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The General
11-21-2007, 17:24
Err, sorry to make a new thread to ask this, but I failed to find it myself; what affects the acquisition of the trait 'Stunning incompetence'? I get that every now and then, which is fine, but, well, this occasion was rather odd... (playing VH/M)

I've got this chap, ( http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3504/incompetence2dj6.jpg , http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6245/incompetencezv8.jpg ), who I got offered as a husband for a daughter in the family, and I accepted it, seeing that he was Sharp/Charismatic/Vigorous, Calm, Man Grown, and the description of 'Puno-Celtiberian' seemed ok to me, and so, I had a new relative. I brought him from Sicily over to Africa to lead a small army against a few rebel armies that had emerged, and decided, because the units were being trained, to take him to Kart-Hadast to be trained at the school there, and under the supervision of Mago, the faction leader and über-management/influence feller.

Now, the problem was, that if I left him for a single turn there, he got both 'Stunningly Incompetent' and 'Unhappy People', even though he wasn't the governor and the loyalty rating was 140+%. So, I loaded, tried again, and it did the same. I tried taking him to Adrumeto, and still got it. Finally, I just gave in, and let him became what, it seems, he was destined to be. I mean, he's just gonna be a general anyway, and not an administrator.

However, I was puzzled, as to why did he get both of those traits, always, after only spending a turn in a city, even if not being a governor, and while being sharp AND charismatic? Does his blood heritage have something to do with it, or is it just my bad luck?

I'd be just curious to know, if anyone could tell me...

Basileus Seleukeia
11-21-2007, 17:33
It may be that the Puno-Iberian Trait has the hidden effect that he wont do very well in a type 1 government city. It's the same with KH where Athenian generals become stunningly imcopetent while undergoing the Agoge because Sparte has a type 1 government. Don't worry dude, once you move him to a city that has a suitable government for him, he'll lose the trait. I hope:clown:

The General
11-21-2007, 17:39
Thanks, I hope you're right. I was thinking it might be something of that sort, but hadn't got to test it yet.

TWFanatic
11-21-2007, 17:40
I've had the same problem. Personally, I think "Stunning Incompetence" is a bit harsh, but that can always be edited easily.

And Basileus Seleukeia is correct, at least from my expierience.

Treverer
11-21-2007, 17:42
@ The General:

This happened to me too, when playing either Epirote or Pontic games. A "suitable husband" with at least above average traits, and peng! after he's in a town (say Athens), he gets this extremely nasty trait.

Strangely, those "S.H." with average or under average traits do not get it. Must be some relation between "above average traits" & getting this nasty trait.

Yours,
T.

Treverer
11-21-2007, 17:56
Maybe this explains it (though I've not understood it completely):


Trigger Governor_No_Longer_in_Favorite_Type1_Settlement
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsGeneral
and EndedInSettlement
and Trait Type1Settlement < 1
and Trait LikesType1 > 0
and Trait SettlementGoodMatch > 0

Affects SettlementBadMatch 1 Chance 100
Affects BadAdministrator 8 Chance 100
Affects PeopleUnhappy 1 Chance 100

;------------------------------------------
Trigger Governor_BadMatch_with_Type1_Settlement
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition IsGeneral
and CharacterIsLocal
and EndedInSettlement
and Trait Type1Settlement > 0
and Trait HatesType1 > 0
and Trait SettlementBadMatch < 1

Affects SettlementBadMatch 1 Chance 100
Affects BadAdministrator 8 Chance 100
Affects PeopleUnhappy 1 Chance 100

I guess that

- the factional (sub-) ethnicity (e.g. Mollosian, Thraikos, Persikos, etc.) and that
- the gouverment type (in this case, a gov1)

play a major role in getting this trait ("BadAdministrator 2" = Stunningly Incompetent).

T.

EDIT: what confuses me is "BadAdministrator 8", 'cause IIRC there are just 4 levels (level one being "Jobsworth").

antisocialmunky
11-21-2007, 20:17
@ The General:

This happened to me too, when playing either Epirote or Pontic games. A "suitable husband" with at least above average traits, and peng! after he's in a town (say Athens), he gets this extremely nasty trait.

Strangely, those "S.H." with average or under average traits do not get it. Must be some relation between "above average traits" & getting this nasty trait.

Yours,
T.

The more you expect out of someone, the farther htey can fall. I bet no one would be complaining about this if some Dull/Langorous/UnCharasmatic Hypochondriac with a Fear of Blood got it. :beam:

beatoangelico
11-21-2007, 20:59
The more you expect out of someone, the farther htey can fall. I bet no one would be complaining about this if some Dull/Langorous/UnCharasmatic Hypochondriac with a Fear of Blood got it. :beam:

sometimes is the opposite...for example, with Baktria I have a Dull/Charismatic/Languorous Persikos FM that is Hale And Hearty and one of my more succesfull and influential generals :eyebrows:

bovi
11-21-2007, 23:14
I explained this in the other thread (http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95152&highlight=agoge+incompetence) on the issue.

Treverer
11-21-2007, 23:20
I explained this in the other thread (http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=95152&highlight=agoge+incompetence) on the issue.
Thx, Bovi. So I was right with my analysis. Edit: I was unaware of your post and simply searched the char_trait.txt folder. ~;)

Yours,
Treverer

P.S. What does "BadAdministrator8" mean?? Aren't there only 4 or 5 levels of that trait?

bovi
11-22-2007, 00:02
Good question! The RTW traits mechanics is easily misunderstood. I've marked some lines in the following code to illustrate the point.


Trait BadAdministrator
Characters family
NoGoingBackLevel 6
AntiTraits GoodAdministrator

Level Jobsworth
Description Jobsworth_desc
EffectsDescription Jobsworth_effects_desc
Threshold 2

Effect Management -1
Effect Unrest 1

Level Administratively_Inept
Description Administratively_Inept_desc
EffectsDescription Administratively_Inept_effects_desc
Threshold 4

Effect Management -2
Effect Unrest 2

Level Stunningly_Incompetent
Description Stunningly_Incompetent_desc
EffectsDescription Stunningly_Incompetent_effects_desc
Threshold 8

Effect Management -3
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Influence -1

Level Completely_Incompetent
Description Completely_Incompetent_desc
EffectsDescription Completely_Incompetent_effects_desc
Threshold 16

Effect Management -4
Effect Unrest 4
Effect Influence -1

Level Legendarily_Incompetent
Description Legendarily_Incompetent_desc
EffectsDescription Legendarily_Incompetent_effects_desc
Threshold 32

Effect Management -5
Effect Unrest 5
Effect Influence -2

You'll notice that there are indeed only 5 levels of the trait, and a general with Completely_Incompetent would return true on the condition Trait BadAdministrator = 4. However, the thresholds of the levels are a lot higher. To have level 4, he needs to have between 16 and 31 points in the trait. Affects statements add points, not levels. The give_trait console command however works in levels and not points.

When you add 8 points to one who has nothing on the trait, he'll go straight to the third level, Stunningly_Incompetent.

Treverer
11-22-2007, 00:08
Thx again Bovi! Where do I get further information about how the "traitpoints" work? No need to hurry with an answer though, you might PM me when you have time. EDIT: Not needed anymore, I think I've understood now how it works.

Yours,
Treverer

Pharnakes
11-22-2007, 03:01
The scriptorium anyway is always the first stop. From there you can go to modding questions, if you haven't found a guide.