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Bwian
09-30-2007, 18:10
https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3626/build1zp9.jpg
New build cards for the Tomb Kings ... looking OK.

Next up, we have the Dwarven Hammerers. Heavier armour than the regular warriors...and with Hammers. Naturally!
https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3699/hammerer1ve6.jpg

Next, the heavy warriors in battle.
https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/4206/battledw7.jpg

Next, we have the longbeards. Have some issues with the rigging as far as the beards are concerned...but they just about work OK as I have them now. The damn beards REALLY get in the way!
https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3190/longbeardsyn1.jpg

Finally for today, another shot of the heavy troops ready for a fight
https://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5863/heavytroopssn4.jpg

Spent the rest of the weekend clearing out all the stock models from the modeldb and export_descr_unit to make them a bit tidier, and struggling with the animations for the crew. For some reason, the animations for the crew are scattered over several directories ... just to make it really awkward.....

Silly Knicket
09-30-2007, 18:33
Lovely!

A Norseman
09-30-2007, 18:42
Good to see some progress on on the mod after a short brake (in the showcase that is :P)
I like most of the dwarf, but i think there is some issues. firstly, i dont like the scalemail for some reason, it dont look as good as the other armours i've seen you make. in a normal mod, this wuld not have been an issue, but your other works have set the standards too high for this one..

A Norseman
09-30-2007, 18:46
deleated dubble post

Bwian
09-30-2007, 20:31
The screenshots don't show it very well. The scale-mail does look OK when you see it 'firsthand' as it were!

Jubal_Barca
09-30-2007, 21:34
Make the mallet heads smaller, these are Dwarven Warriors with iron/steel hammers going to war, not Dwarves with rubber mallets playing WHACKAMOLE...

Bwian
09-30-2007, 21:59
That would be the ones on the Longbeards....

Yup..could be you are right. They didn't look that big in MS3D...but now I come to think of it :oops:

Mind you..it's not Whackamole .... it's Whackanorc :smash: :smash: :smash:

Herkus
09-30-2007, 22:23
Great units, especially lovely axe blade textures.

Zapp
09-30-2007, 22:41
Hmm, looks awesome.. Just one thing bugs me, and that is that all the dwarves hands seems too small compared to the rest of the body. Maybe it's some issue with animations or something, but I really think you should scale the hands up, and then also scale up the "handles"/"shafts"/whatever (if you know what I mean) of the axes and hammers.

ombudsman
09-30-2007, 23:50
i´ve been lurking around this part of the forum along time, though i never posted before, just wanted to say good work, i love the dwarves, and i can´t see a problem with the hands, though i agree about the handles of the hammers, especially the ones the longbeards have, maybe they should be scaled up a bit, to fit the massive hammer, seems like it would brake quite easily under that weight...or as you said yourself scale down the hammer itself...anyway it looks wicked, good luck with the mod bwian!

Enthes
10-01-2007, 02:38
was wondering when we would get some more screnies, dwarfs looking very nice though the weapons look a bit big



Mind you..it's not Whackamole .... it's Whackanorc :smash: :smash: :smash:

i loled :laugh4:

Bwian
10-01-2007, 08:34
The Longbeard hammers ( the big mallet one ) has been made smaller and more in proportion. It looks a lot better now. Hands wise, they were in proportionas far as I can see. The arms and armour on the Dwarves does bulk things up quite a bit, and I don't really see them as being oversize.

What do others think? I am trying to get the look spot on, but don't want to fall into the 'Citadel Trap' where things get steadily bigger, bulkier and generally more caricatured with each successive change. If the consensus is that the hands should be bigger, then I will change it. It's quite a lot of work ( 9 units..4 lods ...though I would probably not bother with the lower detail versions in truth) so I don;t want to change it really... but I will if I have to!

Next shots will be of the new siege gear. Which is proving to be a pain! Lots of fiddly bits on the Ballista, and I have to work to the stock bones pattern.

A Norseman
10-01-2007, 12:24
As i see it, those dwarfs look supreeme. My issues were with the scalemail and the big hammer (wich the latter did not make it into my comment arbove for some reason ;P) If you think the scalemail is fine, and the hammers are toned down, i am perfecly happy with the dwarfs the way they are.

GabrielTam
10-01-2007, 12:56
Yeah, as always, great work! I think it's all right with hands. There is no need to recreate base dwarf models. :yes:

Enthes
10-01-2007, 14:38
the hands look fine to me

alexader
10-01-2007, 17:14
ohh God,bwian very nice work,they look amazing,they can smash everything in there way with those big hammers,keep it up....:egypt:

A Norseman
10-01-2007, 19:25
acctiualy, I have changed my mind, sorry. The hand is a problem. I think they are too thin, and look a bit odd. It is my opinion that if it is not too time demanding, I think you shuld make the hands broader.

Zapp
10-01-2007, 19:36
acctiualy, I have changed my mind, sorry. The hand is a problem. I think they are too thin, and look a bit odd. It is my opinion that if it is not too time demanding, I think you shuld make the hands broader.
Exactly what I think too.

But seriously, that's just a small thing, don't bother change them if you don't think they're too small, Bwian ;)

Bwian
10-01-2007, 19:57
We could always settle it with a show of hands .... ( sorry!)

paradamed
10-01-2007, 20:15
This is the most interesting mod for M2tw for sure. Probably teh most awaited. Congratulations for teh mod.

Bwian
10-01-2007, 22:19
https://img218.imageshack.us/img218/3373/flamerys7.jpg

Small thing.... but I figured I had better get this working before I built a flame cannon for the Dwarves. Just need to improve the 'flow' of the flames, so there are fewer gaps in the stream. Flames look about how I want them, and they will be looking good when they are done.

Would also help if I didn't mess up the screengrab too!

Silly Knicket
10-01-2007, 22:47
Damn... wish I knew how to get such flame effects into my mod.
Looks very nice though :)

Decker
10-02-2007, 03:47
Very nice Bwian, it's been quite a while since your last drooler.

