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econ21
08-17-2007, 15:34
This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.

The list of players and description of their avatars is maintained in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1



*************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

Game settings

*MT2TW with the 1.2 patch
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

Charter Amendment 6.2: Medifix will no longer be used and in its stead, FactionHeir's trait and ancillary fixes will be implemented. He will also take full responsibility of any issues regarding these files, however unlikely these may be after extensive testing.

The only mod we will use is the trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix127.zip

The readme is in the spoiler tags.


KOTRfixREADME.txt
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START OF README
-
Version 1.27 (12-08-2007)


This package contains 2 folders and 8 files, one of which is the readme you are currently reading.
I have included folders as this will make it easier for you to figure where a file is to go and prevent errors.
As you can see, one folder is named "data" and another one inside this data folder is labelled "text"
To install the fixes, simply extract/move the data folder directly from the package into your root medieval directory.
This means that after doing so, you should find following files in your medieval/data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt
export_descr_buildings.txt (OPTIONAL - PBM)
descr_campaign_db.xml (OPTIONAL - PBM)

And a folder in your data folder named "text"
Inside that folder, you should find:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


You do not need to extract the readme, as this is purely informational for this installation only.

In short (for the impatient and to quick check):

-Extract data folder directly into medieval game directory.

-Make sure your medieval directory now has a data folder (already present before extracting) and a text folder within (usually not present before)

-Make sure the following files are found inside the data folder:
export_descr_character_traits.txt
export_descr_ancillaries.txt
export_descr_vnvs_enums.txt
export_descr_buildings.txt (OPTIONAL - PBM)
descr_campaign_db.xml (OPTIONAL - PBM)

-Make sure the following files are found inside the text folder:
export_ancillaries.txt.string.bin
export_VnVs.txt.strings.bin


Now to apply those fixes, you will need to run your medieval game exe using a shortcut or a bat file.
The target of said file should read similar to this:

D:\Medieval\medieval2.exe --io.file_first

Where "D:\Medieval\" varies depending on your installation but medieval2.exe --io.file_first should be constant.

If you encounter any issues with my fixes, please let me know via any means you feel necessary and I will investigate.
As per current version, there are no errors showing up in the medieval error log that are from these fixes.

Also note that those fixes work retroactively in any savegame and at the same time also allow a savegame to continue working without the fixes installed.
As such, it is perfectly safe to use and will not necessitate its continued usage once a game is started.
However as per Charter Amendment 6.2 for the KOTR PBM, this fix is to be used by the chancellor currently running the game.

I hope you enjoy the fixes and if you have problems or suggestions, please let me know.

FactionHeir

-
END OF README
-



At a later stage, we may use a mod to give the Forlorn Hope 2 hitpoints.

Charter Amendment CAE1.1: econ21 will be authorised to give AI factions extra florins; for example, by gifting them a lump sum every 10 turns or so.

To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol.

The console command to give 10000 florins to Hungary is:

add_money hungary, 10000

The list of major factions is:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary

The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.

Probably the best practice is to top up factions with less than 50k, at a rate of perhaps 10k per turn.



Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]

Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:
In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.

1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.

OOC Charter Amendment:
(a) Where there are multiple player controlled generals in a stack, then the player who plays out the battle is determined by who the computer designates is in command.
(b) An exception is that Household Armies (and the Army of Outremer) are always commanded by the designated Commander of said army.
(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 1: Amend 1.4 by adding: If no build queue is posted for a settlement, the Chancellor can build what he likes. The Chancellor may upgrade a settlement at any time (ie upgrade the walls regardless of a build queue), unless such an upgrade is forbidden in advance by the governor.

1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.

1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.

1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

Charter Amendment E2.1:
(a) If an Edict to impeach the Chancellor is passed with a 2/3 majority, he is removed from office immediately.
(b) After impeachment, a fresh election is held to elect a new Chancellor, although a Kaiser may also exercise his perogative to be Chancellor at that point.
(c) The Chancellor replacing an impeached Chancellor serves out the remainder of the impeached Chancellor's term.
(d) All edicts passed in the Diet that elected the impeached Chancellor remain valid, unless overturned by new Edicts at the Emergency Session that impeached him.
(e) An impeached chancellor is not granted the additional bonus to influence that an ex-chancellor would normally be given.

Charter Amendment 11.5: All cities must have their maximum amount of free upkeep militia within their walls all times, except when the militia is used to fight armies observed to be within the boundaries of their province.


3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose THREE House edicts per Diet provided that they have previously securing the backing of two other members of their House.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

Charter Amendment 10.2:
(a) No settlement will be captured without an Edict authorising its acquisition in advance.
(b) Captured settlements will be abandoned or given away unless, at the next Diet session, a Charter Amendment incorporates them formally as part of the Reich.
(c) The 33 existing provinces of the Reich are exempt from (a) and (b).
(d) This amendment overrides the constitutional right of Household Armies to conquer one neighbouring province.
Proposed: Kaiser Henry
Seconded: Conrad Salier, Ansehelm von Kastilien

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.
Charter Amendment 8.2: In addition to the Kaiser, an Emergency Session of the Diet may be called by the Prinz, or if three of the four House leaders (Dukes or Stewards) agree to do so.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +6 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 4 points):
Duke: +3
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 2: Amend 4.7 by adding: If a Duke resigns, the Kaiser appoints a successor.

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.
Charter Amendment 11.7: The section of the Charter which currently reads "5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes" will be changed to the following: 5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes. However, if a rules dispute directly involves the Emperor, the four Dukes of the Realm (or their appointed deputies) will gather to assist the Emperor in clarifying the dispute. A simple vote among the Dukes would decide the dispute, with the Emperor having the tie-breaking vote.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

Charter Amendment 11.2:The Prince is appointed by the Emperor upon his ascension to the throne. Should a Prince die a new heir has to be appointed immediately.[/i]

Charter Amendment 11.1: Whenever a large dispute arises over the legitamacy of one's succesion to a position of high power (Kaiser, King of Outremer, or Dukedom), a council shall be set forth to discuss the events and vote on who shal succede. Should the position of Kaiser be questioned, the four Dukes and the King of Outremer shall decide who is to become Kaiser. Should a Dukedom or the King of Outremer be under dispute, those not directly involved in the dispute shall be part of the council. In order for the council to be formed, at least one quarter of the voting power in the Reich is needed to for the council to be formed. Regarding the dukes, half of the voting period within the house is needed as the same with the King of Outremer which requires half of the crusader's votes.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose not to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

Charter Amendment 9.1:

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward). The King of Outremer may propose up to 3 personal Edicts during each Diet session, but 2 must specifically deal with Outremer affairs. (Stricken portion overridden by Kaiser due to conflict with CA11.3.

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.1, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The King will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain +1 influence, but only if they are not already a Count in their Duchy, and only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 6 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

Charter Amendment 11.3: The King of Outremer is allowed to propose three Edicts (or Charter Amendments) per Diet Session. Prior to being tabled in the Diet, these must be seconded by two Crusader Counts in the Council of Crusaders.

Charter Amendment 11.6: The position of King of Outremer is appointed by the emperor. This appointment lasts for the duration of the emperors reign or the Kings lifetime, whichever is shorter. The King of Outremer is permitted to resign, if the emperor is willing to accept the resignation, upon which a new King is appointed by the emperor. If the King of Outremer is deemed incapable of the assignment, he may be impeached by the emperor and 2 Dukes.

8. Historical armies

Only historical armies can fight battles (ahistorical stacks can be used for transport).

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Revised maxima for each unit type by number of units in stack

3^Type|1-5|6-10|11-15|16+
7^Generals|2|2|2|2
7^Knights|2|4|6|8
7^Cavalry|2|4|6|8
7^Missile inf|2|3|4|6
7^Elite inf|2|3|4|6
7^Other foot|Any|Any|Any|Any
7^Artillery|1|2|3|4


Crusades are exempt from restrictions on the number of generals.

Unit type definitions:
- Knights: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights or equivalent heavy cavalry.
- Cavalry: Any mounted knights plus non-knightly cavalry (Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants, Turcomans etc)
-Foot missiles: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners etc
-Elite infantry: Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass
-Other foot: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

FactionHeir
08-17-2007, 15:36
Ack, you closed the thread just when I finished my edit, so it didn't appear :gah2:

What I wanted to say was that when you deploy only 136 effective troops and of those you lose 37, then that's already approximately 25% loss of cavalry.
The fact that all my cav had an effective +6 attack and was highly experienced mattered quite a bit against running down militia.

econ21
08-17-2007, 16:45
Sorry, Factionheir. When a thread gets to 20 pages, it is living on borrowed time. I've found I can live with a wide variety of different cav vs infantry balancing (and history can be read to support a wide variety too). Against the AI, even nerfed cav can be devastating if used right. I suspect Hans handled his few but strong cav very well, as usual.

Stuperman: Edict 11.8 does authorise you to march on Naples.

Tincow: from the save, the recruitable general is being hired in Rome this term. Warmaster Horus has gone rather quiet. Hopefully he will return when his avatar is spawned.

FactionHeir
08-17-2007, 16:52
In Rome? Then I assume OK added the code line to another building too then locally.

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 16:56
Since installing the mod, I was able to recruit them in any city with a huge wall. Are others getting something different?

*edit*

Nevermind, I just realized that FH said that because Rome probably doesn't have a Huge Wall.

Warmaster Horus
08-17-2007, 17:05
Don't worry, I'm still here. I keep checking daily to see what happens, and then I rush back to M2 to fight the French...

FactionHeir
08-17-2007, 17:13
Since installing the mod, I was able to recruit them in any city with a huge wall. Are others getting something different?

*edit*

Nevermind, I just realized that FH said that because Rome probably doesn't have a Huge Wall.

