Let us speculate on the subject of fantasy units...

[Kongeslask]

At one point, the swedish army supposedly experimented with elk-riding cavalry. It failed because the animals are not trainable like horses. I predict that the Swedish faction will have such a unit.

For the Americas: I am guessing ahistorically regimented Indian units. Cannon-armed canoos and field artillery is also likely to make an appearance.

Russians may get access to the Tsar-cannon, historically a huge but impractical artillery piece.

[woad&fangs]

Why stop with elk cavalry, just give the Swedes Santas Scythed Sleigh-O-Death. And for those of you who don't know their American history, George Washington really did have a mech suit, CA is not making that one up. If there is pirates in the game then there have to be ninjas. Which faction ends up with them is anyones guess.

[Noir]

Certainly a worthwhile topic - given the affection CA has on fantasy units its about time the whining stops and instead some ideas are put forth.

Here's my suggestion:

The first "submarine" was more or less a barrel like wooden enclosure that could man a single person and was submerged slightly below the surface of the ocean. Its aim theoretically was to sabotage enemy vessels by silently approaching and damaging mechanically their hulls.

Perhaps we can get such a unit for the new exciting naval encounters. It should be cheap, expendible, fairly useless and so found in abundance in every AI fleet stack.

Noir

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

CA, we love you guys (or at least I do) but if you find a unit you're working on in this thread, scrap it.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Jacobite Berserkers. Crazed Scottish clansmen who fight with a great 2h-axe.

Sami Infantry. Because the Sami have historically had to fight to preserve their freedom or whatever CA said about the Sami Axemen of M2TW: Kingdoms.

[Incongruous]

South-Essex. This is the famous South Essex, which light company was later commanded by Richard Sharpe. It managed to see action at every great battle of the Peninsula war and France. It is able to fire four rounds a minute without the use of the ram-rod. It is interspersed by the famous chosen men of the 95th.
However it is often commanded by sadistic officers and a fiendish seargent. There is no way of stopping this regiments storyline to victory!

[Megalos]

They always come up with something "funky" in the mid-east. Instead fo elephants with cannons, I think they are going to go with a natural evolution to this unit and swap things around...Cannons that fire elephants.


Yeah don't laugh...I think this might even get in with CA's previous incarnations of 'flair' units! :idea2:



Only kidding CA! I love you! How about you give me a job at your company where I can get payed for playing your games?


Mega

[Bijo]

Sharks fully armed with underwater laser rifles on their heads. They can engage hostile fleets stealthily crippling them with merely a few shots. It could be secret advanced technology that is to be unlocked somewhere in the Western world as it was hidden by the believers who accidentally stumbled upon the invention but locked it away :laugh4:

[Megalos]

Hehe....well what about navy elelphants to compliment the naval warfare?


They could use their trunks to breathe under water and they could use their tusks to gore ship hulls....now all we need is some kind of goggles for 'em and we are away!


Mega

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Actually elephants were mentioned in the GameStar article.

[ratbarf]

Actually elephants were mentioned in the GameStar article.


Well that makes sense since the afghans used them excellently against the british in the first anglo-afghan war.

The submarine thing. If I am not mistaken it was american from that guy with the key and the kite Benjamin Franklin! Thats it. Anyways it was made for a four person crew looked like an underwater wooden ball and actually had a drill linked to the top to put holes in the ship's bilge so the crew wouldn't detect it until it was too late. The british actually feared this so much they stopped putting in warships too close to american ports or something like that. (That is actually true by the way.)

[ratbarf]

But what I really want to see make an appearence are the incindary monkeys. You light up the wick set them at the enemy and duck as they explode

[hoom]

Heres some fantasy special abilities:

Scottish units get the Highland Fling ability, giving a charge bonus similar to the Warcry of earlier games.

British Discipline gives the British troops a boost of morale to keep them fighting at those important points of battle.

Thin Red Line gives a rate of fire boost to British troops 2 ranks deep.

Double Tot gives a morale boost to ships at the expense of accuracy & higher chance of getting into irons or other handling error.

Cat 'o Nine Tails gives a handling speed boost to ships but at the expense of morale.

General Winter causes a wintry blast to do severe morale damage to the enemies of Russia.

Eat Cake gives French Royalist troops a combat boost against Rebels.

:balloon2:

[Rhyfelwyr]

Don't forget the "Summon Kraken" ability for whoever finds the heart of Davy Jones.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Sharks fully armed with underwater laser rifles on their heads. They can engage hostile fleets stealthily crippling them with merely a few shots. It could be secret advanced technology that is to be unlocked somewhere in the Western world as it was hidden by the believers who accidentally stumbled upon the invention but locked it away :laugh4:

http://xs319.xs.to/xs319/07361/dr_evil_1.jpg

Sharks with frikkin' laser-beams on their heads? It's frikkin' genius!

[Mailman653]

How about a sniper?:laugh4: In their unit card it can say "...and can shoot a squirel off a branch from 500 yards away"

Then we can have people in MP complain about people sniping their officers and leaders which everyone knows during this era is very un-gentelmen like :smg:

Or better yet, straw infantry! Take a page right out of the movie The Patriot.
Straw infantry cant be moved once they are placed on the map and are ment to intimidate your foe into believing you have a massive army :strawman2:

[ratbarf]

How about a sniper?:laugh4: In their unit card it can say "...and can shoot a squirel off a branch from 500 yards away"

Then we can have people in MP complain about people sniping their officers and leaders which everyone knows during this era is very un-gentelmen like :smg:


I sure hope they do have snipers. A sniper killed Lord General Brock in the War of 1812. Nearly cost us the damn thing too....

