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Maksimus
11-08-2007, 02:08
FINAL MOD


for any questions/support please feel free to e-mail me at: petrovicvladan9@gmail.com

2021 Files

https://mega.nz/#!sJBmDKTJ!-Mp83KyGx1dKoC8_Bax2I2IyZCd6OBhZ7VB9vgceNZs

Key:

I SUGGEST http://www.7-zip.org/ FOR UNZIP

Run EAEM.lnk to launch - ADJUST THE TARGET LINE BEFORE LAUNCH


How to adjust the target line of your EB.exe - In Our Case EAEM.ink
>Go to EB shortcut - left clck on the shortcut and chose properties - then - change the Target by copy-paste method

"<drive letter>:\<directory path you've installed RTW into>\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err -nm -noalexander
"...\Rome - Total War\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err -nm -noalexander

I have been fan and developer of RTW since the start, this will be my final major update, anything after this would be tweaks.

Mods adjustment go far beyond any other.

STEAM INSTRUCTIONS:

1. Unpack the zip
2. Go to your local install folder for the RTW Alexander Steam game - if you're not sure where this is then open Steam, go to Library, right-click Rome: Total War - Alexander, go to Properties > Local Files tab > Browse Local Files
3. Backup the contents of this folder, just in case
4. Select all of the files from the unpacked zip, and copy into the RTW-Alexander steam install folder, overwriting those currently there
5. Go back into Steam, Library, right-click Rome: Total War - Alexander, go to Properties > General tab > Set Launch options
6. Copy the following into the box: -mod:eb -show_err -nm -noalexander and click OK

Play the game as normal

PLEASE POST UR HEROIC VICTORIES AND EMPIRES I WILL BE MAKING CUSTOM CHANGES FOR THE BEST!

overweightninja
11-08-2007, 02:36
Sounds good, I've been thinking about installing with Alex but I have to mess around making a second install first. A few questions:

Any stability problems?
Any faction progress information?
How far have you progressed in your campaign?
How's the diplomacy looking?


Cheers

Maksimus
11-08-2007, 02:55
Sounds good, I've been thinking about installing with Alex but I have to mess around making a second install first. A few questions:

Any stability problems?
Any faction progress information?
How far have you progressed in your campaign?
How's the diplomacy looking?


Cheers

You should try it by the list above! Still I will be updating this thread regulary begining from today with pictures of campaign and AI gamplay:juggle2:

Answers!

EB 1 on Alex.exe is the most stable of all *exe that for EB (that is RTW or BI). It has less studs than using RTW.exe or BI.exe, the easy fllow the AI goes with on lower-end demandings for your CPU.. And you don't need to wait 5 minutes for your Hard-drive to get back to life after you exit the game! I am sure SEGA had their work on AI making it less demanding and faster and at the same time - much smarter and stable!

I can say that progression is very nice.. I played two campaigns, but, I have tested the AI by playing about an hour 'clicking the end turn' with Casse! That is - until THE REBELS ATTACKED ME AND DESTROYED CASSE! - I think that is something that is not happening so often! Other factions are spreading and grouping theri forces before a siege (sou you can forget 4 units per siege on VH from AI on ALX.exe). For example - Pontos is spreading from the start to Sinop and to the North and Black Sea, Spain is half in hands of Lusitanians, Armenia is spreading and Baktria and Carthage... From the start! So with Alex.exe the whole EB balance is in probs.. We know that EB should be played in a certan way - but that is made due to RTW.exe engine - that is slow and 'ugly' compared to ALX.exe or BI even... so

I'll Post later :charge:

Leão magno
11-08-2007, 03:12
Unfortunetly no Alexander.exe for me... nt even BI.exe, anyway, it is intersting, have you noticed any naval assaults activities???? Try playing a Carthaginian game and see the Romans behaviour... is it more agressive towards Sicily and the islands (Arse and Karali?)?

PershsNhpios
11-08-2007, 03:18
I have a question; is Alexander.exe so good that the AI contemplates the meaning of life itself?

If not, is it really worth it?

Hey that all sounds just like my campaign!
I'm playing the Casse with BI.exe - the AI has done just that - golly gumdrops Makibus you have found a winner!
I say we congregate here tomorrow at 0600 hours and present him with a medal, I think he deserves some sort of reward for giving us gameplay where the Makedonian navy follows the fleader!

Even if that is the only new addition - 'tis surely an honest and worthy one!

Maksimus
11-08-2007, 04:46
I have a question; is Alexander.exe so good that the AI contemplates the meaning of life itself?

If not, is it really worth it?

Hey that all sounds just like my campaign!
I'm playing the Casse with BI.exe - the AI has done just that - golly gumdrops Makibus you have found a winner!
I say we congregate here tomorrow at 0600 hours and present him with a medal, I think he deserves some sort of reward for giving us gameplay where the Makedonian navy follows the fleader!

Even if that is the only new addition - 'tis surely an honest and worthy one!
Ok, I am just now making a coffe break.. And I must say I am amaized!!!
And not just about AI! I am so amaized with my EB 1 stability and fast-fllow!

The campaign and battle game run MUCH, MUCH faster! they are stable.. I could svear that my vanilla RTW witho no patches runs just a bit sllower than this! Realy.. I had no CTDs at all by now and I play on VH and fight couple of battles per turn -- like, In my EB 1 based on RTW.exe I had to have atleast 1 CTD after some battle.. but it seems that ALEX.exe is moch mouch better then we all think!

Let's say.. I never played Alex vanilla, but I am sure that 90% of people here did not.. so they could not know what Alex is - it is many times better that RTW and Bi.. the stability and preformance....

For example... I have A high-end system ..Cor2Duo.. ASus8800gst 2 gigs of Geil ultar ram on 800- so I PLAY ON MAX settings all the time... AND you know what! - The first time I had NO STUDS or --sloows at all are now with Alex.exe
Belive me..I palyed just today with my Rtw.exe and nothing changed on my PC since!

AND ABOUT DIPLOMACY! I belive that a good sign is - I took Pella and Demetrias in my first turn! You know .. with elephant on VH.. so then in my next turn I send a diplomat in
Corintos to ask Ceasfire, Trade Rights, saying I will attack and I ask for 5000 minaiI! AND THEY SAID YES! - I think that is very good, in EB 1 based on RTW you could never get that aggrement even if they have only one city left!
That is definetly better Diplomacy! ANd AGonatas sailed somwere!

must go now.. I am besidging Athens in 272 .. will be in touch:yes:

antisocialmunky
11-08-2007, 04:56
Test more plz.

brymht
11-08-2007, 05:05
Can anyone else confirm this please?

Also, does Alex support the same formations BI does? (shield_wall, shieldtrom, swimming)

pseudocaesar
11-08-2007, 05:36
Can anyone else confirm this please?

Also, does Alex support the same formations BI does? (shield_wall, shieldtrom, swimming)

No i dont think it does.

Mr Durian
11-08-2007, 07:28
will i be able to continue with my saved game?

Pharnakes
11-08-2007, 10:04
Should be able to. At least you can on BI, so i'm 99.99% sure you can on alex.exe

Maksimus
11-08-2007, 10:26
Ok, I will test more... but you know... I am in the middle of my campaign wit Epiros.. And I fight a lot so I am in 271 after the Battle of Rome...

I promise... I will test separatly with Casse during the day and will post here..
It's just that I have to install my WinVista now:wall: .. so I will post later..:smash:

I will keep this thread open.. And some of you people could test also.. If he has Alex.. if not.. I will for all of you.. but later :yes:
I will even upload my files that work so you can just copy-paste them.. or mybe I will make a setup for this.. But the point is for you to see the 'catch' because EB 1.1 is under way so.. you can use Alex.exe even after EB 1.1!

Zarax
11-08-2007, 12:39
Alex has been reported to be better on the diplomacy side with less backstabbing (ironically I must say as the game was shipped without diplomats) and some say with slightly better battlefield AI.
I think I will try a shot as well provided I can recover my key...

Little Legioner
11-08-2007, 12:41
Pls upload Maksimus. :yes:

Zarax
11-08-2007, 13:35
First report:
with Alex it seems to be marginally faster, just started a Pontus campaign

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-08-2007, 13:35
does phalanxes still breaks apart when they attack another phalanx like in RTW?

iamphet
11-09-2007, 07:15
Loading is way faster indeed. I did not see much improvement over AI turn timing (75-80 sec vs. 90-95).
But personally I'm not sure that CA broke nothing in Alexander :laugh4: We are all aware of literally breaking changes introduced by RTW patches.

Maksimus
11-09-2007, 08:18
Pls upload Maksimus. :yes:
ok ok ok.. I will.. I just have to try my Vista on it and I will confirm that all is ok:yes:

First report:
with Alex it seems to be marginally faster, just started a Pontus campaign
Very Nice! Did you follow instructions mentioned above? Just so you can confirm that it works so others would have clear ground on Alex.

Loading is way faster indeed. I did not see much improvement over AI turn timing (75-80 sec vs. 90-95).
But personally I'm not sure that CA broke nothing in Alexander We are all aware of literally breaking changes introduced by RTW patches.
So we have two + me confirmed opinions on speed! Right? Just test some and post here so we have all at one place

Maksimus
11-09-2007, 08:27
does phalanxes still breaks apart when they attack another phalanx like in RTW?
No, I am playing Epeiros and I had no such issues - I think that I have screenshots of one macedonian phalanx attacking mine when we fought in Demetrias.. Will post.. but I just don't have time now - sorry:shame:

Zarax
11-09-2007, 13:38
ok ok ok.. I will.. I just have to try my Vista on it and I will confirm that all is ok:yes:

Very Nice! Did you follow instructions mentioned above? Just so you can confirm that it works so others would have clear ground on Alex.

So we have two + me confirmed opinions on speed! Right? Just test some and post here so we have all at one place

Instructions worked fine, AI seems less backstabbish as well.
The only gripe I have with Alex exe is that it doesn't support anything BI related, including hording.
It's a shame because I was already thinking about Alex-XGM...

overweightninja
11-09-2007, 13:44
will i be able to continue with my saved game?

I tried to reload a saved game from use with the BI.exe and got a CTD.
Works fine with a new campaign.
So no don't count on it :(

Maksimus
11-09-2007, 16:18
Ok..
Can anyone confirm that save-game will work from RTW.exe to Alex.exe?
I would .. but I just got some unexpected probs on my h-drive:whip:
so I have no save games... I will have to start over again

king hannibal
11-09-2007, 17:55
hi I've got a roman one that's working fine on alex.exe I'm ownly early on in it though 250 bc or something

thanks Alex.exe modders

Sarkiss
11-09-2007, 18:00
the feature when you double click a unit card on the battle field and camera promptly moves to the unit is broken in Alex. is it still so in your Alex EB campaigns?

Zarax
11-09-2007, 18:55
It's partially broken, you need to not move the mouse while it zooms.

fallen851
11-09-2007, 19:11
Is it really that much faster with the Alex.exe?

Gask
11-09-2007, 19:52
CTD for my RTW save as well.

So I made a new campaign and the wait between turns is still ~90 seconds, just as it was without alex. The campaign map still lags to hell if I try to move it around with the arrow keys instead of mouse and all that good stuff.

I cannot comment on improved AI as all I care about is performance at this point since the lag jump from the last eb version to 1.0 is quite large for me.

Maksimus
11-10-2007, 00:54
:yes:
Is it really that much faster with the Alex.exe?

It is.. Even If you have some average or low-end CPU and soft* system!

So.. I tought that om my old PC it realy does not matter - that is, EB on RTW.exe or on Alex.exe I tought It was the same. But, no - even on my Celeron/WinXP or on my C2Duo/64Vista EB on Alex wprks! - ofcourse it goes much faster on my new PC - just think of it.. Alex has much improvements you should check the official site and review of Alex.. much can be found there

Ludens
11-10-2007, 12:51
Instructions worked fine, AI seems less backstabbish as well.
The only gripe I have with Alex exe is that it doesn't support anything BI related, including hording.
How about the tactical and strategical A.I.? Are they doing better?

Maksimus
11-10-2007, 14:11
In my battles against Rome and Makedonia with Epeiros I could not have any resting place on battlefield.. do I use VH settings, but still, In my EB based on RTW.exe - there were often situations when AI would not move..
So..you could just flank it and kill it with your archers - after a couple of those stupid AI responses I switch to Alex.. And I had no probs with that any more!

Anyway. We could all notice that sometimes on EB 1 RTW based game you would realy have to hope that AI would group his army and then go into conquest - now (with Alex) it is an essence! So even Seleucids are grouping their armies and march to Aegypt and vice versa .. I am going to post some pictures of it (eventualy):whip:

Aleks_Born
11-10-2007, 16:58
Can anyone upload chat_filter.san and RomeTW-ALX.exe on megashare.com or rapidshare.com... Please!

Zarax
11-10-2007, 17:05
That would be uttelry illegal...

mcantu
11-10-2007, 21:57
That would be uttelry illegal...

why? its not an exe file...

people ask for and receive vanilla RTW/BI EDUs, DMBs. etc all the time...

Zarax
11-10-2007, 21:59
RomeTW-ALX.exe is the alex executable...

Maksimus
11-11-2007, 02:22
Zarax.. come on man.. Upload some of your campaign if you can target some AI moves that are 'new' or at lest some opinion we can all comment :pirate2: ..
I would .. but the way I play is just ..'fight all the time and don't end your turn often'.. so I don't have much pictures.. :no:

Maksimus
11-11-2007, 02:31
Pls upload Maksimus. :yes:

I did not answer or upload the files because if I do you will have to hand-delete some folders - because 'imperial_campaign' that is renamed with 'Alexander' can not owerwriten - it can just be renamed.. so sorry:shame:
You are going to have to follow the instructions..

but have a baloon!:balloon2:

:belly: and a dancer! that should be a motivation to do it manualy:yes:

Raidvvan
11-11-2007, 02:36
I tried it too, but I did not have BI so I just installed Alex over RTW 1.5 and used the tricks in the first post to start EB. Technically, it works great, no crash in 30 something in-game years.
The tactical battles seem more interesting, but the strategic game killed me. I started with the Sweboz and I was pretty OK, until one turn, in the 230s, I attacked one of those huge armies of Eleutheroi with two silver chevrons, lead by one guy called Sakes, or something. I fight the battle, I win, but with 50% losses. Then I siege the city. Next turn, what do you think? A full stack of veterans/elite Eleutheroi attacks me from the back, lead by, guess who, Sakes. Never happened to me in RTW 1.5, so Alex falls over the edge of my hard drive, back to RTW for me.

Maksimus
11-11-2007, 04:13
Well, the Ai is good allright.. but I got my CTD on Alex after this~:pissed:
https://img442.imageshack.us/img442/8351/romefinallpk7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Must win again :shame:

Elthore
11-11-2007, 04:26
theres no way we can resume a BI game with this though eh? not even messing with that map.rwn or something file

Maksimus
11-11-2007, 05:13
I think that I am not sure at all.. I would like if someone from the EB team would pop-up here and say a word about that..
Maybe there are ways.. but I don't know them yet:no:

Thaatu
11-11-2007, 10:46
I'd imagine a BI save won't work on Alex. About the EB team's advice on this, I don't know if any of the members even own ATW.


The tactical battles seem more interesting, but the strategic game killed me. I started with the Sweboz and I was pretty OK, until one turn, in the 230s, I attacked one of those huge armies of Eleutheroi with two silver chevrons, lead by one guy called Sakes, or something. I fight the battle, I win, but with 50% losses. Then I siege the city. Next turn, what do you think? A full stack of veterans/elite Eleutheroi attacks me from the back, lead by, guess who, Sakes. Never happened to me in RTW 1.5, so Alex falls over the edge of my hard drive, back to RTW for me.
I think that one is actually a EB 1.0 feature to make conquering the Alps difficult, time consuming and not worth it. I wouldn't switch back because of it.

overweightninja
11-11-2007, 22:10
My custom battles no longer work, when I go to start a battle it just dumps me back to the faction selection screen, anyone else getting this?

Maksimus
11-11-2007, 23:46
My custom battles no longer work, when I go to start a battle it just dumps me back to the faction selection screen, anyone else getting this?
Yes, it is just 'missed' :shame: in my post to get Alex working.. I think I will find a way and edit the first post
note: I am actualy sure the custom are going to work - the pattern of edits are the same as on BI.exe - will work on it!:yes:

overweightninja
11-11-2007, 23:51
Yes, it is just 'missed' :shame: in my post to get Alex working.. I think I will find a way and edit the first post
note: I am actualy sure the custom are going to work - the pattern of edits are the same as on BI.exe - will work on it!:yes:

Great I'll find the steps for BI and just adjust for alex then, cheers!

Maksimus
11-12-2007, 02:15
Sorry.. I just can't fix the custom battle bug! :thumbsdown:

But I have uploaded my files that are needed to play EB 1 on Alex.exe
There is some things aded.. you wont get a CTD when entering Custom battle - but you wont be able to play custom
sorry :balloon2:



It is FIXED!

Maksimus
11-12-2007, 04:47
Well, I am playing for a while now on Alex.. I can't tell you more on AI based on te lands it has - because I play more battles then turns, so I am in 268 bc.
Destroyed Macedon, Romans and fighting for Sparta curently (had some probs in battle CTDs when I lost a 4 turns loading game without the option to activate Eb script)

And I am very happy that Alex is more challenging than BI ot RTW.. far more actually
but.. The battles are very hard .. realy.. I am palying RTW 4 years now so belive me.
I just had one where I had to fight about 5000-6000 Macedonians with my 3500 .. And I was phalanx defending.. my god!:duel:

Anyway.. The AI on Alex.exe especially on battles is far more complex.. by my opinion. Do I use VH settings, this is realy too hard..

And I strongly belive that the whole EB 1 gamplay balance is in serious trouble if played on better AI - such as Alex..:whip:

Some and I think most of unit balances come in in question when played on Alex.. For example again, The cavalry and your generals are basicly uselles in Battle - and that is no joke...
With 4 Epeiros generals you cant rundown one hoplite unit. And I understand that horsmen are no suitable to fight for a long time standing in against infantry - but this is just TO MUCH (I will post some pictures next time I capture the moment) And this has nothing to do with VH settings I tried it on Medium so It is a matter of Unit balance.. On Alex, it seams that VH settings are MUCH harder then on RTW!
Now , the EBBS srcript is realy making one unrealistic and unwanted expirience. :gah:

I definetly support and recommend some mods that alter the EB 1 gamplay dinamic if used wit ALX -
For example: Mods that are lowering the costs and maintaince of units and some that are making resources more valuable
Because the way EB 1 is based now (on RTW.exe) - is just not design for harder AI like in Alex (compared to RTW).. Play a whilie and you will see!:shame:

Redmeth
11-12-2007, 09:16
I understand CBs don't work, what about historical battles, do they work?

And you should play H/M, also don't base your assumptions of the first years as Epeiros the first turns are full of hard fought battles. but once you get Greece you start rolling in dough.. and that's without destroying Rome (which you did). So holding down 2 fronts (Italy and Greece) and winning is already over-achieving IMO...

I played an Epeiros campaign started out by letting Taras rebel and conquered Greece (some very hard battles the first few years). After that I got to making so much money that I felt it was too easy.

I'm thinking about giving Alex a try when I decide to start a campaign and play.

