Fanatic’s First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod

[TWFanatic]

The Phalanx/Aquilifer Mod Patch 1.2 Compatible

My Christmas gift to the EB Community.

In case you are wondering why elephants and chariots are mentioned in the title, this is because they used to be bugged. They were fixed in 1.1 though and so I have minimized the area of modification to the phalanx units. There is also an Aquilifer mod if you want Aquilifers for your first cohorts.

I will give the download links immediately for those of you who don’t want to bother trudging through all that text. Both are savegame compatible.

Download the Phalanx Mod here:
http://files.filefront.com/Phalanx+Mod+v12zip/;12664704;/fileinfo.html

Download the Aquilifer Mod here:
http://files.filefront.com/Eagle+bearer+Aquilifer+ofszip/;9992465;/fileinfo.html

To install the Phalanx Mod, simply extract into the folder you have installed EB into (it is probably called Rome: Total War unless you have changed it). DO NOT extract into your EB mod folder (which is contained inside your Rome: Total War folder). Directions on how to install the Aquilifer Mod are included at the bottom of this post. You may want to back up your export_descr_unit files in case you decide you want to revert back to vanilla. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. I'm here to help.

To avoid confusion, here is a brief overview of terms I use:
Macedonian phalanx - Any unit with the “phalanx” special ability uses what I term the Macedonian phalanx.
Classical or Hoplite phalanx - Any unit that fights in the hoplite-style phalanx. These units are easily recognizable by name or description. The hoplite phalanx is a tightly packed formation with overlapping shields and spears protruding from above, an impenetrable wall of bronze, iron and oak, an implacable force made seemingly not of individuals but a single inexorable contraption, an…OK you get the idea, I’ll stop.

NOTE: Despite that last comment, I am not a phalanx fan boy. Phalanx units—particularly Macedonian phalanxes—are not necessarily improved with this mod. And I like the Celtic factions best if that means anything…

NOTE # 2: Guard mode is no longer necessary! You do not need it. You fight better without it and can still keep a cohesive formation. Also, you no longer need to stand still and receive a charge. Hoplites now deliver a crushing charge and will maintain formation while (and after) doing so. Thanks to Barrabas for pointing this out.

Here is a brief overview of the changes made in the Phalanx Mod (Scroll down to see the Aquilifer and how to install it.):

-to Macedonian phalanxes: -.03 spear lethality, -1 sword attack, -2 armor, + 2 defense skill; given spear attribute (light_spear attribute removed).
What this means: Although Macedonian phalanxes maintain their attack ratings, decreased lethality causes their hits to knock opponents down more frequently (rather than kill). The decrease in armor is made up for in head on contests (when unit is in phalanx) by the increase in skill, which effects melee defense from the front and left (shield) sides; armor effects missile and melee defense from all sides. Thus, Macedonian phalanxes are now more vulnerable to missiles fired from any direction, but particularly at their exposed rear and flanks. They are also more vulnerable to flanking attacks. The spear attribute makes them push more and harder (something phalanxes were very good at). The downside to this attribute is that it can make units push so hard that their formation loses cohesion.

-to Classical (Hoplite) phalanxes: -.02 spear lethality, -2 armor, + 2 shield defense, +3 charge bonus; given short_pike attribute; given spear attribute (light_spear attribute removed).
What this means: See Macedonian phalanxes. The changes are similar except that hoplites receive an increase in shield defense rather than defense skill. This is because hoplite phalanxes in EB do not use phalanx, and thus are not nearly as resistant to missiles from the front and left side as are the Macedonian variety, whose shield defense is doubled when in phalanx.
Hoplites too get a reduction in lethality so as to better reflect hoplite warfare. Casualties were generally few until one formation or another broke from the extreme force of the pressing phalanx--that was when the real killing began. The spear attribute makes them push more and harder (something hoplites were very good at). The downside to this attribute is that it can make units push so hard that they break formation. In combination with a cohesive formation trait such as the short_pike attribute, however, they maintain formation and the ability to push hard.
The biggest change here is indeed the short_pike attribute. This does a number of things. First, it shrinks their spears from approximately twelve feet in length to nine. Twelve feet is simply inaccurately long for classical hoplites or Spartiates.
The other effects I will show below with screen shots.

BEFORE:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/FunnyVids/before1.jpg
They march with the tops of their spears magically dragging beneath the ground and their butt spikes in the air.
AFTER:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/FunnyVids/after1.jpg
They march with spears held level and pointed forward.

BEFORE:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/FunnyVids/before2.jpg
They break formation and charge like unorganized rabble.
AFTER:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/FunnyVids/after2.jpg
They stay in a tight, orderly formation and slam into the enemy as one - an invincible, unstoppable phalanx.

BEFORE:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/FunnyVids/before3.jpg
They fight like barbarians, individuals fighting for personal glory with no resemblance of a formation.
AFTER:
https://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p107/FunnyVids/after3.jpg
They fight like, well, a phalanx! A single, implacable body pushing the enemy backwards with great force until they finally break and run.

Here is the Aquilifer. Screenshot taken by hooahguy.
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/hooahguy14/newaqulaifier.jpg

Here is a “How To” guide on installation:

This is for those of you who want to have eagle bearers in your first cohorts.

First things first, remember to work in your RTW/EB/Data folder, not your RTW/Data folder. RTW/Data has vanilla RTW's files in it, RTW/EB/Data has EB's files in it.

For those of you who play on ALEX.exe, you may not have to remove a unit in order to add this Aquilifer (but I don't know for sure, I don't have it myself). The rest of you probably have to. So the first step is to entirely remove the unit of your choice from your game. I chose praetorian cavalry since they are heavily bugged in my game and make black lines flash all over my screen (some people have this problem, you may not). To do this, you must remove all text entries related to that unit from all of the following files:
export_descr_unit, export_descr_buildings, export_text, descr_model_battle, and descr_strat. There will only be text for this unit in the descr_strat file if the unit is there at the start of the campaign, because (as you modders know) the descr_strat file deals only with the campaign. So, for example, there are entries for hastati in descr_strat, but there are not entries for praetorian cavalry (the latter doesn't appear until the Augustan reforms).

How do you remove text? It's quite simple. You will find a block of text for that particular unit with a blank line before it and a blank line after it. Simply delete this block of text. The exceptions are the descr_model_battle and descr_strat files, which have single lines for a unit (often repeated over and over again). You will need to use cntrl+f in order to search for the particular unit you want to remove.

Once that's finished, it's time to add the Aquilifer. Here's how:

First, place the CAS file provided into your models_unit folder. Then, place the TGA and DDS files your textures folder, which is located inside of your models_unit folder.

Now, open your descr_model_battle file. Copy and paste this follow block of text anywhere in the file, but be sure to leave a line before and after it so it is clearly separated from the other entries.

type roman_eagle
skeleton fs_standard_bearer
indiv_range 40
texture seleucid, eb/data/models_unit/textures/SPQR_OFFICER_JULII_STANDARD_AQUILIFIER_LATE.TGA
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 8
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 15
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 30
model_flexi_m eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, 40
model_flexi eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas, max
model_sprite seleucid, 60.0, eb/data/sprites/officers/ebsprite_officer_all.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5

I highly recommended installing my phalanx mod (if you want it) prior to doing this next step. If you wait till after doing this next step to install it, then your files will be overwritten and your work made obsolete.

Lastly, open your export_descr_unit file. Press cntrl-f and search for your first cohort units. The dictionary entries are "roman infantry first legionary cohort i" and "roman infantry first legionary cohort ii". The former is for the post-marian first cohort, the latter for the imperial first cohort.

You will see that each unit has two officers, a centurion and a standard bearer. Below all the other officers, copy and paste the below line of text on its own line:

officer roman_eagle

It should look like this (you can just copy and paste these over your own entries if you want):

;524
type roman infantry first legionary cohort i
dictionary roman_infantry_legionary_first_cohort_i ; First Cohort
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_cohorsreformata, 50, 0, 1.2
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
officer roman_eagle
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, command, legionary_name
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 4, pilum, 36.8, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 10, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 15, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1914, 479, 100, 160, 1914
ownership seleucid


;242
type roman infantry legionary cohort ii
dictionary roman_infantry_legionary_cohort_ii ; Cohortes Imperatoria
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_cohorsimperatoria_evocata, 50, 0, 1.18
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_standard
officer roman_eagle
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, hardy
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 4, 4, pilum, 35, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 8, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 14, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1790, 448, 100, 160, 1790
ownership seleucid, slave

;525
type roman infantry first legionary cohort ii
dictionary roman_infantry_legionary_first_cohort_ii ; Cohortes Imperatoria
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_cohorsimperatoria_evocata, 50, 0, 1.2
officer ebofficer_roman_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_standard
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap, very_hardy, command, legionary_name
formation 1, 2, 2, 3, 5, square, testudo
stat_health 1, 1
stat_pri 5, 4, pilum, 36.8, 2, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 15 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 11, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 0 ,0.13
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 10, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -2, -2
stat_mental 15, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1914, 479, 100, 160, 1914
ownership Seleucid

Remember to make these changes to both your multiplayer and singleplayer export_descr_unit files!

Credit for this beautiful Aquilifer goes to lt1956, creator of the SPQR mod!

[Barrabas]

Thanks a lot, I'll try it out the 'chocolate' straight away!

[madmatg]

so after 30 days should we uninstall or send in money to get the activaton code?
im such a nerd
btw im doin chocolate fo sho

[Barrabas]

Hi!

I think I found a bug. After installing chocolate, I loaded up the custom_edu for some custom battle aquilifier action. However, as I load the battle the game crashes. I get the following info:

model database failed to load model eb/data/models_unit/unit_trigger_aquilifier.cas

Looking through the folder, there is no such .cas file. I think you might have forgotten to ad the .cas file to the 'eb/data/models_unit/' folder in the installer.

Or maybe I fucked something up when installing.... :)

[madmatg]

im also getting an error when i try to start a new campaign with KH, it says in descr_regions.txt at line 23 column 67
unrecognized: 'city' as a region resource class

im just gonna dl MAA city mod from his thread and replace that regions file

[Warmaster Horus]

Thanks! I presume it's not save-game compatible? Will I have to drop my 231BC Romani campaign to play this?

[TWFanatic]

It should be save game compatible unless you currently have praetorian cavalry in your campaign. I know it's working with my campaign.

@Barrabas: Woah! Very sorry, I forgot to include the model file. I'll fix this then upload the fixed version ASAP. You can just extract the fixed version over the old, bugged version.

EDIT: Done!

@madmatg: I didn't touch the descr_regions file. Any problems there should have nothing to do with this mod.

[Zarax]

Be careful with the short pike phalanx, in my tests I found it too vulnerable to frontal cavalry charges, almost as if infantry had no mass.

[Barrabas]

Great, they are working fine now.

Very nice aquilifier! Impressive details (like face, for example).

Oh, I almost forgot. Are the First Cohorts 'nameable' in campaign, as MarcusAureliusAntoninus's are (I'm referring to his AAR). And if so, how do you rename them? Just like you would a city?

[TWFanatic]

Be careful with the short pike phalanx, in my tests I found it too vulnerable to frontal cavalry charges, almost as if infantry had no mass.
Hmm, in my tests hoplites were almost invulnerable from the front to everything except for Macedonian phalanxes (which are still superior to hoplites head-on), other hoplites and a few, highly elite units. Perhaps this is because of the raised shield defense.


Great, they are working fine now.

Very nice aquilifier! Impressive details (like face, for example).

Oh, I almost forgot. Are the First Cohorts 'nameable' in campaign, as MarcusAureliusAntoninus's are (I'm referring to his AAR). And if so, how do you rename them? Just like you would a city?
They are not, because unfortunately I do not know how to make them nameable. I will scavenge the scriptorium for tutorials when I get home from work. Hopefully I'll learn how.

[madmatg]

thank ya sir, i'll have to figure out what the problem is with that

[Warmaster Horus]

Hmm... Nice! I'll try it out then. Thanks!

[Intranetusa]

I have a problem with the hoplites...I've downloaded and installed chocolate version, but the hoplites still use the old method of holding their spears. I don't see the difference between how they hold their spears...am I suppose to change a certain aspect of the edu?

[TWFanatic]

Look at before and after screen shots. Are your hoplites marching and fighting like those in the after screen shots? If so, the mod is working. And there is no reason it shouldn't...