Enthes
10-02-2007, 12:36
wow
only wish the screen grab was better quality

Taranaich
10-02-2007, 19:51
Looking sharp as always chief :2thumbsup:

I don't really mind the giant hammers, but it's probably better for the overall aesthetic to tone them down a smidgen. The hands could do with being a *bit* bigger, but I don't know if it's worth going through all the models to change them. Maybe just make the armoured hands bigger and leave the unarmoured/gloved ones.

It's a shame CA took out that 2h animation from the previews where the attacker thwacks the foe in the face, trips him up, and smacks him twice in the chest. That would be brilliant for the Longbeards' and Hammerers' tenderizers!

DrZoidberg
10-04-2007, 20:15
I'd say the dwarves are perfect. Good job.

Bwian
10-04-2007, 21:36
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4286/flameonfe7.jpg

Took a leaf out of the Kingdoms book, and now have a flame-cannon that looks like it really should do!

Enthes
10-04-2007, 22:51
wow, just wow :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes: :yes:

GabrielTam
10-04-2007, 23:54
That's what I calling "The Amazing Work"!!! Holy shit! Just can't wait do throw my orcs in all-out assault against such a machine! :yes:

A Norseman
10-05-2007, 10:27
Yea, But you havent made the acctual machine yet? Or are the dwarfs using some ingenius balista engine ;P

Bwian
10-05-2007, 17:26
The mesh is being built :clown: and since I am basing it on a Ballista, it seemed the simplest way of working. No point in making a fancy machine model if I can't make the flames work!!!!

Geoffrey S
10-05-2007, 20:07
Is nice. Is very nice. :2thumbsup:

Spankfurt
10-05-2007, 23:28
I <3 u Bwian

A Norseman
10-05-2007, 23:57
Inteligent.. :P
No serusly, this mod gets better and better!, But dont you need kingdoms to see the flames?

Silly Knicket
10-06-2007, 03:48
...thought so too...
Doesn´t it run from the kingdoms.exe? (boiling oil effects)

Enthes
10-06-2007, 13:41
i guess he copied out the effect so it works with METW2.exe

Bwian
10-06-2007, 15:21
Kingdoms is definitely NOT required to get the effects. All the required particle effects etc. have been around since RTW, and the stock M2TW engine works just fine for producing flames. All I needed was to find out the right settings to get the smoothness and flow rates right, and you get FLAMES. The effects for people burning etc. are all there in M2TW as well for use when troops are hit by flaming ballista or catapult shots. Whatever they changed for the Kingdoms exe, it was not related to the particle effects!

I looked at the kingdoms particle stream effects to get an idea of how they did them for the greek fire, layering 3 on top of each other, where I was trying to do it with a single one. Once I saw that, the rest was easy!

Myrddraal
10-06-2007, 15:37
The flames look a little white atm, but the effect looks awe inspiring.

A Norseman
10-06-2007, 15:48
I think they are suposed to be white.. Its actualy burning fluid, not flames..

Bwian
10-06-2007, 19:16
https://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5264/bolterrs4.jpg
Dwarven bolt throwers are in game and working

Eufarius
10-06-2007, 19:58
Nice but are the Dwarves praying for the Ballista to move?
Also the Flame is looking very cool Bwian.:yes:

Zapp
10-06-2007, 20:19
Nice but are the Dwarves praying for the Ballista to move?
Uhm, so you mean it looks good in vanilla medieval when they move siege equipment or what? Making animations takes time, and making that animation look perfect is almost impossible.

A Norseman
10-06-2007, 21:08
How cool :P
Not the most awe inspiering thing you've made, but realy impressing seen as it is a sige engine not a unit, with i take for beeing harder. Cant wait for the cannon! (is it possible to add to the number of cannons so that you got 1 or 3 or 4 in one unit? i yust did it in rome, but are uncertan if it works in medieval)

Bwian
10-06-2007, 21:24
The problem with the dwarves pushing in the right place was easy to solve in RTW...the push points were defined in descr_engines. In M2TW, they have gven them some odd file type I can't read or change....GGrrrr

Once I find out how to do this, I will set them right. I also need to change the position for the flame cannon. Right now, the Dwarves standing out front tend to get fried by their own gun every time it fires.... not nice at all!

And yes...siege gear is a lot more complicated! You have seperate damage models, as well as a collision model and a more complicated set of text files to mess with. Units are much more fun and a lot easier to do.

Silly Knicket
10-06-2007, 21:27
The problem with the dwarves pushing in the right place was easy to solve in RTW...the push points were defined in descr_engines. In M2TW, they have gven them some odd file type I can't read or change....GGrrrr


Aren´t some of the siege machinery files encoded in python?
Think I read something about that. (haven´t tried changing them myself)

Eufarius
10-07-2007, 22:20
I was kidding I kno.

Spankfurt
10-09-2007, 20:56
I appreciate the humour Eufarius, Zapp is just a downer ;)

Eufarius
10-10-2007, 03:42
Yay! thank you Spankfurt but Zapp is correct I know how hard it is to do animations to actually fit but it's all good.

And Bwian keep up the good work looking forward to it.:2thumbsup:

Zapp
10-10-2007, 11:34
Haha, I didn't mean to sound pessimistic or anything :) But yeah, it's hard.

Richdog
10-10-2007, 15:40
https://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4286/flameonfe7.jpg

Took a leaf out of the Kingdoms book, and now have a flame-cannon that looks like it really should do!

Looks like a giant Super Soaker. :D

Good work dude. ;)

Bwian
10-14-2007, 21:55
Not been much eye-candy of late, since I have been working with KE to solve the Chariot problem, plus some other things that will bear fruit later on....

What I have done, though, is to finish off the Dwarf units. Aside from a general model, standard bearer and musician unit, the troops are all done now.

Iron Breakers:

https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/42/ib1os2.jpg

https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3313/ib2yi9.jpg

Quite pleased with the way these guys have turned out.

Silly Knicket
10-14-2007, 22:23
Great work on those little stunties... can´t wait to see them in action!

Decker
10-15-2007, 01:40
Not been much eye-candy of late, since I have been working with KE to solve the Chariot problem, plus some other things that will bear fruit later on....

What I have done, though, is to finish off the Dwarf units. Aside from a general model, standard bearer and musician unit, the troops are all done now.