Well, actually I was referring to OK saying how the game showed the BG as recruitable but they couldn't actually be recruited and then me testing using process_cq that buildings built after the implementation of the file would allow recruitment proper.
TBH I didn't check whether it would apply to all buildings after turn end as I was admittedly too lazy to load my current campaign autosave to save it in a separate file and then end turn for KOTR. So I suppose it auto applied to all settlements on EndTurn, which is great :grin:

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 17:18
Yeah, like I said, I had zero problem recruiting generals all over the map as long as a city had huge walls. So, if there was a problem, it seems solved. :2thumbsup:

FactionHeir
08-17-2007, 17:21
Always good to know.

Back to KOTR proper though, I think Siegfried will be chancellor next? Or will there actually be a run?
My guesses who will stand so far would be Elberhard, Arnold and Lothar. That's quite random guesses though and without any back up information.
I'll not run for a while to observe a changing political climate. Probably I'll do a run after Hans is 50 or so. Be afraid. Be very afraid.... :wink:

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 17:27
I'm certainly always up for idle political speculation. :beam:

The Kaiser could certainly enact his Chancellor rights but I do not know if Ituralde will be back in time.

I'd personally like to know if Matthias wants another run at it since he has done very well. Ebelhard would be good too. These are just my thoughts IC as I am sure anyone with enough free time would be great OOC. IC, the idea of Lothar or Arnold as Chancellor would keep Jan up at night... o_O

I can see it now...

Jan: "um...why am I leading a scouting party into the Mongol army by myself?"

GeneralHankerchief
08-17-2007, 17:28
I thought AG (Arnold) didn't have access to his (gaming) computer though.

And let's try to make this thread last a little longer than about half a Chancellor's reign.

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 17:30
And let's try to make this thread last a little longer than about half a Chancellor's reign.

This coming from the guy who posted Queen lyrics and Princess Bride quotes...

;)

FactionHeir
08-17-2007, 17:33
Interesting member title GH.

I doubt that the OOC thread will last too long btw. We always find something to banter on about and seeing that this is a nice little off-topic thread per se... maybe we do need a tavern eh? But then discussions would be kind of split between OOC and tavern and you'd be linking back and forth er or posting in both for the same purpose. Or OOC thread will end up as quiet as the diet as everything else shifts to the tavern :tongue:

True about AG. Forgot about that. So that leaves Elberhard and Lothar.
Hans certainly wouldn't vote Matthias again after all that happened. He'd probably be more likely to vote for radical Lothar instead. He prefers a chancellor that actually does what is necessary and expediently - like himself.

Btw, isn't is funny how ever since the end of Hans' reign, all chancellors have slowed down his progress and disobeyed every request or even mislead him to belief that they did what he asked? He must somehow made a lot of enemies as chancellor or so.

[edit]

Another way of increasing OOC life expectancy is to just edit your first OOC post in a topic with timestamp. Becomes a pain to read though.

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 17:38
Interesting member title GH.

I doubt that the OOC thread will last too long btw. We always find something to banter on about and seeing that this is a nice little off-topic thread per se... maybe we do need a tavern eh? But then discussions would be kind of split between OOC and tavern and you'd be linking back and forth er or posting in both for the same purpose. Or OOC thread will end up as quiet as the diet as everything else shifts to the tavern :tongue:

True about AG. Forgot about that. So that leaves Elberhard and Lothar.
Hans certainly wouldn't vote Matthias again after all that happened. He'd probably be more likely to vote for radical Lothar instead. He prefers a chancellor that actually does what is necessary and expediently - like himself.

Btw, isn't is funny how ever since the end of Hans' reign, all chancellors have slowed down his progress and disobeyed every request or even mislead him to belief that they did what he asked? He must somehow made a lot of enemies as chancellor or so.

[edit]

Another way of increasing OOC life expectancy is to just edit your first OOC post in a topic with timestamp. Becomes a pain to read though.

I am all for adding one or even two more threads. An IC tavern thread would allow us to interact IC in ways that we feel we can't in the stuffy Diet. And an OOC "fun" thread would allow us to maintain a sense of community without burying important OOC posts like "save announcements" and "rulings". I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on this. To me, part of the fun is interacting with everyone OOC on here.

As for Hans, maybe what has happened to him is because he seems to have an enormous sense of entitlement. :beam:

FactionHeir
08-17-2007, 17:44
Whadya expect from the first born son of the emperor :grin2:
Actually I've been playing him somewhat more dreadful in recent times rather than chivalrous. I mean he's a merciless mauler already and I think one more battle or so and he'll be a field tyrant (and a few more to the Lord of Terror epithet!)

Anyway. Without taking too much into the OOC thread, I think its been during two chancellorships now that an action was approved by Salier but the chancellor refused to act accordingly. Or maybe Salier told them the opposite of what he actually told Hans? :drama1:

econ21
08-17-2007, 17:46
I don't see a problem with getting through OOC threads quickly - if anything, it shows the PBM is still keeping people's attention, which is nice after what is it - 7 months now?

On the IC tavern idea - anyone is welcome to start a thread. The worst that can happen is that it gets neglected and dies. The Diet seems a pretty raucous place though, so I am not convinced a tavern is necessary.

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 17:48
Whadya expect from the first born son of the emperor :grin2:
Actually I've been playing him somewhat more dreadful in recent times rather than chivalrous. I mean he's a merciless mauler already and I think one more battle or so and he'll be a field tyrant (and a few more to the Lord of Terror epithet!)

Anyway. Without taking too much into the OOC thread, I think its been during two chancellorships now that an action was approved by Salier but the chancellor refused to act accordingly. Or maybe Salier told them the opposite of what he actually told Hans? :drama:

I would expect nothing less from the first born son of the emperor. But, it may explain why those in power do not seem to let Hans get away with everything he wants. Hans has blood right but not much else with regards to raw political power. And because we still bow to the game's strange faction heir whims, blood right only means something IC if people want it to mean something. Since it has no effect on the game mechanics, blood right is an easy thing to ignore. :beam:

*edited to include a response to econ*

If we did start a thread, could you do it? That way, it can be edited if the thread starter quits. Also, I'd like to see if others are keen with the idea before I started one. I wouldn't want it to just plunge to the bottom of the throne room due to inactivity.

As for the Diet being raucous, I think thats because people are itching to express themselves more. But, the Diet has limits. Like how the Kaiser can ban people. What I am conceiving of will have no limits as to what can be said, though of course there could be political consequences. But, like the story thread, you must get permission if your interaction puts someone in an unfavorable light.

econ21
08-17-2007, 18:04
Don't worry, I'm still here. I keep checking daily to see what happens, and then I rush back to M2 to fight the French...

Good to hear it. Factionheir just reminded me to put you as an Elector of Bavaria in the playlist, so you can freely post in character now. Your avatar should take physical form by the time of the next Diet (which is next turn? gosh, it's crept up on us).

Privateerkev: good point about the tavern and banning. Perhaps people who want a tavern should post here - if there are, say, six or more, it should be viable. I am happy to start a thread if requested, but as a mod, I can also edit a first post anyone else makes should they quit.

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 18:12
Privateerkev: good point about the tavern and banning. Perhaps people who want a tavern should post here - if there are, say, six or more, it should be viable. I am happy to start a thread if requested, but as a mod, I can also edit a first post anyone else makes should they quit.

Well, I am definitely one. Hans seems like a maybe. Thats a good point about your mod powers. Alright, with your permission, I will start a tavern thread once five more people state on here clearly that they endorse the idea. Also, any ideas or thoughts on the issue would be much appreciated. It should provide for an increased sense of IC community so it is essential that it be a group effort. Otherwise it is not doing its job and will float down to the nether regions of the throne room. :beam:

FactionHeir
08-17-2007, 18:19
:deal:

Stuperman
08-17-2007, 18:54
As long as were on the topic of recruiting avatars for bavaria, Gerhard will be 58 this Diet session, I doubt he'll live to see the next one. I'd like to stay in Bavaria, so I dunno, I hope that Kordula gets hitched soon.

And from what I've seen, the Diet is a pretty rough place (death threats, near duels, overturned furniture), I'd hate to see what goes on in the tavern

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 19:00
Cool, thats two!

As for rules for the new tavern thread, here is what I have so far;

1.) The thread will be for IC interaction for all players of the KotR PBM from generic elector to Kaiser (though he might not want to "dirty" himself by slumming with the common folk). Its basically in Rome, or wherever the Imperial capital may be, so its a place to unwind before or after a day's work in the Diet.

2.) You can not be banned. Though do not be surprised if what you say has political consequences. This should foster a more relaxed atmosphere than the Diet.

3.) Any interaction between characters that puts one in a negative light must have the consent of all involved. Same rule that is in the story thread.

4.) No "official" business. While it is ok to discuss edicts, house politics, and elections, this is not the thread for any "official" announcements. Anything to do with official presenting and seconding of edicts still has to be done in the Diet. Same with official announcements with regards to political assignments such as counts. Anything "official" that is stated in the tavern thread is to be regarded as a rumor and not given weight.

5.) The tavern is a big place so regardless of what "destruction" is wrought upon the place, such as bar fights and the like, you can assume that you can still do what you came to do.

6.) All general .org rules regarding posting still apply. Watch the language. While it can be assumed that your character and the bar maid are not upstairs chatting over tea, we do not need a description that would be more apt for the Penthouse Forum.

Stuperman
08-17-2007, 19:08
5.) The tavern is a big place so regardless of what "destruction" is wrought upon the place, such as bar fights and the like, you can assume that you can still do what you came to do.

6.) All general .org rules regarding posting still apply. Watch the language. While it can be assumed that your character and the bar maid are not upstairs chatting over tea, we do not need a description that would be more apt for the Penthouse Forum.


LOL, I vote for the tavern just because of these 2 rules

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 19:17
LOL, I vote for the tavern just because of these 2 rules

woot! :2thumbsup:

Up to three! FH confirmed through PM that his deal emoticon was a "yes" vote.