Maksimus
11-12-2007, 11:57
No.. Historic does not work ... I just got a CTD. I think it could be fixed like in EB 1 for BI.exe but I haven't moded that .. maybe it's just some folder names and descriptions wee need to change so It works.. I leave that to people that did make custom/historic battles work on BI.exe

And about that other thing:whip:

here is my VH/VH campaign
https://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6533/52571137ke3.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

I am just now in a way to destroyed KHellenon in my 266 bc.. I went to Rhodos. . .and yet i missed some turns (like 2 years becaus of some CTDs after battles)..
Basicly.. My campaign is based on great and fast victories, In my first turn I took Pella and Demetrias .. so you understand how much battles mean to me..:shame:

Still.. I an strongly convinced that cavarly is realy weak.. I mean really.. I asked some EB members about it and they just told that that is the way it should be...
I must say, the AI is very well balanced on Medium and on VH settings, you can always win - like me.. But you can not, use ganeral in charge at all .. exept if enemy is fighting my phalanx..
In my battle of Sparta It took 3 of my upgraded generals to NOT kill a single peltast unit that si wrong :no: .. no? Well. .. I think there is muchhistoric proof to put cavalry a little up the latter. And when I fought at Rome.. my god.. My generals were 'sent off' - you know leaving infantry finish the job - generals are just to weak for battles balance fo ALX
i will do so when EB 1.1 comes out, at least giving all cavarly 2 hit points

But hey! Try it with Alex.exe it realy is harder:yes:

HISTORIC and CUSTOM now work!

Gerhard
11-12-2007, 18:07
I switched to ALX for a new Romani campaign. Had no problems and the AI seems to be a bit smarter.

However, I am having issues with my generals. None of them has died of old age, my faction leader is now 104.

Is not-dieing-of-old-age a hardcoded feature of ALX? Can someone confirm if or is just this particular campaign messed up?

cheers

Admetos
11-12-2007, 19:07
Generals not dying of natrual causes is a feature of Alex, but its in no way hardcoded. That said, I would be extremely suprised if it was activated for all generals simply by switching to alex.exe. IIRC it involves going through a .txt file and adding it to the generals you want.

EDIT:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
In my battle of Sparta It took 3 of my upgraded generals to NOT kill a single peltast unit that si wrong .. no? Well. .. I think there is muchhistoric proof to put cavalry a little up the latter.

This would have probably been the un-balancing that playing on VH gives the game.

Maksimus
11-13-2007, 01:41
Can anyone mess a bit to see if custom or histoirc work
I am sure that BI.exe is the same thing.. How do you make Custom and Historic work on BI.exe? any Help?


This would have probably been the un-balancing that playing on VH gives the game.
Well - No. Not acctually, It seemed to me and others that was the case (especially because EB members are 'pointing' at that), but it's actually not:no:
EB 1 is not unbalanced because of VH settings - that said I am refering that VH settings are not addressing only to cavalry.. VH settings boost +7 morale and some attack and defence value to the enemy, wich is making them just a bit harder to beat.

What I am refferint to is the fact (by my expirience of RTW game-playing) that Cavalry is, generaly, undervalued:shame:.. And that si probably the way it is intended in EB by the creators, What is not intended surely is to have a general whose infantry is fighting with no probs - but he himself is usless:coffeenews: ..

In my case, I would like to have stronger cavalry in general - but that is actually refering to their attack and hit points (i will make such a mod where ordinary infantry would not have a chance against Company)

mrtwisties
11-13-2007, 02:18
Infantry might not find VH/VH as hard as cavalry do. Cavalry rely on their stats (charge bonuses) to be effective in combat. If they can't kill enough people in their initial charge to give them time to withdraw, then they get mauled when they turn their backs. By giving the AI a +7/+7 stat boost, you reduce the set of units that the cavalry can kill enough of in their initial charge.

If you want to make it harder for yourself, don't play on VH/VH. Use general cam, don't pause the battles, put the wings of your army under AI control and don't reload when you lose (and with the wings of the army under AI control, you WILL lose). That way you'll get a challenge AND the pleasure of riding down foot soldiers.

HamilcarBarca
11-13-2007, 02:24
What I am refferint to is the fact (by my expirience of RTW game-playing) that Cavalry is, generaly, undervalued

Its is important to consider that cavalry in the Hellenistic Period often did not have large, strong, quality mounts (horse breeding), did not always use horse shoes (limiting the movement of horses), and - most importantly, did not have stirrups.

The paired stirrup did not appear until around 322 AD (Sarmatians used a single loop as a horse-mounting aid prior to that). In the absence of stirrups, cavalry had less stability in the saddle, were more easily unseated while riding, were unable to engage in close-fighting from the saddle with great force (i.e. wielding a sword with stirrups is very different to wielding a sword without), and were more vulnerable to being toppled from the saddle by enemy infantry.

So, I think the balance with the cavalry is about right.

H.

Maksimus
11-13-2007, 03:07
Did any palyed a VH battle with 70% infantry, 20% missles and 10% cavalry?
Keep on mind that you have the same numbers (or less as ussuall) as CPU..

Still.. I agree that battle balance is just fine generally - but I was refering to harder-better battle AI with Alex.exe... Miniding that cost/versses use is highly undervaluated - it makes you wish not to use cavalry at all! :thumbsdown:

Anyway..

Marcus Publius
11-13-2007, 22:55
My custom battles no longer work, when I go to start a battle it just dumps me back to the faction selection screen, anyone else getting this?

I have the same problem :thumbsdown:

Maksimus
11-14-2007, 03:07
I have the same problem :thumbsdown:
Yes - We know - Me to!.. I am just waithing for some EB member to see if this would work :whip:
I am not sure how to make Custom/Hustoric battles playable - but some EB members surely can know the pattern - We are actually all waiting for some modder to show up here and test it - like BOVI :yes:
(could you help here a bit? Here is a bloon :balloon2: )

:laugh4:

Blazing141
11-14-2007, 17:12
Hey Maksimus,
Is it possible to go back to using RTW.exe AI by following your instructions in the first post in reverse?

I do see that the AI is better in Alex, its just that if my faction leades never die, I feel like I'm cheating and not getting the best out of the game...


Thanks in advance for the help

Admetos
11-14-2007, 17:24
Your faction leader will die, you need to go into descr_strat and give a general the "Immortal" trait to stop him dieing from natrual causes. To go back to RTW.exe, just change the command line of the shortcut.

Blazing141
11-14-2007, 17:35
what about the renaming of certain campaign folders as listed in the first post? do those need to be renamed back to imperial campaign or whatever?

Also, where is the file you mention that needs to be changed?

sorry but not so familiar with the RTW file structure.

Thanks.

Admetos
11-14-2007, 17:57
Ah yes, now having read the first post you will need to re-name the folders, I assumed that you'd copyed them, which would be less time-comsuming if you plan on switching back. The 'file' that needs to be changed is your EB shortcut on the desktop, just change "RomeTW-ALX.exe" to "RomeTW.exe", obviously without the quotes.

Maksimus
11-14-2007, 18:32
Admetos answer is good for you Blazing141, just try to follow the instructions from the first post and do the thing...

If you realy would have some probs with that - I will upload the vanilla files/folders to make it work back...but the point of this is to know-how to use the 'pattern' of switching to Alex.exe for any future EB modes (RTW based:smash: )

Blazing141
11-14-2007, 20:29
Excellent, thanks, guys! I will stick with EB/Alex for now as my Romani campaign is going well, but I will wait and see if dudes start dying of old age....if not, then back to EB/RTW....

Maksimus
11-15-2007, 08:44
Please post if they live more than.. let's say.. 115 years:yes:

That is due to Alex.exe vanilla campaign.. in wich you have to win all before Alexander is dead.. so .. some just play longer than the others!

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-15-2007, 19:48
anyone know how to make the generales die in alex.exe?

Admetos
11-15-2007, 20:02
If you look up a few of posts...

Blazing141
11-15-2007, 20:10
Admetos,
I'm not well versed in modifying the files to make the generals mortal. Can you advise of what specifically needs to be done? Thanks.

Admetos
11-15-2007, 22:11
When you switch to alex.exe, the generals WILL NOT be immortal. To make a general immortal, you need go to descr_strat and give them the trait "Immortal 1" (without quotes). This won't work in EB because there's no immortal trait. So now maybe finally we can have people stop worrying about their generals being immortal, this being the second time i've said it. To make your generals immortal, you will need to add the immortal trait from from Alexander and, as said above, give it to the generals you wan't to be immortal in descr_strat.

Maksimus@ I'm thinking you should put in the first post that generals won't be immortal, seeing this is being asked alot.

Zarax
11-15-2007, 22:27
Even though it feel strange to have a bunch of 100+ years olds...

Admetos
11-15-2007, 22:36
Well, I'm pretty sure that the generals become immortal through that trait, and seeing as EB was built on 1.5, that trait wasn't even made then so definetly isn't in EB, so I can't see how generals would become immortal simply by switch to alex.exe. And even if the trait did exist in EB, you still need to give it to generals in descr_strat. :dizzy2:

Redmeth
11-15-2007, 23:02
Well in M2TW I believe you can mod the max age, in RTW IIRC you cannot so it's hardcoded by that it means controlled by the exe, so yes an exe switch could cause the max age to go up and generals (perhaps especially FMs) live very long lives...

Maksimus
11-16-2007, 10:29
Is it possible for them not to die? I belive No..:inquisitive:

Redmeth
11-16-2007, 13:56
Is it possible for them not to die? I belive No..:inquisitive:

In M2TW? set the max age to something ridiculous like 1000... at least that's what I remember reading somewhere...

Zarax
11-16-2007, 17:06
Well, I'm pretty sure that the generals become immortal through that trait, and seeing as EB was built on 1.5, that trait wasn't even made then so definetly isn't in EB, so I can't see how generals would become immortal simply by switch to alex.exe. And even if the trait did exist in EB, you still need to give it to generals in descr_strat. :dizzy2:

I agree with you, on the other side there is no real in depth research on alex and there might be a few hard coded weird things...

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-16-2007, 17:34
how can I stop the game from CTD when playing custom or historic on ALEX?

Maksimus
11-16-2007, 18:50
:no: You just have to figure what *txt. to change.. I would have but I am just guessing for now...
It would be nice if someone from EB team or anyone who made Custom/Historic work on BI.exe could help now
But we are not so lucky this week:no: (fixed.)

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-16-2007, 21:58
maybe you should post this topic on the unofficial modding projects forum and ask for help?

Admetos
11-16-2007, 22:04
I think people that read the mod sub-forum would read this forum, perhaps this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=73) forum would be better.

Maksimus
11-17-2007, 19:48
Did anyone have Naval Invasions? - I mean, I know Alex AI is much better then BI AI, but I tought that I read somewhere that BI is made to use even 'plastic' invasion sometimes 3-4 unit's top's, and that was just a response for RTW setback on naval issues

Still, I belive that it is now diferent in Alex.. There are not so much naval, but there are more AI battles on the land..

Please post if you have naval invasion screen in Alex.exe:yes:

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-17-2007, 23:53
I had naval invasion in vanilla alexander

Maksimus
11-18-2007, 07:10
Well, that is nice to :laugh4:

Mouzafphaerre
11-18-2007, 11:43
.
In vanilla naval invasion is bugged, not under-programmed. I have a Carthie fleet filled up with decent units and sailed to Latium coast but sitting there for a decade or more not disembarking. It's the disembarking part that doesn't seem to work, so I call it the AI disembarking bug.
.

Redmeth
11-18-2007, 13:11
.
In vanilla naval invasion is bugged, not under-programmed. I have a Carthie fleet filled up with decent units and sailed to Latium coast but sitting there for a decade or more not disembarking. It's the disembarking part that doesn't seem to work, so I call it the AI disembarking bug.
.

BI Is better with naval invasions but the side-effect is they can get annoying fast, small invasions of 3-4 Epirote units sieging Taras were too common in a Romani campaign and we were at peace I just beat them and then made peace again...

Anyway they made me conquer Greece faster that I would've liked...

The best part was a full scale naval invastion from Carthage into Iberia witnessed in my Sauromatae campaign, 2-3 full stacks crossed over and started whooping Lusitan butt (the Lusitans had previously subdued the Carthies and made their way into the heart of Gaul) fun stuff...

Maksimus
11-18-2007, 13:34
Did you try it with Alx.exe my Balkan friend?
What do you think?

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-18-2007, 17:17
so about the CTD with custom or historic... I asked in that forum and the answer was:

I am afraid I am not au fait with running mods through .exes they were not intended for. I know that in an Alexander modfolder I needed to keep the battlefields folder with a descr_strat file present in order for CBs to work (though this will not be your answer in whole if at all). Not quite sure why that works tbh. I think Alex may work a little differently from RTW and BI in regard to the CBs and HBs, probably in the folder structure and possibly text files. The map files themselves do not seem to be suspect as the campaign map will work.

Best of luck in finding the answer - and do post here, whoever finds it.
so no solution yet:no:

Maksimus
11-20-2007, 19:45
]:bow: Leviathan .. I realy think that it is not so popular or good to have a RTW mod that has no custom or historic battles available.. still, The point is in ALX.exe exellent campaign AI..

I call upon anyone that has a suggestion or solution or some 'small' solution.. to go ahead with it now.. so we can make historc and custom work

Thank you!.)

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-20-2007, 23:18
I decided to make another folder of RTW & BI and install eb there on BI jest so I could play CS & HC

Maksimus
11-21-2007, 00:03
That should work too :yes:

Maksimus
11-25-2007, 01:37
Do you have a dead general yet? Anyone? I have my Pyrros at age 73.. but I play a loooong campaigna and slowly... so .. When you have someone to die just post his grey picture here so we all know there are no vampires around:candle:

LotW89
11-26-2007, 18:03
I have my Sweboz leader at an age of 200 -.-
I think I'm going to switch back to BI.exe

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-26-2007, 18:32
so it's the leaders who won't die... anyone knows what to modify in order to make them die?
edit: never mind solution has been found!!:crown:


It's the trait "Immortal", that only works in Alexander.

Make a backup of desc_strat.txt file and look for this section:




character Alexander, named character, leader, age 20, , x 11, y 49, portrait alexander, strat_model ALEX_alexander, battle_model ALEX_alexander_general_battle
traits Drink 1 , Arse 1 , Brave 1 , TacticalSkill 1 , CounterSpy 1 , Handsome 1 , TouchedByTheGods 1 , Intelligent 1 , Factionleader 1 , Immortal 1


Removing the "Immortal 1" (and the comma) should work

Cheexsta
11-27-2007, 00:13
That's not a solution, because you can't remove a trait that is not there. No EB character has the Immortal trait, so that is NOT the problem. The issue is clearly something inherent in the exe hardcode.

I have been playing with the Alex.exe for a few decades now, and it seems to be working fine except for the undying generals. I can imagine going back to the BI.exe only to have my empire erupt in revolt after all the generals die. There have been some good points, though: the AI is a little wiser when attacking uphill (they wait for you at the bottom of a steep incline rather than exhaust themselves going up it), for example. I haven't seen any other significant improvements, so I think I'll go back to BI.exe.

Maksimus
11-27-2007, 01:05
Fair enough.. I saw more AI advance moves as for Campaign AI - And that one i Much - Much Better... The AI is Actually spreading... Ill post you a picture!:yes:

https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/5172/65240187no5.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
See... This never Ever happend to me at RTW or BI exe-- this is one unit that attacked my slingers in the middle of my siege...
That never, ever, happend to me in any EB game untill Alex.exe
And after a I gain a full charge of on them with my lancers and this happens!
https://img406.imageshack.us/img406/995/18201546xn0.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
They just fall back with no shame... For me.. that is one very clear example of very nice AI..
And... this too
https://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7374/96337806ss8.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
Where Two MercMediumPhalnx that attacked my army in North Africa gain pace... and.. you see.. This unit fought and when AI saw that the main general unit of those two is going to die - due to my battle formations.. He just.. took the other unit that was in the middle of a fight and witdrawed it form the battle.. Later.. Ai used the same unit to cross the whole north Africa and rejoin it with some medium size Army of Carthage that sieged my town after that.. So.. the Ai is realy the best on Alex..exe.. But those hardcoded immortal effect are clearly making the game.. bad in a way.. But just to note - Yes.. your generals can die in a battle very easilly.. I lost two already..

And this is the campaign map
https://img510.imageshack.us/img510/702/29819055ez7.jpg (https://imageshack.us)
https://img510.imageshack.us/img510/702/29819055ez7.2d53d264dc.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=510&i=29819055ez7.jpg)
I must say.. that Campaign AI is very well balanced.. There can be no waste of familly members on the map so you see Baktria! There could only be dreams of that move into India without Alex..

puffff...
be well my friends!

Admetos
11-27-2007, 02:34
It really is a pity that the general's life span seems incredibly increased by the .exe, because I've noticed better AI aswell, but I think the generals just ruin it for me.

Maksimus
11-27-2007, 03:46
They did it for me too... it's just that I havent reached the time yet... So I enjoj my Pyrros at age 75.. too bad.. realy... too bad

Tellos Athenaios
11-27-2007, 03:47
Actually the AI expansion seems to be somewhat poor compared to the plain RTW or RTW\BI version-- though it might be a matter of chance. (And the fact you've taken out quite a few factions already.)

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-27-2007, 11:18
do all the generals are Immortals or only the leader?
cuz if it's only the leader you can get it killed in battle in age 75....

konny
11-27-2007, 12:47
May be you should try "Immortal 0" or "Immortal -1". There must be a reason why there is an "Immortal" trait even though the engine makes characters immortal when the trait is missing.

Maksimus
11-27-2007, 13:48
May be you should try "Immortal 0" or "Immortal -1". There must be a reason why there is an "Immortal" trait even though the engine makes characters immortal when the trait is missing.
Can anyone confirm that it should be done...??? OR that this worked before..?? Konny!? This is a valid or what?

konny
11-27-2007, 14:10
I have no idea, give it a try: Change dectr_strat and make a Casse character 75 give him the immortal 0 trait and another one 75 too and give him the immortal -1 trait, start a Casse campaign with Alex.exe and hit "End Turn" until either one of them dies or they reach the 100.

Maksimus
11-27-2007, 15:52
Ok... Will do that !
It's just that I got to run now... I will try it and I will post here if there is a fix..
Abd if this realy fixes the characters issue - I will fix descr_start and upload it here - tonight or tomorrow!:yes:

konny
11-27-2007, 16:18
I fear that descr_strat wouldn't be enough, if it works. You'll need to give that trait to FM come of age too, as well as candidates for mariage/adaption, puppet rulers and recruitable generals; not to mention every character that is spawned by the script.

In return I would make governors of rebell towns immortal to prevent them from dying out.

Maksimus
11-27-2007, 23:48
I fear that descr_strat wouldn't be enough, if it works. You'll need to give that trait to FM come of age too, as well as candidates for mariage/adaption, puppet rulers and recruitable generals; not to mention every character that is spawned by the script.

In return I would make governors of rebell towns immortal to prevent them from dying out.

My god... So... There is no hope... ... I wont even bother with descr_strat if I have to mod some other txt. files I just don't know how...

