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econ21
09-27-2007, 11:58
[OOC] This thread is for players in the King of the Romans PBM to post in character public deliberations in the Imperial Diet. All out of character debate should be conducted in the OOC thread.

Full sessions of the Diet have two main functions: to elect a Chancellor, who manage the Empire, and to pass Edicts or Charter Amendments that will direct the Chancellor.

The Diet will be chaired by the Kaiser, the Prinz or the Diet Speaker.

Edicts need to be formally proposed as follows:

Edict 14.1 This House directs the Chancellor to occupy province X.

where 14.1 refers to the first proposed edict of the eleventh session of the Diet.

Edicts need two seconders (who should explicitly use the word "second" when supporting a motion) before they can be put to the vote. Where edicts conflict, the one with more votes takes precedence.



*****


A young scribe enters the Diet carrying a new volume to transcribe the proceedings. A frazzled Elberhard winks at the young man, as the scribe turns and then staggers out of the Diet chamber, weighed down by the old volume of proceedings.

Elberhard: Right now where we were?

AussieGiant
09-27-2007, 15:22
Arnold

Glad you asked Elberhard,

Peering at the last page of notes from the royal scribe

Ahh yes...I believe we are up a £$^£ing creek without a paddle!!

Peter's gone bananas and taken a Prussian Army with him...although apparently that's not disobeying any orders given to him by his Duke.

You've got your head so far up the Kaiser arse you can't see the trees from the wood.

Hans is making a mad dash to intercept Peter with little chance of success...

and...

Arnold takes a look at the current poll results on the vote of "no confidence".

...it seems the Kaiser has gone a rodgered the wrong agenda if things are what they seem.

So...all in all, I'd say is a glorious time to be alive in the Holy Roman Empire.

Tamur
09-27-2007, 16:36
*Fritz rises from the slightly empty Franconian bench*

Despite the fact that our house is being torn apart during the current conflict, and if the reports be true about Péter for charging Constantinople...

God bless Péter for having the guts to take on the Byzantines like a man! No matter what happens, his name will live for generations as one who stood up and was counted on the side of justice.

Fritz seats himself and casts a dark glance towards the Swabian bench*

And to those who wish his premature demise... I can only say I hope your wives and lady friends aren't injured as you thrash around in guilty sleep.

OverKnight
09-27-2007, 17:02
Matthias squints at Fritz.

Yes, God bless the man who will attack one of our allies without provocation. God bless the man who might cause German to face German in battle. God bless the man who will destroy what little reputation we have left in Europe.

I hope Peter comes to his senses and realizes that war will end Unification, but will cause a legion of other problems to rise. There's better ways to resolve our impasse than with armed revolt.

Tamur
09-27-2007, 17:22
*Fritz rises and addresses Matthias, holding a large volume in his hand and waving it about as he speaks. Electors can make out the title - 'On the Byzantines and their lies'*

Matthias, have you read what Alexander Luther has written in his books? It is remarkable what a clear sight the man has. At first I was unsure what he was after, stirring up the people in revolt. But now that I've read his works... well, if I were anything but a noble, I would be by his side in an instant.

I believe Péter has taken his words to heart, and has done what any good Christian would do -- seek out the heart of the beast and destroy it.

I am ordering my scribes to make copies of Luther's works to distribute to anyone who wishes to read them. And I sincerely hope every one of you in this room does.

To sneer at Luther is to risk being on the wrong side of a revolution.

econ21
09-27-2007, 17:24
Elberhard: The situation with regard to Franconia's apparent sanctioning of the traitor Peter's army is becoming unbearable.

I call upon the Duke of Franconia to publicly repudiate that army. I ask him to make it clear that it is no longer a Franconian Household Army but a rebel one.

If he does not make that declaration within 24 hours, there will be consequences.

Stig
09-27-2007, 17:36
Ansehelm:
If that's no Household Army I give you 24 hours to replace it.
In fact it has gone of the Household Army status the minute it left Franconia, as Household Armies are not meant to do these things.
Ofcourse I do not agree with Peter's actions ... he could have atleast told me about it, so I could have said no and he could have properly deserted. It's the Chancellors responsibility to see to the movement of armies, not mine.

econ21
09-27-2007, 17:43
Elberhard: Thank you, Duke Ansehelm. The traitor Peter's army will no longer be referred to as the Prussian Household Army.

In its stead, Duke Ansehelm, I offer you your Teutonic Crusade Army to act as your second Household Army. Is that acceptable to you, my Lord?

Stig
09-27-2007, 17:47
Ansehelm:
It needs to be well reinforced, and next to that it needs new and different regiments. Light Cavalry is fine on the plains of Russia but they're no use to me near Thorn, I would prefer to replace them with artillery.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 17:53
Has anyone considered cutting off funding to Peter's rogue army? If we have now confirmed that the whole army has mutinied, then why are we still paying for it? This might put neighboring settlements at risk to being sacked but why should the Reich keep financing this man's treacherous acts?

OOC: I know this would be hard to do practically but it is a fair thing to bring up IC. Maybe we can claim that Peter needs to do certain things to get enough florins to pay the upkeep of his army. Like stand on trade routes or sack settlements. Or put him in an HRE settlement and just RP that he sacked it. If he doesn't maybe we can have some units leave. Armies like to get paid...

econ21
09-27-2007, 17:57
Elberhard: King Jan, I fear the traitor Peter's army is living off the land and its men likely kept in line by the promise of loot from the great Byzantine capital.

Duke Ansehelm, after watching me poor Arnolds in action, I am also becoming persuaded of the virtues of cannon. I will do me best by your request - if you wish to submit a more shopping list, I'll get me boys on it.

The fall of Krakow means that you and Duke Arnold have several Polish armies trapped between you. After you have destroyed the Russians near Thorn, I propose to have the pair of you catch and eliminate all Polish forces in the area. Duke Arnold may prefer to return to Austria, but if he would consent to stay near Krakow for a while, we can put an end to the Polish threat for a generation.

I do have one condition before turning the Teutonic Crusade into a second Franconian Household Army - the traitor Peter von Kastilien can no longer be heir to the Duchy of Franconia. If you appoint an alternative heir, then I will convert the Teutonic Crusade from an Imperial force into a Franconian one. But God forbid anything should happen to you, I cannot permit two further German armies fall under the command of the traitor.

Stig
09-27-2007, 18:01
Ansehelm:
Peter is no heir, he's my second in command, if anything happens to me he takes over. And I'm not taking any steps untill I talked to him in person.

econ21
09-27-2007, 18:05
Elberhard: Duke, I am confused but it is a simple question: if you were to die, would Peter be Duke of Franconia?

If he would not, everything is fine.

If he would, then I cannot hand over such a significant Imperial resource as the Teutonic Crusade to the House of Franconia.

Given the dubious loyalty of the deserter Tancred and the Lutheran Fritz, I do not insist that you appoint another successor. I rather fear that would be a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire. You may appoint your daughter as your successor, if you like, as you have done in the past.

But I cannot abide the notion of the traitor Peter becoming Duke of Franconia.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 18:06
Leaving Peter as "heir to be Steward of the Ducal throne" basically endorses his actions. If, God forbid, something happens to you, Peter would be "Steward of Franconia" until my nephew comes of age in a few years. I find your refusal to fire him to be most disturbing.

There are other Franconians to choose. Though, I admit, not many. Tancred has gone missing. I am not eligible while I am appointed as King. That just leaves Count Dieter and Count Fritz. Only Count Fritz is in Franconia at the moment. While I may disagree strongly with his religious views, he has remained loyally by your side through all of this.

*edit*

OOC: in the past, he named the Kaiser's daughter as heir with Peter as Steward until she marries. Now, von Kassel is heir with Peter as Steward until he comes of age.

FactionHeir
09-27-2007, 18:12
I do not believe that Fritz would be a much better choice than Peter after his recent statements.

Warmaster Horus
09-27-2007, 18:13
I realize my words may not seem the best for Fritz von Kastilien, but perhaps what Péter needs is an "inside man".

Tamur
09-27-2007, 18:13
*Fritz goes to the doors and opens them, and keeps them open*

Elberhard, Elberhard! Do you hear that? That is the sound of a populace who are ready for change, and Luther has given them a voice! I find it strange that I am the only one who has made significant mention of the words of Alexander Luther, when the people of the Reich are whipped into a frenzy by them.

When the tide that is rising washes over the Reich, Péter will be viewed as a hero, mark my words. His name is already spoken in whispers in the streets with reverence.

It is time this Diet accepted the fact that the sellout to the Byzantines was a huge mistake, that the Kaiser is playing havoc with the stability of the Reich, and that this cannot go on any longer. Time will not stand still for us.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 18:14
Then no "steward" for now. My concern is, if Duke Ansehelm dies today, Peter would be legally empowered to run the House of Franconia until the von Kassel lad comes of age. I ask for the Duke to fire Peter from that Steward position. To do otherwise is to endorse his actions in fact if not in words.

econ21
09-27-2007, 18:14
Elberhard: I am sorry, King Jan, but I cannot accept Fritz as heir to Franconia either. Have you not heard what he has been preaching outside this very Diet? He is blatantly supporting the traitor Peter's plan to sack Constantinople. This is not a matter of religious views, but of rebellion.

I apologise to the Duke of Franconia for taking such an interest in the internal matter of the Franconian succession. But these are extraordinary times and I cannot surrender one of our only three Imperial armies without being sure it will remain steadfast.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 18:17
Steward Elberhard and Duke Hans have a point. I was not aware of Count Fritz's public announcements.

Then I believe there should be no "steward" to Franconia for now. Currently there is one, which is Peter. And he is empowered to take over the Duchy if the Duke dies. And Peter is a traitor. He should be fired. Period.

FactionHeir
09-27-2007, 18:28
I am afraid that this may not be as simple as it sounds.
According to our charter, unless the Duke names an heir, the nearest male relative is to take the Duchy.
As we, or so I believe, do not permit underage Dukes currently, it would be likely that one of the elder Kastilien were to act as Steward automatically.

However, we also have CA 11.1 which may solve cases in which the legitimacy of a claim can be resolved in the diet. However, for this to set in, we need to clarify and justify the point of legitimacy that would be in question.

Even so, this may be made difficult if Duke Ansehelm were to leave a will or one be forged, as we have seen in recent history...

I am afraid we may need to go through legal pains to truly resolve this matter fully.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 18:33
Alright, I see this has been confusing people so I will try to straighten this out.

Earlier, Duke Ansehelm sent a message saying this:

OOC: This post is https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1664410&postcount=362


Meine Herren of the Diet, I hereby wish to make a simple note. From this moment on Gersenda von Kastillien to be my heir. She holds the future of Franconia, note some middle aged nobleman like most of us. Would I die before she marries my brother Peter will act as Steward, as he normally would.

This made the Kaiser's eldest daughter heir. Which means that who she married would be heir. This also made Peter "Steward" until she married. If Ansehelm died before Gersenda married, Peter would be "Steward" in the same way Steward Mandorf was Steward around 200 years ago. Meaning he would legally have all of the power of a Duke except the ability to name an heir.

Recently, the Kaiser's actions led Duke Ansehelm to change his heir:

OOC: This post is https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1687870&postcount=594


Furthermore my new heir will be Dieter von Kassel, I'd rather have someone who's father prefered Russians, than someone who should know better.

So, the heir changed but not the Steward. Peter is still Steward and that is the problem. Yes he is not heir, but if Duke Ansehelm dies, then he will be "Steward" of House Franconia. So, I believe that Duke Ansehelm should fire Peter from his job as "Steward". That way, there is still an heir but a traitor won't be legally empowered to rule a whole Duchy until the heir comes of age.

Stig
09-27-2007, 18:38
Peter is only steward if I die, which will not happen. Furthermore there is no good alternative, Dieter has never even seen Franconia. How can he rule it?

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 18:39
You could just declare that there is no Steward.

Stig
09-27-2007, 18:40
You could just declare that there is no Steward.
Have you heard what Hans said?

FactionHeir
09-27-2007, 18:40
King Jan,

I mean no disrespect, but even if there is no Steward but only an heir, there will still automatically be a steward until the heir comes of age. In those years, things may happen.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 18:43
No disrespect is taken.

Then he can pull both the Steward and the Heir titles. He can always give those titles out later. We have other Houses without declared Heirs and Stewards.

Stig
09-27-2007, 18:48
Ansehelm:
Which means that would I die everyone can claim the title, deserters and pious lapdogs.
No I'd rather have a little kid as heir.

FactionHeir
09-27-2007, 18:52
I believe that Duke Ansehelm has done all that he can do at this point to prevent Franconia falling into Lutheran or rebel hands.
I would suggest that a meeting be called in the event of his death, which god forbid, to confirm his choice of heir and possibly allow the underage Duke to rule without an acting Steward.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 18:54
Duke Ansehelm,

If by "pious lapdogs", you mean me, then you can rest easy. I can not legally hold either the position of Steward or Heir. And if I could, I would never accept them.

But if you insist on having an under-aged heir, then you need a Steward. And your choices for Steward do not seem good. I am out of the House, Dieter is out of Franconia, Fritz is unacceptable to Elberhard, Tancred is missing, and Peter is going off to attack Constantinople.

Your better off pulling both titles for now.

If you don't you are basically endorsing Peter's actions. And that is a slap in the face to Duke Hans. We are asking Duke Hans to intercept Peter and fight fellow Germans but you don't even have the balls to fire Peter.

Tamur
09-27-2007, 18:57
*Fritz steps away from the doors and back to the Franconian bench*

While I don't agree that Péter is unworthy of the Stewardship, I respect Ansehelm's right to make a decision, and have stated before that I think it wise of him to have appointed a child. That alone should have forestalled all this current bickering.

And to those who doubt my ferocious loyalty to the Reich, may I remind you of the many battles I have fought on its behalf, the many scars I have gained, the many sacrifices I have made to keep it strong. No, the real traitors here are those who would side with Siegfried and give the Reich away to some gold-laden eastern effeminates!

*Fritz looks at Elberhard, a slow triumphal grin on his face, then takes his seat*

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 19:00
So, let me get this straight,

The Diet endorses the pursuit of Peter.

The Diet endorses Duke Hans going into battle with Peter's rogue army.

The Diet endorses a trial for Peter if he is captured.

But the Diet does not endorse firing Peter!?!

Stig
09-27-2007, 19:01
Tancred is not missing, Peter told me that Tancred is with him on his cause.
Sides, a normal General cannot become an heir to a Duchy.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 19:04
Ok, so he is not missing, just a traitor.

Jan addresses the whole Diet,

Gentlemen!

We are asking Germans to fight their fellow Germans!

The least we can do is show that Duke Hans and his army have our full support!

If we do not have the BALLS!!!! to demand the firing of Steward Peter, then none of us are fit to be here!

Warmaster Horus
09-27-2007, 19:48
Fritz, it is not your capacity for battle we doubt, but your loyalty. Loyalty does not have to do with scars gained in battle. I am loyal, yet have not been in service quite long enough to have a record such as yours.

I'll take an example: Caius Julius Caesar, whose name gave the honorific Kaiser, fought the Gallic Wars. He then proceeded to fight against Rome, because of Pompey. It was not a matter of loyalty which brought him to rebel, but one of personnal agenda.
Do you have a personnal agenda?

And, if you believe that we are traitors, we who would try to find a peaceful enough solution to all our problems, problems which keep increasing in number and difficulty by the minute, then you are wrong. Have you heard of the "vote of no confidence" Matthias put in place? Have you seen the preliminary results? I believe they say "No" in majority.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 19:54
The King storms into the Diet holding a ream of reports,

This is an outrage!!!

The King violently throws them across his table where they scatter about.

I have reports that crowds are destroying churches!!! The cathedral in Genoa is gone! The chapel in Acre is gone! Count Zirn's beautiful huge cathedral in Damascus is gone!!

And Stettin.... Stettin destroyed their own church with the help of Count Fritz's magistrates!!!

Count Fritz, I demand an explanation!!!!

Ferret
09-27-2007, 19:56
Even if there is no good alternative heir to Franconia anyone is better than Peter at the moment. Even if there are doubts about Fritz and his attitudes towards Luther at lest he has still remained at his post and is following the orders of his Duke. I would much rather follow a steward who has only just arrived at his Dukedom than follow a Duke who has betrayed his country!

OOC: just read PK's post

IC: Good lord! Surely such a thing cannot be true, if this is the case then Fritz is most certainly not a preferable choice. Someone has to be punished for this lest it become common practice throughout the reich!

Stig
09-27-2007, 19:56
Ansehelm:
A Chancellor is responsible for all building and army movements. So I too would like to know why the Chancellor decided to destroy those buildings.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 19:59
There are numerous eyewitness accounts that these acts were done by crowds following the teachings of Luther!!

The Chancellor didn't do this!!!

I demand that Luther be found and made accountable for this!!

The Pope is blaming us for not keeping control of our populace. Well, we better get control and fast!

Tamur
09-27-2007, 20:00
*Fritz rises coolly from the bench*

Ah, it's come to this, then, has it. I am blamed for the acts of the people. People who have been trying to get it through your thick heads that the current situation cannot stand.

And it cannot, friends! The people will no longer tolerate this unification, neither on a political nor on a spiritual level. They are fed up, sick and tired, worn out, and ready for a revolution!

I suggest everyone take care when going home today. The crowds cannot be controlled with a few bodyguards.

