skirmish class

[Red Spot]

More of a hint than a real tutorial or guide, but one I thought might be very interesting ...

As you can read in the EDU-Guide (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=88859) there is a "skirmish" tag for unit-class, wich can be used for both infantry as well as cavalry, where the most important thing is;
its not used at all in vanilla so you can freely use it for your own needs

This tag causes the unit to gain the ability to skirmish, however this ability may be hidden (as in; no button will show letting you control it)

I've been using this tag on first cohorts and generals cavalry, on the cohorts I set the "default_melee_state" "fire_at_will" wich automaticly causes the skirmish stance to get disabled(though through formations it possibly may be re-enabled :hint:)
and on generals I set no melee_state at all wich means the game dictates wich starting stance the unit gets wich means any unit that can skirmish starts with it enabled, so is also the case with the generals

Nice thing about it is that if the AI usually orders an attack by the general anyway so it overrides and (temporarilly) disables the skirmish behaviour and acts just as any other heavy cavalry (they still send them into overwelming forces as if they're about to take candy from a baby :D)
but above all it allows the player to fight a game and not babysit its generals if they havent yet been ordered to attack (I actually noticed it when I saw my general running away from some enemy cavalry chasing it that I hadnt noticed in time ... else could have been my generals life...) nor does it easilly allow you to surprise one of the AI's generals

In the case of the Legions, I still dont believe they actually are skirmishers and have the potential to skirmish (though comes with an interesting option for defensive battles), the AI does nothing but trow them into melee ... ;) (as long as some melee_state is forced upon the unit, possibly even a false flag(as in one that doesnt really do anything))

Basicly you have a way of making a diff. between some units and possibly use some of those features in the normal way (making say, skirmish cavalry) or use it in a slighly diff. way and give the unit some "1 time" abilities

now going to test if I can re-enable skirmishing on these units (wich I forgat ..:inquisitive: )
than need to see if it makes an impact on the campaign-game, wether the AI still builds first cohorts as they did before


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[Aradan]

This isn't a 1-time thing thankfully. Units with skirmish class will keep avoiding melee once their target unit has been eliminated. And they will stay in skirmish mode unless they are commanded to attack with their secondary weapon (if that exists). Also, skirmish mode doesn't seem to affect their offensive capabilities at all (ie generals still kick butts)

From what I remember the AI treats units with skirmish class as infantry and so will keep training them. Still that research was quite some time ago, so perhaps I missed something...

[Lysander13]

From what I remember the AI treats units with skirmish class as infantry and so will keep training them. Still that research was quite some time ago, so perhaps I missed something...
That's the problem with this tag. It works of course perfectly when your coding your own formations or messing around with anyone else's....but the campaign AI does seem to spam this unit as if it were infantry class. As if the code is viable, however, perhaps not fully implemented. Which is the case it seems to me to be a recurring theme with anything having to with the AI. I never like to use this class and change it if i happen to be playing a mod that does.

[Aradan]

Whatever the case with AI recruitment, the tag is still useful for generals I think, since they are not recruited anyway.
And perhaps cavalry generally, since cavalry units have their own category tag (cavalry) so the AI won't confuse them with regular infantry, like it does with infantry units that have "skirmish" class. This will need some testing though before one can say with certainty, on both start- and battle-map.

[Red Spot]

did a few more tests

cant see any diff. in recruiting these units on the campaign-map, doesnt say there isnt a difference but the AI seems to keep recruiting them as if they still where the exact same troops

on the battlefield I do recommend making sure skirmish isnt used for a unit not intended to use it, or only use it in defensive mode
like I'm not going to use skirmish behaviour on the legions as they become a bit to easy to charge from behind, as these slow men are easilly caught by some cavalry
on family I'm going to use it one the actual general and on all when in defensive mode, as the engine tries to use them in cavalry formations as well (for flanking purpose) and this doesnt really work well in an attack with also skirmishing behaviour, sometimes causing an entire flanking cav.-formation to wait for the skirmisher to join the formation(making them easy pickings for archers and counter-attacks)

when you group units and call for a formation from the formation file(press one of the formation buttons) the skirmish behaviour can be re-enabled, or prevented ....


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[Red Spot]

I've made a mistake concerning the melee-button on skirmish class units that do not have the "prec" tag in EDU, as they do have the button ..

Though I love my solution .. precursor cavalry, top of the line general, that charges in trowing pila to do melee with its sword;

type roman generals guard cavalry
dictionary roman_generals_guard_cavalry ; Roman General (Recruit in Huge_City)
category cavalry
class skirmish
voice_type General_1
soldier roman_praetorian_cavalry, 12, 0, 1.0
officer roman_centurion2
officer roman_lesser_general
mount generals horse
mount_effect elephant -6, horse +6
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, general_unit, frighten_foot, very_hardy
formation 1.2, 3.0, 1.4, 3.0, 3, square
stat_health 2, 0
stat_pri 20, 24, pilum, 50, 3, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 0, 1.0
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown, ap
stat_sec 20, 24, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, sword, 0, 0.8
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 16, 30, 8, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 0
stat_ground 0, 0, -4, 2
stat_mental 40, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 2, 2000, 140, 80, 120, 2000
ownership roman

To bad you cant use a "heavy_pilum_cavalry" tag in formations ... :)


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