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econ21
10-05-2007, 13:21
This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.

The list of players and description of their avatars is maintained in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1



*************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

Game settings

*MT2TW with the 1.3 patch
Kingdoms installs 1.3. If you do not have 1.3, there is a free patch you can download and install:
http://download.sega.com/u/med2/patch/1.3_retail/Medieval%20II_Update3_Compatibility_Patch_EFIGS.rar
You need to install this on top of 1.2.
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

Charter Amendment 6.2: Medifix will no longer be used and in its stead, FactionHeir's trait and ancillary fixes will be implemented. He will also take full responsibility of any issues regarding these files, however unlikely these may be after extensive testing.

The only mod we will use is the trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix128a.zip

Charter Amendment CAE1.1: econ21 will be authorised to give AI factions extra florins; for example, by gifting them a lump sum every 10 turns or so.

To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol.

The console command to give 10000 florins to Hungary is:

add_money hungary, 10000

The list of major factions is:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary

The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.

Probably the best practice is to top up factions with less than 50k, at a rate of perhaps 10k per turn.



Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]

Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:
In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.

1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.

OOC Charter Amendment:
(a) Where there are multiple player controlled generals in a stack, then the player who plays out the battle is determined by who the computer designates is in command.
(b) An exception is that Household Armies (and the Army of Outremer) are always commanded by the designated Commander of said army.
(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 1: Amend 1.4 by adding: If no build queue is posted for a settlement, the Chancellor can build what he likes. The Chancellor may upgrade a settlement at any time (ie upgrade the walls regardless of a build queue), unless such an upgrade is forbidden in advance by the governor.

1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.

1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.

1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

Charter Amendment E2.1:
(a) If an Edict to impeach the Chancellor is passed with a 2/3 majority, he is removed from office immediately.
(b) After impeachment, a fresh election is held to elect a new Chancellor, although a Kaiser may also exercise his perogative to be Chancellor at that point.
(c) The Chancellor replacing an impeached Chancellor serves out the remainder of the impeached Chancellor's term.
(d) All edicts passed in the Diet that elected the impeached Chancellor remain valid, unless overturned by new Edicts at the Emergency Session that impeached him.
(e) An impeached chancellor is not granted the additional bonus to influence that an ex-chancellor would normally be given.

Charter Amendment 11.5: All cities must have their maximum amount of free upkeep militia within their walls all times, except when the militia is used to fight armies observed to be within the boundaries of their province.


3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. In the case where there are only 1 or 2 electors in total in a Duke's House, a House edict may still be put forward to the diet requiring only the number of possible seconding electors in the House as seconders.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

Charter Amendment 10.2:
(a) No settlement will be captured without an Edict authorising its acquisition in advance.
(b) Captured settlements will be abandoned or given away unless, at the next Diet session, a Charter Amendment incorporates them formally as part of the Reich.
(c) The 33 existing provinces of the Reich are exempt from (a) and (b).
(d) This amendment overrides the constitutional right of Household Armies to conquer one neighbouring province.
Proposed: Kaiser Henry
Seconded: Conrad Salier, Ansehelm von Kastilien

Charter Amendment 12.1: The province of Bran is to be incorporated formally into the Holy Roman Empire.

Charter Amendment 12.8: Ajaccio and Cagliari are to be incorporated into the Reich. The Chancellor is directed to trade Cagliari to any foe if it can bring about a peace between our nations.

*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.
Charter Amendment 8.2: In addition to the Kaiser, an Emergency Session of the Diet may be called by the Prinz, or if three of the four House leaders (Dukes or Stewards) agree to do so.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +6 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 4 points):
Duke: +3
King: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 2: Amend 4.7 by adding: If a Duke resigns, the Kaiser appoints a successor.

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.


5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.
Charter Amendment 11.7: The section of the Charter which currently reads "5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes" will be changed to the following: 5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes. However, if a rules dispute directly involves the Emperor, the four Dukes of the Realm (or their appointed deputies) will gather to assist the Emperor in clarifying the dispute. A simple vote among the Dukes would decide the dispute, with the Emperor having the tie-breaking vote.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

Charter Amendment 11.2:The Prince is appointed by the Emperor upon his ascension to the throne. Should a Prince die a new heir has to be appointed immediately.[/i]

Charter Amendment 11.1: Whenever a large dispute arises over the legitamacy of one's succesion to a position of high power (Kaiser, King of Outremer, or Dukedom), a council shall be set forth to discuss the events and vote on who shal succede. Should the position of Kaiser be questioned, the four Dukes and the King of Outremer shall decide who is to become Kaiser. Should a Dukedom or the King of Outremer be under dispute, those not directly involved in the dispute shall be part of the council. In order for the council to be formed, at least one quarter of the voting power in the Reich is needed to for the council to be formed. Regarding the dukes, half of the voting period within the house is needed as the same with the King of Outremer which requires half of the crusader's votes.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

Charter Amendment 12.6: (1) Each House will have TWO standing Household Armies. They will operate according to CA5.1 in all respects, but have separate commanders appointed by the Duke.
(2) Outremer will have two standing armies. They will operate in accordance with CA9.1, but have separate commanders appointed by the King.
(3) The Kaiser and Prinz will each command standing Imperial armies, of the guideline size given in CA5.1. The Kaiser and Prinz can each give orders for their army during full Diet sessions. They are expected to personally command their own armies but can nominate a replacement commander at any time if they are too busy attending to civil matters. The Chancellor and the Kaiser/Prinz are expected to liase closely over the use of the deployment of the Kaiser/Prinz's army.


7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose not to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).

Charter Amendment 9.1:

The Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer

1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre, Adana, Aleppo, Edessa and Damascus.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a King of Outremer, who will be appointed by the Emperor at each full Diet session. The King will temporarily renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment (e.g. if Duke, must appoint a Steward). The King of Outremer may propose up to 3 personal Edicts during each Diet session, but 2 must specifically deal with Outremer affairs. (Stricken portion overridden by Kaiser due to conflict with CA11.3.

5. The King will command a Household Army, both acting according to Charter Amendment 5.2 (with the King assuming the role of “Duke”). He may delegate the day to day command of the Army (assign other generals to lead it in battle). However, contrary to CA5.1, to be in accordance with article (1), the Army may not be used to permanently conquer neighbouring provinces (recapturing Christian settlements taken by non-Christians and returning them to their original owners would be allowed).

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusading Counts. These will also be appointed at every Diet, by the new King. The Dukes and the Emperor will set the build queue for any provinces without a Count which are allocated to their control.

7. Both the King and Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. Damascus is assigned to Austria; Adana is assigned to Bavaria; Acre is assigned to Swabia; and Aleppo is assigned to Franconia. Antioch will be the capital of Outremer and an Imperial province governed by the King of Outremer. Edessa will also be an Imperial province, governed by a Count chosen by the King of Outremer. The Crusading Count for a settlement must come from the appropriate House. They will gain +1 influence, but only if they are not already a Count in their Duchy, and only for the Diet session that marks their appointment. The cap of 6 influence for all but the Emperor remains.

Charter Amendment 11.3: The King of Outremer is allowed to propose three Edicts (or Charter Amendments) per Diet Session. Prior to being tabled in the Diet, these must be seconded by two Crusader Counts in the Council of Crusaders.

Charter Amendment 11.6: The position of King of Outremer is appointed by the emperor. This appointment lasts for the duration of the emperors reign or the Kings lifetime, whichever is shorter. The King of Outremer is permitted to resign, if the emperor is willing to accept the resignation, upon which a new King is appointed by the emperor. If the King of Outremer is deemed incapable of the assignment, he may be impeached by the emperor and 2 Dukes.

8. Historical armies

Only historical armies can fight battles (ahistorical stacks can be used for transport).

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Revised maxima for each unit type by number of units in stack

3^Type|1-5|6-10|11-15|16+
7^Generals|2|2|2|2
7^Knights|2|4|6|8
7^Cavalry|2|4|6|8
7^Missile inf|2|3|4|6
7^Elite inf|2|3|4|6
7^Other foot|Any|Any|Any|Any
7^Artillery|1|2|3|4


Crusades are exempt from restrictions on the number of generals.

Unit type definitions:
- Knights: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights or equivalent heavy cavalry.
- Cavalry: Any mounted knights plus non-knightly cavalry (Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants, Turcomans etc)
-Foot missiles: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners etc
-Elite infantry: Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass
-Other foot: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

TinCow
10-05-2007, 13:44
Thread is misnumbered. This is XIV.

edit: econ21's last post from thread XIII pasted below for ease of reference, since it's important


So we come to it at last...

CHAOS! CATACLYSM! ARMAGEDDON!

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

Ok, enough already. I am going to post a provisional report on 1312 soon. There is a minor battle that Dutch_guy needs to fight before I end 1312. As I will be away from M2TW until Sunday night, we are going to have to leave it there and not press "end turn". So in character, we are late in 1312 - too late to do anything, but we can comment on what has happened and plan what to do in 1314.

We are virtually at the stage we planned for 1320 - order is breaking down and so you can contact me as gamesmaster to make individual orders for what your character does. You can defy Elberhard, your Duke etc. I will try to make moves on the map that I think plausible given the character's wishes or, if I don't know your wishes, what I assume would be his wishes. I would like to avoid player vs player battles, as the focus on the cataclysm is going to be on fighting the AI, not each other. But if they do arise, we can find a way of modelling them.

