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econ21
08-02-2007, 11:07
This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.

The list of players and description of their avatars is maintained in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1



*************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

Game settings

*MT2TW with the 1.2 patch
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

Charter Amendment 6.2: Medifix will no longer be used and in its stead, FactionHeir's trait and ancillary fixes will be implemented. He will also take full responsibility of any issues regarding these files, however unlikely these may be after extensive testing.

The only mod we will use is the trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix127.zip

The readme is in the spoiler tags.


KOTRfixREADME.txt
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START OF README
-
Version 1.27 (12-08-2007)


This package contains 2 folders and 8 files, one of which is the readme you are currently reading.
I have included folders as this will make it easier for you to figure where a file is to go and prevent errors.
As you can see, one folder is named "data" and another one inside this data folder is labelled "text"
To install the fixes, simply extract/move the data folder directly from the package into your root medieval directory.
This means that after doing so, you should find following files in your medieval/data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt
export_descr_buildings.txt (OPTIONAL - PBM)
descr_campaign_db.xml (OPTIONAL - PBM)

And a folder in your data folder named "text"
Inside that folder, you should find:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


You do not need to extract the readme, as this is purely informational for this installation only.

In short (for the impatient and to quick check):

-Extract data folder directly into medieval game directory.

-Make sure your medieval directory now has a data folder (already present before extracting) and a text folder within (usually not present before)

-Make sure the following files are found inside the data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt
export_descr_buildings.txt (OPTIONAL - PBM)
descr_campaign_db.xml (OPTIONAL - PBM)

-Make sure the following files are found inside the text folder:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


Now to apply those fixes, you will need to run your medieval game exe using a shortcut or a bat file.
The target of said file should read similar to this:

D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Where "D:\Medieval\" varies depending on your installation but medieval2.exe --io.file_first should be constant.

If you encounter any issues with my fixes, please let me know via any means you feel necessary and I will investigate.
As per current version, there are no errors showing up in the medieval error log that are from these fixes.

Also note that those fixes work retroactively in any savegame and at the same time also allow a savegame to continue working without the fixes installed.
As such, it is perfectly safe to use and will not necessitate its continued usage once a game is started.
However as per Charter Amendment 6.2 for the KOTR PBM, this fix is to be used by the chancellor currently running the game.

I hope you enjoy the fixes and if you have problems or suggestions, please let me know.

FactionHeir

-
END OF README
-



At a later stage, we may use a mod to give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints.

Charter Amendment CAE1.1: econ21 will be authorised to give AI factions extra florins; for example, by gifting them a lump sum every 10 turns or so.

To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol.

The console command to give 10000 florins to Hungary is:

add_money hungary, 10000

The list of major factions is:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary

The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.

Probably the best practice is to top up factions with less than 50k, at a rate of perhaps 10k per turn.



Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]

*Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:
In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.

1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.

OOC Charter Amendment:
(a) Where there are multiple player controlled generals in a stack, then the player who plays out the battle is determined by who the computer designates is in command.
(b) An exception is that Household Armies (and the Army of Outremer) are always commanded by the designated Commander of said army.
(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 1: Amend 1.4 by adding: If no build queue is posted for a settlement, the Chancellor can build what he likes. The Chancellor may upgrade a settlement at any time (ie upgrade the walls regardless of a build queue), unless such an upgrade is forbidden in advance by the governor.

1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.

1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.

1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

Charter Amendment E2.1:
(a) If an Edict to impeach the Chancellor is passed with a 2/3 majority, he is removed from office immediately.
(b) After impeachment, a fresh election is held to elect a new Chancellor, although a Kaiser may also exercise his perogative to be Chancellor at that point.
(c) The Chancellor replacing an impeached Chancellor serves out the remainder of the impeached Chancellor's term.
(d) All edicts passed in the Diet that elected the impeached Chancellor remain valid, unless overturned by new Edicts at the Emergency Session that impeached him.
(e) An impeached chancellor is not granted the additional bonus to influence that an ex-chancellor would normally be given.

*Charter Amendment 11.5: All cities must have their maximum amount of free upkeep militia within their walls all times, except when the militia is used to fight armies observed to be within the boundaries of their province.


3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

Charter Amendment 10.2:
(a) No settlement will be captured without an Edict authorising its acquisition in advance.
(b) Captured settlements will be abandoned or given away unless, at the next Diet session, a Charter Amendment incorporates them formally as part of the Reich.
(c) The 33 existing provinces of the Reich are exempt from (a) and (b).
(d) This amendment overrides the constitutional right of Household Armies to conquer one neighbouring province.
Proposed: Kaiser Henry
Seconded: Conrad Salier, Ansehelm von Kastilien

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.
Charter Amendment 8.2: In addition to the Kaiser, an Emergency Session of the Diet may be called by the Prinz, or if three of the four House leaders (Dukes or Stewards) agree to do so.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +6 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 4 points):
Duke: +3
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 2: Amend 4.7 by adding: If a Duke resigns, the Kaiser appoints a successor.

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.
*Charter Amendment 11.7: The section of the Charter which currently reads "5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes" will be changed to the following: 5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes. However, if a rules dispute directly involves the Emperor, the four Dukes of the Realm (or their appointed deputies) will gather to assist the Emperor in clarifying the dispute. A simple vote among the Dukes would decide the dispute, with the Emperor having the tie-breaking vote.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

*Charter Amendment 11.2:The Prince is appointed by the Emperor upon his ascension to the throne. Should a Prince die a new heir has to be appointed immediately.[/i]

*Charter Amendment 11.1: Whenever a large dispute arises over the legitamacy of one's succesion to a position of high power (Kaiser, King of Outremer, or Dukedom), a council shall be set forth to discuss the events and vote on who shal succede. Should the position of Kaiser be questioned, the four Dukes and the King of Outremer shall decide who is to become Kaiser. Should a Dukedom or the King of Outremer be under dispute, those not directly involved in the dispute shall be part of the council. In order for the council to be formed, at least one quarter of the voting power in the Reich is needed to for the council to be formed. Regarding the dukes, half of the voting period within the house is needed as the same with the King of Outremer which requires half of the crusader's votes.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose not to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

*Charter Amendment 9.1:

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward). The King of Outremer may propose up to 3 personal Edicts during each Diet session, but 2 must specifically deal with Outremer affairs.

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.2, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain +1 influence, but only if they are not already a Count in their Duchy, and only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 6 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

Charter Amendment 11.3: The King of Outremer is allowed to propose three Edicts (or Charter Amendments) per Diet Session. Prior to being tabled in the Diet, these must be seconded by two Crusader Counts in the Council of Crusaders.

Charter Amendment 11.6: The position of King of Outremer is appointed by the emperor. This appointment lasts for the duration of the emperors reign or the Kings lifetime, whichever is shorter. The King of Outremer is permitted to resign, if the emperor is willing to accept the resignation, upon which a new King is appointed by the emperor. If the King of Outremer is deemed incapable of the assignment, he may be impeached by the emperor and 2 Dukes.

8. Historical armies

Only historical armies can fight battles (ahistorical stacks can be used for transport).

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Revised maxima for each unit type by number of units in stack

3^Type|1-5|6-10|11-15|16+
7^Generals|2|2|2|2
7^Knights|2|4|6|8
7^Cavalry|2|4|6|8
7^Missile inf|2|3|4|6
7^Elite inf|2|3|4|6
7^Other foot|Any|Any|Any|Any
7^Artillery|1|2|3|4


Crusades are exempt from restrictions on the number of generals.

Unit type definitions:
- Knights: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights or equivalent heavy cavalry.
- Cavalry: Any mounted knights plus non-knightly cavalry (Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants, Turcomans etc)
-Foot missiles: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners etc
-Elite infantry: Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass
-Other foot: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

econ21
08-02-2007, 11:31
In the last thread, we had started a discussion on proxying - having another player fight your battle.

I think the need for proxying could be reduced with coordination between the Chancellor and the player. If the Chancellor knows you are away for a week, he is not going to put your general in a dangerous battle during that period. One idea that occurs is to have a thread for reference (we could call it "Active Duty Roster" or something) where every player has one post that they edit to keep up to date their availability[1]. The Chancellor could consult this to see who is available to fight their battles. This is more work for the Chancellor, but might add something to the game - we will have to make sure we have sufficient generals in key sectors.

Another issue is long term inability to fight battles, exemplified by AussieGiant's circumstances. Given that general's good traits (and IC standing) depend so heavily on their fighting battles, I think a permanent consignment to desk duty would be unfair. So in such cases, I am happy to allow some proxying. But I think we should offer this only in a few extreme cases, say absence for over a month. If you are going away on holiday or facing some tough work pressures for a few weeks, having your general take some R&R seems a better solution than proxying.

