New factions?

[Jo the Greek]

Which new factions would you like to see in E.B?

[Ice]

Which new factions would you like to see in E.B?

Illyria would be nice. Perhaps another Germanic faction also. Oh, yeah, and Numida. :2thumbsup:

[Jo the Greek]

Illyria good idea a faction between balkans and italy would mess the things a lot .

[KARTLOS]

nubian and indian, though they are perhaps off the map.

i dont know how much is know about nubian military structure either

[Andronikos]

New germanic and briton faction, Numidia and Pergamon, another ideas are Syracuse, Celtiberians and something which would attack Seleucids like Maccabees as a non-playable faction which will appear

[The Internet]

A new Germanic faction to balance out the Swezboz, perhaps the Suebi maybe? Unless you made the SwezBoz a coalition including the Suebi but they would be a good faction to have along with another Germanic faction to balance out the region so that the Swezboz don't just steam roll the Aedui and Averni and have some stronger competition. Or perhaps another Celtaberian tribe or even another Gallic tribe, the Menepii or a Belgian tribe (sp?) perhaps, they were both a big part of the Gallic resistance against Caeser.

[Bootsiuv]

Woops...double post...blame AOL not me. I hate AOL, but, dial-up is what it is for now. So be it.

[Bootsiuv]

The Attalids' Pergamonian Kingdom would be cool. Then again, they're is a million of them that would be cool. Boo on CA for creating a faction limit....I remember the XL mod for MTW had like 50 factions (don't know the exact number, I just know it was a lot more than 21). Soooo, CA, this boo's for you. Boo.

[burn_again]

@ The Internet: I think the Sweboz ARE the Suebi.

I'd like to see another germanic faction or a celtic faction like the Boii in eastern Europe. This would both balance the Sweboz expansion and prevent the Romans from heading north too early.

[Frodge]

India, or if it is at all possible some sort of oriental chinese style faction, tibet or at a push proto-mongols but i don't think the map goes far enough east for the idea to be plausible

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Personally I think every Germanic tribe deserves a proper faction. This way they would compete with each other, some would be eaten up, an thus preventing the Suebi = Sweboz (!) from becoming the all-time superpower of the Baltics.

I think that would be great. And remember, EB-team, all these Germanic factions would share models!

Pergamon, Skythians, Syrakuse perhaps would be great as well.:2thumbsup:

Edit: And Belgae of course.

[The Internet]

I was worried that the Swezboz were the Suebi i just wasn't sure, in that case perhaps the Boii would be a good choice, i say the more Germanic tribes the better, i just wish the engine could allow us represent things properly. :(

[Frostwulf]

The Boii were a Celtic tribe, but perhaps the Cimbri or Teutons would be a possible choice.

[The Internet]

Heh i know, i should of quoted the person who said having the Boii would help check the Roman advance for a while, but i still support a new German tribe, i should of put that across a little better. :sweatdrop:



The Cimbri or Teutons sound like great ideas, just gotta work out which one would be the best choice.

[Bactron]

Except of those that were already mentioned (Pergamon, Suebi, Celtiberi, Belgae, etc.) I would like to see Galatian faction they would be a fun to play controlling Ankyra and messing in Asia minor.

But I have to say that in my recent Aedui campagin I have conquered Galatia and it provided me a full time Galatian experience. So maybe it is not necessary to have them as Faction. Because it can be very well supplemented if the Arverni or Aedui player conquers Ankyra.

[The Internet]

The Galacians would be a pretty cool faction to have out in there, they might even keep some other factions in check, perhaps even the AS, the Galatians were feared by everyone and used by most in their armies or if a rival wanted to overthrow their current king or if a king wished to try and keep power he allied himself with the Galatians.



If i remember correctly that is.

[burn_again]

I think Cimbri or Teutons would be difficult to represent in the game, as the EB-team doesn't seem to want emerging factions in EB2. 270 BC is way too early to have them in the south, and if they start in Denmark they'll never make it to Italy.

Also the Belgae or any germanic tribes west of the Sweboz would weaken the gaulic factions too much, who never perform very good in my campaigns.

I really hate to see the Romans at the Baltic sea in 220, so I hope for a germanic or celtic faction east or south-east of the Sweboz.

Galatians would be cool. I'd give them Tylis and Ancyra as starting territories, so they wouldn't be wiped out too early...

[mlp071]

The Attalids' Pergamonian Kingdom would be cool. Then again, they're is a million of them that would be cool. Boo on CA for creating a faction limit....I remember the XL mod for MTW had like 50 factions (don't know the exact number, I just know it was a lot more than 21). Soooo, CA, this boo's for you. Boo.

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.Don't know how they came up with that.

At same time, they still only have 520 unit slots available, same like RTW.

[Wolfman]

Pergamon, Skythians, Syrakuse perhaps would be great as well.:2thumbsup:

Edit: And Belgae of course. The Scythians are already in there I think as the Saka. I would like to See Pergamon, Syracuse, The 2 numidian kingdoms, Chatti, Bithynia, Belgae, Illyria, Bastarnae, Numantines, and if one of these can not be done than the Goidlics.

Edit: Oh I forgot about the Galatians.

[blitzkrieg80]

A new Germanic faction to balance out the Swezboz, perhaps the Suebi maybe? Unless you made the SwezBoz a coalition including the Suebi but they would be a good faction to have along with another Germanic faction to balance out the region so that the Swezboz don't just steam roll the Aedui and Averni and have some stronger competition. Or perhaps another Celtaberian tribe or even another Gallic tribe, the Menepii or a Belgian tribe (sp?) perhaps, they were both a big part of the Gallic resistance against Caeser.

Latin Suebii = Proto-Germanic *Swēbōz from *swēbaz sb.m.: ON Sváfa-land 'land of the Swabians', OE pl. Swǽfe 'Swabians', OHG pl. Swāba id. Cf. also Lat-Germ Suēbi, Suēvi. Based on PGmc *swēsaz adj.: Goth swes 'one's own', ON sváss id., OE swǽs id., OFris swēs 'related', OS swās 'own, nice, cosy', OHG swās 'private, intimate, homely'. Derived from IE *sue-: Skt svá- 'own,' Av hva- id., Gk ὂς id., Lat suus id., OPrus swais, Slav *svojь

the Teutons would be just another Celtic tribe... yes, both the notorious "Teutons" as well as the "Germans" were not really Germanic at all (language/ethnicity) but Celtic, check the Oxford English dictionary if you don't believe me, or read Caesar's propoganda efforts against Celts on the other side of the Rhine aka 'Germans'. That is not to say that any particular Indo-European people was exclusive to a certain area and many were far more mixed amongst other cultures than believed.

although everybody in EB wants another Germanic faction for variety and balance, there is little evidence to support any supra-tribal governments during 270BC, in-fact the Suebi are borderline appropriate in the first place, practically a singular option... the problem is no literate people of the time cared to write about that area until Caesar or later which isn't very valid for the 270-50BC period which most of EB takes place during... yes, there are a few who did write little bits but it's nothing to support a faction :cry: my point being, don't get your hopes up... we Germanophiles and those of other interests are trying.

there are Proto-Balts who are recorded consistently for a long time in the East, although their government is hardly the supra-tribal confederacy i described

[Frostwulf]

the Teutons would be just another Celtic tribe...
If your saying that the Teutons were Celtic I have to disagree with you. John Warry, Tim Newkirk, Adrian Goldsworthy, John Haywood,D.H.Green,Simon James and many others say they were Germanic. The authors I read that said they were not sure was Wells and Cuniffe. The only one that said they were Celts was Ellis. Most encyclopedias, dictionaries and etc. say the Teutons were Germanic.


although everybody in EB wants another Germanic faction for variety and balance, there is little evidence to support any supra-tribal governments during 270BC, in-fact the Suebi are borderline in the first place... the problem is nobody cared to write about that area until Caesar's time and later which isn't very valid for 270-50BC... yes, I know of the few who did write little bits and it's nothing to support a faction
What about the Bastarnae/Scirii, I'm not sure they would fit the criteria but they did attack the Black Sea port of Olbia in 230BC, which means they would have been on the move earlier.

[Bootsiuv]

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.Don't know how they came up with that.

At same time, they still only have 520 unit slots available, same like RTW.


I don't know much about M2:TW, but I will by October, which is when I plan on upgrading my video card and buying it. Here's a question for those in the know about M2:TW....would a Radeon 9250 be sufficient to run the game....if not I'll definitely upgrade before I buy it.

BTW, didn't mean to go off topic, but I'm bored, so sue me. :yes:

[Jo the Greek]

(Mt2 needs ram and me with a ati radeon zafire i play it respectfully) I belvieve a faction like Pergamum would helped a lot to kill the Seleukid monster and also it would great if any lost city of Pergamum by another faction would rebeled to the romans so the can put foot asia minor with way is more realistic.

[AntiochusIII]

Well, Pergamon did play a large role in the history of that particular region, so if the faction slots open up I'm pretty convinced that they would make a good choice. That or Galatians, just to populate Asia Minor a bit more.

In the current EB installment I've got to play "Galatians" quite a few times already though. Whenever I play the Arverni Ankyra seems to always rebel to me, and I had to, ah, fend off all those Seleukid hordes with only local troops. :dizzy2: Thank the engine that my Galatians get an access to the Arverni treasure on the other side of the Mediterranean.

Syracuse sounds fun but I think it's probably best represented by a regional unit or two like Massilia: an influential and large city-state but not exactly an EB faction made. The reason I say this is because they lack any large "Eleutheroi" areas to expand and grow powerful from. A human player would have a fun game fending off Rome and Carthage but an AI player would be screwed nine times out of ten. With Epeiros already there in Italy it would be really crowded.

It's true that Eastern Europe needs a faction to fill up the void (a Sweboz superpower every bloody game is kind of annoying), but I know nothing of the peoples in that area. A common suggestion seems to be the Boii Celtic tribe.

Numidia should be back!

Wolfman: I don't think the Saka Rauka represents the Scythians. The Scythians at the start of the EB timeframe would be between the Getai and the Sauromatae actually.

[pezhetairoi]

I would like something to appear east of the Sweboz, actually, if historically possible, though I'm not familiar with that area at that time period. The Sweboz currently aren't contested in their east. They always end up (if you see the AI expansions) with some form of pre-medieval Drang nach Osten that steamrollers everything in their path and ends up among the Sauromatae, who also get steamrollered. Some Baltic proto-Polish faction, both to put pressure on the Sweboz from the east and on the Getai from the north would be nice. It would probably be not as HA-dependent as the steppe factions, but would have a decent cavalry arm, I am expecting.

Though this is probably wishful thinking since there probably was no such power in the east at that time. :( So the Sweboz will still go uncontested, bah.

Alternatively, a more powerful Getai would also be as good as a brand new faction. I have never seen the Getai do more than become a central Balkan minor power, with fullstacks of Komatai that i can steamroller through easily. A Getai faction that is confident enough to go northeast and north (and maybe even south) would be nice.

[Thaatu]

Boii (or some germanic tribe in the area) would add someone to control the "AI Roman expansion routes", so they'd be an interesting addition, as would Pergamon.

[Gugus]

It seems that a lot of people have a problem with Sweboz overexpanding eastwards (I also think that it is a little unhistorical as most people of that time migrated west not east). Also there is no historical evidence of an east european/baltic power big enough to become an EB faction.
Thinking about those two things I came upon an idea how to stop Sweboz from going east. My first idea was to boost Eleutheroi garrisons there, but then it is not so historical as well to place elite heavy units it that area. Then i reminded myself of a console command that can make a family member immortal. Maybe if someone can script a trigger that makes Eleutheroi general or family member immortal when Sweboz besiege those eastern settlements it will stop them from capturing those areas.
I never used that console command before and I'm not sure if it prevents a character from dying of old age, or makes him immortal in battle, or both, or if it can be reversed (make character mortal again - we dont want any immortal superhero Eleutheroi generals running around, do we?).
I have no scripting skills so can anyone tell me if this is possible. I'll test the "immortality" command when I get home today.
G

[geala]

I'm not a fan of another Germanic tribe. As far as I know (which is not much) up to the first century BC findings with military denotation (esp. weapons) are rare in the Germanic area. After that time and the contact with the Romans it increased dramatically while the burial methods did not change. My conclusion is that no large scale warfare took place in the Germanic region before. It's maybe not worth to spend a faction place for it even if the playability of EB would be supported.

I would like an Illyrian faction but the middle of the map is already crowded; perhaps more Illyrian units for the Epirotes are enough (I hate hate hate the unit limitation for RTW and, grrr, M2TW). Btw, I can insert here my favorite theme:hijacked: : Illyrians are depicted barefoot in the few sources we have. So remember the Alamo.:2thumbsup:

I would also like to have a Goidelic faction (again, you know: many -later-sources show them frequently barefoot:sweatdrop: ), but only if naval invasions would be easier for AI, which would mean the use of the BI exe in the case of EB, wouldn't it? Not planned, or? For EB2 a Goidelic faction should be implemented in any case, just because I like them, hrhr.

A Nubian (Meroe, although of importance only much later?) or Saharian (Garamantes?) faction would be cool, but I wonder wether, beneath the problem with the timeframe, enough interesting units could be created. On the other hand, a faction with many light fast moving infantry troops could be nice in that area. For me it would be a totally new playing style, as I don't like to play the trousered barbarians farther north:laugh4: . So my favorite new factions.

A counterweight against AS in asia minor would be great, but is another Greek faction (Pergamon) not a bit to much? Maybe the Galatians are a good idea, although I would absolutely not be interested in playing them. And I think as a AI faction they would have great problems, more as Pontos I fear. Where is the room to expand?

India would offer great opportunities, but is not really on the map. Were there not great problems to make new provinces?

When I put it together I must confess that I'm relatively happy with the existing factions. If, then a lot of the mentioned new smaller factions should be created. But would that not collide with the restricted unit slots? More regional units would be my priority over new factions. Implementing a new faction should at least never result in disposing existing units.