Where you are physically perhaps should start affecting Diet speeches. When all hell breaks loose, your character probably is not going to be commuting back to Rome to pontificate. Writing stories or sending PMs might be a better way of role-playing player interactions. (Perhaps some PM exchanges could be posted as stories). Elberhard will be stuck in Acre, so he won't be doing Q&A sessions. The Diet Speaker may step in, but he may also prove susceptible to Theodora's charms. Be gentle with him.

It's probably best not to toggle the fog of war, but if you do see Matthias Steffen catching some sun, don't believe it - it's just a mirage.

In recognition of the cataclysm, we will open a new OOC thread.

GeneralHankerchief
10-05-2007, 13:46
Placeholder in the Stories Thread has been replaced.

Northnovas
10-05-2007, 13:56
What kind of dice are we using for those unrest rolls? A 4 sided, 6 sided or an eight? Jeez, I thought I would never mention a 4 sided or 8 sided die in conversation for the rest of my life span. That was a very long time ago.:embarassed:

TinCow
10-05-2007, 14:00
I have a 100 sided sitting around somewhere... perhaps I'll use that.

Privateerkev
10-05-2007, 14:06
Having lived in dorms and studio apartments for the past few years, I gave up trying to find enough room to properly roll dice. So, I switched to using RNG's for my boardgames.

http://www.random.org/

Northnovas
10-05-2007, 14:21
I have a 100 sided sitting around somewhere... perhaps I'll use that.

A 100 and I thought 20 sided was big enough for %. That would need a lot of rolling room. I also forgot the good old 12 sided.

The RNG's is interesting but it takes away the ole wrist action for those crucial lifesaving moments.

TinCow
10-05-2007, 14:24
A 100 and I thought 20 sided was big enough for %. That would need a lot of rolling room. I also forgot the good old 12 sided.

The RNG's is interesting but it takes away the ole wrist action for those crucial lifesaving moments.

I bought the d100 for novelty purposes only when I was a kid, since it's a pain in the butt to use. It is almost spherical, which means it take a long time to stop rolling. Even then, it's very difficult to figure out what number is actually facing upwards. It's easier to use 5d20.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Zocchihedron2.jpg/250px-Zocchihedron2.jpg

StoneCold
10-05-2007, 14:37
Hmm... So GH going to stomp on the pope again? How many will this pope make? The 3rd one?

Privateerkev
10-05-2007, 14:38
4th or 5th I think. :yes:

He is a Pope stomping machine. :D

Stig
10-05-2007, 16:06
It would be easier to use 2 with 10:
1 to set the decimal, 1 to see what will be the exact number

Tamur
10-05-2007, 16:12
The RNG's is interesting but it takes away the ole wrist action for those crucial lifesaving moments.

Ha! yes, very good Northnovas. If I roll them it's somehow entirely my fault I missed that saving throw. Clicking a mouse, I have a lot else to blame -- the mouse, the computer, the internet, Bill Gates...

Dutch_guy
10-05-2007, 16:18
Ok, battle done. Uploading the save now...

EDIT: having problems with the Org file uploader, am I the only one ?

:balloon2:

TinCow
10-05-2007, 16:27
Make sure the save is compressed (.zip or .rar) because otherwise the file size is too large.

GeneralHankerchief
10-05-2007, 16:48
4th by my count.

econ21
10-05-2007, 16:48
If you get it loaded in the next couple of hours, Dutch_guy, I might be able to press end turn and set up any defensive battles for the weekend.

Stuperman
10-05-2007, 16:59
and the fun begins, just out of curiosity, is Rome now an Imperial settlement?

TinCow
10-05-2007, 17:33
Rome has been Imperial (Kaiser's property) since the day it was taken.

FactionHeir
10-05-2007, 17:35
It always was...well ever since GH took it that is.

Dutch_guy
10-05-2007, 18:37
OK, it worked finally - I'm guessing the problem was some sort of local connection problem.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/1312-4-fin.rar

:balloon2:

FactionHeir
10-05-2007, 18:49
Econ, Please move Ruppel and Hans as per my PM (they still have a bit of movement left that can be used for their respective destinations) before ending turn.

Stuperman
10-05-2007, 20:17
Hey guys, I'm going out of town for thanksgiving (the Canadian one is in October) and will be away for aprox 48 hours. econ21, has my orders for HAG, If I have any battles, uh, any free Bavarian can fight them, although with econ gone too, I doubt it will be an issue.

p.s. sorry for the short notice.

gibsonsg91921
10-05-2007, 22:05
o yeah, tancred followed peters orders well. he'll be rewarded!

peter droppin' the stories again. check it out! more insight into this tragic hero's plight.

econ21
10-06-2007, 00:17
Just a note to say that I have received the PMs people have sent with orders for their avatars and have stuck them in a Word file to execute on Sunday or later. I'll do my best to follow your instructions within the limits of what is possible/plausible. I won't reply unless it is to clarify the request OOC or it is some juicy roleplaying for Elberhard IC, so don't interpret silence to mean dissent.

FactionHeir
10-06-2007, 00:37
Might be worthwhile passing some of the PMs onto TC for DM purposes as well I think.

GeneralHankerchief
10-06-2007, 14:36
It's interesting that most of the catastrophic stuff is happening around 1312-1314 - i.e. 1313. :hide:

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 14:47
peter is boasting - check out the stories thread!

TinCow
10-06-2007, 14:49
It's interesting that most of the catastrophic stuff is happening around 1312-1314 - i.e. 1313. :hide:

Says you. Bad things are planned for 1316 and 1318 as well.

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 15:08
just wait till i bust out!

OverKnight
10-06-2007, 15:18
I wouldn't be all hell bent for leather there sparky. We're safer in Jail. Just like late game Monopoly. :laugh4:

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 15:24
haha - well, im gonna restore order in a havoc-wreaking way

AussieGiant
10-06-2007, 15:36
Gibo, I'd suggest that if you aren't careful you might get yourself killed there fella. :beam:

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 15:41
im planning im planning, i have many noble allies and general peasantry find me pretty cool

OverKnight
10-06-2007, 15:44
Wasn't it havoc wreaking that got us into this mess in the first place? I understand that the gloves are off with the cataclysm voted in, but people are going a wee bit mental.

If, and it's a big if, we had pulled in one direction, we probably could have pulled off unification, or at least avoided some of the pit falls.

Of course, Matthias is hardly without sin in that regard, so I should probably shut it. :laugh4:

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 15:47
haha i mean that my order restoring is going to involve a lot of violence, most likely

Privateerkev
10-06-2007, 18:48
If, and it's a big if, we had pulled in one direction, we probably could have pulled off unification, or at least avoided some of the pit falls.

Um, there we're only about 2 avatars for unification. ^_^

There was Siegfried as well but he was NPC by that point. A couple others might have supported it for political reasons but thats it. In my opinion, it was never going to pass and was basically designed to honk everyone off IC. :yes:

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 18:53
i think he meant unification within the Reich, instead of strife.

gibsonsg91921
10-06-2007, 19:30
guess whos back
back again
peters back
tell a friend

guess whos back
guess whos back
guess whos back
guess whos back
guess whos back
guess whos back
guess whos back
na na na

check out the diet for more!

GeneralHankerchief
10-07-2007, 02:14
Okay, informal poll. Who here has played Medieval II multiplayer before?

*doesn't raise hand*

I think we should set up a time to practice online just in case our character gets into a scrum with another HRE avatar. I might be on tomorrow evening (GMT -5) if anyone wants to fight.

Privateerkev
10-07-2007, 02:17
I haven't and I would probably just ask TC to figure out the results and delete some units.

Tamur
10-07-2007, 05:55
*doesn't raise hand*

After getting my proverbial handed to me three times in a row a month after STW came out, I haven't touched MP except for a brief stint in MTW just to prove how bad I am.

If it does come to civil war battles, I think the best way to run it would be to have a GM running things, with FoW, etc like econ21 did with the end of WotS. I know we've got at least a couple of people with tabletop experience who could run games. My only concern would be that the ones running the games would need to be consistent amongst themselves with movement & battle rules.

Ferret
10-07-2007, 11:32
*half raises hand*

I played against my brother on LAN once, but we were just mucking around. However I would still rather fight the battle on multiplayer and lose than have a games master tell me my army has been destroyed.

Stig
10-07-2007, 11:57
*raises 2 hands*
apart from this campaign I don't play any. I only play MP (but I [word not allowed on this site] it up so now I can't anymore, would have to reinstall).


And MP battles are not the way to fight this out:
1. because HRE can't fight HRE.
2. because setting them up takes weeks not hours.

Warmaster Horus
10-07-2007, 12:02
Stig's right about HRE vs HRE, but we discussed that before, no? Using other factions with (approximately) the same troop line-up.

Anyway, I can't. My laptop doesn't have an internet connection, and the computer I'm using can't even run RTW well.

Stig
10-07-2007, 12:21
Stig's right about HRE vs HRE, but we discussed that before, no? Using other factions with (approximately) the same troop line-up.
No, as you will lack Zweihanders and the like.
I can make a little mod tho, giving all HRE units to the Aztecs or so.