*Fritz sits with a smile*

Stig
09-27-2007, 20:02
Ansehelm:
I know no Luther, and have never even heard the name.
But I bet his views are better than anything Orthodox.

Privateerkev
09-27-2007, 20:08
Jan calms down a little,

Count Fritz,

I apologize for my earlier tone. Surely you can understand my feelings on this matter. Do you know that your settlement has burned down it's church?

to the Diet

I have sent new orders to the Steward. Count Dieter is to turn his army south and secure the city of Damascus. The current unrest has pushed the city to the brink of revolution.

Tamur
09-27-2007, 20:13
King Jan, I don't know anything about this. If my mag...

*Fritz goes red in the face*

...if the people of Stettin have burned the church, though, they will rebuild it to the glory of God.

Once the Pope has been replaced, of course.

*Fritz seats himself a little shakily*

econ21
09-27-2007, 20:15
Elberhard: To confirm the information that King Jan has provided, it is with grave regret that I must inform you all of the destruction of the huge cathedral in Damascus. Crusaders, possessed by the heretical teachings of Alexander Luther and filled with a diabolical hatred of our brothers, the Eastern Romans, were responsible for this sacriliegous act. They took advantage of the departure of their Count, Karl Zirn, and while loyal magistrates struggle to maintain order, I fear the city will revolt by the year's end.

Such "men" have even burnt down the chapel in Acre under my very nose. I glad to say, I caught the @#$%^&!!!ers responsible for the lesser outrage in Acre and they are now hanging in the citadel square.

These acts of sabotage against the newly unified church have not been confined to Outremer. A cathedral in Genoa has been burnt to the ground. A church in Stettin has also gone up in flames, although there are reports there that the magistrates - loyal to their governor, Fritz - not only failed to stop the arson but appeared to be orchestrating it.

These outrages have led to severe condemnation of the rioters by Pope Abbate. Our relations with the Papacy are now abysmal and the Holy Father will not suffer the name of the Reich to be mentioned in his presence. May God have mercy on the rioters’ souls for committing these sacrilegious acts.

FactionHeir
09-27-2007, 20:18
That is indeed troubling. I shall have loyal Swabian guards posted around the churches in the Ducal territories of Bern and Staufen. I would advise all governors to do the same to prevent further destruction of all that is holy.

Tamur
09-27-2007, 21:36
*Fritz von Kastilien looks about the chamber, shakes his head, then turns and leaves with weary steps*

RoadKill
09-27-2007, 23:00
Lorenz sits there, still a little confused with all this havoc, of the traitor.
Lorenz sits there for a long time, with a serious face, thinking. After a moment he speaks

About this traitor... Peter? I do not think we should stop him, on his "mad" run to constiaple.

Lorenz smiles

The byzatiums are, nothing but our allies, and if Peter is unstoppable at this moment, I think its time we declare war.

Peter will reach constiplae and attack soon, rather wasting thousands of german lives, on an pointless assualt, that will cause war, why not, send more armies towards constiaple, and... how should I put this....... wipe them out?

It is just my opinion, I think that since Peter is going to attack constipale anyways, why not just declare war with them? At least that will be... profitable.

Cecil XIX
09-27-2007, 23:51
This is insanity! How is it that we have two traitorous nobles and an unruly mob burning down Houses of God because of reunification when we don't even know what reunification is yet?

As blasphemous as the religious aspect of the unification is, Peter has shown himself to be not only a traitor but a bloodthirsty idiot as well. I will be happy to do the Lord's work and stop his march should he continue to move towards Constantinople, but if he and his entire army perishes at the hands of the Byzantines then he will have gotten what he deserved!

And another thing, from now on I will dedicate Prague's entire five regiments of militia towards guarding the Abbey and Councilor's Chambers for the preservation of good public order!

RoadKill
09-27-2007, 23:57
Lorenz stands up, smashing his knuckles on the wooden table indenting it.

Edmund! DO YOU REALLY WANT TO STAIN YOUR SWORD WITH GERMAN BLOOD!!?

ARE YOU THAT EAGER TO KILL A GERMAN, AND FORCE, BROTHERS, FATHERS, SONS, COUNSINS, TO KILL EACH OTHER?!!?

Lorenz calms down.

I would rather stain my sword with byzantium blood then, have my sword stained with german blood.

I say that we screw this unification, and take down the orthodox!

The orthodox is another religion and should not be accepted into our practicies!

FactionHeir
09-28-2007, 00:03
Looking to Lorenz, Hans rises to speak

I am quite surprised you would attack a brother Roman for the opposite reason and stain your sword with their blood, who have not raised their arm against us for many years now and have held the Venetians in check.

Even if you were to attack the Byzantines, there would be less of German life, unless you believe you can achieve victory without a single fallen. Regardless, there may be riots, but there are counter-riots as well. Re-unification or not, at this point, the Lutherian heretics will spill German blood and they are not sanctioned by the diet.

Save your words and anger for these blasphemers.

RoadKill
09-28-2007, 00:08
Lorenz sits, down exhaling. Then looking to Hans

Are you even sure you will be able to catch Peter. He will reach Constiaple sooner or later. It will still mean an act of war. You have a 50% chance of stopping a war from happening. But if you fail to catch him, war will occur anyways.

THINK ABOUT IT!

If that 50% chance with peter, can be changed into 60% maybe 70%, if we reinforce him, with more troops, and crush the Byzantium.

FactionHeir
09-28-2007, 00:09
If I have a 50% chance to stop a war, then that is better than nothing. It will save the empire and its allies from needless harm.

TinCow
09-28-2007, 00:32
A worthy cause, Duke Hans. Just be careful that in preventing one war, you do not start another.

RoadKill
09-28-2007, 00:47
Lorenz grunts, biting hard on his tongue. Then slowly exhales, and relaxes, then stands up. Without saying anything Lorenz stands up and walks out of the chambers, right at the door he speaks in a low calm tone.

It will be your demise.

Stuperman
09-28-2007, 03:43
This destruction of churches is an unforgivable sin, these are symbols of gods presence and power on earth, how such acts are permitted boggles the mind. Something must be done!

I also fear that Hans actions only add to the drum beat of war, I believe that diplomacy would serve the rich best. Lest we not allow this new Roman Empire fall to internal turmoil.

AussieGiant
09-28-2007, 03:47
Arnold:

I will certainly be making sure that any destruction of Church property in Austria will be met with swift and decisive justice at the point of my sword.

On another matter.

I hereby Knight Lorenz Zirn for his actions in battle around Krakow.

Picking up a small ornate box the Duke throws it across the Diet floor to Lorenz.

Their gold spurs son!! Don't £$^£$ing pawn them off you mad bastard!!!

OverKnight
09-28-2007, 09:57
The strain of the past few years is showing on Matthias. He speaks in a cold voice, but one with an edge of desperation.

This is Madness! Churches and Cathedral burned! Members of the Diet taking delight in the destruction and rebellion that is going on about us! Yet there is still no word from the Kaiser. He is fiddling in Constantinople while the Reich burns!

I oppose Unification. Our effort to unify Churches and Empires has accomplished little but rebellion, arson and chaos. What has been severed cannot be rejoined, to try is folly and only invites the dire events we see before us.

But I also oppose these Lutherites and those who support them.

Matthias's gaze bores in on Fritz.

Their actions might stop Unification, but only because there won't be anything left to join on either side. They think they are "saving" the Reich, but in fact they are only destroying it. What use is that?

This cannot continue. If this rebellion is to be put down, unification must be halted. We cannot stay on this path, or our Great Empire will be lost.

It sickens me to do this, but I call for an Emergency Session. Kaiser Siegfried must be removed from the Chancellorship, Unification halted, and the full force of the Reich brought down on this rebellion. I hope if Peter and Tancred hear of the Session they will halt their advance, but if not, they will soon be shown the error of their ways.

The Rule of Law must be reimposed, against all who set themselves against it. Without order, without laws, we are lost.

Stig
09-28-2007, 10:19
Ansehelm:
And you are the man to call on Emergency Session?
This "rebellion" can't be that serious, if people can't control their cities, well that's their fault. If something like this will happen in Franconia we'll just rebuild the church, pretty simple really.

Tamur
09-28-2007, 21:07
*A messenger enters the Diet chambers, waits until he is given permission, then announces from a scroll*

Lords, Count Fritz von Kastilien sends his regards to the noble Electors. He regrets to hear that not a single second was found to push forward Matthias' call for an Emergency Session, which is clearly needed.

*The messenger stops, licks his lips, and stammers onward*

He further sends a message, that if this body is incapable of action on such a straightforward matter, he also regrets to inform the electors that he has decided to absent himself from the Diet and join the people of Stettin and eastern Franconia as they move towards a new order.

His messenger will be reachable at the Broken Axle inn to convey any messages.

*The messenger bows and makes a very quick exit*

Warmaster Horus
09-28-2007, 21:19
So it's now three generals absent? Two in direction of Constantinople, and one who wants to raise further ruckus in the Diet, yet without being present in the Diet personally?

How ridiculous! This isn't going to solve any of our problems!

GeneralHankerchief
09-28-2007, 22:08
Dietrich von Dassel:

Well Jan, it appears that you weren't faithful enough. The Kaiser has gone and given your territory right to the Byzantines in yet another "generous gift" to Emperor Isaac. If it keeps up at this rate then we'll be re-unified all right - wearing purple.

Of course, I eagerly await to hear your legal wranglings for how this is unacceptable. Perhaps you can even tell the Kaiser in person when he visits here. However, you will have to get in line.

Incidentally, this makes Elector Bresch the same rank as me, since he will no longer have a County to govern.

Stig
09-28-2007, 22:37
Ansehelm:
Meine Herren, from the letter send by our treacherous Kaiser I've learned that it is in the deals that the Outremer is going to be gifted to Byzantium. We cannot approve of this.

I personally do not approve of the Outremer, and prefer to see it abandoned, as it costs us more than it gives us. However we fought for it, good Germans, good Franconians as well died for it. We should not give this all away to people who never did anything for us. They are in no position to make demands, we are the conquerors of the world. We have the strongest army. Would I want to I can take on all of Byzantium with only the Teutonic Army, and win.
We, meine freunde, are the strongest nation in the world, if anyone can make demands it is us, not some fake gay coloured Orthodox nation.

I say we stay in the Outremer, and if the Byzantines think they can take it, we simply fight back. We show them how real men fight.

AND WE BEAT THEM!!!


However, since Outremer is not ours anymore I hereby name Dieter Bresch as Furst of Saxonia (OOC: unofficial rank) and Count of Magdeburg, and I name Jan von Hamburg as Count of Hamburg. Untill they arrive Fritz will command the Saxonian Army.

OverKnight
09-28-2007, 22:38
Matthias jumps upright at the news of Outremer, sending his desk tumbling forward.

What?! We are to hand over all of Outremer to the Byzantines? This is. . .is beyond words! Unified or not, they haven't had a presence in the Levant since the 8th Century. A longer time even than southern Italy. What shall we give them next, Rome itself? If I'm not mistaken, the old dividing line between East and West was along the Adriatic and east of Italy, if so, why exactly have we given them Palermo and Naples along with Outremer?

Is the Kaiser methodically going down a list seeing if he can alienate everyone in the Reich?

I'm in shock, I have tried to walk the line between opposition to Unification and rebellion, as both would harm the Reich. But is there a line left? I don't know.

Matthias strides to the door of the Diet and turns to face the empty throne of the Kaiser.

I'm going to Outremer. As God as my witness, the Greeks can have Adana once they pry it from my cold, dead hands! What has been consecrated in German blood shall not be surrendered with the stroke of a pen!

Matthias exits, slamming the door behind him.

gibsonsg91921
09-28-2007, 22:41
There is rustling in the bushes outside the windows. Lars peers in, sitting on Ulrich's shoulders.

OOC: Eavesdropping, Samwise Gamgee?

RoadKill
09-28-2007, 23:39
Lorenz once again appears in the room, this time even more angered.

What type of fool, would give all of Outmer, to the Byzantium! AN IMBICEL, THATS WHAT HE IS!!!.

I was not present at the time, but I'm sure thousands and thousands of germans have throw their lives away, for this holy land!. This is complete blashmephy. All those lives for nothing!?!? This is more then maddening. How can we gift so much land to those byzantium.

ARGH!!!

Lorenz grips his sword, rips it out and slashes it clean through the table

TinCow
09-28-2007, 23:42
*Duke Lothar hastily scribbles a note and passes it to a Bavarian servant. Both of them then walk briskly out of the Diet, in opposite directions.*

econ21
09-29-2007, 00:02
Elberhard: Electors, there is much to digest in the Kaiser's report on his negotiations. I have been assured that no action will be taken with regard to gifting Outremer until the Kaiser has returned to address the Diet. He has set off from Constantinople and is making here as fast as possible, although having to evade the traitor Peter's patrols will slow his progress.

OOC: In game terms, I will use a cheat to get the Kaiser to arrive in the Rome in the next turn, 1308. In real life, hopefully, Ituralde will log in on Monday at around 10pm (UK time).

Since the Kaiser will take no action until he speaks to us, likewise, I ask that no precipitate action be taken by those opposed to his decision.

On the matter of Outremer, I confess I am as shocked as any other Elector at this turn of events. However, I am neither Kaiser nor Chancellor. I can say this, however. Outremer was never about land for the Reich. It was about protecting Jerusalem. With religious re-unification, our Eastern Roman brothers have as much interest in that duty as we do. If they can undertake it without our assistance, I cannot complain. I - and I believe many other crusaders - will seek to remain in the Holy Land to assist in this noble cause for as long as we are able. But that is an issue that can only be resolved when Kaiser Siegfried stands before us.

GeneralHankerchief
09-29-2007, 00:08
Dietrich von Dassel:

Yes, I'm sure the Byzantines have a vested interest in protecting the figure who's been the enemy of their religion up until two years ago.

It may not matter for us, but it's clearly only a land grab for them.

Privateerkev
09-29-2007, 00:35
King Jan walks into the Diet. He is carrying what looks to be the Charter of Outremer.

If I may have the floor for a moment,

I have read that the Kaiser intends to turn over all of Outremer in order to secure unification with the Byzantines. I do believe that unification of HRE and ERE would be good for us and the world. And I do believe that the re-unification of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches was good for the world regardless of what some may think about it. Therefore I fully support this move by the Kaiser if this is what he believes is the best way to achieve these ends.

Prince Elberhard is right. Outremer was never about land. It was about serving God. It was about spreading the Word. It was about defeating enemies there so we would not have to fight them here. It was about protecting the Holy places. While we may not have the land, we do still have these tasks.

Jan holds up the Charter of Outremer

I am amazed at how quickly some of you were willing to pretend this did not exist today. But it is still here. And it is still active law. All Crusader Counts still have their Crusader Counties until the handover takes place. I am still King of Outremer, which means I will have to reject Duke Ansehelm's appointment of me as Count of Hamburg. The two AoO's are fully combat ready.

And we still have a stated mission:
3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom. When the changeover takes place, I will give orders for the two AoO's to take up defensive positions around Jerusalem. There, those of us who wish to stay, will defend Jerusalem as long as we can. With the help of God, and your prayers, we will be victorious against those which wish to do Jerusalem harm.

Thank you and I will now yield the floor.

*edit*
OOC: I realized that it is not possible to "reject" a count assignment. So, Jan is Count of Hamburg until Ansehelm takes it away. He just can't set the build queue or get the influence from it while King

Stig
09-29-2007, 01:15
Once the Kingdom is given away both armies will be disbanded, as there will be no Kingdom anymore. And by rejecting the position of count you will find yourself countyless and armyless in future Jan.

Next to that, there is no proper God, would he be there he would have made sure your lovely church in Damascus would still be there.

Meine Herren, this is a time of war and bad things. We cannot pointlessy pray to God and hope he solves things. We must head out to war. There's one man who's on a good mission now, and I bloody well hope he succeeds. He might save the Reich, he took action, he did not sit here, and talk, he stood up to fight. None of you come even close to his deeds, no matter what you might have done. What is the title of King of the Outremer? It's nothing and it gives you nothing, all you are is a pawn to play with, a pawn of your feudal master.
The title Prinz, what good is it to you? Nothing, you will get nothing. I am sure of my land, I have it. But a Prinz will get nothing anymore, totally nothing. He will be passed in rank by a Byzantine. Do you realise that Elberhard? You get nothing, by the letter of he who some still call Kaiser you have just fallen in rank from the Second in Command to nothing more than a little Count. You have nothing, absolutely nothing.

Privateerkev
09-29-2007, 01:17
I apologize Duke Ansehelm for I was wrong in one thing. I can not reject a county. I therefor thank you for giving me my family's lands. Unfortunately, I can not legally govern the settlement while I have this current appointment.

Thank you again for appointing me Count of Hamburg Duke Ansehelm.

Jan bows to the Duke.

RoadKill
09-29-2007, 02:09
Lorenz stands up.

So many agree, but why can you people not understand. We can't fall under the power of the byzantium. We must fight, even if it will cost us lives! We must follow Peter's actions, and save the Reich!!!

econ21
09-29-2007, 10:40
Elberhard: Duke Ansehelm, I care nothing for my title or what it gives me just as you care nothing for Outremer.

The difference between us is that you are willing to sanction war with our greatest ally for something you care nothing for while I will remain loyal to my Kaiser.

Warmaster Horus
09-29-2007, 11:27
So if the Kaiser told you to jump from a bridge, or to go lock yourself in a burning church, as there seems to be many now, you would do it? Because you were loyal to him?

