View Full Version : Darth Dark Formations for EB
This is last updated Darth's formations for RTW, which i converted to EB.It contains several diferent formations for each faction.
You can check pictures of them here :
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62465
During testings , which i did with all factions, there was no CTD's.Casse generals or any other chariots didn't cause ctd either.Some of the formations are unortodox so don't get confused pls :beam:
From feedbacks so far , and testings, it appears that formations are optimized for HUGE unit settings.Phalanxes on huge have 6 rows ,but on large have 3 .If i change that it will affect units combat ability and create smaler unit formation , which will then lead to whole formation not functioning as it suppose to.Playing on large with same results is still possible though, AI will do same things , but formations will look little weirder.
Please send me feedback here or PM, if you encounter any recurring CTD or weird situation (meaning more then once). There are at least 4 formations per faction, and due to their randomness and time , i have no way to test all.
I am planing to possibly add some more formations in future to this file and do some more tweaking.
Place these files into EB/Data folder, and BACKUP your files first.
Link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/36336749/Darth_AI_8.0.rar
You can also try Thorlof's version which is posted in this forum.He did great job :2thumbsup:
I would like to thank Darth for alowing me to convert (at least try to) this file.
Pharnakes
06-11-2007, 00:01
Briliant, thanks:2thumbsup:
Agree with Pharnakes, truly amazing :2thumbsup:
This is great! Is it save game compatible? I've already got an older version of the mod.
This is great! Is it save game compatible? I've already got an older version of the mod.
Yes it is save compatibla as far as i know.
thanks. This mod does make the battles more challenging:book:
Captian Cornelius
06-17-2007, 06:49
Yay! No more one line battle formations.
thanks. This mod does make the battles more challenging:book:
I guess people likes it so far , since it has been downloaded 120+ times in 2 weeks period since posting...
Please send me feedback , if there is any problems , so i can try to work on that
Thanks:2thumbsup:
Pharnakes
06-28-2007, 00:03
One problem that I have noticed is that renforcments act very stupidly, spreading out all across the map, and then attacking one unit at a time. This problem is most noticeable when the renforcing army is larger than the atacking army, but I'm pretty sure this is an unimprovable rtw bug, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Except for that this has been very useful so far. Thank you.:2thumbsup:
One problem that I have noticed is that renforcments act very stupidly, spreading out all across the map, and then attacking one unit at a time. This problem is most noticeable when the renforcing army is larger than the atacking army, but I'm pretty sure this is an unimprovable rtw bug, so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Except for that this has been very useful so far. Thank you.:2thumbsup:
Yeah , what i found out from forums is that unit getting spread out all over battlemap is CA bug from 1.5. They actually officially admited that one :idea2:
minor thread revive,
I was wondering, will the AI now attack me head on?
Playing Macedon gets rather irritating when my (phalanx-based) opponents decide it's foolish to meet my untis in a line
Okay, still playing Darth, game is still good, and the AI definatly does some "new formations"
this is literally what they did when they attacked me, open field. I captured the screen moments after they sent a unit of slinger straight at my line...from 30 units straight to 7, javelins were flying.
https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9613/deathbystickshb9.th.png (https://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deathbystickshb9.png)
minor thread revive,
I was wondering, will the AI now attack me head on?
Playing Macedon gets rather irritating when my (phalanx-based) opponents decide it's foolish to meet my untis in a line
Some barbarian formations do have instructions to attack head on, but they will concentrate their troops on one place , while they send 1-2 units on sides to keep you busy there ..
I had reports that players got surounded. And i got surrounded as Makedon against Epeirotes once.
Okay, still playing Darth, game is still good, and the AI definatly does some "new formations"
this is literally what they did when they attacked me, open field. I captured the screen moments after they sent a unit of slinger straight at my line...from 30 units straight to 7, javelins were flying.
It looks to me that they are trying to outflank you on top of the screen.
Are you playing on Huge unit setting or lower ones? Also they look outnumbered ? Thats Romani right ?They are using their Manipular formation , but they don't look like they got enough manpower for it ..And they changing that into crescent shaped formation , while they will try to keep you busy with middle units.
Just trying to get more details to be able to pinpoint:2thumbsup:
ohh, I see
well, what basically happened was my opponent formed three columns (like you can see)
and I guess they indeed tried to flank me from both sides...but it sorta backfired (very, very badly)
thanks for all the answers!
ohh, I see
well, what basically happened was my opponent formed three columns (like you can see)
and I guess they indeed tried to flank me from both sides...but it sorta backfired (very, very badly)
thanks for all the answers!
Unfortunatelly, i can't make them win in that condition, hehe ....These formations will make them more manuverable. And they will inflict more casualties then with vanilla formations.