Please note, however, that Massilian hoplites cannot use the short_pike attribute because they have two weapons (spear and longsword).

[Mr Durian]

Hey fanatic, I have trouble installing the files. When I try extracting the data folder i get this message;

! C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip: Cannot open C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip
! The system cannot find the file specified.


I'm a novice here, do you mind giving a step by step guide to installin this?









EDIT: Another thing, when I extract the folder nothing gets replaced.

[Olaf The Great]

So, wait is the "short pike" Phalanxes "Phalanxes"(RTW wise) or do they just look like it?


And if they're not phalanxes why add the spear attribute?

I heard that severely messes up stats.

[Intranetusa]

Look at before and after screen shots. Are your hoplites marching and fighting like those in the after screen shots? If so, the mod is working. And there is no reason it shouldn't...

Please note, however, that Massilian hoplites cannot use the short_pike attribute because they have two weapons (spear and longsword).

Yeh, I've installed the chocolate full mods and the hoplites still fight like an unorganized rabble. :/

[mcantu]

Look at before and after screen shots. Are your hoplites marching and fighting like those in the after screen shots? If so, the mod is working. And there is no reason it shouldn't...

Please note, however, that Massilian hoplites cannot use the short_pike attribute because they have two weapons (spear and longsword).

short_pike can be added as an attribute to the spear. shouldnt make a difference if there is a sword as well...

[mcantu]

So, wait is the "short pike" Phalanxes "Phalanxes"(RTW wise) or do they just look like it?


And if they're not phalanxes why add the spear attribute?

I heard that severely messes up stats.


short_pike does not add the phalanx formation

[TWFanatic]

Hey fanatic, I have trouble installing the files. When I try extracting the data folder i get this message;

! C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip: Cannot open C:\Documents and Settings\Johnny Sum\Local Settings\Temp\Rar$DI28.735\'Chocolate' First Cohort, Phalanx, Elephant and Chariot minimod.zip
! The system cannot find the file specified.


I'm a novice here, do you mind giving a step by step guide to installin this?


EDIT: Another thing, when I extract the folder nothing gets replaced.
:inquisitive:
That's very odd. I'll edit the topic post and insert a brief installation tutorial for those who need it.

EDIT: done.


short_pike can be added as an attribute to the spear. shouldnt make a difference if there is a sword as well...
Try it yourself. Trust me, it doesn't work - I spent an hour trying to make it work and failed.:smash:


Yeh, I've installed the chocolate full mods and the hoplites still fight like an unorganized rabble. :/
Read the installation tutorial and re-install. You must have done something wrong.


So, wait is the "short pike" Phalanxes "Phalanxes"(RTW wise) or do they just look like it?


And if they're not phalanxes why add the spear attribute?

I heard that severely messes up stats.
See the AFTER pictures. They fight in a similar manner as before (no Macedonian phalanx, overhand spears) except that they keep a cohesive formation and have a lot more push. The stats have also been changed, see the changes mentioned for hoplites in the title post. The spear attribute gives them far more push. And no, it does not mess up their stats.

Please read the title post. All I did above was basically restate what was already said there.

[Intranetusa]

:inquisitive:


Read the installation tutorial and re-install. You must have done something wrong.

.

I just extracted the zipped file, got an EB folder, and just transfered the chocolate version into my main EB folder... :/

I pretty sure I installed everything correctly

[TWFanatic]

I just extracted the zipped file, got an EB folder, and just transfered the chocolate version into my main EB folder... :/

I pretty sure I installed everything correctly
And it still doesn't work? If so, I don't know what to say...other than that the problem is at your end. :shrug:

EDIT: Test with a few different hoplite units...there is a possibility that I could have skipped over one.

[Intranetusa]

And it still doesn't work? If so, I don't know what to say...other than that the problem is at your end. :shrug:

Well, I'm using the Camillan Roman Triaris, could that be a reason? (they don't have the short pike attribute?)

or is it because I installed BI & v1.6 but am playing on regular?

[Barrabas]

Intranetusa:
Are you using the defend/guard (D-button) mode on your units?

Also, I have learned something about naming legions.
Apparently BI allows for a new unit attribute in the EDU, 'legionary_name'. Then you have to edit some other files too, Zaknafien describes it briefly here (post #44):
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94117&page=2

I haven't tried it myself yet, but it seems doable. I looked in the original first cohort mod, and there are some clues as to what to change. I think Zaknafien has done a more advanced version of it though.

[TWFanatic]

I know nothing about BI, I don't even own it. But Camilan Triarii do have the short_pike attribute. They fight like any other hoplites.


Intranetusa:
Are you using the defend/guard (D-button) mode on your units?
Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, you no longer need guard mode (you should turn itoff). You may also charge your hoplites like any other unit.


Also, I have learned something about naming legions.
Apparently BI allows for a new unit attribute in the EDU, 'legionary_name'. Then you have to edit some other files too, Zaknafien describes it briefly here (post #44):
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...t=94117&page=2

I haven't tried it myself yet, but it seems doable. I looked in the original first cohort mod, and there are some clues as to what to change. I think Zaknafien has done a more advanced version of it though.
Ty, good find. I'll look into this when I get home from work.:2thumbsup:

[Warmaster Horus]

Check these pages out:
-http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=38495&highlight=Numbered+First+cohorts&page=2
-http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=84381&highlight=First+cohorts
I tried to find how to do it like Cunctator did: numbering the legions I to infinity. Unfortunately, at the point where I am now, all I get is "Legion".
Maybe actually asking them might yield more results?
Anyway, fantastic mod!

[Intranetusa]

I know nothing about BI, I don't even own it. But Camilan Triarii do have the short_pike attribute. They fight like any other hoplites.


Thanks for pointing this out. Yes, you no longer need guard mode (you should turn itoff). You may also charge your hoplites like any other unit.


Ty, good find. I'll look into this when I get home from work.:2thumbsup:

Ok, thanks a lot. Fixed the problem :)

[Mr Durian]

I know nothing about BI, I don't even own it.


Could this be the reason why the mod wont install, because I have BI installed?

[Charge]

You need to extract 'Chocolate' archive, and copy 'EB' folder from it to your RTW main folder (with exe).

[TWFanatic]

Charge has sent me Imperial First Cohort unit cards (thank you!). If you downloaded this mod prior to 00:30 GMT November second, you did not get it. You can download it in the title post as a seperate download (so it's quick).


Ok, thanks a lot. Fixed the problem :)
Great!

[icydawgfish]

Is this compatable w/the city mod? I assume it would be, but I'm just double checking.

[TWFanatic]

Is this compatable w/the city mod? I assume it would be, but I'm just double checking.
No, because both have different EDB files. I suppose it would be simple enough to edit that file then upload it though...
Atm, the city mod's download link is broken. When it's fixed, I'll download it, edit it, then upload a second EDB file for people who want to use both the city mod and this mod.

As for the "naming legions" ability, I'll try to make that work as soon as I get my home computer (which has all my gaming stuff on it) back from the shop.

[Intranetusa]

Great!

Crap, I was looking at a sarrissa phalanx and not the classical phalanx...I still have that problem with hoplites even with defend turned off...>.<

[TWFanatic]

I'm very sorry, but there's nothing I can do. This mod is working for me and everyone else, so I can only assume that you made some mistake during the installation. I hope you can fix it, but if not, perhaps you could just uninstall. Good luck!

[Charge]

@Intranetusa
Check EDU entry for that unit and ensure it have
stat_pri_attr ........... light_spear, short_pike
attribute. If not -> files not overwriten..

camillan triarii

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear, short_pike
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 11, 9, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid, slave
before:

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 9, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid

[Intranetusa]

@Intranetusa
Check EDU entry for that unit and ensure it have
stat_pri_attr ........... light_spear, short_pike
attribute. If not -> files not overwriten..

camillan triarii

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 10, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear, short_pike
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 11, 9, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid, slave
before:

type roman infantry triarii early
dictionary roman_infantry_triarii_early ; Triarii
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_triariiearly, 40, 0, 1.22
officer ebofficer_roman_early_centurion
officer ebofficer_roman_early_standard
mount_effect elephant -1
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 0.9, 1.1, 2, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 15, 8, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.13
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 ,0.1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 12, 9, 4, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 0, 0, -3, -2
stat_mental 13, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 2268, 567, 50, 697, 2268
ownership seleucid

Yeh, that's exactly what I have...weird. Maybe I need to start a new game :/


No problem TWfanatic, I'll work it out somehow.

[Intranetusa]

I just realized I named my EB folder incorrectly and have been playing with another version of EB copied into my vanilla RTW folder...silly me.

Problem fixed, thxs ppl

[TWFanatic]

Yay!:beam:

So, is everyone enjoying this mod? Anything that needs to be improved upon? Elephants or chariots too weak or powerful?

[LusitanianWolf]

I have downloaded it and played an while:
The new hoplite formation is so cool!!!!
And now AI elephants and chariots arent useless anymore while still being beatable even with i'm playing with them. Balance :thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
And I still have to try teh 1st coorts and the aquilifer and play more.

Thanks TWF and everyone that helped in this mod!!!!!!! :balloon2: :balloon2: :balloon2:

[Marcus Publius]

Very nice mini mod:yes: and i hope you will make it compatable with city mod

[Mr Durian]

Yay!:beam:

So, is everyone enjoying this mod? Anything that needs to be improved upon? Elephants or chariots too weak or powerful?


Hey thanks for the mod. Its working for me now and its fantastic. I love how the hoplites fight in compact tight formation
https://img401.imageshack.us/img401/9947/libypheonicianxu0.th.jpg (https://img401.imageshack.us/my.php?image=libypheonicianxu0.jpg)

But I also noticed (but this could be just me) the result is they are a bit over strengthened. Have they been given severe penalties when flanked. I realized they are still deadly even when sandwiched by several units, which makes me think that since they are now more tightly formed it would be difficult to use those long spears when flanked.

Another thing I noticed is that some of them attack with their spears pointing in the sky but thats not really important.

Cheers for the mod :2thumbsup:

[Admetos]

Seeing as I'm so lazy and don't want to wait for a version compatible with the City Mod, I take it just copying the Roman MIC section from the First Cohort edb over the Roman MIC section in the City Mod edb would make them compatible?

[Spoofa]

you would lose the entire take away pop growth from some buildings and add law boni to others and such.

but sure.


@TWFanatic, your mod looks interesting now that ive seen that SS That mr.durian posted, I might try it once u get a citymod compatible version.

[Admetos]

You mean Roman MICs give population growth and law bonuses?

[Charge]

@Admetos
Find any First cohorts' recruitment lines in it's edb and past in the same places in city mod's. All should be working..


recruit "roman infantry legionary first cohort i" 0 requires factions { seleucid, } and hidden_resource SW and hidden_resource B and hidden_resource y1 and hidden_resource y2 and hidden_resource y4 and hidden_resource n8

EDIT: eh, also praetorian cavalry entry should be removed..

[TWFanatic]

But I also noticed (but this could be just me) the result is they are a bit over strengthened. Have they been given severe penalties when flanked. I realized they are still deadly even when sandwiched by several units, which makes me think that since they are now more tightly formed it would be difficult to use those long spears when flanked.
Head on, they are slightly better now thanks to shield stat (but this bonus is kept in check by lower armor and attack). When flanked (particularly by cavalry), they fight slightly worse than before. They are also slightly more vulnerable to missiles in the rear. These are my conclusions, taken from many tests.


Another thing I noticed is that some of them attack with their spears pointing in the sky but that’s not really important.
Yes, the rear ranks now point their spears upwards rather than stabbing their mates in the back. The occasional odd hoplite attacking with his spear in that manner is the price you must pay for the short_pike attribute. There is nothing I can do about it. Fortunately, they rarely do this unless flanked (and the rear ranks turn around to fight).

EDB file for those with city mod has been uploaded - check first post.

And thanks for helping Charge. :)

[TWFanatic]

I made the mistake of uploading the City Mod Compatible EDB file without testing it first. I forgot to remove praetorian cavalry entery, as Charge mentions. But it's fixed now.

[lobf]

Well, I'm using the Camillan Roman Triaris, could that be a reason? (they don't have the short pike attribute?)

or is it because I installed BI & v1.6 but am playing on regular?

If you installed 1.6 and BI but aren't playing with BI, that could be your problem...