Stig
09-29-2007, 12:35
Ansehelm:
I'm loyal to the Reich Elberhard, something which you aren't. A man that wants to give it away, because he thinks some inferior Greeks should be our equals.
Unfortunatly Herr Karolinger is right, you'd even jump of the bridge if ordered by your superior.

Just know that he isn't my feudal lord, so I have nothing to give to him.

Privateerkev
09-29-2007, 17:28
I find it interesting that some in here do not seem to see the Kaiser/Duke relationship as "feudal". The Kaiser dispenses land to the Duchies in return for loyalty of the Duke and his vassals. Is that not feudalism?

TinCow
09-29-2007, 19:19
Surely it would be, if Bavaria had received anything of worth from Kaiser Siegfried. Tell me, exactly what duty do I owe to a man whose only aid to my Duchy has been the 'donation' of a land that we do not even own? Feudalism requires a relationship that goes both ways. The Lord protects and aids the vassal in return for servitude. As far as Bavaria is concerned, Siegfried has not upheld any of his feudal responsibilities to us.

econ21
09-29-2007, 19:29
Elberhard puts down a letter and rises to his feet, his face dark and sombre.

Elberhard: Duke Lothar, do not speak to us of duty and obligation. This Diet has forgotten the meaning of those words - along with others, such as honour and loyalty.

The Prinz lowers his head and rubs his hair in anguish, before looking up and continuing.

Noble electors, it is my sad duty to inform you that Count Friedrich Scherer, former Duke of Swabia, has fallen in battle against the French. I grieve with my brother Swabians, and I am sure, the whole Reich, in the loss of so distinguished a general.

I ask you all to stand, united with me, in his honour and salute his name:

TO FRIEDRICH!!!!

GeneralHankerchief
09-29-2007, 19:30
Dietrich von Dassel:

There are no words. I wish I was there to help.

TO FRIEDRICH!!!

Privateerkev
09-29-2007, 19:31
Jan stands to honor the fallen man. He makes a sign of the cross on his chest.

May the Lord see him swiftly and gently on his way to Heaven.

TO FRIEDRICH!!!

FactionHeir
09-29-2007, 19:36
I believe Siegfried did gift quite a bit of land to Bavaria upon his ascension, as did he to most other houses.

As for the matter of Outremer, I will wait to hear him speak in person, before I will think about accepting to give away the ground on which my father and many other men of the empire have died on.

[edit]
May good Friedrich rest in peace for his valor in battle against our French foes. They have claimed two of our esteemed nobles now and I pray there shall be no more.
As soon as the traitor Peter is brought to justice, I will see to eliminating the French threat personally once and for all.

GeneralHankerchief
09-29-2007, 19:50
Dietrich von Dassel:

Kaiser Siegfried, this blood is on YOUR hands. If you weren't so intent on getting dangerous ol' me out of the way and dumping me in Ragusa, I might have been there to help! If you hadn't sent Hans on some wild goose chase to catch up with Peter when you know it'll never happen, he might have been there to help!

Because of your policy the finest soldier in the Reich and the greatest Duke of Swabia has perished needlessly. You talk of cooperation with the Byzantines. Why not let them stop Peter while we can concentrate on our own enemies?!

That's two Swabians you've offed now, Siegfried, counting poor Kaiser Jobst. I shudder to think who your next victim will be.

Warmaster Horus
09-29-2007, 21:41
There's nothing else to say about this tragedy: TO FRIEDRICH!
However, there are things to be said of this:

Duke Lothar, do not speak to us of duty and obligation. This Diet has forgotten the meaning of those words - along with others, such as honour and loyalty.
Duty and obligation. Honour and loyalty. These do not seem to have the same meaning to you Elberhard, as they do to me, and probably to others as well.
I have a duty to the Reich. I have an obligation to defend it and its interest. I have my honour, and I believe I have kept it intact. My loyalties lie first in the Reich, then in Bavaria. The Kaiser does not figure in these equations.
It is like the Church, if you will. I am faithful to Our Lord. But the Pope has nothing to do with it!

Privateerkev
09-29-2007, 21:49
Sir Dassel,

No, you claim that Count Scherer's blood is on the Kaiser's hands. Claiming so doesn't automatically make it so. As usual, your inventing causality where there is none.

Count Scherer died on a Saturday. Does that mean Saturday is also responsible for his death?

Diet legislation allowed Swabia to go into France in the first place. Is the Diet responsible for his death?

No I am afraid you are yet again inventing things in order to support your political agendas.

You claim the blood is on the Kaiser's hands because it is convenient for you to do so. Maybe if you thought more about what you said in the Diet, you wouldn't have honked off so many people, and you would have been in Swabia to help Count Scherer during the battle. So, does that mean it is actually you who is responsible for his death?

I prefer to think it is the French that are responsible but if you insist on inventing culpability for political reasons, you should be aware that it could be done to you as well.

Not by me of course but not everyone here has shown you the courtesy of healthy debate like I have.

Ferret
09-29-2007, 22:07
Duty and obligation. Honour and loyalty. These do not seem to have the same meaning to you Elberhard, as they do to me, and probably to others as well.
I have a duty to the Reich. I have an obligation to defend it and its interest. I have my honour, and I believe I have kept it intact. My loyalties lie first in the Reich, then in Bavaria. The Kaiser does not figure in these equations.
It is like the Church, if you will. I am faithful to Our Lord. But the Pope has nothing to do with it!

No Freidrich you are wrong. The Kasier is the Reich, he is the Emperor and was appointed by God, he has the divine right to rule us and control the Reich. He is a part of this Empire so you must be loyal to him as well, he represents the interest of the Reich, he conveys what the Reich needs through his speech. A lot of us are very unhappy with his decisions of late, as am I, but i still respect his right to rule as he sees fit.

Stig
09-29-2007, 22:39
Ansehelm:
Wrong my dear Dieter, this Kaiser was not appointed by god, we did appoint him.

As to why he isn't my feudal lord: he has nothing to say about my title. I am Duke of Franconia, whether he likes it or not.

Privateerkev
09-29-2007, 22:42
Duke Ansehelm,

The Kaiser was indeed appointed by God. We only voted on whether to accept it or not.

And the Kaiser is your feudal lord as he is the one that dispenses land.

Even if you do not agree with him, it would be difficult for you to ignore the power relationship.

GeneralHankerchief
09-30-2007, 01:19
Dietrich von Dassel:

The Kaiser was appointed by the Diet based solely on the fact that they wanted to get the dispute resolved as quickly as possible and ignored heaps of evidence in the meantime.

GeneralHankerchief
09-30-2007, 01:27
Dietrich von Dassel:

I've just experienced an epiphany, fellow Electors. God spoke to me and said that actually, *I* am to be the Kaiser for the Reich.

The reasoning for this is iron-clad. I am the eldest son of Harold von Dassel, who was the eldest son of Sigismund der Stolze, who was the eldest son of Kaiser Henry, who was the eldest son of Kaiser Heinrich. That certainly qualifies me. Plus, as already stated, God said I was Kaiser.

I demand that the Diet immediately take a vote to officialize my position. Anyone who disagrees with me will be struck by lightning within twenty-four hours. After all, God is on my side.

RoadKill
09-30-2007, 01:54
Lorenz snickers

God does not select one, and God did not select you. God can only provide us with the paint, the brush, and the paper, but is is completly under the control of our hands to paint what we see fit. And right now, I think we have painted a horrible painting, but that doesn't mean we can't fix it.

FOLLOW THE PATH OF PETER AND THAT CNA BE OUR CORRECTION.

Privateerkev
09-30-2007, 02:04
Sir Dassel,

That is wonderful news. Once Pope Abbate confirms this, we will move on with the coronation ceremony at once.

Of course, as Elberhard pointed out, you believe your the Pope too, so you could just go anoint yourself.

GeneralHankerchief
09-30-2007, 02:06
Dietrich von Dassel:

Well, since it is the Kaiser's prerogative to name and approve a Pope, I guess you're right and I can do just that.

I am now Kaiser and Pope. I demand that re-unification, both political and religious, cease at once. If you resist I will excommunicate you and send armies after you. King Jan, it is now your sole goal in life as King of Outremer to protect me. I suggest you start by massaging my feet.

Privateerkev
09-30-2007, 03:39
Would you like the orange lotion or the guava?

On second thought, you will probably have more than enough "lotion" after "anointing" yourself.

Stuperman
09-30-2007, 04:27
If only it were that easy Dassel, These repeated, gifts to Constantinople, are disturbing in their frequency, and increasing generosity.

AussieGiant
09-30-2007, 06:28
Arnold:

The loss of Count Scherer is a blow to the our Western border.

He was a colossal General who seemed to be able to single-handedly deal with the French and their repeated attempts to stop our expansion.

I pray his departure to the after life does not leave us exposed at this delicate time.

TO FRIEDRICH!!!!

Cecil XIX
09-30-2007, 15:45
I mourn the death of Friederich Scherer, and am happy that his name will live on in the fields of France through the many fantastic victories he has won.

TO FRIEDERICH!!!

I also volunteer to test Dietrich's claims by denying his right to be Kaiser and waiting twenty-four hours. Wish me luck my fellow Electors, and may god have mercy on my soul.

GeneralHankerchief
09-30-2007, 15:55
Dietrich von Dassel:

I have marked the time, Count Becker. Since clearly God is on my side you will be dead within twenty-four hours.

Similarly, I demand that God smite me within the same twenty-four hour span if, in fact, Siegfried is Kaiser. If King Jan is correct in saying that He chose Siegfried to rule then surely He will have no problem striking down somebody who disagrees with him.

Privateerkev
09-30-2007, 16:04
Sir Dassel has clearly misunderstood the patience and love God has for all of us.

I will pray that God shows Sir Dassel that He loves him as he does all His creatures. And I will pray that Sir Dassel opens his eyes and heart to God's love for it is vast and infinite.

GeneralHankerchief
09-30-2007, 16:13
*Twenty-four hours pass.*

Dietrich von Dassel:

Hmm. It seems as if I am still alive and addressing you today. My limbs are in the right order, I do not seem to be sick, and I am not speaking a foreign tongue, correct me if I'm wrong. Therefore...

*He spies the Austrian benches and gasps in mock shock.*

Becker! You're not a pile of smouldering ashes!

Which means...

...which means that neither myself nor Siegfried is Kaiser!

But then who could it be? Hans, perhaps? The firstborn son of Kaiser Henry? Count von Salza, the son of Kaiser Jobst? How about Matthias Steffen? The third son of an adoptee of the second son-in-law of Kaiser Heinrich! He certainly qualifies!

Or, of course, it could also be that the Kaiser is not pre-ordained by God and it is up to us, the Diet, to make the proper choices.

Cecil XIX
09-30-2007, 16:20
The Lord is not playing your petty games with you. That is all this means.

Privateerkev
09-30-2007, 16:28
Jan clasps his hands, bows his head, and starts softly praying.

AussieGiant
09-30-2007, 16:53
Shaking his head in rueful amusment


Dietrich have you gone completely #$%#$ing insane?

Cecil XIX
10-01-2007, 01:19
Edmund Becker enter the Diet.

My lords, I have good news. Peter von Kastilien has been captured, and even now sits inside a cell in Rome awaiting trial. His army was confronted by the Second Austrian Household Army and he made the sensible decision to surrender his men and avoid a full-fledged battle between Germans. His soldiers are awaiting judgement by Duke Ansehelm, with the exception of the two regiments of Spear Militia from Prague. As their fuedal lord, I confiscated their weapons and armor and left them behind near Sofia. Those with the discipline to return to Prague will be pardoned.

RoadKill
10-01-2007, 02:22
.......

Lorenz grumbles at the news.

Privateerkev
10-01-2007, 05:10
It is indeed good news that you we're able to avert bloodshed.

I hate to be the one to throw a wet-blanket on this party but, has anyone found Tancred yet?

Stig
10-01-2007, 09:22
Ansehelm
And I want someone to lead the former Prussian Army back to Krakow, can't leave that to a captain, not in and close to enemy territory.

econ21
10-01-2007, 10:51
Elberhard: Duke Ansehelm, I intend to regard your former Teutonic Crusade Army as the new Prussian Household Army. The former Prussian army will be disbanded, with elements transferring to the AHA1 and the Kaiser's army.

With Becker's announced retirement, we do need a new commander for AHA1. Duke Arnold, which Zirn do you intend to appoint as his replacement?

Stig
10-01-2007, 11:19
Ansehelm:
And I would like the Prussian Army to reinforce my troops and Krakow, as Arnold at some point has to leave it. I'm strongly against disbanding it.

You go searching for one of my other army commanders you lost.

econ21
10-01-2007, 14:06
Diet Speaker: It is with great regret that I announce the death of our Kaiser, Siegfried von Kastilien. He was ambushed and killed while inside the Reich returning to Rome from Constantinople. Preliminary investigations reveal that an unknown band of warriors were responsible for the ambush. From the bodies of the fallen, it appears that they were probably mercenaries or rebels.

I am summoning our new Kaiser, Elberhard, from the Holy Land to respond to this crisis. However, I am also requesting Duke Hans, commander of the Kaiser’s Army, to lead a full investigation into the circumstances of the Kaiser’s death, so that we may know more.

May God protect the Reich in this terrible time!

Privateerkev
10-01-2007, 14:15
Jan stands up.

This is a dark day for the Reich. I hope Duke Hans can find out more.

However, a new Kaiser will be here soon.

Long live Kaiser Elberhard!!!

TinCow
10-01-2007, 14:32
*Lothar Steffen furrows his brow.*

This is indeed dire news. As much as I may have disagreed with Kaiser Siegfried's actions, his death will likely cause more problems than it will solve. I urge all Electors to keep a close watch on their lands, to prevent any excessive unrest from this sudden event. Hopefully Duke Hans will return with his report very soon, so that we may learn who these brigands were. Of course, I expect him to return to Rome with their heads on pikes.

The Kaiser is dead. Long live Kaiser Elberhard.

Privateerkev
10-01-2007, 14:57
The new Kaiser isn't here yet so I'm going to go down the street to the Tavern and lift a mug or three in memory to our dear departed Kaiser. Any who wish to are welcome to join me.

First round is on me.

Tamur
10-01-2007, 15:48
*Fritz von Kastilien enters the Diet in travel-stained boots and riding cloak. He disrobes and walks to the Diet floor*

Friends, I have come as soon as I heard the news. I will always remember Siegfried as the young brother I had when we were growing up. I have remembered back to that time often in the past few years, and wish that, when it came time to depart this life, he and I had not grown so distant.

*Fritz pauses, looking at the floor*

Taking up the issue of Byzantium on a day like this would be an insult to Siegfried's memory, so I will forbear.

Long live Kaiser Elberhard.

Stig
10-01-2007, 15:55
Ansehelm:
I also would like to know how this happened.
And in relation I would like to know all Byzantine army and diplomat movements and I want a spy or someone else to locate Tancred von Tyrrolia.

As to our former Kaiser, I used to see him as a brother, untill it became clear that he was making mistakes, but then I never saw little Siegfried grow up, I've seen nothing but fighting all my life.

Which leads to the announcement that the siege of Thorn is once again broken.

Cecil XIX
10-01-2007, 16:40
It is indeed a sad day for the Reich. Emperor Siegfried was a good man and most certainly did not deserve this fate.

Long live Kaiser Elberhard!

Warmaster Horus
10-01-2007, 16:46
Friedrich, and now Kaiser Siegfried... How many of us will pass away in these dark, dark times?

Long live Kaiser Elberhard! May he guide us well.
Say, Elberhard will be Chancellor until 1320, correct?

And, King Jan, I will join you in a moment. I will have to hurry, for I must return to join the fleet to Thessalonica.

FactionHeir
10-01-2007, 18:50
Siegfried dead?!? Where was the ambushed, I shall be dispatching the former emperor's army there immediately.

On a side note, I hope that the cornering of Peter by Becker and myself will keep the lasting alliance with Byzantium in place and that Tancred can be found before he causes any more damage. I would advise that the house of Austria keep a keen vigil on their borders to make sure no army marches through that is not authorized by the chancellor.

Oh, and congratulations my brother.

edited for OOC

GeneralHankerchief
10-01-2007, 20:18
Dietrich von Dassel:

Long live Kaiser Elberhard!

econ21
10-01-2007, 23:19
Elberhard enters the Chamber, looking tired and emotional.

Elberhard: Electors, these are dark days. I know many of you had your disagreements with Siegfried, but the man stood up for what he believed was best for the Reich. He had a vision that would have seen him rival Augustus and our Reich match the ancient Roman Empire at its height.

But the man is dead and the vision he laid out before us is fading fast. I do not wish to prejudge the result of my brother, Duke Hans, and his inquiries into the circumstances of Siegfried's death. Yet, given the fraught political climate and in particular, the vehement domestic opposition to his goal of re-unification, there is little doubt in my mind that the Kaiser's death was no random act of violence.

I pray that I am wrong. But if I am right, I intend to let Kaiser Siegfried have the last laugh over his assassins. I am exercising my perogative to rule as Chancellor. I know my authority here is no greater than a whore's virtue, so you will not have to suffer me for long. I will not serve a full term as Chancellor, but instead I will step down in 1320. I will use my short time as Chancellor to continue Siegfried's work towards re-unification. As I have promised before, re-unification will not take place without the consent of this Diet. However, if King Jan agrees, I will honour Siegfried's promise to Emperor Isaac to gift Outremer.

