MP Requests

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Hey,

Anyone here want any MP requests written up in the NExt couple issues of the GAHzette here at .Org? you want it writtien about, ask me!:yes:

[Swoosh So]

Sure heres a copy paste from one of my posts:

Lets start at the beginning when you logon

Foyer:

Visually the totalwar foyer should be visually appealing, this was true of shogun and mtw1 but was lost in rome and mtw2. My advice is to stay away from black and darker colours and go for a lighter colour set like the previous titles that had the most appealing and visually pleasing foyers.

The option to add chat rooms (with passwords if needed) was a great feature of the totalwar foyer and enjoyed by much of the community especially on tournament days. It is sorely missed.

The chat area should be larger without the need to click and block views of the games setup.

Interaction with players should be easy like click a name and then that becomes a whisper to that player, hold control and click multiple players for a multi whisper.

Crazy ideas for foyer:

With clans registered on a ladder or similar system their could be a clan chat window or tab, this would be a great tool for clans assisting clan communication (examples of this sort of system can be seen in the world of warcraft guild tab).

Friends lists easy - example added friend mike simpson result= "mike simpson has come online" showing in the chat window, this could also auto add clan members if the clans were added to a ladder or registered somehow.


Setting up games:

At the moment setting up games is cumbersome ill give examples..

At the moment the host can set the number of players but not the number of teams this should be added to the front setup screen (the same page as the number of players option) along with the option to setup team florins on the first setup screen.

After playing the totalwar series online for 6 years and having played thosands of games the one cry rings out everytime someone enters your game you dont know or you enter someones game who doesent know you, NO ARTY! Basically 99% of the totalwar community dont want artillery in their online games, a tick box to remove artillery from the army selection by the host would be a great addition and save the players having to type this every game. the same goes for elephants but we cant have too many options so id skip that 1 but artillery option would be very nice.


Ladder System:

Again going back to shogun which included a ladder system with the option of compeditive and friendly play options, a similar system would be great but would also allow for the registration of clans and clan chat or even clan window/tab.

Crazy ideas for Ladder System: 5 game winning streak your general unit gains a virtue perhaps selectable that he will have in all compeditive games till your general is captured or killed, then you would have to get say a 5 game win streak to get a virtue back, of course this 5 game win streak would only inculde matches where you gained honor or valour by fighting an opponent in a similar or higher position on the ladder.


Maps:

The map selection for multiplayer at the moment is very dissapointing usually resulting in 80% of games being played on a flat grass map, perhaps maps designed for 1v1 2v2 3v3 4v4 play could be designed if not by ca then by a ca map making competition for the community map makers to have your map if it wins or comes runner up in the 1v1 or 2v2 etc category being added to the next patch. We have tried to create map packs in the past and they just dont work without it being in some official release.

Game mechanics:

At the moment the game has some control issues caused by the move to 3d (rometotalwar onwards) for example if i move a unit to the flank of my enemy and 1 or 2 of the men in my unit clip an enemy unit the whole unit will stop its movement and become unresponsive, more control is needed if its just 1 or 2 men causing this problem. like the unit maintaining speed and formation and the 1 or 2 men stuck in the enemy unit TRYING to run through, but the bulk of the unit is uneffected.

Currently when you move archers or other missle units when they reach their destination they are still "marching" for several seconds after they all reach their destination, faster unit reformation is needed especially with missle units is needed when they reach their destination.

Also when charging infantry sometimes only the front ranks will charge into combat leaving the rest of the unit far behind where they will stand fragmenting battle lines and becoming unresponsive, perhaps making the unit reassemble formation at the contact point with the enemy unit would work.

When a missle unit is being fired upon and taking losses they are constantly repositioning (especially gunpowder units) this would be much better if the units just stood still and continued what they were doing.

Balance:

I wont go into this much as their are far too many different units to include, personally i think the series is missing the ANTI CAVALRY- CAVALRY UNIT like the yari cavalry which was faster than other cavalry and could beat all cavalry but not infantry (this was a great balancing unit) i understand such a unit may not be possible now with so many factions available but i can dream :)

Generals abilities:

Currently we have rally which is nice but i would personally like to see another option added perhaps a faction ability, this ability would have area effect near the general unit such as HOLD THE LINE! slight increase in morale for surrounding units for a short duration of time with a 3 minute cooldown.

So example Roman Generals: Hold the line! slight increase in morale for a short duration (area effect) 3 minute cooldown.
Gaul Generals: Attack! slight increase in attack stat for a short duration (area effect) 3 minute cooldown.