[Cornwallis]

The submarine thing. If I am not mistaken it was american from that guy with the key and the kite Benjamin Franklin! Thats it. Anyways it was made for a four person crew looked like an underwater wooden ball and actually had a drill linked to the top to put [QUOTE=ratbarf]in the ship's bilge so the crew wouldn't detect it until it was too late. The british actually feared this so much they stopped putting in warships too close to american ports or something like that. (That is actually true by the way.)

It was not invented by Benjamin Franklin. It was invented by a Yalee by the name of David Bushnell. Though most of your technical facts are right, it had a one man crew, never sank a ship, and had absolutely no effect on British naval actions. The Royal Navy continued to occupy whichever coastal port they chose with impunity.

[antisocialmunky]

Sasquatch Beserkers.

[ratbarf]

[QUOTE=ratbarf]The submarine thing. If I am not mistaken it was american from that guy with the key and the kite Benjamin Franklin! Thats it. Anyways it was made for a four person crew looked like an underwater wooden ball and actually had a drill linked to the top to put

It was not invented by Benjamin Franklin. It was invented by a Yalee by the name of David Bushnell. Though most of your technical facts are right, it had a one man crew, never sank a ship, and had absolutely no effect on British naval actions. The Royal Navy continued to occupy whichever coastal port they chose with impunity.


Really? I was pretty sure it scared the hell out of someone so they didn't do that. I got it off of a TV show on 17th to mid 20th naval stuff.

[GFX707]

Let me guess....an american TV show?

[Mailman653]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_(submarine)
Mystery solved.

[Cadwallon]

I reckon one thing might make an appearance - balloons. Montgolfier balloons were used as observation platforms by the French and later by the Americans during battle...

Perhaps increasing line of sight? Enabling hidden units (battlefield assassins, hidden ambushing units) to be seen?

[ninjahboy]

paratroopers :D
Benjimen franklin said something along these lines:
"Where is the prince who can afford so to cover his country with troops for its defence, so that ten thousand men descending from the clouds might not, in many places, do an infinite deal of mischief before a force could be brought together to repel them?"
ah you gotta love MoH Airbourne :P

[Daveybaby]

I'm still surprised that over the course of many total war games and expansions, the scottish faction has yet to field that most dreaded of missile units - the caber tosser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caber). The sight of hundreds of kilt wearing scotsmen, faces painted blue, carrying this traditional weapon is enough to crush the morale of even the stoutest of foes.

Admittedly the missile attack has a very short range, but any hit is a guaranteed kill. Also horses tend to trip over the used cabers, which is nice.

The scots often used this fearsome weapon with great success during their many conflicts with the english. At the Battle of Bannockburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn), King Edward II was heard to mutter "I hate those scottish tossers".

[Rodion Romanovich]

Really? I was pretty sure it scared the hell out of someone so they didn't do that. I got it off of a TV show on 17th to mid 20th naval stuff.
The Americans had some primitive naval mine devices at the time of the civil war, and although not a major impact, it had at least some effect close to land etc. The submarine, IIRC, did not.

[Furious Mental]

I've got one- Christian blunderbusses. During an expedition into the Sahara shortly before the game commences the Moorish army included a small contingent of captured Christian marines armed with blunderbusses.

[Freedom Onanist]

I'm still surprised that over the course of many total war games and expansions, the scottish faction has yet to field that most dreaded of missile units - the caber tosser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caber). The sight of hundreds of kilt wearing scotsmen, faces painted blue, carrying this traditional weapon is enough to crush the morale of even the stoutest of foes.

Admittedly the missile attack has a very short range, but any hit is a guaranteed kill. Also horses tend to trip over the used cabers, which is nice.

The scots often used this fearsome weapon with great success during their many conflicts with the english. At the Battle of Bannockburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn), King Edward II was heard to mutter "I hate those scottish tossers".

:laugh4: :laugh4: :clown:



In the meantime we obviously have


Polish winged hussars - they can actually fly
France can get Napoleon as a hero - if deployed everyone else fights like muppets
The Dutch edam hurlers - targets die in a horrible explosion of cheese
Etc, etc...



Of course if some of the Far Eastern countries do get some involvement the floodgates of fantasy can really open!

[ratbarf]

The show was Canadian actually but I watched it sometime ago and some of the details maybe sketchy but I do know that it did scare the crap out of someone and my description is for the most part correct. Also it may not have been the "first" submarine but it was definatley an early one.

By the way I have a head the size of an elephant. (ego)

Also to add to to the list I would like to see tigers with mini gatling guns strapped to them and with little indian boys firing them. Obviously a historical unit that fits with the crazy east theme of CA

[imnothere]

light-mobile cannon unit, drawn by camels instead of horses.

goat mercenary cavalries - ridden by small boys.

family in-laws, now available as a free unit for characters with bad-in-laws trait. reduce income by 10%. -5 authority. count as peasants on battlefield.

random Giant Squid/Man-Eating Whale/Sea Monster spawn. in order to fill in all the empty spaces in the ocean. random attack on shippings(reduce 5% trade) and military vessels.

[Freedom Onanist]

A subversive one could be "Arrogance".

This takes the form of a negatgive influence you can deploy against a nation that thinks itself a bit too big for its boots at any given point in history. This is a transient thing that only last for a set time against a particular opponent.

So, for example:

US colonist can deploy British Arrogance in the 1770's. After gaining laurels in the early and mid 1700's Britain firmly sat on them for a little too long = bloody nose

France can deploy Prussian Arrogance in the 1790's and 1800's. Prussia had clearly declined but thought much of its Frederickan legacy = bloody nose

The British can deploy French Arrogance in the 1800's due to French Napoleonic superiority complex and megalomanic psychopathis(sp?) = bloody nose

Later, maybe out of scope of the game, the Russians can deploy British and French Arrogance in the 1850's. British because of another case of laurel sitting, French because of their inveterate belief in their own cultural propaganda:beam: . Though that is tempered to a large degree by Russian Incompetence, so that one is a draw = bloody noses all round.