There is one other matter that I must address - the fate of the traitor Peter von Kastilien. Interogations by Count Becker have revealed that Peter's aim was to sack Constantinople, not kill the Kaiser. Moreover, Peter surrendered to an inferior force rather than wantonly spill German blood. What is more, both Peter and his forces were under Count Becker's supervision at the time that the Kaiser was murdered and thus cannot be considered suspects in that heinous act. For these reasons, I have decided to exercise some leniency over Peter's fate. He will not be executed. Nor do I judge that a treason trial would be in the best interests of the Reich. But I cannot release a man who has shown himself so capable of raising and leading a rebel army. Peter must remain in detention in the dungeons at Rome until the political situation is less fraught.

Stig
10-01-2007, 23:33
Ansehelm:
I hereby ask to transfer Peter to my prisons in Thorn. He is Franconian, and in the prisons of Thorn one will learn not to desert again.

Also I ask again, I want to know the whereabouts of Tancred, as I want to have him imprisoned too.

Also, being in Thorn might give Peter (and Gibson) a change to come into play again, it's sieged soo often that Peter at some point has to help, or die.

Privateerkev
10-01-2007, 23:44
King Jan comes forward and kneels before the Kaiser,

My Kaiser,

Outremer is yours to command. I swear to serve you loyally and faithfully as King until I die or until you chose to appoint another to serve that role. I serve at the pleasure of the Kaiser. May God keep you as you lead us through these dark times. May the Lord guide you and make sure your reign is long and prosperous.

Jan stands back up.

As for gifting Outremer, if Kaiser Siegfried and yourself believe that is the price to pay for political and religious unification, then I say we pay it. Outremer was never about land. It was never about cities. And it was never about castles. Outremer was a dream and an idea. Born from great men with vision and courage. Outremer was meant to secure the Holy Lands for all of Christianity. It was meant to re-secure our relationship with the Papacy by ensuring that Jerusalem would be a capital for the Holy Father to sit on the "throne of Peter". It was meant to save the soul of the Reich when we were cast out in the dark during the Second Investiture crisis. And it was meant to protect the Reich by allowing us to fight horrible enemies over there so we wouldn't have to fight them here. And that dream still lives. And our mission still lives. When the provinces of Outremer are handed over, I will stay behind along with whoever wishes to join me. Together, we will take the two AoO's and defend Jerusalem. And with the Diet's prayers and support, we will not fail.

As to Kaiser Siegfried, if there was indeed foul play involved, let those responsible know this. I will not rest until the truth is found out. I have been hunting those responsible for King Salier's murder for years and I will add this investigation to my plate as well. Even those among you who do not like me will have to admit that I am very very stubborn. If someone is responsible for the Kaiser's death, I will find him. This I swear before God.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 00:11
Dietrich von Dassel:

Kaiser Elberhard, you are now our Head of State and present in Rome to address the Diet. Finally, we may get some answers.

Of course it will take due time to catch up on Siegfried's negotiations with Emperor Isaac. But when you do, I demand that you present the conditions of re-unification to the Diet and that you call a vote on it. This madness has gone on far too long and we need a resolution, one way or another.

Stig
10-02-2007, 00:22
I see no use in keeping 2 armies in the Outremer without having any provinces there. It will cost us too much in times of need. If we want to take big decisions on this I think we should hold a quick Emergency Session, like Siegfried wanted us to vote on Unification or not.

If we choose to give away Outremer AND defend Jeruzalem we should atleast keep one castle in the area.

FactionHeir
10-02-2007, 00:26
Perhaps it would be worth considering to expel the Egyptians from southern Outremer? We could then create a new base of operations to the south or gift it away to the papacy to create a kingdom of heaven adjacent to Byzantine protectors to the north.

Tamur
10-02-2007, 04:26
*Fritz rises and slowly walks to the centre of the floor*

I applaud the bravado of King Jan in being willing to give up his title. This is the mark of a greater man than I had thought him to be.

But think, gentlemen. How easily we give away what other men's blood has dearly bought. Our fathers have for generations bled and suffered to maintain and defend Jerusalem from invasion. And we have been successful, despite all odds and despite being thousands of miles from our German homeland.

Do we really, truly feel in our hearts that the gifting of Outremer to the Byzantines is in the best interest of that most holy city, Jerusalem? Or are we looking at the bottom line on the tally sheet?

*Fritz pauses for a full half-minute, looking now at one elector, now at another*

It's too expensive! It's too much work, too much trouble, too much toil, too much sweat in a dusty land.

The bones of our fathers lying in the holy ground must tremble to hear such words spoken in the Diet.

AussieGiant
10-02-2007, 16:45
Arnold:

This is shocking news. I have certainly disagreed with Kaiser Siegfried's grand plans and the way he went about this was completely incorrect in my mind, however his death surely creates even more instability at this time...that is some with can ill afford.

Austria will double it's patrols for the moment and I'm prepared to pay the expense in order to ensure security is maintained.

I ask Duke Hans to report as soon as possible so we can determine what has happened.

The Kaiser is dead. Long live Kaiser Elberhard!!

Now onto more immediate matters!!

Are we walking around this world with our ass before our brains!!??

Nothing can be given away until WE ratify this DEAL in this Chamber. The terms must be tabled and put to a vote...ONLY then will Outremer be given to the Byzantines.

FactionHeir
10-02-2007, 16:48
A Letter arrives in the diet and is read by a Swabian clerk

My lords, may I have your attention please.
My Duke, Hans the Mighty of Swabia and Chief-Investigator in service of Emperor Elberhard the Champion has written to confirm that the investigation has been completed and the emperor will be announcing its results shortly.

econ21
10-02-2007, 19:21
Elberhard: I am grateful to my brother for his service investigating the circumstances of Kaiser Siegfried's death. His inquiries are complete, although the outcome is far from satisfactory. I will circulate the full text of his communication to all Electors.

As all must surely suspect, the death of the Kaiser inside the supposed safety of the Reich was not random violence. It was an assassination, conducted by a paid of mercenaries. What is worse, it appears that they were hired by men within the Reich - specifically, within Bavaria. Unfortunately, we do not know the identity of the individuals involved, although we may speculate.

Electors, the Reich has become like Saturn - it is devouring its own children. We must stop this descent into violence and civil war. Everyone must show restraint and discipline. The laws must be obeyed; the Charter must be obeyed. Offices of state and chains of command must be adhered to. There can be no open rebellion, no loose talk condoning rebels. Gentlemen, the wolf is in the pen - we must stand together, back to back or be devoured.

In that spirit, I make two further announcements. First, Outremer will be gifted as Kaser Siegfried planned. You may reject unification. I cannot and will not impose that on you against the will of the Diet. You may vote on that issue at the next Diet session. But the gifting of Imperial lands is within my authority as Kaiser and Chancellor. You may disagree violently with it - violently enough to kill our Head of State - but that will not stop me. I will honour the late Kaiser's wishes and see that his promise to Emperor Isaac is kept.

Second, you will notice that Duke Hans makes mention of an unauthorised army being raised by Dietrich von Dassel in Ragusa, sanctuary of the turbulent priest, Alexander Luther. As a Swabian, Dietrich is answerable to his Duke. I authorise Hans to take the Kaiser's army to Ragusa and arrest Luther. The Duke may make whatever steps are necessary to restore discipline and the proper chain of command in that citadel.

The text of Hans's report:



Brother, Emperor,

I have completed the investigation I believe and have managed to capture nearly all of the men who were part of the attack on Siegfried and his retinue. As you read this letter, they are on their way to Rome under my guard.

It seems that they were neither brigands nor assassins, but mercenaries who had been extraordinarily well equipped and paid off by a man in Florence. Luckily, the leader of the mercenaries was taken alive, and he remembers the payer to have a Bavarian accent and to be acting on behalf of another, who he did not identify.
Based on the amount paid, 60,000 florins in total, it is safe to assume that it must have been a noble with good connections or a group of nobles, as no merchant would be able to afford this amount of payment. It would probably be useful to investigate which house or noble has recently been expending much of their capital or have saved extraordinary amounts to commit to this undertaking.

Meanwhile, my agents in Ragusa have reported back to me regarding Dietrich von Dassel. While they did not bring information on his involvement with the Order, they did report that Alexander Luther is under Dassel's protection at Ragusa, spreading his heretical lies, and that Dassel is ammassing a large host loyal to his person and Luther's cause. I would suggest that you and Duke Arnold stop him immediately or allow me to intervene. It should not come to a siege as my agents have infiltrated the citadel, but still I would not wish unnecessary spilling of German blood, unless their faithlessness is proven.

With regards,
Your brother Hans

TinCow
10-02-2007, 19:30
*Lothar's eyebrows arch in surprise.*

A Bavarian was responsible for the Kaiser's death? And a man from my own city of Florence, no less?! This is horrendous and will not be tolerated. I will order my men to immediately begin an investigation into the matter. I assure you all that the villain will be caught and receive the 'justice' that he deserves.

*Lothar gestures to one of the Bavarian servants nearby.*

You, yes you! Take a copy of this information to the captain of my Household guard and tell him that he is to begin combing Florence for the assassin immediately. He is to continue searching until the man is found, no matter how long it takes. Tell him that he may use any Bavarian soldiers he needs for the job.

AussieGiant
10-02-2007, 19:48
Arnold

CHRIST ALMIGHTY!!!!

Exactly what the £$%^ is going on inside the borders of my Duchy!!??

The Kaiser has been killed and now Dietrich is raising an army of Austrian fighting men in one of my own Citadels!!?

This has gone on long enough.

Turning to his three Austrian Nobles

I want a curfew in place across the entire Duchy.

No one moves after dark and there is to be no one armed apart from Austrian Household troops under our Command or that of the Imperial Army under Duke Hans.

I want scouts and outrider ringing Ragusa by the end of the week gentlemen and if any moves I want to know about it.

Turning to the Bavarian benches

I'm appalled at the idea that someone from Bavaria could have anything to do with the Kaisers death, but I'm also equally sure that Duke Lothar will find something.

The Duke's priest whispers quickly at the animated Duke. With a startled look Arnold turns back to the Kaiser

Did I just £%^£"$ing hear correctly Elberhard!!? You're going to give Outremer away BEFORE we have a chance to look at the reunification proposal??

Have you lost your collective £$^ig mind?? Have one of those "Arnolds" rogered you senseless while you were asleep!!??

Exactly what kind of £$%$ed up, two bit, hair brained S T U P I D...£$^%£ing ridiculous, god for£$%^£ingsaken, utter bag of shiet...the Duke pauses for breath

....is that for an idea!!??

What possible £$%^%$ing reason are we doing that for!!?? Why don't you just hand your %^£ing wife over while your at it!!??

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 20:09
Dietrich von Dassel:

What is this madness?! You all speak as if I am turning traitor, as if I plan to march this army on Rome itself! There is no need for this ridiculous operation!

I demand to know the crime that Alexander Luther is to be arrested for. Since coming under my protection I have specifically ordered him not to advocate the destruction of any more property. It is not the man's fault if his followers ignore him.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 20:16
Dietrich von Dassel:

Secondly, restore discipline? Are you serious?! Ragusa has experienced no riots, no destruction of property, and no loss of life! I think I'm doing a better job of keeping discipline than Hans, so I quiver at his ideas of restoring it!

econ21
10-02-2007, 20:23
Elberhard:

Dietrich - quit your yapping and your barking. Your master will attend to you soon enough.


Duke Arnold, you ask me - why do I gift Outremer? I will tell you.

I gift Outremer in the cause of unification with our Eastern Roman brothers.

I gift Outremer out of fealty to my former Lord and out of his respect to his widow.

I gift Outremer to honour a promise to our greatest ally, Emperor Isaac.

I gift Outremer to strengthen an alliance that once was strong, but now reels from the multiple blows of assassinations and riots.

I gift Outremer to remove a potential flashpoint for a fratricidal war. A war, I may say, that we have only narrowly averted recently, thanks to your and Count Becker's timely intervention.

I gift Outremer because there are only a handful of nobles who seem willing to serve in her cause.

Why do I gift Outremer? For all of those reasons and for none.

Above all, I gift Outremer to spite those who killed Siegfried.

AussieGiant
10-02-2007, 20:26
Putting down a number of reports handed to him by Bane, the Duke turns to the Kaiser and Hans.

Gentlemen, I can confirm that Dietrich as governor of Ragusa is under specific instructions to generate reinforcements for the two AHA's.

The forces under his command are those naturally created as part of my orders some years ago when I gave him his temporary governor status,

raising his eyebrows in distaste

of Ragusa due to some rather creative orders given to him some time ago.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 20:27
Dietrich von Dassel:

No Elberhard, you need to face the facts. I have done nothing wrong and it is for the protection of the people of Ragusa. I am amazed that Duke Arnold has not confirmed this.

-edit- Ah, it appears that he has. Please direct your paranoia elsewhere and leave me alone. Isn't depriving me of army duty enough for you people?

Privateerkev
10-02-2007, 20:49
Jan sits quietly through all of this. He raises an eyebrow when he hears Duke Hans's report. He tilts his head in contemplation, and then writes a note. He slides the note over to Gunther who leaves the Diet.

FactionHeir
10-02-2007, 21:10
Duke Arnold, Dassel,

I certainly realize that you wish to have two mighty household armies for Austria, but considering that either was above recommended strength already, or rather both at near full strength, training another army seems suspicious, would you not agree?

Besides, any regiment trained is Imperial first and foremost and only becomes part of a house once it is assigned as such by the chancellor. Considering then that Dassel refused to supply an Imperial army, the Emperor's Army no less, with fresh reinforcements when specifically requested by the chancellor for an important mission to hunt down another Lutheran heretic Peter, would you still see so kindly upon this man?

You must realize that something in your reasoning is not quite sound.

Oh, and before I forget. Luther is considered a heretic by the catholic church and the united roman church. Harboring heretics and protecting them deserves excommunication and worse, burning at the stake. I do not think that Austria would wish the inquisition to start their work at Ragusa and creep further north? In this interest, it would be best for all of us to consider Ragusa to be led by a rogue governor with heretical beliefs, which need to be brought to trial.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 21:15
Dietrich von Dassel:

I knew nothing of that request. Evidently it did not go through proper channels; Duke Arnold, is this the first time you've heard of it?

And in its interest, Hans, I do not believe that you are the one to decide whether or not I have gone rogue considering that, as much as you wish it, you are not Kaiser or Chancellor and Ragusa is not under your control. Furthermore, the forced removal of Luther would send the people of Ragusa into rioting, as well as a great number of the Reich's cities. Surely, we do not need yet another dose of this madness.

Once again, get off my back. All of you.

FactionHeir
10-02-2007, 21:31
Considering that I was informed by the chancellor no less that his request for the troops was refused by you, it is unfortunate that you do not remember doing so. But then of course, your ravings in the diet did seem to indicate a lack of clear thought.
Your lack of loyalty to your own house even makes one wonder whether you have any loyalties to the empire at all, other than to that heretic Luther and yourself.

Further to this, you seem not to have listened properly to my speech. As I said, any regiment trained is Imperial first. The chancellor may request them to be trained and sent at his whim, especially considering that Elberhard was Steward is the Emperor's absence and thus in full control over Imperial troops. Your refusal to provide them thus can be considered treason.

As for the Luther matter, if he is disposed of now, there may be some more unrest in the short term, yes. But if he is not, I fear what will happen to our glorious empire when half the populace believes the true word of Christ and the other half the word of the heretic Luther, leading to long term unrest until either is disposed, again with major unrest. Also, I doubt other Catholic nations would look kindly upon us disposing of the pope eventually should Luther continue to spread his venom and this will cause harsh punishment by both church and worldly powers.

Thus, removing Luther is not only the right thing to do, but also the most prudent and wise.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 21:33
Dietrich von Dassel:

Evidently the Chancellor was lying, because I received no such request. Do not continue to pursue your pointless agenda against me.

FactionHeir
10-02-2007, 21:35
I am impressed you would dare say the chancellor and emperor, no less one who came from your own house and has served god and done his bidding was a liar.
What would you consider Luther then? The true prophet?

Are you truly beyond redemption?

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 21:36
Dietrich von Dassel:

I would consider Luther a statesman whose word should be listened to and pondered. And you speak of treating people of our own House badly. I am still subject to your ridiculous inquisitions for no good reason.

FactionHeir
10-02-2007, 21:39
You may look around your house then and ponder why you are the only one without a county and without support from any other within.

A man who lacks of loyalty, judgement, justice and faith does not deserve to be treated well.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 21:40
Dietrich von Dassel:

You rewarded me with nothing, Hans, a clear insult when I had done nothing. Therefore I see no reason to obey your every whim.

-edit- test.

FactionHeir
10-02-2007, 21:43
If you have not been rewarded, would the more interesting question not be, whether you have done anything worth a reward other than punishment for repeated instigation in the diet, ridiculing nigh every member of this body who disagrees with your own beliefs and follow a heretic?

You were given options to earn rewards, yet you took up none where others have served Swabia and the Empire well. I would doubt that the majority of the diet would support your ridiculous claims.

Regardless. It is not time well spent to debate with one who is beyond redemption. Thus, continue your ravings at your own peril.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 21:50
Dietrich von Dassel:

You mean, I should have supported Kaiser Siegfried, the man who appointed you as Duke. Never mind that his policies were ridiculously unpopular and the root cause of all of this unrest.

Yes, I see how that would have been good for the Reich.