[Darth Stalin]

Hey, TWFanatic!
I've made a quick recheck of Your mod (well, set Roman Reforms to happen muuuch quicker :D ) and noticed that Imperial First Cohort is recruitable ONLY in Rome (just like Praetorian Cohort). Is that intentional or there's something wrong with EDU file?

[TWFanatic]

Hey, TWFanatic!
I've made a quick recheck of Your mod (well, set Roman Reforms to happen muuuch quicker :D ) and noticed that Imperial First Cohort is recruitable ONLY in Rome (just like Praetorian Cohort). Is that intentional or there's something wrong with EDU file?
It is intentional. It's been that way with vanilla RTW and every single mod I've ever seen (including Cucnator's first cohort mod, so I assume it'll be like that in the next EB patch when they add first cohorts). The Eagles are made in Rome.

[Patriote]

Were any changes made to the Triarii?? both camillian and polybian

Thanks

[TWFanatic]

Camillan Triarii have received the same changes as all hoplites. Polybian Triarii haven't been touched.

[Intranetusa]

Been enjoying this mod :-)


I have two questions:

1. Are the Massilan Hoplites suppose to be in the hoplite formation? They have the word hoplite in their name but they don't have the short pike attribute.

2. How strong does the +3 shield bonus make the hoplites?
I just defeated 2 units of uber elite Gastarne naked infantry with 2 units of Camillian Triari Hoplites + 1 unit of principes.

Does this mean the hoplites' +3 shield bonus make them uber powerful? XD

[TWFanatic]

Been enjoying this mod :-)


I have two questions:

1. Are the Massilan Hoplites suppose to be in the hoplite formation? They have the word hoplite in their name but they don't have the short pike attribute.

2. How strong does the +3 shield bonus make the hoplites?
I just defeated 2 units of uber elite Gastarne naked infantry with 2 units of Camillian Triari Hoplites + 1 unit of principes.

Does this mean the hoplites' +3 shield bonus make them uber powerful? XD

1. Giving the short_pike attribute to units with two weapons (such as Massilian Hoplites) simply doesn't work. Try it to see why.:clown:

2. Quite strong - from the front in particular because of the shield bonus and new, tighter formation. Remember, though, they have a lower attack and armor rating. This means that they'll kill slower, though they are now even better "shock troops," and the best hoplites can break enemies with their charge (though this usually only happens against weaker militia or thin formations). But if you can stop their momentum and hold them, they're quite vulnerable to flanking. Spartans might fight even if they're surrounded and their formation is broken, but most hoplites will flee under these conditions. This is my experience, at least.

I almost forgot one more thing: Remember that the Gaestae have had their armor lowered from 5 to 3. So if you use the triarii to hold them and principes to go around to the rear and launch pila up their *ss, they have no chance (as long as they don't rout the triarii on the charge - they're excellent shock troops and heavy javelins can disorder formations).

[Leviathan DarklyCute]

I can't download this mod for some reason... can you plz upload the minimod again and the EDB file for city mod? on another site if you can?

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Thank you, TWFanatic. One of the biggest troubles with hoplites before was their lack of tactical organization, especially out of guard mode.

[TWFanatic]

I can't download this mod for some reason... can you plz upload the minimod again and the EDB file for city mod? on another site if you can?
That'd odd...I just tried the links and they are not dead. I'll upload second links though ASAP. EDIT: Done.

And ty for the kind words Basileos!

[Leviathan DarklyCute]

that works! thanks:2thumbsup:

[Intranetusa]

1. Giving the short_pike attribute to units with two weapons (such as Massilian Hoplites) simply doesn't work. Try it to see why.:clown:

2. Quite strong - from the front in particular because of the shield bonus and new, tighter formation. Remember, though, they have a lower attack and armor rating. This means that they'll kill slower, though they are now even better "shock troops," and the best hoplites can break enemies with their charge (though this usually only happens against weaker militia or thin formations). But if you can stop their momentum and hold them, they're quite vulnerable to flanking. Spartans might fight even if they're surrounded and their formation is broken, but most hoplites will flee under these conditions. This is my experience, at least.

I almost forgot one more thing: Remember that the Gaestae have had their armor lowered from 5 to 3. So if you use the triarii to hold them and principes to go around to the rear and launch pila up their *ss, they have no chance (as long as they don't rout the triarii on the charge - they're excellent shock troops and heavy javelins can disorder formations).


Aight thanks...but my 2 triaris and principes defeated the Gastae head on without flanking (it was a narrow street-cty battle) XD

Super non-Sarrissa Hoplites FTW!!!

[Basileus Seleukeia]

Are the permanent and optional Eb-Fixes already included in this mod?

[Darth Stalin]

Well, the Gaesatae now are a little more "normal", and even pila have some effect on them; yet my triarii seem to be real butchers - I first fought with some 90 Samnite light inf agains ~180 Ligurian light inf, took some casualties and withdrew; then came the Triarii (162 fresh guys) and Ligurians (some 150, maybe a little bit weary) attacked them head-on... triarii lost 2 men while killing the Ligurians to the last man, AFAIK...

[TWFanatic]

Phalanxes, due to shield bonuses, rarely take many casualties if fighting only at the front. They do, however, kill slower thanks to lower attack. As a result, you have more time to flank them. And they are more vulnerable to flanking now as well.

[TWFanatic]

*bump*

[cyberVIP]

hi TWFan
Will It be a part of EB1.1? Any chances?
Very interesting improvements IMHO.

[TWFanatic]

Indeed I will assuredly make similar adjustments to 1.1 (and post them here).

[Mykingdomforanos]

I get the following error with EB 1.0

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4127/errorew5.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Ive never seen a Praetorian cavalry as I havent fought Rome yet.

However I am using the Custom Edu Switcher thing , with this, your mod works in custom mode but not in campaign mode
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93589&highlight=custom+edu

Sorry Im a n00b to this stuff but appreciate the time and expertise of people like you.

... For the record my Drapanai falxmen smashed pretty much any Macedonian or Greek Phalanx but against Hoplitai with their shorter spears it was close.

Just like pre-mod the falxmen, Goidilic hammer guys, Cluddargos etc get gradually impaled on engagement and when they have lost about 20-50% of their men the phalanx lifts its spears and gets consequently owned in quick time.

[TWFanatic]

I get the following error with EB 1.0

https://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4127/errorew5.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Ive never seen a Praetorian cavalry as I havent fought Rome yet.

However I am using the Custom Edu Switcher thing , with this, your mod works in custom mode but not in campaign mode
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93589&highlight=custom+edu
This is odd because praetorian cavalry were removed. It shouldn't be asking for the DMB entery unless there was an EDU entery for the unit, which there isn't...unless you are accidentally using the old EDU. That is the only explination I can come up with.


Sorry Im a n00b to this stuff but appreciate the time and expertise of people like you.
We all were once. Thanks for the kind words


... For the record my Drapanai falxmen smashed pretty much any Macedonian or Greek Phalanx but against Hoplitai with their shorter spears it was close.

Just like pre-mod the falxmen, Goidilic hammer guys, Cluddargos etc get gradually impaled on engagement and when they have lost about 20-50% of their men the phalanx lifts its spears and gets consequently owned in quick time.
All two handed units are for flanking phalanxes. They are also good shock troops. In general, two handed units will give you serious casualties if they can get in close combat with your pikemen or break through the shield wall of your hoplites. They're the ultimate heavy infantry killers...but usually vulnerable to missiles do to their lack of shield. For that reason, I direct my missile fire on this strong but vulnerable units and attack them with light infantry.

[Darth Stalin]

@TWFanatic:
why the Praetorian cavalry was removed? (I suppose instead of that unit the First Cohort was added?)

Is there a free space to add the Praetorian Cav again? And how to do that? (what entries should be added/changed? I presume in both EDU and EDBuildings?)

[TWFanatic]

@TWFanatic:
why the Praetorian cavalry was removed? (I suppose instead of that unit the First Cohort was added?)

Is there a free space to add the Praetorian Cav again? And how to do that? (what entries should be added/changed? I presume in both EDU and EDBuildings?)
1. They were highly bugged.
2. To make space for the aquilifers.

If you want them back, you must eliminate the aquilifers.

[TWFanatic]

Taken from the first post:


I have added MiniMe's Temporary Pre-1.1 EDB alteration (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96175) to the chocolate version (vanilla still just has the changes mentioned for the Romans) and will continue to update the download every time MM makes a new release of his mod. In addition, I have fixed a small mistake I made in the EDU...let's just say that your hoplites will now have a lot more PUSH.
So you'll want to download my mod again. The chocolate version has the latest version of MM's mod.

Cheers to MM for being cooperative.

[pezhetairoi]

I can't seem to download the file, it tells me there's an error in connection etc, but I have no problems with downloading other stuff. Is there any alternative site I can get it from? Them Hoplites are sexy, and I want 'em.

[TWFanatic]

I can't seem to download the file, it tells me there's an error in connection etc, but I have no problems with downloading other stuff. Is there any alternative site I can get it from? Them Hoplites are sexy, and I want 'em.
I will upload them to a new mirror ASAP.

[pantsukki]

I had the same problem as Mykingdomforanos, apparently it happened to me after installing the apeleutheroi (sp?) fix. I got over it by installing the first cohort mod again.

[Morte66]

Do the hoplite changes apply to Carthage's Liby-Phoenician Infantry? They appear almost identical on the unit cards (1 point worse in snow). They're described as "phalanx soldiers" on the unit card, and their unmodded versions act like just the unmodded classical hoplites on the battlefield.

But I have zero historical knowledge here, I'm just figuring that they're meant to be hoplites with different armour cosmetics and a warmer native climate based on what's in the game.

[Hooahguy]

great job TWFanatic! i just downloaded and tested this minimod, and all i can say is, I LOVE IT!
i really like the new aquilifers!
(for those who havent seen them yet- here it is!
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/hooahguy14/newaqulaifier.jpg
(now whys my captain turned backwards?)

and here is the new hoplites, which i must say, fight much better!
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/hooahguy14/newformations.jpg

all in all, YOU DID AN AMAZING JOB! :applause:
kudos and a balloon :balloon2:

[TWFanatic]

Do the hoplite changes apply to Carthage's Liby-Phoenician Infantry? They appear almost identical on the unit cards (1 point worse in snow). They're described as "phalanx soldiers" on the unit card, and their unmodded versions act like just the unmoved classical hoplites on the battlefield.

But I have zero historical knowledge here, I'm just figuring that they're meant to be hoplites with different armour cosmetics and a warmer native climate based on what's in the game.
Those aspects are in no way modified. See the first post to see the changes made to hoplites. In summary,
1. They fight in a tight, cohesive formation (phalanx) instead of spreading out in a mob.
2. They have more push (as hoplites historically did).
3. The spears are slightly shorter (approx. 8 feet now which is a more accurate length).
4. Stat changes make them harder to break from the front but more vulnerable from the rear and flanks. They also kill slower. Again this done to better represent aspects of hoplite warfare.

@hooahguy:
Glad you like it!

[Darth Stalin]

So, TWfanatic, when I DL the latest available version of TW First Cohort Mod and install all the files there, I'll be able to continue my Romani campaign without any problems?
I installed FC mod and I'm currently playing with that mod, so I presume there will be no problem about save game compatibility?
Can anything happen if I DL and install the latest package of the FC Mod and then add to it the "FC compatible MM's EDB file"?

BTW: TWFanatic, did You add the MM's EDB to the latest FCMod download package?
In the FCMod package available from the link in the first post of the FC thread (the "EB_First_Cohort_Phalanx_Ed.zip") I can see in the "chocolate" version the EDB file with it's size of 12932740 bytes; however, the file with MM's EDB compatible with FC Mod (package named as "EDB_compatible_with_Fanatd.zip") has the size of 12847725 bytes.
Which file is correct one?

And is the "compatible file" intended to be used in "chocolate" or "vanilla" version of the FC Mod?

And BTW: does anybody know, whether the EB 1.1 will be save game compatible? And what will be changed?
I've played some 20 years of my fine Roman campaign and I'm wondering if there's sense to continue play it in case the new EB will be non-save game compatible; though there are some things that should be corrected, like the case of joining fleets together (now I can't do that...)

[TWFanatic]

So, TWfanatic, when I DL the latest available version of TW First Cohort Mod and install all the files there, I'll be able to continue my Romani campaign without any problems?
I installed FC mod and I'm currently playing with that mod, so I presume there will be no problem about save game compatibility?
Can anything happen if I DL and install the latest package of the FC Mod and then add to it the "FC compatible MM's EDB file"?