Also we have to figure what to do with veterancy. In MP units can only get bronze chevrons, while there are generals with 3 golden chevrons, that gives them:
+9 morale
+9 attack
+9 defense


But since you can't even play MP this idea is out anyway

Ferret
10-07-2007, 15:32
I just had a random off topic idea but I thought I'd post it anyway. If KotR does end for any reason then I think a Kingdoms hotseat may be fun. Whereas there are not many factions each faction (or as many as possible) will be ruled by players just like the HRE is in this game. This will allow for factions to develop in different ways and faction relations will be much deeper. Of course this idea is full of problems but hey, it's just an idea.

Dutch_guy
10-07-2007, 15:33
I guess I could play a MP battle if needed, although I've never actually done it before - it'd be a first for me at least.

:balloon2:

GeneralHankerchief
10-07-2007, 15:44
All right, well, I'll be on around 17:00 GMT -5 tonight if anyone else wants to fight. Password will be econ21.

And happy birthday to PK! :medievalcheers:

Cecil XIX
10-07-2007, 15:47
I just had a random off topic idea but I thought I'd post it anyway. If KotR does end for any reason then I think a Kingdoms hotseat may be fun. Whereas there are not many factions each faction (or as many as possible) will be ruled by players just like the HRE is in this game. This will allow for factions to develop in different ways and faction relations will be much deeper. Of course this idea is full of problems but hey, it's just an idea.

Indeed, I like that idea as well. We wouldn't be able to command our own battles, but it's still something I'd like to try.

Ferret
10-07-2007, 15:51
Yeah the battles are one of the biggest problems, as well as the fact that not very many people here have Kingdoms. I'll just wait and see how much interest there is before doing anything.

Stig
10-07-2007, 16:23
All right, well, I'll be on around 17:00 GMT -5 tonight if anyone else wants to fight. Password will be econ21.

And happy birthday to PK! :medievalcheers:
There's a very small chance I might be there 5% or so.

Anyway, my ingame name is UgliStig (or UglyStig, I forgot whether I used a i or a y)

Privateerkev
10-07-2007, 16:46
And happy birthday to PK! :medievalcheers:

Thnx GH! :beam:

actually a beer seems like a good idea right about now. to bad all of you are hundreds (or thousands) of miles away.

but no, I get to spend my b-day... reading a book for class. :book:

yippee

gibsonsg91921
10-07-2007, 17:01
ive done MP before, but i aint very good

Dutch_guy
10-07-2007, 17:05
All right, well, I'll be on around 17:00 GMT -5 tonight if anyone else wants to fight. Password will be econ21.

And happy birthday to PK! :medievalcheers:

That's not exactly a great time for all the GMT + 2 people :sweatdrop:


:balloon2:

Stig
10-07-2007, 17:10
We're GMT+1

Dutch_guy
10-07-2007, 17:25
We're GMT+1

Hmm, the Forum tells me: Alle tijden zijn GMT +2. De tijd is nu 18:23.

Confusing...

:balloon2:

FactionHeir
10-07-2007, 18:44
Happy birthday PK.

Stig: If it takes weeks to set up, then we'll just resolve em in another way.

My availability is usually GMT evenings but not from 20th Oct till 10th Nov due to relatives coming over and that kind of stuff. Have never played M2TW online. I only played MTW over LAN many times many years back.

gibsonsg91921
10-07-2007, 19:16
GMT -6 FTW!

Northnovas
10-07-2007, 19:34
Thnx GH! :beam:

actually a beer seems like a good idea right about now. to bad all of you are hundreds (or thousands) of miles away.

but no, I get to spend my b-day... reading a book for class. :book:

yippee

Well no that's no excuse to stay dry. I 'll crack one open now catch the football scores and enjoy this awesome summer weather we are having for an October Thanksgiving weekend.:holiday: ~:cheers:

gibsonsg91921
10-07-2007, 19:35
it was pretty hot by me for homecoming last night - i was glad im too tall to afford a jacket. i had a killer time anyways, but when ur waiting in line, you're dying of heat

econ21
10-07-2007, 20:45
There were no defensive battles in 1312, so we are now in 1314. I will edit the Chancellor's report for 1312 soon.

Some battles for 1314:

Duke Ansehelm(Stig):
The Poles are besieging Thorn. Drive them off. As they are excommunicated, you may attack as many times as you see fit. But be aware that the Treasury is now bankrupt, so any losses you suffer cannot be replaced.


Count Friedrich Karolinger(Warmaster_Horus)
You may sack Thessalonica. @#$%^&!!! it, it is against everything I believe in. But we are bankrupt. We need the money.

You will not be punished for sacking Thessalonica, but you will still have to walk home - we could not afford to pay the sailors and so the fleet has disbanded.


Count Becker (CecilXIX)
The Hungarians have you besieged in Bucharest. You must sally out if you are to unite with Count Zirn and then be able to return to your beloved Prague.


King Jan (Privateerkev)
You may attempt to fight your way through to Caesarea to find Matthias Steffen. However, it is not recommended. You would have to fight through first one Turkish army and then an army of our angry Eastern Roman brothers. It would be better to send a small raiding party - perhaps your retinue and volunteers accompanied by some mercenary Turkomans - to use stealth to find and resuce Matthias.

For your army, I would recommend instead that you return to retake Aleppo. Although it was gifted to the Byzantines last turn, they have bothered to secure it. A show of strength by Army of Outremer North should reclaim it. The fleet is being disbanded after it lands Army of Outremer South. We are stuck in Outremer. You will need a base of operations in the North.


Dietrich von Dassel (GeneralHankerchief)
Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!


http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1314-1.zip

Privateerkev
10-07-2007, 20:51
Well no that's no excuse to stay dry. I 'll crack one open now catch the football scores and enjoy this awesome summer weather we are having for an October Thanksgiving weekend.:holiday: ~:cheers:

Oh I never claimed I would stay dry. It would just be nice to tip one back with you guys. I have a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale sittin in the fridge with my name on it. :D


Happy birthday PK.

Thank you! :bow:

Privateerkev
10-07-2007, 21:03
Have the save!

AussieGiant
10-07-2007, 21:21
Happy Birthday PK

GeneralHankerchief
10-07-2007, 22:00
All right, I've set the game up, just waiting for another player.

It's called something like KotR cataclysm practice, password is econ21. 15,000 florins. I took the HRE (sorry) but didn't take any unique units with the exception of Imperial Knights, but most other Western Euro factions have their equivalent.

-edit- ten more minutes to join before I close up and start shooting things.

Privateerkev
10-07-2007, 22:24
Happy Birthday PK

thnx AG! :bow:

Fought my Birthday Battle! Took 1300 men into Aleppo, exterminated everyone and burnt the whole place to the ground.

JK

I will say that it is annoying to take over an hour to kill 60 guys. Had to roll my cannons up to 3 separate points in the Citadel to blast a hole. Here's my link and I'll pm Econ the stats.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1314-2.zip

Stig
10-07-2007, 22:27
Hey GH, don't alt-tab and get back in the game ~D

GeneralHankerchief
10-07-2007, 22:33
Back in, sorry. Didn't realize they DC'd you that fast.

GeneralHankerchief
10-07-2007, 22:55
Right... taking the save now. Remind me not to get into a conflict with Ansehelm ever again.

Privateerkev
10-07-2007, 22:56
Happy Pope Stomping!

:yes:

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 00:18
It's done. That was a really fun battle to fight.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1314-3.zip

Prisoners/city executed. Dietrich was feeling frisky.

Battle report coming, but in the meantime let me show you the benefits of having a bad CPU and probably the greatest death in KotR ever (outranking even Fredericus).

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/KotR/kotr_177a.jpg

https://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n231/GeneralHankerchief/KotR/kotr_182.jpg

econ21
10-08-2007, 00:57
Curses, foiled again!

I thought you would have had a real fight on your hands facing three Papal armies. But I never reckoned with your trusty CPU.

This may be a case of bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted, but please can people sack and ransom where possible? We are really short of cash now. None of it is my doing - just going to war with Byzantium (and mass riots) has switched our economy from a 30-40k surplus to -12k deficit. Ironically, TinCow had come up with a great storyline to justify us not recruiting any more men. But unless I can turn things around financially, it will be quite redundant. The game has done the job without us needing the plot twist.

Oh and another point - this game is getting dangerous. As we are still on the scripted portion, I am cheating to keep people alive (TinCow and Dutch_guy, you owe me). The AI armies are pretty powerful - check out Becker's predicament - and now that we don't have full stacks that are endlessly replenishable, we are going to be in for, literally, the fight of our lives. I suspect when TinCow takes over in 1320, the gloves will be off, so be careful out there!

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 00:59
Can I get kept alive too if they get kept alive? :grin2:

As for reinforcements delayed due to lack of CPU, we can remedy this with a simple switch in the prefrence file:
unlimited_men_on_battlefield = 1

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 01:03
Nah, I already have an IC excuse to justify it, and if you think I'm going to re-fight that battle, well...

:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

econ21
10-08-2007, 01:03
Can I get kept alive too if they get kept alive?

:inquisitive: You want me to keep performing medieval CPR to make Hans KotR's version of Mr Burns? It's possible. TinCow did that for me in the Apollonia incident in WotS[1]. So I guess he doesn't owe me - we are even. :bow:



[1]I even alluded to in a battle report:



...Quintus wanders round the gardens of the Provincial Palace in Apollonia. He stumbles and falls. A man from the shadows runs up to him and grabs him roughly. The ex-Consul's body is still and lifeless.

