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CirdanDharix
11-07-2007, 12:46
Here's an updated version mixed with Fanatic's mod--kudos to him and thanks for letting me use his stuff.
http://rapidshare.com/files/73347518/EB.zip

Here's an updated version, mixed with Fanatic's mod (see above for why he's awesome) and including changes to the unit prices. See below for details.

http://rapidshare.com/files/73346581/cost.zip

Stuff changed:
Made it possible to play custom battles without changing the EDU. All factional units and some regional ones should be available in custom battles, without any effect on campaign gameplay. If any factional units don't show up, please let me know.
Added assimilation system--assimilation of non-homeland privinces is very expensive and requires you put up with big penalties for a long time. But it allows you to build a Gov I once the process is complete.
Reworked governments--compared to regular EB, putting more centralised governments in place is more expensive and lengthy, but more rewarding in the long term.
Koinon Hellenon now has two different Gov Is, one is a democracy meant for Athens and similar city states,the other is the Spartan Agoge, only certain provinces can have it though so you can't turn Athens into a Spartan-style state.
Increased bonii for many unique "buildings".
Newly-captured provinces will now be in a state of anarchy. This is bad. Very bad. So hurry up with the temporary military government. By the way, you can just destroy it, but that will break the government building conditions, so don't.
Reworked economy--again, many buildings made to be more costly but more rewarding.
Reworked the stats of naval units. Generally speaking, ships cost more to build but less to maintain than in plain EB; they no longer all have the same manpower.
Changed the costs of artillery units for more realism. Maybe it will actually be worth building them now.
Modified ranged units--ranged attacks (especially javelins which I find useless) have been made generally more powerful. Slings are no longer armour-piercing uberweapons and they have less range than bows, but more ammunition.
And Stuff. I may have forgotten some things.

EDIT:
I've also added a new tweak/feature: for the factions that set up colonies of military settlers, these military colonies enable the recruitment of appropriate units; klerouchoi phalangitai for all, and the upgraded colony gives better units for the Eastern Hellenistic factions (dependant on faction: Baktria only get Pezhetairoi, AS gets the Pezhetairoi and Argyraspidai like this, Ptolemies get their military settler elites). The units recruited through military colonies either are no longer recruitable through the standard MICs, or have had their AOR restricted. This gives more incentive for building military colonies and is realistic. Also, all colony buildings have been re-balanced--even for the factions that send out colonists, rather than settling them, there should be more incentive to use them.

Also, Carthaginian Sacred Bands are now recruited from the Temple Complex unique building in Carthage herself.

EDIT2: New version! This one has a vastly changed unit pricing: I've tried to estimate a reasonable price per soldier for each unit, although I've always tried to err on the high, rather than low, side of things (since armies in R:TW will not be as big as the larger real armies of the time). My main concern has been to encourage realistic usage of troops: for instance, it is very cheap to raise levies, so you lose nothing by disbanding them when you don't need them. However, levies tend to be more costly than in plain EB, so keeping them mobilised for long is not a good idea. Generally, I tried to take into account costs for logistics and feeding an army in the field, and this tends to reduce differences between the maintenance costs of elites and conscripts (because it always costs as much to feed ten thousand men, whether they are uber-elite Spartans or hapless hoplitai haploi), although elites still cost much more per man. It also inflates the cost of even the weakest cavalry quite a bit, since horses are expensive to feed and look after. There's also a big difference between the cost of raising professional units and the cost of raising levies, much greater than difference in maintenance costs between the two. Now, I've included a .txt document with the per-man costs in the download, but here's a copy for the impatient:

Note: Mn=Mnai drch=Drachmai (6000 drachmai = 60 Mnai = 1 Talent) "+x%" means you must pay the maintenance cost +x% to raise the unit; pure mercenaries don't have this since the game engine already gives them a "signing up bonus", but mercenaries that also appear as regionals do.