So my proposal, for a trial period, is that we adhere to the following rules:

When a player controlled general gets into a fight, they have 48 hours to personally fight the battle. If they do not, then it is autoresolved. The following exceptions apply:
(a) Multiple player controlled generals in the battle - a junior general may fight the battle if the senior one is unavailable.
(b) The Chancellor may order a retreat rather than an autoresolve.
(c) When the player is unavailable to fight for an extended period of time (more than a month), they may appoint a proxy.

But that we soften those rules by having an "Active Duty Roster" thread that the Chancellor can use to avoid setting up battles for those unable to fight them.

Any thoughts?

OverKnight
08-02-2007, 11:55
Some good thoughts econ21.

I would certainly use an active duty roster to inform my moves as Chancellor. However, it should be the individual players responsibility to keep their status accurate as Chancellors already have enough to do.

Also even if I know that a player is going on vacation, given the locations of avatars it might not be doable to arrange a substitute player in time. For example, Outremer has plenty of players who could switch off, but the wilds of the Austrian frontier with Hungary don't. To make this system efficient, I'd have to have some warning that someone's going away, not just a day of leaving notification.

I will try to keep all this info in mind, but my first responsibility as Chancellor is to keep the game moving.

TinCow
08-02-2007, 11:57
LOL, the last OOC thread lasted only 8 game years.

Northnovas
08-02-2007, 12:00
The proxy method has it's use and I think AG is a unique situation but for the time you stood your avatar down so the other avatar in the house can get a experience but it should not stop you from being involved and using a proxy to fight the next big battle.
I think if there is two way communication with the Chancellor then they will know prior to a battle.
For myself I know I will be unavailable for an extended period then I will step back. However, for a day or two absence then why not a proxy or if it is only Rebels then auto-calc.
I would not want anyone to step away from the game because they cannot play at the present time.
It will just take some planning on how much proxy to use for an avatar.

edit: I thought I would be the second post. I agree with the above posts.

AussieGiant
08-02-2007, 12:19
Hi All,

I've only ever had Ituralde and now OverKnight fight my battles.

I've been home for just 6 weeks in 2 week intervals since March this year.

Believe me guy's this is the last year it will be like this as it it no fun at all to travel this much. :thumbsdown:

The active duty roster is a good idea. I certainly see the need for people to play their battles and not consistently hand them over to someone else.

I'd always thought that if Ituralde could not fight my battles then mine should be auto-calculated.

My only other concern is that is small house like Austria's any loss of an avatar would be very hard to deal with.

It's certainly a concentrated situation to have such a small house with it's Duke avatar being controlled by a guy who is basically never able to fight battles.

I'm not trying to create an exception but if a system could be created to deal with the majority of the situations then that would be great. I would personally ask for a special dispensation for my circumstance.

I hope most of you understand.

Keep in mind guy's that if OK or Ituralde sent back a report that Arnold died in the battle I would not protest. That's the risk I am prepared to take in order to play this game. I pretty sure most people would want to fight their own battles to prevent this from happening.

Cheers
AG

AussieGiant
08-02-2007, 13:10
Now that we have this session FINALLY over with.

I'm still not sure how CA 11.1 and CA 11.7 work in the future. They overlap in my understanding.

I also think we need to put a cap on the total number of Edicts and CA's in one session.

Everyone keeps all their privelidges but we cap edicts a 10 and CA's are 2 or 4.

Otherwise we're going to be drowning in bull£$% next time :juggle2:

OverKnight
08-02-2007, 13:16
11.7 clarifies how to judge a rules dispute if an Emperor is directly involved. 11.1 spells out, sorta, how to arbitrate a disputed succession.

They cover two different areas.

As for the high numbers of CAs, I think that was a product of the succession controversy and not a trend. I think we're good. If we capped Edicts and CAs, someone could spam a few to block someone else's proposals.

TinCow
08-02-2007, 13:19
Again, I will be proposing a Charter Text Cleanup Amendment at the next Diet. So if you have any suggestions about specific language that needs to be tweaked, go ahead and post it.

FactionHeir
08-02-2007, 15:08
The multi part investigation story is up, for those who wish to have a read.
More to follow soon (its late here and its getting rather expensive to stay on any longer at this point). Stay tuned for more murders and plots! ~:)

As for the roster, I think its a good idea, but I think it maybe would be better to lower the limit to 3 weeks, as that can at times be two chancellorships already.

OverKnight: In the light of this discussion, if you want to progress quickly, feel free to skip my battle and move Hans further down towards Jerusalem. If the Sultan blocks the path or would cause enough delay to not make me reach the region this turn even, attack and either autoresolve or fight at your own disgression, depending on odds. Wouldn't want to be set back from the crusade.

OverKnight
08-02-2007, 16:04
Battle Queue 1264

Count Zirn

Though you will be fighting under the Chancellor's banner, this is your battle to command since I am not a Knight. Our Crusade Armies have combined south of Jerusalem and are ready to assault the walls. Only a unit of Mamluk Horse Archers defends the city, but a Saracen relief force of mostly siege weapons will try to intervene. Count Hans and his Crusade forces will reinforce you from the north, though he has had no time to build siege equipment himself. Destroy the relief army and take the city in the name of God! Sack the city if you wish as a lesson to the non-Christians who live there, but no exterminations. OOC: Technically you could use Matthias's night fighting ability to just take the city, but let's make it a little more of a challenge.

Kaiser Siegfried

Your Majesty has caught Ragnald of Vestmanna and his army before they could cross into Antwerp. Since the Danish Army is in our territory, the Pope will not mind if we defend our lands. Crush them, mein Kaiser!

Prinz Elberhard

You moved west to take on Khan Orda. Some of your troops have been transferred to King Salier, but you have enough left to finish the Khan. Again killing him is your priority in this battle.

King Salier

On his way to engage Khan Orda, Prinz Elberhard has driven Khanzada Jebu south. With men from Aleppo and reinforcements from the Prinz, you now face him. Jebu's forces have no place left to go, finish them and the Khanling!

Here's the save: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1264.zip

First come, first serve. Post when you download and post a link to the new save when you upload.

TinCow
08-02-2007, 16:07
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/7/71/Kirk_scream.jpg

AussieGiant
08-02-2007, 16:11
Could not have said it better myself TC. :balloon2:

OverKnight
08-02-2007, 16:57
The report for 1262 has been updated.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1626536&postcount=237

The report for 1264 will be up soon. I encountered a first for this PBM.

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 17:06
I wonder if Warluster and FH can incorporate the "kill the Danish King" mission into their stories. The coincidence of getting that mission around this time is just awesome. Also, I too looked at the new save game and whole lot of avatar changes happened. I'll just let OK put out the report to make it official IC.

Stig
08-02-2007, 17:18
Gunther died I just heard? Pity just now when DG is on holiday, haven't seen the save myself yet, and I don't know what's going on with the Teutonic Crusade, so I've no idea if Ansehelm himself is even aware of the fact he just became Duke.

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 17:23
Thats why I PM'd you OOC instead of IC. I think its more appropriate if Ansehelm gives the news than Jan. And there is another "Franconian" matter to take care of.


*insert dramatic music*

"The Franconians have hunted many people. This time...they are hunting one of their own..."

:laugh4:

Stig
08-02-2007, 17:25
:daisy:? :huh:

OverKnight
08-02-2007, 17:36
The Teutonic Crusade is away, finally. I keep my campaign promises. They'll enter Russian territory in 1266.

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 17:36
Well, OK just posted the chancellor report so I'll stop with the teasers. Jens von Kassel got bribed by the Russians. He is one of Fredericus von Hamburg's son-in-laws. Luckily, he was not a good avatar (at least age 50) for players so we haven't lost anything. There was even talk of putting the avatar out to sea in a leaky boat so this actually works out perfectly.

Sorry to DG about his avatar but it was not unexpected. Hope you jump back in soon when you get back. Looks like Ansehelm is duke now officially.

And I'm glad that WL can get back in now that Athawolf is of age.

Stig
08-02-2007, 17:41
The Teutonic Crusade is away, finally. I keep my campaign promises. They'll enter Russian territory in 1266.
Great, in that case Ansehelm will still be able to speak in the Diet for this turn.
I plan on withdrawing him from the Diet for the duration of the Crusade, sure messagers will bring the news of victories and for PM work Ansehelm will still be available, but not in the Diet anymore ... tho that does mean some activity loss ~D

gibsonsg91921
08-02-2007, 17:47
does that make me steward? ;) lol jk

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 17:47
Stig, I jumped in and had Jan announce the death of Gunther. I figure that once it is in a chancellor report, it is public knowledge. Ansehelm can and should come in and announce his "rise to Dukeness" though.

Stig
08-02-2007, 17:53
Gah, I typed my announcement at the same time :furious3:
You're too quick

OverKnight
08-02-2007, 17:55
We've got a couple options with the Traitor, which is why I kept him out of the Queue.