OverKnight
08-17-2007, 20:36
About the changes to make generals recruitable. . .

In 1276, this appeared in all cities with Huge walls.

https://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb88/douglaslain/recruitgen.jpg

The next year I could recruit. Since Florence is still working on it's huge walls, I decided to recruit a general in Rome. They're not cheap.

Warmaster Horus should have an avatar for 1280. I did it as quickly as I could.

GeneralHankerchief
08-17-2007, 20:52
Wait, when did Jens become "Jens the Honourable"?

*grumbles*

Guess I'm gonna have to find a way to RP around that one.

Stuperman
08-17-2007, 21:07
WOOT WOOT 'The Honourable' suffex FTW!!!



I'm a little bored at work today......

Privateerkev
08-17-2007, 21:12
Wait, when did Jens become "Jens the Honourable"?

*grumbles*

Guess I'm gonna have to find a way to RP around that one.

Looks like your gonna be a "different" kind of Hummel!

:laugh4:

Warmaster Horus
08-17-2007, 21:20
The next year I could recruit. Since Florence is still working on it's huge walls, I decided to recruit a general in Rome. They're not cheap.

Warmaster Horus should have an avatar for 1280. I did it as quickly as I could.

Thanks!

Stuperman
08-17-2007, 21:31
@GH,

Maybe it's an ironic name given to him by his detractors?

OverKnight
08-17-2007, 21:43
I've been using Jens as a governor since he was unclaimed, I think he maxed out the noble in rule line.

Stuperman
08-17-2007, 21:57
I've got the save, fighting

Stuperman
08-17-2007, 22:47
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1278-2.zip

Fought both sets of Sicilians and moved as close to Naples as I could. Ransomed prisoners 1st time, accepted, second was all pavice xbow, so I executed cause I didn't want to fight them at the walls.

econ21
08-17-2007, 23:48
Up to three! FH confirmed through PM that his deal emoticon was a "yes" vote.

OK, make that four. A tavern is the kind of place Elberhard would hang out.

Especially with his new wife...:scared:

OverKnight
08-18-2007, 00:03
As I have stated many, many times, Matthias is a Chancellor not a matchmaker.

Perhaps the Princesses brought into the royal family are not ideal, but I didn't have a lot of candidates to choose from. When recruited, they both had four hearts, so I was kind of surprised that they turned out to be unpleasant.

Welcome to the world of arranged Political marriages. :juggle2:

econ21
08-18-2007, 00:10
Overknight - OOC, just to clarify - I am delighted that Elberhard is married. It was a most pleasant surprise. And IC, Elberhard was moaning about it in a story just before he got hitched, so he can't complain too loudly. His wife, on the other hand, .... :laugh4:

OverKnight
08-18-2007, 00:13
Ah, yes. . .I have some small experience with a wretched wife. Be creative. :laugh4:

Edit: To tell the truth, I consider the two marriage alliances the best accomplishment of my term. We hadn't done them in the PBM so far and any political gains made with our reputation is tricky.

It wasn't until my AAR that I truly realized the utility and mechanics of a marriage alliance, which is why I pursued them.

Privateerkev
08-18-2007, 00:28
OK, make that four. A tavern is the kind of place Elberhard would hang out.

Especially with his new wife...:scared:

I'm not sure that the tavern would be quite the place for your wife... :laugh4:

Just kidding, I know your talking about getting away from her, not bringing her with. Its just easy to read it either way. Maybe I should use that as a selling point?

"The Tavern, you can't find love but you can escape from your arranged marriage!"

I figure I'll get to six later when more people log on. I can see AG leaping at it because he's been looking for more ways to RP as a dread duke. Heck, he's almost turned the Diet into a tavern.

*edit*

I think at the next Diet, we should each push forward personal legislation that demands that each character gets married just so we can see the next Chancellor break down and cry. :laugh4:

econ21
08-18-2007, 00:30
Edit: To tell the truth, I consider the two marriage alliances the best accomplishment of my term.

I was thinking the same. Your two terms have been an education to me in M2TW diplomacy (your previous term saw some very nifty work with the Papacy IIRC).

AussieGiant
08-18-2007, 02:44
OK's work in both terms have been nigh on incredible to me and I've told him that.

A TAVERN!!??

DID someone say a Tavern!!??

Good Lord, the Dread Duke and his thugs would never want such an environment to work in...WOOT!! :idea2:

PK, you got my vote BOY!!??

Tamur
08-18-2007, 04:05
Taking the save, will post back in an hour or so.

FactionHeir
08-18-2007, 04:12
Meh, with Arnold around, his wife might pick up UnchasteWoman (and Elberhard possibly might get another epithet) :wink:

AussieGiant
08-18-2007, 04:18
Meh, with Arnold around, his wife might pick up UnchasteWoman (and Elberhard possibly might get another epithet) :wink:


Actually that's not a bad idea FH. I could hit on Elberhard's wife in the tavern...I'm sure we would have some fireworks there.


Actually Arnold never do that. He's actually very loyal. Hence his views on the Kaiser succession problem. He didn't care who was Kaiser, only that we need a clear decision and that decision had to be VERY clear to everyone.

FactionHeir
08-18-2007, 04:23
Well, considering Arnold would be disgruntled over being passed over twice for a wife, he could see Elberhard's as his for the time being. Dread and all. The priest might not like it, but his two "friends" wouldn't mind.

Privateerkev
08-18-2007, 04:53
OK's work in both terms have been nigh on incredible to me and I've told him that.

A TAVERN!!??

DID someone say a Tavern!!??

Good Lord, the Dread Duke and his thugs would never want such an environment to work in...WOOT!! :idea2:

PK, you got my vote BOY!!??


:laugh4:

Something told me you'd jump at that one. I told you a while ago that you needed more outlets for Arnold's dreadness. And I am pretty sure econ didn't mean Ebelhard was bringing his wife to a tavern. She is English royalty. But it would be amusing to see how she would take to scenes of Grom dragging unconscious people upstairs for things we best not mention. ^_^

Alright, we're at five. Who wants to push us over the top?

Cecil XIX
08-18-2007, 05:19
That'll be me, though I imagine I'll get more use as a reader than a participant. Should be fun.

Privateerkev
08-18-2007, 05:23
That'll be me, though I imagine I'll get more use as a reader than a participant. Should be fun.

:beam:

Houston, we have lift off. Time to go and build the dread duke's playpen!

*runs off giddy as a school boy*

Tamur
08-18-2007, 06:24
Battle fought (and won). I got the initial odds screenie, but somehow I didn't get the final results. Augh!

At any rate, it was a tough one, lost abt. 350 men, they lost 800 or so. My spears took the brunt of it. The difference was three good cavalry charges, and the Captain going down at the same time their left flank caved in.

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1278-3.zip

Tamur
08-18-2007, 06:32
Ha, I can tell this tavern is going to get one heck of a workout. Great idea PK. I'd send Fritz in right now but his worse half is eye-weary and headed to sleep. Looking forward to wandering in sometime soon.

FactionHeir
08-18-2007, 06:33
I'll start posting in the tavern during the diet session. Hans is still in Outremer.

AussieGiant
08-18-2007, 06:36
Guy's,

I really think everyone should just get involved whenever you want to contribute in the Tavern.

I know it's a but urealistic but the Role play options are being increasingly impressive given how long this game has gone on for.

I would real just jump into it rather than think you can't because of distance. It's a game so what the hell.

The tavern is not really going to work with proxies. It's too personal.

Arnold is meant to be in a forest a 1000 miles east of the tavern but I don't really care and no one else seems to mind.

Privateerkev
08-18-2007, 06:40
Tamur: Thanks! Look forward to seeing you in there.

FH: Just jump in like you would in the Diet.

AG: Your absolutely right. 2 years pass for every turn. We've mostly agreed to just warp into the Diet when we want so I think it should apply to the Tavern as well.

Like the story thread, the tavern is optional. But, if you want to do it, then just jump in and don't worry about the temporal warp. :beam:

Stig
08-18-2007, 10:14
Yesterday I played to 1302 and the results were quite interesting (note: I autoresolved everything, and sometimes didn't bother to reinforce), I other words it's not realistic
Provinces:
Ajaccio will be lost to Spain
Cagliari to the Moors
Rome to a rebellion (because I didn't bother fixing taxes and the like, this in real would never happen)
Florence to Sicily
Bologna to Hungary
Venice to Hungary
Genoa to France
Marseille to France
Milan to France
Zagred to Hungary
Bran to Hungary
Budapest to Poland
Breslau to Poland
Prague to Poland
Hamburg to Denmark
Dion to France
Edessa sacked by Mongols
Adana to Turks
Aleppo to a rebellion
Damascus to Egypt
Acre to Egypt
Antioch sacked by Mongols

Moscow is taken by the Teutonic Crusade, and even tho every leisure building is destroyed, Tax on Very High and it's abonded it won't rebel
Armies:
The Imperial Army, the FHA and the SHA and the Teutonic Crusade army are the only armies still capable of doing anything. Tho the FHA lost half it's men near Breslau and the Imperial Army the same at Hamburg.
Characters (the fun part Aussiegiant ~D )
Arnold deserts to the Poles
Edmund Becker dies defending Budapest
Lothar dies defending Cagliari
Wolfgang dies defending Dijon
Those in Rome now die defending Florence
Helmut gets executed by the Pope
Ansehelm survives the same and is lonely in Russia, looking to get back to the Reich which takes ages.
All Outremer characters are killed by either Mongols or Egyptians:
Hans destroys a Mongol army against the odds, but dies in the following battle.
Jan and Mathias escape Edessa but get killed in Acre.
Dieter dies in Edessa
Jens becomes a glorious fool in a succesfull defence of Antioch, but gets killed by group of Mongols when they attack it.
Karl is cornered and killed by Mongols somewhere near Damascus.