Iovamann, Accensii 1.4Mn +15%
Iaosatae, Toxotai, Nubian Spearmen, Ethiopian Archers, Arab Slingers, Komatai Sphendonetai, Shuban-i Fradakshana, Northern Iberian Skirmishers, Leves 1.5Mn +20%
Sphendonetai, Pantodapoi, Arabian Skirmishers, Imannae, Baktrian Light Infantry, Iberi Velites, Phyletichoi Illyrioi, Velites 1.5Mn +25%
Akontistai, Sotaroas, Komotai Toxotai, Balroae, Numidian Archers, Arabian Archer-Spearmen, Sabaean Archers, Lugoae, Gund-i Palta, Germanic Archers, Iberi Milites, Sarmatian Spearmen 165drch +20%
Kluddobro, Katpatuka Zanteush, Tabargânê Êrânshahr, Galatikoi Kluddolon, Germanic Levy Spearmen, Goidilic Levy Spearmen, Balearic Slingers, Rorarii 175drch +30%
Hoplitai Haploi, Doryphoroi Pontikoi, Garamantine Infantry, Numidian Javelinmen, Red Sea Axemen, East Coast Levies, Misteret Izrahim Tsorim, Bagaudas, Gaeroas, Komatai, Nizagan-i Eranshahr, Hyrkanian Hillmen, Scythian Axemen, Anatolian Hillmen, Germanic Skirmishers, Vigiles, Saka Spearmen 2Mn +25%
Goidilic Light Infantry, Balearic Light Infantry, Camillan Hastati 2Mn +150%
Aithiopikon Agema 2Mn +500%
Pantodapoi Phalangitai, Ethiopian Spearmen, Sabaean Citizen Spearmen, Batacorii, Gaelaiche, Cemmeinarn, Nizag Gund, Thanvare Payahdag, Slaganz, Saka Foot Archers, Sarmatian Foot Archers, Subeshi Archers 2.1Mn +30%
Polybian Hastati 215drch +200%
Phalangitai Deuteroi, Machimoi Phalangitai, Aljazgae, Chatti Clubmen, Scythian Foot Archers 2.2Mn +30%
Aichmetai Leukanoi, Iudaioi Taxeis, Uazali, Illyrioi Thureophoroi, Machimoi, Aithiopoi Machairophoroi, Drapanai, Getikoi Stratiotai, Komatai Agrianai, Bastarnae Shock Infantry, Mardian Archers 2.2Mn +100%
Cwmyr, Levantine Archer Auxilia, Heavy Persian Archers 2.2Mn +400%
Iberi Caetrati, Caetrannan, Camillan Principes 2.3Mn +150%
Arabian Noble Infantry, Botroas, Germanic Spearmen, Chauci Spearmen, Scandinavian Spearmen, Chatti Spearmen 2.3Mn +250%
Anatim Leebim, Iberi Scutari, Gestikapoinann, Polybian Principes 235drch +250%
Peltastai, Ekdromoi Hoplitai, Peltastai Indohellenikoi, Partohellenikoi Thureophoroi 2.4Mn +100%
Western Auxilia, Eastern Auxilia 2.4Mn +300%
Toxotai Kretikoi 2.4Mn +500%
Mesoorianim Leebim, Armenian Medium Infantry, Germanic Swordsmen, Loricati Caetrati, Asturian Axemen 245drch +300%
Thureophoroi, Thureopherontes Toxotai, Red Sea Hoplites, Komatai Pelekuphoroi, Georgian Swordsmen, Kardaka, Hastati Samnitici 2.5Mn +100%
Bataroas, Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai, Uirodusios 2.5Mn +275%
Toxotai Syriakoi, Armenian Noble Infantry, Germanic Pikemen, Goidilic Shock Infantry, Roscaithrera, Cohortes Reformata 2.5Mn +400%
Dorkim Aloopim, Cohortes Imperatoria, Prima Cohortes Reformata 2.5Mn +600%
Prima Cohortes Imperatoria 2.5Mn +800%
Thraikioi Peltastai, Agrianikoi Pelekephoroi, Klerouchoi Phalangitai, Cherusci Swordsmen 255drch +125%
Komatai Epilektoi 2.6Mn +200%
Iphikratous Hoplitai, Hoplitai Indohellenikoi, Koinon Hellenon Phalangitai, Getikoi Straiotai Thorakitai, Polybian Triarii 2.6Mn +400%
Hoplitai, Hoplitai Hellenikoi, Syracuse Hoplites, Dorkim Leebi-Ponnim Mookdamim 2.7Mn +100%
Camillan Triarii 2.7Mn +200%
Calawre, Pontikoi Thorakitai, Scortamavera, Pedites Extraordinarii 2.7Mn +300%
Pezhetairoi, Chalkaspidai 275drch +400%
Hysteroi Pezhetairoi, Sreni Pattya Yoddaha, Germanic Heavy Infantry 275drch +500%
Massiliotes Hoplitai 2.8Mn +100%
Milnaht, Teceitos, Drwdae, Taxeis Triballoi, Loricati Scutari 2.8Mn +250%
Dorkim Leebi-Ponnim Mesoorianim 285drch +100%
Thraikoi Romphaiphoroi, Skadagunganz, Goidilic Noble Infantry 2.9Mn +300%
Misthophoroi Peltastai 3Mn
Klerouchoi Agema, Aanatim Aloopim, Pictones Neitos, Lugian Swordsmen, Dorkei Hatkafa Iberim, Antesignani 3Mn +400%
Argyraspidai, Chaonion Agema, Agema Hellenikon 3.1Mn +400%
Thorakitai, Indogreek Noble Hoplites 3.2Mn +250%
Kluddargos, Neitos, Galatikoi Klerouchoi, Ambakaro 3.2Mn +450%
Cohortes Evocata 3.3Mn +300%
Thorakitai Hoplitai, Baktrioi Agema, Basilikon Agema 3.3Mn +400%
Pheraspidai, Hypaspistai, Cohortes Praetoriana 335drch +700%
Arjos, Rycalawre, Solduros, Galatikoi Kuarothoroi 345drch +300%
Dorkim Kdosim 3.5Mn +500%
Epilektoi Hoplitai 3.6Mn +200%
Carnute Cingetos 3.7Mn +600%
Spartiatai Hoplitai 375drch +900%
Thorakitai Argyraspidai 3.8Mn +800%
Gaesatae, Tindanotae 395drch +850%
Aorsi Riders, Steppe Riders, Dahae Riders, Pahlava Shivatir, Sarmatian Horse-Archers, Scythian Horse-Archers, Dahae Skirmishers, Saka Riders, Saka Horse-Archers, Yuezhi Horse-Archers 4Mn +50%
Ebherni Armoured Shock Infantry, Dosidataskeli 425drch +600%
Roxolanni Riders, Scythian Riders 4.5Mn +50%
Myrcharn 4.5Mn +200%
Hippakontistai, Arabian Levy Cavalry, Nizakahar Ayrudzi 5Mn +50%
Numidian Cavalry, Taramonnos, Getikoi Hippotoxotai, Equites Cantabrii, Ayrudzi Netadzik, Early Yuezhi Nobles 5Mn +150%
Ethiopian Cavalry, Mezenai, Ridanz, Equites Caetrati 5.5Mn +75%
Machimoi Hippeis, Asiatikoi Hippakontistai 6Mn +75%
Illyrioi Hippeis, Sabaean Citizen Cavalry, Goidilic Cavalry, Saka Lancers 6Mn +150%
Thraikioi Hippeis, Kamboja Asvaka Ksatriya, Iberi Curisi 6.5Mn +150%
Prodromoi, Prodromoi Thraikioi, Numidian Nobles, Liby-Phoenician Cavalry 6.9Mn +300%
Carthaginian Citizen Cavalry, Aspet Hetsezalor, Mada Asabara, Asavaran-i Dehbed, Polybian Equites 7Mn +100%
Hippeis, Asiatikoi Hippeis, Katputka Asabara, Camillan Equites 7.2Mn +100%
Ktistai, Sarmatian Noble Horse-Archers, Alan Nobles 7.5Mn +250%
Equites Germanorum, Equites Hispanorum, Equites Thracum, Equites Gallorum 7.5Mn +300%
Ala Imperatoria 7.5Mn +500%
Roxolanni Nobles, Early Saka Nobles, Aorsi Nobles 8Mn +300%
Baktrioi Hippeis, Hetairoi Aspidophoroi, Taxilan Agema, Ambakaro Epones 8Mn +400%
Hippeis Tarantinoi, Leuce Epos, Tarabostes 8.5Mn +150%
Dahae Nobles 8.5Mn +350%
Baktrioi Hippotoxotai, Hippeis Lonchophoroi 9Mn +400%
Brihentin, Galatikoi Lavotuxri, Marhathegnoz 10Mn +200%
Hippeis Thessalikoi, Campanian Cavalry 10Mn +300%
Klerouchoi Agema Hippeon, Agema Hippeon Hellenikon 10Mn +400%
Remi Mairepos, Scythian Nobles 10.3Mn +400%
Hippeis Xystophoroi, Equites Extraordinarii 10.5Mn +300%
Molosson Agema 10.5Mn +500%
Saka Bodyguard Cavalry 11Mn +400%
Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi, Iberi Lancearii 11.5Mn +600%
Sacred Band of Astarte, Shivatir-i Zrehbaran, Zrahakir Netadzik 12Mn +550%
Hetairoi, Pahlavan-i Zrehbaran 12.5Mn +500%
Nakharakan Aspet, Asavaran-i Azadan 13Mn +400%
Girvpanvar 13.5Mn +500%
Khuveshavagan 14.5Mn +300%


I've also tweaked quite alot of units. Notably, upped the lethality of falcatae to the same level as shortswords, upped the stats of Galatikoi Kuarathoroi to the same level as Arjos/Solduros/Rycalawre (since they're basically the same unit, only Galatian), upped Polybian Triarii's defence and increased the charge of Polybian, Marian, and Augustan legionnaires. Also upped the Polybian Principes a bit and repercuted the changes onto Marian/Augustan units. Cataphracts now frighten infantry (you wouldn't want them charging you, either). Very heavy cavalry (Hippeis Thessalikoi and heavier) now have a bonus against cavalry, to enable them to make short work of light cavalry--in a mounted melee, the bigger, stronger chargers of the heavy cavalry are quite an advantage over ligther horses bred for speed over power. Pheraspidai have the same defence as Thorakitai, since they seem to wear the same armour. Uachtarach Dubo-something have also been upped to match the Dosidataskeli (or the reverse--can't remember). Pontikoi Thorakitai have been boosted, since they seemed much weaker than Thureophoroi. Caetrati have been given -1 armour and Loricati Caetrati +1, since there wasn't enough difference between their defences.

CirdanDharix
11-09-2007, 17:51
bump for updated dowload.

