shall be able to particpate. The Crusade will take the fastest possible route towards Outremere.

Proposed: Leopold
Seconded: Otto von Kassel, Hans


Edict 9.7: The House of Swabia will be allowed to take French territories until they plea for peace or is reconciled.

Proposed: Friedrich Scherer

*********************************************************
Diet Speaker: How time flies! I hope that my Lords have noticed that Kaiser Henry has posted his first Chancellor's report. While he is currently in the Levant and not able to attend this Diet in person, he would welcome deliberation and debate on our progress and predicaments in his absence.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

So far your term as Chancellor has started well, it seems we have never had a rotten chancellor!

I first of all, congratulate you,Kaiser, on your spectacular win over the heathens.

Now to what you say on your term. I like the idea of..modernising the Household Armies. Your idea also of dicthing the peasent troops seems good as well, they were mere fodder.

But I don't like this idea of money for peace with Venice and Milan. Our treasury is quite low as of now, we need not to beg for peace from then, even to please The Pope. The Pope is already pleased with The Reich!! It is money needed here for The Reich's defense and economic growth.I say they come begging on their knees!

I say we let them squel in their little hidey holes on those wrecthed islands!

Prinz Jobst sits

[OverKnight]

Gunther nods and speaks:

My master the Duke agrees with the Prinz. If we need florins to modernize our forces, we should not be spending one florin more than 5,000 on the Milanese. If they refuse the sanctioned amount, we should continue on to the second part of edict 8.1. We could put the money gained from sacking Corsica and selling Sardinia to the Sicilians to good use while enhancing our security.

[AussieGiant]

A young man stands in the livery of the Duke of Austria, he bares a striking resemblance to the Duke in fact, he begins speaking in a rather nervous voice

As the Count of Venice is away in Sweden he has asked me to read the following message My Lords.

“Kaiser Henry, My Prince, Dukes of the Reich, Diet Speaker, Counts and Electors,

And so the blood shed begins in earnest.

I must congratulate the Kaiser for an outstanding victory against the Egyptian forces.

Regarding his statements in the Chancellor report I would like to make the following comments.

Points one through three are commendable and necessary. I have already begun to see a dramatic increase in our own economy now that many obsolete units are not being paid by the treasury. Of course this new surplus is now being immediately reinvested in new troops, but the sacking of Antioch has reaped a large profit.

It is point four that I would like to address in more detail. While I understand we are bound by edict to disengage from the Moors, I would like to do this in the most honourable way possible. Having invested much time in lucrative trade between out nations I would like to, at the very least, not jeopardise this work. Additionally we do need to begin some form of engagement with our European and Christian brothers. If we are to focus our military might against the Islamic nations we must develop strong and sustaining relations with our more like minded brothers. In the short term this will be somewhat costly, but in the long term we must create this type of structure if we are to sustain our military in the East AND at home.

I recommend a series of diplomatic engagements to “sound out” those nations with whom we could improve our relations with as small an investment as possible. Think of it as a foreign policy scheme in which we are trying to assess what our maximum return on diplomatic investment would be.

We need a reputation of good standing in order for our merchant class and therefore our economy to flourish. The initial costs we bare now will be returned with much greater interest in the mid to long term.

I'd also like to note the position the Kaiser has bestowed on....ahhh Prinz Ulrich...are there constitutional issues to discuss with this declaration? Do we have a second realm beginning in the East?”


With a confident finish the young man stops speaking…realises there is nothing more to say and takes a seat. A few of the Venitian Count’s entourage whisper words of encouragement and slap his back appreciatively.

[Stig]

The young man Ansehelm stands and speaks

"Mein Kaiser, mein Prinz und meine Herren, some of you have spoken the wish to modernise our Household armies. While in itself this is a good idea we must remember that we will spend loads of money in what will happen the following years. We wish to make peace with the Milanese, however if they refuse we want to send an expedition to attack them. We wish to attack Krakow, and for this we need seige weapons. We wish to attack the French and in order for this to succeed we need to spend money. We wish peace with Venetia, but if they refuse we want to attack them as well.
And I'm not even speaking of our crusade against the Muslim.

This all means we are spending a great amount of money on warfare and making peace, while at this we are also spending money on upgrading the armies that need to attack.

I suggest we first have our armies attack and see what we're left with. That money can then be put into replacing the armies. Units of obsolete soldiers that have recieved many damage can be retreated to cities and serve as garrisons, while they are not reinforced by new units and merge with other damaged units. Their places can then be taken by the new units. This is the cheapest and most effective way if we want to stay our of the red."

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

While I agree that the Household Armies do need to be modernized, I think there is a more pressing point in regards to these armies: namely, their use. I am sure that some of the elder Electors present can recall the initial discussion of the Household Armies in the Session of 1140. It was made clear by its primary advocates that the Armies were to be used primarily for defense. Defense of the homeland, especially.

But look where we are today. Mein Duke Otto, I respect you in many ways, but it seems that this is one flaw of yours. You have sent the Bavarian Household Army far from Bavaria to conquer the islands of the Milanese, and now they have caught us with our trousers down. I shall try to make due with what is available, but generally the Household Armies were designed to deal with this sort of situation.

[OverKnight]

Gunther, glancing over at Conrad with a raised eyebrow, turns to speak to the Diet:

The timing of the Milanese offensive is unfortunate. I would remind the Diet that unless the Bavarian Household Army is currently engaged on Corsica, the first priority is the defense of Bavaria, as laid out in the orders given by Duke von Kassel.

I would also respectfully remind the Kaiser that no time table is laid out in edict 8.1, he has 18 years now to complete it. While I am glad that the Milanese flotilla was attacked, I am curious as to why we did not pursue them when he knew there was an invasion force on the fleet and make immediate landfall of the BHA near where they were anchored. Now that this option is gone, If the BHA can embark and land near the Milanese landing force to face them in battle, my Duke asks that it be done. The second part of the edict can be fulfilled once their army is dispersed.

Edict 8.1 was passed by this body, and the latest actions by the Milanese show why their constant threat to the Reich must be removed permanently. Any peace with them, particularly at such a high price, would most likely be broken eventually, and we would face the same situation in the future.

It is the Diet's responsibility to pass edicts that benefit the Reich, it is the Chancellor's responsibility to execute those edicts while maintaining the defense of the Reich.

Thank you.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Duke Otto's question on the matter of the crisis with Milan reveals that the Kaiser's report on the events of 2002 was regrettably incomplete.

The sequence of events was as follows. The Imperial navy of the western Mediterranean spotted a Milanese army embarked on a fleet anchored in the straits beween Corsica and Sardinia. The navy and Bavarian Household Army were based in the frontier settlement of Marseilles, quite far from the vulnerable Italian heartlands by land.

Given the Duke's refusal to continue negotiations with Milan, the decision was made to strike quickly and implement his edict to the letter by landing the BHA on Corsica. It was hoped this move would induce the Milanese to also disembark from their anchorage off southern Corsica and defend their homelands.

However, after landing the BHA, our navy found it would be able to catch the Milanese fleet unawares. The chance of sinking their army at sea was too tempting to resist. Unfortunately, the cowards fled after their defeat. What was not anticipated was that they would flee northwards, right next to Genoa.

The Duke asks why the Milanese fleet was not pursued and the BHA not landed near where the Milanese were anchored? I hope he can now understand that the BHA fleet was landed near where the Milanese were anchored - that is to say, in Corsica. The immediate threat to Italy only emerged later when the Milanese armada fled north after their defeat at sea. The Imperial fleet was not able to pursue because it is impossible to sail from Marseilles to Genoa, via the straits between Corsica and Sardinia, in the relevant time frame.

[Warluster]

Jobst laughs out aloud, then stands

Uh, the strife we get ourselves into!

Jobst chuckles some more

I think that clears the air of all worries, but anyway, what was done was done, we can't stop that noww, let us look back to the future!

Though I would be insanely intrested to know two things I don't know, are the Milanese still on the islands? And what of the Veneatians?

Prinz Jobst sits, and calls of one of his aides, and Jobst stands and leaves, while the aide sits and listens

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: I have a sad announcement to make. I regret to announce that at the close of 1202 AD, Maximillan Mandorf passed away peacefully in his sleep in Adana.

It is no exaggeration to say he was our own St Paul - a man who first rigorously condemned the church and then promoted it with the same rigour. Above all, he will be remembered for inspiring the crusade to Jerusalem, a crusade which repaired our relations with the Papacy and led to the foundation of the Kingdom of Outremer. Mandorf's presence on this earth as a guardian of the one true path will be sorely missed.

[AussieGiant]

It's a sad day gentlemen.

Maximillan Mandorf was one of our great leaders. A man of conviction and presence. There was never a better member of the Diet in all matters of State and Religion. He will be greatly missed by all.

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian von Tyrolia speaks:

Maximillian Mandorf was my namesake! It strikes me deeply that he should go, but I am glad he lived a long fulfilling life. It will be difficult for our young generals to take up his cross and continue his work.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst's aide stands, his head bowed,reading a urgent message from Prinz Jobst

Your life was long Maximillian, and in my opinion awarding and rewarding, you served your Duchy and The Reich truely well, you made the Holy Crusade possible and easier, and you gained lands near and far from The Reich.

Rest in Peace Maxmillian, I hope your rest is more peaceful then your life.

Prinz Jobst's aide sits

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian von Tyrolia:
I am most curious to hear about how the Kingdom of Outremer is doing - has Antioch, its planned capital, fallen to our forces yet?

[GeneralHankerchief]

*At the mention of the death of Maximillian Mandorf, Conrad Salier pales and excuses himself from the Diet.*

[OverKnight]

Gunther looks aghast at the news of Maximillian's death:

A terrible blow to Bavaria and the Reich. I have a letter from my master:


By now, the news has reached the Diet of the death of my friend and mentor Maximillian Mandorf. I will miss him. We have had our differences, but through it all I could count on his unrelenting commitment to the Reich and Bavaria. We knew that when he set his mind to something, nothing would prevent the completion of that task. He was not a man for half measures, and while this sometimes made him a royal pain in the arse, because of it, he accomplished great deeds. Nothing stood in his way, Turks, rebellious Dukes, obstinate Kaisers, he outlasted them all.

He was a fearsome General and a deft administrator, his Chancellorship provided a beacon of light in dark times while both the Crusade and the Household Armies were his creations. I owe what I am to him, and I hope he has found his Heavenly reward. Rest in peace, Maximillian.

Otto von Kassel

[Ituralde]

I am saddened to hear of the death of Maximilian Mandorf. He was one of the most avid critics of the Pope and later in life one of his most devout and pious followers. As Steward of Bavaria and later Count of Nuremburg he has been an integral part of the House of Bavaria and shall be missed by the other Houses as well as his own. Without him our Crusade would not have been led so vigoriously and so righteously. I find it only fitting that he was promoting Christendom to the heathens until his final breath. The House of Austria is in mourning over the passing of such a great man!

[FactionHeir]

*The servant rises to read a newly arrived letter form Hans*

My fellow lords,

It is with great sorrow that news of death of the esteemed Count Mandorf have been taken up both by myself and the men at my camp. He was a devout follower of Christendom and one of its most stout defenders. His passing will be mourned throughout the empire, and I am certain, also by the more chivalrous of our heathen and Christian foes. His creation of the council of crusaders and his work in the outremer however will outlive and continue to emanate the light he has brought with him to this world.

[Stuperman]

A Bavarian Messenger enters, bearing a message from Gerhard Steffen



Fellow Electors

It is with the deepest of sadness that I learn that Maximillian Mandorf has died, The whole of the BHA grieves for him. Though we rarely agreed on religion, his sence duty to the riech, and Command accumen were both admired by many, myself included. He would take Comfort knowing his eternal soul is assured redemption.

Gerhard Steffen

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst walks into the Diet, and sits,then stands

The Kaiser has marched onto Jerusalem! The Holy City which even the Papal Bull coudn't keep for himself! I pray The Kaiser and the brave Generals over there do their work...finely.

Jobst smiles, after hearing about the latest problems

Let us hope the Kingdom of Outremer can survive,within and without.

Jobst sits

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian's aide:

I have just received another letter from my master. It reads:

Lords,
The most recent news regarding our fine Kaiser and Chancellor troubles me deeply. I do not hold in the least with his consorting with that pagan magician, Dusan Kolar, and his practice in the arcane arts. My dear electors, if the Chancellor oversteps his power in any way, or performs any actions harming any Generals or our relations with the Pope, I urge you to move towards his impeachment. I am a mere merchant, but I know what is good and what is bad for the Reich.

Maximillian von Tyrolia, 5th Elector of Austria, from Gaza.

[TevashSzat]

Forgive me for my lateness in paying my respects to Maximillion, but things has been busy as I have been preparing for an invasion of France. He was a fine man who always kept the interests of the Empire and Church at heart and I have no doubt of his revered status in the future to come.

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian's aide speaks:

I know my master and before the Diet lashes out at him - this is not a call for impeachment. It is warning against the Kaiser's character, so similar to that of Heinrich before him, may he rest in peace.

Maximillian's aide retires from the Diet.

[AussieGiant]

I must say the Austrian Merchant class is becoming rather bold in their dealings with the Royal Family.

I have always preached engagement with the ruling class but, I never thought the young men would interpret things this way.

[OverKnight]

Guther reads a message from Otto:


Prinz Jobst and my fellow Electors, I wish to announce that I have chosen Gerhard Steffen, Count of Genoa, as my heir. He has served Bavaria and the Reich loyally, won great victories against the Venetians and Hungarians, seized Marseille without a battle in a coup de main and most recently forced the Milanese to beg for peace. He is a skillful General and a noble Ruler. The sacrifices he has made in Corsica only served to cement my decision.

If the Diet chooses to ratify my appointment in Outremer, he will serve as Steward of Bavaria, and one day he will follow me as Duke.

Congratulations Count Steffen, you have most certainly earned it.

Otto von Kassel

[Warluster]

I see nothing wrong with that, as Count Steffen as indeed given the Reich many things. I am sure others have no objections...?

[Stuperman]

Erik Von Stackelberg, Gerhard Steffen's most trusted body gaurd lumbers in to the Diet

"I come bearing a message from my lord, he regrets not being able to be here himself, but he is dealing with some rebels north of Rome" his voice booms

"Field Marshal Steffen humbly accepts the title of Steward of the House of Bavaria, and will use this appointment ensure that continued prosparity(sp) reigns throughout Bavaria and the Riech." the large man continued.

Erik turns to Guther

"My general regrets that he connot thank Duke Otto in person, but if you would be good enough to pass along his message of Gratitude, Appreciation, and Congradulations for his New title of King of Outremer."

With that Von Stackelberg takes his leave to rejoin the BHA.

[gibsonsg91921]

Maximillian's aide stands, with a letter in his hand:

Lords, I have a letter from my master from Northern Egypt, which I recently shared in Vienna, capital of Austria.

"Nobles, I am but a mere merchant of the upper middle class, but I have lots of big ideas for the Empire.

Our allies, the Portuguese, have been plagued by our old enemies, the Moors, for too long. I believe we should send an Grand Iberian Army of the Reich to aid them in their plight as a token of our good will and to spread Catholicism and Eastern influence. This will also be an excellent way to open up a second front against the French so we may all attack in concert with the Swabian armies.

Maximillian von Tyrolia, 5th Elector, from Egypt."

Aide sits down.

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Electors, grave news from Franconia! The great fortress of Thorn has been seized by the Russians in a bold coup de main! Duke Kastilien is marching the Franconian Household Army back north from Krakow province. The only small consolation is that the Russians have chosen to occupy, not sack or exterminate the fortress.

[FactionHeir]

Servant

How dare these ... these.. barbarians take what is ours! I am sure my master would strongly disapprove of their actions!

At least they let the populace live... we must pray they overthrow the invaders before we do.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands, looking unconcerned, but worried all the same

This is indeed...a problem, if you would call it that.

Of course, our defenses beyond Thorn are very...well, right? I hope. Of course, it is such a shame that all of Duke Von Kastillen(OOC:sp?) efforts have been wasted in the defense of Thorn.

It also produces a major problem, we have never verused the Russians in open battle before, we have hardly encountered them in fact. it was only the Count of Venice's expeditions into RUssia which gave us a proper undertsanding of their culture and armies.

Russia, I predict, shall be swept away very soon beneath those Mongolians, I heard news from a Chinese Merchant a whle ago, those Mongols stop at nothing with their hordes...

With our unstopable armies bearing upon them, and the Mongolians coming the oppostie way they shall be crushed soon, then its a race, shall we be swept before the Mongols next? Or our Crusader States?

Prinz Jobst sits

[Dutch_guy]

The Franconian Duke's servant stand, and addresses the Diet

It seems we have been a little too ambitious in the east, our borders are stretched out to the extreme and it was really only a matter of time before the Russians tried something like this. My master is currently on a forced march to Thorn, hopefully being able to get those Russians out of the area as fast as possible, before heading back to take Krakow from the Poles - who've taken a severe beating last time my master and his son faced them in battle. He also wishes to inform the Diet that his son Ansehelm has been Knighted, he is now authorized to lead a force of his own.