"Not yet you don't!" The shadowy figure raises his fist and crashes it down on Quintus's chest. Quintus coughs and starts. "Chirurgeon!" the unknown figure calls out loudly, before gently placing the old man on the grass and disappearing back into the undergrowth...


I don't know who will kill me first - the Greeks or my frail heart. At least it seems unlikely to be one of Verginius's agents, for now anyway. The incident in the gardens seems to prove that.


https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1177713&postcount=9

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 01:32
Oh, forgot some extra Chancellor's Report-worthy stuff:

France, Poland, and Hungary have been reconciled. We, amazingly enough, have not.

OverKnight
10-08-2007, 01:35
Geez, GH, why don't you just cut and past the whole "Reconciliation is Imminent" speech from the good old days. :laugh4:

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 01:38
After you see what Dietrich did to Durazzo in the battle report you'll understand. :tongue: I don't think the Papacy would forget that in a while.

And plus, he doesn't really care one way or another, unlike certain past Kaisers. :laugh4:

Northnovas
10-08-2007, 02:12
As for reinforcements delayed due to lack of CPU, we can remedy this with a simple switch in the prefrence file:
unlimited_men_on_battlefield = 1

Is that a text file? Because when I go under preferences I don't see where that can be modified. I opnly had it come up once in another mod and would like to change it.

OverKnight
10-08-2007, 02:13
If you check econ's FAQ in the citadel, I believe it has info on changing it.

Stuperman
10-08-2007, 04:56
I'm back, glad to see it all hasn't gone to hell, yet. Just for clarification, my vote regarding the Lutherans was for OOC reasons, I didn't realize the IC politics, at the time.

econ21
10-08-2007, 07:48
While we are waiting for players to fight there battles, everyone could take the opportunity to plan their move for 1316. If it is just a continuation of their orders for 1314, don't sweat it. But there might be changes - for example, does Fredericus Erlach want to retake rebel Marseilles? We sure could use the money from sacking it. Ditto Fritz and Stettin.

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 07:53
sack our own settlements? that might not go over well with some characters. :no:

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 08:27
You mean not with us chivalrous ones at least :yes:

Northnovas: Open with Notepad

Ignoramus
10-08-2007, 08:43
So let me get this straight. Athawolf is a staunch Lutheran, yet he is staunchly loyal to Hans, who is a staunch Romanist?

Elberhard, care to join my side?

Stig
10-08-2007, 09:11
Oh and another point - this game is getting dangerous. As we are still on the scripted portion, I am cheating to keep people alive (TinCow and Dutch_guy, you owe me). The AI armies are pretty powerful - check out Becker's predicament - and now that we don't have full stacks that are endlessly replenishable, we are going to be in for, literally, the fight of our lives. I suspect when TinCow takes over in 1320, the gloves will be off, so be careful out there!
Ah, a traditional case of: hate to say I told you so

econ21
10-08-2007, 10:05
Ah, a traditional case of: hate to say I told you so

I don't think the risk is unexpected - rather, I think it is what people were voting for when they chose to authorise the cataclysm. The PBM was getting too comfortable, except for one or two players at the sharp end (Xdeathfire, the Franconians around Thorn).

AussieGiant
10-08-2007, 10:15
Hi Econ,

Do you need anything from me regarding movement?

econ21
10-08-2007, 10:22
Hi Econ,

Do you need anything from me?

No, you sent me orders - that's fine. AHA2 is pretty weakened due to desertion. And I'd like to leave the Prague and Budapest player controlled garrisons with something a bit more than just militia for the cataclysm. Given GH's CPU wimped out of taking on the full might of the Papacy, his army may still be near full strength. If so, I'll probably give some of it to you to even things up. They were Austrians trained at Ragusa afterall.

AussieGiant
10-08-2007, 13:49
Hi Econ,

Sure that sounds like a good idea with Cecil and Roadkill essentially being the interior governs leading the line, while Northnovas and I have what's left of the AHA's to try and defend Bran and Ragusa.

I'll take what ever is left and head south to Ragusa.

TinCow
10-08-2007, 14:36
Oh and another point - this game is getting dangerous. As we are still on the scripted portion, I am cheating to keep people alive (TinCow and Dutch_guy, you owe me). The AI armies are pretty powerful - check out Becker's predicament - and now that we don't have full stacks that are endlessly replenishable, we are going to be in for, literally, the fight of our lives. I suspect when TinCow takes over in 1320, the gloves will be off, so be careful out there!

What danger was I in? I thought I was nice and safe inside Florence.

econ21
10-08-2007, 14:53
What danger was I in? I thought I was nice and safe inside Florence.

Governors are far from safe inside rioting cities. I had to move Lothar to the fort and Tancred to his boats, as either or both of you kept dying in riots when I hit end turn.

The other thing that caused me to reload was poor Pope Abbate. Sometimes he would call for a crusade on Tunis and require Prinz Peter to join. It would have been cool, but did not really fit our narrative.

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 15:02
Actually, that is pretty smart of him.

Pope Abbate: "Ah my little Lutheran, I will distract you by demanding that a Holy Crusade be sent to... oh I don't know... um... Africa? Yes, Africa. And I demand that you go lead it. Yes, that is entirely appropriate. A man who probably doesn't even believe in God should lead a Crusade to take an African territory that no one cares about. Get right on it."

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 15:32
Actually, that is pretty smart of him.

Pope Abbate: "Ah my little Lutheran, I will distract you by demanding that a Holy Crusade be sent to... oh I don't know... um... Africa? Yes, Africa. And I demand that you go lead it. Yes, that is entirely appropriate. A man who probably doesn't even believe in God should lead a Crusade to take an African territory that no one cares about. Get right on it."

:laugh4:

gibsonsg91921
10-08-2007, 16:13
haha what a n00b. good thing he's dead

Stuperman
10-08-2007, 17:45
Retaking Marseille sounds very tempting, but I hit end turn to see what happens with that sicilian fleet threatening my Duchy, and, er, yeah. Just have Fredericus and HAG continue back towards Italy.

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 17:50
IMHO, your not "supposed" to make IC decisions based on hitting the end turn button.

I guess you can say Fred got some sort of dream of Sicilians coming on a fleet of ships but my point still stands.

just my opinion. as I've stated in earlier posts, i'm not a big fan of meta-gaming.

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 18:28
Agreed, IC decisions for the character shouldn't be made based on information that cannot be obtained at the turn we are currently at officially.

Tamur
10-08-2007, 18:33
On the other hand, Fritz is currently making decisions based on strongly held convictions and a very incomplete picture of what's happening.

This is based on Fritz' player not having time to load up the game except once a week. I'm not sure I'd suggest this approach either, as it will probably get Fritz killed.

:dunce:

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 18:39
On the other hand, Fritz is currently making decisions based on strongly held convictions and a very incomplete picture of what's happening.

which is a lot like real life. In life, you try to make the best decision you can with the information you have. And I "try" to RP that. I attempt to make Jan's decision based on what I think "he" knows, as well as balancing in his traits. It's impossible to be perfect with this but I try to come close.

Also, another problem with looking ahead, and using that to decide your IC decisions, is that the game has a bit of randomness thrown in. Many times I have looked ahead to see what marriages and births will happen, and then our official save game does something else.

Stuperman
10-08-2007, 18:45
Given the amount of OOC influence in the game at the moment that is a bit of a hard pill to swallow, but I suppose you guys are right. Fredericus would probably March south on Marseilles, I'll 'officialize' in a couple of hours, I gotta run right now.

Stuperman
10-08-2007, 18:51
I just thought of something, Fred's MP are done for this turn, so it's a moot point, I'll just wait to issue orders at the begenning of next turn.

p.s. wewt! double post.

Northnovas
10-08-2007, 19:17
Also, another problem with looking ahead, and using that to decide your IC decisions, is that the game has a bit of randomness thrown in. Many times I have looked ahead to see what marriages and births will happen, and then our official save game does something else.

Yes, it does have randomness and I remember going 10-12 turns ahead to see when Meckle would marry to get an Austrian avatar and it was never the same after each new save. It was a long wait.
Also, it is only a game and the enjoyment of the game is honour system. We all are going to go ahead a few turns out of curiosity but never reveal a possible spoiler because that can change too. There were avatars killed by Inquisitors or assassins that never happened in the official game play. Like not revealing a spoiler players would be honourable making decisions on what information they are given. I think that is happening because there have been surprises for everyone.
It is a wonky AI.

Stig
10-08-2007, 19:23
Taking the save

Stig
10-08-2007, 19:47
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1314-4.zip

Also, we got a new Pope, decide me secretely wanting to make him Spanish I choose the German one.
And we've been reconsiled

Also, cheat me some armies to save Ansehelm ~D
Seriously, I need them

Tho these Poles were beaten the way I beat GH yesterday, archers from behind :laugh4:

econ21
10-08-2007, 19:49
Stuperman - I am afraid I've scrapped nearly all fleets as a cost cutting measure. Ajacco will have to sink or swim on its own.

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 19:49
Don't worry, won't be for long if Dassel has his way :wink:

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 20:01
I'm confused. GH whacked the pope but the thing for choosing the new one came up on Stig's turn? :dizzy2:

Edit:

NM, I just realized GH didn't choose anything and let the option "hang". It came up for Stig so he picked it. I need food to make my brain work right... ^_^

Stuperman
10-08-2007, 20:04
I figured Corsica was doomed, meh, I guess I have to go beg my duke for a new county.

econ21
10-08-2007, 20:06
I'm sorry - I did not realise we would get a Papal election at the end of GeneralHankerchief's save. Stig, please can you refight your battle using this save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1314-5.zip

The Spaniards won the election. (We are not getting out the cataclysm so easily.)