BTW: TWFanatic, did You add the MM's EDB to the latest FCMod download package?
In the FCMod package available from the link in the first post of the FC thread (the "EB_First_Cohort_Phalanx_Ed.zip") I can see in the "chocolate" version the EDB file with it's size of 12932740 bytes; however, the file with MM's EDB compatible with FC Mod (package named as "EDB_compatible_with_Fanatd.zip") has the size of 12847725 bytes.
Which file is correct one?

And is the "compatible file" intended to be used in "chocolate" or "vanilla" version of the FC Mod?

And BTW: does anybody know, whether the EB 1.1 will be save game compatible? And what will be changed?
I've played some 20 years of my fine Roman campaign and I'm wondering if there's sense to continue play it in case the new EB will be non-save game compatible; though there are some things that should be corrected, like the case of joining fleets together (now I can't do that...)
Just download and re-install the chocolate version, you'll want to anyways since I fixed a few bugs.

The EDB I posted in MM's thread which is compatible with this mod works with both versions. If you want to have the vanilla version with MM's mod, install the vanilla version then install the EDB I posted in MM's thread. So the compatible file is intended to be used in either chocolate or vanilla, but if you want chocolate, just re-download and re-install since I've included the compatible file in it and fixed some bugs.

And yes, this mod should be compatible with any campaign so long as you don't have praetorian cavalry in it. EB 1.1 will post likely not be compatible with your current campaign, as AFAIK no previous patch has been. You'd have to ask an EB member though to be sure. And regarding the fleets, that's hardcoded and there's nothing you can do about it.

Hope that helps.

[J.Alco]

This is just a quick Q., and I apologize in advance because it's a noob question, but here it is anyway: I never did try out the Karthadastim with this mod, but I know that it affects the Liby-Phoenician Infantry. What about the Libyan inf. and Poeni Citizen militia? Do the changes affect them too or are they exempt?

And yes, I AM having to re-install the mod. It's a long story but it involves a crashed computer and a re-installation of EB as well. Not a happy story to tell. :wall:

[Darth Stalin]

Thanks!
Well, I installed the Chocolate version and then started my current campaign. So I can reinstall Your mod, add MM's EDB and continue my campaign - huurah!r

[TWFanatic]

This is just a quick Q., and I apologize in advance because it's a noob question, but here it is anyway: I never did try out the Karthadastim with this mod, but I know that it affects the Liby-Phoenician Infantry. What about the Libyan inf. and Poeni Citizen militia? Do the changes affect them too or are they exempt?

And yes, I AM having to re-install the mod. It's a long story but it involves a crashed computer and a re-installation of EB as well. Not a happy story to tell. :wall:
Lol I've been there. I probably had to re-install Rome 3-4 times when I first started modding.

Yes, Liby-Phoenician Infantry and Poeni Citizen militia both fight in the Hoplite phalanx, so they both receive the same changes as all units who fight in that manner. However the Libyan Infantry which carry the javelins do not receive any changes.

[konny]

:2thumbsup:

Absolutly fantastic! The short_pike attribute gives us real Hoplites. Now there are a complete different unit to Thureophoroi and the like other overhand spearmen:

https://img413.imageshack.us/img413/2897/phalanxtn6.th.jpg (https://img413.imageshack.us/my.php?image=phalanxtn6.jpg)

I had charged them into the Thureophoroi. It looked like that unit had swallowded the Hoplites because the Hoplites kept the close formation all the time while the Thureophoroi started to swarm around on contact. After a short time the Thureophoroi had completly surounded the Hoplites. But these neither mixed with the enemy (before, with guard mode off) nor did they all face stupidly in one direction (before, with guard mode on), but behaved as one would expect from a unit of that kind: formed a tight circle around the general and defended in all direction without losing cohesion.

You have really added a new kind of unit to EB. Thank you very much!

[pezhetairoi]

I could not agree more. The phalanx mod is the single best thing that has happened to my EB! I love the way the new hoplitai work! I haven't seen any first cohorts around or elephants, so I shan't comment on those. I still feel 242 Marian troops, armed to the teeth and heavily armoured, is pretty overpowered, though. But hey. The Romani NEVER survive long enough to reach the Marians unless they are me, so I'm not complaining. XD

[Hooahguy]

@Konny:
wow- ive never seen a hoplite unit, or any other unit for that matter, go into a circle like that. was that by chance or a new part of this minimod?

[konny]

That's the result of the short_pike attribute: They stayed together all the time, even made a real 'about face' with most the last rank when the first Thureophoroi appeard behind them. Due to their mass they were pushing the Thureos in all directions but without opening their formation, what let to the circle.

[Hooahguy]

ah. thats cool! i never used the new hoplites in a battle where theyve benn surrounded.

[TWFanatic]

Glad you all like them so much. I myself was shocked at the drastic improvement the short_pike attribute delivered to hoplites. As Konny said, it distinguishes them from other overhand spear units. And as his screenshot showed, hoplites have a tendency to bull through the center of the enemy battle line (when not facing other phalanxes) and thus become enveloped. For this reason, it's best to keep hoplites in a single line with the flanks protected by lighter, faster, javelin-armed flankers such as Thureophoroi.

@pezhetairoi: The first cohort is armed identically to all other legionaries. The only differences is that their unit contains more men and has a +1 morale and defense skill increase since they are the best of the legion.

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
From what I have read this looks like a great remod. :yes: Thanks for it TWFanatic. Will install it shortly.

:medievalcheers:

I hope the EB team incorporate at least some of these in a future release. ~:)
.

[MiniMe]

hmmm...
I wonder, how these "short_pike" hoplites behave on the walls...

[Lgk]

imo short pikes are somewhat buggy

eg if unit has secondary weapons, it stops using pikes immediately upon contact with the enemy

i guess these are VERY short pikes :)

[konny]

eg if unit has secondary weapons, it stops using pikes immediately upon contact with the enemy

It is limited to the single weapon Hoplites and the like.


i guess these are VERY short pikes :)

Interessting, even without the modificated stats they kill less but hold longer with short_pikes. I think this recreates those specific units better.

[TWFanatic]

^Precisely.

Regarding the length: the spears are 8-9 feet long, which is the accurate length for hoplite overhand one-handed spears.

[IndianPrince]

Hey guys ... i installed this mod. But i dont think there have been any changes whatsoever on the game :(

Im sure i've installed it right as well. We shud install it in the EB folder right ?

Prince

[TWFanatic]

Install it into the same folder where you installed EB. Most likely, that's Program Files/Activision/Rome: Total War. You probably installed in Rome: Total War/EB.

[IndianPrince]

LOL ... Yeah :)

Thnx

p.s - is it save game compatible

Prince

[Hooahguy]

yes, it is save-game compatible.... at least for me it was

[IndianPrince]

Sweet .. it works !!! height of awesomeness :D

Prince

[TWFanatic]

Great! Go kick some ass.:smash:

[Xehh II]

I was wondering about the short pike and two-weapon hoplites, could you remove the sword from them leaving them just with a spear? Then the short pike would work wouldn't it?

[Ymarsakar]

TW, I was wondering what is the effect of adding the spear attribute to the primary weapons when short_pike already adds in a bonus of 8 against cavalry?

[TWFanatic]

@Xehh II: Yes.

@Ymarsakar: All EB spear-armed units have the "short_spear" attribute, which delivers a +4 bonus against cavalry and a penalty against infantry. I changed that to just "spear", which gives the unit a +8 bonus vs cavalry. Far more important to the accurate representation of hoplites is the fact that it gives the unit much more push. I've seen a unit of Spartiates drive an enemy infantry unit back a hundred feet before they finally broke and ran.

[Ymarsakar]

In your tests, did you find out whether short_pike gave out any attack or defense bonuses? And what kind of bonuses are we talking about, defensive or attack bonuses for spear and short_spear?

[TWFanatic]

Light_spear gives a default bonus of +8 to defense vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to defense vs infantry. It also offers less pushing power than spear. Spear gives a default bonus of +8 to attack vs cavalry, and penalty of -4 to attack vs infantry. It has more pushing power than light_spear. Short_pike grants a bonus of +8 versus mounted units, but due to the qualities of the formation (spacing, cohesion, etc) it seems that it roughly gets an extra -1 versus everyone.

[Ymarsakar]

Thanks

[Lord Of Ruin]

This may be a coincidence but after implementing this mini mod my slingers don't seem to be killing anyone, were they changed in any way because not only do they do almost no damage no its like they are bugged, they are unresponsive and only around half of them actually launch anything after a windup. Then are even attacking random targets, not the ones i tell them too attack and the original target never left range.

I may be crazy however just seeing if anyone else noticed strange sling-ish changes :dizzy2:

[TWFanatic]

This mod in no way effects slingers. EB 1.0 has decreased slinger stats though, perhaps you've just upgraded and are not used to the change.

Btw, ungroup units before attacking. Grouped units will attack the nearest enemy unit rather than the unit you tell them to attack. This includes missile units, when grouper they will fire on whoever is nearest even if you order them to fire on a different unit.

[Lord Of Ruin]

ok ill try that, maybe this is my first time using slingers since the patch or a just now noticed.

Thanks for the help :2thumbsup:

[Ymarsakar]

try turning fire at will off as well.

[TWFanatic]

I fail to see how that would help in this situation.:dizzy2:

[svramj]

This further improves EBs balance thanks TWfanatic

[Midnj]

1. Is there any way to make it so the rear rank hoplites turn their spears horizontal (as opposed to pointing upwards @ 45 degrees) when they thrust? It looks kind of weird to have them kill someone by poking the air above the man's head.

2. Is there any way to make the short_pike hoplites charge properly? Eg. if you do a custom battle with one of the short_pike hoplites vs anything else and just click on them to attack, they will approach, sort of charge, then stop right in front of the enemy thus negating any charge bonus.

I really like the concept of the changes to the hoplites but these are somewhat problematic. I've been experimenting trying to fix it but haven't had any luck so far.

3. Is the short_pike and spear bonus cumulative for +16 vs cavalry? Or does the short_pike override the spear bonus? In other words, if I were to remove just the short_pike part of the mod and keep the rest, would that negatively impact the unit balance?

Thanks!

[Lgk]

Short_pike goes to hell, i'd say. Everything it brings into gameplay is another assortment of bugs.

[konny]

2. Is there any way to make the short_pike hoplites charge properly? Eg. if you do a custom battle with one of the short_pike hoplites vs anything else and just click on them to attack, they will approach, sort of charge, then stop right in front of the enemy thus negating any charge bonus.

The charge bonus for infantry is so low that it won't do anything. At least I haven't seen anyone dying from an infantry charge. Even cavalry needs a 25+ bonus to do any notable damage with the charge.

[TWFanatic]

1. Is there any way to make it so the rear rank hoplites turn their spears horizontal (as opposed to pointing upwards @ 45 degrees) when they thrust? It looks kind of weird to have them kill someone by poking the air above the man's head.

2. Is there any way to make the short_pike hoplites charge properly? Eg. if you do a custom battle with one of the short_pike hoplites vs anything else and just click on them to attack, they will approach, sort of charge, then stop right in front of the enemy thus negating any charge bonus.

I really like the concept of the changes to the hoplites but these are somewhat problematic. I've been experimenting trying to fix it but haven't had any luck so far.

3. Is the short_pike and spear bonus cumulative for +16 vs cavalry? Or does the short_pike override the spear bonus? In other words, if I were to remove just the short_pike part of the mod and keep the rest, would that negatively impact the unit balance?

Thanks!

1. No. Short_pike has ups and downs, this is one of the downs. However, all things considered, the ups far outweigh the downs in many people's opinions. Don't be afraid to test this mod to see which you prefer--uninstallation is easy with the backup file.

2. All Infantry charge like that. I have increased the charge of all hoplite units, not that it even means anything though, for as Konny said infantry charges are worthless in RTW (meaning there's nothing EB can do about it).

3. The effects are not cumulative AFAIK. Btw, all spear-armed units in EB use short_spear. I changed this with hoplites to just spear (in addition to short_pike). Spear greatly increases a unit's pushing power.

[Midnj]

1. No. Short_pike has ups and downs, this is one of the downs. However, all things considered, the ups far outweigh the downs in many people's opinions. Don't be afraid to test this mod to see which you prefer--uninstallation is easy with the backup file.