The Celt
11-10-2007, 05:03
Bump. Awesome mod. This should be perfect for factions with limited expansion zones or for migration campaigns. :2thumbsup:

TWFanatic
11-10-2007, 12:58
A lot of this is stuff I've already done to my game. Some excellent ideas there for balancing and improving EB gameplay. Great mod for long-term, serious campaigns, but not well-suited for blitzkriegs (then again EB as a game really isn't either). Good work.:2thumbsup:

CaesarAvgvstvs
11-10-2007, 16:48
Hi all. I want to play this mod, but whenever I boot up EB, I get an error message about the officer of the Frist Cohorts!:furious3:
:help:

CirdanDharix
11-10-2007, 17:15
Do you? that's odd. What is the exact error message? Also, did you extract all files to the correct directory?

EDIT: uploaded a new version, I still don't know what's causing your trouble but it might fix it. It also fixes a couple of minor bugs with governments; now if you tear them down and have no government in a province, you won't be stuck since it will script in an Anarchy-marker. The problem is that, in order to solve another problem linked to captured cities whereby you had greyed-out duplicates of all buildable governments, I had to remove the seamless upgrading from one government to another. That means you now have to plunge a province into Anarchy in order to change its government, and you'll have to tolerate the penalties of having only a temporary military admnistration while building the new government. I'm not sure the solution is better than the evil in this case...

Basileus Seleukeia
11-10-2007, 17:49
Could you perhaps host it on a second site? Rapidshare is causing problems with my browser.

CirdanDharix
11-10-2007, 17:56
is FileFront okay?

http://files.filefront.com/Datazip/;9010606;/fileinfo.html

Basileus Seleukeia
11-10-2007, 17:58
Oh, yes it is! Is this the version mixed with Fanatic's mod? Because that's the one I want to install.

Horst Nordfink
11-10-2007, 19:30
I'm a bit of a novice with computers, would it be possible to write a walk-through of what I need to do please? Just to make sure I don't mess this up completely.

Also, is there any worries about using this with MAAs city mod?

Basileus Seleukeia
11-11-2007, 17:57
Just found a way around the problem of my browser, and promptly started a KH Campaign. What thought did you pursue when you greatly increased the price the government buildings? Right now, the only thing a small faction can build at the start is a type 4 gov, and then that extremely expensive client ruler pops up and sucks 1000 minai a turn out of you treasury.
I don't think it is a good idea to make Argyraspides and Pezhetairoi recruitabe through military settler colonys, nor is it historical. Pezhetairoi and Argyrapides were a full-time soldier class that needed special training institutions, hence their limited availability. And you should include a manual on all the changes you have made, so that everybody knows what exactly they mean. Right now I'm quite confused: Can Makedonia and Epeiros also recruit Kleruchoi through their military colonys?
And one thing I wanted to mention: the anarchy building is messing with the old government building of the province: If you destroy the old government building liek you should, you can't build military government anymore (the building icon is greyed out). But nonetheless, you made a great mod, especially towrds unit balancing. I hope I was constructive with this post, and I wish you good luck on your way to perfect this project:2thumbsup:
Edit: Ekdromoi are slightly more expensive to recruit and to maintain than hoplitai or iphikratous hoplitai. I think that's not intended.
Edit2: It would not have hurt to tell us that you included 0-turn recruitment, especialy as it is a very important change that totally overthrows campaign balancing. Through this the AI is able to depopulate its citys very fast, and it encourages levy massing.

CirdanDharix
11-12-2007, 17:50
Just found a way around the problem of my browser, and promptly started a KH Campaign. What thought did you pursue when you greatly increased the price the government buildings?
It makes for a longer game rather than a blitz. The Gov 4 is meant to be crappy (since you haven't actually annexed the area to your state) but gives a quick and cheap way of occupying a region. If you want to expand far, you'll need alot of money to efficiently occupy land. That said, KH shouldn't be to hard--since the economic buildings are now more powerful, and Kh's cities are fairly built up, you should be able to get a decent economy going. After that, take it slow--the KH wasn't historically in a good position, remember that the alliance of city-states it represents was defeated by Makedonia and Athens was occupied a decade after the campaign starts, so you shouldn't be able to just bulldoze through everything. On the other hand, I'm playing a game as KH presently and I've killed Antigonos and two of his sons, and recaptured Corinth and Euboea within five years. So it's not impossible, you just need to disband a few units and/or raise taxes to the full, and build up your econ.


Right now, the only thing a small faction can build at the start is a type 4 gov, and then that extremely expensive client ruler pops up and sucks 1000 minai a turn out of you treasury.
Client rulers suck 1000Mnai out of the treasury each turn?!? :sweatdrop:
Are you certain of this?!? I swear I've never noticed it. never used to many of them either, though. If this is the case I'll see what can be done...this may be because they're using the Mercenary General units as bodyguards, I could change this to appropriate factional bodyguard units if they are to expensive.


I don't think it is a good idea to make Argyraspides and Pezhetairoi recruitabe through military settler colonys, nor is it historical. Pezhetairoi and Argyrapides were a full-time soldier class that needed special training institutions, hence their limited availability.
Granted, but AFAIK Pezhetairoi/Argyraspides were drawn from the landowner class, and in the East this meant military settlers had to be granted land first. Maybe I could put the recruitment of them back with the MIC, but require the military colonies (rather than specific provinces) to make them recruitable. If that would work, never tried making a building be a requirement for a unit before.

And you should include a manual on all the changes you have made, so that everybody knows what exactly they mean.
You're right, but originally I was just making tweaks for my own benefit, and then decided to release them..so i'm sorry, but I lost track of some changes.

Right now I'm quite confused: Can Makedonia and Epeiros also recruit Kleruchoi through their military colonys?
Yes, Klerouchoi only however. In a normal EB game they can recruit them in provinces that historically hosted the Diadochi's military colonies, so now they
can recruit them simply wherever they have military colonies.


And one thing I wanted to mention: the anarchy building is messing with the old government building of the province: If you destroy the old government building liek you should, you can't build military government anymore (the building icon is greyed out). I thought that was fixed when I removed the ability to upgrade from one building to another. :shame: I'll look into this.



Edit: Ekdromoi are slightly more expensive to recruit and to maintain than hoplitai or iphikratous hoplitai. I think that's not intended.
I'm still working on unit prices (and changing them quite drastically, though I'm still testing my latest changes), but I think this may be the case already in normal EB. That said, Ekdromoi Hoplitai are 200 per unit as opposed to 160 for the heavier kinds, so the unit has a whole might well end up more expensive even if individual soldiers are cheaper. I hope that makes sense.



Edit2: It would not have hurt to tell us that you included 0-turn recruitment, especialy as it is a very important change that totally overthrows campaign balancing. Through this the AI is able to depopulate its citys very fast, and it encourages levy massing.
I actually thought the AI would never take advantage of this :shame: :sweatdrop: I've never seen it mass produce units in a single turn, at least. It seems so easy to screw up the AI's already idiotic behaviour :wall: As for the levy massing, this is intentional--historically a lot of armies were rapidly raised from militias or even conscripts. As I mentioned, I'm still working on unit prices, and one of my goals is to encourage the disbandment of levies during peace-time, and their raising when threatened by war. The problem is that the AI is to stupid to disband its levies :no:

CirdanDharix
11-12-2007, 18:44
I'm a bit of a novice with computers, would it be possible to write a walk-through of what I need to do please? Just to make sure I don't mess this up completely.