[Bijo]

How about Dutch greediness for the Dutch faction? Some unit that has economical capabilities can be used on the field to inspire the troops to greediness, effectivity, maximum efficiency, and he can bark things at them to stimulate them such as "Fight harder! Or you will be disallowed food and beverage after the battle!" or "He who manages to wound two enemies with one shot will receive extra pay!" or "If you die, I shall sell your families' house and greedily profit from it!"

[Azi Tohak]

My best guess is some super-elite rifle unit with ludicrous stats from Kentucky, requiring a whisky guild.

You just know CA is going to make some goofy units for the Indians (both East and West) to play with. But how many indian factions will there be for the Americas? I think the HA of the plains would be great fun to play with... too bad that is a little too late for this game.

Maybe for the expanion pack: The American Civil War

Azi

[Henry707]

Hi All,

Sorry to be so far off topic on my first post but.....

Does anyone remember the 'easter egg' hidden in Rome Total realism - there was a rebel unit of guys holding drumsticks!!!

It's the truth!! :clown: :clown:

Henry

[Noir]

Originally posted by imnothere
random Giant Squid/Man-Eating Whale/Sea Monster spawn. in order to fill in all the empty spaces in the ocean. random attack on shippings(reduce 5% trade) and military vessels.

Kind of engine spawning rebels/brigands in the sea? Brilliant idea - count me in for that one; we cannot allow the ocean to spare us the annoyance.. A little period flavor is needed, Moby Dick, Captain Nemo etc

[hoom]

The Crimson Permanent Assurance has to make an appearance somewhere :pirate2:

[Incongruous]

Foppery. A special ability of British and French agents, they may alter the fashions of the day to that of Foppery. After which army uniforms will be come oh so much nicer and oh so much more expensive.
Thus an enemy economy succumbs to fashion.

[Freedom Onanist]

Foppery. A special ability of British and French agents, they may alter the fashions of the day to that of Foppery. After which army uniforms will be come oh so much nicer and oh so much more expensive.
Thus an enemy economy succumbs to fashion.

Hmmm, I don't think Britain would qualify for that one, they were mostly quite conservative compared to others. I think it would be more to do with how much of a megalomanic absolute ruler you have, and how usless your armies actually are. The more of those, the more extravagant your uniforms and your blathering on about honour, glory, country, etc... Like Elvis said " A little less conversation, a little more action please":laugh4:

I won't mention who I have in mind.

[Incongruous]

Before Pitt's terrible clampdowns during the 1890's, Britain was seen as the most progressive and liberal state in Europe.

[Forward Observer]

What the English in the game will need is a ministry of silly walks, and If they could get John Cleese as a consultant, I'm sure he would recommend it.

As an aside, the elephant cannon units in MTW2 always remind me of something I actually saw depicted at the Smithsonian a few years back. They had one of the older Victorian styled buildings all decked out with actual exhibits from the 1876 Philadelphia centenial Exopsition.

The hall was filled with all this technology that was brand new in 1876 and everything was in mint condition. It was all donated to the Smithonian after the original exposition and had been in storage for over 100 years.

Anyway, among the exhibits of military weapons was a full sized life like statue of a camel with a real gatling gun mounted on it back. It was as laughable as the panzerphants and I wish I had taken a picture of it.

Cheers

[Incongruous]

What the English in the game will need is a ministry of silly walks, and If they could get John Cleese as a consultant, I'm sure he would recommend it.

As an aside, the elephant cannon units in MTW2 always remind me of something I actually saw depicted at the Smithsonian a few years back. They had one of the older Victorian styled buildings all decked out with actual exhibits from the 1876 Philadelphia centenial Exopsition.

The hall was filled with all this technology that was brand new in 1876 and everything was in mint condition. It was all donated to the Smithonian after the original exposition and had been in storage for over 100 years.

Anyway, among the exhibits of military weapons was a full sized life like statue of a camel with a real gatling gun mounted on it back. It was as laughable as the panzerphants and I wish I had taken a picture of it.

Cheers
That, is funny.:yes:

[LegioScythia]

Bear calvary, pretty much awesome if you think about it.

[antisocialmunky]

Bear calvary, pretty much awesome if you think about it.
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/3/e/6/3e621738b7fe09ccb101532a9336f033.jpg

Just incase you haven't seen it yet.

[Galapagos]

Giraffes for ships.They could use their long necks to grab enemy soldiers.Or maybe turtle raiders:turtle: :turtle: :turtle: :turtle:

[icek]

:laugh4: :laugh4: :clown:



In the meantime we obviously have

Polish winged hussars - they can actually fly


dont know if you laught from egsistence of polish winged hussars or the fact they can actually fly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Hussars

[Lord Winter]

Of course with this being the enlightenment we can't miss out on the anarcho-syndicalist peasants! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xd_zkMEgkI) When click they deploy there signiture catch phrases, such as I'm being repressed, Strange woman lying in ponds is no basis for a system in government and other memorable pharses on the battle field they will hightened the morale of other peasents turning them from useless units to semi useless units.

*ingore the fact that king aruther was in the middle ages.

[darkragnar]

The only fantasy units that i can think off and that would actually make it to the game are the Sharp's Rifles with their wee green uniforms and all and some uber american partisan/malitia unit that will own all in ranged combat ( forgetting the fact that the British were much better marksman).

[woad&fangs]

Yankee Pig Dog Militia??? Sweet:2thumbsup:

[HarunTaiwan]

If Winston Churchill worked for CA:

Admiral Jenkins, Royal Navy

Generous with Grog +1 Morale, -1 Accuracy
Sodomite -1 Morale
Liberal with the Lash -1 Morale, +10% speed

another one:

Press Gang Enthusiast -1 Morale

[IvarrWolfsong]

America

Natty Bumpos - an entire unit of Daniel Day Lewis's who run (2x movement points) everywhere screaming "I WILL find you!" and can shoot a musket with 100% accuracy out to 2k yards

Enraged Bostonians - a full stack of crazed militia that spawn anytime you change taxes in New England

Virginia Aristocrats - snuff fueled light cavalry with a penchant for ham

Hessians - Headless Cavalry with heat seeking pumpkins filled with molten lava and Uranium.

[zerathule]

I think its time for a re appearance of the Naked Barbarians and the Screeching womens, both combined in an uber unit : the French Sans-Culottes :) (meaning without panties, at least as a litteral translation. name of the french revolutionary mobs).
Stats : weak morale, vulnerability to projectiles, can charge without orders, bonus versus nobility.

[edyzmedieval]

Tea Ship Attackers - something like the Hounds of Culann, they go berserk when they see tea ships

Chinese portable rocket launchers - This would be damned sweet.

Yeomen Musketeers - I mean come on, we Englishmen want to keep our long range supremacy

The Flying Dutchman - If you capture this ship from the Rebels (it should have something like 200 attack), all your units get +5 experience and you get the ship

[Rodion Romanovich]

I know a fantasy unit: Mel Gibson patriot flag carrier, fights with an American flag as weapon and inspires nearby troops.

[Freedom Onanist]

How about units powered by mysticism? Warrior monks impervious to bullets through the power of their meditation. Ninjas.

Or any other feng shui inspired units?



icek - dont know if you laught from egsistence of polish winged hussars or the fact they can actually fly.
:inquisitive: Oh dear. No, i wasn't laughing at their existence just suggesting that they are ripe for fantasy. Just the kind of unit that sounds "cool", looks a bit "cool" that will inspire the ignorant invest them with all kinds of semi mythical abilities. As opposed to maybe seeing them as largely anachronistic and very niche in their full "winged" glory by the 18th cent.

[Abokasee]

Super Ninja cats, that fire lazas from there eyes when they take out 2 regiements they can shoop da whoop, theres about 15 in each group

[Sir Beane]

Hail everyone! First time poster but longtime lurker here. :2thumbsup:

As for fantasy units I'm looking forward to seeing some sort of battlefield voodoo priest recruited in the Caribbean. Special ability would be raising casualties from the dead as zombies ready to do your bidding. :skull:

Another Caribbean unit could be for the local rebels. Cannibals: they scare nearby troops and their weapon is a fork and salt shaker. Perhaps they might have the special ability to eat captives rather than execute to get a small boost in morale.

Come on CA we want to see voodoo zombies! (Or at least I do)

Wow for a first post that was rather morbid. :laugh4:

[zerathule]

- dont know if you laught from egsistence of polish winged hussars or the fact they can actually fly.
:inquisitive: Oh dear. No, i wasn't laughing at their existence just suggesting that they are ripe for fantasy. Just the kind of unit that sounds "cool", looks a bit "cool" that will inspire the ignorant invest them with all kinds of semi mythical abilities. As opposed to maybe seeing them as largely anachronistic and very niche in their full "winged" glory by the 18th cent.
New unit :
Polish Inquisitors.
Abilities :
- Can Hide anywhere (so that none may expect them)
- Summon Polish flying main battle tank winged hussar

[Freedom Onanist]

New unit :
Polish Inquisitors.
Abilities :
- Can Hide anywhere (so that none may expect them)
- Summon Polish flying main battle tank winged hussar

Or endlessly questions anyone who they think might question anything Polish - ad nauseam.:dizzy2:

[zerathule]

Or endlessly questions anyone who they think might question anything Polish - ad nauseam.:dizzy2:
Now that you say it ... i concur :sweatdrop:

[Beefy187]

I got one

Japanese Legendary Samurais- Only available as mercs

Once they get in to melee they are invincible. 100 percent bonus against Yanks:yes:

[Mikeus Caesar]

One for France - cheese-eating surrender monkeys. This special unit will prolong a surrender so as to give France time to change all the banners on its units to those of an invading nation.

[Lord Winter]

Tea Ship Attackers - something like the Hounds of Culann, they go berserk when they see tea ships

:laugh4:

[Boyar Son]

King George III

insists on following his directions when dealing with rebels

Nepoleon- able to lose big battles and still come back as leader of faction

[skuzzy]

Time traveling dragon mounted viking air raids for the Lair faction

[Matt_Lane]

The 3rd Foot & Mouth, feared through out the Kyber Pass for what lurks beneath their kilts.

[Freedom Onanist]

One for France - cheese-eating surrender monkeys. This special unit will prolong a surrender so as to give France time to change all the banners on its units to those of an invading nation.:thumbsdown: Ah, yes, I remember that one. That's the one that makes all those British victories meaningless and those who won them muppets. Makes you wonder why they bothered calling a train station "Waterloo" doesn't it?:wall:

[Abokasee]

Zerglings

Need I say more

[Flavius Clemens]

One for France - cheese-eating surrender monkeys.

Which does of course mean that Britain has to have Monkey Hangers, only recruitable in north east England, render French naval units inoperative with incredulous laughter...

[Freedom Onanist]

Which does of course mean that Britain has to have Monkey Hangers, only recruitable in north east England, render French naval units inoperative with incredulous laughter...Why, he was a spy man!