2. All Infantry charge like that. I have increased the charge of all hoplite units, not that it even means anything though, for as Konny said infantry charges are worthless in RTW (meaning there's nothing EB can do about it).

3. The effects are not cumulative AFAIK. Btw, all spear-armed units in EB use short_spear. I changed this with hoplites to just spear (in addition to short_pike). Spear greatly increases a unit's pushing power.

Great, thanks!

Don't get me wrong I really like the fact that the hoplites stay together and can _actually_ break a line via pushing without either killing the entire unit in front of it or forcing them to rout. It adds a new tactical dimension to battles. In fact I probably won't take out the short_pike when I play a faction that relies on hoplites.

Did not know all infantry charge was screwed up and I guess it hindsight it really doesn't matter too much..

Thanks for the great mod!

[MrMerisi]

If I try to extract the archive to the EB folder in C:\...\Rome - Total War\EB, it asks me if I want to overwrite the existing folders.

So I have copied and pasted file by file into EB\Data.

Will that work?

edit: Thanks!

edit II: Looks like it is working. I am using the ALX.exe rather than RTW.exe. Do you know if there were any changes in Alexander that affected the way hoplites fight?

[TWFanatic]

I would assume not but I don't know for sure.

[TWFanatic]

*bump*:beam:

[MiniMe]

One more *bump* just to please ye :beam:

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
Suggestion: Use the custom sticky feature. Edit the first post with a reminder and link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?do=personalsticky&t=94341) for all to do so. ~;)

One more :bump:
.

[TWFanatic]

You mean I can sticky a thread without admin privileges?:dizzy2:

EDIT: Ah I see, so it's just stickied for me?

[Mouzafphaerre]

.

Ah I see, so it's just stickied for me?
:yes:
.

[Pezlu]

I just tried briefly the mod with the multiplayer EDU and I must say I'm impressed! Hoplites scare me now :fainting:

However, since I'm using ALX.exe which supports more models/units, I added Equites Praetoriani back; but you mentioned they are "highly bugged". I wanted to ask how, exactly, so I could correct the bugs (if possible, since I'm not a modder myself... I just play around a bit with the files) and still keep them.

I just tried them in a custom battle and I didn't notice anything obvious, but it' the first time I use them (still quite new to EB), so maybe the bug is clear but I didn't get the chance to notice it or I didn't pay enough attention.

Thanks in advance :2thumbsup:

[Darth Stalin]

Hey, SunShadow: that's good to hear that on ALX.exe the Praetorians can be brought back...

BTW:
what lines of code and where should be placed to get them back to business? (I mean, possibly in DMB, EDU and EDB files?)

[Pezlu]

I simply used WinMerge (http://winmerge.org/) (open source file compare tool, an excellent tool for "soft-modding" :yes: ) to compare EB files with TWFanatic's files, and copied back all the entries referring to praetorian cavalry

I also added the new rebellion fix to the EDB (it wasn't included in this minimod)

I don't remember exactly what I did, but basically you need to copy all the sections referring to praetorian cavalry in the following files:

--

In EB\Data:
descr_model_battle.txt
export_descr_buildings.txt
export_descr_sounds_units_voice.txt
export_descr_unit.txt

In EB\Data\text:
export_units.txt

--

If TWFanatic agrees, I could just upload my own version of his minimod

It's basically the same, but includes equites praetoriani and the latest version of the fix to export_descr_buildings.txt

I think it works only with ALX however, due to the praetorian cavalry... EB has already the maximum number of units and/or models for the standard RTW, AFAIK. Not tested with RTW.exe or BI.exe though.

--

Tested only a little with ALX.exe but no problems for now; campaign works, battles work too, and I've tried a custom battle with equites praetoriani, both first cohorts and a bunch of hoplites and makedonian phalanxes. It worked perfectly (and I'm amazed by the new "classical hoplite phalanx", waaaay more effective now) :2thumbsup:

[Darth Stalin]

Well, could You just put here the fragments of code referring to praetorian cavalry? I think I haven't saved my original EB files - I've installed First Cohost mod, then modded it a few times (with MiniMe's od etc.) and I'm afraid I have nothing to copy from... (though I may get wrong)

EDIT:
forget about that: I've just unzipped the EB installer and copied these files from it; I'll only have to find the time to dig into them...

[Pezlu]

If you use WinMerge or something similar it's very easy if you have the originals, just compare them and copy back the sections referring to preatorian cavalry; I really recommend it :yes:

I'd post the snippets of code, but the difficult thing to do in a forum is to write where they should be inserted; sometimes it's fine to add them at the end, but sometimes not... think of the EDB for example.

As I said, if TWFanatic agrees I can just upload it

--

@TWFanatic: one more question: why did you set the exact same stats for both first cohortes?

[TWFanatic]

If TWFanatic agrees, I could just upload my own version of his minimod
By all means, go ahead.


one more question: why did you set the exact same stats for both first cohortes?
Don't ask me, ask the EB team. Their pre-marian and post-marian cohorts both have the exact same stats. I merely followed their example.



I added Equites Praetoriani back; but you mentioned they are "highly bugged". I wanted to ask how, exactly, so I could correct the bugs (if possible, since I'm not a modder myself... I just play around a bit with the files) and still keep them.
For some people, they give CTD's. Or, if you're lucky, crazy flashing black lines all over the place that utterly ruin the game. Perhaps you're very lucky and have no problem at all? :shrug:

[Pezlu]

By all means, go ahead.

Thanks!

Here it is: http://www.mediafire.com/?2yjmtyjgdjg

If the download doesn't work, just reply and I'll add another

For installation, extract in RTW main folder (NOT eb subfolder), just like the original ;)

Note that I modified "chocolate" version only


Don't ask me, ask the EB team. Their pre-marian and post-marian cohorts both have the exact same stats. I merely followed their example.

Mmh... now that you mention it, I had noticed it a while ago.


For some people, they give CTD's. Or, if you're lucky, crazy flashing black lines all over the place that utterly ruin the game. Perhaps you're very lucky and have no problem at all? :shrug:

As I told you, I didn't use them much for now... maybe I've been lucky these few times

However, if they are SO buggy, I'd recommend everyone to try at least a custom battle with equites praetoriani before doing anything serious with my version of the mod... if they are buggy, better to stick with TWFanatic version even with ALX.exe :yes:

Do you know what happens if someone with "original" EB or my version of the mod already has equites praetoriani in the campaign THEN installs your version of the mod? It may be needed if they give CTDs, but wouldn't it give problems?

[TWFanatic]

It would CTD. As I said before, this mod is fully compatible with any campaign unless the campaign currently has equites praetoriani trained.

[Darth Stalin]

Well, maybe the problem is with model or textures?
I'll give it a try, yet I first backup my files and finish making some modding actions towards making my modded mod :D ALX-compatible. (well, I'm running EB with FC, MiniMe and my own changes on ALX right now, but as I moved it from BI to ALX in the middle of campaigbn, I haven't added Night Battles and Night Warrior traits; I'm gonna prepare that in case I'd like to play it againg in full on ALX before EB 1.1 appears on the scene...)
I'll try to replace original EB praetorian cav models/textures with those made by KingLouiseAssurbanipal for Roman cav (or sth similar) and see, what happens.
That could be an interseting thing... yet may be dangerous too. So I have to be backupped :D

[Pezlu]

Uh, thanks, probably I had just ovelooked it, since it wasn't my case :sweatdrop:

Yes, it seems to be a problem with models or textures; I don't think it would be dangerous to change them, but making a backup is always good... I think I'll go on with the current model until I get a CTD or something (but in that case I think I'll dismiss all equites praetoriani and just use TWFanatic original version of the minimod; I'm Romani after all)

[TWFanatic]

EB is hard to mod because it's so complex, but if you know what you're doing (and you backup) it's completely safe to change models or skins.

[ajdeignan]

Hi TWFanatic,

Does this mod incorporate the permanent fixes?

I had some problems tonight downloading the permanent fixes AFTER applying your mod (as I have been receiving CTD when towns rebelled).

One of the permanent fixes (rebel CTD fix) modifies 'export_desc_buildings' but when I tried to reload, my computer couldn't find praetorian cavalary in 'export_desc_units' as you have deleted them.

I re-ran your mod, which fixed the 'praetorian cav' error, but now I'm back to the stage of 'rebel CTD' errors.

Thanks in advance

PS. Love your mod!!!!!!

[TWFanatic]

It does not incorporate the fixes, but they are easy enough to install afterward if you want them.

[Danzifuge]

472!!! holy shit!!!

thats how many kills my elephants had on macedonian forces at the battle of pella 272 b.c. not one single casualty. accounting for approximately a 1/3 of the enemies number.

it was so insane, i held most of my army back just to watch (and not to get trampled on)

this may be a bit overpowered. i know they were weak before, but this is insane.

UPDATE: 556!!! siege of demetrias. that was over half the enemy forces. 6 casualties

[Decimus Attius Arbiter]

Something weird happened with the number of my towered forest elephants in custom. The unit card said 16 men. But the end battle scroll said I had 24 men. On the battle map, I counted 8 elephants. Aren't there supposed to be 12?

[Watchman]

Naw. Instead, there's one crewman too many - the tower can only hold one archer, but the unit's statted for two. (I'm guessing Fanatic didn't touch those numbers, and they're screwy that way in 1.0.)

[Biges]

I installed the mod and to my surprise, Celtic chariots are even more crappy, than they were before. Instead of defense 6, they now have 4. Is it OK?

[Josephus Maximus Soter]

i loved the mod, but it made my game so laggy! i mean, i have top of the line graphics and memory, and it made so slow. has anyone else had this issue? i really want to reinstall it but im afraid it will make the whole game worse!!:furious3:

[Biges]

i loved the mod, but it made my game so laggy! i mean, i have top of the line graphics and memory, and it made so slow. has anyone else had this issue? i really want to reinstall it but im afraid it will make the whole game worse!!:furious3:

I noticed no increased lag with this mod. Does it add new scripts or so?

[Intranetusa]

Is this compatible with Alex.exe? This mod was compatible with Bi.exe, but I'm not sure if the Alex files will overwrite these mod files.

[Red_Russian13]

I'm a moron. That much is clear. However, I downloaded and installed the mod, and now, mysteriously, all the homeland buildings have been replaced by II level gov't buildings...and they all are damaged.

What in the world did I do wrong?

Edit: I lied. Not all the homeland buildings were replaced. But all my gov't buildings were 100% damaged. In every province. I repaired them all and things seem to be fine other than that. I'm playing the Romani and I installed chocolate. However, I installed it in the RTW directory, then the EB folder. Perhaps that was my problem. I did this on accident. See first sentence.

[TWFanatic]

Wow, I've got a lot of weird stories on my hands here. I'll deal with them all one by one.

@Danzifuge: Elephants are still extremely vulnerable to javelins. Sadly the AI is incompetent when it comes to dealing with elephants. Heck, it's incompetent when it comes to dealing with anything, but it struggles with elephants in particular. If I made them any weaker, they'd be easier to deal with than fruit flies in the hands of the AI.

Btw, they are far weaker than they are in vanilla.

@Decimus Attius Arbiter: Perhaps you changed unit sizes. I don't see how else that could happen.

@Intranetusa: The simple answer is: I don't know. I don't see why not though.

@Biges regarding chariots: Chariots are far stronger now. Yes I reduced defense by two, but that is more than surpassed by the effect of the extra two hitpoints. This also better reflects the nature of chariots by maintaining their vulnerability when stagnant and when charged into phalanxes, but making them less vulnerable to missiles, cavalry, and loose infantry formations. They are also more capable when it comes to breaking through enemy formations. Thus, they are better than before where it counts.

@Biges and Josephus Maximus Soter regarding lag: This mod doesn't tough the script and does not in any way make your game perceptibly more laggy or increase loading times. There must be some other variable that you did not account for, such as adjusted graphics settings.

@Red_Russian13: That is...odd. I have no idea why that would happen, sorry.

[Red_Russian13]

No worries man. It seems to be running fine. No problems at all now.

[figulus]

Hey fanatic,
have installed your mod but haven't got first cohorts yet.
However I did modify my reforms so that i got marian's after 10 settlements
and have only got a level 3 mic in rome could this be why?

figulus

[Darth Stalin]

@Red_Russian13:
That strange thing has nothing to do with FCMod. This is rather a feature of EB mod and possibly of any other mod. It happens when you play a game, then quits current campaign and start another campaign with another faction or (more often) when you load saved game of a game played with other faction than before - WITHOUT QUITTING THE GAME AT ALL.