In full strenght and with huge/large setting , they can beat you if they have better quality units and at least same number of units, example African pikes and elite infantry.
For more than that , only way out is playing on Hard for battles. I can assure you that you will get run for your money in that case. AI will broke thru your wings and suround you if you don't react on time and fast:2thumbsup:
The Wicked
07-07-2007, 15:24
Hi guys... Well i have a problem i cannot download the file because the dap cannot find a source to download any help?
Hi guys... Well i have a problem i cannot download the file because the dap cannot find a source to download any help?
Thast because Rapidshare doesn't support DAP or any download manager as safeguard from so-called "robotic spam sites"
try this one :2thumbsup: :
http://www.axifile.com/?7053495
if that doesn't work you gonna have to download that manually.
The Wicked
07-07-2007, 16:15
Thast because Rapidshare doesn't support DAP or any download manager as safeguard from so-called "robotic spam sites"
try this one :2thumbsup: :
http://www.axifile.com/?7053495
if that doesn't work you gonna have to download that manually.
thanks:2thumbsup:
Reno Melitensis
07-07-2007, 17:08
I will give it a try. In my Romani campain I am fighting against Koinnon Hellanon, and they are not giving me too much trouble.
Back again, with more questions...
how do I change to units default line-up? With EB all my units were 6 deep and 10 wide (or so, 60 units, medium size) but with Darth everything is 3 deep and incredibly wide.
It's not bad, but it looks ridiculously thin, and breaking through the line is easy...
which lines should I change?
Back again, with more questions...
how do I change to units default line-up? With EB all my units were 6 deep and 10 wide (or so, 60 units, medium size) but with Darth everything is 3 deep and incredibly wide.
It's not bad, but it looks ridiculously thin, and breaking through the line is easy...
which lines should I change?
If you read first post these formations are designed by Darth for Huge size units. They are playable on Large also, but they look little bit different.Anything lower then that will make them really weird looking.
Problem is that if you make unit formation 6 lines deep on medium , that same formation will be 12+ man deep on Huge.Plus units will be overlapping each other.Thats limitation of the engine:embarassed:
you can try changing some of these lines, but i cannot guaranty that you won't have CTD or that formation will function in supposed way, sorry :
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 2 0.0 -6.0
inter_unit_spacing 0.2
I am planing to make one for Large/Medium units size , just didn't have time to get around.
ahh..that settles it then...I'll check it out...
stupid me for not backing up ("ahh it's Darth, what could go wrong?") the formation files...
thank you for your help!
can u edit the formation that is default for when the enemy sallies? my army is just basically all jumbled together.
can u edit the formation that is default for when the enemy sallies? my army is just basically all jumbled together.
I will take look into it , i noticed that Darth didn't change those for some reason.Maybe they are not changable without causing CTD.
Did you have that happen more then once? I personally didn't have any problem like that so far.
Lysander13
07-10-2007, 05:51
Back again, with more questions...
how do I change to units default line-up? With EB all my units were 6 deep and 10 wide (or so, 60 units, medium size) but with Darth everything is 3 deep and incredibly wide.
It's not bad, but it looks ridiculously thin, and breaking through the line is easy...
which lines should I change?
If by changing the units to default line-up you mean having your units "deploy" in terms of width as they originally did before you installed the Darth Formation File then it is simple. It's simply a case of overriding Darth's
min_unit_width & max_unit_width command to allow EB's EDU settings to dictate how each unit will deploy. All you have to do is in your text editor find the "replace" function. (Control + H for Notepad and Notepad ++ users)
In the "find what" box type:
min_unit_width
In the "replace with" box type:
;min_unit_width
Then select "replace all"
Repeat the same process to override the max_unit_width command.
In the "find what" box type:
max_unit_width
In the "replace with" box type:
;max_unit_width
Then select "replace all". Your units will now deploy using EB's EDU settings while using Darth's AI Formations. Changing the following text....
block_formation line
block_relative_pos 2 0.0 -6.0
inter_unit_spacing 0.2
Will alter the position of the unit in that block as it's relative to the rest of the formation but will not change it's depth or width.
you guys are hero's!
thanks a million!
Lysander13
07-11-2007, 06:04
can u edit the formation that is default for when the enemy sallies? my army is just basically all jumbled together.
Keep in mind when this happens your forces are either laying siege to a city and or are about to lead a wall assault. So since your forces are laying siege to a city by default they will be deployed either in a Wall Assault or Siege Deployment formation. So when the enemy sallies this is the formation they are caught in. There is no "when an enemy sallies" formation. You must re-deploy as the enemy sallies. So if you choose to starve out a city keep in mind on the last turn i believe the enemy always sallies; so if you don't like to fight an enemy who sallies forward, make sure you attack the walls before they come out from behind them.
