Faction Thread 11: Dark Elves

[Bwian]

Placeholder

[A Norseman]

Campain map: As discussed elsewhere, Dark Elves shuld have a realy strong navy, and wuld prefer invation from the sea.

Dark elves shuld have a strong defence aginst chaos. They have a chain of forts along the border in warhammer fantasy. I suggest alot of castles shuld be placed here.

[Spankfurt]

Maybe with alot of free garrisoning. 8 free slots in each tower? you dont want to be paying for 25+ regiments up there every turn.

[Taranaich]

Perhaps making a series of easily-defended chokepoints along the mountains would help the DE out? Impassible terrain/high mountains and such so that the borders are more manageable.

[Eufarius]

I agree with that idea Taranaich.

[Enthes]

Perhaps making a series of easily-defended chokepoints along the mountains would help the DE out? Impassible terrain/high mountains and such so that the borders are more manageable.

yea i have to agree if the DE dont have some kind of terrain advantage against chaos then i think they might get steam rolled. would also be nice to see a fort in the gaps with garrisoned units at the start of the campaign

[DrZoidberg]

Perhaps making a series of easily-defended chokepoints along the mountains would help the DE out? Impassible terrain/high mountains and such so that the borders are more manageable.

And make the closest chaos waste settlement small and far off. If the DE start with towers at that border they'll see them come a mile off and can easily bolster defences when needed.

[elvenico]

Also, maybe, the basic unit, could be somewhat cheap and easily available.
I mean, every single dark elf is used as soldier in the witch king armies... so basically all the dark elf population have a basic training and can be used as basic cannon fooder.

[Spankfurt]

In many ways, GW(games workshop) Contradicts itself. It makes it seem as if the forces of good have waining populations, yet it keeps on killing off millions of people either way. The dark elves should be extinct the way they're going, unless they're part Irish and have whole clans of children :D

[Lordy]

In many ways, GW(games workshop) Contradicts itself. It makes it seem as if the forces of good have waining populations, yet it keeps on killing off millions of people either way. The dark elves should be extinct the way they're going, unless they're part Irish and have whole clans of children :D

Your bang on with that, its something GW needs to sort out, High Elves and Dwarves breed at a slow rate and are classed as dying, yet they seem to throw thousands upon thousands of lives away, they, along with Dark Elves should be extinct.

Lizardmen is another example of that, they hardly hatch any new civilization, yet they again throw thousands at invaders.

P.S sorry for taking it off topic :no:

[Enthes]

well warhammer wouldent be very good if it was just humans vs chaos as chaos would win (wasent the first version of warhammer just chaos?)

[MangyElf]

(wasent the first version of warhammer just chaos?)
I decided to dig out a few of my now scarce memories with some friendly reminicing amoung friends so...

Nope, it had other races like humans, goblins and night elves too. The latter became dark elves later, I think when slann appeared, in 2nd edition. Most notably, magic was different, there was next to no 'depth' and armies were not well-balanced at all. It took 2nd edition to even think of point values (if I remember rightly) but in an open-ended way so that wasn't balanced particularly well either. Too much scope for affording anything and stacking your army 'deck' with good stuff. It wasn't until 3rd edition that they got tighter on that but since then I guess their development has been aimed at rules simplification as well as background. Not a bad thing mind, not when 3rd edition was pretty complex, especially movement.

2nd edition was the first I played, though a friend of mine picked up an old copy of 1st edition for us to laugh at. That's mainly because it had virtually no background and was pretty simple; if anything I'm probably understating it too. Of course we laughed at 2nd edition as well, with it's vimto monks and dark elf 'ninjas' being aimed at what I can only assume was adolescent male powertrip fantasies of the day. Ah the nostalgia, especially when we used to get ads on TV for the Vimto soft drink *grin*.