[Kravixon]

This mod is so ownage, I'm wondering if there are parts that could be appropriately applied to 1.1 before I install.

[Alexandros Maximus]

Yo dude you gotta make it so the phalanx mod can work with 1.1!!!

I installed 1.1 and now i miss my good ol' triarii phalanx.

[TWFanatic]

I will indeed have to. It's been chaos at work lately, but I'll fine time for good ol' EB modding sooner or later (hopefully sooner).

First I have to download EB 1.1.:clown:

[Darth Stalin]

Hey, TWFanatic - what should be altered/changes in "phalanx" units to make newest EB 1.1 units act as they did in Your mod for EB 1.0 (the "push" feature that allowed my Triarii to act so nice against those barbarians...)
Maybe it will be enough to change/replace sth in EDU unit descriptions for "phalanx" units... or maybe You have changed not only "classical phalanx" but also othe hoplite-style units?
Anyway, would it be lot of time to spend on working out that?

EDIT:
well, that may be not so hard anyway; using WinMerge to compare files can be really good and makes the whole process faster; IMHO the best solution would be to compare old EB 1.0 files with C mod, find changed units and then find these units in new EB 1.1.
It seems that units are grouped alphabetically, so there can even be possible direct comparison between FC and EB 1.1.
Anyway, changing unit stats can be now rather simple, though a little time-consuming.

Then I'll be able to make some of my own modifications I've planned to do for EB 1.0, with the grace of the fact that I'm running my EB on ALX.exe engine => increase number of models for units and make new units to use skins and models made by KLA.
First I'll add some new Roman units (new FCs with some wearing Lorica segmentata, ha! also some auxilia and cataphracts to be recruited for Imperial Reforms in Skythia and Syria/Assyria, if the player goes so deep into eastern/northeastern steppes, to cope with all these Pahlava/Sauromatyae/Sakae cataphracts...), then maybe some Greek units (hoplites for different cities).
I've also beenthinking why the Lucanian ligt infantry was not added to Roman unit roster? They seem to be the only Italian unit available as mercenary only, which is not so very much true...
Maybe I'll try to add them to Roman barracks native... or maybe Regional barracks of southern Italy?

[mlc82]

Yo dude you gotta make it so the phalanx mod can work with 1.1!!!

I installed 1.1 and now i miss my good ol' triarii phalanx.

I love this mod as well, no 1.1 campaign for me until this works with it ;) The hoplites look great now!

[TWFanatic]

Hey, TWFanatic - what should be altered/changes in "phalanx" units to make newest EB 1.1 units act as they did in Your mod for EB 1.0 (the "push" feature that allowed my Triarii to act so nice against those barbarians...)
Maybe it will be enough to change/replace sth in EDU unit descriptions for "phalanx" units... or maybe You have changed not only "classical phalanx" but also othe hoplite-style units?
Anyway, would it be lot of time to spend on working out that?

The best way to increase the "push" of phalanx units is to change the "short_spear" attribute to just "spear." Note that this can make them break formation faster as they push their foe back so quickly and with such force. However, in combination with the short_pike attribute, it reflects the classical hoplite phalanx superbly.



EDIT:
well, that may be not so hard anyway; using WinMerge to compare files can be really good and makes the whole process faster; IMHO the best solution would be to compare old EB 1.0 files with C mod, find changed units and then find these units in new EB 1.1.
It seems that units are grouped alphabetically, so there can even be possible direct comparison between FC and EB 1.1.
Anyway, changing unit stats can be now rather simple, though a little time-consuming.

Then I'll be able to make some of my own modifications I've planned to do for EB 1.0, with the grace of the fact that I'm running my EB on ALX.exe engine => increase number of models for units and make new units to use skins and models made by KLA.
First I'll add some new Roman units (new FCs with some wearing Lorica segmentata, ha! also some auxilia and cataphracts to be recruited for Imperial Reforms in Skythia and Syria/Assyria, if the player goes so deep into eastern/northeastern steppes, to cope with all these Pahlava/Sauromatyae/Sakae cataphracts...), then maybe some Greek units (hoplites for different cities).
I've also beenthinking why the Lucanian ligt infantry was not added to Roman unit roster? They seem to be the only Italian unit available as mercenary only, which is not so very much true...
Maybe I'll try to add them to Roman barracks native... or maybe Regional barracks of southern Italy?
Lol, knock yourself out. Be forewarned though: modding is addicting. Once you start modding, you can't stop. :clown:



I love this mod as well, no 1.1 campaign for me until this works with it ;) The hoplites look great now!
Well then I'd better get to work. :whip:

Hehe, thanks for the kind words.

[mlc82]

The best way to increase the "push" of phalanx units is to change the "short_spear" attribute to just "spear." Note that this can make them break formation faster as they push their foe back so quickly and with such force. However, in combination with the short_pike attribute, it reflects the classical hoplite phalanx superbly.


Lol, knock yourself out. Be forewarned though: modding is addicting. Once you start modding, you can't stop. :clown:


Well then I'd better get to work. :whip:

Hehe, thanks for the kind words.


I know what you mean about modding, I just did some minor tweaking to the unit file from the "Deus lo Vult" Medieval 2 mod (the mod I love that keeps that awful out of the box game on my hard drive) and spent nearly all of my free time for several days just working compulsively on that- now I never want to see that file again :dizzy2:

Thanks again for this great mod, your re-working of the hoplites (and early Triarii) really tops EB off for me.:2thumbsup:

[Darth Stalin]

Well, TWFanatic, I have now 2 options:
1. mod the files by myself and change hoplite unit stats, then add my developed units
2. wait until Your latest version of chariot/hoplite mod is released and add my units to files You've changed...

anyway, it seems that I'll wait with playing EB 1.1 until the appropriate updated versions of mini mods become available (I'm gonna use ALX.exe, so I'll have to update traits files) => spoils of victory, FC/Hop/Chariots mod, my own changes ;) and possibly some other minor changes (I dunno whether the ships graphics mini mod will work on EB 1.1)

[TWFanatic]

I'm not sure if you can mod the EDU file with the TrivialScript program in place. If you can't, I'm not sure I should bother making this mod as I think few people will sacrifice TrivialScript for this mod.

I created a thread asking that question here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=101892

If anyone has any answers I will be most appreciative.

[Banzai!]

If you can't, I'm not sure I should bother making this mod as I think few people will sacrifice TrivialScript for this mod.

Boo.:furious3:

TrivialScript be damned.

[STuNTz2023]

with the release of 1.1, and my bi features not working i tried your mod in custom 1.1 and it worked fine, however wouldnt let me start a campaign. I then uninstallled your mod, replaced short_spear with spear, short_pike attribute for all hoplite units i found and it had the same effect when your mod was installed. Not having much modding expirance myself i dont know if that effects the trivial scripit, considering your mod included other features. Though its not the file i believe u mention getting deleted. Either way thanks for making my hoplites do their job again. :2thumbsup:

[TWFanatic]

Interesting Stuntz. Did you just edit the campaign EDU? Or did you edit the custom/mp EDU and place it in the EB/Data folder? And either way, wasn't it overwritten? I would back your modified files up anyway as I've heard trivialscript replaces them every time you restart the game.

[STuNTz2023]

i went C:\EB\EB\Data and editted it there, and its never been replaced or re-written. Ended and started 1.1 quite a few times and every battle the hoplites work to perfection.

Edit : So if trivialscript is suppose to replace them everytime, did i install incorrectly?

[TWFanatic]

I think it only overwrites that file if you open the other type of game. For example, if you have been playing the "Single Player" game and then you switch to the "Multi Player" game then the EDU will be overwritten. Apparently, TrivialScript takes the appropriate EDU from the "backup EDU" folders in your EB/EB folder (may be Rome: Total War/EB folder for some folks) and places it in your Data folder, overwriting the previous one. So you should edit the EDU files in those backup folders in order for your results to be permanent.

See this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=101892).

[STuNTz2023]

Thanks, that was an easy enough thing to do. lol

[TWFanatic]

Glad to help.

[mlc82]

Hey Stuntz, would you mind sending me your unit file? I want to do the same thing but can't find the "short_spear" attribute in it, so not sure what to change exactly. I can bear waiting for a hopeful 1.1 conversion of TWFanatic's mod while actually playing a campaign if the hoplites just look correct. ;)

[Watchman]

No wonder you can't find it, since the attribute's light_spear... ~;)

[Pezlu]

Well, TWFanatic, I have now 2 options:
1. mod the files by myself and change hoplite unit stats, then add my developed units
2. wait until Your latest version of chariot/hoplite mod is released and add my units to files You've changed...

anyway, it seems that I'll wait with playing EB 1.1 until the appropriate updated versions of mini mods become available (I'm gonna use ALX.exe, so I'll have to update traits files) => spoils of victory, FC/Hop/Chariots mod, my own changes ;) and possibly some other minor changes (I dunno whether the ships graphics mini mod will work on EB 1.1)

Same :P

I'm thinking of modding the EDU myself, but I noticed not all units of the same kind (makedonian or classic phalanx) are modded exactly in the same way in 1.0 version of Fanatic's minimod; also in 1.1 I've noticed some units have slightly different stats, so I don't know if fiddling with attack/defence values would unbalance the game... I think I'll wait until someone more experienced than me edits them (i.e. TWFanatic :whip: :laugh4: )

Or maybe tomorrow I'll come here again and ask specific questions on the various traits and start modding myself anyway :P

[TWFanatic]

I think I will release it tonight...but it will hence forth just be Fanatic's Phalanx Mod. I'll probably include the necessary files if you want the aquilifer for your first cohorts, however you will have to decide which unit you want to remove in order to use it. If you have Alex.exe, you should be able to add the aquilifer without having to remove any units.

[STuNTz2023]

No wonder you can't find it, since the attribute's light_spear... ~;)

Right, its light_spear sorry mustve confused it after changing all of them.

[Darth Stalin]

I think I will release it tonight...but it will hence forth just be Fanatic's Phalanx Mod. I'll probably include the necessary files if you want the aquilifer for your first cohorts, however you will have to decide which unit you want to remove in order to use it. If you have Alex.exe, you should be able to add the aquilifer without having to remove any units.

That's OK - so I'll finally be able to do these strange things I've written about... :D
BTW: does that mod will include also chariots and elephants, as in 1.0 version?

[Pezlu]

If you have Alex.exe, you should be able to add the aquilifer without having to remove any units.

Already done (taking the aquilifer model/texture from the 1.0 release), tested a moment ago and it works :2thumbsup:

Since we don't have to wait much, I think I'll wait :P


BTW: does that mod will include also chariots and elephants, as in 1.0 version?

They have already been changed with 1.1, it's in "Gameplay changes":
* Added more hitpoints to elephants and chariots. They still disapprove of javelins and refuse to stand for them.
Also, in "Minor changes":
* Elephant armour primary/secondary switch.

However, I don't know if their changes are substantially equivalent to those made by TWFanatic, since I've not tried elephants/chariots out yet (in 1.1), and I hadn't the occasion to play with/against them with 1.0 after installing the minimod

[TWFanatic]

Sunshadow is right. For that reason, I will not edit the elephants or chariots. Just the Macedonian and classical phalanxes.


Almost done...

[Darth Stalin]

So, will there be edited only phalanxes, or hoplites too?
And I suppose not only Maks, but also for KH, Ptolemies and AS, => all powers using the "Macedonian style" phalanx, as well as "classical phalanx" (i.e. hoplites), like in 1.0?

[mlc82]

Sunshadow is right. For that reason, I will not edit the elephants or chariots. Just the Macedonian and classical phalanxes.


Almost done...

Awesome! Too bad for my girlfriend this weekend, it's going to EB campaign time. I was starting to suffer from withdrawals... ;)

[Kravixon]

Awesome! Too bad for my girlfriend this weekend, it's going to EB campaign time. I was starting to suffer from withdrawals... ;)

Get your priorities straight nub.

[TWFanatic]

So, will there be edited only phalanxes, or hoplites too?
And I suppose not only Maks, but also for KH, Ptolemies and AS, => all powers using the "Macedonian style" phalanx, as well as "classical phalanx" (i.e. hoplites), like in 1.0?
Correct. Hoplites too. By "classical phalanx", I mean hoplite phalanx.


