Suggestion Box

[Taranaich]

I've had a couple of offers from people regarding content for the mod and suggestions, so I thought rather than have the ideas lost in other threads anyone could post their thoughts and ideas here!

These can include units, buildings, characters, traits, ancillaries, events and anything which would make gameplay richer and more interesting. I already have a good number of interesting characters and ancillaries who I'll put in a thread when I have their pictures done, but any input is most welcome for consideration.

[GrimFinger]

Rather than calling the Picts "The Pictish Confederacy," which makes them sound too civilized, rather than as a bunch of tribes that war upon one another, why not call them simply "The Picts," or "The Savage Picts," or "The Pictish Wilderness?"

Outsiders might well lump all Picts together, but the individual Pictish tribes would be distinguishable to other Picts, even if outsiders couldn't tell them apart in all instances. For that matter, why not have some Pictish tribes that look very, very similar to one another, even identical, yet have different stats? This could help to account for why outsiders often lump different tribes of Picts into one generic category.

At least part of the mystique about the endless Pictish Wilderness is that the Picts are only part of what collectively contributes to the mystique and danger of the area. Having not played the base game, before, but as one who may buy the game just to play your mod, I don't have familiarity with how the core game and battle sequences work. Would it be possible to have wild animals that also fight side by side with the Picts? Or which might attack both sides, Picts and outsiders, in a given battle - particularly in a forested area?

I think that the Pictish Wilderness should be an area shrouded in mystery - many mysteries. To enter it, there should be a sense of great trepidation. It is a land of great superstition, and creatures of most any type could be found there, as it should be largely unexplored by outsiders.

If you base the Picts off of North American or South American Indian tribes, then let it be the tribes with their myths come to life, to a large degree. Bring the land, itself, alive, if possible. Perhaps have areas of quicksand. It shouldn't be immediately visible or detectable, and yet cost some troops attacking in Pictish territory. The Picts could be immune to such, since they know the land.

If you include Pictish attacks on other players' holdings/areas, then the Picts should seem countless in number, ceaseless in attacking. No rest from the Picts, especially if they try to reclaim Pictish lands.

Maybe some of the Pictish tribes live in tepees and others live in caves. Having some totems or totem poles for variety's sake could help to set the atmosphere.

[christof139]

In the books and Howard's other writings, the Picts did eventually unite into a large Confederacy, but during Conan's time this was only attempted by an Evil Pictish Shaman type of fellow I do believe, forget the name though.

I think Howard states or implies that sometimes a couple or few tribes of Picts would unite to raid Aquilonia or other Pictish tribes.

The great Confederacy of the Picts came after Conan's time supposedly I do believe.

Chris

[Taranaich]

Rather than calling the Picts "The Pictish Confederacy," which makes them sound too civilized, rather than as a bunch of tribes that war upon one another, why not call them simply "The Picts," or "The Savage Picts," or "The Pictish Wilderness?"

I've thought long and hard about it, and ultimately I think the The Pictish Confederacy is probably the one I'm going with. In addition to Howard calling large groups of Picts confederacy (he says the Wolf Picts were a Confederacy of smaller tribes, for instance), I think calling them something like "The Picts" or "The Pictish Wilderness" makes the Picts look kind of a united front. Calling them the Pictish Confederacy just says that they're a collection of allied tribes of Picts, and allows for independent settlements to be considered "Picts" too.

This is not final, though: I'm planning on doing something similar for the Cimmerians, Aesir and Vanir, but I don't know what the best naming convention would be for them as yet. I might eventually just go back with the simple "The Picts" if I can't get anything worked out for the other nations.


Outsiders might well lump all Picts together, but the individual Pictish tribes would be distinguishable to other Picts, even if outsiders couldn't tell them apart in all instances. For that matter, why not have some Pictish tribes that look very, very similar to one another, even identical, yet have different stats? This could help to account for why outsiders often lump different tribes of Picts into one generic category.

Very much my intention. Each Pictish region has it's own tribe of Picts, who are largely similar, but will have different patterns which would be just a chaotic mess to outsiders, but easily distinguishable to other Picts. Thus we'll have Wolf Picts, Eagle Picts, Hawk Picts etc, in addition to their chosen Braves.


At least part of the mystique about the endless Pictish Wilderness is that the Picts are only part of what collectively contributes to the mystique and danger of the area. Having not played the base game, before, but as one who may buy the game just to play your mod, I don't have familiarity with how the core game and battle sequences work. Would it be possible to have wild animals that also fight side by side with the Picts? Or which might attack both sides, Picts and outsiders, in a given battle - particularly in a forested area?

The Pictish Wilderness will be a dangerous place to be sure: most non-barbarian nations who stray in will suffer casualties from disease, wild animals, poison and natural dangers like quicksand, swamps and gulleys. This will be represented by attrition: every turn an army stands in a Pictish region, their numbers will start to fall as their soldiers are lost to the dangers of the Wilderness. The Picts will obviously not lose soldiers since they know the land: barbarians such as the Cimmerians will lose the occassional warrior, but not to the extent of a civilized nation such as Aquilonia. The only safe places for civilized folk will be forts and settlements, so they must establish or conquer them so they don't lose all their men. Of course, forts are only a temporary measure against the Picts, and as soon as you take a Pictish settlement, you're likely to be crowded with hordes of savages.

Animals will fight with the Picts, either as trained creatures like war wolves and bull apes, or as summoned by powerful shamans like the Ghost Snake and Sabretooth.

[Senta]

great idea for a mod Taranaich! i just only read about it on conan.com

couple of suggestions:

Aquilonian unit: western provinces rangers (as seen in Beyond the black River)

Aquilonian unit: Black Dragons, King's bodyguard.

Pictish unit: bloodcrazed painted berserker type unit?

variety is a key ;) i am not a texturer, but if you need concept art, let me know. especially for Black Dragons.

[Taranaich]

Aquilonia will indeed have rangers, as well as borderers. The Black Dragons will serve as the Aquilonian general's retinue, although more squadrons can be recruited (though at considerable cost to the taxpayer).

The Picts will have some pretty tough units, but the most terrifying of the lot will be the Shark Braves. Shark Picts are generally fanatical and bloodthristy, but certain Shark Picts embark on a rite of passage which requires them to kill a shark: such a warrior would be deadly and formidable indeed!

[Senta]

good stuff, can't wait for it. like i said, if you need any concept art, let me know.

[Galapagos]

I just look forward to this mod,it sounds so wonderful.If you need some help from a noob,you know where to find me...:laugh4: :laugh4:

[Dimeola]

what about legends......the myths of Hyboria.......writeups about the economy, politics, religion.....paint the world in rich hues, immerse us in the splendor. Even and esp the military traditions, strategy and tactics of the kingdoms.

[Taranaich]

what about legends......the myths of Hyboria.......writeups about the economy, politics, religion.....paint the world in rich hues, immerse us in the splendor. Even and esp the military traditions, strategy and tactics of the kingdoms.

Wouldn't you know, I've taken a short break from the skinning to do exactly that!

I'm planning on giving the mod some strong RPG overtones, in that you feel like you're "playing the role" of the faction leader, to help immerse in the world. How you play the game is up to you, naturally, but I think it would be fun to give the generals and captains more character, so you feel more connected to them. There will be a lot of interesting and fun traits, like "enjoys the poetry of Rinaldo (is liked by the people but is a terrible administrator)", "dabbles with the Lotus (reduces certain traits that require concentration) and "prefers buxom women (meaning princesses with the "buxom" trait will be more likely to manipulate him)"

I've been working on biographies and organizing traits/ancillaries for the faction leaders, so that you can either "role-play" as the leader, or even take the role of Mitra, Set, Crom or any other deity to "influence" events if you like. Obviously some characters like Conan and Tarascus are well-established, but some characters will require a little more imagination to realise. I'll be posting a few more previews regarding the faction leaders, religion, mercenaries and special buildings within the month.

[GrnEyedDvl]

Atlantis:

Conan is supposed to be a descendant of King Kull of Atlantis. I dont know if you have read King Kull by Howard or not but its in much the same style. One idea might be to include Atlantis and use the World is Round event.

[Taranaich]

I don't think it would be possible to include Atlantis or the rest of the Thurian Age into the mod, considering the Great Cataclysm changed the entire geography of the world, with Atlantis sinking beneath the waves and the Pictish Isles becoming the Rockies, to say nothing of the Thurian/Hyborian mainland. If everything goes well, I might make a mini "Thurian Age" provincial map with some of the nations renamed (Cimmerians = Atlanteans, Aquilonians = Valusians, Lemurians = Hyrkanians etc) and some new provinces, just as an interesting extra.

Fear not though, Kull and Atlantis will be referenced in the mod in some fashion. The "World is Round" event might be useful for the nameless continents and islands across the sea Conan goes to late in his life, which would be populated by mysterious and eldritch civilizations as yet unknown...

[Helgi]

Just an idea for everyone interested in this mod and hope that Taranaich my like the idea:rtwyes: , If you have a copy of the first Conan Book, around page 21; there should be a chapter called "The Hyborian Age, Part 1". Check it out and Taranaich, see if (you Choose or like) you can incorporate that into the mod?
:england: :france: :denmark:

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Like someone mentioned earlier, the event of losing troops in pictish areas could be portrayed as natural disasters which affect only the unit, and add the plague, furthermore you could also add it to the traits like in europa barbarorum, but you would have to ask them about that :beam:

[Taranaich]

Just an idea for everyone interested in this mod and hope that Taranaich my like the idea:rtwyes: , If you have a copy of the first Conan Book, around page 21; there should be a chapter called "The Hyborian Age, Part 1". Check it out and Taranaich, see if (you Choose or like) you can incorporate that into the mod?
:england: :france: :denmark:

Oh yes. :2thumbsup: I'm basing the entire mod on The Hyborian Age essay, treating it as a factual document by the "noted scholar of the Hyborian Age" Robert E. Howard.


Like someone mentioned earlier, the event of losing troops in pictish areas could be portrayed as natural disasters which affect only the unit, and add the plague, furthermore you could also add it to the traits like in europa barbarorum, but you would have to ask them about that :beam:

Excellent idea. Since this is my first mod and I'm new, I should probably be more open to borrowing stuff from other mods (with their permission, naturally), but I'd like to try and implement it on my own before asking others. Hopefully I can get it put in myself.

[Spartan198]

I'm an avid Conan fan,so I figured I'd add a few suggestions/corrections -
(1) This might seem a little far-fetched,but since the Hyborian Age took place during the last Ice Age,you might consider replacing elephants with mammoths?
(2) Corinthia,Brythunia,the Border Kingdom,and Hyrkania weren't unified kingdoms,but loose confederations of city-states. How that would play into a Total War faction,I don't really know at the moment (maybe a higher chance of settlements rebelling than in a unified kingdom?).
(3) Personally,Aquilonia always felt more Greco-Roman to me,so maybe compliment its medieval culture with some Greco-Roman elements such as Legionary infantry?
(4) If you want to remain as Howardian as possible,cut Acheron from you list of possible factions. The Acheronean Empire fell some 3 millenia before Conan's time.

If you want a near tell-all of Conan and his world,get a book called "Conan: the Ultimate Guide to the World's Most Savage Barbarian". It'll tell you just about everything REH wrote on everything Hyborian

[Ged]

If you need any ideas for some maps, I found a site which has a fair few maps of the Hyborian World.
http://hyboria.xoth.net/maps/index.htm :beam:

[Taranaich]

Greetings SpartanGlory, good to see another fan of big C!


(1) This might seem a little far-fetched,but since the Hyborian Age took place during the last Ice Age,you might consider replacing elephants with mammoths?

I intend to include both. :2thumbsup: Howard refers to elephants a few times, implying that they're common in the lands of the Hyrkanians, which would mean anywhere west of Turan. Vendhya, Kosala, Iranistan, Turan, Hyrkania and Khitai will all be able to train elephants (Vendhya getting some particularly cool variations). However, Conan has also apparently seen a mastodon as according to Red Nails. Combined with the fact that the Hyborian Age has all manner of prehistoric beasties and it seems reasonable for mammoths to be around. Mammoths will be found in the northern reaches around the Vilayet, available to the Hyrkanians and Hyperboreans. Mastodons are more likely to be found in the Black Kingdoms and Pictish Wilderness.