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 20:06
SM: Bavaria does seem to have an abundance of them. I'm sure you won't have too much trouble. ^_^

Tamur
10-08-2007, 20:07
I am afraid I've scrapped nearly all fleets as a cost cutting measure. Ajacco will have to sink or swim on its own.

Given the manner of any fleet's demise, good luck to Ajacco on sinking or swimming.

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 20:12
The election was not at the end of GH's turn really.
As I posted back then when GH's first incarnation whacked Gregory and the others (and was decried for revealing an "exploit" which it is not), whenever you load a savegame that does not have an elected pope, the game will pop up the election screen allowing you to go through the entire college in 1 turn if you wanted to (whack, save, load, elect, whack...)

Stig
10-08-2007, 20:12
Econ I don't have time to refight :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3: :furious3:

I refight tomorrow

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 20:14
I wouldn't advocate Stig refighting.
We can continue the cataclysm easily by GH attacking the stacks nearby (which he probably would, or rather the papal units wouldn't take his actions kindly)
This would also result in one less HRE cardinal candidate which is good.

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 20:15
The election was not at the end of GH's turn really.
As I posted back then when GH's first incarnation whacked Gregory and the others (and was decried for revealing an "exploit" which it is not), whenever you load a savegame that does not have an elected pope, the game will pop up the election screen allowing you to go through the entire college in 1 turn if you wanted to (whack, save, load, elect, whack...)

Ah I see. Thanks for explaining that. :bow:

Now I need food so I can go back to making regular mistakes instead of hunger induced ones. ^_^

econ21
10-08-2007, 20:33
I wouldn't advocate Stig refighting.
We can continue the cataclysm easily by GH attacking the stacks nearby (which he probably would, or rather the papal units wouldn't take his actions kindly)

Good thinking. Let's do that. GeneralHankerchief can't get out of Durazzo without battling the Papal stack outside. His fleet is too small, but his army is superior anyway.

Stig - don't worry about refighting.

Battles remaining this turn:

GeneralHankerchief

and

Warmaster Horus

Please use Stig's save, ie:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1314-4.zip

EDIT: for story purposes, let's say we did not get reconciled. (I never realised it was so easy if you have stacked the college of Cardinals).

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 20:54
Lousy rotten stinkin' Papacy. It's almost as if they had something against me.

I'll take the save once I'm done doing the report for the destruction of Durazzo. Should be up in a couple of hours.

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 21:50
Battle report up, taking the save.

-edit- NOT going to fight. econ, check your inbox in a second. I guess that means we're still working with econ's save (1314-5).

Stig
10-08-2007, 22:01
Nah, we can have 1 single unit attacking Jeruzalem or something

RoadKill
10-08-2007, 22:08
Okay I would like to inform everyone that, (in my stupidity), I severly scratched my MTW 2 disc, and now for some reason my computer can't sense the disc in the dvd-drive and won't run the game, so I will be unable to do anything with the game, so I need someone to fight my battles for me and stuff like that? Anyone willing?

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 22:22
Nah, we can have 1 single unit attacking Jeruzalem or something

We don't have many units to spare. :no:

Plus, it wouldn't make sense. Jan would be quite happy to have us reconciled. Everything is a-ok as far as he is concerned. Can't think of any possible reason why he would attack Jerusalem.

Ferret
10-08-2007, 22:30
You could roleplay it as a single regement wanting to follow Luther and attacking the city on their own. That would still get us excommunicated, which I take it is where we want to be during the cataclysm?

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 22:33
Or we could just cheat.

Go with the create_unit blah blah blah, send them off to attack whatever Papal thing is closest, disband them immediately.

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 22:34
Why isn't Dassel attacking the Papal Army anyways? I thought that was what he wanted. Is he afraid of losing too much of The Army of Eventual yet Fulfilled Papal Stomptitude? :inquisitive:

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 22:35
Dassel has other things to do and does not want to waste time in fruitless attacks now that his objective has been completed.

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 22:38
Once, we honk off the Papacy this turn, Dassel will just get besieged by that army anyways on the Papacy's next turn. Going to have to fight them some time. Unless you want to ask Econ to wait a turn before getting us excommunicated again. That way Dassel can leave on a boat next turn when he has some MP. But I think Econ wants us to take the civil disorder hit sooner rather than later.

GeneralHankerchief
10-08-2007, 22:41
I'm aware of that, thank you. :yes:

Privateerkev
10-08-2007, 22:43
I'm aware of that, thank you. :yes:

Thats what I am here for. Now go forth and smack that army! :whip:

:clown:

econ21
10-08-2007, 23:07
Roadkill, I would be happy to fight your battles for you.

The 24 hour deadline for battles has expired and given the current impasse, I will take back the save. We will work from Stig's save, but in the story, we are still excommunicated (I'll find a way).

The siege of Thessalonica is still ongoing - I assume Warmaster Horus still has not been able to patch to 1.3 and/or is snowed under with work. Becker is left in a very tough spot in Bucharest, but Cecil and I have liased, so we have options.

I am inclined to end the turn, then upload a start of 1316 save with no moves, giving everyone 24 hours to PM me with movement orders. If there are any no-brainer battles, they could be fought during that period.

FactionHeir
10-08-2007, 23:21
Warluster agreed to engage Hümmel and has MP left, so you can still do that this turn.

Ignoramus
10-09-2007, 00:27
As we're both in Australia we could do that in multiplayer.

gibsonsg91921
10-09-2007, 00:39
this could have interesting results.

econ21
10-09-2007, 01:41
All right, I pressed end turn. I will write a report on 1314 tomorrow. This is the savegame which everyone is encouraged to inspect (don't toggle fow or press end turn though):

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1316_try.zip

I have not adjusted for desertion and possible order penalties yet.

Players have 36 hours to liase and submit their orders to me via PM.

The "no brainer" battles that can be fought now are:

Fritz (Tamur):
You have besieged Stettin using its expelled garrison and your cavalry. Now bring up the Saxon Household Army and the Hamburg garrison to crush them in a show of force.


Ansehelm (Stig)
The Poles are besieging Thorn... again.


Friedrich Karolinger (Warmaster Horus)
The walls of Thessalonica are still beckon.


In addition, we have a player vs player battle:
Hummel (Ignoramus) vs Von Salza (Warluster)

There are a number of options to resolve this (aside from diplomacy).
(1) multiplayer
(2) a refereed "table top" style battle like we did for WotS (but to save time, I will simplify it to two stages - deployment/battle plan; and mid-battle adjustment)
(3) mirrored battles vs the AI: I will set you each up with a battle vs the AI. You each write a battle report and a savegame. TinCow and I will judge which one of you did better; we will use the savegame of the winner.

If the two parties agree on one of the three methods within 24 hours, I will help them set it up. If no method is agreed, I will find a quick non-interactive way of resolving it - perhaps setting it up so the computer can autoresolve it.

Ignoramus
10-09-2007, 01:50
So if it's done with multiplayer, what sort of battle will it be?

TinCow
10-09-2007, 01:55
Wow, that was fast. I was hoping both sides would have some time to build up armies first.

Ignoramus
10-09-2007, 02:02
Well Wolfgang isn't going to flee from Athawolf, so he's got no choice.

Cecil XIX
10-09-2007, 02:06
How long did the PVP battles take in WOTS?

GeneralHankerchief
10-09-2007, 03:06
The shorter one (Ancyra) took about a week, the longer one (Rome) took around 2.

Of course, that was the only action happening during the turn, so it wasn't an inconvenience to take that long.

-edit- Actually, those aren't good examples to use, really. These were massive battles (equivalent of 4 stacks for Ancyra and 5 & change for Rome) and in Rome's case, lots of coordination was required. Here each side has approximately 5/6 of a stack and, as econ already mentioned, he's modifying the turn system to make it shorter.

-edit again- All this WotS talk makes me feel like an old man. "Back in my day we had real Civil Wars! With over five stacks and the fate of Republics at stake! None of this namby-pamby, two-turn, two-stack, battle over Duchies stuff! Bah!"

Warluster
10-09-2007, 06:57
Well I like options 2 and 3, don't really want to do it multiplayer, as I don't play it and have absolutely no clue 'bout it.

Option 3, hm... nah. Judging, etc. Bah, I like number 2 where we sort of verus each other.

Ignoramus
10-09-2007, 07:06
I've never done a Medieval 2 multiplayer before, so we're even.

I'd prefer to fight it out in multiplayer, but if you're unable to, then I'd go for option 2.

But let's work out which style we'll use before 24 hours are up so econ's job is easier and we don't delay the game.

Warluster
10-09-2007, 07:49
Well I'll see how I do trying to work multiplayer.. its not too hard, right?:grin3:

Ignoramus
10-09-2007, 07:50
It shouldn't be. Especially since we're on the same time zones.

FactionHeir
10-09-2007, 08:23
Wow, that was fast. I was hoping both sides would have some time to build up armies first.