That is it for now, my master hopes to keep this body updated on our eastern situation...

The servant returns to his seat.




:balloon2:

[Northnovas]

A new face in the Diet stands Karl Zirn Third Elector of Austria son of the late Count of Zagreb.

Electors!, This is an embarrassment that a Fortress of the Reich has been captured! A frontier fortress protecting our border. It is one thing to convert a fortress to a city but to loose one in battle is shame.
What will next the cities of the interior??!!!!
Are we not trying to modernize our army what about our tactics? Are we following the tactics of dead nobles.
Who is responsible for the defence of Thorn?
The FHA is on it's way to recapture the Thorn but I hear they are in a sad state in short of supply because of fights with the Poles.
What lands fall next Dijon, Ragusa or Rome itself???
I am all for the work in the Outremer but it's success will not matter if there is nothing to come back too!!
There must be a strategic plan for the Reich that does not focus the East with the new Kingdom. We must work with what allies we have and protect our lands proper.

The member returns to his seat upset with the news of Thorn.

OOC: This is all IC from the other OOC thread concern. Just got up and read econ's report and thought I would generate some discussion. Too early to be really vocal at this point.

[FactionHeir]

Servant

My master agrees that we need to look to our defences now that our borders are stretched thin. We may even need to increase our border guards and further their training so they may stand a chance when no senior commander is present to command the force.
However, this requires us to improve our economy even further so we can sustain the hiring of larger forces at strategic locations.
To however not waste good florins on paying troops that hardly will ever meet an invading force, my master would propose that for the meantime, forts and watchtowers are to be erected along our borders so we have may stall the enemy while we prepare for an onslaught. This would of course not only allow for additional troop training but also for our senior commanders to make haste for the affected county.

This will be an edict that my master will propose once the diet session opens.

[Stig]

The servant of the count of Thorn stands and speaks

I can inform you gentlemen that my master will do everything to take Thorn back. Even if it means leading the attack onto the walls.
My master also thinks that we should put more into the HRE and less into the Outremer. Afterall, the Heimat is most important. He proposes that in future we will put more effort into kicking the enemy from our gates. A Teutonic Crusade might do well.

[OverKnight]

Otto von Kassel enters the Diet. He looks around the chamber as if to get his bearings after an absence of so many years. Crossing the Bavarian section on his way to speak with Gunther, he passes a hand over Maximillian's old seat. His expression grows grim for a moment, but Otto brightens up when he greets his old proxy. They exchange a few words and Gunther makes his way to the back benches. Turning to the main floor, Otto addresses the Diet:

My lords, it is good to be back in Europe and my homeland. Since the Egyptians have been quiet around Acre and Jerusalem and our sea lanes to and from Outremer secure, I decided to return to Rome on one of our fastest merchant ships. I want to be here for the upcoming session, and it has been a long time since I have seen the Alps or Innsbruck.

The set back at Thorn is unfortunate, the swiftness and ferocity of the Russian attack took both the Chancellor and the Franconians by surprise. Still, it is just that, a temporary set back. While Krakow was not captured, Duke von Kastilien has bled the Poles, and it will take them years to recover. While his own forces are depleted, he gave much better than he got, and he has enough men to put paid to the Russians. Thorn and Corsica have shown, however, that there needs to be better coordination between the Household Armies and the Chancellor. I hope we will take this lesson to heart.

In regards to Sir Zirn's comments concerning Outremer, I find his assertions unfounded and not constructive. Thorn is thousands of miles from the Levant, even if we were not engaged in the east, we would most likely have the same result. We are doing God's work in Outremer, and this has not detracted from our efforts at home, in fact it has aided them. By gifting Jerusalem to the Papacy and our our missionary work there, we have gained much influence in the College of Cardinals. Even now we have an Imperial Pope and several successors in line. If anyone doubts the efficacy of this on the home front, the excommunication of the French should assuage those concerns.

I agree with Count Hans that we need to keep a better eye on our borders, and watchtowers are a good way to do this. I myself have built a system of them bordering Acre, and they have served me well in keeping an eye on Saracen incursions to the south and east. We would be wise to finish such a system for all of the Reich's borders.

Perhaps we should use the Baltic fleet and a small landing force to seize one of the Russian's less defended coastal cities. Once we have Thorn back, we could offer this city's return for peace and possibly tribute. I have no desire for the Reich to make any permanent inroads into the vast lands to the east.

In regards to these Mongols, they do concern me. What they lack in initiative so far, they make up for in numbers. We will deal with them if need be. A possible idea is that once we can convince the Pope to call a Crusade again, we should target any city they might have seized. The horse lords threaten all of Europe, it is only right that all of Christendom should respond to this threat. We would only have to join the Crusade in the later stages, giving time for the other Catholic armies to assemble and travel to the east. Still, this is a ways off. It is merely a suggestion.

Edit: The idea of a Crusade to convert the schismatic Russians and Baltic pagans is also intriguing, but I still would not want to keep any territories in that vast emptiness they call a Duchy.

It is good to be back, if only for a little while.

Otto makes his way to his old place in the Bavarian delegation and sits.

[Northnovas]

The Elector stands to address von Kassel's remarks...

Lord Kassel I do not feel that my statements are unfounded. The past 20 years the Reich as concentrated in the East. The work is God's doing and you are quite correct; we have benefit from it's outcome especially with the Papacy.
However, in completing this work we have committed our best generals and troops to the cause with the exception of Duke Leopold who remained to defend the homeland. I wish to go to the East myself and continue the Lord's work.
We have had several threats over the years at home and if it were not the leadership of the Lords here we could have lost more cities.
All I am saying is there has to be strategic plan that serves the Homeland and the Outremer. We cannot be focused on one goal.
The natural reaction in this crisis would be to build up the homeland and then the Outremer is neglected and suffers from lack of support and attention.
Whoever is considering the Office of Chancellor should keep this in mind.
One plan for two lands.

[AussieGiant]

One plan for two lands.

That rhymes My Lord. Maybe that should be a slogan for the next Chancellor election.

Raising his eyebrows in amusement the Count of Venice takes a seat

[econ21]

Diet Speaker: Disaster! Word has reached me - Prinz Jobst is in battle with the Danish crusade! We shall be at war with Denmark! And indeed with all of Christendom - we will be excommunicated again!!!

[OverKnight]

Otto leaps from his chair:

What!? This can't be! Von der Pfalz would not do this. . .Why were we even laying an ambush in front of a crusading army?! This is madness!

Otto reels from the news.

This is a disaster! All the effort I. . .we put into reconciliation and it is thrown away because someone drew a sword at the wrong time. We must find out the responsible parties and put them on trial for treason!

At least we're not at war with the Papacy. We can send a diplomat and see what the price will be for reconciliation. We must reconcile before any further damage is done to our alliances, even though we have lost ours with the Church, and before the Reich tears itself apart. The cultivation of good relations with the Papacy lies in ruins. We can recover but. . .the price will be high.

As for the Danes, I suppose there's nothing for it but to crush them and see if they will parley afterwards.

I do not envy the next Chancellor, he will inherit a horrific situation.

Madness. . .

Otto collapses into his seat. It looks like he has aged 10 years in the past few minutes.

[FactionHeir]

*Hans has only just entered the diet after a long journey from Constantinople*

What madness is this I ask? How can the prince lay ambush on a crusading army and decide to assault them for no reason? Has he gone mad as my grandfather has? He may be a fellow Swabian, but I cannot condone such action that induces the wrath of all of Christendom upon our empire. I demand that a messenger be sent to him that he may cease this folly and retreat from this attack, lest he wish to face the wrath of the diet, which must authorize any action leading to excommunication!

[AussieGiant]

Standing slowly the Count of Venice looks visibly shaken

What folly is this my lords!!

The world as we know it has just turned against us. We have been accused on all sides and by all nations of ambushing a Crusade to the Holy Land!!

I am at a loss to explain anything...

Standing slowly the Count of Venice walks slowly from the Diet in a daze

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

These actions must NOT be allowed to go through without consequence. I propose that if the foolish Prinz survives his battle we swiftly and immediately discipline him. For, as good Hans has pointed out, he has most blatantly violated the charter.

[Warluster]

A messenger arrives at the Diet

A message recently came through from Prinz Jobst




Dear fellowe electors,

As you probably know, I am in North Germany as of now, readying to ambush a Danish Crusader Army.

I have been told many of you suggest I retreat. Bah! Retreat!? Thats an insult! I shall slaughter every last one of them! May I remind you electors, this had to happen eventually! I shall not retreat.

I hope you know, this shall do a lot of darn good.

Long live the Kaiser.

Prinz Jobst,

The messenger hurrys out of the Diet, heading to Dijon

[Northnovas]

The THird Elector rises..

This message is absolute madness!! I concur with Sir Salier the Prince must be brought before the Electors and explain his actions. Then we will serve the appropriate discipline.

[OverKnight]

Otto speaks from his chair, as he seems to lack the will to stand:

From the scraps of information I have, it seems the battle was not planned, nor did Prinz Jobst initiate the assault. It seems to have been a colossal misunderstanding.

Yes, the Prinz did have the option of withdrawing, and his attitude in his letter alarming, but the grounds for war were already there. Withdrawal would change nothing, but it would leave a large hostile army on our lands. If our hand is forced, we might as well strike as hard as we can. There are no good outcomes to this, but we must deal with the situation as it is now. We can not turn back time.

When I called for an investigation, I was not singling out the Prinz, there is an unseen hand directing these events. We must find out who is responsible for this treachery and eliminate them. It will not change what has happened, but we must have retribution for what has occurred.

God save the Reich, God save all of us.

[Stuperman]

The whole room chills and the torches flicker hard against an unseen force, as Gerhard enters, Horrifying the Diet at his appearance, He coughs deeply and something emerges from his throat and is deposited on the diet floor.

"I hope he kills every last one of them.....

The Lands of the Danes are rich, and once conquered would allow us to eliminate a front, allowing us to better defends out boarders.

Although I know little of the circumstances of the battle, I can see many advantages to this war"

And as for the pope that blithering idiot can go rot in the 'hell' he's always going on about."

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

What?!

Gerhard, I expected better of you. Have we not for many years shared a peaceful border with the Danes? Lest you forget, the world views us as the initiator of hostile actions. We have never had any qualms with these people.

[AussieGiant]

Still visibly shaken the Count of Venice looks as Gerhard

WHAT are you talking about Gerhard!!

Have you gone mad or are you possessed by some crazed lunatic!!??

I thought I knew you my lord but clearly I was mistaken.

Do you actually want this all to happen?

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst walks into the Diet, his armor cracked and twigs is his hair. He sits, where his aide fills him in on everything, then stands

Fellow electors,

I have returned from North Germany,past Frankfurt. The battle was one of the easiest of my career, and I am honored to say, I duelled and killed the Danish prince myself.
The Prinz winces but continues

Some say you wish to put me on trial like a witch, I ask why? It is not my fault the Danes came barging into our territory, I wasn't waiting for them! I was defending your homes, I was defending the Reich when they rudely walk through with no permission! Absurd.

But I had mercy, and we ransomed them for 2000 florins, I hope it upgrades your castles gentlemen.

Prinz Jobst sits

[AussieGiant]

Looking aghast at the Prinz

My lord,

Don't ALL crusading armies HOLD papers from the Pope that request free and unhindered passage through Christian lands!!!???

They were on Crusade weren't they Prinz Jobst?? Did you ask?

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst nervoulsy stands and looks at the Count of Venice

Well... the leader of that army was a secret rebel anyway, its no real loss is it? And the Pope shall forgive us when he knows.

Jobst whispers silently

Or I'll kill him myself

Jobst straighens up and continues speaking

I was merely defending myself.

Jobst sits

[AussieGiant]

Both eyebrows shoot up into the air on the Count of Venice's face

A secret rebel...that's it?!

That's all you have...

...a prince of Denmark, calls a crusade as an elaborate cover plan because he's secret rebel...you then happen to know this and decide to kill him??!! He's a secret rebel for who? What's he rebelling against?!

I presume you like the King of Denmark so much that you decided to step in and help...is that it?

Do you know how many men are lined up outside my office right now!!?? Half the known bloody world is clamoring for an answer as to what has happened.

I have nearly half the worlds gold flowing through this nation and you have secret rebel ideas flying around that no one can substantiate and throw it all into a complete heap of steaming "merde"!!

You do speak French don't you Prinz Jobst, you know what "merde" is!!??

Merde is...

The Count of Venice is at this stage physically restrained by members of his own staff. With a face turning increasingly crimson he is shepherded out of the Diet chamber with great haste.

the chamber is filled with curses

....idiots...what the hell...he's a....lunatics that's what he is...

....don't care...he is....a bloody fool...

...don't touch me...don't....your fired you piece of...

...YOU, I'll kill you with my bare hands...disagree with me again and I'll turn your liver into cheese you bastard...

[Warluster]

OOC:Lol

IC:

Prinz Jobst satnds, watching as the Count of Venice is restrained by his aides, then snarls

No, I don't know French, Count of Venice. The only bloody thing I've had to do with the French is kill them!

Now enough of this nonsense, this is the Imperial Diet, not a tavern.

Though I woudn't mind a beer...

Anyway, I see you haven't heard of the Danish princes plot? Thats why I killed him, a man is ruler by right, not by battle.

Prinz Jobst sits

[AussieGiant]

Just as the doors close on the Count of Venice leaving he turns at hearing Prinz Jobst comment...he immediately tries to re-enter the Chamber while being restrained by his own Russian body guards

That...IS CORRECT Jobst...it is a Diet Chamber not a tavern you

BOOM...the doors are closed rather quickly by the pagemen. Both young men can be seen receiving money by the Count of Venice's attache before he leaves

[Ituralde]

Duke Leopold has entered the Diet shortly before the outburst of the Count of Venice and stands to adress the Diet:

I came here directly upon hearing this news. I bypassed Ragusa on my way. where I had planned to prepare the Crusade. It seems I can scrap that now!

He turns to Prinz Jobst:

So you are the man that single-handedly nullified the efforts of the last two Chancellors, your Kaiser included? And all you have to say in your defense is some rambling about a rebel? While I don't agree with the verbal outbursts of the Count of Venice I agree with his sentiments concerning your explanation.

We are at the brink of war with every Christian nation, while a savage horde assembles at our Eastern border, threatening to overrun our possessions in the Levant. This is your doing Prince Jobst and I vow I'll make every single day before your ascension to Emperor a living hell if you don't come up with a better explanation for this situation.

Just yesterday we were in the Popes highest favour and now we are excommunicated and you are at the heart of it. You were there man, so speak! What kind of rebel was this that prompted you to attack a Crusade? A Crusade sanctioned by the Pope, whose participants have recieved absolution and thus can not be held responsible for their past sins while undertaking this journey.
What plot is this you are talking about?

I demand explanations and they'll better be good!

[OverKnight]

Otto stands and speaks:

Duke Leopold, and my fellow electors.

Please, before we go too far in any accusations, let us wait for the Chancellor's report on this matter. The Danish incident is one of the last events of the Kaiser's term, and I would hear from him before we proceed further.

Otto rubs the scar on his face in agitation.

There is much here we don't know, I hope his Majesty can enlighten us.

[AussieGiant]

The Diet Chamber doors open, although nothing can actually be heard, a tall powerfully built young man can be seen outside speaking forcefully with the Count of Venice, upon receiving a response he towers over the count and points his gauntlet finger at the Count of Venice's nose and make one final barking comment.

He then wheels away and strides into the Diet and takes a seat next to Duke Leopold and hands him a note.

[econ21]

Imperial Speaker: It is with a mixture of sadness and relief that I inform my Lords that the crisis over the Danish crusade has been contained due to the passing of the Pope. Cardinal Sigismund Uttenheim has been elected as his successor and has ended our excommunication. Our relations with the Papacy are once again very good. Duke Leopold will be able to join the crusade on Damascus. However, our relations with our Catholic allies have worsened considerably (before the debacle, they had risen to reasonable and amiable during Henry's term of office).

Now that Kaiser Henry's term of office has ended, it is time to open the Ninth full Diet session. There will be a three day period for the proposal of edicts and Charter Ammendments. Candidates for the post of Chancellor are asked to submit their manifestoes. On Wednesday, 10.45am (UK time) the deadline will expire.

As the Kaiser is still en route home from Edessa to participate in this Diet, and given the charges made against his normal deputy, the Prinz, he requests that King Otto would chair the Diet in his absence. He also gives notice that Duke Otto will be re-affirmed as King of Outremer, if the proposed constitution for Outremer passes. (The Kaiser hopes to formally propose that constitution in the next day or so.)

I yield the floor to King Otto.