Iron Breakers:

https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/42/ib1os2.jpg

https://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3313/ib2yi9.jpg

Quite pleased with the way these guys have turned out.
Verry nice my friend. BTW, who are they fighting in the second pic? Looks like some Orks.

Eufarius
10-15-2007, 02:48
Nope those are Chaos warriors or marauders
and Bwian are shields like that? or will they be filled with emblems and stuff?

Bwian
10-15-2007, 08:35
They are indeed fighting Chaos Warriors :laugh4: Alletuin hasn't finished the Orcs, and I don't have them in the test build yet.

Shields are DEFINITELY NOT staying like that! I have just given them a solid block of colour on the texture since I have not decided exactly how the shields will be patterned. I also wanted to make sure that I didn't forget!

There are actually 3 variations of pattern in there...but all are just plain orange. I will decide the patterning soon when I do the standards and decide on a llogo for the faction.

A Norseman
10-15-2007, 16:22
I Like the orange shields, kind of reminding me of the orangejuse my grandmom used to make on those hot summer holidays down south.. :P

No seriusly. Arent the ironbrakers lakking a bit in armor? Or does it come in a uppgraded armor version too? I dont see the tinncans i had imagened.

But i want to see the cannon!!

(PS That odd knight who show up on all your pictures out of context with everything is realy getting on my nerves:P)

Bwian
10-15-2007, 18:07
Plate mail from head to foot ... How much armour did you want on these guys! They still need to move :yes:

The shields will change shortly ( and mean I have to re-do some work, since I forgot to map the shield backs to the wooden texture :embarassed:

The dodgy Knight will go once I have general models in place for the Dwarves. The dodgy knight they are often seen killing will go when I replace all the OTHER general models!

Anarion
10-15-2007, 18:09
THAT is some impressiv work! really like the armour, hope we'll see something similary with bretonnia.

alexader
10-15-2007, 19:29
yes i think that the armor is enough but the faces should be covered too,and a suggestion,i think that the veteran models like longbeards and iron breakers(or hammeres)should have white breads because they are old enough,and to finish they have plate armor in the torso,not chainmale.but they are still good.nice job bwian,keep it up,also i had post for suggestion the AI(darth mod should be very good)what do you think about that,finally you run the job here.it's your choice.Keep walking:egypt:

Enthes
10-15-2007, 21:08
i think alex is right when he ses they need there faces covered (even if just a few) as it will make them look a whole lot more menacing

A Norseman
10-15-2007, 21:52
Yea, at closer look, i see now that my last comment was not true. They are armored. BUT (always a but) I think that it is the lack of the iron masks who make them look less armored than they actiualy are..

Taranaich
10-16-2007, 15:29
Smashing Iron Breakers (in more ways than one!)

I agree with the concensus that there needs to be a Sutton-Hoo type mask there somewhere, but the goggle-helms look nice too. Maybe just add the mask on one of the existing heads, maybe the one that doesn't already have goggles or noseguards.

You could also try changing the face and beard of one so they look like they're sculpted metal.

Myrddraal
10-17-2007, 14:38
This is burning fluid :grin:
https://img143.imageshack.us/img143/2858/flame20thrower202wy8.jpg

Bwian
10-17-2007, 17:51
I was looking , also, at the effect produced by the 'Crocodile' flame thrower mods done to Churchill and Sherman tanks in WW2. Range is limited, since the systems were pressurised with nitrogen, and there are limits to how high you can go before things get decidedly risky!

Interestingly enough such weapons were banned under the terms of the Geneva Convention, though all sides used them during the war!

Alletun
10-19-2007, 09:30
Awesome dwarves bwian.

apologies for the slow down with the greenskins but i've been working on a tut:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=127787

expect some goblins soon (well, not that soon)

Silly Knicket
10-19-2007, 10:59
A big thank you for the guide, Alletun. Very helpful, and good looking too ;)

Bwian
10-21-2007, 17:30
Got a few new things ready for a show. Been trying without success to make a spectral horde for the Vampire Counts, but I also made these guys.

Wights:
https://img134.imageshack.us/img134/9660/new1ob0.jpg

Even the mighty warriors of old are allowed no rest. Summoned back to fight once more against the enemies of the Old Country.


Meanwhile...down in the hot deserts of the South, something deadly stirs...
https://img89.imageshack.us/img89/5679/new2ow5.jpg
Drawn from the mightiest of the Tomb King's servants, these warriors guard the resting places of the great ones. Tall and strong in life, they dwarf their lesser brethren in death. Deadly warriors to a man.

Even the mightiest of the enemy stand no chance against these undead horrors
https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/3622/new3hf6.jpg

Silly Knicket
10-21-2007, 22:40
Wow... really love those screens.
One thing though... aren´t their armours a bit too "mint condition"?
If they have risen from proper burial sites, it should be fine, but if they have died in battle, their armour should have taken a beating, I think, resulting in some dents and holes etc.

A Norseman
10-21-2007, 22:58
Well.. wights?
I dont find any wight units in the vampire count unit list (http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampirecounts/miniature-gallery/1/)

The only wights i could find, was the wight lord.
And if it is the wight lord you are drawing ispiration for, I assume this will be the absolute cream of the elite for the vamire counts. Soo.. I think they are a little to .. ordinary.. to do the job right. I mean, they are basicly grey feudal knights with skeleton faces. Not the most frightening thing on the battlefield. And realy not a unit who fitt the vampire counts elite.

I have a suggestion, Have you seen the wrights? (http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampirecounts/miniature-gallery/9/) My opinion is that those guys are one of the most awesome unit GW have ever made. And i think they wuld have made a perfect eite unit. Yust take the bodies of the folowers of perkunas and replace the heads with skeletons and make a bigger scythe .. And you have the wrights redy made.
However, the wrights are powerfull.. so a thing like the berserkers in viking invation (minimum unit size, maximum power) wuld work well..



Tomb guards.. Love them!! Realy skilled work.. You have a thing for tomb kings i guess..

Bwian
10-21-2007, 23:45
Wights ... page 27, just before the Ethereal units. Right next to Ghouls. Not sure which version of the armybook it is that I have, but they are definitely there. They would be the dead heroes and nobles, and I figured they would get a proper burial with all the gear.

In practice, when it comes to burial of war dead, the armour was too valuable an item to bury anyway. The victors would cart it off as spoils of war. The 'standard' undead units have a bare minimum of kit...but these guys are more 'elite'. The helmets need a bit more weathering though... something I need to do to quite a few of the undead VC units. Not such an issue for the Tomb Kings. They planned on bringing their armies back to un-life...so would naturally have made sure they were buried with full wargear, which would have been better preserved by the desert conditions.

And I will give you three guesses what army I used to have :egypt:

Enthes
10-22-2007, 00:16
dont like VC much but they look very nice, TK are brilliant as usually cant wait to crush some orc heads :egypt:

Bakma
10-22-2007, 00:29
wow! cool.
is it possible to make pigtails? (plait of hair)

Eufarius
10-22-2007, 00:37
Good St. George that poor man being killed by the Undead.


Frikin wicked man keep it up!

Bwian
10-22-2007, 08:34
Pigtails... yes they can be done. Not on the undead though.....they don;t really suit!

Next project... Ssssskaven

Myrddraal
10-22-2007, 10:46
Ssssskaven

Woooh! Can't wait :jumping:

Enthes
10-22-2007, 12:41
Pigtails... yes they can be done. Not on the undead though.....they don;t really suit!

Next project... Ssssskaven

boo dont like those little rat men though they will fun to crush with a bone giant :smash:

Zapp
10-22-2007, 19:24
Well.. wights?
I dont find any wight units in the vampire count unit list (http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampirecounts/miniature-gallery/1/)

Yes you do, but the name of the regiment is "tomb guard".

http://uk.games-workshop.com/vampirecounts/miniature-gallery/16/

Read the description.

A Norseman
10-22-2007, 21:16
Yea,... I think thats the wights i was looking for. But still, Bwians unit dont look anything like the grave guards on the GW site..

My opinion.. No offense bwian, is that they shuld be redone to the new "grave guards". and not be some grey feudal knight clone.

Bwian
10-22-2007, 21:39
Grave Guards are going to be a seperate unit. These are shown in the Armybooks as a unit in their own right, and basically form an elite undead unit. The Grave Guard are another step up, and are more 'personalised' and elaborate. I consider them to be the sort of unit you will find guarding a Vampire or acting as a 'command' unit. I kept the colours fairly muted as a deliberate choice.

If they don't fit, I can always drop them.

Burns
10-23-2007, 00:59
Beautiful work Bwian!

Just a question... Why do the screenies look so... bad? What I mean is the screenshot quality seems very bad.

Enthes
10-23-2007, 15:57
the screenshots for all TW games look crap dunno why they just do :no:

Bwian
10-23-2007, 18:51
Some screenshots come out well, and some come out utter rubbish!

Trust me... I am enjoying looking at the things in game. The TW game camera is good for playing, but it does lack flexibility for fancy screenshots. Also, I haven't been cranking up the detail and so on for the screenies. I could improve things that way. I don;t have a rocketship PC, and am taking screengrabs in game at the resolutions I play at. I can ratchet up the detail and see how it looks then.

May be I just take crap screenshots :clown:

Zapp
10-23-2007, 19:11
Yeah, I can see that you play at low res, but I don't think that is the major problem, even if it, of course, is one of them. I think you should just take the screenshots, paste them in photoshop (yes, one by one, don't use some other program for it) and just cut away the GUI and so on. Save as JPG with highest quality, cause they will still land on only about 500kb.

Decker
10-24-2007, 00:04
Fantastic Dead Guys Bwian!

A Norseman
10-27-2007, 17:54
okey i think that this far, the Tomb kings are the army who look the best.. Besides the supreeme modeling, I think that the skeleton white and the light blue realy come together on the TW engine:D

The best single unit so far i have to say was the black Orcs.. Aletun
found that brute and savage look i was hoping for.. I pity the empire spearmen who is up aginst those guys..

Anyway, keep up the good work! You have alreddy stunned the tw modding world, and if bwian makes those chariots.. wow.

lanky316
10-27-2007, 18:37
Will we be able to make different skins for chariots? If so then the new Lion Chariots. wolf/boar chariots and one of my personal faves the Black Coach could be possibilities!

Bwian
10-27-2007, 20:34
If we manage to make Chariots for M2TW, then we will make variations. This will include Boar chariots for the Greenskins, plus Tomb King chariots at the very least! The Black Coachis also a possibility..but might present some difficulties in terms of how it is used in game. There would need to be a single one...not a unit of black coaches!

Bakma
10-28-2007, 15:33
Pigtails... yes they can be done. Not on the undead though.....they don;t really suit!

Next project... Ssssskaven


like what you have done so far, il likely paly it when its finished.

hi, sorry for beeing offtopic but is it possible to learn how to add pigtails on units?

thank you.

Bwian
10-28-2007, 18:19
IF you know how to model, animate, use MS3D to add bones and use KE's animation tools... it's easy.

I don't have time to teach though. It is a complicated task requiring a thorough degree of Total War modding skills. Ultimately, you would have to re-make ALL the animations for whichever animation set you want to add an extra head bone, link a mesh to it, and create animations to make it move.

Bakma
10-29-2007, 09:13
IF you know how to model, animate, use MS3D to add bones and use KE's animation tools... it's easy.

I don't have time to teach though. It is a complicated task requiring a thorough degree of Total War modding skills. Ultimately, you would have to re-make ALL the animations for whichever animation set you want to add an extra head bone, link a mesh to it, and create animations to make it move.

ok thanks for the clue :)

Bwian
10-29-2007, 19:15
Best starting point is to download Alletun's handy 'Tome of Knowledge'

He has colelcted together pretty much all the useful nuggets of modding know-how into a very pretty and well presented set of pages. On top of that, he actually has done ALL the things in the Tome, so he is not just passing on the wisdom of others, but rather distilling out the things people need to understand to get the modding jobs done.

There was stuff in there that I didn't know too :book:

Krazysigmarite
10-30-2007, 01:21
No kidding, I learned a few things from reading it as well, it's quite good :yes:

messenger
11-04-2007, 11:55
Gorgeous eye candy! Shouldn't the Wights clothes be abit more rotten and dirty looking though?
Other than that, great stuff, I can't wait to see more Orc stuff.

Spankfurt
11-05-2007, 05:16
~:cheers: ~:cheers: ~:cheers:

This shit's like porn for me.

Silly Knicket
11-05-2007, 19:40
I bet the skaven screenshots will hit me in the head like a rubber salmon...

Bwian
11-05-2007, 23:14
Despite too many hours spent fussing over chariots and such like, I have found some time to start work on the higher status Chaos units. These are the Khorne Knights. Still a work in progress, and in need of a couple of variations on armour yet....

https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8919/khorne1ul7.jpg

https://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5369/khorne2vn9.jpg

I want a couple more versions of chest armour, and some different style shoulder armour. I wanted to try and make the classic 40k look shoulder armour ( cos I think it is great looking ) but I also want something a bit more traditional too. Since these are high ranking units, I want to put in more variations than normal to make them look more individual.

I am also working on 'warped' versions of the stock chaos units.... re-working the bare headed units to make them look more 'chaotic' and also giving the Marauder units a once over. They are looking a bit shabby in comparison to the rest, and I think they might benefit from an overhaul too. Since I am focusing onthe Khorne faction, I don;t intend to go too much downthe tentacle route....but I do want some deformations and oddities in the elite warriors. Canon says once they make the rank of Knights, they are pretty much a permanent fixture in the armour, so the variations are limited to decoration.

Chaos Knights will also get a scaled up 1.2 sized mesh for added impact.

A large and suitably nasty looking horse will be provided for a mounted version of the knight.


Once that is all done, I will move on to the Nurgle units. Then things will get nasty in terms of the texturing.......oh yes.

Eufarius
11-06-2007, 00:29
Simply amazing Bwian I <3 you!

Silly Knicket
11-06-2007, 01:41
Isn't the classic Warhammer look a bit oversized gloves and boots?
While your model looks realistic , it doesn´t really capture the "classic" look of Warhammer models...
Is this intentional?
Not intending to bash in any way, it looks really good, but if I had made it myself (and I am not the one making the mod here), I would have enlarged the hands/gloves, and feet/boots slightly.

Eufarius
11-06-2007, 02:15
You are kind of rite. Not meaning to bash but I think he is right.

Spankfurt
11-06-2007, 02:59
True....what young lass banjeeboy says has some merit. His hands look wayyy too small. they wouldn't even fit around something else's neck! Now this isn't a gang bang on Bwian, just helpfull critisism :)

Silly Knicket
11-06-2007, 04:24
I wouldn´t bother if I hadn´t been so satisfied with everything else in this mod, wouldn´t be nice to have a stain on such a shiny surface :)

Oh... and I'm 30 btw... (Don´t let my poor english fool you...)

alexader
11-06-2007, 10:42
you have made very nice work but i think you have to make more plate armor,the legs are not like that,and it looks too much like 40k models,WAKE UP BWIAN,THIS IS WARHAMMER FANTASY,WAKE UP FINALLY(ok i am just kidding,don't take it personally)but it still good,good job again.may i ask something,i didn't get the think about the names of the caracters,can we make the real names or we have to make different ?keep walking bwian....:egypt:

Jargon
11-06-2007, 10:47
Perhaps increase the waist to chest ratio? I think the chest should be larger and 'drape' over the waist more instead of ending at the diagphram of the lungs. I'm looking at some Chaos Warrior images right now and the chest is very square and dominating fixture, very unhuman looking.

But thats just being picky, great work brian as usual.

Taranaich
11-06-2007, 12:19
Bah, I don't know what the lot of you are talking about, I think it looks fine. Remember that this is the "Vitruvian Man" pose used for modelling, and the model can look quite different from a more "natural" pose, i.e. a lot better. Hopefully Bwian'll post an in-game shot sometime.

I suspect Bwian didn't do much to the hands because they're nightmarish to edit due to all the bones in it, same as with the dwarves' hands. In any case, the overall look of the model doesn't seem to say "the hands are small" so much as "the rest of the dude's body is HUGE!" :P

Course I'm just guessing here:inquisitive:

Bwian
11-06-2007, 13:20
I love the enthusiasm for Waqrhammer :laugh4:

Now...this is still very much a work in progress, and this is one variation on the armour. It is by no means a finished articel, or it would be a shot in-game.

My purpose for showing a WIP is that I am not 100% happy with the overall look of the thing, and this is a damn fine way to get pointers.

Arms/Hands ... can be made bigger... but there are limits. Overdo it, and you start to get issues with the model smoothly moving and not creasing. The solution to that sort of problem is to either add a lot more polygons, or to create a more segmented look. I will explore both options, and will make this guy as bulky as possible.

Legs/Feet. Same deal. Easier to bulk up a bit...but same limitations.

Shoulderpads ... STAYING. There will be more options on this...but I like these pads too much to let them go!

Silly Knicket
11-06-2007, 14:28
The pads are very nice and warhammerish... keep 'em, Bwian! :)

Silly Knicket
11-06-2007, 14:31
Oh... and how's the progress with the waggling (?) tails?

A Norseman
11-06-2007, 17:01
HaHa, Reminds me more of a type of chaos warrior wich are not going to apear in the warhammer world for another 40 000 years..

Great work! Love the models, and itt'll be fun to see them on the battlefield!

Enthes
11-06-2007, 19:04
dont kill me but........ i hate the shoulder pads :no:

IT looks like its straight out of the warhammer 40K world also are you scaling the model up slightly as chaos are slightly bigger than normal humans that would solve the size problem also.

i would rather they looked like the proper fantasy ones as they just plain look better than the 40K ones anyway :2thumbsup: http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/miniature-gallery/images/chaos-warriors.gif

dont get me wrong you are doing a great job but i just dont think that chaos model fits in with the the rest of this brilliant mod :thumbsdown:

messenger
11-06-2007, 19:09
https://img217.imageshack.us/img217/8919/khorne1ul7.jpg

https://img66.imageshack.us/img66/5369/khorne2vn9.jpg


I think with bulkier boots and arms, you could be onto a winner.
That darker, more metallic red suits Khorne alot better then the altogether too bright and shiny armour on the marauders.
Excellent work, you are really pumping out the models and textures at a tremendous rate!

Taranaich
11-06-2007, 20:11
dont kill me but........ i hate the shoulder pads :no:

IT looks like its straight out of the warhammer 40K world also are you scaling the model up slightly as chaos are slightly bigger than normal humans that would solve the size problem also.

i would rather they looked like the proper fantasy ones as they just plain look better than the 40K ones anyway :2thumbsup: http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/miniature-gallery/images/chaos-warriors.gif

Ah, but remember these are the special Khorne units, like these chaps here:

http://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/miniature-gallery/images/khorne-champion.gifhttp://uk.games-workshop.com/hordesofchaos/miniature-gallery/images/khorne-lord.gif

The standard "chaos undivided" warriors and knights will probably look more like the dudes you posted.:2thumbsup:

Also, he is scaling the chaos knights up to 1.2 - a 20% increase, so they'll probably be a whole foot taller than puny Imperials!

Bwian
11-06-2007, 20:18
There will be some other shoulder armour and body armour before I am done. I want as much variation in the unit as I can get.

Likewise with the horses for the mounted version.

The Knights are 1.2 scaled, the stock warriors 1.1 and the marauders are 1.0

The marauders are due a revamp...because when I put them next to the newer units...they look like they need re-doing!

Krazysigmarite
11-06-2007, 20:52
Puny Imperials?! :sweatdrop:

Speaking of which, just a slide-show while I work on knights...
Assembled army
https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2728/empirearmybv8.jpg
Spearmen, Greatswords, swordsmen, etc
https://img159.imageshack.us/img159/854/empirearmy2ff4.jpg
Handgunners firing

https://img362.imageshack.us/img362/3015/handgunnersgp5.jpg

alexader
11-06-2007, 21:25
you've made a great work but firtsly on the greatswords,you should put cloths on the leg that is in the same order like the hand that has cloths and the armor should be a lot more darker,now about the hats the look too much like cowboys,you should try to different this a bit and add more fethers.ok i am getting really angry here so forgive me,but my hubblest opinion is that they need more work,just a suggestion,ok?i don't want to insult your work,i respect it:egypt: .keep up the great work,let the feathers in the sky.

DrZoidberg
11-06-2007, 22:23
I'm going to chime in on the Chaos Warrior. Bigger gauntlets and bigger boots. I think it's all you really need. And they'll look great. Just as some of us pointed out, it looks a bit silly with slim extremities like that.

Enthes
11-07-2007, 00:47
nice to see some empire for once they all look great. only thing is that hat it looks 1 solid colour needs some variation to make it fit in with the rest otherwise fantastic models :2thumbsup:

ellydog
11-07-2007, 12:02
About the chaos warriors, i think they should have a bigger body to head ratio, this is more the warhammer art and not so much the models, it would make them more epic looking.

A Norseman
11-07-2007, 15:27
I actualy liked the empire soldiers in bright white and red. looked more model like and cool. But that is youst me.

Bwian
11-07-2007, 15:40
Ellydog... don't worry about the head/body scale. I have purposely left it a bit outsize on the head, as I did for the Chaos Warriors. When I scale up the unit for the final insertion into MESH format, I play around with the scale to get this just right with the correct sized body. No point in messing around with it at this point...I want to get the look right, then fine tune the scaling.

I have a fix sorted for the hands, and will be beefing up the boots too. Then I have some more armour variations nearly done ( having trouble squeezing it all in to the texture file right now ) and then I will make the final adjustmenst and put it in game.

messenger
11-07-2007, 17:10
I actualy liked the empire soldiers in bright white and red. looked more model like and cool. But that is youst me.
I am pretty sure that's just one of the colour schemes, there are several.

I think those screenies would look even better if it wasn't taken on a hill, the way unit's look on them is pretty wierd.

Zapp
11-07-2007, 17:44
I actualy liked the empire soldiers in bright white and red. looked more model like and cool. But that is youst me.
I don't agree at all really :P I love the new, more realistic look.

thrashing mad
11-07-2007, 18:12
I love all models so far - Empire looks exactly like miniatures which is great. Same goes for Dwarfs, Chaos and Orcs. But I have one suggestion - why don`t you use Cinematic Editor to make close up screenshots like these?:

https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p89/thrashing_mad/wengry.gif

alexader
11-07-2007, 18:41
i would agree with Norseman,red and white would be more terrific.even games workshop use this type of models(red and white)to decorate her imperial units on the books or in internet,but krazysigmarite made a lot of work on the models,so i respact his work(but tha hats with the feathers need work)ok ok sorry,i am not that who will jugde you.C'MON keep on rocking people,we need to play this mod before Empire total war.:egypt:

Krazysigmarite
11-07-2007, 19:02
Altdorf is the capitol of Reikland, and the Empire. Red and Blue are its colours, so that's what we're using. Red & White are the colours of Talabheim - certainly a prominent city in the Empire, but not as important as Altdorf.

Alletun
11-07-2007, 19:20
All Greenskin pics are taken using the CinEd. only problem is it takes so long to maneuver (sp?) around with the cam.

Krazysigmarite
11-07-2007, 19:56
I would take mine with the Cin-ed, but I am totally unable to get the bloody thing to work.

A Norseman
11-07-2007, 21:41
Yea.. Alletun's pictues are perfect. the other, not so much

Eufarius
11-08-2007, 03:09
hey at least were getting pics, done this fast I'm not complaining.
keep up the good work.:2thumbsup:

Love Muscle
11-08-2007, 11:03
I reckon if you zoomed out on the handgunners they hats would look like Christmas santa hats :)
Will making the hands larger make it look awkward when holding weapons? Although Khorne warriors usually do use big weapons :beam:

Bwian
11-08-2007, 11:10
Because of the scaling the Khorne Knights will get, the proportions are more important than the actual size. The weapons will be suitable in size too... ie BIG and POINTY. Khorne warriors should be armed primarily with axes or nasty looking swords. For some reason.... I prefer blunt objects for Nurgle. I suppose the chance of festering internal woulds are greater... don;t know if that's canon or just a personal preference!

Hope to get some more work done on these units this week and get some stuff in game by the weekend.

p.s. My screenshots have a reputaton for being rubbish! Ironically...in life, I also take rubbish photo's!!!!

Jubal_Barca
11-08-2007, 13:39
Yeah. Khorne=BIG+POINTY, Nurgle, blunt, Slaanesh possibly thin duelling swords or harpoons, and tzenteech aanything glowing mysteriously... :book:

Krazysigmarite
11-08-2007, 16:09
I reckon if you zoomed out on the handgunners they hats would look like Christmas santa hats :)

I've heard a lot of criticisms about the hats, but never something like this :san_huh: . They look quite good in-game, and once I get cin-ed working properly, maybe you'll believe me :2thumbsup:

Silly Knicket
11-08-2007, 19:04
The hat looks good, but perhaps you should add some textures to the feathers?

alexader
11-08-2007, 19:53
simple,this is not what the Imperial hat is,this is just a circle normal hat.just look at the new miniatures,and if you making them altdorf state troops i will accept this,but pleaze do it properly,they use white and red feathers(yes altdorf use these)(just look at the army book)not even one blue feather the should use.ok am i not angry,but if we want to get the job done,we must do it properly(just a suggestion)........and the great swords,must wear cloth in the same leg that the hand uses(and the panoply must be a lot darker,even black in the majority),and not only the handgunner(for state troops)wear hats,but the majority of the state troops wear hats(with anormous feathers). you can disagree with me,i will also accept that because you have done a lot of work,but am i saying to you what would the right should be.i don't have problem to leave them how the are now.you are a skilled modder.i would apologise for how did i talk to you.take a note how jubal barca made the hats for his own mod.ok i really sorry for my way,keep up the work.and bwian,have you planed something for realese?i know that you want a fully good realese,i am on your side.and not from the side that the want something to play right now,but how is the world map going by the way?KEEP WALKING...................... ^-_-^ :egypt:

Born in lust for blood
11-08-2007, 20:23
Good job guys. Well done! Im reeeaaally looking forward to this mod. Will get me hooked up badly.

Krazysigmarite
11-08-2007, 20:27
simple,this is not what the Imperial hat is,this is just a circle normal hat.
The big-floppy-hat is certainly an "Imperial Hat," and characterizes much of the army. The smaller one you refer to is also popular, but in order to save time I made variations of the floppy hat. I might get around to modelling the smaller one though, however I am very content with the current state of the army.


just look at the new miniatures,and if you making them altdorf state troops i will accept this,but pleaze do it properly,they use white and red feathers(yes altdorf use these)(just look at the army book)not even one blue feather the should use.

Imperial state-troops are characterized by their ability to have a certain amount of variation within the colour-scheme. It is part of their charm, and I doubt the idea of a blue feather in an Altdorf army who's colours are Red and Blue is too far fetched.


ok am i not angry,but if we want to get the job done,we must do it properly(just a suggestion)........and the great swords,must wear cloth in the same leg that the hand uses(and the panoply must be a lot darker,even black in the majority),

The Red/Black colour scheme you are referring to is of the Carroburg Greatsword regiment, which is garrisoned in Middenland. I don't know why the 'Eavy Metal team has a pre-occupation with painting these guys, but they appear in almost every army book to date.


and not only the handgunner(for state troops)wear hats,but the majority of the state troops wear hats(with anormous feathers). you can disagree with me,i will also accept that because you have done a lot of work,but am i saying to you what would the right should be.

I own an Empire Army, and about 1 in 6 of my infantry have hats, based on what was provided in the sprue-box. Take a look at the cover of your Empire book.


i don't have problem to leave them how the are now.you are a skilled modder.i would apologise for how did i talk to you.take a note how jubal barca made the hats for his own mod.ok i really sorry for my way,keep up the work.

Constructive criticism is good, but be careful when you flat-out say a modder's work is incorrect - rather, make helpful observations. Sometimes you'll get a stubborn modder (Like myself) who thinks the 7th edition Empire look silly, so as a matter of personal taste, I built them based on my 6th edition troops, which I feel best represent them. The 7th edition ones are a bit childish, a step in the wrong direction for Warhammer.

alexader
11-08-2007, 21:25
i will agree with you that the 6 edition is more intresting(i like the type of troops in it),the think about in the new edition is the way that you can make a phalanx,i am an imperial player,i know almost everything about the empire.and i know that the state troops different themselves(yes i opening my army book)and the altdorf state troops have white and red feathers rather than blue and red,now about the infantry,i don't have any problem that your army has 1 out of 6 have hats,in mine i have 4 out of 6 that have hats.also the big floopy hat that you should have in the mod,is not that you have made(you stubborn modderer :)))) now about the greatswords,i am not talking to only the carrouborg,but in the majority they have dark armour.ok krazysigmarite,you are a very talented modderer,i apreciate your work,and in a little that i will learn to mod,i will chalenge you.keep up the good work.(and don't listen to what everything i am saying)keep it up:egypt:

Bwian
11-08-2007, 21:27
KrazySigmarite's point on criticism is well made. Constructive criticism is essential to get the mod as good as we can make it, and is ALWAYS welcome, even if it means a lot more had work :dizzy2:

There are quite a few variations depending on what editions/variations you hold to be true. I am not overly fussy when it comes to an 'edition issue' as long as it is consistent! We should avoid mixing incompatable versions to make sure the armys have a proper 'look'.

Now...release dates.

We need to finish up the factions we have well under construction, and then we can think about having perhaps a small 'custom battle only' release once we have balanced some units.

I know people want to try out these things, but we don't want to lose focus on the bigger mod picture and divert work away from that to make a battle mod.

Zapp
11-08-2007, 23:18
We need to finish up the factions we have well under construction, and then we can think about having perhaps a small 'custom battle only' release once we have balanced some units.

Back at the RTW mod, RtG (I think) did a xml script that converted Warhammer stats to RTW stats. Can't remember exactly how, but there were some kind of mathematical rules on how warhammer stats were converted. It worked quite well I think.

But well, if you think that's a good idea, you need to do the script too...

Enthes
11-09-2007, 03:58
it worked quite well though the combat was a bit slow and it took forever form them to kill each other it was simply who could make the other rout by charging them in the back :laugh4:

Bwian
11-09-2007, 10:06
I am building up a rough conversion spreadsheet, trying to work in some of hte factors. I need to come up with a rough cost/attack.defence kind of sum that will give a balanced overall number. This will give me my base line to work from. It will throw up some daft values, but these can be manually changed. Cannon fodder units with a quarter of the power of say, a Bone Giant would not be a quarter of the cost. There will be a need to build higher buildings and special structures to make such things, and these costs are also a factor. These sorts of things will be manually adjusted.

I also need to choose a baseline. It's an aimportant thing that I need to get sorted, so I am going to move this discussion out of the eye-candy thread, and give it one of it's very own!

Ciaran
11-09-2007, 19:39
it worked quite well though the combat was a bit slow and it took forever form them to kill each other it was simply who could make the other rout by charging them in the back :laugh4:

I daresay that is the whole point - winning without killing every single soldier in the fighting (during the rout that´s fine - and far less dangerous to your troops, too)

Enthes
11-10-2007, 13:57
I daresay that is the whole point - winning without killing every single soldier in the fighting (during the rout that´s fine - and far less dangerous to your troops, too)

i prefer battles where units are locked in combat untill death much more challenging and fun. means you have to get evry unit in the right place fighting the right people.

A Norseman
11-10-2007, 14:14
I like a mix, Unit who kills eachother but rout if chaged by 12 angry bone giants.,

Decker
11-11-2007, 06:48
Wow! the empire looks really good! Nice work. Very gritty and realistic which is nice cuz its not a very flashy place hehe. BTW, are there gonna be any wallpapers coming out? I've been itching to get one of the Bone Giants on my desktop:knight:

messenger
11-11-2007, 10:23
Wow! the empire looks really good! Nice work. Very gritty and realistic which is nice cuz its not a very flashy place hehe. BTW, are there gonna be any wallpapers coming out? I've been itching to get one of the Bone Giants on my desktop:knight:
On that note, I am just itching to have a Waaaagh! as my desktop :beam: .
It's good that you are using the slightly older Empire miniatures as a basis, the current ones seem abit over-exaggerated on the frills. They don't really look like the soldiers that are 6th ed Empire State.

Taranaich
11-11-2007, 16:12
Because of the scaling the Khorne Knights will get, the proportions are more important than the actual size. The weapons will be suitable in size too... ie BIG and POINTY. Khorne warriors should be armed primarily with axes or nasty looking swords. For some reason.... I prefer blunt objects for Nurgle. I suppose the chance of festering internal woulds are greater... don;t know if that's canon or just a personal preference!

Most of the Nurgle champion minis I've seen have a flail or mace, so there might be something in canon for it. Khorne should have axes and swords, definitely, anything that'll cause the most bloodshed. I think Slaanesh should have nasty weapons that don't look like they would kill immediately, but cause extreme pain to the point of disablement: perhaps serrated blades. Tzeentch could have just about anything, but I think pole weapons suit their "sorcerous" nature well, things like halberds, poleaxes, staves, scythes and the like.

alexader
11-11-2007, 19:43
:oops: ok,maybe you miss understood me.i wasn't saying that i like the 7th edition's imperial sloldiers and i want them to be in this mod.but i was saying that this already soldiers that are in the mod have a couple of problems with the appearance of the normal soldiers(of the 6tth edition)for me i don't have any problem with what edition you will use(i personally like the 6th edition)so i just only pointed:book: a couple of mistake(i think you have noticed).i think i have explained my self.keep walking..............:egypt:

Decker
11-11-2007, 20:49
:oops: ok,maybe you miss understood me.i wasn't saying that i like the 7th edition's imperial sloldiers and i want them to be in this mod.but i was saying that this already soldiers that are in the mod have a couple of problems with the appearance of the normal soldiers(of the 6tth edition)for me i don't have any problem with what edition you will use(i personally like the 6th edition)so i just only pointed:book: a couple of mistake(i think you have noticed).i think i have explained my self.keep walking..............:egypt:
No biggie, but aren't there like 80 editions anyways:inquisitive: ?

Jubal_Barca
11-11-2007, 21:06
They're talking about editions of the Warhammer Rulebook/Empire Army Book; the 7th has just been released I believe...

alexader
11-11-2007, 21:07
"No biggie, but aren't there like 80 editions anyways ?"
what? sorry but it's not my mother tongue english,what means biggie.as for the editions are only 7.we are running the 7th edition right now.

alexader
11-11-2007, 21:10
the 7th edition has been released 1 year before,the last summer.it's already official.

DaCrAzYmOfO
11-11-2007, 22:29
no biggie= no big deal= not much of a real problem

alexader
11-11-2007, 22:34
krazysigmarite,why don't you put some cloaks in the free companies,to represent something like wich hunters,should be awesome to have long robs and dark cloaks

Krazysigmarite
11-12-2007, 00:15
I'm revamping free companies because I'm personally not content with them. State troops are staying the way they are, with possibly the addition of little poofy hats.

Eufarius
11-12-2007, 00:20
Most definitely the poofy hats!

Spankfurt
11-12-2007, 02:08
I love the poofy hats!...Please keep the poofy hats....

alexader
11-12-2007, 14:35
yes the state troops are good.keep up the work,for da kaiser...

messenger
11-14-2007, 13:26
Will there be an option to disable your Empire troops from wearing such gear?
War is for killing, not frolicking in fluffy hats and frocks!:laugh4:
Seriously though, the hats are funny, just don't make them sombrero sized like on some of the miniatures.

thrashing mad
11-14-2007, 17:06
Will there be an option to disable your Empire troops from wearing such gear?
War is for killing, not frolicking in fluffy hats and frocks!:laugh4:
Seriously though, the hats are funny, just don't make them sombrero sized like on some of the miniatures.

Well, they should look like that, cause Empire troops resembles renaissance XVth century Holy Roman Empire troops such as these :yes: :
http://www.deutsches-strumpfmuseum.de/images/07_04_Landsknecht16JH.jpg