Awesome! Too bad for my girlfriend this weekend, it's going to EB campaign time. I was starting to suffer from withdrawals... ;)
Lol, know what you mean.

[Darth Stalin]

Yeeeaaahh!
That's really good news!

+ the problem with ALX.exe seems to be solved, and it also seems that the problem with new (1.0/1.1) Imperial and Evocatae cohort will also be solved with use of "old" 0.81 models and skins... now I can start modding a little under the ALX engine...

First some corrections under "ordinary" RTW engine, then - for ALX engine (after necessary minimods are released => Spoils of victory and (maybe?) Konny's Roman Trait mod (or maybe I'll only change requirements for Triumph, to be easier achieved (maybe higher percentage probability depending on Influence a,d max. battle odds not 0.7 but 2? (well my Romans quite often fough battles as almost full stack against enemy full stack armies, but with enemy having worse quality troops, the odds were usually 1.2 or so... (for example against Germans or Gauls), while in reality victory in such a battle was almost certain Triumphus in historical Rome (though I think that in Large battle the percentage of killed enemies should be at least 50% or maybe more... as well as capture of Gader and Mastia/Nova Carthago should be more valuable than is now).

[mlc82]

Get your priorities straight nub.

Dad? Is that you?

[TWFanatic]

*updated*

Please see title post.

[OndGud]

Nice, just in time for my new KH campaign(only played 1 turn so no sacrifice).

[Smash15]

Excellent, thanks!

Here's a suggesion: The iphikratous hoplitai (and the heavy version, also some others like alpine phalanx) no longer use the macedonian phalanx ability in 1.1. So maybe it would be a good idea to give them short_pike too? The only problem I see with this is that they would have the same spear length as classic hoplites (they should be longer) and they would fight almost the same way.

[Kravixon]

2nd link (Aquilifer) isn't working.

I can finally start EB 1.1 now!

[TWFanatic]

Here's a suggesion: The iphikratous hoplitai (and the heavy version, also some others like alpine phalanx) no longer use the macedonian phalanx ability in 1.1. So maybe it would be a good idea to give them short_pike too? The only problem I see with this is that they would have the same spear length as classic hoplites (they should be longer) and they would fight almost the same way.

I was going to modify them as well, however I chose not to because of the inaccurate reduction in spear length. However, now that you know how, you can do that if you want to!


2nd link (Aquilifer) isn't working.


I'm on it.

[Vermin]

Hi TWFanatic,

The paths for the download are set to the SP and MP backup folders respectively????

Should one be for the EB\Data folder and the other for the backup folders?

Rgds

Vermin :help:

[Kravixon]

A friend and I have now begun 1.1. Pontus for both.

I'm just trying to find as many hoplites as I can now, because they own so much. :yes:

[Pezlu]

Great! Thanks!

Now I can start a campaign... I just have to think of a faction to start with :dizzy2:

[TWFanatic]

Hi TWFanatic,

The paths for the download are set to the SP and MP backup folders respectively????

Should one be for the EB\Data folder and the other for the backup folders?

Rgds

Vermin :help:
If you have TrivialScript, you only need to edit those files. Every time you switch from SP to MP or vice versa, your EDU file is automatically replaced with the one in your backup folder.

If you chose not to install TrivialScript, I reckoned that would most likely be an advanced user who knows what to do.

[Vermin]

Thanks! That makes sense now!

Regards

Vermin

[Darth Stalin]

Heh, I've installed Trivial script, but as I've decided to use ALX engine, I've installed EB-ALX minimod and made new shortcut directly to ALX.exe, without the Trivial script, so I'll launch my EB from desktop, without Trivial.
Thus I think I'll have to place Your EDU in basic EB/Data folder, then applying various changes to both EDU and DMB files, also to EDB too... :D

BTW: maybe I'll make a fix to models/textures of Roman Imperial Legionaries/Evocati, as they seem be made wrong - with use of old 0.81a models/skins.

[TWFanatic]

BTW: maybe I'll make a fix to models/textures of Roman Imperial Legionaries/Evocati, as they seem be made wrong - with use of old 0.81a models/skins.
You should upload it here, I imagine you would have a lot of greatful EBers, myself among them, because I was considering doing that myself.

[Leviathan DarklyCute]

Hi TWFanatic, why did you give short_pike trait only to some hoplites, but left others, like the Indo-Greek Noble Hoplites or the Massaliotai Hoplitai, with the old light_spear trait?
I think you should give all (or almost all) hoplites the short_pike trait.

[TWFanatic]

Hi TWFanatic, why did you give short_pike trait only to some hoplites, but left others, like the Indo-Greek Noble Hoplites or the Massaliotai Hoplitai, with the old light_spear trait?
I think you should give all (or almost all) hoplites the short_pike trait.
Because they have two weapons, a spear and a sword. You cannot give such units the short_pike trait without disasterous results. Try it! You'll see what I mean.

Believe me, I wish I could change those units too...

[Darth Stalin]

You should upload it here

If only I had known how to do that...

[alatar]

Put all the files you changed in a folder.

Example, call the folder Darth and inside Darth create a eb folder, and in that a data folder, and put the text files in there. And any models you used aswell.

Then compress "darth" and upload it here. filefront.com

I'd be gratefull.

Also a guide on anychanges to get Fanatics stuff to work on Alx needed?

[TWFanatic]

I have no clue, sorry. It should work on ALEX, but I can't be 100% positive as I don't own the game myself.

[Darth Stalin]

There's no problem with playing Fanatics stuff oon ALX - I do it myself and all is OK.
The only clue is, that to play ALX you have to make independent shortcut (instead of using the Trivial Script), so in order to get his stuff to work you have to manually copy/paste his EDU from "sp game edu backup / mp game edu backup" into main EB/data folder.

ATTENTION:
the "fix" file IS READY! And it has been already tested - and works!
However, the files corrected are the EDU files made by TW Fanatic; unfortunately I've overwritten original EB sp/mp EDU files with his work, so I couldn't correct them.
Anyone who wants original files in game corrected is asked to send me the EB sp EDU and EB mp EDU files on following email:

darth.stalin@wp.pl

These files after correction shall be implemented into the fix, so everyone will be able to play corrected EB legionaries!

As only I manage to upload the fix on FileFrontl I'll provide appropriate link to let TWFanatic and Bovi submit corrected files as new Phalanxmod version and EB 1.1 fix, respectively.

LATEST EDIT:

[please don't be suprised with slightly different author's name => that's me but it seems that FileFront requires a slightly different way of spelling the names/nicks]

The file can be found at:

FileFront:
http://files.filefront.com/DS+Romani+fixzip/;10027599;/fileinfo.html

RapidShare:
http://rapidshare.com/files/108335667/DS_Romani_fix.zip.html


ATTENTION!
There was a typo in "basic_EB_files" EDUs, found in Eb/data, Eb/sp game edu backup and Eb/mp game edu backup!

Updated files are uploaded just now, yet for those who have already downloaded it, here's the solution:
In all EDUs mentioned above please find the following section:

;525
type roman infantry first legionary cohort ii
dictionary roman_infantry_legionary_first_cohort_ii ; Cohortes Imperatoria
category infantry
class heavy
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_infantry_cohorsimperatoria_evocata, 50, 0, 1.2

and DELETE BOLDED PART OF THE CODE (the "_evocata")

[Parallel Pain]

Which spear units are fighting like classical phalanx?

I know the Greek classical phalanx are. What about say the Helveti/Sweboz spear units that used the shield wall in history, or the triarii, etc. I trust successor hopiltes like bactrian and stuff are also fighting classical phalanx (ie given the short_pike)

[Leviathan DarklyCute]

Darth Stalin, can you please add a rapidshare link? Filefront doesn't work for me...
Edit: Thanks!

[Darth Stalin]

Links updated, as latest version had to be uploaded due to a bug found in it by Obelics.

[stupac]

Couple of questions, a few of them kind of stupid.

1) I think I screwed up the aquilifier installation, EB is giving me an error on this line "skeleton fs_indian_elephant" in the descr_model_battle.txt whenever I try to start Eb. I don't think I messed with that line, but somehow it's not working, i should have made a backup. Anyways, I was wondering if someone could upload the original if they have time? I'd really appreciate it.

2) Weren't their a few of the irish units removed in 1.1, so should I have to remove a unit to add the aquilifier?

3) I know the phalanx mod is save compatible, the aquilifier is too right?

Thanks for your mod Fanatic!

[Pezlu]

First of all, sorry for my english... I think it's a bit unclear :juggle2:


1) I think I screwed up the aquilifier installation, EB is giving me an error on this line "skeleton fs_indian_elephant" in the descr_model_battle.txt whenever I try to start Eb. I don't think I messed with that line, but somehow it's not working, i should have made a backup.
If you are using notepad, it might cause problems. For example, it seemed there where issues with 1.1 working on ALX.exe; it turned out that making the same modifications to the files with another program (i.e. Textpad (http://www.textpad.com/)) does NOT give those issues. Notepad was the ONLY cause. So you should try re-editing from scratch if that's your case.


Anyways, I was wondering if someone could upload the original if they have time? I'd really appreciate it.
Here (http://files.filefront.com/descr+model+battletxt/;10043402;/fileinfo.html) :2thumbsup:


2) Weren't their a few of the irish units removed in 1.1, so should I have to remove a unit to add the aquilifier?
Don't know exactly; if you are using RTW.exe or BI.exe you HAVE to remove a model and ALL units that use it (so, find a model that is used by only one unit if possible; I'd say it's better to just ignore the aquilifer anyway). If you are using ALX.exe there is a higher model limit, so you don't have to remove anything to add the aquilifer.


3) I know the phalanx mod is save compatible, the aquilifier is too right?
Don't know, sorry. The phalanx mod changes only the EDU; I don't know if changes to the DMB are save-compatible (anyway, if you remove a unit I think it will NOT be save-game compatible). But if you remove one of the goidilic units it MAY be; I think their model is still used by the seleucid unit "Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou (Hellenic Elite Spearmen)", so you shouldn't remove them anyway.

[stupac]

Perfectly clear, thank you. Strange, I used notepad++ to edit the file, which I use for everything. Thank you very much, I'll try it with your file.

[Watchman]

You need to make sure the files are saved in the proper text format ("Windows format" is the right one) and encoding (ANSI, AFAIK).

[Watchman]

But if you remove one of the goidilic units it MAY be; I think their model is still used by the seleucid unit "Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou (Hellenic Elite Spearmen)", so you shouldn't remove them anyway.Ordmhornaghts (the hammer guys) are safe to wipe, but the others share models and should be left alone.

[stupac]

Ordmhornaghts (the hammer guys) are safe to wipe, but the others share models and should be left alone.

I see, hmm, I just went ahead and tried adding the aquilifier without removing a unit. How would I know if it is causing a problem? So far I've been able to load EB and play custom battles with the aquilifier working fine. I've been able to continue my romani campaign, though I've just started and haven't got to marian reforms yet.

[Dooz]

That's weird... I tried adding the aq's without removing a unit, playing on Alex, but the game would crash before getting to the main menu. When I restored the original text files, all was well. And all I did was copy + paste the stuff that I was supposed to in the files I was supposed to....

[stupac]

That's weird... I tried adding the aq's without removing a unit, playing on Alex, but the game would crash before getting to the main menu. When I restored the original text files, all was well. And all I did was copy + paste the stuff that I was supposed to in the files I was supposed to....

make sure you add the -show_err to your shortcut to see what's up, because I was doing the same thing, just copying and pasting, but each time I'd get an error in the file I did. I was using notepad++, but I went and did it in textpad(thanks to sunshadow) and voila! Seems to be working fine using BI.

[Dooz]

Ah, that must be it. Thanks friend. :bow:

[Watchman]

It's easy to accidentally save the text in the wrong format which the RTW parser refuses to read, with Notepad++. As long as you make sure the file's in "Windows format" and (AFAIK) "ANSI" encoding it works just fine.

[stupac]

It's easy to accidentally save the text in the wrong format which the RTW parser refuses to read, with Notepad++. As long as you make sure the file's in "Windows format" and (AFAIK) "ANSI" encoding it works just fine.

Thanks watchman, I'll keep that in mind for next time, but for now I'm not touching my files again now that I have everything working finally. Was having EB withdrawls for a while there.

[TWFanatic]

Lol stupac, I know how you feel.