[Ituralde]

Duke Leopold reads the note handed to him by his son, the shakes his head in disbelief, reads the message once again and then slowly rises to stand again. Apparently looking for words he casts a glance around the Diet, giving a small nod to Duke von Kassel as he sees him.

Well, gentlemen, Prince Jobst!

It seems that by a stroke of luck we... we are no longer excommunicated! I'm sure we shall recieve a Chancellors report on the recent events shortly that will hopefully shed some light on them.

He turns to Prince Jobst.

While this migitates the effects of your actions, Prince, I'm still looking forward to your explanation. This wasn't part of an elaborate ploy to upset the Count of Venice now was it?


OOC: Obviously this should be read, before econ21s post.

[OverKnight]

Otto looks up and is very surprised at being yielded the floor, or perhaps its shock at the sudden reconciliation. He mutters something under his breath, "Should have stayed in Acre." He stands again and speaks:

Ah. . .well. . .the Session is open as the Diet Speaker mentioned. Have at it. . .I would remind everyone that I will enforce decorum in this body if needed. All the facts concerning our battle with the Danes, despite the Prinz's theories, are not in. We are here to propose and vote on edicts, let's focus on the task at hand.

Edit: I would ask that any candidates for the position of Chancellor come forward and present their manifestoes. The next term should be interesting, to say the least.

Otto sits and looks warily around the Diet.

[econ21]

[An emissary of Kaiser Henry]:

My Lords, the Kaiser wishes to formally propose as a Charter Amendment, the constitution for Outremer that he drafted at the last Diet. The only change is to include Edessa among Outremer's provinces. Neither Edessa nor Damascus currently are in our hands, however.

Charter Amendment 9.1:

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward).

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.2, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain an additional +1 influence (over and above any influence for being a Count of a European settlement) but only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 5 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

[AussieGiant]

Duke Leopold's son Arnold stands

I second CA 9.1

[gibsonsg91921]

A messenger and close friend of Maximillian von Tyrolia stands.

"My master seconds CA 9.1.

He also believes strongly in the economic and military value of driving the Moors out of Iberia to save the Portuguese, as well as to show our good faith. The Portuguese have nearly the strongest navy in the world, and we must grant them Granada or Valencia so they have access to the Mediterranean and can help us achieve our goals and purify the waters of infidels. Such a venture would also increase our interest in the West and open up a second front on the powerful French to help ease the Swabian borders. Thus, I propose Edict 9.1:
The Reich shall create a Grand Army of Iberia under the same minimum troop levels and limitations as Household Armies. The army shall sail to Iberia and make landfall on Moorish or Spanish land, where they can conquer all non-Portuguese cities. As a token of our good will and for economic safety, at least one city or castle bordering the Mediterranean shall be granted back to Portugal. These lands shall not be granted to any house until Iberia is cleansed of Moors or Spaniards, and thus will remain under direct Imperial control.

My master also thought of possibly establishing a Kingdom of Iberia out west, but I feel that the Chancellor or some other more powerful lord will have better plans than that, so I did not include it in the Edict."

Messenger sits down.

[FactionHeir]

*After speaking a few words with his servant, who subsequently leaves the chamber, Hans rises to address the diet*

Friends, Germans, I wish to formally announce my intention to stand for the office of chancellor. *He pauses and looks at the congregation before continuing*
You may certainly ask yourself why you would want to vote for me and what I could possibly have to offer. Well, then your questions shall be answered.

As you are all aware, the recent events, such as the loss of Thorn and the impending invasion of the Mongol hordes, have made us, the Holy Roman Empire, look weak in the eyes of the known world. Our recent, yet shortlived, excommunication, has left us with abysmal relations to not only to our allies, but also the rest of Christendom.

Some of you may ask why we should worry about looking weak, if we can conquer them all and force our rule upon everyone. I say that while this may be possible, history has taught us that no one nation can rule over all others without eventually falling. We may be the strongest of all Roman Empires so far, but we certainly are not gods and the people we rule over certainly not saints. As such, we can only hope to stand out as the strongest nation of all, whose words carry weight, and have the rulers of the other nations worry about keeping their subjects in line, while we can devote our resources to strengthening our borders, crush those who openly oppose us and bring the light of Christ to the many heathens that this world still harbors.

To further these goals my lords, let me outline to you the goals that I have set myself and will fulfill, if you find me worthy.

Firstly, it is imperative that we show our strength and not back off from any invader. This means that Thorn must be retaken at all costs and Russia be punished for their boldness.

Secondly, to prevent any further invasions into our lands, watchtowers shall be erected so we may have a complete surveillance over every single parcel of land that is ruled by us. Further, forts shall be erected to deter and stall any invading force so we can prepare our defences and strike forces in advance.

Thirdly, contact shall be made with the horsemen on the eastern front of outremer to determine what they have planned. At the same time, garrisons in the outremer will be reinforced to dter both the heathens and the Mongols. If they dare attack us, we will send them back to whence they came.

Fourthly, I will send emissaries to all Christian nations to improve our relations with them and seal alliances. As the guardian and leader of Christendom, it is upon us to be the strong consolidating force in forging an alliances in the name of Christ.

Fifthly, I will endeavor to have the crusading army reinforced and dispatched to outremer to take Damascus before any other nation can. If required, I will make certain more ships are built to ferry our fearless warriors.

Sixth, I will endevaor to rid our lands of rebels, heretics, witches and any intruding inquisitor as well as bolster the garrisons of all border regions.

Lastly, you will have noticed that contrary to my father's plans, our Byzantine allies have retaken Constantinople due to a plan that I have forged with them during my visit to Smyrna. I have arranged for messengers to spread word of my coming and diverted their attention southwards which allowed our allies to strike from the mountains to the east. As a show of good faith, I will engage the large Hungarian force that I have lured to the coast of Constantinople and send them back to their godless steppes and thus improve our relations with our eastern brothers.

I hope that you will honor these plans by casting your vote for me, and I certainly am open to further discussion of these goals and any edicts that you may wish to have fulfilled.

*Hans bows to each of the Houses and returns to the Swabian benches*

[gibsonsg91921]

Tyrolia's aide stands, addressing Hans:

"My lord, let me start by saying the Reich would be honored to have you reign as Chancellor.

You mentioned in your manifesto that you would like to improve our relations with our allies as well as show our power to our enemies. Let me inquire, where do you stand on Edict 9.1? For if passed, this Edict would appease Portugal as well as show that we are not an Empire to toy with."

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

First of all, Tyrolia, I believe that the proper numbering of your proposed edict is 9.1, not 9.2. Charter Amendments and Edicts can have the same numbers.

Count Hans, your plans sound rather admirable and unless you make a serious gaffe, I believe that you can count me among your supporters.

Finally, I believe that in light of certain events, the following edict is unfortunately necessary:

Edict 9.2: Prinz Jobst is hereby barred from having any military command for the entirety of the upcoming Chancellor's term.

[gibsonsg91921]

I am terribly sorry my lord, I shall make amends for my failure in counting. I am not a counter like my master is.

In regards to Edict 9.2, I believe such sanctions against Prinz Jobst are unnecessary. Jobst's actions may have been more far-sighted than we can tell. If the Danes and their Crusaders came near to Damascus they would have a large army in Outremer once the Crusade ended with nothing to do but strike at our cities.

[Stig]

The "Count" of Thorns messenger walks in

My master wishes to second Edict 9.2

[econ21]

Emissary of Kaiser Henry: Duke Leopold has petitioned that the von Mahren family be allowed to join the House of Austria. Although this is essentially a private matter, it would violate article 1.1 of our Charter. Therefore the Kaiser proposes an amendment:

Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:

In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

[TinCow]

Esteemed Electors, it is with great consternation that I note the horrendous deterioration in our foreign relations that has resulted from Prinz Jobst's actions. Our previous two Chancellors have done much to repair our relations with our Christian neighbors and all of that has been shattered in a single day. I fully support Edict 9.2 and hereby second it. In a situation as serious as this, failure to punish to perpetrator of the crime is no different than condoning the crime itself. If we do not inflict a serious reprimand on Prinz Jobst, all of Christendom will believe that we agree with his actions.

Yet I do not believe that even this is enough. While such an act may keep our reputation from slipping further, it will not redeem ourselves in the eyes of our allies. Our relationships can be repaired over time with monetary assistance, but our reputation as a treacherous and dishonorable nation will always continue unless we prove ourselves to our Allies on the field of battle.

We are currently allied with England, Sicily, Byzantium, and Portugal. All of these nations have enemies and we must show our worth by lending actual military support to our allies. There are numerous places where we could do just that. I have heard rumors that the English fortress at Oslo is under siege by the Danes. The English are also engaged in a war of conquest against Scotland and there are further rumors that a large English army is trapped outside Antwerp by both the Danes and the Scots. We all know that the Hungarians lurk outside Constantinople and threaten to retake the capital of our Byzantine allies. Our Portuguese allies have lost territory in their war against France, with whom they share borders. Furthermore, Spain is rumored to be invading the Portuguese homeland and is threatening to besiege Lisbon itself.

In short, Electors, our allies are involved in great struggles and have need of our military aid. Let us give them that aid and show the entire world that the men of the Holy Roman Empire are true to their word and are allies in deed as well as name. Therefore I propose the following Edict:

Edict 9.3: The Chancellor must dispatch armies and/or fleets to aid our Allies in battle. By the end of his term, the Chancellor must have somehow managed to lend military assistance to an ally that is attacking or being attacked by a foe. (At least one army or fleet of the HRE must act as reinforcements to an ally where the battle was not initiated by the HRE.)

[gibsonsg91921]

I second Edict 9.3 as it is a better wording of 9.1

[Northnovas]

The Austrian Elector takes the floor to address the members ....

Electors, I wish to follow up on the current CA and Edict being presented to the floor. There has been great consternation of the loss Thorn and the treachery of the Russians. We are also aware of pitiful relations with our Catholic brothers and even though we share the same faith they would not hesitate to strike at us if they saw a weak point in our defence.

What I would like to propose is a homeland defence to support the Household Armies assigned to the Reich's defence. My CA would be the creation of a new army controlled by the Chancellor's Office to aid in the defence of the Reich. The legislation follows the fine draft designed for the Household Army under CA 5.1.
I therefore submit CA 5.2

Army of the Chancellor's Office

The member in who is elected Chancellor will have a special Army assigned to his office and will only be in charge of that Army till his term in office ends and a new Chancellor is elected.

1) The Chancellor’s Army may not be removed from the HRE proper without the permission of the Emperor.
2) The Chancellor will determine where the Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time in accordance with the needs of defense of the Empire.
3) The Chancellor will command the Army but at this discretion may assign a noble to lead that army. An example being if the Chancellor is not physical in HRE Europe he may have a noble in charge but movements would be that of the Chancellor.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Chancellor may assign general orders to the Army. The Chancellor may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House to defend. If Order (4) is chosen, the Chancellor may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment. When the time limit expires, the Chancellor Army must be immediately returned to homeland defence duties, no matter what other circumstances occur.
5) The Chancellor Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiment. The Chancellor Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Chancellor Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Chancellor Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Army’s full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Chancellor Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Emperor.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Chancellor Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Emperor and receive their permission to reduce the Chancellor Army in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

As you see by this CA and please scribe correct me on the numbering I only wish to reinforce the House Armies defences and to assist in policing the interior. I am most willing to hear your opinions and admendments to this motion.

[OverKnight]

Gunther has been kind enough to keep a list of the proposed legislation:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1557106&postcount=7

[OverKnight]

After reviewing the list of the proposed legislation, Otto speaks again:

I will second Charter Amendment 9.2. All parties involved have agreed to this, and I do not see any difficulties.

I will second Edict 9.3. This furthers the Kaiser's concept of a new Pax Romana. It will also serve to preserve our remaining alliances.

I admire Karl Zirn's intent in CA 9.3 for addressing the defense of the Reich. An army is needed to move from Duchy to Duchy depending on strategic concerns. The Army of the Interior already exists however, and the Chancellor already has the right to appoint a leader, recruit forces and give it movement orders. The Household Army legislation was meant to give a voice to the Duchies in planning their defense and provide armies to do so. Enacting the legislation again for a Chancellor is redundant and possibly restrictive. With all due respect, I will not support this amendment.

I oppose Edict 9.2. To impose punishment without trial or before the facts are known is unwise. I have found some of Prinz Jobst's comments concerning the Danish incident alarming, but I have yet any proof before me that he has acted illegally. As far as I know, the two forces stumbled into each other and battle was met. Such are the perils of foreign armies marching through our territories without permission, even if they are on Crusade. Until we know more, I will not support any sanctions against the Prinz.

Edit: To get to the heart of the matter, I propose we send an agent to investigate:

Edict 9.4: A spy will be dispatched to Denmark to investigate the causes of the Danish incident. The battlefield will also be examined for possible clues and the Prinz and his commanders will be questioned as to the events of that day.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

I shall second CHarter Ammendmant 9.2

Why is everyone so hostile towards the actions of the battle? We have repaired the problems with the Pope. And sure we damaged relations with other nations, but we are basiclly at war with every nation near us anyway!

And I repeat for the last and final time, it was self dfesne! They attacked us first! They swarmed over our otuer defenses, and tried to sneak up and kill us! It was all self defense!

And edict 9.2 is absurd! Completley absurd! I only defended myself! How am I supposed to know a Danish Army is coming through oru territory! Sir Salier, if at 5 o'clock in the morning, a siege tower approached the walls of Rome with a full army behind intent on killing you, you wouldn't fight back!? Would you let them pour over you and kill you!? No! I think not, worse things have happened, and the punishment has not been so severe! If you want, I shall open the gates of Frankfurt next time they come, is that what you are suggesting?



Prinz Jobst sits,shaking his head

[Dutch_guy]

Last session of this Diet the Franconian House wished to put forward a charter amendment. At the last moment, we decided to postpone it for the next session for reasons our own. Now, however, would be the ideal time to propose it. Especially with the now northern frontier breaking open; both the Russians and the Danes have shown their true face, and not to our liking.

Charter Amendment 9.4:

Charter Amendment: Each Duke may designate a Second Household Army during a Diet session. The military formation that can be designated as a Second Household Army is subject to the following conditions:

1. The formation must be within the territory of the Duchy.
2. The formation must be commanded by an Army Commander belonging to the Duchy.
3. The formation must be at least 6 regiments in strength at the time of designation.

The Franconian House finds that additional protection is needed to hold or retake our current possessions. We believe that a second army would have prevented the loss of Thorn, and would have also given a strong signal to the Danes. Not taking into account our esteemed Prince's ambush of course...
Do note that this Amendment counts for all the Houses, not merely the Franconian one.

EDIT: I shall voice my opinions on the other already proposed motions and amendments when I have given them some more thought.

Duke von Kastillien.

:balloon2:

[Northnovas]

I see the issue of the Reich's defence is a concern amongst our Electors. There are now 2 proposals put forward to raise armies in the Reich's defence. The concern would be cost and upkeep but the "restriction" is whatever Army is created is for defence; not to be send to fight in foreign lands.
We Electros must come up with a viable solution to resolve the issue of the Reich's defences and keeping the interior secured.

[Stig]

Ansehelm von Kastilien, former count of Thorn stands

I wish to propose Edict 9.5:
More effort shall be put into the defense of the Reich's home borders. At the moment we have the Hungarians, the Poles and the Rus at our Eastern Borders and due to the mistake by the Prinz we got into trouble with the Danes in the North and West. Next to that we also have our French enemies in the West. In order to secure home security the following will be done:
1. More effort shall be put into fighting the Eastern Barbarians. This is done by allowing the Franconian and Austrian Household Armies to open the attack to the East.
2. If Edict 9.2 doesn't get through the Prinz will move his army to the East to fight the Rus. The addition of his army on our Eastern Front will easely tip the balance in our favour.
3. We shall start a Teutonic Crusade against the Barbarians and drive them back to their steps. The Steppes are open and big. Once there our Eastern Border will be more then well secured and we won't have to worry about the Barbarians anymore.
4. The Teutonic Crusade does not have to be an official Crusade sponsored by the Pope, we are more then capable to do it on our own.The Prinz's army could act as the Crusade army. He ofcourse will get additional units of Teutonic Knights.

Once our Eastern Borders are secured by taking the settlements of Krakow, Halych, Thorn, Vilnius and Riga we can put most effort in the West. The armies proposed in CA 9.4 will be more then enough to protect those borders.

[AussieGiant]

After reading intently for some time Arnold stands to speak

I will second CA 9.4, and edict 9.4.

I would just like to add that, it is quite clear how agitated my adviser the Count of Venice is regarding the incident with Prinz Jobst. While I agree with him on a number of issues, and I surely understand the strain it has caused our economy, we can't sanction Prinz Jobst until we find out what happened.

It might be wise to take a middle path on the matter until it is resolved.

While we determine what happened Prinz Jobst is not to lead any of the Reich's armies until which time an investigation has determined what happened. This could be a more appropriate edict gentlemen.