Q: Archers
I had to raise a merc army( phanlax skirmish and archers) to fight of a enemy stack when i attacked and made first contact the archers rushed in without firing a single shot
i had had my army under ai control except for my cavalry
is this still a common problem?
everything else went fine the enemy got flanked etc
btw this was my first roman battle with this mod i had 8 units the enemy only 3 but they where elite
sorry for my english
Q: Archers
I had to raise a merc army( phanlax skirmish and archers) to fight of a enemy stack when i attacked and made first contact the archers rushed in without firing a single shot
i had had my army under ai control except for my cavalry
is this still a common problem?
everything else went fine the enemy got flanked etc
btw this was my first roman battle with this mod i had 8 units the enemy only 3 but they where elite
sorry for my english
Not a common thing(that i know of), it looks to me that AI used them as light infantry, in lack of it.
Ai has a list of preference for each position in formation, if unit that is first on the list is not available then AI go down the list till find one.If there is none from that list, AI will chose on it's own:no:
I would believe thats what happened.
Quirinus Kuhlmann
07-12-2007, 07:43
I have one more question about changing the width of the deployed units in darths dark formations: Do I have to replace the "min_unit_width" and "max_unit_width" lines only in the "decr_formations.txt" or in both txt.-files?
Not a common thing(that i know of), it looks to me that AI used them as light infantry, in lack of it.
Ai has a list of preference for each position in formation, if unit that is first on the list is not available then AI go down the list till find one.If there is none from that list, AI will chose on it's own:no:
I would believe thats what happened.
Ok thats make sense
But what is the best unit composition for my roman legions i mean how many archer/skirmishers, tiari, principles, cavalry do i need in 1 legion so this mod can use the legion to the max where its made for
Ok thats make sense
But what is the best unit composition for my roman legions i mean how many archer/skirmishers, tiari, principles, cavalry do i need in 1 legion so this mod can use the legion to the max where its made for
There is post with historical army compositions somewhere on forum. I always try to play according to that one. There will be always chance that Ai can misplace unit ( nothing that we can do about it).
But don't forget that you had only 8 units in your army, so there was a big chance that you were missing some type of unit.And AI had only 3 , so he had to come up with some melee fighters:idea2:
Lysander13
07-13-2007, 04:00
I have one more question about changing the width of the deployed units in darths dark formations: Do I have to replace the "min_unit_width" and "max_unit_width" lines only in the "decr_formations.txt" or in both txt.-files?
Actually, it only needs to be edited in descr_formations_ai.txt.
You don't have to touch descr_formations.txt. I know it sounds like i have it backwards but only descr_formations_ai.txt is necessary.
Quirinus Kuhlmann
07-13-2007, 10:21
Thank you very much for the help, Lysander!
Edit: Just tried it, seems to work fine. Thanx again!
There is post with historical army compositions somewhere on forum. I always try to play according to that one. There will be always chance that Ai can misplace unit ( nothing that we can do about it).
But don't forget that you had only 8 units in your army, so there was a big chance that you were missing some type of unit.And AI had only 3 , so he had to come up with some melee fighters:idea2:
Ok thanks,
Just had my polybian reforms
my polybian army composition is
1 general
2 cavalry
5 hastati
5 principes
3 triarrii
2 hastati samnitici
2 velites
but i'm still l:dizzy2: king for a big fight with these legions
setting is huge and playing VH/M
i will keep you informed with screen shots if you like
Lysander13
07-14-2007, 05:44
Thank you very much for the help, Lysander!
Edit: Just tried it, seems to work fine. Thanx again!
Good to hear...Enjoy :2thumbsup:
Had a fight with my polybian army against a full stack from Carthage (sorry forgot the eb name)
they had 2 generals 4 heavy spearman 2 heavy assault troops and 2 of those iberian heavy lancers cavalry and allot of medium spearman
in short the infantry was acting ok but my cavalry now controlled also by ai went around and attacked a group of heavy spearman and a general and they were not yet engaged in the main fight of course they received unnecessary heavy beating
and my general was staying a little bit far behind my troops and attacked a few times the mainforce head on
https://img257.imageshack.us/img257/701/rometwbi20070714ebxd2.th.png (https://img257.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rometwbi20070714ebxd2.png)
Reno Melitensis
07-16-2007, 23:36
The best way to fight with a polybian legion is like this. First you must deploy your units in squares, each square represents one maniple. You need 4 maniples each of Hastati and Principe, and 3 of Triarii, there where always fewer Triarii then the other two. Now in a legion there normally there was 1200 each of Hastati and Principe and the same amount of Velites, so you will need 4. In a standard legion there was about 300 cavalry, I usally take two or one, as there is always the Consular bodyguard. Fill the remaining option with Accensi, there are worth it.