That's about it, note again: it's highly unrealistic as I did those 22 something turns in about half an hour.

econ21
08-18-2007, 10:37
Yes, I've experienced something similar Stig.

I think it is mainly due to taxes - if the Chancellor does not manage them, the Reich will fall due to rebellions. (Hence the Hummel impeachment.) The AI is more capable than in RTW, but we are so dominant, it is internal dissent that is the main challenge to us.

Ituralde
08-18-2007, 11:34
My worst fears have come true. Seems like my laptop is wrecked. The gfx chip is acting up and it would need a new motherboard to replace it, which is way beyond my budget right now. Since I'm moving next weekend my other PC is already at my parents, so if my girlfriends laptop hasn't been repaired by now, I won't have internet for the next week.

This comes at a bad time, since I initially planned on becoming Chancellor next term. With all this in mind, I will have to wait for the Diet session after the next one. Hopefully I'll have resolved my problems until then. I'll try to somehow get online for the next Diet session too though, I believe there are still some legal things that need sorting out. And I'd rather have Siegfried sort them out. :beam:

Once again sorry for my absence!

Ituralde

econ21
08-18-2007, 13:29
Ituralde - sorry to hear about your PC woes.


I believe there are still some legal things that need sorting out.

Yes, one is the issue of Conrad Salier's replacement as King of Outremer to be sorted out. He recommended Karl Zirn, but the decision is yours. If you go with KZ, then it would be helpful if you could authorise Elberhard (or someone else) to act as Steward of Outremer while Northnovas is away.

This is rather pressing as at the Diet, the King nominates Crusader Counts and can propose 3-6 motions.

TinCow
08-18-2007, 15:11
If the Tavern thing goes ahead, I would like to suggest that it exist in Florence. First of all, Florence is near Rome, so it makes sense to be 'close' to the Diet. Second, Lothar has been (and will be) devoting all build queues in Florence to the tavern line until a Pleasure Palace is complete. I believe this would be a fitting IC spot for the Tavern.

Privateerkev
08-18-2007, 15:19
The tavern is up and running. It is a thread in the throne room. I eagerly await for Lothar to make his entrance because him, Arnold, and Ebelhard were who I had in mind when I thought of the idea. As for moving it, I like that it is by the Diet. That way we shuttle back and forth before and after Diet meetings. Also, some players only like to RP that they are in Rome during Diet sessions and having the Tavern in Rome might entice such players to join in even if it is only once every couple weeks.

On the other hand, we already pretend that there is a temporal rift when it comes to space/time so I guess it doesn't really matter if the Tavern is in Rome, Florence, or Timbuktu. Those that want to take part in it, will probably do so regardless of where I say it is. I think it being in Rome is probably more to do with my own anal-retentiveness to have it down the block from the Diet. :beam:

When I wake up and ingest some coffee, I might change the first post to read that its in Florence, but till then, its down the block from the Diet for now. ^_^

*edit*

Upon further thought, another reason I like that the Tavern is in Rome, is because of the neutral location. The Tavern should be a neutral spot where anyone, regardless of house or politics, can feel comfortable kicking back a pint. Not every character is going to want to go on holiday in Bavaria (especially not when someone becomes Duke. LOL) The idea of marrying the tavern in the thread to a structure that exists in the game does make sense to my anal-retentive side, but is secondary to my wish to provide a neutral environment that everyone would feel welcome in.

OverKnight
08-18-2007, 16:44
The report for 1278 has been updated.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1641560&postcount=246

OverKnight
08-18-2007, 18:36
The report for 1280 is up. I have added a link to the save there.

May as well put it here too.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1280.zip

GeneralHankerchief
08-18-2007, 18:42
Well done OK. :bow:

Looks like I'm going to miss part of another Diet session - I'll be out from Tuesday to Friday. Active Duty list has been reflected to update this. Sigh.

econ21
08-18-2007, 21:40
I've updated the stats in the playlist:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1

Let me know if there are any errors in the influence - e.g. if I have missed someone being made a Count etc.

TinCow
08-18-2007, 21:52
Wait, when did Jens become "Jens the Honourable"?

*grumbles*

Guess I'm gonna have to find a way to RP around that one.

It's from Chivalrous in Rule, which only applies to how he manages his own lands. You can still be a total bastard to everyone who isn't your direct vassal.

[edit]
Library is (mostly) updated. It seems my stretching problem is a problem with M2TW, not my settings. The game puts the campaign and battle map in the proper resolution, but apparently CA forgot to code the interface to scale as well. The result is that the campaign map info boxes and the battle map unit cards appear stretchy in widescreen, no matter what you do. As a work-around, I just need to switch my campaign map resolution to a non-widescreen setting before taking the Library screenshots. As you can see, they all look normal.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 03:55
TC: I got a weird question. I was looking at Jan in the library and he has a trait missing. I think I'm using the mod so is this a problem on my end?

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 04:21
Hey PK

The legislation requires a CA for provinces taken to be incorporated into the Reich.

You need some more lawyers :)


Econ

Becker is now a count so can you adjust the Influence for him please.

I guess the unused Austrian Avatar can't be used by me as extra voting can it? :)

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 04:25
AG, your right and I edited my post after reading the CA. :beam:

As for house edicts, you do seem kind of !@#$'d. I wonder if people thought of that when they pushed for Karl to be King. o_O

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 04:31
AG, your right and I edited my post after reading the CA. :beam:

As for house edicts, you do seem kind of !@#$'d. I wonder if people thought of that when they pushed for Karl to be King. o_O

You know me mate. I'm just battling on against the odds here.

Little old house Austria...me, Becker and a few stray dogs.

But seriously.

If I can't use von Heidelberg, we can't even second our own House Edicts.

Karl is still tight with Arnold so that wont go away...shocking as it may seem he's still Count of Zagreb and an Austrian by Blood.

But OOC he's not hear plus if he is ratified as King of Outremer, then yes he will not be part of the House formally.

And what does "FINE ARMOUR" do as an item. I just saw Arnold has acquired this.

OverKnight
08-19-2007, 04:31
Actually, since Karl isn't officially King yet, he could still second Austrian House Edicts. However, it's kinda moot since he's on vacation.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 04:39
Well, if he was here, I assume he would accept econ's "provisional King" position. Which would take him out of house Austria immediately. And yes AG, he would still be Count of Zagreb but he probably couldn't post build queues there anymore. Just like when TC said Conrad should stop posting them for Nuremburg. You could ask Karl to turn down the position. Boy would that be an interesting conversation... o_O

You'd have to ask econ, but I am assuming you can't use an unclaimed avatar to "pre-second" house edicts.

And the fine armor gives extra HP to your avatar. I think its 4.

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 04:40
Better than the Ornamental armor Siegfried has :p

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 04:43
Better than the Ornamental armor Siegfried has :p

Yeah but his gives +1 Authority and since that is his "influence" it actually works out better for him.

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 04:53
Great so Austria is totally £$%$£ed when it come to our 3 house edicts.

You know what...I'm going to go a little "postal" in the Diet now.

See you in there.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 04:57
Great so Austria is totally £$%$£ed when it come to our 3 house edicts.

You know what...I'm going to go a little "postal" in the Diet now.

See you in there.

Jan = :hide:

Outremer has a few dozen. You could ask us for a few! :laugh4:

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 05:00
Jan = :hide:

Outremer has a few dozen. You could ask us for a few! :laugh4:

And that's my god damn point!!

Here is a House with a direct blood line to the #$^$#ing Kasier, hamstrung due to various issues, while the "Kingdom" of Outremer is bathing in edicts and asking for more influcene.

BOLLOCKS I say.

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 05:02
You can always ask another house to put forth the edicts for you. Austria isn't without friends afterall.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 05:04
FH is right.

I think Arnold and Ebelhard should have a talk. There is probably an understanding that can be reached.

OverKnight
08-19-2007, 05:07
My thought would be you could present House Edicts if AG and Cecil agree, but you would need another second from the Diet to get it to a vote.

The intent of the legislation was to cut down on Edicts not punish houses because of a dearth of members.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 05:11
OK's idea works for me too. As funny as it would be to watch Arnold throw a dread duke tantrum, I really don't want to see Austria hamstrung with the whole house edict thing.

On further reflection, that would work better than using Outremer edicts. 2 of Ebelhard's 3 personal edicts have to deal with Outremer affairs. And the other 3 need two Crusader Counts to pre-second them. Though I am sure something could be worked out.

gibsonsg91921
08-19-2007, 05:15
yeah ahhnuld franconia is always ur ally - me an ansehelm are 6 and 5 dread, respectively

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 05:19
Its kind of funny how only the Emperor, the King and Bavaria are chivalrous with the rest being dreadful.

gibsonsg91921
08-19-2007, 05:20
we all just love killin people

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 05:20
Its kind of funny how only the Emperor, the King and Bavaria are chivalrous with the rest being dreadful.

Well, they aren't the only ones with chivalry...

*points at the Jan avatar*

:beam:

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 05:22
But Jan ain't a duke :wink:

GH: Quite...extreme.

OverKnight
08-19-2007, 05:25
Well as a Hummel, Jens has that dominant rabble-rouser gene.

Of course he just burned his personal legislative proposal. :laugh4:

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 05:26
But Jan ain't a duke

GH: Quite...extreme.

True, but you didn't specify that you were talking about only Dukes.

As for GH, I was wondering how he would deal with having a character that is basically on the bottom of the power structure. :laugh4:

GeneralHankerchief
08-19-2007, 05:34
Hey, I've been playing Conrad since April. There's a lot of steam that needs to be blown off.

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 05:38
I'm draft a state of the bollocks address.

Well see how many plates the Dread Duke can break at one time.