[The Internet]

Latin Suebii = Proto-Germanic *Swēbōz from *swēbaz sb.m.: ON Sváfa-land 'land of the Swabians', OE pl. Swǽfe 'Swabians', OHG pl. Swāba id. Cf. also Lat-Germ Suēbi, Suēvi. Based on PGmc *swēsaz adj.: Goth swes 'one's own', ON sváss id., OE swǽs id., OFris swēs 'related', OS swās 'own, nice, cosy', OHG swās 'private, intimate, homely'. Derived from IE *sue-: Skt svá- 'own,' Av hva- id., Gk ὂς id., Lat suus id., OPrus swais, Slav *svojь

the Teutons would be just another Celtic tribe... yes, both the notorious "Teutons" as well as the "Germans" were not really Germanic at all (language/ethnicity) but Celtic, check the Oxford English dictionary if you don't believe me, or read Caesar's propoganda efforts against Celts on the other side of the Rhine aka 'Germans'. That is not to say that any particular Indo-European people was exclusive to a certain area and many were far more mixed amongst other cultures than believed.

although everybody in EB wants another Germanic faction for variety and balance, there is little evidence to support any supra-tribal governments during 270BC, in-fact the Suebi are borderline appropriate in the first place, practically a singular option... the problem is no literate people of the time cared to write about that area until Caesar or later which isn't very valid for the 270-50BC period which most of EB takes place during... yes, there are a few who did write little bits but it's nothing to support a faction :cry: my point being, don't get your hopes up... we Germanophiles and those of other interests are trying.

there are Proto-Balts who are recorded consistently for a long time in the East, although their government is hardly the supra-tribal confederacy i described


I hate to argue with you but it seems that a lot of authors seem to disagree about the Suebi not being Germanic, although they do all say that the distinction between Celtic and Germanic tribes (especially around the Rhine) seems to be hard to distinguish mainly because of the archaeology but as Adrian Goldsworthy has said on different occassions "archaeology is a clumbsy tool to distinguish tribal borders and cultures" especially in an area like the Rhine and as someone has already said, there seems to be quite a few historians who believe thart the tuetons were a Germanic tribe and i believe that if we use the MTW2 engine that allows hordes to appear it'd be very cool to have them migrate (perhaps as a large group under one name if need be) of some sort) towards the Celts and the Romans because of pressure from the Suebi.


And i really don't need a Latin translation on how Suebi = swezboz, a couple people have pointed out the fact that they are one in the same and that really is good enough to me, i'm sure you meant all the best when typing it and i don't mean to come across as an ass but to me it seems condescending and while i am not a scholar with a degree in ancient history i am not new to it either, i just don't see the Suebi refered to as the Swezboz outside of EB.

[Bactron]

You have interesting points Geala, and I agree with some of them.
You have convinced me that there is no need for another Germanic faction.
I think that celtic Boii would be apropriete to chalange Sweboz in their rapid expansion. (I am not sure about this but Boii could start with that settelman Euboranum (spelling?) it would be probably historically correct and game/wise)

Again I think that you have good point about those Illyrians, there is no need for them as a faction, some regional units would do that job.

I think that Goidilic faction is represented well as it is now (as a rebel faction with neat regional units /I have conquered them with Aedui and I am even able to recruit Goidilic nobles!))

Nubian faction would be sweet.

I would love to see Pergamon and Galatian factions. Good idea would be (if it is possible) to make them only one settlement faction with no intentions for expanding (while controlled by AI). It would be quite wierd to have a campaign where Galatians would controll all of asia minor. I think that neat idea would be to give to Pergamum huge (and I mean HUGE) boost on their trade income - to represent their historicall sense as a Trading center of that region and also to allow them to keep huge armies for their defence. And Galatians could be solved by giving them really low units upkeep cost (while controlled by AI) To represent the fact that they were looting masters and slave takers and also to allow for them to have some decent army for defence because they would own only Ankyra so there would be no much income for them.

[Pius Curus]

I play for Romans on Hard/Hard and I have really big problems with Swebos. They press me very hard in northern Ilyria. I am goig to mad of them and crowds of their field and mercenary armies. I think that new German faction could balance the force on the north and slow down their expansion. It could be the same as balance between Aeudi and Arverni.

I mean it would be good to renew Numidia for possibility of Roman diplomatic war with Karthastim.

Interesting would be united tribes of Ilyria or if not, than more mercenary Ilyria units for Epirus kingdom.

It would be nice to see Pergamon and Syracuse kingdoms on the strategic map but I think it is not necessary to be playable.

Do you think that it is possible to place in Iberian peninsula town of Saguntum? Because massacre in this town of Hannibal's troop was a "cause" for second Punic War.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Saguntum was also known by the native name of 'Arse'. Saguntum is the Roman name for the city.

[Swordmaster]

And i really don't need a Latin translation on how Suebi = swezboz, a couple people have pointed out the fact that they are one in the same and that really is good enough to me, i'm sure you meant all the best when typing it and i don't mean to come across as an ass but to me it seems condescending and while i am not a scholar with a degree in ancient history i am not new to it either, i just don't see the Suebi refered to as the Swezboz outside of EB.

A bit of etymology is always interesting. If not for you then for someone else.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, let me add there's a distinct fluctuation between u - v - and w. Hence the Romans call the Sw- bit Su-. Now where would Swabia come from? ~;)

[Reno Melitensis]

I would like to see the Illyrians, Pergamon, the Helveti, the Boi or maybe even the kingdom of kappadocia. The belgi, described by Ceaser as the greatest in courage and military skills off all the celts will be a wellcome addition to EB.

Cheers.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well, at least one of them is already covered. :wink:

[blitzkrieg80]

I hate to argue with you but it seems that a lot of authors seem to disagree about the Suebi not being Germanic

are you serious about thinking the Teutons were Germanic but the Suebi were not?! What are the Suebi then (Celtic? Thracian? Cimmerian?) in your theory which so many scholars disagree over? I'm quite fascinated because I've NEVER heard of this

[Redmeth]

It's funny that in my country some of the germanic settlers brought here by the Hungarians (~13-14th century I think) are called Svabi pronounced roughly as Schwabi (I really can't make it sound like in English). It's really similar in a way to Sweboz and clearly has something in common with Suebi.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well Latin V is both W and U, varying translations cause spelling to get screwed up, things get confused.

[Lowenklee]

are you serious about thinking the Teutons were Germanic but the Suebi were not?! What are the Suebi then (Celtic? Thracian? Cimmerian?) in your theory which so many scholars disagree over? I'm quite fascinated because I've NEVER heard of this


I suspect the two of you have miscommunicated. As an aside I also throw my lot in favor of the migration Teutons being protogermanic, the Cimbri are a different and more complex matter.

Getting back on track I would absolutely LOVE to see an eastern Baltic faction if at all supportable.

[abou]

And depending on V's position in a word matters on how it is pronounced.

[Redmeth]

Regarding pronounciation, how can some scholars say that our people (Romanians) have close to nothing in common with the Romans when I can understand the Italian language on TV and I can communicate with an Italian person without proper knowledge of the language just because of the many similar words in our languages. I've read about so many people (historians) judging our Latin heritage and it's really a bummer that the gypsies call themselves Rroma (so similar to Romanians) and the majority of EU and especially the people in UK think that we are all gypsies, (perhaps offtopic but just wanted to get this of my chest), I really think most people here know better and I'm not a racist but the gypsies have really given us Romanians a bad reputation throughout Europe (that's the thanks we get for allowing them to settle in our lands)

[blitzkrieg80]

you know I think the Kurds are strikingly similar in situation to the Romani... interesting though, don't worry Redmeth, I think of Vlad the Impaler ~:) that's right, kill those greedy merchants

[Redmeth]

Yeah Vlad, at least he helped Bram Stoker achieve immortality... He loved the Turks so much (grew up as a hostage in Istanbul). He would be a corruption-stopper it possible in the M2TW, there's a tale about how honest merchants could leave a bag full of gold on the edge of a fountain and later could come back and retrieve it because the punishment for theft was impaling, not really PC but effective I guess.

[Cang]

I think an eastern european and indian faction would be very nice. Nubians would be fun too. Maybe shake things up for carthage. I would also like to see alot more flavor for other factions like those awesome ancient sites on the map. :yes:

[Cang]

Regarding pronounciation, how can some scholars say that our people (Romanians) have close to nothing in common with the Romans when I can understand the Italian language on TV and I can communicate with an Italian person without proper knowledge of the language just because of the many similar words in our languages. I've read about so many people (historians) judging our Latin heritage and it's really a bummer that the gypsies call themselves Rroma (so similar to Romanians) and the majority of EU and especially the people in UK think that we are all gypsies, (perhaps offtopic but just wanted to get this of my chest), I really think most people here know better and I'm not a racist but the gypsies have really given us Romanians a bad reputation throughout Europe (that's the thanks we get for allowing them to settle in our lands)

Well Romanians speak one of the 5 true children languages of latin, just the same way i can understand some spanish, french, and italian by knowing portuguese. :2thumbsup: Which helps so much with my classics studies!

Plus the Roma people come from india and its not what they call themselves, its what they are called. Not trying to be mean, i swear! :sweatdrop:


.. oh the Romani, asways getting a bad rep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

As far as the faction wishlist goes:
Remember that this game is set in 272BC and not Caesar's time. Some factions that Caesar fought or mentioned were not prominent in 272BC.

I wish I could comment on EB2 faction selection. Some guesses here are already set as future factions. But the new faction list is big surprise and top secret.

[Juvenal]

I would like to see the "Free Peoples" concept from Roma Surrectum used in EB, as explained in this post http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=70732.

It is a faction that is intermixed with the existing slave faction territories. It has the effect of simulating a lot of small factions much better then the rather supine slave faction.

I think it would bring a welcome freshness to EB Campaign progression. Currently the "rebel" regions are mere resources waiting for a faction to come and capture them. With the Free Peoples - the non-faction areas would have some life because the Free Peoples would be in constant conflict with the slave faction, and it would be strong enough to give any normal faction a run for its money without either side being wiped out.

The price for this mechanism is for one of the existing factions to become unplayable - but it could still be represented as a regional part of the Free Peoples.

[I Am Herenow]

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.

This gives me an idea!

I have a suggestion as to how to get 52 playable factions. Why not have two campaigns which are identical, except with Campaign A only the first 26 factions are playable, and with Campaign B the last 26 are playable. Sort of like what RTR 7.0 wants to do, except with two campaigns instead of 20.

With Kingdoms promising multiple campaigns, you could just have:


EB Main Campaign (A to L)
EB Main Campaign (M to Z)

in your main menu and, hey presto, 52 playable factions.

The only thing is, I'm not sure you'd be able to squeeze in a realistic amount of units for 52 factions with the same space you had for 21 or whatever factions, but anyway, here's my suggestion if you need it.

[Conqueror]

If any new hellenistic faction was to be added, I'd hope it to be the Bosporan Kingdom. Interesting and challenging location, nice combination of available units and a valuable trading partner (or rival) for the other factions that have access to the Black Sea.

A faction in the North Africa or along the Nile would be much needed spice to that part of the map, but may not be reasonable. Something is definetly needed in Central Europe to keep the Sweboz from swelling too much and the Romani from going north early. Perhaps the Boii would do the trick as has been suggested.

Beyond that, maybe add factions to British islands and the Iberian peninsula? Additional factions in the east and on the steppes wouldn't hurt either.

[Frodge]

Enough with the "Barbarian" factions, i say the Seres in the east, you could even use Sulek as their home city, it would work i say and as far as i remeber it would be historically accurate as the bactrians did have trading relations with them, so did the parthians, hell even the romans chatted to them later on.

[Andronikos]

there are many things pronounced like "schwabi", e.g. the font schwabach... and perhaps connected with suebi/sweboz - the land schwabia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwabia

[The Internet]

are you serious about thinking the Teutons were Germanic but the Suebi were not?! What are the Suebi then (Celtic? Thracian? Cimmerian?) in your theory which so many scholars disagree over? I'm quite fascinated because I've NEVER heard of this


Erm read that again, i said that all the scholars i've come across believe the Suebi to be a Germanic tribe. I'll try to type that our better next time to avoid confusion for those whose first language isn't English.

[Foot]

Erm read that again, i said that all the scholars i've come across believe the Suebi to be a Germanic tribe. I'll try to type that our better next time to avoid confusion for those whose first language isn't English.

How condescending are you!?

Seriously dude, your original sentence was damn complicated to read, I certainly couldn't understand it. Perhaps you should try to explain yourself better, instead of doing the above and insulting people because they couldn't understand what the hell you were saying.

Oh, and also, blitz's explanation of Suebi=Sweboz was useful and to be expected. If someone asks a question we generally give an answer and an explanation. You don't like it, don't post. It certainly isn't condescending to post an explanation along with the answer.

Foot

[Slim_Ghost]

I still think it would be great to add an Indian faction.

A justification is that in the campaign conquering India doesn't seem to be a stupendous feat for either Selukeia or Baktria. I mean, come on!All I need to do is deploy 2 levy phalangites at the gates and poke 000s of lousy naked Indians to death! If historically that is all I need to do, then Alexandros with his full arsenal of veteran Agyraspidai and Hetairoi would have expanded all the way to Indonesia and China!

Speaking about Indians, shouldn't there be elite units such as cataphracts and Ksatria warriors?What, don't tell me that the Indians have even less supply of iron than the Swebos! I have seen pictures of Indians in chain mail armor, riding horses clad in cataphract armor (correct me if I am wrong here).

If the EB team couldn't add more Indian provinces, then fine. They can just set Patala/Taksashila as the capital of Maurya Kingdome (or whatever else Indian kingdom). Then they can justify that the other Indian kingdoms to the east gave too high a resistance to capture.

[Thaatu]

@Foot and The Internet

I can't say this in words so I'll resort to smilies:

:scastle:


:stop:


~:grouphug:

...and the hippie is satisfied :hippie:

[Foot]

I still think it would be great to add an Indian faction.