Abilities like warcry were introduced in rome but i feel the general unit gives it more focus and adds to the tactical options in the game and with a 3 minute cooldown it must be well timed for good effect and adds more flavour to each seperate faction.

Final thoughts:

The foyer issue is of great importance and almost everyone ive spoken with in the community (and i can chat alot :P ) wants a foyer of similar quality to the early totalwar games and has been really unhappy with the foyers from the release of rome onward, this is an important issue because the foyer is the place the community communicates and is of the utmost importance.

So what i hope for

Improved foyer and game setup options.

multiplayer maps.

Ladder system with clan options.

Improved unit control (see game mechanics)

General unit unique abilities as per faction or winning streaks on a compeditive ladder.

They are not radical steps but ones im sure the totalwar community would greatly appreciate, never can so many units be balanced and thats ok players will always have their preffered armies/setups but these small improvements will go a long way to bringing the totalwar series up to scratch in multiplayer im sure to the joy of many of the fans.

Aboslute priority on the better designed foyer part and chat rooms or tournament rooms.

Ty muchly

swoosh

[Mars]

Well, i wont make a long post. There are always more than one POV on something. I like to point out 2 here...

1. Attact player. The time u need to get a game is too long. It is simply impossible to get online and just play 2 or 3 games since u got 1 hour before u have to leave ur home.

2. Manual setup for games is stupid!




Its once more based on the limited playerbase, but as long there is nothing apart from knowing certain people, what leads to an opponent u accept or not....well, its pretty stupid.

New people are not getting into the clique and play crap games vs other new player who dont know whats goin on. Many people leave dissapointed.


There should be an intern ladder or an open ladder, to give at least some smart overview about someone is good, bad or new. There should be hotseat games, look at Wc3 thats how its done.

The time u waste to get a single game is insane, sometimes u have to wait like 1 hour to get some opponents.


With a ladder, people would play new player for the ladder, this would increase the games player and new people would learn by losing. But if its only fun, the whole thing goes into friends play with friends and no new guy ever will enter the inner circler or he need ages....

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Well, i wont make a long post. There are always more than one POV on something. I like to point out 2 here...

1. Attact player. The time u need to get a game is too long. It is simply impossible to get online and just play 2 or 3 games since u got 1 hour before u have to leave ur home.

2. Manual setup for games is stupid!




Its once more based on the limited playerbase, but as long there is nothing apart from knowing certain people, what leads to an opponent u accept or not....well, its pretty stupid.

New people are not getting into the clique and play crap games vs other new player who dont know whats goin on. Many people leave dissapointed.


There should be an intern ladder or an open ladder, to give at least some smart overview about someone is good, bad or new. There should be hotseat games, look at Wc3 thats how its done.

The time u waste to get a single game is insane, sometimes u have to wait like 1 hour to get some opponents.


With a ladder, people would play new player for the ladder, this would increase the games player and new people would learn by losing. But if its only fun, the whole thing goes into friends play with friends and no new guy ever will enter the inner circler or he need ages....


Koc, you made many good points. Plus That, when all the better players are in a game, all the new people can't really play the Vets, etheir because they in a game or they don't wanna play them (not all of them)

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

With a ladder, people would play new player for the ladder, this would increase the games player and new people would learn by losing. But if its only fun, the whole thing goes into friends play with friends and no new guy ever will enter the inner circler or he need ages....

But the ladder should take care for 3 things:

1. If a high ranked player beat a new player on a low rank, it should give only less or no points. If a player beats a higher ranked player, it should give more points as normal.

2. If 2 gamer play against each other more than once, only 2 or 3 games a month should count. Otherwise there would be a chance to cheat.

3. Defender is in advantage. A def victory should give less points than an att victory.

There could be different ladders and awards: Fastest games, most kills, most losses ;) and so on.

[Swoosh So]

But the ladder should take care for 3 things:

1. If a high ranked player beat a new player on a low rank, it should give only less or no points. If a player beats a higher ranked player, it should give more points as normal.

2. If 2 gamer play against each other more than once, only 2 or 3 games a month should count. Otherwise there would be a chance to cheat.

3. Defender is in advantage. A def victory should give less points than an att victory.

There could be different ladders and awards: Fastest games, most kills, most losses ;) and so on.


Point 1 was already intergrated in the shogun player ladder, point 2 well fair enough although id say 2-3 games a week, and point 3 well if the games and maps could be made balanced their wouldent really be a need for that or perhaps ladder games could be arranged as 2 games 1 in defence 1 in attack between players.

