View Full Version : An odd request... a better UI
Reverend Joe
11-24-2007, 20:51
I know, it's a little off-the-wall, but can we have the old MTW/STW battlemap user interface back? I mean, it doesn't have to be exactly the same (with such a different game, it couldn't be) but the UI used to be so much more informative. You could easily glance at the bottom bar and see morale, fatigue, etc., and all the commands were in big blocky buttons at the top of the screen. No farting around with fancier but clunkier UI's.
So, CA: can we have the simple UI back, maybe just as an option?
It should be there as an option indeed. I think I might have complained about it in the wish list for M2TW. New Style (what is more or less standard now) and Old Style (STW) and of course one should be enabled to easily adjust the settings to some kind of middle ground if wished so. Naturally the controls should be taken into account. Superior flexibility.
But I don't think they're up to it for whatever reason there may be.
The people that this game is being sold to do not understand that having separate buttons for hold position and hold formation is better than having both functionalities combined into a single button. More flexibility is the opposite direction from where Total War is being taken. Just look at the interface of the naval battles for example.
When a button that has two settings ON and OFF and a decent visual representation what it does it is clear enough. If for instance ON means 'unit members are spread out' then OFF obviously means 'unit members are not spread out'.
And any sane well-minded player would be using keyboard shortcuts anyway combined with the mouse for overall better and balanced control.
I think it has to do more with what a person finds more enjoyable or clearer and so on, not really if it's objectively better or not.
But they -- CA and whoever exercises.... "certain control" -- should really consider more flexibility regarding setup and the likes. Then again the more options and flexibility the more likely the general difficulty of the interface or the game increases: if it's kept simple, clear, and highly effective, it's good; the more things there are to tweak or to pay attention to, and such, the higher the chance of unnecessary confusion, redundancy, or learning curve.
But for experienced/veteran/power players it could be very good.
No i don´t think old STW UI will be implented back since it´s already told that there will be factories, buildings, docks or something where armies can go defending... Those that choose to hide in buildings should be given change not to be destroyed by greatly outnumbering enemy.
Drag&Drop would otherwise be good but i personally like the old system where you can avoid fighting and choose terrain you like.
Hello Bijo,
Hold position and hold formation are two different things in STW. So there are four possible combinations, one on/off button doesn't allow to control that.
The hold position and hold formation buttons seem to have been condensed to make way for the special ability button. In STW/MTW the idea of Hold Position was to stop units chasing routers and return to their positions after winning a battle. Hold Formation was only useful for spearmen when forming up to absorb a cavalry charge or defending a position.
If you have a group of high attack and low defence axe infantry or cavarly that you're using in defensive role as flankers, it makes sense to place them in hold position to prevent them from straying, but no sense at all to place them in hold formation as this will seriously hit their offensive ability.
I can see no reason why the original two separate buttons could not have been used.
My other annoyance is with the "classic interface" (the STW/MTW style Minimal UI) for battles. In RTW (not sure about M2TW) this autohides itself which is unnecessary. It would be better to have it always visible. I found that when clicking near the horizon to order a unit the interface would keep popping up instead, forcing me to reposition the angle of view.
The right click pop up menus are also a feature that I miss. In STW/MTW you could right click on a unit to change it's order, formation etc instead of using the top interface or keyboard shortcuts. It's nice to have alternatives.
My other annoyance is with the "classic interface" (the STW/MTW style Minimal UI) for battles. In RTW (not sure about M2TW) this autohides itself which is unnecessary. It would be better to have it always visible. I found that when clicking near the horizon to order a unit the interface would keep popping up instead, forcing me to reposition the angle of view.
Bring up the menu during a battle and edit the 'UI Options' - you can change that ~;)
The right click pop up menus are also a feature that I miss. In STW/MTW you could right click on a unit to change it's order, formation etc instead of using the top interface or keyboard shortcuts. It's nice to have alternatives.
This is actually one of the very few major improvements to gameplay over STW/MTW interface, I have found. left click = select and right click = command has proved to be a winner. Old style controls are hugely frustrating when units get bunched up and I never really used right click pop up menus anyway.
Bring up the menu during a battle and edit the 'UI Options' - you can change that ~;)
Now that I did not know, I'll check that out later. Do I have to do it at the start of every battle or will it stick?
This is actually one of the very few major improvements to gameplay over STW/MTW interface, I have found. left click = select and right click = command has proved to be a winner. Old style controls are hugely frustrating when units get bunched up and I never really used right click pop up menus anyway.
No, I wasn't referring to left click/right click. I concur that is an improvement. I was referring to the right click pop up menus that appeared when you right clicked a unit in STW/MTW.
Now that I did not know, I'll check that out later. Do I have to do it at the start of every battle or will it stick?
It's only in M2TW, and you just have RTW don't you?
It's only in M2TW, and you just have RTW don't you?
So I'll still have to put up with the interface autohiding then. :thumbsdown:
ElectricEel
12-03-2007, 19:11
IIRC there's a keyboard shortcut to stop the command buttons from autohiding in RTW - it's one of F5, F6 or F7, I think. The other two of those keys hide or unhide the minimap and the unit cards.
A clean lobby is a must for viable multiplayer community. I would like to suggest a clean, uncluttered, adjustable font lobby with ignore, banned, friendlist and chat features. I elaborate:
1. COMMON GAMES PANE
1.1 GAME LIST all games listed in this pane (game matchmaker server maintains a list of created and on going games and broadcast it to every clients each time a game change states; client may need to receive the updated info, not every thing to limit the bandwidth. Even so, the game list wouldn't be enormous, full broadcast isn't a bad idea);
1.2 FILTER filter feature may limit the games displayed on the common games pane (clients has filter and display only the interested games. Common filterable parameters are: game status (waiting to fill up, started, finishing); number of players; money per player; lag, etc. This could be implemented entirely on clientside. Since clients has nothing to do in lobby except chatting, CPU on client side isn't a problem);
1.3 SORT sort feature may sort the games according to parameters. (Again, this is entirely clientside implementation).
1.4 LIMIT filter feature may limit what kind of parameter to display. A parameter that is interesting to have is "who host the game and who are currently in the game". (The game server already has that information, when a client click join a game) A client may display for example "Name of game, host, who joined". (Again, this is entirely a clientside implementation, as long as the game server has the relevant parameters and broadcast along to the clients).
2. PLAYERS PANE
Similar to games pane in implementation:
2.1 LIST All players are listed in this pane.
2.2 FILTER filter feature may limit the list. Useful filter parameter: name prefix (to include/exclude clans), in or out of friend list, in or out of ban list; in or out of game, etc.)
2.3 SORT sort feature will prioritize the players in list
3. CHAT PANES
Chat panes implementation is strictly client side. Technically, all chat snippets are broadcasted: client->server->all clients. Clients filter and display chat in separate "windows".
3.1 COMMON CHAT PANE
everyone has this chat pane. Presses "Enter" will start text message to send to this chat pane. It will limit the display to the last few lines, but the history is scrollable, savable.
3.2 PRIVATE/CONFERENCE CHAT PANES
Must allow people to select names and start a conference.
3.3 ALL CHAT PANES ARE COLLAPSIBLE
Chat panes, including Common Chat, are collapsible to display only a tab which flashes if the pane has new messages.
4. PREGAME CHAT
When a player join a game, the game list is replaced by current game parameters (such as who take which color, etc.) All other feature stay the same, with the addition of two default chat panes. Players can still chat to outside players, to common chat, etc. all existing panes before the player join the game stays the same. The two new panes are: Conference to current players in game, and conference to allies in game.
When player join a game, they may still want to finish up current convo in existing conferences.
5. FRIEND LIST
Friendlist is strictly clientside. Friendlist is crucial to have effective ignore/mute and ban features.
5.1 CLANS: First circle of friends are people in my clan. This list could be used to filter display of players and sort it so that the first circle of friends is always displayed on top of the player list. For people who don't join clans, it is still possible to use this to denote closest friends. You can conference to these people at a click of a menu. When you ask someone to be in that circle, they must also mutually agree too.
5.2 FRIENDS/ALLIES: Second circle of friends are those who are not in the first circle, but are special or notable, so you may want to see next on friendlist. You can add someone to your friendlist but they don't have to add you to their friend list.
5.3 IGNORE/MUTE: these people you don't want to see their chat.
5.4 BAN: these people you don't want to join your games.
5.5 Send IGNORE/MUTE/BAN lists to clanies or friends. They may merge their list to yours to make a more comprehensive policing of the community. They may decline your offer. With this, hope is that there is no need for Mr. ChatMonitor. (Caveat: needs to make sure worm/virus cannot be propagate this way. It is similar to a chat text save in a way).
All this is done again strictly on client-side. The server needs only to pass on the messages.
6. PRESENTATION: Please abandon presentation of arcade games of old, with garish background, unreadable/overside fonts, etc.
6.1 FONT: Normal sans-serif font is good. Size must be compatible to what their monitor can display. It is a waste to have a good graphic card (necessary to play the game) which can display 1600x1024, a matching monitor, but the lobby can only display 80 characters across with busy background that hurts the eye (yes, I single out R:TW yellow on red theme as particularly bad). Better yet, let player choose font type, font size and background!
6.2 MENU: Menu across the top of the display may be useful (such as setting filter parameters, etc.)
6.3 FRIEND LIST MANAGEMENT. Facilitate add/remove/merge lists. Since friendlist is a text file anyway, a way to edit it.
For the love of the game, am I asking too much?
Annie
IN GAME CHAT
I would like to restore two buttons chat (and a third button to bring up a menu).
1. CHAT TO ALL (the M:TW "t")
2. CHAT TO ALLY (the M:TW "y")
3. A third key may bring up more fancy things such as chat to particular players or point to interesting landmarks.
Perhaps landmarks could be represented by a number of flags. on the battlefield itself.
Annie
locked_thread
01-26-2008, 02:55
edit
you can... turn it off :)
annie
IIRC there's a keyboard shortcut to stop the command buttons from autohiding in RTW - it's one of F5, F6 or F7, I think. The other two of those keys hide or unhide the minimap and the unit cards.
I've been using this for a while now, I tried F6 and that did the trick, thanks!
:2thumbsup:
Wolf_Kyolic
01-30-2008, 17:50
Ctrl+A and double click on enemy. That isn't all we need? Elephants and other uber units do the rest... I am confused! ~:confused:
Hold formation, hold position... Who needs them? :saint:
About hotkeys in MTW, the keys ctrl+r are possibly the best keys ever invented for the keyboard. It's about the only hotkey I can remember and use effectively, that and "ctrl"+"a". I also like the "ctrl"+"a" then "ctrl"+"o" when you're in a tight spot. ~:joker:
But, back on topic. They've got the Full UI. They've got Minimal UI. I see no reason why they can't add an Old-School UI. :cool4:
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