Corinthia,Brythunia,the Border Kingdom,and Hyrkania weren't unified kingdoms,but loose confederations of city-states. How that would play into a Total War faction,I don't really know at the moment (maybe a higher chance of settlements rebelling than in a unified kingdom?).

There's extremely little information on the politics of these nations. The idea of them being confederacies of city-states is one created by the pastiches and comics, but because Howard explicitly refers to them as kingdoms I'm inclined to think of them as that. I think the idea of Corinthia being composed of city-states is because of a misunderstanding from Rogues in the House: the city Conan is in is referred to as "one of the city-states west of Zamora". On Howard's own map, immediately west of Zamora is Corinthia. While it would seem logical for the city state to then be in Corinthia, why didn't Howard just say so? Therefore, the implication is that the city-state of RitH is between Zamora and Corinthia, but too small or insignificant to be seen on the map.

However, I did like the idea of Corinthia & Brythunia being disunited, so in the mod those two nations will basically be composed of two "allied cities", with two independent cities in their territories. Uniting their territories will trigger an event which will boost the country's military and economy, but of course make them bigger targets for their bigger neighbours, and they're pretty likely to rebel when the going gets tough.

The Border Kingdom is basically a kingdom in name only, as most of the country is populated by outlaws and brigands, although it's no slouch militarily.

Hyrkania will be treated rather like Turan, except the cities will be on the far east, with nomadic tribes in the middle.


Personally,Aquilonia always felt more Greco-Roman to me,so maybe compliment its medieval culture with some Greco-Roman elements such as Legionary infantry?

Aquilonia will indeed have a few Greco-Roman elements, mostly on the campaign map: many buildings, officials and ancillaries will have a rather Romanesque feel. The military seems stolidly medieval, but a few remnants of Acheronian influence can be seen. I'm of the opinion that the Black Dragons and Black Legion are the modern evolution of Acheronian troops, as their version of the Praetorian Guard and Urban Cohorts respectively. Aquilonia will later have legions in the Hyborian Age, so they'll be available when a city and barracks becomes suitably advanced.


If you want to remain as Howardian as possible,cut Acheron from you list of possible factions. The Acheronean Empire fell some 3 millenia before Conan's time.

Indeed it did. The reason Acheron was in the "possible factions" list was because I was toying with the idea of an Acheronian sorcerer like Xaltotun being raised from the dead. Acheronians are apparently still around in not small numbers in the hills and dark places of Nemedia and Aquilonia, so it seemed possible for a resurgence of Acheronian patriotism in the wake of the Aquilonian-Nemedian war. However, I nixed that in favour of the Border Kingdom, I thought it would be better dealing in the "here and now" of the Hyborian Age.


If you want a near tell-all of Conan and his world,get a book called "Conan: the Ultimate Guide to the World's Most Savage Barbarian". It'll tell you just about everything REH wrote on everything Hyborian

I do have that book, it's a very good guide to the character and age, and Roy Thomas does a great job distinguishing the Howard from the pastiches.

[Spartan198]

I don't really have any modding experience or expertise,but I did start putting together a limited unit list for a possible "Hyboria: Total War" mod as kind of a sand box project. If you're interested,maybe I can convey some of my favorites here and you can look them over for ideas?
Also,I have excellent knowledge on military weaponry and equipment used by various cultures around the Mediterranean. If you have any questions,feel free to ask. I'd be happy to share any research with you.
And lastly,Wikipedia has an excellent article on the Hyborian Age that gives a detailed list of various cultures that the Hyborian kingdoms are patterned after. That might be of some use.

P.S. - Be sure to leave the south-eastern kingdom of Meru of your game map,as it was created by L. Sprague de Camp & Lin Carter,not REH.

[Taranaich]

I don't really have any modding experience or expertise,but I did start putting together a limited unit list for a possible "Hyboria: Total War" mod as kind of a sand box project. If you're interested,maybe I can convey some of my favorites here and you can look them over for ideas?

Sure thing, ideas are always good. I've already got a (sort of) unit list done, but I'd certainly be interested in seeing your ideas.


Also,I have excellent knowledge on military weaponry and equipment used by various cultures around the Mediterranean. If you have any questions,feel free to ask. I'd be happy to share any research with you.

Will do.


And lastly,Wikipedia has an excellent article on the Hyborian Age that gives a detailed list of various cultures that the Hyborian kingdoms are patterned after. That might be of some use.

Yup, I have that on the hard drive. It's a good reference.


P.S. - Be sure to leave the south-eastern kingdom of Meru of your game map,as it was created by L. Sprague de Camp & Lin Carter,not REH.

Meru will indeed not be appearing as a faction, neither will Uttara Kuru, Kambuja, Pathenia or anything like that. I *might* include some as regions or settlements to conquer, as even though Howard didn't invent them Uttara Kuru and Kambuja are vaguely Howardian, at least in name.

[Spartan198]

Most of my H:TW units are ripped right out of R:TW,but the following is a list of some of my favorite originals with a short description:

Aquilonia -
Bossonian archers - Lightly armored archers from the Aquilonian province of Bossonia. A number of the Conan stories mentioned the Bossonians as having quasi-legendary archers. They could be recruitable only in Bossonia,like how you could only recruit Rhodian slingers in the areas around Rhodes in R:TW.
Black Legion - Could be used as a field elite,opposite the Black Dragons as King's/General's Bodyguard,with both heavy infantry and cavalry regiments, like the Sacred Band of Carthage in R:TW.
Corinthia --
Levy,Phalanx,& Royal Halberbiers - An alternative to pikemen,using instead halberds over sarissas.
Armored Peltasts - Much like the Heavy Peltasts from R:TW,except they wear light chain or scale mail armor.
Picts --
Pictish Blood Maidens - The Picts are savage,and their women shouldn't be any different. Inspired mainly by Keara Knightly's appearence in the battle at the end of King Arthur.
Pictish Mercenaries - These could be recruitable by any faction (except Cimmeria) sharing a border with the Pictish Wilderness. Think of them like the gladiator units in R:TW. High fighting capacity,but low survivability and no armor.
Turan --
Turanian Light Spearmen - Lightly-armored defensive spearmen along the lines of Town Watch units,but also effective against cavalry with their spears and/or maybe the schiltrom formation.
Turanian Heavy Spearmen - Exact opposite of above. Clad in heavy mail or solid armor,armed with long pikes but limited in defense by the small size of their shields. Perhaps they could have "learned" the pike phalanx from neighboring Roman age countries?

Let me know what you think and I'll try to come up with some more.

[Taranaich]

Good ideas there SG!



Bossonian archers - Lightly armored archers from the Aquilonian province of Bossonia. A number of the Conan stories mentioned the Bossonians as having quasi-legendary archers. They could be recruitable only in Bossonia,like how you could only recruit Rhodian slingers in the areas around Rhodes in R:TW.

Bossonian archers will be in, definitely, and will only be available in the Bossonian Marches either as ZOR or mercenaries, like the Rhodian slingers. They will have pretty decent armour though, this was apparently instrumental in battles against the Shemites: they had longer range, but the Bossonian's better armour and morale turned the battle.


Black Legion - Could be used as a field elite,opposite the Black Dragons as King's/General's Bodyguard,with both heavy infantry and cavalry regiments, like the Sacred Band of Carthage in R:TW.

The Black Legion is split into infantry, cavalry and archer divisions, and can only be recruited in Tarantia, drawing from the cream of Gunderland, Poitain and the Bossonian Marches respectively to fight in the king's personal army. Black Dragons will be the general's bodyguard.


Levy,Phalanx,& Royal Halberbiers - An alternative to pikemen,using instead halberds over sarissas.

I have a halberd unit for the Corinthians called the Sacred Guard, and they'll also have access to regular Halberdiers/Halberd Militia.


Armored Peltasts - Much like the Heavy Peltasts from R:TW,except they wear light chain or scale mail armor.

Interesting idea.


Pictish Blood Maidens - The Picts are savage,and their women shouldn't be any different. Inspired mainly by Keara Knightly's appearence in the battle at the end of King Arthur.

I hadn't planned for a female unit among the Picts, since there isn't really much reference to them in a fighting situation. The AEsir, Vanir and Cimmerians do have a few references to women fighting, so it seems reasonable for the Picts to have women fighting too.


Pictish Mercenaries - These could be recruitable by any faction (except Cimmeria) sharing a border with the Pictish Wilderness. Think of them like the gladiator units in R:TW. High fighting capacity,but low survivability and no armor.

Since the Picts did find their way into mercenary armies in the later Hyborian Age I think this would be quite feasible. I'm not sure exactly how to make them recruitable by anyone except Cimmerians, but it's probably something to do with religion (some mercenaries are religion based like the Pilgrims and Ghazis) so that could be done.


Turanian Light Spearmen - Lightly-armored defensive spearmen along the lines of Town Watch units,but also effective against cavalry with their spears and/or maybe the schiltrom formation.

Turanian Heavy Spearmen - Exact opposite of above. Clad in heavy mail or solid armor,armed with long pikes but limited in defense by the small size of their shields. Perhaps they could have "learned" the pike phalanx from neighboring Roman age countries?

Both are in. The Heavy Spearmen don't have very long pikes, but to be frank with the nightmarishly powerful army I've given Turan I'd have to give them some weaknesses to give the other nations a chance! :sweatdrop:

Keep the ideas coming!

[Majestic7]

If you wish to include Acheron as a playable faction in the game, I think it is pretty far-stretched considering that it was destroyed thousands of years ago. However, how about making possible for Aquilonia or perhaps Nemedia to turn in to a reborn Acheron through building choices and scripts firing from them? That is what Xaltotun tried in the Hour of the Dragon, after all.

Do you plan to include special sites unique to certain provinces in the mod? How about artefacts such as the Serpent Ring of Set or the Heart of Ahriman?

[Taranaich]

If you wish to include Acheron as a playable faction in the game, I think it is pretty far-stretched considering that it was destroyed thousands of years ago. However, how about making possible for Aquilonia or perhaps Nemedia to turn in to a reborn Acheron through building choices and scripts firing from them? That is what Xaltotun tried in the Hour of the Dragon, after all.

Definitely a possibility. I might do the same for the lands controlled by the Khari and the mysterious Builders of the Green Cities.


Do you plan to include special sites unique to certain provinces in the mod? How about artefacts such as the Serpent Ring of Set or the Heart of Ahriman?

There will be special buildings and sites such as the Iron Tower & Traitor's Common for Aquilonia, the Black Pyramids for Stygia, the Scarlet Citadel for Koth and many more. Some will offer bonuses, others units, some a combination.

Artifacts will be ancillaries. The Heart of Ahriman will offer significant bonuses when fighting ancient cultures (Stygia, Kosala, Khitai, basically any that would have magic or monsters), as well as offer protection from magical attackers. The way this works is I'm replacing Inquisitors with Black Fiends, and piety will now be "magical power". Though Conan is naturally not a powerful sorcerer, when he rides to battle with the Heart he can counter pretty much any spell sent his way. Normally Hadrathus keeps the heart, but if the situation dictates it you can swap it over to Conan to maximise his magic-busting. I'll try to introduce a script so that if the carrier of an important object dies, it'll resurface the next turn, either to someone else in a faction in case of natural death, or to the person who killed the carrier.

The Serpent Ring of Set will will offer discounts to the cost of summoning monsters, protection from assassins and probably a whole bunch of other things. When I've gone through all the traits and goodies possible in the ancillary system I'll put up a proper "Traits & Ancillaries" thread.

[Majestic7]

There will be special buildings and sites such as the Iron Tower & Traitor's Common for Aquilonia, the Black Pyramids for Stygia, the Scarlet Citadel for Koth and many more. Some will offer bonuses, others units, some a combination.