Thank you everyone for helping each other while I was away. :bow:

[Blazing141]

Hi guys..
So I installed EB 1.1, then the mini-mod to make it work with Alex, then TWFanatics Phalanx Mod, then DS' Romani fix to "fix" the various Roman elite troops...Also, I am NOT using trivial script to load the game...I basically just created a shortcut to start RTW-Alx.exe....

NOW FOR THE FUNNY PART....

I am somehow able to both play custom battles with the new Romani units AND still play the Imperial Campaign (seemingly) without having to switch EDU's...

Is this possible? Am I headed for disaster? Its still early in the game and all seems well, should I expect trouble down the road?

Thanks for any insight...

Bests
B

[TWFanatic]

You might be using the Campaign EDU. You can do this, but on custom battles you don't always get all your faction's homeland untis and you often get too many distant foreign auxilaries.

Or maybe you are using your Multiplayer/custom battle EDU. This would result in far less foreign auxilary units in your campaign, and thus you would not get the full EB experience. However, you don't really notice this till you get a certain distance away from your homeland.

[Blazing141]

Thanks.

How do I find out which EDU I'm using? Also, is there a way to use TrivialScript to address this issue and still have all the mini-mods working?

What do you mean by not the full EB experience?

Thanks for the reply.

[Narhon]

I think it only overwrites that file if you open the other type of game. For example, if you have been playing the "Single Player" game and then you switch to the "Multi Player" game then the EDU will be overwritten. Apparently, TrivialScript takes the appropriate EDU from the "backup EDU" folders in your EB/EB folder (may be Rome: Total War/EB folder for some folks) and places it in your Data folder, overwriting the previous one. So you should edit the EDU files in those backup folders in order for your results to be permanent.

See this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=101892).


Thanks for the information. Twice I have had an hour of work on the desc_unit file changed and did not think about looking anywhere else.:wall:

:clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: :clown: Darn clowns I cannot get away from them

[KuKulzA]

[edit]

sorry, I feel retarded

[KuKulzA]

alright, didn't want to ask for help until I've reinstalled EB 1.1 and the phalanx mod...


However it still doesn't work for me... I know what it is supposed to look like as I had tried the EBv1 version of the mod... but when I extract the files into the EB folder, it doesn't work...

after reading the entire thread I've come across something to do with the TrivialScript?

I don't know what i should do to make the phalanx mod work... any suggestions?

[||Lz3||]

just a question , is this compatible whit MP?? or I would have to switch files between SP and MP?:huh2:

[STuNTz2023]

i believe mp requires the original edu for the current version.

[||Lz3||]

so that means that I can play MP whitout having to swap files every time?:huh2:


emm no one knows???... any of you have tried to use it whit MP???....

[||Lz3||]

umm anybody?:huh2:

em nevermind I alredy figured this out...

[mcantu]

TWFanatic,

do you have the issue with short_pike in which the back rows of soldiers look like they're punching the air with their spears?

[Leviathan DarklyCute]

That part of the performance of short_pike, it's normal.

[mcantu]

its seems like that would cancel out the visual benefit of fixing the spear points in the ground. to me it is much more distracting to have the rear lines of a unit thrusting their spears into the air during combat than to have them marching with the spears in the ground....

[Juggernaut]

its seems like that would cancel out the visual benefit of fixing the spear points in the ground. to me it is much more distracting to have the rear lines of a unit thrusting their spears into the air during combat

...and holding the spear upwards overhand.
I cannot how that is possible without tiring your arm after 2 minutes.
It's just one of those damn hardcode limit.
AFAIK BI's shieldwall is the closest thing that comes to hoplites.

[||Lz3||]

well I still think this is better than having them dragging their spears...

[mcantu]

does having the back rows stabbing into the air instead of manking contact with enemy soldiers affect kills?

[Hooahguy]

Here is the Aquilifer. Screenshot taken by a satisfied customer.
https://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa73/hooahguy14/newaqulaifier.jpg

hehe i took this pic!:2thumbsup:

[Flibjib]

Since the new version of EB, and the subsequent release of this modification, I've noticed that using this mod changes all the affected spear models to the dorky looking pikes. I seem to remember the spears being left intact in 1.0 version. Is this a known issue, or am I the first one to bring this up?

[mcantu]

using the short_pike attribute causes the engine to automatically use the shorter, more basic looking spears. its hardcoded...

[Olimpian]

I have 3 questions regarding your mod TWFanatic:

1.Why don't Iphikratous Hoplitai have short_pike ability?

2.Why do Poeni Citizen Militia have short_pike ability?

3.Don't you think those light hoplites (ekdromoi) look awkward in their loose formation and with short_pike ability?I think they would be better without it.

Please note, these are only some considerations, I'm not asking you to change your mod or anything, I'm just curious to see your opinion regarding these issues.

Cheers

[TWFanatic]

Sorry I have been away so long. I'll answer a few questions in case any one is still wondering.

Yes, short_pike has shortcomings (if you'll pardon the pun). You may make up your own mind as to whether or not the benefits outweigh the negatives. This mod is meant to better represent phalanx warfare within the limitations of the rtw engine.


1.Why don't Iphikratous Hoplitai have short_pike ability?
Units with secondary weapons (Iphikratous Hoplitai have swords) cannot use short_pike. Try it, you'll see what I mean.


2.Why do Poeni Citizen Militia have short_pike ability?
Because, to quote the description: "...they fight as a militia phalanx..." As the EB team set them up to fight as a Hoplite-style phalanx, they got short_pike.


3.Don't you think those light hoplites (ekdromoi) look awkward in their loose formation and with short_pike ability?I think they would be better without it.
No. If you do, feel free to remove the trait for the Ekdromoi.


hehe i took this pic!
Nice hooahguy, credit given.

[Olimpian]

Thanks for the (if late) reply TWFanatic. I decided to leave things as they are, I'm quite satisfied with your mini-mod. Thanks for making it :2thumbsup: And welcome back :beam:

[TWFanatic]

Thanks for the (if late) reply TWFanatic. I decided to leave things as they are, I'm quite satisfied with your mini-mod. Thanks for making it :2thumbsup: And welcome back :beam:

You're quite welcome, and thank you!

[A Terribly Harmful Name]

Units with secondary weapons (Iphikratous Hoplitai have swords) cannot use short_pike. Try it, you'll see what I mean.

It would be better if you removed their secondary weapons and treated them just like classical hoplites, since they are expected to do so more than break their formation and fight with their short swords.

Otherwise it is a great mod.

[Intranetusa]

I have a couple of questions, srry if they're already answered.

1. Does this use the Roman legion models from 1.1 or 1.0? (cuz I believe the 1.1 Roman faces were larger than 1.0)

2. Is this mod compatible with 1.1 straight out, or do I have to do some manual changes such as switching some files around? Or do I not need this if 1.1 includes everything in this mod?

[TWFanatic]

1. This does not touch the models or textures of any preexisting unit (though you can add the aquilifer which, of course, requires the adding new models and textures to your game). The "phalanx" changes are purely statistical and modify only the EDU file.

2. 1.1 does not include any of the features/changes of this mod. This mod is compatible only with 1.1. Installation is simple: extract to whatever folder you have installed EB in (probably called Rome: Total War unless you have changed it).

[Intranetusa]

Ah ok thanks. The download link for your mod for v1.1 is still the same (first page) correct?


btw, just as a confirmation, the reason why it doesn't have chariots/elephants is because they errors have already been fixed in EB 1.1, correct?

thanks

[TWFanatic]

Ah ok thanks. The download link for your mod for v1.1 is still the same (first page) correct?


btw, just as a confirmation, the reason why it doesn't have chariots/elephants is because they errors have already been fixed in EB 1.1, correct?

thanks

Sorry for the late response.

Yes and yes.

[Chaotix]

Hey, I'd like to play with your mod TWFanatic, as it looks really cool. I just need to know if it's save-game compatible with unmodded 1.1, as I already have a well advanced Makedonia campaign that I wouldn't want to lose.

If anyone else, knows the answer, feel free to tell me instead. Thanks!

EDIT: I went ahead and installed the Phalanx Mod, but it doesn't seem to be working. The hoplites still move with their spearheads underground and they break up when fighting. To be clear, I extracted the folder into the EB file in the RTW directory, where it prompted me to replace both export_descr_unit.txt's, which I did. Did I make a mistake somewhere or forget something? The only instructions are to extract into the EB folder.

[TWFanatic]

Let me rephrase that: extract into the folder into which you have installed EB (it's probably called Rome: Total War unless you've changed it). I resisted from just saying your Rome: Total War folder because many people have multiple folders for different mods (e.g., I used to have an RTR folder, an N2:TW folder, and an EB folder in addition to my RTW folder).

[Chaotix]

Thanks for the clarification. The mod is working fine now. I can also confirm that it is save-game compatible. You might want to put that in your first post, so nobody else asks the same question.

[TWFanatic]

Forgot to respond to that last bit. Yes it is savegame compatible (though I take it you already figured that out). I have editted the first post to clarify those two issues.

[Titus Flaminius]

:ave::rtwyes:

cool looking units

[Demivrgvs]

I quite like what you did and I've some questions and nitpicking if you don't mind. :beam:

Phalangites:
- you said that shield bonuses are doubled when in phalanx formation, does this stacks with shield bonuses being doubled against missiles? Maybe I've misunderstood and it's the same thing all units share and not something related to phalanx. If the shield bonus is doubled by the very phalanx formation then I think having those relatively small shields with 5 is too high when most larger shields only have 4. I would make them 3 as if it correctly becomes 6 when in formation it would still be the most powerful shield protection in the game

Hoplites
- I would at least reduce your shield bonuses by 1, 5 seems alread enough. If you want them to better perform on the front and still be vulnerable to rear attacks incresing defence skill may be better imo

[TWFanatic]

In regards to the Macedonian phalanxes, the reduction of armor defense by two points and increase of shield defense by one point cancels each-other out when the unit is in phalanx and facing the enemy head-on. The one point increase in defense skill makes them slightly harder to break from the front in melee but this is more than compensated by the reduction in attack. They are more vulnerable to missiles and melee attacks in the rear due to the reduction in armor.

In regards to the Hoplite phalanxes, the -1 armor and +2 shield adjustments results in +1 defense vs. melee and missile from the front and -1 from the rear. Thus, the shield value is essentially only increased by one. Increasing it only to 5 would defeat one purpose of this mod which is to make phalanxes harder to break from the front. The -2 adjustment to attack also makes hoplites kill at a slower rate.

[Demivrgvs]

Thanks for the reply, though I already understood your reasons behind the changes. What I'd really like to know is:

- could someone confirm that shield bonuses are doubled in phalanx formation?

- is it true that shield bonuses count double vs. missile attacks?

- if both statements are true, does they stack?

[TWFanatic]

The reason units with the phalanx special ability are so hard to break from the front is because their shield value is doubled. Yes, that doubled shield value effects defense vs both missiles and melee attacks. Hence why missiles just bounce right off of Macedonian phalanxes.

Take a look at this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=88859).


- if both statements are true, does they stack?
Both statements are true but I'm not sure what you are asking here.

[Demivrgvs]

Sorry if I wasn't clear. If phalanx formation doubles the shield bonus and then shield bonus is doubled against missiles...does it mean those little shield with a base value of 5 grant instead defense 20 (or 15 if only the base value is doubled) vs. missile attacks?

5 (base shield bonus) +5 (phalanx formation) +10/+5 (x2 bonus vs. missiles)

[TWFanatic]

Tbh, I'm not sure if the effects are culminative when it comes to missile fire. I am inclined to believe they are because I rarely see phalanxes take missile-induced casualties from the front.

[Demivrgvs]

Ok, if you're ever interested on updating this mod I may have some suggestions after several hour of tests.

- Light_Spear: it really does what the "Complete EDU Guide" says (decreased defense vs. infantry instead of decreased attack), thus the +4 bonus to attack vanilla EB gives to spears to balance it is wrong imo.

- Hoplite formation: instead of assigning short_pike you may just edit the radius in the following line...

soldier unit_model, soldiers, extras, mass (,radius,height)

...by default it's 0.4 (even when not displayed at all as it is in EB's EDU), but if you set it to 0.22 it makes the soldier fight in "a tightly packed formation with overlapping shields".

- Phalanx's shield bonuses: you were right, phalanx bonus stack with the x2 bonus vs. missiles. Thus they little shields provide 15 or 20 defense (which is why even heavy javelins won't scratch them from the front).

Just my 2 cents.