Also, is there any worries about using this with MAAs city mod?
It won't work with MAA's city mod, since I've changed the same files as him.

Admetos
11-12-2007, 23:43
Actually, if you're using Fanatics latest version as a base for your mod, it will already contain the City Mod.

CirdanDharix
11-13-2007, 17:02
Actually, if you're using Fanatics latest version as a base for your mod, it will already contain the City Mod.
Actually, I used the version non-compatible with MAA's mod, so I had less stuff to overwrite as I changed both EDB and descr_regions.txt (the later to add a hidden resource for building Spartan governments) which the city mod depends on. I'm considering doing something also to restrict city growth (3+% in a three montsh is just amssive), but ultimately, I don't want the "historical straightjacket" effect of having only certain cities able to grow. Location plays a large part in a city's development, but so does politics, and if an insane player wants to have the Qarthadastim migrate to London (which has an excellent location, but was historically a backwater at the time), who am I to say he can't make it into the new centre of Phoenician power and a vibrant metropolis?

I'd particularly appreciate feedback on my new unit pricing. I've probably made some wrong calls, after all.

EDIT:, oh and I forgot, but I lowered the maintenance of mercenary generals to 1/3 of their normal body guard unit, since you're paying the general hismelf a hardcoded salary. However, merc generals now cost the princely sum of 150 talents to hire.

Basileus Seleukeia
11-13-2007, 20:01
150 Talents, how much Minai are that again? Can't remember right now...

Kepper
11-13-2007, 21:42
is possibel to use you mod it Spoils of Victory - a micromod, Konny's money script

CirdanDharix
11-14-2007, 17:10
Basileus Seleukeia: 150 talents = 9000 Mnai. It's alot of money. Of course, a gov IV comes with a free merc general, but he can't move.

Keeper: you can just stick the Spoils of Victory code into EBBS_script.txt and replace the EB mioney script with Konny's, if that's what you're asking.

EDIT: concerning the government building bug, I don't think it's possible to solve it permanently--you can either destroy the enemy government and anarchy, and wait one turn for the anarchy amrker to be replace; or you can desrtoy the government, save, and load, which seems to clear out the effects of the bug (don't overwrite your previous save, though--just in case); or you can just ignore it and never destroy the government. It's officially annoying the heel out of me.

Numahr
11-15-2007, 11:43
Nice job CirdanDharix.

I've seen that you include important negative "bonus" for your government buildings such as "taxable_income_bonus bonus -50".

Have you checked that they actually work in game? Sa far I've understood that negative bonus are broken. That woud defeat your whole government concept...

CirdanDharix
11-15-2007, 18:02
Hmm, well, having a province in Anarchy takes away most of its income, and tI do see a big difference between government types. I'll try to work out mathematically if the differences are exactly as planned or somehow attenuated, though--you can never be sufficiently certain.

fallen851
11-15-2007, 19:20
It also inflates the cost of even the weakest cavalry quite a bit, since horses are expensive to feed and look after.

Right, because grass and a rope are really expensive. The real cost associated with horses is the training, of the horse, and also the rider to be combat ready.

Numahr
11-16-2007, 21:47
I am still looking with interest at your files.

It seems that the file you uploaded does not include your new pricing system. I see that you reduced the recruitment time to 0 for all, but I do not see any other change in units cost...?

CirdanDharix
11-17-2007, 17:12
Nuhmar, couldn't you have posted this earlier? this is so embarassing, I left out the second link :inquisitive: :juggle2: :dizzy2: It's fixed now. The actual unit prices are set for Huge unit size, ebcause otherwise, they'd be way to small.

Numahr
11-17-2007, 19:01
It's OK CirdanDharix :)
Actually I checked again again and again before to post it...

I think I can confirm you that taxe penalties are broken, while trade penalties are OK. You can however, for type 4 governments, tweak the type 4 governor trait and add a tax penalty effect to it, this works well.

As for unit stats and cost, I will now have a closer a look at your system, it seems very innovative. I am afraid this may have bad consequences on the way AI will balance the composition of its stacks. Did you test this parameter? You know, the AI chooses what unit to build relying on their cost, and tweaking these may result in AI making unbalanced / unrealistic / not fun stacks.

CirdanDharix
11-18-2007, 16:13
So far, the AI is buillding fairly balanced stacks...it does however seem to favour smaller units more--i.e. the diadochi seem to build more thureophoroi and less phalanx units than before, although they still build pike battalions their armies are more diverse. Generally, levy units are now mixed in with higher-quality forces which is IMO more realistic than a stack with twenty elites. Cavalry is still getting built, but settled nations tend to avoid going cav-heavy; for some perhaps there isn't enough cavalry, but then it also means we avoid having Romans who field huge cavalry armies. Perhaps AI unit choice could be improved by increasing the size of some infantry units, though.

The problem with giving traits to the type IV governors is that they won't be faction-specific. I've made most Type IV governments the same, but soem factions have their specific variations. How badly are the tax penalties broken?

Beefy187
11-22-2007, 05:52
Is there any Mod which just include that two Type 1 governmet for KH thing? That would be awesome to have for my upcoming KH campeign

icydawgfish
11-22-2007, 06:17
Great work, and it looks very impressive. But is there any chance that a version will be made that is compatable with the city mod?

Beefy187
11-24-2007, 05:37
Started my KH campeign and loving it..

Just one question.. Which settlement can i build spartan type 1 government in besides Sparta?

Warlord 11
11-25-2007, 12:04
I have downloaded your mod and like it very much, but I have a couple of minor complaints.
First, while I like the economic system a lot (both that more developed cities make much more money as well as the relative costs of different units), I think that there may be a bit too much income relative to unit costs. In my KH game (admittedly on Medium difficulty) I control about 10 provinces, yet I have a fleet of some 1,500 ships, two full stacks (one made mostly of high quality troops, such as Spartan hoplites and cavalry), one half stack, significant garrison forces across my empire, constant construction in all provinces and I am still swimming in money. I realize that Hellas is likely one of the richest regions in the game, but it still seems slightly unbalanced.

Secondly, the ships seem to be somewhat unbalanced as well. The stronger ships tend to have many more ships per unit, yet cost only slightly more in upkeep, so it seems to me that the big ships are far more cost effective than small ships (unless you are only going to keep them around for a short while, but it seems that the relative recruitment/upkeep costs of most of them dissuade people from doing that). Perhaps larger ships should come in smaller quantities, but with similar upkeeps?

Finally, when I conquered Ambrakia (sp?), I destroyed the government and anarchy building like I had been doing in all the other cities I conquered. Yet, the next turn the anarchy building did not reappear, so I can't build a government there.

Again, I like the mod very much and am having a very good time playing it. I look forward to your attempt to lower growth rates without limiting city size. It may very well fix the first problem to some extent, as cities will tend to stay small and undeveloped for a lot longer, and thus one will make less money. Or perhaps you could increase build times to achieve a similar result. Or both?

About assimilation, could it be made so most of ones factional troops can be built in an assimilated city? In your example, if Carthage conquered London and made it into a thriving metropolis, could it be made so Carthage could recruit, say, Carthaginian Citizen Calvary? Perhaps after another long building called "Migration" or something?