TinCow
10-02-2007, 21:53
The unification of Byzantium and the Reich is now the "true word of Christ," is it? Bah, don't make me laugh. This religious unification is nothing more than a political deal between the Kaiser and his Most Purple Counterpart. The Pope supports it because the Kaiser told him to support it. That is what happens when the Church is nothing more than a puppet of the Reich. The Pope would have proclaimed that his own uncle was a donkey if Siegfried had so ordered it. As a result, there is nothing 'divine' about this 'unification' with the Byzantines.

This in turn means that Alexander Luther and his followers cannot be heretics simply for expressing their displeasure with such a political move. They are not contesting the word of God, they are contesting the word of the Kaiser, his pet Pope, and that Purple Ponce in the East. Furthermore, the Pope is most certainly not infallible. There is no Catholic doctrine that says such and therefore it is entirely appropriate to rebuke the Pope when he is himself acting against the will of God. We have seen this ourselves in Kaiser Heinrich's just war against Pope Gregory. Clearly God sided with the Reich in that matter, even though the Pope publicly declared Heinrich to be excommunicated.

While I personally do not agree with much of what Luther is preaching, it is most certainly not heresy and I see no problems with his statements as long as order is maintained. I will not permit any Lutheran within Bavaria to be persecuted by Duke Hans, the Kaiser, the Pope, or any other man. If a Lutheran commits a crime or incites others to do so within Bavarian territory, then Bavarian men will deal with him appropriately. Any non-Bavarian who commits such an act within any Bavarian province will soon find the full force of all Bavarian armies against him.

And before any of you use my statements here to accuse me of sabotaging the relationship with Byzantium, let me remind you that I am a firm supporter of the alliance with Byzantium. Indeed, at this very moment a Bavarian army stands at the gates of Thessalonica, which it will assault and take at the cost of many Bavarian lives, so that province can then be given to the Eastern Emperor. It is entirely within my power to recall that army, should I wish to do so, but I do not wish to do so. Such an action will aid our allies and that I will support. It is the unification that I oppose, not the Byzantines themselves, no matter how ridiculous their clothing may be.

OverKnight
10-02-2007, 22:00
A message arrives from Matthias Steffen:

The loss of Kaiser Siegfried is regretful. He was a good man who made poor decisions. Kaiser Elberhard compounds this folly by continuing a failed policy of appeasement towards a lesser nation.

While he and King Jan abandon Outremer, I will not. I have already stated my reasons for doing this and will not bore any of you by repeating them. If Outremer is given to the Greeks, we will double the size of their Empire, and we have already given them Iconium and Sofia. This is not negotiation, it is robbery.

I again ask the Dukes to call an Emergency Session to put a halt to this farce.

I wish Duke Hans good luck in his investigation. I hope his skills as an investigator have improved from when he was trying to dig up dirt on Kaiser Siegfried in his attempt to supplant him as Emperor. In hindsight I wish he had been successful.

What of the Assassins Guild? Have we talked to them? I remember they threatened the lives of our Generals near the end of my last term. Steward Elberhard also refused them a Master Guildhouse in Stettin recently. Of course since the Duke is a skilled investigator, I'm sure he's already considered it. I am also sure his investigation will be completely impartial and free of any political machinations.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 22:17
Dietrich von Dassel:

In light of my very own Duke calling me a heretic, traitor, and incapable administrator I hereby renounce all loyalties to Swabia until the House gains a new Duke. This is absolutely ridiculous.

I remain, however, as always, loyal to the Holy Roman Empire.

Stig
10-02-2007, 22:48
I don't have time to listen to all the non-sense in this room.
But let me tell you this, if Matthias Steffen is going to stay in his city to defend it he has my support. Hell, I'd gladly help him, but I'm not there too help.

He who gives away the Outremer betrays his forefathers.

I suggest that the true Germans make ready to defend what will be left of the Reich, it is time we will get a proper leader, one that stands out. Not one that gifts away land that has been won by German blood, to gay purple loving people.

I can tell you one thing, Peter von Kastillien is a true German, and he is currently in prison because he had the guts to do what we say. He's no traitor, no criminal, he's a bloody hero.

GeneralHankerchief
10-02-2007, 23:05
Dietrich von Dassel:

I apologize Duke Ansehelm, I thought much worse of you. Clearly you are a German patriot and I regret ever siding against you.

TinCow
10-02-2007, 23:32
While I do not support an attack on our Byzantine allies, I do believe that Peter von Kastilien acted out of loyalty to the Reich and the desire to do what is right. In consideration of his lifetime of service to Franconia and the Reich, I join with Duke Ansehelm in calling for his release. Let Peter's own Duke determine the punishment which is warranted for him in this matter. His history of service is more than sufficient to counteract a foolhardy move that was the result of a passion of the heart, rather than a rational mind.

RoadKill
10-02-2007, 23:49
I also agree, Peter should be realeased! He only attacked our Byzantium allies for the sake of the Reich, is that not what we all want, Loyalty to the Reich! We should even follow his footsteps, and continue where he has left off!

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 03:15
Dassel,

My how you whine when you only have yourself to blame for your situation. Your the one that agreed to do the dirty work of others. Your the one that agreed to be the public face of a group of people who were trying to overthrow the Kaiser's prerogative. Your the one that harbored a man who has advocated violence against the Holy Father as well as innocent civilians. Your the one that keeps agitating matters with your own Duke in hope that some benefactor will come and sweep you away from the cruel fate that has befallen you. Your the one that has raised an army on the very doorsteps of the Papal capital while harboring a man who wishes to supplant the Pope. Surely any reasonable man could see why we would look at you with suspicion yet you act like your the lone persecuted populist rebel. You reap what you sow.

Duke Lothar,

It was Pope Abbate himself that pushed for religious re-unification. He himself had the humility and humbleness to admit he is not infallible. He is a great man that you and I could never hope to emulate. But at least I try to be faithful.

Duke Arnold,

After our Kaiser was assassinated on your lands, surely you can see how we would raise an eyebrow to the fact that you claim to have authorized Dassel to raise an extra army right on the Pope's doorstep. Also, could you be good enough to leave Kaiser Elberhard's wife out of your ranting? Show some respect.

Duke Ansehelm,

You never cared one lick for Outremer so spare us your false platitudes. You have done everything but publicly endorse Peter's rebellion. You refused to fire him. Even now he stands ready to inherit all of Franconia if you die. As for me betraying my father by gifting Outremer, leave him out of this. He never cared for you or your whole family. My father warned me that the Kastilians would drive this duchy into the ground. You've always had your narrow vision only on the Russians and Poles in front of you. You've sure picked a convenient time to pretend your cosmopolitan.

To the whole Diet,

This circus has gone on long enough. The Kaiser's absence has made some believe that they can ignore the clear power relationships established by the Charter. Well, the Kaiser is here and some seem to resent those power relationships being re-established. I get charged for being a lapdog when all I have done is what everyone should have been doing all along. I just didn't go off and run to grab as much power as my greedy little hands could carry like some of you did. I refused to take advantage of the Kaiser's absence. Now there are sour grapes among some of you because things aren't as easy to get away with. If you don't like something, go through the proper procedures. Do not incite rebellion. Do not make your army mutiny. Do not form a secret cabal so you can usurp power for yourself. And do not assassinate the Kaiser all because he did not bow to your petty whims.

GeneralHankerchief
10-03-2007, 03:17
Dietrich von Dassel:

You are speaking in tongues, von Hamburg. I've never heard of such a thing in my life. Do you realize how stupid you look? Do you realize that you are pointing your grubby little finger at the entire Diet in this supposed plot to assassinate the Kaiser? Yes, yes, we all conspired to do it together. That must be it! Never mind we could have just called an Emergency Session. Fool.

Once again, to all who doubt my motives: I am raising an army for the protection of the people of Ragusa. It seems to be working. I suggest all of you who get in a spot of bother (how's that new Cathedral in Damascus holding up?) try it sometime.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 03:20
It's amazing how fast you can shift from being magically prescient to completely ignorant.

Let me know how it's working for you.

GeneralHankerchief
10-03-2007, 03:22
Dietrich von Dassel:

You paranoid maniac, you have just accused the entire Diet of killing the Kaiser. And yet I'm ignorant.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 03:29
I did no such thing. I only told them what not to do. I challenge you to find the words where I say otherwise.

Your word twisting almost has a twinge of desperation in it. Can you at least try to accomplish your political goals by using the truth? Are you even capable of telling the truth?

Bah, soon Duke Hans will have the situation well in hand. By harboring that criminal, you have enabled all of the violence and death that has crept across this land. Him being in custody will be a small comfort in this dark time.

GeneralHankerchief
10-03-2007, 03:38
Dietrich von Dassel:

I'm not desperate. I'm pissed off. I'm pissed off that somehow, a pretentious, snivelling, Holier-Than-Thou, lapdoggish, homosexual, blinded, stubborn, stinking, smelling, desert rat, suck-up, wimp, flaming homosexual Mama's-boy could be considered dignified and a voice of reason whilst I am a pariah!!!

You have no authority to determine whether that great man Alexander Luther is a criminal. You have no idea what his capture will mean to the Reich. You have no idea even what you just said, twisting your own words and mine to suit your purpose, God knows what it is.

First of all, you have somehow accused me of being in this cabal, and somehow being the public face of it. Yes, this cabal, if it exists, has certainly protected me. Look at me. I have no County, no House, no power. Moron.

Secondly, in addition to what I said earlier, I now add you are a flaming hypocrite, yelling at Duke Ansehelm for daring to put you and your dear father in the same sentence, and at the same time attacking his entire family.

Thirdly, and finally, you have told the entire Diet not to assassinate the Kaiser. Specifically, in a manner that has already occurred. Ah yes, you meant "don't do it again." I see.

May God have mercy on us all and have the good sense to strike you mute so that we may end your ridiculous, paranoid, rantings.

Stuperman
10-03-2007, 03:47
I must agree with what Mien Duke Lothar says, Peter was acting out of concern the Riech, not attempting to grab power. His release will send the message that the ideals of the riech still stand, and that politics won't come before them

It also disturbs me that Florence has been implicated in the Kaiser's death, Bavaria as a whole is loyal to the Riech, and the idea of re-unification, infact between Naples, Palmero, and Thessaloníki no duchy has done more to that end.

And Jan, the only thing pope Abbate care about is selling indulgences, the more people he can sell to the better, that's why he pushed for this arrangement.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 04:17
Dassel,

I didn't say "don't do it again". I said, "do not...". Also, I do not judge you competent enough to divine meaning from my words.

I didn't attack Ansehelm's family. I only stated my father's opinion of it. My father was a very blunt man God rest his soul.

As to the rest, the worth of your opinion falls faster every time you open your mouth.

As for Luther, I will pray for both your soul and his, that God will show you both the True Path.

Jan, folds his hands, bows his head, and starts praying

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 05:29
Jan stops praying and gets up. He grabs some reports and a map and sits back down at his desk. Unrolling the map, Jan matches points on the map with coordinates from the reports. He looks up with a furrowed brow.

Ok, maybe someone can explain this to me. Why does Ragusa have the equivalent of a Household Army garrisoned within it's walls? Both Austrian armies are pretty full at the moment.

According to the report from Hans's spy, the garrison has 3 regiments of spearmen, 3 regiments of footknights, 3 regiments of missile troops, 2 regiments of cavalry, and... 3 regiments of catapults.

6 catapults? What possible use could catapults have in garrisoning a settlement from internal dissent? Are you going to hurl flaming boulders at the crowds? The amount of troops present are far in excess to what is needed to garrison a castle and maintain civil order.

Yes, I know I will hear the claim that this is just to be a replacement force for Austrian armies. But this map shows that both Austrian armies are much closer to Bran than they are to Ragusa. And Bran has the ability to make cannons. So, Ragusa has 6 obsolete pieces of artillery far from either Austrian army.

But those 6 catapults are very very close to somewhere else...

Stuperman
10-03-2007, 05:44
Fredericus Erlach bursts into the diet

My lords, I'm happy to report that the french incursion has been halted, unfortunately, while setting up camp on the bridge west of the alps, we heard screams for help, I immediately sent out search parties. Alas when I got there, I found a papal inquisitor dead, torn apart by wolves, aparently the lord failed to tend to all his flock.

http://img32.picoodle.com/img/img32/9/10/2/t_inquisitor2m_456941e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/9/10/2/f_inquisitor2m_456941e.jpg&srv=img32)

What concerns me more Jan, is the byzantine army marching on Rome.

Northnovas
10-03-2007, 05:56
From the Austrian bench stands a very distinct individual. One who feels a little uncomfortable in the settings for it’s been a long time since he had spoken in the House but presents a man of gentleness and authority…

Kaiser, Speaker, Electors!

It has been a long time since I have sat at this bench and debated the issues of the day. It is good to be on dry land after such a long voyage. Congratulations Fredericus on your victory. That is the news I like to hear on the floor. Smiling and looking towards the Kaiser

First Kaiser Elberhard, I pledge my allegiance to you and wish you a long and prosperous rein over the Reich. Bowing deeply in the Kaiser’s direction and then facing the Electors…..

I am shocked to hear of Siegfried’s death and near Austrian lands! I assure my Kaiser this House is loyal to the Crown. ….looking upwards and taking a deep breath he begins…..

I am told in my absence there is a circus in this Diet and I believe it because the performers are still at it!!

King Jan, you stand before this House and accuse every Elector here of some ill matter of disrespect or disloyalty to the Crown yet you set the worse example of an Elector or Nobleman when speaking in this House. I keep hearing where everyone else has erred but you!

Electors, the Outremer is lost and was lost in 1260 when with the first sacking of the city by the Egyptians and Papacy lost its capital moving back to Europe. We lost!! That’s was the end of the Outremer. Yet for the past 50 years we have continued the Charade by appointing King’s and Crusader Counts. For what I ask you!?

To fight non Christians in relentless battles for to protect something that no longer existed. The mandate was gone. Duke Ansehelm you say of the German blood spilled by our fore fathers those First Crusaders who had a mandate for Christianity. That is who let down when we lost Jerusalem. The lost lands now are a completely different matter that is not worth spilling of German blood. There are buildings of worship in the Outremer and the Reich destroyed. Looking amongst the Electors….

A man’s life of work wiped out not by the sword but the pen. The damage is done. I am glad I left because I had foreseen what was coming when the words of the mandate were only on paper and that spirit of the men was gone. It was not in their hearts to be the defenders of the faith and it showed by the Crown’s approach to the Outremer. To know that Damascus is smoldering in ruins breaks my heart. The one diamond in the rough destroyed. I could not bear to see the waste that is there now or see the reason to keep an army there. What of our men that are still there?? When do they return?? Why should we be left to defend Byzantine holdings?? .. looking around the room … coughs coming from the backbenches. There is no Pope in Jerusalem.

In fact I hear the Papacy abdicated in the reunification. The Unified Roman Church!? I cannot accept such an act of fornication. My faith will not be destroyed by the whims of an alliance with a culture who only holds contempt for us and does not wish to have a union of an empire. These are very dark time gentleman. ….lowering his voice…..again scanning the room.
Very dark times and we sit here watching the circus. Indeed how many of are you laughing. I am not!!! Our Kaiser is murdered and we have Duke Hans investigate who had an issue with the late Kaiser’s ascension to the throne and he blames the Bavarian House for the act??? Then questions Austrian House about its army build up. Everyone is pointing fingers and they don’t know what they are pointing at!

Here we are arguing about grammar tense and name calling when some cities in the Reich are at the boiling point. The Fraconian Peter, is he a hero and Heir to the throne? Why are we not discussing these issues? (I guess the sarcasm is lost in the text.)

Elector Dassel speaking from the heart and not the head very much like our King in his younger days challenging Dukes before the House, this childless bantering is not for this House take it to the Tavern. This is a House of debate by nobles not peasants.

Young Dassel has a “guest” residing in Ragusa with him. Who is this Luther? Is he an enemy of the state? He does not call for political change, he sees the Papacy abdicated so he questions why we are still following the Pope. Those are some good questions we should be asking ourselves. There is only one God and all men are equal before him. Buying the high priest favours does not advance us before the Lord. Our day of reckoning will come.

Electors, Let us focus on the issues. If we have no control over the gifting of lands then let’s debate what we have control over.

1. What is our diplomatic status and what are we doing against enemy states of the Reich?
2. What is Peter’s status?
3. What of this Luther and the implications of his removal from Ragusa.
4. What is the strength of all House Armies and what of the troops in the Outremer, do they return home or disband?
5. What is our faith so the people of the Reich know?

Zirn looks through the room again and exasperated look on his face as he slowly sits down to his seat…….

AussieGiant
10-03-2007, 10:09
Standing as soon as Karl Zirn sits, the Duke nods in acknowledgement to his senior most noble.

A few points my Lords.

Firstly Duke Hans, your comments about troops being Imperial are entirely your opinion and not accurate in my view. These troops are Austrian men, authorised by me, to man Austrian garrison and Austrian Field Armies. The fact that this has happens proves my point.

If you haven’t noticed please check the Austrian Chamber reports, I ordered Dietrich to maintain the unit surge during this time of escalation and it has turned out to be a correct move.

I have had the Kaiser murdered inside my Duchy, I’m personally extending my 2nd AHA to take Krakow for the Franconian’s, and there is unrest over half my land…combine that with the recent attacks on clergy and my subsequent orders to have them all escorted, then YES there are many more units than in times past. And I’d say they are an astute move given the situation!!