The last point you make about fastest games etc im not really keen on, but thats my personal opinion a basic game ladder would do me just nicely.

[Jack Lusted]

Why not add your suggestions to the Multiplayer feedback thread over at the official forums?

http://shoguntotalwar.yuku.com/topic/16495/t/Multiplayer-Feedback.html

[|Heerbann|_Di3Hard]

In my opinion, it would be a better solution, if you would use different threads with sub thread?! E.g.

Battlefield
- Sticky: current results from discussion (One person collect all ideas in one sticky thread)
- Balance
- Interface

Lobby
- Sticky: current results from discussion
- Interface
- Functions

Ladder
- Sticky: current results from discussion
- Functions
- Awards/Bonus

Clan Functions
...

In my opinion better than a 500 pages thread.

[Jack Lusted]

The thread is only 7 or 8 pages long, if you have feedback and suggestions for multiplayer it would be best to post them there as that is the place we will most likely look for multiplayer feedback.

[Swoosh So]

The thread is only 7 or 8 pages long, if you have feedback and suggestions for multiplayer it would be best to post them there as that is the place we will most likely look for multiplayer feedback.

Ill stick to this forum thanks :) just cant abide that forum CA use.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Ill stick to this forum thanks :) just cant abide that forum CA use.

can't argee more with you :yes:

[Mars]

Hey Lusted ;)

I dont know u, so its cool u come along at least.



Well, what we are doin here is more trolling, at least for me, as CA didnt listen most of times the last 7 years. And if CA did listen, than they hardly did use he input.


Every game get the community it deserve!
Look at RTW and now at MTW2, the standart droped massivly. The skill and also the behaviour!

The game got dumped down and good things which was done once completly dissapeared.


Im not here to speak about the mecanics or the engine, Puzz made tons of posts, so did other, its all said and nothing more to add.
I mostly speak about generall ideas how the PR of the MP part of TW games should be done and how to attract more player.

Let me add some of the basics.

1. the ladder, the ladder we had in STW/MI was good, there were problems ofc. There was a way to cheat the ladder by playing with 2 gameversions and lose to urself. The points u had was a slightshow of the last 30 games played and the Points those player had u won vs.

Simple and easy.

This cheat was easy to check and CA/EA could had banned the cheater easy, but didnt!!!

2. this directly leads to the next problem. Lack of attention. CA does almost nothing for MP. U ever saw someone online and care for behavior?
call it a mod. Even older player would surely do this job meanwhile they play and are online.

Its pretty easy to get a handfull of trusworthy people who could act as mod while they are online.

3. Tourneys, prices, clanfriendly platforms. The best i ever saw was, that some clans got linked to the CA side. Its not 2000, we have 2007.

Tourneys was organised by players and if i remember at the tourneys i did organise, it was always some hardcore work, to beg CA for at least 3 game copies at least!

Check here, the old HP of the biggest tourney is still up! www.kocmoc.de

We had around 240 player for this tourney, we did crash the server since so many came to play it.

Use this example and think about how to get more people online and enjoy ur game! The forum and also the platform was terrible. We made tons of subforums and we used aroudn 10 player who did help to get this organised.


4. Longtime campaigns. There should be single campaigns every clan can play vs the computer. This is so simple.... just read and imagin.

10 clans take part. There is a map of whatever area u want. now this campaign is visible at CA site and u can see which clan do what step. The clans dont play vs each other, they play vs the computer!

Winning is the one who finish the map first.


Its simple. Its a race and a step is 1 day. The point is, u could introduce a selfgoin system which doesnt need a lot work from player.

5. In many treads we saw suggestion like Fog of war and a larger range of units. Like scouts.
there is so much, im not goin to repeat myself.


i have to stop now...


gonna continue now.

6. Server. Gamespy is good and working for many other games.
I can remember several problems for TW games. I spoke with guys from GS and they did blame CA for the problems. Im sure CA blame GS as well.... just weird why so many other games was/are working jsut great ;)

Anyway, what i always did worry about is the lack of looking ahead. With an own Server u could gain tons of information from the only playing people.

Just think about the extra infos u get from the:

Most used units
less used units
Die time of units types
Fatique intput
What units are used/charged first
Sort it by player, its surely interesting what the best player use

U could adjust price of units by this system, so most used units get slightly more expensiv.

For a good testing-team this would be very interesting and valuable info, it would save tons of time, since the player playtested it already. At least till a certain degree.

With an own server u could advertice and hold tourneys/campaigns pretty easy.

U could introduce a direct mapdownload system, someone hasnt the map, u jsut load it before game starts.