WH background was in development through White Dwarf articles and such for a while before the WHFRP game came out but that's what really brought background character to the WHFB game. Of course much was 'borrowed' but then what isn't in an RP setting, especially one that was meant to be loosely based on real life stuff. Almost unforgiveable though was the rule borrowing, some, er, 'inspired' by Runequest that GW had rights to publish once upon a time. It makes me chuckle whenever someone mentions lawsuits and getting closed down, considering this is very much a fact - they nicked stuff themselves and while the companies concerned existed, though they changed enough to make it pass inspection. One example I recall off the top of my head is the 1st edition WHFRP to hit table, which is exactly the same as that used by Chaosium for RQ, except they replaced the scale with different dice. I don't doubt they'd pursue such things but I wonder if they'd have to defend their own past actions, by doing the exact same thing they'd be accusing others of.

Their creativity may have been somewhat lacking (in fact Bwian and crew have probably put more effort into this mod than the designers did into 1st edition WHFB!) but their marketing strategy can't be faulted. That's easily evidenced by the fact that they're still here after all this time, especially when many game companies aren't. To some extent they probably had a hand in that however, seeing as how they had stores (quite often the only RP dedicated stores) in many UK cities, along with a dedicated RPing magazine that reduced and then stopped promoting other company's products. It was all part of the original marketting push, with the sole aim of enabling Mr Ansell to float the company and then sell it, though he bought it back, or bought into it again I think. Hmm, probably a good job the life of "Bwian" is well known or I might be tempted to think the name was an homage to Mr Ansell ;)

Oh yeah, to make this vaguely resemble the topic (maybe too late, sorry), please, no dark elf ninjas :p

[Silly Knicket]

nooooo!!!111!!! gief drak elv nijnas plx!!!

























...or perhaps not, on a second thought ;)
Nice with a little history though, I used to play (and still own the rules) of 1st edition 40K, 1st edition Blood Bowl and 2nd edition WHFB and GW was quite different back in the days.
Can´t say all changes have been to the better, they released some pretty nice games back then... old epic, Adeptus Titanicus and so on... but well, well...
I'm very much off-topic.

[DrZoidberg]

But we'll surely have dark elf pirates?

[Silly Knicket]

Pirates commanded by Captain Drizzt Blackbeard? Yarr!

[Dinyang]

we should get more split land the 7 towers of naggororth not the chaos waste one i mean the cites har ganath? the witch elf place and exucuinors and malikeths city the capital

[fireblade]

Aren't there six? The Six Cities? Har Ganeth, Hag Graef, Klar Karond, Karond Kar, Ghrond and Naggarond.

This should be the only cities they start with. The watchtowers to the north should be represented by forts/ watchtowers.

Fireblade

[Underway]

Fireblade is correct. The large cities should be the main focus of the DE territories. Any more would make them to powerful. In going with the GW fluff here is a bit on their cities

Naggarond: Capital city, home of the Witchking Malekith and the feared Black Guard units. Should be a city in the game.

Clar Karond: to the south of the sea of chill, home of the DE navy, where most of the Corsair units come from. Should be a city in the game as well.

Har Ganeth: Home of the Executioners unit. Once a HE army was captured here and the whole city was covered in blood of sacrifice. This should be a city.

Hag Graef: Where the original Cold Ones were captured, in the mines of Hag Graef. This should be a citadel with the ability to have mines in the territory.

Klar Karond: Huge trading city where all the slaves are brought to be sold, it is also home to the beastmasters. Should be a city.

Ghrond: This was built as a defence against chaos invasions, and was given over to the Temple of Khaine, and has a large contingent of sorcerers. Definantely a citadel.

Watchtowers should just be that in the game, watchtowers. Let characters build them themselves.

[Maniacus]

Might be a bit off topic here but wouldnt a reskinned battle field assasins/hassashim be able to fullfill the role of shade and shadow warrior (if either will exist in mod)?

[Eufarius]

If I remember correctly Bwian said that all the units in this mod would be authentic and that he wil do no re-skinning. I hope that helps to answer your question.:2thumbsup:

[Maniacus]

Mmm reskinning the models might have been a poor choice of words, what i was trying to say was to use the code or w/e u call it which allows the battlefield assasins to dissapear if standing still for shades/shadow warriors. Just the mention of a ninja made me think bout it

[Goncalou]

Mmm reskinning the models might have been a poor choice of words, what i was trying to say was to use the code or w/e u call it which allows the battlefield assasins to dissapear if standing still for shades/shadow warriors. Just the mention of a ninja made me think bout it

dont shadow warriors use bows though.

