Royal Parliament

[Ignoramus]

[OOC] This thread is for players in the Magna Carta PBM to post in character public deliberations in the Royal Parliament. All out of character debate should be conducted in the OOC thread.

The Parliament has two main functions: to vote taxes, , and to pass petitions for the King ot conside.

The Diet will be governed by William the Conqueror (Cecil_XIX) or, in his absence, by his son, Prince Rufus (Ignoramus).

Petitions need to be formally proposed as follows:

Petition by (baron) I beseech the King to declare war on Scotland.

Petitions need two seconders (who should explicitly use the word "second" when supporting a motion) before they can be put to the vote.

**********************************************************

[Cecil XIX]

My sons! It's been fourteen years since I took you to this island, but there remains much work to be done. Northumbria and Wales still do not recognize my authority, and the Canmores to the North will surely contest my rule of this island. Our native Normandy may be at peace for now, but I am sure that the King of France will seek to reestablish his authority over his 'duchy'. So boys, what say you? What petitions do have for the betterment of my realm?

[Warluster]

There remains many things to be discussed.

Shall we move to take Wales? The area of Wales is not economically developed, but I hear there Bowmen are of the finest expertise.

Of course, it would be very wise for us to secure our bases in France? Perhaps to deal with Rennes or Flanders? It would secure a good sturdy income and a base to watch France with.

[gibsonsg91921]

I, Robert, reccomend that we conquer Rennes to increase our hold on the mainland.

[Cecil XIX]

Is that a petition, my son?

[gibsonsg91921]

Verily, 'tis a petition.

Petition by Robert: I beseech the King to conquer the province of Rennes and assimilate it unto English rule.

[Ignoramus]

William Rufus stands up.

I will put forward my petition to my father, the King.

Petition by William Rufus: I urge my father to consider an alliance with the Kingdom of France. I have heard rumours of his daughter's great beauty. Surely even they can recognise the importance of being related to the powerful conqueror of England.

My brother, do not be too zealous for glory. This kingdom of ours has scarcely accepted our rule, and I fear that the Bretons could prove fierce foes to our arms.

[Warluster]

William, am I deceived, but from what I see, you are scrabbling for a alliance with France for love.

I shall not support that petition, but I shall support Robert's Petition.

[gibsonsg91921]

I second the petition by William Rufus, as Constance will bring many new children into the family.

[Csargo]

I second the petition put forward by Robert.

Petition:Take the settlement of York.

Taking York would be a good endeavor for many reasons. It will stop the Scots from moving south, it could be used as a forward base against the Scots or attacking Dublin. There are many good reasons for taking York.

[gibsonsg91921]

I second the Petition by (Ichigo). I also hope that William Rufus's petition is granted, as Constance is a true beauty and will bless our royal family with many new children (OOC: and avatars). I would rephrase the petition to specifically state marriage alliance - our sister Cecilia can easily negotiate such a settlement.

[Ignoramus]

I, too, second the good baron's proposal. This would, however, require the assent of Parliament, for we are at peace with the rebels and traitors.

I furthermore encourage this House to be liberal in their voting of taxes to my father, the King. The realm is not yet so secure as to render further florins unneccessary.

[gibsonsg91921]

Petition by Robert: I believe that the realm should be governed by an average, normal tax rate.

[gibsonsg91921]

Father, regarding crown lands, William Rufus is to be Count of Nottingham and I Count of Caen, correct? Rufus is already a Prince, but I must be made a Count to fight.

[Cecil XIX]

You are correct, my son. The Crown Prince will be given Mercia to govern, and you Normandy. As for taxes, I believe it would be best to give that issue it's own poll. Although if you all were to make your opinions voiced now, an informal poll would work just as well.

[gibsonsg91921]

Excellent, father - I shall not let you down.

[Csargo]

I support a normal tax rate throughout our lands.

[Ignoramus]

I thank you, father, for granting me the lands of Mercia. I shall hold Nottingham against all your enemies - be they Scots, Welshmen, or Saxons.

I, with my retainers, am ready to bring those rebellious Saxons of York into subjection. I urge you to send me against them with all speed.

[Warluster]

I support the rate of High Taxes, to test out the waters.

Peace with the rebels, are we? Those peoples are traitors! I can't believe we're at peace when they've butchered many good English Peoples!

[Ignoramus]

Bah! I care not how many Englishmen perish; I am more concerned about the death of good Normans.

I trust that they shall see the futility of resistance once I have stormed York.

[gibsonsg91921]

Remember brother, the Englishmen are our subjects now and our tax base. We cannot alienate our new subjects or Normans will die.

[Cecil XIX]

In anticipation of the end of the polling time (though further waiting would be only for formality's sake), I am asking for the build queues for Nottingham and Caen from William Rufus and Robert Curthose.

OOC: I'll probably start as soon as you get them to me, whether the poll time is finished or not.

[gibsonsg91921]

Build Queue for Caen:
1. Small Chapel
2. Stables
3. cont
4. Ballista Maker
5. cont
6. cont
7. Dirt Roads

[Cecil XIX]

Are you leaving the unit queue up to my discretion, Robert?

[gibsonsg91921]

Indeed, as long as you remember your roots and leave Normandy with a fair garrison as I expand to Brittany.

[gibsonsg91921]

Father, I implore you to consider the conquest of Brittany (Rennes) even though the petition was rejected by Rufus. My brother has influenced the Electors, but many barons have voted to besiege the city of Rennes and it will increase our holdings on the mainland Europe. Normandy is strong, but economically it cannot support itself as it is a military hub and not an urban center.

[Warluster]

But Rpbert, our settlements in England are even weaker then Caen. We need to secure a powerful area in our newly conquered lands of England,before turning back onto our French Brothers.

[Cecil XIX]

My lords, the state of the Kingdom is strong. It is now 1082, and out of respect for our Council of Nobles I have sent Robert Curthose with an army to annex Britanny, currently enroute. I have also located the French princess, Constance. I know you fancy her Rufus, hopefully between your sister Cecilia and our official envoy Lawrence Bidell she'll be convinced to take your hand. Also, I have decided that our merchant Samuel will be better able to serve us trading gold in Africa. To that end I intent to use the services of one of our cogs.

Back on the island, York is ours as you have heard. I have taken arrangements to make sure his depleted regiment are swapped for fresher troops. Since our infastructure is currently rather sparse I'm recruiting militia in London for a possible foray into Wales. If you have someplace you'd like to be Rufus I'm all ears. Finally, the Scots offered us trade trade rights and map information. Never one to refuse something for nothing, I gladly accepted.

Finally, I want it to be known that I intend to make regular reports every four years hence. Cheers, my men!

[gibsonsg91921]

Excellent! I shall not fail Normandy in my siege!

OOC: How do I upload battles, and where?

[Cecil XIX]

It is now 1088. Robert, I believe you are now ready to take Brittany. The task should not be difficult; I've been cautious enough to give you three rams for the task. I've posted the necessary information through the usual channels. Here's to your victory. In other news, I have secured marriage between Crown Prince William Rufus and the French Princess Constance. We are now allied with the French.

On a sour note, a rather large rebel army has been spotted some ways west of London.

https://img460.imageshack.us/img460/9455/medieval220070624013320kx3.jpg

Such matters demand a serious response, so I intend to bring these men to justice myself once I've gathered sufficient forces in London. Rufus! I'm afraid I'm going to need to borrow those Hobilars you been training in Mercia. Rest assured I'll be careful with them. I'll rebort to you next once these rebels have been dealt.

[Ignoramus]

My father, if you had but asked, I would have willingly given you leave of them. But I am disappointed by your actions concerning my retainers.

[gibsonsg91921]

http://123pichosting.com/images/6661brittanysiege1.JPG

I have fought the Battle in Brittany and I bring good tidings! My troops have won a heroic victory over the Rebel scoundrels. I have peacefully occupied the city of Rennes so as to not spill civilian blood.

OOC: Save uploaded

[Cecil XIX]

Rufus, what actions concerning your retainers? It is perfectly within my rights to requisition soldiers from lands that are not under my direct control. Or do you object to my shuffling of troops between Nottingham and York?

[gibsonsg91921]

Brother, you must remember the rest of England, and not just your lands.

OOC: York is still a crown land, correct?

[Warluster]

Excellent.

We now have secured good land in England, but I think, to secure the southern part of England, we need to take Caernovan.

I also congratulate the Generals who won the battles of York and Rennes.

[gibsonsg91921]

ooc: rufus is getting disloyal sounding... lol

[Cecil XIX]

I agree with you, Robert. I hope to have enough strength to continue on into Wales after I crush the rebel army.

[Cecil XIX]

I am writing to Parliament on the eve of battle with the rebel army.

Rufus, it turns out I do not need the services of your hobilars. You see, the Council of Nobles request I initiated diplomat contact with the Holy Roman Empire. Fortunately I had already sent Cecilia off to negotiate with them. When she arrived at Staufen, a nice chap named Henry agreed to exchange of map information, as well as mutual trade rights. The reward was two units of Hobilars paid for and raised by the Council. This, combined with four wings of Mailed Knights that the council provided to reward Rober Curthose's taking of Brittany, and I've decied to have a bit of fun and crush the rebels with my cavalry.

Also, I must ask for extra build queues from Robert and Rufus. Both of you can review the state of your counties in the post-battle state of affairs report Robert posted. Robert, you currently have twelve thousand ninety florins at your disposal. Oh, and I would appreciate it if all future Counts and Dukes posted their build queque in the style of Rufus's here. It allows them more control, and requires less work on my part.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=196697

Now then, off to battle!

[gibsonsg91921]

Is York to be granted to Rufus and Rennes to me?

[Cecil XIX]

In fact, I will grant Northumbria to Henry when he comes of age. Brittany I will keep for myself until Cecilia marries or one of you has a son.

And let me state right now that I if I do not get build queues in twenty-fours no buildings will be contructed or troops raised in Nottingham or Caen excepting a state of emergency.

[gibsonsg91921]

Unit Build Queue for Caen:
Mailed Knights
Hobilars

Buildings - I'm all set for now

[Ignoramus]

For the next four years, I only desire the land the be cleared that crops grown(Land Clearance).

[Cecil XIX]

Men, The Kingdom is doing well in this year of our lord 1094. As you know I crushed the rebels west of London and moved on from there into Wales. The council of nobles has backed my campaign and offered twenty-five hundred florins if Wales is brought into the fold within thirty years.

Again, I must ask Robert and Rufus for their building and training queues. Again, if they are not posted in twenty-four hours Caen and Nottingham will produce nothing except tax revenues.

Rufus, you have fifteen hundred seventy florins at your disposal. Robert, you have fifteen hundred thirty.

[Cecil XIX]

Gentlemen, my son Henry has finally come of age!

https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2631/henryth5.jpg

Henry, i hereby proclaim to be Count of Northumbria. You may now set training and building queues for the town of York. I'll give you twenty-four hours to do so.

[gibsonsg91921]

Excellent - more barons of Britain to drive back our foes!

[Cecil XIX]

Welcome to the Twelve Century, men. Things have been a bit quiet here, so I've decided to ask for your petitions.

[gibsonsg91921]

Verily, Lord.

Petition by Robert Curthose: A spy is to be sent into the settlement of Bruges to detect the organization of its armies. A force is to be created large enough to match these armies and it must be attacked.

Flanders is a region of utmost significance, as it is on the sea, is fertile for farming, has many trade resources, and is a buffer to prevent the Vikings from attacking Normandy.

[gibsonsg91921]

'Tis quiet on the Parliament floor, have anyone any petitions?

[Csargo]

I don't agree with your latest petition Robert. I believe we should unite the British Isles before starting on the mainland unless of course we are provoked. I think we should first concentrate on Dublin and Wales unless the King has already taken Wales. I could undertake the task of attacking Dublin, but I'm not quite sure i how many, or if I have any troops.

[Cecil XIX]

OOC: I remebered that I proposed a different way of dealing with families recently. With that in mind, I'm proposing a Nobile Charter Amendent

Noble CA 2.1 -

Where Section 4 previously read:

"4. The role of the four families - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four families representing the four main branches of the family tree: Rufus, Curthose, Beauclerc, or (Cecilia’s husband’s).

4.2 All lands at the start of the game are crown lands. Lands conquered by Royal Armies and Counts belong to the crown; lands conquered by Dukes are added to their ducal demesne.

4.3 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game.

4.4 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts. Counts stripped of their title by Dukes may appeal to the King.

4.5 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law)."

It shall be changed to read:

"4. The role of the families - Dukes and Counts

4.1 Magna Carta starts with one family, which branches off into seperate families as the game progresses.

4.2 Each family has a leader (referred to here after as a 'Patriarch'), defined as a Noble whose father (by blood, marriage, or adoption) is deceased. For each Patriarch there is a family, and everyone below the patriarch on the family tree is part of his family.

4.3 If a Patriarch has one or more adult sons and more than one settlement he is a Duke. If not, he is a Count.

4.4 All lands at the start of the game are crown lands. Lands conquered by Patriarchs are added to their family, lands conquered by others become crown lands.

4.5 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant family. There will be no dukes until King William dies.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts. Counts stripped of their title by Dukes may appeal to the King.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law)."

In addition, Section 5.3 will be changed from

"The King can allocate crown lands to barons, counts or Dukes.."

to

"The King can allocate crown lands to Patriarchs."

[gibsonsg91921]

I second the Noble Charter Amendment, but I have one question. As I conquered Rennes and Rufus York, would they not be part of our domains and no longer crown lands?

[Cecil XIX]

As the revised 4.4 would state, all lands not conqueored by patriarchs become crown lands. Since the only patriarch at the start of a campaign is the faction leader, all lands conqueored until the death of King Williaim will be crown lands. While I can't say what others would do, I prefer to wait and assign lands when more family members are born.

[gibsonsg91921]

Aha! I get it now.

[Cecil XIX]

The period for proposals and debate has expired. Unfortunately nothing received two seconders, so there will be no voting.

[Cecil XIX]

My sons! In it's wisdom, the Council of Nobles has issued a request that we launch an expedition into the low countries and sieze Antwerp. As I have just finished seizing Wales, I hereby requesting a volunteer to lead the invasion. As a reward, I will give the region to whomever takes the city. Intelligence is relativelys sparse at this point, right now all we know is that were are seven regiments, including at least one of Flemish Pikemen. I have already sent a spy to the region, who should be able to provide a clearer picture.

[gibsonsg91921]

I shall volunteer my father! I am certain I shall be able to succeed.

[Cecil XIX]

The Pope has called for a Holy Crusade to reclaim Jerusalem from the advancing Mohammedians. Is there any who wish to join in service to the Lord?

[gibsonsg91921]

Not at the present, sire, but perhaps after I claim the Low Countries.

[Cecil XIX]

It is now the year of our lord 1220, and I shall inform my subjects of recent events.

First and foremost, my daughter Cecilia is finally married to one Stephen Allen, whom I have made Count of Brittany.

https://img234.imageshack.us/img234/9862/stephenallen1220rj9.jpg

Lads, make sure your new brother-in-law is made welcome.

Our second piece of news is also good. My son and heir, Prince Rufus, has a lovely daughter by the name of Edyth.

Next, Robert's army is at the gates of Antwerp, all the necessary siege engines having been built. Currently there is no rush, as the garrison will starve before the time limit imposed by the Council of Nobles runs out. I await his recommendation on how to proceed.

Also, I will remind all my nobles that none of you have submitted build queues for your respective counties. Perhaps my insistence on a proper format has made you hesitant to trouble me at all, but I assure you I am more then capable of handling even the most general queues. And do not worry about money, over the last fifteen years you all have accumulated more than enough credit. As it stands this complacency is starting to affect your reputations, as the people of Nottingham now seem to think that Prince Rufus is religiously improper. This is not something that I want repeated, so all of you need to submit build queues as soon as you can.

Finally, as you are aware I am getting up in the years. With that in mind I am once again calling for your petitions so I can resubmit my own legistlation. If you yourselfs also want have something to say, make it known now or take it up with Rufus later.

Noble Charter Amendment 3.1

Where Section 4 previously read:

"4. The role of the four families - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four families representing the four main branches of the family tree: Rufus, Curthose, Beauclerc, or (Cecilia’s husband’s).

4.2 All lands at the start of the game are crown lands. Lands conquered by Royal Armies and Counts belong to the crown; lands conquered by Dukes are added to their ducal demesne.

4.3 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game.

4.4 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts. Counts stripped of their title by Dukes may appeal to the King.

4.5 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law)."

It shall be changed to read:

"4. The role of the families - Dukes and Counts

4.1 Magna Carta starts with one family, which branches off into seperate families as the game progresses.

4.2 Each family has a leader (referred to here after as a 'Patriarch'), defined as a Noble whose father (by blood, marriage, or adoption) is deceased. For each Patriarch there is a family, and everyone below the patriarch on the family tree is part of his family.

4.3 If a Patriarch has more then one settlement in his family he is a Duke. If not, he is a Count.

4.4 All lands at the start of the game are crown lands. Lands conquered by Patriarchs are added to their family, lands conquered by others become crown lands.

4.5 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant family. There will be no dukes until King William dies.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts. Counts stripped of their title by Dukes may appeal to the King.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law)."

In addition, Section 5.3 will be changed from

"The King can allocate crown lands to barons, counts or Dukes.."

to

"The King can allocate crown lands to Patriarchs."

[gibsonsg91921]

I second the Noble Charter Amendment.

[Csargo]

I second it also. Also, is Dublin still in rebel hands?

[gibsonsg91921]

I petition to have as high taxes as possible with the population still content (yellow).

[Cecil XIX]

Winston, King William's bodyguard, enters Parliament

My lords, I regret to inform you that King William has passed away in this, the year of our lord 1126. All hail King Rufus. Allow me to report on recent developments.

There have been several additions to the Royal Family. In 1122 then Prince Robert married a young English noblewomen named Emeline Haynes. Shortly King William died, King Rufus gave birth to a son, Nicholas. Also, Stephen Allen now has a daughter named Scholast. Beyond that, the siege of Antwerp is proceeding nicely.

The King is dead, long live the King!

[Ignoramus]

I now convene a new Parliament in the year of our Lord, 1126.

I ask you to present your petitions for my benefit.

[gibsonsg91921]

Petition by Prince Robert: All remaining rebel provinces on the British Isles are to be conquered by English forces.

[Cecil XIX]

Petition: The Kingdom of England unify the British Isles by conquering Scotland and Ireland.

[gibsonsg91921]

I second the unnamed Baron's petition.

[gibsonsg91921]

While the voting may never have had enough seconders to begin, I still strongly support the crushing of all Scots and rebels on the mainland. I hope my brother King William Rufus, Earl of Wessex, will have the wisdom to liberate our new homeland, while staying just as focused on the old. The Siege of Antwerp goes well, and my men are eager to storm the keep.