7. Comp/ladder games. A set amount of cash u can spent, no upgrades. No flat maps.
Also u cant play the same map more than once every 10 games or 5. This would bring a lot more varity. More challanges. Or even better, get a average amount of maps and they get automatically choosed by the server.

Flat maps destroyed a shitload of tactical deepness! This is also a very important fact which should be solved. --> having a weak flank sitting on a hill is just one option.

Extra Slots for ranks.

8. Ego part of gaming. Like a ladder, people always want to compare each other. Its human nature to be better in a way or an other. This oppurtunity is completly left out in this online game.

There has to be ranks and the ranks should have some effects.


- easy effect are symbols or pics next to ur name, to show ur rank, played battles. Im sure u get the big picture! The ego flexing is important, give it to the mass!

- medicore. Open slots for extra units with some slighty better stats. Now people come along and moan about balance and that it would be unfair. But there could be some slight advances.

- harder. Own army symbols. Who is ladder nr1 has to be shown on the field. Who won a tourney or more, has to be shown on the field. I want to customize my army and make it full black.


8. Fatique slots. This idea is based on the generall problem this game has. No tactical battlepoints.
In any battle there where points which was important to get/attack/hold.

It would be smart to introduce points on the map, maybe on a hill where units can regain fatique.
There are more options ofc, its complex and a bit risky since u can massivly unbalance it, but it would be worth a though.

[Kronos]

Every game get the community it deserve!
Look at RTW and now at MTW2, the standart droped massivly. The skill and also the behaviour!


And what exactly do you mean by this?

[Grendy]

I'd agree with Kronos, comments such as that one only lead to more negativity in the TW online community.

If you believe that skill has dropped in M2TW, then have a few games against Barrett, or some of the Polish clans.
As to behaviour, its simply different.Thankfully ,much of the roleplaying has been dropped from how people talk to each other.There is no less friendliness.
Ask anyone that came from the RTW/BI group,and you'll find that they have tight bonds of kinship,much like the MTW players would have with each other.

Things are simply different now,(not worse),and come the next TW game, the community will evolve again.
Hopefully,a large percentage of the current group of players will make the move to the next game in the series,but you simply don't know.
Some won't like the new release,and stick to the older games.Some won't be able to adapt to the differences in play style that has to be used when new things are introduced. Some will simply say its not very good,there is no skill involved in the game anymore,and make no valid effort to integrate themselves within what will become an exciting challenge for those who wish to make the effort.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I see more disrespect when RTW came out, but mabye it was like that in MTW. ust a observation I made when I made the transition over.

[Swoosh So]

Mars is talking about the skill to win a game i believe, and id have to agree with him mtw was the last game i saw with many tactical choices, cavalry are just too powerful in the recent totalwars.

Also you find that mostly featureless flat maps are played now again reducing the tactical possibilities.

[Swoosh So]

I'd agree with Kronos, comments such as that one only lead to more negativity in the TW online community.

If you believe that skill has dropped in M2TW, then have a few games against Barrett, or some of the Polish clans.
As to behaviour, its simply different.Thankfully ,much of the roleplaying has been dropped from how people talk to each other.There is no less friendliness.
Ask anyone that came from the RTW/BI group,and you'll find that they have tight bonds of kinship,much like the MTW players would have with each other.

Things are simply different now,(not worse),and come the next TW game, the community will evolve again.
Hopefully,a large percentage of the current group of players will make the move to the next game in the series,but you simply don't know.
Some won't like the new release,and stick to the older games.Some won't be able to adapt to the differences in play style that has to be used when new things are introduced. Some will simply say its not very good,there is no skill involved in the game anymore,and make no valid effort to integrate themselves within what will become an exciting challenge for those who wish to make the effort.


If you had been with totalwar from the start you would realise that many things got worse for multiplayer, In terms of the community it definately has dropped also the compeditive ladder chat rooms tournament rooms were all lost.

The community used to be a massive one compared with todays and the multiplayer forums were a hub of activity.

[Jesus`]

That's your opinion alone man, and yea the community has gotten smaller, and your "vets" (rofl) have moved to other games, but that's because there are better games out their for MP.

[Swoosh So]

Its fact...

Wheres your community multiplayer only sites? wheres community vs ca programmer games? wheres the tournaments with creative assembly prizes? wheres the multiplayer clan campaigns? The community needs a hub from which to thrive and i cant find one these days.

Sure it may be thriving in games in the foyer but wheres the community in that? why laugh at so called vets? cause we played the totalwar series from the beginning thats funny?

Yes there are better games out there for mp but thats only because CA have let totalwar multiplayer slip, and hence the reason were posting in a MP improvement thread... so whats your point?

[Grendy]

You're right that CA don't support the MP Community at all nowadays.Shame really.
However,it just means that the MP Community itself has to do all its own work in terms of organising Tournies and prizes.
Looks in the list of tournement links that YM has posted.

Again talk of less skill involved is nonsense.The game has evolved, maybe different skills are needed now. As to Flat Maps, look to CWC or CWB, they use different maps.

Where do the Multiplayers of M2TW post? CCS forums of course.We even have some chaps from CA who has started posting on that site. Sure, it originated as purely a tournament site, but it has evolved into exactly what you are saying you can't find.

.Org really isn't the best place to discuss MP issues, no offence to the admins here. This serves nowadays as a place where a Beginner can get a quick fix.Nothing wrong with that, but as you said, this is not the type of forum where you will find the hub of the Multiplayer Community.

You seek a Competitive ladder? Then keep an eye out on YM's Champions League.The Best of the Best will be competing over the duration of a Season,trying to win it, or simply trying to retain their place in the Top Flight.

We may not be as large an MP community as you had in your day, but we're every bit as commited.This is why it rankles when we hear the Community was better before.

People see what they wish to see. I see a Group of MultiPlayers,(even without official support from CA),able to organise themselves and push the MP Community forward. Grumblings about how things were better before, do nothing to make the situation better.

[Swoosh So]

Well from what you say sounds like you boys are giving it a good go, but my comment still stands that the multiplayer community is not what it once was, there was just so much more going on back in the days of shogun/mtw.

As to the skill of the game it definately has dropped, i say that as ive played all games online including mtw2 and you just dont have to do as much to win :\ its more about the army you pick than anything else.

All that said im planning to get back into the community with the release of kingdoms for some mp campaign action and perhaps ill join some tournaments, i believe only paolai from the wolves clan still plays in tournaments at the moment.

Nice that the cwb is still running (dident know that) was ourselves (wolves) that created that tournament many moons ago.

Hmm yes the ccs site looks pretty active which is a start, ill check it out further when i get kingdoms.

[Puzz3D]

The battle engine used in STW/MTW has been demontrated to be tactically superior to the one used in the RTW/M2TW engine. The playbalance, performance and foyer were also better in the earlier games. The multiplayer community cannot restore any of these things in the new Total War to their former standard. Many multiplayer vets left the community because they are not interested in playing an inferior version of what is essentially the same game.

[zaher]

Here is my MP request, copied from my previous thread:

"While playing this game MP, i noticed how huge are differences between basically identical units which getting used in MP battles. Because of additional uprades cost player cannot get exactly specified unit for each faction. I can put many examples, but let me show 2 from them:

1. Mounted sergeants, Arab cavalry, Byzantine lancers starting with same statistics, but their upgrade potential make them absolutely different units. MS can get only 1 armor upgrade, Arab cav can get 2 and Byz lancers-3. Thats describe their slightly different initial cost and why exactly Byz lancers are lancers ( they get partial plate ).


2. Urban militia, Swordsmen militia, Byz infantry, Dismounted Byz lancers and on the other side examples like dismounted arab cavalry, dismounted sipahi lancers and other dismountes spears. Dismounted byz lancers starting like simple sword militia and become more like dismounted broken lancers later.


So, is it possible to make MP mod, that put armor upgrades correctly on each unit depending on era the game played without any cost, for example:

Early era - add upgrades based on blacksmith
High era - add upgrades based on heavy armourer and swordsmith guild
Late era - add upgrades based on armour factory ( broken lancers NEED it ) and swordsmith guild

Some barracks give also xp bonus for specific units. Combining all those faction specific bonuses which absolutely logically existing in SP, we can add more realistic gameplay in MP battles.It may give to player possibility to use potential of chosen units exactly as they was designed for each faction with their pro and con. What MP player can experience now is only "con". ".


I agree, that TW games are made more for single player, so balance of units exist in SP ( you can even train valor 3 armor 2 Byz spearmen in citadel barracks , they starting with stats of spear militia, and become more like armoured sergeant later ). And yes, you train units for same price with all armor and valor upgrades. Thats why one faction differs from other. Thats why Byz lancers are superior to Mounted sergeants. So, with more attention to MP community will be nice to add this feature to MP.

[Monarch]

I can condense all these guys essays in one word and two letters...



fix gs

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

I can condense all these guys essays in one word and two letters...



fix gs


Amen to that :2thumbsup: