Britannia Campaign: Ireland

[frogbeastegg]

This topic is for the Irish faction in Kingdoms expansion's Britannia campaign.

[Antagonist]

Some limited impressions with this faction:

Overview
Ireland has a weak starting position, controlling 4 provinces spread throughout the island, and not geographically contiguous. However, with decisive early action this can be resolved, and once the island of Ireland is entirely in your control you will have a prosperous and relatively safe (AI invasions of Ireland seem rare (un)fortunately) base with which to prepare an invasion of Britain.

Unit Roster
One of the most unique factions in Kingdoms, Ireland's roster can appear quite weak at first glance, especially in the early game. The traditional combination of spearmen, archers and cavalry is made problematic because Ireland has only 1 of the first 2 unit types, both of which are basic units. The spearmen (Cliathaire) in particular are also only available in towns, so if you have a lot of castles you might not even notice them. Fortunately they make up for this deficiency in their excellent melee infantry and particular in cavalry. It's really only in the late game that this faction comes into it's own however, with powerful cavalry such as the Lord's Retinue, and in particular Mounted Calivermen, which I would go so far as to call the most effective unit in Britannia.

Starting Position
Ireland start with 4 provinces in Ireland, out of 8. The other 4 are in English hands. The immediate issue is that your lands are not all together and are, in fact, isolated from each other: You hold 2 cities, Cork and Tipperary, in the South, and 2 castles, Lifford and Downpatrick, in the North. England holds the entire middle third of the island, as well as the Northern city of Derry, and their holdings are better developed. They also control most of the strategic forts dotted around. The good news, however, is that England most definately cannot afford to concentrate on Ireland to a great degree, and is likely to advance only slowly, giving you time to react and build up your forces. Perhaps the most significant problem is the makeup of your holdings: Cities only in the south, and castles only in the North. Since cities in particular provide rather weak troops in the early game, gaining control of the castle of Athenry (west) should be a priority. As you progress, you may want to think about converting some castles to towns or vice versa, particularly in order to cultivate strong trade links (through cities on the east coast) with British factions.

Diplomacy
You start at war with England, and since your victory conditions depend on holding all English territory in Ireland you are likely to remain so. Once they have been driven out of Ireland you might consider peace, but particularly court whoever controls the western coast of Britain, hopefully giving you some turns of peaceful trading to bring in the cash while preparing to strike.

Special Features
Ireland's special character is the starting leader, Brian O'Connor, but aside from a unique apperance and a trait giving him a moderate command and influence bonus, there isn't that much special about him. There are no special rebellion events or emergent situations for this faction.

The Campaign
Playing with Long Rules in particular, large scale campaigns are called for, but I have found it very difficult to blitz and make large gains early on, particularly when it comes to moving over to Britain. The main reason is that you will find it difficult to create large armies while there will be many in England and Scotland, and your early game units are generally weaker than those of your rivals. Coupled with the isolated nature of the lands, turtling is a tempting strategy and the one I initially held to. However, unless you are very canny with your trade and finances you will find it difficult to finance progress from the 8 factions in Ireland alone, and leave things too long and you may run out of time. I had success concentrating on Scotland, I tried to keep on the good side of Wales (who controlled most of Britain) and reaped the financial rewards in trade, while slowly expanding in Scotland, and concentrating money on building up a few settlements to unlock the powerful late-game units (Calivermen in cities, Muire, Lord's Retinue and Mounted Calivers in castles) with which you can really dominate militarily.

Antagonist

[Malkut]

One minor observation to help people get started: England's hold on the center of your island is not as strong as it first appears. The culture there is still very strongly Irish, held in check by the local lords. A few assassinations are all it would take to get every single one of those lands to rise up in rebellion.

Also, one of your best heavy infantry units can be hired as mercenaries right from the start. Take advantage of that.

[Dysmal]

A quick note on this faction : Although you are spread out, and your units are weak, you can easily kick the English off the island if you use all your starting money for troops alone. I build 0 buildings and just trained as much as I could and drowned the English in army after army and took over the island early on. By turn 10 I had a unified Ireland, and alot of money in the bank to consolidate with. Where you go from there is up to you.

[grapedog]

Englands hold on Ireland is weak in the game, so that can be exploited early. I usually leave Trim and Lifford as troop producing castles due to their location, and the rest switched to cities.

You're first few missions will be taking the Isle of Islay which should be rebel controlled...then Dunfgtrdst or whatever it's called. If you can get to it early, taking the English Barons mission might prove useful. I've done it twice now in the later game, and about 3 turns after I gift them the city an English assassin comes along and murders the one guy and it goes rebel. I've yet to see what they do for me, so I don't know how useful they ultimately will be.

I carved a swatch right through the middle of england taking Lancaster and points East as well as Caernvaorn. They still have a couple of cities in the north, and depending on when you do it you can find King Edward trapsing around Scotland leaving him home available for picking through. I had him assassinated, which was very enjoyable.

Very few of the english castles/towns were well defended, they seem to move a lot of troops around. I've only ran into one or two tough fights in 50+ turns.

I've decided to take and hold Northern England for now, and bring my catholocism with me....see how they like that for a change.

Edward returns from the crusades, William Wallace rallies the Scots, Norway has that one guy with the Navy....I don't think Ireland has anything special except good music.

England seems easy prey with wide open areas, and largely un-defended once you break into the south. Landing a force in southern england near Caernavorn can really cause some havoc.

[Spajus]

Playing on vh/vh

I managed to take hold of the entire Island by turn 7ish (wa, but a little luck seemed to be involved, as well as a large stack of English wandering round.

Decisive and quick victories were to be had in Derry and Athenry (I was able to cobble together a force from Cork and Tipperary to seige Athenry in the first few turns, and then grow the force to a size sufficient to achieve a victory.

Careful and slow assaults on the cities were required to keep the casualties down.

The Army from Derry Moved down towards Trim, via Downpatrick, where it picked up reinforcements - Dublin had rebelled, and was a simple enough matter to sort out once Trim was down.

I was a little lucky, because England seemed pre-programmed to flee Ireland when things went south?. It had a full stack led by a family member, which I expected to cause me a huge headache - instead, they hopped on a ship and left. :laugh4:

Next move is going to be establishing a base of operations in Northern Wales, I think. I Need to expand more, but i'm surprised about the lack of invasion to date - thought the Scots and the Vikings would prefer picking on me, rather than tearing into the much stronger looking English...

[Robespierre]

What about the tech tree? is this like BI, with factions like the irish that have strong units having no ability to tech up and control keep a lid on big towns, build roads, etc.? are the Britannia Irish like the Lombards, powerful units/ backward tech tree?

[Monsieur Alphonse]

What about the tech tree? is this like BI, with factions like the irish that have strong units having no ability to tech up and control keep a lid on big towns, build roads, etc.? are the Britannia Irish like the Lombards, powerful units/ backward tech tree?

No. The Irish can tech up like all the other factions.

[Antagonist]

I'm pretty sure the Britannia campaign doesn't change the tech-tree at all actually. The only difference for any faction is that religion is now culture, so that cathedrals etc. have a somewhat different purpose (although they're still called cathedrals)

Antagonist

[IrishArmenian]

In fact, the Irish have some of the best technology in the game.
I love mounted Calivermen!

[Sheogorath]

On a side note...your basic unit, the C-guys, with the axes, is actually pretty decent despite its horrible stats. They've got good morale and can, interestingly enough, chew through pretty much any infantry on Ireland except the DFK's that you see here and there.

[TheLastPrivate]

Just finished the long campaign, and I am surprised that it was one of the best campaign's I've had so far. Had lazy douchebags to 10 star 10 management generals, gorgons to angels.
But best of all, the Irish roster, once teched up, is diverse like no other.

Also cavelierman perform better than any other gunpowder infantry (and I try to use them whenever I can despite their ineffectiveness) other than their short range.

Mounted caveliers never seem to run out of ammo compared to dragoons/camel gunners, and Lords retinue is one of the best heavy cavalry in the isles.. and 2hp heavy infantry are great for seiges and manuverability.

And since the factions in Britannia are all so close yet so diverse in core army build, different mixes of everything was used... and that was truely fun. If any of you has not yet tried the Irish campaign because of unfamiliarity (i know potato famine and thats it), you coudln't be missing out more.

[Fianna]

I found the spies I started with to be horribly ineffective. Their chance of success to infiltrate hovered in the 50% range.

I suppose at that start point of the game, economics be damned. The English need to be driven off the island.

[MidevalLoRd]

hello everyone, I was just wondering why no one has added ireland to the main campaing map in mtw2 ( not kingdoms ). Is there anyone out there that could add Ireland to the main campaing in m2tw. I think all you would need to do is add two prvovences in Ireland and add units and some of the sounds from kingdoms, right?

[Malkut]

hello everyone, I was just wondering why no one has added ireland to the main campaing map in mtw2 ( not kingdoms ). Is there anyone out there that could add Ireland to the main campaing in m2tw. I think all you would need to do is add two prvovences in Ireland and add units and some of the sounds from kingdoms, right?

I'd just like to point out that there is a mod for this: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/medievaliitotalwarkingdoms/mod/21507.html

[cuthach]

I'd just like to point out that there is a mod for this: http://www.strategyinformer.com/pc/medievaliitotalwarkingdoms/mod/21507.html

Thanks Malkut

[Pater Familias]

Another quick point for all the Britannia campaigns: Own the seas. Might seem obvious because it's an island map, but naval supremacy is a flat-out requirement.
For Ireland, all it means is trade and the ability to control who invades whom across the Irish Sea. I love the little animation where the other guy's general goes gurgling to the deep after you sink his ship out from under him.

[darkedone02]

Do anyone know where I can find a nice unit index for the create_unit code?

[Askthepizzaguy]

1. The English can be kicked out of Ireland by turn 6 or sooner, and all Ireland provinces can be in Irish hands by turn 6.

Take Derry, and quickly, then make a straight line down... and take Trim. Dublin usually rebels, especially if you put spies and assassins against it and KO their general. That takes care of the east. The west, Athenry, can be taken with just your southern starting troops alone. Send them immediately north and beseige. Then leave it there. Add garrisons to your southern towns, and recruit mercenaries if you're not sure. If they sally, you win. If they don't sally, take the settlement after a few turns of making them squirm.

2. King Brian can have 10 dread by turn 6.

exterminate Derry, I believe it's called, and execute all English prisoners you capture that don't give you significant cash ransoms. Continue to capture and ransom any English generals because England seems to be loaded, and this gives you an extra 2000 to 3000 gold per turn that you ransom.

Assassinate english captains and generals, over and over, until Brian has 10 dread. This should make the English dogs run and hide in fear.

3. Advanced armies, today!

Turn Tipperary (I think it's called) into a wooden castle. It's the one north of your southernmost province, and it's directly south of athenry. It starts with nice barracks which produce the dreaded Muire unit if a castle. (Muire are Ireland's equivalent of dismounted, heavily armoured knights with like 20 for defense alone.)

Give Trim a barracks upgrade when you capture it to produce Muire.

Have your other castles produce HorseBoys.

1. Have several units of Muire for all armies.
2. Have a large group of HorseBoys on each wing.
3. Gaelic archers Aplenty
4. Gallogliach, and those two-hander swordsmen, hire mercs and recruit heavy infantry.
5. Get catapults and trebuchets.
6. The usual basic axemen.
7. Throw in some English billmen for assaults on forts and town centers, and for flanking.

Your army now has lots of decent archers, (Gaelic) heavy infantry, (Muire) melee infantry, (Axemen) flanking units, (Billmen, two-handers) anti-armour and anti-general units (horseboy javelins), Very decent seige equipment, (Cats and Trebs) and of course, your 10-dread faction leader who begins fairly young, and his heir who can also, very easily, become 10 dread.

Sack Caernarvon and all other Welsh settlements, and carve a swath of destruction from Oxford to Nottingham to London to Canterbury. Use this part of the campaign to train loyal, 20-year old adopted generals into Ultimate Chivalry commanders and Ultimate Dread commanders.

Use spammed cheap troops to keep order. Have a unit that can be produced everywhere that is cheap to maintain and contains a lot of troops be your public order spam. Sack and exterminate wisely.

Castles can be occupied, as they dont experience public order problems. Use Chivalrous generals here. Move your capital to Oxford or Caernarvon or whatever.

Cities can be sacked or exterminated. Large cities, leave them alone and put a bunch of public order units inside as well as your 10-dread generals.

_____________________________


With Ireland, Wales, and Southern England conquered, the English are a pushover to destroy. And by the way, take out the Norwegian Castle Town on your way to Wales, destroying their capital and prince and half their army in one swift kick in the arse.

[TheDruid]

well i dont blitz :juggle2:
i do tend to go for derry immediately though.
while starving them out the English always send reinforcements.
I break off the siege ( and yeah i'm carrying at least one catapult ) and ambush them in the forest always come short just a bit of moving points to attack them, they moved and got ambushed lol.
thats why those spys come in handy.
Using the horseboys to pepper them up front , letting them pass, and archer and catapult them.
all routers are easy exp. for the horsemen.
(bring enough infantry cuz the javelinmen wont hold )
happened twice to me now, great experience and the english severely weakened in ireland,but derry not taken yet. allied with wales and scotland now, diplomat going for barons aliance.
Cant wait to get the calivermen.
The axe militia i dont find that good.
muires and gallo's tend to hold much better.
The archers are crap (in my eyes) too.
Thinking about taking all the isles once ive kicked the english out.

[O'Hea]

I just started an Irish campaign today and really had only one difficult battle in the process of kicking the English out. They start out with some DFK and Armored Sergeants in Trim and Dublin but their other settlements are lightly guarded and your Deisi and Gaels can take anything in them.

Also, after unifying Ireland, as an alternative to turtling you can go after Norway. Castle Town gets you a well-developed castle and an ideal staging ground for your eventual invasion of the mainland, and grabbing as many of the Hebrides and Orkneys as you can lets you keep your family members in the action without sacrificing your advantage of being off the mainland. It'll probably provoke Scotland, but since you'll have such a good buffer against them it'll actually be advantageous for you to let them make the first move.

[whifloscu]

Take that, you sweet thing!