[Tiberius of the Drake]

grenadiers, which did exist, but they actually will use the grenades and have ridiculously long range attack and will be taken seriously in their silly hats.

[General_Someone]

grenadiers, which did exist, but they actually will use the grenades and have ridiculously long range attack and will be taken seriously in their silly hats.

Or they'll be given grenade launchers and bullet proof vest!, and silly hats.~D

[Sheogorath]

grenadiers, which did exist, but they actually will use the grenades and have ridiculously long range attack and will be taken seriously in their silly hats.
Early grenadiers DID use grenades...and some did up until the Napoleonic Wars. They looked like stereotypical cartoon bombs and tended to explode while you were holding them.
The reason Grenadier units selected tall and strong men was 'cause they needed the extra height and strength to chuck those grenades, which were quite heavy. I think some weighed eight or nine pounds, if I remember.

I imagine fantasy units will be on the lines of things like the Tsar Cannon, which is this lovely three-foot bore diameter cannon in Russia that was never actually used.
I imagine we'll see 'native mercenaries' in America, as if the Spanish would recruit feather-wearing Aztecs into their armies in the 1700's.
Stuff like that, really.

[Kobal2fr]

I'm still surprised that over the course of many total war games and expansions, the scottish faction has yet to field that most dreaded of missile units - the caber tosser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caber). The sight of hundreds of kilt wearing scotsmen, faces painted blue, carrying this traditional weapon is enough to crush the morale of even the stoutest of foes.

Admittedly the missile attack has a very short range, but any hit is a guaranteed kill. Also horses tend to trip over the used cabers, which is nice.

The scots often used this fearsome weapon with great success during their many conflicts with the english. At the Battle of Bannockburn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bannockburn), King Edward II was heard to mutter "I hate those scottish tossers".

Thank you, that made my night :laugh4:

Also, and obviously : the French Imperial Guard, a musketeer unit which can't shoot unless shot at first. "Messieurs les anglais, tirez les premiers !".

Or maybe Battle Guillotines, anyone ? :)

[Intrepid Sidekick]

:clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown:

Wow, cool, amazing!!
We've been trawling through all those big dull history books :book: and that internet thingy :lam: :google:
But this has just saved us loooooooads of time.:idea2:
Think we'll use all of these:2thumbsup:
:clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown:

[Sheogorath]

oh u

Do us a favor and include these guys:
https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2860/bearcavalrypx0.jpg

Russia just isnt complete without BEAR CAVALRY

[Intrepid Sidekick]

:dizzy2: Hmmm, okay, if you say they're from the period. I didnt know they had AK47's back then.:clown:

[Thamis]

Sasquatch Beserkers.

They're definitely in! :clown:

[Rhyfelwyr]

Armoured Air Balloons - I remember seing a hot-air balloon in Cossacks once, so I expect to see armoured bomb-dropping hot-air balloons. They will feature much like Kirovs in Red Alert 2.

Sami Riflemen - because they were such a warlike people ever since they fought with their great axes in medieval times. Perhaps also a Berserker unit to complement these?

Turtle Ships - don't know much about them, but if you include the Far East maybe these should really be included.

Flamethrowers - the natural evolvement of greek fire units, used to force infantry out of garrisoned buildings.

War Elephants - come in several forms, including cannons, riflemen, flamethrowers, and saboteur (barrels of gunpowder strapped to them). Obviously Mughal commanders will ride elephants, and will be able to call an Armoured Air Balloon strike from atop them.

[Sheogorath]

:dizzy2: Hmmm, okay, if you say they're from the period. I didnt know they had AK47's back then.:clown:
Ak-47's AND PPsH 41's. See, the 47/41 was refering to FOURTEEN fourtyseven/fourtyone.
BEAR CAVALRY! Also, penguin infantry to the first person to discover the south pole.

[Privateerkev]

We've been trawling through all those big dull history books

Funny because I can't tell from playing your games... :wink:

But in all seriousness, as a history grad student, I would love to get a look at the reading list that is used to research these games.

And to keep the thread on topic, any large piece of artillery mounted on any animal would be more than enough to keep me amused for hours.

Exploding sheep would be cool too. Why should people who play the "Worms" games have all the fun? :clown:

[Andejar]

Where did u get the picture of the bear cav?

[Sheogorath]

Where did u get the picture of the bear cav?
The internet.

[Frederick the Great]

I think you lot have been spending to much time reading Whitedwarf mags or in Gamesworkshops.CA and their TW games are about historical acccuracy.
Ninja's did exist in Japanese history,Assassin's did exist worldwide and in the far east there were cult's or assassin organisations.So please CA keep it historical as it was in the past and no or ni to fantasy units......no killer white rabbit's with ferocious teeth......no knight's who say Ni,Ni,Ni......and no black knight itching for a fight "it's only a flesh wound.....come back ya coward".
Oh and by the way there were battalion guns....3pdrs or small howitzers which were manhandled by small crews.
No silly billy's Please!!!:dizzy2:

[Frederick the Great]

HA HA HA I like the mounted russians on bears......good pic,but I've never seen bears That Big.
Well mentioned Sheogorath on the grenadiers of the period hurling grenades.
Anyone wanting to see this goto YOU TUBE website where you can watch the video on the Battle of Poltava

[Sheogorath]

Polar and several species of Brown Bears can get up to eight feet at the shoulder.

A few moments on Google yields this:
http://tim.blogware.com/Bear/Bear.jpg
Bears get BIG.

Just a warning:
There is some blood in that pic, but no more than you'd see in a boxing match.

And you should mention that that video is horrendously innacurate. Like I said in the topic where it was posted...very much a product of the Russian nationalist cinema.