Therefore Duke Hans, you’ve made you investigations so I’d ask you to remove yourself from Austrian Lands. The last thing I am requiring is more armed troops in my Duchy.

Turning to King Jan

Of course all this can be applied to your comments as well. PLUS let me remind you, my loyalty and that of my nobles is without question and the actions of Becker and the 1st AHA prove that King Jan.

If you wish to gift your administrative responsibilities to the Byzantines then you are mad. I’ve seen the life work of my family in Outremer gone in the blink of a pen and based on some back room deal that seems to have no basis in reality.

God knows why any noble of this realm would believe that giving so much of our hard work to another nation for the simple need for reunification is beyond me. We could easily extend our selves past and around the Byzantines, maintain our alliance and continue on without losing a thing!!!

As for the religious reunification of the church, then is only a huge amount of naivety, that anyone can believe this is not just another secular deal. We own the church for god sake. How many Popes have been Holy Roman Cardinals in the last 100 year!!! The number will shock you gentlemen.

Turning to Karl Zirn.

Please make your way as soon as possible to the 1st AHA so you may take over command.

Looking at Kaiser

I assume you have no issue with this my Lord.

Stig
10-03-2007, 10:17
Ansehelm:
I suggest Jan does not make too much enemies, afterall, soon he will be the same rank as Herr von Dassel, no county, no command, nothing.

I have fought all my life for the Reich, I defended it, partly due to me the Russians and Poles, with their vast armies never managed to broke through. I know what is best for the Reich. I have seen men die for the Reich, charging the Polish and Russian hordes, not because it was for their own good, but for the Reich. Jan your own brother, and don't give me some lecture, he never liked you, I knew him better than you did, died for the Reich, he did not die for some foolish unification, I died to save the Reich. I did not march all the way to Moscow to see this at my return.


And I totally agree Herr Zirn, if I would have the choice of keeping or laeving Outremer I would leave it.
However, I would not give it to people who never did anything to deserve it. These men are the worst soldiers in the world, they have been pushed back all their time, they never won a proper battle. And we want to give them something that is German, why do they deserve it? We gave them Sofia, and they managed to lose it in 2 to 4 years. What will happen to the Outremer? Will these Greeks lose that as well. Then what's the use?
We'll have two armies, in Jeruzalem and they'll be unsupported, brave men, I'd call the foolish, especially if you have to rely on the Byzantines to protect you. I marched to Moscow without support, but atleast I didn't have the Byzantines to defend me.

Northnovas
10-03-2007, 13:44
Karl Zirn:

Ah yes, Ansehelm you are correct. How could I forget our other real estate tranasctions they receive land from us then sell it or give it away. Maybe the Horse Lords are looking? They couldn't take from us maybe the Byzantines can set them up with a nice offer or possible the Turks or Egyptians? It did not cost them anything for the lands, any offer will be accepted.

TinCow
10-03-2007, 14:08
A Bavarian man-at-arms enters at the rear of the Diet. When there is a pause in conversation, he approaches Duke Steffen, hands him a sealed letter, and bends down to whisper into his ear. At first the Duke nods, then smiles and claps his hands.

Excellent! Excellent! Thank you, Wilhelm, you are dismissed. Convey my appreciation to the captain of my guard.

The man straightens up and strides out of the Diet. Lothar opens the letter, reads it, then stands to address the Diet.

I bring great news, Electors! The Kaiser’s killer has been caught! My men followed some leads which were gained through soldiers disguised as rogues in some of the baser Florentine taverns. It seems that a wealthy Milanese nobleman living in Florence, some cousin of the last Duke, I believe, wished to gain some amount of revenge for the destruction of his rebellious nation’s short-lived independence. He sought out like-minded Milanese who were still living within their former homes, now part of Bavaria. We all know that those mercantile dogs were far better at finances than they were at war, so it is not surprising that they were able to raise such a considerable sum without it being noticed.

However, simple wealth is not enough to accomplish the murder of a Kaiser. No, the Milanese formed an alliance with another group that is far more adept at these kinds of things: the Assassins’ Guild! Apparently they too have been disgruntled with the Reich as of late. I had heard rumors that they had threatened the lives of some Electors if their demands were not met and it is public knowledge that, then Prinz, Elberhard refused to allow them to build a ‘Master’ Guildhouse in Stettin only a short while ago. It seems that their grievances, combined with the immense monies supplied by the treacherous Milanese, were enough to gain their cooperation. With Milanese gold and Assassins’ Guild agents, the mercenaries were located and hired and the dark deed was done.

Lothar holds up the letter.

I hold here in my hand the signed confession of one Giovanni Legnano, the ringleader of this entire circus of treachery, and a resident of the good city of Florence. He admits to his crimes and freely names the Assassins’ Guild and several other Milanese noblemen within Bavaria as accomplices. My household guard is currently hunting down the rest of these animals and I can assure you that they will not be long for this world. As for Giovanni Legnano himself, he has already paid for the sins he has committed. He expired shortly after signing this confession, as a result of the rigorous questioning that my men put him through. I admit that I would have liked to have seen him stretched on the rack in front of the Diet itself, but we all know the side-effects that often result from a proper judicial torturing. These other accomplices will undoubtedly require similar questioning methods to get them to admit their guilt, but I will order my personal surgeon to be present so that they may be kept alive for as long as possible.

The one avenue I cannot pursue is the Assassins’ Guild, for they are not based within Bavaria. I urge all Electors whose lands harbor these vile creatures to have their guildhouses burned to the ground and their members executed on the spot.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 14:30
Count Zirn,

I point to your past comment:


King Jan, you stand before this House and accuse every Elector here of some ill matter of disrespect or disloyalty to the Crown yet you set the worse example of an Elector or Nobleman when speaking in this House. I keep hearing where everyone else has erred but you!

I did no such thing. I specifically used the word "some". You use the word "every". "Some" does not equal "every Elector". By saying "every Elector", you are claiming that I accused everyone in here when I clearly did not. You seem to be taking lessons from the "Dassel school of debate". I thought you were above twisting words. You disappoint me. Though you disappointed me long ago when you refused to have your votes match your lofty ideals. And then there is this comment:


The Fraconian Peter, is he a hero and Heir to the throne? Why are we not discussing these issues?

I think we are not discussing this issue because we didn't know about it. Prince Peter? Where on Earth did you hear that from?

Duke Arnold,

I am afraid I must disagree with your concept of troop orders. The Duke does not order his Citadels to produce an extra third House Army. The Duke asks the Chancellor for forces that are above and beyond the minimal requirements for the two House Armies. Therefore, if the troops in Ragusa were raised without the Chancellor's authority, then they are illegal. All you have done is admit complicity in what is essentially an illegal act.

Also you contradict yourself. You use this quote to justify having 3 House Armies: "then YES there are many more units than in times past. And I’d say they are an astute move given the situation!!" Then you say this to justify asking Duke Hans to leave: "The last thing I am requiring is more armed troops in my Duchy." So, you both need more troops and less troops?

Also, I didn't need to be reminded of your loyalty but I find it interesting that you seemed to feel the need to announce it. I am just going to assume your loyal until I see actions otherwise. Now, I think you'll agree that there is no need for 6 catapults in Ragusa and you won't mind if they are immediately disbanded.

Duke Ansehelm,

Sorry but I don't believe in taking the easy quiet path. I will say what I believe needs to be said.

I notice how you keep saying this: "I did not march all the way to Moscow to see this at my return." You bring this up every time you don't like something. It's like you believe that going on a foolish pointless suicide mission somehow gives you some extra amount of authority. I have this question for you. Why did you march all the way to Moscow and back? You keep telling us why you didn't. Now tell us why you did.

When Lothar speaks, Jan just raises an eyebrow.

Tamur
10-03-2007, 14:50
*Fritz von Kastilien speaks quietly with a scribe, who begins writing what look like figures for summation. Fritz rises from the Franconian benches and nods towards the Bavarians.*

Well done, Duke Lothar! The speed with which you have found the guilty party is remarkable. I hope the Diet will be allowed to question at least one of the accomplices in this plot. I am tempted to call for the crucifixion of these miserable Milanese along the main roads out of Rome, as was done in the old Empire. But perhaps this would be frowned upon by the current Pope.

Stig
10-03-2007, 15:10
Ansehelm:
Why I marched to Moscow, simple, to punish the Orthodox, the Russians. And it has been a grand success. Since then we have hardly seen Russians around, they foolishly sieged Thorn once, but soon they were gone. Now we got only the Poles to deal with.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 15:15
Ok, so for how much longer are you going to where it like a badge of honor? Most of the people in here seemed to not even care that you went. A lot of us voted for it only for political reasons. You almost seem bitter that your adventure into Russia was not given more respect from some of us. Were you expecting a parade? Well, you did at least get a replacement House Army out of the deal. You didn't even have to fire Peter as Steward like the Kaiser had originally asked. To bad my brother had to die but he did seem to be one of the few people to believe in what you were doing. So, at least he died doing what he wanted, may his soul rest in peace.

Tamur
10-03-2007, 15:23
*A messenger arrives at the Franconian bench holding a scroll. Fritz von Kastilien speaks with his scribe, and the messenger, and reads the delivered parchment. He startles slightly, and rises again.*

Duke Lothar, I hesitate to inform you in front of the Diet, but this may be good for all to hear.

A message was just delivered to my apartments instead of directly here, and my staff have brought it to me just now. Instead of describing it, let me simply read it. Here is the text:

*Fritz holds the parchment at arms length and squints*

Fritz, I am a member of the Diet. I cannot give my name in case assassins are lurking about even in Rome. But I have reason to believe that Lothar is a liar. Meet me at...

*Fritz looks up*

Well, I should not give the location or the time, but apparently some coward wishes to pass information along.

*Fritz looks at the Bavarian benches, and waves the parchment*

The word of a coward is hardly anything to go on. But, if this is true, Lothar, this is a most serious charge. I will find out what this figure in the shadow has to say, and report back to the Diet immediately.

And if it is a false charge, the person responsible for this must surely be punished for their impudence!

TinCow
10-03-2007, 15:44
Thank you for that information, Fritz. It is certainly cowardly to level accusations at me behind my back, but I would have been surprised if such rumors were not being discussed at all. Had the same events transpired in any other House, I would certainly have been skeptical of the result. I freely admit that the Milanese involvement seems to be too convenient, but sometimes things simply are exactly as they seem. I have heard of the work of an English Franciscan monk named William of Ockham, who has expressed a similar opinion. He says "entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity" and in this case we have clear evidence that vengeful Milanese dogs and treacherous assassins conspired and murdered our Kaiser. The hatred of both these groups for the Reich is well known, as are their respective abilities at finance and murder. While it may be convenient that these men have been discovered to be the culprits, it is also logical and consistent with the facts.

I will, of course, freely respond to any doubts that may exist about my involvement in such a matter. As I am completely innocent, I see no reason to avoid questioning of any kind.

Warmaster Horus
10-03-2007, 16:15
A message comes from Friedrich Karolinger. A messenger enters, and speaks up quickly, while there is a small break in the agitated discussion.


Members of the Diet! I have heard that the murderers of the Kaiser were found. I have heard that those who commissioned the murder have been found as well.

I wonder now, even far away, why? Why did they decide to kill him? What could the Kaiser have done to prevent what was almost finished, the annihilation of the Milanese? Why did the Assassin's Guild employ mercenaries for this very important job? I believe they would wish it to be professionnal, and the Assassins are just that: Assassins. Killers. Murderers. I, personnally, believe they would have done the act themselves.

Respectfully,
Friedrich Karolinger, Commander of Bavarian Household Army Otto von Kassel.

The messenger finishes, and leaves as quickly as he had begun to talk.

AussieGiant
10-03-2007, 16:28
Duke Arnold,

I am afraid I must disagree with your concept of troop orders. The Duke does not order his Citadels to produce an extra third House Army. The Duke asks the Chancellor for forces that are above and beyond the minimal requirements for the two House Armies. Therefore, if the troops in Ragusa were raised without the Chancellor's authority, then they are illegal. All you have done is admit complicity in what is essentially an illegal act.

Also you contradict yourself. You use this quote to justify having 3 House Armies: "then YES there are many more units than in times past. And I’d say they are an astute move given the situation!!" Then you say this to justify asking Duke Hans to leave: "The last thing I am requiring is more armed troops in my Duchy." So, you both need more troops and less troops?

Also, I didn't need to be reminded of your loyalty but I find it interesting that you seemed to feel the need to announce it. I am just going to assume your loyal until I see actions otherwise. Now, I think you'll agree that there is no need for 6 catapults in Ragusa and you won't mind if they are immediately disbanded.



King Jan,

If your thoughts on the recruiting process are apparently accurate, then how do you explain the physical presence of troops in Ragusa?

Either I'm right and the Chancellor does not have the level of control you and Duke Hans believe, or, I've asked the Chancellor and he has authorised them and therefore they exist.

Pick one.

As for your attempt at twisting my words, as you so enjoy pointing out to others, then try this for a concept towards troop increases.

I'm not contradicting myself FROM my point of view at all. I do need more troops and I have them, what I don't need is any troops in my Duchy not under my command or under the command of Austrian Nobles, which as you might of noticed is what Duke Hans is. Is that being too unreasonable King Jan…considering I AM talking about MY £$%^ing Duchy?

Is that clear enough for you or do you need me to spell it out further?

As for my announcement of loyalty, then it was your comment;

After our Kaiser was assassinated on your lands, surely you can see how we would raise an eyebrow to the fact that you claim to have authorized Dassel to raise an extra army right on the Pope's doorstep.

That I decided to interpret as you questioning at my right to raise troops and my relationship to the Kaiser...is that fine by you or would you care to elaborate on your meaning?

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 16:43
Duke Arnold,

The Chancellor recruits troops. I challenge you to find the point in the Charter that says otherwise.

Each house gets two house armies. The rest of the troops are Imperial. I challenge you to find the point in the Charter that says otherwise.

The Prince army can go where it pleases as long as there is coordination between the Prince army commander and the Chancellor. I challenge you to find the point in the Charter that says otherwise.

If the Chancellor did indeed recruit the troops in Ragusa, then we have no problem. If he didn't then those troops are in fact illegal and need to be immediately disbanded. By covering for the raising of an illegal army, you are in fact enabling this action and are complicit in any action the army commits in the future.

There is an illegal army near the Papal capital. The army is led by a man who is no friend to the current Pope. And the commander is harboring a man who is definitely no friend to the current Pope. And the army has catapults when there seems no need for there to be any present. Any claim that these catapults are for keeping the peace are laughable. Any claim that these catapults are meant to be reinforcements for Austrian House armies is laughable due to the fact that both Austrian HAs are much closer to Bran than Ragusa and Bran can build cannons.

If this army is used to take over the Papal capital, like I fear it might be, then I will hold you responsible for helping it happen.

So, you are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Pick one.

AussieGiant
10-03-2007, 17:07
Jan,

You've avoided answering any of my questions. Well done.

You've also now decided that your opinion is law, and by challenging me to quote whatever piece of legislation is applicable you've signed your own end to the debate.

Why don't you tell me where it says what I have done is actually illegal?

If the Chancellor is the only person able to recruit troops then how did they come into existence?

I've asked for troops to be recruited, the fact they have not been deployed to either of the AHA's doesn't suddenly make them illegal.

As for the Duke Hans and the Imperial Army, then I've asked the Kaiser to haven them leave Austrian lands as his investigation has been complete. Therefore I have co-orindated my wishes with the lords in question. Does that meet with your approval?

As for your massive logic jump to then have me suddenly responsible for anything they do seems a little strange. If they are illegal and therefore not under my command then I'm not responsible at all, in fact I’d appreciate you ceasing to make judgements on what I do and don’t do in my own area of responsibility.

As you can see I can dance the debating dance with you all night Jan, but in reality it accomplishes nothing but work for the scribes

So why don't you stop bothering the scribes with ceaseless words and do something about it if you don’t like it!!!

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 17:33
Duke Arnold,

I had wished to spare the Diet from a legal lesson but if you insist...

The power of the Chancellor to recruit troops is enshrined in 2.1: 2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.


The chancellor is only constrained in this by CA 11.5, CA 5.1, and CA 12.6. Any recruitment not authorized by the Chancellor is illegal. I have it from the Kaiser personally that he did not authorize the recruitment of the army at Ragusa nor does he control them. Therefore, the army is illegal and your assistance in providing political cover implicates you.

House Armies are enshrined in CA 5.1 and CA 12.6.: Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:
Quote:
1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

and Charter Amendment 12.6: (1) Each House will have TWO standing Household Armies. They will operate according to CA5.1 in all respects, but have separate commanders appointed by the Duke.
(2) Outremer will have two standing armies. They will operate in accordance with CA9.1, but have separate commanders appointed by the King.
(3) The Kaiser and Prinz will each command standing Imperial armies, of the guideline size given in CA5.1. The Kaiser and Prinz can each give orders for their army during full Diet sessions. They are expected to personally command their own armies but can nominate a replacement commander at any time if they are too busy attending to civil matters. The Chancellor and the Kaiser/Prinz are expected to liase closely over the use of the deployment of the Kaiser/Prinz's army.

Therefore anything above these two forces is Imperial and not subject to control by the Duke. Both Ragusa and the Prince army are Imperial forces. Unless you are claiming that the Ragusa army is yours. That of course would implicate you in owning an illegal army.