Now, when you go to battle deploy your legions in a checkboard formation, Hastati in front, Principe behind and triarii the third line. Leave the Accensi behind the Triarii. Deploy the velites between the maniples of hastati, and deactivate the skirmish mode. When you attack, shower your enemies with javlins, then attack first with Hastati then the Principe. If you are attacked take a defensive approach. Wait for the enemy to be within javlin range, shower them, then pull back the velites out of harm way and fill in the gaps with the Principe. Only use the Triarii to help in desperate situations, and try to outflank with the cavalry. If you what to add some italian allies replace the Hastati with the Hastati Samnitici and Principe with the samnites milites. sadly there are no replacments for the Triarii, but the Classic italian Hoplites will do.
Cheers.
Blingerman
07-20-2007, 11:10
Is it compatible with First cohor mod?
Lysander13
07-20-2007, 14:34
Is it compatible with First cohor mod?
Yes it is, as this file will not overwrite any file in the First Cohort Mod or vice versa.
Edit: This is true presuming the only 2 files contained in this download are descr_formations.txt and descr_formations_ai.txt.
Darth has a non-mod specific version of the formation files in his formations Super Pack. Does this not work with EB?
Darth has a non-mod specific version of the formation files in his formations Super Pack. Does this not work with EB?
No it doesn't , since you have to match formations with factions and their names in EB. Plus those are based on vanila strenghts of units, which are different then EB ones.
Modification includes combination of , what i have found most appropriate formations to match EB units.Unfortunatelly, nothing cannot be perfect due to many things.But i have intention to fix some stuff in 0.9.
I personally was not to happy with behavior in battles with that non-mod, units were not trying to flank much.
Patriote
08-21-2007, 22:23
Hi
I have been trying lately to do the modification the Lysander13 explained a couple of posts sooner.
However, when the "replace all" function, the notepad always end up freezing and doing all the replacements manually is time consuming, is there any reasons why notepad would freeze like that?
Thanks
Don't know any reason, but you could try to do the replacement in another tool, such as Wordpad.
Hi
I have been trying lately to do the modification the Lysander13 explained a couple of posts sooner.
However, when the "replace all" function, the notepad always end up freezing and doing all the replacements manually is time consuming, is there any reasons why notepad would freeze like that?
Thanks
I am not sure why is that happening , but i am certain that is not caused by specific file.
As Bovi suggested , try wordpad:2thumbsup:
Patriote
08-23-2007, 20:13
Why haven't think of that myself ? :sweatdrop:
Thanks for the info !
I'm gonna try that soon enough :2thumbsup:
Hi mlp071,
Still enjoying the mod but noticed something
It's with the testudo formations
If you have to deploy your army the distance between your soldiers is normal but when your playing en go to testudo formation and then let them go form a normal battleline the spaces between the soldiers is much smaller almost a sort of shieldwall
please take a look at the picture it explains it al lot better I hope ps the new formed (shieldwall) formation is superb BTW a lot lesser casualties:2thumbsup:
https://img66.imageshack.us/img66/932/testudo1ad9.gif (https://imageshack.us)
Just one let you know thanks for this mod again
i am looking through this formations_ai and some of the min and max already have a ; before them
will it confuse things? as the autoreplace sees the min value and still puts the ; before it making it look like this
;;min_unit_width
with two ;
TWFanatic
09-27-2007, 02:06
Hi mlp071,
Still enjoying the mod but noticed something
It's with the testudo formations
If you have to deploy your army the distance between your soldiers is normal but when your playing en go to testudo formation and then let them go form a normal battleline the spaces between the soldiers is much smaller almost a sort of shieldwall
please take a look at the picture it explains it al lot better I hope ps the new formed (shieldwall) formation is superb BTW a lot lesser casualties:2thumbsup:
https://img66.imageshack.us/img66/932/testudo1ad9.gif (https://imageshack.us)
Just one let you know thanks for this mod again
Everything has that. It has nothing to do with this mod. Vanilla RTW has that.
i am looking through this formations_ai and some of the min and max already have a ; before them
will it confuse things? as the autoreplace sees the min value and still puts the ; before it making it look like this
;;min_unit_width
with two ;
Those make the line of code following it be invisible to RTW. Try it: type ; before a random line of text and it will have absolutely no effect on your game.
does this work with 1.0? you would think so, but I just want to make sure.
does this work with 1.0? you would think so, but I just want to make sure.
I'll repeat what I said in the other formation thread: yes, it will work in EB 1.0, but the EB has been working on their own formations, so you may want to give them a try before overwriting them with Darth's.
I already have, and I just prefer darth's more.
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