[Goncalou]

O.K., here it is im gonna tell u all the names of the dark elf characters and units: Beastlord Rakarth of Karond Kar, Kouran, Captain of the Black Guard, Tullaris of Har Ganeth, Shadowblade, Master of Assassins, Malus Darkblade, Scion of Hag Graef, Morathi, The Hag Sorceress, and Malekith, the Wicth King. Now for the units: Spearmen, Crossbowmen, Corsair, Dark Rider, Shade, Wicth Elf, Cold One Chariot, Cold One Knight, Executioner, Harpies, Hydra, Black Guard, Reaper Bolt Thrower, Manticore, Dark Pegasus, Dark Steed, Black Dragon, and Cold One. Sorry, i no there will be no flying units but i included them anyway. And finally for the cities:Ghrond, Karon Kar, Har Ganeth, Naggorond, Hag Graef, Clar Karond, and Arnhiem. There it is all the cities, units, and characters. P.S. theres 7+ wacth towers on the chaos border, and another charcater is that Queen of the Wicth Elves that hates the cult of Slaanesh.
P.S.S. will there be an option for dark elf players to become the cult of Slaanesh, that would be kind of cool, Thanks.:knight: :duel: :sagittarius:

[Goncalou]

Fireblade is correct. The large cities should be the main focus of the DE territories. Any more would make them to powerful. In going with the GW fluff here is a bit on their cities

Naggarond: Capital city, home of the Witchking Malekith and the feared Black Guard units. Should be a city in the game.

Clar Karond: to the south of the sea of chill, home of the DE navy, where most of the Corsair units come from. Should be a city in the game as well.

Har Ganeth: Home of the Executioners unit. Once a HE army was captured here and the whole city was covered in blood of sacrifice. This should be a city.

Hag Graef: Where the original Cold Ones were captured, in the mines of Hag Graef. This should be a citadel with the ability to have mines in the territory.

Klar Karond: Huge trading city where all the slaves are brought to be sold, it is also home to the beastmasters. Should be a city.

Ghrond: This was built as a defence against chaos invasions, and was given over to the Temple of Khaine, and has a large contingent of sorcerers. Definantely a citadel.

Watchtowers should just be that in the game, watchtowers. Let characters build them themselves.

What about Arnhiem, that should be a starting place or rebel settlement shouldn't it. And can the modders make the wacth towers like the permanent forts in the brittania campaign or something.:feedback:

[Goncalou]

how will u guys do the DE family tree, because Malekith can't have any children cause in the DE army book it says the first child born from the powerful dark sorcerer (malekith assumes this is himself) will over throw him. so will malus darkblade or another character be the faction heir or will malekith adopt people, or will he just not be able to die of old age please give me some feedback i love the total war series and the dark elves, lizardmaen, brettonia, high elves, and wood elves warhammer. :feedback: :sharky:

[fireblade]

What about Arnhiem, that should be a starting place or rebel settlement shouldn't it. And can the modders make the wacth towers like the permanent forts in the brittania campaign or something.:feedback:

Arnhelm as is the elf way to write it (arnheim is the spelling used by empire scholars) is a high elf outpost on the shores of naggaroth.

Cult of slaanesh would be a nice option, but something which should be in a second version, there is work enough to do already without another faction i believe. It would be somehow similar to the lithuanians becoming christian in kingdoms.

About malekith, what about something like the teutonic order, no family tree but a bunch of generals of which one will become king after malekith dies (in battle that is)

Fireblade

Please, post one time only, and edit your posts if you want to add something.

[Goncalou]

If you guys that are making the mod havent figured out unit names yet besides things like elite and veteran spearmen you guys could use that factions/units champion/hero/lord/ names. So for dark elf spearmen it would go like this: Spearmen, Lordling Spearmen, Noble Spearmen, and finally Highborn Spearmen.
P.S. Can u tell me which faction the DE are being modeled after, cause i no chaos is denmark, brettonia is france, and empire is the holy roman empire, so if u can tell me id really appreciate it, thanks.:gossip:

[Eufarius]

Milan I think.

[Severe]

How strangely fitting, Milan being the sneaky back-stabbing bastards they are.

The Cult of Slaanesh could work simply as a trait or a part of a retinue. I'm not too savvy on Slaanesh, so don't know what the effects would be, but that's one way of doing it. The Lithuania-model could work as well.

[Maniacus]

How strangely fitting, Milan being the sneaky back-stabbing bastards they are.

The Cult of Slaanesh could work simply as a trait or a part of a retinue. I'm not too savvy on Slaanesh, so don't know what the effects would be, but that's one way of doing it. The Lithuania-model could work as well.

-X% to income tax to represent slaves/money being spent on their excesses
+X Morale to units on the battlefield to represent their lust for the pleasures (and pains of battle).

Something like that if the whole Slaneesh thing would be a simple trait rather than a faction which IMHO is better since theres already enough work on the platter.

[Kuningaz]

I really like the idea of doing the heir thing like the teutonic order and I really think that family members of some factions(namely: dark,high and wood elves, and lizardmen) should not die of age or at a very high age (dwarfes).

Btw I just discovered this mod and would like to know: How far are you yet?

[Goncalou]

Hey, i have idea that characters from warhammer world in this mod should start out with the items they have, like malekith has his armour of midnight, his hand of khaine and his sword destroyer. plus i have ideas for what each of these can do, the armour adds plus 4-8 hitpoints, the hand and sword add atack, and then he should also have a bunch of traits that give him dread or something like that.:idea2: :thinking2: :northernireland: :greece: :ca-alberta: :knight:

[DaCrAzYmOfO]

Dark elves are so hot. And the Executioner-esque look suits them hot elves well....oh gosh I cant wait for this mod oh gosh....

I nearly shit myself when i saw the models in the soul storm demo...I just cant wait to see what you guys can pull off ...

[Cambyses]

Well,

Malekith and the Hag Queen should both be immortal really. Just cannot die of old age - ever. They both can have a negative effect on popoulation growth to represent the dark sorceries and sacrifices they use to stay young.

And surely if Malekith is killed the faction should be destroyed?

Anyway, sounds great - looking forward to seeing this finished.

[Goncalou]

Well,

Malekith and the Hag Queen should both be immortal really. Just cannot die of old age - ever. They both can have a negative effect on popoulation growth to represent the dark sorceries and sacrifices they use to stay young.

And surely if Malekith is killed the faction should be destroyed?

Anyway, sounds great - looking forward to seeing this finished.

If Malekith dies, the factio is elimiated. that would make it to easy to kill the team with assassims uless he had really low assassi attemt rate. so plus the everody would just go after him ad he'd die too quickly, like the the pope.:thinking2:

[Kuningaz]

Well I think he should be almost impossible to assasinate (like +10 personal security or sth.)

[ratbarf]

Or you could maybe code something that all assasins within his (hopefully long) line of sight can be killed by DE assassins. Also make the DE assassins totally badass, seeing as how they are utterly ridiculous in the table top game...

[Kuningaz]

Well here are some thoughts to summarize that stuff up (I hope u all agree):
DE units:
Spearmen
Crossbowmen
Corsairs (maybe recruited in towns with harbours?)
Black riders (or whatever they're called in english^^)
Witch warriors (no idea what they're called in english, really; should be recruited in temples)
Shadows (something like battle assasins with crossbows?)
Cold-one battle wain (hope that's correct in english^^)
Cold-one knights
Executoners (maybe only recruitable in Har Ganeth?)
War Hydra (if possible)
Black Guard (definitely only recruitable in Naggarond)
Blood Bowl (or however that thing's called; should be a bit like those big italian crosses)
That big spear-thrower (I really really have no idea how you call that in english)

Cities should be the 6 cities mentioned in the codex I agree with Underworld in that point. The watchtowers in the north should be watchtowers and forts (maybe permanent one with free upkeep units if u use Kingdoms)

DE navy should probably have VERY many movement points to represent their accses to the underworld sea?

Characters:

Malekith (faction leader of course, immortal by age, very many hitpoints and personal security due to his magical armor, if he is killed DE dies?)
Morathi (faction heir probably?, also immortal by age, many hitpoints and extremely high personal security due to her enchantments)
Malus Darkblade (general)
Rakarth (general)
Kouran (general)
Tullaris (general)
Shadowblade (extreme-high-level assasin)
One or two additional minor family members (like Lord Yeurl for example)

I think malektih should not be able to get children, the other guys should be.

I hope you will find my list usefull (and acceptable). I would love to do something to help you guys finish this mod but since I can't modell or script I have only to offer you my services in writing unit's descriptions and stuff (for Dark elves and lizardmen). If you could recommend me some tutorials for modding I'd be really glad. Please let me help

[Goncalou]

you got it pretty much right but since i have book handy i can tell all.
Units Champion
Spearmen (recruited at barracks) Lordling
Crossbowmen (recruited at archery range) Lordling
Shades (i have no idea. they live in mountains) Blood Shades
cold one knights (recruited at stables) Dread knight
cold one chariots (recruited at stables) none
reaper bolt thrower (recruited at ballista maker) none
dark riders (recruited at stables) Herald
witch elves (recruited at temple, like norse war clerics) Hag
corsairs (recruited at port kind of like merchant cavalry militia) Reaver
executioners (recruited at barracks) Draich-Master
cauldron of blood (increases morale, decreases enemy morale) none
harpies (undoable, they have flying) none
black guard (high morale, pikes)
War hydra (pretty sure it's undoable)

Major Heroes

Malekith (king)
Morathi (mother of malekith/ maybe queen, maybe family member)
Malus Darkbalde (great general, maybe decreases morale of allies and enemies, general or family member)
Hellebron (leader of witch elves)
Shadowblade (really good assassin)
Rakarth (good general, bonus when commanding cavalry, general)
Tullaris of Har Ganeth(inspires fear to enemy units, general)
Kouran captain of the Black Guard(same as cauldron of blood, general)

Minor heroes

Highborn (family member)
High Sorceress (dont no how magic will work)
Noble (general)
Sorceress (same as high sorceress)
Assassin (he's an assassin)
Beastmaster (i have no idea)

Special Abilities

More gold from sacking settlements
Ships have more movement points
Assassin start out with at least 3 agents skill
More income from mines

And i know i maybe should've posted this in the suggestion box so i posted it there too.

[Kuningaz]

Hm yeah you posted pretty much the same I posted, actually I also did this with my faction's book in my hand but it's in german^^. Thanks though for telling me the correct names. What do you think about restricting the recruitment of certain units (executioners, black guard) to their home cities? Would make the DE much more of a challenge I think. Absoulutely agree with the special abilities.

Here another idea: have temples of khaine be allowed to hold sacrifices like the indian temples in Kingdoms, would be really cool^^.

I maybe wrong but I think there can only be one type of general that can be used.
Actually I posted my stuff here because I thought it was correct to post DE suggestions to the DE thread but I may be wrong here too.^^

[Caradrayan]

I like the idea of Making Malekith immortal, and giving him huge bonuses vrs assassins. He should have a pretty huge list of traits and ancillaries.

How should he show up on the battlefield? I think a chariot would be easier than a dragon.

I'm not sure if the faction should be eliminated if he dies. Fluff wise, there would be infighting, but I can't imagine the whole kingdom would just implode. I would suggest instead that all the chars should be immortal, and have bonuses vrs assassins, and children should be rare. In fact, you could have the message be "acknowledged heir" instead of "a child is born" we don't know how long it takes elves to grow up from birth, but it makes sense that not all children would enter the line of succession in dark elf society.

This way, dark elf chars are precious, but the enemy faction can't just off them.

[Cambyses]

One idea for making Malekith immortal and powerful without turning him into a total monster is to give him very low movement (-80%). It seems unrealistic that he would really fight in many battles unless it was some massive/crucial encounter.