CirdanDharix
11-27-2007, 17:09
First, i've updated the download--just added Crete to the provinces that can host a Spartan Agoge Klerouchy, and gave the two versions of the Thracian Prodromoi the same lance attack--previously the Getai had 4, and the regional/merc version had 3 (but was otherwise identical).


Beefy 187: Spartan Type I government should be available in Taras, Thermon, and now Crete if you have the latest download. If it doesn't show up, you may have to delete map.rwm, as it relies on a hidden resource.

Icydawgfish: Making my tweaks fully compatible with MAA's CityMod would be to difficult and not itneresting enough, though I'm working on my own solution to the problem of overpopulous cities, without the straightjacket approach of making only certain settlements able to reach a given size.

Warlord 11:
Well, I did intend to make a developed economy more powerful than in the regular EB, but I do seem to have made it possible to turn some cities into monstrous cash-cows. Part of the problem in linked to the RTW engine, namely, unit sizes: you're not going to have armies of 30,000 men marching around, so some form of compromise with realism has to found, especially since there's no way either to model hiring mercenaries only for a short fifty day campaign, for instance. Slowing city growth is at least part of the solution; other possibilities involve working on the value of trade goods, or turning up unit costs on the basis of one man representing several. I'd rather not have to reduce the quite large economic bonii I gave certain buildings, simply in order to maintain the difference between developped economies and backwaters, and to give the player (and even the AI) the chance to develop said backwaters.

Secondly, I didn't see the unit sizes for ships as a number of ships but as a number of fighting men (assuming the standard sailing complement, although a number of extra soldiers could be brought on board before major battles) for a small squadron (usually six ships). To be honest, it's deliberate that Pentekonterai aren't competitive when compared to Pentereis; I don't claim to be an expert but from what I've read, during the EB time period the triere itself was basically a "poor man's battleship", whereas any ship smaller was not worth considering as your navy's mainstay. The smaller ships (pentekonterai, biremes...) were only used as scouts, liaisons and for anti-piracy operations. Already at the time of Salamis, more than two hundred years before EB, pentekonterai were treated as negligible in big battles (Herodotos disregards them when giving the total strength of the fleets). So it would be unhistorical for pentekonterai, even many pentenkonterai, to be a viable, cost-effective option for your fleet's main line-of-battle ship. During the Hellenistic period, the workhorse of major navies was the pentere, so I suggest that if you want to build yourself into a first-rate naval power, you start gathering pentereis. It's only with ships larger than the pentere that, historically, "bigger=better" was brought into doubt.


Thirdly, I've just had a look at the code, and it seems I forgot Ambrakia in the script that regenerates anarchies. Rather than making a new download just for that, here's the code that needs to be added to EBBS_script.txt:

monitor_event SettlementTurnStart SettlementName Ambrakia
and not SettlementBuildingExists = anarchy
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov_feeder
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov4
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov3
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov2
and not SettlementBuildingExists = gov1
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govnomad
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govagoge
and not SettlementBuildingExists = govparthian

console_command create_building Ambrakia "anarchy"

end_monitor
When I get home I'll add this into the next downloadable version.

Fourthly, right now I'm experimenting with adding pop growth penalties to the unavoidable governor buildings, and it makes getting your cities huge much more challenging. I might increase the costs and build time on some buildings, as well.

And lastly, I think it's a good idea to make most units dependant, as far as possible, upon buildings and "political conditions" (materialised by buildings, of course), but I haven't tried it yet because I want to finish my ongoing KH campaign AAR ([shameless plug]https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95143[/shameless plug]) without such a major upheaval as a completely reworked recruitment system. Is it even possible to make a building (other than the barracks themselves!) a requirement for recruiting a unit? I haven't tried it yet.

Beefy187
11-28-2007, 00:57
Im only getting Democracy in all city except Sparte
Ill go delete my map.rwm

Cheers :2thumbsup:

Mouzafphaerre
11-28-2007, 03:58
.

Fourthly, right now I'm experimenting with adding pop growth penalties to the unavoidable governor buildings, and it makes getting your cities huge much more challenging. I might increase the costs and build time on some buildings, as well.

Awesome idea! :2thumbsup: The AI seems to upgrade too quickly -due to the pop and money boost from EBBS maybe- and that makes expansion into different culture land a great pain. While expansion by itself being pain is good ~D it forces the human player into blitzing; taking whatever before reaching the max town size.

So, while slowing pop growth and increasing the building time of the ridiculously indestructible palace buildings, adding law and happiness penalties in a fashion of enforcing town upgrades would make expansion both more stable and more challenging at the same time. :yes:
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Beefy187
11-28-2007, 04:03
Just one complaints

Assimilation currently takes 40 turn to build... Thats reduculously long... Could you reduce it to about 20 turns at least?:sweatdrop:

Other then that. Although I find KH a bit overpowered (which is good) im really loving your mini mod. Fantastic work :2thumbsup:

Warlord 11
11-28-2007, 05:27
Well, I did intend to make a developed economy more powerful than in the regular EB, but I do seem to have made it possible to turn some cities into monstrous cash-cows. Part of the problem in linked to the RTW engine, namely, unit sizes: you're not going to have armies of 30,000 men marching around, so some form of compromise with realism has to found, especially since there's no way either to model hiring mercenaries only for a short fifty day campaign, for instance. Slowing city growth is at least part of the solution; other possibilities involve working on the value of trade goods, or turning up unit costs on the basis of one man representing several. I'd rather not have to reduce the quite large economic bonii I gave certain buildings, simply in order to maintain the difference between developped economies and backwaters, and to give the player (and even the AI) the chance to develop said backwaters.
Don't get me wrong, I love that a major developed city makes vastly more than a backwater, I just think that total there may be a bit too much income. The relative incomes are great, in my opinion. I think making one man in-game representing several is a good solution.


Secondly, I didn't see the unit sizes for ships as a number of ships but as a number of fighting men (assuming the standard sailing complement, although a number of extra soldiers could be brought on board before major battles) for a small squadron (usually six ships). To be honest, it's deliberate that Pentekonterai aren't competitive when compared to Pentereis; I don't claim to be an expert but from what I've read, during the EB time period the triere itself was basically a "poor man's battleship", whereas any ship smaller was not worth considering as your navy's mainstay. The smaller ships (pentekonterai, biremes...) were only used as scouts, liaisons and for anti-piracy operations. Already at the time of Salamis, more than two hundred years before EB, pentekonterai were treated as negligible in big battles (Herodotos disregards them when giving the total strength of the fleets). So it would be unhistorical for pentekonterai, even many pentenkonterai, to be a viable, cost-effective option for your fleet's main line-of-battle ship. During the Hellenistic period, the workhorse of major navies was the pentere, so I suggest that if you want to build yourself into a first-rate naval power, you start gathering pentereis. It's only with ships larger than the pentere that, historically, "bigger=better" was brought into doubt.
If unit size represents the actual number of men on the ship, what is the reason for higher attack on bigger ships? I mean, very large ships might have artillery on them, but a man on a pentekonterai would fight just as effectively as on a bireme, right? I'm not sure how the game engine handles navel battles, so my thinking might be wrong, but in my mind it doesn't make sense.


Thirdly, I've just had a look at the code, and it seems I forgot Ambrakia in the script that regenerates anarchies. Rather than making a new download just for that, here's the code that needs to be added to EBBS_script.txt:
Thank you!


Fourthly, right now I'm experimenting with adding pop growth penalties to the unavoidable governor buildings, and it makes getting your cities huge much more challenging. I might increase the costs and build time on some buildings, as well.

And lastly, I think it's a good idea to make most units dependant, as far as possible, upon buildings and "political conditions" (materialised by buildings, of course), but I haven't tried it yet because I want to finish my ongoing KH campaign AAR ([shameless plug]https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95143[/shameless plug]) without such a major upheaval as a completely reworked recruitment system. Is it even possible to make a building (other than the barracks themselves!) a requirement for recruiting a unit? I haven't tried it yet.
Not sure about the possibility of a building being a requirement, but your ideas seem very good to me. Thank you for the mini-mod!

P.S. I like assimilation taking 10 years, personally. It shouldn't be something that you build just anywhere. In fact, I wouldn't mind it costing even more.

CirdanDharix
11-28-2007, 15:51
If unit size represents the actual number of men on the ship, what is the reason for higher attack on bigger ships? I mean, very large ships might have artillery on them, but a man on a pentekonterai would fight just as effectively as on a bireme, right? I'm not sure how the game engine handles navel battles, so my thinking might be wrong, but in my mind it doesn't make sense.


Actually, the higher the ship was above water then the more advantage the men on her deck had in a boarding action. It's easier to clear the enemy deck with javelins if you're higher than them, while your own ship's bullwarks will give you a greater measure of cover; and also, it's better to jump down onto their deck, than to have to climb up onto it. When the height difference becomes extreme (pentekontoros versus a triere or larger), jumping down can become quite risky, but then the smaller vessel's crew will have to find a way to attach ropes to the enemy ship, and then climb up them, over the bullwarks and then onto the deck--no mean feat when enemy marines are actively opposing your attempts to board them.

There's two other reasons for the attack and defence stats, as well; firstly, faster or more manoeuvrable ships had obvious advantages, and the bigger ships with more rowers tended to be faster, if not necessarily any more manoeuvrable. Secondly, boarding was not the only form of naval combat--ships could, and did, ram each other; bigger ships would have more kinetic energy and so could cause more damage when ramming, while being harder to sink (generally a ship would have no trouble sinking another of the same class, but a pentekonteros ramming a pentere is another matter). This is why I gave the big Celtic sailing ships low attack but good defence: no ram, but a very large and solid hull.

Warlord 11
11-30-2007, 04:58
Ah, I see. Thank you for the response. About buildings being requirements for recruitment, isn't that the way the reforms work? I'm not sure, but perhaps looking at how that works could help.

Mouzafphaerre
11-30-2007, 06:15
.
Having good units, maybe a general on-board adds a lot to the fighting power of your fleet. Maybe it's old information but I just learned it, when a Leisterion armada ambushed my first army going to Ireland. It was with a tie that they defeated and killed my boys. :pirate:

https://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6452/admiralelazunos192bcff5.jpg
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CirdanDharix
11-30-2007, 17:03
Awesome win, Mouzafphaerre! Also, it's a good thing I bases my numbers of men in naval squadrons on regular sailing complements, not the maximum number of troops that could be used for a big battle..since putting land troops onboard appears to work like it did in reality...

Also, I'm updating the download links. They're abit heavier because they included map.rwm files. New features include pop growth penalties through the annyongly indestructible governor's residence, and mroe expensive sanitation buildings, to make building large cities more challenging. Certain provinces have received +1 to their base farming level, because they supported, or realistically could have supported, very lagre cities during this period. Also, the province in which Utiqa is has been renamed, but I didn't change the city's name (Atiqa to Utiqa) because it was to much hassle, and the EB team must of had a good reason for the A rather than U. Finally, besides a few other tweaks, I've reduced the lethality of long pike phalanxes to match that of Iphikratean short pikes, and increased the mass of all soldiers fighting in a phalanx, whether traditional, Iphikratean or Makedonian; and the mass of cavalry horses (mass makes units better at pushing and harder to push). I hope TWFanatic will forgive me for messing with his phalanxes :sweatdrop:

Mouzafphaerre
12-01-2007, 03:53
.
Great! I'll try your tweakies in my next campaign. :yes: Thanks for the pop-growth penalties. :2thumbsup: It's sickening to see every Roman city with the Proconsular Palace and Large Stone stone walls 100 years into the campaign.

Btw, the above battle was a close defeat. ~:mecry:
.

icydawgfish
12-02-2007, 02:31
Could you perhaps upload this to filefront?

Warlord 11
12-02-2007, 07:33
I think that Syracuse doesn't have the anarchy script. I have added it into my verion using the format for Ambrakia, but I thought I would let you know.

CirdanDharix
12-03-2007, 17:18
Mouzaphaerre: ouch! I guess your fleet sank and you lost the army?

Warlord11:Okay, I'll look into it.

Icydawgfish:
http://files.filefront.com/costzip/;9181376;/fileinfo.html
It's the version with changed costs. if you want the other one, I can upload it as well.

Mouzafphaerre
12-04-2007, 03:04
.

Mouzaphaerre: ouch! I guess your fleet sank and you lost the army?
Aye! :gah2:

Whatever the maths (even 2:1) I always lose. That's partly why I'm resolving any brigand/pirate encounters with auto_win.

Is there a spy version of the auto_win command? The AI is doomed to kill my spies more than half of 93% missions and that's ever been since earliest vannila versions. (I shan't exploit, promise! ~D)
.

CirdanDharix
12-04-2007, 13:59
Have you turned the difficulty way up? Maybe that's it. I do agree with the spy thing, though--they're useless because they almost never successfully infiltrate cities. Even worse are assassins--you'd think Lysimachos the Killer, the best assassin alive, would have more than a 1% chance to kill some Roman nOOb camping in hostile territory with only a handful of bodyguards :(

Lysander13
12-04-2007, 19:39
I'm curious about the assimilation system employed by this mini-mod/add-on.
What is it exactly? Is it simply a building one must build that takes X amount of time before you can build your core Govt-I thru IV buildings?

CirdanDharix
12-05-2007, 14:21
It's actually two buildings--one "starts" the process and carries its fair share of penalties. The other ends the process and takes 40 turns to build, but will reverse the penalties and allow you to build any type of government.

Mouzafphaerre
12-05-2007, 15:55
.

Have you turned the difficulty way up?
M/M :gah2:

The maths of spies is always misleading. I don't attempt <50% chances but it's not rare to see -say- 60% ones manage to infiltrate while 93% gets them killed most of the time.

Fighting against the pirates is vain, unless you stack &#252;ber-ships and attack one-two fleet ones, which both is nigh impossible with EB economy and kills the immersion of reality. So, I've decided to clean them (and brigands) up with auto_win. (Brigands are pure annoyance, have no reasoning behind their spawning, and cause devastation.)
.

Basileus Seleukeia
12-05-2007, 20:17
I have started a Seleukid campaign with the newest version of your minimod and I have seen that I can't build any kind of regional barracks in my type 1 provinces. The standard EB Build-Tree for the AS depicts that they should be abel to build regional barracks up to the second level with the type ! government. Is that an oversight by the EB team or did you accidentally change it?

Lysander13
12-05-2007, 20:22
It's actually two buildings--one "starts" the process and carries its fair share of penalties. The other ends the process and takes 40 turns to build, but will reverse the penalties and allow you to build any type of government.
Out of curiosity, how many buildings have you added to the building tree in this mini-mod? did you perchance have to remove any current EB buildings to add your "assimilation" buildings?