A justification is that in the campaign conquering India doesn't seem to be a stupendous feat for either Selukeia or Baktria. I mean, come on!All I need to do is deploy 2 levy phalangites at the gates and poke 000s of lousy naked Indians to death! If historically that is all I need to do, then Alexandros with his full arsenal of veteran Agyraspidai and Hetairoi would have expanded all the way to Indonesia and China!

Speaking about Indians, shouldn't there be elite units such as cataphracts and Ksatria warriors?What, don't tell me that the Indians have even less supply of iron than the Swebos! I have seen pictures of Indians in chain mail armor, riding horses clad in cataphract armor (correct me if I am wrong here).

If the EB team couldn't add more Indian provinces, then fine. They can just set Patala/Taksashila as the capital of Maurya Kingdome (or whatever else Indian kingdom). Then they can justify that the other Indian kingdoms to the east gave too high a resistance to capture.

Well firstly, in our campaign you cannot conquer India, we don't have India on the map. We certainly won't be expanding our map to include India, so we certainly won't be including the Mauryan Kingdom (the idea of having their capital in an unhistorical location is certainly not EBs style).

However, we certainly want to do something in that area so whilst it won't be an empire, it will certainly expand the importance of that area.

Foot

[Wolfman]

Don't you have part of india on the map.

[abou]

A very, very small portion. If we were to expand, it would be completely unrepresentative of the subcontinent though due to how densely populated it was. You could probably have 15-20 cities in India alone, easily.

[Foot]

Don't you have part of india on the map.

Its hardly India. 3 border provinces, the conquest of which would hardly be considered a major dent in any Indian Empire.

Foot

[Sarkiss]

first, i would like to see Numidia. it was one of the key players in Punic wars. and certainly if we have Iberians as a faction we should have Numidians who imo were of more importance.
second, Galatia. beside historical reasons it'd put some preasure on AS's presence in Anatolia and will help little kingdoms such as Pontus, Armenia, Pahlava, by redirecting some of this beast's attention.

[Zaknafien]

More important? Come on, dude. I'm as much for the inclusion of a Numidian tribe as anyone, but it didnt take the Romans decades to conquer Jugurtha as it did with "the Iberians". Lets not get into trying to say one faction is "more important" than another.

[Bartix Elite Guard]

My Guesses for EB2

Erain
Lugii
Bosphoran Kingdom
Cyrene
Syracuse
Galatia
Khwarizm
Massilia
Pergamum
Palmyra

I would really like Rhodos. Doubt it will will happen though. Feel free to tell me if i'm way off.

[abou]

Well, we can't have Rhodes as an island by itself since it is already a memeber of the Koinon Hellenon.

[Brynjolfr]

I'd like to see a turkic tribe or two!

[blitzkrieg80]

Proto-Turks in 270BC? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Turks too, but maybe during a different timeline... Turks hardly show themselves from beyond Central Asia/Mongolia before the Yueh-chi or Hsiung-Nu, and the Yueh-chi are already decidely too late for the EB time period, nonetheless the many other cool steppe cultures.

Unless you mean Tocharians? Their culture was quite a mix, but if anything more Indo-European (ruling class/ language) rather than Turkic, although I'm sure Proto-Turks were present to a greater or lesser degree.

[Spoofa]

what about Aitolia?

[abou]

They never really did much besides cause trouble. Plus, they're sandwiched between Epeiros, Makedonia, and KH. They wouldn't do much in game besides get killed - something which can be easily represented by the eleutheroi.

[Spoofa]

lol good point :laugh4: I for one, am all for a Syracusai faction.

[burn_again]

The Tocharians? I've read somewhere that they were closely related to the celts...
I'd like to see more barbarian factions, I mean it's "Europa Barbarorum", not "Asia Graecorum". But I'll be fine with whatever the EB-team decides is historically appropriate. The Lugii would also be a good choice, with a mix of celtic and germanic units, but the EB starting date might be a bit too early for them - Stupid thing that there aren't more sources on european peoples at that time..
I wish I knew the faction list for EB2 - must be quite difficult to decide between historical evidence and gameplay compability...

[Brynjolfr]

Proto-Turks in 270BC? Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Turks too, but maybe during a different timeline... Turks hardly show themselves from beyond Central Asia/Mongolia before the Yueh-chi or Hsiung-Nu, and the Yueh-chi are already decidely too late for the EB time period, nonetheless the many other cool steppe cultures.

Unless you mean Tocharians? Their culture was quite a mix, but if anything more Indo-European (ruling class/ language) rather than Turkic, although I'm sure Proto-Turks were present to a greater or lesser degree.


Oh, I see... but what about baltic tribes? The baltic area feels very empty in EB.

[Ludens]

Oh, I see... but what about baltic tribes? The baltic area feels very empty in EB.
There are two major problems with including a Baltic tribe as a faction:
1) Very little is known about them
2) What is known suggest that there was nothing close to a large, unified power like the Suebi (Sweboz) conferderation. Although it is not inconceivable that a Baltic tribe might have grown big, they doen't seem to have had the potential for large-scale expansion and empire-building. As it is, there are far more likely candidates that haven't been included in EB. I admit the area is a bit bare, though. Would the Bastarnoz or the remaining Scythians qualify as a faction?

[Tellos Athenaios]

*Calls to fellow EB members*... some of the EB players do have a knack for recounting our internals polls, now don't they?

[Sarkiss]

More important? Come on, dude. I'm as much for the inclusion of a Numidian tribe as anyone, but it didnt take the Romans decades to conquer Jugurtha as it did with "the Iberians". Lets not get into trying to say one faction is "more important" than another.
perhaps i shouldnt have used a word as this. i still think however, that Numidians played a bigger role not only on a local but also on international scale. if it wasnt for Numidia would Carthage be destroyed at all?
pardon me though if word 'important' sounds inappropriate in such a delicate business as this. it meant no harm.

[russia almighty]

I'd rather see the current factions improved but another Iberian group , the Goildics , the Aorsi , Nubia , and the Garamantes or Numidia , one of the two.

[andrew]

Why not add a Slavic faction?
There's a free space west of Sarmatians, exactly where the old Slavs lived - today's east Poland, western Ukraine and parts of Belarus

[Zenith Darksea]

The problem I think with the Slavs is that almost nothing is known about them. If I could add another ten factions to EB, they would be:

1. Pergamon
2. Syrakousai
3. Nabataia
4. Numidia
5. Another Iberian tribe (I don't know their names, sorry!)
6. Belgae
7. Bastarnoz
8. Another Germanic tribe (Hattoz? Heruskoz? Maybe even the Helvetii? I don't know which would be best)
9. An Illyrian faction of some sort (the Ardiaioi?)
10. The Thracian Odrysai might be quite interesting...

[SaFe]

Well blitz, arguing the Teutonii being celtic is rather the minority of historical researchers.
The majority, as Frostwulf alrready mentioned, definately see them as germanic along the Cimbri and Ambroni.

I fear you going to include the Lugians as half celtic and half germanic.
Would not be my choice, but...
Any news on wolf and bear-warriors b.t.w.?
At least for EB2?

[KARTLOS]

would the nubians be able to fit entirely in the EB
map?

[FoxFreeze]

Personally, don't know about Goidils.

My two choices? Well, I'll start with my second favorite: Pergamum. They were considered one of the 'true' successor states of Alexander, at least how I was taught for my classics degree. So I think they're significance should warrant a faction slot in EB2.

As for the other faction, I believe no explanation is necessary.


We need Bartix.

[Urnamma]

Well blitz, arguing the Teutonii being celtic is rather the minority of historical researchers.
The majority, as Frostwulf alrready mentioned, definately see them as germanic along the Cimbri and Ambroni.

I fear you going to include the Lugians as half celtic and half germanic.
Would not be my choice, but...
Any news on wolf and bear-warriors b.t.w.?
At least for EB2?

Probably in EB1. Oops, you didn't hear that from me ;)

[KARTLOS]

would the nubians be able to fit entirely in the EB
map?

any thought on the nubians guys?

[KARTLOS]

Regarding pronounciation, how can some scholars say that our people (Romanians) have close to nothing in common with the Romans when I can understand the Italian language on TV and I can communicate with an Italian person without proper knowledge of the language just because of the many similar words in our languages. I've read about so many people (historians) judging our Latin heritage and it's really a bummer that the gypsies call themselves Rroma (so similar to Romanians) and the majority of EU and especially the people in UK think that we are all gypsies, (perhaps offtopic but just wanted to get this of my chest), I really think most people here know better and I'm not a racist but the gypsies have really given us Romanians a bad reputation throughout Europe (that's the thanks we get for allowing them to settle in our lands)

arent you all gypsies?

[KARTLOS]

I still think it would be great to add an Indian faction.

A justification is that in the campaign conquering India doesn't seem to be a stupendous feat for either Selukeia or Baktria. I mean, come on!All I need to do is deploy 2 levy phalangites at the gates and poke 000s of lousy naked Indians to death! If historically that is all I need to do, then Alexandros with his full arsenal of veteran Agyraspidai and Hetairoi would have expanded all the way to Indonesia and China!

Speaking about Indians, shouldn't there be elite units such as cataphracts and Ksatria warriors?What, don't tell me that the Indians have even less supply of iron than the Swebos! I have seen pictures of Indians in chain mail armor, riding horses clad in cataphract armor (correct me if I am wrong here).

If the EB team couldn't add more Indian provinces, then fine. They can just set Patala/Taksashila as the capital of Maurya Kingdome (or whatever else Indian kingdom). Then they can justify that the other Indian kingdoms to the east gave too high a resistance to capture.

ive never heard of indian cataphracts, do you have any links/pictures?

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The Nubians weren't too strong at this time period. They wouldn't be able to do much but put forth a futile effort against Ptolemai and get conquered. Plus they didn't have a huge selection of variety in their military. They would have like 5 different units. And yes, they would have been interested in areas outside the current map.

[Wolfman]

Will there at least be some more Nubian/Ethiopian units Like Nubian Archers? And Herodotus mentions some clubmen serving in Xerxes armies alongside the Archers and Spearmen.

[abou]

It comes down to priorities. New units for the new factions are much more important than one area of the map with all of two provinces. If there is room for them then great. If not... :shrug:

[Ludens]

arent you all gypsies?
No. Most Romanians I know get furious when you call them gypsies. There is a lot of bad blood between them.

[Redmeth]

I think Karltos was joking there but I wouldn't really call it bad blood but I'd wish they'd keep migrating and they do love the great western capitals but they get sent back because of citizenship :wall: . It's just these remnants of nomadic culture that are annoying like no respect for education (they don't send their kids to school after they are 14 years old, the bad taste in architecture etc.)

[bovi]

I also think it was meant to be a joke, but it was tasteless.

[Ravenfeeder]

I think the current faction roster is fine (as long as you can get the Getai to do something) and would prefer to see emergent factions.

Possibilities for those are:
Yuezhi
Numidia
Persians
Roman rebels (after Marian Reform)
Bosphoran Kingdom
Judean Rebel
Celtic/Germanic migrations
and a whole raft of other factions already mentioned in this thread.

You could possibly demote Pontos to an emerging faction as well.

[I Am Herenow]

Um, Pahlava = Persia, doesn't it? :S

[Ludens]

Um, Pahlava = Persia, doesn't it? :S
Not quite. The Persians were the original rulers of the area, while the Parthians were steppe nomads. They did take over a great deal Persian culture, but they had no real connection with the Empire that ruled there before Alexander the Great. In the second or third century A.D., the Parthians were overthrown by one of their Persian vassal, the Sassinids, who continued to rule in their stead. Apart from the name-change, this does not seem to have made great deal of difference (but I am hardly an expert). Doubtlessly, there would have been Persian uprisings against Seleucid rule, but as far as I know, caught between the Seleucids and the Parthians none of them had a big impact.

[I Am Herenow]

Um...right, so you want de facto Sassanids as a possible emerging faction, am I right?

[Morte66]

I'd like two:

1) A Helleno-Skythian faction on the north shore of the Black Sea.

I don't mind exactly who or where, so long as it mixes classical (non-phalanx) hoplites, horse archers, missile troops, and light and heavy cavalry from the steppe. I've found these medium-weight fluid armies very enjoyable to play, compared to the straightforward Hellenic heavy pike/lance combo or the repetetive slow attrition of the HA {edit: horse archer} armies. Furthermore, it's one of the more interesting strategic positions on the map -- many directions to expand, many types of enemy to face, and it might even be worth building a navy.

But there's no faction here, so one doesn't get the chance. I've had more fun migrating the Hai/Getai to this area than playing them on their home turf.

2) Syracuse.

Nothing like starting with your toes in the fire... Judging by the Eleutheroi city in EB1, this faction would start with quite a high population and infrastructure and enough economy to run a useful army, plus a good set of walls and (I think) siege technology. If you manage to take Sicily, you've got a base which could stand off Rome and Carthage and eventually go further. Given a ruler with an Alexander streak, Syracuse might change the course of history.

Also Syracuse is a name to conjure with -- e.g. I'd heard of Hannibal's siege of Syracuse long before I knew where the city was. It's a good opportunity to let the player do something amaziing.

Syracuse might die pretty easily as an AI faction, but I'd rather that factions were balanced to be played. {People on this forum seem a little obsessed with AI faction balancing, I think they sometimes miss the point that the game gets played by humans too.}

[I Am Herenow]

What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S

[Ludens]

Um...right, so you want de facto Sassanids as a possible emerging faction, am I right?
Er... No, I don't want the Sassinids as an emerging faction. What makes you think that? For one thing, they didn't emerge until way after EB's time-frame.


What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S
Horse archers. BTW, I would like to see a Bosporean Greek or Hellenized Scythian faction as well.

[Morte66]

What does HA mean? Hayasdan? :S

Horse archer. I'll edit.

I'm thinking in terms of gameplay, not history. This being a game, and not a flash-animated historical text.

[Ravenfeeder]

I don't want the Sassanids as an emerging faction. I want the possibility of a Persian faction emerging. These may come from the same area as the Sassanids did, but wouldn't be a Cataphract army as that culture hadn't reached Persis yet.

But that emerging faction list was just a heap of ideas thrown out there.

[I Am Herenow]

OK, now I understand! :beam:

[Foot]

Horse archer. I'll edit.

I'm thinking in terms of gameplay, not history. This being a game, and not a flash-animated historical text.

We think in terms of history, and that describes our gameplay. There of course a lot of Greek cities on the northern shores of the Black Sea, so you never know! They wouldn't have pikes though, they would have a more of a KH army.

Foot

[Foot]

I don't want the Sassanids as an emerging faction. I want the possibility of a Persian faction emerging. These may come from the same area as the Sassanids did, but wouldn't be a Cataphract army as that culture hadn't reached Persis yet.

But that emerging faction list was just a heap of ideas thrown out there.

We won't be using emerging factions, this was decided long ago.

Foot

[Morte66]

We think in terms of history, and that describes our gameplay.

Yep. I sometimes wish you'd think more in terms of "what could have happened" than "what actually happened" in an interactive medium like computer games. But it's your mod, and I enjoy it, so it's no biggie. :)


They wouldn't have pikes though,

That's why I like 'em. I find the successor heavy pike phalanx + heavy cavalry armies a bit "blunt implement", I enjoy the fluid hoplite/missile/cavalry armies more.


they would have a more of a KH army.

But with good cavalry and horse archers! And their neighbours wouldn't be all successor-style armies, they'd have a much wider mix of opponents. And they wouldn't get a license to print money by knocking over 2 Epeirote + 3 Macedonian cities in the first five years.

[Foot]

Yep. I sometimes wish you'd think more in terms of "what could have happened" than "what actually happened" in an interactive medium like computer games. But it's your mod, and I enjoy it, so it's no biggie. :)

Er... we do, we just fly off into bizarre speculation. If we are concerned with what did happen, Hayasdan and all the other factions, who never expanded much, would be very uninteresting to play. We limit ourselves to safe speculation from the historical facts we do have. But "what could have happened" is a very large area of speculation, you don't like ours? fine, but we are not as uncreative as you seem to think.

In fact, I will prove you wrong in a very big and very important way soon enough. Just watch out for the next preview. :beam:

Foot

[I Am Herenow]

In fact, I will prove you wrong in a very big and very important way soon enough. Just watch out for the next preview. :beam:

Oh, the suspense!

But are you referring to the next EB1 preview or the next EB2 Stele?

What does "Stele" actually mean BTW?

[Brasidas]

Well in theory M2TW game engine allows 52 factions, but only 26 can be playable.If you go with only 31 faction than all are playable.Don't know how they came up with that.

What about idea of rebel counterparts of your faction. IMHO it was very challenging in BI. Possibility of civil war gives you permanent threat regardless of your international successes. Why don't keep this challenge alive?

I hate this feeling, when my game loses his momentum. You know that feeling too I guess. It happens when you finish struggling in the beginning of the game, settle your economy and... you are doomed to boring conquering ;)

Imagine these AI active, tough and agressive rebellions could be programmed to ally with your enemies (maybe as protectorate) or to takeover your territory.

Emerging of rebellions could be connected with traits of your family members or antagonisms inside family (eg. spartans versus athenians in KH or hellens versus persians in Pontus).

So, don't spawn factions... God save me from my friends - I can protect myself from my enemies. ;)

[abou]

I think the game needs an Inuit faction.

[SouthernTrendKill]

Get a Scandinavian Faction there in place of Denmark; and in like farther north nations. Like a pre-Saxon team but farther north???

[Tellos Athenaios]

I think the game needs an Inuit faction.

Yeah. That would be cool! ~:snowman:

[Tellos Athenaios]

What does "Stele" actually mean BTW?

Columm.

Wikipedia is yer friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stele.

[KARTLOS]

I think Karltos was joking there but I wouldn't really call it bad blood but I'd wish they'd keep migrating and they do love the great western capitals but they get sent back because of citizenship :wall: . It's just these remnants of nomadic culture that are annoying like no respect for education (they don't send their kids to school after they are 14 years old, the bad taste in architecture etc.)

i was indeed!

[KARTLOS]

I also think it was meant to be a joke, but it was tasteless.

how was it tastless?

[bovi]

It was tasteless because it was not funny, and prone to offend.

[Zarax]

Add my vote to some kind of bosphoran greek kingdom.

Massilia (although historically quite limites) would also be nice, maybe (if historically plausible) in league with emporion.
With a mix of celtic, hellenic and iberian units it would be quite interesting to play and most of the roster is already in place...

[Jaywalker-Jack]

A different approach to slowing down the Sweboz expansion - give them their own culture. Instead of the blanket "barbarian" culture, it could be split into Celtic, Iberian, Germanic, Dacian, Baltic/Slavic and so on. Additionaly the culture penalty to settlement happiness could be increased. For a long time Germanic expansion southwards was blocked by the Volcae, who were Celts living in what is now central Germany.
(An interesting aside - as a result "Volcae" entered the Germanic languages as the word for "foreigner". "Wales" actualy gets its name from this root - the Anglo-Saxons referring to it as the territory controlled by the foreigners.)

As for new factions, Nubia would be interesting. Kush was historically a strong regional player, even controlling Eygpt at times. Taharqa was a black pharoah, mentioned in the Bible. I don't know how important the Nubians were by the games starting point though...
Another minor problem is the characters would require new portraits to accurately depict a sub-saharan african people.

Numidia should be there, historically theyr important, but they present a bit of hassle on the culture front. They were not a Semitic people, so the developers have two options - 1: Give them a "Berber" culture to themselves or 2: Make a new "African" culture for Numidia and Carthage and lump the Sabaens in with the "Eastern" factions.

I doubt there'l be a Galatian faction because the EB team are big on historical accuracy, and historicaly the Galatians were never united under one ruler.

[Anthony]

I doubt there'l be a Galatian faction because the EB team are big on historical accuracy, and historicaly the Galatians were never united under one ruler.

What are you basing that on? Galatia was ruled by a council of the leaders of the three big tribes that made up the country. It was a single power sub-divided into three large tribal desmenses, but all of those tribes followed along with the same head council. Also, when they aligned themselves with the Romans and became a Roman protectorate, the Romans selected from among them a man to be their over king.

[I Am Herenow]

Johnny5, I can't comment on the rest of your suggestions, but I know the Total War games have certain hardcoded limits (i.e. ones which modders can't change): things such as the maximum number of provinces, the maximum number of factions and, indeed, the maximum number of different cultures. Therefore the EB team has to work within a fixed limit, which does go up by 1 I believe from RTW to M2, and with any luck might increase for Kingdoms as well.

[Zarax]

Ok, after reading a bit about them, I'd like to post my vote for a new faction:

The balares.

The balares were one of the most important nuragic tribes in Sardinia during the 3rd and 2nd century BC, controlling most of interior Sardinia.
Before the punic wars they were an important ally of Carthage, trading grain, olive oil, wine and the occasional mercenary contingent.

After the 1st punic war they were the de facto sole owners of Sardinia, with the carthaginian garrison slaughtered by the mercenary revolt they in turn pushed the mercenaries out of Sardinia.

After the roman tried to seize control of Sardinia they put a stiff resistance using guerrilla warfare with great success, even after they lost at Cornus.
In many ways they were like th Iberians and in fact some of the western tribes of Sardinia were of iberian origin, while in the east they had significant ties with the Etruscans.

They would start in control of central Sardinia (if a settlement could be spared from there) with Tiscali or Nukor (alternatively western sardinia with Tharros or North with Turris but those were under punic influence) as capital.

Their roster would be based on light infantry with ambush tactics, mostly spearmen, archers and axemen with the nobles being the heavier units.
Sadinian ponies at the time were not apt for field battles being used to mountainous terrain so they would start with little or no native cavalry.

Their area of expansion would be the western mediterranean, with Sardinia, Corsica, eastern Iberia and the former etruscan areas of Italy.

Getting out of History for a second and shrouding in myth, here is a little link that will stir some debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Location_hypotheses_of_Atlantis#Sardinia

[Boyar Son]

Did all the old EB fans move to EB2 forums?...


plz include an alpine faction...

[Demon Eyes Kyo]

i would like to see the greeks split up some more. make athens and sparta not apart of the same faction, also the greek faction in the balkans to include more lands, seeing how the greeks colonized almost all of the shores of the black sea.

[Zarax]

If you want to see more greeks at least in RTW then XGM could be your cup of tea...

[KuKulzA]

to add to the current faction list?

I would say something to give the Carthaginians and Egyptains to fight in Africa, perhaps another eastern faction, and someone to stop the Sweboz from overrunning everyone else. Also the Illyrians seem to be a very interesting group, i think it'd be worth looking into that...

perhaps...

Chatti / Chasuarii = Germanic rival faction to Sweboz
Illyria / Dalmatae / Scodrans = Illyrian faction to pose problems for later Romans and Eporite expansion
Cyrenaica / Libya = pose commercial and military rival of Kart-hadast and Ptolemaioi
Chandraguptan /NW India = pose a problem for Sleucids and Baktrians trying to expand into India, but they should beware of potential Saka or Parthian invasion

These will probably be small factions so some perks should be considered...

perhaps the Chatti can have a slightly different set of units from the Sweboz, and as their military organization was known so perhaps this can be shown through increase discipline and better supplying of armies?
Illyria can perhaps have the best (cheapest?) navy of all barbarian factions and make use of the Thracian peltasti style of warfare, the Greek style of hoplites, as well as their own? They will of course begin somewhat weak, like the Getai.

Cyrenaica can be a greek influenced trade-power. With a unique blend of many native libyans auxiliaries and greeks.
Chandraguptans will have the great repetoire of Indian armies and can have a homeland arrangement where they get missions and bonuses from the off-map capital of Pataliputra


looking back in this thread I have foudn that these 4 have been mentioned but I don't know how well they will be recieved... but thats another vote for Indian, Chatti, Illyria, and Cyrene! :yes:

I had posted it in the wrong thread

[larsbecks]

I'd like to see:
Numidians, Cyrenacians for more action in Africa
2nd faction in Britain/Ireland for more action in the British Isles
Anothey probably won't be made.
Illyrians.
And people seem to like Syracusans, which would be fun since they have room to expand.er Germanic faction. Plus one more from Gaul and one from Iberia.
A faction between the Sauromatae and Getae.
Indian faction, though th

I wouldn't mind some unit overlap since the skinning team does such a good job in keeping things looking unique though they are the same unit underneath.

[Aeyamar]

Factions I'd like in EBII:
(ranked from most want to least want

Illyria
Chauci
India (This would be somewhat interesting because at about 270BC almost all of India was united under the Mauryan Dynasty, making the faction a big player from the start. I doubt this one will be possible though)
Numidia
Chatti
Celtiberians
Brigantes

[Rundownloser]

Galatia
Pergamon
Two Numidian Tribes
Bastarnae
Boii
Belgae
Bosporan Kingdom
Another German Tribe (anything to stall them)

and if there's nothing else, then Syracuse:laugh4:

[Haedarmkm]

Well I think it's a Galatian faction will be great is they have a high bulding levels and if they have super units. One or two emergent faction(s) in Asis and Europe in middle of the game .

[Christianus]

I think there should be more factions to the north as well. Norway would in my opinion be the best.

[Ludens]

I think there should be more factions to the north as well. Norway would in my opinion be the best.
Norway? Although I am not very sure about the tribes north of the Cimbri, I don't think there was an entity that could be identified as Norway in 272 B.C. Could you explain who were in this area and why they were important in this era?

[bovi]

That's an interesting question. I have not heard or read a word about "my" area in this period. I would guess we know pretty much nothing as they did not have any written material AFAIK, and noone who did write cared to go so far north into the cold to get to know them... I think the runes were a millenium later, at least the vikings were using them. Also a millenium later was the uniting of the country by Harald Hårfagre. At any rate, I don't think we have anything to base a faction on.

[Krusader]

Indeed.

In history classes I'm taking at the University the curriculum on Norwegian history starts around 800 AD.

[Charge]

My advise: another east-german tribe (goths maybe), and illyria/thrace on balkans. As I don't like playing as "God", I suggest to divide rome in 2 playable factions (Julii and pro-senate faction) and ,if senate works in m2tw, add senate. Such thing can be doned with carthage and greek cities. The rest of slots can be used for emergent/shadow factions to enhance gameplay

The areas of "civil" wars (gaul, greece, rome) needs more factions to emulate this possible civil wars.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

The "Senate" was part of the vanilla 'silliness' that EB has endevoured to move away from. There won't be a Senate again in EB.

[Kepper]

Are there any planes for Papel Sates

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

It will be removed and the slot will be used for a real playable faction.

[Parkev]

Could the papal election be used to replicate the crowning of a Celtic King (which my understanding is, was based on ability rather than hereditary factors) . I guess it comes down to whether the faction can be replicated for each Celtic Kingdom, or a script that makes the Papal States the playable faction (ie changing relevant files before beginning the relevant Celtic campaign, a bit like what I think RTR are doing with 7.0)

[Foot]

Could the papal election be used to replicate the crowning of a Celtic King (which my understanding is, was based on ability rather than hereditary factors) . I guess it comes down to whether the faction can be replicated for each Celtic Kingdom, or a script that makes the Papal States the playable faction (ie changing relevant files before beginning the relevant Celtic campaign, a bit like what I think RTR are doing with 7.0)

I imagine there are too many hardcoded factors around the papal states to make that viable. besides, many factions could use a similar system. With all likelihood we will rename it so we can reuse it as a normal faction.

Foot

[SouthernTrendKill]

Christianus, thank god you think there should be a northern faction.
Also for a German faction, the Teutonic tribe might be the best, they almost made Germany/Germania. For the most part from what I have heard they were a dominate tribe in Germania. They worked along side other tribes and attacked Rome as well.

[SouthernTrendKill]

Also Krusader*, Scandinavian "history" starts before German history fyi, just in case you had no knowledge of the fact Germans came form Scandinavians tribes and people. Thats your history lesson.
The fact there is less Scandinavians history is based on what romans could find etc... But they had there own history before Germanic tribes of the time; I think you might should have worded your statement a little differently???

[bovi]

Also Krusader*, Scandinavian "history" starts before German history fyi, just in case you had no knowledge of the fact Germans came form Scandinavians tribes and people. Thats your history lesson.
The fact there is less Scandinavians history is based on what romans could find etc... But they had there own history before Germanic tribes of the time; I think you might should have worded your statement a little differently???

What's wrong with "In history classes I'm taking at the University the curriculum on Norwegian history starts around 800 AD."? It's accurate, we don't learn anything of the history before that in schools.

[Krusader]

Also Krusader*, Scandinavian "history" starts before German history fyi, just in case you had no knowledge of the fact Germans came form Scandinavians tribes and people. Thats your history lesson.
The fact there is less Scandinavians history is based on what romans could find etc... But they had there own history before Germanic tribes of the time; I think you might should have worded your statement a little differently???

I said the curriculum starts around 800 AD. And I do know Germans came from Scandinavia or at least that is the main theory (there are many theories on ethnicities of peoples). Maybe you should have read my statement a little differently?

[KozaK13]

more aggresive sarmatae,another germanic tribe, an indian kingdom to challenge baktrian dominance in the region, another baltic/dalmatian faction and ofc another briton tribe

[Parkev]

I imagine there are too many hardcoded factors around the papal states to make that viable. besides, many factions could use a similar system. With all likelihood we will rename it so we can reuse it as a normal faction.

Foot

Damn hard codes:thumbsdown: , but you must just get lucky and find a viable work around to the automatic heir system in MTW2 :juggle2:

[Bootsiuv]

A scandinavian faction would also have to be a faction that starts out at the edge of the map. Factions like that have an unfair advantage. Considering this is a historical mod, I don't think adding more factions a'la Saka Rauka would be a great thing.

[Morte66]

A scandinavian faction would also have to be a faction that starts out at the edge of the map. Factions like that have an unfair advantage.

But the real Scandinavia does start at the edge of the map. I mean, it's almost surrounded by water. I don't think this unhistorical/unrealistic strategic advantage for a Scandinavian faction really exists. They'd have an advantage maybe, but it wouldn't be unhistorical/unrealistic.

Now the objection that there wasn't anyone around worth making into a faction, or any historical information to build them with, that makes excellent sense.

[CaesarAugustus]

What about freeing another satrapy from the Seleukids in the east, similar to Baktria's independence at the start of the game? I remember that being proposed on the forums a few months ago but i dont know if it has been ruled out like the Indians. Their competition would probably ease the problems players are having with the "Grey death", and Baktria wouldn' have total dominance over the Far East, either. Another german faction and maybe the Belgae too would solve the expanding Sweboz problem.

edit: I've probably said this before but since the mauryas are not being represented as a faction a couple of huge rebel stacks should spawn when an indian province is taken to represent the indian's resistance to their cities being conquered. A trans-subcontinental empire isn't just going to meekly allow one of their satrapies to be taken without a fight. I don't know if this is possible though.....

[Zarax]

Quick and dirty solutions for map borders: make them with high unrest/rebellion rates so that whoever occupies them has to put large garrisons, it's not perfect but better than nothing as abstract emulation...

[Morte66]

edit: I've probably said this before but since the mauryas are not being represented as a faction a couple of huge rebel stacks should spawn when an indian province is taken to represent the indian's resistance to their cities being conquered. A trans-subcontinental empire isn't just going to meekly allow one of their satrapies to be taken without a fight. I don't know if this is possible though.....

I remember you suggesting that before. It seems like an excellent idea. You take an Indian city from the Eleutheroi, and big stacks spawn and try to take it back, and if you fend them off you get to keep the city. Maybe they could spawn after 1/2/4/8/16 etc years to represent the Mauryas kicking hard at first and gradually accepting that they lost those areas.

[Son of Perun]

I guess these factions will not make it to EB2(though they are popular):
Numidians - not united enough, never had ambitons or oportuniti to build empire
Illirians - same as Numidians
Syracuse - between carthagian anvil and roman hammer
northern Germanic faction - no place to expand
Cyrene - too weak to be real danger to either Ptolemies or Carthage
Galatians - powerful mercenaries but otherwise band of robbers
Meroe - (my beloved :egypt: ) only 2 possible units (who said this!?)
Persians - there was no real opposition to Seleucids in 272 BC
Yuezhi - arrived about 50 years after the game starts

[bovi]

I've probably said this before but since the mauryas are not being represented as a faction a couple of huge rebel stacks should spawn when an indian province is taken to represent the indian's resistance to their cities being conquered. A trans-subcontinental empire isn't just going to meekly allow one of their satrapies to be taken without a fight. I don't know if this is possible though.....
It's hard to get an eleutheroi army to be aggressive in a non-eleutheroi province. There has been talk about representing the Mauryan presence though I'm not sure if it can be made for the next release, or if it will ever work as we want it to.

[Morte66]

I guess these factions will not make it to EB2(though they are popular):
Syracuse - between carthagian anvil and roman hammer

The rest I agree, but Syracuse don't seem so flimsy if you examine them carefully.

As an AI faction, they already do pretty well (they usually last longer than Pontos for example). Not that I think that's especially important -- the game is there to be played, not watched.

Now as a player faction they look very interesting... Going by EB1 they're a big city with passable economy and army. There is one medium-grade Carthaginian army to beat, and then they can potentially have the whole of Sicily which is rich and defensible at an excellent choke point. Then there's a two province Eleutheroi buffer towards Rome. And there are potentially mines on Corsica/Sardinia, which are held by pretty harmless isolated garrisons.

With Carthage out of Sicily they can make peace; and by the time they fight Rome they need not be so outnumbered.

It beats Pontos/Pergamon/Galatia, who border Seleucids from the start and will get no relief until the AS is destroyed.

[Zarax]

Plus it may have one or two interesting units, like gastraphetes (which I believe they were still used by them)...

[Bootsiuv]

I'm a little disappointed to hear that Syracuse has been dismissed. I do wish they would be reconsidered and not be counted out simply for gameplay reasons.

I'm fairly certain that I could take Syracuse and do well. The gameplay concerns raised about small factions squeezed in between superpowers applies much less to them than a faction like Cyrene or Pergamon, both of which I've argued for.

I understand that we don't want too many greek factions, but there are really two camps: Hellenistic Factions (Ptolemaioi, Makedonia, etc.), and then they're is the more classic Factions, of which they're is only one right now, that being KH. I think at least one more classic greek faction, preferably centered in the Western Med, would give EB2 a much needed small faction in the west that isn't barbarian.

[PSYCHO V]

I'd rather see the Goildics .....

Lol ... wouldn't surprise me seeing as EB was intent on including Goildic units at the behest of one. May as well included the French, Portugese and Genoans, etc :laugh4:

[glouch]

what if you ask CA nicely if they could teach you how to turn the faction and unit limits off? just a thought :)

[Tellos Athenaios]

No, we won't be able to do that. It's part of the deepest internals of RTW; so all we can ask CA nicely is do it for us.

However. I do think there is a reason behind the faction limit. And that reason probably is something CA would rather not expose; I imagine it being something with the way the engine uses PC resources...

[bovi]

They've said this openly. They allocate the resources regardless of whether they're used or not, so they want to limit it in order to keep system requirements down.

[Tellos Athenaios]

May as well included the French, Portugese and Genoans, etc :laugh4:

Je ne le comprends pas d'aucun point?

If my eyes do not deceive me... anyhow my eyes must've gone backwards with yet another leap 'caus I can't see no such post as you were quoting?

[Tellos Athenaios]

They allocate the resources regardless of whether they're used or not, so they want to limit it in order to keep system requirements down.

Which is entirely understandable. :yes:

[Cadwalader]

Another steppe faction? There's lots of little rebel states around the Saka's lands. Mainland Belgae? Heruskoz?

I think Scandinavia is out of question, sadly. We didn't exactly have anything to boast about. We did have a magnificent bronze age, but now they've found out that everything came from down south.:no:

[The Celtic Viking]

I'd personally love a Scandinavian tribe, and the argument of them having an unfair advantage because they'd be at the edge of the map is silly. Look at Casse for crying out loud! All it has to do is to defeat the Eleutheroi there, and then it can't be destroyed unless the player is someone else and decides to sail there. God knows the AI never will. An AI faction could always destroy a Scandinavian one... unless that one is the player, and he/she migrated to Britain. Yet I don't hear you complaining about "Casse's unfair advantage", why?

That being said, there won't be a Scandinavian faction in game. There's just a lot more other possible factions that had a bigger impact on history, that we know much more about etc. So, while it would be completely awesome to have one (and the best position would of course be SWEDEN, not Norway :laugh4:), there won't. We'll always be left out... except perhaps in Empire: Total War? :idea2: Sweden just gots to be in there.

As for the new factions in EB2, I'd hope for...

- Another Germanic tribe to rival the Sweboz
- Belgae!
- A faction to rival Casse... which we're getting. :2thumbsup:
- No bloody Syracuse!
- Sequani? I've just grown to love the name, 's'all.
- A Baltic faction? I know the arguments against it (I have read this whole thread), but I still think it's too Eleutheroi-based.
- Galatians! Show the clever-clever Greeks that the Celts reign supreme!
- Bartix!
- Anything that has no argument for it that has anything to do with the curse "Rome".

... what?

[azzbaz]

If you want to make it harder for the Sweboz you could add the Heruskoz tribe whom were basically the forerunners of the Franks. They were pretty major around the 1st Century AD under Arminius. They halted Roman advance in Germania. I dont see why you havent already gottem

[Krusader]

If you want to make it harder for the Sweboz you could add the Heruskoz tribe whom were basically the forerunners of the Franks. They were pretty major around the 1st Century AD under Arminius. They halted Roman advance in Germania. I dont see why you havent already gottem

You just answered your own question. They were a major power outside EBs time frame.

[Watchman]

By what I know of Scandinavian history of the relevant period, a faction based up here would be more or less Right Out for the exact same reasons as all the Baltic and mainland Germanic tribes except the Sweboz - Way Too Small And Unorganized(tm). Heck, in the northern part of the region hunter-gatherers were still the norm...
An utter backwater is an utter backwater, no two ways about it.

Methinks something in the somewhat empty Ukraine/Crimea region would be interesting, like maybe the Scythian remnants or the Crimean cities. Unless that nerfed the Sauromatae too badly of course...

[IrishArmenian]

I imagine there are too many hardcoded factors around the papal states to make that viable. besides, many factions could use a similar system. With all likelihood we will rename it so we can reuse it as a normal faction.

Foot
Well, you could make it so that the faction doesn't have a family tree.

[azzbaz]

Etruscans? They still had a little bit of power in Northern Etruria at 272BC
Volsinii fell to the Romans in 265BC
plus they had a unique culture, language and military you could give 'em a city or two

[azzbaz]

264BC sorry

[Kampfkrebs]

me!
- Bartix!

... what?

Damn you got it :/

[Son of Perun]

What about a north african faction like Meroe? It wasn't conquered by Greeks nor was it by Romans and it was an unique civilisation with ancient Egyptian traditions. :egypt:

[Elminster12]

What about a north african faction like Meroe? It wasn't conquered by Greeks nor was it by Romans and it was an unique civilisation with ancient Egyptian traditions. :egypt:
Did they expand, or, at the very least, attempt to do so? If not, then they're automatically disqualified, according to the criteria I've seen various team members use in explaining the inclusion of factions...

[abou]

Yeah, definitely not Meroe. They didn't have the military capability - completely below the military horizon.

[Son of Perun]

Yeah, definitely not Meroe. They didn't have the military capability - completely below the military horizon.
That's unfair. Lusonattan did not expand as well. Meroe certainly had the military capapability. I've found this in Wikipedia:
Rome's capture of Egypt led to border clashes and expansion by both Meroë and Rome. Meroë usually came off the better, even looting a head from a statue of the emperor Augustus and burying it under their temple steps.

And to their economy:
Meroë was the base of a flourishing kingdom whose wealth was due to strong iron industry, plus an international trade involving India and China. At the time, iron was one of the most researched metals worldwide, and Meroitic metalworkers were among the best in the world.. Meroë also exported textiles and jewelry. Textiles were based on cotton, and working on it reached its achievement in Nubia around 400BC. Furthermore, Nubia was very rich in gold.

And Meroe also fits into EB timeframe (The capital of Kushite kingdom moved from Napata to Meroe in 300BC).

[azzbaz]

I reckon you should include the Hattoz(Chatti) and Heruskoz(Cherusci) because they were in the same boat as the Aedui and Arverni being arch nemesis. It would be a nice setup having Aedui fighting it out with the Arverni, and then them fighting the Belgae as well, and then up in Germania having the Hattoz and Heruskoz in an eternal struggle with the Sweboz there as well.
Im pretty sure you'll have the Belgae, but just keep in mind the Hattoz and Heruskoz as well.
Your time frames somewhere between 272BC-14AD isn't it? Therefore they'd just fit in the time frame.
I know a fair bit about them too if youd want some info.

[Sarcasm]

That's unfair. Lusonattan did not expand as well.

You'd do well to speak only of what you know.

Long live the wikipedia generation.

[Krusader]

That's unfair. Lusonattan did not expand as well. Meroe certainly had the military capapability. I've found this in Wikipedia:
Rome's capture of Egypt led to border clashes and expansion by both Meroë and Rome. Meroë usually came off the better, even looting a head from a statue of the emperor Augustus and burying it under their temple steps.

And to their economy:
Meroë was the base of a flourishing kingdom whose wealth was due to strong iron industry, plus an international trade involving India and China. At the time, iron was one of the most researched metals worldwide, and Meroitic metalworkers were among the best in the world.. Meroë also exported textiles and jewelry. Textiles were based on cotton, and working on it reached its achievement in Nubia around 400BC. Furthermore, Nubia was very rich in gold.

And Meroe also fits into EB timeframe (The capital of Kushite kingdom moved from Napata to Meroe in 300BC).

You could have just written "I want a black faction".

And Wikipedia? That's a magnet for afro-centrists, nationalists, revisionalists, nazi, white supremacists etc. Although their Nubia article doesn't seem affected by it, however Nubians basically had two types of troops. Archers & Spearmen. And their only interest was to keep Nubia secure, even though they did clash with the Ptolemies & Romans.

And Lusitanians? They gave the Romans a run for their money, so much that Iberia was virtually Rome's Vietnam for over 200 years.

There are simply other factions more deserving a spot atm, but if we had more than 30 faction slots Meroe would very likely be among those.

[Son of Perun]

You could have just written "I want a black faction".
From this side it seems that there is a rule "No black factions".



And Wikipedia? That's a magnet for afro-centrists, nationalists, revisionalists, nazi, white supremacists etc. Although their Nubia article doesn't seem affected by it, however Nubians basically had two types of troops. Archers & Spearmen. And their only interest was to keep Nubia secure, even though they did clash with the Ptolemies & Romans.

Well, I'm not an afro-centrist, nationalist, revisionalist, nazi or white supremacist. And to Meroe unit roster: You could simplify every faction to basic units. Rome=legionaries, Successor=phallanx + cavalery... But I see there is no will to find out more about them.



And Lusitanians? They gave the Romans a run for their money, so much that Iberia was virtually Rome's Vietnam for over 200 years.

Lusitanians were defeated, Meroe wasn't.



There are simply other factions more deserving a spot atm, but if we had more than 30 faction slots Meroe would very likely be among those.

I really think Meroe would deserve one of them.

[Foot]

From this side it seems that there is a rule "No black factions".

Nope, but we don't include factions on the grounds that it would be cool or that it would be politically correct to represent all ethnicities.



Well, I'm not an afro-centrist, nationalist, revisionalist, nazi or white supremacist. And to Meroe unit roster: You could simplify every faction to basic units. Rome=legionaries, Successor=phallanx + cavalery... But I see there is no will to find out more about them.


He wasn't saying you were. He was saying that evidence from wikipedia really has no place in this discussion. And we certainly are interested in Meroe, we've had the discussion I believe, but it was decided that due to the lack of evidence we couldn't make any differentiation in the military beyond archer and spearmen.



Lusitanians were defeated, Meroe wasn't.

Because the Lusotannan were constantly attacked for 200 years by the Roman military machine. The same wasn't true of Meroe.



I really think Meroe would deserve one of them.

Based on what? It seems that you've only read wikipedia. Get some proper books on the subject and then come back.

Foot

[Son of Perun]

OK, I agree that my knowledge on this subject is rather limited.

It seems that it has already been decided which factions will go to EB2.

[Foot]

OK, I agree that my knowledge on this subject is rather limited.

It seems that it has already been decided which factions will go to EB2.

For the most part, they have been decided. Yes.

Foot

[Son of Perun]

For the most part, they have been decided. Yes.

Foot

So which new factions will be in EB2? Or is it another TOP SECRET issue?

[Foot]

So which new factions will be in EB2? Or is it another TOP SECRET issue?

Well we're not going to tell the fans! That's preview material, that is.

Foot

[Charge]

Really hope that you aren't going to do any mistakes with them.

BTW, heres my unfinished faction list::smug2:
German fact. - Ubii, Teutons, Goths, Suevi;
Gaullic fact. - Aedui, Arverni, Belgae, Ligures;
Spain - Lusitans, Iberi, Celtiberi;
Africa - Carthage, Numidia, Egypt;
Italia - 2 Roman factions (like optimates and democrats, to allow civil war);
Greece - Macedonia, Epirus, Greek_cities (????);
East- Seleucids, Pontus, Armenia, Parthia, Pergumum, Bactria;
Others- Dacia, Scythia, Sarmatia, Britons, Illyria.
UNFINISHED
Date 272 b.c.

[Zaknafien]

We will not include a second Roman faction at the expense of another full playable faction. Its just not something we will do in EB unless the hard-coded limits were raised drastically. I understand the appeal of a Roman civil war, but its just not fair to other factions.

[Charge]

This was just my faction list, which I plans to include in my mod (which is suddenly again is EB unofficial modding project~:wave: ). I would like you to look at my barbarian factions.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Huh?!

-You don't seem to have heard of the 30 faction limit.
-Why do you post your own daughter mod info in a thread aimed at speculating about the mother mod? Why not create a thread of your own? Save's me the :inquisitive:
-And for that matter why work on such things if you don't know what part of your work will be covered by EB already before you start on it? Even more important: you don't know what your platform (EB mod) is going to be like as far as the technical matters go. So you don't have a basis to work on - and won't have for quite some time because we haven't given any such things away yet.

Conclusion: it's a lil' early for creating your own minimod on top of a mod that's not out yet...

As far as your faction list goes:
-I very much enjoy the EB style of naming things like their respective owners would've done back then; and you happen to chose that awful Latinized version pack of the orginials. But that's matter of taste.
-As far as your new factions go: you've plunged into some of the most difficult to research; and you have shifted the emphasis very strongly to Western Europe. This means that many of your factions might just end up decimating each other instead of giving the Eleutheroi a different colour from dirt white.
-I don't know much about them; so can't comment on them any further, really.

[Charge]

-I don't know much about them; so can't comment on them any further, really.
But I'll reply anyway ...:inquisitive:

-You don't seem to have heard of the 30 faction limit.

Oops... removed can be Sarmatia.


-Why do you post your own daughter mod info in a thread aimed at speculating about the mother mod? Why not create a thread of your own? Save's me the

To help you - don't you see? Why post mine thread if main mod only in developing..


-And for that matter why work on such things if you don't know what part of your work will be covered by EB already before you start on it? Even more important: you don't know what your platform (EB mod) is going to be like as far as the technical matters go. So you don't have a basis to work on - and won't have for quite some time because we haven't given any such things away yet.

I'm sure you're going to mod M2TW, don't you?:grin: Basis and all necessary will be when you did your job. My work now is research, that's what I'm doing right now.


-I very much enjoy the EB style of naming things like their respective owners would've done back then; and you happen to chose that awful Latinized version pack of the orginials. But that's matter of taste.

Yes, I will use Latin. names. As I said my mod going to be more friendly to average gamer. (Also I don't know how new factions will be named in your style)


-As far as your new factions go: you've plunged into some of the most difficult to research; and you have shifted the emphasis very strongly to Western Europe. This means that many of your factions might just end up decimating each other instead of giving the Eleutheroi a different colour from dirt white.

Hm, maybe I should give you map_regions(not made yet) to evidently show appointment of all new factions? Most important factions are :
Illyria (to prevent expand Epirus, Romans, Macedonia on a north; and Dacians to the west);
Ligures ( to allow romans fight cisalpine gaul, but don't hurt main gauls);
...................rest factions was added to simulate regional power, or culture centre (if we have slots).
For example germans :
West-germans (main tribes - Suevi (Germinones, don't know exactly name), Teutons (Ingevones), Ubii (Istevones, more cultural);
East-germans : Goths;
I skipped Scandinavian germans.
As of moving emphasis to the west - east contains less factions but they are huge, west contains more factions which aren't so powerful. From what I've learn this was in real life...:inquisitive:

[Bellum]

I have to agree with the new African faction idea. So much empty space! And, if I'm not mistaken, even Rome in all of it's glory had problems holding North Africa west of Egypt.

[Wolfman]

Which is why if Meroe is not being implemented that there should be the two numidian factions. From what I read they were a thorn in both rome and carthages backsides

[Charge]

No, this backsides was in almost every country. If we have unlimited faction list, then even each tribe separately, but we haven't...:wall:

[Zaknafien]

The problem with Meroe is that their unit selection would be very poor, and they would be quickly dominated by the Ptolemies. Not a very good choice for game balance.

[azzbaz]

In my eyes these are the new factions you should have

1.Heruskoz= Made Rome think twice about conquering Germania. Were very good at ambushing. They were led by formidibale warlords called Drighten.
Were rivals of the Hattoz just like the Aedui and Arverni
Settlements= Askalingaz(Minden), Ermanarazul?(Irminseoul)CAP

2.Hattoz= Said to have infantry to match the Romans in terms of discipline.
The Batavi tribe (subtribe of Chatti) had amphibious cavalry and the Chatti were learned in trenching. They differed to other Germans because of there manner of fighting and traditions. They didnt involve themselves in petty squabbles but made fullscale campaigns.
Settlements=[Mattium](Kassel)CAP, [Arctaunum](?)

3.Belgae= I think they will be in it. They were said to be the least developed but the bravest of the Celts. The Nervii had a Spartan-like culture so it would be cool to use some of their units.
Settlements=Bagacos CAP, Bratosporios

4.Iberians= A culture unique to Celt-iberian, Celtic, Greek etc. Had there own language. Might be hard representing a united force though, but keep in mind. Best reprentation would probably be a post-Tartessian people (Turdetani) leading them, not a warlike people but probably the most civilized. With the Conii in the alliance
Would be substancialy wealthy due to their silver mines. And for gods sake give the Carthaginians less land in Iberia. A lot of the land you gave them at 272BC they didnt own, they had influence over it, but they didnt own it until Hannibal
Settlements=Carpia(succesor to Tartessos)CAP, Conistorgis

5.Odrysae Thraikians= Were driven into the Bosporus in 273BC by the Celts. Made a comeback and took Thrace bak in 214BC under the king Pleuratus. Would have some unique units. Daco/Getic,Hellenic/Illyrian influenced culture.
NOTE: were different to the Getae brood
Settlements(to start with)= town on the black sea, Olbia? something accurate.
would be expected to to take Tylis and Uskudama(traditional odrysae capital) from the Celts

6.Numidians= The Massyli really. They were allied to Carthage and help them against Rome. Then in the Second Punic War allied to Rome. Massinissa was a Massyli king and owned all Numidia at one time (148BC). Eventually the Romans tried to conquer them under Jugurtha. Though outnumbered the Numidians gave the Romans hell until they captured him.
Settlements=Cirta CAP, Theveste, Siga

7.Illyrians= under the old Pleuratus(of illyria) succeded by Agron 250BC. They ruled over a united Illyria with the capital at Skodra under the master tribe the Ardiaei. They were a thorn in the sides of the Epirotes, Macedonians, Romans etc until they were conquered in 168BC
Settlements= Skodra CAP, Epidamnos

8..Boii/Baio-warioz [warriors]= Celto/Germanic influenced culture centered around the Danube in Boio-haemum[Bohemia]. Some moved from here and settled Cisalpine Gaul and Pannonia. They fought the Sweboz subtribe the Markomannoz and the Dacians under Burebistus. They were known to be particularly savage and always fighting. When Hannibal defeated L.Postumius Albinus hids Boii allies turned his skull into a drinking cup. In the 2nd Century BC they turned back the Teutons and Cimbri.
Settlements=Boiodurum (gate/fort of the Boii, modern Passau) CAP, Eburonum?


9.Galatae= Not one of my favourites, but they did alter history in Anatolia, at one point owning much of central and east Anatolia. They would start under the kings Leotarios and Leonnorios. And would be made up of the Tectosages, the Trocmii, and the Tolistobogii. They were much feared mercenaries in the east often swaying the tides of battles. a unique government too.
Settlements=Ancyra CAP, Pessinus, Tavium

10.Etruscans= Originally an expansionast league under 12 cities. But because of Celtic and Roman wars it declined. In 272BC they are a waning power with only one city and an outpost in North Etruria. They had a rich culture, language and military. The last Etruscan city was taken in 265BC. The culture was Italic/Hellenic. Due to gameplay reasons I see why you may not include it but I still think they would be a good addition to the game.
Settlements= Velzna [Volsinii] CAP, Tular [Tuder]

or

10.Erain= something to represent the unique Gaels and challenge the Casse
I dont know much about them.
Settlements= Emain Macha?

In order to accomodate for these factions changes should should be made to original factions
Sweboz factions should be given another settlement (Leufana, modern day Luneburg)
and the Casse too should receive another settlement. In fact all factions should have at least 2 settlements so they dont get steamrolled by factions close to them.
(and please try and increase the settlement limit I know youre doin your best just keep goin at it.)

Cheers plz feed back
........pant

[Son of Perun]

The problem with Meroe is that their unit selection would be very poor, and they would be quickly dominated by the Ptolemies. Not a very good choice for game balance.

More poor then Saba? I think there are enough east arican units to make a faction: Ethiopian spearmen, Aithiopikon Agema, Elephantes... And I can imagine also Nubian archers, skirmishers and light cavalery. Later after the conquest of Egypt they could get Egyptian and Hellenic units or they could expand to Arabia and get some Arabian regionals.

In almost every game I've played the Ptolemies crushed the Seleucids and started endless wars with Bactria or Carthage. I think the game needs a faction that would weaken Ptolemies.

[Charge]

I think the game needs a faction that would weaken Ptolemies.
... or immediately get crushed by them...:martass:

[Son of Perun]

... or immediately get crushed by them...:martass:

Not if led by wise and brave general (like me :laugh4: ).

[Krusader]

More poor then Saba? I think there are enough east arican units to make a faction: Ethiopian spearmen, Aithiopikon Agema, Elephantes... And I can imagine also Nubian archers, skirmishers and light cavalery. Later after the conquest of Egypt they could get Egyptian and Hellenic units or they could expand to Arabia and get some Arabian regionals.

In almost every game I've played the Ptolemies crushed the Seleucids and started endless wars with Bactria or Carthage. I think the game needs a faction that would weaken Ptolemies.

Nubians didn't use elephants until much later and that was after they saw Ptolemaic use of them. And you're listing Ethiopians who are not Nubians and in fact seems to have disliked Nubians intensely and vice versa. Aithiopikon Agema btw should be axed for the next release as the sources used to create the unit came under fire in a scholarly journal (yes EB can make mistakes) and units like that were apparently only around during the final days of the Ptolemaic kingdom.

You can imagine? You obviously don't care about historical accuracy. This is just I want a 'black faction' over again. You expect us to include Meroe and just invent units?

As I told another guy who desperately wanted a Scandinavian faction in, is that if you collect information, sources, evidences etc. be they textual or, archaeological that shows why Meroe ought to get a spot then we will gladly hear it.

[abou]

More poor then Saba? I think there are enough east arican units to make a faction: Ethiopian spearmen, Aithiopikon Agema, Elephantes... And I can imagine also Nubian archers, skirmishers and light cavalery. Later after the conquest of Egypt they could get Egyptian and Hellenic units or they could expand to Arabia and get some Arabian regionals.

In almost every game I've played the Ptolemies crushed the Seleucids and started endless wars with Bactria or Carthage. I think the game needs a faction that would weaken Ptolemies.
Yeah... that isn't going to cut it. To add to what Krusader said, you're strongly delving into unfair conjecture by just listing off units you would think they should have rather than what they did - including the thought that they could somehow recruit Hellenics.

Like I mentioned - this region is well below the military horizon. There is no way they would be able to do much to worry the Ptolemaioi. I doubt they had the logistical know-how to even create a field army, let alone march it north, and then somehow actually defeat a Ptolemaic army. They wouldn't have the tactics or the fighting styles capable of doing that. They would just simply be skewered by the phalanx.

If the Ptolemaioi need to be weakened, feel free to mod a higher rebel spawn rate for the region or something instead.

[Son of Perun]

Aithiopikon Agema btw should be axed for the next release as the sources used to create the unit came under fire in a scholarly journal (yes EB can make mistakes) and units like that were apparently only around during the final days of the Ptolemaic kingdom.

That's a pity, I really liked those guys.



You can imagine? You obviously don't care about historical accuracy. This is just I want a 'black faction' over again. You expect us to include Meroe and just invent units?

Actually I care about historical accuracy, but I have read in some previous thread that "where there are no historical evidences, there comes logic". How did Nubians beat Romans if they used only spears and arrows?

But I see that without any historical sources it is impossible to persuade you, so I :surrender2: .

[Foot]

Actually I care about historical accuracy, but I have read in some previous thread that "where there are no historical evidences, there comes logic". How did Nubians beat Romans if they used only spears and arrows?


Yeah, logic is important to move from evidence to something that can be used ingame, but this is for individual things, not for the creation of an entire faction's unit roster.

Foot

[Watchman]

How did Nubians beat Romans if they used only spears and arrows?By being bloody hard to reach and not worth the effort ? It's not like Pharaonic Egypt had had a particularly easy time campaigning there either, simply because of terrain and distance, IIRC. And the locals were quite clever enough to not obligingly come out of the hills to get trampled flat.

[Bellum]

I imagine it's awfully hot in that part of Africa.

[azzbaz]

I was wondering what the developers thought of my faction list? Give me some comments or feedback on it.

[Krusader]

In my eyes these are the new factions you should have

1.Heruskoz= Made Rome think twice about conquering Germania. Were very good at ambushing. They were led by formidibale warlords called Drighten.
Were rivals of the Hattoz just like the Aedui and Arverni
Settlements= Askalingaz(Minden), Ermanarazul?(Irminseoul)CAP
Possible candidate.


2.Hattoz= Said to have infantry to match the Romans in terms of discipline.
The Batavi tribe (subtribe of Chatti) had amphibious cavalry and the Chatti were learned in trenching. They differed to other Germans because of there manner of fighting and traditions. They didnt involve themselves in petty squabbles but made fullscale campaigns.
Settlements=[Mattium](Kassel)CAP, [Arctaunum](?)
As I understood the Hattoz or Chatti were first mentioned around 120-150 BC (cant remember specific date) in textual sources and also by what our historians said there havent been any archaeological findings dating the Hattoz to the Hessen area (where Kassel is I recall).


3.Belgae= I think they will be in it. They were said to be the least developed but the bravest of the Celts. The Nervii had a Spartan-like culture so it would be cool to use some of their units.
Settlements=Bagacos CAP, Bratosporios
They were powerful at 272 BC but began to decline shorty thereafter, however they are still being considered.


4.Iberians= A culture unique to Celt-iberian, Celtic, Greek etc. Had there own language. Might be hard representing a united force though, but keep in mind. Best reprentation would probably be a post-Tartessian people (Turdetani) leading them, not a warlike people but probably the most civilized. With the Conii in the alliance
Would be substancialy wealthy due to their silver mines. And for gods sake give the Carthaginians less land in Iberia. A lot of the land you gave them at 272BC they didnt own, they had influence over it, but they didnt own it until Hannibal
Settlements=Carpia(succesor to Tartessos)CAP, Conistorgis
Actually there are many other Iberian tribes that are also possible, although if an Iberian tribe is included it will most probably be a Celtiberian one.


5.Odrysae Thraikians= Were driven into the Bosporus in 273BC by the Celts. Made a comeback and took Thrace bak in 214BC under the king Pleuratus. Would have some unique units. Daco/Getic,Hellenic/Illyrian influenced culture.
NOTE: were different to the Getae brood
Settlements(to start with)= town on the black sea, Olbia? something accurate.
would be expected to to take Tylis and Uskudama(traditional odrysae capital) from the Celts
The Thracians will probably not be included due to many factions surrounding them. Also, by my recollection there weren't large enough kingdoms post-272 that were capable of launching outright invasions of other non-Thracian kingdoms. But main reason is it would be very hard, plus we cant give them Odrysai region due to Tylis being a Celtic city at game start.


6.Numidians= The Massyli really. They were allied to Carthage and help them against Rome. Then in the Second Punic War allied to Rome. Massinissa was a Massyli king and owned all Numidia at one time (148BC). Eventually the Romans tried to conquer them under Jugurtha. Though outnumbered the Numidians gave the Romans hell until they captured him.
Settlements=Cirta CAP, Theveste, Siga
Will probably make it in...but we are debating if Massylia or Masaesylia is the good Numidian choice.


7.Illyrians= under the old Pleuratus(of illyria) succeded by Agron 250BC. They ruled over a united Illyria with the capital at Skodra under the master tribe the Ardiaei. They were a thorn in the sides of the Epirotes, Macedonians, Romans etc until they were conquered in 168BC
Settlements= Skodra CAP, Epidamnos
Possible candidate. Not discussed much but they were a thorn in their neighbours' side, more so than the Thracians it seems.


8..Boii/Baio-warioz [warriors]= Celto/Germanic influenced culture centered around the Danube in Boio-haemum[Bohemia]. Some moved from here and settled Cisalpine Gaul and Pannonia. They fought the Sweboz subtribe the Markomannoz and the Dacians under Burebistus. They were known to be particularly savage and always fighting. When Hannibal defeated L.Postumius Albinus hids Boii allies turned his skull into a drinking cup. In the 2nd Century BC they turned back the Teutons and Cimbri.
Settlements=Boiodurum (gate/fort of the Boii, modern Passau) CAP, Eburonum?

Also a hotly debated candidate. Would be the Central European Boii, not those in northern Italy.


9.Galatae= Not one of my favourites, but they did alter history in Anatolia, at one point owning much of central and east Anatolia. They would start under the kings Leotarios and Leonnorios. And would be made up of the Tectosages, the Trocmii, and the Tolistobogii. They were much feared mercenaries in the east often swaying the tides of battles. a unique government too.
Settlements=Ancyra CAP, Pessinus, Tavium
Asia Minor is packed, but Galatians are being discussed. At this point of time though they'd be in a faction together with Bithynia.


10.Etruscans= Originally an expansionast league under 12 cities. But because of Celtic and Roman wars it declined. In 272BC they are a waning power with only one city and an outpost in North Etruria. They had a rich culture, language and military. The last Etruscan city was taken in 265BC. The culture was Italic/Hellenic. Due to gameplay reasons I see why you may not include it but I still think they would be a good addition to the game.
Settlements= Velzna [Volsinii] CAP, Tular [Tuder]
Really don't think the Etruscans is a viable faction at this time due to them being conquered only 7 years later.


or

10.Erain= something to represent the unique Gaels and challenge the Casse
I dont know much about them.
Settlements= Emain Macha?
These guys are a possible candidate too.


Some you forgot though:

Pergamon
Bithynia
Syracuse
Bastarnae
Bosphoran Greeks
Massagetae
Brigantes/Brigantines
Aquitanii
Mauretanians
Nabataea
Caucasian Iberia
Lugians

----------------

We'd want to tell you our faction choices...but alas we need preview material. :wink:
When there are no previews or such in a mod forum people believe it's dead.

[Son of Perun]

Just guessing which new factions will be in EB2:
1.Bosphoran Kingdom
2.Belgii
3.Heruskoz
4.Boii
5.Syracuse
6.Caucasian Iberia
7.Massylia or Masaesylia
8.Errain
9.Pergamon
10.Galatians

Tell me if I was close ~:) .

[azzbaz]

Thanks Krusader for giving me some feedback. I have some questions about the responses you gave. You said that you may include a Celt-Iberian faction in EB 2? From the literature i've read the Lusotannon were either a Celt-iberian tribe or heavily influenced by the Celt-Iberians. It may not be wise to include a Celt-Iberian tribe when you can include a culture and people completely different like the native Iberians? Your probably thinking of the Celtiberians centered at Numantia or Okilis with the master tribe the Arevaci arent you. Give us some feedback

[azzbaz]

The Reasons I Dont want and/or think these factions should be in it are.

Pergamon: This one was actually borderline in my mind. It was a rump state left after Lysimachus' Hellenistic Thracian kingdom broke up, I recall. They would be like most of the other successor kingdoms though I feel. Also they would start the game with just one settlement, It might just look too good to the Arche Seleukids, Greeks, Makedonians, Ptolemaioi and Pontos. Too much against it in my eyes. Unless you dont have the Galatae, Leave it on the cutting floor.

Bithynia: I'd have my Thracian kingdom I guess, but probably has the same sorta problems as Pergamon

Syracuse: Look forget about it. It's been said before, but the idea of a Syracuse faction annoys me so much. The Carthaginians and the Romans would just obliterate them. Then you've got expansion problems etc. I'd also imagine it would be difficult making a unique unit rooster for a faction that probably fought identically to the Greeks.

Bastarnae: This would be really tricky since you probably dont have much in regards to information on these people and what you do have is very unreliable since a lot of it is still questionable or obscure. It'd be hard finding out where they lived at 272BC let alone making a faction out of them

Bosphoran Greeks: This one is also borderline on my mind. I actually really wouldn't mind them in the game. They would be a good mix of Hellenic/Scythian/Eastern culture I'd guess. There's also plenty of information on them too. Puttem in instead of the Etruscans:beam:

Massagetae: Correct me if I'm wrong but the Massagetae were the same as the Alans who were the same as the Aorsi who were part of the loose Sauromatae confederation. Probably not a good idea including just one of the Sauromatae tribes when you could include any of them; Roxolani, Iazyges etc

Brigantes/Brigantines: Would be good, but they would either be destroyed or destroy the Casse early in the game.

Aquitanii: No, I dont think so. They were very similar to the Aedui and Arverni. I think a third player in Gaul wouldn't be wise. I can just imagine playing as the Aedui and fighting clone wars with the Arverni, Aquitanii and Casse. Not fun and not worth it.

Mauretanians: If you're thinking of having a Numidian faction, stick a knife in it. They didn't much of an impact on history in africa or history as whole.

Nabataea: Might be good owning Petra and Aelana but I cant help but feel they would quickly be dispatched by the Ptolemaoi and Seleukids

Caucasian Iberia: little room for expansion with more major kingdoms like Armenia and Pontos nearby. and little impact on history.

Lugians: A Celto-Germanic people I think. The Boii would be a better choice though. More information on Boii than the mysterious 'forest peoples' the Lugii

Pick the Hattoz instead:2thumbsup:

[Elminster12]

I very much doubt they have very many "shoo-in" candidates with the number of factions they have already. Honestly, some of the factions already in are probably of debatable importance and impact. We can't expect the EB team to conjure up something as important as Roma or Kart-Hadast at this point...well, unless they finally include Bartix, that is. Fricking travesty that they aren't in EB1:furious3:

I myself am not too concerned with difficulty as much as I am with flavor. I like experiencing the new and exciting. I very much do play EB in part to LEARN...
So...

Bithynia
Bastarnae
Bosphoran Greeks
Brigantes/Brigantines
Nabataea
Lugians
Heruskoz
Belgae
Celtibrians
Numidians
Boii
Galatae
These are most interesting to me. Of course, I'm not worried because I trust that everything will be as full of historical flavor as the originals.

[Zaknafien]

Actually most of the new factions have already been decided on ;)

[Anthony]

Aquitanii: No, I dont think so. They were very similar to the Aedui and Arverni. I think a third player in Gaul wouldn't be wise. I can just imagine playing as the Aedui and fighting clone wars with the Arverni, Aquitanii and Casse. Not fun and not worth it.

Not much to say, but this is inaccurate. The Aquitanians have material evidence of being more akin to Celtiberians and northern Iberians in some regions, with Gauls in the north; they spoke a different language than the Gauls and left a good bit of different material culture. They'd not be super unique, but they'd hardly be the same as the Aedui and Arverni.

[azzbaz]

Well there's something I didn't know. Thank you for picking me up on that. I thought that because they lived in Gaul they would've shared many of the same attributes the Arverni and Aedui did. I knew they would've been Iberian influenced, but do you really think that they are really that unique and/or important to be considered as a faction?