First, kill him now.

Second, wait a turn and see if he hires mercs and then kill him.

Option two would be more interesting.


Thoughts?

Stig
08-02-2007, 17:57
Well personally I wouldn't mind meeting him in Moscow ~D
Nah kill him, either by assassin or with force

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 18:03
While option two would be more interesting, option one makes more sense from a RP perspective. This man just joined a faction we are at war with and is wandering way behind the front lines. He should be immediately hunted down and killed with all available garrison units.

TinCow
08-02-2007, 18:13
I like keeping track of all the avatars, but I can't keep Jens von Kassel in the Library, since he is no longer a HRE avatar. I also do not want to give him a 'Memorial' since he is a traitor. So, I have edited the first post of the Mausoleum to include a hidden "Imperial Pillory." All avatars who are traitors or otherwise deemed to not deserve a Memorial (i.e. by Diet edict) will be placed there.

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 18:18
TC, I think that is a good idea. :2thumbsup:

The anal-retentive side of me wants to keep track of everyone too. But he does not deserve to be in the mausoleum. :no:

Stig
08-02-2007, 18:21
I like keeping track of all the avatars, but I can't keep Jens von Kassel in the Library, since he is no longer a HRE avatar. I also do not want to give him a 'Memorial' since he is a traitor. So, I have edited the first post of the Mausoleum to include a hidden "Imperial Pillory." All avatars who are traitors or otherwise deemed to not deserve a Memorial (i.e. by Diet edict) will be placed there.
mmmm, pity you decide on that now, Hummel already is in the Mausoleum :laugh4:

TinCow
08-02-2007, 18:24
Propose an Edict at the next Diet. No reason he can't be moved if the majority want it.

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 18:24
While I joined just after the whole "Hummel affair", I would hardly equate Ulrich Hummel with Jens von Kassel. :beam:

gibsonsg91921
08-02-2007, 18:34
ulrich hummel was ambitious and powerhungry, jens von kassel is just a piece a :daisy:.

GeneralHankerchief
08-02-2007, 18:35
I am downloading the save and will fight the battle momentarily.

Tamur
08-02-2007, 18:55
I can't remember where I saw it (posts move quickly in here!) but is there a "active duty" area where we can post/edit when we will be offline? We're closing on a house this afternoon, and I will be competely out of touch until late tomorrow, and likely for most of the weekend.

Have fun all!

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 19:03
I think an active duty area is being conceived of but right now we just post in here and PM the Chancellor. With your avatar being in a castle, I don't think its too much of an issue.

GeneralHankerchief
08-02-2007, 19:05
Battle fought, Khanzada killed, losses light.

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/KotR/kotr_138.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1264-1.zip

I don't think a battle report is necessary.

Northnovas
08-02-2007, 19:24
I guess it's my turn I will pick up the save and send Karl and the Boys in. If things don't go well it's a go on my coordinates ZD5343436 + AX525290.

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 19:25
Good luck NN!

I eagerly await word on how we did!

:2thumbsup:

Stuperman
08-02-2007, 19:26
We've got a couple options with the Traitor, which is why I kept him out of the Queue.

First, kill him now.

Second, wait a turn and see if he hires mercs and then kill him.

Option two would be more interesting.


Thoughts?

Well, I pm'd you saying that I'd love to kill him, I'm not too worried about getting bribed myself as Gerhard has 10 loyalty, but option 2 sounds much more entertaining. If gerhard gets 'delayed' for a turn that's cool by me.

Northnovas
08-02-2007, 20:48
Here is the next save:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1264-2.zip

The results:

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/northnovas/Karl%20Battles/1264success.jpg

One busy general:

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/northnovas/Karl%20Battles/1264stats.jpg

Will post the rest in the story thread Sir Steffan. I sacked the city and the little money I used to repair the walls.

Stig
08-02-2007, 20:54
What, the crusade over already? Couldn't you guys hangaround for a couple of turns? ~D

Ituralde
08-02-2007, 21:32
Gonna go ahead and grab the save then!

GeneralHankerchief
08-02-2007, 21:39
Wait, you sacked the place?

Ooogah... :dizzy2:

Stig
08-02-2007, 21:43
Wait, you sacked the place?

Ooogah... :dizzy2:
Oooh, some people won't be happy with that.

Ituralde
08-02-2007, 21:55
Fought and won!

kotr1164-3 (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1264-3.rar)

Ratio was 20:9 and I decided to release all prisoners. After all the Pope suggests that we cease hostilities.:beam:

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 22:02
Wait, you sacked the place?

Ooogah... :dizzy2:

Yeah I was kinda wondering why we did that...

I hope you'll make sure Conrad knows that Jan was not in command of that stack... :laugh4:

*edit*

I guess the orders came from here:


Sack the city if you wish as a lesson to the non-Christians who live there, but no exterminations.

Stig
08-02-2007, 22:07
Yeah I was kinda wondering why we did that...

I hope you'll make sure Conrad knows that Jan was not in command of that stack... :laugh4:
Depends on it, ehh? The King won't like it, the Duke will :laugh4:

Privateerkev
08-02-2007, 22:16
Depends on it, ehh? The King won't like it, the Duke will :laugh4:

Well, since Jan was in no way in command of that stack, and I the player did not fight that battle, Jan hopefully won't take the blame and certainly can not take the praise for that sacking.

:hide:

econ21
08-02-2007, 23:54
Downloading the save now.

Fought the battle - respect to those Mongol Khans, what I thought would be a piece of cake was a bit of a nightmare. The Khan's bodyguard just tore the heart of my infantry. They got him in the end, though.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1264-4.zip

econ21
08-03-2007, 01:18
I think I have got the playlist up to date (not the stats - I only do them before votes). If Dutch_guy is around, there are two decent spare Franconian avatars. I am not sure if FLYdude has his eye on Helmut von Hamburg - it can be fun to keep it within the family; if so, it might be best if Dutch_guy picks Dieter Bresch. First in the mausoleum, first served, though.

FactionHeir
08-03-2007, 02:06
No reason Hans can't be excluded from the Mausoleum after all that :tongue:

Interesting decision to sack Jerusalem. Let's see how long Zirn stays Crusader Count now heh

Privateerkev
08-03-2007, 02:08
Also, remember that Helmut is with Ansehelm on the Teutonic Crusade. And Dieter is in Outremer. Things to keep in mind when picking avatars.

That and Helmut and Dieter are family. Their brothers-in-law to each other.

StoneCold
08-03-2007, 02:28
Econ, maybe you should sticky the active duty thread. I have the impression it will be set up such that all players will edit their own post, to active or away, so it will drop out of the 1st page after the initial flurry of postings?

OverKnight
08-03-2007, 02:38
I'm taking back the save and will post a report update and continue playing once caffeinated.

As for Jens von Kassel, Gerhard Steffen will be pursuing him, but I might wait for the new year to see if the traitor recruits anyone. There's something cool about a turncoat recruiting a Russian Merc army in the Bavarian heart land.

AussieGiant
08-03-2007, 02:40
Regarding the traitor.

Arnold's free...I'd say he would be more than happy to hunt the bastard down.

You know, being cruel and cunning and all!!

As for sacking the holy city...well well well, three holes in the ground...what have we here then gov'nor!!!

OverKnight
08-03-2007, 02:46
Eh. . .we sacked Jerusalem the last time we took it. The only time we occupied was when Henry took it originially.

I find your lack of faith in the Chancellor. . .disturbing. :laugh4:

Privateerkev
08-03-2007, 02:49
Wait, you sacked the place?

"Those responsible have been sacked." ~ Monty Python and the Holy Grail


*edit*

And all those guys with dread think that the Crusaders don't know how to have fun...

OverKnight
08-03-2007, 08:10
The report for 1264 has been updated:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1627672&postcount=239

Stig
08-03-2007, 08:32
I think I have got the playlist up to date (not the stats - I only do them before votes). If Dutch_guy is around, there are two decent spare Franconian avatars. I am not sure if FLYdude has his eye on Helmut von Hamburg - it can be fun to keep it within the family; if so, it might be best if Dutch_guy picks Dieter Bresch. First in the mausoleum, first served, though.
PK is right, Dieter is also a son (son in law) of Fredericus, and he is currently in the Outremer, so would FLYdude want to stay there that's the one to go for.
Helmut has been send with the Teutonic Crusade, as a volunteer, as no-one played him anyway.

StoneCold
08-03-2007, 10:01
Another suggestion on the active duty list, maybe you guys should add in your avatar's name on your post so that there is less chance of mistaken identity? This is because some of you guys do not use your avatar's name as your handle.

OverKnight
08-03-2007, 10:27
Battle Queue 1266

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1266.zip

First come first serve. Post when you take, post a link when you upload.

Ansehelm von Kastilien

Duke Ansehelm, the Teutonic Crusade faces its first battle. A small Russian force to the north blocks your progress on the Riga road. Crush them, but remember reinforcements will be few, conserve your forces.

Peter von Kastilien

The Polish forces trapped north of the river have foolishly closed on Thorn. Captain Przemsysl has even besieged the Castle. You have been reinforced from Jonas von Mahren's army. Relieve the siege and crush all Polish forces close to Thorn. Take care with your brother Fritz's life.

Gerhard Steffen

Father, Jens von Kassel has fled to Florence's port in a desperate attempt to take ship. You have your own retainers and two units of City Militia and Athalwolf von Salza will come in as a reinforcement. Kill the traitor and see if you can get Athalwolf knighted.

Good luck. :2thumbsup:

Stig
08-03-2007, 10:36
Going to fight it now, expect it back in an hour or so

Stig
08-03-2007, 11:10
Done and won, lost 36 men
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1266-2.rar

https://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d121/the_Stig_/Forumite%20Battle%20Result/0049.jpg
Those 219 have been executed obviously

Ituralde
08-03-2007, 11:57
I believe Overknight could probably give some feedback in a few days time about the Active Duty List. Since we only edit the posts it may become tedious to spot differences. So maybe a change of status should still be PMed to the Chancellor?

econ21
08-03-2007, 12:15
So maybe a change of status should still be PMed to the Chancellor?

Good idea. :bow:

Stuperman
08-03-2007, 14:21
My battle is at least 12 hours away guys, and all I have to say is WOOT, WOOT some action.

AussieGiant
08-03-2007, 14:55
WOOT WOOT indeed Mr Stuperman...

Kill'em all I say!!

Privateerkev
08-03-2007, 15:33
WOOT WOOT indeed Mr Stuperman...

Kill'em all I say!!


*sigh*

The next von-Hamburg family picnic is going to be really awkward...

Stig
08-03-2007, 15:50
Aye especially since Helmut has 4 Dread and is Jan's direct opposite ~D

AussieGiant
08-03-2007, 16:12
What a picnic that will be!!! :laugh4:

Privateerkev
08-03-2007, 17:41
What a picnic that will be!!! :laugh4:

Yeah, I can see it now. Jan walks up to his older brother and asks what is new. Helmut replies, "Oh not much. Ansehelm is just teaching me how to massacre Russian peasants..."

Jan will shake his head and walk over to one of his sisters and ask what is new. "Oh not much. My husband just went and decided to join the Russian Army."

Meanwhile Dad will just stand up and ask, "alright, who wants potato salad!"

:no:

econ21
08-03-2007, 17:54
Battle report for the death of Khan Oda is now up.

TevashSzat
08-03-2007, 23:42
Just got back and have no idea what happened these past few days so I guess Ill will have to stand out of the Ducal Review.

Privateerkev
08-04-2007, 01:26
This is a reply to the Diet thread but far more appropriate in this thread.


Duke Arnold, you will find that very few people in Outremer wear the pink suit. Indeed, the only reason we came out is to kill as many people as we can without fear of reproach from the Papacy.

1. That quote can be taken so many different ways...

2. I threw away my pink suit because it doesn't match my pastel helmet.

GeneralHankerchief
08-04-2007, 01:28
Oh crap, I forgot to write "here"!!!

Privateerkev
08-04-2007, 01:33
I was wondering...

There are many reasons to "come out"...

Stuperman
08-04-2007, 04:31
I'm taking the save now, I'll be back in a bit, and CA 10.2 is utterly insane, I hate it.

Stuperman
08-04-2007, 05:12
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1266-3.rar

https://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9162/bb1ho8.th.jpg (https://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bb1ho8.jpg)

Save and the BUtcher's bill, the young fellow Gerhard was fightning with is knighted, Battle report will be up in ~72 hours.

GeneralHankerchief
08-04-2007, 05:34
Third wave already? Wow, that was quick.

OverKnight
08-04-2007, 05:40
There goes the peace dividend, such as it was. . .

GeneralHankerchief
08-04-2007, 05:43
I can see it now in the Diet:




Isn't it CONVENIENT that Outremer always seems to have a foe? How, they can never quite back down on funds and allocations because this ever-looming specter of the Mongols is always upon them?

Can't you see it, people? This is just an elaborate plot by King Salier and his little flunkies to continually usurp resources and power from Europe! The Mongols are a manufactured threat, a "bogeyman" if you will. Ever notice how none of the commanders die, despite the fact that these are supposedly the greatest fighters in the world? It's all fake, people. All fake.

AussieGiant
08-04-2007, 05:45
GH's comment is pretty astounding. Arnold's gonna love that at some point down the line :laugh4:

Mongols round 3. Anyone for some horse kebab?

GeneralHankerchief
08-04-2007, 05:46
GH's comment is pretty astounding. Arnold's gonna love that at some point down the line :laugh4:

That was just Conrad making one of his (extremely rare) jokes. :shifty:

AussieGiant
08-04-2007, 05:53
That was just Conrad making one of his (extremely rare) jokes. :shifty:

Oh...well...:beam: that was so dry I needed a glass of water after I read it!!

And would Arnold really be that biased? I've said very little about Outremer.

Still, could it all be fake? Maybe :beam:

I like the reasoning GH. Very good of you.

Can you answer Arnolds question in the Diet?

AussieGiant
08-04-2007, 05:57
I'm taking the save now, I'll be back in a bit, and CA 10.2 is utterly insane, I hate it.


I actually like it. But hey, I'm a complex guy. Say yes to this, say no to that. There's never any consitency :balloon2:

Privateerkev
08-04-2007, 09:19
Save and the BUtcher's bill, the young fellow Gerhard was fightning with is knighted, Battle report will be up in ~72 hours.

I think thats Athawolf. WL will be happy to know he's a knight.


And yay! The horseys are back! :jumping:

Stig
08-04-2007, 09:27
Maybe we should make sure the Horseys get a region this time. Would be cool to have them around longer.

Privateerkev
08-04-2007, 09:31
Well, if they'd just stay in Baghdad, they could have a region. But they always seem to want one of ours. And guess who is in charge of of the easternmost settlement... o_O


"I need guns...lots of guns..."

:charge: :hmg:

Stig
08-04-2007, 09:36
Sacrifice yourself for the sake of a fun game ~D

Privateerkev
08-04-2007, 09:38
Oh I plan on it. I just want heavy machine guns on the towers so I can take a whole lot of them with me. Like the scene from Starship Troopers when the bugs are piling up at the fort wall. :beam:

FactionHeir
08-04-2007, 10:27
Looks quite like Hans didn't miss the Mongols as he thought.
This should be fun.

gibsonsg91921
08-04-2007, 19:18
hey guys, we could use a few more players in Ignoramus's Magna Carta PBM if anyone wants to join. cecil and I are in it, and warluster was too

TinCow
08-04-2007, 20:29
I can see it now in the Diet:




Isn't it CONVENIENT that Outremer always seems to have a foe? How, they can never quite back down on funds and allocations because this ever-looming specter of the Mongols is always upon them?

Can't you see it, people? This is just an elaborate plot by King Salier and his little flunkies to continually usurp resources and power from Europe! The Mongols are a manufactured threat, a "bogeyman" if you will. Ever notice how none of the commanders die, despite the fact that these are supposedly the greatest fighters in the world? It's all fake, people. All fake.

Can I borrow that?

Privateerkev
08-04-2007, 20:36
I think GH copyrighted it. Your going to have to put a footnote at the bottom attributing the source. :laugh4:

GeneralHankerchief
08-04-2007, 21:25
Sure, go ahead. :laugh4:

gibsonsg91921
08-04-2007, 21:32
dang! i dont have winRAR and i cant download it. i guess you'll either have to autoresolve my battle or someone else can play it. sorry

Privateerkev
08-04-2007, 21:34
Why can't you download it? Need help finding it?

Stig
08-04-2007, 21:49
I think he means unable to download winRAR ... maybe someone else can download the file quickly, unpack it and zip it instead

gibsonsg91921
08-04-2007, 22:50
thats fine, if its close or in our favor odds someone can auto it, and if not someone else can fight it

econ21
08-04-2007, 23:37
Gibson, you are on active duty - you have to fight the battle or Peter will be shamed for dereliction of duty. :whip:

Here's the save in zip format:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1266-3.zip

Good hunting!

gibsonsg91921
08-05-2007, 01:16
thanks econ :))

ill fight em now then

gibsonsg91921
08-05-2007, 01:40
Alright I fought both my battles. I forgot to take the endgame SS :oops: for the second one, but we crushed them and had minimal losses. I have the prisoners SS if thats any consolation.

First one:

http://123pichosting.com/images/417petester1.JPG

Second battle's executed prisoners (making Péter now Péter the Merciless)
http://123pichosting.com/images/1753petester2.JPG

The save is kotr1266-4.zip (please forgive my n00bness as idk how to post a link for it here)

Stuperman
08-05-2007, 03:00
Sorry gibsong, I forgot about the whole .rar thing I'll try and remember in the future.

FactionHeir
08-05-2007, 03:10
Several more stories up for those that want some read.

gibsonsg91921
08-05-2007, 03:49
coincidentally, how do i post a link for a save in the forums? im thinking of doing a story that involves a save.

Privateerkev
08-05-2007, 04:01
I'm sure there are a few ways to do it. But the way I do is this. Go to the savegames on the Org. Right click on the one you want and pick the "open link in new tab" option. Copy the whole thing that is in the address bar in that tab. In your post, pick the button that has the planet with the paperclip looking thing on it. That is the "insert link" tool. Paste the URL into the window that pops up. Thats it. :book:

gibsonsg91921
08-05-2007, 04:16
alrighty. i was playing the save 100 years into the future, disbanding armies and killing off emperors. i wanted peter to have a nightmare and gunther would tell him to stay strong or this is what it would look like

OverKnight
08-05-2007, 05:41
Once I get back from work, I will take the save. There's still a lot to do in 1266, especially considering new developments, so I can't promise a quick conclusion to the year. If I don't have a battle queue up for 1268 on Sunday, there will be one for Monday.

On an OOC note, our reputation is so bad that even if I wanted to sell Jerusalem to the Pope it wouldn't have worked. He'd only accept it as a gift. This most likely means that we won't be able to achieve marriage alliances anymore either.

I wish I could pull another diplomatic triumph out of my hat, like I did with Otto, but the world has changed since 1180.

AussieGiant
08-05-2007, 10:46
Can't we repair our reputation?

OverKnight
08-05-2007, 10:52
Part of our loss of reputation is due to our sheer size and military strength. People don't trust the heavily armed neighbor next door whose house is ten times larger than theirs.

Also, with the game set to H on the campaign map, this causes our relations with others to fall even if we do nothing.

Also all those exterminations, executions and assasinations add up over time.

The sheer amount of bribe money we would need to improve our reputation is beyond our means. We can be well loved or well armed, but not both.

AussieGiant
08-05-2007, 10:59
That's what I just thought.

We've reached that size where we are always going to be met with a prickly response.

Fair enough.

I'm looking forward to the next fews years out east.

How are those Scicilian's doing OK. Without the game I can't see anything.

OverKnight
08-05-2007, 11:10
The Sicilian Noble who lead the attack on Durazzo is wandering back to his lands through Ragusa and northern Italy. A captain led small sicilian stack is right next to Ragusa. They were also booted off Sardinia.

I haven't gotten the normal signs of impending betrayal, no armies hovering on our border or ships close to out ports. So I'm assuming most of this is just bad path finding and taking a land route rather than a quick trip across the Adriatic.

AussieGiant
08-05-2007, 11:18
Damn.

I was hoping for a little action for me/us!! :laugh4:

OverKnight
08-05-2007, 11:27
Ugh. The last thing I need as Chancellor is a 5 front war, 4 is good enough.

Our finances are crap. When I was Chancellor the first time around, I was able to have something building in almost every town each turn by the mid-point of the term. Now, I'm lucky if it's 1/4. More expensive troops + More expensive buildings + stagnant revenue = less buildings

It's frustrating.

AussieGiant
08-05-2007, 12:32
That's why we all elected you though :laugh4:

I'm going to have to go and cause some trouble in the Diet then.

FactionHeir
08-05-2007, 15:11
Meh, I managed to build in every settlement during 7 or 10 turns of my chancellorship even with Mongols around :grin:
Still, buildings these days get more expensive, so its understandable in addition to build policies changing etc.

Reputation is not affected by assassination, which is why Hans didn't have too much fuss about doing it. It is affected by:
Being at war, executing prisoners (not by ransom decline), extermination, sacking, pact breaking.
Increased by:
Having an alliance, releasing prisoners, occupying, getting mutual military access for a longer time.

Tried to increase it during my term, but considering only Hans and Henry were releasing people and everyone else was exterminating and executing... :tongue:

Maybe we do need a CA.

gibsonsg91921
08-05-2007, 15:18
i execute, im peter the merciless now. and im not sublevel loyalty - i think im getting the stat inf next time.

I played ahead, and Athalwolf von Salza got bribed too. its a russian 10 influence diplomat who gets a cash injection and is by rome, watch out for him.

OverKnight
08-05-2007, 15:27
Battle Queue 1268

Edit: Please check for latest save.

First come, first serve. Post when you take, and post a link when you upload. Pictures of the pre-battle screen and casualty screen are needed.

Fritz von Kastilien

Welcome to the Eastern Front. You have taken command of the Franconian Household Army and driven south to attack a force of Poles led by a Captain Pavol. We will never match Polish numbers so we must decimate their forces while conserving our own. Destroy them!

Friedrich Scherer

The French have besieged Paris. The Swabian Household Army is ready to relieve the siege. Break them, but do not throw German lives away.

Hans - Victory

I have found your numerous letters to me on the finer arts of the Chancellorship most edifying, however you must put down your pen for battle. You have pursued Sultan Moussa into the desert, I want the man who ordered the extermination of Jerusalem dead.

TevashSzat
08-06-2007, 00:06
I will fight the battle tomorrow so someone else can go before me

AussieGiant
08-06-2007, 02:28
Nice story GH!!

Intrigue, I love intrigue!!

FactionHeir
08-06-2007, 02:57
Taking the save now.

Fought and won the battle. Egypt ordered a retreat after I charged my cav summarily into their rear after shooting down most their cav using my missiles. Sultan got away but he only has 2 depleted merc units with him now.

He can be reached by Salier if needed.
I took the liberty to pursue the rebels nearby after noticing Hans didn't have the MP to go after the Sultan, but they retreated too.


Battle Odds: 1:1
Victory type: Clear
https://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9648/0007da0.jpg

OverKnight
08-06-2007, 04:19
Sweet, quite a beating you gave them, that Sultan seems to have 9 lives. GeneralHankerchief, if you want to pursue feel free. I'm at work so I don't have access to the save. Use your best judgement.

GeneralHankerchief
08-06-2007, 04:21
I can take the save tomorrow afternoon GMT-5. Until then, somebody else can feel free to pick it up.

OverKnight
08-06-2007, 04:24
All right. I'll take a look at the save when I get home and update the queue if needed. I don't like to leave enemy Generals lying around as they can recruit mercs, but we might have bigger fish to fry.

AussieGiant
08-06-2007, 05:10
NN just sent me some screenies.

These Scicilian's are getting a little to ballsy standing around Ragusa like it's a sunday afternoon drive.

OverKnight
08-06-2007, 05:40
In this PBEM, the Sicilians were loyal allies, but never too bright. I would guess they've had 3 or 4 failed attacks on Sardinia followed by short lived truces. Not to mention attacking the Papacy, which is just stupid, unless you have good IC reasons.

AussieGiant
08-06-2007, 06:00
That seems to be their SOP.

I'm thinking of an IC slap session with this unit near Ragusa.

FactionHeir
08-06-2007, 06:07
The Sultan had hired every single merc in the region, so I don't think he'd be able to hire more in the next 2-3 turns.

OverKnight
08-06-2007, 07:24
Here's the link to the latest save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-1.zip

TevashSzat
08-06-2007, 12:20
I got it.

Too sleepy now, probably cant fight battle well so I'll fight it at like noon today

OverKnight
08-06-2007, 13:23
Cool, just be sure that that you're using the latest save when you play, as there's another battle besides Friedrich's that's yet to be fought.

Tamur
08-06-2007, 14:19
Well, guess I had best get my name on that Active Duty roster now. I lost the internet for nearly the whole weekend.

I won't be able to play out that battle until 06.00 GMT tomorrow. If that is a problem, someone else can take it or autoresolve at your discretion.

Stuperman
08-06-2007, 16:40
FTH are the Mongols doing? It'd be cool to watch the Mongols fight the Timturmids (sp)

GeneralHankerchief
08-06-2007, 18:31
Since Xdeath hasn't posted that he's fighting the battle, I'm going to nip the save.

Downloading now.

GeneralHankerchief
08-06-2007, 18:53
One dead Sultan, ready for cooking. He definitely went down fighting, though.

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/KotR/kotr_139.jpg

New save: http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-2.zip

Tamur
08-06-2007, 19:55
I take it from the lack of OverKnight response that it's ok to fight Fritz' battle? I think I'm officially starting to feel excited about this, focus problems at work. ~:) Poor Fritz though, horribly scarred, feeling invincible, and an underachiever with something to prove. I fear for his life.

Stig
08-06-2007, 19:56
Heh I autoresolved that battle and when he came out he was Fritz the Scarred ~D

beware Tamur

econ21
08-07-2007, 00:44
I take it from the lack of OverKnight response that it's ok to fight Fritz' battle?

Yes, as I understand it, Fritz got his marching orders here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1630018&postcount=119

With this PBM, we have moved towards a system of the Chancellor posting the battles for the turn. Then players post when they download and upload saves. It seems to work quickly and efficiently.

Good hunting!

TinCow
08-07-2007, 00:52
With this PBM, we have moved towards a system of the Chancellor posting the battles for the turn. Then players post when they download and upload saves. It seems to work quickly and efficiently.

I hereby dub the process the "on-the-FLYdude system" in honor of its creator. It's certainly the most efficient method we've ever seen.

Privateerkev
08-07-2007, 01:08
Since it involves people taking the save when its "open", I propose we rename it the Open FLYdude System.

:beam:

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 01:22
Actually GH's taking of the save was official, I apologize for not formalising it.

Xdeathfire and Tamur have the remaining battles. Tamur has mentioned 0600 GMT Tuesday, which sounds fine. I hope Xdeathfire will have fought by that time as well.

FactionHeir
08-07-2007, 02:20
Actually it would be the econ21omical system as econ came up with it first and used it during his chancellorship.

TevashSzat
08-07-2007, 02:28
Bah! I already fought the battle but had internet troubles and couldnt get it posted until just now. I'm too lazy to fight it again so I think I'll just let it autoresolve since the odds are pretty good for me

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 02:38
Gah! Ummm, GeneralHankerchief, could you refight your battle off of Xdeathfire's uploaded save? We've got two 1268-2 and that needs to be resolved before Tamur downloads.

If GH doesn't feel like doing it, then for now

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-2.zip

is the official save.

GeneralHankerchief
08-07-2007, 02:43
I'll see what I can do.

DLing now.

TevashSzat
08-07-2007, 02:54
If that is the case, I'll post my battle report

GeneralHankerchief
08-07-2007, 02:57
Generalissimo Francisco Franco Sultan Moussa the Scarred is still dead.

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/KotR/kotr_140.jpg

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-3.zip

I'm happy because the causalty count got a bit better. :yes: Xdeath, post away.

Ignoramus
08-07-2007, 03:33
There's a witch in Northern Italy which we might want to be concerned about. Also, A large rebel Swiss army has appeared near Innsbruck.

Wolfgang is waiting until he reaches France before appearing in the Diet.

Privateerkev
08-07-2007, 03:42
Seeing as he might still be leading a revolution, he might still be banned from the Diet.

:laugh4:

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 04:11
There's a witch in Northern Italy which we might want to be concerned about. Also, A large rebel Swiss army has appeared near Innsbruck.

Wolfgang is waiting until he reaches France before appearing in the Diet.

I am aware of both situations, I'll probably have Athalwolf or Gerhard travel north to deal with the rebels, and as for the witch, I have to bring in some high power priests from outside Italy.

Edit: Thanks for sorting out the Temporal Divergence GH :2thumbsup: .

Ignoramus
08-07-2007, 04:11
I'm just worried about Wolfgang getting "accidently" sunk at sea.

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 04:17
This is the latest save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-3.zip

@Ignoramus:

As I'm aware myself, travel by sea is risky. However if Wolfgang runs into trouble, it will be accidental, no quotes or anything.

GeneralHankerchief
08-07-2007, 04:20
Yes, generally when we have a Crusader Chancellor no foul play is involved. :shifty:

Privateerkev
08-07-2007, 04:37
Though in Wolfgang's case, many would argue that its justified.

And this is directed at the character, not the player. I think it is only our respect and friendly feelings for the player himself that prevent us from doing something absolutely horrible to the avatar. :laugh4:

Ignoramus
08-07-2007, 04:41
Maybe the Sicilians would be happy to oblige by sinking my fleet. :thumbsdown:

Privateerkev
08-07-2007, 04:43
Well, as OK can attest to, sea travel is dangerous enough without worrying about anything shifty.

Tamur
08-07-2007, 04:55
Grabbed the save, will fight it and get it back up soon.

Hmm, I haven't done this in so long I've forgotten where to upload to. I'll poke around in the rules after I've finished and see if I can find the PBM uploader, but if anyone can point me in the right direction for that info I'd greatly appreciate it.

GeneralHankerchief
08-07-2007, 04:57
It can be accessed from two links in the stickies:

- How does one PBM? (second post)
- A filespace for PBM

Tamur
08-07-2007, 06:11
Meine Herren, a victory! Battle report coming tomorrow, pictures in about 24 hrs.

http://cicero.modwest.com/images/tw/kotr/results-1268-4.jpg

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-4.zip

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 06:44
Excellent Tamur.

The battles for 1268 are concluded. I will continue on with the save when I return home from work around 1200 GMT. Barring unforseen circumstances I will have the queue up for 1270 after that. Unless world peace breaks out in the game, which I seriously doubt.

Privateerkev
08-07-2007, 07:11
Unless world peace breaks out in the game, which I seriously doubt.

Medieval 2 Total Peace?

I knew I bought the wrong game... :furious3:

M2TP, I can see it now, spawning endless debates in the Citadel on whether it is better to turtle...or turtle.

Ituralde
08-07-2007, 12:32
I'm back! Just like the Mongols! :beam:

Privateerkev
08-07-2007, 14:07
I'm back! Just like the Mongols! :beam:

You mean you just exterminated the population of Baghdad?!?

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 14:27
Over the AI portion of the turn, we have two defensive battles.

First, FactionHeir, Hans was attacked by an Egyptian force, 1:1 odds it's made up of militia and siege equipment. Take the save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-5.zip

Fight the battle and let it run through until it reaches the next defensive battle, save and then post it.

Second, Cecil XIX, the Hungarians will attack Sigismund von Mahren's army. Take FH's uploaded save and fight the battle. Once you exit the battle, save as soon as possible and upload it, you can interrupt AI movement by using ESC to get the game menu. This way if I get a save before our turn begins, I get the all the pop ups.

gibsonsg91921
08-07-2007, 14:39
god, fritz sure made peter look bad...

AussieGiant
08-07-2007, 14:44
OK

How big and what quality is the attacking Hungarian force?

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 14:47
It's one big army and two smaller ones. Mix of dfks, knights, militia, HAs and crappy bowmen. The odds are 1:1.

AussieGiant
08-07-2007, 14:48
Thanks OK.

OverKnight
08-07-2007, 14:59
There's a small update in the Chancellor's report for 1268.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1630606&postcount=241

Tamur
08-07-2007, 16:35
god, fritz sure made peter look bad...

hehe, nothing quite as fun as using a nicely composed army of knights, spears and pavise crossbowmen against a whole pile of militia-level enemies. The battle line collision was very impressive to watch, but the first units routed in under a minute.

FactionHeir
08-07-2007, 18:57
Will take save in approx 9 hours from now.

FactionHeir
08-08-2007, 03:49
Well, I fought the battle and won a clear victory, but after reading the battle statistics screen, i accidentally pressed the check button instead of the back to stats button... so no screen.

I kind of remember the rough numbers though:
HRE: Fielded (554) Lost (83) Killed (721?) Captured (283)
Egypt: Fielded (1088) Lost (1032?) Killed (146) Captured (0)

Ransom was rejected.

Battle was actually quite tough with their arty parking on the slope and them having loads in the desert where HRE troops (especially late mounted) are weak. That compounded by arty crews having a better morale than the best knights (dismounted and mounted) available to anyone in the game and refusing to rout till the very end. Their infantry wasn't too bad though except when it surrounded my Feudals (I think I had 9 left at the end) but the 2H axes are great vs cav.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-6.zip

Cecil XIX
08-08-2007, 03:57
All right then, I've got the save. Should be done in the next few hours.

OverKnight
08-08-2007, 04:18
Thanks, FH and good luck Cecil XIX. The Egyptians came out of nowhere, I wasn't expecting a large force like that out in the desert.

AussieGiant
08-08-2007, 04:20
Get em Cecil!!

Arnold's watching with keen anticipation!!! :inquisitive:

AussieGiant
08-08-2007, 07:04
What's the name of the Sicilan captain OK?

OverKnight
08-08-2007, 07:06
I don't know, I'm at work and can't access the save.

AussieGiant
08-08-2007, 07:16
Ok no problem.

Cecil XIX
08-08-2007, 07:51
Battle completed, file uploaded. Though I must confess I forgot that the battle statistics only shows thirteen units for some damn reason. Ah well. The campaign has sure gotten interesting.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1268-7.zip

I seem to have gotten the image of a bunch of Teutonic knights dipping Bane's hand in warm water while he sleeps. Odd, that.

AussieGiant
08-08-2007, 08:00
What happened Cecil??

Are you going to post up a battle report?

Bane with his hand in a bowl of cold water is a funny visual.

Cecil XIX
08-08-2007, 08:05
I'm writing the battle report right now. I like to build some suspense, don'cha know. :2thumbsup:

AussieGiant
08-08-2007, 08:12
I'm writing the battle report right now. I like to build some suspense, don'cha know. :2thumbsup:


Yeah I know!! :)

I want to see what you did.

Small incident in Ragusa. You can check the Stories thread :juggle2:

OverKnight
08-08-2007, 08:42
Geez AG not everything can be solved by beheadings. :laugh4:

Still if Sicily declares war on us, I guess they've got a reason now.

Cecil XIX
08-08-2007, 08:49
Though I must say, I'm impressed the Arnold provided the family with compensation. Must be that 'fair in rule' trait at work.

AussieGiant
08-08-2007, 09:35
LOL,

Yeah it's tough being a series of contradicting traits sometimes.

I thought the money was a nice touch.

He's just trying to goad the Sicilian's into doing something stupid as usual.

It doesn't effect the in game stuff and it's a nice diversion to the ho hum of administration. I thought it was fairly much in character ;)

I'm aiming for the "most number of beheadings for a character in the Stories thread" award :yes:

Cecil XIX
08-08-2007, 11:16
The battle report is posted. I found it odd that the official count of men remaining did not include the prisoners who were spared. Presumably the Hungarian AI had not decided what to do with the prisoners yet. I still can't figure out why the Hungarians' combined kill count is four more than my 'men lost' count.

Ignoramus
08-08-2007, 11:26
Great battle write up, Cecil! That is one of the heaviest victories the Reich's ever had.

OverKnight
08-08-2007, 11:53
Good write up Cecil.

I will continue from the latest save when I get home. Expect a new queue around 1300 GMT.

OK

econ21
08-08-2007, 12:32
Good write up Cecil.

Yes, nice work! :2thumbsup:

The screenshots were a little large - when I use imageshack, I resize them to 800x600; it makes them align with the screen better (although maybe you have a very large screen).

Privateerkev
08-08-2007, 13:57
I seem to have gotten the image of a bunch of Teutonic knights dipping Bane's hand in warm water while he sleeps. Odd, that.

What I more had in mind involved a camel, a sleeping Bane, and a digital camera in order to upload blackmail photos to the internet. ^_^

Also, good job on the story AG and the battle report Cecil! Were the prisoners released along the same road that happens to be lined with thousands of heads on pikes? Something about the irony amuses me...

AussieGiant
08-08-2007, 14:08
Niiiice Cecil!!

Great work there.

Nice touch with the "first time" release orders. :balloon2:

Hate the fog. Don't like the fog at all.

OverKnight
08-08-2007, 15:42
Battle Queue 1270

An active year. First come first serve. Post when you take and post a link when you upload the new save. Remember I need casualty reports.

Edit: Check for the latest save.

Kaiser Siegfried - Completed

Mein Kaiser, the Danish Noble Ragnvald of Vestmanna has been foolish enough to trespass on our lands again. Teach him the error of his ways.

Count Fritz von Kastilien - Completed

You have broken out of a feeble Polish encirclement and attempted ambush south of the river and have returned close to Thorn. A large Polish force of professional soldiers lies outside the walls. Break them. You may use the garrison to assist, but take care with your brother.

Count Sigismund von Mahren - Completed

The Hungarians have taken advantage of your generous offer of parole and have blocked your path. In order for you to proceed to Bran, you must clear the two armies out of your way.

Count Lothar Steffen

You have landed on Sardinia, a large Milanese force lies outside Cagliari. If you attack them during the day, you can draw out the garrison, but the odds will be 2:3 against you. I will leave the choice up to you.

TinCow
08-08-2007, 15:47
I will not be able to play the battle until at least 7pm EST, so I will be farther down the queue.

Tamur
08-08-2007, 16:43
I'll be even later, again about 05 or 06.00 GMT.

Stuperman
08-08-2007, 18:23
OK, damn you and your quality Chancellorship!, there's so little to argue about!! (j/k:clown: )

Seriously though, nice job so far.

And TC good luck against the milanese, they have many, many knights.

OverKnight
08-08-2007, 19:19
Stuperman, there's always something to argue about in the Diet. It's the nature of any legislative body. Even now we have a bored Duke trying to instigate a war, Mongols careening toward us and endless battles around Thorn.

Thanks for the compliment, but you're seriously jinxing me. :beam:

Ferret
08-08-2007, 19:59
Im sorry if I'm posting this in completely the wrong place but I can't actually figure out how to join this PBM. If I have posted in the right place I would like to be the youngest spare general in the House of Franconia, thanks

GeneralHankerchief
08-08-2007, 20:06
Yes, you've found the right place, Bob_the_great. :yes: Welcome to the PBM! ~:wave:

Privateerkev
08-08-2007, 20:06
Hi BTG! :beam:

You posted in the right place. I am assuming you want Dieter Bresch who is currently in Antioch right now. I would just wait for econ to confirm your character because he is basically the closest equivalent that we have to a gamemaster. Once your in, I'll get you up to speed since my character would be your character's closest relative.

Meanwhile, just read up on threads to catch up and, if you can, download the latest savegame to see where we are. :yes:

Ferret
08-08-2007, 20:10
ok thanks guys :)

Tamur
08-08-2007, 20:16
Hello Bob, welcome! Another Franconian, wohoo!

Stig
08-08-2007, 20:20
Oooh, slowly we're running out of characters

welcome btw

econ21
08-08-2007, 20:21
Welcome, Bob the Great. If you want a young Franconian, you have a choice of Dieter Bresch or Helmut von Hamburg. Dieter is younger and more of a blank canvas, but Helmut has some very characterful traits that might be fun to roleplay. You should be able to inspect them in the library sticky or by downloading a savegame. Let me know which you prefer and I'll sign you up.

Stuperman
08-08-2007, 20:23
Hello Bob, welcome! Another Franconian, wohoo!

Oh great, just what we need.

:laugh4: :laugh4:

Seriously, welcome BTG, Looks like you get to be knighted against the Mongols, talk about baptism by fire.

Ferret
08-08-2007, 20:25
I'm dwnloadin a savegame now I'll let you know which man I prefer in a few minutes, Thanks again

Stig
08-08-2007, 20:31
Personally I would recommend Dieter, as he's younger and has some potential in the Outremer, Helmut is on a suicide mission into Russia. ~D
But Helmut does have some higher stats, but then, one battle against the Mongols and Dieter will have those as well.

Privateerkev
08-08-2007, 20:35
Of course there is now one new Franconian avatar but he is almost 60! o_O

Ferret
08-08-2007, 21:01
Sorry I'm taking so long the patch buggered up my computer, I'm trying it on my other computer now but I definately like the look of Dieter more.

Cecil XIX
08-08-2007, 21:14
All right, I'm taking the save. The AHA should be able to fight two or three battles this turn. :knight:

Ferret
08-08-2007, 21:44
Ok I'd like to have Dieter please. He seems very hard to bribe :)

StoneCold
08-08-2007, 21:59
hmm... isn't the present danish king put onto the throne by our assassination of the previous king at his request???

Privateerkev
08-08-2007, 22:05
Yup!

He doesn't seem very grateful... :no:

Tamur
08-08-2007, 22:07
The only reference I could find was here, (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1551606&postcount=149) (in 1210) and it appears that appeal was turned down. But, being new myself, it seems I missed something!

Privateerkev
08-08-2007, 22:13
The only reference I could find was here, (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1551606&postcount=149) (in 1210) and it appears that appeal was turned down. But, being new myself, it seems I missed something!


Here is the link to the chancellor report: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1626536&postcount=237

econ21
08-08-2007, 23:13
Ok I'd like to have Dieter please. He seems very hard to bribe :)

OK, I've signed you up. Feel free to contribute in the Diet and the Franconian House threads. Also, don't be afraid to lobby (PM) the Chancellor (and the King of Outremer) to make sure your avatar sees some action.

One thing you might want to consider is using Dieter's picture as your Org avatar and his name as your title - it makes in character exchanges easier.

Cecil XIX
08-08-2007, 23:17
Boy, this is irritating. I've spent the last two hours trying to figure out a way for Sigismund to not automatically get points in 'battledread'. I should be able to get the two battles finished before nine, though.

Privateerkev
08-08-2007, 23:21
Yeah, the first level is way too easy to get. Jan already got it and I've only fought one battle with him ever. :/

TinCow
08-08-2007, 23:39
I had a similar problem with Lothar: StrategyChivalry. Since my first battle was retaking Budapest and Lothar was buddy-buddy with Arnold, there really wasn't any way for me to justify IC doing anything other than Occupying the city, thus setting me on the road down chivalry. I've exterminated Ajaccio and I'll do it again to Cagliari, but I'm too far gone now on StrategyChivalry to make it up. For RP purposes, I'm just ignoring the trait.