CirdanDharix
12-09-2007, 16:36
Basileus Seleukeia: ah, that's my fault I think. It was an early idea of mine to make the two MIC lines more mutually exclusive, but that would require a big reworking of recruitment in general.

Lysander13: I've added four buildings IIRC, but they don't seem to have pushed any EB buildings off the EDB. Even the Barracks_Z is still being read.

J.Alco
12-18-2007, 13:18
This is another noob question, so I apologize in advance.

Is this mod compatible with TWFanatic's Fanatic’s First Cohort/Phalanx/Elephant/Chariot minimod? i.e, I can install both without any trouble? Or is there anything about the files I'll need to change when installing this mod?

Also, people seem to be mainly noting bugs in the campaign. There aren't any bugs in the custom battle menu right? I should be able to play a custom battle easily without any trouble?

Thanks.

CirdanDharix
12-20-2007, 16:51
J.Alco: there's a version which includes TWFanatic's minimod. AFAIK there aren't any bugs in the custom battle menu, if you miss a factional unit please notify me of it.

Warlord11: btw, I think I've found what was wrong with Syracuse--a reference to the internal name when it should have been the display name.


I've begun work on a new version, taking ideas from various other minimods--notably Pharnakes' assimilation minimod thread and the win conditions and steppe expansion threads on this forum.

Hax
12-21-2007, 01:13
Save game compatible?

Oh, and does it work with BI? I.E, does it change anything in the world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign folder?

Mouzafphaerre
12-21-2007, 13:02
.

Added assimilation system--assimilation of non-homeland privinces is very expensive and requires you put up with big penalties for a long time. But it allows you to build a Gov I once the process is complete.

Sorry if this has been discussed before but may I suggest that you modify the assimilation so that, after it's complete, you can build gov1 only in previous gov2 provinces and gov2 only in previous gov3 provinces;


also seperate govs 3 and 4 so that you can build gov4 everywhere but gov3 in a much narrower area;


make it impossible for all but steppe factions to build any government but gov4 in the steppe provinces;


add unavoidable unrest penalty to the steppe provinces if they are held by non-steppe factions;


add law bonus to gov3 to balance the distance to capital penalty but not gov4 to hinder crazy expansion?
.

cyberVIP
12-21-2007, 16:12
Ave!
PLease upgrade filefront link. Rapidshare is not good for me.

MiniMe
12-23-2007, 22:10
...make it impossible for all but steppe factions to build any government but gov4 in the steppe provinces...
This won't slow down non-steppe factions expansion into steppe.
Actually, this would do quite the opposite =)

Mouzafphaerre
12-24-2007, 00:16
.
Unlet them mics too!? :gah: ~:mecry:
.

Warlord 11
12-24-2007, 07:55
If you are having trouble with nomad factions sucking check out the second post here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96143 In my game in 227 BCE as Pahlava with those changes, the nomadic factions are doing much better.

Mouzafphaerre
12-24-2007, 19:13
.
Aye, horse archers autocalc problem. Seen that. :yes:
.

Wolfman
12-29-2007, 21:10
Question. Is this compatible with the city mod?

CirdanDharix
01-03-2008, 18:05
CyberVIP: http://files.filefront.com/costzip/;9181376;/fileinfo.html is still current. Sorry for the slow response.

Mouzafphaerre: separating type 3 and type 4 govs is not something I'd care for. It would mean you could only annex a pre-defined area to your empire, and the rest of the map you could only rule through vassal states... making assimilation happen by degrees is a rather good idea, actually. You could have a half-way stage where you can build a Gov II and then go on to complete the process to Gov I status. Sort of like the gradual spread of full Roman citizenship under the Republic and then the Empire. As to making the steppes harder to hold for non-nomads, I am looking into it...as of now I think a "this is THE STEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" marker-building, complete with Gerard Butler kicking a "civilised pansy" down a well, ought to scare all civilised factions away. If that fails, the marker could be given large penalties to public order, trade, etc, for the civilised factions to make the province both harder to hold and less valuable; and of course, large horse-archer armies could spawn by script as well. But really, I think the shouting and kicking ambassadors down wells ought to do the trick.

Mouzafphaerre
01-04-2008, 05:02
.
:laugh4:

I understand your point about gov3 and gov4, no big deal really. :yes:

As for banishing the sedentaries from the steppes, to sum up what I've already posted, I suggest denying all but the transitional military governments and any mics; any buildings such as temples, irrigation etc. that add happinass/law bonus, actually any buildings at all (no town no building - roads may be built); adding unremovable disloyalty/unrest.
.

CirdanDharix
01-04-2008, 15:36
Well, if you look at it, it wasn't impossible to build a city in the steppes...eventually civilisation did spread to the steppes, although most of the cities built there came two thousand years after the EB-period and, by and large, they still aren't densely populated (although some regions that would have been steppes in EB's timeframe, would no longer be considered as such). However, although it didn't happen, there was a population imbalance in Hellenistic Greece which would have furnished a ready supply of immigrants to any mass colonisation/urbanisation programme. In reality excess population was dealt with by exposing unwanted babies, constant war, occasional famines and then the Roman conquest; but the point of EB is to re-write history rather than re-creating its most sordid aspects (well, unless you're a rabid Hellenophobe who takes sadistic joy in watching the self-destruction of Hellas).

However, sedentaries should need something extra to build a city in the steppes--it shouldn't just be "We are in control, ergo this is now civilised lands".

Mouzafphaerre
01-05-2008, 04:23
.
The point is, in your words, it happened two thousands yers later, when Russia invaded and colonised those parts. ~;) Still, you can think about something like the assimilation, yet much harder, much more expensive and taking much longer. But I would prefer the steppeland remain like &#202;r&#233;mos unless controlled by Saka-Rauka, Sauromatae or Pahlava. ~:)
.

J.Alco
01-10-2008, 16:49
J.Alco: there's a version which includes TWFanatic's minimod. AFAIK there aren't any bugs in the custom battle menu, if you miss a factional unit please notify me of it.

Hi. I've been trying out the custom battles for a few days now (been concentrating on the campaign, no problems there) and a few factions are missing units in the custom battle menu.

F'r instance: Romani have Samnite infantry, but not Samnite heavy infantry (i.e Samniti Milites). KartHadast don't have Ligurian infantry, even though they can recruit said unit in the campaign as a Regional (the unit was available to them before I downloaded the minimod via Filefront).

I think there are a few more cases with other factions, mainly them missing a factional or regional unit, but I can't really of any else for now. As this is really a minor issue, is there any way I could fix this myself?

Aside from that, no real problems. Thanks.

CirdanDharix
01-10-2008, 19:22
Hmmm...if there's a unit you really miss, you can find it in the EDU and cut and paste it to a higher position within the file. You might shove another unit out of sight, however.


P.S.: by Samniti Milites, you mean the Samniti Milites and not the Pedites Extraordinarii, right? Because I'm certain the Extraordinarii should be showing up.

J.Alco
01-10-2008, 19:45
P.S.: by Samniti Milites, you mean the Samniti Milites and not the Pedites Extraordinarii, right? Because I'm certain the Extraordinarii should be showing up.