It does disturb me that Prinz Jobst seem to have a fairly reckless attitude towards the incident and that is more concerning to me than anything.

[Ituralde]

I second Charter Amendment 9.2 and will bestow the title of Count of Prague upon Ehrhart von Mahren should this Amendment come to pass. Austria is in need of young nobles and this should statisfy everybody's needs.

With our recent reconciliation I believe the Crusade towards Damascus can go ahead as planned. I will support my nephew Hans in his bid for Chancellorsip if he can ensure that the Crusade reaches Damascus swiftly.
To make this goal absolutely mandatory I propose the following legislation:

Edict 9.6
From the men assembled in Ragusa a Crusade for Damascus will be created as soon as possible. Any general wishing to join the Crusade shall be able to particpate. The Crusade will take the fastest possible route towards Outremere.

This should ensure that the Crusade won't be further delayed by any unfortunate encounters.

He looks at Prince Jobst.

Finally you shed some light on the events. If it is like you said, that you were indeed attacked by the Danish Crusade, this would be ample justification for our actions. Although as King von Kassel I find it intruiging to know why exactly a Crusade decided to attack us, the protectors of Christendom? I therefor second Edict 9.4.

I see there are many Edicts forthcoming considering the defense of our Reich. Indeed I must say that I was surprised to hear of the Emperors reform activities. While I agree that our armies must contain the best level of troops available to disband obsolete troops when there are no replacements available severly threatens our security. I agree with the intent of the Charter Amendments adressing this situation, but like King Otto von Kassel I believe that no further legislation should be possible to provide an adequate defense. During my term of Chancellorship I had to defend multiple invasions, and responded by having two standing armies for each House.
All future Chancellors should remind themselves that the Household Armies are a minimum that has to be there. If the situation calls for more defenses then by all means they should go ahead and do this.

Who leads this army and how large it is, should remain the responsibility of the Chancellor and I'm sure a capable Chancellor can prevent future losses in our defensive efforts.

Before I close let me make some final announcements:
My son Arnold shall become Count of Budapest and as soon as I join the Crusade he will become the Steward of Austria to make him accquainted with the matters of state before he follows me as Duke of Austria.
My son Karl Zirn will follow his father as Count of Zagreb, as I believe his health does not allow him to fill out this office.

Edit: Renamed Edicts, I type too slowly it seems.

[Stig]

Ansehelm stands again

I forgot to say, I also second CA 9.4.

[FactionHeir]

*Hans reads through the list of proposed legislations and their supporters, studying the words intently before he rises to speak*

My lords, it seems there have been a great many legislations proposed, and if they come to pass, I will, given that I be elected, of course give them my utmost attention to fulfill the will of the diet.

I will however say that I will not second CA 9.3 and CA 9.4 at this time as firstly, the chancellor has control over the formation of any force already and the Imperial army recently formed by our esteemed emperor Henry is available for internal security. Similarly, there is a minimum strength limit on Ducal armies that can be expanded to up to 20 regiments if it is necessary. I certainly would do so if it becomes necessary or a hostile army moves close to our borders.

Edict 9.5 I would deem fairly expansionist and I do not know whether we have the funds necessary to upkeep several vast armies that this and our endeavors to aid our allies, create mroe armies, a current crusade to Damascus and bolster outremer against the possible mongol threat will cost us. I would suggest that you split this edict into several parts or lower the expectations on the number of targets, as the steppes are vast and taking 4 settlements within one term may not be doable. I shall say however that I would support retaliation against the Russians if we do not stretch our borders too far to the east that they become indefensible.

Now, as to legislation still lacking seconders, it seems that leaves only Edict 9.6, and I shall wholeheatedly support it as it is congruous to my own set goals.

[Stig]

Meine Herren, we should remember to also protect the Reich's own borders, still we want to go campaigning in the Orient, but are we forgetting that we are at war with Denmark, France, Russia, Poland and Hungary. We should focus on attacking them as well, what use do a couple of cities in the Middle East have if we have lost our Heimat?

I thus oppose Edict 9.6, the Heimat is more important then any crusade.

[OverKnight]

I will second Edict 9.6. If we don't commit troops now, the possibility exists that another Catholic realm might beat us to Damascus.

Also, Gunther, despite wondering how the Kaiser's staff keeps up, has updated the legislation list:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1557106&postcount=7

I also must remind everyone that there are about 46 hours left for this session, then voting will begin.

[FactionHeir]

As Duke of Kassel has said, we are in a race to get to Damascus. The crusade will not be lasting long enough that we cannot strike back at our foes, and thus there is nothing to worry about.

Besides, all houses except Austria have control of their respective crusader regions as drafted by our emperor Henry. Abandoning one house's rights completely, even though it is already geared up to commence crusading, in order to spend slightly more funds on campaigning elsewhere certainly is most unwise.

[OverKnight]

The Diet Speaker whispers something to Otto. Otto slaps his forehead and speaks again:

I have been reminded that if another candidate does not come forward to oppose Count Hans, he will gain the Chancellorship by default at the end of this session.

It seems that there are those among the Diet that disagree with the Count. Will any come forward to run against him?

[Stig]

As Duke of Kassel has said, we are in a race to get to Damascus. The crusade will not be lasting long enough that we cannot strike back at our foes, and thus there is nothing to worry about.
We should remember that we have an Outremer Kingdom. We can be in Damascus in a single year, all other nations need more then 20 years.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I fail to see the mystery in this situation. The facts are: Prinz Jobst ambushed a non-enemy army. That army was on Crusade, hence, we were not its target. He failed to show any regret or remorse for the situation. I think that's enough evidence for me.

[Stuperman]

A horse cough from the back signals Gerhard Steffen's intent to speak. He rises slowly, complaing under his breath of numerous ailments real or imagined.

See! that old dirtbag the pope even had the good sence to kick off before any real damage was done. Now we can use the church for our ends.

Prince Jobst was only acting in self defence of lands that have belonged to the Franconians for more than 100 years. The Danes hid under the banner of the Church as they raped and pillaged thier way through the heart of the Riech I ask my fellow electors, Is it right to let the slaughter of our people to go unanswered?

While some have questioned Prince Jobst's loyalty, He should be lauded for his tactical and strategic genius at defeating such a large and imposing invasion force. Given that the crusade will no doubt be completed by forces we already have in the outremer, that would leave A Massive Danish force somewhere in the eastern half of our empire without the restrictions placed on them by the pope. Do the rest of the electors think that this is a better situation? They ask for better defended boarders, but then criticize the prince for doing just that

We should strike back hard, and fast, Taking thier lands for ourselves.....we could even sell Stockholm to the English, which would no doubt improve our relations with them. Where others see a crisis, I see an opportunity, let us not waste it.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Are you mad?! That army was on CRUSADE! If they bothered to stop and actually attack us, half of their force would desert and the Danes would face instant excommunication! They were simply passing through, much like how we passed through Byzantine land on the way to Jerusalem. What does it say about our character if we block, nay, AMBUSH an army created for a most Holy purpose?

[Stig]

Ansehelm von Kastilien

Herr Salier is right. That army was no treat to us. In the past years we had the remains of both English and Scottish Crusaders in our country, and they did not attack us. That army wouldn't attack us. Prinz Jobst made a mistake in attacking it.
Next to that we don't have the armies to attack the Danes. The FHA is busy in the east, where it's fighting an unsupported war because some people are obsessed by crusading ... even though they destroy their friends.

[Stuperman]

Conrad Salier:
Are you mad?! That army was on CRUSADE!


So they had a piece of paper saying they wouldn't attack signed by man whose power's come from a 1200 year old book, is that suposed to mean something? You seem to have a lot of faith in a man who wanted us germans to MURDER HIS FATHER for him.


Conrad Salier:
If they bothered to stop and actually attack us, half of their force would desert and the Danes would face instant excommunication! They were simply passing through, much like how we passed through Byzantine land on the way to Jerusalem.

We've been excommunicated twice now, and as a result are the most powerful nation in the World, don't you think the Danes know this?



Conrad Salier:
What does it say about our character if we block, nay, AMBUSH an army created for a most Holy purpose?

Bah, 'holy purposes' Gerhard Spits on the floor, it says that is for Varius.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:


So they had a piece of paper saying they wouldn't attack signed by man whose power's come from a 1200 year old book, is that suposed to mean something?

By demeaning the Bible, you thereby are doubting or even possibly denying the divinity of Christ Himself. I would just like to point that out to everyone in the Diet.


We've been excommunicated twice now, and as a result are the most powerful nation in the World, don't you think the Danes know this?

We're the most powerful nation in the world in spite of our excommunications, not because of them. Surely you remember the rioting in Milan right after Kaiser Heinrich attacked Rome, where thousands of people were killed and we barely held onto the city?


Bah, 'holy purposes' Gerhard Spits on the floor, it says that is for Varius.

Since you will not listen to religion, it looks as if I am going to have to resort to logic on this one.

1. First of all, the Danes were supposedly on a Crusade, meaning that they stated to the world that their target was Damascus.

2. They had plenty of opportunities to attack our Franconian cities closest to their territory but did not, continuing to proceed through our land quickly and peacefully.

3. If, in fact, they did attack us, the following would happen:
- Many of their Crusaders, demoralized by the attack on a fellow Crusading nation, would desert in protest.
- They would be excommunicated by the Pope. Not a position they want to be in considering their current state of affairs.
- They would face the wrath of the Holy Roman Empire, or as you put it, "the most powerful nation in the world."

Again, I do not see how anyone but the Prinz is at fault here.

[Stuperman]

OOC: Gerhard does have 0 pity...

If religion prevents us from defending our boarders, allows foriegn armies to kill our citizenry without cause, and refuses to recognize all the Reich has done for it, why should I listen to it?

I have served this Holy Roman Empire for decades, pushed for prosparity with the church, and I've been 'rewarded' with a blight that kills the grass benieth my feet, a face that makes my wife turn away in horror, and unending sickness.

My loyalties lie with Germany, and her empire, not to some old fart in a funny hat.

[AussieGiant]

Arnold looks at the two men from the House of Bavaria and then at his father...they exchange words...Arnold then looks over at Otto the Duke of Bavaria

My lord Duke, it seems you have some internal Bavarian issues to resolve. May I suggest a solid day of jousting to calm their nerves?

Glance back at the two Bavaria gentlemen

You do realise gentlemen you are from the same house? You know that right?

I'd like to point out that Prinz Jobst attitude is more of a concern than the unfortunate accident in the forest. Having read the battle report there is no great achievement in having Knights carve up Spearmen at close quarters in a forest.

My Lord Gerhard,

You were my tutor and mentor in the last years before I came of age. Your not making sense at the moment my Lord. Your words and thoughts are not what you taught me in these last few years. I'm sure that foul witch has caused you some pain but I'm sure our priests can correct them in time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

As I have already discussed, Gerhard, we were in no danger of attack from the Danes.

[Stuperman]

Doubling over in pain brought on my a severe coughing fit, Gerhard's nose begins to bleed at the violence of the heaves comming from his lungs. He finally regains his composure, and responds holding his sleeve to his nose.

Perhaps not, but one German life is worth more than the whole populus of the Danish kingdom. If they were really there doing 'gods work' those norsemen wouldn't need to attack and kill HRE patrols.

[Stig]

Ansehelm

You should remember that we, or in this case the Prinz, attacked the Danes, they did not attack us.

[FactionHeir]

I am sure that the exact events of this incident will be elucidated once edict 9.4 is passed and spies are sent to Arhus and the battlesite.

[Stig]

I am sure that this does not matter as we know that the Prinz attacked the Danes, he said so himself:

"I swaer I'm going to take the prince out myself, got it?"

"CHARGE!" roared josb't and Fritz repeated the order. They spurred their horses on, thundering down the slopes of a hill, narrowly avoding trees.

"I've come to kill you Harald"

We don't need to investigate

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

Gentleman, I have these final words to say.

I didn't attack them, they attacked me first, so I counter attacked.

I was too kill Harald because of thought he was the Dnaish Prince, the traitor.

How am I supposed to know they were on Crusade!? I had been camping in the forests of North Germany for two years, no messages could get through, I had no clue of the happenings elsewhere!

Fellow electors, today I leave to North Germany again, I wish others to know I now have deep regret on trying to defend my own army, and also have deep regret that I tried to save myself. ANd I have great sorrow for killing Harald, I wish he had've killed me now.

I am leaving Rome, The Diet for at least another 5 years, and all of you who don't believe I was trying to save myself, I fel regret for defending myself.

Goodbye Diet, I leave for Dijon or North Germany.

Prinz Jobst gets up, and whispers in one of his aides ears, who rushes off, then leaves as Fritz escorts him out.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Yes, it's common for those who counter-attack to ambush their completely unsuspecting foe. My mistake.

[TinCow]

(OOC: My previous post this Diet session was before I took Lothar Steffen as my new avatar. Please pretend that post was made by Mandorf's lawyer or something otherwise there will be inconsistencies in my RP.)

*A teenager with a surprisingly bushy mustache stands, looking bored.*

After all the lecturing I have received from Godwine and Gottfried, my mentor and tutor... or is it Gottfried and Godwine? Hells, they're bloody identical except for those ridiculous hats...

*Lothar turns to a nearby servant.*

Tell Gottfried he must shave his beard immediately.

*The servant bows and turns to go.*

Wait! I'm not sure whether Gottfried is my mentor or my tutor, so that won't help at all. *Lothar scratches his head for a moment.* Nevermind, I shall deal with this later.

*Lothar sits down, seeming pleased with himself. It takes him a moment to realize the entire Diet is silent and looking at him.*

OH! Right, yes... the Imperial Diet... *Lothar gives a short chuckle. No one else seems amused. He rolls his eyes.* (By the hells this place is full stodgy old bastards. It's a wonder that half of them don't drop dead of sheer boredom every morning.)

POLITICS! DIPLOMACY! Yes, this is the wise and venerable council of the Holy Roman Empire. Let us discuss treaties and religion, certainly the watchwords of a successful life. Prinz Jobst may have violated Imperial law by his actions, but what damage has it really caused us? Excommunication? HAH! That didn't last bloody long at all! Poor relationships with our fellow Catholics? Half of them are at war with us already! Those who are not at war with us refrain from taking up arms simply because they know we would crush them. *Lothar slams his fist on a table and grins broadly.*

I forget most of what Godfriend and Gottwine (Gottfried and Godwine?) have droned on about, but two things I know well: war and money! The Reich thrives on both. One begets the other and vice versa in a never ending cycle. (Or was that virtue and piety?) It has always been this way and so it will always be. As a consequence of Prinz Jobst's actions, we are now at war with the Danes.

GOOD! Let's damned well crush them! They hold rich lands. If they are too weak to hold them, then that is their own fault. Oh yes, I suppose some of you will drone on and on about our reputation... *Lothar rolls his eyes.* Well the Danes are the enemies of our English allies! What will our oh so peaceful neighbors think if we don't come to the aid of our most afflicted friends? Surely aiding England by conquering the Danish provinces will make others think better of us.

*Lothar shrugs.* And if not, well, there's plenty of German steel to share with the rest of them! *He smiles and looks pleased with himself.* (Oh, summation! Hells, Gottwit... Godwit?... always said to do a summation at the end.)

WAR AND MONEY! YES! We need them... or want them... or something like that. Prinz Jobst's actions, right or wrong, provide us with the perfect opportunity. We should be thanking him, not scorning him. Right. That's it. I'm done.

*Lothar sits down. The Diet is still dead quiet and most of the Electors are looking at him quizzically. He leans over to the man sitting next to him.* (Is this almost over yet?) *The man clearly tries to ignore Lothar, who frowns and looks around the room. He smiles a bit when he sees Gerhard Steffen a few benches away.*

Hi, Dad!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

...oh, dear...


Prinz Jobst may have violated Imperial law by his actions, but what damage has it really caused us?

Young Steffin, it is precisely this kind of talk that threw the Roman Republic, much more powerful at the time than us now, into a bloody civil war. Apparently your mentor, whoever he be, has not yet completed your schooling.


Excommunication? HAH! That didn't last bloody long at all!

Next time, we won't be as lucky.

By the way, I bid you welcome to the Diet.

[gibsonsg91921]

Tyrolia's aide:

Herr Salier, I respect your position as Count of Rome, but I believe that such harsh punishment is unsound. After all, the Prinz of the almighty Reich certainly holds enough sway to make a decision by himself.

I believe that instead of this Diet focusing on the punishment of a so-called crime, we need to focus on amending its consequences. Edicts 9.1 and 9.3 will serve to show our force and heal our relationships with trusted allies such as England and Portugal.

I stand on the side of the Steffen family. I believe we should take advantage of the Danish army's depletion and the Franconian and Swabian armies can drive them into the ground!

As for Hans running for Chancellor, I believe from reading his manifesto that he will make a fine leader of our people for the next 20 years.

Tyrolia's aide sits down with the other Austrian nobles.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:


After all, the Prinz of the almighty Reich certainly holds enough sway to make a decision by himself.

Not according to the Charter he doesn't. If he wishes to run things differently then perhaps he should run for Chancellor.

[OverKnight]

Otto stands and speaks:

The purpose of this Diet session is to propose and pass legislation for the next Chancellor's term. It is not a tribunal.

While the Prinz's cavalier attitude toward the consequences of the battle against the Danes is alarming to me, the fact remains the two armies stumbled into each other. Somehow, neither army seemed to be aware of the other's approach until the last moment. The Prinz responded to the slaying of his pickets by laying an ambush so that he could stand a chance against a larger, seemingly hostile force.

While the Danes were on Crusade, it would not be the first time a Crusade army took advantage of a holy mission to gain more temporal prizes. The Hungarians seized Constantinople while embarked on the original Crusade to Jerusalem. The Prinz knew this, and made the best decision he could with the available information. Yes, mistakes were made, but we have the benefit of hindsight when we judge the situation. To assign blame before we know all the facts would be foolish.

If, after an investigation, the Prinz is found culpable, then it will be up to this Diet to craft an appropriate punishment. However, there is no proof at the moment. Please remember this.

Thank you my lords.

Otto sits.

[Northnovas]

Karl Zirn stands and speaks ....

Electors, I must concur with Duke von Kassel on our work to be done while we are sitting. There are currently two Edicts 9.2 and 9.4 that address the Prince's actions. Let our ballots count. If we wish to relieve his command then we will vote has such and if we wish this incident to be investigated then we will vote to send the proper personnel to Denmark. There is no need to further discuss and speculate matters at this time.
I would like to give the honourable noble the benefit of doubt but we cannot make decisions till the facts have been uncovered and presented to this floor.
We have little time left to discuss laws and vote.
There may not be a vote for the Chancellor but we can discuss and vote on the mandate we wish to give him for his term of office.

The member looks around at the Electors and returns to his seat...

[OverKnight]

Otto speaks again:

My lords, Maximillian Mandorf made it known to me that he wished his son, Conrad Salier, to inherit his County after he had passed on. I have spoken with Conrad, and with his agreement, I now name him Count of Nuremburg. Of course, this leaves Milan without a noble ruler, but I wished to honor Maximillian's memory.

[OverKnight]

There are 24 hours remaining to this session. If the Electors wish to second or propose further edicts, now would be a good time.

[AussieGiant]

From his seated position Arnold speaks up

Are we really going to have an uncontested election for Chancellor?

[Ignoramus]

A subdued hush falls upon the Diet, as Ulrich Hummel, Prinz of Antioch walks in. Many are suprised at his sudden appearence at the Diet.

Mein electors, I am disgusted at the way you fawn and grovel at the feet of the Kaiser. Are we not the free electors of the Reich? We are lying prostrate at the feet of tyrannt!

Mein men fought and died against the infidel. I resigned mein Duchy, mein station, and took up the cross. And yet I find that I am not allowed to have a say over the very land that I won by the sword.

I hereby stand for election as Chancellor, as I seriously doubt the capacity of the Kaiser's son, who, if I might add, is cast in the same mould of his father, to govern this Reich fittingly.

Those in the Holy Land have given up everything to fight for the cross; they should be allowed to rule that which they have gained.

Charter Ammendment 9.2: "Three independent Crusader lordships shall be carved out of the Outremer:

The Principality of Antioch, consisting of Antioch itself and all Cilicia(Adana)
The County of Tripoli, consisting of Lebanon(Acre).
The County of Edessa, consisting of Mesoptamia(Edessa).

These lordships shall be autonomous parts of the Reich.

As such, they are authorised to:

Maintain a standing army of at least 8 units.
Issue orders for their standing army.
Dictate the order of construction in their settlements.
Appoint their successors.
Decide what fortifications(forts and watchtowers) shall be constructed in their realm.
Elect a King of the Outremer from among their number to oversee the Council of Crusaders.
Debate legislation in the Council of Crusaders, which if passed must be followed the Imperial Diet."

This, I say, gives such men their due, without compromising the Kaiser's authority or influence on the Holy Land.

For, how can one man govern two realms? For such is the case with Henry. Even as I speak, the Russians continue to occupy the fortress at Thorn. Our Reich is very large, and as such, the Holy Land must be allowed to govern themselves.

Remember mein words, electors, remember them, lest we fall foul of our enemies.

Ulrich bows and exits the Diet.

[TinCow]

ARNOLD!

*Lothar grins broadly and slaps the son of the Austrian Duke on the back.*

My friend, why don't you run for Chancellor! I'll vote for you! Let's show this circus that ability is not limited to the... *Lothar gives a sarcastic bow* ...aged. Think of it! You can be Chancellor and I will be your mailed fist, leading our magnificent armies to crush all those who oppose us! HAH!

Let's go get a beer and talk, my friend!

[econ21]

Kaiser Henry: My Lords, it is good to be back amongst you in person, once again! I am particularly grateful to King Otto for overseeing proceeding in the Diet in my absence.

I have posted a final report on my term as Chancellor - I would appreciate any comments or reactions. Copious grovelling and fawning would of course be most welcome, but not obligatory, my dear Prinz of Antioch.

[OverKnight]

Otto rubs the scar on his face in agitation, it is unclear if his unease stems from Ulrich Hummel's declaration and abrupt exit or Lothar Steffen's continued assault on the decorum of the Diet.

Well it seems you have your wish, Count Arnold. The Prinz of Antioch's proposal will be numbered CA 9.5 as the number he gave is already taken.

I assume the tirade against the man who gave him his honorific title in the first place will count as his manifesto.

Sotto voce:

Hmmm, I could use a beer myself.

Edit: Welcome back your Majesty.

[AussieGiant]

Grinning, Arnold stands

Lothar you mad bastard, I'm sure we would have just as much fun governing the Reich as we did growing up together on that accursed island with that mad witch!!

I hope you didn't go near her!!??

Somehow I just don't see myself getting elected their fella. Good thought though...I certainly like your line of thought.

How about we go out after this and get hammered on some of that Venetian wine??!!

[AussieGiant]

With a sudden change in attitude and a look of dread in his eyes Arnold stands again and address the back of the departing Ulrich with a harsh and cutting voice

That's a sure way to find yourself on the wrong end of a lance Ulrich!! I'll take your old bones apart if you are really feeling that spry!!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Sir Hummel, I believe the Crusaders fought primarily to redeem the sins of the Reich, not to conquer additional lands. Also, I believed that the subsequent conquest of further lands in the Levant were to provide adequate support to the newest Papal holdings in Jerusalem.

[FactionHeir]

*Hans coughs after hearing Hümmel's words and stands to speak*

My fellow lords and electors. Do you not also feel that Hümmel's words are truly ironic? He himself was the one who 'groveled' and 'fawned' at our emperor's feet to marry his daughter, join the house of Swabia and gain position in the empire.

And was the purpose of our most holy crusade truly only to gain lands for ourselves, and not for the glory and redemption of our empire?
No my lords, it is our combined force and will, namely this diet and our charter, which makes this empire the power that it is and giving it the potential to grow and prosper - not the bickering of nobles who wish to fight only for personal gain, without regard for the unity we stand for.
And so I ask: Would we all be here today in this grand empire of one nation, if all of us were to each only stand for our own petty interests instead of that of our house or our empire as a whole?
I am hopeful the answer should be clear to all of us.

[TevashSzat]

I am sorry for my lack of participation within this diet due to a lack of time. I do not have any opinions on any of the edicts yet, but choose to propose one for Swabia. Edict 9.7: The House of Swabia will be allowed to take French territories until they plea for peace or is reconciled I am still trying to read over everything proposed right now but I fear it may take quite a while to formulate my responses

[Northnovas]

The Austrian Elector stands after some reassuring words to the young Arnold....

My Kasier, let me be the first to welcome you back and see you safe from your travels. I would also like to say that your final Chancellor report was very thorough and the next Chancellor will have a difficult tasks to follow up the excellent work you have done. The member bows deeply towards the Kaiser.

Electors, the business had hand. Sir Hummel's CA 9.5 I cannot support. This goes against the initial work of why we went to the East. The Kaiser has made a proposal in CA 9.1 that will protect Christianity in the Kingdom of the Outremer as mentioned by Lord Salier.
Lord Hummel's legislation identifies three areas but there are four Houses. The Council of Crusades will dictate to the Diet! This will not do! This will lead to fragmentation of the Reich. Our Houses might as well go on there own right now and be independent Duchies!

But I digress, we can have one ruler over many lands as our most excellent Kaiser as demonstrated. We just need a strong administration in the Office of Chancellor with the plan formulated by this Diet. We work together instead of factions of interest. This great Reich has the potential to rule over many lands by God's grace.

It would be rude of me if I did not add that I commend Elector Hummel's decision to run for Chancellor. It is good for this Diet to be able to have elections for such an important position.

The Elector returns to his seat to discuss drinking locations with the young noble...

[OverKnight]

An updated list of legislation is available:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1557106&postcount=7

In response to Duke Scherer's proposal, I believe with the recent death of the Pope, the French, along with us, were reconciled. There standing with the new Pope is very low (0/10 I think) but they are still part of the Church for now.

[econ21]

Kaiser Henry: The Ninth Diet session is now closed for the proposing of edicts and amendments. Voting will begin shortly.

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hummel strides into the Diet chambers. He quickly moves to Swabian side and begins to address the Diet.

"Mein electors, we face many new challenges and threats since we last assembled. The Russians have burst through our eastern frontier and have stormed the castle at Thorn. There are reports of strange barbarians from the east.

In such times of war and devastation, defense is not enough. I, therefore, propose controlled offensives against the Reich's enemies. If this august body deems me worthy to lead the Reich, I shall swear upon mein honour and all the Duke of Bavaria's relics that I, Ulrich Hummel, Count of Lorraine, shall lead the Reich to a glory rivalling that of ancient Rome itself!

The Romans ruled the world, from the wall of Hadrian to the edges of the Mesopotamian desert. There is no reason why we, the true heirs of Rome, and of Charlemagne, cannot achieve at rightful place at the head of the Mediterranean.

Such heights, however, cannot be attained easily while enemies lie at every corner. Therefore, I propose that we seek out and destroy those armies that threaten our borders, and force them to sue for peace while they still live.

That, mein electors, is how the new Rome shall rival the old."

Ulrich bows and leaves the Diet.

[Stig]

Ansehelm stands again

I applaud you Herr Hümmel, you have got my vote for the position of Chancellor. I believe that you will be able to recapture the lost city of Thorn, my city of Thorn.

[AussieGiant]

A messenger makes his way to the Diet floor in the livery of House Austria. He clears his throat and begins to read the unfurled parchment

My Lords,

Now that my father is leading the Riech's new Crusading Army to Damascus, I hear by follow his wishes. I am now the Steward of Austria until such time as my father returns or god takes him from this earth.

Long live the Reich!!

The messanger folds the parchment and departs the Diet floor

[Warluster]

The spy Dieter von Darmstadt enters the DIet,closely accompanied by Fritz,Prinz Jobst's main captain and bodyuard


Mein lords,counts and Duke,

And of course mein great Kaiser,

I have been sent by Prinz Jobst, who does not wish to be back at the Diet for some years

Dieter glares at some people from the paper he's reading

He has sent a message, which I shall read out:




Mein fellow electors, mein Kaiser,
I have been warded off Rome for now, but I have very joyful news.
Dieter von Darmstadt recently investigated the place where the battle between the EIA and the Danish Crusaders happened.

I sent him to report to you persoanlly,
I also welcome back mein Kaiser, we missed you much. I also congratulate mein fellow swabian Chancellor Hans on attaining the position of Chancellor.
I shall return soon after I go to help the Franconians fight off those Poles,

God be with you,
Prinz Jobst,
Count of Dijon,
Commander of the EIA,


mein fellows,

At the battle I found many dead, of both Danes and Germans.

I found that the Danish Family Member was killed from Crossbow fire.

And I also found that the Danish were those who struck first, several german Scouts were found dead on the edge of the forest, and with interviews with the soldiers under command of Jobst, they thought it was a invading French army, and they knew not it was a Crusading Danish Army.

If there are any inquires Prinz Jobst has said I may fill in his position in the Diet for now, until he returns.

Dieter bows and sits where Jobst usually sits, while Fritz sits behind him.

[Stig]

A messenger from Breslau enter the Diet reading out the following message


Meine Herren,

I must say that I do not believe that Prinz Jobst is free to go. Ofcourse it would have been nice if the Danes told us they were coming, but we knew that a crusade was going on, so they were free to pass through. Now we are at war with them, not because of them, but because of the Prinz.
And here he is, offering his help to Franconia. May I remind him, that he is the one that got Franconia into more trouble. We lost my city of Thorn, we have trouble with the Poles, and here is Jobst, getting us into trouble with the Danes as well. A big thank you.

If Jobst really wants to help us, I suggest he takes his men and joins the crusade. That way he'll do the Reich a favour, and he doesn't get Franconia into trouble.

Ansehelm von Kastilien
Count of Thorn
Current Governor of Breslau
Heir of Franconia

[FactionHeir]

*Hans sighs and begins to speak*

My lords,
While I would like to believe what Dieter von Darmstadt is reporting, I should caution that the findings do neither prove nor disprove the events.
So, we know some bodies of our individuals bearing the Imperial uniform have been found at the edge of the forest, but does that really tell us anything?
And so I ask,
Were they truly Germans and if so, were they officially part of our Prince's forces? For all we know someone could have stolen these uniforms.
Were they slain by the Danes or in a dispute with their own comrades or even another group we are not aware of?
Were they the ones who initiated the aggression?
Did they truly die where they were found or were they moved there or did they even get slain during the ensuing battle, merely slightly detached from the main force?

We lack information my lords, information, that I sent this man out to forage, yet he only brings back two pieces of some importance, the second one being, that some soldiers thought it was a French invasion. Considering we have been at war with France and the French wear quite different uniforms, is the story that some soldiers tell truly reliable?

Now, while these pieces do not redeem our Prince, they also do not incriminate him. There is a lack of any credible source that could tell the true story, for the soldiers will try to protect themselves and their commander, the Danes will incriminate us and the locals will say whatever they are paid to say or they like, and the slain do not seem to give much away.

The spy Hugo on the other hand sends word that Prince Haakon of Denmark is still alive, which means that the noble slain north of Staufen is not him, unless the informant is mistaken.

I would ask for anyone who believes there may be another avenue of investigation to speak up so it can be pursued.

[gibsonsg91921]

I, Ehrhart von Mahren, Count of Prague, believe this matter should be settled once and for all. A prosecution committee shall hear the crimes and the evidence, and question Prinz Jobst before this Diet. This committee should number in four, and each Duchy should have one representative. Then, an open vote whether the Prinz is guilty of attacking the Danish Crusaders preemptively or not, and the Kaiser Henry shall prescribe his doom, if he is found guilty.

I propose that the 4 representatives shall be those who have most strongly questioned our noble Prinz's actions, thus justice, if necessary, shall certainly be carried out.

[OverKnight]

Otto thinks a bit and speaks:

In order for such two large forces to stumble upon each other unawares, there must be some sort of conspiracy afoot on their side or ours, most likely both. Agents provocateurs in both forces could have caused the confrontation. Perhaps if we followed a trail of florins in this matter. . .though we don't know specifics, treachery of this level requires large bribes. Are any of our men, particularly in the Prinz's forces that day, newly rich? Are any survivors of the former Danish crusader force enriched despite their defeat? The army is still near our borders, perhaps if we dispatched a spy there, we might find some answers.

[gibsonsg91921]

However, idle debate and information-gathering without action is futile. We must try Prinz Jobst for his alleged crimes, and put this madness behind us swiftly and quietly without erupting more argument.

[OverKnight]

So a show trial with little evidence for innocence or guilt is the correct way to put this behind us without causing more arguments?

I do not see the logic in this.

The edict barring Prinz Jobst from command failed. There is no new evidence to suggest his guilt. What would a trial accomplish but cause further dissent and suspicion?

[gibsonsg91921]

I see the wisdom of your words, King Otto.

Why then do you keep uttering them if this situation is ended?

*Whispers to his retinue of advisers*

[FactionHeir]

*Hans can be seen whispering something to Adalberth who nods and leaves the diet*

[Stig]

Ansehelm himself enters the diet, after a journey which was as short as possible

My dear Hans, after hearing from my assistant Bernhard, Freiherr von Lippe, of what you told I must say I disagree with you.
Yes nothing incriminates the Prinz, and yes nothing redeems the Prinz, however: Any good general would scout the enemy before going to battle. These scouts would have found that this was a Danish army, which was: a. not our enemy, b. on crusade. After seeing this the Prinz could have simply not attacked.

Now that I heard that there are two big Danish armies in my ancestral lands I suggest what you already said, sending the Prinz to drive them off, he caused these problems, and he can solve them.


Ansehelm turns his direction at Erhart von Mahren

My friend, the Diet has already spoken about Prinz Jobst's quilt, in Edict 9.2. And only six men, being the Duke of Franconia (your former duke), Fredericus von Hamburg, your father Jonas von Mahren, and myself, together the entire house of Franconia, in which the battle took place and Conrad Salier and your brother Sigismund found him quilty.

[gibsonsg91921]

I was merely questioning the need for additional debate because Edict 9.2 failed.

[Stig]

If an Edict fails, there's a reason too

Ansehelm leaves the Diet, jumps on his horse and rides to the far lands in the North again, Thorn should be liberated once he gets there

[FactionHeir]

My lords, I draw your attention to the preliminary report that I have supplied the diet *Hans motions to a pile of neatly sorted papers that is just being placed on the emperor's desk*

As we speak, Günther von Kastilien is battling the Russians to retake Thorn and Jonas von Mahren is engaging a Venetian force that separates him from Ragusa.
I hope the diet finds the speed at which I am tackling the various edicts and orders agreeable so far and pray for the victory of these two men over our mutual enemies.

[gibsonsg91921]

Excellent! I am certain that Ansehelm will be pleased that Gunther is retaking his countyship for him.

I hope my father is brave and strong during his battle with the Venetians.

[AussieGiant]

Dear Chancellor,

Is it at all possible for the forces in Ragusa to assist Lord von Mahren with the Venetian's. I know there are a few people, myself include that are keen for a battle?

[FactionHeir]

I wish it were, but I am afraid the rocky terrain and limited supplies will not lead you further than the border to Durazzo.

[AussieGiant]

Scheisse!!

[OverKnight]

Otto raises an eyebrow as Arnold's loud oath echoes throughout the Diet.

I understand that we need many ships to transport the new Crusade and to maintain shipping lanes to Outremer. However, with Milan unwisely landing troops again in Italy, this highlights the current lack of our own naval forces in the western Mediterranean. Perhaps we should have finished them when we had the chance.

Otto rubs his facial scar.

Still the past is the past, I hope the Chancellor will address this temporary lack of ships so that are coasts in the southwest are not subject to any more invasions or possible blockades.

[OverKnight]

Having reviewed the latest reports, Otto speaks again:

It seems the BHA is the closest army to relieve Zagreb. Due to Gerhard's illness, there is no knight leading the force. I would ask the Diet's permission to give Lothar Steffen temporary leave to command the BHA despite his status as a mere Squire. He indeed has not been knighted, but this is an emergency situation. I would not lose Zagreb to the Hungarians because we obstinately stuck to tradition.

This move would be with precedent, Prinz Jobst himself led an army as a Squire during Sigismund der Stoltze's Chancellorship.

The boy is young, but he does have a talent for command.

What say all of you?


OOC: BHA is NE of Venice, two turns away from Zagreb.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I for one support King Otto's proposal with the BHA. Desperate times, my friends. Are we going to let Italy be threatened and not do anything about it because of procedural limitations? I sure hope not. It would be most humiliating.

[FactionHeir]

King Otto.
If you read my reports closely, we have a fleet defending Italy and the west, but I chose not to engage the Milanese fleet as we currently are not at war with them and attacking them pre-emptively would require an edict of the diet. Instead, I have sunk several Hungarian fleets passing these waters. This fleet is now underway to Iberia, but if there should be problems surfacing closer to our capital, I will build another fleet.

I too am concerned about the Milanese landing party, but unless you invoke your right to hostility under the charter if a neutral army enters Duchal territory, my hands are bound in that matter.

[OverKnight]

Otto inclines his head at Hans.

Thank you for your quick reply, Chancellor. I am not overly concerned about the Milanese, it is only a small force. The Hungarians are the more dire threat at this point.

It would be Steward Gerhard's decision whether he wished to declare war against the merchant interlopers or not. Personally, I would let them strike first to bring down the ire of the Church on them and to keep our diplomatic reputation intact.

Thank you.

[Warluster]

Dieter von Darmstadt stands,bearing a message

I have here a message from Prinz Jobst himself.

I shan't read it out, but he fully agrees with the Count of Thorn, and proposes to head north and stop the two Danish Armies coming forth.

I,Dieter, Prinz Jobst's messenger, shall notify Prinz Jobst on all things happening, andPrinz Jobst shall be back soon.

Also one of my colleagues, shall investigate the battle grohnd mre if mein lordz wish.

Dieter leaves the Diet,closely followed by Fritz

[gibsonsg91921]

Hang tradition! It is time to act for what needs be acting. Lothar can lead the BHA to save Zagreb.

[FactionHeir]

I believe the reason we only let knights lead armies is explained by the previous combat experience one gains by commanding a smaller regiment during a battle under an experienced commander. Is it truly wise to send someone who had no experience whatsoever at commandeering a small force even to organize and lead a large household army into battle?
It is understandable that some of our younger nobles thirst to lead an army, but they ought to win their spurs first.
I will endeavor to have the BHA with Lothar Steffen and Peter von Kastilien help in defending Zagreb against the ensuing Hungarian assault under the local garrison commander if the city is not taken before they can reach it.

If the Hungarians do indeed take Zagreb before the BHA arrives, I will have it lay siege at once. I believe the two of them should be able to maintain a siege long enough for Jonas von Mahren to arrive.

[gibsonsg91921]

True, but time spent is time wasted! We cannot afford to lose more provinces to the Eastern barbarians. Several uncommitted squires can meet up with Lothar to make a battle council and they will have experience gained together. Two minds are better than one.

[TinCow]

Chancellor, you would give control of the battle for Zagreb to a militia captain over a nobleman with extensive military training? I may not have drawn blood in battle, but I can guarantee you that I know more about military affairs than some merchant with a fancy suit of armor!

What do the Austrians have to say about this matter? Would they prefer that their city be defended by a militia captain, or a Bavarian friend with immense military training and an entire Household Army at his back?

[gibsonsg91921]

I am from the House of Austria, and I would rather have Lothar Steffen, or any noble squire for that matter, lead the charge than some poor ragamuffin who has no ability to lead large numbers of men. I only worry for the life of the son of Gerhard, but I am sure he shall be brave and up for the challenge.

Lothar, I would send a message to Karl Zirn, son-in-law of Duke Leopold and Count of Zagreb, to hear of his opinion.

[TinCow]

Shall we allow a minor legal problem to threaten the security of the most ancient and noble House of Austria? Bah, this is ridiculous. It seems clear to me that you will not bow to reason, but I refuse to accept this situation and I also refuse to abandon my Austrian allies.

The law says that a man must be Knighted to command an army of seven regiments or more. So be it. Give me 5 regiments of Bavarian foot soldiers and I shall do the rest. A handful of Bavarians is more than a match for a horde of Hungarians any day, not least when a Steffen is in command!

[OverKnight]

Otto raises an eyebrow, as if surprised at the direction the debate has taken.

An interesting proposal Lothar. I do not doubt your skill, but perhaps Peter von Kastilien, who is also travelling with the BHA, could lead a 6 unit contingent himself as reinforcements. We do not know if Zagreb will still be standing by the time you get there, and I would not have our forces defeated piecemeal.

[gibsonsg91921]

In the interest of Austria, this loophole in our Great Charter should be exploited.

[Stuperman]

Good luck to you my son.

[AussieGiant]

Gentlemen,

If we are going to take this line of reasoning then the forces sitting in Ragusa with my own body guard can also join the hunt!!

Jonas with the AHA can therefore engage and occupy the Venetian's to the south east and prevent any attack on Ragusa by them.

I can then travel with the von Mahren's and von Hamburg nobles with most of the Ragusa detachment and meet Lothar at an agreed point. We can them march on Zagreb and then Budapest if need be.

All I ask is that those squires that request it, become knighted in this action.

What say you Chancellor?

Inclining his head towards Otto Arnold continues

King Otto,

You have my gratitude in proposing a brief departure from tradition. I'm sure if it wasn't for your suggestion it would have been dismissed out of hand if myself or Lothar had made the request.

Looking over at Lothar, Arnold stands with a grin on his face, both young men are clearly ready to spring into action as soon as the word is given

[Warluster]

Jobst enters the Diet just before the debate ends, and arives in time to hear Arnold speak, watching him, he looks away and stands and whispers

Too eager this younger ones... excellent.

He looks around

mein fellow electors, if Thessalonica is not taken, perhaps when the united Ausrian/bavarian Armies have finished with Zafreb and bUdapest, they could move in on Thessalonica?

It would be ripe for the taking, when these two young commanders are done, Arnold could follow his fathers footsteps and finally take Thessalonica, and Lothar could defend Bavaria from the Milanese Invaders.

To other matters;

I receive news from Dieter, he sources say the Veneatians may still be on Crete? Perhaps if we wanted to rid our seas of their nuisance we should take out the outost there? it would be a great stopover for our Crusaders, and a base for the Crusade?

Jobst sits

[gibsonsg91921]

In that case I desire to join the hunt!

[Stig]

A messenger from Ansehelm enters the Diet and speaks


Meine Herren

Young Ehrhart, you must remember that there are more duties to a man than to go on "hunting". Austria is big and entire Austria needs to be defended. Soon your father will return to Franconia which means you have to do the things on your own. Thessalonica is far away and the journey is long. While the Austrian Household Army is away other cities need proper defences. The Hungars themselves will mostlikely not stay away. They'll come back, and when they come Austria should be ready for it.

As to Crete, attacking it sounds interesting, but we need the Household armies in the Reich and Crete is simply too far away. The Prinz's Imperial Army will be occupied with the Danes, and I don't know what der Kaiser himself wants to do. Sending an expedition to Crete sounds promising, but could be very dangerous, I think it's best to stay away from these plans for the coming years and look into them again later on.

Ansehelm
Heir to Franconia
Count of Thorn (maybe within the following hours it's ours again)

[gibsonsg91921]

Alas! Ansehelm is correct - all the generals of Austria cannot be committed to a single task. I am ever eager to receive my knightship, but I am afraid that must wait.

[FactionHeir]

*Hans be heard muttering something about a dog and a bone*

Please note that our borders are already far stretched and are becoming more difficult to defend given the funds we have while we still want to expand economically. I would advise against capturing regions at this time unless they are of strtegic importance and help defend our borders better rather than stretching them even thinner. That is, we should concentrate only on regions directly bordering us that can sustain themselves in terms of troop production and may be used to defend other nearby regions already under our control.

[Kagemusha]

Messenger enters the diet.

"I report that the Venetian army east to Durazzo has been defeated. The Austrian household army took some casulties,since we were fighting against almost 650 mounted Venetian knights supported by other troops. But with the help of God and good German dicipline,we were able to defeat the foe. I suggest that reinforcements should be send to strengthen this battered army and then we should attack Durazzo.

Jonas Von Mahren"

http://img181.imagevenue.com/view.php?image=87608_vbat9_122_507lo.jpg

[FactionHeir]

Well done Count von Mahren, truly well done. I shall have the young nobles from Ragusa join you at once if you wish, but I will caution that this will delay your road north to break the siege of Zagreb. In the light of Lothar Steffen's offer however, that may not be required.

OOC: I'll have to remove all other knight units from the AHA though as otherwise the knight limit is exceeded. Personally I think GB shouldn't count as knights for the army composition but merely as cavalry.

[econ21]

OOC: Personally I think GB shouldn't count as knights for the army composition but merely as cavalry.

OOC: GB are definitely included as knights. Due to the 2HPs and regenerating abilities, we need to limit their use in particular - I've read posts of single BGs destroying whole armies. The historical armies rule does state max 2 BG per army as well.

[gibsonsg91921]

Excellent father! Some day I wish to have the same battle prowess as you.

[FactionHeir]

My lords, gave tidings.

Hungary has taken Zagreb from us but at least they have shown mercy to the populace. Nevertheless, the pope has excommunciated them.
I suggest that we retake Zagreb quickly with Lother Steffen nearby with a small but elite force. Also, I will personally take Sofia from them to stop further invasions into Austrian lands.

Milan has broken the truce and lays siege to Florence. I will call back our fleet and start blockading their ports pending further notice from Bavaria on how they wish to respond.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

This is distressing news indeed. Is there any force in the area that can get to Florence quickly enough or shall we have to wait for a House Army to get us out of danger?

[FactionHeir]

We currently have few forces guarding Italy as the BHA is aiding the Austrians. However, readily available are a few light cavalry regiments and one regiment of pavise crossbows as well as the usual militia. Gerhard Steffen and Fritz von Kastilien are also nearby.
Considering that Lothar Steffen will only take part of the BHA, I will send back the remainder immediately.
Reports from the crossbows I commanded to retreat indicate that the new landing party is solely footknights. I still lack intelligence on the small army besieging Florence however but this should be alleviated as time passes.

In other news, I would like to inform the diet that Thorn is back in Franconia's hands.

[OverKnight]

Otto stands and speaks:

My lords, with the second Crusade rapidly approaching the Levant, It is now time to assign the Outremer counties.

I am happy to assign the County of Aleppo to Fredericus von Hamburg.

Adana is assigned to Conrad Salier, may he do Bavaria and Outremer proud.

Otto's expression grows a bit stern.

Even though Ulrich Hummel was the only member of the Diet to vote against this current system, and might consider this a demotion, I offer him Acre. Despite our differences, he has served Outremer well.

Edit: If I am unable to fulfill my term, I ask that Duke Leopold be appointed in my place, he is a fearsome General and as an ex-Chancellor he would be an able leader for the Kingdom.

I ask you to join me in congratulating the first Crusader Counts!

[AussieGiant]

Congratulation to you all!!

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

But on the matter of Crete, it is a very strategiclly well placed place.

Think about it, we capture Crete, we control most shipping from Europe to the Holy Land? Plus a good area to qyuickly supply our Crusaders!

On the matter of who to take, it can be an expedition force, an Austrain General can raise a rather small expedtion and take Crete, he could then return to Europe.

It wouldn't cost much, as it is advanced already, and we could make it a major money maker. Plus it woyld knock out our major enemy!

Think on it gentlemen,

Prinz Jobst sits

[AussieGiant]

Now to business back here in the Reich.

Lothar can you please kick the crap out of those Hungarians in Zagreb.

Jonas, are we feeling lucky?

Chancellor, any particular reason you left the remaining foot in Ragusa? Are your trying to have my knighthood be the shortest in history?

[Ignoramus]

Ulrich Hummel rises to speak.

Very well, mein King, I shall serve you as Count of Tripoli. But remember that I am not a piece of dirt to be trodden underfoot.

Ulrich bows and makes preparations to depart to his new county.

[FactionHeir]

Steward Arnold, the foot in Ragusa was recently hired this year and would not be able to make it down to Durazzo in time. It will be able to join you once you head north though. The crossbowmen that you reinforced von Mahren with were the most recent garrison of Ragusa. Ehrhart von Mahren is also on his way down and should be able to lead the additional pavise regiment to your east.

[AussieGiant]

Steward Arnold, the foot in Ragusa was recently hired this year and would not be able to make it down to Durazzo in time. It will be able to join you once you head north though. The crossbowmen that you reinforced von Mahren with were the most recent garrison of Ragusa. Ehrhart von Mahren is also on his way down and should be able to lead the additional pavise regiment to your east.


Dear Chancellor,

Were there not 2 units of DFK and 2 units of spearmen as part of the garrison also?

I swear I saw them training in the coutryard?

[FactionHeir]

The spears were recently trained and the knights were not available to reinforce the AHA (limit on knights). I have sent what I could.
Regarding this matter, the Doge has sallied forward and I await word from von Mahren on the outcome of the battle.

(Odds 1:1)

[AussieGiant]

The spears were recently trained and the knights were not available to reinforce the AHA (limit on knights). I have sent what I could.
Regarding this matter, the Doge has sallied forward and I await word from von Mahren on the outcome of the battle.

(Odds 1:1)

OOC:

Hot dog...am I there though? :inquisitive:

[FactionHeir]

Indeed, now make haste for Durazzo before the battle is over!

In other news, I present you the final chancellor's report for the year 1226 of our Lord.

[OverKnight]

My lords the news of the Chancellor's victory over the Hungarians is wonderful news. We have crushed our enemy and aided our ally in one fell swoop. I congratulate Count Hans on his victory.

I begin to think, however, that we may be overextended in the south east of the Reich. I hope Lothar will return Zagreb to the Empire, but our forces around Durazzo are worn down. I have heard rumors that the Chancellor wishes to take Sofia. This would be heavy blow to the Magyars, but can we hold down this Fortress while stabilizing Austria's borders? The addition of Sofia to the Reich would add hundreds of miles to our borders, frontiers vulnerable to attack from the Hungarians to the north and the Venetians to the south.

I fear we might be crossing the line from the defense of the Reich to all out greed for land. I'm all for fighting an effective campaign against our enemies, but if we expand too quickly we risk overextension and the collapse of our defenses in the interior, similar to what happened at Zagreb. If we take Sofia, I feel it should be offered to the Byzantines for military access, or used in peace negotiations with the Hungarians. The Poles, Venetians, Milan and France remain our true enemies in Europe, let us strengthen our efforts against them by removing the Magyars as an enemy. Our border with Hungary is vast and mostly undefended, with several key spots left unsupervised. We should address this weakness by seeking peace, Sofia could provide the neccesary chit.

As for Outremer, the gathering storm around Damascus shows that the next few years will be critical. I ask the Chancellor to give me leave to take the field. My new drillmaster and I have recruited many men at Acre who have been deployed, but with the Crusade in the balance, the Mongol Hordes nearing the Holy Land, and a crisis point approaching, I ask that I be allowed to join the fray. It would shame me to leave the Crusade and the Kaiser to face the horsemen and Egyptians alone.

Thank you my lords.

[FactionHeir]

King Otto,

I shall send you with the reinforcement group to Emperor Henry's position the next year to reinforce our position against a possible Mongol invasion. Again, I will stress that we may not attack them until they show hostility or an edict or charater amendment is passed. Our forces in Outremer in combination with the crusade should be more than enough to eliminate any threat they pose however, as I have done most troop hiring in Outremer during my chancellorship to ensure its safety.

As for Sofia, I believe the troops that assaulted Zagreb originated from there and taking this citadel will stem any future invasions from Hungary on our eastern border. It is possible however that I shall use it in negotiations if necessary, although not necessarily with our Byzantine allies, as I have bought military access from them this year already.

[OverKnight]

Otto glances at some scrolls on his desk and shakes his head:

Thank you Chancellor, I should have paid closer attention to the diplomacy section of your report.

[AussieGiant]

A messenger arrives bearing the Steward of Austria's seal

My Lords, King Otto,

I write this while preparing for battle so things are getting a little tense.

The Venetian's have quite a tidy number of men holed up in Daruzzo, it's a regular hornets nest of merchants and their bodyguards holding each other todgers I must say.

Never the less there are Venetian heads to cut off and a few likely women to plunder after this little tango down south.

The elder von Mahren is a real peace of work. He's out there given the boy's a little bit of the "rah rah, how's your mother" speech.

Personally I had my Austria dog's blessed by the local priest and then followed it up with and fairly ball tearing speech about hunting them down in the afterlife if they had the temerity to die on me...it seemed to work. I could see the whites of their eyes after that section.

It was spoilt of course by some smart ass who had the gumption to laugh right after I'd finished. I restored the fear of god back in them by knocking the offender out cold with my fist and daring any other swinging dick on parade to make a noise.

Silence rained supreme after that little effort.

I must say gentlemen our troops are getting arrogant with all these victories. I'd recommend a healthy dose of hard core discipline to those of you suffering from arrogance in your units.

Anyway, must be off, von Mahrens' screaming at me about something...he seems rather tense I must say. It must be age...they all get edgy when they age.

I'll send word once I've ripped a few guts out and turned them into garters!!

Venetian's...christ when did merchants afford so many bloody soldiers!!

Ahhh, I almost forgot. King Otto, I concur with your assessment regarding our South Eastern border. My plan is to create two quality half stack's lead by myself and the other by the most promising von Mahren. I believe this will be able to defend the region with the assistance of garrison militia units bolstering our numbers when the enemy stops to fight.

[Stig]

A messenger enters the Diet, with a message from Thorn


Meine Herren
At the time of the writing of this message I will be marching my personal bodyguard and followers into Thorn. Yes, I would have rather led the attack myself, but Breslau needed a good defense, seeing the near Polish army.
And I can tell you gentlemen that from now on Thorn will be defended and held. It is obvious that I cannot stay there forever, however nice the city is, but already my father has constructed a watchtower to make sure that we can see the Ruski's coming.

I have been long away from the easy, simple and good life in Rome and the Diet, but I have some things to say:

First of all I wish to congratulate the newly appointed counts in the Outremer with their positions.

Secondly on Crete, it will be of interest to take it, but do we have men and nobles to spare for such a journey. The journey takes long, and both Bavaria and Austria seem undefended.

Lastly I feel I should agree with King Otto, the Reich is getting harder and harder to defend. Especially when seeing the Mongol in the Outremer. France is in the west, and going further with attacking it might sound good, but be adviced that we have a real threat in the East now, both Hungary, Poland and Rusland are there. Maybe Swabia wants to direct it's attention on the Danish held city of Antwerp. Then if we take the settlements of Halych and Krakow in the coming 20-40 years we will have seen the last of the Poles, as they will have been pushed back to the steppes.

Ansehelm,
Heir to the House of Franconia
Rightfull Count of Thorn

[Ituralde]

A thin noble of the House of Austria by the name of Dieter von Schüsselen raises from the Austrian benches to adress the Diet.

My Lords I have just received word from my master Duke Leopold about his successful landfall in the Levant. He should be approaching Damascus as we speak.

He wishes me to convey his congratulations to the appointed Counts of Outremere and I am to extend his gratitude towards King Otto von Kassel for appointing my master as a possible successor should anything unpleasant happen to his Majesty, which I don't hope.

He is saddened to hear of the loss of Zagreb but has every faith in the Bavarians under Lothar Steffen to remedy this situation.

[Kagemusha]

A blood soaked Teutonic Knight enters the diet.

"I bring a message from my Master Count Von Mahren."

"I have no words. All is ashes. Durazzo is ours and the Venetians defeated,but this is just shadows and dust. The worst what can happen to a father have happened to me. My eldest son Erhart Von Mahren found his destiny near the walls of Durazzo. Fighting like a lion he came to our rescue when our lines were faltering but he never had the chance to witness our victory,nor me to know my son. I have knighted Count Arnold for his bravery in the battlefield. Now it is time for me to leave the army and bury my son. The messenger has Erhards still bloody sword with him to give to Kaiser,for my son payed the ultimate prize giving his life in the service for the reich."

The Knight places the sword on Erhart´s empty chair and leaves.

[FactionHeir]

The empire mourns its young yet loyal follower. I would like to knight Ehrhart von Mahren posthumously for his valor in attempting to save the Austrian Household Army.

[Stig]

A young Prussian-looking noble enters the court

Herr Ansehelm mourns the death of his childhood friend Ehrhart. Once Ehrhart gets buried in the Von Mahren family crypt I will be there to pay my last respects.

[Dutch_guy]

Günther von Kastillien's messenger enters the Diet

My master offers his sympathy to the Von Mahren's, and is preparing to visit the burrial when it takes place. If there is anything else he can do, he'd be honoured to do it.

:balloon2:

[Cecil XIX]

A message arrives from the Austrian fortress of Ragusa.


It is with a heavy heart that I have received news of my dear brother's death. Since childhood I had looked up to him for his bravery and uprightness, and his death serves as a stark reminder of our own mortality. Now I pledge that I will do everything in my power to avenge my brother and honor his memory.

With Sorrow,
Sigismund von Mahren

[TinCow]

A message arrives from Lothar Steffen's small force near Zagreb.


Ehrhart von Mahren died as a true nobleman should, sword in hand and with countless enemy bodies at his feet. His life was short, but glorious. What grieves me most is that I shall now never have the opportunity to bear arms with this noble brother of the Reich.

My men will not mourn tonight or any other night. We shall celebrate instead. Celebrate the valor of one of the Empire's finest men. He is an example to us all. Courage in battle. Leadership from the front. Death before defeat. Ehrhart von Mahren will be remembered as a hero of the Empire and his name will be told to our children for generations to come!

[Stuperman]

A message arrives from Gerhard Steffen



This is most terrible news, One of the Riech's own falling in battle! There will be a day of mourning across all Bavarian lands to honour the young Von Merhan. May his eternal soul rest in StoVoKor ~;)

My Appoligies for not being able to attend the Diet in person, but I am afficked(sp) with the most dredful of illnesses, and am unable to make the short trip from My bed to the Diet.

[AussieGiant]

A clean an unarmored Arnold walks into the Diet with obvious pain. Fresh and vivid wounds can be seen on his arms and neck and there is substantial bruising to his face and head

Gentlemen,

I have left Jonas von Mahren to bury his eldest son at their family estate to the north. I can only say that what took place at the gates of Durazzo was something that will be spoken about through the ages.

As a victory it was Heroic and at the same time tragic. Ehrhart von Mahren was to be my second in Austria and would have lead the other half of the House Army with great distinction and courage. Sadly that will now never come to pass.

I have commissioned a statue of Ehrhart von Mahren to be erected in Vienna to honour his passing and to ensure the sacrifice he made for his adopted home is never forgotten.

I have decided that Durazzo will be kept for the time being but it is at the disposal of the Chancellor and should to be used in any negotiations on behalf of the Reich. If the Venetian's come to reclaim it then so be it. They can have it. A token militia garrison can be established to prevent rioting and all other units will be coming north to rest, rearm and replenish in Ragusa.

Once back in Ragusa I will select another von Mahren to accompany me and we will drive the remaining Hungarian army from Austrian lands.

With that Arnold turns and leaves the Diet with the ex Count of Venice and another Military adviser shadowing him

[gibsonsg91921]

A man enters - he is Ehrhart von Mahren's lawyer:

We all mourn the loss of my master Ehrhart von Mahren. He died nobly at Durazzo for Austria, tragically going at such a young age. It was his dying wishes that Austria should one day drive Venice off the globe and that his brother, Sigismund, should conquer Crete and be its count. Let us have a moment of silence at his passing.

[OverKnight]

Otto is visibly shaken by the news of the young knight's death.

It seems like only yesterday he and I were arguing in this very chamber. It is a cruel fate that takes someone from us so young, with much of his life yet to be written.

Still, he died in battle, defending his friends and family. His sacrifice helped his father achieve victory against the Venetians. Ehrhart is a hero of the Empire.

My condolences to the von Mahren family and to Austria, the boy will be missed.

[FactionHeir]

*A messenger brings a notice from the chancellor*

My noble lords.
It is with pride that I present you... Sofia.
This Hungarian stronghold is now officially part of the empire and the faithless Hungarian prince lies dead as do most of his subjects who came to reinforce the citadel in its defence. Further, I have hunt down several Hungarian regiments around the citadel to secure it but have chosen to release the prisoners in a show of good faith, that peace may be possible.
As I have chosen to sack the citadel to subdue the locals from rising up against us, I have managed to fund twice as many constructions as before.

Please find the collated casualties for both sides with this notice

https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/6531/0022nn3.jpg
https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4586/0023fd2.jpg
https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4333/0025on5.jpg
https://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7255/0026ef4.jpg


OOC Note: Even though Hans had an extra knight unit above the limit, in either battle, at least 1 knight unit was not utilized for combat.

[Northnovas]

A messenger arrives from the Austrian Household and addresses the speaker. They chat briefly and he unrolls a document and address the Diet floor..



Elector!, Greeting from the Count of Zagreb he wishes to express his gratitude to the young noble Sir Lothar Steffan for the liberation of Zagreb. This is truly joyous news. The Count gives the "key" to the city to Sir Steffan and his men. Rest and resupply and take what you need there is no expense for the work to rid those Hungarian foes. It is comforting to know the city is now save.
I also received the tragic news from Durazzo and I would also like to express my sympathy to the von Mahren and the death of the young Ehrhart. His valour will not be forgotten by the House of Austria.
Electors, the news from the Outremer is good. The Crusaders are almost at their goal . These Horse Lords from the East are different from any foe we have met. We are deploying new tatics and there numbers are many but we shall over come because we are doing the Lord's work in this barren land.
May God continue to bless the Reich and Kasier.

The messenger bows before the member and sits with the Austrian delegates.

[Stuperman]

Gerhard Steffen:

Congradulations My son on your most impressive victory, Clean up the hungarians in the area as you see fit. When you return home, we will discuss your Knighthood.

[Ituralde]

A scrawny man enters the Diet and steps up to the Podium to adress the Assembly:

Nobles of the Reich,

I am Gerhardt von Schenk and I am here to tell you how Duke Leopold of Austria died, fighting in the Crusade and defeating the heathens!

He launches into a detailed account of the battle against the Mongols

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1570022&postcount=86

Afterwards he leaves the Podium to advance to the Austrian benches. He had been carrying a bundle which he now takes into his hand and carefully unwraps a plain Imperial Great Sword.

Duke Arnold of Austria? This is the sword carried by your father, used by him in his many battles against the foes of our Empire. This is the sword that has shed the blood of Aradai the Wrathful, Khanzada Batudhun, and the Great Khan Jebuk of the Mongol Horde itself. It is now yours, may you honour it and its bearer until the day you die.

Placing the sword in his palms he kneels in front of Arnold and offers him the sword.

[Kagemusha]

Message from Jonas Von Mahren arrives in the Diet.


The word of Duke Leopolds death have reached me.Death in victory.A most worthy end for a Duke Of the Reich. It seems that death visits us regularly these days.Loss of a friend is always hard to bare. The old guard is almost gone,all that remains is the Kaiser. My condolences to Kaiser Henry for loosing a brother,To the new Duke of Austria for loosing a father and to Leopolds wife for loosing a husband.And to the Reich for loosing its best general. I raise a toast to you Leopold as you surely now watch us from heaven.

Count of Magdeburg, Jonas Von Mahren

[gibsonsg91921]

Message comes from Péter von Kastilien, Count of Breslau:


The news of Duke Leopold of Austria have reached my present abode in Prague. Alas for the Reich for losing its greatest general and for the House of Austria, bereft of two noble lords in glorious battle in so short a time. May Leopold rest forever in peace.

[OverKnight]

Gunther, after recieving a message rushes to the Diet floor:

My lords! Duke Leopold is avenged! The Mongols are destroyed!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1570528&postcount=226

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands, Dieter standing behind him

It seems these last years have been quite a handful, a hard time it has been, the mongrels,deaths...

Jobst shakes his head

I am truly shaken by the two deaths...

Erhart was fighting to regain our land. He died honourably,to the aid of his father. I have not meet young Erhart,but I am sure he was mighty.

Then we come to Leopold... these horse lords we face! Wearing hats of Chinese fabric Dieter informs me! The chinese to wield so willingly, but from evidence it seems these horse lords have made contact with the Chinese! With the recent stop of the flood of Chinese Traders, I fear Asia has fallen to a tide, a massive flood...

Duke Leopold, you died on a Crusade, from evidence you went out fighting bravely, fighting to claim Damacus, stopping a flood.

Good luck Duke Arnold.

Prinz Jobst sits, Dieter bows and sits

[AussieGiant]

Standing in silence Arnold takes some moments before speaking. At his side hangs the sword of his father. Behind him is Gerhardt von Schenk and an advisor.

My father was a proud and sometimes ruthless man.

As a son to Kaiser Heinrich, a brother to Kaiser Henry, a father to me and a leader to all, I will remember him as a true Knight of the Reich.

King Otto has avenged my father and I extend my personal thanks and that of all Austrian's both noble and low born.

Austria has taken two heavy blows in the space of a very short time, but I can assure there will be no weakness shown to any foe of the Reich.

The Hungarians will unfortunately feel the wrath of my loss and wonder why god has forsaken their country. I intend on expelling them from my borders and striking at the heart of their empire.

In the east Lord Zirn will continue upholding Austria presence and representation of our noble house.

Lords, gentlemen, Austria has a new Duke and I intend to ensure my father is proud of what is to be accomplished under my rule.

[Stuperman]

Gerhard Steffen:

Such a glorious Victory King Kassel comes to only the best commanders.

The emotional ride that the entire Diet is being put through is trying, the loss of the Young Von Mahren and Leopold the Mighty as his scribe put it pains all of the riech.

But the Destruction of the Horse Lords, and the Death of thier Khan is wonderous news indeed.

Several Kegs of ale are seen beingwheeled into the back of Diet

We now await news of the Crusade from Conrad Sailer, with a Bavarian such as he in command, success is assured, although I don't want to seem over confidant, With all the events of this past year I have made arrangements to have a Grand Feast Here in the Diet. With Ales form across the Riech, I await news from Outremer to put the pig on the spit.

It shall be a time of rememberance and Celebration!

[Kagemusha]

Message from Jonas Von Mahren.


My congratulations for King Otto for breaking down the horse lords.Im sure your victory will be remembered long after we are all gone. To other matters. I believe now that the threat of the horse lords have passed.We should start discussing the issue of Outremer in the Imperial Diet. My wiewpoint is that Outremer is getting way too much from our resources and we should normalize the forces in there into level that would mirror the levels of troops on the areas of the great houses of the Reich. After all we are Germans and as Germans we should stay, focusing too much to far away lands wont benefit us,when we should be building up the Reich so no other Empire could ever compare with us.

[econ21]

Henry: I rather fear that the Mongols have done your proposed "normalising" of our forces in Outremer for you, Jonas.

Outremer is not yet complete - we must take Damascus and Edessa to fulfill its constitution. However, then by that same constitution, we will switch to a purely defensive stance in the Levant. Nonetheless, I fear we will always require at least two field armies stationed there: one in the south, to guard Jerusalem from Egyptians coming from Gaza and Cairo; the other in the north, to hold off the Turks who are massing north of Adana.