The movement of the Prince army is enshrined in CA 12.6 which I have already shown. As you can see, movement of this army is between the army commander and the Chancellor. The Duke has no authority to order this army to do anything. He can ask though.

So, according to section 2.1 of the Charter, the Ragusa garrison is illegal. According to CA 5.1 and CA 12.6, the Ragusa garrison is above and beyond the authority of the Duke of Austria. According to CA 12.6, the Prince's army is above the authority of the Duke of Austria. Therefore, by claiming that the Ragusa garrison is a legitimate Austrian Army and by preventing Duke Hans to disband it, you are admitting to helping break three laws at least.

In light of my belief that you are committing illegal acts, it is now entirely appropriate to question your loyalty. By covering for this illegal army, you are responsible for it's actions.

TinCow
10-03-2007, 17:39
Count Karolinger raises important questions. While I currently have no more information than I was provided with earlier today, I believe some logical reasoning will produce the likely answer. For the Milanese, while killing Siegfried would certainly not bring back their lost rebellion, not all men act only out of expectation for future gain. Italians such as the Milanese, and particularly the Sicilians, are well known to act out of revenge long after their enemies have forgotten about their previous conflicts. It seems to me that this Milanese traitor and his brethren simply wished to harm the Reich as compensation for their own losses.

As for the Assassins' Guild not attacking the Kaiser directly, it is well-known that Siegfried survived multiple assassination attempts at the hands of agents of the Danish King. As we all know, Guilds represent a single force and are managed by a central authority beyond the control of any single nation. Therefore the Assassins' Guild itself was already responsible for at least two attempts on his life. It seems obvious to me that instead of risking yet another failed assassination, they decided that the more efficient method would be to overwhelm him with numbers in a direct assault. Since assassins are trained to operate with stealth and kill without confrontation, I doubt they would have the numbers or the wherewithal to field a full force on a battlefield. Thus, they hired mercenaries for that role. It should also not be forgotten that Siegfried counted a Master of the Assassins' Guild amongst his personal retinue. That man could easily have betrayed the Kaiser's location and signalled the proper moment for ambush to the waiting mercenaries.

Of course, this is just speculation on my part, but it seems like the logical answer to these unknown questions. Perhaps when some of these other man are captured, we will learn more.

econ21
10-03-2007, 18:02
Elberhard: Duke Arnold, King Jan - I am most dissatisfied at the turn the discussion of the Ragusa affair has taken.

The army being raised there is an unauthorised one. I did not request its raising. If Duke Arnold did, he did not inform me. So long as the army remains commanded by a committed Lutheran, it is unsafe to allow it to be camped so close to the home of the Holy Father in Durazzo.

Earlier, I agreed to Duke Arnold's request that Duke Hans army be called off Ragusa and that the Duke be allowed to take control of the situation. I now see that my agreement was unwise.

Duke Hans will take his army - formerly the Kaiser's army, now we can call it the Prinz's army - and blockade the Lutherans at Ragusa. He will take no further action until Duke Arnold arrives to help resolve the situation, but the Lutherans will not be allowed to levy more men from the countryside nor to leave the Citadel.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 18:08
King Jan bows to the Kaiser and sits down without saying anything further.

TinCow
10-03-2007, 18:09
While you men are so busy trying to start a civil war in the Reich, I would like to request the aid of the Kaiser and the King of Outremer. I have received word that Adana has been gifted to Byzantium as planned. My brother Matthias has stated several times that he would fight such a move. I was therefore very surprised to see that this had been accomplished without any disturbance whatsoever. As a result, I attempted to contact my brother in Outremer to discover what had transpired.

I have been unable to do so. It seems that no one in Outremer knows where my brother is at all. He has simply disappeared along with a group of his most trusted soldiers. This disturbs me greatly, as it should the entire Diet. Not only is Matthias my brother, but is also the longest-serving Chancellor the Reich has ever known. I therefore request all possible aid in locating him as soon as possible and ensuring that he has come to no harm. Since King Jan is still nominally in charge of the forces of Outremer, I fully expect him to lead up this investigation. Of this, I am glad, for I know his chivalrous nature will not let him abandon one of his men.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 18:14
Duke Lothar,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I knew of Count Matthias's intention to hold Adana. I assumed that when the hand-over happened, he would come south to meet up with us. I will look into this at once.

Jan writes a note and hands it to Gunther who leaves.

Stig
10-03-2007, 18:19
Ansehelm:
As I said Lothar, I would stand by your brother would I be there. He is a true German, not a traitor to his country. I have the feeling more is happening than just some Lutheran uprising. All true Germans are slowly disappearing.
Some of the most loyal men in the Reich are gone. Peter, one of the most loyal man I personally know. Matthias now, another of undisputed loyalty.
Arnold, another loyal German is being criticized by someone who holds the title of King of Nothing, even though we know Arnold is another loyal man.

I also want to speak for disbanding the Prinz' Army as soon as Duke Hans has finished his task. There is currently no Prinz so keeping an extra army costs money, too money we could spend on better things.


And I'm getting fed up by the fact I know nothing of Tancred von Tyrrolia. The Chancellor lost this man and an army with him, and I see no progress in finding him.

Tamur
10-03-2007, 18:46
*Fritz von Kastilien enters the Diet, waits for silence, and approaches the floor*

Friends, I bring news. Or, I bring rumour to be more exact.

I have met with Lothar's accuser. Or met with someone who speaks for him. There was an unfortunate use of masks and disguised voices, which irritates me to no end.

*Fritz shouts out while wildly looking about the chamber* If you want to bring forward damning evidence, do it now, coward!

*Fritz' nostrils flare, he shakes his head and composes himself*

Be that as it may, Lothar's accuser has told me that he has evidence of two things. First, that Lothar made an agreement with the leaders of the Assassins' Guild to do away with Siegfried. Second, that the man hired to lead the killers was none other than the mysteriously disappeared Tancred von Tyrrolia.

*Fritz makes a wide grin and laughs derisively*

I suggest that this Diet withhold judgment on such pronouncements until Hans' investigation has run its course. I have tasked two of my staff to perform their own inquiry into these charges.

It may be that these investigations prove some or part of this. On the other hand, it may that these are specious lies concocted by some ambitious member of this assembly who wishes to gain political advantage over the house of Bavaria. If it is the last...

*Fritz pauses and sweeps the Franconian bench without resting on anyone particularly*

...I pity the man who has done such a despicable thing.

Privateerkev
10-03-2007, 19:54
Jan addresses the Diet,

In light of Duke Lothar's concerns, and with the Kaiser's blessing, I am going to immediately take AoO north to Adana in order to investigate the situation concerning Count Matthias. I will issue a full report to the Kaiser when my investigation is complete. If Count Matthias is in Adana, we will find him. If he is in trouble, then a whole army is coming with me to lend him assistance.

I ask that you keep Count Matthias in your prayers.

Jan leaves the Diet

AussieGiant
10-03-2007, 20:12
Once Jan leaves the Chamber Arnold turns on the Kaiser.

Smashing his fist in emphasis Arnold's voice sounds like cold steel.

An audience with you if you please my Lord!

econ21
10-04-2007, 09:45
Elberhard: Duke Arnold has requested that I make clear that he retains my confidence in his ability as Duke of Austria. I would like to state publicly that I accept his assurances that he was not responsible for raising the army in Ragusa. Neither was I responsible. It is precisely this lack of control over the emerging army that is cause for alarm.

Were the Duke to be close to Ragusa with an army, I would be happy to entrust a resolution of this issue to him. Unfortunately, facts on the ground dictate that Duke Hans is better placed to intervene. This is no reflection of a lack of trust in Duke Arnold, just an appreciation of geography.

I am grateful to King Jan for bringing this issue to my attention, but would ask that it does not lead to a rekindling of the feud between him and Duke Arnold that we all so vividly recall from the past. I wish the King every success in his efforts to track down Matthias Steffen.

AussieGiant
10-04-2007, 13:50
Arnold bows his head just slightly towards the Kaiser. He then begins writing orders handing them to his Sword bearer Szczepanski, Grom and Bane.

Stuperman
10-04-2007, 14:47
Mathais missing? This is most Disturbing news indeed, King Jan I emplore you, help find my wifes brother, she has already lost one. It would kill her to lose another.

GeneralHankerchief
10-05-2007, 13:50
*A Swabian clerk is handed a piece of paper. He reads it, sighs, and stands up to address the Diet.*

My lords, the following is a message from Dietrich von Dassel, who is currently halfway between Ragusa and Durazzo.

Gentlemen,

Thank you so much for your wonderful idea about what to do with my army. Without bright, intelligent, paranoid Electors such as Sir von Hamburg, Duke Hans, and Kaiser Elberhard I would have never thought to attack Pope Abbate. You must all be congratulated on your military sense.

I go to Durazzo to end re-unification once and for all. This madness has gone on for too long. Godspeed, gentlemen.

Oh dear.

Privateerkev
10-05-2007, 14:02
While King Jan has been away in Adana searching for Matthias, a lone clerk staffs the Outremer table. Upon hearing the news from the Swabian clerk, he speaks.

Outremer clerk:

My lords,

It is amazing how, even now, Sir Dassel attempts to avoid responsibility for his actions by blaming others. I know I speak for my King when I ask that everyone do what ever is possible to protect the Holy Father. Furthermore, excommunication will rip the Reich apart at this fragile time. All of the civil unrest and blood that comes out of this will be on Sir Dassel's hands.

The clerk bows and sits down looking quite distraught.

Stig
10-05-2007, 16:10
Ansehelm:
So, Jan doesn't like it that Dietrich sends messengers, and here we have a messenger of his own.
No meine Herren, Herr von Dassel does what he thinks is best for the Reich, just like Peter. We should talk with people like them, it's obvious what happens if we don't, we're seeing that even now. If we ignore them they will take matters into their own hands.
Many mistakes have been made, especially by some who claim to be ruling parts of the Reich.

Tamur
10-05-2007, 16:29
Noble electors, I would like to stay and discuss Count Dietrich's latest moves. However, I think my time will be better spent putting down the revolts in my county. I wish you all well.

*Fritz strides quickly from the chamber, shouting for his horse*

Privateerkev
10-05-2007, 16:36
The clerk speaks

Outremer clerk:

Duke Ansehelm,

With all due respect, I meant that Sir Dassel is blaming my King, our Kaiser, and Duke Hans for his march on the Holy Father. My statements had nothing to do with Sir Dassel's use of clerks and I apologize profusely if my words led you to believe otherwise.

Stig
10-05-2007, 16:41
Ansehelm:
How does it come, that no-one who works for a Von Hamburg understands sarcasm?

FactionHeir
10-05-2007, 17:38
Another Swabian clerk stands to read a letter

My Lords,

My Duke informs me that while he may not be able to intercept Dassel in time, the Bavarian HA near Thessalonica would be able to reinforce the Papal forces at Durazzo before Dassel reaches them with his artillery.

TinCow
10-05-2007, 17:42
*Lothar Steffen slams his fist onto the table.*

NO! I will not have a Bavarian army be responsible for starting a Civil War within the Reich! I do not care what the consequences are, my Duchy will not be the first to shed the blood of their brothers! If Hans wants a Civil War, the blood will have to be on his hands, not mine!

Stig
10-05-2007, 17:56
Ansehelm:
There will be no need for civil war. Many of us agree on points. It's just a handfull of people who don't agree with the majority. That's no proper cause of a civil war, an uproar maybe, no civil war.

*Ansehelm gets out an knife and throws it into the table in front of him*
And if someone thinks he can start a civil war, let him keep in mind that the Teutonic Army is still strong, made up of many veterans of the attack on Moscow, these men know what it is to march half the world and attacking someone, so don't think you can sit save in some castle you stole.
Let that be a warning to everyone here, if someone thinks of starting a civil war, remember this: you will have this up you, and you will not like it.
*Ansehelm puts away his knife*


That reminded me of Jones:
http://blog.whatfettle.com/images/jones.png

GeneralHankerchief
10-05-2007, 20:05
*The Swabian clerk receives another paper and audibly groans. After being recognized he begins to read it aloud.*

Ahem... Gentlemen, it seems that Sir von Dassel has... graced... us with another letter.

Come on Hans, can't catch me? Can't be in twelve places at once? Can't match up with the lowly von Dassel, who isn't even a Count? You must be slipping, my lord. Surely this isn't the same Hans the Mighty who never resists an opportunity to boast his accomplishments to the world.

If you want to be known as the man who started the civil war by catching up to the dastardly von Dassel and his devil-worshipping Lutherans then by all means, march faster! Come on, you must have it in you somewhere!

Ugh... I resign. Somebody else can read these *#%! letters now.

econ21
10-06-2007, 19:25
Diet Speaker: Count Peter von Kastilien is to be released from prison in Rome into the custody of the Duke of Franconia.

Mutters into his beard:

...and God help us all.

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 19:29
A man last seen in the Diet thirteen years ago enters again.

"Home sweet home," Peter thinks.

ELECTORS! I return triumphant from my journey to Constantinople! I knew you couldn't afford to hold me in prison for long, with the Lutherans on my side.

Count Becker and Duke Hans, you forgot about Tancred. A grave error. Wahrheitburg is now part of the Most Holy Roman Empire!

Peter glances at Empress Theodora for a fleeting moment, then continues.

I wish to go home to Franconia, quickly. But first, I shall be celebrating our triumph over the Greeks in the Tavern! Lars and Ulrich brought me countless riches from sacking Constantinople, and Greek coin is valued well. Join me - all night, all men drink for free!

Laughing and singing loudly, Peter leaves the room and walks down the street.

Privateerkev
10-06-2007, 19:31
The clerk at the Outremer table just buries his head in his hands in disbelief.

FactionHeir
10-06-2007, 19:44
The Swabian clerk rises

Forgive me for the interruption, but Duke Hans did suggest to the Austrians to secure their eastern front to ward off Tancred if he tried to infiltrate after your capture.

I have no words for your release, but my Duke will certainly have his own view on that matter.

Privateerkev
10-06-2007, 19:48
The clerk picks his head up and speaks,

Outremer clerk:

Is Peter even able to speak in here? It was Kaiser Elberhard who banned him, even though he did hold a different position at the time.

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 20:36
Peter's veteran warrior, whose names is Jonas, speaks. He is a teetotaller and doesn't like to drink.

My name is Jonas. I was born by the twin rivers Cuomo. But enough about me.

Jan? Yeah he can. Elberhard gave Péter full reinstatement at the Diet when he released him. Go figure!

And, Hans? There's no way Tancred is stupid enough to try and attack his own countrymen. It would take a total moron to use armed force to try and prevent something catastrophic. Really stupid.

Jonas's voice trails off...

Reminds me of someone...

Stig
10-06-2007, 20:44
Ansehelm:
Since Peter is now in my custody I think I can safely tell you that he will move to Hamburg to join forces with Fritz untill Dieter arrives. Peter and Fritz are to defend that border of the Reich, and if possible I want them to move at Antwerp. A clear victory might be good for the Reich.

econ21
10-07-2007, 23:38
Diet Speaker: Duke Ansehelm, on the subject of Antwerp, I am pleased to report that our English allies have entered the war with Denmark and are currently besieging the city. I have no great faith they will succeed, but they will weaken our foe.

On another matter, Kaiser Elberhard has asked me to communicate to you the result of King Jan's investigation into the whereabouts of Matthias Steffen:


King Jan's report on the whereabouts of Count Matthias

My Kaiser,

Please make this report available to the Diet in full.

Myself and a small group have left the army behind in Aleppo so as to be unassuming and hopefully unnoticed. I have taken my party through Adana and here is what I found.

1.) From questioning the Adana crusaders, as well as locals, the Adana garrison complied with the handover peacefully.

2.) According to their testimony, Count Matthias was on patrol up north when the handover happened. He was not at the Citadel.

3.) I found a battle site where Count Mattias's horse and bodyguards were found dead. The marks in the sand show that the Count was dragged away and that there were many attackers. Arrows recovered are of Turkish design.

4.) From visiting local village leaders, I learned a local mercenary unit had been hired to ambush someone. The mercenaries are of Turkish descent but do not belong to the Turkish Army.

5.) Up at the northern Adana border, a caravan informed me that a convoy headed into Caesarea. A wagon had a wounded man on it and the men in the convoy bore the markings and dress of Byzantine soldiers.

6.) While I was allowed to travel around Adana without hassle from the Byzantines the atmosphere has changed. My party is prepared to defend itself at a moment's notice.

7.) I have received an intelligence report from a reliable source that Matthias may be alive up in Caesarea.

8.) Because of this intelligence, I am taking the party north to Caesarea to see what I can find.

9.) If he is indeed held by the Byzantines, then I will demand his immediate release. If they refuse to comply, then I will extricate him by force and make our way back south.

I ask the Diet to keep Count Matthias in your prayers.

Yours,
King Jan


From this report, it appears that a renegade Byzantine general may have kidnapped Matthias Steffen in order to ease the transfer of Adana. Kaiser Elberhard assures the Diet that, despite our fraternal feelings for the Eastern Romans, King Jan and the Army of Outremer North will conduct aggressive negotiations for Matthias Steffen's release.

gibsonsg91921
10-07-2007, 23:50
Péter von Kastilien walks back into the Diet.

They have Matthias? Those @#$%ers. I'll give 'em some aggressive negotiations. Just say the word, and Tancred takes Nicaea. Or anywhere else we feel like.

Once again, the Diet takes a while to realize that I am right, but it happened.

Warluster
10-08-2007, 03:56
Athalwolf enters and bows

Mein lords, I wish to speak of my undying loyalty to the real Duke of Swabia, Duke Hans. I care not that some upstart from Caen thinks otherwise, but all the same, Wolfgang, the one who I talk of, I shall make sure your dead body is buried beneath this earth before the end of this century.

I also wish to speak of my commitment to the 95 laws Luther speaks of. I openly discourage the fact of quietning this, are we not allowed Free Speech and thought of mind? What does this make diffrent? Is not germany excommunicated, soi how does the Pope care?

I wish not for war between The Lutherean Army near Durrazo, but if it comes to force, I shall back up Dietrich von Dassel very much. And I openly appauld Peter.

Gone are the days of the Pope and his somewhat evil laws, and of those who believe in them.

Athalwolf whips around and walks from the Diet, to escape capture as has happened to other Luthereans.

Stuperman
10-08-2007, 05:06
Kidnapped?!?! News from the diet becomes more unbelievable everyday, I surley hope that all efforts of extract Mathias are being made.

OverKnight
10-08-2007, 06:17
A letter arrives from Outremer from one of the few ships still plying the ever more dangerous trade lanes.


My fellow Electors. The news of my abduction is accurate, but thanks to King Jan, and to Duke Lothar who originally brought up the matter of my disappearance, I am now a free man. I do not wish to go into details, though I'm sure they will eventually emerge.

Let me emphasize that my imprisonment was the responsibility of the Byzantine Strategos Nikeforos the Mean. He acted alone, without the approval of his superiors, as far as I know. This should be familiar to many of our Electors. "Independent Action" has become quite popular.

I have reviewed the records of the past few years, and while horrified, I will not go into details. This has been a trying time for all of us. I beg all of you now to abandon these disparate machinations and unite. We no longer have the luxury of unquestioned supremacy or unlimited resources. The threats that face us are very real, and if we do not meet them together, we will fall.

I propose a status quo ante bellum. We cannot rescind our excommunication, or the breaking of our alliance with the Eastern Roman Empire, but we can move forward together from this low point to rebuild what has been destroyed, regain what has been lost and take back our rightful place at the head of Europe.

We must act before it is too late.

Stig
10-08-2007, 09:19
Ansehelm:
Tancred will take no city. Tancred will take his army and return to Franconia to reinforce the Household Armies. Having an outpost deep into enemy territory is dangerous, I suggest we destroy every building in Constantinople, the money will be of good use to us.

gibsonsg91921
10-08-2007, 15:01
Agreed, brother! I am a bit disturbed that the efforts of my journey will not bear as much fruit as previously anticipated, but the war with the Byzantines is inevitable. We can destroy every single building of that godforsaken place - it will no longer be Wahrheitburg, but it shall still be a triumph.

Stig
10-08-2007, 19:43
Ansehelm:
The Poles outside Thorn are beaten again, we lost 60 good Germans.

I hereby order the former Stettin garrison to join the Teutonic Army, and Fritz to move to Hamburg. The Lutherans are now in command of Stettin, I think he can live with that.
The Teutonic Army needs reinforcements, there are three large enemy armies coming, which means the Teutonic Army needs more money to reinforce than any other army. Thorn is the last happy settlement, making it fall would be the same as commiting suicide.

Tamur
10-08-2007, 20:05
*A messenger enters the Diet*

My lords, Fritz von Kastilien sends greetings to all of you.

He has received orders to move to Hamburg and abandon Stettin to the Lutherans who refuse to let even him in. He wishes the Diet to know that he will not stand for this situation, and he will be assaulting Stettin and raiding the treasuries of its miserably unstable magistrates as soon as he sufficient strength to do so. He trusts that the magistrates in Hamburg will do better than those in Stettin.

If he cannot get enough strength for an assault, he will, as ordered, return to Hamburg.

*The messenger bows and exits*

econ21
10-10-2007, 00:47
Diet Speaker: Electors, dreadful news! I regret to inform you that the Imperial Treasury has been emptied and the gold is unaccounted for! We have no funds to recruit more men or even pay those we have. This will surely increase desertion and further undermine Imperial authority!

The Treasury guards say that the money was taken in the name of Kaiser Elberhard and the Empress Dowager Theodora, but the Kaiser's men have no knowledge of where the gold is and the Empress Dowager has also disappeared!

gibsonsg91921
10-10-2007, 01:22
Treason!

Péter chuckles, faking being shocked and acting like he's never heard the word before.

Stig
10-10-2007, 09:36
Ansehelm:
Is it not strange that everything occuring now somehow has to do with our "leaders" and they still claim innocence.

Sides, I told you not to trust Orthodox Christians.

TinCow
10-10-2007, 12:28
This is the last straw. Bavaria formally announces that it will no longer support any attempts at maintaining goodwill with the Byzantines. They are thieves and villains and have shown themselves to be such. I hereby order Count Karolinger and Household Army Otto to return immediately to Bavaria, even if Thessalonica has not yet fallen.

Furthermore, Bavaria will not lift a finger to defend Rome if it risks the security of our Duchy. Since Kaiser Elberhard has seen fit to aid in the theft of the entire Imperial Treasury, surely he has enough funds to recruit an army to defend his own capital.

Tamur
10-10-2007, 14:43
*A messenger arrives, waits his turn, and proceeds to the edge of the floor where he begins reading*

Fritz von Kastilien sends this message:

"My lords, I wish I could join you in debate at this time. But I am currently overseeing security in the region around Stettin.

"I have heard rumours that the treasury has been emptied. I pity anyone who is surprised by this.

"In response, I am holding the ten thousand florins liberated from Stettin's magistrates in safety here, to prevent further robbery at the hands of the Byzantines and Kaiser Elberhard.

"This money and any other which I happen to come across will remain locked away until such time as those who sided so recklessly with the Byzantine cause have been removed from power.

"May God protect the Reich."

*The messenger bows and leaves*

gibsonsg91921
10-10-2007, 23:38
This is madness! Kaiser Elberhard is weak and a fool. Why should we submit to folly?

RoadKill
10-11-2007, 00:18
Lorenz Zirn bursts out at the news of such blasmephy.

THIS IS MADNESS!!! What type of fool would do such things! He is asking for the end of the Reich

econ21
10-11-2007, 00:31
Diet Speaker: Dear Electors, there is no suggestion that the Kaiser has stolen his own Treasury. That would be rather ... unnecessary ... would it not? His only involvement in the affair was that one of his retinue, a Teuton Captain, was unwittingly used as part of the heist to help provide a veneer of legitimacy.

The story, so far as we can make out, seems to be that the gold was moved out of the city under false pretences - orders signed by the Empress Dowager Theodora. Once her aides had taken possession of the money it was diverted south towards Naples, rather than north to our new administrative capital as had been planned.

The militia organised a vigorous pursuit, of course, but were forced to turn back when they spied several large columns marching north across the border with Naples.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 00:43
Silence, speaker! The funds of the Reich are not for the Kaiser, but for its people. The Kaiser has betrayed what little trust we have placed in him, and he has failed us.

The Kaiser is weak and an outlaw, my friends. The cities are rebelling, Swabia has broken away, we have unfunded armies defending a fool of a Pope in the Levant, and he has stolen our money!

Until the Kaiser returns from Outremer to justify his actions, I declare myself Prinz of the Holy Roman Empire, and will be acting as Kaiser until he reveals his spineless self again. Am the brother of the late Siegfried and the only one of you to act when hope seemed lost. (OOC: This is assuming Dietrich, Tancred, Athalwolf, Wolfgang, and Fritz are not present) We will not be a vassal-state of the Greeks, nor doormat allies any longer!

There shall be a unified Roman Empire, sealed in the blood of the Byzantines! We shall start by reconquering what has been lost. Duke Lothar and Bavarians, are you willing to take back Naples and Palermo for your Duchy? Jan and Matthias and all those in the Levant, are you willing to reconquer Outremer? Then let us unite! The bounds of the Reich are only where men will not tread - if it is reachable, it will be ours, and Pax Romana shall be the result!

When Elberhard returns to this Diet, he will receive a "generous welcome." Now raise your flagons to glory!

RoadKill
10-11-2007, 01:00
Lorenz grins insanly and laughs

AI!!! We shall follow the steps of Peter and conquer what has been last to our great nation, we shall crush them under our power, and take back what is rightfully ours!

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:03
That is the fighting spirit, Lorenz! The Holy Roman Empire shall rival and be even larger than the first Roman Empire, only we shall not succumb to weakness (OOC: and orgies) like our predecessors!

I ask all Germans the question, do you have the strength to cast aside oppression and malfeasance, and strive for glory? WHAT SAY YOU?

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:03
The clerk at the Outremer table is not sure whether to laugh or be appalled.

Outremer clerk:

Let me make this really clear right now. King Jan does not recognize Peter as Kaiser. We have a Kaiser and that is Kaiser Elberhard. You can't just come in here and proclaim yourself Kaiser.

If Peter is truly Kaiser, then I challenge him to ban King Jan, and all of his aides, from the Diet right now. This is a direct challenge to the authority that Peter claims he holds. If he truly is Kaiser, then he should prove it.

Until then, we have much more important things going on.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:09
I shall not ban ye, as ye have all the right to speak your mind. Lesser Kaisers lacked the virility to be questioned in the least, it is more forceful to let you speak your mind and silence with argument. If Elberhard is truly not the one in charge of the robbery, he can remain a figurehead and remain his dignity, whatever remains. One day he will die and his soul shall leave the earth to wherever it may go.

In the meantime, his weakness is inexcusable. He calls Tancred a pirate, rather than the hero he truly is. We are at war with the Greeks, and it's about time. Tell Jan that unless he swears to serve the Reich, the true Reich, he will be banished from it.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:13
Outremer clerk:

King Jan does not need to justify himself to a man who rebelled with a whole army. The King will serve who is Kaiser, not who gets uppity and claims it on a whim.

Again, I hereby challenge your authority as Kaiser. If you were Kaiser, you couldn't let such a challenge stand and would have to ban the King. How do you answer such a challenge Peter?

RoadKill
10-11-2007, 01:25
King Jan! I shall challenge YOUR ATHOURITY! You are more capable then this Kaiser. Our Kaiser has left us taking everything with him to save himself, do you seriously want to follow such a man, who does not give a !@#@ about your life!? He has left us with nothing, he has abandoned us, HE HAS FORSAKEN US!

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:31
Outremer clerk:

The King's authority derives from the Kaiser according to the Charter of Outremer. No matter what "Peter the Pretender" claims, he is not Kaiser.

Now, on to far more important matters.

According to reports, Count Becker has fallen in battle. The King grieves for the loss of a good and honorable man. He sends his condolences to Duke Arnold and House Austria for their loss. May the Lord see Becker to a better place. Amen.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:33
If it is rebellion to unite and save a failing Empire, then I am a rebel. If it is treason to draw swords against enemies and fight for the betterment of Germany, then I am a traitor. If it is the right thing to do to sit by and let my home country and my friends and my people be destroyed, then I am a sinner.

Unlike other Kaisers and Princes who did not have the manhood to be questioned, I will not ban you. Your foolish words have already done that. Have Jan visit me, so I can treat with him in person and not a feeble proxy.

Peace, Lorenz, I do not wish to spill German blood, even one so weak as Jan's clerk.

EDIT(posted at the same time as PK's): Becker is dead? That is terrible news. He was a true soldier of the Reich, a true man. Why has the von Mahren family been stricken so? The von Heidelburg children must be protected from this pox.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:36
Outremer clerk:


Your foolish words have already done that.

"Peter the Pretender", please tell me how the King's words have banned him. I have yet to see Imperial troops come in to arrest me.

If you are Kaiser, then why don't you call an emergency session and set all of this right? Even as Prince, you would have this authority. You could set things the way you want them right now if you were Kaiser or Prince.

RoadKill
10-11-2007, 01:40
Becker...dead...? Damnit! Another death to the Austrian household. He was a great man, wanting peace, but yet these wars force him to fight till his last breath.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:41
What an excellent idea - I can call an emergency Diet session and have all of the good men of the Reich come in and set things right. Of course, this is moot as the end of the term is nigh. Tell Jan that his weakness has been noted and that he shall not expect to be King next term.

OOC: I don't have the OOC balls to call a Diet session and annoy the crap out of everyone.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:46
Outremer clerk:

Since King Jan does not recognize you, and you have yet to actually prove your authority, your threats and insults mean little.

As for the King being here in person, he left for Outremer some time ago to rescue Count Matthias. Events in Outremer, as well as a difficult travel situation lately, have made it quite impossible for the King to be here in person. If you've noticed, many nobles have made the same decision in order to be where they are needed. Are they all "weak" Peter the Pretender?

But, never fear, I am here to answer all of your queries my good Count.


OOC: I don't have the OOC balls to call a Diet session and annoy the crap out of everyone.

OOC: I was gambling on that. ^_^ Would be funny to see Peter try though. Remember, we don't know your Prince yet. And Peter's word is not going to be good enough by itself. You'll need something more to convince everyone.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:54
And these nobles are doing their duty for the Reich. Matthias is a hero, withstanding and surviving capture. King Jan is a hero for retaking Aleppo, not so for letting Outremer be given away without a struggle.

Nay, I still shall not ban you - you have been misguided and lied to by Elberhard and know not the follies you utter.

But internal struggle and deliberation is diminishing the significance of Becker's death. He not only leaves Austria undermanned yet again, but the Reich is robbed of a true man and a true soldier. A moment of silence! After due grieving, I shall see to it personally that Austria is reinforced by Tancred von Tyrolia or Friedrich Karolinger so it does not fall weak.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:57
The clerk observes the moment of silence

Outremer clerk:

So now you command Bavarian Household Armies? So, not only are you both Kaiser and Prince, but your the Duke of Bavaria as well? What title should you claim next?

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:03
I am not the anything of Bavaria, but Prinz of the Holy Roman Empire. I have dispatched a message to Duke Lothar requesting that the Household Army reinforce the beleaguered Austrians. If he refuses for logical reasons, Tancred will be the support. Now peace! In speaking we dishonor Becker.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:08
Outremer clerk:

Don't you dare use the death of Count Becker to silence political dissent!

We observed the silence, and then business goes on. It's how it has always been.

Now, I point you to your past words:
I shall see to it personally that Austria is reinforced by Tancred von Tyrolia or Friedrich Karolinger so it does not fall weak.

You clearly stated that you were going to direct both Bavarian and Franconian units. So, if your not claiming to be the Duke of both Bavaria and Franconia, then maybe your claiming that your Chancellor. Let's see, thats five titles now in one evening.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:14
Yes, I did!

Tancred von Tyrolia is under my command as my vassal and equal. If I command him to abandon Wahrheitburg and protect the Austrians, then he shall - he is loyal yet no lapdog. Be mindful of the distinction.

However, Friedrich Karolinger is nearby - thus I have asked Lothar Steffen for permission to have this army sent. If he refuses, I will not exercise military force to change his mind.

I do not care if there are no titles for me. I accept your challenge. From henceforth, I shall be known as Péter von Kastilien. I shall serve the function of a Prinz, but carry no elevated titles.

I do not call myself Hero of the Lutherans, although I hear many Lutherans hold me with this distinction. Apparently I have gained merit through action and not misguided loyalties.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:19
Outremer clerk:

And yet again you have utterly failed to prove that you are indeed Prince. Once the Pope declares that you indeed have a mandate from God to rule the Reich, after Kaiser Elberhard passes on, then King Jan will recognize you as such.

Until then, he won't.

And I am sure that the Duke of Bavaria is sleeping soundly knowing that you will not exercise military force against him. I am sure he was just quaking in his boots, in fear of the mighty power that exists in your head, until your reassurance.

OOC: The long title in the quote thread was more of an OOC joke but I can see how it was taken as IC. oops. :embarassed:

RoadKill
10-11-2007, 02:21
King Jan, we have enough trouble in the Reich thousands of lives are on the line here. Peter is not taking titles of others, OTHERS HAVE NOT SPEAKEN OUT, Peter is taking the courage of taking responsibility, he is aiding the Reich, is that not what we want? He is doing everything for the Reich, unlike others who are doing everything for themselves!

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:24
The Pope? You are talking about the Pope!?! The old fool admits his own fallibility. Let the Electors choose instead of waiting for the Almighty Octogenarian to act while sitting on his golden throne drinking Greek wine. I shall cast a poll for all electors - they can vote by absentee so they won't sacrifice their duties to come to Rome. If the majority say that I cannot be Prinz, then I will leave to Franconia forever and serve Duke Ansehelm in whatever manner he orders. I accept your misguided challenge yet again, clerk.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:24
Outremer clerk:

Count Lorenz,

Yet, through all of that, he has still utterly and completely failed to prove that he is indeed Prince of the Holy Roman Empire. Once he does, the issue is settled. Until then, someone needs to speak out against this clear usurpation of the authority of the Kaiser.

Count Peter,

Ah but that is not how our system works. We do not elect a Prince. When the Kaiser dies, the current Prince becomes Kaiser. Then Pope lets us know who is the new Prince. Divine right to rule. When the new Pope gets more settled in with his new job, he will let us know who our new heir is.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:53
OOC: Look at ur sig, PK. haha

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:56
OOC: Well, the sig is a quote from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. That represents more my personal views (far left-wing) than Jan's. (divine right monarchist) ^_^

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:57
OOC: haha i know where its from, its ironic. im pretty left-wing myself, but moderate on some issues