The Extraordinarii ARE showing up, no problems there. It's just the Samniti Milites which are MIA. I am kinda missing them so I'll try the EDU cut/paste thing. Just wondering, is there any way for me to 'choose' a unit which I don't normally use in custom battles (like for example, Pantodapoi) and 'replace' it with one of those missing units (in this case, the Samniti Milites) ?

As always, thanks.

CirdanDharix
01-11-2008, 17:13
Well, there's a limit of 100 units that will be shown for custom battles, and the EDU is read from the top down. So basically, you can view how high the unit is in the EDU as being the priority the game assigns to placing it in the custom battle menu; so if you want to make sure a unit appears, you place it higher in the EDU, if you don't care about it appearing, you can move it to the bottom.

J.Alco
01-13-2008, 13:50
OK, what am I doing wrong? I'm going to the EDU (both, actually, the one that says 'mp custom edu' and the one that says 'sp game backup' or something like that). I'm looking at the units, and I'm placing the missing unit (Samniti Milites) higher up in the EDU i.e, nearer the top. At one point I took the whole Italic Units section, with the Milites at the top of said section, and placed it damn near the top of the EDU, just beneath the ship units section, and I'm still seing no change in the custom battle menu unit selection. At one point I thought that maybe I was going about it the wrong way, and thought that the units nearer the bottom were the ones with higher priority (the EDU has to be read top-down after all) but after changing the units to the bottom, there's still no change.

I'm stumped to tell the truth, but then, I was never much good with technical stuff. I might need an Idiot's guide :embarassed:

CirdanDharix
01-13-2008, 16:19
It's because you're fiddling with the wrong EDU, i think. Since you're not changing EDUs before playing a custom battle (right?), you only need to fiddle with the one called export_descr_units.txt.

J.Alco
01-13-2008, 19:23
It's because you're fiddling with the wrong EDU, i think. Since you're not changing EDUs before playing a custom battle (right?), you only need to fiddle with the one called export_descr_units.txt.

The problem is there are 2 EDUs, that I have found, called export_descr_unit. One is found in the EB folder, just opening it (I have to open a file called 'sp game edu backup') and the other is found in the Data folder. There are differences between the two in how the units are arranged (e.g, the one in Data has a section for EB mercenary/regional units near the bottom, which the other does not).

What I do in those folders is I cut and paste all the information on the unit I want and place it nearer the top (going up) of its section i.e with the folder in Data I placed the Samniti Milites at the top of the section marked mercenary/regional units. After I have fiddled with the folder I save the changes and exit back to my desktop, after which I launch EB and play a custom battle, and that is where I notice that the units available to a faction in single player custom battle haven't changed.

What's wrong with what I'm doing here? Are both those EDUs the wrong ones and is the 'real' one (the one that will change the custom battle unit selection) in a different folder that I haven't looked in? What do you usually do when you want to change units for custom battles? :help:

EDIT
Allright, it's all been figured out and now there's no problems with the EDU. Thanks for all the help everyone. Dharix, if there's any other problem with your mod, I'll let you know, though so far I'm not finding any other trouble.

V.T. Marvin
01-22-2008, 09:35
Thanks Cirdan, excellent mod! However, I think that you have a bit overshot with "making buildings more costly but more rewarding". Playing as Pahlava in clean EB 1.0 I get to know how it feels to be really poor and poor I was indeed. The more pride I took for every humble building built and every cheap unit trained. Those were the times!:beam:
Now with your tweaks, not only I have absolutely no problem with money, but also the 0-turn-recruitment makes things even easier: I do not need large standing armies or strong garrisons to protect me from unexpected AI attack. All I need are spies and watch-towers to provide early warning. Army could be than called up as needed.

I would suggest to (1.) lower the tax income bonuses a bit and (2.) leave 0-turn-recruitment only for units with "untrained" attribute (representing levy militia) and give back 1-turn-recruitment to all other ("trained" and "highly trained")
I am going to make these changes myself, but I do not want to mess up my current campaign. Are changes in EDU and EDB savegame-compatible?

Just to be sure - I do not want to criticize. Overall, I like your mod very much :2thumbsup:

Lysander13
01-22-2008, 20:51
The problem is there are 2 EDUs, that I have found, called export_descr_unit. One is found in the EB folder, just opening it (I have to open a file called 'sp game edu backup') and the other is found in the Data folder. There are differences between the two in how the units are arranged (e.g, the one in Data has a section for EB mercenary/regional units near the bottom, which the other does not).

What I do in those folders is I cut and paste all the information on the unit I want and place it nearer the top (going up) of its section i.e with the folder in Data I placed the Samniti Milites at the top of the section marked mercenary/regional units. After I have fiddled with the folder I save the changes and exit back to my desktop, after which I launch EB and play a custom battle, and that is where I notice that the units available to a faction in single player custom battle haven't changed.

What's wrong with what I'm doing here? Are both those EDUs the wrong ones and is the 'real' one (the one that will change the custom battle unit selection) in a different folder that I haven't looked in? What do you usually do when you want to change units for custom battles? :help:
The EDU your looking for is in mp custom game edu folder and IIRC you have to rename the text file in this folder to export_descr_unit.txt. Copy/paste this edu into your EB/data folder ( make sure you have a backup of your campaign EDU ) click yes when prompted to overwrite and you should be good to go.The unit your looking for should be there. If not I'm fairly certain you can add it to this EDU and get it to show up with no problems. It should be there however...unless this mod has made a lot of changes to the EDU in the sense that it has taken away certain units that would normally be found in the regular EB edu's.
@ V.T. Marvin
The text changes you want to make are save game compatible. You just may want to clear any units or buildings you have qouqed up first.

Ymarsakar
01-22-2008, 23:50
The problem with the custom game is due to the fact that for EB to allow one faction to recruit so many auxiliary and factional units, it has to add "ownership" to the unit to that faction. This causes the unit spam you see on the custom battle setup screen. Meaning, what you see in the custom map setup is every unit that a specific faction "owns", which maxes out the load. Thus not allowing you to see all of a faction's factional units.

EB put out a different EDU file, with the same units, but with only ownership of faction specific units and regional units. That, as noted before, is in the custom mp folder.

CirdanDharix
01-23-2008, 16:23
Lysander13 and Ymarsakar: actually, one of my changes has been to reorder the EDU so you don't need to switch. At least, I though all the needed units were showing up.

J.Alco: either i'm confused, or you have the right file :shame: an alternate way to 'clean up' the EDU for custom battles (and to check if you've got the right file) is to add the no_custom attribute to a unit that you don't want any faction to use in custom battles, preferably a unit that's as high up in the EDU as possible. If it still shows up afterwards, you know you've got the wrong file.

V.T. Marvin: yes, the changes of which you speak are save-game compatible, but you should clear your unit recruitment queues before saving as it might cause weirdness otherwise.

Regarding balance, I'm afraid I may have underestimated the consequences of changing the costs and economy overmuch, as the AI, with its legendary incompetence, is less able to take advantage of this.

The Wicked
02-02-2008, 12:42
The eb tweaks can be used with https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95664 and donot cange the schiltrom and spear wall fomations from te units?

Aper
03-08-2008, 20:01
Hi CirdanDharix your mod is great, but are you still working on it or is this a final release? I'm playing it as Baktria, but I have a problem: anarchy don't respawn in Alexandreia-Eschate, even if files seems to be fine... Can you take a look into this? Thanx!