Privateerkev
08-08-2007, 23:47
Yeah but complex characters can be fun. I've had no problem working in "winning first" into my otherwise goody-two-shoes character. ^^

TinCow
08-08-2007, 23:59
I've found it's easiest to pick several of the rarer traits and concentrate on those for RPing. Later traits can add on to and change a character, but the game doesn't know what happens in the Diet and thus you can find traits popping up that are totally inconsistent with your character. Personally, I find it more fun to control the fate of my characters, rather than just mimic what the game throws at them.

For Mandorf, he started with 'Severe' so I made him a bit of an unforgiving, intolerant bastard. He then picked up religious and a unique retinue member, so I made him have a religious awakening. The rest I just kind of ignored, and built off the 'basics' that the game gave me.

For Lothar, his rarer starting traits were "Deep Pockets" and "Born Conquerer" so I started him off as a cocky and pretentious SOB who has a bit of distain for the rules. He also had "Chivalrous Father" and a mentor and a tutor, so I made him feel like a sulking, spoiled kid who felt over-schooled and under-experienced. Since then, though, the only things that have caught my fancy are the Hexxed and Dauntless traits. I'll sprinkly a bit of them in now and then, but I focus mainly on the RP events my character has experienced, not his "Admires Technology" and "Religious", etc.

Not that my way is 'correct', it's just more fun for me.

Privateerkev
08-09-2007, 00:08
I don't think there is a "correct" way. Like all RP games, you got to go with what works for you. I try a blend of "making my character the way I want him to be" and "letting the character tell me who he is". So, while going on Crusade was partly to give my character the traits I wanted him to have, I accept that he is "too comfortable" and "a bit rough" and will try to RP those. I figure, as long as we have fun, there really is no "wrong" way to RP. Though, your traits do help others figure out how to interact with you if they have not had lots of interaction with your character.

Cecil XIX
08-09-2007, 01:44
Well, I've uploaded the save.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1270-1.zip

By the grace of God, Sigismund is a fair fighter. Not sure how though as I can't find the trigger in the file. KOTRFix is still on 1.26, right?

AussieGiant
08-09-2007, 02:06
Cecil,

Are you still letting them go after the fight?

You're going to have a hard time taking Bran if you continue being such a nice guy:laugh4:

TinCow
08-09-2007, 02:25
I'm taking the save now.

AussieGiant
08-09-2007, 02:28
Go TC!!

Big fight now buddy!!

Lots of bad guy's.

AussieGiant
08-09-2007, 02:46
And another good Battle report from Tamur.

It's really getting good in there.

TinCow
08-09-2007, 02:58
Cancel that. I've got some kind of problem with my DVD player and it's not detecting the DVD. Someone else take the save and hopefully I can fix it tomorrow.

FactionHeir
08-09-2007, 03:28
The thing why BattleDread is easier to gain than BattleChivalry is because that trigger comes first in the file. Both check for the same conditions too (killed more than 8 in battle). Usually not a bad thing as dread is more desired than chiv in terms of gameplay.
As soon as you pass those first set of triggers, you get several checks for BattleChiv, which kind of evens the odds by allowing your character to pick it up at all. After that set, dread is checked again.

Fix is still on 1.26, I didn't plan on releasing a 1.27 till the next game patch, but if there is demand, I can give out a 1.26a version (two very minor fixes - is it worth your time? :grin: )

Cecil XIX
08-09-2007, 04:58
As far as Sigismund goes AussieGiant, he'll be regarded as either a genius or a fool when this is all over.

And if KOTRfix just needs two minor fixes then FactionHeir could post them here and tell us where to paste them, right? I'm all for that.

Tamur
08-09-2007, 05:06
I'm taking the 1270-1 save, will fight and upload in the next hour or so.

AussieGiant
08-09-2007, 05:32
As far as Sigismund goes AussieGiant, he'll be regarded as either a genius or a fool when this is all over.



What do you mean Cecil?

I think you did a good job against so many mad Magyars in the fog :)

They are normally high fatality battles for me also.

How many units are in Bran?

Tamur
08-09-2007, 06:45
I hate Polish Nobles.

A victory, but costlier than most. Next time I'm bringing along the ACME Proto-Jinette Squisher.

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1270-2.zip

Ituralde
08-09-2007, 12:01
Guess it's my turn then!

TinCow
08-09-2007, 12:07
Fixed my DVD drive. I had pulled it out last weekend to do work on another computer and I forgot to set the jumper back to master. :wall: :oops: I'll definitely play the battle after work today.

Ituralde
08-09-2007, 12:14
Battle fought and won!

Odds were 10:4 and the prisoners were released.

And here's the save: kotr1270-3 (http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1270-3.zip)

AussieGiant
08-09-2007, 13:36
You know OK I'm still bagging serving wenches Mondays, Wendesdays and Fridays. Every other night it's wives of foreign diplomats. :beam:

Arnold's got some private legislation to consumate :laugh4:

OverKnight
08-09-2007, 14:49
Matthias is a Chancellor, not a matchmaker. Keep your codpiece on!

I've only recieved one marriage offer, and that was for Heidwigis, Dietrich's daughter.

Unless a princess comes of age, there's nothing else I can do.

TinCow
08-09-2007, 14:58
Yeah, the legislation is nice IC, but we can't do anything about it OOC. There is absolutely no chance of a princess spawning anytime soon, since AFAIK the Emperor and the Prince aren't even married yet! If Jobst had lived a couple extra years, Meinburg would have come of age as a princess, but since he died before that time I believe she's just a normal unmarried noblewoman.

Privateerkev
08-09-2007, 15:06
The only other thing I could think of is to move the Arnold avatar close to a foreign princess. Its a gamble but there is a chance that she will propose to him but he will convince her to abandon her house. Its a balancing act with the charm. If she has too little charm, she will come over but she will be ugly and there will be few kids. If she has too much charm, Arnold might leave the HRE and join her faction. Maybe FH knows what the triggers are for a princess coming over and for a general leaving. If we can find the sweet spot in charm, we can get a good princess without losing the Arnold avatar.

TinCow
08-09-2007, 15:09
I don't think that actually results in a marriage. A Hungarian princess 'defected' to HRE when she tried to woo either Lothar or Markus Steffen (they were in the same stack) but neither of the men got married as a result. I think it just removes the princess from the game.

OverKnight
08-09-2007, 15:16
I've played games where foreign princesses have failed to "turn" my generals and married into my royal family instead, so it does happen. It's a tricky dynamic and hard to manipulate though.

AussieGiant
08-09-2007, 15:18
I'm just yanking OK's chain honestly.

But could you imagine Arnold running off with some broad from another Empire.

Hell that would be a dramatic end.

I'm getting bored and being a bit needy with the 'old Chancellor'.

It seems to be working:laugh4:

It's Thursday night, cod piece off, helmet on....and that would mean the Sicilian ambassadors wife!!!

CHARGE!!!!

Privateerkev
08-09-2007, 15:27
I know AG.

I'm just trying to figure out how we could actually do it. I know in my SP games I have ended up with married generals after a foreign princess fails at trying to woo them.


You know OK I'm still bagging serving wenches Mondays, Wendesdays and Fridays. Every other night it's wives of foreign diplomats.

Are you saying that Arnold is looking for love in a bar? :no:

Does Arnold need advice from Jan the love doctor? :laugh4:

OverKnight
08-09-2007, 15:50
Cackling maniacally, the Chancellor begins to make plans to send a few generals on one fleet pirate hunting missions.

Privateerkev
08-09-2007, 15:53
Cackling maniacally, the Chancellor begins to make plans to send a few generals on one fleet pirate hunting missions.

o_O

Uh oh, what did I say?


:hide:

Stuperman
08-09-2007, 18:22
I imagine that he is talking about the older besically useless generals that are unassigned.

Privateerkev
08-09-2007, 18:26
Yeah, I was joking. The thing is there is only one old unassigned useless avatar and we just got him. Hopefully he will pop out a kid like Jens did at least.

he was using the plural form so i assumed he was joking about sending many of us to our pirate fighting doom. ^^

Tamur
08-09-2007, 18:27
Cackling maniacally, the Chancellor begins to make plans to send a few generals on one fleet pirate hunting missions.

Why didn't this occur to the Senate in about 50 BC? It would have saved all sorts of problems!

OverKnight
08-09-2007, 21:27
Geez guys, it was just my own joke about sending the people plaguing me with bad jokes to a watery grave.

No one really supported the "culling" of unused avatars so I won't do it. Just let nature, and bribes, take their course.