It's bound to be somewhat self destruictive...but you know...IC I don't think the man gives a fly /#%$^# right now. :laugh4:

OverKnight
08-19-2007, 05:40
Hey, I've been playing Conrad since April. There's a lot of steam that needs to be blown off.

I know, you haven't killed a Pope in ages. . .all that repressed Dread. :laugh4:

Strike out with your hatred, feel it flow through you.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 05:46
Hey, I've been playing Conrad since April. There's a lot of steam that needs to be blown off.

I've been wondering what would happen when you could finally play a mean !@#$ again! :laugh4:

Its nice to cross swords with someone again IC. It became far too politically dangerous to keep doing it with Arnold.

:duel:

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 06:22
Well, the politics just hit the ceiling.

While it should not be taken entirely anti Outremer, the pendulum has swung way too far for Arnold's threshold.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 06:27
No, I think Arnold should be going nuclear so its cool.

:2thumbsup:

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 06:44
No, I think Arnold should be going nuclear so its cool.

:2thumbsup:


That's refreshing to hear. I was expecting the anti Outremer edge to it causing more issues.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 06:59
No, Arnold was right. Outremer was built by the Houses sacrificing its people and money. And some in Outremer, like Jan, have not been grateful enough. So, his speech had an edge to it but it should have an edge to it. :yes:

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 07:24
No, Arnold was right. Outremer was built by the Houses sacrificing its people and money. And some in Outremer, like Jan, have not been grateful enough. So, his speech had an edge to it but it should have an edge to it. :yes:

Ok then...it seems I have managed to balance the situation.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 07:31
Here is my thoughts on it. With econ's permission, we should ignore that part of the CA with regards to Arnold. He should be allowed to just need Edmund to second ducal edicts. Arnold should not be forced to rely on other electors for seconds. Nor should he have to use other people's edicts. Arnold is not big on handouts and he shouldn't need one in this case. :yes:

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 08:29
TC: I got a weird question. I was looking at Jan in the library and he has a trait missing. I think I'm using the mod so is this a problem on my end?

PK is correct.
His entry is missing "Understands Trade" (GoodTrader 1) and is incorrect with "AspiringCommander" (GoodCommander 2) which should be "Promising Commander".

TC, can you please make sure that you have the fixes installed correctly and working?

OverKnight
08-19-2007, 08:56
Very funny story Ituralde. I hope your RL vacation is just as good.

Ituralde
08-19-2007, 09:01
Gotta have a reason for the Emperor to be away. :2thumbsup:

And I hope this is some water on the mills of those, that didn't like Siegfreid in the first place. That along with his rather short and businesslike message to the Diet. I know we don't like using proxies, but I hope you can live with it this time.

Cheers!

Ituralde

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 09:07
All I got to say is....


O_O


Believe me guys, no one is more surprised than me...

I figured Jan would get it eventually but damn...

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 09:11
Surprising, but also that Siegfried decided to strike down 11.6 which passed with almost the same margin (albeit very slightly lower) than 9.1.
Considering that 11.6 is an extension of the part of 9.1 (i.e. amending it), how can he actually take it from the charter?

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 09:23
Yeah, I'm trying to make sense of it but my head is still swimming...

:dizzy2:

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 09:30
Can someone give me the presidential summary of all that overriding!!??

And please keep it to 4 sentences or less if humanly possible?

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 09:33
According to what the Kaiser said,

CA 11.6 is gone. Period.

CA 11.3 is still there.

The part about the King having 3 personal edicts (which came from CA 11.4) is gone

The rest of the stuff that CA 11.4 bestowed is still there like Duke influence and Counts only getting influence from one county

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 09:36
So PK

If CA 11.6 is gone what is the wording covering the King's position?

The second impact is the King of Outremer has only three Outremer edicts and not six?

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 09:38
Yes, only 3 edicts, and according to Ituralde, King appointments are only per diet session and not for life.
The last part probably could use some confirming from TC who knows more about wordings and legalities on whether Siegfried could remove 11.6 even though it does not directly interfere with 9.1 (you can still appoint every diet, but the appointment lasts for life)

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 09:39
Appointment of the King goes back to this:


4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session.


And the King has 3 house edicts that need two Crusader Counts to second. The three personal edicts are now gone.

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 09:44
Well slap me in the belly with a wet fish!!

The Kaiser, on his bed of porn and pot has the most blinding series of common sense ideas I've seen a quite some time.

Maybe I should get over to Constantinople for a hit!! :yes:

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 09:45
I'm just scared of what the Kaiser is going to ask of Jan in the future... :laugh4:

Well, power comes with a price...

OverKnight
08-19-2007, 09:50
So basically, the Kaiser just called from his vacation, saying what a great time he was having while we're all slaving away and then gives us a few more projects to work on.

My brain hurts.

Oligarchy anyone? :laugh4:

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 10:01
If I ever become the Emperor then I can tell you it will be a hell of a ride for everyone.

Stig
08-19-2007, 10:03
I'm suprised no-one stood up against the fact Jan is King yet, sides Arnold is overreacting, it's not like other houses have children, atleast Austria has Zirn. ~D

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 10:03
I have the feeling that Ituralde is just starting...

o_O

*edit*

stood up against it? that part at least is pretty clear cut. ^_^

Ituralde
08-19-2007, 10:07
Glad to see that my post is received so well. :beam:

I forgot to mention, that this could be the last time that I'm online for the next week. If you don't hear from me by Monday, don't expect to hear from me until next Sunday.

So while of course Siegfried does not want to hear anything from the Diet, I also can't, so it would just look weir if Siegfried were there but didn't answer.
If questions arise however, this is all done under Charter 5.4. :yes:

AussieGiant
08-19-2007, 10:08
I'm suprised no-one stood up against the fact Jan is King yet, sides Arnold is overreacting, it's not like other houses have children, atleast Austria has Zirn. ~D

Well mate it was a near thing that the King of Outremer is elected for life and renouces all alligences to his House.

That would leave no kids and two married in laws as all that is left of Austria

And it's too easy for you to say when you have 6 active avatars.

Is that 5.4 or 5.5? The Prinz is deputising then?

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 10:11
I'm amused that people are arguing that Jan should be King for life. :laugh4:

And yeah AG, this just took a load off of Arnold's back. Can you imagine when NN comes back? To find out that King Salier died, Karl was made kind of king by Ebelhard only to have it overturned by the Kaiser who made Jan King.

awesome...

StoneCold
08-19-2007, 10:17
hmm... this seems like the most active weekend diet session I have ever seen.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 10:21
Is that 5.4 or 5.5? The Prinz is deputising then?

He means,


5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

FactionHeir
08-19-2007, 10:27
Or maybe he wants to be overthrown :inquisitive:

But I think he meant 5.5 which means the Prince takes over when the emperor isn't there.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 10:30
The Prince made clear that the Kaiser could come in and overturn everything he said as Steward. And, he did. :laugh4:

Ituralde
08-19-2007, 11:59
Just for clarification: I meant 5.4: The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.

Of course the Prince is responsible to keep peace in the Diet, but he doesn't have any powers of the Emperor beyond that.

And now, I'm really gone! :beam:

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 15:01
*wakes up, pads over to the computer, rubs his eyes,*

And realizes Jan has just been made King for life...

:balloon2:

Oh man I need coffee...

TinCow
08-19-2007, 16:16
TC: I got a weird question. I was looking at Jan in the library and he has a trait missing. I think I'm using the mod so is this a problem on my end?


PK is correct.
His entry is missing "Understands Trade" (GoodTrader 1) and is incorrect with "AspiringCommander" (GoodCommander 2) which should be "Promising Commander".

TC, can you please make sure that you have the fixes installed correctly and working?


They're installed. Most likely I made an error while cutting and pasting. I've done that a few times before. I'll fix it in a bit.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 22:27
I've already told GH that I liked his story. But, the whole time, the scene from Spaceballs, where Dark Helmet was playing with his dolls, was running through my head. :laugh4:




"Oh...your helmet is sooo big!"

GeneralHankerchief
08-19-2007, 23:42
Yeah, that was its inspiration.

Privateerkev
08-19-2007, 23:51
[Dark Helmet is in his room, playing with Spaceballs dolls. Sandurz opens the door.]
Sandurz: Lord Helmet.
[Dark Helmet hurries to hide the dolls.]
Dark Helmet: WHAT??
Sandurz: You're needed on the bridge, sir.
Dark Helmet: KNOCK ON MY DOOR!! KNOCK NEXT TIME!!
Sandurz: Sorry, sir.
Dark Helmet: [pause] Did you see anything?
Sandurz: No, sir. I didn't see you playing with your dolls again.
Dark Helmet: Good!


:laugh4:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 04:32
Ignoramus: Make some PM space...

OverKnight
08-20-2007, 11:40
Diet Sessions when we have more CAs than Edicts give me hives.

AussieGiant
08-20-2007, 13:03
Diet Sessions when we have more CAs than Edicts give me hives.

Totally $%#$ing agree!!

Tamur
08-20-2007, 15:48
Fritz is working to fix that :beam:

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 16:08
This argument in the Diet is giving me a headache in real life. :laugh4:

Stig
08-20-2007, 16:09
Can we question the position of the King of the Outremer, so that the Dukes will need to hold a council? ~D

GeneralHankerchief
08-20-2007, 16:09
Now if CA 12.2 were passed this would all be so much easier. :saint:

Stig
08-20-2007, 16:17
How did Helmut manage to reach the Diet? He's in deep Russia, sure we can warp in, but this is kinda unrealistic


btw Kage, Helmut is count of Hamburg

Kagemusha
08-20-2007, 16:19
Ok. I have assumed the role of Helmut Von Hamburg. I like his stats very much, would be nice to move from martyrs, to vicious character.:2thumbsup:EDIT: Im sorry,but he didnt have any titles in the Imperial library.My mistake. I can delete his entrance to the Diet if necessary.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 16:19
Can we question the position of the King of the Outremer, so that the Dukes will need to hold a council? ~D

Well the council is for succession disputes.

