PDA

View Full Version : KotR King of the Romans OOC thread VII



Pages : [1] 2 3

econ21
06-09-2007, 21:16
This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.

The list of players and description of their avatars is maintained in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1



*************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

Game settings

*MT2TW with the 1.2 patch
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

Charter Amendment 6.2: Medifix will no longer be used and in its stead, FactionHeir's trait and ancillary fixes will be implemented. He will also take full responsibility of any issues regarding these files, however unlikely these may be after extensive testing.

The only mod we will use initially consists of the trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix124.rar

The readme is in the spoiler tags.


KOTRfixREADME.txt
-
START OF README
-
Version 1.24 (22-05-2007)


This package contains 2 folders and 6 files, one of which is the readme you are currently reading.
I have included folders as this will make it easier for you to figure where a file is to go and prevent errors.
As you can see, one folder is named "data" and another one inside this data folder is labelled "text"
To install the fixes, simply extract/move the data folder directly from the package into your root medieval directory.
This means that after doing so, you should find following files in your medieval/data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt

And a folder in your data folder named "text"
Inside that folder, you should find:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


You do not need to extract the readme, as this is purely informational for this installation only.

In short (for the impatient and to quick check):

-Extract data folder directly into medieval game directory.
-Make sure your medieval directory now has a data folder (already present before extracting) and a text folder within (usually not present before)
-Make sure the following files are found inside the data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt
-Make sure the following files are found inside the text folder:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


Now to apply those fixes, you will need to run your medieval game exe using a shortcut or a bat file.
The target of said file should read similar to this:

D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Where "D:\Medieval\" varies depending on your installation but medieval2.exe --io.file_first should be constant.

If you encounter any issues with my fixes, please let me know via any means you feel necessary and I will investigate.
As per current version, there are no errors showing up in the medieval error log that are from these fixes.

Also note that those fixes work retroactively in any savegame and at the same time also allow a savegame to continue working without the fixes installed.
As such, it is perfectly safe to use and will not necessitate its continued usage once a game is started.
However as per Charter Amendment 6.2 for the KOTR PBM, this fix is to be used by the chancellor currently running the game.

I hope you enjoy the fixes and if you have problems or suggestions, please let me know.

FactionHeir

-
END OF README
-




At a later stage, we may use a mod to give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints.

Charter Amendment CAE1.1: econ21 will be authorised to give AI factions extra florins; for example, by gifting them a lump sum every 10 turns or so.

To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol. Details in the spoil.

I plan to give 100000 gold to the AI each Diet (ie every 10 turns). The command for this is:

add_money hungary, 100000

The factions which will benefit initially are:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary

The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.



Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]

*Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:
In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.

1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.

1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 1: Amend 1.4 by adding: If no build queue is posted for a settlement, the Chancellor can build what he likes. The Chancellor may upgrade a settlement at any time (ie upgrade the walls regardless of a build queue), unless such an upgrade is forbidden in advance by the governor.

1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.

1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.

1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).


3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.
Charter Amendment 8.2: In addition to the Kaiser, an Emergency Session of the Diet may be called by the Prinz, or if three of the four House leaders (Dukes or Stewards) agree to do so.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +5 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 3 points):
Duke: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 2: Amend 4.7 by adding: If a Duke resigns, the Kaiser appoints a successor.

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose not to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

*Charter Amendment 9.1:

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward).

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.2, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain an additional +1 influence (over and above any influence for being a Count of a European settlement) but only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 5 influence for all but the Emperor remains.


8. Historical armies

Only historical armies can fight battles (ahistorical stacks can be used for transport).

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Revised maxima for each unit type by number of units in stack

3^Type|1-5|6-10|11-15|16+
7^Generals|2|2|2|2
7^Knights|2|4|6|8
7^Cavalry|2|4|6|8
7^Missile inf|2|3|4|6
7^Elite inf|2|3|4|6
7^Other foot|Any|Any|Any|Any
7^Artillery|1|2|3|4


Crusades are exempt from restrictions on the number of generals.

Unit type definitions:
- Knights: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights or equivalent heavy cavalry.
- Cavalry: Any mounted knights plus non-knightly cavalry (Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants, Turcomans etc)
-Foot missiles: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners etc
-Elite infantry: Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass
-Other foot: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia

Old rules in spoil.

The following rules apply for field armies of 15+ or more units.

Generals - max 2 units
Knights - cavalry or foot, max 8 units inc. generals

Total cavalry - maximum 8 units, inc mounted knights and generals

Artillery - maximum 2 units (5 in a siege - if caught in a field battle immediately withdraw excess of over two)
Foot missiles - maximum 6 units including artillery

Total elite heavy infantry - max 6

Other spears & feudal foot - unlimited

For armies of size 7-14, the above limits are halved.


Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

FactionHeir
06-09-2007, 22:11
Reposting for convenience:

Alright guys, I got 1 more battles coming up, first come first serve:
Total clock remaining from now: 21 hours

TinCow: Lothar Steffen+1 Teutonic regiment+Budapest garrison vs Hungarian army

Ignoramus: Ulrich Hümmel+Adana garrison vs Turks

Dutch_guy: Günther von Kastilien+FHA+Peter von Kastilien+2 peasant archer regiments vs Poles

Xdeathfire: Friedrich Scherer+SHA vs French army

Stig: Ansehelm von Kastilien+Thorn garrison vs Poles

Stig: Ansehelm von Kastilien vs Poles outside Thorn

Make sure you got fixes installed properly before fighting
First file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-2.rar [Currently in posession of Stig]

Second file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-3.zip [Currently in posession of Stig]

Third file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-4.zip [Currently in posession of Dutch_guy]

Fourth file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-4-fin.rar [Currently in posession of Xdeathfire]

Fifth file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-5.rar [Currently in posession of TinCow]

Sixth file: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-6.rar

GeneralHankerchief
06-09-2007, 23:06
Wait, were we always at war with the Turks?

gibsonsg91921
06-09-2007, 23:14
yeah

McIwoo
06-09-2007, 23:43
So here I come...Markus Steffen of the Imperial House of Bavaria newly appointed Count of Marseille by Steward Gerhard Steffen.

Is he my vater btw? I couldn't find that info in the library. Stuperman said he'd sent me a long intro on monday...I don't quit know what to answer IC atm.

Stig
06-09-2007, 23:50
If I were you I'd change to Matthias Steffen, he has more command and influence in the Diet

econ21
06-09-2007, 23:52
Is he my vater btw?

Welcome - yes, he's your father.

It's a good idea to get into the habit of periodically downloading savegames so you can see what's going on, where you avatar is and what traits he's picked up. Although the Chancellor makes most decisions, you should find them willing to listen to ideas you have for the deployment of your avatar.

OverKnight
06-09-2007, 23:58
I guess I'll take Matthias then (Sorry about swiping your namesake Stuperman :embarassed:).

econ21
06-10-2007, 00:03
Right, that's Bavaria sorted out then.

It's a real shame we lost Erhard van Mahren now, because Austria has no spares and we have to find a place for Ituralde. Franconia has a stack of spare avatars.

OverKnight
06-10-2007, 00:14
Hmmm, now I have to think of a way to make Matthias distinct from Otto.

Let's see, GH went from Rogue Kaiser to Religious Company Man.

TC went from Religious Fanatic to Callow Youth.

Kagemusha went from Old War Horse to Drunken Psychotic.

Econ, not to predict, will go from Paragon of Chivalry to a Profane Lady's Man.

All meant in jest. :laugh4:

Suggestions from the Peanut Gallery on how I should proceed?

Stig
06-10-2007, 00:14
Ituralde can switch house and hope the Siegfried becomes the prince
Or he can sit and wait

StoneCold
06-10-2007, 00:25
OK, but Otto played both side of the coin in the religious side of the battle.

Maybe start off with sibling rivalry with Lothar? Since both has that high command star, I would guess they are pretty competitve when young?


Econ, I don't think there was a spare in the 1st place for the Austrian, as Erhard was assigned to gibsonsg before he fought the battle. We have have to wait for one of the von Mahren gals to get married then, or killed off some of the spare Franconian avatars, that will probably provoke an outrage among the house Franconian. :D

McIwoo
06-10-2007, 00:47
yes I downloaded the last save and checked both Matthias and Markus before I picked. I thought it'd be better if I start with a less influent char since I don't have much experience of the game.

Nice to see so much activity. Will do my building queue and IC messages tomorrow evening.

OverKnight Old War Horse to Drunken Psychotic sounds good, care to take your elder brother on board for a bierstube/weinstube crawl?

OverKnight
06-10-2007, 00:55
Hey Bro,

Matthias is a "Sensible Drinker" and "Religiously Proper" so no wild parties.

However, "Aloof", "Swift to Judge", "Brave" and "Honest" could make for a lethal combination in the Diet. :laugh4:

Of course I think all the Sons of Steffen inherited "Feeling Poorly" from Dad. Probably from the near tropical, Witch filled enviroment we were raised in.

When did Markus become Count of Marseille? I missed that one.

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 00:59
Probably via PM or so.
You can cure yourself from Hypochondriac by staying in a settlement with church or building churches.

StoneCold
06-10-2007, 01:11
I think Lothar didn't get that trait.

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 01:14
He was born early enough to not get it (the traits are calculated 4 turns before coming of age)

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 11:07
Northnovas:

Races are more expensive than lowering taxes, so only advisable if you are aiming for horse breeders guild or low taxes still cause riot.

Northnovas
06-10-2007, 11:52
Northnovas:

Races are more expensive than lowering taxes, so only advisable if you are aiming for horse breeders guild or low taxes still cause riot.

I knew you would have an answer. I never read a proper explaination in the manual. I didn't know the txt script was so informative.
Whatever works to keep the populace happy.

Dutch_guy
06-10-2007, 12:43
Okay, battle fought and done, here's the latest save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-4-fin.rar

:balloon2:

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 13:24
Great, please send me a post battle screen too.

econ21
06-10-2007, 14:00
We now have the ability to train Forlorn Hope at Sofia. We did mention modding them to 2HPs at the beginning of the campaign, but looking at the unit stats, I have second thoughts. I think they will be too powerful. When we started the campaign, it was possible CA made an error - two patches in, it is obvious CA intended them to be as they are and perhaps with good reason. They are probably better left as a characterful, if not terribly cost-effective unit.

However, Factionheir suggests that we mod it so that Dismounted Gothic Knights are recruitable (in the vanilla game they are MP only). Looking at the stats and comparing them to zweihanders, they seem quite balanced. Better armour but higher upkeep and they will bite into our quota on knights. So I have no objection to modding them into the game. What building requirement do you suggest, Factionheir? Perhaps one tier higher than Zweihanders?

Does anyone have objections? Otherwise, I suggest we let factionheir update his mini-mod to make this change and start playing with it after the current batch of battles have been fought.

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 14:05
Folorn Hope are city units trained at a mayor's palace in Milan at the moment btw :D

Current (important) stats for Forlorn Hope:


soldier Forlorn_Hope, 24, 0, 1.2 (name, men, officer, mass)
attributes very_hardy
stat_health 1, 0 (hitpoints)
stat_pri 17, 6 (Attack, Charge)
stat_pri_armour 7, 5, 0, metal (Armour, Defence, Shield, Armour sound type)
stat_heat 5 (Exhaustion factor - higher = worse)
stat_mental 11, low, untrained (Morale, reliability to shock, level of training)
stat_cost 620 (training), 250 (upkeep)
armour_ug_levels 3, 4 (Starting armour, upgrade yes/no, how many)
armour_ug_models Forlorn_Hope, Forlorn_Hope_ug1
;unit_info 17, 0, 12 (Unit summary)


Stats for DGK:


soldier Dismounted_Gothic_Knights, 48, 0, 1.2 (name, men, officer, mass)
attributes hardy
stat_health 1, 0 (hitpoints)
stat_pri 14, 6 (Attack, Charge)
stat_pri_armour 10, 4, 0, metal (Armour, Defence, Shield, Armour sound type)
stat_heat 6 (Exhaustion factor - higher = worse)
stat_mental 9, normal, trained (Morale, reliability to shock, level of training)
stat_cost 810 (training), 225 (upkeep)
armour_ug_levels 6 (Starting armour, upgrade yes/no, how many)
armour_ug_models Dismounted_Gothic_Knights
;unit_info 14, 0, 14 (Unit summary)


Stats for Zweihänder (baseline)


soldier Zweihander, 48, 0, 1.2 (name, men, officer, mass)
attributes hardy
stat_health 1, 0 (hitpoints)
stat_pri 14, 6 (Attack, Charge)
stat_pri_armour 7, 4, 0, metal (Armour, Defence, Shield, Armour sound type)
stat_heat 5 (Exhaustion factor - higher = worse)
stat_mental 9, normal, trained (Morale, reliability to shock, level of training)
stat_cost 680 (training), 150 (upkeep)
armour_ug_levels 3, 4 (Starting armour, upgrade yes/no, how many)
armour_ug_models Zweihander, Zweihander_ug1
;unit_info 14, 0, 11 (Unit summary)


As you can see above, I listed the most vital unit stats for all three. Zweihander and DGK are there to compare Forlorn Hope with.

The most striking factors immediately are:
Forlorn Hope - 24 men (on small unit size)
DGK and ZH - 48 men

But regarding cost:
Forlorn Hope - 620, 250 -> 25.83 per man, 10.42 per man per turn
DGK - 810, 225 -> 16.88 per man, 4.68 per man per turn
ZH - 680, 150 -> 14.17 per man, 3.13 per man per turn

Of course unit attack/defence:
Forlorn Hope - 17 (6), 12 [13 with upgrade]
DGK - 14 (6), 14
ZH - 14 (6), 11 [12 with upgrade]

Other factors:
Forlorn Hope - City trained (Mayor's palace), very_hardy
DGK - Castle trained (Armoury), hardy, very slow (due to starting with advanced plate), exhausts quickly
ZH - Castle trained (Armoury), hardy

Overall, DGK are worse than ZH due to being slower, more expensive in both training and upkeep, and exhausting faster. The only edge they have over ZH are 2 more armour.
FH have 1 more armour than ZH and 3 more attack but are double as expensive to train and cost triple the upkeep per turn.
Thus in conclusion, if all 3 were hirable in their current state, ZH are the only units actually worth it. The other units would be both overpriced and much weaker in comparison. FH in particular also is very vulnerable to morale shocks and has a lower effective attack then DGK and ZH because they are untrained instead of trained.
If FH gained 2 hp instead of 1, they'd be approximately 50% more effective, because they still are only half the men and die just as easily to charges as a larger unit due to having the same mass. Then they'd actually be somewhat worth their cost, although personally I think they ought to get 0.2 added to mass to resist cav charges slightly better in addition and have a normal instead of low resistance to shock (charges, gunpowder, fire). They can stay untrained to reflect they are city troops and suicide squads.

For DGK vs ZH, I suppose the reason CA left them out is because they didn't actually balance that unit in context of late units yet. Its upkeep is much higher than any other late sword infantry (noble swords, armoured swords, ZH all have 150 upkeep) although they are on par with DNK and DEK in terms of upkeep (although DGK are about 280 more expensive to hire) That said, their attack value is very low compared to the polearm knights who have 21, so overall even if they could be built, in their current state there wouldn't be much of a point in building them except maybe roleplay value. To make them more ffective for their price, they would ideally get +3 armour and +5 attack, but since we do consider HRE to have slightly worse infantry than other factions, +2 armour and +2 attack would make them at least somewhat viable.

TevashSzat
06-10-2007, 14:15
I am fighting battle now.

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 14:36
Alright, noting you down

TevashSzat
06-10-2007, 15:40
I won the battle and it was a heroic victory with me having about 550 men left. Battle was a pretty hard one and in the middle, it seemed that I lost since my left flank was held by halberd militia and it routed, but the French general without any bodyguards literally ran into my mounted crossowmen and I salvaged the battle to win.

Also, I was thinking of going to take Caen next turn since it has a small garrison and I just beat a large French army.

I ended the turn to see what would happen and there was some troubling things. The Hungarians would assault Budapest and an autoresolve has us losing. Also, the English signed a peace treaty with the Danes which means we lost support in taking Antwerp.

Stig
06-10-2007, 15:50
Seriously don't take Caen
One, there's no edict for it.
Two, the French are more or less finished, let's keep this game fun with some enemies.

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 16:14
Well fought Xdeathfire. I was hoping you'd get a heroic victory with that force and a challenging battle :)

Budapest won't be taken by the Hungarians if TC attacks them as ordered. If he doesn't, chances are it could be lost.

I got a few regiments of cavalry coming your way from Staufen btw. Newly trained elites.

Dutch_guy
06-10-2007, 17:17
Browsing through the Mausoleum I only just noticed how many holy relics Otto von Kassel managed to acquire in his life - never had an avatar with so many in my games :book:

:balloon2:

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 17:56
Most of them just gave +1 piety though, so the more common ones.

TinCow
06-10-2007, 18:12
I will fight my battle and do some general Library maintenance today around late afternoon, early evening (EST).

gibsonsg91921
06-10-2007, 18:35
we should make relics like that heirlooms

geez
old generals never die - they go on crusade

FactionHeir
06-10-2007, 18:38
You calling my avatar old? :p

OverKnight
06-10-2007, 21:59
I had a plan afoot to pass on one of the relics, but Otto died before it could happen.

Two holy cups in the game would just confuse the issue anyway. . .actually it already had, for me at least. :laugh4:

GeneralHankerchief
06-10-2007, 22:02
FH did say that he managed to pass the Crown of Thorns along to me before you bought it.

(PM coming)

OverKnight
06-10-2007, 22:05
FH did say that he managed to pass the Crown of Thorns along to me before you bought it.


:furious3: I should be paying more attention.

Rewrite!

GeneralHankerchief
06-10-2007, 22:08
So I should hold off then or will you just insert it somewhere?

TinCow
06-10-2007, 23:11
Playing battle now.

TinCow
06-11-2007, 00:05
Done.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1232-6.rar

Having your entire allied AI army rout without doing much damage to the enemy is less then optimal when you only have 2 units of cavalry to control. Thank god for the overpowered TW charge.

GeneralHankerchief
06-11-2007, 00:07
Having your entire allied AI army rout without doing much damage to the enemy is less then optimal when you only have 2 units of cavalry to control. Thank god for the overpowered TW charge.

Can't wait to see how Lothar reacts to that little tidbit.

TinCow
06-11-2007, 00:08
Writing it up now, but it'll take a bit.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 00:11
You chose to keep the garrison under AI control?

StoneCold
06-11-2007, 00:14
Well, that is suppose to be the rule if you want to stick by the 6 unit army commander rule, right? If not the rule can be bypass easily by having lots of reinforcement that you still controls in tactical battle.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 00:22
Good point.

TinCow
06-11-2007, 01:21
It has nothing to do with the 6 unit limit. Captain led armies cannot be controlled by players, no matter what the circumstances.

StoneCold
06-11-2007, 01:24
oh. I didn't know that.

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 01:38
The coop story between myself and GH is up.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1572634&postcount=93

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 01:56
Great writing as usual from you two.
One thing that did throw me off though was when Salier left the room. The sentences before that kind of implied Otto died before Elsebeth could come back in or so. Not necessarily bad to surprise the reader though.

Since Salier is Count of Adana and Hümmel of Acre, figure you want me to switch their garrisons around?

StoneCold
06-11-2007, 01:59
I tot now Salier is King? So shouldn't he be based in Antioch but there isn't another bavarian avatar left in the Outremer right?

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 02:16
Otto certainly wants Conrad to succeed him, but even though the title is of a King, the position's more like a Viceroy or Governor-General situation. AFAIK the appointment of KO is up to the Kaiser.

I'll review the story FH, but that was just a last bit of Otto's black humor.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 02:38
You get to hope Henry appoints someone before Jobst is emperor :D

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 02:47
It's out of my hands now.

I can go back to being a scheming young landless noble. :evilgrin:

Edit: Very nice battle report TC, you certainly pulled that one out of the fire. I was unaware myself that we couldn't directly control captain led reinforcements. Pretty photos too.

Perhaps Lothar should wander the Reich with just 2 Cav units, serving as a one man wrecking crew. :laugh4:

StoneCold
06-11-2007, 10:01
McIwoo, I think in your bavarian post you meant Lothar and not Matthias right? I don't think Matthias is even involved in a battle yet.

Nice battle TC, I don't think I can even pull that off with RTW. Too bad with the reinforcement, if that is just a token reinforcement you could probably get a heroic victory there. :D

OK, maybe TC will get a seriously under appreciate trait.. :P

McIwoo
06-11-2007, 10:06
erm yeah StoneCold well spotted, I meant Lothar :dizzy2:

I don't seem to be able to edit though.

McIwoo
06-11-2007, 10:19
Wonderful battle report indeed TC (how do I edit?!?!)

Warluster
06-11-2007, 10:21
Junior Members can not edit until they're Members.

StoneCold
06-11-2007, 10:40
I think the threshold is 20 posts to become members.. so, just post 3 more posts anywhere? :P

OverKnight
06-11-2007, 10:43
I think it's a Moderator decision? There's no post threshhold, it's just a blanket decision for a bloc of junior members.

Don't worry you'll be a real boy soon McIwoo. :2thumbsup:

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 11:34
Well fought TC. Aren't you lucky the Magyars didn't field countless cavalry as they did against me in the old days but only foot? :D

econ21
06-11-2007, 11:38
It has nothing to do with the 6 unit limit. Captain led armies cannot be controlled by players, no matter what the circumstances.

I think the point about captains was about autoresolving, not putting armies under AI control. I did not consider the latter case when writing the PBM rules. I think all the Charter says on Captains is:


2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

My intention was that players fight battles manually if they are knighted and involved (Henry's Antioch battle had him reinforcing a captain). Otherwise it is an autoresolve.

We let Lothar fight a battle unknighted because his force was below army strength, which was a characterful work-around and was fine.

Personally, I think we should leave it up to the commander whether to put AI forces under AI command in a manual battle. In some battles, it is characterful. But there may be circumstances in which it would not make sense (the AI can do some very dumb things).

But we could decide this by a Charter Amendment if people want to pin it down.

In terms of Lothar, I am interpreting "provisionally knighted" as saying he can command armies (he's knighted) but that privilege can be taken away if he is naughty (it's provisional).

TinCow
06-11-2007, 12:01
Eh, no matter. Unless reinforcements are 1 or 2 units, I prefer for them to be under AI control anyway. It is more realistic and it makes the game harder.

StoneCold
06-11-2007, 12:04
Same here. I agree with econ on the interpretation of the 'provisionally knighted' term.

I guess FH was trying to prevent a auto-resolve in the battle of Budapest by sending in TC, if movement permitting the entire force available to TC, but in this case only the cav can make it in that turn. And also he was thinking the reinforcement will be under the command of TC and not the garrison commander. I don't think he was deliberately trying to kill off Lothar... :P

TinCow
06-11-2007, 13:42
Just got around to reading the last several stories. Great job to all, especially GH and Overknight. Now, where can I get my hands on some of that peculiarly powerful eastern tobacco?

Stuperman
06-11-2007, 15:14
Just got around to reading the last several stories. Great job to all, especially GH and Overknight. Now, where can I get my hands on some of that peculiarly powerful eastern tobacco?

I know a guy who knows a guy ~;)

Ituralde
06-11-2007, 18:01
Hey guys,

Nice to hear your concerns about my next avatar choice. I'm gonna wait a little more though, before I make my decision.
First, I want to tie up some loose ends, before I move on and Second I after my short trip to Hamburg, I will travel once more this week, although the occasion is once again a sad one for me. My other grandmother died last week, so I'm away at a funeral once more. Hopefully the last for this year!

Cheers!

Ituralde

Stuperman
06-11-2007, 18:09
Sorry to hear about your Grandmother Ituralde

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 18:23
My condolences Ituralde.

gibsonsg91921
06-11-2007, 19:47
sorry ituralde, i know how you feel.

@FH: first Peter now Ansehelm? lol

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 19:51
Well, I got no clue why Ansehelm suddenly started becoming Peter. Are you sure you guys don't got personality disorders? :p
Still, I suppose its right for Franconians to criticize Hans since they are the only house that didn't vote him.
I can tell you that Hans is seriously considering ending support for Franconia though, as he only just convinced himself to help that house at the start.

Stig
06-11-2007, 20:16
For Ansehelm you already ended support, by not making sure Thorn had a proper garrison. Mostlikely Thorn will be under siege next turn, so guess why he is pissed off.

Dutch_guy
06-11-2007, 20:20
I can tell you that Hans is seriously considering ending support for Franconia though, as he only just convinced himself to help that house at the start.

Is that because of my kids, or have I missed something ? :wink:

:balloon2:

Stig
06-11-2007, 20:23
Well till the siege of Thorn Ansehelm was more then happy with Hans. But now Thorn lacks a garrison and will come under siege (unless you decide to move the FHA in the path to Thorn). When the Russian treat is gone Ansehelm will be his normal self again, but he's a little stressed.



I like role-playing like this ~D

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 20:23
Hans has no problems with Günther really, just with his kids I guess.

Stig: Thorn had little people as garrison because I had to send Günther down south to prevent Peter from dying on his way to Thorn. Also note that it lacked a strong garrison for only 1 turn.

Stig
06-11-2007, 20:28
Stig: Thorn had little people as garrison because I had to send Günther down south to prevent Peter from dying on his way to Thorn. Also note that it lacked a strong garrison for only 1 turn.
I know, but now we lack the money to recruit, say 2 new units (unless we got some ransom, haven't checked) to strenghten the garrison.

Tho I must also say that would someone else have replied to Ansehelms rant he would have shouted at that person. Ansehelm seeks no fights with any German, he's far too loyal to the Reich for that.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 20:31
Money is scarce especially as I'm trying to prioritize building over recrutment so we don't waste money in between on lesser units.
While yes there is not enough money to hire more troops for Thorn, as I mentioned in the diet, I have a veteran army from Staufen heading to Thorn as reinforcements. Ansehelm does not seem to be impressed regardless, but then he doesn't know what its like to rule an empire eh? :p

Stig
06-11-2007, 20:59
If a bordercity has no garrison Ansehelm would find garrisoning it more important than anything else. Sides he thinks the army from Staufen (near Breslau now) is still too far away.

I'd send Ansehelm on some dangerous mission into Russia if I were you ~D , just to teach him a lesson.

Kagemusha
06-11-2007, 21:03
Hey guys,

Nice to hear your concerns about my next avatar choice. I'm gonna wait a little more though, before I make my decision.
First, I want to tie up some loose ends, before I move on and Second I after my short trip to Hamburg, I will travel once more this week, although the occasion is once again a sad one for me. My other grandmother died last week, so I'm away at a funeral once more. Hopefully the last for this year!

Cheers!

Ituralde

My condolences about your grandmother, Ituralde.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 21:16
If a bordercity has no garrison Ansehelm would find garrisoning it more important than anything else. Sides he thinks the army from Staufen (near Breslau now) is still too far away.

I'd send Ansehelm on some dangerous mission into Russia if I were you ~D , just to teach him a lesson.

I don't think the other nobles would agree and this might be the shortest term in history :D

McIwoo
06-11-2007, 21:17
sorry to hear that Ituralde, my condolences.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 21:45
Which Franconian is to command the FHA against the Russians outside Thorn? Ansehelm or Günther or Peter? (Is Peter knighted?)
Also, Kagemusha, do you want to fight the French near Prague this turn or the next, considering you don't want to return there?
Northnovas, do you want to relieve the Adana garrison from the Turks?

Stig
06-11-2007, 21:54
Peter should be knighted when DG says so, afterall he fought in a battle


Checking savefile to see if Ansehelm can be happy again

Kagemusha
06-11-2007, 21:56
Factionheir.You want me to attack that French ex- crusader full stack with my bodyguards unit?:sweatdrop: Thanks,but i would like to travel safely to Magdeburg please.From there i can move where ever the Duke of Franconia orders me.:yes:

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 21:59
Err of course not on your own. What made you think that?


Now where did I put those peasants

Stig
06-11-2007, 22:01
ermmm FH, I think it's best to leave the Russians and refit the FHA.

I'm under the impression there are no infantry units in that army.

Kagemusha
06-11-2007, 22:02
Err of course not on your own. What made you think that?


Now where did I put those peasants


Lol!:laugh4: I tend to like hard battles,but that one could be bit too hard for poor Jonas.If you give me a deacent army that has a chance to beat the French i can try.(I bet now i get two units of peasants.:clown: )

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 22:09
Heh, maybe 3. :grin:

But seriously, I got 2 trained templar units nearby and I think the reinforcements I wanted to send to Franconia are also closeby. Further, Hans Plittersdorf should be able to take out the general of that army and you get ample spears from Prague.

[edit]

I haven't checked out the Russian composition yet, but will let you know once I do. Waiting for econ to fight a really easy battle at the moment and hoping he didn't go offline for the night.

Stig
06-11-2007, 22:44
I haven't checked out the Russian composition yet, but will let you know once I do. Waiting for econ to fight a really easy battle at the moment and hoping he didn't go offline for the night.
I have ~D
No infantry as I said, only horsies

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 22:50
Sounds fun. That means they will attack you even if you are attacker.

Northnovas
06-11-2007, 22:55
Northnovas, do you want to relieve the Adana garrison from the Turks?

Is that an option or a need? The reason I ask would like to get my feet wet but have 36 hrs before I go on my first official vacation of the year. This means the only data that will be read is what is on my car CD.
Ituralde was willing to cover but will be away the same time as me and I would not want to auto resolve an offensive battle.
If I remain where I am and the only avatar in Damascus then I would hope that GH could control the battle to defend the city of the Outremer if the need should arise. Though it looks calm at the moment.
You know the grand strategy, if it's an option I will stay put, a need lets make it happen in the time allotted.:juggle2:

GeneralHankerchief
06-11-2007, 22:58
Is that an option or a need? The reason I ask would like to get my feet wet but have 36 hrs before I go on my first official vacation of the year. This means the only data that will be read is what is on my car CD.
Ituralde was willing to cover but will be away the same time as me and I would not want to auto resolve an offensive battle.
If I remain where I am and the only avatar in Damascus then I would hope that GH could control the battle to defend the city of the Outremer if the need should arise. Though it looks calm at the moment.
You know the grand strategy, if it's an option I will stay put, a need lets make it happen in the time allotted.:juggle2:

Things are kind of tight for me at the moment. I can fight on Wednesday or Thursday but after that things get dicey and about a week from now I go on vacation for a few days.

After that things will get back to normal for me.

Also, is FLYdude still around the city? We can still use him I believe.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 23:00
If econ is fighting his battle tonight still, I can hook you up with it immediately after.

Its not really a need, more an option. Only problem is that if Ignoramus remains unresponsive and turns pass, the Turks might actually end up taking the citadel.

econ21
06-11-2007, 23:18
Fighting the battle now.

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 23:22
I thought you were an hour ago :p

Hope you will see beyond the bridge's dangers btw. I was daunting to look at at first, but not that bad :)

gibsonsg91921
06-11-2007, 23:53
dont knight me yet, ooc wait for me to get my game to work - im gonna run the unpacker tonite i think

FactionHeir
06-11-2007, 23:59
Ummm don't use the unpacker unless you plan on making mods of your own. For general gameplay, its better not to unpack.

econ21
06-11-2007, 23:59
Here's the save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1234-1.zip

Not sure it's worth a battle report, but here's the after battle screen shot (3:1 odds):

https://img530.imageshack.us/img530/4313/knifefightfn7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Never bring a knife to a gunfight.

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 00:02
I think when I fought it, I had some 150 casualties and killed all but 34 of them. Just rushed Henry and the Teutons straight in, after a while added the other cav and heavy inf/spears. Left missiles behind.

econ21
06-12-2007, 00:27
Emperor's don't rush any where.

The contrast reminds me of a lewd quote from the police movie Colours. Robert Duvall's old timer is talking to his new partner:


There's two bulls standing on top of a mountain. The younger one says to the older one: "Hey pop, let's say we run down there and :daisy: one of them cows". The older one says: "No son. Lets walk down and :daisy: 'em all".

Elberhard would be proud of that one.

https://img240.imageshack.us/img240/2339/knifefight1ey4.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Walking down the mountain.

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 00:37
Hehe well done with that battle. When I got the save, I wondered how come you still had most your army intact. Then I saw your screen and understood :p
I did that in my last SP campaign as Egypt where I had mamluks standing on the bridge peppering the Danes.

AussieGiant
06-12-2007, 01:13
hey guy's!

I've got some free time finally. I'm heading off to Ottawa tomorrow and will be online for the night.

Things are going along nicely I see.

Pitty I missed the whole carry on about Durazzo. Arnold sure would have weighed in on that one, but things seemed to have died down about the topic.

There is a hell of a lot to read if you've been away even for only 3 or 4 days!!

FH is Arnold actually doing anything? :)

I get the impression he is swaning about chasing his tail :)

AussieGiant
06-12-2007, 01:15
hey TC, a question.

On that huge battle with the Mongols with Otto, what were your frame rates?

It looks very nice and the settings seem nice and high.

I'm a little curious that's all.

GeneralHankerchief
06-12-2007, 01:16
Emperor's don't rush any where.

Speaking of which, when will Outremer's next king be named?

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 01:27
AG: the AHA is now near Budapest but there are currently no Hungarians in our lands after Lothar beat them at Budapest and I rid them from Sofia.

Speaking of which, I now got a famous battle marker for my battle just now.
1 GB, 1 Feudal, 1 Armoured Sgt, 1 Pavise Crossbow vs 1 dmt Chiv, 8 dmt Feudal.
And Hans is now known as "Hans the Mighty" :2thumbsup:

econ21
06-12-2007, 01:30
Speaking of which, when will Outremer's next king be named?

The Emperor names a new King (could be a re-appointment of an existing one) during each Diet session, with enough time to allow the King to appoint his crusader counts before the voting period (where they will get +1 bonus influence).

I don't think the rules covered the King dying between sessions, but I understood Otto had named Salier as his successor. Henry is cool with that, so your correct form of address henceforth is King Salier. :bow:

Ignoramus
06-12-2007, 01:33
Sorry for my inactivity of late; I had some friends down for the long weekend and I didn't have a chance to fight th battle. I can do it today.

Oh, and what is the latest KOTRfix?

AussieGiant
06-12-2007, 01:35
hey FH,

God so TC has gone and done all the work for me!! Hells teeth.

I need to get Sig von Marhen knighted...is there someone I can crush?

Is the AHA back up to full strength at least?

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 01:36
1.25a is the latest KOTRfix. Get it from my signature.

I just finished 1234 but haven't pressed end turn yet, so once its uploaded, feel free to fight your battle :)

AHA is up to full strength and you could fight some Hungarians near Bran since I need watchtowers there anyway

TinCow
06-12-2007, 02:34
Yes, Lothar would like to return to Bavaria as well.

gibsonsg91921
06-12-2007, 02:46
Ummm don't use the unpacker unless you plan on making mods of your own. For general gameplay, its better not to unpack.
im just unpacking so i can overwrite the modded files so i can see if the switch works without mods

Northnovas
06-12-2007, 03:42
Sorry for my inactivity of late; I had some friends down for the long weekend and I didn't have a chance to fight th battle. I can do it today.

Oh, and what is the latest KOTRfix?

If there is a battle and Ulrich needs assistance with clean up I saw three small stacks of Turks send me that way. I can have a battle and return back to Damascus. I am good available to fight upto 0400 hrs your time Wednesday morning.

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 10:55
Considering Ignoramus still hasn't fought his battle, feel free to attack with Karl Zirn whenever you wish.
Save is kotr1234-2.rar

OverKnight
06-12-2007, 11:06
Reviewing the history, I noticed that from the Mongol attack on Henry to their destruction took just one turn.

So Mongols declare war on us followed by near instantaneous Mongol death. Not bad. :2thumbsup:

Ignoramus
06-12-2007, 11:06
Wait, I am about to fight it. I have had to wait until my brother had finished doing something on his computer.

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 11:14
Reviewing the history, I noticed that from the Mongol attack on Henry to their destruction took just one turn.

So Mongols declare war on us followed by near instantaneous Mongol death. Not bad. :2thumbsup:

With all that preparation, I wouldn't have expected us to loose :grin:

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 11:17
Ignoramus: Empty your inbox.... (actually, empty your sentbox might be better)

What I wanted to say is, that after you sally and got enough MP, take out the Turks roaming north of Adana if you can.

Ignoramus
06-12-2007, 11:34
Will do.

econ21
06-12-2007, 11:43
With all that preparation, I wouldn't have expected us to loose.

I was totally surprised by the speed of the crusade on Damascus. I was not keeping up with the savegames, but assumed Henry and Otto would have had to cope with the Mongols alone for a bit. But Leopold was in a hurry to meet his date with destiny...

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 12:05
There was an edict to fulfill that read "as fast as possible". Well, that was as fast it could be :grin:

Ignoramus
06-12-2007, 12:15
I have a problem: I can't get the patch until tomorrow. If you're willing to wait 16 - 18 hours I could fight the battle tomorrow.

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 12:19
Alright I suppose...

Stuperman
06-12-2007, 13:49
why arn't we allowed to attack the milanese? we were blockading one of thier ports?

That Blasted Pope!!!

econ21
06-12-2007, 13:52
I don't know if this was the case here, but I found naval attacks and minor little battles (with the Poles in my case) chalked up negative points with the Pope for little gain. In the end I decided it was better to save up the violations for significant attacks and let the little fish go.

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 13:58
Been sinking their fleets that transported troops.
Not a big deal though since it isn't an excomm warning.

OverKnight
06-12-2007, 14:03
Our good Pope is ungrateful, we got him elevated at such an early age, and now the power's gone to his head.

Being 34 (?), we should be extremely careful about pissing him off, his animosity will last a long time. Certainly a good reason for electing older popes.

At the end of my Chancellorship, I attacked a small French fleet, and that triggered a papal warning. I tend to agree with econ's philsophy after learning my lesson.

Sometimes, not often, I miss being excommunicated. Perhaps the Reich should become Orthodox Christian. :laugh4:

Kagemusha
06-12-2007, 14:19
Factionheir.Do you have the army ready to take on the ex crusader French stack.I could fight them anytime starting now.:smash:

Stuperman
06-12-2007, 14:26
There's always the BHA, I'd like to get my other two sons bloodied.

Kagemusha
06-12-2007, 14:28
There's always the BHA, I'd like to get my other two sons bloodied.

If you want the French they are all yours.:yes: My character is going to Franconia anyway and i could take a route around the French army.

Stuperman
06-12-2007, 14:37
Well, us bavarians would be half way to Corsica if it wasn't for the pope :wall:

where exactly is the french stack?

Kagemusha
06-12-2007, 14:38
I just checked and they are little West from Prague.

Stuperman
06-12-2007, 14:42
hhhmmmm, well if we can catch them

If they head west or south the BHA can take them.

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 14:49
The headed north towards Prague from Vienna and the BHA is already back in Italy.
I was hoping Kagemusha could reach them this turn, but noticed he didn't have enough MP, so it won't be till next year. I have moved all forces available into Prague though, so that should allow us to strike at them next turn with a large force. Jonas is still in Vienna as I don't want to send him alone somewhere near Prague where he can get hit by the stack without reinforcements.
Its possible they will head west towards Nuremburg and besiege that, but then we'd still reach them next turn (although maybe not with Kagemusha in command but an unassigned avatar...) or the turn after with Kagemusha.
I suppose I'll have a look how far I can move individual armies. Maybe I can get em to attack Kagemusha near Prague.

Stig
06-12-2007, 14:55
Or maybe they are on their road back to France, which I suspect.


I suspect them to target Paris, let Kage shadow them, and let the SHA prepare a trap

econ21
06-12-2007, 15:08
This kind of discussion would be good in character in the Diet - eager nobles straining for the glory; debates over strategy etc.

Stuperman
06-12-2007, 15:15
I suspect them to target Paris, let Kage shadow them, and let the SHA prepare a trap


I like the way this man thinks.

gibsonsg91921
06-12-2007, 17:33
This kind of discussion would be good in character in the Diet - eager nobles straining for the glory; debates over strategy etc.

i like the way this man thinks.

ps everyone hates Franconia nowadays lol. is it because we strive to end injustice?

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 17:39
ps everyone hates Franconia nowadays lol. is it because we strive to end imaginary injustice?

There, much better :grin:


Unless of course you find it unjust that the chancellor your house didn't vote for is actually doing stuff for Franconia. So unfair. He's supposed to leave us alone! :tongue:

Kagemusha
06-12-2007, 18:36
i like the way this man thinks.

ps everyone hates Franconia nowadays lol. is it because we strive to end injustice?

Its becouse we are so damned good looking.:holiday:

gibsonsg91921
06-12-2007, 23:13
thats gotta be it. look at peter! so hot.

and hans, when i was ehrhart i voted for u lol

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 23:14
I did say Franconians, not calling individual names. When you were Ehrhart, you were Austrian :p

Stig
06-12-2007, 23:19
Aye, the entire Franconian house voted Ignoramus

gibsonsg91921
06-12-2007, 23:19
yeah ik. i inherited my troubles, just like jimmy carter

FactionHeir
06-12-2007, 23:23
You can change :D

gibsonsg91921
06-12-2007, 23:29
cmon, we're the best diet controversy/activity starters

GeneralHankerchief
06-12-2007, 23:32
cmon, we're the best diet controversy/activity starters

Get us excomminicated via a loophole in the Charter under a pro-Papal Chancellor and we'll talk. :wink:

gibsonsg91921
06-12-2007, 23:33
i mean as of late, heinrich *cough* i mean conrad

edit - loopholes are harder to find now - theyve all been found and amended

edit2 - heres a potential loophole
"4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke."

not really much difference if that one was attacked cuz stewards are just dukes without the title. back before amendments made stewards just plain dukes without the title, that would have been a good one, but not anymore.

TinCow
06-12-2007, 23:44
edit - loopholes are harder to find now - theyve all been found and amended

:laugh4:

Give me a topic and I'll find a loophole that will allow it. It's all in the interpretation.

TinCow
06-13-2007, 00:00
Some men Crusade for God. Some men Crusade for Glory. Others do it for excellent bud at low, low prices.
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/pipe.jpg

StoneCold
06-13-2007, 00:06
hmm... gibsonsg, I think Otto and Detrich has already confirm their stewards respectively has the Duke of their house. Probably just left out in the update.

GeneralHankerchief
06-13-2007, 00:14
Some men Crusade for God. Some men Crusade for Glory. Others do it for excellent bud at low, low prices.
https://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/TinCow/pipe.jpg

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

Again, Lothar is always welcome to join the party.

FactionHeir
06-13-2007, 00:18
Considering TC is our resident lawyer, he'll find any loophole he wants to find. Lothar leading a 5 man army anyone? :grin:

And no, I don't think we'll get excommunicated this term. Unless someone wants his own avatar to do something silly.

TinCow
06-13-2007, 00:20
5 man? Bloody hell, it gets smaller every time!

FactionHeir
06-13-2007, 00:24
5 men and your bodyguard. I counted them together as "Lothar" (5+1 = 6)
Err men = regiments of course

gibsonsg91921
06-13-2007, 00:36
hmm... gibsonsg, I think Otto and Detrich has already confirm their stewards respectively has the Duke of their house. Probably just left out in the update.
yeah ik i was merely proving that the number of loopholes is not as many as it once was

edit - i love diet arguments, and this time im not alone in the arguing
now i've repudiated the chancellor, the emperor, both kings of outremer, and ive ridiculed the entire house of swabia
o and dont forget the pope and god too lol
maybe it aint my place as the count of breslau, but im gonna make my voice heard!

TinCow
06-13-2007, 15:17
edit - i love diet arguments, and this time im not alone in the arguing

Arguments and personal insults are an essential part of politics. The Diet gets closer and closer to the House of Commons every day! :laugh4:


William Gladstone - "I predict sir, that you will die either by hanging or of some vile disease."
Benjamin Disraeli - "That all depends sir, upon whether I embrace your principles or your mistress."

Some great ones here too: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4511352.stm

And we must not leave out our Canadian friends:
http://www.lufa.ca/news/news_item.asp?NewsID=4781

GeneralHankerchief
06-13-2007, 15:43
OverKnight, for Elsebeth being a wretch you seem entirely too attracted to her. :laugh4:

-edit- I think you need to change the year that the story took place in.

gibsonsg91921
06-13-2007, 15:54
how old is elsebeth? geez

and GH - watch how i use the law to own you

McIwoo
06-13-2007, 16:27
OverKnight, for Elsebeth being a wretch you seem entirely too attracted to her. :laugh4:

I still dun get how a wretch can know so much about politics :dizzy2:

I guess too much alcohol didn't help markus either...damn father! :clown:

FactionHeir
06-13-2007, 19:36
Ignoramus or Northnovas have 3 more hours to fight, upload and report on the battle of Adana before I'll end turn. If Adana is attacked by the Turks during the end of turn, it will be autoresolved as the game cannot keep waiting.

GeneralHankerchief
06-13-2007, 20:20
I'm available to fight NorthNovas' battle (for once).

FactionHeir
06-13-2007, 20:39
I suppose if there is nothing barring you from taking over, go ahead and use either Karl Zirn or Ulrich Hümmel to break the siege of Adana.

GeneralHankerchief
06-13-2007, 20:40
I'll only fight it if Conrad has enough movement points - it's not right otherwise.

Checking on movement points now...

-edit- Ah, crap. Didn't realize how far away Damascus was. Oh well.

econ21
06-13-2007, 20:48
As it is just a siege, we can leave it for another turn.

In view of the present delay, I would recommend letting Northnovas fight it next - AFAIK, he's never fought a battle before and volunteered for this, but was put on hold when Ignoramus said he'd fight it.

I think there will be a lot of minor action against the Turks around Adana in future - it might be a good idea to appoint a garrison commander who can turn around savegames quickly. FLYdude is very reliable, but maybe others in the area will prove to be too.

FactionHeir
06-13-2007, 21:19
I'll continue once I put the finishing touches on my thesis. (and cut some 1000 words...)

Stuperman
06-13-2007, 21:33
congrats on 2k posts FH

just so I have this right, Hans won't be sending the BHA to Corsica/Sardinia for 'logistical' reasons?

it can get a bit confused between the idle threats, viled insults, and outright arguements.

FactionHeir
06-13-2007, 21:49
Thanks.

I still don't know if it will be possible to send a large enough force during my term to the islands. Half of it is on its way to retraining and generally speaking, unless you want your full BHA ready for invasion, you could get to lay siege this term still, but not assault.

In any case, I might condone a landing, but not an assault until Milan is excommunicated or the papal bull expires. As for excommunication, you do have an IC letter from me.

AussieGiant
06-13-2007, 22:54
FH,

I'm not able to see the game as I'm overseas. Is Arnold actually doing anything??

I need to kills something and quickly. Can't I go hunting French tail or are they too far away?

There has to be something for me to do or I'm going to have to just create some more action in the Diet as he's going to get bored with all this Dukey crap.

gibsonsg91921
06-13-2007, 23:57
ur still young - a franconianesque or TCesque rant could still be considered just getting out of ur teens or since ur a duke - righteous indignation!

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 00:01
I am currently hoping to send you towards Bran to build some towers and engage the odd Hungarians knight stack or two.

And as a note, while I'm still working on writing an abstract now, the save game is now off limits for battles.

TinCow
06-14-2007, 00:07
Since the topic of the French Crusade has come up so often lately, I figured it would be worth pointing out that there is only one armed force anywhere near them: the garrison of Prague which includes some good quality non-militia troops and two of the von Kastilien brothers (neither of which is possessed by a player, I think, so not really an option). Other than that, the next closest army is the AHA. The BHA isn't even a single force and is clearly in the process of being retrained/rebuilt. It's unlikely that the French will even hang around in Bavarian territory, since they seem to be marching consistently west towards their borders. The AHA might have a chance to catch them, but Arnold would probably end up all the way in Swabia by the time that happened, which would cause problems for Austrian defense. So, by my OOC estimation, for all practical purposes, the only ones that can do anything about the French army are the Swabians, who could deal with it when it crosses into their territory.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 00:39
My intention is to have Kagemusha deal with them as he's the closest and I arranged for all those troops to make a stop at Prague.
Unlikely they'll be aiming for France, more likely an undefended settlement.
I'm also still wondering what to do with Jobst. He's standing idle next to the English for about 2 turns now... might just send him towards it.

TinCow
06-14-2007, 00:43
I think part of the problem with Jobst is that his army is too big. The French won't attack the English because our reinforcements will come in, giving them really bad odds. The AI only attacks when it thinks it can win (presumably with some margin of randomly generated error) and having a huge force makes them stay away. At least, that's my experience in SP games when trying to arrange 'ally' battles.

Ignoramus
06-14-2007, 01:08
Can econ fight my battle? Medieval 2 is playing up with me at the moment.

econ21
06-14-2007, 01:20
Can econ fight my battle? Medieval 2 is playing up with me at the moment.

I think Northnovas's avatar is approaching Adana and should be able to lead the battle.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 01:21
Northnovas is away for the week though.
100 more words for my abstract to go. Will end turn then.
Anyone interested in proofreading some 8k words btw? :D

GeneralHankerchief
06-14-2007, 01:22
Worse comes to worst, drag Conrad out of Damascus and have him lead the forces in 1236. I should be able to play tomorrow for a little while.

(if any battles are fought in between turns it might get a little dicey though)

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 02:00
Conrad is needed to keep PO in Damascus though. In a way, Karl would be suited for that too, but he has less chiv (although also less piety, so less religious unrest)

GeneralHankerchief
06-14-2007, 03:41
econ, do you mind if I set up a separate House thread for Outremer? I figure the Council of Crusaders is for Crusading purposes only and the East could use a day-to-day maintenance thread. Thanks.

TinCow
06-14-2007, 03:53
Conrad is needed to keep PO in Damascus though. In a way, Karl would be suited for that too, but he has less chiv (although also less piety, so less religious unrest)

A local rebellion might make for some interesting events and debate. I almost wish the plague was getting more 'publicity.'

OverKnight
06-14-2007, 04:51
OverKnight, for Elsebeth being a wretch you seem entirely too attracted to her. :laugh4:

-edit- I think you need to change the year that the story took place in.

As I've done since Elsebeth was introduced, I've interpreted "wretched wife" in unconventional ways, a strained marriage or a Machiavellian wife.

Also, I'm using Elsebeth as a bridge between Otto and Matthias. This will help explain why some of Otto's values seem to be making an appearance in Matthias. (OOC: It's insurance in case I'm not of a good enough RPer to make the two distinct.)

Why do I need to change the year?


how old is elsebeth? geez

38. She was quite young when she married Otto. Actually, the age difference between her and Matthias is almost exactly the same as between her and Otto, only reversed. It was one of the parallels that lead me write to write the bit.


I still dun get how a wretch can know so much about politics

She's the daughter of Kaiser Heinrich and sister to Kaiser Henry, raised in the Imperial court, nuf ced.

StoneCold
06-14-2007, 07:21
FH, I think you might have a princess running around somewhere by now, right? Prince Jobst eldest daughter should be of age now but nothing was reported.

OverKnight
06-14-2007, 07:56
Checking the latest save, there's no Princess agent.

StoneCold
06-14-2007, 08:34
Damn, I thought she is about age now. How many turn into FH term is it now anyway? Lost track of time I guess...

Edit: I check the library, Lyse von Salza - 10 at 1220, assuming aging at 1 a year and this is the 8th term of FH, she should be of age now, right? Is she still on the avatar list anyway?

Northnovas
06-14-2007, 08:42
FH got your pm it's 0400hrs just checking in from a short trip winding down from the driving and will shortly be gone for the rest of the week. I see it was resolved. One of these days I will get to actual use the avatar myself in a battle.
If there were any building orders for Damascus I would ensure any new hashish houses are fully licenced for the extra revenue. If the government doesn't ban it then they will tax it.:laugh4:
Keeping track of the post count I am sure there will be a lot to read when I get back.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 08:55
Aging in M2TW is 0.5 years per turn but a turn increases time by 2 years, so it won't be till turn 2 or 3 of the next chancellor that she comes of age.

Stig
06-14-2007, 09:17
I just found out something

The Russian army besieging Thorn still has no infantry in it. It's simply waiting on that big Russian army near Vilnius to move in and attack. Thorn is doomed.

StoneCold
06-14-2007, 09:27
ok, thanks FH.

Warluster
06-14-2007, 09:29
Hey FH,

In the Chancellor Report you accidently put Heinrich instead of Henry, just thought you should know :)

econ21
06-14-2007, 09:30
econ, do you mind if I set up a separate House thread for Outremer? I figure the Council of Crusaders is for Crusading purposes only and the East could use a day-to-day maintenance thread. Thanks.

You could do that, then I would close the Council of Crusaders as I don't think it would have any further function.

I was thinking the Council could now serve as a House of Outremer thread - all the Counts etc there are formally "Crusader Counts" and it is a crusader kingdom. However, if you want to do something special with the first post or just get things off on a new foot, you are welcome to start a new thread.

BTW: I guess we may have a problem with the House threads if Dukes pass on and so the new Duke can't maintain the first post. In that case, perhaps the new Dukes could liase with the players of the old to edit the first post as necessary? I know this is already being taken care of with some Houses.

I could also put any content you want into the Crusader thread first post if you want to keep the thread, but change the first post, GH.

EDIT: Stig: I gather we have a battle each. Please post when you are about to fight your battle then I will wait for you to upload a new save. I'll do the same, that way we will avoid fighting the two battles simultaneously. I won't get to play mine until tonight UK time.

Stig
06-14-2007, 09:45
Well if the sallying out is what FH means I just fought it, just to see how it would go really, here are the results:
https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/the_Stig_/Forumite%20Battle%20Result/0065.jpg



I also suggest that Jonas von Mahren moves north from now on. To Thorn, as we will get in big trouble there, seeing that Russian army, and those Polish armies.

econ21
06-14-2007, 09:58
So are we treating those results are final (looks fine to me)? If so, please upload a new save and I will fight my battle tonight.

Stig
06-14-2007, 10:11
Dunno, afterall I'm not Peter von Kastillien, I'm Ansehelm.

But here it comes:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1236-1.zip

econ21
06-14-2007, 11:18
Dunno, afterall I'm not Peter von Kastillien, I'm Ansehelm.


But Factionheir gave you the battle? (at least according to the PM I received that also addressed you). And Ansehelm was present?

The general the computer denotes as commanding does not necessarily have to be the one fighting the battle. Where there is more than one player controlled general, I think the Chancellor can have some discretion based on out of game availability and in game considerations. You sallying from the settlement you are Count of seems fine to me. It's a bit sad from the point of view of traits that Peter not Ansehelm benefits, but given it was a sally, there may not be anything that can be done about that.

I'll work from the save you uploaded unless someone shouts stop.

Stig
06-14-2007, 11:44
Yeah Ansehelm was present.
I'm still kinda pissed tho as I wasn't able to kill the Russian Family Member.


btw FH I insist you make sure Thorn gets a good garrison, have you seen what's coming?

TinCow
06-14-2007, 12:04
Why not just rename the Council of Crusaders thread to the House of Outremer thread and change the first post?

econ21
06-14-2007, 12:07
Why not just rename the Council of Crusaders thread to the House of Outremer thread and change the first post?

Yes, I think that can be done. I'll leave the decision to the King of Outremer.

StoneCold
06-14-2007, 13:00
I think Peter is still unknighted as of the Thorn sally battle, that's why FH give the battle to Stig?

Stig
06-14-2007, 13:05
True, DG never announced that Peter was knighted ... even tho he's one of the best Franconian generals.

econ21
06-14-2007, 13:20
Did Peter do enough for you to knight him in your battle, Stig?

Dutch_guy
06-14-2007, 13:34
True, DG never announced that Peter was knighted ... even tho he's one of the best Franconian generals.

I always forget to do so, but I think the fact that I put him in my stack before the battle (hence actually making him in charge) made me think he was already knighted. Even though FH clearly didn't intend that per sé, as he wanted Peter to be added as a re enforcement unit. Anyway, I'll see to it immediately.

In my latest battle that is.

:balloon2:

Stig
06-14-2007, 13:38
Did Peter do enough for you to knight him in your battle, Stig?
Well he was the first to storm a unit of those Russian Heavy Cav (druzihjahjadnasbahaehjaa), so yes.

GeneralHankerchief
06-14-2007, 15:41
Yes, I think that can be done. I'll leave the decision to the King of Outremer.

Fine by me. I'll craft a "first post" and send it to you later.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 15:45
What The Franconians said.

Alright, so I'll be fixing up the typo in the report and add the new results to it.

As for Thorn garrison, the troops I sent as reinforcements are caught up near Prgaue to hunt down the French. I'd prefer having Jobst and Jonas pursue them so they don't manage to escape and besiege something and take it.

I know about the Russian force near Thorn's border, but this turn I didn't manage to do too much hiring due to 2 expensive buildings:
Huge cathedral for Rome and Huge Stone Walls for Budapest.

I did retrain the Thorn garrison the last couple of turns though so they were all pretty much full regiments.
Depending on whether econ sacks or occupies Edessa, I'll be able to fund more troops in Franconia.

Stig
06-14-2007, 15:49
I too ransomed, and got money, so there is some.

And as I said in my PM, it seems like Jonas can't catch up with the French, so I'm willing to leave Thorn in order to collect his army (as I believe he has other directions and we need that army). I'm not the best commander anyway, that's Peter, by far.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 15:53
Jonas wants to go to Magdeburg last I checked, and that should lead him past Frankfurt. I'll see what the French army does after end turn though and move him accordingly.

I'll use the ransom to build stuff in Franconia.
Btw, I dunno if its a good idea for you to leave Thorn. Loads of Poles outside and a Russian stack nearby. Gibson has probs with his install last I heard.

gibsonsg91921
06-14-2007, 15:53
yep, next rainy day im reinstalling

Stig
06-14-2007, 15:57
Well Gunther is still there.
Sides Ansehelm should be able to outrun the Poles and should be able to meet Jonas at Magdeburg.

I would hate it if this army gets bribed as well, and we need someone to command it to Thorn. If we wait longer, Thorn will be under siege again.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 16:11
*Anselhelm tries to outrun Poles but is overtaken by hordes of Strelczy and Nobles*

Stig
06-14-2007, 16:16
Nope, as the one Russian army I fought of is gone in Poland and the other is made up out of infantry. Sides my route would be Stettin > Magdeburg there are no Poles there.

Dutch_guy
06-14-2007, 16:19
Well Gunther is still there.
Sides Ansehelm should be able to outrun the Poles and should be able to meet Jonas at Magdeburg.

I would hate it if this army gets bribed as well, and we need someone to command it to Thorn. If we wait longer, Thorn will be under siege again.

Keep in mind Günther's age though. At 55 (give or take) his life is ending, so best take that into account when planning your moves.

By the way, Jonas is moving to Hamburg, not Magdenburg - if Frankfurt is attacked I figure he could make a little detour.

The rest should be discussed in our own thread, though.

:balloon2:

McIwoo
06-14-2007, 19:48
my apologies for this noobish question but where could I get the last save of the game (and how can I make sure this is the last in general?)?

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 20:00
The newest save game is the one that was most recently uploaded. Sort by date when you view the PBM folder.

Stuperman
06-14-2007, 20:11
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/?C=M;O=D

pre-sorted for you (I think).

Why does the font for Kindom of the Outremer thread stay bold, like it hasn't been read yet? It's annoying

GeneralHankerchief
06-14-2007, 20:20
I think it's a mod feature that semi-stickies subjects for a period of time. It'll go away eventually, econ just wants to let everyone know that there's new, important edited material in the thread.

TinCow
06-14-2007, 20:25
Why does the font for Kindom of the Outremer thread stay bold, like it hasn't been read yet? It's annoying

In the Throne Room index, click on Forum Tools (top right) and then select Mark This Forum Read. That will remove the bold. Alternatively, click here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?do=markread&f=38) if you're lazy.

econ21
06-14-2007, 20:40
Why does the font for Kindom of the Outremer thread stay bold, like it hasn't been read yet? It's annoying

I dunno. I used my awesome moderator powers to bump it, as GH has altered the first post. However, it seems I don't know my own strength. Tincow's workaround undoes the havoc I have wrought.

GeneralHankerchief
06-14-2007, 22:02
Before anyone asks, I don't know that the Mongols are besieging Baghdad. All I know is that *someone* is. Check the latest savegame and mouse over the city to see what I mean.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 22:04
I don't think its Mongols. I didn't see a mongol CoA during the end turn sequence.

GeneralHankerchief
06-14-2007, 22:06
I don't think its Mongols. I didn't see a mongol CoA during the end turn sequence.

Hmm, well, if they're not attacking the city who is? Perhaps, since it's all happening in unknown territory, it just went by too fast for you to see?