Well, either has a full stack (well, Wolfgang has less than a fullstack, but Salza has a few militia), so I guess that counts as "build up", since we are bankrupt and have no capabilities of recruiting any troops.

econ21
10-09-2007, 09:10
I forgot one other "battle" for 1316, arguably the most important: Becker (Cecil) and Zirn (Northnovas) at Bucharest.

The Hungarians are maintaining the seige of AHA1 within Bucharest. You have two options:
(1) Have Count Becker sally - hoping your cannons and walls will allow you to overcome a superior, but perhaps passive opponent.
(2) Bring up the Bran garrison and have Karl Zirn attempt to relieve Bucharest. Your forces would be divided, with the main component (AHA1) entering as reinforcements. The odds would be 2:3 against you, but better than if Becker sallies.

Ignoramus and Warluster - why don't you have a trial MP battle using whatever forces you like? If it works, we can set up a battle where your forces roughly correspond to what you have on the campaign map. If it does not work, we will set up a "tabletop" style encounter. Thinking about it, it might be best in three stages: deployment; plan of attack; mid-battle revisions.

AussieGiant
10-09-2007, 10:46
I'm pretty concerned about the boy's out east I haev to say.

It's certainly exciting though.

Ignoramus
10-09-2007, 11:47
When would be a good time for a test, Warluster?

TinCow
10-09-2007, 12:18
Just checked the save for the first time in a while. WOW. econ21 has done a very good job at helping the Reich deteriorate in a 'sensible' manner. I was planning on pumping up the AI when I took over, but I doubt that will be necessary. Even if we resumed playing as normal, it would be challenging.

Ferret
10-09-2007, 17:04
Is it just me or has the Duchy of Franconia thread disappeared?

Privateerkev
10-09-2007, 17:09
It's past the 2 week mark that a lot of us have our forum settings at. Just increase your range and you'll find it on the 2nd page. :yes:

FactionHeir
10-09-2007, 17:10
You can select at the bottom of the forum which threads to show. Select more than 2 weeks.

Tamur
10-09-2007, 17:11
We're a talkative bunch, us Franconians. Just not to each other ~:)

Privateerkev
10-09-2007, 17:12
We're a talkative bunch, us Franconians. Just not to each other ~:)

:yes:

Jan is downright gabby.

FactionHeir
10-09-2007, 17:21
Swabia is worse. Usually just me talking :laugh4:

Privateerkev
10-09-2007, 17:34
Swabia and Franconia are full of very independent minded folk. Just a theory but it could have had to do with the fact that Xdeathfire and DG were not very active in the game for awhile. SM, TC, and AG all stayed active in their house's politics. I think it is no coincidence that Bavaria and Austria seem relatively united, while Swabians and Franconians have pretty much gone their own way. So, that would effect how talkative the House threads are.

Warmaster Horus
10-09-2007, 20:04
Indeed, I am sorry econ, but I was still unable to update. Add to that a major french assignement, and, well, you get the picture.

Tomorrow, a friend should allow me the use of his USB, so I should be able to update tomorrow. Eh, I've already downloaded the file, so it will be a quick process. If there aren't any problems, I should be fighting the battle tomorrow, early afternoon.

econ21
10-09-2007, 21:07
Just to say, now that we are back in surplus, players need not feel obliged to sack/ransom. I suspect now the fall into deficit was not due to loss of trade with Byzantium but rather lots of our cities rioting (I guess rioting cities generate no income?). Last turn, I lowered the probability of forced VH taxes to 1/6 from 1/2 and moved the capital back from Acre to Innsbruck (Acre seemed a little harsh on Swabia), so things are more relaxed... for now. :evilgrin:

Privateerkev
10-09-2007, 21:22
Just to say, now that we are back in surplus, players need not feel obliged to sack/ransom.

:jumping:

Edit: Now I don't have to worry about disobeying the GM anymore. Well, at least with this. ^_^

Stig
10-09-2007, 23:16
Swabia and Franconia are full of very independent minded folk. Just a theory but it could have had to do with the fact that Xdeathfire and DG were not very active in the game for awhile. SM, TC, and AG all stayed active in their house's politics. I think it is no coincidence that Bavaria and Austria seem relatively united, while Swabians and Franconians have pretty much gone their own way. So, that would effect how talkative the House threads are.
Nah, it because of the roleplaying of the characters.
Fritz, Ansehelm and Peter are more or less the same, but that also means their different. Being dreaded they care most about themselves. Dieter is in the Outremer and Tancred (and DG) has gone missing.

Sides I personally don't bother to post there anymore, can't Jan give up his position of King (there's no Kingdom anyway) to make it more active ~D

FactionHeir
10-10-2007, 00:22
I suspect now the fall into deficit was not due to loss of trade with Byzantium but rather lots of our cities rioting (I guess rioting cities generate no income?).

Low taxes caused the main drop in revenue. The second major drop was due to capital movement - vast increases in corruption. Third was riots that destroyed buildings that generate income.

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 03:03
Nah, it because of the roleplaying of the characters.
Fritz, Ansehelm and Peter are more or less the same, but that also means their different. Being dreaded they care most about themselves. Dieter is in the Outremer and Tancred (and DG) has gone missing.

Sides I personally don't bother to post there anymore, can't Jan give up his position of King (there's no Kingdom anyway) to make it more active ~D

Yeah, but I theorize that it had at least partly to do with a semi-active duke (Gunther and Scherer). It's not just that the Franconians have dread. Austria and Bavaria have dread too but they have Duke's that have been really active for a long time. Ansehelm inherited a Duchy that always seemed a touch independent so he can't change it overnight. He is trying though and it seems to be working a little as evidenced by Dieter moving over to Saxony (he is presently walking up through Austria).

As for Jan being Franconian, he still is obviously. But, he sees his role as King as being an independent operative answerable to the Kaiser. That and the falling out between Jan and Ansehelm made that split easier. Peter's, Fritz's, and Tancred's recent actions have all made Jan feel even more split from his Duchy. Plus, the mere existence of Outremer provides Jan with an "out" where he can concentrate on that and leave the Ducal politics behind. So, the point of all of this is, he could post in thread but probably won't.

gibsonsg91921
10-10-2007, 03:40
yeah, peter will do that

Tamur
10-10-2007, 05:37
I am taking the save. I regret that the people of Stettin are about to feel the wrath. But Fritz looks on the bright side... at least we'll have a well-laid out graveyard!

OverKnight
10-10-2007, 06:06
I guess inciting revolt is a two-edged sword. :laugh4:

Remember putting heads on stakes is more economical than using pikes.

Tamur
10-10-2007, 06:24
Fought and won. Stettin sacked for about 9400 florins, save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1316-1.zip

I didn't see any other saves besides 1316_try, so that's what I based from. Hopefully that was ok. I will post up stats asap tomorrow, but for now I've got to sleep a bit.


Remember putting heads on stakes is more economical than using pikes.

lol! luckily I had a lot of dead spearmen around at the end of the battle, which made it all very economical.

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 06:29
the people of stettin were just following Fritz's example... :yes:

At least he didn't exterminate em. :beam:

Ignoramus
10-10-2007, 07:12
Sorry Warluster, but we'll have to do a table-top style battle. My older brother has a lot of assignments due in the next four days, and as only his computer can run MTW2 I won't be able to do a multiplayer.

I assume econ's running it?

Warluster
10-10-2007, 07:44
I don't mind, I was slightly panicking at the idea of a mulitplayer battle anyway.

econ21
10-10-2007, 08:04
Yes, I will oversee the table top battle.

I intend to take back the save tonight. Not many people have taken the opportunity to fight their battles or send me new orders. But there will be another 24 hours tomorrow for the battles and I guess most people think their orders given in 1314 still apply (I did ask for their orders when most moves on the map had been made).

One possible device for giving orders is to specify the coordinates of where you want your character to be. To find the coordinates of a point, put your cursor there, open the console (pressing ' on my keyboard) and type show_cursorstat. This might be useful in a very tactical situation or where there are no obvious landmarks. No guarantees I will place you there, but it will at least clarify your intentions.

Stig
10-10-2007, 09:38
Going to fight my battle this afternoon

Northnovas
10-10-2007, 11:38
I intend to take back the save tonight. Not many people have taken the opportunity to fight their battles or send me new orders. But there will be another 24 hours tomorrow for the battles and I guess most people think their orders given in 1314 still apply (I did ask for their orders when most moves on the map had been made).

The Austrians, Cecil is waiting for the AI turn for a defensive battle at Bucharest.

TinCow
10-10-2007, 12:22
If Warmaster Horus cannot fight, Bavaria would be most grateful if the siege of Thessalonica were simply abandoned and his army began its march back home. It would seem... strange for this siege to continue otherwise.

Warmaster Horus
10-10-2007, 12:34
I'm working on it. I'll take the save in about 45 minutes.

Sorry for taking so long...

EDIT: okay, forget it. Issues... There will be no thessalonica battle. The siege will be abandonned, and Friedrich should be going back to Bavaria.

Stig
10-10-2007, 15:44
Taking the save

Stig
10-10-2007, 16:23
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1316-2.rar

Fought and won

AussieGiant
10-10-2007, 16:37
So do we know the details of how the treasury was taken?

I'm always unsure about how much we can take from the stories.

Can anyone give me a hint?

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 16:40
when in doubt, say you heard a rumor. ^_^

Stig
10-10-2007, 16:48
I never use things from Stories IC ... as Ansehelm cannot hear a story in Adana


btw Econ, going to send you orders in a bit

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 16:54
Well, you try to use your best judgment. A story about two people having a conversation is probably secret and you shouldn't use it. A story about an event that you were not at, is different. People talk. People hear things. You can claim that you heard something as a rumor. Doesn't have to even be true. It's a rumor. Though the use of rumors could effect how your perceived by others. Just like real life.

As for the money heist, it is the diet speaker himself that started the rumor. you can definitely use that. There are rumors that the Kaiser and Empress took the money. And there is a rumor that the Empress is missing. Details about the heist is probably still OOC knowledge unless someone "investigates".

*edit*

ok, the empress missing is not a rumor. The Diet Speaker was pretty clear about that. But her participation in the heist is a rumor unless/until someone investigates or econ reveals more.

Tamur
10-10-2007, 17:01
Fritz uses the golden rules of unchivalrous behaviour:


any rumour defaming your enemies is true
any rumour exposing your own guilt is false
anyone who does not play by these rules is an enemy

Makes life very simple, really. Also sounds like a supervisor I had a couple of years back.

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 17:09
with the story thread, i always go the safe route and assume that Jan would not know it IC. Then, I look at every fact and try to think if Jan would know it IC. Then I try to see if there is enough to start an "investigation". If I feel like it, I'll pm the GM and state my case as to how and why Jan is investigating. The GM will decide whether it is valid. Then I may or may not get permission to pretend that OOC knowledge is now IC knowledge. Then I can have Jan act on it.

It's how Jan rescued Matthias. I read the story but only knew it OOC. TC and I were able to figure out what our character's knew from it IC and start from there. TC decided that the battle-site would be reasonably easy for the Adana garrison to find and sent that information to Jan. (he pretended the Adana garrison told Lothar. Then Lothar told Jan.) I asked Econ IC and OOC if Jan could investigate. Due to my avatar being so close, Econ signed off on it. He then gave me permission to treat OK's story as IC information. Jan also wrote Theodora a letter and asked her to look into it. Econ replied IC as Theodora and told Jan even more information. Then Jan acted off of that by rescuing Matthias.

Stig
10-10-2007, 17:14
Well, you try to use your best judgment. A story about two people having a conversation is probably secret and you shouldn't use it. A story about an event that you were not at, is different. People talk. People hear things. You can claim that you heard something as a rumor. Doesn't have to even be true. It's a rumor. Though the use of rumors could effect how your perceived by others. Just like real life.
Aye, something like that yes
If I write a story it's most of the time about things Ansehelm thinks about ... no-one knows those things.
However I sometimes also create some sort of background story (Schloss Folklung, Gert von Runstede, many small skirmishes with Poles leading to a battle (while in real there was only one big battle)) ... and those are more or less known to others.

econ21
10-10-2007, 17:20
With the heist story, I think pretty much all of it would be public. Captain Jan would find out the Treasury caravan had disappeared - the abandoned wagons on the road to Naples would be uncovered; there would tracks and eye witness stories of riders heading south at haste. It would be pretty clear the Byzantines had grabbed it. Theodora's letter to the Treasury, her disappearance, her "I'll be back" note and the fact that her servant was leading the caravan would all point the finger of suspicion at her setting up the heist.

I can't see any part of the story that would remain unknown - it was written largely from the German - specifically Captain Jan's - point of view. And the good Captain would tell all (well, not a transcript of the conversations, but the essential facts).

TinCow
10-10-2007, 17:26
TC decided that the battle-site would be reasonably easy for the Adana garrison to find and sent that information to Jan. (he pretended the Adana garrison told Lothar. Then Lothar told Jan.)

Actually, the info I gave you came straight from a PM OverKnight sent me telling me what the response was to my inquiries about Matthias' location. I did not invent it.

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 17:35
Ah, I did not know that. Well, my way would have worked to. I think it would have been entirely reasonable for the Duke of Bavaria to have been given a report from the Adana garrison. Especially finding the battle site. That's what I assumed happened. Well, we all know what happens when you assume...

^_^

TinCow
10-10-2007, 17:49
Well, that is pretty much what happened. That was info sent to Lothar from Outremer in response to his attempts to find Matthias. The only difference is that OverKnight wrote it, not me.

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 17:53
True. My point was, in my opinion, it would have been ok if you had wrote it. Thats all. That is what I originally thought you did. But since I believed it would be reasonable for Lothar to know that IC, I didn't question it.

But, it seems I have been operating off of a faulty assumption the whole time. Story of my life... ^_^

Tamur
10-10-2007, 18:24
I think if we become any more precise with this discussion, we'll all have very bad flashbacks to graduate school. Heaven forbid!

Privateerkev
10-10-2007, 18:26
but... I'm in graduate school! o_o

must examine my own assumptions. must examine my own assumptions. must...ect...

*says this while shivering in a fetal position*

econ21
10-10-2007, 19:47
Taking back the save. I am worried about Bucharest and won't end turn until I hear from Cecil, so there may be another battle or two tomorrow.

Northnovas
10-10-2007, 20:17
Taking back the save. I am worried about Bucharest and won't end turn until I hear from Cecil, so there may be another battle or two tomorrow.

If he is unable or does not get back within a reasonable time frame then I will take the save and fight the battle. We did agree that he would fight the Hungarian dogs.

econ21
10-11-2007, 00:17
We have a defensive battle for 1316 for Matthias Steffen (Overknight):

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1316-5.zip

Report for 1316 coming up soon.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 00:44
the package has been dropped. stand by for fall-out.

GeneralHankerchief
10-11-2007, 00:56
Oh God I wish I wasn't on a boat right now.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 00:57
rally to my aid, lutherans!

ironically im a catholic in real life (not a crazy one tho, for all u prejudiced fools! lol)

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:08
the package has been dropped. stand by for fall-out.

Oh I am waiting for fallout but I'm not seeing any... ;)

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:10
just wait till more lutherans log on lol

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:14
That whole "mob rule" thing didn't serve you guys too well at the Diet session now did it? ^_^

Without the "banstick", you guys can only yell a lot. Nothing more. :yes:

GeneralHankerchief
10-11-2007, 01:17
I guarantee you that if we had a Diet session as normally scheduled the pro-Kaiser crowd would experience a significant defeat.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:19
Only because there has been a script written specifically to honk a lot of people off. ^_^

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:37
peter isnt so ball-less as to ban people who speak. wait until they get violent, then theyre outta here. if jan wants to talk to peter, how about in person?

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:39
Ok, then Peter can call an emergency session if he is really Kaiser/Prince. ^_^

As for Jan, he is back in Outremer. He left to rescue Matthias and hasn't returned to the Diet since. Travel has gotten a lot harder lately.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 01:43
haha, well the end of the term is almost here, and i'd annoy so many people OOC that I wouldnt bother. i dont want to slow down the game in an intense spot like now, unless econ is going to be gone or something and it wont move on anyways. besides! hes gamemaster lol i cant unelect him and use my 2-year prerogative lol

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:48
In other words, Peter doesn't have the authority that he claims he has. ;)

Remember, in-game, we don't know Peter is Prince. So, some won't believe it without proof or word from Elberhard.

RoadKill
10-11-2007, 01:53
I feel like I'm the only one supporting Peter constantly.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 01:59
Oh I have a feeling Peter is getting plenty moral support from behind the scenes. ^_^

He did what a whole lot of characters wanted to do. :yes:

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:04
yeah, nobody else is logged on. i hope a pro-peter guy comes on before FH or econ lol.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:10
At the moment, more pro-Peter guys wouldn't do much but add to the yelling in the Diet. Which could be fun but would do nothing to prove Peter's case that he is Prince. ^^

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:15
true, but if enough people are yelling there wont be enough voices to drown them out.

coup d'etat of napoleon, any history buffs?

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:21
They can yell but they can't actually do anything. Once it stops being fun to debate with them, the clerk will just fade out.

I've been having a blast though. :yes:

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:25
haha. im gonna create a poll thatll last 2-3 days so i can be voted survivor or off the island.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:27
Or you can just wait until Econ says something IC that will confirm what the M2TW game has declared. ^_^

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:35
well, this is the plot that we're going by as justification. econ and I are working on this, and i came up with the idea to "usurp" the power. but there are backroom dealings between us. why was i released from jail and permitted to speak in the Diet without any fight? maybe if econ wants we can post the meeting between Peter and Elberhard's representative at Peters jail cell in the stories thread, its a nice quick read at least.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 02:37
Well, OOC I know something is being worked out but we need to find out IC eventually. It's not that I the player don't believe you. It's just that my character remains wholly unconvinced at the moment.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 02:40
yeah, but i dont know if elberhard is going to submit so readily. maybe since he has 2 authority itll roleplay nicely. this is a somewhat democracy, the diet session can get a lot passed if i lobby a nice coalition.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 03:01
I think it's time to put the Diet conversation into the OOC thread. :D


haha i know where its from, its ironic. im pretty left-wing myself, but moderate on some issues

Yeah, I admit seeing my sig underneath Jan's call for divine right to rule is somewhat ironic. :D

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 03:02
yeah lol

its like under bush's posts, his sig is

"Yale graduate."

o wait, he did graduate from Yale. o god...

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 03:03
He is "Skull and Bones". :yes:

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 03:03
yeah, hes a "Bonehead" alright.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 03:05
Along with a lot of his family. Same with John Kerry. That was one of the many amusing things about the 2004 US Presidential election.

You could have a Yale graduate that belonged to the Skull and Bones or,

A Yale graduate that belonged to the Skull and Bones.

Boy I love having "choices" in a democracy...

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 03:08
yeah dude. ya gotta go ron paul this time around, or unfortunately clinton/obama. im not a clinton fan, but obama wont make it alone it seems.

RoadKill
10-11-2007, 03:09
Gibson you should've stayed in jail, me and Econ had this crazy thing set up so I can break you out a jail then go on a rampage.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 03:10
haha econ let me out tho

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 03:12
yeah dude. ya gotta go ron paul this time around, or unfortunately clinton/obama. im not a clinton fan, but obama wont make it alone it seems.

ron paul? heck no. :no:

clinton? um no.

obama? he talks a great game but I have seen little substance. so no.

I feel like I have no heroes... :shame:

TinCow
10-11-2007, 03:31
What exactly happened with Becker? I thought that battle was going to be fought manually.

gibsonsg91921
10-11-2007, 03:34
i like the libertarianness of ron paul. hes a little crazy but he beats the crap out of the other repubs, and none of the dems strike me.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 03:36
i like the libertarianness of ron paul. hes a little crazy but he beats the crap out of the other repubs.

Not a fan of libertarian ideology.


What exactly happened with Becker? I thought that battle was going to be fought manually.

theory in spoiler

I am not at home and can't load up the save game, but something tells me econ used the magical warp machine for Becker

OverKnight
10-11-2007, 06:19
I will fight my battle after work aprrox 1300 GMT. I took a glance before I left for the job, despite the bridge it looks nasty with all that heavy cav. Judging by the map you think the damn byzzies are cloning Kwarzimen. Must be some weird result from all those gifted cities.

Pray for Matthias

Ignoramus
10-11-2007, 06:44
Or TC's creating units via the console. Why else does Naples has 8 units of Mercenary Crossbowmen? It could have been worse, who knows what other suprises he has up his sleeve...

OverKnight
10-11-2007, 06:50
Sometimes when you gift a city to another faction, it ends up with a wonky garrison.

During Otto's term as Chancellor, I gifted Jerusalem to the Papal States. Half the the new garrison was artillery. When I gifted Cagliari to Sicily, the placed filled up with Fuedal Knights, nothing else.

So for some reason when we handed over Outremer the new garrisons ended up with a bunch of Kwarzimans.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 07:29
Pray for Matthias

Ah it doesn't look that hard. :D

They don't have arty so they should just march in a tight row right into your kill zone. All of those horses are pretty much useless for them on a bridge.

I love bridge battles. :yes:

Have fun!

OverKnight
10-11-2007, 07:33
I'd be happier if I had more than two units of spears. Bridge battles are easy, but I can't take too many casualties due to the local situation. I am uneasy.

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 07:34
We'll see about sliding those cannons over to you by the end of 1318. Those will equal things out a bit. :yes:

econ21
10-11-2007, 08:09
TinCow and I want to impose a news blackout from now on.

Please do not load up the save. If you have to - for example, you have a battle to fight - please do not tell anyone in the Throne room what you see - whether in character or out of character - unless it is specifically confined to what is adjacent to your avatar.

I realise this announcement may be counter-productive. Hear's the rush of a dozen pairs of feet racing to load up the save... :shrug:

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 08:11
TinCowI realise this announcement may be counter-productive. Hear's the rush of a dozen pairs of feet racing to load up the save... :shrug:

Nah, I loaded it already. :laugh4:

*noticed that econ and TC have warped Jan to Cuba in revenge.* o_O

ok, I'll be good...

AussieGiant
10-11-2007, 08:46
I guess Bucharest was an Auto Resolve no?

Things seem to be going to hell in a hand basket :laugh4:

Arnold's inbound with some comments and orders.

econ21
10-11-2007, 13:55
Since I've asked people not to peak at the savegame, I am unsure how to go about collecting orders for 1318. This will be the last turn under my supervision - then TinCow will take over.

Probably the best I can do is say I will make moves that I think best fit your character's aims and the local situation.

If you want to provide specific direction, please PM me. I'd like to set up any battles tonight and then handover to TinCow tomorrow night. So you have about 24 hours to give me instructions (if I make a wrong move for you tonight, I can always use the console to undo it).

OverKnight
10-11-2007, 14:57
Oh econ21, I forgot to mention that I ransomed the prisoners for nearly 4,000 florins. I figured we could use the money, unless of course, it gets stolen again. :laugh4:

Perhaps its best if Matthias just holds onto it for now.

Edit: Keep Matthias on the bridge for now.

econ21
10-11-2007, 15:14
All right - I will devote 4000 florins to King Jan's marriage ... I mean Outremer's defence.

It's a shame those unhorsed knights are no longer recruitable - I think they were the best infantry in the game for HRE. Skin flint Chancellors. :beam:

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 15:34
*still waking up*

Jan got married?

Thats just...awesome...

I've had stories rolling around in my head for weeks regarding that possibility. :yes:

AussieGiant
10-11-2007, 15:57
Aer you guy's #$%^#@$ing kidding me!!??

Jan got married!!

I wish I had #$#$ing nuclear weapons!! :wall:

Privateerkev
10-11-2007, 16:03
Aer you guy's #$%^#@$ing kidding me!!??

Jan got married!!

I wish I had #$#$ing nuclear weapons!! :wall:

One of the many reasons I find this so awesome. Now if Jan gets a boy soon, that will be icing on the cake. It would be even better if he names him Arnold. ^_^

"fat dumpy stuck up Jan" gets married while "chick magnet Arnold" gets shunned at the alter. I love this game. :beam:

StoneCold
10-11-2007, 17:06
TC, Econ, with the news blackout, will we be getting a new update on the Imperial Library? For people without the game, aka. me, it is very difficult to imagine the state of the empire as of now without a map. I can't imagine going another 10 turns without one... :P

econ21
10-11-2007, 17:11
TC, Econ, with the news blackout, will we be getting a new update on the Imperial Library? For people without the game, aka. me, it is very difficult to imagine the state of the empire as of now without a map. I can't imagine going another 10 turns without one... :P

Funny you should mention that... TinCow was just saying that - with all the gamesmastering he will be doing - he will find it hard to update the library. Would anyone like to volunteer to do it for him in 1320 and 1340? If someone could take screenshots of avatars and upload them somewhere, TC or I could edit them into the library as required. There's also a fair bit of other material needs updating - I think Factionheir helped out with that last time.

But don't worry, the news blackout is for 1318 only. After that there may be some funky stuff going on in the saves (like Matthias in Timbucktu), so people probably should not post about it unless their character would know or TC has approved it. But the "do not load the save" instruction is for 1318 - the present turn - only[1].



[1]Now that Overknight has fought his defensive battle we are officially in 1318.

Northnovas
10-11-2007, 18:59
Funny you should mention that... TinCow was just saying that - with all the gamesmastering he will be doing - he will find it hard to update the library. Would anyone like to volunteer to do it for him in 1320 and 1340? If someone could take screenshots of avatars and upload them somewhere, TC or I could edit them into the library as required. There's also a fair bit of other material needs updating - I think Factionheir helped out with that last time.

I will do that just how often are the screen shots taken so many game turns/years? I just don't go through every save but if there is an event to an avatar of every 5 turns an updated photo I can do that and save it for future editing.

Tamur
10-11-2007, 19:07
Updated the active duty list, I'll be out of commission till Friday night GMT.

econ21
10-11-2007, 19:16
I will do that just how often are the screen shots taken so many game turns/years? I just don't go through every save but if there is an event to an avatar of every 5 turns an updated photo I can do that and save it for future editing.

Thanks, Northnovas. :2thumbsup: The library is updated every 10 turns, so we are due an update in 1320 when TinCow takes over and 1340 when the cataclysm is scheduled to end. The tedious part is that characters have some many traits, one screenshot does not catch them - you have to take several of each character, scrolling down the traits, and then edit the first to overlay subsequent ones. However, there are only about 18 avatars.

TinCow
10-11-2007, 19:18
I will do that just how often are the screen shots taken so many game turns/years? I just don't go through every save but if there is an event to an avatar of every 5 turns an updated photo I can do that and save it for future editing.

It is done every 10 turns (every formal Diet session) and the next one is due in 1320, which is also the start of my phase of the cataclysm. Taking the screenshots is not very time consuming. It is pasting them together to make single images that show all the traits and retinue for each avatar that takes up the most time. Some avatars, like Hans and Arnold, require 5-6 screenshots each just to make a single Bio mugshot.

The info itself will actually be far easier for me to update now. It was a pain before because I had to write it all down on paper or tab out every time I wanted to see where an avatar was located or how old a child was. Since last month I have gotten a new laptop and a wireless network at home, so I can post from that while still keeping the gaming running on my desktop: much faster. If someone could take care of the mugshots, I would be a very happy bovine. :yes:

Northnovas
10-11-2007, 19:59
I will take the avatar profiles then and have them accessible for downloading when need. :2thumbsup:

TinCow
10-11-2007, 20:39
I would just like to point out that next turn (1320) will be the 120th turn of the game. That is exactly the number of turns that WOTS lasted before the Civil War. As such, when the cataclysm is over, KOTR will officially have exceeded WOTS in in-game length, as well as real-time length (which I believe we passed some time ago).