The charter says the Kaiser appoints a King.

The Kaiser appointed a King.

Not sure where the dispute is.

AussieGiant
08-20-2007, 16:25
Well the council is for succession disputes.

The charter says the Kaiser appoints a King.

The Kaiser appointed a King.

Not sure where the dispute is.

PK come on man...Stig's pulling your chain :yes:

Stig
08-20-2007, 16:27
PK come on man...Stig's pulling your chain :yes:
Am I?
:hide:




:bounce:

GeneralHankerchief
08-20-2007, 16:28
I think I remember in one of the CAs passed last session it said the King could be impeached if a certain amount of Dukes agree.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 16:31
Yup, CA 11.6 is still active due to Econ's intervention.

A King can be impeached if the Kaiser and two Dukes agree. :beam:

AussieGiant
08-20-2007, 16:41
Can we not talk about impeachment please...

...it's like a drug or something.


There's nothing to impeach about.:juggle2:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 16:43
All this legal quabble in the diet gives me a headache...

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 16:46
I'm actually coming down with a migrain... o_O

Kagemusha
08-20-2007, 16:50
Wrong thread.

Stuperman
08-20-2007, 16:59
Are the influance gained by being a count/crusader count and a Duke/king cumlative?

if they are then the whole c-counts being more influential than the king goes out the window as long as the KOTO is a crusader count first, then named the king. He could be count of an Imperial Province in the outremer.

Influance could work something like:

count +1
C-count +2
King +1 (cumlative)
Duke +4

or C-counts could be +1, BUT get to keep a county in Europe giving them more influance than regular counts. It would also help for avatars Spawned in the Outremer, as they aren't really Crusaders per say. If they get a county in the outremer then they would have the same voting power as european counts, which is right.

which would make it:

counts +1
c-counts +1 (+1 european county, +2 total)
King OTO +1 (+1 outremer county, +1 european county, +3 total)
Dukes +4

and any avatar that spawned in the outremer and got a county would have +1 like a european count, as they haven't really sacrificed anything to go to the outremer.

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 17:04
Stuperman.

In the last diet TC abolished the extra influence CCs were getting up until that point.

From an OOC perspective, maybe giving the KoO the same influence as a CC at least would be fair. Currently, he gets a bonus of 0 as he is not a CC.

AussieGiant
08-20-2007, 17:07
^#$# me Stuperman. Lets not go there. :laugh4:

It's not cumulative as far as I am concerned.

Stuperman
08-20-2007, 17:08
I thought the whole arguement IC right now started after PK proposed changing the charter to give the KOTO +2 influance, I figured that was from +1, not +0. OOPS.

Tamur
08-20-2007, 17:13
How about we all just say +d4 to hitpoints on levelling and leave it at that?

:clown:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 17:14
So what prevents people from just rerolling until they get +4? :wink:

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 17:15
Actually I would go from +1 to +2. That would give me more influence than some Crusader Counts but the same as others. (the ones who are Chancellors or ex-chancellors) TC and I hashed this out in the last OOC thread last Diet. Being King gives me +1 because a Kaiser rule dispute would pretty much rule that I am a CC for influence purposes since there is no King listed in the influence. We're going by long precedent on that one. CA 12.4 would simply give the King+2 and would not be stacked. I would not claim to be both a CC and a King.

Stuperman
08-20-2007, 17:15
I have no Idea what Tamur and FH are talking about.

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 17:17
Actually I would go from +1 to +2. That would give me more influence than some Crusader Counts but the same as others. (the ones who are Chancellors or ex-chancellors) TC and I hashed this out in the last OOC thread last Diet. Being King gives me +1 because a Kaiser rule dispute would pretty much rule that I am a CC for influence purposes since there is no King listed in the influence. We're going by long precedent on that one. CA 12.4 would simply give the King+2 and would not be stacked. I would not claim to be both a CC and a King.

Actually before the passage of 11.4, the King was listed as +1 influence in the C&G. 11.4 removed that I believe.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 17:47
Well, again that is precedent. It was put in the C&G because that was how we were playing. There is no explicit law to give the King +1. We just claim that the Charter of Outremer infers that it gives +1 to the King.

StoneCold
08-20-2007, 17:53
Stuperman, I think they are talking in D&D terms. Meaning rolling a 4 sided dice to determine the amount of influence one has, hence the d4, and keep rolling until one gets a 4 in influence.

Tamur and FH correct me if I am wrong.

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 17:57
Quite.

TinCow
08-20-2007, 18:01
Well, again that is precedent. It was put in the C&G because that was how we were playing. There is no explicit law to give the King +1. We just claim that the Charter of Outremer infers that it gives +1 to the King.

Yeah, that was the idea. The notion was that the King was also a Crusader Count (essentially a promoted one) so he counted for the +1. I guess it isn't specifically laid out at the moment. I, for one, am not going to bring that up in the Diet. I feel bad enough for having drawn out this technical morass of a Diet session and I will not contribute to it further.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 18:02
And I deeply appreciate you not having Lothar bring up that little bomb. I figured since we settled it OOC, its all good. :2thumbsup:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 18:06
Oh, but one of the others might :laugh4: (not Hans though)

Stuperman
08-20-2007, 18:13
Don't worry, there are plenty of other Political Land Mines lying around.

@PK, I wasn't suggesting anything like govern-by comitee, more an exchange of pm's. I really don't care OOC, and IC it's more a Bavarian Sovernty thing for Gerhad, I really don't care what gets built in Adana, As long as Bavaria has final say, beit through veto power or some other mechanism.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 18:13
FH:

They can but we have pretty much agreed OOC how its going to go so they'll just be spinning their wheels. :yes:

SM:

Well, our exchange scared Hans so much that he screwed over Jan. It has made for some interesting PM's. :D

Even though I am not doing too well IC, I am having a blast OOC. ^_^

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 18:16
Pah, scared. More like disappointed in Jan's behavior. :grin2:

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 18:18
Well, it seems Hans seems scared that he is going to lose the election. :yes:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 18:19
Not really. He doesn't care too much over Outremer's vote anyway, although he does like to keep them friendly.
The idea of his candidacy was mostly for creating a contest in the first place, not to absolutely win it.

Tamur
08-20-2007, 18:20
So what prevents people from just rerolling until they get +4?

:laugh4: hadn't thought of that.

This all has been great fun to watch. Unfortunately I've got too much going to join in the festivities more than the occasional introverted Fritz tirade.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 18:23
FH:

Well, yeah the Outremer vote is pretty small this time around. But he is scared at losing face to the other houses. He also doesn't seem to think that Jan is his superior. Time to go fuedalism on someone's !@# :laugh4:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 18:27
One of the reasons (and Jan doesn't know it) is that he doesn't actually want to be a crusader count but rather fight the Mongols and then go back to Europe.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 18:30
Jan might not "know" it for sure but he did notice the "convenient" timing of when Hans decided to stay. So, he has his suspicions. That and another character is whispering in is ear to lend weight to those suspicions. Ah the intrigue...


:beam:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 18:33
Well, I would expect no less from an OverKnight with no chivalry and less piety than either Hans or Jan :wink:

Still, you have yet to reply to the PM. Just to make it more fun.

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 18:42
Because he is sitting on it. :D

Hans miffed him off big time. :yes:

Ituralde
08-20-2007, 18:45
The laptop of my girlfriend was repaired in time, so I will at least have internet access. Don't expect too much activity though, since I'm moving on Friday, things could get a little confused here until then.

I see that there has been quite a discussion in the Diet. Quite nice. I'm gonna let Siegfried keep quiet until later though. Just post my votes.
Maybe an OOC explanation to why I practically abolished CA 11.6.

The thing is that unlike other CAs that changed the Charter, that one forgot to clean up after himself. If you look at the current Charter there are now two sections which tell how the King of Outremere gets nominated and for how long. So there's a rule conflict and as Kaiser it was my job to solve it. This does not mean that one can't change the Charter of Outremere, but if you propose something that contradicts the Charter of Outremere, make sure to ammend the Charter so that it is consistent.

I'll probably let Siegfried talk a bit that IC too, but that's the OOC thoughts I had on the matter.

Keep up the discussion!

Ituralde

Privateerkev
08-20-2007, 18:48
Well, econ actually had the Prince rule that it stays. With "conflicting legislation", we're supposed to only compare ones from the latest session. Not a current one compared to a past one. If you do that, then they pretty much all conflict. :laugh4:

FactionHeir
08-20-2007, 18:52
The problem is that Ituralde only has 5 Authority. If he had 10 like econ, his word would be divine mandate :grin:
It lends quite nicely to intrigue though, that debacle over Jan's term.

Btw, I just noticed Hans is the last survivor of the first crusade.

GeneralHankerchief
08-20-2007, 19:04
Well, seeing as he was only a teenager when it began...

OverKnight
08-20-2007, 23:47
Jan might not "know" it for sure but he did notice the "convenient" timing of when Hans decided to stay. So, he has his suspicions. That and another character is whispering in is ear to lend weight to those suspicions. Ah the intrigue...



Well, I would expect no less from an OverKnight with no chivalry and less piety than either Hans or Jan :wink:


I can categorically assure everyone that Matthias Steffen is not behind these rumors. The "Crusader Veterans for Truth" Political Action Commitee is in no way affiliated with the "Matthias '80" campaign.

That is all. :laugh4:

econ21
08-21-2007, 00:59
Thanks to Tincow's initiative and TosaInu's ability to work miracles, all members on the playlist should now have a PM box capacity of 200. So we should not have to post "Ignoramus, please clear your PM box" ... for another week or so, at least. :laugh4:

OverKnight
08-21-2007, 01:00
It's good to have friends in high places. :2thumbsup:

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 01:00
Ig could solve this by... clearing his PM box periodically. :laugh4:



And then perhaps the screaming inside my head will stop...

Please make it stop...

huh? lol

AussieGiant
08-21-2007, 01:33
Oh mighty one you have made great sense in your decision...

...many member now wery happy!!

Thanks Econ

GeneralHankerchief
08-21-2007, 01:40
many member now wery happy!!

Wow, I haven't seen that spelling since I read the Dark Tower series.

AG, are you a fan or was that just unintentional?

AussieGiant
08-21-2007, 01:46
Wow, I haven't seen that spelling since I read the Dark Tower series.

AG, are you a fan or was that just unintentional?

I read like I breath air. The Dark Tower series sounds familar, maybe it was sub conscious on my behalf. Who is the auther and main characters.

GeneralHankerchief
08-21-2007, 01:47
Stephen King is the author. Main characters: Roland, Eddie, Susannah, Jake, the Crimson King...

Although I think you would have remembered it had you read it.

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 01:48
Wow, CA 12.9 went easy. I should have made the King +3, the Dukes +4, and raised the caps accordingly. :laugh4:

Ignoramus
08-21-2007, 01:51
Can I just say that this level of activity is very hard to keep up with. I go to bed and wake up to find over 4 new pages just in the OOC and Diet threads alone. I don't have tons of time to turf through all the new posts and this is making me feel somewhat out of it.

It's nice having the tavern thread, but it's just another thing to keep track of.

Ignoramus
08-21-2007, 01:52
Thanks to Tincow's initiative and TosaInu's ability to work miracles, all members on the playlist should now have a PM box capacity of 200. So we should not have to post "Ignoramus, please clear your PM box" ... for another week or so, at least. :laugh4:

Hate to disappoint you, but I already had a PM box of 200 messages. :embarassed:

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 01:55
Well, consider the Tavern optional. Good for some flavor but not necessary. Like the Story Thread. I rather have too much activity than too little. :yes:

AussieGiant
08-21-2007, 02:53
Hi Everyone,

Should I put Arnold's , Austrian House post, in the Stories thread or leave it there?

TinCow
08-21-2007, 02:58
Can I just say that this level of activity is very hard to keep up with. I go to bed and wake up to find over 4 new pages just in the OOC and Diet threads alone. I don't have tons of time to turf through all the new posts and this is making me feel somewhat out of it.

It's nice having the tavern thread, but it's just another thing to keep track of.

The OOC thread, the tavern, and the House/Outremer threads are totally unnecessary to understand what is going on. If you read the Diet, you will be fully up to date.

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 02:59
AG: I think it is good where it is. I've done little stories in the Franconian house where Jan is just drinking or something. A lot of the houses have so little activity in between Diet sessions anyways.

BTW, I liked it. :D

FactionHeir
08-21-2007, 03:53
I still have my normal 175. Guess that bonus only applies to members :grin:

Tamur
08-21-2007, 04:17
I still have my normal 175. Guess that bonus only applies to members

:tongue2:

Senior members these days...

FactionHeir
08-21-2007, 05:30
Shouldn't the diet have closed like 10 hours ago already?

OverKnight
08-21-2007, 05:37
The session opened on Saturday at ~1600 GMT. So we got another 14 hours I think.

Edit: The session opened on August 18 at 1822 GMT.

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 05:40
the deadline for candidates to declare and legislation to be seconded will be Tuesday 19.00 UK time.

straight from the Lewd mouth :beam:

OverKnight
08-21-2007, 05:43
If Ituralde was a cruel man, which he isn't, he could have Siegfried swagger back into the Diet, all tanned and rested, and claim the Chancellorship as his own.

Wouldn't that be fun?

FactionHeir
08-21-2007, 05:44
Ah, econ extended the diet to almost 72 hours.

[edit]
Well, that would indeed endear him to many people ;)

GeneralHankerchief
08-21-2007, 05:45
I think there might be general resentment and grumblings, especially from the candidates, if that happened. :laugh4:

OverKnight
08-21-2007, 05:46
Let them eat cake.

GeneralHankerchief
08-21-2007, 05:49
Vive la Revolution!!!

God that took forever to type by hand.

AussieGiant
08-21-2007, 10:01
Sorry guy's I couldn't help myself. I've put the Dread Dukes "postal" move in the Stories thread.

Shameless self promotion but it came out quite well.

Nothing like seeing Bane the Dread Knight get a bit skittish at his boss.

GeneralHankerchief
08-21-2007, 16:15
All right, I'm out. See you guys on Friday.

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 16:19
OOC: Have fun! :balloon2:

IC: Jan will enjoy the relative peace and quiet. :laugh4:

TinCow
08-21-2007, 16:20
I suppose I will follow that up by saying that I will be out of town from Thursday, August 23, to Sunday, August 26. I have updated the active duty roster to show me as reserve duty for that period. I expect to have internet access and be able to post (infrequently) but I will not be able to fight battles.

FactionHeir
08-21-2007, 16:35
Wonder where econ is.
Maybe we should create the polls on our own?

Stig
08-21-2007, 16:37
Wonder where econ is.
Maybe we should create the polls on our own?
I'd say yes, but I think only a mod can put in the options we want

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 16:40
We still have about 3 hours so I'll wait.

Tamur
08-21-2007, 18:21
My guess is that, being late August, another year of fun and frolic with students is his to enjoy. Worry not, I'm sure he'll be around soon enough.

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 18:27
His students? What does he do?

FactionHeir
08-21-2007, 18:29
Well, if he has students, then he must be a teacher/lecturer, of course.

Stig: Anyone can create polls the way econ does, as far as I know.

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 18:32
FH: I know, I was curious about specifics. I'm in grad school so teaching will most likely be my vocation as well. :beam:

TinCow
08-21-2007, 19:19
I believe his is (not suprisingly) an economics professor.

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 19:21
*slaps hand to forhead*

Oh jeez, I can't believe I missed that one... :embarassed:

Tamur
08-21-2007, 19:39
Oh. I was under the impression that he had missed an R at the start of his moniker, and is actually a professor dealing with remote sensing.

(this is a joke, by the way, a really dry and awful one)

Cecil XIX
08-21-2007, 19:47
My favorite kind. :laugh4:

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 23:43
Holy Cow Ansehelm just exploded! :laugh4:

If only he knew how little I had to do with how the Franconians voted...

Stig
08-21-2007, 23:46
If only he knew how little I had to do with how the Franconians voted...
Not entirely true, he spoke to one
Next to that it's also about the discussions from yesterday and the day before (with Lothar and the like), it takes some time for news to reach Russia (one day is quite fast even, half a year is more correct, but I couldn't be bothered to wait till Christmas).

Privateerkev
08-21-2007, 23:51
He spoke to them yes but they were already going to vote that way. In my opinion, this has much more to do with Ansehelm being an "absentee Duke" than any nefarious plot by the King. The King messaged a few people and asked how they were going to vote. Those people volunteered that they were going to vote for Matthias. The King said "have a good day" and moved on.

Like I said in the Diet, the one lone exception is Dieter. The King had no problem telling Dieter very very clearly how he expected him to vote. But Dieter is a Crusader by choice. He could have taken the "Wolfgang shuttle" back to the Reich last session but he stuck around even though he had no County and no battles. So, he made his choice.

Besides Dieter, Jan did not try to coerce anyone else. I am not even sure how he could coerce anyone else.

Stig
08-21-2007, 23:55
Don't discuss things OOC that can be discussed IC, or you might find I begin to dislike people OOC as well.
Stig and Ansehelm have very different ways of thinking, you and Jan seem to be the same.

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 00:01
Whoa, calm down buddy. Lets not get all hostile in the OOC thread.

I said this OOC because I want it clear OOC that I am not the main responsibility for the Franconians all voting the way they did.

What is interesting is that Ansehelm seems mad at Jan for playing politics. Yes, Jan went to individual people. But, if Franconia had a strong Duke, Jan wouldn't even be able to do it. Jan could not have pulled this off with the Bavarians, Austrians, or Swabians because their leaders lay the law down in a major way. You had Ansehelm wander off into the woods and his people got bored and craved leadership. What did you expect to happen? I thought I would actually have to ask them to do it when they in fact happily volunteered. I am not sure how much Jan can be blamed for that.

If you want your people to follow Ansehelm, then take some lessons from Duke Arnold and lay the law down hard. Or take lessons from King Salier and offer them what they want. Or something in between. But don't just abandon them.

Stig
08-22-2007, 00:04
As I said, don't start discussing IC things that can be discussed IC. I said that I am not the same as Ansehelm, how hard is it to read?

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 00:06
Its not hard to read. I am just trying to explain that I am not the big bogeyman you think I am and that is easier and more convincing to do OOC than IC.

Lets chill. A lot is going on behind the scenes in this game and Jan is not even involved in half of it. He can't be blamed for the whole situation.

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 03:30
Dropping a bomb in the Diet in...3...2...1...


plop


:2thumbsup:



I needed to give Ituralde a little payback for what he did to me. :yes:


hehehehe

FactionHeir
08-22-2007, 04:28
Its funny how Franconians (except Stig, who abstains) all vote OK even though he is voting down their legislation to take Vilnius :laugh2:

Interesting diet post btw PK. I don't think you'll be King after the next diet when Ituralde reads that :wink:

OverKnight
08-22-2007, 04:36
Well, not all the Franconians seemed to agree on the utility of taking Vilnius, or whether to hold it if taken. As Matthias said in the Diet, he'd rather take Krakow to shorten the borders and create a direct path from Budapest to Thorn.

Still if it passes it will have to be enforced.

Edit: I guess PK is seeking the full backing of the Kaiser, and is willing to gamble the job on it.

FactionHeir
08-22-2007, 04:40
I was thinking of taking Krakow too, but after talking to gibson, he insisted of Vilnius.
Now to make Hans think whether he will vote for the Franconian edict :grin2:

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 05:03
FH and OK,

Thanks!