Another idea might be to make him into a building. Yes I know it sounds weird :idea2: , but it would be virtually impossible to kill him easily that way, plus he wouldnt be too involved in day to day affairs of the DE - which again seems realistic. He could though give some massive bonuses to the city where he is located and may be able to recruit some kind of very expensive chariot general for special occassions.

I stick by my original proposal that on his death the faction is eliminated, as without him the dark elf nation surely couldnt exist in the same state? If the whole area goes rebel but then has a chance to respawn as a new faction later on - symbolizing the emergence of a new ruler. Could that work? I dont know what kind of restrictions are built into what you can or cant mod in areas like this. Sorry, hope my suggestions are helpful... :beam:

[Goncalou]

One idea for making Malekith immortal and powerful without turning him into a total monster is to give him very low movement (-80%). It seems unrealistic that he would really fight in many battles unless it was some massive/crucial encounter.

Another idea might be to make him into a building. Yes I know it sounds weird :idea2: , but it would be virtually impossible to kill him easily that way, plus he wouldnt be too involved in day to day affairs of the DE - which again seems realistic. He could though give some massive bonuses to the city where he is located and may be able to recruit some kind of very expensive chariot general for special occassions.

I stick by my original proposal that on his death the faction is eliminated, as without him the dark elf nation surely couldnt exist in the same state? If the whole area goes rebel but then has a chance to respawn as a new faction later on - symbolizing the emergence of a new ruler. Could that work? I dont know what kind of restrictions are built into what you can or cant mod in areas like this. Sorry, hope my suggestions are helpful... :beam:
well he does fight in battle, not sure how often though, and is concerned with DE society's affairs, but just making sure they hate and are attacking the high elves. and Kuningaz i think those are good ideas but not sure what modders think.:sharky: and Caradrayan, i dnot think there should be big family tree, just malekith morathi, maybe few other major characters, and the rest of them be generals.

[Caradrayan]

ah now that makes sense, give the family tree huge personal security, no children, recruit generals as needed.

[Krazysigmarite]

For all you dark elf fans out there, here's a work in progress for you. Shields and armor/helmet variations, as well as steel armguards coming soon!

For now, enjoy.


https://img294.imageshack.us/img294/4884/krazysigmaritedarkelfwims4.jpg

[Legion]

that's straight up delicious

[Raz]

I thought you might've been able to slap on some weapon variations, weapons being easier to make than armour and shields... but "that's straight up delicious", I must say. :grin:

[Goncalou]

thats a spicy meatballa. like that's freaking amazing. :couch:

[Severe]

Looks awesomastic.

[Eufarius]

Good, progress that has been expected has now been shown.

[Taranaich]

YOU SEE! YOU SEE! The mod lives dammit!

And for all it's a work-in-progress, still of the high quality we've come to expect, but still manage to be surprised by. :smash:

[Panda]

Firstly this mod looks amazing! :beam:

and i know that i may get slaughtered for asking this BUT

when ROUGHLY will the mod be playable?

and where will i be able to download it from? :beam:

please someone tell me because i hate waiting for amazing things :wall:

[Eufarius]

Welcome to the forums first of all , second the mod in in progress and many do not know the release date.

[Panda]

hehe thank you :beam:

sorry if i did post it in the wrong place :sweatdrop:

but I am incredibly excited about this mod and i suppose to redeem myself I better say something about Dark Elves :idea2:

They are pretty cool I guess but i'm definately looking forward to the orcs and lizardmen more...

and chaos :2thumbsup:

[Kuningaz]

Just looked in after a couple of weeks (actually thought this was dead, sry^^)
I have to admit I almost shit myself when I saw those awsome dark-elves. Make more plz^^

Btw: Malekith IS an extremely powerfull superweapon and giving him lesser movement would be pretty unrealistic due to his dragon, but maybe you could give him a huge upkeep cost and free upkeep only in Naggaroth?
Just a suggestion

[Goncalou]

Kuningaz i definitely have to agree with you there, but maybe make the upkeep just huge, not extremely huge. And whoever said to make him a building, you're a witch!