[Privateerkev]

CA and their TW games are about historical acccuracy.

The idea that TW games are in any way historically accurate is simply laughable.

But to be fair, their games are not meant to be historically accurate. Which is why I always roll my eyes when people complain about units not being "period" such as hornet chuckers or flame throwers. TW games are meant to be fun. And in that, they succeed. I play computer games for the same reason I watch movies, and that is to be entertained. I don't do either to learn about history. For that, I read a book. And even that is problematic.

[Cyclops]

Headless Hessian Cav the best so far.

18th century fantasy units I'd like to see:

British wagon-mounted rocket units. I know they had the Congreves, but IIRC they were late, ineffective experimental units. My ideal rocket unit would be a war-winning uber-weapon with unparrallelled range and accuracy. Also when you win an Heroic victory it would discharge its final round into a glorious fireworks display.

Hungarian Vampire Insurrectio. Cause fear and increase in strength as the opposition loses men. Unfortunate penalties for non-night-time battles.

Turkish Camel-mounted Eunuch artillery: extremely ineffective, constantly firing blanks. Causes sympathy and wincing in onlookers, and able to ride long distances without apparent soreness.

French Colonial "Wolf-Brother" Native American Ninjas. Combat bonus vs yokels and

Lions disguised (really badly disguised too) with wickerwork frames to resemble a giant wolf : of course this "Disguised Lion" unit will appear as a rebel in certain southern French provinces)

Late period Bartix irregulars (sorry, EB gag).

Napoleonic Old Guard with a "Grumble" button that does nothing really, just activates a sound effect that makes them say "Merde" "sacre bleue" and "Oh, like, Magnifique....not!" in a really sarcastic tone.

18th century fantasy I expect to see:

American soldiers that can beat British regulars without French help.

Really big cheap Russian infantry units that stand around waiting for their opponents to freeze to death.

Unbreakable Redcoats (vulnerable to Americans only)

Horse artillery that fires on the move.

[Sheogorath]

The Russians had more of a reputation as 'unbreakable' than the British, really. The Redcoats were SOFT compared to the Ruskies.

Horse artillery that fires on the move...kinda like the Panzerphants?

[Cyclops]

The Russians had more of a reputation as 'unbreakable' than the British, really. The Redcoats were SOFT compared to the Ruskies.

Yes that was what the French noticed at Borodino etc, but the myth about Russian forces in many eras is they were basically peasants herded into line to be shot down until the enemy ran out of bullets and then froze.

Its true at times this was the Russian approach, but not vs Napoleon when they fought extremely bravely and took a lot of killing.


Horse artillery that fires on the move...kinda like the Panzerphants?

More like chariot mounted ballistae, but yeah, you get the picture.

[Cyclops]

The internet.

Could you print the internet for me so I can browse it later?:book:

[Sheogorath]

Yes that was what the French noticed at Borodino etc, but the myth about Russian forces in many eras is they were basically peasants herded into line to be shot down until the enemy ran out of bullets and then froze.

Its true at times this was the Russian approach, but not vs Napoleon when they fought extremely bravely and took a lot of killing.



More like chariot mounted ballistae, but yeah, you get the picture.

I've heard them described more as 'Too stupid to run away' than that. Which is kinda true. Russia probably had the worst officer corps in Europe.
Oh! Theres a good fantasy unit. The Russian Flamethrower. Its a swarm of drunken Russian officers with matches. They run up to enemy units and spit/breath on them, then set them all on fire.

[Cyclops]

I've heard them described more as 'Too stupid to run away' than that. Which is kinda true. Russia probably had the worst officer corps in Europe.

I think the Russians were the only opponent that regularly faced the Grand Armee and didn't run like rabbits. Dunno if the officer corps was inept, arguably they were the best outside France, although they were definitely alcoholic. Apparently at 5 pm during the battle of Borodino Kutusov was doing vodka shots with his boys at HQ.


Oh! Theres a good fantasy unit. The Russian Flamethrower. Its a swarm of drunken Russian officers with matches. They run up to enemy units and spit/breath on them, then set them all on fire.

I think thats a bit unrealistic. Surely they would use didgeridoos as a delivery system to give a bit more range to their flaming breath?

[Sheogorath]

Hey, Kutusov is a special case. Alcahol fueled his creative proccesses!
But yeah, Russia was most famous for its artillery. Russian gunners were widely regarded as the best out there, and Russian artillery was some of the best in the world until the Austrians suprassed them some time in the 1830/40's. Their gunners were famous for almost never abandoning a gun for the enemy, and fighting to the death to defend their pieces.
In fact, the artillery was regarded, in Russia, as the 'aristocratic' branch of the army. Young nobles went into the artillery, unlike the rest of Europe where they became cavalry officers. Too bad THAT ended up biting the Russians in the butt when they tried to update their artillery and none of the dandy officers wanted to learn how to work the newfangled guns.

From what I've seen, their cavalry was regarded as fairly average, although it DID defeat the French cavalry on several occasions.

Their infantry is generally the subject of a lot of speculation. Napoleon, as I said, seems to have been a bit of a Russophile. He's been quoted as saying that if the Russians could give their infantry the 'electric enthusiasm' of the French soldiers then they wouldnt have had any problem taking over Europe. But the problem was that Russian infantry were basically battlefield robots. They cold stand in a line and take fire like nobody and were adequate musketeers (although the Russians didnt bother training their men to AIM, which cost them once rifles became common). They excelled at close-in fighting, and their Grenadiers were probably some of the most feared in Europe, right up there with the Old Guard.

But their offers were widely regarded as the worst in Europe, unless you count the Ottomans as European. They were drunks, and tended to follow the same line as their men in their total lack of flexibility.
Of course, their good officers tended to be VERY good, possibly to make up for all the bad ones.

Regardless of how good they were, Russia probably DID have the most expensive army in Europe. They favored parade ground pomp over actual military skill prior to Napoleons invasion, and paid for it initially. Then, as per usual, they figured out what was going on and kicked ass all the way to Berli-...I mean Paris.

Look at me, I'm rambling! Ramble ramble ramble!

[Freedom Onanist]

Hey, Kutusov is a special case. Alcahol fueled his creative proccesses!
But yeah, Russia was most famous for its artillery. Russian gunners were widely regarded as the best out there, and Russian artillery was some of the best in the world until the Austrians suprassed them some time in the 1830/40's. Their gunners were famous for almost never abandoning a gun for the enemy, and fighting to the death to defend their pieces.
In fact, the artillery was regarded, in Russia, as the 'aristocratic' branch of the army. Young nobles went into the artillery, unlike the rest of Europe where they became cavalry officers. Too bad THAT ended up biting the Russians in the butt when they tried to update their artillery and none of the dandy officers wanted to learn how to work the newfangled guns.

From what I've seen, their cavalry was regarded as fairly average, although it DID defeat the French cavalry on several occasions.

Their infantry is generally the subject of a lot of speculation. Napoleon, as I said, seems to have been a bit of a Russophile. He's been quoted as saying that if the Russians could give their infantry the 'electric enthusiasm' of the French soldiers then they wouldnt have had any problem taking over Europe. But the problem was that Russian infantry were basically battlefield robots. They cold stand in a line and take fire like nobody and were adequate musketeers (although the Russians didnt bother training their men to AIM, which cost them once rifles became common). They excelled at close-in fighting, and their Grenadiers were probably some of the most feared in Europe, right up there with the Old Guard.

But their offers were widely regarded as the worst in Europe, unless you count the Ottomans as European. They were drunks, and tended to follow the same line as their men in their total lack of flexibility.
Of course, their good officers tended to be VERY good, possibly to make up for all the bad ones.

Regardless of how good they were, Russia probably DID have the most expensive army in Europe. They favored parade ground pomp over actual military skill prior to Napoleons invasion, and paid for it initially. Then, as per usual, they figured out what was going on and kicked ass all the way to Berli-...I mean Paris.

Look at me, I'm rambling! Ramble ramble ramble!Yes, or you could just have the real Russian winners:

Distance - Captain Middle of Nowhere

And of course

Weather - General Rainy Snow

You could also recruit Major Crap Infrastructure. That way invaders who have invested in their own countries will be completely flumoxed by how to operate in a country where nothing works.

Let's not forget, Sergeant I couldn't care a less about my men

[Sheogorath]

Actually, the Winter of 1812 wasnt that bad. The climate around and south of Moscow in Russia is fairly mild. They grow a lot of grain and such there, so it certainly cant be too hostile. If you look at a chart of the French casualties compared to the temperature, the French loses actually go UP with the temperature.
And Summer in Russia is often regarded as just as, if not more, brutal than winter. For its heat. The French and Germans both commented about how the ground would crack because it was so dry.

Distance certainly is a major factor. However, the infrastructure wasnt THAT bad. Except in Spring, when everything turns into knee-deep mud, but thats a problem for everybody. You cant really 'adapt' to knee-deep mud except to be used to it. Even then, you cant exactly march in the stuff.
But yeah...its kinda hard to have crappy infrastructure in an era when trains were an eccentric curiosity in the UK and most everybody traveled via dirt roads and the idea of machinery is limited to basics like weaving machines.

As to their NCO's...they really werent any more or less caring than anybody elses NCO's. Some of them were bastards, but most Russian NCO's were selected for seniority within their unit, which generally meant they were experienced men who actually DID care about their own men.

See, stereotyping really doesnt get you anywhere, does it?

[Freedom Onanist]

Actually, the Winter of 1812 wasnt that bad. The climate around and south of Moscow in Russia is fairly mild. They grow a lot of grain and such there, so it certainly cant be too hostile. If you look at a chart of the French casualties compared to the temperature, the French loses actually go UP with the temperature.
And Summer in Russia is often regarded as just as, if not more, brutal than winter. For its heat. The French and Germans both commented about how the ground would crack because it was so dry.

Distance certainly is a major factor. However, the infrastructure wasnt THAT bad. Except in Spring, when everything turns into knee-deep mud, but thats a problem for everybody. You cant really 'adapt' to knee-deep mud except to be used to it. Even then, you cant exactly march in the stuff.
But yeah...its kinda hard to have crappy infrastructure in an era when trains were an eccentric curiosity in the UK and most everybody traveled via dirt roads and the idea of machinery is limited to basics like weaving machines.

As to their NCO's...they really werent any more or less caring than anybody elses NCO's. Some of them were bastards, but most Russian NCO's were selected for seniority within their unit, which generally meant they were experienced men who actually DID care about their own men.

See, stereotyping really doesnt get you anywhere, does it?

Strange I always understood the retreat from Moscow to be renowned in French history as particularly horrific - due to the weather.

I do believe the infrastructure was worse than in many places (in Western Europe). Not a reflection on Russian road maintenance just based on the distances involved and the relative pverty of the areas between major towns.

I admit to stereotyping the seargent bit. Though, on a modern note, my brother married a Russian lady with a son who came over with her. He's just carried out his military service - not a happy chappy at all. He has some pretty harsh words for Russian NCO's in particular. From what he says bullying, violence, alcohol and incompetence are rife. A situation that has been endemic and traditional in the Russian forces according to him. Taking historic revisionism too far ain't that clever either.

[Sheogorath]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Winter

Specifically:

According to an American military study, the main body of Napoleon's Grande Armée, initially at least 378,000 strong, "diminished by half during the first eight weeks of his invasion, before the major battle of the campaign.
and

According to the meteorological records, the 1812-1813 winter was milder than usual.
Borodino took place in September.
French casualties were more due to the Russian use of scorched earth tactics and Cossacks than weather, although the climate probably played a part.

The Russians maintained their main roads fairly well, yes, some of the less important ones may've fallen into disrepair, but the ones that invaders typically used would've been in quite fine condition (Except, as mentioned, during spring, when ALL the roads turned into mud.) After all, trade was just as important to the Russians as anybody else,and the Russians tended to rely more on trade via land than via sea, for obvious reasons.

The modern corruption of Russian NCO's has more to do with the late/post-Soviet government corruption and simple lack of caring.
I'd say those NCO's better shape up soon, or Putin's going to have them lined up in Red Square for some free cigarettes.

[Csargo]

oh u

Do us a favor and include these guys:
https://img231.imageshack.us/img231/2860/bearcavalrypx0.jpg

Russia just isnt complete without BEAR CAVALRY

https://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8680/1191708161643vc9.jpg

[Jacob Debroedere]

What about the three musketeers? Their unit size is limited to three, the have an awesome range attack and wen engaged in melee they will use their sabres to mow down any resistance. They are almost impossible to kill without artillery because you need to kill them all to kill one.

[Axel JD]

Skiing riflemen, Norwegian/Swiss mercenary unit. Or Sami raindeer riders, resplendent in their red and blue outfits and silly hats, waving handicraft knives.

[Sheogorath]

Skiing riflemen, Norwegian/Swiss mercenary unit. Or Sami raindeer riders, resplendent in their red and blue outfits and silly hats, waving handicraft knives.
Which can be upgraded to the infamous 'Rabid Sami Reindeer Riders', with both rider and mount foaming at the mouth and biting everything that comes within reach.

[Axel JD]

Which can be upgraded to the infamous 'Rabid Sami Reindeer Riders', with both rider and mount foaming at the mouth and biting everything that comes within reach.

By God man! What a great idea! Incidentally, just now I saw a film which included an evil Sami trying to push a guy over a cliff.

Btw. remember the War Dogs in RTW? How about War Crocodiles - they would be able to swim and infiltrate settlements through the sewers and lay in ambush at river crossings.

[Sheogorath]

By God man! What a great idea! Incidentally, just now I saw a film which included an evil Sami trying to push a guy over a cliff.

Btw. remember the War Dogs in RTW? How about War Crocodiles - they would be able to swim and infiltrate settlements through the sewers and lay in ambush at river crossings.
How about Cannonagators? Alligators mounting cannons. Even better.

[Bijo]

Terminator (T-800) who comes from the far future through a portal. You could also choose to get T-1000 who will be quick on his feet as he can shapeshift.

[russveld]

A un killable unit given to the most awsome fation. My theory is that it will be man-bear-pig.:2cents:

[Barbarian]

The only unit capable of attacking square formations of infantry:

https://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9729/poodlerv2.jpg

[Aldaris]

Chosen men. Riflemen who shoot accurately up to 500 yards, do not fix swords when cavalry charges, but instead club the silly buggers out of the saddle with their rifle butts, are lead by an officer who chops up pretty much everything in hand-to-hand and they all reload extremely fast. And if they are not fast enough, they can spit the bullets instead. But only up to a distance of 150 yards.

[Freedom Onanist]

Chosen men.....they can spit the bullets instead. But only up to a distance of 150 yards. A variant would be Thai ladies (or lady-boys) shooting ping-pong balls out of their fundamentals. Deadly accurate at anything up to 200 yards.

No fantasy - I've seen them do it!!!:dizzy2:

[Abokasee]

A variant would be Thai ladies (or lady-boys) shooting ping-pong balls out of their fundamentals. Deadly accurate at anything up to 200 yards.

No fantasy - I've seen them do it!!!:dizzy2:

Youtube?

You could have Russian Joker, a retuine member who give 5+ command when fighting prussians due to the pun

[Fisherking]

I like the cat snipers! But more in line with the times in the game:

Germans: Baron Von Münchhausen

Brits: H. Hornblower, The Scarlet Pimpernel, Mr. Norrell & Jonathan Strange

Amis: Mel Gibson’s Patriot

I am sure someone can add to the list…

[Barbarian]

300 spartans, who work the same as chosen men, but they can reload their muskets 60 times a minute and hit three enemies with each shot.

About the defence: cannon shot is required to kill one of them, because each of them can withstand 15 standard musket shots.

[Dayve]

I'd rather speculate on which folder i have to edit to remove them as quickly as possible, just like i did with Rome.

[Bijo]

Elvis would make a good fantasy war unit.

[Aldaris]

Galloper Guns. Cannons equipped with four steam-powered legs that allow them to gallop into action on their own.

[Viking]

At one point, the swedish army supposedly experimented with elk-riding cavalry. It failed because the animals are not trainable like horses. I predict that the Swedish faction will have such a unit.



I really hope the elk cavalry gets included. :laugh4:

[Rhyfelwyr]

I really hope the elk cavalry gets included. :laugh4:

With cannons...:idea2:

[Vladimir]

How about an aquatic camel unit? They would be a great way to humble those proud Spanish galleys.

[Bijo]

I still want a Terminator unit that travels from the future into the past.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Elephants with ski's with spikes on the front, and have cannons and rocket launchers on their back, with an extended platform to make room for some elks and camels to prevent boarding, and with gattling guns hanging off each side of the platform, above which riders throw flaming pigs onto the enemies.