If it turns out not to be the Mongols I'm going to feel like an idiot.

Stig
06-14-2007, 22:24
It turned Rebel and either Turks or Egyptians are retaking it?
Turks besieging Egyptians?
Egyptians besieging Turks?
Poles, Russians? (I've had them there in a campaign of mine)

econ21
06-14-2007, 23:49
Can I ask that no one reveal the identity of those besieging Baghdad either out of character or in character until we have the information in game. We have spies, let's use them. Anyone curious can always toggle fow, but there's no need to post about it (even using spoilers).

I've occupied Edessa. Henry had enough move to clear out the two nearby Egyptian armies with Elberhard, so I took the liberty of doing that too.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1236-2a.zip

Stig: do you plan to do a battle report about Thorn? If so, please post a placeholder.

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 23:50
Good job. Hope PO isn't too red :grin:

You posting battle reports or screens with odds and victory?

econ21
06-14-2007, 23:53
I'll write a story about Edessa; the other fight will be merely an addendum. I've got screenies of the casualties etc so you will get that info. Probably tomorrow evening though.

AussieGiant
06-14-2007, 23:53
What!!??

OK you're gross man!! :laugh4:

Otto's wife!! Come on brother that's just getting out of hand...

FactionHeir
06-14-2007, 23:55
Women are sparse in our empire. Most of our nobles are bachelors (including poor Hans)

econ21
06-14-2007, 23:56
What!!??

OK you're gross man!! :laugh4:

Otto's wife!! Come on brother that's just getting out of hand...

AussieGiant, careful how you talk about my sister. What is gross about a widow in her thirties finding solace in the arms of a younger man?

Come to think of it, weren't you just advertising for a wife in the Diet a minute ago? :idea2:

McIwoo
06-15-2007, 00:17
thx for the tip on the files :book:

AussieGiant
06-15-2007, 00:22
AussieGiant, careful how you talk about my sister. What is gross about a widow in her thirties finding solace in the arms of a younger man?

Come to think of it, weren't you just advertising for a wife in the Diet a minute ago? :idea2:


There's nothing wrong with her physically...I was strangely attracted to her, but that's another story :2thumbsup:

It's just the whole concept of OK writing about it himself...it's like a three way gone wrong and he's in charge...you know what I mean?:yes:

If I could marry your sister I would econ, but she's a widow and that's just not cool...or at least I thought it wasn't until just now when I went into the Sotries section for the first time in a week :laugh4:

FactionHeir
06-15-2007, 00:25
Righto guys.
Here's a list of possible battles that will be fought this turn. Certainly not final and not definite, but be prepared and do respond if you would be willing if the battle occurred:

Any von Kastilien vs Russian army near Thorn
Any von Kastilien vs token force guarding Thorn bridge
econ21 against a tiny rebel force near Edessa (let me know if you want me to take over and fight it. 3 militia units)
Warluster vs a Danish army blocking his way
Xdeathfire against the French besiegers

econ21
06-15-2007, 00:30
econ21 against a tiny rebel force near Edessa (let me know if you want me to take over and fight it. 3 militia units)

I'm always up for a fight - but it would be tomorrow evening. Must sleep now...

StoneCold
06-15-2007, 00:36
So Baghdad was sack by the second wave of mongols?

FactionHeir
06-15-2007, 00:38
Yup.

GeneralHankerchief
06-15-2007, 00:45
Suh-weet! Guess that hashish isn't just affecting Conrad. :shifty:

OverKnight
06-15-2007, 02:17
AussieGiant, careful how you talk about my sister. What is gross about a widow in her thirties finding solace in the arms of a younger man?

Come to think of it, weren't you just advertising for a wife in the Diet a minute ago?


There's nothing wrong with her physically...I was strangely attracted to her, but that's another story :2thumbsup:

It's just the whole concept of OK writing about it himself...it's like a three way gone wrong and he's in charge...you know what I mean?:yes:

If I could marry your sister I would econ, but she's a widow and that's just not cool...or at least I thought it wasn't until just now when I went into the Sotries section for the first time in a week :laugh4:

I'm sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities AG. :laugh4:

Econ21 hit the nail on the head, and also I'm trying to portray Elsebeth as a sort of Lucrezia Borgia type character. Without conventional means of power (Lands, titles or martial fame), Elsebeth is using the tools at her disposal to ensure Otto's and her own legacy, and of course to maintain her influence in the Reich after the loss of her husband.

Frankly, I find her a more interesting character to play with at this point, simply because nothing has really happened to Matthias yet. I'm sure that will change, but it's fun having her as bridge.

TinCow
06-15-2007, 02:25
I've got to admit, after playing one character for the 5 months getting a new one breathes new energy into the game. At least for me.

GeneralHankerchief
06-15-2007, 02:35
It took a while for me to get attached to Conrad, partially because I was having so much fun with Heinrich. I think the best thing in regards to making your new character your own is to get him involved in a complex story that really brings out his identity.

Stig
06-15-2007, 07:10
I'll fight my battles somewhere this afternoon, around 13:00 GMT

But I doubt I stand a change against those Russians.

econ21
06-15-2007, 08:56
But I doubt I stand a change against those Russians.

If you really think that, you don't have to fight the battle. Your army is still in Thorn and if you think attacking is ill advised, I think the Chancellor would listen. I guess it is up to you to role-play it; the House of Franconia or at least its other generals on the ground may also want a say.

Stig
06-15-2007, 10:40
Am already at home, that exam wasn't really worth the name exam.
Going to possibly fight the battles now.

FactionHeir
06-15-2007, 10:48
If you don't want to fight the Russians, then don't. Fight the Poles instead.
Remember that if you do attack the Russians, the result counts.

Stig
06-15-2007, 11:14
Attacked them, odds were 20:7 for me.
And it was an easy victory, here's the results:
https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/the_Stig_/Forumite%20Battle%20Result/0075.jpg


I'll make a nice story about the battle in some time.

I believe my army stayed just within the rules (12 units, 6 knights (2 dismounted, 2 generals, 2 cav knights)).

Have moved it back in the direction of Thorn as otherwise I would ask you to do that.
The Russian prisoners have been excuted, so they don't pose a threat to the Reich anymore.

Here's the save for the next one:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1238-2.zip

Kagemusha
06-15-2007, 12:15
I cant fight any battles untill sunday evening.Im just about to leave for a rock festival for the weekend.Have a nice weekend guys!:2thumbsup:

Warluster
06-15-2007, 12:30
Can i fight my battle tomorrowish, or is that too late?

econ21
06-15-2007, 13:55
I'll make a nice story about the battle in some time.


Sounds good - could you post a placeholder in the battles thread? You can edit in your story later, but it is good to keep things chronological.

Stig
06-15-2007, 13:56
I'm working on my story now, as I'm going to my parents this weekend.

Thus I won't be able to fight any battles before sunday 20:00 GMT, maybe even monday afternoon.

gibsonsg91921
06-15-2007, 15:34
pretty soon i should be able to get my game fixed and i can fight my battles, just keep me traveling with gunther or ansehelm for now i guess

econ21
06-15-2007, 18:05
I've downloaded Stig's save and will fight my skirmish soon.

econ21
06-15-2007, 18:49
OK, this is the new save - I believe for Warluster and xdeathfire:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1238-3.zip

121 Imperials fought 337 rebels. We lost 16; they lost 308. I think the odds were 2:1 in our favour, I'll check.

Factionheir: I think this is your last turn as Chancellor? When you have done everything, please add money to the AI and then end-turn - managing any battles that arise. Also please deal with all the messages for the start of 1140. Some may require our action, but I don't trust messages and savegames, so you can still act as Chancellor to make any decisions that can't be avoided (e.g. accepting guilds; marriage and diplomatic offers etc).

I guess we are heading for a Diet session on Mondary or thereabouts. Who is going to stand for Chancellor? Getting plotting!

TevashSzat
06-15-2007, 18:51
I'm gonna fight the battle tomorrow afternoon since I don't have access to M2TW until then but since im besieged right now, I guess factionheir could just leave it as it is and then have me fight it some other turn

econ21
06-15-2007, 18:59
I'm gonna fight the battle tomorrow afternoon since I don't have access to M2TW until then but since im besieged right now, I guess factionheir could just leave it as it is and then have me fight it some other turn

I looked at your army compared to the enemy's and it will not be an easy fight. You have numbers, but it is mainly militia and the AI have foot knights who excel at carving through militia. Maybe take a look at it tomorrow and decide what is best? I am not quite sure what has happened to the once great Army of Swabia. :inquisitive:

McIwoo
06-15-2007, 20:15
from the Chancellor and governor reports:



Construction
Marseille City Hall (Chancellor's Choice)

When I specified brothel before City Hall in the building queue. I'm not too fussed as they're both usefull at this point in time and the Chancellor is good player...basically to say that I dun mean to say that I'm offended or anything...but can the chancellor do that or has he just missed my post on the building queue?