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Dwimmerlaik
11-15-2000, 04:56
To be able to withdraw and reform troops in the heat of combat? I've just been on pbs.org and playing around with their Waterloo simulator and the ability to withdraw and reform troops is crucial to combat on both large and small scales...don't you think this should be implemented in STW?

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To be happy it is necessary not to be too intelligent
- Flaubert-

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The Black Ship
11-15-2000, 05:17
Especially for Cavalry this is a must! Thrust and regroup, thrust and regroup.

For true melee types like NDs or WMs I don't think so, turning your backside to the enemy was never a good idea

Widda
11-15-2000, 05:34
We're talking about the option to perform a fighting withdrawal. Which would only break off contact if your opponents units are set to Hold Position. Other uses for this ability is to draw Inf into position for flanking and encirlement. This is a nice tactical maneouver and I'd love to see it in the game as Cav would be good at it with faster move rates should be able to disengage by dropping back rank by rank until clear. Much like the archer units skirmish... Widda.

Dwimmerlaik
11-15-2000, 05:55
Widdahas it exactly, even for units like ND or WM this would be very useful especially for enticing enemy units to overextend at which point they can be crushed. I think this option would make cavalry much more useful in the game as a whole as they can be deployed more than once in the game rather than just the one time at the present..once they're in they are in.

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To be happy it is necessary not to be too intelligent
- Flaubert-

http://cgi.tripod.com/smilecwm/cgi-bin/s/ff4summon/indra.gif

Rob
11-15-2000, 06:50
Yes, this would be very useful. At the moment the main problem with cavalry is that they are flanked way too easily. Yari Samurai have a very easy time of dealing with cavalry in my experience. I have yet to see an opponent who can make effective use of cavalry against me, since I tend to take large numbers of Yari Sam into most battles.

solypsist
11-15-2000, 07:26
rob: hmm..i think ive won against you before....robhojo? or something like that. yes, my cav archers did very nicely in that one.....

DragonCat
11-15-2000, 11:39
I am in total agreement. Though I have been having some success lately with cavalry feints and cavalry charges.

I can't tell you how many routs I have precipitated by charging with my cavalry archers once the battle lines were fixed.

As to feints, its all in the timing and in having your cav set to hold formation. it is tricky though.



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DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."

solypsist
11-15-2000, 13:22
I think the whole cavalry thrust/parry technique takes a bit of practice. I've been trying it out and have better degrees of success each time. The deepness of ranks in cav has a lot to do with how fast they can pull a 180.

BanzaiZAP
11-16-2000, 01:45
Am I correct in understanding that many of you DON'T fallback and reform units???? Geez, I gotta get a good connection and play online! It's critical to reform! Partly because a disorganized unit gets morale penalties, and units get tired very quickly if they don't get a chance to rest. Not to mention getting a brand new charging bonus!

An example with two units - one Yari Sam, one No-Dachi. ND is set to Engage, and YS is on Hold Formation. ND charge in and start hacking away, but are being pulled down. YS charge in and hold a line, while the ND get selected, then redrawn as a smaller rectangle behind friendly lines. The YS protect the ND's backs, and keep the enemy fighting in one place. Your ND can now catch their breath (which does count for a lot!) and either charge back in, or move to flank.

Works for me in most situations, even uphill battles. Obviously, you will have to customize this depending on the situation you find yourself in.
Have fun!

-- B)

DragonCat
11-16-2000, 03:18
Hmmm, I'm going to have to test this in some friendly competitions. Some foreseeable issues 1) its hard to pull a unit out of battle once in - perhaps hold formation will help with this but it raises other issues
2) are you sure when they turn their backs to withdraw and reform that they don't get a negative morale modifier - if they do, then it is suicide.

What DOES happen a lot is that individual units rout and as long as they are not pursued they can be rallied and sent back into the fray. I think my record is rallying the same unit over 7 times (lost count eventually).

And then there are those general routs - once they are all routing you get the SAD music and your battle is over. . . .



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DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."

Rob
11-16-2000, 03:38
soly: ok you may have beaten me using cav archers, but I win most of my battles and I certainly get than instinctive good feeling about a battle when I see the enemy has a lot of cav http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Cavalry Archers are the one unit I have problems with, unless I have muskets of course. One tactic I see a lot of is bringing the Cav Archers in later in the battle, once my Samurai Archers have shot all their arrows. Then I have no way to fight back against them.

I used to use Yari Cav on Totomi quite a bit when I first started. My tactic was this:

Main army (YS,WM,Musks or SA) sat in the middle, with units of Yari Cav out wide on the flanks. I would march the YC almost along the edge of the map, until they were behind the enemy. If he chases them I pull them back and try again. Amusingly, people often tried to chase the Yari Cav with Heavy Cav, a futile exercise that only tires the Heavy Cav http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif . Often I would group the two Yari Cav together and charge into the back of the enemy once he was engaged.

I don't use YC anymore, they cost too much and have been replaced by No-Dachi as my flanking unit of choice.