There are certainly many mysterious locales that might be useful or dangerous for the factions possessing them... Island of the Black Ones, Dagoth Hill, Xapur the Fortified, Kutchemes, City of the Winged One, Vale of Lost Women and the island with the iron statues come to mind in an instant, but there are surely many, many more.


Artifacts will be ancillaries. The Heart of Ahriman will offer significant bonuses when fighting ancient cultures (Stygia, Kosala, Khitai, basically any that would have magic or monsters), as well as offer protection from magical attackers. The way this works is I'm replacing Inquisitors with Black Fiends, and piety will now be "magical power". Though Conan is naturally not a powerful sorcerer, when he rides to battle with the Heart he can counter pretty much any spell sent his way. Normally Hadrathus keeps the heart, but if the situation dictates it you can swap it over to Conan to maximise his magic-busting. I'll try to introduce a script so that if the carrier of an important object dies, it'll resurface the next turn, either to someone else in a faction in case of natural death, or to the person who killed the carrier.

Heh, how about making one of the goals of Stygia (or any sorcerous nation?) to get the Heart of Ahriman somehow and move the character having it to the Black Pyramids? It is implied that no living man knows all secrets of the fabled gem, but its power could bring back alive ancient sorcerers resting inside the pyramids, perhaps unlocking some sweet power (and horrible things Man Was Not Meant To Know, of course). Zamorra might want to do the same with Shadizar and the tombs of ancient Zhemri there.

[Taranaich]

There are certainly many mysterious locales that might be useful or dangerous for the factions possessing them... Island of the Black Ones, Dagoth Hill, Xapur the Fortified, Kutchemes, City of the Winged One, Vale of Lost Women and the island with the iron statues come to mind in an instant, but there are surely many, many more.

Most assuredly. :skull:


Heh, how about making one of the goals of Stygia (or any sorcerous nation?) to get the Heart of Ahriman somehow and move the character having it to the Black Pyramids? It is implied that no living man knows all secrets of the fabled gem, but its power could bring back alive ancient sorcerers resting inside the pyramids, perhaps unlocking some sweet power (and horrible things Man Was Not Meant To Know, of course). Zamorra might want to do the same with Shadizar and the tombs of ancient Zhemri there.

If it can be done in the engine, then that would be a cool idea. At the moment Stygia's victory conditions are to reclaim the lands of the Old Stygian Empire, but something like gaining the Heart would add an extra layer of intrigue. I'm toying with adding a rather Lovecraftian goal too, that of summoning Set himself to rule over the earth as he did back in ancient times. Naturally, such a Cthulhian event would be somewhat unpleasant for all humans. A similar goal might be included for Zamora (the Spider God), Kosala (Yajur) and Khitai (Yun), though they won't be game-enders in the same way, rather they would create bonuses by the summoning of said deities.

This could be an either/or deal so it doesn't require too much stress from the player, so one can either rule a Neo-Stygian empire with an iron fist, or doom humanity to a chaotic and hideous life of servitude under Set.

[Cadwalader]

I'm toying with adding a rather Lovecraftian goal too, that of summoning Set himself to rule over the earth as he did back in ancient times. Naturally, such a Cthulhian event would be somewhat unpleasant for all humans.

I'm all for that idea.

[keravnos]

Robert E. Howard wrote 700+ poems. I haven't read more than 5 of them, I must admit. :shame:

How about using ONLY work from R.E.H. in the quotes of the mod, but not just from his Conan works but all his work, including his poetry, wherever that applies?

[Spartan198]

Firstly,I apologize,but I haven't been on this site for a couple of days. With that aside,let's get down to business.

I found a color-shaded culture map of the continent (but can't remember where,at the moment) and it gave me a thought: why not include the unification of like-cultures as a secondary or optional campaign goal,such as unifying all Hellenic factions like Corinthia and Koth beneath a single crown? Barbarian Invasion did that with the two Roman factions. It could provide additional depth to the story,especially if you impliment the option of playing as a specific faction's leader.

[Taranaich]

Robert E. Howard wrote 700+ poems. I haven't read more than 5 of them, I must admit. :shame:

How about using ONLY work from R.E.H. in the quotes of the mod, but not just from his Conan works but all his work, including his poetry, wherever that applies?

Do you mean for the opening screens? Definitely. Some might not be 100% suitable (The boxing stories for instance), but his historical tales have some damn fine lines in them that would be great to include.

The quotes I use in the unit descriptions are more a way of explaining and rationalizing a unit's inclusion, as a way to show which units are definitely Howard canon and which are extrapolated. Therefore units like the Bossonian Archers will have a big piece of accompanying text so people know this was a big part of the Hyborian Age. For something like the Kothian Cataphract, however, there will either be an obscure reference to Kothian heavy cavalry or no quote at all, to show that it's not a unit necessarily described by Howard.


Firstly,I apologize,but I haven't been on this site for a couple of days. With that aside,let's get down to business.

Heh, don't worry, sometimes I'm not on the internet for days either. :beam: I probably will actually be off in the next few days getting my Shemite preview ready:smash:


I found a color-shaded culture map of the continent (but can't remember where,at the moment) and it gave me a thought: why not include the unification of like-cultures as a secondary or optional campaign goal,such as unifying all Hellenic factions like Corinthia and Koth beneath a single crown? Barbarian Invasion did that with the two Roman factions. It could provide additional depth to the story,especially if you impliment the option of playing as a specific faction's leader.

That's an idea. The unifying of similar cultures would be very interesting, since a lot of similar cultures are at loggerheads: the Meadow and Desert Shemites for instance. It would probably not be a victory condition per se, but a trigger event that adds benefits to the culture like a stronger economy and military bonuses, so it's desirable but not essential. Most victory conditions are pretty straightforward from the Hyborian Age, though the extent may vary: defeating the AEsir would be a reasonable victory condition for the Vanir, but conquering Stygia would be another.

ATM I haven't clearly decided on Koth's victory conditions, although it'll probably include conquering a lot of nations. Corinthia and Ophir will probably on Koth's "hit list" though, and I might include a trigger event for that. Koth, Corinthia and Ophir are part of the first generation Hyborian kingdoms, which is why they have a few more Greco-Roman overtones than straight Medieval ones.

[Majestic7]

This could be an either/or deal so it doesn't require too much stress from the player, so one can either rule a Neo-Stygian empire with an iron fist, or doom humanity to a chaotic and hideous life of servitude under Set.

I for one welcome our new scaly overlords! Yes, it would be very nice to have both "mundane" and "magical" victory condition for Stygia, either of which can be reached by the player separately. How about combining the Heart of Ahriman to raising Set? For example, the player needs to steal the Heart and take it to Khemi where the Black Pyramids are. There it will be used to resurrect Giant-kings, who will tell how to arrange a mass sacrifice to wake Set/Yig from its slumber. Then the player needs to enslave/exterminate enough people, representing massive drive to collect enough sacrifices for an epic bloodbath required for a such world-shaking ritual.


Robert E. Howard wrote 700+ poems. I haven't read more than 5 of them, I must admit.

Unfortunately they seem to be quite hard to find. I've only found and read three online - Cimmeria, Road of Kings and Song of Mad Minstrel. Those all contain passages that might be useful, though. I wish I could find more, they are useful as RPG material without any modifications - they could well be poems sung by minstrels in Hyboria.

[keravnos]

Broken Crescent has begun research for Kara Khitai Khanate...

It may come in handy in the future :yes:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134104

[Spartan198]

Still working on unit ideas for you at this time,but I was curious about a couple things.
(1) How were you planning on presenting the Barachan Isles? An independent settlement or rebel city? Or had the thought of making them a seperate pirate faction crossed your mind? If so,then conquering them could add a couple of unique ship classes to your arsenal. What do you think?
(2) I was also wondering something about Corinthia. Aside from the Sacred Guard (cool name,BTW),were you going to stick with pike phalangist units,or were you going to mix in some traditional hoplite units,as well? I was curious because I'm working on an idea for a unit of Spartan-esque hoplites (working on a suitable name).

[Taranaich]

I for one welcome our new scaly overlords!

Hah, I actually laughed out loud at that! :laugh4:


Yes, it would be very nice to have both "mundane" and "magical" victory condition for Stygia, either of which can be reached by the player separately. How about combining the Heart of Ahriman to raising Set? For example, the player needs to steal the Heart and take it to Khemi where the Black Pyramids are. There it will be used to resurrect Giant-kings, who will tell how to arrange a mass sacrifice to wake Set/Yig from its slumber. Then the player needs to enslave/exterminate enough people, representing massive drive to collect enough sacrifices for an epic bloodbath required for a such world-shaking ritual.

The Heart of Ahriman may well be an artefact necessary to the summoning of Set, along with a few other magical items and places. I don't know if it's possible to steal the heart without slaying one of the characters, but there might be a way around it through scripting. The bloodbath does indeed seem a requirement for mighty magic, as evidenced by Xaltotun's attempt to sacrifice the hundred thousand men at the Valley of Lions.


Unfortunately they seem to be quite hard to find. I've only found and read three online - Cimmeria, Road of Kings and Song of Mad Minstrel. Those all contain passages that might be useful, though. I wish I could find more, they are useful as RPG material without any modifications - they could well be poems sung by minstrels in Hyboria.

REH poetry is scandalously scarce, all the worse since his prose is so poetic as it is. I have a few good ones in old books though, some I'll certainly use.


Still working on unit ideas for you at this time,but I was curious about a couple things.
(1) How were you planning on presenting the Barachan Isles? An independent settlement or rebel city? Or had the thought of making them a seperate pirate faction crossed your mind? If so,then conquering them could add a couple of unique ship classes to your arsenal. What do you think?

The Barachans will be an independent settlement (which is pretty much the same thing as a rebel city, I just prefer that term over "rebel" which is a bit generic). The Barachans will have three mercenary units available, and I'll probably make a few ships too.


(2) I was also wondering something about Corinthia. Aside from the Sacred Guard (cool name,BTW),were you going to stick with pike phalangist units,or were you going to mix in some traditional hoplite units,as well? I was curious because I'm working on an idea for a unit of Spartan-esque hoplites (working on a suitable name).

There are a few traditional hoplites in the Corinthia thread. I'm kind of wary of including "Spartan" hoplites since they're just so well-known, it might be a bit jarring, but I'd be interested to see what you come up with.

[born2dive67]

will you use a mod progress sticky post, like what their using in broken crest so its easier to follow the progress you guys have made on the mod?

i love the ideas and the scope thats planned so far but its kinda hard to tell where your at on the mod

[Taranaich]

will you use a mod progress sticky post, like what their using in broken crest so its easier to follow the progress you guys have made on the mod?

Possibly, that would make things easier for anyone checking up, but it's hard for me to quantify in percentages how the mod's going. I've made an attempt below though.


i love the ideas and the scope thats planned so far but its kinda hard to tell where your at on the mod

Well, at the moment I'm doing the stuff that (I think) I'm most confident with, which is the skins and units. The campaign's a bigger beast to slay, not least since I have a *ton* of text work ahead of me, so at the moment the mod looks something like this:

Unit graphics: 45%
Unit stats: 15%
Unit descriptions: 50%
UI: 5%
Campaign map: 10%
Faction descriptions: 50%
Buildings: 10%

So going pretty well so far.:juggle2:

[born2dive67]

thanks for the update.

i use to be an avid reader of the Conan books and actually had started from reading the comic books. i look forward to playing this some time in the future and wish you the best of luck.

I did see something about the no movement points for a certain cimmerian unit and was thinking why not just have excellent attack stats, lower on the defense stat and the smallest unit sizes possible. the reason i thought this is because when the ice age comes the cimmerians are gonna get crushed between a rock and a hard space unless they could actually have a chance at taking other provinces, just a thought. plus with the unit sizes smaller it would give more of the feeling of village bands roaming and raiding.

same with the Vanir and aesir but just better armored and not as strong in attack, just unit size being smaller

these are just thoughts though and i dont mean to infringe on your ideas if any of this feels that way.

again thanks for the update and good luck, i will definetly be a lurker here looking forward to this mod.

umm p.s. lol would be great if it comes in a seperate folder and not overwrite the vanilla as i also have like 6 others mods i switch between, i mention this cause i saw nothing about this
:balloon2:

[Taranaich]

i use to be an avid reader of the Conan books and actually had started from reading the comic books. i look forward to playing this some time in the future and wish you the best of luck.

Cheers!


I did see something about the no movement points for a certain cimmerian unit and was thinking why not just have excellent attack stats, lower on the defense stat and the smallest unit sizes possible. the reason i thought this is because when the ice age comes the cimmerians are gonna get crushed between a rock and a hard space unless they could actually have a chance at taking other provinces, just a thought. plus with the unit sizes smaller it would give more of the feeling of village bands roaming and raiding.

Not all the Cimmerians will have zero movement points, just the clansmen and clanswomen. They are more intended as the garrison unit, with free and quick recruitment and upkeep at the expense of not moving out the settlement. This makes Cimmerian settlements extremely tough to conquer while not making the Cimmerians themselves gamebreakingly powerful. When the Ice comes, the event will trigger a script that will lift the movement point restriction, allowing the Cimmerians/AEsir/Vanir to start migrating.

Nonetheless, even without their clansmen and women, the Cimmerians will have a strong selection of units to enable them to conquer other provinces: the problem is that the nearest ones are populated with folk just as tough as they are! It's kind of the same situation as the Casse and Sweboz in Europa Barbarorum, where they're surrounded by extremely tough rebels to slow expansion.

The high attack/low defense paradigm is indeed the one I'll be using, and the AEsir/Vanir have slightly better armour and slower attack speed to reflect their more Nordic style of fighting.


these are just thoughts though and i dont mean to infringe on your ideas if any of this feels that way.

Not at all, I appreciate input and comments. :2thumbsup:


umm p.s. lol would be great if it comes in a seperate folder and not overwrite the vanilla as i also have like 6 others mods i switch between, i mention this cause i saw nothing about this
:balloon2:

At the moment I've just written it over the main game (easiest for me, my first mod and all, I'm still working out the kinks), but I plan to fully move it over to it's own folder when it comes closer to release. It would be somewhat rude of me to release a mod that requires a separate install of a 10gb game when other mods work fine in their own folders. :beam:

[Spartan198]

I was checking out your faction leader thread and it gave me an idea for family member bodyguard units: I haven't played M2TW yet,so I don't know that game's take on them,but Rome and BI bodyguard units were puny and pretty much useless aside from throwing away your general. How about, instead of small bands of 12 or so horsemen, you make the starting bodyguard count equal to that of the standard cavalry squadron count (27 at the lowest settings on the above games)? Maybe my tactics are just too infantry-based, but I always seem to waste family members because of this. (I find that a captain in charge of 27 horses seems to be far more useful than a general or king in charge of 12)

[Taranaich]

Oddly enough, just about every major battle in the Conan tales has the generals (usually they're the faction leader themselves) getting stuck right in to the fighting: Strabonus and Amalrus in Scarlet Citadel, Amalric and Tarascus in Hour of the Dragon, and naturally Conan himself are not afraid to get their armour splashed in blood. As such, expect generals to be much more useful as combatants in The Hyborian Age - Total War.:2thumbsup: They won't be ridiculously powerful (unless they're Conan, who will be very hard to kill or capture on the battlefield as per usual), but they'll certainly be as good combatants as their own elites.

The bodyguard units will be different depending on the faction, but here's a rough idea:

Hyborian general's bodyguards will be composed of elite heavy cavalry, usually the cream of the nation's chivalry: they'll likely have a small number of cavalry soldier, but not so small that they'd be useless in combat. There will be regional variations (Black Dragons for Aquilonia, Scarlet Dragons for Nemedia, Companions for Corinthia etc) but they'll more or less fulfill similar roles.

Eastern bodyguards are heavy horse archers armed with heavy bows and clad in strong armour, with a small number of soldiers like the Hyborians. Again, regional variations apply for the individual factions (Immortals for Iranistan, Solaks for Turan etc).

Barbarian bodyguards are heavy infantry, and slightly different based on the faction: Cimmerians have Arras Champions (Goidilic/Iberian-style scale armour, armed with claymores), Æsir and Vanir have Ásjarls and Vanjarls (scale armoured two-handed warhammers/swordsmen), and the Picts have Chosen Braves (warriors armed in pilfered or traded chain armour and Zingaran swords). They'll generally be as hearty and enthusiastic fighters as other infantry units, and indeed will probably be more effective at command when stuck in the fray.

Stygian generals are probably going to be chariot archers at some point assuming the chariot animations/models can be cracked, but until then they're heavy horse archers like the Easterners.

I should say I have *no clue* what Zamora's going to be like, but it'll certainly be interesting.

[Volkmar]

I'm getting anxious to play this game. You're truly a one of a kind modder first for wanting to do this all by yourself, and second for doing a good job on it.

[Spartan198]

General's Infantry Guard,huh? That's different, but definitely a cool idea. Props, my trans-Atlantic friend!:balloon2:

[Taranaich]

I'm getting anxious to play this game. You're truly a one of a kind modder first for wanting to do this all by yourself, and second for doing a good job on it.

You're far too kind. :sweatdrop: I probably would have worked on a Conan mod for Rome if I had more modding know-how at the time, but in retrospect there are lots of things in Medieval that I couldn't do in Rome, so it's turned out alright.

A faction preview for Turan is coming up: there are a lot of very different units in it since Turan's basically the Ottomans, Timurids, and Sassanids rolled into one unholy empire with might and grandeur echoed but dimly by the glories of later kings. :egypt:

[Spartan198]

Looking forward to it.

[Taranaich]

General's Infantry Guard,huh? That's different, but definitely a cool idea. Props, my trans-Atlantic friend!:balloon2:

Europa Barbarorum's Sweboz and Getae have infantry bodyguards, as well as the gaelic/germanic factions in Arthurian, so it isn't that original, but thanks anyway. :2thumbsup:

I'm probably going to give Vendhya (maybe Kosala and Khitai too) elephant bodyguards. There aren't any examples of Vendhya (or Kosala or Khitai) having war elephants, but since they're in the area now part of South East Asia which was infamous for their war elephants (the Mauryan, Bagan and Khmer Empires in particular) it seems a reasonable extrapolation, and I'd wager generals would make use of the higher vantage point an elephant offers.

[Cadwalader]

Who are you basing Zamora on?
If you played Sabaeans in Europa Barbarorum, did you see their general's bodyguards?

[Majestic7]

Barbarian bodyguards are heavy infantry, and slightly different based on the faction: Cimmerians have Arras Champions (Goidilic/Iberian-style scale armour, armed with claymores), Æsir and Vanir have Ásjarls and Vanjarls (scale armoured two-handed warhammers/swordsmen), and the Picts have Chosen Braves (warriors armed in pilfered or traded chain armour and Zingaran swords). They'll generally be as hearty and enthusiastic fighters as other infantry units, and indeed will probably be more effective at command when stuck in the fray.


How about making the Pictish bodyguard instead ultimate ambushers able to hide everywhere? Very high defense, frighten enemies but practically no armor at all, maybe very high javelin attack for a few throws (poisoned spears or something)? I think it is nowhere mentioned that Picts make use of looted armor - I rather had the idea that they despise Aquilonians for that. I mean, in Howards stories where picts are mentioned they have obviously won and killed a lot of Aquilonian soldiers but still haven't taken their armor in use, only their weapons at most. Besides, having an armored unit armed with swords in an army consisting of mostly ~naked ambushers seems a bit out of place, doesn't it? The picture I have of pictish warfare is that they never fight fair, always preferring ambushes and hit n' run tactics. If you plan to add optional military reforms in other factions, perhaps picts could have that choice too - to become more "civilized" through conquest of civilized lands at some point or stay true to their old style of warfare.

Edit - What comes to M2TW Kingdoms, I think there are three reasons to take the mod there. 1) Special abilities, this could be used for spells, 2) Somewhat control of reinforcing armies, this is just nice in gameplay and 3) Ability to build permanent forts, adds new strategic possibilities. However, I don't know if only three plus sides are worth the trouble.

[Spartan198]

Have you considered benefits for factions holding specific landmarks,like Mount Crom,the Skull Gate of Hyperborea,and the Great Wall of Khitai? Treating them as somewhat of a Howardian equivalent to the 7 Wonders of the Ancient World would seem logical. Holding Mount Crom,for example,could give a public order boost,or lower the amount of turns needed to train elite Cimmerian units. What do you think? :inquisitive:

[The Wicked]

Well hello to everybody ! Great mod !!
Here's a modding suggestion for Pike(especially Corinthian:verycool: ) and Halberd units...


Where you see for pike and halberd units they have the attribute "phalanx".

Delete it and replace it with shield_wall

Then under their secondary weapons, remove them. So you'll see...
stat_sec 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 25, 1

Change it to...
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1

The only thing i cannot find out is how to make them to take a defencive stance by pointing their pikes to the enemy when an enemy unit aproaches like all other units do.... and one other thing (maybe this is to much to be possible) When in defencive stance or when attacking (MAYBE ) the first 2,3,4 0r 5 (too much ) ranks pointing their pikes to the enemy and the rest pointing them to the air..(is this possible?)

Please try it and see the results

Cheers...!

(Unless you have find a better way:beam: then in that case if you are kind enough please tell me Thanx !!)

[Taranaich]

Who are you basing Zamora on?
If you played Sabaeans in Europa Barbarorum, did you see their general's bodyguards?

Zamora is a bit tricky: the Zamorians seem to be a mix of slavic and early modern Mexico(!), so I'm basing them on the great Balkan nations of Hungary, Bulgaria and Wallachia, with a little bit of Spanish thrown in. Some Howard scholars think that Zingara (which is a term for a female gypsy) and Zamora (the name of a Leonese province in Spain) got their names mixed up, so Zingara is the "Spain" and Zamora the "Mexico" of the Hyborian Age. Or maybe Howard did it deliberately to mix the two countries up, it's a source of much speculation.

The Sabeans bodyguard are very nice, but they're reserved for the mini-faction of the Sabateans, an independent city-state south of Iranistan which is the seat of much sorcery and devilment.


How about making the Pictish bodyguard instead ultimate ambushers able to hide everywhere?

Would be ideal, except a general's unit can't hide. Game mechanics or something, though if there's a way around it it would be great.


I think it is nowhere mentioned that Picts make use of looted armor - I rather had the idea that they despise Aquilonians for that. I mean, in Howards stories where picts are mentioned they have obviously won and killed a lot of Aquilonian soldiers but still haven't taken their armor in use, only their weapons at most.

There are references to Picts trading with the Zingarans in a few stories and the Hyborian Age essay:

"West of here, many marches, lies the seashore. Ships from Zingara occasionally come and trade weapons and ornaments and wine to the coastal tribes for skins and copper ore and gold dust" - Beyond the Black River

Since the Zingarans have a habitual grudge with Aquilonia and particularly Poitain, it's kind of appropriate for some Zingaran barons to trade weapons to some savages that they know will make trouble for their rivals while getting some nice trinkets as a bonus. I'm sure the Picts wouldn't have such qualms stealing Aquilonian weapons and mail, but they wouldn't encase themselves in it by any means - at least not until the reforms.


Besides, having an armored unit armed with swords in an army consisting of mostly ~naked ambushers seems a bit out of place, doesn't it?

Well, by armoured I mean basically just a mail shirt and maybe vambraces, nothing that would sacrifice their mobility too much. Besides, the Picts do have swords as according to Beyond the Black River, but I'm treating them as the exception rather than the rule.


The picture I have of pictish warfare is that they never fight fair, always preferring ambushes and hit n' run tactics. If you plan to add optional military reforms in other factions, perhaps picts could have that choice too - to become more "civilized" through conquest of civilized lands at some point or stay true to their old style of warfare.

The Picts definitely prefer guerilla tactics over field engagements, and most of their units will be highly mobile with good attack but low defense and no armour. Skirmish with the enemy, charge them, retreat, skirmish, charge, retreat seems to be their modus operandi in The Black Stranger where a Pictish siege is described. So mobility is the key for the Picts, as well as ambushing and navigating forest terrain - which the Aquilonians have some difficulty in.

The Pictish Reforms of the later Hyborian Age could be started early by an enthusiastic player by research and expansion, but an important facet is that no matter how many castles they conquer or cities they acquire, the Pict always remains the eternal savage:

"Conquest and the acquiring of wealth altered not the Pict; out of the ruins of the crushed civilization no new culture arose phoenix-like. The dark hands which shattered the artistic glories of the conquered never tried to copy them. Though he sat among the glittering ruins of shattered palaces and clad his hard body in the silks of vanquished kings, the Pict remained the eternal barbarian, ferocious, elemental, interested only in the naked primal principles of life, unchanging, unerring in his instincts which were all for war and plunder, and in which arts and the cultured progress of humanity had no place." - The Hyborian Age


Have you considered benefits for factions holding specific landmarks,like Mount Crom,the Skull Gate of Hyperborea,and the Great Wall of Khitai? Treating them as somewhat of a Howardian equivalent to the 7 Wonders of the Ancient World would seem logical. Holding Mount Crom,for example,could give a public order boost,or lower the amount of turns needed to train elite Cimmerian units. What do you think? :inquisitive:

There will be landmarks, buildings and wonders that function in this way: for example, the Scarlet Citadel give public a order bonus/happiness deduction due to terror, as well as discounts in training demons and magic-related technologies. Things like that.


Well hello to everybody ! Great mod !!
Here's a modding suggestion for Pike(especially Corinthian:verycool: ) and Halberd units...

I tried the shield wall, but the lack of defensive animation is kind of crippling when used for units to defend against cavalry. I do use it for aggressive pike units though, it's pretty awesome having pikemen charge like that.:beam:

[keravnos]

At some time in the far future a certain "indian influenced" (cough Vendhya, Kosala) state will be created.

Some sources for that far off day.

https://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3394/southindianarmouraj7.th.jpg (https://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=southindianarmouraj7.jpg)

and

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=133038

For some similar units.

[The Wicked]

I tried the shield wall, but the lack of defensive animation is kind of crippling when used for units to defend against cavalry. I do use it for aggressive pike units though, it's pretty awesome having pikemen charge like that.:beam:
Well look What those guys in BC have done to the ERE pikemen great animation ...

[Taranaich]

Well look What those guys in BC have done to the ERE pikemen great animation ...

Of course BC are also much more advanced modders than I am.

Thanks for the text keravnos: Vendhya will likely run the gamut of Indian-style units (longbowmen, Kshatryas, and of course a good number of elephants).

Turan is edging closer to an official preview, but like Koth it's surprisingly difficult for me to find something I'm satisfied with. Most of the core units are done though.

[Spartan198]

I know your Turan preview is coming up soon (and am still looking forward to it),but I was wondering if maybe you'd let me know what kingdoms you're focusing on and what each's historical model(s) will be? That way,we can both be on the same page as to what types of units you want for said faction,and I don't drop you unit ideas that flow against the current,so to speak,and end up useless. :book:

How about including King Kull and the Atlantean Sword as a couple types of ancilliaries? King Kull could be considered a type of "legendary hero" trait that appears in,for example,King Conan's retinue list that gives a massive morale or attack boost,and the Atlantean Sword could have a somewhat similar effect that Excalibur had in Barbarian Invasion (but I can't quite remember what it is at the moment,because I've only attained it once a long time ago and haven't gotten it since,but it seems like it might have been some sort of heroic trait or battle skill).

Unit ideas:
Barachan Pirate Mercenaries - Unarmored light infantry that uses a missile weapon,maybe a harpoon,before charging. Though their defense rating would be low,they could either have high hitpoints or be dirt cheap to hire and maintain as a balance.
Argossean Gladiator Units - If my memory serves me correctly,a few of REH's stories mention Argos having Roman-esque gladiatorial games. Maybe a gladiator unit or two would compliment Argos' unit roster? This is one of my areas of expertise,so if you think it feels appropriate for the culture,let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.
Mercenary Warships - This is somewhat of a wildcard,because I'm not sure how the mechanics would work,if possible at all. I've always played Total War with the somewhat frusterating aspect of balancing out production of ground and naval forces,and always wished I could hire pirate ships or something as an interim navy.

Edit: Just out of curiousity,what's your stance on non-REH characters like Janissa the warrior-woman,Karela the Red Hawk,and Red Sonja (yeah,I know Sonja's copyrighted - just an example)?I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be included,but I'm only curious of your stance,mod-wise,toward them.

[Taranaich]

I know your Turan preview is coming up soon (and am still looking forward to it),but I was wondering if maybe you'd let me know what kingdoms you're focusing on and what each's historical model(s) will be? That way,we can both be on the same page as to what types of units you want for said faction,and I don't drop you unit ideas that flow against the current,so to speak,and end up useless. :book:

Certainly, here's a rough model of the factions for the first release:

Aquilonia = Medieval France / Imperial Rome
Nemedia = Holy Roman Empire / Imperial Rome
Koth = The Byzantines
Argos = Argos / Medieval Italy
Zingara = Medieval Spain / Classical Iberians
Corinthia = Corinth / Carinthia
Ophir = Medieval Italy / Ptolemaic Egypt
Brythunia = Medieval Poland / Dark Age Britain and Classical Galatia
Hyperborea = Medieval Russia / Medieval Finland
The Border Kingdom = Medieval Anglo-Scottish Border country
The Cimmerians = Dark Age Gaels
The Æsir = Dark Age Norse
The Vanir = Dark Age Norse
The Picts = Cavemen / East-coast Native Americans
Pelishtia = Ancient Mesopotamia
The Zuagir = Pre-Islamic Arabia / Moors
Zamora = The Roma people, particularly the Gitanos of Iberia and the Kalderash of the Balkans / Pre-Columbian South American civilizations
Stygia = Ancient Egypt :egypt:
Turan = Ottoman Turks / Timurid Empire

When two inspirations are listed, the first is the dominant one, the second being either complementary or superficial.

I'm not entirely sure of Zamora yet, the scholars I'm chatting to haven't gotten back to me on it, but they're definitely Roma. I'm tentatively giving them a gleaning of the Moche culture due to their worship of a Spider God, but it's not permanent.

Also, don't worry about suggesting units that wouldn't fit with my own outlook: just because they wouldn't fit for one faction doesn't mean they wouldn't be great for another. The only soldiers that wouldn't really fit in the Hyborian Age are those with guns, and even they might make it in if replaced with a crossbow.:beam:


How about including King Kull and the Atlantean Sword as a couple types of ancilliaries? King Kull could be considered a type of "legendary hero" trait that appears in,for example,King Conan's retinue list that gives a massive morale or attack boost,and the Atlantean Sword could have a somewhat similar effect that Excalibur had in Barbarian Invasion (but I can't quite remember what it is at the moment,because I've only attained it once a long time ago and haven't gotten it since,but it seems like it might have been some sort of heroic trait or battle skill).

Aspects of Kull and Kull's Thurian Age will definitely be in the mod, since there are plenty of such things in the Conan stories (the Aquilonian city of Shamar is believed to have been built before Atlantis sank, for example), so a few trinkets of the Thurian Age might make their way into the game. "Legendary Ancestor" is a really neat idea actually, and ties in well with the ideas of bloodlines: although I'm not sure Conan is a direct descendent of Kull, there's nothing stopping him boasting of descent once he learns about him. :beam:


Barachan Pirate Mercenaries - Unarmored light infantry that uses a missile weapon,maybe a harpoon,before charging. Though their defense rating would be low,they could either have high hitpoints or be dirt cheap to hire and maintain as a balance.

The Barachans are surprisingly well equipped - there are pikemen with cuirasses and burgonets, longbowmen with leather jerkins and helms, and the usual unarmoured sword-swinging pirates one would expect. Your description fits the latter nicely (I even have them hurling harpoons!), and the two others would be specialist troops you only get by conquering Tortage (or if you're Argos, who use them as privateers)


Argossean Gladiator Units - If my memory serves me correctly,a few of REH's stories mention Argos having Roman-esque gladiatorial games. Maybe a gladiator unit or two would compliment Argos' unit roster? This is one of my areas of expertise,so if you think it feels appropriate for the culture,let me know and I'll see what I can come up with.

Howard doesn't explicitly mention any gladiators in Argos, but they do fit quite well with the polyglot swarthiness and brutality I had in mind for Argos' more rugged and ungentlemanly units. Since Argos has somewhat relaxed laws regarding trade with pirates, I can certainly imagine pit-fights or deathmatches being quite popular in the darker corners of Messantia.


Mercenary Warships - This is somewhat of a wildcard,because I'm not sure how the mechanics would work,if possible at all. I've always played Total War with the somewhat frusterating aspect of balancing out production of ground and naval forces,and always wished I could hire pirate ships or something as an interim navy.

I think Mercenary warships are a must for landlocked nations, since constructing a fleet to confront even a smaller maritime power would take time: hiring out pirate or Free Company fleets would give them a leg-up.


Edit: Just out of curiousity,what's your stance on non-REH characters like Janissa the warrior-woman,Karela the Red Hawk,and Red Sonja (yeah,I know Sonja's copyrighted - just an example)?I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be included,but I'm only curious of your stance,mod-wise,toward them.

I've decided to take a hard-line stance on non-REH characters and chose not to include them. This just keeps things simple, so that the only characters, soldiers, places and events are either REH's own, or ones I made up. This keeps things simple copyright wise and also maintains a sense of integrity when I disagree with a certain pastiche's views on a nation or character. So no Red Sonja, Janissa, Karela or other characters, sorry to say. There are some characters I really liked though - Fafnir Demonhand is one of my favourite Conan characters not written by Howard - but it would be unfair to "pick and choose", so there it is.

[Spartan198]

Ah,thanks. This helps quite a bit.

PS - So the works of REH are public domain Scotland? I'm only curious because there's a big controversy about it here in the States. From the last I heard,the status was still up in the air. It really stinks (sorry,I don't mean to jump off subject).

PPS - You've got states on your list that correspond to the Reinassance (sp?) period,so REH's Red Sonya (with a "Y",not a "J") of Rogantino wouldn't necessarily be off-limits. Really,all you'd need to do is change her pistols over for hand-held crossbows.

Edit - Again,out of curiousity,what does that phrase at the bottom of your posts,beneath "The Hyborian Age: Total War",translate to,if you don't mind me asking?

[Taranaich]

PS - So the works of REH are public domain Scotland? I'm only curious because there's a big controversy about it here in the States. From the last I heard,the status was still up in the air. It really stinks (sorry,I don't mean to jump off subject).

Under UK law, an artist's work becomes public domain 70 years after the death of the author, so Howard's works are all public domain in Scotland. I think there's a similar setup for Australia, hence why they have his work on their Project Gutenberg. The US controversy is pretty complicated, not least due to Red Sonja LLC's absurd actions against Paradox, but hopefully it'll be resolved this year.


PPS - You've got states on your list that correspond to the Reinassance (sp?) period,so REH's Red Sonya (with a "Y",not a "J") of Rogantino wouldn't necessarily be off-limits. Really,all you'd need to do is change her pistols over for hand-held crossbows.

I'm hesitant to take Howard's non-Hyborian characters and put them in a Hyborian setting straight, to maintain the integrity of the tales they originate in as Howard imagined. However, taking Howard's non-Hyborian characters as inspiration is another matter entirely, and I fully intend on homaging them in some form.

This works well with Howard's James Allison stories, where the bedridden 20th Century Texan recounts past incarnations as mighty Æsir warriors from prehistory, so I thought I'd fill out some factions with the "progenitors" of other Howard heroes: Bran Mak Morn for the Picts, Cormac Mac Art for the Cimmerians, Cormac Fitzgeoffrey for the Border Kingdom, etc. Red Sonya would thus be ripe for a Hyperborean ancestor, especially since Medieval allows for unique generals like in Alexander.

Conan and a few other important figures will have unique models on the battlefield, as opposed to a generic family member model - I've also introduced random captains too, to break the monotony of the same chap fielding every battle (and they have shields too!) This way you can have Conan himself cutting bloody swathes through the enemy with a big freaking axe, as opposed to the sword and shield of other Aquilonian generals. I think this would also allow female leaders like Sancha, Olivia and Yasmina, though I'd have to figure something out about the male voice and wedding thing. Maybe a "Female Monarch" trait to prevent marriages or something.


Edit - Again,out of curiousity,what does that phrase at the bottom of your posts,beneath "The Hyborian Age: Total War",translate to,if you don't mind me asking?

It is better to try than to hope. Old family motto. :yes:

[born2dive67]

ok been a little over a month now, think its time for a new update? :D

your really :sweatdrop: me on wondering how the progress is going lol

i am rally looking forward to this mod

[born2dive67]

rally was to be really

[Taranaich]

Have you checked the Turan preview b2d?

Mod progress so far now:

Unit graphics: 50%
Unit stats: 20%
Unit descriptions: 50%
UI: 5%
Campaign map: 10%
Faction descriptions: 50%
Buildings: 10%

Yeah, not much done yet. Still getting over the conjunctivitis, but I can see better for longer now before needing eyedrops, so steadily getting back into the groove.

Next preview will likely be Argos, which will be a blend of (very) Ancient Greece with the Mediterranean city-states of the Renaissance. Plus lots of Pirates! :skull:

[Helgi]

What is the link to that article?

[Spartan198]

Glad to hear you're beginning to feel better. :2thumbsup:

just recently got Medieval II (so I'm all set for your first release when the time comes),and I was wondering a couple things: (1) Will we be able to choose the option of playing as a specific faction leader,in addition to the usual god-like playstyle where you simply play along as your family just multiplies,dies,multiplies,dies,etc.,etc.,etc.? (2) Will you be carrying over things like merchant and princess use and different types of settlements (i.e.,fortresses and large towns)? I really liked those two aspects of Medieval II.

Also,including elements like allowing the player to choose which queen or princess (or even slave girl?) his faction leader weds (choosing for Conan to wed Olivia or Yasmina,instead of Zenobia,for example) could add to the already-present RPG elements that are common in Total War games and affect the types of traits and ancillaries the individual recieves,which in turn affects his command,loyalty,influence,etc..

[Taranaich]

What is the link to that article?

The Turan preview? Here you go. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=98294)


just recently got Medieval II (so I'm all set for your first release when the time comes)

I recommend Stainless Steel and Broken Crescent while you wait, they're particularly awesome. :2thumbsup:


(1) Will we be able to choose the option of playing as a specific faction leader,in addition to the usual god-like playstyle where you simply play along as your family just multiplies,dies,multiplies,dies,etc.,etc.,etc.?

Not sure what you mean: do you mean like in Alexander where you just play as that character until the game ends? Or do you mean choose a faction leader out of a group?


(2) Will you be carrying over things like merchant and princess use and different types of settlements (i.e.,fortresses and large towns)? I really liked those two aspects of Medieval II.

Definitely. Merchants will be much more worthwhile to recruit, with each resource being far more lucrative (i.e. a few hundred lunas per turn as opposed to a few dozen), so that even if an evil Shemite acquires your merchant's assets, you'd still have gathered a good amount of cash. Pelishtia will have the best merchants, and usually will dominate trade in the West.

Princesses will be a bit more effective too, since most princesses of the Hyborian Age were on the pretty side, but to balance this out their ethnicity will be important in regards to suitors and diplomacy: Pelishtim will marry Argosseans happily, less so with Stygians and Kothians, and will object strongly to marrying a Zuagir. I'm not sure how to approach barbarian princesses yet, since I doubt a Cimmerian lass would take kindly to being told to marry some southern softie (and as Conan said, "We do not sell our children"), but perhaps with other Cimmerians she would.


Also,including elements like allowing the player to choose which queen or princess (or even slave girl?) his faction leader weds (choosing for Conan to wed Olivia or Yasmina,instead of Zenobia,for example) could add to the already-present RPG elements that are common in Total War games and affect the types of traits and ancillaries the individual recieves,which in turn affects his command,loyalty,influence,etc..

That would be awesome, but I'm not sure how possible it is. I had planned for Conan to be already married to Zenobia at the start of the game, but choice might be good. If it's possible I'll look into it.:2thumbsup:

[Helgi]

[quote=keravnos]

https://img409.imageshack.us/img409/3394/southindianarmouraj7.th.jpg (https://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=southindianarmouraj7.jpg)

Taranaich, the article above, I had meant, thank you though:sorry:

[Spartan198]

Not sure what you mean: do you mean like in Alexander where you just play as that character until the game ends? Or do you mean choose a faction leader out of a group?

That option would provide a good degree more difficulty in the form of a time limit (i.e.,conquer X number of settlements before Y amount of turns) for anyone looking for a real challenge (the Alexander campaign was difficult,but undoubtedly the most rewarding when completed,despite the fact that you had to conquer virtually the whole map). And I've always found that family members in the regular style of gameplay just die off relatively too quick to be of extended use (and I hate it when they die of old age in the middle of conquest and leave the army to a captain in charge of a very vulnerable infantry unit!)

Alternatively,if the above doesn't seem to mix,would it be at all possible to make the passage of time per each turn selectable from six months to something as low as even seven days,or anything in between. Like you said in your Faction Leaders thread,you want players to be more personally aquainted with the leaders of their faction,and Conan fans such as you and I might want the Aquilonian king to live long enough to conquer all of Hyboria.

PS - BTW,are you the same Taranaich that's on the REH forums?

[Taranaich]

That option would provide a good degree more difficulty in the form of a time limit (i.e.,conquer X number of settlements before Y amount of turns) for anyone looking for a real challenge (the Alexander campaign was difficult,but undoubtedly the most rewarding when completed,despite the fact that you had to conquer virtually the whole map). And I've always found that family members in the regular style of gameplay just die off relatively too quick to be of extended use (and I hate it when they die of old age in the middle of conquest and leave the army to a captain in charge of a very vulnerable infantry unit!)

Alternatively,if the above doesn't seem to mix,would it be at all possible to make the passage of time per each turn selectable from six months to something as low as even seven days,or anything in between. Like you said in your Faction Leaders thread,you want players to be more personally aquainted with the leaders of their faction,and Conan fans such as you and I might want the Aquilonian king to live long enough to conquer all of Hyboria.

Ah, I see. I'm thinking of utilizing the short/long campaign mechanic for this: short campaign would have you following one character, long campaign many generations. The short campaign would have 12 turns a year for 50 years, so you can pretty much follow one leader's life, and when they die it would very much feel like the end of an era. The long campaign would be more than that, perhaps one turn a year for 500, the focus shifting from individual characters to grand events like the Aquilonian empire, the Pictish and Hyrkanian invasions and the Nordic drift.

Hopefully I can make the other faction leaders as interesting and fun to play as Conan would be. :beam:


PS - BTW,are you the same Taranaich that's on the REH forums?

Heh, I should make that a sticky - indeed, I am he. :egypt:

[born2dive67]

short campaign sounds interesting, but i prefer long myself and the more turns per long the better, just my opinion though

[Spartan198]

Would it be feasable to add a "reputation" element alongside command stars,management,loyalty,etc.? Having a high reputation level could add overall bonuses instead of just certain attributes becoming better and better over time.

[Taranaich]

Would it be feasable to add a "reputation" element alongside command stars,management,loyalty,etc.? Having a high reputation level could add overall bonuses instead of just certain attributes becoming better and better over time.

Would be nice, but I'm unsure if new elements can be added in such a way.

A character's reputation might be changed in how I'm thinking of overhauling the chivalry/dread system: instead of those two, it will now be Civilization/Barbarism. I'll explore the differences between the two at a later date (it will be a substantial part of the mod), but suffice to say that a character's rating will be very important to how other characters and factions view them.

[Spartan198]

Would be nice, but I'm unsure if new elements can be added in such a way.

A character's reputation might be changed in how I'm thinking of overhauling the chivalry/dread system: instead of those two, it will now be Civilization/Barbarism. I'll explore the differences between the two at a later date (it will be a substantial part of the mod), but suffice to say that a character's rating will be very important to how other characters and factions view them.

Sounds interesting. :book:

[Spartan198]

Sorry I haven't been to your forum as of late,I've just been preoccupied with modding little details concerning my R:TW files.

(1) I had an idea related to the mercenary general Valeria: Seeing as we both know how resistant she is to being helped by men,maybe it'd be more logical to make her bodyguard unit a grouping of warrior women. Valeria's an equal-opportunity killer,but I think she'd be more likely to surround herself with women.

(2) You may have answered this before but I can't quite remember when or where,so here goes: Will Corinthia have any standard hoplite units (i.e.,with dori thrusting spears instead of sarissa)? If so,why not have them wield their spears overhand instead of the usual underarm style? Seeing as underarm would put those nasty bronze counterweights perfectly level with the second rank's groin,which I know for sure ain't kosher (please,don't ask.)!

[Taranaich]

(1) I had an idea related to the mercenary general Valeria: Seeing as we both know how resistant she is to being helped by men,maybe it'd be more logical to make her bodyguard unit a grouping of warrior women. Valeria's an equal-opportunity killer,but I think she'd be more likely to surround herself with women.

I was thinking of taking a leaf from Broken Crescent's book: one of their units (Kara-Khitai archers I think) has a mixture of male and female units. I thought that would be a neat thing to do. However, an all-female mercenary group would also be pretty unique, though not without historical precedent - like Eurypile's army of women that captured an Amorite city, or Arachidamia's Spartan women who battled Pyrrhus.


(2) You may have answered this before but I can't quite remember when or where,so here goes: Will Corinthia have any standard hoplite units (i.e.,with dori thrusting spears instead of sarissa)? If so,why not have them wield their spears overhand instead of the usual underarm style? Seeing as underarm would put those nasty bronze counterweights perfectly level with the second rank's groin,which I know for sure ain't kosher (please,don't ask.)!

Corinthia will have three "hoplite" units armed with dori: the current names are Citizen Hoplites, Citizen Phalanx and Bronze Shields, though they might change for a more colourful ethnic name. At the moment the models are cursed with those horrible weedy little vanilla spears that look more like darts than sturdy battle spears, but I intend to give them big hefty dori and slightly bigger shields.

The overhand thing is a different matter though, it would require delving into the dreaded animation files and I don't know where to begin. A way to cheat could be to use the "javelin throwing" animation in a melee attack: I remember doing this completely by accident in Rome (and it looked pretty good), so it could be possible in Medieval. More experimentation will be needed in this matter, but if it can be done, it will.

[Spartan198]

I did the same thing with my hoplite phalanxes (the fs_javelinman animation) and everyone told me they wouldn't thrust their spears,but mine do without any dislikable result.

Another thing related to legionary troops: Replacing fs_swordsman with fs_spearman (I'm not sure if I'm 100% on the animation names) would make them fight more realistically with a thrusting motion of their swords (I've restricted my modding to Rome and BI,so I'm not sure if that'll work in Medieval 2).

PS - The ethnic name for the Bronze Shields is Chalcipides,I think,but not 100% sure.

[Taranaich]

I did the same thing with my hoplite phalanxes (the fs_javelinman animation) and everyone told me they wouldn't thrust their spears,but mine do without any dislikable result.

It would be nice to have a dedicated overhand spear animation, but I guess I'll have to wait until Signifer1 nails it and I ask very kindly to incorporate it. :beam:


Another thing related to legionary troops: Replacing fs_swordsman with fs_spearman (I'm not sure if I'm 100% on the animation names) would make them fight more realistically with a thrusting motion of their swords (I've restricted my modding to Rome and BI,so I'm not sure if that'll work in Medieval 2).

I've been doing things like this for certain units: I've also given any units with curved swords the "mace" animation since stabbing looks a bit off with them, and some units with straight swords like the legions and those with rapiers have the "spear" animation.


PS - The ethnic name for the Bronze Shields is Chalcipides,I think,but not 100% sure.

Sounds about right. :2thumbsup:

[Spartan198]

The Rome EB website is a good place for finding ethnic names for units,if you don't already have a good source.

[Spartan198]

Crazy idea: Would the game's elephant animations (charging,goring,etc.) suffice for the creation of Rhino cavalry for the Black Kingdoms factions?

You've already said in the past that there will be legionaries,but would there be any chance of a legionary shield wall formation of sorts? Kinda like a phalanx,but using swords in place of spears. I always thought that a special ability like that would have been far more useful to Roman legionaries in RTW than that entirely useless testudo.

[Taranaich]

Crazy idea: Would the game's elephant animations (charging,goring,etc.) suffice for the creation of Rhino cavalry for the Black Kingdoms factions?

They would be perfectly sufficient (especially that one where it charges and tosses its head up and down like a nutcase). And spookily enough, I do have rhino cavalry planned, though not as how you might imagine... Unfortunately, this particular unit would be far off into the future, and after I actually model a rhino.


You've already said in the past that there will be legionaries,but would there be any chance of a legionary shield wall formation of sorts? Kinda like a phalanx,but using swords in place of spears. I always thought that a special ability like that would have been far more useful to Roman legionaries in RTW than that entirely useless testudo.

Get out of my head! :D Yep, I gave the legions the shieldwall animation: a few bugs need to be sorted out, but it looks pretty good!

[Spartan198]

Get out of my head! :D
I guess Conan fans are always on the same page,regardless of subject. :beam:

Edit: Hey,I surpassed my 300th post and never noticed.

[Taranaich]

I guess Conan fans are always on the same page,regardless of subject. :beam:

Try telling that to Messrs Richardson and Rippke! :laugh4:

[Spartan198]

Try telling that to Messrs Richardson and Rippke! :laugh4:
Well,some of us,anyway.

[cherryfunk]

Taranaich, I'm curious how you plan on handling the religion feature. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but religion doesn't seem to have been particularly important in Hyboria, at least as a cause of friction (outside of Stygian's abhorrent and blood-thirsty sect, of course) -- while culture was very important, particularly Hyborian vs. 'barbaric' vs. 'ancient' cultures.

Have you thought about using the religion mechanism to represent culture, as the Kingdoms Britannia campaign does? This would make it difficult for Hyborian cultures to expand into non-Hyborian regions, and vice-versa.

In fact, a comment you made earlier in this thread stood out to me:

The Heart of Ahriman will offer significant bonuses when fighting ancient cultures (Stygia, Kosala, Khitai, basically any that would have magic or monsters)

'Ancient' might be one of the cultures, along with Hyborian, Barbarian (or 'Savage') for the Picts, Cimmerians, and Northmen, and Eastern for the Hyrkanians and Turanians...

[Spartan198]

I'm not trying to speak for Tar,but I believe he said something about a civilization vs barbarism mechanic in another thread,but hasn't really expanded on it yet.

But that's just what I can remember right off the top of my head. :embarassed:

[Taranaich]

Taranaich, I'm curious how you plan on handling the religion feature. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but religion doesn't seem to have been particularly important in Hyboria, at least as a cause of friction (outside of Stygian's abhorrent and blood-thirsty sect, of course) -- while culture was very important, particularly Hyborian vs. 'barbaric' vs. 'ancient' cultures.

Have you thought about using the religion mechanism to represent culture, as the Kingdoms Britannia campaign does? This would make it difficult for Hyborian cultures to expand into non-Hyborian regions, and vice-versa.

That's indeed what I was planning on. Religion in the mod will be relegated more to it's role in Rome, in that it offers extras like units, stat increases and happiness/law bonuses. The "religion" mechanic will be replaced with a culture one: Hyborian, Barbarian, Savage, Ancient and Eastern. Like in the "Britannia" campaign, this will represent the problems which arise from sizeable populations of different cultures. If, say, Aquilonia conquers a Cimmerian province, they'll have the problem of being perhaps 5% Hyborian and 95% Barbarian, which would make holding and controlling the province incredibly difficult. Culture will also allow the recruitment of different regional units, again like in Britannia.


I'm not trying to speak for Tar,but I believe he said something about a civilization vs barbarism mechanic in another thread,but hasn't really expanded on it yet.

The civilization vs barbarism will be replacing chivalry/dread, since I never liked that dichotomy. Surely a chivalrous man can be dreaded by his enemies, being generous and kindly to his subjects and soldiers but a sadistic monster to his foes? By changing this, a few of the decisions that affect those traits are hopefully a little more realistic: letting prisoners go is "civilized", and thus conforms to tradition and status quo among the nobility.

Therefore, a Hyborian character who releases prisoners is acting according to knightly codes and conduct, and so is being "civilized". Slaying prisoners is breaking those codes, and is viewed as dishonourable and "barbaric" by other characters. By contrast, a Barbarian who releases prisoners is seen as weak and foolish by other barbarians. Killing prisoners is simply pragmatic and accepted practise among barbarians, so killing prisoners reaffirms a character's resolve and status among barbarians.

Generally only the Hyborian nations are typically "civilized": Barbarians, Shemites and Easterners are usually "barbaric". Note that civilization/barbarism does not mean advanced/unadvanced: Turan is a barbaric nation, but its social and cultural mores are more savage than the unnatural and complicated ones of Aquilonia or Nemedia.

I'm unsure where Stygia will fit in here: the Stygian nobility might have a lot of rules and etiquette, but sacrificing prisoners would undoubtedly be useful for the clergy. Since Hyborians make up the majority of factions, so most factions would be viewed as "barbaric" by them...

[cherryfunk]

That's indeed what I was planning on. Religion in the mod will be relegated more to it's role in Rome, in that it offers extras like units, stat increases and happiness/law bonuses. The "religion" mechanic will be replaced with a culture one: Hyborian, Barbarian, Savage, Ancient and Eastern. Like in the "Britannia" campaign, this will represent the problems which arise from sizeable populations of different cultures. If, say, Aquilonia conquers a Cimmerian province, they'll have the problem of being perhaps 5% Hyborian and 95% Barbarian, which would make holding and controlling the province incredibly difficult. Culture will also allow the recruitment of different regional units, again like in Britannia.
Perfect! This should work really well, and add a great deal of challenge to the game. It will also tend to 'mold' the campaign into 'historical' channels -- if you're playing Cimmeria, you'll find it easier to expand into Barbaric regions, then into Hyborian ones. Stygia will run into all sorts of problems expanding north (and might have to exterminate a few cities to make them more manageable...) -- so more than just a clash of nations, the campaign will take on the aspect of a clash of cultures.

Now, I wonder if the priest/heretic dynamic can be modded to fit this? Could Priests represent, perhaps, men who espouse a particular culture? I'm trying to think of what this could be. Maybe something like bards/skalds for Barbaric, teachers/philosophers for Hyborian... or maybe they should remain Priests, but just represent the different pantheons...


The civilization vs barbarism will be replacing chivalry/dread, since I never liked that dichotomy. Surely a chivalrous man can be dreaded by his enemies, being generous and kindly to his subjects and soldiers but a sadistic monster to his foes? By changing this, a few of the decisions that affect those traits are hopefully a little more realistic: letting prisoners go is "civilized", and thus conforms to tradition and status quo among the nobility.
This is an excellent idea, and it fits perfectly with the Hyborian universe -- after all the conflict of civilization vs. barbarism was a theme that REH explored though most of his writings. What more fitting way to represent it in the mod than have each character be Barbaric or Civilized? Wonderful idea!

[Taranaich]

Perfect! This should work really well, and add a great deal of challenge to the game. It will also tend to 'mold' the campaign into 'historical' channels -- if you're playing Cimmeria, you'll find it easier to expand into Barbaric regions, then into Hyborian ones. Stygia will run into all sorts of problems expanding north (and might have to exterminate a few cities to make them more manageable...) -- so more than just a clash of nations, the campaign will take on the aspect of a clash of cultures.

Stygia will probably have the greatest difficulty with culture problems, since it's surrounded by Shemite and Savage land respectively, and it's already treated with suspicion by other nations. It's best bet would be the east: Kuthchemes and Zamboula were originally Stygian cities and so still have a strong Stygian populace, and the deserts are sparse enough that they can be pretty much populated with them.


Now, I wonder if the priest/heretic dynamic can be modded to fit this? Could Priests represent, perhaps, men who espouse a particular culture? I'm trying to think of what this could be. Maybe something like bards/skalds for Barbaric, teachers/philosophers for Hyborian... or maybe they should remain Priests, but just represent the different pantheons...

I would very much like to keep priests in, as it offers more stuff for the player to control. As you said, the unit would have to be something that has control over a particular culture or population. I'm currently thinking the priest would be replaced with a basic unit (maybe Rhetoric, or Demagogue?), with each faction having their own particular slant on it based on who would have the most power and influence. For example, Cimmerians would have Bards, Nemedians would have philosophers, Picts would have Shamans, etc. Heretics would be something like "Sorcerers", with heresy replaced by "Dark Cults", since they seem the type to be always causing trouble (like in Black Colossus).


This is an excellent idea, and it fits perfectly with the Hyborian universe -- after all the conflict of civilization vs. barbarism was a theme that REH explored though most of his writings. What more fitting way to represent it in the mod than have each character be Barbaric or Civilized? Wonderful idea!

Thanks, glad you like it! I felt no Howard mod would be complete without a civilization vs barbarism theme, and this seemed a good way to include it.

[cherryfunk]

I would very much like to keep priests in, as it offers more stuff for the player to control. As you said, the unit would have to be something that has control over a particular culture or population. I'm currently thinking the priest would be replaced with a basic unit (maybe Rhetoric, or Demagogue?), with each faction having their own particular slant on it based on who would have the most power and influence. For example, Cimmerians would have Bards, Nemedians would have philosophers, Picts would have Shamans, etc. Heretics would be something like "Sorcerers", with heresy replaced by "Dark Cults", since they seem the type to be always causing trouble (like in Black Colossus).
Once again you have this thought out very well, and I agree completely that we should keep Priests in -- it's a very cool feature of M2TW.

Since 'piety' determined a Priest's effectiveness, what would that be replaced with? 'Influence'? 'Charisma'?

Now, are Priests defined by culture, or by faction? Could the different Hyborian nations have different priest types? Either one would probably work, but it would be cool if they could be separate for each nation -- that would allow a little more 'personalization' for each culture.

The Sorcerer/Dark Cult idea would also work I think -- there are various hints throughout the stories of dark cults that linger in the dark recesses of Hyboria. I'm not sure that it makes sense for a Bard to defeat a Sorcerer, but we can find some way to make it work.

[Taranaich]

Once again you have this thought out very well, and I agree completely that we should keep Priests in -- it's a very cool feature of M2TW.

The more agents available, the more the player can control is my philosophy regarding this.


Since 'piety' determined a Priest's effectiveness, what would that be replaced with? 'Influence'? 'Charisma'?

Hmm, tricky one. I think something fairly universal like "authority" would work: it would mean how adept or skilled the character was in his chosen field, and thus his fame and influence.


Now, are Priests defined by culture, or by faction? Could the different Hyborian nations have different priest types? Either one would probably work, but it would be cool if they could be separate for each nation -- that would allow a little more 'personalization' for each culture.

I think it's defined by religion itself, so that would mean one per culture. It could be possible to have different ones per culture, but I don't think it is sadly. Still, one per culture still offers lots of customization, and you'd also get upgrades (priests to cardinals could allow for Bards to become Warrior Poets, Philosophers become Sages, Shamans become Children of Jhebbal-Sag and so on)


The Sorcerer/Dark Cult idea would also work I think -- there are various hints throughout the stories of dark cults that linger in the dark recesses of Hyboria. I'm not sure that it makes sense for a Bard to defeat a Sorcerer, but we can find some way to make it work.

In these cases, it's more a matter of the character gathering a small rabble to defeat the Sorcerer and his cult through force of arms: a Bard with high authority has more followers, and so can lead the mob to destroy the cult. One with low authority can only scrounge together a small group, and would fail to overcome the cult: they could either escape with their lives, or be enslaved by the cult for their own dark purposes.

[cherryfunk]

Hmm, tricky one. I think something fairly universal like "authority" would work: it would mean how adept or skilled the character was in his chosen field, and thus his fame and influence.
Sure, that might do the trick. Or some similar term; influence, power, prestige, persuasion, conviction, zeal, notability...


I think it's defined by religion itself, so that would mean one per culture. It could be possible to have different ones per culture, but I don't think it is sadly. Still, one per culture still offers lots of customization, and you'd also get upgrades (priests to cardinals could allow for Bards to become Warrior Poets, Philosophers become Sages, Shamans become Children of Jhebbal-Sag and so on)
Sounds good, and it'll definitely add some atmosphere to have these characters wandering around fighting to spread their culture. That's one element of M2TW I really like -- the sense that the factions themselves are players in a larger, global struggle between cultures. And it fits in very well with Howard's writings...


In these cases, it's more a matter of the character gathering a small rabble to defeat the Sorcerer and his cult through force of arms: a Bard with high authority has more followers, and so can lead the mob to destroy the cult. One with low authority can only scrounge together a small group, and would fail to overcome the cult: they could either escape with their lives, or be enslaved by the cult for their own dark purposes.
I like it, it almost has a Dungeons and Dragons feel to it, as if each character represents a hero -- we could even use anciliaries to give them a 'party' of companions, say a Skald who has been joined by a Heroic Warrior and a Tribal Shaman, giving his 'Authority' a big boost... all sorts of possibilities with this!

[Taranaich]

Sure, that might do the trick. Or some similar term; influence, power, prestige, persuasion, conviction, zeal, notability...

Yeah, we'll have to find the most inclusive (and cool sounding).


Sounds good, and it'll definitely add some atmosphere to have these characters wandering around fighting to spread their culture. That's one element of M2TW I really like -- the sense that the factions themselves are players in a larger, global struggle between cultures. And it fits in very well with Howard's writings...

For all the war and carnage going on, people are certainly well-travelled in the Hyborian Age. I'm particularly struck by that mention of a "wandering Shemite" describing an elephant to Conan in Tower of the Elephant: it would be nice for such a character to get a nod.


I like it, it almost has a Dungeons and Dragons feel to it, as if each character represents a hero -- we could even use anciliaries to give them a 'party' of companions, say a Skald who has been joined by a Heroic Warrior and a Tribal Shaman, giving his 'Authority' a big boost... all sorts of possibilities with this!

That's a brilliant idea! I think making the strat-map characters more interesting and complicated would be crucial to making them as important and engaging as the generals. A lot of people just gave up on merchants and priests since they offered so little reward, but I think they are important for the growth and wellbeing of a kingdom beyond the battlefield. Anything to make the campaign as enjoyable as possible instead of a stop-gap between the battles.

[Irishmafia2020]

I originally posted this comment in the "Beasts" thread, but I think it might be worthy of being in the suggestion box.

"I wonder if you could script in some treasure... i.e. if your FM or troops reach a certain gridsquare or resource, they get 10,000 gold or whatever... or conversly, by defeating a certain brigand (ice giant... Demon, snake whatever) you could script money to be given to the player to simulate finding a hoard... Maybe even with an announcement showing someone finding treasure! (comic book style..)"

This was in the context of having treasure hunting expiditions against some of those vicious beasts mentioned in that thread, but it would actually be a useful and unique gameplay element that might not be that hard to implement (I don't know anything about scripting though...) Still, rewards were given in RTW by the senate, and in MTW2 by the pope for completing missions, so it should be possible one way or another...

[Taranaich]

I originally posted this comment in the "Beasts" thread, but I think it might be worthy of being in the suggestion box...


Expeditions for treasure will be quite a fun little "mini-game" in itself, which will be explored further in the big huge special preview that'll be coming. There will also be witch hunts, beast-slaying, archaeology expeditions and other adventures: they're very, very similar to what you suggested. :2thumbsup:

[cherryfunk]

Don't forget the curses, mass human sacrifices, dark rituals, demon-summonings and wizardly battles... :skull:

[Irishmafia2020]

Coooollllll..... nothing like mass sacrifice to summon a demon!!:2thumbsup:

[Spartan198]

Don't forget the curses, mass human sacrifices, dark rituals, demon-summonings and wizardly battles... :skull:
And the naked dancing-girls. :grin:

[uanime5]

If you want to add fire magic I could explain how I added it to my 4 Seasons mod.

[GazzaD]

Hi. Long time player of R:TW and just started with M:TW2 Gold that I got just the other day. Also a long time lurker of the various TW forums.

I can't tell you how glad I am to see someone making a Hyborian Age TW mod. Huge fan of the REH books and also actively play Hyborian War (Which for those of you who don't know is a really old PBM snail mail game that's been running for years). An earlier post on this thread had a link to the kingdom setups and maps for the game.

I see you were having issues figuring out the names of provinces and cities. The map provided with Hyborian War would probably be an excellent reference to use seeing as that game also makes use of provinces much like the TW games. Some are named pretty silly things (Like "The Swampy Desert") and I'm sure you don't want to rip off another game but the resources for that game may be invaluable for reference purposes. Note that the Kingdom setups also have plenty of names of characters and troop types which could also be handy.

PM me if you are interested in looking at the map and I'll send it to you. Sorry but I can't figure out how to post an image here directly from my local PC. I also have all the kingdom setups.

[Taranaich]

Hi. Long time player of R:TW and just started with M:TW2 Gold that I got just the other day. Also a long time lurker of the various TW forums.

Welcome GazzaD, nice to see you delurk. :D


I can't tell you how glad I am to see someone making a Hyborian Age TW mod. Huge fan of the REH books and also actively play Hyborian War (Which for those of you who don't know is a really old PBM snail mail game that's been running for years). An earlier post on this thread had a link to the kingdom setups and maps for the game.

A couple of Hyborian War folk have been along, so it's obviously pretty strong still. I doubt Conan: Total War will replace the PBM version, but hopefully the PBM regulars will provide an audience for the mod.


I see you were having issues figuring out the names of provinces and cities. The map provided with Hyborian War would probably be an excellent reference to use seeing as that game also makes use of provinces much like the TW games. Some are named pretty silly things (Like "The Swampy Desert") and I'm sure you don't want to rip off another game but the resources for that game may be invaluable for reference purposes. Note that the Kingdom setups also have plenty of names of characters and troop types which could also be handy.

The Hyborian War game is an excellent resource, but it was based on the Schuyler/Miller map, which has proven to have been inaccurate when compared with newly released information and the unedited texts. Still, most of Hyborian War can be applied to the mod: Argos is still the ultimate sea power, Turan is still a juggernaut, Stygia's still a magic nation etc.

[born2dive67]

Wow i was wondering if that PBM game was still going, i once heard something a long time ago about it might go online which is something i wish it would do, as I really liked the game, but i cant get my self to snail mail anything with any kind of regularity lol

[Helgi]

Will there be anything on the Vanir in the near future?

[Spartan198]

Will there be anything on the Vanir in the near future?
They probably won't be all that different from their Aesir counterparts, but I assume both factions will have unique units to set them apart.

[Helgi]

They probably won't be all that different from their Aesir counterparts, but I assume both factions will have unique units to set them apart.

Ok, that works for me than, working on a story in my creative writing class using a passage on page 396 from the book "The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian" involving the Vanir and Stygia.

[Taranaich]

They probably won't be all that different from their Aesir counterparts, but I assume both factions will have unique units to set them apart.

Pretty much. The major differences are that the Aesir have more of an emphasis on defence than the offensive Vanir: most of the Aesir unique units wear chain armour, while most of the Vanir are clad in wolfskins.

[Spartan198]

Ok, that works for me than, working on a story in my creative writing class using a passage on page 396 from the book "The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian" involving the Vanir and Stygia.
Sounds cool. Short story?

[Helgi]

I wish, so far it's 26 pages so far, it's a cross between Detective Noir, Fantasy & with horror/Sci-fi due to the date that part of the story takes place in 2013-14, with Journal entries continuing the voice of a character who died in chapter 3. Chapter 4-9 is part of the Detective Noir with the journal entries, 10 & 11 are going to be part of the back story mentioned in the journal entries involving a group of Vanir. Everything from that point is up in the air at the moment.

[Andrik]

Would it be possible to give the Pictish Shamans the ability to call a Warpath like the Apachean Tribes? This could be a huge advantage for the Picts to not only have very much increased movement ability; but also to supplement their numbers very quickly with "horde" type troops that the Warleader could summon to him at little to no cost in raising new troops.

This way, while the standing Pictish military wouldn't be all that big, very quickly each Pictish Warleader would be able to raise more soldiers, increase his armies movement, and even give a religious zeal to his troops that make them fight harder.

I know nothing of computer programming, but while playing Kingdoms as the Apachean Tribes, I used this tactic for the first time and immediately thought of Picts vs. Aquilonia.

Also, using the Apachean Tribes, you could allow the Picts to gather technology that would allow them to later build structures that allow them cavalry even...just like in Howard's history. I don't know how you would change the muskets to just weapons...like I said, I know nothing of computers; but I thought perhaps it is possible.

[Spartan198]

I wish, so far it's 26 pages so far, it's a cross between Detective Noir, Fantasy & with horror/Sci-fi due to the date that part of the story takes place in 2013-14, with Journal entries continuing the voice of a character who died in chapter 3. Chapter 4-9 is part of the Detective Noir with the journal entries, 10 & 11 are going to be part of the back story mentioned in the journal entries involving a group of Vanir. Everything from that point is up in the air at the moment.
26 pages isn't bad. I have yet to pass page 5 on anything I'm writing. I tend to start an idea, then once I've gotten the intro written, I already have another one in mind that I start on.

...sorry for going off-topic, T.. :sweatdrop:

Edit: @Taraniach
I just saw that your forum on TWcenter was moved to the graveyard. Please tell me CTW isn't dying...:bigcry:

[Helgi]

26 pages isn't bad. I have yet to pass page 5 on anything I'm writing. I tend to start an idea, then once I've gotten the intro written, I already have another one in mind that I start on.

...sorry for going off-topic, T.. :sweatdrop:

Edit: @Taraniach
I just saw that your forum on TWcenter was moved to the graveyard. Please tell me CTW isn't dying...:bigcry:

A suggestion on writting, compile a list of 50 paragraphs on anything and then combine 3 - 4 of those paragraphs to form a building block for a story. That is how my story started.

[Taranaich]

...sorry for going off-topic, T.. :sweatdrop:

Don't sweat it. :)


Edit: @Taraniach
I just saw that your forum on TWcenter was moved to the graveyard. Please tell me CTW isn't dying...:bigcry:

So THAT'S where it is! Man, you stop commenting for a month and the thing gets declared dead... Well, as soon as there's a more substantial update (like the one I kept talking about before Christmas, *tugs collar*) I'll try and get it back up.

[Spartan198]

So THAT'S where it is! Man, you stop commenting for a month and the thing gets declared dead... Well, as soon as there's a more substantial update (like the one I kept talking about before Christmas, *tugs collar*) I'll try and get it back up.
Whew, that made my heart skip a beat. I might have to get a sword and shield, head over there to TWcenter, and persuade them to reinstate it... :knight:

[Emperor of Graal]

How about a Mod for MTW2 about Japan

[Spartan198]

How about a Mod for MTW2 about Japan
How about an on-topic post? :sweatdrop:

[Helgi]

How about a Mod for MTW2 about Japan

Have to totally agree with Spartan198, that this is about Hyboria, not Medieval Japan, if you want a Medieval Japanese mod during the Age of War, then you should ever find a mod, make one or get a group together to make one. I would ask a certain group in the RTW posts for possible help.