[FactionHeir]

That is pretty much what I had planned as well. To decomission any forces that still lack combat experience and are not crucial to our mission there while keeping two armies at half-strength ready to be expanded when needed.

[Cecil XIX]

Duke Leopold was truly an excellent Duke, and his loss weakens the entire empire. But now that these Horse Lords are destroyed, perhaps we can finally get some peace in the east. I look forward to serving under Duke Arnold for the many decades to come.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

I think... this is the time where we stand and wait, we wait for the next part of our history unfold.

Recently I think we have had quite a problem with our cities rebelling, it is happening everywhere. SOme cities are fine, its citizens happy.

other cities have rebels actively and publicly denouncing our Great empire!

Enough I say, we either kill them or find the problems.
I suggest we send investigators and offcials to find the problems.

Jobst sits

[OverKnight]

Gunther reads a message from Otto von Kassel:


I congratulate Count Fredericus von Hamburg on the taking of Damascus. He, along with Conrad Salier and Karl Zirn, have seized the goal of the Second Crusade! My thanks to you all.

In recognition of Count Zirn's bravery in the assault, and in respect to the wishes of the departed Duke Leopold, I name him Crusader Count of Damascus. May he bring honor and glory to Austria and Outremer.

King Otto von Kassel

[Stig]

An exhausted Prussian looking man with a big moustache enters the Diet.

My lords, I carry a message from Thorn:

Meine Herren,

I'm sorry that I don't have had the time to send my condolences after the recent deads, but things are busy in Thorn.
I hope that this message will even reach you. Thorn is under siege and all I have are a handfull of knights. Now would we sally out I think we would gain victory, but something like that is dangerous as well.
I hope in future that we can strenghten Thorn with more men, and I'm planning on starting the building of better barracks when we have the money for it. So Thorn will be a thorn in the enemies eye.

Ansehelm,
Count of Thorn
Heir to Franconia
Currently awfully busy

[gibsonsg91921]

A message from Péter von Kastilien arrives:



What madness is this? The gift of Durazzo to an old man with a hideous hat in exchange for his friendship? My friend, nay, my brother, Ehrhart von Mahren died serving the Reich in the capture of that city. To give it away wantonly is folly. Previously I stood on the side our Chancellor Hans, but his actions have driven me away.

Péter von Kastilien
Count of Breslau

[FactionHeir]

Firstly, the city was not gifted to the papacy, it was part of a deal to grant us both an alliance to allow more security for the empire and at the same time military access to prevent our troop movement in Outremer from alienating the pope from the empire, leading to another Investiture controversy.

Secondly, Duke Arnold and Emperor Henry have encouraged me to use the city in negotiations as it was previously designated to be abandoned as it stretched our borders too far. Instead of abandoning it to our foes the Venetians for the taking, I have decided it to be transferred to the papacy to grant us a secure southern border, prevent Venetian aggression against Austria, as well as diplomatic success.

All these goals were fulfilled and Austria and the empire are much more secure with Durazzo in the pope's posession. I am sure Ehrhart would approve that his death has delivered more meaning, security, and prosperity for the empire, yes?

[gibsonsg91921]

Péter von Kastilien stomps into the Diet in person:

Is this complete, utter madness? Is the Reich possessed with a lunatic desire to appease an old man who sits on his "Holy" throne, accepting bribes from nations and demanding they "behave" or else he'll let God loose on you?

[FactionHeir]

I would ask you to show some respect towards our common faith in the halls of the diet, Count of Breslau.
If you were to read the history of our empire, you will see that the reason we are at war with most our neighbors and have abysmal relations with them is solely due to the word of the pope. As such, appeasing the pope also means improving relations with other Christians and sparing the lives of our own subjects, allowing more trade and prosperity.
Due to the influence of the pope, few dare to oppose him openly in fear of excommunication, and even if the sole purpose of diplomacy with the papacy was not to appease the pope, it was at least to secure our southern border. I am sure you would see this?

[gibsonsg91921]

I will show respect to Catholicism, but ne'er to the corrupt old man that sits around telling his subjects what to do. Ehrhart von Mahren was a brother to me, and to give up his most noble, ultimate sacrifice for "diplomatic gain" is to flout his memory. He is a hero of the Empire and rests in the annals of the Reich with Count der Stoltze, Kaiser Heinrich, Duke von Saxony, Count Mandorf, Duke Leopold and King Otto. We must always honor the memory of the young Count von Mahren and his feats at the gates of Durazzo!

[FactionHeir]

Well, then tell me. Did von Mahren die just to take Durazzo or did he die in service of the greater glory of the empire?

[gibsonsg91921]

He died in service of the Reich, a glorious death in battle it was. And I ask you, Chancellor Hans, is it the custom of the Reich to throw away its young nobles, friends, and sons piecemeal for the "good" of the Reich? Not only did young Ehrhart die, but hundreds of forgotten soldiers. They died for the Reich, to secure its influence in the Balkans. How can you say that his death brought the Empire glory, when you wantonly trade away his life for "diplomatic concession."

[FactionHeir]

Would you say that increasing the empire's security is not increasing its glory likewise? Would you consider an abandoned Durazzo, up for pickings to the Venetians instead honoring our dead? I tell you, if the Venetians had retaken the city instead of us giving it away to the papacy, that would have shamed the empire and our fallen. Giving it to the papacy, on the other hand, only brings the empire more security and creates a barrier through which the Venetians cannot pass.

So tell me, would you rather me let the city rot as was commanded and abandon it, gift it to the papacy, or give it to the papacy in exchange for their goodwill, security, AND the promise to tend to the graves of our dead?

[gibsonsg91921]

I would that Durazzo be fortified and held as our bulwark to the south, not waste it on some tyrant who sits delightfully on his throne in Jerusalem drinking his golden cup of Jee. It was a triumph of the Reich to deprive it from the Venetians, our mortal foes, and giving it away for "security" is foolish.

Kaiser Henry approved this, you say? Perhaps the House of Swabia in general is plagued. Do not forget it is the incursions of the SHA upon the God-fearing French's soil that lowers our reputation in the eyes of the Most Holy and Untouchable Despot.

[FactionHeir]

Not only did the Emperor but also the Austrian Duke approve it. Would the Duke of Austria not wish the best for his own house, considering Durazzo would have been assigned to it?
And since you were not present at Durazzo when I surveyed it, it was greatly dilapidated and unable to produce any troops for a long while after its populace was massacred. It would not have been a bulwark but a liability to hold it.

[gibsonsg91921]

I will remember these insults, Hans. Tell me this. Was it part of your supposed "master plan" from the start to take Durazzo and spend Imperial lives only to give it away again? I tell you, it is folly. Folly to waste our young men's lives and folly to bow to an unholy master.

[FactionHeir]

I believe the idea to take Durazzo was brought forward by Jonas von Mahren actually and with Austrian support. I would ask you to please inform yourself of the matters before throwing around wild assumptions.

[gibsonsg91921]

I doubt Jonas was pleased his son's sacrifice was ill-spent.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I fail to see how any good nobleman of the Reich would consider it a "master plan" to purposely throw fellow Imperial lives away. Obviously the Chancellor made a calculated decision and thusly decided that it would be more benefit to the Reich if Durazzo was given away. Since you, Peter, are so far the only one with any objection to this decision I figure that it is more a case of your heart in the wrong place than a diabolical plot by the Chancellor.

[Stig]

Another Prussian looking noblemen enters the Diet

My Lords, I bring a message from Count Thorn

Meine Herren,

I have routed two Polish armies in the last 2 weeks. The two knights that died in those battles have recieved Imperial honour during their burials.
I would like to propose the moving north of the Franconian Household Army, as I see a strong Russian army closing in on Thorn. And Thorn is not ready for it.
Furthermore I would like to tell my little brother and the honourable Hans to quit arguing. If the Pope excommunicates us again we'll take it back, no big trouble.

Ansehelm,
Count of Thorn
Heir to Franconia

OOC: I like the giving territories, Durazzo to the Pope, Sofia to the Byzantines and Paris to France (in exchange for peace).

[gibsonsg91921]

Péter looks sober and stricken:

The death of Ehrhart has affected my personally in a very profound way, Count Salier. I maintain my belief in the error of giving up conquest as well as bowing to the false idol of the Pope.

I must return to Franconia, the Russians are at our borders.

Péter bows and exits.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

I shall pray for your soul, Peter, for it is clear that you are doing no such thing currently.

[FactionHeir]

I shall hope then, that the battle against the Poles will ease your pain somewhat.

[gibsonsg91921]

A messenger from Péter von Kastilien reads aloud:


Lords, you must forgive my recent outbreak on the Diet floor. Ehrhart was like a brother to me, and we were very much akin to each other. He died gloriously for the Empire, and my main goal was to prevent the trade of Durazzo from diminishing his ultimate sacrifice. My views on the Pope as a supreme authority of the Catholic faith are another matter. I go now to battle the Poles and Russians - but first I must pray for my friend and calm my nerves.

Péter von Kastilien
Count of Breslau

[OverKnight]

Elsebeth von Kassel enters the Diet. She is dressed in mourning, clothed in a sombre black dress and with a black veil covering her features. Her bearing, despite the simplicity of her garments, remains regal. Lifting her veil, she addresses the Diet:

My Husband, King Otto von Kassel, has died at Acre. He requested that his earthly remains be buried at the battle site at Galilee, so that he could be at rest with his soldiers that fell there. Already Pilgrims have gathered at the large cemetery for the fallen there, and Otto. . .

Elsebeth pauses to compose herself.

. . .and Otto has taken his place among them. An order of Monks, with a donation from my own funds, has assumed responsibility for tending the graveyard and they have set up an Abbey on the shores of the Sea of Galilee. The artifacts that Otto rescued from Jerusalem were laid to rest with his body, which now has drawn even more Pilgrims to the area. What the Reich accomplished against the infidel Mongols will not be forgotten.

Otto also requested that even though his body would be laid to rest in Outremer, he wished his heart to be interred at Innsbruck. He defended Outremer, but could never leave Bavaria completely behind him. Once I depart Rome, I will ensure that this is done.

Otto wished to pass on his blessing to Gerhard Steffen as the Duke of Bavaria. He also wished that Kaiser Henry consider Conrad Salier as his replacement as King of Outremer. The Bavarians are closely linked to Outremer, Maximillian Mandorf planned the First Crusade, Otto was Chancellor during its completion and the first King of that land, and it would be fitting to have Count Salier follow him. It is, of course, my brother's decision.

Otto had one final message, "Do not forsake Outremer. Do not forget the sacrifices made there by the soldiers, priests and Generals of the Reich, Leopold at their fore. We are now the protectors of the Holy Land, consecrated in blood, do not abandon this blessed task."

My lords.

Elsebeth lowers her veil and walks out of the Diet. The youngest son of Duke Gerhard Steffen, after a word from his father, rises from the Bavarian delegation to escort her.

[Stig]

The Prussian looking noble stands

Herr Ansehelm has given me the right to speak freely in his case. And so I will do.
As you know we all mourn about the recent dead of Otto von Kassel. And it's a great wish that he wants to see something done with the Outremer. But once again there must be underlined that we shouldn't forget the Heimat.
Herr Ansehelm himself has beaten two Polish armies not long ago. A Russian army is at our border, next to that we have a Polish Army near Breslau and one ready to fight the Franconian Household Army.
Next to that we also have the Hungarians to worry about.
Ofcourse we want to do something in the Outremer, but once again it must be said:
Don't forget the Heimat!

[Cecil XIX]

Duke von Kassel will be sorely missed. That he was able to rise to such a level of honor and strength after being an accomplice to Emperor Heinrich is a true testament to his character. The Reich will be forever at a loss without his guidance.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Conrad Salier:

Otto von Kassel was a great Duke, King, and friend. It is an honor to have served with him and for him to consider me as his successor in Outremer.

[Warluster]

Prinz Jobst stands

King Otto was well and truly one of our more calm generals, we always had the situation under control. A great general, he was one of the Reich's most honorable and amazing men, you shall be missed King Otto.

Clearly, the old generation is fading away...

Prinz Jobst sits

[Kagemusha]

Message from Jonas Von Mahren


Another great one is gone. Loosing of King Von Kassel is hard blow to the reich. He should be always remembered as the man who retrieved our relationship with the holy father with his sharp and clever politics. Also a great general and first King of Outremer. My condolences for the friends and family becouse of his departure.

[Dutch_guy]

A Franconian messenger enters the Diet.



It seems we're losing good men at a high rate indeed, von Kassel will be missed by us all. Just like Ehrhart will, he was too young to leave this world - but at least he did so honourably.

Yours sincerely,

Duke Kastillien.

:balloon2:

[McIwoo]

A Bavarian messenger enters the Diet.



To my dear Father and the to the Most Noble Members of the Imperial Diet,

I feel it is my duty to warn you about the unrest plaguing the civic order in northern Italy. It has come to my attention during my stay in this region that three cities in particular: Bologna, Marseille and Florence suffer from a generalized lack of patriotism. Several other areas I found to be also agitated, these include Milan, Venice and Geneoa.

If this situation was to be left alone, I fear the level of agitation would require a strong answer from the Empire, armed repression and potentially even military action. However, before reaching this dire level, the current situation could potentially represent a risk for the economical well being and growth of the region. I insist on this last point as northern Italy is of such a vital importance to the maintenance of our troops stationed in the Holy Land.

In the next few months I will apply myself to find potential solutions to these issues.

For Bavaria and the Empire,

Markus Steffen
Count of Marseille

[OverKnight]

Matthias Steffen enters the Diet and speaks:

This is a farce! My brother was sent into battle, on Austrian lands no less, with a mere unit of Teutons and his own retainers! Where was the Austrian Household Army, or the rest of his Army that he had at Zagreb? And if he is a "provisional" Knight, why wasn't his force enlarged since he left Zagreb, or at least Mercenaries hired to assist him? Not to mention the sheer cowardice of the Budapest garrison. Their commander should be stripped of rank and set to building watchtowers for such incompetence!

At least if we're going to send him into battle against such odds, we should give him the rank he deserves. Some of our men had been made Knights because they ran down some peasant who brandished his pitchfork in the wrong direction! End this joke of a not-quite-a-Knighthood!

Bavarian Honor demands it!

Matthias sits down in the Bavarian section with his arms crossed and a scowl on his face.

[FactionHeir]

You may be unaware, but supplies of horse and food were only enough to send his retainers and either the teutons or the mailed knights against the Hungarians besieging Budapest in time.
I chose to send with him the teutons, knowing they are our most elite knights.

It seems young Lothar has done well in the battle and finally proved his worth.
I am sure his father would like to have the honor of knighting him formally once he is back in Italy. I for one now consider him a knight officially.

[Stig]

Message from Ansehelm, as read out in the Diet


What is this? Don't you have to be knighted anymore to command an army? What is this for wahnsinn?
Today an unknighted noble, what will come tomorrow? Heinrich und Karl the dung collectors?

And next to all this Swabia is still allowed to penetrate further and further into French territory, without an edict, without the approval of the Diet.

I think the honourable Hans should ask himself the question if he's up for the job of chancellor.

Ansehelm
Count of Thorn
Heir to Franconia
Extremely :daisy: off

[FactionHeir]

I believe the young Steward Ansehelm should be more careful in his judgement if he wishes to one day lead Franconia.

Firstly, Lothar Steffen did not lead an army but a small force as he cunningly derided from our charter. As there was no legal barrier that prevented him from doing so, it was approved.

Secondly, I ridicule your constant comments about Swabia's expansions as they have not advanced any further than Paris as we speak. Maybe you ought to look at our Imperial maps in the mornings when you may be more clear headed?

[Stig]

Another message from Thorn


Lothar Steffen might have led only a little army, he did have the overall command in the battle. Something which is normally only giving to an Army Commander.

And tell me which Edict allowed Swabia to march into France at all.

[FactionHeir]

Lothar Steffen did at no point command the garrison of Budapest, but only his entourage and the teutons, as layed out by the charter.
The charter amendment regarding household armies allows one settlement to be taken per order to be fulfilled if received prior to the start of the chancellorship or at the discretion of the chancellor if received thereafter.

[Stig]

The Prussian noble Ansehelm send stands, speaking in his place (OOC: just to get rid of the messages)

Now, even tho that order might be given we do widen our borders with it. Which is dangerous. Sides if we march too far into France I'm afraid we will get to close to Britain and Spain.

[FactionHeir]

Considering there has been no further expansion into French territory, I find Ansehelm von Kastiliens' to be unfounded.
It could similarly be argued that we would widen our borders if Krakow was taken. Each house, including Franconia, is being treated fairly currently in terms of construction, recruitment and fulfillment of orders, something the chancellor is not obliged to do, especially in the light of general opposition of Franconia towards my election at the last diet, something I would like to remind you of.