Actually, while I am having a blast OOC, I am quite frustrated IC. The Kaiser drops a title on Jan and runs off. The Kaiser is already unpopular. Jan is already unpopular. The whole drop-the-title-on-the-new-guy-thing makes both unpopular, but the Kaiser is gone. Guess who gets the !@#$storm... Its Jan. Swimming uphill in a river of !@#$ would be a little easier if the Kaiser was around to have Jan's back but he is too busy passed out stoned on the lap of a hooker. :laugh4:

Also, TC and I talked a while ago on the last OOC thread about engineering an Outremer crisis. I just didn't think I could be in a position to do it so soon. Ituralde and I haven't spoken IC or OOC since the last Diet session so I had no clue that the Kaiser was going to "appoint-and-run". I assumed, like everyone else did, that it would go to Zirn. I guess he wanted to drop a bomb and stir things up. I wish he included me OOC though. It might have helped me prepare a little. I'm still learning the ins and outs of the game and I basically just got a crash course on a whole new level of complexity with upper politics that I did not know about.

So, left in what really is, an untenable situation, Jan is not happy. But, he is too loyal to the Kaiser to do anything really bad like revolt or something. So, it seems like as good a time as any to start dismantling Outremer. Or at least drastically rework it to the point where the Dukes aren't so resentful. Once the Dukes are back on board, it will be more fun to be out there. :yes:

FactionHeir
08-22-2007, 05:10
Actually, this will be the first time Outremer is not fully staffed too.

As for Jan, maybe Ituralde wanted to distract attention from himself (there! scapegoat!) just to come back at the next diet and name some popular choice, making himself more popular. Or if Jan does a good job, Ituralde can go on to say how he made the right choice. win-win?

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 05:12
Well, instead I hope he comes back to a full blown discussion about how we should pull out of Outremer. :beam: (oh my god that sounds dirty...)

I figured he threw me for a loop so I might as well return the favor. :yes:

AussieGiant
08-22-2007, 05:15
Hi PK,

It is certainly one of a few number of options that would "shake up" the situation we all find ourselves in. And I mean ALL of us.

I like the post a lot. IC and OOC issues (Ituralde being away and unable to provide input, shows just how important the Kaiser really is in many respects) are certainly placing the spot light on the whole "Concept" that was thrashed out and actioned upon all those decades ago.

I really like the situation now, as it shows the "big picture" strategy as being executed well in the initial stages, but now that Outremer is maturing there are more long term issues surfacing.

Much like the real history of the region actually.

I'll pop in with with Arnold soon.

OverKnight
08-22-2007, 05:15
Well, Jan didn't have to accept the assignment. You could resign in protest.

FactionHeir
08-22-2007, 05:16
With CA 11.6 whoever, resignations must be accepted by the emperor ;)

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 05:20
OK: True, he could resign. But, he does believe in the Outremer mission. He just realizes that he needs to get the Dukes truly on board or it simply is not going to work anymore. That, and I am having a blast OOC but I want to make it a little less impossible to get things done. Conceding to the Dukes and trying to rework Outremer will give me some breathing space and maybe help people lighten up towards Jan. King Salier was old enough and experienced enough to have a somewhat stable political situation. King Jan is the new kid on the block who was instantly promoted over way more qualified candidates, by a Kaiser that few respect, to a position that oversees what is a very big thorn in the Dukes' side. I simply can not keep up this pace IC without something giving. :no:

So, I dropped the bomb and we'll see if it creates some change. :beam:

AG: thnx!

OverKnight
08-22-2007, 05:29
Well, you've got the appointment, your power has been preserved, so you have 20 years to figure it out. Rome wasn't built in a day.

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 05:35
OK

Yes I did get the appointment and the power but my ability to actually do anything will rapidly diminish each session. Lothar will nibble away at the charter one CA at a time. I rather drop a tac-nuc on the Charter. Also, there gets a point where massive IC fights get tiring in real life. I wanted to make my character happier and nicer and the Kaiser plops a crown of !@#$ on his head that guarantees that Jan will be hated, feared, and envied more than ever. :laugh4:

I did try to time it right. If you've noticed, most of the stuff is already voted on. I didn't want to do it too early because it might screw up the election results. I didn't want to do it too late because activity in the Diet dies down in between sessions. This way, I get the election results I want that give me the space to enact the changes I want. :2thumbsup:

Stig
08-22-2007, 08:27
(except Stig, who abstains)
Ansehelms favours Hans, but if he votes Hans, and Hans doesn't become Chancellor Matthias might not support him anymore, hence the Abstain ... obviously I'm not going to tell this IC. ~D

OverKnight
08-22-2007, 08:32
Crushing those who vote against me isn't my style. It's occasionally tempting, but would create more problems than it solves.

Privateerkev
08-22-2007, 08:35
Whats funny is, by abstaining, your hurting who you favor and helping your opponent. You are taking away votes from the total vote pool in the game so your opponent needs less to win and you are not adding your votes to your candidate. When Ansehelm abstained, he made it easier for Matthias to win. Matthias first needed 42 votes to win but after Ansehelm took his 6 votes out of the vote pool, Matthias only needs 39. That certainly did not do Hans any favors. :book:

You should only abstain if you truly do not care who wins. Otherwise, the one you favor is not being helped by you.

Stig
08-22-2007, 08:40
Spare me the maths, it just a game for god's sake

Ignoramus
08-22-2007, 11:52
Has anyone heard what the next TW game is? It now includes naval combat and is focussed on the 18th century. It should be interesting to see how it develops.

econ21
08-22-2007, 12:04
Thanks for the heads-up, Ignoramus. Discussion is starting up over in the Entrance Hall.

Stig - your latest OOC posts are becoming antagonistic. I don't want bad blood spilling over from the Diet to here. If you are annoyed, take a break or take it to a PM. ~:grouphug:

Stig
08-22-2007, 12:05
I don't want bad blood spilling over from the Diet to here.
I'm not the one taking IC discussion OOC am I?

FactionHeir
08-22-2007, 12:07
Meh, another (unfinished) game from CA in the making.

TinCow
08-22-2007, 12:15
Also, TC and I talked a while ago on the last OOC thread about engineering an Outremer crisis. I just didn't think I could be in a position to do it so soon.

It wasn't an 'Outremer Crisis' it was a general 'Catastrophic Event' in the Reich. I have thought about it a bit since then as well and I don't think it would be good to really 'pin' the event on a single character, unless the player agrees to it beforehand. As we discussed before, I anticipate trying to do something 'massive' at the very beginning of the 1320 Chancellorship. I envision losing many territories (at least half) and essentially reducing the Reich to the core German cities and perhaps one territory in Outremer. At the same time, armies and garrisons will be disbanded all over the place, making us vulnerable. If it's possible to completely empty the recruitment pools, that would be good as well to prevent us from simply re-recruiting our armies instantly.

The 1320 date is designed to occur right before the plague and the Timurids, for further excitement. We've got a month or so before we're at that point though, so we don't need to discuss it in detail now.

Stig
08-22-2007, 12:33
Actually TC I think we shouldn't keep a core of German cities, we should simply keep the happier cities.
Then we end up with an Empire consisting of (for example:)
Hamburg, Frankfurt, Paris, Thorn, Pragua, Bologna, Milan, Antioch, Ragusa, Ajaccio (and some more)

That way it will be even more fun, as it's a proper rebellion, we have a city there, a city here, not some proper Reich.

OverKnight
08-22-2007, 13:28
I envision losing many territories (at least half) and essentially reducing the Reich to the core German cities and perhaps one territory in Outremer. At the same time, armies and garrisons will be disbanded all over the place, making us vulnerable.

:scared:

My second reaction would be that would be a tough manifesto to get elected on. :laugh4:

My fellow Electors, I plan to bring the Reich to it knees, bringing forth an age of darkness unparalled in history. Few of you will survive it, and all that we have built will be torn asunder. Chaos shall reign, and I will be it's agent. I humbly ask for your vote.

I'm glad I won't be in charge for that.

Could be interesting though.

TinCow
08-22-2007, 13:38
To make it fair, we would have to proceed IC as if we did not expect anything to occur. If no one else wants it, I will happily take that Chancellorship. I am confident I could manipulate the game well enough to make the 'event' occur and I also have faith in my ability to have Lothar survive any taint that might stain the Chancellor under who's watch it occurred.

Tamur
08-22-2007, 13:54
My fellow Electors, I plan to bring the Reich to it knees, bringing forth an age of darkness unparalled in history. Few of you will survive it, and all that we have built will be torn asunder. Chaos shall reign, and I will be it's agent. I humbly ask for your vote.

:laugh4:

Great way to start the morning, thanks OverKnight

As for TinCow's idea, it certainly could be interesting. Given that we can roll over anyone in battle (unless it's thrown, like poor Salier) we need a stronger challenge. Engineering that will be a challenge in itself, but I do agree some event like that would be a good idea.

Warmaster Horus
08-22-2007, 14:06
Smart. Very smart. That's a pretty good idea.

Beside that, I've a question. We've seen that our finances are in a pretty good situation. However, with the passing of CA 12.6 (the two armies per house one), won't that kind of ... be problematic? 5 more armies to support might impair our economy more than a bit, no?

OverKnight
08-22-2007, 14:11
For the most part, the HAs can be split in two and still be legal. Maybe throw in a few Cav units.

It'll take some time to fully implement.

StoneCold
08-22-2007, 14:12
Also is it tougher for you guys to try and keep the armies while at the same time suffering plague and loss of territories?

TinCow
08-22-2007, 14:12
Hopefully so. In the early days of the game, the economic crunch made it so that the Chancellor could not fulfill all build queues. That added another layer to the political bargaining process which has fallen to the wayside recently.