[Strategos Alexandros]

I would like the following factions in Eb if possible or plausible:
Galatia
Syracuse
Massyli
Belgae
Erain/Brigantes
Bosphorans
Celtiberians

[Son of Perun]

Actually most of the new factions have already been decided on ;)

How many?

[Foot]

How many?

8 of 10

Foot

[the Abyssinian]

I would love to see the "kingdom of Axum" in the upcoming mod. it would be just perfect.

[Krusader]

I would love to see the "kingdom of Axum" in the upcoming mod. it would be just perfect.

Not really. Axum didn't exist until many centuries later.

[Son of Perun]

Would it be possible to make a poll with the candidates for the remaining 2 new factions?

[Bootsiuv]

The Reasons I Dont want and/or think these factions should be in it are.

Pergamon: This one was actually borderline in my mind. It was a rump state left after Lysimachus' Hellenistic Thracian kingdom broke up, I recall. They would be like most of the other successor kingdoms though I feel. Also they would start the game with just one settlement, It might just look too good to the Arche Seleukids, Greeks, Makedonians, Ptolemaioi and Pontos. Too much against it in my eyes. Unless you dont have the Galatae, Leave it on the cutting floor.

It was a little more than a "rump state" under the Attalids, friend, eventually gaining control of a large portion of western asia minor.



Syracuse: Look forget about it. It's been said before, but the idea of a Syracuse faction annoys me so much. The Carthaginians and the Romans would just obliterate them. Then you've got expansion problems etc. I'd also imagine it would be difficult making a unique unit rooster for a faction that probably fought identically to the Greeks.

I doubt the Syracuseans would be push-overs as you suggest. I do agree that it would be hard to make a unique unit line up for them though.

[Krusader]

Would it be possible to make a poll with the candidates for the remaining 2 new factions?

Nope

[HistoryProf]

I would like the following factions in Eb if possible or plausible:
Galatia
Syracuse
Massyli
Belgae
Erain/Brigantes
Bosphorans
Celtiberians

Bosphorans, Numidian and Boii in Central Europe: the map actually needs the Bosphorans and Boii for gameplay reasons.

And someone said Numidia didn't have an effect on history? I'll hold off my scathing comments. I promised I'd be nice.

And how come now one ever mentions my faction: Euzkadi!

Talk about impact on history: We're still around!

[Geoffrey S]

And someone said Numidia didn't have an effect on history? I'll hold off my scathing comments. I promised I'd be nice.
Numidia? As a unified faction it should not be included, but I'd definitely love to see a particular tribe with a similar mechanism to what was previewed for Hayasdan recently (though the same hope goes for a number of more disjointed factions).

And how come now one ever mentions my faction: Euzkadi!

Talk about impact on history: We're still around!
I've seen mention of the Aquitani, though that's as close as I'd assume it'd get to including some kind of Basque faction.

[Charge]

Bosphorans, Numidian and Boii in Central Europe: the map actually needs the Bosphorans and Boii for gameplay reasons.
I think map needs Scythia instead of Bosphorans.

[Son of Perun]

I think map needs Scythia instead of Bosphorans.
Why? It wouldn't be so big difference...

[Sarcasm]

And how come now one ever mentions my faction: Euzkadi!

Talk about impact on history: We're still around!

Ugh.

[HistoryProf]

Precisas de ir á casa de banho?

[Sarcasm]

Só se for para te cagar em cima.

[Son of Perun]

Are there any candidates for new factions in eastern Europe?

[Anthony]

The Boii. Developed cities and fortresses, advanced concept of kingship, advanced developments for war, prolific traders, ran large mints. The only one I can think of in eastern Europe as being definitely possible, but the Lugians might be possible. But, there's talk about how well they'd work and all.

[russia almighty]

I hope you guys added another steppe faction . I would love some crazy horse archer vs . horse archer battles .

[HistoryProf]

So, why not a Basque faction? They had been there for thousands of years and are still there thousands of years after.

They destroyed Charlemagne's rear guard, the Suebi literally ran through to Galicia, so did the Vandals. The Romans never left the fort in Pamplona. Basques even joined the legions and stood on Hadrians wall. The Moors were sleeping in Portuguese and Spanish homes, but couldn't stay in Euskal Herria overnight. There's a reason the Gallic tribes went to the Po and not the Ebro.

They would be among the strongest ambushers in the game. Strong javelins, iron axes, oak shields and big men (well, compared to Lusotannians and Carthaginians, anyway...)

You guys always talk about wishing there was more going on in Iberia...

[Zarax]

Well, the balares could be a similar option, romans feared them in the forests so much that they burned down half central sardinia rather than having to assault nuraghe after nuraghe...
Between the punic wars they were the de facto owners of Sardinia, carthaginians being kicked out by mercenaries and balares kicking the mercenaries out until the romans came.

[Sarcasm]

So, why not a Basque faction? They had been there for thousands of years and are still there thousands of years after.

They destroyed Charlemagne's rear guard, the Suebi literally ran through to Galicia, so did the Vandals. The Romans never left the fort in Pamplona. Basques even joined the legions and stood on Hadrians wall. The Moors were sleeping in Portuguese and Spanish homes, but couldn't stay in Euskal Herria overnight. There's a reason the Gallic tribes went to the Po and not the Ebro.

They would be among the strongest ambushers in the game. Strong javelins, iron axes, oak shields and big men (well, compared to Lusotannians and Carthaginians, anyway...)

You guys always talk about wishing there was more going on in Iberia...

I have great admiration for the people that inhabited the area, and that's the sole reason I'm responding to this, and stepping into a nationalistic swamp. While we like to think that all these people were the same as the modern Basques there is no direct evidence that it is so. Even if the toponomy strongly suggests it.

There was no such thing as "Basques" in our time period. What you did have was a number of people that spoke a similar language (that was no where near unified in medieval times, or until modern times, so much less then) and shared a loose common ancestry. Now these people were spread throughout this side of the Pyrenees - the Tarbelli, the Caristii, or the Vardulli - and the other - the Ausci, the Volcates or the Vasates. The most important of all these people were the Vascones of course, that migrate south the Ebro Valley during a few centuries, but occupy a relatively small area of really useful land (the Romans would establish in this area, and then keep some ports and mining operations north).

The Celts not only crossed the Ebro, they settled there or influenced a lot of tribes in that area. You have the Celtiberians right there, and the Cantabri just to their left, not to mention the Ilergetes that were if not Celtiberian at the very least Celticized Iberians. They might not have been Celts per se, but don't underestimate Celtic influence there. The Aquitani had quite a few of these tribes under their thumb.

Besides the usual raiding done by this type of tribes, they made nothing worth of deserving a faction slot during our period, They even seem to have negotiated their way into the Roman Empire by providing auxiliaries to it. Only much later are they referred to collectively as Vascones.

[Sarcasm]

Big men? :dizzy2:

[HistoryProf]

:book: Yes. So you're saying your minds made up then?

[Arrius_Aurelius_Magnus]

Additionally I would prefere following factions (All German Names):

1. Central Europe: 1 Tribe in the East of Germany
Possible: Rugier; Langobarden; Burgunder; Reudinger; Kimbern;
Cherusker; Chauken; Gauten (Goten), Chatten, Quaden
1 Tribe in the Region of the Alps
Possible: Helviter, Taurisker, Hermunduren, Skordisker,
Bojer, Volscer, Dardaner
2. Eastern Europe: 1 Tribe in the Region of the Vistula River
Possible: Any Slavic Tribe, Ästier (early Baltics), Bastarner
3. Balcan Peninsula: 1 Tribe/State at the Adrian coast
Possible: The Illyrians (Works quite well on RTR)
1 Tribe/State in Thracia
Possible: Thraker (Celtic Empire of Tylis)
4. Asia Minor : 1 Tribe in the West of Asia Minor
Possible: The State of Rhodos, Bythinia, Cappadocia
And the southern coast belonging to the Ptolemy Empiire
5. Greece : Dividing the Koinon Hellenon into the Factions of Aetolia,
Achäa and Rhodos.
6. Africa : 3 States - The Kingdoms of Numidia and Mauretania and
Meroe
7. East : 2 States - The Mauryan Empire in India
The Sarmatians (Settlements int the East)
8. Spain : 1 Tribe - Any Iberian Tribe

Most likely not each of these has got to be a playable faction.
Additionally (If I got it right the unplayable factions are not as limited) the playable factions could include smaller states like:
Massilia and Syracuse
Such states give a much more realistic atmosphere.
Eventually the Yüeh Jin could be triggered as a horde, which appears at a historical accurate time.

A great thing would be having the Optimates or the Populares as a Roman Rebel faction (depending on which kind of policy you choose) It would make sense that only the rebelling generals and their troops (like pompey and caesar and their legions).

And please: Rework, the Roman Names in the family tree!
For in your system e.g. :
Gnaes Pompeius Magnus son becomes Quintus Tullius Magnus - the cognome is the name that is heired!
In reality it would have been:
Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus son becomes Quintus Pompeius + a random name (the cognomen!)

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

And please: Rework, the Roman Names in the family tree!
For in your system e.g. :
Gnaes Pompeius Magnus son becomes Quintus Tullius Magnus - the cognome is the name that is heired!
In reality it would have been:
Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus son becomes Quintus Pompeius + a random name (the cognomen!)
This has already been done. The next release will have massively complete Roman names that are accurate and work correctly. Coming soon...

[Arrius_Aurelius_Magnus]

@MarcusAureliusAntonius

What about the Female names?
Like Marcus Tullios daughter would be called Tullia and so on?

What about my other "Beggings" ànd "Wishes"???

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Names given by the engine, such as first names and female names are completely random. In the new naming system, names are given by 'ethnicity' traits, so females will only have random first names.

One of the criteria of a faction in EB/EB2 is that it is playable. For this reason, minor factions and rebel factions are not being considered. Also things that have been decided that won't go in: 2- factions on the edge of the map that would have territory outside of the map or would want to expand outside of the map, such as Eithiopia, India, or Scandinavia; 3- dividing up the Koinon Hellenon; 4- factions outside of the time frame, such as Yuezhi or a Germanic tribe that comes to great power 100-200 years after the start date.

I'm not sure about your list, most of those seem insignifigant, non-descript, or fit into one of the above. And for a few, I'm not entirely sure of the Latin name...

[HistoryProf]

You guys decide on which Numidian faction yet?

[Arrius_Aurelius_Magnus]

Sounds quite reasonable. Realistic Roman Names Would be a great thing.
But why don't you us the unplayable factions? This would add a very realistic feature - Just like the Hordes that invaded Europe over and over again.

So what do you think about the inner-roman options? Rebel-Armies as Populares or Optimates (choosing which side you're on).
What about the Senat? (Not as a faction, but as a brief overview over the Romans inside?)

[Jarlabanke]

Does "Scandinavia" include modern day Denmark or just the scandinavian peninsula?

[Foot]

Sounds quite reasonable. Realistic Roman Names Would be a great thing.
But why don't you us the unplayable factions? This would add a very realistic feature - Just like the Hordes that invaded Europe over and over again.

So what do you think about the inner-roman options? Rebel-Armies as Populares or Optimates (choosing which side you're on).
What about the Senat? (Not as a faction, but as a brief overview over the Romans inside?)

And why wouldn't other factions have such a similar thing? The Aedui would, as would Carthage. We could definately use something like that for Arche Seleukeia and Ptolemaioi. In the end we would just have every faction with a shadow faction. And if we chose just one it would be an act of favouritism.

We won't have unplayable factions. In other words.

Foot

[Geoffrey S]

Absolutely the only unplayable faction I'd like to see and think could be justified due to importance and emergence due to factors largely outside the map would be the Yuezhi. But I agree with the lack of other emerging factions inside the EB borders.

[HistoryProf]

Hey Bitey Terrier: you guys choose between Masinissa's people or those of Syphax?
The Western Kingdom seems like it'd give more space on the campaign map, imo, though the Eastern was probably (just a hunch) more 'advanced', as they say.

[Geoffrey S]

Starting your post calling someone 'Bitey Terrier' probably won't help you get an answer, really.

[bovi]

It's Foot's self-chosen title. I think it will be okay :beam:.

[Geoffrey S]

Right. My mistake then.

[HistoryProf]

Just like I call myself a dotard. Or is that my wife? I confuse us occasionally.

I would just like to see one of them, I really don't have a preference. That side of the map is a bit barren.

[King Orko]

the faction list I prefer:
Romans
Illyrians
Carthage
Pontus
Parthia
Numidia
Gauls(not one faction)
Britons(not one faction)
germanic tribes(not 1 faction)
Macedonia
Greece(or Koinon Helenikon)
Dacia
Saba
Ptolmey
Selecuid empire
hispanians(not 1 faction)
Meccabians(emergant)

[Ludens]

Absolutely the only unplayable faction I'd like to see and think could be justified due to importance and emergence due to factors largely outside the map would be the Yuezhi. But I agree with the lack of other emerging factions inside the EB borders.
I agree. I also would like to see the Yuezhi, but that's the only emerging faction I am interested in.

[Meneldil]

Well, from my little knowledge about ancient era, here are a few factions that I'd like to see in EB2 :

- Pergamon
- Bosphorus kingdom
- Some kind of half-civilized faction in Anatolia, either the Galatians or the Bithynians
- Numidians
- Another faction in the british isles
- An indian satrapy, as far as it's possible
- Another germanic faction in eastern europe. The area is so damn empty atm, I've never ever been there except in a Sweboz campaign.
- Probably Syrakousai (sp?) though it would be a nite-impossible faction
- Another gallic-ish faction in western europe, either Celtiberian or Belgae, or both :D

[azzbaz]

Can you guys tell me whether you've considered the Cherusci, because i'd really like to see them in the game.

.. and think they have some valid reasons for being in it

or if not the Cherusci than the Chatti

[Copperknickers]

Definetly another British tribe, the casse have far too much of a free reign over they're surrounding lands than anyone else which is simply not historical