Where do I mod future FM members??
For example::
; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### britons - Casse #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------

faction britons, trader mao
denari 3000
settlement
{
level large_town
region Cassemorg

year_founded 0
population 3460
settlement_tax 51
plan_set default_set
faction_creator britons
building
{
type core_building governors_villa
}
building
{
type uniques4 fourtwo
}
building
{
type defenses wooden_wall
}
;WG building
; {
; type Barracks_D militia_barracks_D1
; }
building
{
type smith blacksmith
}
building
{
type port_buildings port
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms
}
building
{
type farms2 granary
}
building
{
type market market
}
building
{
type amphitheatres game_field
}
building
{
type temple_of_fun temple_of_fun_temple
}
}

; City: Camulosadae
; Region: Cassemorg
; --------------------
character Barae ofcatuvellauni, named character, leader, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, immortal -1, age 24, , x 58, y 184
traits NaturalIntelligence 5 , NaturalCharisma 5 , NaturalEnergy 6 , Selflessness 3 , Loyalty 4 , Temperament 4 , TurnsAlive 2 , CasseCasse 1 , BaraeBiography 1 , CommandExperience 3 , GoodTactician 1 , GoodLeader 1 , TacticalSkill 1 , Energetic 1 , Austere 1 , PublicFaith 1 , NumAncillariesAcquired 2 , DruidAcquired 1
ancillaries druid2 , family_retainer
army
unit celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit celtic infantry gaeroas exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0


; Region: Cassemorg
; --------------------
character Sentata ofcatuvellauni, named character, heir, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 30, , x 58, y 185
traits NaturalIntelligence 5 , NaturalCharisma 4 , NaturalEnergy 4 , Selflessness 3 , Loyalty 5 , Temperament 2 , TurnsAlive 3 , CommandExperience 2 , CasseMenape 1 , GoodTactician 1 , GoodAdministrator 1 , Austere 1, PublicFaith 1, Drink 1 , NumAncillariesAcquired 2
ancillaries bard , family_retainer
army
unit celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit celtic infantry gaeroas exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0


; Region: Cassemorg
; --------------------
character Margorix ofcatuvellauni, named character, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 40, , x 58, y 186
traits NaturalIntelligence 5 , NaturalCharisma 6 , NaturalEnergy 5 , Selflessness 3 , Loyalty 4 , Temperament 2 , TurnsAlive 6 , CommandExperience 4 , CasseCasse 1 , GoodTactician 1 , GoodLeader 2 , Energetic 2, PublicFaith 3, GoodAdministrator 2 , GoodTrader 1 , NumAncillariesAcquired 2 , DruidAcquired 1
ancillaries druid2 , family_retainer
army
unit celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit celtic infantry botroas exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0


; Region: Cassemorg
; --------------------
character Caradog ofcatuvellauni, named character, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 65, , x 58, y 187
traits NaturalIntelligence 6 , NaturalCharisma 6 , NaturalEnergy 5 , Selflessness 3 , Loyalty 4 , Temperament 2 , TurnsAlive 8
ancillaries armourer
army
unit celtic chariot cidainh bodyguards exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0
unit celtic infantry botroas exp 1 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0

; Region: Sea
; --------------------
character Segovax ofcatuvellauni, admiral, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 20, , x 57, y 179
army
unit generic ship ponto exp 0 armour 0 weapon_lvl 0


; Region: Cruddain
; --------------------
character Senaculos ofcatuvellauni, spy, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 20, , x 58, y 188
traits GoodSpy 1 , SpyTurnsAlive 1 , AgentTraining 2


; Region: Cassemorg
; --------------------
character Lannildot ofcatuvellauni, diplomat, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 20, , x 57, y 182
traits GoodDiplomat 2

;FOW Spies Casse START
;---------------------

character Amminau, spy, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 30, , x 49, y 216
traits NaturalSpySkill 3, GoodSpy 5, GoodConspirator 3

;FOW Spies Casse END
;---------------------

character_record Mowg ofcatuvellauni, male, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 8, alive, never_a_leader
character_record Massorias ofcatuvellauni, male, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 7, alive, never_a_leader
character_record Vyncorra, female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 95, alive, never_a_leader
character_record Avica, female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 60, alive, never_a_leader
character_record Inyae, female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 24, alive, never_a_leader
character_record Andoran ofcatuvellauni, female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 4, alive, never_a_leader
character_record Ishi ofcatuvellauni, female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, immortal -1, age 2, alive, never_a_leader

relative Caradog ofcatuvellauni, Vyncorra, Margorix ofcatuvellauni, Sentata ofcatuvellauni, Barae ofcatuvellauni, end
relative Margorix ofcatuvellauni, Avica, end
relative Barae ofcatuvellauni, Inyae, Mowg ofcatuvellauni, Massorias ofcatuvellauni, Andoran ofcatuvellauni, Ishi ofcatuvellauni, end

But where to mod ...other?:shrug:

Tellos Athenaios
11-28-2007, 00:00
export_descr_character_traits.txt

Cheexsta
11-28-2007, 00:04
First, you'll need to add two traits to EB\Data\export_descr_character_traits.txt because YOU CAN'T REMOVE A TRAIT THAT DOES NOT EXIST. Adding those lines to descr_strat would result in a KTM during map.rwm generation, so you need to add the Immortal trait to the game. Additionally, the game does not like negative numbers for traits in most cases, so you'll need to add an AntiTrait.

It would look like this:


;------------------------------------------
Trait Immortal
Characters family
Hidden
AntiTraits AntiImmortal

Level Immortal
Description Immortal_desc
EffectsDescription Immortal_effects_desc
Threshold 1

;------------------------------------------
Trait AntiImmortal
Characters family
Hidden
AntiTraits Immortal

Level Not_Immortal
Description AntiImmortal_desc
EffectsDescription AntiImmortal_effects_desc
Threshold 1

Simply add this to the part before all of the triggers. At the end of the list of triggers, add the following:

Trigger AntiImmortal
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition Trait AntiImmortal < 1

Affects AntiImmortal 2 Chance 100
Then go to EB\Data\Text\export_VnVs.txt and add this to the end:

{Immortal} Immortal

{Immortal_desc}
Hidden immortal trait

{Immortal_effects_desc}
No Effects

&#172;--------------------

{AntiImmortal} AntiImmortal

{AntiImmortal_desc}
Hidden trait.

{AntiImmortal_effects_desc}
No Effects
Because it's a hidden trait (ie you won't see it in their trait list) you probably don't need to add the description, but just to be sure I would add it anyway.

Edit: Well I'll be buggered. It worked...

At least, it looks like it worked. I made the above changes, hit end turn and had a whole bunch of old fogies die at the start of the next turn from "Natural Causes." If I played a few more turns I daresay that the rest of my ageing population of family members would also die, too.

I'll be interested to see if it works for everyone else, too, so give it a try!

Lgk
11-28-2007, 06:28
Hi.

I'm yet to download EB with my slow dial-up, but tested alex exe with XGM.

1) Massive changes of "imperial_campaign_" into "alexander_" etc aren't necessary. Just run the mod with "-noalexander" key, and it will use standard "imperial_campaign" folder and relevant text descriptions. Custom battles also work fine.

2) To rid of immortal generals, simply add "immortal" trait to "export_descr_character_traits.txt", "text\export_VnVs.txt" and "export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt" (i think Cheexsta forgot to mention this one), and that's it - no need for trigger and antitrait.

3) Some bi features should work also with alex exe, eg string "options +prebattle_night_battle_tickbox" in "descr_start.txt" should allow night battles (together with "night_battles_enabled") string. There are more switches, need to scan exe and test further.

Part of this info comes from twow.ru forums.

Hope it helps - at least it works in XGM for me.

P.S. I use RomeTW-ALX.exe + chat_filter.san only, never bothered to install the entire add-on.

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-28-2007, 07:16
Cheexsta, can you please upload your fixed file?
Lgk, what do you mean by running the mod with "-noalexander" key?

Admetos
11-28-2007, 09:33
Lgk - That's brilliant, thanks alot. :2thumbsup:

Maksimus
11-28-2007, 13:46
Hi.

I'm yet to download EB with my slow dial-up, but tested alex exe with XGM.

1) Massive changes of "imperial_campaign_" into "alexander_" etc aren't necessary. Just run the mod with "-noalexander" key, and it will use standard "imperial_campaign" folder and relevant text descriptions. Custom battles also work fine.

2) To rid of immortal generals, simply add "immortal" trait to "export_descr_character_traits.txt", "text\export_VnVs.txt" and "export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt" (i think Cheexsta forgot to mention this one), and that's it - no need for trigger and antitrait.

3) Some bi features should work also with alex exe, eg string "options +prebattle_night_battle_tickbox" in "descr_start.txt" should allow night battles (together with "night_battles_enabled") string. There are more switches, need to scan exe and test further.

Part of this info comes from twow.ru forums.

Hope it helps - at least it works in XGM for me.

P.S. I use RomeTW-ALX.exe + chat_filter.san only, never bothered to install the entire add-on.

Thank you so much if you can just confirm that the descr_start.txt is not the one that should be changed like mentioned above..

And please ... please.. Just test if you can and post here so we can make on single download link at the end of it and make all possible for gamers. And it should be in mind that EB 1.1 is comming soon.. so..:smash:

And Cheexsta... If What Lgk is saying is true (like that ... "export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt" is doomed to be changed) - can you just make ONE more example of it and how it is done... But have in mine what Lkg said so it can all work well...

And I am so sorry I don't have much time in the last 5 days so I can not do anything mouch from the forum... I don't have EB here in My Uni..
Thank you my friends.. I hope Alex.. Is not dead yet:laugh4:

Maksimus
11-28-2007, 13:49
Hi.

I'm yet to download EB with my slow dial-up, but tested alex exe with XGM.

1) Massive changes of "imperial_campaign_" into "alexander_" etc aren't necessary. Just run the mod with "-noalexander" key, and it will use standard "imperial_campaign" folder and relevant text descriptions. Custom battles also work fine.


I am just lost here in a minute.. Can you say it again... like "-noalexander" is refered to what?.. Target of exe?:wall:

Maksimus
11-28-2007, 16:44
:bow: Immortall fix is done... just copy past it to your RTW folder and owerwrite all!!

https://img98.imageshack.us/img98/5382/28505767xi5.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

Download link is added to the main post

Lgk * Cheexsta * Tellos Athenaios * Konny

And.. Lgk - We (I hope all of us) are counting that your tests will help Alex.exe to use Night Battles and Custom and Historic battles!

Leviathan DarklyCute
11-28-2007, 17:24
Maksimus, can you please upload the file on another site, filefront doesn't work for me...
please....

konny
11-28-2007, 17:49
You should remove:

AntiTraits AntiImmortal

because the trait AntiImmortal is nowhere defined (I don't think that this might cause problems, but just to be on the safe side).

Lgk
11-28-2007, 18:01
Summary

1) Edit 3 files (add immortal trait only):
. "export_descr_character_traits.txt"
. "export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt"
. "text\export_VnVs.txt"
(i think engine must 1st parse enums file and then search text file for them)

2) Make shortcut like this:
. "RomeTW-ALX.exe -show_err -nm -mod:eb -noalexander"

No other changes (hence small download, or simply do it by hand).
Custom battles and standard imperial campaign should work.

As for "options +something" string in descr_strat i think it's a way to test all bi options separately (assuming that "options bi" enables them all) and mark the working ones. Had no time to test them yet.

Redmeth
11-28-2007, 18:16
Good news that you got rid of that annoying thing with immortal FMs. When I'll finally get around to play another campaign, probably after 1.1 is released, I'll try it out with Alexander.

Redmeth
11-28-2007, 18:27
Can you please also post the code needed for the immortal trait on the first page for people who like to the editing themselves. Thanks.

Cheexsta
11-28-2007, 22:25
Hi.

I'm yet to download EB with my slow dial-up, but tested alex exe with XGM.

1) Massive changes of "imperial_campaign_" into "alexander_" etc aren't necessary. Just run the mod with "-noalexander" key, and it will use standard "imperial_campaign" folder and relevant text descriptions. Custom battles also work fine.
Huh, how bout that.


2) To rid of immortal generals, simply add "immortal" trait to "export_descr_character_traits.txt", "text\export_VnVs.txt" and "export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt" (i think Cheexsta forgot to mention this one), and that's it - no need for trigger and antitrait.
Noted. But no, you no longer need to change enums files after the 1.5 patch.


3) Some bi features should work also with alex exe, eg string "options +prebattle_night_battle_tickbox" in "descr_start.txt" should allow night battles (together with "night_battles_enabled") string. There are more switches, need to scan exe and test further.
Interesting. Should also be noted that night battle traits are required for night battles to actually become available, but cheers for the info.

Thanks for the corrections and clarifications, mate.

konny
11-28-2007, 23:54
. "RomeTW-ALX.exe -show_err -nm -mod:eb -noalexander"

That works very fine and it is savegame compatible with Bi.exe games.

I have played some times now with an older save and everything works. I haven't used the immortal patch so far, but that had been only three or four years, so no major damage to the game done by no natural death.

I have witnessed some improvements to the startegical AI:

- Hunting down of defeated enemy stacks by using several own stacks.

- Attacking enemy armies that are deep within "neutral" (for example rebell) territory.

- Attacking enemy armies with strong garrisons as soon as the border is crossed by the enemy, instead of remaining in the town and waiting to be sieged.

- In general a much more aggressive usage of the own forces, even with factions that are in general in the defense.

- A very interessting manouver by the Lusotanns: They attacked Numantia from the South and were repulsed by the spawning stack. Afterwards they tried it again from the North (a full stack that had made a long detour) and run in an ambush of the defending stack in the woods there. Then they moved five or six one-unit armies up there and lined them up. Afterwards another full stack moved there and was placed behind the "screen". I am curious what's coming next...


I have jet to see a better tactical AI because I had just fought one siege (everything as usual) and a battle in the woods in which I was much stronger than the enemy.

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 00:19
Cheexsta, can you please upload your fixed file?
Lgk, what do you mean by running the mod with "-noalexander" key?

Ok
http://www.MegaShare.com/316607~;)

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 00:21
Can you please also post the code needed for the immortal trait on the first page for people who like to the editing themselves. Thanks.

Will do.. It's just that we are hoping to make one 'new' edited first post when Lgk tests or makes night battles playable for Alex...

but I will do something fast!

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 00:33
That works very fine and it is savegame compatible with Bi.exe games.
Konny... please just copy past your Target here -- I just cant get a grip on this totaly - just like ::

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Activision\Rome - Total War\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err

and what is that should be changed right?!:inquisitive:

Never Mind - got it! Will edit the main post now!!

Tellos Athenaios
11-29-2007, 00:47
With the regular version of EB (and this is not supported because it may interferre with faction eliminated screens -for unknown reasons) you can simply enable night battles by opening your descr_strat file; adding a line called

options bi, night_battles_enabled

to it.

Then open the export_descr_character_traits.txt file, and uncomment the various traits & trigger leading to the NightBattleCapable line (or some such thing, the exact name I can't quite recall atm.) of traits.

konny
11-29-2007, 00:59
Konny... please just copy past your Target here -- I just cant get a grip on this totaly - just like ::

"C:\Program Files (x86)\Activision\Rome - Total War\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err

Just replace the BI.exe with ALX.exe (not ALEX.exe, that what I did wrong first) and add -noalexander to it. Copy chat.san to the EB\data folder, change the CD, done.

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 01:00
With the regular version of EB (and this is not supported because it may interferre with faction eliminated screens -for unknown reasons) you can simply enable night battles by opening your descr_strat file; adding a line called

options bi, night_battles_enabled

to it.

Then open the export_descr_character_traits.txt file, and uncomment the various traits & trigger leading to the NightBattleCapable line (or some such thing, the exact name I can't quite recall atm.) of traits.

You have already helped much - thank you for that - I am glad that EB members are here
If you can do anything to help us manualy mod to allow night battles for EB on Alex.exe - All would be very happy... I am editing the main post just now to enable new gamers to use much easier way of playing EB on Alex -- way that enables Save-Games of Any --- And I mean RTW and BI.exe save-games! and Historic and Custom battles..
Please post if you have time to see if night will work but based on this NEW EB-ALEX game step-by-step start...
:bow:[/FONT]

Tellos Athenaios
11-29-2007, 01:05
Sorry, but I can't do that since I don't have the alex.exe

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 01:34
Just replace the BI.exe with ALX.exe (not ALEX.exe, that what I did wrong first) and add -noalexander to it. Copy chat.san to the EB\data folder, change the CD, done.


This is the right Target ---- this one works fine!
"C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -noalexander

juba1
11-29-2007, 01:48
sorry but the first post is really confusing...

should i do that ??? (i want to start a new campaign)

- install RTW Alexander + EB1.0 (+fixes)
- install EB.7z ( overwritte all )
- install Immortal fix
- modify the shortcut Total War\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err -noalexander ?????


(no need to do step 7 and step 8 bcs chat_filter is already in EB.7z ???)

thanks for help

Senatus Populusque Romanus
11-29-2007, 01:58
i will give it a shot

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 02:00
sorry but the first post is really confusing...

should i do that ??? (i want to start a new campaign)

- install RTW Alexander + EB1.0 (+fixes)
- install EB.7z ( overwritte all )
- install Immortal fix
- modify the shortcut Total War\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err -noalexander ?????


(no need to do step 7 and step 8 bcs chat_filter is already in EB.7z ???)

thanks for help

No... no... You should use -- NEW step-by-step:yes:

The shortcut Total War\RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err -noalexander
is just for New step-by-step.. The reason this is really confusing is because there are people that already use EB1 on Alex.exe and need only the Immortal fix - and by the way - The NEW step-by-step is made for you and others that are just about to install it... The prob is I edited the Main post just now:beam: So NOW read the instructions and try again!
And thank you for your efforts at the start of these *exe adventures - you were the one that helped this come to life (read the credits:yes: )

juba1
11-29-2007, 03:52
1) well, i just did the NEW step-by-step and i get this error message :
failed to read censored word dictionary file : eb/data/chat_filter.san

so u should add in the NEW step-by-step that we have to copy chat_filter.san in the EB\data folder



2) in my opinion, u should advice to make the shorcut like that :
RomeTW-ALX.exe" -mod:eb -show_err -nm -noalexander

3) as Lgk said, do we need to delete AntiTraits AntiImmortal from the NEW step-by-step installation explanation ???


Thanks for u help Maksimus, now i m going to play...

Lgk
11-29-2007, 04:11
Can't test anything on EB, still downloading... hope it won't be broken.


With the regular version of EB (and this is not supported because it may interferre with faction eliminated screens -for unknown reasons)...

But as i said, if there were problems with eliminated factions and night battles, maybe it's better to use "options +option1 +option2... etc" instead of general "options bi"? Btw there is interesting text in exe such as "defeat_text_bi_style" and "defeat_movie_bi_style" - i bet these are possible options as well... try it, folks!

Also... methinks, some non-evident bugs with old savegames (ones before immortal trait was added) are quite possible, esp if enums file is now ignored (as Cheexsta said). It's always better to start new campaign (and kill map.rwm) anyways. :)

Lgk
11-29-2007, 04:18
--------------------------------
Trait Immortal
Characters family
Hidden
AntiTraits AntiImmortal

Level Immortal
Description Immortal_desc
EffectsDescription Immortal_effects_desc
Threshold 1


Maksimus, pls remove that "AntiTraits AntiImmortal" string.

juba1
11-29-2007, 05:21
so we dont need to add AntiTraits AntiImmortal ?

konny
11-29-2007, 10:55
EDIT: "AntiImmortal" is not defined and should not be added.

@ Maksimus

You should delete the old install instruction from post #1 because it is very confusing the way it is now.

Lgk
11-29-2007, 12:28
"AntiImmortal" is defined and should be added.
No. It's NOT necessary for immortal fix to work. And i doubt if it's present in original Alexander files either.

konny
11-29-2007, 12:46
No. It's NOT necessary for immortal fix to work. And i doubt if it's present in original Alexander files either.


*lol*


Yes, that's what I wanted to write, but somehow completly messed it up. Thank you, post fixed.

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 13:28
so we dont need to add AntiTraits AntiImmortal ?

Nah... It works fine without it, and If you made it in.. you should have no probs aswell.. Last night I played couple of years with AntiTraits AntiImmortal .. But now, the main post is fixed so that no AntiTraits AntiImmortal are needed:no:

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 13:29
EDIT: "AntiImmortal" is not defined and should not be added.

@ Maksimus

You should delete the old install instruction from post #1 because it is very confusing the way it is now.

Yes... It's just that.. I am afraid that someone might need still.. Atleast for making it back to vanilla....
pufff..................... deleting right now:shame:

Blazing141
11-29-2007, 17:00
So did we ever resolve if there could also be night battles? I'm continuing a EB/Alx Campaign with the immmortal fix installed (typed it in) and am using th e the various .exe switches on RTW-Alx, but I still have not been given the option to have a night battle....is there something I'm missing?

Also, I know this has been covered before, but what is the edit to make Romani available in custom battles?

Thanks guys, great job on everything.

konny
11-29-2007, 17:33
So did we ever resolve if there could also be night battles? I'm continuing a EB/Alx Campaign with the immmortal fix installed (typed it in) and am using th e the various .exe switches on RTW-Alx, but I still have not been given the option to have a night battle....is there something I'm missing?

I think you'll have to start a new campaign to have them in, because descr_start.txt is a campaign file.

Blazing141
11-29-2007, 17:56
SO it wont allow me to fight night battles even if I modify my current campaign strat file?

Blazing141
11-29-2007, 18:11
Just noticed something...To enable night battles, is it campaign_start that needs to be changed or campaign_STRAT ??

Thanks again for your help.

Maksimus
11-29-2007, 19:57
Just noticed something...To enable night battles, is it campaign_start that needs to be changed or campaign_STRAT ??

Thanks again for your help.

Actually, 'We'- By this I mean the all that are involved in this Alex.exe adventures are very keen to start new Campaigns by Night-Battles enabled..
But! There should be some numerous changes in traits and descr_start that would allow opiton+ option of BI.exe, that should be much more stable then just manualy...

LGT is working on it as I know.. We hope that those BI.exe and some other options will be implemented as far as days... And for EB 1.1 for sure..:smash:

.. I Will just re-post Tellos

With the regular version of EB (and this is not supported because it may interferre with faction eliminated screens -for unknown reasons) you can simply enable night battles by opening your descr_strat file; adding a line called

options bi, night_battles_enabled

to it.

Then open the export_descr_character_traits.txt file, and uncomment the various traits & trigger leading to the NightBattleCapable line (or some such thing, the exact name I can't quite recall atm.) of traits.

And by that I don't know wich trait's to uncomment .. So... Lgt should test it if he is sure that there are several options to enable BI features..:yes:

Maksimus
11-30-2007, 00:01
Is Anyone else getting this?
It is my save game.. And the traits seem to be messed up!:help:
https://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7640/80533453gu0.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

That happens in every end of turn! So all Client Kingdoms have my Client Rulers with (by now) -20% public order - I have tested, and there is no way you don't get those negative traits.. I think it is a bug! ...
That means that I can kiss my Level 4 gov. good buy.. And start a new game
This is very wrong
So something is either wrong with the trait scripts or it is needed to start a new campaign!?

I am Realy not sure..:no:

Blazing141
11-30-2007, 00:23
I am as well. Both of my type IV governor's are increasing in their interloper trait by 5% every turn. The guy in Tolosia (sp?) is at 35% increase in Disorder...

konny
11-30-2007, 00:54
Changing the traits is savegame compatible in the way that you can reload and play your older games, but it seriously messes up the trait system. That is your problem here.

Lgk
11-30-2007, 01:29
I guess it's better (if one wishes to continue old savegame) to add NEW traits (including immortal, night-fighter and anything else) to the END of "traits" section of EDCT file, just before "triggers" section. Stability depends on how parsed trait data are enumerated by engine and stored inside savegame files. But it might mess the game anyway... alas, we don't have source code here... :)

Redmeth
11-30-2007, 08:25
AFAIK EDCT changes are not save game compatible.

Maksimus
11-30-2007, 13:34
I guess it's better (if one wishes to continue old savegame) to add NEW traits (including immortal, night-fighter and anything else) to the END of "traits" section of EDCT file, just before "triggers" section. Stability depends on how parsed trait data are enumerated by engine and stored inside savegame files. But it might mess the game anyway... alas, we don't have source code here... :)

Can you just add an example how to add in night-fights and and bi options..?
Tellos specified what to do... but what about option + option + option
and how would the trait of nigh-fighter ? Will it be enabled for all or no?

Or should I just run it by checking my Bi folder :(

Maksimus
11-30-2007, 14:19
Ok... Here is a list of traits and trrigers that come in BI and that are connected to the Night-battles!


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;export_VnVs.txt;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

&#172;--------------------

{Alone_in_the_Dark} Alone in the Dark

{Alone_in_the_Dark_desc}
In the dark, there were always strange noises, and as a child this man heard them.

&#172;--------------------

{Night_Terrors} Night Terrors

{Night_Terrors_desc}
Darkness is not a friend. Darkness is where bad things happen.

&#172;--------------------

{Noctophobic} Noctophobic

{Noctophobic_desc}
Whatever his reasons, this man is terrified by darkness and the long, long hours of the lonely night.

&#172;--------------------

{Likes_the_Dark} Likes the Dark

{Likes_the_Dark_desc}
In the dark people get scared. But not this man.

&#172;--------------------

{Night_Owl} Night Owl

{Night_Owl_desc}
The cloak of night is a friend to this man. He uses the dark, he is strong in the dark.

&#172;--------------------

{Noctophiliac} Noctophiliac

{Noctophiliac_desc}
Born at midnight, or in love with the moonlight, this man is a real night bird, almost resenting the coming of dawn…

{Noctophiliac_gain_desc}
This man is now seen as an expert when commanding battles at night.

&#172;--------------------

{Night_Fighter} Night Fighter

{Night_Fighter_desc}
This trait allows a general to fight a battle at night.

&#172;--------------------

{Legendary_Hero} Legendary Hero

{Legendary_Hero_desc}
Like Horatius, this man's bravery knows no bounds. He is rightly famed among Romans as Aeneas reborn, or even a new Romulus!

{Legendary_Hero_epithet_desc} the Great

{Legendary_Hero_effects_desc}
+4 Morale for all troops on the battlefield, +1 Command when attacking

{Night_Fighter_effects_desc}
+1 Command when fighting at night

&#172;--------------------


{Alone_in_the_Dark_effects_desc}
-1 Command when fighting at night

{Night_Terrors_effects_desc}
-2 Command when fighting at night, +1 to personal security (improves the chances of detecting and foiling assassination attempts)

{Noctophobic_effects_desc}
-3 Command when fighting at night, +2 to personal security (improves the chances of detecting and foiling assassination attempts)

{Likes_the_Dark_effects_desc}
+1 Command when fighting at night

{Night_Owl_effects_desc}
+2 Command when fighting at night

{Noctophiliac_effects_desc}
+3 Command when fighting at night


;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Legendary_Hero
Legendary_Hero_desc
Legendary_Hero_epithet_desc
Legendary_Hero_effects_desc
Night_Fighter_effects_desc

Alone_in_the_Dark_effects_desc
Night_Terrors_effects_desc
Noctophobic_effects_desc
Likes_the_Dark_effects_desc
Night_Owl_effects_desc
Noctophiliac_effects_desc
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;export_descr_character_traits.txt;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


;------------------------------------------
Trait Noctophobia
Characters family
AntiTraits Noctophilia, NightBattleCapable

Level Alone_in_the_Dark
Description Alone_in_the_Dark_desc
EffectsDescription Alone_in_the_Dark_effects_desc
Threshold 2

Effect NightBattle -1

Level Night_Terrors
Description Night_Terrors_desc
EffectsDescription Night_Terrors_effects_desc
Threshold 3

Effect NightBattle -2
Effect PersonalSecurity 1

Level Noctophobic
Description Noctophobic_desc
EffectsDescription Noctophobic_effects_desc
Threshold 5

Effect NightBattle -3
Effect PersonalSecurity 2



;------------------------------------------
Trait Noctophilia
Characters family
AntiTraits Noctophobia

Level Likes_the_Dark
Description Likes_the_Dark_desc
EffectsDescription Likes_the_Dark_effects_desc
Threshold 2

Effect NightBattle 1

Level Night_Owl
Description Night_Owl_desc
EffectsDescription Night_Owl_effects_desc
Threshold 3

Effect NightBattle 2

Level Noctophiliac
Description Noctophiliac_desc
EffectsDescription Noctophiliac_effects_desc
GainMessage Noctophiliac_gain_desc
Threshold 5

Effect NightBattle 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait NightBattleCapable
Characters family
NoGoingBackLevel 1
AntiTraits Noctophobia

Level Night_Fighter
Description Night_Fighter_desc
EffectsDescription Night_Fighter_effects_desc
Threshold 6

Effect NightBattle 1



;------------------------------------------
Trigger night_battle_crushing_victory_attacker
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and BattleSuccess >= clear
and BattleOdds < 2
and IsNightBattle

Affects Noctophilia 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger night_battle_crushing_victory_defender
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition not WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and WonBattle
and BattleSuccess >= clear
and BattleOdds < 2
and IsNightBattle

Affects Noctophilia 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger night_battle_crushing_loss_attacker
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and not WonBattle
and BattleSuccess >= clear
and BattleOdds >= 0.5
and IsNightBattle

Affects Noctophobia 1 Chance 66

;------------------------------------------
Trigger night_battle_crushing_loss_defender
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition not WasAttacker
and IsGeneral
and not WonBattle
and BattleSuccess >= clear
and BattleOdds >= 0.5
and IsNightBattle

Affects Noctophobia 1 Chance 66

;------------------------------------------
Trigger diet_of_carrots_1
WhenToTest CharacterTurnStart

Condition Trait NightBattleCapable = 0
and IsGeneral
and Attribute Command >= 4

Affects NightBattleCapable 6 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger diet_of_carrots_2
WhenToTest PostBattle

Condition IsGeneral
and Attribute Command >= 1
and IsNightBattle
and Trait NightBattleCapable = 0
and WonBattle

Affects NightBattleCapable 6 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;descr_start.txt;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;


; Custom campaign script generated by Romans Campaign Map Editor

campaign barbarian_invasion
options bi
playable
huns
goths
sarmatians
vandals
franks
saxons
alemanni
sassanids
empire_east
empire_west
end
unlockable
end
nonplayable
romano_british
celts
burgundii
lombardi
roxolani
ostrogoths
slavs
berbers
empire_east_rebels
empire_west_rebels
slave
end


start_date 363 summer
end_date 476 summer
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

Now.. I am sure these are all compatible if you have BI or Alex on your EB 1...
But!!! The options bi are uor problem.. It is mentioned that it wont work when you just enable it due to faction elimination screens .... so... help :help:

Maksimus
11-30-2007, 21:32
Acctually If anyone has that prob and find it to be so ..hardy.. in a way.. I will delete That trait (Interloper) and will make the game work without it...
It is a trait that by my opinion is just not in place anyway..

There were numerous times whem my army had to spend just one turn in a settlement or a turn before level IV gov. Is added - In any way, with that trait you loose - because if you leave the settlement with the FMember that took the city in the first place - you would have riots - and If you leave him in - you get Interloper.

That is very negative and not needed at all..

Because when you leave your FMember just 2 turns in the 'border' city (because you need to campaign more) - he gets negatice traits that are bad for any further city managment - and if you leve him outside the city - yor FMember gets negativ traits for campaigning ...

So.. I will upload the FM Immortal fix without the Interploter trait a side from the original Immortal fix:yes:

Maksimus
11-30-2007, 23:34
For Those who have Interloper bug (that is not realy a bug.. but can ruin your game).

The files are being worked on.. please be patient
;)

Lgk
12-01-2007, 01:52
Can you just add an example how to add in night-fights and and bi options..?
Tellos specified what to do... but what about option + option + option
and how would the trait of nigh-fighter ? Will it be enabled for all or no?

But!!! The options bi are uor problem.. It is mentioned that it wont work when you just enable it due to faction elimination screens .... so... help
Read the damn thread pls! Repeat: try using "options +prebattle_night_battle_tickbox" instead of "options bi" in descr_strat. Supposedly "options +someoption" string enables just some specific bi features instead of them all.

As for night traits, i don't have my eb yet (hence, no eb txt files)! I test everything on XGM still.


For Those who have Interloper bug (that is not realy a bug.. but can ruin your game). Here is a download link that has Interloper Fix (these files are with Immortall Fix and deleted Interloper traits)
I believe deleting traits is just as bad for savegames as adding traits (even if there aren't immediate & obvious problems). Btw, did you ever tried adding any new traits ("immortal" in this case) to the end of trait section? If that won't help, nothing will. Time to start new campaign.

Maksimus
12-01-2007, 02:32
I have been able to enable Night battles on Alex.exe and eb 1 !

The explanation of how do do this will be included in the main post.. I would do it right now but.. It's just that there are still some issues Lgt and myself are working on... like.. how to fix negative interploter effect without having to delete them.. And because the trait system is save-game compatible It is very likely the next download link will be without negative unrest points (traits) and when we fix is out -- by this a call to help anyone that can help... Then the new upload link will be enabled..

The testing is current.. so I will post here if there are any side-effect (and I am sure there ar non - this Alex.exe after Lgt's help is much more stable - In hours I got not One CTD and by now.. I don't need 2 minutes for my CPU to recovery after I exit EB)

In about 10 hours the manual explanation and a download link for this will be established. In short, the ''options bi, enabled'' in descr_start are working very well.. So it is possible that right by those 'basic' download links for ones that would like only to use advanced ALX and BI features there would also be some advanced options (acctually *txt files to download) for added 'shield wall's' or any other BI feature (for example.. In EB descr_start, Not one familly member has a trait that enables him to fight at night so those traits should be added by hand..)

Any suggestions are openminded

thank you all!

Redmeth
12-01-2007, 09:19
Does the interloper trait still act crazy even when starting a new campaign?

konny
12-01-2007, 11:52
Acctually If anyone has that prob and find it to be so ..hardy.. in a way.. I will delete That trait (Interloper) and will make the game work without it...

That would be further messing around with the traits and just lead to the next problems. Any changes, even the smallest, to the trait file will mess up the entire thing in savegames.

It seems to me that the traits acquired by characters are saved somewhere and read line by line by the engine. I had once added command starts to different traits. That worked without problems in new campaigns, but messed up all the traits of the characters in older saves.

juba1
12-01-2007, 13:30
Does the interloper trait still act crazy even when starting a new campaign?

i dont have the interloper problem with my new campaign:elephant:

but all my client ruler dont have the same saison trait that familiy member (ex: client ruler has spring trait and family member has summer, this is really not important)

Maksimus
12-01-2007, 14:11
:charge:
i dont have the interloper problem with my new campaign:elephant:

but all my client ruler dont have the same saison trait that familiy member (ex: client ruler has spring trait and family member has summer, this is really not important)

Exellent! ... I will now upload the files and explain how to modd manually!

Maksimus
12-01-2007, 17:57
I have updated the main post!:shame:

Tellos Athenaios
12-01-2007, 18:01
Actually the discrepancy between Season traits of various Agent types (I.e. family members, generals) is quite worrysome since it implies the entire system of movement penalties and bonuses is screwed up... Whether or not this has any more sinister consequence (scripted triggers) apart from yet another trait bug (the Babylonian Years festival) remains to be discovered *but* I wouldn't be surprised if the Saka reforms didn't work properly anymore.

Maksimus
12-01-2007, 19:01
Actually the discrepancy between Season traits of various Agent types (I.e. family members, generals) is quite worrysome since it implies the entire system of movement penalties and bonuses is screwed up... Whether or not this has any more sinister consequence (scripted triggers) apart from yet another trait bug (the Babylonian Years festival) remains to be discovered *but* I wouldn't be surprised if the Saka reforms didn't work properly anymore.

We can just wait and see... But, to add.. that - these advanced features for Alex.exe are realy in beta stage.. We should have at least 5-7 gamers that would push trough these issues and post here if there are any problems.. Anyways, I think that when EB 1.1 comes out We would be able to use not only night battles but also some advanced BI features - like.. Hording, shielldwalls, or other..:beam: Anyway, EB 1.1 will not be save-gaem compatible so..

Redmeth
12-01-2007, 23:07
Actually the discrepancy between Season traits of various Agent types (I.e. family members, generals) is quite worrysome since it implies the entire system of movement penalties and bonuses is screwed up... Whether or not this has any more sinister consequence (scripted triggers) apart from yet another trait bug (the Babylonian Years festival) remains to be discovered *but* I wouldn't be surprised if the Saka reforms didn't work properly anymore.

The problem with the client rulers season trait being off is known and to fix it would require adding a few thousand lines of code if not more so it was chosen to leave it that way as it would be a hit to performance in no way proportional with the yield.

I think the Babylonian New Year trait was changed so that it no longer causes problems.

Maksimus
12-01-2007, 23:14
so... did anyone tried the instructions yet?:juggle2:

Blazing141
12-02-2007, 02:37
Gonna do it later tonight and let you know.

Maksimus
12-02-2007, 02:51
Thank.. you.. Then post so we can all see that someone made it.. and then if there are any probs I'll just fix it during the day :chucks:

CutLunch
12-02-2007, 07:29
so... did anyone tried the instructions yet?:juggle2:
I tried downloading your group of files (most recent batch). You forgot the one called chat_filter.san (unless you left that out for a reason), but other than that it all seems to work perfectly. I haven't seen any night battles yet, but don't have any high-star generals. The campaign AI seems to amalgamate armies better as you said in your notes. Looking forward to occasional big battles and not pissy little sieges the AI normally hassles you with every turn.

Redmeth
12-02-2007, 09:13
I see you've used this command in descr_strat

options bi, night_battles_enabled

Can someone report if they got the faction eliminated pics to show up correctly when they eliminate a faction of course :beam:

Blazing141
12-02-2007, 11:30
I installed as directed...now I have a CTD after faction selection screen on new campaign...reinstalling everything and will report back.

Maksimus
12-02-2007, 16:55
I installed as directed...now I have a CTD after faction selection screen on new campaign...reinstalling everything and will report back.

It's better to use download link.. Really the manual might be hard to implement because there are some Trrigers and traits that are in EB script's already - but just need to be 'unlocked'.. And because Some traits and descriptions in *txt files that you need to 'hunt down' and because some need to be added.. well.. there is nothing to help here

It's more likely that for EB 1.1 all will be more stable and clear! :shame:

Blazing141
12-02-2007, 17:03
Got it working but as the poster above mentions, the "faction eliminated" screen picture doesnt appear, instead you just get a box wit text...

Also, while I have the box "try a night battle" appearing, the game wont let me click on it to actually do a night battle--do I need to have a particular trait before that I can check the box and night batter becomes selectable?

Maksimus
12-02-2007, 17:05
I tried downloading your group of files (most recent batch). You forgot the one called chat_filter.san (unless you left that out for a reason), but other than that it all seems to work perfectly. I haven't seen any night battles yet, but don't have any high-star generals. The campaign AI seems to amalgamate armies better as you said in your notes. Looking forward to occasional big battles and not pissy little sieges the AI normally hassles you with every turn.

Oh... yes.. I have ..:laugh4: I forgot to add it.. .. anyways.. You should have an option to use and try a 'night-fight' with any (I think) general.. Or if not - then he should gain some victories before he start's a battle. Pyrros can make night battles from the start for example (and he has no night_fighter trait)...so:shrug:

Maksimus
12-02-2007, 17:09
Got it working but as the poster above mentions, the "faction eliminated" screen picture doesnt appear, instead you just get a box wit text...

Also, while I have the box "try a night battle" appearing, the game wont let me click on it to actually do a night battle--do I need to have a particular trait before that I can check the box and night batter becomes selectable?

I think you just need one better general, Like I said.. Pyrros can do it right away and so can Gonatas.. I think that some trait like 'good commander' or .. you know, win a couple of battles and the try again:yes:

Maksimus
12-02-2007, 17:11
I see you've used this command in descr_strat

options bi, night_battles_enabled

Can someone report if they got the faction eliminated pics to show up correctly when they eliminate a faction of course :beam:

Saw it? The info form Blazing141? The faction eliminated pics are not the prob any more - I think that if they can't be shown - the ALX.exe engine just pop's up the text... Realy.. Alexander is god for EB:laugh4:

Redmeth
12-02-2007, 17:45
Well they were not causing CTDs or anything just preventing the pics from showing up,
I'm not too big on night battles anyway they were very rare in those times, mostly skirmishes or raids were carried at night. Think about it for a Hellenistic faction to mantain the order needed for the line of phalanxes at night would've been close to impossible I believe, and for horse-archers to shoot in the night....

Most important thing is that the immortal FMs are gone.

Maksimus
12-02-2007, 18:23
Well they were not causing CTDs or anything just preventing the pics from showing up,
I'm not too big on night battles anyway they were very rare in those times, mostly skirmishes or raids were carried at night. Think about it for a Hellenistic faction to mantain the order needed for the line of phalanxes at night would've been close to impossible I believe, and for horse-archers to shoot in the night....

Most important thing is that the immortal FMs are gone.

Yes, I don't like night-battles much either.. That is just one + to EB 1 on Alex.exe, But what I am waithing for is Lgt to see if he can make some features from BI into Alex.. like swimming, or hordes.. or shiellwall (whic is ment anyways for some units in EB but due to RTW.exe engine limits it could not be implemented..).. And I am sure night battles were often in the Far East and nomad lands.. That is all the way from East Europe to China.. And even Germania and Gaul.. so.. For greeks I agree.. And if you are to play one night-fight with phalanx you will see that IT IS realy hard to command.. so, that is 'value' for me..

Anyway, If you are just to 'check' ALX.exe on EB for just 10 turns... you will be happy.. I can't give you data for campaign speed because I don't know how to measure it.. but!

My CPU is in very 'lighter' ambient and more friendly environment after I use Alex engine for my EB game :slomo:

Blazing141
12-02-2007, 21:38
I know its impolitic but has anyone have any idea about 1.1 and when it might be coming out? The AI is definitely better using Alex, BTW. Maks is right about that.

Maksimus
12-02-2007, 23:06
Oh... I hope it will be New Year's present from EB team to the fans!~D
In that case.. I will make EB tattoo on my PC! :birthday2:

And can anyone confirm that he had night battles ok...with any general .)

konny
12-03-2007, 01:02
No, not night battles, but have you seen that the AI is able to retrain units with the ALX.exe?

I had watched some AI moves and the Epeirote had about 1/2 stack in Taras. Of this they moved out all save one (suposingly) unit to fight some Roman invasion armies. After these battles the 1/2 stack was drasticly reduced and the few suvivors moved back to Taras. I thought they were done for because they had not build any new units in the town meanwhile.

But no! The very next turn they had 7 units with exact full strength and a lot of chevrons in Taras. Either the AI had retrained them (what it is not able to do with the RTW or BI.ex) or it is cheating against itself and had beamed them form the mainland (they don't have any ships). But even then they should have been some units understrength in Taras.

I have checked some towns of the AI and all units were full strength there, save for the lowest class units like Pantodapoi, archers and the like. Now I understand how the Maks have been able to hold Pella for the last 25 years against KH, Epeiros and Getai: they have some full strength double gold chevron elite in there that they are retraining constantly between two attacks.

MiniMe
12-03-2007, 01:15
...but have you seen that the AI is able to retrain units with the ALX.exe?
.
Konny, you sure about that? AI is not retraining units in Medieval II, that's for sure...

konny
12-03-2007, 01:18
I have no other explanation for the magical 1-turn recovery of AI armies in one city.

Maksimus
12-03-2007, 02:00
No, not night battles, but have you seen that the AI is able to retrain units with the ALX.exe?

I had watched some AI moves and the Epeirote had about 1/2 stack in Taras. Of this they moved out all save one (suposingly) unit to fight some Roman invasion armies. After these battles the 1/2 stack was drasticly reduced and the few suvivors moved back to Taras. I thought they were done for because they had not build any new units in the town meanwhile.

But no! The very next turn they had 7 units with exact full strength and a lot of chevrons in Taras. Either the AI had retrained them (what it is not able to do with the RTW or BI.ex) or it is cheating against itself and had beamed them form the mainland (they don't have any ships). But even then they should have been some units understrength in Taras.

I have checked some towns of the AI and all units were full strength there, save for the lowest class units like Pantodapoi, archers and the like. Now I understand how the Maks have been able to hold Pella for the last 25 years against KH, Epeiros and Getai: they have some full strength double gold chevron elite in there that they are retraining constantly between two attacks.

W...What?! Are you sure :inquisitive: I always thought that it was just my imagination .. now I am sure it is your's too :wall:

My god! That is the reason I ended my campaign with Epeiros.. I never had enough army to run down those AS in Sardis... They had large wall, royal barracks and they were apparently retraining the troops! I mean.. I know that after killing two of their armies at Pergamum they just could not get another one.. Then when they 'it seems now' retrained some units - they had another army in the next turn! I really thought I did not see one army coming form the East - but NO! Now I am sure it was retraining :furious3: ~:angry:

Anyway.. konny.. did you noticed and saw that AI is really training the best unit's it has.. I mean, do I played maybe more EB on Alex then other gamers here... but, after AI gains the Army barracks and/or royal in the east.. you can not.. I will say that again - you can not beat him! Neither AS or Aegypt.. It is clearly impossible!!!

EBBS script is not a friend of EB on Alex.exe! And even those construction or share systems either.. You know that in about 250 bc.. Almost all of Aegypt or Seleucid towns have Royal or Army barracks?! I know! I have reached Alexandria and Babylon with Epeiros spy!

Some City Mod or 'balance' of construction times or balance of EBBS script is needed for EB 1.1, even if it means adding Army Barracks to all capitols and then make Main barracks construction time like 5 or 10 times longer.. because AI is going to win either way.. Unless you cheat!:thumbsdown: ...

I am working right now on one basic balance mod for EB on Alex.. I just can't take this hard Alex AI engine with EB way's that are made for RTW engine.. It will mess your game.. you will see after 250 bc:whip:

Felix Constantus Alexander
12-03-2007, 02:04
This sounds Great!

I'm waiting on my copy of Alexander to try this out, just gotta wait 'til it arrives :dizzy2:

I was thinking one way to test if the AI is retraining units is to check if the population changes in the city, I'd test it on the huge unit size setting.

Is there a way to check a city's pop without a spy or a unit next to it?

Maksimus
12-03-2007, 02:11
This sounds Great!

I'm waiting on my copy of Alexander to try this out, just gotta wait 'til it arrives :dizzy2:

I was thinking one way to test if the AI is retraining units is to check if the population changes in the city, I'd test it on the huge unit size setting.

Is there a way to check a city's pop without a spy or a unit next to it?

Well... you know, I am not sure, It's a big surprise to me that my friend konny noticed this after I thought for a long time that it is either a bug or EBBS script that trrigers some armies to jsut pop-up!... The prob is that now that we know that - 'now' is the time to test .. because I am seriously doubting that AI is retraining troops!:yes:

So.. one can now see some situation in Campaign Map.. and then he could just follow the AI moves.. I never did that before really, I most start now.. but with a new campaign that has Immortal fix from the start!:coffeenews:

Maksimus
12-03-2007, 03:15
Just to add a comment about the night battles.

First of all, Even in BI descr_start.txt only one general has 'NightBattleCapable 1' trait from the start .. In EB there are none..

So either you can play night-fights at the start with Pyrros (that has enough traits to pull that of right away, but 'no' he has no 'NightBattleCapable' trait) or any general that is 'strong' with his traits at the game start.
OR you can open eb/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_start.txt

And add 'NightBattleCapable' trait to anyone! That should look like this:


; ####################################################################
; ######### Start of factions section
; ####################################################################


; ---------------------------------------------------------
; ######### seleucide - SPQR (Romani) #########
; ---------------------------------------------------------

faction seleucid, balanced caesar
denari 5000
settlement
{
level city
region Latium2

year_founded 0
population 8770
settlement_tax 51
plan_set default_set
faction_creator seleucid
building
{
type core_building governors_palace
}
building
{
type uniques1 oneone
}
building
{
type defenses stone_wall
}
building
{
type amphitheatres game_field
}
building
{
type equestrian stables
}
building
{
type healing doctor
}
;WG building
; {
; type Barracks_A city_barracks_A1
; }
building
{
type smith blacksmith
}
;WG building
; {
; type hinterland_roads roads
; }
building
{
type port_buildings shipwright
}
building
{
type farms2 grain_silo
}
building
{
type market market
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms+2
}
building
{
type temple_of_governors temple_of_governors_large_temple
}
}

settlement
{
level large_town
region Etruria

year_founded 0
population 3980
settlement_tax 51
plan_set default_set
faction_creator seleucid
building
{
type core_building governors_villa
}
;WG building
; {
; type Barracks_A militia_barracks_A1
; }
building
{
type healing doctor
}
building
{
type amphitheatres game_field
}
building
{
type defenses wooden_wall
}
building
{
type smith blacksmith
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms+1
}
building
{
type farms2 granary
}
building
{
type port_buildings port
}
building
{
type market market
}
;WG building
; {
; type hinterland_roads roads
; }
building
{
type temple_of_governors temple_of_governors_temple
}
}

settlement
{
level town
region Umbria

year_founded 0
population 1950
settlement_tax 51
plan_set default_set
faction_creator seleucid
building
{
type core_building governors_house
}
building
{
type defenses wooden_pallisade
}
building
{
type amphitheatres game_field
}
building
{
type port_buildings port
}
building
{
type navy_port naval_bay
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms
}
building
{
type market trader
}
building
{
type temple_of_fun temple_of_fun_shrine
}
}

settlement
{
level city
region Campania

year_founded 0
population 6740
settlement_tax 51
plan_set default_set
faction_creator seleucid
building
{
type core_building governors_palace
}
building
{
type uniques3 threetwo
}
building
{
type defenses wooden_wall
}
;WG building
; {
; type Barracks_A militia_barracks_A1
; }
building
{
type smith blacksmith
}
;WG building
; {
; type hinterland_roads roads
; }
building
{
type port_buildings port
}
building
{
type navy_port naval_bay
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms+1
}
building
{
type farms2 granary
}
building
{
type healing doctor
}
building
{
type amphitheatres game_field
}
building
{
type temple_of_farming temple_of_farming_temple
}
building
{
type hinterland_uniques2 uniqueroad1
}
}

settlement
{
level town
region Apulia

year_founded 0
population 1110
settlement_tax 51
plan_set default_set
faction_creator seleucid
building
{
type core_building governors_house
}
building
{
type defenses wooden_pallisade
}
building
{
type hinterland_farms farms
}
building
{
type market trader
}
;WG building
; {
; type Barracks_A muster_field_A
; }
building
{
type amphitheatres game_field
}
building
{
type port_buildings port
}
;WG building
; {
; type hinterland_roads roads
; }
building
{
type temple_of_forge temple_of_forge_shrine
}
}

; City: Rome
; Region: Latium
; --------------------
character Manivs Romanvs, named character, leader, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 65, , x 95, y 127
traits NaturalIntelligence 4 , NaturalCharisma 5 , NaturalEnergy 3 , Temperament 2 , Selflessness 3 , Loyalty 4 , TurnsAlive 6 , ManivscvrivsBiography 1 , Plebeian 1 , notPlebeianTribune 1 , notPlebeianAedile 1 , notQuaestor 1 , notPraetor 1 , notConsul 1 , NovusHomo 1 , Censor 1 , CommandExperience 4 , GoodTactician 1 , GoodLeader 1 , GoodDefender 1 , PoliticsSkill 3 , GoodAdministrator 2 , Austere 1 , Disciplinarian 1 , YearsPassed 2, GensCvria 2 , CvrivsDentatvs 1, NightBattleCapable 1
ancillaries family_retainer

This is just an example.. In my opinion that NightBattleCapable 1 trait should only be given to the Barbarian and Nomad factions at the game start.. After EB 1.1 comes out, there will be one small balance mod for EB that is using Alex.exe .. Due to the much more advanced ALX.exe engine - The way EB gameplay is mented to be played by the EB team is now in question, at least for me that had some issues even for EB on RTW.exe - but I managed to play it anyways.. But after I used Alex.exe for some time I gain doubts :shrug:

konny
12-03-2007, 11:11
W...What?! Are you sure :inquisitive: I always thought that it was just my imagination .. now I am sure it is your's too :wall:

So, it is at least two of us ;-)

I think, I had not ended the turn in which the Epeirote army miraclous recovered, if so I will post a screen of what I have seen. I have also seen that same miracle in Pella: the garrison there was depleted to the strength of 1/4 stack, but when the enemies gave Makedonia a break of two turns the garrison was again a full stack. Not enough time to raise so many new units to merge them with the original garrison, and they didn't have any field armies or nearby towns to bring in reinforcements.


EBBS script is not a friend of EB on Alex.exe!

I am running my own money script anyways.

Redmeth
12-03-2007, 12:20
If they're retraining and abusing perhaps you should lower the campaign difficulty, we were thinking of changing the recommendation from VH/M to H/M.

I know that on M/M for example the AI does not recruit mercs. So maybe on H/M or M/M they won't retrain, AI doing mass retraining is an abuse as they often get away from battles with a few troops left of different kinds...

EDIT: What battle difficulty are you playing on, seeing AI elites is good but playing VH or even H against them will mostly frustrate you, not improve the difficulty...

konny
12-03-2007, 13:03
I know that on M/M for example the AI does not recruit mercs. So maybe on H/M or M/M they won't retrain,

I am playing M/M....

Maksimus
12-03-2007, 16:46
If they're retraining and abusing perhaps you should lower the campaign difficulty, we were thinking of changing the recommendation from VH/M to H/M.

I know that on M/M for example the AI does not recruit mercs. So maybe on H/M or M/M they won't retrain, AI doing mass retraining is an abuse as they often get away from battles with a few troops left of different kinds...

EDIT: What battle difficulty are you playing on, seeing AI elites is good but playing VH or even H against them will mostly frustrate you, not improve the difficulty...

I am using VH/VH... And I want AI to be VH on campaign, that is as smart as possible and EBBS script can be altered.. But the point in my post was not the difficulty as such.
Well maybe VH for battle is somewhat really to much (because of +7 hidden moral and attack to your enemy), because you get to watch your elites slained by some native low-end units - and you don't want to look at that :no:

My remarks were really about EB balance due to the game engine of ALex.exe
Because - ''Due to the much more advanced ALX.exe engine - The way EB gameplay is mented to be played by the EB team is now in question''
And that is true.. You see.. Alex is using it's options much better, even one EASY difficulty on ALX.exe is compared to MEDIUM on RTW.exe or Even HARD!

That is because ''Human has a brain and AI money and buildings'' solutins are widely excepted by various EB team members that answered my questions about EB balance. That is NOT a solutin for Alex.exe engine and AI it uses!

In EB game based on ALex.exe - it is really important to make Human and CPU more even.. And it is not acceptable for AI to have army and royal barracks in all of it's settlements until the age of 250BC:no: Especially that remark goes for Seleucid's and Aegypt!...

There should be numerous solutions 'or just one':laugh4:

Redmeth
12-03-2007, 18:21
Working on money scripts is really a delicate thing when you think you found a balance it may be just a fluke etc, you need patience to run a lot of tests.
Some tweaks to balance and the money script for 1.1 are coming but nothing spectacular.

If you cut the AI's money he'll stall and be engulfed by other factions, if you give him few barely enough the fool spams militia which is bad, too much money usually leads to a better experience but too many stacks for some factions like AS, Ptolies if you add retraining to that it's clearly hell.

First the EB team doesn't officially support Ales so If the Alex engine is all that you say it is (I'm sure it's better but I'm a bit skeptic about how much better) and you want to find a good balanced script for Alex make a small team or just collaboration talk to others interested in Alex or who worked with money scripts before as this kind of stuff needs a lot of testing to get right.

And really you shouldn't play on VH battle, did you play 0.81 btw are the AS spamming more stacks that in that version? The problem wouldn't be that they're a lot of elites among them but the fact that you can't destroy them before they retrain them.

konny
12-03-2007, 20:18
I think that should proof the AI ability to retrain units with the ALX.exe:

https://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6545/retrainao5.jpg

You see Taras one turn after the garrison was reduced to nearly nothing by fighting. You can see that all units are full strength. That is first of all impossible to get with merging units, because you will always have a very small unit of each type left.

The red marked units have a lot of experince and are supposingly the forces that fought the Romans the turns before. The last one (yellow) seems to be the unit that has been raised in this turn.

And here is one more:

https://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7269/retrain2tf7.jpg

This is Alexandreia-Ariana a few turns after it has been conquered by Baktria. There had been two MICs, the AS factional one is useless for Baktria, but with the regional MIC they are able to raise/retrain the marked units.

Now, see that all units that can be retrained by this MIC are full strength (green marked), while all those that cannot be raised there (red) are understrength. May be they had raised some of them meanwhile, but cetainly not the silver chevron archers. And there had been no merging only, because that must have - again - left some units understrength. I think that the last two (yellow) were raised since conquest because they seemed not to have been part of the conquest force.

Redmeth
12-03-2007, 20:29
That's a bit too much for to handle both for the player and for a weaker AI faction and coupled with the pop replenishment script and the money script makes the AI-owned large factions beasts...

And you say you play on M/M... it's nice to see the AI do it but it will create too many battles that are too tedious... I don't know why they didn't limit retraining to 1 unit or hell max 3.... bummer.

Sarkiss
12-03-2007, 20:38
sorry, didnt go trough the whole thread... does AI retrain with 1.5?
i noticed that when a city (Ptolies) with unrest gets some population, soldiers killed the garison would be back to its full strength the next turn. i play with BI though, is it the same on 1.5?

MiniMe
12-03-2007, 21:59
I have a Collector's Total War edition that includes STW, STW-MI, MTW, MTW-VI, RTW, RTW-BI, stupid bonus material, and, what is of most impornace, Rome Total War - Alexander.
On my previous computer I had no problems installing it. On my new one installation procedure halts with message "error -1".
Anybody familiar with the problem?

2Konny: I feel total noob to ask it, but how do you enable "perfect_spy" in 1.0?

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 00:10
sorry, didnt go trough the whole thread... does AI retrain with 1.5?
i noticed that when a city (Ptolies) with unrest gets some population, soldiers killed the garison would be back to its full strength the next turn. i play with BI though, is it the same on 1.5?

You should just read the first thread.. but, ok.. IT DOES:yes: To install Alexander you need RTW + 1.5 patch even without BI.. so yes. It is also save-game compatible with BI and RTW EB 1 save-games..:beam:

konny
12-04-2007, 00:39
That's a bit too much for to handle both for the player and for a weaker AI faction and coupled with the pop replenishment script and the money script makes the AI-owned large factions beasts...

It is first of all a problem for the AI itself. The human player will most likely hunt down all enemy units on the tactical screen and take towns in the first attempt. The AI on the other uses autocalc, where always a number of enemies survive. And the AI usually needs three or four attempts to take a town.

That makes every province that has survived an assault or two a real hard nut to break. I see it the last now 30 years in Pella. It is constantly under attack by three strong factions but they are not able to take it because Makedonia has several tripple gold chevron full strength elite units inside.

It doesn't do so much on the AI field armies, because these often stay away from towns very long; and with the EB recruitement system units can only be retrained in their parent provinces (can be quite a lot, if you are for example moving an army of Hoplites around the Eastern Mediterranian).

So, no need to "panic" or change the script. The player must be aware that, using the ALX.exe, he has to strike fast, hard and brutal; otherwise he will breed the enemy an experinced crack army. RTW:Alexander was a game in which the player was expected to blitz the AI. Therefore, I think, was the AI retraining implemented. So, its missing in RTW and BI is not a bug, it's a feature to make the game easyer.


2Konny: I feel total noob to ask it, but how do you enable "perfect_spy" in 1.0?

It's in the EB-Script, quite to the top. Delete the ";" and you'll have him everytime you launch the script.

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 00:51
That's a bit too much for to handle both for the player and for a weaker AI faction and coupled with the pop replenishment script and the money script makes the AI-owned large factions beasts...

And you say you play on M/M... it's nice to see the AI do it but it will create too many battles that are too tedious... I don't know why they didn't limit retraining to 1 unit or hell max 3.... bummer.
Even if you are to use 'vanilla' EBBS for Alex on EB 1.1 - it would not be the problem as it is.:no:

The prob is ''how to keep pace'' with CPU in terms of ARMY numbers and quality! Because, anyways, you can't keep pace in infrastructure constructions due to the EBBS.. but! -Army is something you need to win, and you don't have much money due to the current EB team politics - that is based on RTW.exe engine and ''slow motion''... :whip:

Most of players realy focus on their Army needs and on enemies Armies throughout the whole game. And because of very small construction time for barracks couple of factions that have 4+ regions are going to win always - while you are going to go bankrupt (or win only if One millitary genius comes to help everyone:shame: )

So.. I think there are numerous solutions for Alex.exe engine to be more playable and for anyone... I will just type two now:

1) First; Make all factions have at least one (or more for large factions) army barracks in their capitols from the start! And then raise construction times for barracks in general to about 5 or 6 times..

That way, anyone that finds money (by sacking or great victories) could be able train nice units (even if it is only one) and the AI would not have EVERY town with Army or Royal barracks where he can train retrain elites all the time. This way, even if CPU has full stack's of army - it will be limited to medium of lower valueted units with maybe 10% of elites (let me add, that this way human has about 5 and CPU about 30% of elite units). And medium and native units you can kill. I have tested this and it is one clear solutin (note: construction times should be addressed for factional - not regional barracks)

2) Second; Make more money in stake for Human player so he does not have negative account in his next 2 turns. I have tested this by adding the +10 times value to resources - and that only allows some plus of about 850 minai for Makedonia per turn (for example) ... But there are other ways to add money..

Also, there are numerous versions of solving some nasty issues of this .. one can be City mod.. one can be EBBS script changes.. etc.. etc


Working on money scripts is really a delicate thing when you think you found a balance it may be just a fluke etc, you need patience to run a lot of tests.
Some tweaks to balance and the money script for 1.1 are coming but nothing spectacular.

If you cut the AI's money he'll stall and be engulfed by other factions, if you give him few barely enough the fool spams militia which is bad, too much money usually leads to a better experience but too many stacks for some factions like AS, Ptolies if you add retraining to that it's clearly hell.

First the EB team doesn't officially support Ales so If the Alex engine is all that you say it is (I'm sure it's better but I'm a bit skeptic about how much better) and you want to find a good balanced script for Alex make a small team or just collaboration talk to others interested in Alex or who worked with money scripts before as this kind of stuff needs a lot of testing to get right.

And really you shouldn't play on VH battle, did you play 0.81 btw are the AS spamming more stacks that in that version? The problem wouldn't be that they're a lot of elites among them but the fact that you can't destroy them before they retrain them.

I am very sorry to hear EB team does not support Alex.exe engine because this is just one formal way to use and play EB - I am sure all of use that use Alex.exe really support and care for EB team efforts and have the best wishes for all future developments of this wonderful RTW mod :shame:

And I am not sure for 0.81 and if you are skeptic about how much AI on Alex.exe is better - try it for 10 turns!:yes:

be well my friend!

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 00:59
And Konny.. Thank you for that post that proofs retraining. I haven't got the time to play my campaign for two days:bow:

konny
12-04-2007, 01:14
2) Second; Make more money in stake for Human player so he does not have negative account in his next 2 turns.

The situation with several factions is really odd when you won't make any money the first 20 turns and have to run around and fight. I think there can be some easy sollutions by rasing the game economy at game start - not dramaticly, but a little by adding a mine here and there, raising the population in this or that town, building a harbour or two etc.

That must not necessarily be in one of the players starting towns, but one that he has a fair chance to conquer very soon, like Pontos & Pergamon.


Changing the money script to your means is quite easy: Every money help has a cap. But that is very high, so lower it to, let's say, 5,000 or 10,000 mne (I have at 0, but that seems to be not enough with ALX.exe and VCs asingned). You'll see definitly a difference.

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 01:34
The situation with several factions is really odd when you won't make any money the first 20 turns and have to run around and fight. I think there can be some easy sollutions by rasing the game economy at game start - not dramaticly, but a little by adding a mine here and there, raising the population in this or that town, building a harbour or two etc.

That must not necessarily be in one of the players starting towns, but one that he has a fair chance to conquer very soon, like Pontos & Pergamon.

Changing the money script to your means is quite easy: Every money help has a cap. But that is very high, so lower it to, let's say, 5,000 or 10,000 mne (I have at 0, but that seems to be not enough with ALX.exe and VCs asingned). You'll see definitly a difference.

I agree, there should be changes made in that direction.. btw I have used your post-proof of retraining as one geat example in http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134572.. thread ..and, konny.. did you get my PM?

llib
12-04-2007, 02:38
Fair enough.. I saw more AI advance moves as for Campaign AI - And that one i Much - Much Better... The AI is Actually spreading... Ill post you a picture!:yes:
of familly members on the map so you see Baktria! There could only be dreams of that move into India without Alex..
puffff...
be well my friends!
Playing AS on VH Campaign with RTW, Baktria conquered two cities in India while at war with me (I was quite holding back in cities defense, but not able to go out for some time), so they flanked on campaign map and started to bribe my cities after conquering part of India ;-). So that is maybe matter of particular camplaign more than anything else...

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 03:26
Playing AS on VH Campaign with RTW, Baktria conquered two cities in India while at war with me (I was quite holding back in cities defense, but not able to go out for some time), so they flanked on campaign map and started to bribe my cities after conquering part of India ;-). So that is maybe matter of particular camplaign more than anything else...

You don't use Alex?.. Well, the bribing part is due to EBBS script and the fact that any level of palace can train diplomats (and that is not good)..
And, can you specify the year in wich Baktria took Indian provinces.. The one in this thread is 246bc...

Redmeth
12-04-2007, 08:52
It is first of all a problem for the AI itself. The human player will most likely hunt down all enemy units on the tactical screen and take towns in the first attempt. The AI on the other uses autocalc, where always a number of enemies survive. And the AI usually needs three or four attempts to take a town.

That makes every province that has survived an assault or two a real hard nut to break. I see it the last now 30 years in Pella. It is constantly under attack by three strong factions but they are not able to take it because Makedonia has several tripple gold chevron full strength elite units inside.

It doesn't do so much on the AI field armies, because these often stay away from towns very long; and with the EB recruitement system units can only be retrained in their parent provinces (can be quite a lot, if you are for example moving an army of Hoplites around the Eastern Mediterranian).

So, no need to "panic" or change the script. The player must be aware that, using the ALX.exe, he has to strike fast, hard and brutal; otherwise he will breed the enemy an experinced crack army. RTW:Alexander was a game in which the player was expected to blitz the AI. Therefore, I think, was the AI retraining implemented. So, its missing in RTW and BI is not a bug, it's a feature to make the game easyer.

I believe the AI is the one unable to cope with this too, I guess this accounts for the slow expansion Tellos noticed in a pic of an Alex campaign, the Romans would have a hell of a time taking Taras if they ever could, and in Gaul the civil war will probably be never won since autocalc gives such results. I believe Alex was you Alexander vs the computer Persian Empire and there was no computer vs computer action going on or very limited... Unless there's an exe switch to turn off retraining or some sort of option I'll stick to BI the AI expansion and different scenarios playing out are a good part of EB, and plus I like to roleplay and not have to fight a lot of battles each turn.

konny
12-04-2007, 11:38
I believe the AI is the one unable to cope with this too, I guess this accounts for the slow expansion Tellos noticed in a pic of an Alex campaign

I suppose that was more the result of Epeiros killing so many AI factions. I have a Casse campaign in the 240s with ALX.exe and there is a lot of more expansion on the map (screenshot tonight).


and plus I like to roleplay and not have to fight a lot of battles each turn.

I don't think that there are more battles for the human player, in particular because the AI is much more merging its stacks and does not have the money to raise more armies than with the BI.exe. The difference is that the AI armies are now much better - "You have the brain, the AI has the chevrons". :whip:

konny
12-04-2007, 11:40
I agree, there should be changes made in that direction.. btw I have used your post-proof of retraining as one geat example in http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=134572.. thread ..and, konny.. did you get my PM?

Yes, you have a PM.

Redmeth
12-04-2007, 12:38
Interesting konny, looking forward to those screenshots. I'm curious about how strong the Seleucid and Ptolemies are in 240.

I'm interested in this but sadly don't have the time or the free HDD space to keep multiple versions of EB. I haven't played a campaign since the beginning of summer, modding is appealing cause you can make changes to the game but on the other hand the moment you feel there's something wrong you stop playing and start changing it thus abandoning your campaing. I keep planning a great Getai campaign for when EB will be complete, but it's been hard to get myself to start it knowing that the project was not 100% complete yet, I hope 1.1 will also bring me the peace I need to give myself the ultimate EB for RTW experience that I contributed to this project for. :yes:

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 15:57
You can contributed to this project to... If EB team is allowing it? What do you think..?? Konny and I and Lgt are wanting to work on this when 1.1 comes.. can you help?? My neighbor :beam: !

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 16:00
Yes, you have a PM.

Excellent! .. :bow:

Gerhard
12-04-2007, 18:55
On my previous computer I had no problems installing it. On my new one installation procedure halts with message "error -1".
Anybody familiar with the problem?


The ALEX-installer has a bug. It checks the drive C for enough discspace, regardless of the installationdrive.

Fortunately you dont have to install ALEX to play EB on ALEX. The only files that are needed are chat-filter.san and the RomeTW-ALX.exe.

The exe can be directly copied from the CD.
chat-filter.san is packed in the CAB files on the CD. CAB-extractors can be found on the net, i used a tool called "i6comp".

Hope that helps.

cheers
Gerhard

Redmeth
12-04-2007, 22:59
You can contributed to this project to... If EB team is allowing it? What do you think..?? Konny and I and Lgt are wanting to work on this when 1.1 comes.. can you help?? My neighbor :beam: !

Sure, I guess I could help you guys but it depends on what your scope is and what you want to do, I'm not for major changes to infrastructure or stuff like that and I also worked on too much money script stuff to last me at least a year :beam: . But I'm interested in trying EB with Alex when 1.1 comes out for sure and if you guys hope to improve the gameplay and the experience it provides without turning it into something else then I'll see what I can help with.

Maksimus
12-04-2007, 23:26
The ALEX-installer has a bug. It checks the drive C for enough discspace, regardless of the installationdrive.

Fortunately you dont have to install ALEX to play EB on ALEX. The only files that are needed are chat-filter.san and the RomeTW-ALX.exe.

The exe can be directly copied from the CD.
chat-filter.san is packed in the CAB files on the CD. CAB-extractors can be found on the net, i used a tool called "i6comp".

Hope that helps.

cheers
Gerhard

It does help really it's just that it is not that easy to make post like yours in the main post.. see, I never used CAB .. and tell you the truth I am not sure if the whole engine is just in *exe.. so.. I am no expert at that.. but thank you very much

konny
12-04-2007, 23:52
Interesting konny, looking forward to those screenshots. I'm curious about how strong the Seleucid and Ptolemies are in 240.


https://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3482/236aq2.jpg
https://img464.imageshack.us/img464/5791/233yt3.jpg

Human player: Casse
ALX.exe
Difficulty: M/M
Money script: Konny's for EB 1.0
Victory towns assigned: Yes
descr_strat: changed

(so, probably the most "irregular" EB conditons you can play)

Somme comments:

The Victory Conditions seems to have an impact on the Roman AI. They had conquered Taras in 272 BC, Rhegion short thereafter. Then they went for the Northern towns, but did not go on in the North when they lost Taras by rebellion a couple of years ago. They even managed to lose Capua to the crack Epeirote garrison in Taras, but took it again in 234 BC. Now they are going again for Taras. They had also attacked Messana, causing the scripted war with Karthago. But since the Poeni refuse to fight there is nothing going on on Sicily.

I am a bit worried about the Romans becuase they have the smallest army of all factions. I thought my money script responsible for that, but they have some 25,000 mne cash and top level barracks in all towns. But may be they even need more. I will change that script on the weekend.


Another one who seems to be much influenced by the Victory Conditions is AS, but in a negative way. They allready hold so many VC towns from the start that they are not really defending themselves. I think, that is reason, because I hardly see any AS armies but strong garrisons everywhere. Something that has to be changed too.

Baktria and Armenia are pushing into AS territory and leave the steppe alone, that's fine too.

Definitly a result of the ALX.exe and the retraining is the existence of Makedonia at all. They are under constant attack by Epeiros, KH and Getai for now about 40 years, and were not only able to hold Pella but to expand as well (what had them brought a war with Pontos, BTW). The same is for Epeiros@Taras.

So, if we would make a building that allows the Eleutheroi to retrain their forces in specific towns, we wouldn't need any scripted Zombee stacks to prevent the AI from expanding in those regions with the ALX.exe. The human player will be able to take these towns and, if he wishes, build a Roman Empire along the Baltic Sea. The AI can't do so because it is making the garrison with every failed attack stronger.

Of course, that should not be in all provinces, only in those along the Danube or in the Alps that we don't want the AI to conquer.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 00:20
Konny, can you just add what is that you 'use' on top of the EB vanilla *txt?
What exactly... in the script and/or in the your game... I thought Redmeth wanted the vanilla EB on Alex.exe screens?:inquisitive: no?

konny
12-05-2007, 00:49
As for the money script, that is not so much different to the (new) EB money script, but uses more extreme values and no time progression. But I am going to change that anyways and link it to the Victory Conditons, using values that are closer to the EB standards.

See also: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=92691

The Victory Conditions were a discovery by JMRC, that I had picked up some time ago. Callicles, MiniMe and me are testing several settings to influence the direction of AI expansion. The results are promising and because it is RTW 1.5 compatible, the EB team might consider to make their own in the future (at least that's what was posted in the respective thread by team members).

See also: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86313

The changes in descr_strat mainly influence the start of the game. In the 230s still is important the reduced rebell spawn rate (now about 1 random rebell army every 10 years on the entire map) and the changed priorities for AI aggression, these were set for the most factions against the rebells in the original EB version.

See also: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1765036&postcount=80

For the rebell spawning, I am thinking on replacing the random rebells with real rebell armies, including FM, that pop up when public order falls under a specific value in a given province. But I don't know if checking public order by script is possible at all.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 01:04
As for the money script, that is not so much different to the (new) EB money script, but uses more extreme values and no time progression. But I am going to change that anyways and link it to the Victory Conditons, using values that are closer to the EB standards.

See also: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=92691

The Victory Conditions were a discovery by JMRC, that I had picked up some time ago. Callicles, MiniMe and me are testing several settings to influence the direction of AI expansion. The results are promising and because it is RTW 1.5 compatible, the EB team might consider to make their own in the future (at least that's what was posted in the respective thread by team members).

See also: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=86313

The changes in descr_strat mainly influence the start of the game. In the 230s still is important the reduced rebell spawn rate (now about 1 random rebell army every 10 years on the entire map) and the changed priorities for AI aggression, these were set for the most factions against the rebells in the original EB version.

See also: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1765036&postcount=80

For the rebell spawning, I am thinking on replacing the random rebells with real rebell armies, including FM, that pop up when public order falls under a specific value in a given province. But I don't know if checking public order by script is possible at all.

Ok, can you test that script with Casse on VH/VH of VH(campaign)/M and just End-turn for 50 turns or so.. and then post ? I just think that Aegypt is too strong here.. really.. can you do something about that?

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 01:32
NOT ACTIVE

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=94861

Spoofa
12-05-2007, 01:51
You cant program the AI, the only thing you can do is deny or give them money, either way one of them is going to win, that's not even that bad really, the Ptolemies did historically beat the Selucids back to babylon IIRC.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 02:10
https://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5485/800pxptolemaicempirewi4.png (https://imageshack.us)
https://img372.imageshack.us/img372/6585/800pxeasthem200bcwebsmoa6.jpg (https://imageshack.us)

The first is about 290bc ad the second is in 200bc...and note here about the Syrian Wars.. the Wiki source for this short copy-past issue

First Syrian War (274-271 BC)
A decade into his rule, Ptolemy II faced Antiochus I, the Seleucid king who was trying to expand his empire's holdings in Syria and Anatolia. Ptolemy proved to be a forceful ruler and skilled general. In addition, his recent marriage to his court-wise sister Arsino&#235; had stabilized the volatile Egyptian court, allowing Ptolemy to successfully carry out the campaign. Some feminist interpretations of history even claim that it was Arsinoe's brains and talent which won the war.

The First Syrian War was a major victory for the Ptolemies. Antiochus took the Ptolemaic controlled areas in coastal Syria and southern Anatolia in his initial rush. Ptolemy reconquered these territories by 271 BC, extending Ptolemaic rule as far as Caria and into most of Cilicia. With Ptolemy's eye focused eastward, his half-brother Magas declared his province of Cyrenaica to be independent. It would remain independent until 250 BC, when it was reabsorbed into the Ptolemaic Kingdom.

Second Syrian War (260-253 BC)
Antiochus II succeeded his father in 261 BC, and thus began a new war for Syria. He reached an agreement with the current Antigonid king in Macedon, Antigonus Gonatas, who were also interested in pushing Ptolemy II out of the Aegean. With Macedon's support, Antiochus II launched an attack on Ptolemaic outposts in Asia.

Most of the information about the Second Syrian War has been lost. It is clear that Antigonus' fleet defeated Ptolemy's at the Battle of Cos in 256, diminishing Ptolemaic naval power. Ptolemy appears to have lost ground in Cilicia, Pamphylia, and Ionia, while Antiochus regained Miletus and Ephesus. Macedon's involvement in the war ceased when Antigonus became preoccupied by the rebellion of Corinth and Chalcis in 253 BC, possibly instigated by Ptolemy, as well as an increase in enemy activity along Macedon's northern frontier.

The war was concluded around 253 BC with the marriage of Antiochus to Ptolemy's daughter, Berenice Syra. Antiochus repudiated his previous wife, Laodice, and turned over substantial domain to her. He died in Ephesus in 246, poisoned by Laodice according to some sources. Ptolemy II died in the same year.

Third Syrian War (246-241 BC)
Also known as the Laodicean War, the Third Syrian War began with one of the many succession crisis that plagued the Hellenistic states. Antiochus II left two ambitious mothers, his repudiated wife Laodice and Ptolemy II's daughter Berenice Syra, in a competition to put their respective sons on the throne. Laodice claimed that Antiochus had named her son heir while on his deathbed, but Berenice argued that her newly born son was the legitimate heir. Berenice asked her brother Ptolemy III, the new Ptolemaic king, to come to Antioch and help place her son on the throne. When Ptolemy arrived, Berenice and her child had been assassinated.

Ptolemy declared war on Laodice's newly crowned son, Seleucus II, in 246 BC, and campaigned with great success. He won major victories over Seleucus in Syria and Anatolia, briefly occupied Antioch and, as a recent cuneiform discoveryproves, even reached Babylon. These victories were marred by the loss of the Cyclades to Antigonus Gonatas in the Battle of Andros. Seleucus had his own difficulties. His domineering mother asked him to grant co-regency to his younger brother, Antiochus Hierax, as well as rule over Seleucid territories in Anatolia. Antiochus promptly declared independence, undermining Seleucus' efforts to defend against Ptolemy.

In exchange for a peace in 241, Ptolemy was awarded new territories on the northern coast of Syria, including Seleucia Pieria, the port of Antioch. The Ptolemaic kingdom was at the height of its power.

Fourth Syrian War (219-217 BC)
Upon taking the Seleucid throne in 223 BC, Antiochus III (241–187 BC) set himself the task of restoring the lost imperial possessions of Seleucus I Nicator, which extended from Greco-Bactrian Kingdom to India in the east, the Hellespont in the north, and Syria in the south. By 221 BC, he had re-established Seleucid control over the eastern provinces and taken Anatolia back from his rebellious uncle Achaeus. The ambitious king turned his eyes toward Syria and Egypt.

Egypt had been significantly weakened by court intrigue and public unrest. The rule of the newly inaugurated Ptolemy IV Philopator (reigned 221-204 BC) began with the murder of queen-mother Berenice II. The young king quickly fell under the absolute influence of imperial courtiers. His ministers used their absolute power in their own self-interest, to the people's great chagrin.

Antiochus sought to take advantage of this chaotic situation. After an invasion in 221 BC failed to launch, he finally began the Fourth Syrian War in 219. He recaptured Seleucia Pieria as well as cities in Israel, amongst them Tyre. Rather than promptly invading Egypt, Antiochus waited in Israel for over a year, consolidating his new territories and listening to diplomatic proposals from the Ptolemaic kingdom.

Meanwhile, Ptolemy's minister Sosibius began recruiting and training an army. He recruited not only from the local Greek population, as Hellenistic armies generally were, but also from the native Egyptians, enrolling at least thirty thousand natives as phalangites. This novel choice paid off, but it would eventually have dire consequences for Ptolemaic stability. In the summer of 217, Ptolemy engaged and defeated the long-delayed Antiochus in the Battle of Raphia, the largest battle since the Battle of Ipsus.

Ptolemy's victory preserved his control over Coele-Syria, and the weak king declined to advance further into Antiochus' empire, even to retake Seleucia Pieria. The Ptolemaic kingdom would continue to weaken over the following years, suffering from economic problems and rebellion. Nationalist sentiment had developed among the native Egyptians who had fought at Raphia. Confident and well-trained, they broke from Ptolemy in what is known as the Egyptian Revolt, establishing their own kingdom in Upper Egypt which the Ptolemies finally reconquered around 185 BC.

Fifth Syrian War (202-195 BC)
The death of Ptolemy IV in 204 was followed by a bloody conflict over the regency as his heir, Ptolemy V, was just a child. The conflict began with the murder of the dead king's wife and sister Arsino&#235; by the ministers Agothocles and Sosibius. The fate of Sosibius is unclear, but Agothocles seems to have held the regency for some time until he was lynched by the volatile Alexandrian mob. The regency was passed from one adviser to another, and the kingdom was in a state of near anarchy.

Seeking to take advantage of this turmoil, Antiochus III staged a second invasion of Coele-Syria. He made an agreement with Philip V of Macedon to conquer and share the Ptolemies' overseas territories, although this greedy alliance did not last long. Antiochus quickly swept through the region. After a brief setback at Gaza, he delivered a crushing blow to the Ptolemies near the head of the River Jordan which earned him the important port of Sidon.

In 200 BC, Roman emissaries came to Philip and Antiochus demanding that they refrain from invading Egypt. The Romans would suffer no disruption of the import of grain from Egypt, key to supporting the massive population in Italy. As neither monarch had planned to invade Egypt itself, they willingly complied to Rome's demands. Antiochus completed the subjugation of Coele-Syria in 198 and went on to raid Ptolemy's remaining coastal strongholds in Caria and Cilicia.

Problems at home led Ptolemy to seek a quick and disadvantageous conclusion. The nativist movement, which began before the war with the Egyptian Revolt and expanded with the support of Egyptian priests, created turmoil and sedition throughout the kingdom. Economic troubles led the Ptolemaic government to increase taxation, which in turn fed the nationalist fire. In order to focus on the home front, Ptolemy signed a conciliatory treaty with Antiochus in 195, leaving the Seleucid king in possession of Coele-Syria and agreeing to marry Antiochus' daughter Cleopatra.

Don't get me wrong .. it's just that Aegypt had their as Seleucid's had their moments of victory... And. Aegypt is really to strong for 236bc, with chances to go deep in Asia and taking all Asia Minor.. that is really too soon :(

Spoofa
12-05-2007, 02:35
what do you want him to do about it though? what CAN you do? nothing, except edit money, which if he's using Konny's script is tipping the favor in the Seleucid's favor money wise anyway, AI is unprogrammable, the best we can do is victory conditions, and all that jazz to try to influence them to expand a certain way or direction, and thats all. sometimes a yellow, silver or blue death are inevitable and should be expected as the norm rather then the exception, thankfully with good micromanagement of the middle east ive managed to keep the Seleucid's and Ptolemies balanced when it comes to the middle east in my Mak campaign.

mrtwisties
12-05-2007, 02:45
Sounds good.

Key question - how can we help AI factions to defeat one another? From Konny's screenshots, it looks like the AI finds it difficult to expand into anything other than rebel-held territory. That is a bit of a game-breaker.

One idea: set up a "days of thunder" trigger, which has a 1 in 100 chance of taking place for any given faction on any given turn. If it activates, it "captures" the historic faction capital (if it's not already owned) and spawns two or three highly capable armies led by top-notch generals. This might give the AI the wherewithal to expand for a while, until those armies were depleted.

Has the added advantage of creating nasty late-game challenges for a human player who thinks he's conquered the map.

Another (similar) idea: have a "days of thunder" trigger that will run auto_win attacker before every AI vs AI battle for 20 turns. I don't think this would work, but maybe we could do something similar?

Another (similar) idea: have a [ blah blah blah ] that automatically replenishes the armies of AI characters with certain traits (eg "in AI enemy territory"). At least that way they'll be balanced against the auto-replenishing defenders.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 02:49
what do you want him to do about it though? what CAN you do? nothing, except edit money, which if he's using Konny's script is tipping the favor in the Seleucid's favor money wise anyway, AI is unprogrammable, the best we can do is victory conditions, and all that jazz to try to influence them to expand a certain way or direction, and thats all. sometimes a yellow, silver or blue death are inevitable and should be expected as the norm rather then the exception, thankfully with good micromanagement of the middle east ive managed to keep the Seleucid's and Ptolemies balanced when it comes to the middle east in my Mak campaign.

You did not get me as I wanted.. does not matter:laugh4: ..
I was refering to Konny as he is a 'part' of Alexander Team - like me:yes: .. ... but it's just that he did not added that in his signature so one can belive that I am making bad remarks .. konny is my comrade here :laugh4:
anyways these kind of talks that include 'modified' *txt for EB on Alex.exe are now moved to this thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96135

see you there .)

mrtwisties
12-05-2007, 02:57
Just thinking, it would actually be pretty cool if we could set AI battles permanently to "auto_win attacker". It'd have no effect on human players (because we actually play out our battles), but it would mean that the AI would be constantly swapping territories back and forth.

Even if auto_win attacker isn't possible, there might be a way of favouring the attacker. For example, you could create traits that give attacking generals ten command stars, or significant bonuses to the valour of their bodyguards. These bonuses wouldn't apply in human vs AI battles (perhaps the traits could be temporarily nixed whenever the prebattle screen started up). But in AI vs AI battles, they'd shift the balance strongly in favour of the attacking army.

Another thing to do might be to run auto_merge troops for every AI army at the start of every turn. That way they're less likely to retrain everyone and end up with a stack full of gold chevron troops.

mrtwisties
12-05-2007, 03:03
Has the added advantage of creating nasty late-game challenges for a human player who thinks he's conquered the map.

You know what'd be fun with this? Set it up so that a script triggers a few turns beforehand saying "You have been warned". That's all. No actual specific information about WHERE the days of thunder will start - just a warning that some faction somewhere is about to go nuts.

- mr.twisties.tension.ratcher

overweightninja
12-05-2007, 03:15
Hello again chaps, have been following your progress and is looking good, finally managed to get time to start a campaign with alx and konny's scripts, let you know if anything interesting happens.
Anyway, I had a thought in regards to the AI retraining issue. Is there evidence of the Eleutheroi retraining its troops in sieges etc? There would be obvious implications if so :inquisitive:

Cheers

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 03:17
For Mrtwisties

Maybe the trrigers are not the best solutin.. do I am for it to be tested anyways..

Still, one of the solutions may be the 'advanced' barracks system, well, not really a system at all, it's rather a 'tweaked' way of chosing wich faction can have low or high-end units and to what extend in what period of the game..

That should work like this (and this is apart from your suggestions that could work)::
The capitols of the factions would have (that means one region with a homeland resource as capital) at least an army barracks from the start (even do some could have a city one's) or (in the case of nomads) other buildings that would enable them to train medium army and elites (but not the finall-end ones) from the start in just one city (the capital)..

So, now, you have an option to have elites and it is up to you to manage your money. Some players (more aggressive ones) will use money after sacking a city to give their army a small boost - of maybe just one reliable unit that could help alot in a battle - one elite) - but just at one place - in your capital, so even if you have money you can't raise much at all - but you have one great motivation to fight and to look all those nice units you could train ,)

Second.. And I will leave this post comment only in terms of Factional barracks by now.
Construction times for barracks (or atleast for city to royal) should have 4-5 od 6-8 higher construction times. That way Human player wont end with an Empire of 20 regions, and one army barracks while CPU has Army and Royal bs in Every town untill 240bc (like AS or Aegypt). Plus you won't end fighting much more advanced Alex.exe AI that RETRAINS his elites ANYWHERE while you have to drag them form 'America'! So you don't end with a gap that really - I mean really - disables you to win ! You just can not win armies full of elites that are being retrained by Alex engine all the time and Everywhere!

And plus.. MAAntonius gave us a green light to use City Mod for Alexander EB 1.1 when he makes one for it .)

So in a way of expansion - the barracks could be one very and more important 'trigger' than other solutions.. there is also a question's of share.. but that will be the topic later .)

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 03:25
Hello again chaps, have been following your progress and is looking good, finally managed to get time to start a campaign with alx and konny's scripts, let you know if anything interesting happens.
Anyway, I had a thought in regards to the AI retraining issue. Is there evidence of the Eleutheroi retraining its troops in sieges etc? There would be obvious implications if so :inquisitive:

Cheers

If you look at the export_descr_buildings.txt you can see this
;;;
}
building barracks
{
levels muster_field militia_barracks city_barracks army_barracks royal_barracks
{
muster_field requires factions { slave, }
{
capability
{
}
construction 3
cost 900
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
militia_barracks
}
}
militia_barracks requires factions { slave, }
{
capability
{
law_bonus 1
}
construction 6
cost 3000
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
city_barracks
}
}
city_barracks requires factions { slave, }
{
capability
{
law_bonus 1
trade_base_income_bonus bonus 1
}
construction 9
cost 7500
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
army_barracks
}
}
army_barracks requires factions { slave, }
{
capability
{
law_bonus 1
trade_base_income_bonus bonus 2
}
construction 12
cost 12000
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
royal_barracks
}
}
royal_barracks requires factions { slave, }
{
capability
{
law_bonus 2
trade_base_income_bonus bonus 2
}
construction 15
cost 15000
settlement_min town
upgrades
{
}
}
}

That means the Slaves are not retraining - and In the game it is quite clear they don't add the numbers of their armies after one defense (wich is not the case with factions .)

mrtwisties
12-05-2007, 03:47
For Mrtwisties

Maybe the trrigers are not the best solutin.. do I am for it to be tested anyways..

Still, one of the solutions may be the 'advanced' barracks system, well, not really a system at all, it's rather a 'tweaked' way of chosing wich faction can have low or high-end units and to what extend in what period of the game..

That should work like this (and this is apart from your suggestions that could work)::
The capitols of the factions would have (that means one region with a homeland resource as capital) at least an army barracks from the start (even do some could have a city one's) or (in the case of nomads) other buildings that would enable them to train medium army and elites (but not the finall-end ones) from the start in just one city (the capital)..

So, now, you have an option to have elites and it is up to you to manage your money. Some players (more aggressive ones) will use money after sacking a city to give their army a small boost - of maybe just one reliable unit that could help alot in a battle - one elite) - but just at one place - in your capital, so even if you have money you can't raise much at all - but you have one great motivation to fight and to look all those nice units you could train ,)

Second.. And I will leave this post comment only in terms of Factional barracks by now.
Construction times for barracks (or atleast for city to royal) should have 4-5 od 6-8 higher construction times. That way Human player wont end with an Empire of 20 regions, and one army barracks while CPU has Army and Royal bs in Every town untill 240bc (like AS or Aegypt). Plus you won't end fighting much more advanced Alex.exe AI that RETRAINS his elites ANYWHERE while you have to drag them form 'America'! So you don't end with a gap that really - I mean really - disables you to win ! You just can not win armies full of elites that are being retrained by Alex engine all the time and Everywhere!

And plus.. MAAntonius gave us a green light to use City Mod for Alexander EB 1.1 when he makes one for it .)

So in a way of expansion - the barracks could be one very and more important 'trigger' than other solutions.. there is also a question's of share.. but that will be the topic later .)

I like this idea, and am interested to see how it develops. I think it'd cut out a lot of AI retraining. But even if it works beautifully I'd still be concerned about medium troops in some areas being constantly retrained by the AI and ending up with all gold chevrons. One or two units like that is okay. An army of them completely changes the battle dynamic and renders it unhistoric - you might as well play on VH/VH.

Forcing the AI to auto_merge units at the start of its turn seems to me to be a useful, low impact part of the solution (if it's at all possible). That way the AI will end up with one or two units of uber-gold Pezhetairoi, rather than four or six.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 04:06
I like this idea, and am interested to see how it develops. I think it'd cut out a lot of AI retraining. But even if it works beautifully I'd still be concerned about medium troops in some areas being constantly retrained by the AI and ending up with all gold chevrons. One or two units like that is okay. An army of them completely changes the battle dynamic and renders it unhistoric - you might as well play on VH/VH.

Forcing the AI to auto_merge units at the start of its turn seems to me to be a useful, low impact part of the solution (if it's at all possible). That way the AI will end up with one or two units of uber-gold Pezhetairoi, rather than four or six.

This idea was already tested by myself in numerous modds for RTW, that changed the way AI plays in the general picture, those AI 'tweaks' should follow as one City Mod version would be implemented (or one that could 'copy' that idea). In my examples I always used the 'big city start's and stays big during the game' like it was often the case in history, so one 'can' develop small town into Imperial one, but with alot of effort, construction time and money..

AI on Alex.exe is not automerging because it is 'smart' in a way it makes it harder for us to win.. That engine is gold! So we all have to count we must run and strike fast after one victory to destroy enemy as a whole - if we don't want that army to came back after it fils it's rank's again .. The barracks system will make much of that to be 'controled' ... Like, you know that Royal Barracks are in Alexandria.. so you know that if you strike elites - only the natives would be able to fight even as retrained..

That is one balance in the middle of advanced AI engine and human needs to win .. Also.. celtis reforms are acctually one more reason that barracks system should be worked on..

btw, I use VH/VH it's just that I am waithing Konny to upload his 'modded' script for EB on Alex for me to test it on VH

mrtwisties
12-05-2007, 04:15
Oh, okay. I'm probably not that interested in an EB mini-mod that's geared for VH/VH, and am pretty concerned about letting the AI develop golden stacks of anything, since although the human player might capture such a city, the AI definitely wouldn't.

Reckon we might have different philosophies, mate. Good luck with it!

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 04:34
Oh, okay. I'm probably not that interested in an EB mini-mod that's geared for VH/VH, and am pretty concerned about letting the AI develop golden stacks of anything, since although the human player might capture such a city, the AI definitely wouldn't.

Reckon we might have different philosophies, mate. Good luck with it!

This is really not an EB mini-mod that will be geared for VH/VH game, It is very possible this thread would carry 2 or more optional minor 'tweaks' mod's and one 'whole' so, you shouldn't be concerned.)

The Alexander EB will not be made for VH/VH, It is tested on medium by konny and the only VH that could be recommended is campaign VH (and that would be me to say it :laugh4: - just because I am one 24 year old RTW veteran that won tournaments on it)

By what we know AI on Alex is not ending up with all gold chevrons or even silver as much as one could belive... the point is that barracks system should prevent that .. Let me note, I play always on VH/VH and I started Epeiros and reached Alexandria and I never fought an army with above level 4 experience, so we don't have much different philosophies my friend

It's just that most of what you are suggesting (or all of it) is open for talks and test-modding but with Konny, he is the one that is currently messing with a EBBS - and he has my full support.. I doubt he will ever leave CPU unbeatable.. So you should not worry, stay around during the test's so you can see it your self.. Hell I will post tomorrow segments of my VH/VH campaign so anyone can see that there are NO golden stacks of chevrons for CPU..

What I wa refering as gold - Was The Engine Of Alexander - not the diffuculty

And after all, most of downloads and files will be separated, so you can chose what to use.. maybe there would be one 'lighter' and one 'harder' version's of the mod.. Who know's .. we are in beta fase of discussion yet .)

Lgk
12-05-2007, 05:34
And here i go, migrating from old alex thread.

At last i got my EB and now begin to test it immediately. Made a few short runs with BI exe to note campaign flow there, then switched to alex, starting new campaign. Here are my observations.

Human player: Casse
RomeTW-ALX.exe only (alex not installed)
Difficulty: H/M (not fought many tac battles anyway)
EBBS script: original, then changed (see below)
Victory towns assigned: no
descr_strat: "options +prebattle_night_battle_tickbox", NOT "options bi" (see below)

I confirm that AI factions have a tough time expanding, despite AI being more active in general under alex... It wasn't a prob in XGM, where rebels are weak and unscripted, but in EB many rebel towns eventually get half-stack garrisons full of golden chevrons... This doesn't mean that AI can't expand at all (Lusitans took Numantia in 255!), but smaller factions tend to stagnate most of the time, falling in dire debt under high upkeep rates and still reluctant to attack rebel cities.

Now i think that "difficult start help" (what a misnomer!) in EBBS (section 5a) isn't up to the task. Now, it gives 20000 mnai per year to all factions short of 5000 mnai, which is excessive for larger ones (not to mention makes pointless such things as naval blockades) and not enough for smaller factions (eg checked stagnating Pontos in 253 and found them losing over 7000 per turn - that's about 30000 per year, EB original script can't solve this). There is also per-city help in EBBS, but again, it's useless for smaller factions. Also i checked konny's and Davor's scripts and found it less than ideal... so here is my variant, applied in mid-campaign circa 250 with great effect.

It is divided in two parts for each faction:

1) This part will cover any debt as big as 65536 mnai (per turn)...

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType romans_julii
and not FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < -32768
console_command add_money romans_julii, 32768
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType romans_julii
and not FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < -16384
console_command add_money romans_julii, 16384
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType romans_julii
and not FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < -8192
console_command add_money romans_julii, 8192
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType romans_julii
and not FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < -4096
console_command add_money romans_julii, 4096
end_monitor

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType romans_julii
and not FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < 0
console_command add_money romans_julii, 4096
end_monitor

...and leaves treasury within certain range (0-4095 mnai in this case) afterwards. One can get lesser values and even exact zero treasury continuing this pattern (note last 2 bonuses are equal and last bound is 0), but script becomes bloated soon and i don't think it's really necessary.

2) This part will help small factions only!

monitor_event FactionTurnStart FactionType romans_julii
and not FactionIsLocal
and Treasury < 5000
and I_CompareCounter seasonCounter = 4
if I_NumberOfSettlements romans_julii < 5
console_command add_money romans_julii, 5000
end_if
if I_NumberOfSettlements romans_julii < 4
console_command add_money romans_julii, 5000
end_if
if I_NumberOfSettlements romans_julii < 3
console_command add_money romans_julii, 10000
end_if
end_monitor

It's nothing more than modified original EBBS section-5a script. It gives 20000 mnai per year if AI faction has only 1-2 cities, 10000 in case of 3 cities, and 5000 if 4 cities (i noticed that after gaining 3-4 regions AI factions finally can take care of themselves and perform well, but some further faction-specific tweaks are possible). Now human tactics of targeting AI economics makes some sense, at least when fighting large empires (we can always pretend that enemy resorts to desperate measures when he's reduced to last 2-3 regions).

Reloading game with new script variant had a couple of sleeping factions almost immediately awake and going on conquest (though i'm still worrying about gauls, still beaten by rebel garrisons). But, if script alone won't be enough, there are other possibilities, eg giving AI generals command traits vs rebels (not sure if they affect autocalc, though), in similar giving rebel generals negative traits vs neighbouring AI (thus making certain factions harder to take certain regions and leading to more historical expansion), aging some rebel generals, so they die early and garrisons come out... All such changes can take into account human player's faction proximity - luckily most edits then will affect campaign script and descr_strat, not the background script.

Also tried to destroy some factions (using auto_win cheat) - and all the pictures were shown with no probs (though text stated something about Romans rejoicing, despite the fact that destroyers were the seleucids).

Redmeth
12-05-2007, 07:14
For testing purposes as the Casse, I'm pretty sure you will find this small executable very useful
http://www.usaupload.net/d/ueyssz5v6jm

It's an autoclick program you start it set it to unlimited and the interval at something like 30 secs than you can position the mouse over the end turn button and let it autoplay. The only thing that stops it are adoption events so you'd need to check on it from time to time but it sure helps that you don't have to click end turn and be around the computer for too long.

The -ai switch doesn't work cause you can't start the script, you can use this with the -ne switch to leave the game in windowed mode too.

mrtwisties
12-05-2007, 07:23
The -ai switch doesn't work cause you can't start the script.

So they can't run the script from descr_strat.txt?

I assume not, since that's not what you guys have been doing. But what stops it from working, do you know?

mrtwisties
12-05-2007, 07:29
Also Redmeth, do you know any programs that can automate keypresses like enter and esc? I've been hunting around for some to coerce my year jump script into actually working. If I can also get it to work with the EBBS, it could become a really useful testing platform - all of the factions will be played by the AI, and there'll be nothing that pauses it.

Redmeth
12-05-2007, 07:41
So they can't run the script from descr_strat.txt?

I assume not, since that's not what you guys have been doing. But what stops it from working, do you know?

Well I remember trying it and the 4tpy didn't work for sure, descr_strat and campaign_script are run once at the beginning of a campaign so that's why all the stuff that needs counters to check for different condition each turn and so on needs to be in EBBS. I can't give a good explanation like a scripter could but it won't work.


Also Redmeth, do you know any programs that can automate keypresses like enter and esc? I've been hunting around for some to coerce my year jump script into actually working. If I can also get it to work with the EBBS, it could become a really useful testing platform - all of the factions will be played by the AI, and there'll be nothing that pauses it.

I don't have one but I looked till I found this small bastard (the autoclick one) for more than an hour and went through 10+ others before I found this one that did exactly what I wanted (on a Romanian site of all places). So keep googling...

Redmeth
12-05-2007, 09:39
I don't really like city mod because it gimps certain factions too much (like the steppe factions and the barbs IMO) EB thrives on what if scenarios and perhaps if the celts would have conquered Rome perhaps they would have expanded to large cities.

I don't really know how it works now but in the beginning I know that it was too penalizing on the "uncivilized" cultures.

EDIT: You guys have a lot of ideas, but make sure you test them out and put them in one at a time if possible, it's all a bit chaotic now but I hope it will turn out OK, keep in mind that in many cases less is better as long as it works so do try not to go overboard with the changes...

marseu
12-05-2007, 10:28
Some Questions about using Alex.exe for EB.

1) Wich are the Known fixes for EB 1.0 and where I can find it?

2) If I will use the Alex.exe to play EB, could I use the unofficial modding projects for EB such as "City MOD" or "EB Tweakes"?

3) Is possible to use some features of BI in ALEX.exe EB, such as Warcry, shiledwall, schiltrom, swim ability?

MiniMe
12-05-2007, 11:14
2 Maximus: would you be so kind as to post the list of cnanges you are going to apply?

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 12:58
Some Questions about using Alex.exe for EB.

1) Wich are the Known fixes for EB 1.0 and where I can find it?

2) If I will use the Alex.exe to play EB, could I use the unofficial modding projects for EB such as "City MOD" or "EB Tweakes"?

3) Is possible to use some features of BI in ALEX.exe EB, such as Warcry, shiledwall, schiltrom, swim ability?

1) Here is an EB team member thread that deals with fixes https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=93820 - thank Bovi there, I note that those fixes are included in the *txt files that are modded for Alexander (*txt files EB team officialy made as fixes were the base for *txt changes thet lead to Alex.exe for EB.)

2) Yes, I think there will be no probs at all, only if the *txt files overlap you should use the manual to add Alex.exe featrues

3) We are working on it.. LGK is the one master here and it should be done for EB 1.1 .)

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 13:22
2 Maximus: would you be so kind as to post the list of cnanges you are going to apply?

Will do.. it's just that we are really in beta stage in testing here, we are consolidating ideas and finding the 'path' solutions for some aspect's of the game - and we are not so powerfull to have a hidden forum :laugh4:.

You see, The AI is retraining and grouping all the time, so that either must make a player to play fast a furious or just loose, and we don't want that, we also don't want to limit the retraining capability of CPU with more and more triggers, we will rather use some 'simple' EBBS script options that anyone could change back or 'tweak' to his needs
So all we do is transparent and clear as a sky (well like a clear sky.)

But!

Let me be short for now (because the main post of this thread will be edited with a the list of cnanges we are going to apply). First of all there are numerous issues in the main Alex.exe thread that need to be addressed - Like:
How to make EB more friendly to the Human player in Alex (that means to make several + bonuses that will be added for buildings that have none)? How to help human player develop without having to go to Total War against the CPU just to survive - in AlexEB player can't waith to develop by 'slow-pace' like it is mentioned (that means adding some infrastructure to all factions (+also building time) and also adding some mines in rebel regions near small factions - like Pergam or Sidon or region West of Armenia.. so someone 'would really lilke' to play with them, also make nomads more 'likely' to gain money - if you can notice - they have the one of the biggest minuses after 10 turns)... etc

All this will be more deeply measured in some time. It's just we don't have a hidden forum for this as I said.. so sorry if this seems -not so serious- now, but I am sure that one or two mods would be for EB 1.1 100%ž

be well.)

MiniMe
12-05-2007, 13:27
Would be glad to test your project after I finish my yellow campaign with Konny's current win conditions.
Best regards
MiniMe.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 13:49
I don't really like city mod because it gimps certain factions too much (like the steppe factions and the barbs IMO) EB thrives on what if scenarios and perhaps if the celts would have conquered Rome perhaps they would have expanded to large cities.

I don't really know how it works now but in the beginning I know that it was too penalizing on the "uncivilized" cultures.

EDIT: You guys have a lot of ideas, but make sure you test them out and put them in one at a time if possible, it's all a bit chaotic now but I hope it will turn out OK, keep in mind that in many cases less is better as long as it works so do try not to go overboard with the changes...

Most ot those ideas are already made.)

Don't worry about City Mod.. I asked MAAntonius to make it 'friendly' for us just so we can see or use some features, I even told him the same as you now in his thread - I belive that the "uncivilized" cultures should not be 'crumpled' that much... :no:

But the scope for EB Aalexander is that Big Ancient Cities - should be big from the start and in 100 turn, not like in EB 1 based on RTW, that when you reach 100 or 200 turn's almost 70% of AI factions cities are Large or Huge with Army and Royal barracks (wich means btw you will 'NEVER' win on H or VH campaign difficulty due to the ALX retrainig features), enormus ports and walls and populations..
Still, due to the retraining features of Alex - that posibility is somewhat less frightening..

And may I add that no Alexander Member is going to confront the historic note in any major aspect of EB game - that is one reason I use EB, but there are just some issues left - fo PM's:laugh4:

And Redmeth - thank you so much for being here - we really need your suggestion's and advice support:bow: also, any suggestions are welcome too:bow:

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 13:51
Would be glad to test your project after I finish my yellow campaign with Konny's current win conditions.
Best regards
MiniMe.

Excellent, I think that if EB 1.1 does not beat us.. in a week for sure - there will be a download link added.. Alexandros - charge!:pirate2:

konny
12-05-2007, 13:53
It's just that most of what you are suggesting (or all of it) is open for talks and test-modding but with Konny, he is the one that is currently messing with a EBBS - and he has my full support.. I doubt he will ever leave CPU unbeatable..

Certainly not. I like interessting games with a lot of challanges, but nothing that is difficult beyond frustration.

The idea is like the following:

Every faction has assigned Victory Conditions. These are some towns they allready posses and much more they have to conquer. Some or all of these can be "cashcows": the AI gets money help as long as it has not conquered them, assuming that it has run in some kind of problems.

---------------------------------------------------
Example: Aedui and Arverni have both the same VC towns in Gaul as tragets. They get money help for every of these towns they don't own. At the start of the game they both get the same (much) money, what is desperatly needed to get beyond the debth created by the starting army and to give them the money to develop their lands and go around conquering.

As soon as, for example, the Aedui start conquering Gaul and/or take lands from the Arverni, they get lesser money help because they now own more VC towns than before. Up to the point when the Aedui controll all of Gaul and they don't get any more money help at all.

Then again, when an invader comes along, for example a human controlled Rome, and starts stealing provinces from them, the money help again pops up and gives the Aedui money for VC provinces they lose; allowing for strong resistance even when reduced by provinces.
-------------------------------------------------------------

Now, that's the point when frustration might come up, because you are making the AI even stronger by beating it. To prevent from this and to aviod the "Mytilene-Effect", when a faction is reduced to one remote province from where it hardly can re-conquer its homelands but is getting tons of scripted money every turn, most of the factions have a "capital province", that they need to hold to get any money help at all.

In our example that would be Bibracte for the Aedui. So, you can breake the Aedui (i.e. stop any money help for them) by taking Bibracte. I think that will add to the motivation, not the frustration, of the player?


--------------------------------------------------------------

You see that this can only be done together with assigned VCs. Otherwise we would give the Romans money to conquer Rhegion and they would use that money to take the Alps, ignoring our wishes.

I haven't yet decided on the amount of the money help per town. That will most likely differ from town to town and will be about or a little less the profit the AI will make when controlling that town.

I haven't also decided for the "unbreakable" factions (i.e. without capital province to hold). That will certainly be the two nomads, probably Parthia because the VCs should make them somehow "horde" south, and may be the Sweboz.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 15:09
Bibracte example is nice, that should also be Pella (or maybe Corintos) but for the AS that should be 2 towns, like, Seleucidia and Antioh, for Aegypt I belive Alexandria is ok, Baktria, Athenai, Rome.. other..

I am testing the 'share' system, in wich Hellenes/Barbs would be able to use other - hellenes/barb barracks (just tu use - not 'build over it') because Army and Royal barracks should be really rare - like in the Historic notes,

But when you take Antioch with Macedon or Baktria or Epeiros, you will be able to train anything in their Royal barracks (according to recruitment viewer)... And due to the new barracks test system that would make any factions have army at the start (but with a few and less options to have many - unless they take other factions barracks)

(based on the same conditions even if you take Royal Barracks in Sparta - you will have what you have.. no more according to recruitment viewer and that is 4 types o units, but Athens is something else, do Athenai should have city_b)

Here is what I am thinking... The big barracks will be rare, so in the Army/City/Royal types of them factions that should be able to 'use' eash other's barracks are:: Macedon, Epiros, KH, AS, Aegypt, Baktria...
And Pontos, Armenia and Parthia should have their chances when they take lands form BIG factions, like AS or Aegypt. This system should apply for barb's too, so they could share the 'use' of barracks but they should not have options to overbulid army ontop of some city barracks (if they want to to that - they start from 0)

So, in that respect, anyone can hardly belive that one or ANY! faction could reach as far as Babylon and/or Alexandria and then seek their army to be reinfored by the homland in Britain of Gaul.. So, I belive that ANY! barb faction should have use of ANY! royal barracks if it reaches that land (but, according to the recruitment viewer - in case of celt's there would be almost no advantage even it they take Alexandria).. Even if that means adding the Regional or Mercenary unit's to be able to be build there...

But.. AS or Aegypt are big- they would have no probs in using just their own barracks.. So, Pontos/Armenia/Parthia should have some use of AS or Aegypt barracks and each others, but to some extend, myabe the whole system should be based on City to Royal types of barracks rather than from muster_field...

So in this way, barracks we keep EB teams ideas (like share system) and 'support' the one outmost realistic outcome that would follow one's faction permanent holdings of the enemies regions that have city/army/royal barracks - wich means - Big Cities.. (so you see, ALL factions should have benefits of using each other's city/army/royal bs, but offcourse that should not go in all directions - because ''uncivilised'' factions could use ''civilised'' factions barracks - but ''civilised'' should not use ''uncivilised'' barracks at all..

Redmeth
12-05-2007, 15:43
I'm not so sure on of what you're trying to achieve with this mass sharing of barracks.

So if I were to play the Getai and conquered Pella I'd be able to train all my elites from the hellenic barracks built there by the Maks?

First see if the money script coupled with more expensive and longer to build army/city/royal barracks doesn't do the trick. Trying to revamp the system of sharing put in place is quite hard to do not to mention it could create errors and what not. But I guess when 1.1 comes out I'll implement in my build whatever features I like from your endeavor.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 16:07
I'm not so sure on of what you're trying to achieve with this mass sharing of barracks.

So if I were to play the Getai and conquered Pella I'd be able to train all my elites from the hellenic barracks built there by the Maks?.

If you look closely to recruitment viewer - you can see that the only factional units you will have in Pella with Getai using Macedonian Army or Royal barracks - are just Dacian Medium Cav. and Thrakian Medium Cav. so this system is no big deal really - it would just enable you to train 'some' units and use Pellas infrastructure (like maybe som bonusses) a bit - or Destroy it and gain money! But, destoroying buildings especially barracks in times of war was not ever a politic's of ancient states or factions (that wanted to occupy one region)...
And because ''IF'' condition's for building can not be added - even if you add any level of your goverment - you will be able to use just those two unit's - so.. you don't need to spend the money of reaching Royal or Army factional barracks in Pella just to ger two factional unit's and use some moral bonuses.
The regional barracks are up you to develop... do, one solution may be to make all faction's share the USE of barracks - that means that you can use AS city regional barracks as Dacia but you can not upgrade it to Army regional, Also Civilised Faction can't use 'barb's' barracks - so Dacia would have bonus for Pella, while Macedon would have none in Dacia.

Anyway's I was thinking playing with Dacia one campaign right now:laugh4:


First see if the money script coupled with more expensive and longer to build army/city/royal barracks doesn't do the trick. Trying to revamp the system of sharing put in place is quite hard to do not to mention it could create errors and what not. But I guess when 1.1 comes out I'll implement in my build whatever features I like from your endeavor.

As I mentioned, revamping the system of sharing is not in case here.. The simple optional 'use' of other High-eng barracks is in case of history quite right and that is only for the biggest ones. You don't suppose that Getai would destory Macedonian Army barracks and then build their own for years just to have 2 available unit's? - while tha war is on? I am sure they would use them and develop one military revolution fo their own kind

+ Don't wory.. copy paste buisiness is the only thing here - and I don't make mistakes in ''export_descr_buildings.txt'' .)

note: this 'tweak' is in development.. so it might not be in after all .)

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 17:45
To add,

If any finall mark would be done by the script - I belive it would not be under some great or major impact of any 'use' buildings or barracks system tweak.. Because it is all based on RViewer and 'default' 'source' unit triggers..

To go simple..

If you one can IMAGINE that ALL provinces have royal barracks (from the start) that are free for any faction to use full time - and even then - due to the 'RESOURCE' that is ''and hidden_resource's'' you would not benefit from all those Barracks as much as it complies with ''resource'' - because in in about 50% of provinces factions can't raise not one factional troop..

SO, no matter what! Epeiros will be able to recruit Epirot Elite Phalanx only in 3 regions, that is Epeir, Thermon and the Illyrian town above Epeir.. And Medium Phalanx only in Pella, Demetrias, Alexandria, Antioch, Babylon, Seleucidia and Baktria! And can train Epeiros Heavy cavalry only in Epeir... so you got the picture?

The point is that if Epeir takes Pella - he would have those units that are in construction viewer - and we all remmember that When A Gonatas came to confront Pyrrus - his 'MACEDONIAN' army just went on Pyrr's side - that is why Pyrrus has Hellenic Medium Phalanx at the start - but can't recruit any until he reaches Alexandria or Media - that is not nice at all - he should have an option as 'he had' to recruit Medium Phalanx in Pella region (and that should be considered as Makedonia - not just 'sacked' Pella)..

This is just an example so the same would go for all factions - it's just that in Gaul, they should use (better have!) two Army barracks top's + in Germania.. and that should be eniough untill 80-150 turns pass..:juggle2:

Lgk
12-05-2007, 23:03
You don't suppose that Getai would destory Macedonian Army barracks and then build their own for yers - I am sure they would use them and develop one military revolution fo their own kind
I don't like idea of sharing barracks between different cultures (honestly, i don't like any idea which intentionally makes life easier for human players). And remember, that using/building barracks is an abstraction, no way real-life conquerors can recruit their core troops immediately upon conquest of predominately different culture territory, it takes years to migrate enough military settlers in (or convert loyal locals to conqueror's customs). I believe long building times represent these difficulties well.

konny
12-05-2007, 23:22
I would rather make the recruitement of the local militia easyer. We had that topic before, assuming that a conquerer who is moving far beyond his homelands would immediatly grap what armed men he could find on the spot to have a garrison and fill up his ranks.

Lgk
12-05-2007, 23:39
I would rather make the recruitement of the local militia easyer. We had that topic before, assuming that a conquerer who is moving far beyond his homelands would immediatly grap what armed men he could find on the spot to have a garrison and fill up his ranks.
And i would rather make it harder. Anything is good that slow down expansion to historical rate. Unfortunately, RTW engine has no such thing as "troop loyalty", nor the city loyalty level is associated with possibilities for troop recruitment. How can we tell if region populace likes conqueror (and/or his people) enough to fight for him? Do they see him as liberator, as useful ally, or as another opressor? RTW can't represent this.

Maksimus
12-05-2007, 23:49
I would rather make the recruitement of the local militia easyer. We had that topic before, assuming that a conquerer who is moving far beyond his homelands would immediatly grap what armed men he could find on the spot to have a garrison and fill up his ranks.



My posts are too long.. I know.. one does not read it whole maybe :curtain:

Konny.. do you have a recruitment viewer?

If you do - you can see my intentions.. but anyway.. we can talk about it a bit..

In the case you mentioned, one general far from homeland would only be able to fill up his ranks according to UNIT - according to the 'resource' - that means he could fill up 'some' low-end unit's ranks in the best and most case those are peltasts - but NOT elites or medium units that we are so afraid of..

The example I have added to the Epeiros is clear really.. They can reach INDIA and can only retrain their low-end troops (some of them) - that means troops that can't win battles for India or Media or the Stepe's .. but can't use elites - unless they take Successor's capital's in wich case they could only profit some units.. see?
And getai could reach Sparta but could only have ragionall units they would have to develop first

Just look at the recruitment viewer? I really think that is clear

I agree for militia do.. That could be done easilly in adding making all share 'use' of regional barracks or connecting it to other structure - like town_hall's or palace's..
personally I would like any faction to use any other faction's regional barrack's wich is alot more troop btw then using your barracks for the core - factional troops..

It is just a matter of resources... so we can add recruitment to any building :smash: or change anything...

note for konny.. and you see that I and Lgk have the same signatures.. you could just add one.. :san_grin: