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econ21
12-20-2007, 02:03
This thread is for all out of character discussion of the King of the Romans PBM - a HRE M2TW game. Please post in this thread if you have any queries or are unsure where to post.

The list of players and description of their avatars is maintained in the first post of the Chancellor and Governors thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383081&postcount=1



*************KOTR FAQ (UPDATED)**********************

The following paragraphs are designed to provide a simple understanding of the KOTR game and how it works. If anything in these paragraphs conflicts with one of the Game Rules, the Rule takes precedent.

Introduction

The general idea of the King of the Romans (KOTR) game is to allow a large group of players to determine the fate and development of the Holy Roman Empire in M2TW.

All players are “Electors” and will belong to one of the four Ducal Houses, Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). Eventually all players will be represented by an in-game character known as an “avatar.” This will typically be a general, but agents such as spies, priests or diplomats can be used as well upon request. It is not advisable to use an assassin as an avatar, as they have short life expectancies. If a player’s avatar gets into a battle, the player is expected to download the savegame and fight the battle.

Collectively, the Electors form the Imperial Diet. This has two functions - to elect a Chancellor and to create Edicts. The Chancellor will be the “reigning player” and control the game during his term in office. He will move all the generals, authorize any buildings from the build queues and train any units/agents. “Edicts” are laws that require the Chancellor to take specific actions. These can be very wide ranging in scope, but typically include such things as declaring war against another nation, seeking an alliance with a neutral country, or making peace with an enemy nation.

How to Join the Game

In order to join the game and get started, all you need to do is post in the current OOC thread that you would like to join and select one of the four Ducal Houses. You can then start participating in as much or as little detail as you wish. You will always be able to find the location of the relevant game threads in the second post of the Imperial Library (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1383644&postcount=2).

The Ranks

KOTR attempts to mimic the feudal political system of medieval Europe. There are several ranks which each player can obtain, all of which come with their own benefit and responsibilities. If you wish to be highly involved, you can take on roles that require more work and responsibility. If you wish to simply observe and cast votes during election times, you will have to do very little. The extent of your involvement is entirely up to you.

Electors

All players, except the Emperor, are Electors, even if they hold another rank. It is the lowest rank in the game and all new players begin at this level. As an Elector, you may speak in the Imperial Diet, propose one Edict per session, vote on Edicts, and vote for Chancellor. All Electors belong to one of the Ducal Houses. You are not required to follow the orders or suggestions of your Duke, but he has the ability to bestow and remove ranks and privileges. If you have ambitions to rise to a higher rank, carefully consider whether your Duke will approve of your actions or not.

It is important to remember that you can only freely propose one personal Edict per Diet session. Choose an issue that is important to you and think very carefully about how you word it. A poorly worded or unimportant Edict can easily be ignored and forgotten. The only way you can propose more than one Edict per Diet session is through the approval of your Duke.

Electors will be provided with avatars on the basis of seniority; first come, first served. Generals are the most popular avatars and there may be a waiting period to obtain one. Agent avatars can usually be obtained quickly, but are not as complex and are not really suited for players who wish to rise to a higher rank. If you take a general as an avatar, you will be expected to fight any battles the avatar gets into, assuming he commands the army. You will have 48 hours in which to fight the battle after you are notified about it. When that time expires, the battle will be autoresolved, which could result in the death of your avatar. If you do not want to fight battles and there is a shortage of generals for avatars, please do not accept one. If you want an avatar but do not wish to fight, please consider using an agent.

Counts

Counts are prominent nobles within their Houses. The title of Count can be bestowed upon an Elector by his Duke. The role of Count is identical to that of an Elector with a general avatar, with a few exceptions.

A Count rules over one of the settlements (city or castle) in his Ducal House. The Count may, at his discretion, determine the order in which buildings are created in that settlement (build queue). The Chancellor is not required to build anything in the settlement, but if something is built, it must be in the order determined by the Count. The Count can also set the tax rate in his settlement, if it is a city. Counts gain a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. Counts can name an heir to take over their lands when they die. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar who is not already a Count.

There are two kinds of Counts: Freehold Counts and Bonded Counts. The difference is simple. Freehold Counts are the natural born sons of a Duke. They cannot be removed from control of their settlement, though the Duke can still name another as his heir if a Freehold Count displeases him. Bonded Counts are non-blood sons of a Duke, such as adoptees, sons-in-law, or anyone else who is not a natural born son. Bonded Counts can be stripped of their titles and lands at any time and for any reason by the Duke.

Dukes

Dukes are the heads of the Houses. They are figures of authority and they wield a great deal of power. There is only one Duke per House and a player can only become Duke by being the Duke’s heir at the time of his death. The role of Duke has many more powers than that of Count and Dukes gain a significant influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

The Duke rules over the capital of his House and all provinces which do not have a Count. Just like with a Count, the Duke can determine the build queue and tax rate for these settlements, but he can give orders for as many of them as he wishes. Dukes are also responsible for promoting and demoting Bonded Counts. A Duke may give any Elector with a general avatar the rank of Count, making them a Bonded Count. He may take away their lands at any time or switch their lands as he sees fit. The Duke can name an heir to take over as head of his House when he dies. For practical purposes, this should only be an Elector from your Ducal House with a general avatar, and it is recommended (though not necessary) that the person already be a Count.

The Duke is responsible for managing the affairs of his House and will often be dealing directly with the Chancellor and the Kaiser in high-level political discussions. Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. These can be the Duke’s own Edicts, but it is recommended that the Duke pick at least some of them from amongst the ‘extras’ his Electors want to put forward. It would be entirely appropriate for the Duke to use incentives and threats to ensure that the policies he wants get put forward. However, remember that even these extra Edict proposals must come pre-seconded by two members of his House. Don’t anger too many of your Electors or they could prevent you from using your extra Edict proposals!

Finally, the Duke controls the Household Army. The Household Army is the House’s personal military force and it is largely independent of outside control. The Duke is responsible for determining where it is garrisoned, who commands it, and what orders it is given. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Stewards

Stewards are Electors who are temporarily acting as Dukes. KOTR originally started with two Stewards, but for the most part, the title of Steward is a temporary one bestowed on a House Elector for a short time when a Duke is unavailable to fulfill his duties. In reality, this happens when a player who is a Duke is going on vacation or is otherwise going to be out-of-touch with the game for a short period of time.

Stewards have all of the powers of Dukes for the duration of their term, except that they cannot name an heir.

Emperor (Kaiser)

The Holy Roman Emperor is the supreme head of the Empire. It is a hereditary position. (Note: This is not historical, but there’s no way to change this in-game.) While the Emperor is theoretically the most powerful man in the entire Empire, in the KOTR game he plays a more subtle role. The Emperor gains an influence bonus equal to his authority during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor.

First, the Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet. It is his job to maintain order in the Diet and ensure that it runs smoothly. If there is a dispute about the Game Rules, the Emperor will make the final decision about the proper manner to follow the Rules.

Second, the Emperor does not belong to any of the Ducal Houses. Upon inheriting the throne, they leave their old House for good and lose any other titles (Elector, Count, Duke) that they might have. The Emperor is expected to act for the good of the Empire, rather than an individual House. While Emperors are expected to be impartial, they will certainly have strong opinions about what is best for the Empire. This may in turn result in them siding with Houses that support their decisions and working against Houses that they believe are hurting the Empire.

Third, Emperors allocate newly captured provinces to the Ducal Houses. When a province is captured, it comes under the direct control of the Emperor, who can control them in the same manner that the Dukes and the Counts can control their own lands. The Emperor may allocate any of his lands to any of the Ducal Houses. Once allocated, they cannot ever be returned to the Emperor. House provinces where are re-taken after being occupied by an enemy do not count as being “captured.”

Fourth, Emperors decide which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

Finally, Emperors can automatically assume the position of Chancellor for the first term after they are crowned. This power is not subject to Diet vote and no one can run against them. However, the Emperor still has the limitations of Chancellor while in office, which means he can be impeached by the Diet in exceptional circumstances. Any further attempts by the Emperor to be Chancellor must go through the normal election process.

Prince (Prinz)

The Prince is a largely unimportant role, significant mainly because he is the heir to the throne and will become the next Emperor. Unlike the title of Emperor, the title of Prince is added in addition to any other titles the player holds. This gives the player a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor. The Prince’s only duty is to preside over the Diet when the Emperor is absent.

There is no control over who becomes the new Prince once the current one assumes the throne. Like with the Emperor, this is a limitation imposed on us by the game itself. With luck, the role will only fall on players who seek to be active in the game. (*cross your fingers!*)

In practical terms, players must always remember that the Prince will inherit the throne, thus gaining power over the Houses through his ability to allocate newly conquered provinces. If you make an enemy of the Prince, your House might find itself smaller than the others when he becomes Emperor.

Chancellor

The position of Chancellor is without a doubt the most important and powerful one in KOTR. In game terms, the Chancellor is the person who actually plays the M2TW game. Unlike the other positions, you shouldn’t think of the Chancellor in the sense of what he can do, but rather what he cannot do. He is essentially playing the single player M2TW campaign with the following restrictions:

The Chancellor must obey the Game Rules and Edicts that have been passed by the Diet. Failure to do so can lead to impeachment by the Diet.

The Chancellor decides whether buildings are to be constructed in all settlements. If a settlement has a build queue from a Count, Duke, or Emperor, then he must build the items on that list in the order listed. However, he does not have to build anything at all if he does not want to, he only has to follow the build queue if he does decide to build something. If a settlement has no build queue for whatever reason, the Chancellor can build whatever he likes.

The Chancellor moves the armies and hands out saved games to be played by the appropriate generals. He can fight battles that his avatar is commanding whenever he wants without pause, but must give other players 48 hours to fight their battles. If a player exceeds the time limit or if the battle is lead by a Captain or a general that is not represented by a player, the battle must be autoresolved. The only exception to the Chancellor’s control over the armies are the Household Armies. For more details, read the Game Rule on Household Armies.

Essentially everything else is free game. If there isn’t a Rule or Edict about it, the Chancellor can do whatever he wants. The Chancellor’s term last for 10 game turns (20 game years), but he can run for re-election if he wishes. In recognition for his contributions, the Chancellor gets a small influence bonus during votes on Edicts and in elections for Chancellor, even after he leaves office.


***************KOTR GAME RULES**************

Game settings

*MT2TW with the 1.3 patch
Kingdoms installs 1.3. If you do not have 1.3, there is a free patch you can download and install:
http://download.sega.com/u/med2/patch/1.3_retail/Medieval%20II_Update3_Compatibility_Patch_EFIGS.rar
You need to install this on top of 1.2.
*Hard campaigns, very hard battles.
*Large unit size.
*Battle timer on. Show CPU Moves, Manage all Settlements
Standard victory conditions (45 provinces, including Rome).

Charter Amendment 6.2: Medifix will no longer be used and in its stead, FactionHeir's trait and ancillary fixes will be implemented. He will also take full responsibility of any issues regarding these files, however unlikely these may be after extensive testing.

The only mod we will use is the trait and ancillary files created by factionheir, available to download at:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/KOTRfix129.zip

Charter Amendment CAE1.1: econ21 will be authorised to give AI factions extra florins; for example, by gifting them a lump sum every 10 turns or so.

To increase the difficulty, the AI will periodically be given money via the consol.

The console command to give 10000 florins to Hungary is:

add_money hungary, 10000

The list of major factions is:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
papal_states
portugal
poland
hungary

The Mongols, Timurids and Aztecs may be included at a later stage.

Probably the best practice is to top up factions with less than 50k, at a rate of perhaps 10k per turn.


OOC CA 14.1: econ21 is authorised to use the console to periodically strengthen AI armies.

Hard restrictions on play: * only two land units (including a general) may travel on each ship.

OOC CA14.4: No AI buildings may be destroyed.


How to play - detailed rules


1. The role of players.

1.1 Each player will roleplay an “elector” of the HRE. They must choose one of four noble houses to belong to. Players are born into a noble House. It is in their blood and cannot be changed. It is determined by which of the four lines on the family tree their avatar falls under (except for the three starter Generals, for whom it is determined by their initial geography). [Note - if avatars spawn disproportionately in certain Houses, Electors of one House may be offered an avatar of another, but then they effectively role-play a new character.]

Charter Amendment 9.2: Add to article 1.1:
In view of exceptional circumstances, the von Mahren family is allowed to join the House of Austria.

1.2 Over time, all players will be assigned an avatar (typically a general) by econ21 to represent them. They should roleplay their traits.

1.3 Players whose avatars lead in a battle will be expected to fight that battle. This will involve downloading the savegame of the battle, playing it and then uploading the resulting savegame. Uploading the post-battle save must be done within 48 hours of the pre-battle savegame being uploaded. If the deadline expires, the battle is autoresolved.

OOC Charter Amendment:
(a) Where there are multiple player controlled generals in a stack, then the player who plays out the battle is determined by who the computer designates is in command.
(b) An exception is that Household Armies (and the Army of Outremer) are always commanded by the designated Commander of said army.
(c) The commanding general may allow another player to fight a battle by mutual consent for OOC reasons.

1.4 Players whose avatars are Counts are entitled to set the taxes and build queue of that settlement. If anything is built in the settlement, it must be the first item on the build queue.
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 1: Amend 1.4 by adding: If no build queue is posted for a settlement, the Chancellor can build what he likes. The Chancellor may upgrade a settlement at any time (ie upgrade the walls regardless of a build queue), unless such an upgrade is forbidden in advance by the governor.

1.5 Each elector will periodically vote to elect a Chancellor (reigning player) of the HRE and on edicts to direct him.

1.6 Players are encouraged to stand for the post of Chancellor.

1.7 Players are encouraged to write in-character stories in the stories thread; to discuss matters of state in the Imperial Diet deliberations thread; to write-up battle reports; to PM each other in character for role-playing etc. [Note: when posting screenshots, we could keep them full size but put them under spoiler tags.]

OOC CA14.3: Players may “rebel” against Imperial authority and fight PvP battles. econ21 and TinCow will umpire what forces and resources rebels can command, and the process for resolving any PvP battles.


2. The role of the Chancellor.

2.1 The Chancellor is much like the player of a solo M2TW campaign - he moves all the units and agents on the map; he decides all the buildings and which units/agents to be trained.

2.2 However, he delegates battles to the player whose general leads the HRE force. And he follows the build queues and tax policies of players with governors.

2.3 He also must obey Imperial edicts and the constitution (these rules) or face political consequences.

2.4 The Chancellor is elected every 10 turns. Incumbent Chancellors can run for re-election if they wish.

2.5 The Chancellor must appoint army commanders. He must maintain a list of who has what post and notify players if they are appointed or dismissed from a role.

2.6 Battles are only fought manually when commanded by a player controlled general who is an army commander. They are autoresolved in all other cases (e.g. captain-led armies).

Charter Amendment E2.1:
(a) If an Edict to impeach the Chancellor is passed with a 2/3 majority, he is removed from office immediately.
(b) After impeachment, a fresh election is held to elect a new Chancellor, although a Kaiser may also exercise his perogative to be Chancellor at that point.
(c) The Chancellor replacing an impeached Chancellor serves out the remainder of the impeached Chancellor's term.
(d) All edicts passed in the Diet that elected the impeached Chancellor remain valid, unless overturned by new Edicts at the Emergency Session that impeached him.
(e) An impeached chancellor is not granted the additional bonus to influence that an ex-chancellor would normally be given.

Charter Amendment 11.5: All cities must have their maximum amount of free upkeep militia within their walls all times, except when the militia is used to fight armies observed to be within the boundaries of their province.

OOC CA 14.2: At the start of each turn, the Chancellor will post an annual report on the last turn, including a save game. The report will list battles that could be fought this turn. Players will have 24 hours to fight these battles or suggest moves for their characters. This system will be trialled for 5 turns and then either abandoned or continued based on majority opinion.

OOC CA 14.8: Chancellors should aim to post annual reports and savegames within 48 hours of the deadline for fighting all battles (offensive or defensive). Chancellors who fail to do this three times may be subject to an OOC impeachment vote.


3. The role of the Imperial Diet

3.1. The Imperial Diet will meet in session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each session lasts 3 days of real time.

3.2. At each session, nobles can propose edicts. These require two seconders to be put to the vote. Edicts are laws that direct what the Chancellor should do.

Charter Ammendment 5.2: Each Elector may only propose ONE edict or charter ammendments per Diet. In addition, Dukes may propose one personal Edict per Diet session, but also control three additional House Edict proposals per Diet session. These proposals are no different than any other Edicts, but they must have the pre-secured backing of at least two seconders from inside the Duke’s House. In the case where there are only 1 or 2 electors in total in a Duke's House, a House edict may still be put forward to the diet requiring only the number of possible seconding electors in the House as seconders.

3.3. Any declaration of war must be authorised by an Imperial edict. The Chancellor or any Duke is empowered to declare war on a non-allied army entering its lands.

Charter Amendment 10.2:
(a) No settlement will be captured without an Edict authorising its acquisition in advance.
(b) Captured settlements will be abandoned or given away unless, at the next Diet session, a Charter Amendment incorporates them formally as part of the Reich.
(c) The 33 existing provinces of the Reich are exempt from (a) and (b).
(d) This amendment overrides the constitutional right of Household Armies to conquer one neighbouring province.

Provinces subsequently incorporated into the Reich:


Charter Amendment 12.1: The province of Bran is to be incorporated formally into the Holy Roman Empire.

Charter Amendment 12.8: Ajaccio and Cagliari are to be incorporated into the Reich. The Chancellor is directed to trade Cagliari to any foe if it can bring about a peace between our nations.

Charter Amendment 14.1: Antwerp is formally incorporated into the Reich.


*3.4. The rules of the game can be changed by a Noble Charter Amendments (2/3 majority required) except those marked with a *.

3.5. Tied edicts fail. If contradictory edicts are passed, the one with the most votes takes priority.

3.6. Edicts can only last for 10 turns.

3.7. Every 10 turns, or on the death or impeachment of the Chancellor, there is an election for the post of Chancellor. Ties lead to a fresh ballot. A second tie is decided by seniority (avatar age). Voting is open for 2 days.

*3.8. The Chancellor can be impeached and removed from office by a 2/3 majority of the Imperial Diet.

3.9. The Imperial Diet is presided over by the character controlling the Emperor. His rulings are final. The Prince can preside in the absence of the Emperor. The Emperor can call an emergency session of the Imperial Diet - freeze the game - at will.
Charter Amendment 8.2: In addition to the Kaiser, an Emergency Session of the Diet may be called by the Prinz, or if three of the four House leaders (Dukes or Stewards) agree to do so.

3.10 Influential players get bonus votes (max +6 bonus)

Appointed Influence (Max 4 points):
Duke: +3
King: +2
Count: +1
Chancellor, ex-Chancellor, or Prince: +1

Stat Influence (Max 2 points):
15 or more total stat points: +1 (I thought about a lower number, but all avatars are given a base 3 piety and base 5 loyalty, which means those points are freebies. So, 15 is only 7 from actual traits, plus the 8 piety and loyalty freebies)
6 or more ranks in one stat: +1 (In the unlikely scenario where a character gets 6 or more in 2 stats without having 15 total, they get this +1 twice)

The player who is Emperor gets bonus votes differently, being equal to his authority.

Charter Amendment 6.7: Any decision that would lead to the excommunication of the Reich has to be authorized by a Diet vote, requiring a 2/3 majority. In the event of a conflict, this Amendment supercedes Rule 3.3 and Charter Amendment 5.1.


4. The role of the four houses - Dukes and Counts

4.1 There will be four houses representing the four main branches of the family tree: Franconia (north), Swabia (west), Austria (east) or Bavaria (south). At the start of the game, Prince Henry is Duke of Swabia and Leopold is Duke of Austria. The Dukes of Franconia and Bavaria have not yet been spawned (they will be the two males who take positions under the Emperor in the family tree).

4.2 Bavaria and Franconia have no Duke yet, so there are Stewards to act in their place until them. Until there is a Duke, they receive the +2 influence of a Duke.

Charter Amendment 3.1: Stewards may bestow the rank of Count on nobles of their House. This Amendment does not give Stewards any other Ducal power, it does not give Stewards additional Influence, nor does it allow Stewards to be Counts themselves.

The Stewards themselves are not Counts. Like Otto in Innsbruck, they are just soldiers, self-made men of lesser station [think Denethor in Lord of the Rings]. They could be rewarded by being made a Count by their Duke when he spawns, though. And they could marry into the Royal line, potentially becoming the Duke themselves.

4.3 The Emperor controls the initial allocation of settlements (e.g. upon conquest). At the start of the game, we have:

Frankfurt - capital of Franconia, home of the Duke (TBC)
Stafen - capital of Swabia, home of the Duke (Prince Henry)
Nuremburg - capital of Bavaria, home of the Duke (TBC)
Innsbruck - second city of Bavaria
Vienna - capital of Austria, home of the Duke (Leopold)
Bologna - is not assigned to any house

4.4 Dukes can then grant a settlement to a player, making him Count of that settlement. The settlements remain nominally within the relevant Duchy. There are no Counts at the start of the game. Capitals of a House need no Counts and cannot be given to them - they belong to the Duke (or his Steward). The Emperor could allocate Bologna to a House at any time, but after that, it will permanently belong to that House. There is an expectation that Franconia will extend north, Swabia west, Bavaria south and Austria east but this should not be followed too rigidly - e.g. the Emperor does not have to give Bologna to Bavaria.

[Note: It is expected that settlements will not be gifted lightly by the Emperor and by Dukes/Stewards - they should be regarded as precious rewards. There is no particular value to settlements in themselves, however. Avatars will be assigned according to the family tree, so more settlements does not mean more family members in a House - nor does it raise influence (beyond the one-off +1 for being a Count). A player cannot be the Count of more than one settlement. Dukes can have more than one settlement not dispersed to counts (and given the ratio of settlements to generals in a game, this is inevitable), but this provides no particular benefits.]

4.5: Counts are governors of their settlements. Dukes govern settlements that are allocated to their Houses but not to a Count. The Emperor governs settlements that are not allocated to any House.

4.6 Counts who are not the natural sons of a Duke (e.g. adoptees and sons in law) may be lose their titles at the whim of the Duke. They are referred to as bonded Counts and are expected to act according to the wishes of their Duke. Natural sons of a Duke may not lose their settlements - they are referred to as freehold Counts.

4.7 Dukes and Counts should name a successor, who will take over their titles and settlements when they die. If no successor is named, the oldest natural son inherits, (if none, oldest adopted son; if none again, then the oldest son-in-law).
Charter Amendment 8.1:
Clause 2: Amend 4.7 by adding: If a Duke resigns, the Kaiser appoints a successor.

4.8 Dukes are expected to guide their families for the good for their Duchies. Members of a house do not have to follow their Dukes in terms of politics. However, the Duke can make players a Count by giving them a settlement (granting them +1 influence). Only the Duke of your House (not another Duke) can make you a Count. Houses will not be the only division in the Diet - chivalry, piety, strategy and other factors may also divide players.

Charter Amendment 6.3: Dukes may bestow the title of Count on Electors without avatars.

OOC CA14.6: The lord of a settlement (Count, Duke, King or Kaiser) can veto any units in their settlement being trained for a particular Elector or purpose. They must inform the Chancellor of this veto in advance.


OOC CA14.7: Each Count or higher will have a feudal levy. These will be allocated by econ21 at each Diet and will consist of four or more units commensurate with the status and service of the player’s avatar. (Typically, a Count would have 1 mounted sergeant, 1 peasant archer or peasant crossbow, 1 sergeant spearmen and EITHER one DFK OR one feudal knight.)

Some illustrative notes on the feudal levy (these are not part of the CA and are subject to change):



If CA14.7 passes, at the next Diet, I will allocate feudal levies to players who are lords of a settlement. They will be commensurate with the lord's age and experience. Players will have to look after them for 10 turns (the Chancellor may retrain them) – then at the subsequent Diets, there will be scope to upgrade levies or replace existing ones.

For players who want it, I will implement a points based system. For the others, the levy can be decided informally. I will balance informal allocations to be about equal to what would arise with a points based system.

Administratively, what I will do is that – at the start of each Diet – reorder stacks so that the existing levies are top units in each player’s stack. At the end of each Diet, I will change these levies to reflect any upgrades or replacements. In the interval, players should use the Chancellor and Governors' orders thread to post any instructions about upgrading their levies - either informal requests or choices based on the points system. If players give no instructions, I will use my own judgement and the points system to adjust the levies.

Upgrade paths (costs)

3^ANY |ONE MAX|TWO MAX|EITHER|OR
3^Spear|Cavalry (Non-knightly)|Missile|Foot knight|Knight
7^Peasant (1)|Peasant (1)|Peasant (1)|Peasant (1)|Peasant (1)
7^Town militia (2)|Town militia (2)|Peasant Archer (2)|Town militia (2)|Town militia (2)
7^Spear militia (3)|Spear militia (3)|Peasant Crossbow (3)|Spear militia (3)|Spear militia (3)
7^Spear Sergeant (4)|Spear Sergeant (4)|Pavise Crossbow (6)|Spear Sergeant (4)|Spear Sergeant (4)
7^Armoured Sergeant (5)|Armoured Sergeant (5)|Handgunner (7)|Armoured Sergeant (5)|Armoured Sergeant (5)
7^|Merchant Cavalry (7)|Arquebusier (8)|DFK (9)|Merchant Cavalry (7)
7^|Mounted Sergeant (9)||DIK (10)|Mounted Sergeant (9)
7^|Mounted Crossbow (11)||DGK (11)|Mailed knight (11)
7^|Reiters (12)|||Feudal Knight (12)
7^||||Imperial Knight (13)
7^||||Gothic Knight (14)

Note: All lords have FOUR units. High lords have one additional knight class units; the Kaiser has two additional knight class units.

Explanatory notes

In order to be eligible for a feudal levy, you must be lord of a settlement.
Counts and Dukes are lords of the settlements they govern. The Prinz and Kaiser are always lords.

If you cease being a lord, your levy is disbanded at the next Diet. (This represents the loss of the social and economic basis of your levy).

Lords are entitled to four units in a feudal levy. High lords (Dukes, King of Outremer, Prinz) are entitled to five; the Kaiser to six.

When players first become lords, they start off with a feudal levy of four peasants. Every Diet, a lord is given 10 points they may “spend” those points to upgrade their units (high lords are given 13 points; the Kaiser 15). The cost of the upgrade is the difference in the cost of the two units. Armor or weapon upgrades cost one point per upgrade per unit.

Steps on upgrade paths may be skipped if points allow (so a Feudal knight could be upgraded straight to Gothic). But units may only be upgraded to a unit on the same path. (e.g. an archer cannot be upgraded to a knight.)

Units can be retrained at no extra cost: sacrifice will be rewarded.
But lost units are replaced by peasants - look after your men.



5 The role of the Emperor and Prince

5.1 The Emperor presides over the Imperial Diet as in 3.9. He is the "chairman" of the HRE, as opposed to the Chancellor who is the "chief executive". He will keep order in the Diet and try to make things run smoothly.

5.2 Once in his reign, the Emperor may automatically assume the post of Chancellor. The Emperor must declare he is exercising that right at a Diet; he will then be appointed Chancellor with no election. This right can only be invoked once, but the Emperor may also compete in normal Chancellorship elections at other Diets.

5.3 The Emperor can allocate settlements to one of the Four Houses.

5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes.
Charter Amendment 11.7: The section of the Charter which currently reads "5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes" will be changed to the following: 5.4 The Emperor adjudicates on rules disputes. However, if a rules dispute directly involves the Emperor, the four Dukes of the Realm (or their appointed deputies) will gather to assist the Emperor in clarifying the dispute. A simple vote among the Dukes would decide the dispute, with the Emperor having the tie-breaking vote.

5.5 The Prince succeeds the Emperor and can deputise in his absence.

Charter Amendment 11.2:The Prince is appointed by the Emperor upon his ascension to the throne. Should a Prince die a new heir has to be appointed immediately.[/i]

Charter Amendment 11.1: Whenever a large dispute arises over the legitamacy of one's succesion to a position of high power (Kaiser, King of Outremer, or Dukedom), a council shall be set forth to discuss the events and vote on who shal succede. Should the position of Kaiser be questioned, the four Dukes and the King of Outremer shall decide who is to become Kaiser. Should a Dukedom or the King of Outremer be under dispute, those not directly involved in the dispute shall be part of the council. In order for the council to be formed, at least one quarter of the voting power in the Reich is needed to for the council to be formed. Regarding the dukes, half of the voting period within the house is needed as the same with the King of Outremer which requires half of the crusader's votes.

5.6 Emperors do not belong to factions - if crowned, they leave their House and - if Duke - are replaced by their chosen successor. They are expected to act for the good of the Empire and be impartial, above petty regional politics.

5.7 The Emperor decides which player-controlled avatar, if any, a Princess should marry.

OOC CA 14.9: No Elector may recruit or command Dismounted Imperial Knights, Imperial Knights, or Gothic Knights without the Kaiser's approval.


6. Armies and Battles

Rules 6.1, 6.2, and 6.3 have been removed.

6.4 For field armies of seven or more units (including the general), the Chancellor must appoint an “army commander”. The army commander must be a “knight”. Army commanders are appointed for the duration of the Imperial Diet session (10 turn intervals). The post is expected to be rotating. Army commanders can decide what to do with prisoners after battle. They can be dismissed by Chancellors, but must be informed of this.

6.5 Avatars who take part in battles may be promoted to “knights” by the army commander. Typically, this will involve the avatar’s bodyguard fighting honourably in a battle. The Emperor, Prince and four Dukes begin the game knighted.

6.6 The title of Field Marshall shall be given to the commanders of the Household Armies for the duration of their command.
Charter Amendment 4.1: Any inquisitor in Imperial lands should be hunted down by our men. When cornered with nowhere to run, they should be visited and discretely removed.

Charter Amendment 5.1: Each Duchy shall have a Household Army with which to defend its territories. The Household Army will be governed by the following clauses:

1) The Household Army may not be removed from the House’s provinces without the permission of the Duke.
2) The Duke will determine where the Household Army is to be garrisoned. This location can be changed at any time, so long as the Duke informs the Chancellor of the move. The Chancellor will not remove the Household Army from the garrison without the Duke’s permission, except as required to fulfill Clause 4.
3) The Duke will determine who commands the Household Army.
4) At the beginning of each Diet session the Duke may assign general orders to the Household Army, which are to be carried out by the Chancellor. Between Diet sessions, any additional orders submitted by Dukes are to be implemented only at the Chancellor's discretion. The Duke may select one of the following Orders: (1) attack any rebel force in House territory, (2) attack any hostile force in House territory, including other factions, (3) attack any foreign or rebel army in House territory, including neutral (but not allied or crusading) factions, (4) temporary assignment to another House, (5) assignment to offensive duties. If Order (4) is chosen, the Duke may determine the time limit of the temporary assignment and the commanding general, but all other decisions are made by the Duke of the receiving house. When the time limit expires, the Household Army must be immediately returned to House lands, no matter what other circumstances occur, unless the Duke agrees otherwise. If Order (5) is chosen, the Duke may specify an enemy settlement or army as the objective and the commanding general. The settlement or army must be in a province that borders the House and the Reich must already be at war with the target. All other decisions are made by the Chancellor. The Duke may recall the Household Army from offensive duties at any time and for any reason.
5) The Household Army will consist of a minimum of 3 infantry regiments, 2 ranged regiments, and 1 cavalry regiment. The Household Army will ideally consist of 4 infantry regiments, 3 ranged regiments, and 2 cavalry regiments. For the purposes of this rule, Generals’ bodyguard units do not count as cavalry regiments. All regiments must be professional soldiers, not militia.
6) If a Household Army falls below the minimum strength level, Imperial military recruitment must be allocated to restoring the Household Army to minimum strength before forces can be sent elsewhere.
7) The Chancellor will attempt to maintain the Household Armies at full strength, with the highest quality regiments available.
8) In emergencies, the Chancellor may detach any units in excess of the minimum strength level for use elsewhere. The Chancellor may not reduce a Household Army below the minimum strength level without the permission of the Duke.
9) If the Imperial Treasury cannot support all Household Armies at minimum strength, the Chancellor must consult with the Dukes and receive their permission to reduce the Household Armies in such a way as to eliminate the deficit.
10) The Imperial Diet may temporarily remove any or all of these rules by a simple majority vote. The temporary period will last no longer than 10 turns.

Charter Amendment 12.6: (1) Each House will have TWO standing Household Armies. They will operate according to CA5.1 in all respects, but have separate commanders appointed by the Duke.
(2) Outremer will have two standing armies. They will operate in accordance with CA9.1, but have separate commanders appointed by the King.
(3) The Kaiser and Prinz will each command standing Imperial armies, of the guideline size given in CA5.1. The Kaiser and Prinz can each give orders for their army during full Diet sessions. They are expected to personally command their own armies but can nominate a replacement commander at any time if they are too busy attending to civil matters. The Chancellor and the Kaiser/Prinz are expected to liase closely over the use of the deployment of the Kaiser/Prinz's army.


7. Crusades and missions.

7.1 The Chancellor must endeavour to follow missions from the Pope and Council of Nobles, unless exempted by the Diet. Missions from guilds and foreign powers are optional.

7.2 Crusades must be authorised by the Diet, unless announced by another faction.

7.3 When a crusade is called, the Chancellor must ask all generals if they wish to join. He must include at least three volunteers who reply within 48 hours. If there are more than three, he must pick the three most pious. However, he can decline a volunteer if that would usurp his pick of army commander. If the AI calls a crusade, the Chancellor can choose not to follow it, even if generals wish to join - but he must still notify them immediately of the call and get their view on whether they would like to join (were he to follow the call).
Charter Amendment 14.2: A new Charter for Outremer is to be adopted, what is proposed below will completely replace all previous legislation relating to the Kingdom (Changes are in bold).

The Revised Charter of the Kingdom of Outremer
1. The Kingdom of Outremer will consist of Antioch, Acre and Adana as its core territories, they cannot be given or bartered away. If they are lost, they must be reclaimed as quickly as possible. The Kingdom may also include up to three more territories, with preference given to Aleppo, Damascus and Edessa. However, no conquest is allowed of any territories belonging to an ally.

2. The Kingdom of Outremer is an integral part of the Reich. It is not a fifth House.

3. The function of the Kingdom is mainly defensive: to safeguard Jerusalem and protect the gateway to Christendom. However, conquest is permitted against heathens and schismatics as long as it does not endanger the defense of Jerusalem. If a Pope assumes power who excommunicates the Reich, Jerusalem may be taken, if needed, as part of his removal, but it must be immediately donated back to the Church upon reconciliation.

4. The Kingdom will be overseen by a Viceroy of Outremer, who will be selected by the Emperor from among the current Crusaders. A Viceroy is appointed by the Emperor at each regular Diet Session. Viceroys may be reappointed. The Viceroy will renounce all loyalties to his House for the duration of his appointment. The Viceroy of Outremer is permitted to resign, if the Emperor is willing to accept the resignation, upon which a new Viceroy is appointed by the Emperor. If the Viceroy of Outremer is deemed incapable of his assignment, he may be impeached by the Emperor and two Dukes, by the Prince and three Dukes, or by the agreement of all four Dukes. Upon removal, the Emperor will appoint a new Viceroy.

5. The Viceroy will command an Army, equivalent to a Household Army with the Viceroy assuming the role of “Duke”. If the Kingdom is larger than or equal to three territories, a second such Army will be placed at his disposal. He may delegate the day to day command of the Army or Armies to other Generals.

6. Outremer’s provinces will be governed by Crusader Counts, except for the designated capital, which is the personal domain of the Viceroy. The Crusader Counts are appointed by the Viceroy and serve at his discretion. They will gain +1 influence, but only if they are not already a Count in their Duchy, and only for the duration of their appointment. The cap of 6 influence for all but the Emperor remains. If any County is left unassigned, the Viceroy will set the build queue for it.

7. Both the Viceroy and the Crusading Counts must be physically located outside Europe for the duration of their appointments.

8. All four Houses of the Reich have a stake in the Kingdom. While the loss of many of the original Outremer Counties currently negates apportionment by House, assignment of Counties will ensure that each Duchy is represented by a Crusader Count if one is present. All efforts will be made to assign a Swabian to Acre and a Bavarian to Adana. Once there are two newly acquired territories, they will be governed by representatives of Franconia and Austria. While historical precedents will be respected, priority will be given to Crusaders who are in Outremer.

9. The Viceroy of Outremer is allowed to propose two pieces of legislation per Diet Session related to Outremer. Prior to being tabled in the Diet, these must be seconded by two Crusaders, or if there is less than two Crusaders, one will suffice.

OOC: The Viceroy will have +2 influence as presently given to the King. All references in the Reich's Charter to the King of Outremer are to be changed to the Viceroy of Outremer.


8. Historical armies

Only historical armies can fight battles (ahistorical stacks can be used for transport).

No more than half an army can be mercenary. Crusader mercenaries (crusader sergeants, crusader knights, pilgrims, fanatics) can count as natives.

Revised maxima for each unit type by number of units in stack

3^Type|1-5|6-10|11-15|16+
7^Generals|2|2|2|2
7^Knights|2|4|6|8
7^Cavalry|2|4|6|8
7^Missile inf|2|3|4|6
7^Elite inf|2|3|4|6
7^Other foot|Any|Any|Any|Any
7^Artillery|1|2|3|4


Crusades are exempt from restrictions on the number of generals.

Unit type definitions:
- Knights: Dismtd Feudal knights; Dismtd Imperial knights; Dismtd Gothic knights; Mailed knights; Feudal knights; Imperial knights; Teutonic knights; General’s bodyguard; Gothic knights; plus any mercenary knights or equivalent heavy cavalry.
- Cavalry: Any mounted knights plus non-knightly cavalry (Mounted crossbowmen ; Reiters; Merchant cavalry; Mounted sergeants, Turcomans etc)
-Foot missiles: Peasant archers; Peasant crossbowmen; Crossbow militia; Pavisse crossbowmen; Arquebusiers; Handgunners etc
-Elite infantry: Zweihander; Forlorn Hope; Landsknechts; dismounted knights and equivalent mercs - e.g. Galllowglass
-Other foot: Peasants; Town militia; Halberd militia; Spear militia; Sergeant spearmen; Armoured spearmen; Crusader sergeants; Pike militia

Here's the old german titles of nobility and our equivalents:

Political
Elector = Kurfurst
Count = Graf
Duke = Herzog
Prince = Prinz
Emperor = Kaiser

Military
Knight = Ritter
Field Marshal = Generalfeldmarshal

econ21
12-20-2007, 02:04
New Chancellor, new OOC thread!

FactionHeir
12-20-2007, 13:16
Interestingly enough, if Zim and deguerra had not crossed party lines, edict 14.5 would have failed with only 31 to 32.
Then had PK crossed party lines (as he should have :tongue2:) it would have passed 32 to 31.

deguerra
12-20-2007, 13:20
:idea2: To be fair, we received no formal instructions from our Duke, and in any case, voting for that legislation would have made little sense IC. I do hope it will not worsen intra-Swabian relations, but I decided it was not something Ludwig was willing to do, again especially without formal ducal instructions

FactionHeir
12-20-2007, 13:22
Warluster voting for it was not instruction enough? :inquisitive:
Ohhhh heads will roll!

But yes, could understand in a way why Ludwig wouldn't vote for it, but not really why he would vote against it since he tried to defect during the Staufen battle and via his letters and all.

On the other hand, Ludwig won't have to worry about the repercussions when the French breach the gates. It will be a tough battle to win.

Ramses II CP
12-20-2007, 14:03
Deguerra won't have any trouble with those Frenchies with the garrison he has. Pikes are much more useful in a city than in the field IMHO, besides if he doesn't want to let them punch the gates then they won't be able to. :2thumbsup: I just wish I could get Fritz into Hamburg before the Danes go after it. I think I could hold both those stacks unless artillery got added to the general led one.

:egypt:

TinCow
12-20-2007, 15:27
I think this is the first Diet session in a long time where more Edicts have passed than CAs.

Privateerkev
12-20-2007, 15:44
Then had PK crossed party lines (as he should have :tongue2:) it would have passed 32 to 31.

PK is no longer rp'ing a character that would wish to see Dassel and Hummel in the pillory. PK is rp'ing a completely new character. And PK believes in voting for IC legislation for IC reasons. :tongue2:

FactionHeir
12-20-2007, 15:59
PK should have voted for because Ignoramus did and because PK is such a good Christian and might be influenced by PK's Alfgarda. :grin2:

Privateerkev
12-20-2007, 16:09
PK should have voted for because Ignoramus did and because PK is such a good Christian and might be influenced by PK's Alfgarda. :grin2:

A.) Alfgarda is quite dissillusioned with politics and has retired.

B.) Even if she hadn't, there is no way von Essen would have had any contact with her.

C.) I have completely dropped my old character and am busy taking on a new one.

D.) To be fair to everyone else, I should only be playing one character at a time.

E.) Regardless, it would be too much work to keep track of multiple character's agendas. I'm lucky I can keep track of one... ^_^

The reasons von Essen voted against it were simple. He was young when those events happened. While he thinks the Swabian Civil War and War of Reformation were destructive, he does not think any participant should be condemned in the afterlife by him. Dieter is religious enough to let God judge those two individuals. Plus, his Duke did not seem too keen on that edict...

OverKnight
12-20-2007, 16:13
Sorry to interrupt the discussion about the politics of exhumation and the liberties allowed within a quasi-Feudal system, but I've put up a new thread for Outremer.

The old one was nearing 20 pages, and I wanted to put up a new title page without going through econ every time I wanted to make a change.

I hope TC will still make the old thread available through the library.

FactionHeir
12-20-2007, 16:14
Notices Jan turn in his grave :clown:

Privateerkev
12-20-2007, 16:24
Notices Jan turn in his grave :clown:

I treated Jan quite well throughout the years. He will just have to find it in his heart to forgive me. Plus, unlike many have IC, I am willing to let him rest in peace. :laugh4:

Plus, your making the assumption that Jan would want Dassel and Hummel in the pillory. I am not convinced he would. Remember, Jan has a family member in the pillory. (brother-in-law) So, he knows the stain of dishonor it brings. That, and I think Jan would have been willing to let the matter drop and move on with life. He'd be happy that Dassel and Hummel were dead and could never hurt anyone again. That would be enough for him.

Jan wasn't very vindictive. Except to... *lists a long string of character names that pretty much includes almost every avatar in KotR*

:clown:

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 16:40
Ok chaps lets get this show on the road.

As I mentioned in the OOC thread I'm going to let all the avatar moves and battles go first before I do the Chancellor details.

Let me first take a look and post up the recommended battles as we have seen before then you guy's can take the first moves and start handing around the save and fight.

Please note...I don't want anyone moving anyone else's armies or garrisons or any other character without letting me know.


As the Chancellor I don't want to be held responsible for something that I didn't do...therefore let me know so I can make a note and "we" can agree with other generals on giving the ok or not.

This can also include avatars not fighting but who want to specifically place their army somewhere.

So give me a little while and I'll post up the save and the first series of battles.

TinCow
12-20-2007, 17:04
As an early Christmas present for you all, I give you a sneak preview of the December 2007 Gahzette summary of KOTR. Enjoy.


Twas the Year 1340

Twas the year 1340, when all through the Diet
Not an Elector was stirring, the chamber was quiet.
The legislation was written on parchment with care,
Their proposers hoping for passage with prayer.

The people of Bruges were holding the walls,
But there were no relief armies to answer their calls.
And Matthias in his Crown, and Crusader Salzgitter,
Remained on the defensive, for which they were bitter.

When out in the Tavern there arose such a clatter,
The Electors all gathered to see what was the matter.
Accusations and letters flew like a flash,
All drawn forth from Duke Steffen’s cache.

The Byzantines held their line on the Po,
While Kaiser and Duke agreed quid pro quo.
When, what to the Reich’s surprise should appear,
But Arnold, the Duke, drinking a beer.

With a berserker named Grom and a Knight of the Dread,
The chivalrous knew with care they must tread.
Only Fritz of Castile, the Franconian, dared,
To challenge for Chancellor, the rest were too scared.

“Now Lothar! Now Athalwolf! Now Elberhard and Peter!
On, Ludwig! On, Karl! On Tancred and Dieter!
In defense of the Reich! Come down from your walls!
Let’s push back our foes! Supremacy calls!”

As Danes threatened Hamburg, the city, with siege,
Far away, in Palermo, was stranded its liege.
So, north, did Fritz and Peter agree
That their forces should march, immediately.

And yet, from the east, the Franconians knew,
The Poles would assault at Magdeburg too.
As the Swabians recovered from rebellion internal,
Marched the French armies, their numbers infernal.

Ehrhart was dressed in mail head to toe,
But his army was lost, they were food for the crow.
Few but the Kaiser had regiments to spare,
Imperials, it seemed, liked a man who could swear.

His spit was like venom, his acts without shame,
Yet by some act of God, ‘twas Champion his name.
To an English princess, married was he,
Though most believed her to be a banshee.

Of chivalry, command, and piety he had much,
But a lack of authority, for him was a crutch.
He prayed every night, but deep faith and piety,
Would not be enough against a Secret Society.

Back in the Diet, the Electors began casting their votes,
For he who they believed spewed forth the best quotes.
As the results trickled in, it became clear to old Fritz,
That fifty percent was a mark he would miss.

A speech of concession he gave soon enough,
Giving Arnold twenty years in a job that was tough.
Due to changes galore that the players had made,
To the rules of the game of KOTR they played.

And throughout it all, there was one man who,
Was happier than any that he had nothing to do.
TinCow did exclaim, as the Cataclysm ended,
“Better your wife than mine who ends up offended!”

Privateerkev
12-20-2007, 17:12
As an early Christmas present for you all, I give you a sneak preview of the December 2007 Gahzette summary of KOTR. Enjoy.

Nice work! :2thumbsup:

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 17:15
Fantastic TC!!! :2thumbsup:

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 17:25
OOC: Here is the save. As per the rule you now have 24 hours, if we can do all the battles but there are still some moves to be made then I'll make then like previous Chancellors have done:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1340-1c.zip

IC: (This is in character and will give you an idea how things are going to go for the duration :2thumbsup: )

Count Karolinger, Kaiser:

The Kaiser has made his recommendation privately, it's up to the two of you to work out the details. Karolinger, keep in mind those £$%$ing boats you are on cost a fortune and they will be sunk by me personally when I pass by there back to Ragusa this year. Get off them and get stuck into those £$%ing Purple panted pussies. I'd prefer to see reams of dead as I go by there later this year, that means all three armies should be crushed...you've got the men a the best general in the Reich so start the recapture of Italy now.

Duke Lothar:

Milan is besieged by the pox ridden scum from the east. Place your forces where they can be best used for assisting the defense

Viceroy Matthias, Sir Andreas von Salzgitter

The Viceroy has sent me his specific orders, the situation in Outremer is ridiculous. Prepare your defenses as you see fit because all hell will be breaking loose in the near future

Prinz Peter, Count Fritz, Sir Tancred Sir Dieter Bresch

It's a veritable "£$%"ing Franconian bowling club around Magdeburg. Sort yourselves out, lift the siege, then let me know when you've got your next bloody card night up there!!

Ludwig von Bohmen

You're in deep steaming loads of shiet son!! I'd advise sitting behind those walls and praying for a miricle, and taking the opportunity to order some English Breakfast tea from just across the channel. If on the other hand you're feeling lucky, why not sally out and go down in a blaze of glory!!??

Lord Becker, Lorenz

You might want to consult on what to do up there in Prague. The Poles are heading in. Reorganise and/or reposition for best defense and then let me know when you've finished fluffing around.

Ruppel, von Salza

You've both essentially got £$% all to do, so get yourselves inside Staufen so that when I magically wave my wand and money starts appearing from out of my arse, I can begin to refit and rearm your sorry selves!!

The rest of you...take a seat and I'll be with you in a minute...and if the letters keep flooding in like they are I might have to unilaterally make someone my secretary and have her/him hold all my mail!!

OOC: Econ this is going to get pretty damn funny over the course of time...having it in the OOC thread seems a little strange...can we do something more IC'ly?

Also...please post up a little report of what you did so I can check what's going on. This also ensures no one has done any fiddling :-)

econ21
12-20-2007, 17:43
OOC: Econ this is going to get pretty damn funny over the course of time...having it in the OOC thread seems a little strange...can we do something more IC'ly?

I was thinking the Chancellor and Governor Reports thread might be the best for this. We could rename it "Orders and Reports thread" or something.

Ramses II CP
12-20-2007, 17:51
I believe Dieter may want to let that siege run it's course, at least that was his last expressed opinion. I do think Peter could break it up with his heavy cavalry but losses would be steep and with no sign of significant Polish reinforcements we may just let this one go. Fritz has no remaining infantry of substance so my losses would be pretty ugly too I suspect.

If we combined forces it would be easier, but it might mean leaving an avatar under AI control against a 3x gold stack. I doubt anyone wants to do that (Fritz is available for it if Peter or Dieter wants a shot though).

edit: Awesome poem, very entertaining. I'm rather surprised no one has stepped up to take a shot at poor Fritz for getting blown out. Where did Hapsburg go? Oh, yeah, Antwerp...

:egypt:

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 18:07
I was thinking the Chancellor and Governor Reports thread might be the best for this. We could rename it "Orders and Reports thread" or something.

Hi Econ, should I re-post it there or start for the first time in 1342?

Ramses,

That's fine, these are not orders but options. Ludwigs for example is a classic IC Arnold move...he can shove two fingers up and tell me he's sitting tights. If there three of you are fine then I'll move the armies based on Gibbo's HA orders and leave Dieter in there for the AI to attack.

FactionHeir
12-20-2007, 18:18
Reorganized units around Staufen and Bern as requested.
New save:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1340-2.zip

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 18:20
Reorganized units around Staufen and Bern as requested.
New save:
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1340-2.zip

Your link goes to Atomic gamer.

Ferret
12-20-2007, 18:26
it works for me, and why is Dieter listed as Sir instead of Count? :clown:

edit: oops missed the 'o' in count the first time

Privateerkev
12-20-2007, 18:30
edit: oops missed the 'o' in count the first time

Yes I imagine that would spell a quite different word...

Though I am sure there are those that would call Bresch that as well. ^_^

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 18:32
Working now...ignore my post.

econ21
12-20-2007, 19:07
Hi Econ, should I re-post it there or start for the first time in 1342?

I'd repost it there - start as you mean to go on and all that.

Zim
12-20-2007, 19:17
This kind of came into it for Andreas as well. I was on the edge for a while. Because I included Bruges I wasn't sure if he would be completely contemptuous of the rebels (it was a rebel who saved the town), but he wants to be loyal to his Duke. In the end, I looked at it thinking what a pious, chivalrous person would do. I figured he would balk at people presuming they could judge the dead, and even more so at digging up bodies to place them elsewhere.

It didn't help that the person who said he would propose the Edict (Duke von Salza) did not, and after Ruppel did the Swabians received no directions on the matter. :dizzy2:



The reasons von Essen voted against it were simple. He was young when those events happened. While he thinks the Swabian Civil War and War of Reformation were destructive, he does not think any participant should be condemned in the afterlife by him. Dieter is religious enough to let God judge those two individuals. Plus, his Duke did not seem too keen on that edict...

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 19:22
I'd repost it there - start as you mean to go on and all that.


Right then I'll re post over there. Can everyone now move over there for taking the save and then posting it back up with a short description of what you did.

_Tristan_
12-20-2007, 20:42
AG, would you mind moving Hugo from Nuremberg to Staufen to meet up with his Duke and his army commander (Ruppel) ?

Thanks...

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 20:49
AG, would you mind moving Hugo from Nuremberg to Staufen to meet up with his Duke and his army commander (Ruppel) ?

Thanks...

No problem. I'm about to take the save to do some small things.

I'll include that in my description of what I did.

Please note he can't make it this turn.

Zim
12-20-2007, 21:06
AG, could you belay the "Andreas moves to Acre" order until he tells you what to do battle wise? Just in case he needs the extra unit of heavy cav this turn. :yes:

Edit: Doh! Acre, not Staufen!

TinCow
12-20-2007, 21:42
Er, I just remembered that I never killed off the recruitable generals that were not chosen for avatars. Has someone else done that? It will make a difference to the economy, so it should be done before the turn is ended.

FactionHeir
12-20-2007, 22:11
econ did it already

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 22:32
AG, could you belay the "Andreas moves to Acre" order until he tells you what to do battle wise? Just in case he needs the extra unit of heavy cav this turn. :yes:

Edit: Doh! Acre, not Staufen!

Who is "he"?

Zim
12-20-2007, 22:37
Who is "he"?

Sorry, Ki...er....Viceroy Matthias.

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 22:40
Sorry, Ki...er....Viceroy Matthias.

No problems. I've actually put you and OK in the 24 hour action period.

I'd prefer OK to simply move and resort everything as he see's fit and then make a note in the Chancellor thread. If he hasn't done it in time then he has given me a detailed PM to follow so I should have it perfect.

Zim
12-20-2007, 22:42
Ok. :yes: Ok tends to come on late at night (in EST) so it might be a few hours, but well within the limit. I don't think he'll be forcing a battle anyway, I just wanted to make sure Andreas hadn't used up his move points just in case. :thumbsup:


No problems. I've actually put you and OK in the 24 hour action period.

I'd prefer OK to simply move and resort everything as he see's fit and then make a note in the Chancellor thread. If he hasn't done it in time then he has given me a detailed PM to follow so I should have it perfect.

econ21
12-20-2007, 22:42
I've uploaded a save in the Chancellor's thread. I did a lot less than I hoped to do - may be the cannons slowed me down?

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 22:48
I've uploaded a save in the Chancellor's thread. I did a lot less than I hoped to do - may be the cannons slowed me down?

Yes that could get a little hairy in the AI's turn now...I'd suggest Karolinger puts himself behind you Econ...

Hopefully he comes online to give his thoughts.

edit:

Still, I have to say we are getting a little too used to spanking the "normal" stacks with ridiculously low loses...oh dear...what shall we do.

econ21
12-20-2007, 22:55
Yes that could get a little hairy in the AI's turn now...I'd suggest Karolinger puts himself behind you Econ...

An alternative, more risky option would be for him to use his fleet to sail south and bypass the Byzantine front - landing on the east coast of Italy, so as to head for Rome.

AussieGiant
12-20-2007, 22:59
An alternative, more risky option would be for him to use his fleet to sail south and bypass the Byzantine front - landing on the east coast of Italy, so as to head for Rome.

I'm not sure if that's suicide or steamrolling Econ, either way; "That's just not cricket my good man." :clown:

gibsonsg91921
12-21-2007, 00:37
TC, that's beautiful. Almost makes me feel bad how much Péter despises Lothar.

deguerra
12-21-2007, 00:56
yeh sorry for the lack of comment previously, that poem is genius :D

Stuperman
12-21-2007, 02:32
I'm not sure if that's suicide or steamrolling Econ, either way; "That's just not cricket my good man." :clown:


he'd be in an interesting position, especially after you destroy his boats.

gibsonsg91921
12-21-2007, 03:48
Merry Christmas Vacation!

That's right, my district doesn't have school tomorrow. Jealous?

Man, today was great. Parties in all classes except the last period, AP European History. Dag, yo.

deguerra
12-21-2007, 03:50
and merry christams vacation to you too. personally, im not in school anymore, but my uni-vacation work finishes today as well, so ill consider myself included :D

Cecil XIX
12-21-2007, 03:55
What an appropriate class!

gibsonsg91921
12-21-2007, 04:09
Yeah! We're at Napoleon now though, we didn't cover the Middle Ages much.

GeneralHankerchief
12-21-2007, 04:23
Napoleon already? Jesus, we're only on the Reformation.

And I have a DBQ to write tomorrow in that class. Lovely.

AussieGiant
12-21-2007, 09:45
Thanks OK.

Ramses, it seems your Prinz and Duke wants you to lift the siege. The combination of you, Tancred and Bresch should be enough to do that...if you don't then you better tell Gibbo. :beam:

And Mr Prinz dude, you can't engage either of the Danish armies to your north this turn...plus there are two of them...which one do you want to make a beeline for?

This would be the last planned battle before I would take the save and move onto the next turn gentlemen...if anyone else wants to do something put your hand up soon.

AussieGiant
12-21-2007, 14:43
Alright gentlemen, I'm heading out for the evening and will be back on the PC tomorrow (Saturday) just after lunch GMT +1

At that time I will take the save and finish of the magic I need to pull off. So please have any outstanding moves and offensive actions completed or agreed upon.

Please also get ready for the AI turn because it looks like there will be some action.

It's all about Tempo :2thumbsup:

So have a great Friday night where ever you are and "bis morgen".

Ramses II CP
12-21-2007, 15:08
Yeah, I was planning to give it a shot last night but the save stayed 'out.' Do we have a new save now? I'm going to try to play it a little later today, and then I'm out of town for awhile but I'll have 'net access and my laptop is MTW2 capable.

:egypt:

gibsonsg91921
12-21-2007, 17:05
Uh, just put Prinzy near Hamburg so I can engage them later. I don't care who.

Cecil XIX
12-21-2007, 19:03
Do my eyes deceive me, or does having too many levels of 'CaptorChivalry' now bestow a morale penalty?

FactionHeir
12-21-2007, 19:06
It's been that way since 1.29 actually and has been explained in the OOC thread previously.

Warmaster Horus
12-21-2007, 19:15
I won't be able to take the save; could you move Karolinger close enough to Elberhard to make a difference?

Cecil XIX
12-21-2007, 19:25
It's been that way since 1.29 actually and has been explained in the OOC thread previously.

Seriously? Which OOC thread?

FactionHeir
12-21-2007, 19:28
No idea. One of the many.
I'll summarize what I remember though, which is that the change was made in accordance to MTW principles. Releasing or executing too many times (i.e. getting to higher levels of those traits, lower levels have no effect on morale) means you are knowingly not asking for ransom and depriving your men of their loot, making them somewhat less willing to capture in future.

Cecil XIX
12-21-2007, 19:34
Have any of the dread traits been given a new penalty?

Privateerkev
12-21-2007, 19:36
Do my eyes deceive me, or does having too many levels of 'CaptorChivalry' now bestow a morale penalty?

Yeah, it's been like that for awhile. Luckily, Jan's traits balanced him out. He took a huge hit in army morale with being "the Merciful". But it was balanced by his Courage traits. :2thumbsup:

FactionHeir
12-21-2007, 19:53
Yes, it is for both Dread and Chivalry lines balanced.
The thing about the Chiv side is that you still get a high chiv but it gives overall more morale than it takes. While for dread you inflict a penalty on the enemy that is larger than the one on your own troops.

Cecil XIX
12-21-2007, 20:22
Guess I could have checked that myself, couldn't I? :oops:

Ramses II CP
12-21-2007, 21:19
Okay, I'm way behind right now on RL stuff, so I may not get to this before the time limit as I expect it to be a lengthy battle. If that happens there's no need to wait for me. I'll have net access where we're going, but right now I have no idea if I'm even going to leave tonight or tomorrow morning so I couldn't predict how long it will be.

I'm still hoping to get a block of time later and I'll post if I do, but don't hold things up for me. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

FactionHeir
12-21-2007, 21:22
Don't worry, you still have over 17 or so hours left ~:)

Ramses II CP
12-22-2007, 05:54
I'm still hoping I'll have time to do this tomorrow morning, but it will depend on traffic and travel times. Everyone else is done?

Sorry, it's that time of year. :yes:

:egypt:

econ21
12-22-2007, 11:07
I think AG should be allowed to press end turn when he gets back after lunch today. Ramses battle sounds optional - didn't he not want to fight it in the first place? Presumably, it will keep for 1342.

OverKnight
12-22-2007, 12:14
I've just updated my availability in the Duty thread. I will be away Dec 24 and 25.

I hope we will be able to get the defensive battles for 1340 in before that, as I have a suspicion I'll be fighting one, and it's definitely something I don't want autoresolved. :sweatdrop:

AussieGiant
12-22-2007, 14:39
Hi All,

I'm back and Ramses has asked not to fight the battle of Madgeburg. Therefore I'm going to move him and Gibbo as they have instructed and leave Madgeburg besieged and see what happens.

I'm taking the save in a about an hour from now...I'll do my Chancellor thing then press end turn this afternoon which means the defensive battle will begin straight after that.

AussieGiant
12-22-2007, 15:07
Taking the save, that it fella's.

FactionHeir
12-22-2007, 16:57
Heh quite ambiguous who you are calling an idiot whose extistence needs to be ended in that spoiler AG :grin2:

AussieGiant
12-22-2007, 17:17
Heh quite ambiguous who you are calling an idiot whose extistence needs to be ended in that spoiler AG :grin2:

The Byzantine Captain for the record :beam:

Ramses II CP
12-22-2007, 17:32
I'm in place and the connection here is fine now, so it's probable that I'll be available tonight for any necessary fighting, or tomorrow night, as late as necessary. Shouldn't have to go on reserve or anything, though during the day there's obviously family stuff aplenty. :yes:

:egypt:

AussieGiant
12-22-2007, 17:46
I'm in place and the connection here is fine now, so it's probable that I'll be available tonight for any necessary fighting, or tomorrow night, as late as necessary. Shouldn't have to go on reserve or anything, though during the day there's obviously family stuff aplenty. :yes:

:egypt:

Thanks for the update Ramses...although you don't get any battles this AI turn...

econ21
12-23-2007, 01:47
There are a number of defensive battles to be fought this turn. It would be good if players could pass on the saves in a relay, without waiting for the Chancellor. With defensive battles, there is no need for a middle man.

Warmaster Horus has already fought his battle. Next up is TinCow:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1340-8.zip

After that, we probably have Overknight, Gibson and Cecil in that order. I think Gibson's battle can - and perhaps should - be avoided by retreating. Cecil is not so lucky, although an autoresolve should let the generals escape death.

Please post new saves and short descriptions of results in the Orders thread.

OverKnight
12-23-2007, 03:06
The Byzantines are busy this term. I fear we will find the Emperor is not as forgiving as TinCow was.

I'll keep an eye out for the next save.

AussieGiant
12-23-2007, 09:06
Crap I just went and played the middle man...that's the last time I will this AI turn.

The battles are as Econ outlines...Gibson's is not recommended and the Cecil/PK fight was outlined too them before they agreed to their actions...crazy guy's.

OverKnight
12-23-2007, 09:13
You playing middleman didn't slow it down, TC is asleep no doubt. I just wish the Byzzies attacked me first.

Milan looks like a fine mess, but an interesting battle. A two man garrison! Man, think of their morale.

"Hey Bob, where did everyone else go?"

"Shut up Joe! Just man the gate!"

Should be an interesting race between the relief force and the Greeks, do they breach the gates first, or can Lothar reach the rams and tower before that happens?

AussieGiant
12-23-2007, 10:04
I did even fight it. I checked the WH fight because I was shocked that the uber stack stuck it's nose in where it shouldn't and I wasn't expecting WH to have to fight.

Then I whizzed through the rest of the AI attacks with autoresolve to get a better feel for who is going to fight.

TinCow
12-23-2007, 14:56
Awake-ish (no coffee yet). Taking the save, but must caffeinate myself and otherwise mutate into what passes for a human being first. It'll be done when it's done.

TinCow
12-23-2007, 16:09
Battle fought. Lothar's army came in as reinforcements directly behind the Byzantine army. That meant the closest door to the city was the one they were assaulting, so I couldn't get into the walls before they could. A suicide cavalry charge by my merchants stopped the ram, but the tower still made it and eventually overcame Bob and Joe (the brave bastards). I assaulted the rear of the attack column with everything I had, killed their general, and well over half their army, including almost all their cavalry. However, they massively outnumbered me in infantry and attrition did me in. I held the field, but they took the streets and I had no infantry left to stop them. Milan was taken and exterminated. Lothar's army is no longer battle-worthy.

Battle report will be up today. OverKnight is next.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1340-9.zip

econ21
12-23-2007, 17:12
I wonder if AussieGiant should just handle the two defensive "battles" after Overknight's? IIRC, they are just our bodyguards against enemy armies and don't seem worth holding up the game for.

FactionHeir
12-23-2007, 17:13
Looks like your armies of god are still wreaking some major havoc there, TC. Eager to read your battle report!

How did Lothar's BG fare btw? Manage to charge down some greeks in the streets or the plaza by running around the rim?

[edit]
econ: I suppose if the players agree to a withdraw then AG could arrange that. The problem is when the enemy pursues the withdrawaing force and attacks again. Usually generals don't die in autoresolves unless they are in a reinforcing army, have nowhere to retreat to post battle or already have a heavily depleted BG.

TinCow
12-23-2007, 17:17
I never even got into the streets. I lost on timer due to the square being taken. Only 1 bodyguard survived along with Lothar.

FactionHeir
12-23-2007, 17:20
Ouch, that reminds me of Ruppel's last battle.

I'm glad Lothar survived though.

Privateerkev
12-23-2007, 17:41
econ: I suppose if the players agree to a withdraw then AG could arrange that. The problem is when the enemy pursues the withdrawaing force and attacks again. Usually generals don't die in autoresolves unless they are in a reinforcing army, have nowhere to retreat to post battle or already have a heavily depleted BG.


AG made things very clear to Cecil and I. We knew what we were getting ourselves into. I'm playing a hot-headed 16 year old who is full of "!@#$ and vinegar" and eager to prove himself. There was no way I was letting Dieter sit this one out. :2thumbsup:

FactionHeir
12-23-2007, 17:42
Reminds me of Hans running off to get himself kngihted quickly as Budapest and then chasing after the crusaders to join up with them. Ah yes, good times. :grin:

Privateerkev
12-23-2007, 17:48
Reminds me of Hans running off to get himself kngihted quickly as Budapest and then chasing after the crusaders to join up with them. Ah yes, good times. :grin:

Yeah, it's very much in that vein. It's a fine line between trying to RP your avatar as brave but accidentally making him act "stupid". Of course it's a fine line in real life as well. ^_^

AussieGiant
12-23-2007, 18:37
After OK's battle there is Gibson and the Danish and then Cecil and PK with the Hungarian half stack. When I auto resolved the battle for Gibson and PK they were followed up on and then finally survived and end up in Vienna with Hapsburg.

For both of those battles I don't mind taking specific instructions and finishing off the AI's turn.

Then I can post 1342.

Ramses II CP
12-23-2007, 19:43
Entertaining battle report TC. Looks like the Italian offensive will have to be delayed.

:egypt:

Privateerkev
12-23-2007, 20:02
That was an awesome battle report. Almost makes me want to start up an SP game and fight some battles... :beam:

Ferret
12-23-2007, 20:45
whaddaya mean almost? I would if I didn't have to revise for more blasted exams :(

Privateerkev
12-23-2007, 20:54
whaddaya mean almost?

Playing hotseats makes playing SP games seem dull and boring. Having real humans running all of the factions in a game is absolutely awesome. The AI just sits there and waits for me to pound on it...

I have gotten spoiled by "real" competition... :bow:

Ferret
12-23-2007, 20:57
What about in the Crusades hotseat, all you've done there is backstabbing rather than fighting :P :clown:

Privateerkev
12-23-2007, 21:03
What about in the Crusades hotseat, all you've done there is backstabbing rather than fighting :P :clown:

Actually, I have fought "rebels" quite a bit. As for the backstabbing, I never had an alliance with the PoA. I promised to get the Turks out of the Anatolian Peninsula and I did just that. I never said how I would do it.

To be fair, I had no idea Zim would whomp you so easily. I completely underestimated the power of the Jihad. Ideally, Emperor Manuel wanted to play the Catholics and Muslims off of each other. He does have the "Byzantine Politics" skill... But, my aid accidentally led to the inevitable death of one side relatively early in the game.

Oops... :clown:

TinCow
12-23-2007, 21:03
The most annoying part about that battle is that I am almost almost 100% certain that I could have won if the army had entered at any spot other than that directly behind the Byzantines. I simply had no way of getting into the city from that spot and a straight up field battle was hopeless since I was heavily outnumbered and had no cavalry worth speaking of other than my bodyguard.

Privateerkev
12-23-2007, 21:05
The most annoying part about that battle is that I am almost almost 100% certain that I could have won if the army had entered at any spot other than that one. I simply had no way of getting into the city from that spot and a straight up field battle was hopeless since I was heavily outnumbered and had no cavalry worth speaking of other than my bodyguard.

Looking at that report, it looks like you did the best anyone could do with that very difficult situation. It is definitely one of my favorite reports on here to date. :yes:

OverKnight
12-23-2007, 23:40
After I have some coffee, Bob and Joe will be avenged! :evil:

AussieGiant
12-23-2007, 23:47
I guess that was my fault TC. Placing you where I did lead to that situation. I thought you would enter from the side...I was certainly wrong.

Stuperman
12-24-2007, 00:50
Nice try TC, but yeah given the battlefield you'd lost before you had even started. Although that does some serious damage to the southern front, and the finances, no one can say you played favorites during the cataclysm. was the cite exterminated?

OverKnight
12-24-2007, 00:52
Posted the save and results in the order thread, gibson is up.

Zim
12-24-2007, 00:59
OK, I figured you were a good player, as most of the players here are, but I am in awe of that last victory. :bow: My hope for the future of Outremer has just vastly increased.

OverKnight
12-24-2007, 01:08
In a battle like the last one, terrain is destiny. Most players could have pulled it off.

TC is a better general than I am, but placement determined the last two battles. Plus I only had to defend, he had to relieve.

It also helped that I wiped out their Bombards a turn ago.

Zim
12-24-2007, 01:18
Well, nonetheless it's great news for the...Viceroyalty of Outremer?

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 01:32
I'm surprised at OK's result however I have fought around there and terrain is everything around those mountains.

Now we have some tough one's to go. Gibbo you're up mate...

discretion is the better part of valour...

and that goes for Cecil and PK too.

OverKnight
12-24-2007, 01:32
Outremer is still a Kingdom, the Viceroyalty of Outremer doesn't quite roll of the tongue as gracefully. I wanted to keep Kingdom in the name, because it has historical connotations and sounds cool, but acknowledge with the Viceroy title that it was not an independent territory or an inherited position.

If you want to get technical, Matthias rules Outremer, but in the name of the Kaiser and at his discretion, since he is the titular King. Or at least that's how I see it.

Zim
12-24-2007, 01:35
Kingdom does sound a bit better. :yes:

To the Kingdom of Outremer, then! ~:cheers;

TinCow
12-24-2007, 01:54
Nice try TC, but yeah given the battlefield you'd lost before you had even started. Although that does some serious damage to the southern front, and the finances, no one can say you played favorites during the cataclysm. was the cite exterminated?

Yep. I think they've done that to every city they've captured in Italy. I know for sure they've exterminated Rome, Bologna, Venice and Milan now. I'm not positive about Florence, since I wasn't paying attention when they took it, but I'm pretty sure it got the sword as well. Probably has to do with high populations that are not the same religion.

Another factor in battle difficulty in KOTR is keeping your avatar alive. I am far less reckless with my generals in KOTR than I am in a single player game. It may not look like it because Lothar ended up with just 1 other surviving bodyguard, but I was actually wary about him getting stuck into a bad spot. Once his unit was at half strength, I wanted to keep him out of combat, but had to toss him back into the line in a last ditch attempt to break the Byzantines. I was not happy about doing so. :sweatdrop:

Zim
12-24-2007, 01:56
Just as a warning, Gibson couldn't play his Frozen Crusade battle today (Family visit of some sort) so he may not be able to get to this one. :sweatdrop:

econ21
12-24-2007, 02:42
Gibson is listed as being on reserve duty, so if I were AussieGiant, I would just have him retreat to safety.

The trickier one is Cecil's battle. I think AG should autoresolve it to get the avatars to safety (albeit defeated) but it would be good if Cecil would give an opinion on this.

Cecil XIX
12-24-2007, 03:01
I would retreat, then autoresolve. Should be fine.

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 06:34
You know you could take the save and do the run around to avoid any possible negative traits. It wouldn't be hard to keep the guys alive and bring home a tie, possibly with some pretty good losses for the enemy.

Of course there are risks in that, obvious risks. :shrug:

I haven't always been as careful as I should with Fritz. Maybe it's partly because I don't like who he is, but it's the SP thing too. I use up generals in the SP game, they're just so friggin powerful it's hard to avoid.

:egypt:

OverKnight
12-24-2007, 08:30
New battle report is up.

I included a prelude with the Byz emperor to explain the very aggressive moves made by the Greeks this turn, and why they would scale a mountain to get at Matt.

If this goes against the grain of those who have "spoken" for the royal family before, let me know and I'll edit. I figured whatever shades of gray that originially played out between the Empires have burned away.

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 10:19
So guy's what's the deal?

Is Gibson around or should I retreat him?

As for the Cecil and PK, then I would prefer it if Cecil did the honours.

Cheers
AG

Zim
12-24-2007, 10:23
I guess Gibson put himself on reserve in the Active Duty thread.

Here's what he said regarding not being able to play a battle in our other MP game.


Uhh, my grandparents are over so I won't be able to play. Autoresolve it, please. Sorry for the delay.



So guy's what's the deal?

Is Gibson around or should I retreat him?

As for the Cecil and PK, then I would prefer it if Cecil did the honours.

Cheers
AG

Warmaster Horus
12-24-2007, 11:56
I put it on the Active Duty thread, but I'll say it here too: I'll be absent from this afternoon ('round 5PM GMT+1) until the afternoon of the 27th.

As for battles... Autoresolve'll do.

econ21
12-24-2007, 12:25
So guy's what's the deal?

Is Gibson around or should I retreat him?

Gibson is apparently not around and anyway is formally on reserve duty. Reserve duty means he does not fight his battles and ideally should be kept out of danger because of that. I would just retreat him.


As for the Cecil and PK, then I would prefer it if Cecil did the honours.


Cecil has given his instructions, so you can just move on to 1342.


I would retreat, then autoresolve. Should be fine.

Let's get this (turn of) war over by Christmas!:charge:

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 12:53
Ok then I'm taking 1340-10 and finishing. The report will be up this evening.

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 14:37
Plague certainly is bad. Especially at Staufen.

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 14:50
It's suddenly very tense for me.

You guy's are not affected yet...I can get you out now but it's a plague army we are recruiting now :-(

We have too many troops and not enough cash...but we need all the troops we have in my view.

IC options have to be discussed...

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 15:04
If we have too many troops and not enough cash it sounds like a stunning series of offensives need to be planned, with mercenaries at the spearhead! Can't see the save yet, but I'm determined to save Hamburg. Which stack sieged it? Where'd the third one come from?

Ah well, I'll take a look soon.

:egypt:

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 15:11
I'm going to recommend you combine with Fritz and attack, and we can't hire mercenaries because we don't have money.

The third army came out of Arhus.

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 15:21
You mean with Peter, right? %&$^ I didn't know they had another stack at Arhus. I guess somebody took my IC threat to sack it seriously. :laugh4:

I'm DL'ing the save now to take a look at the situation. Peter and I are quite short on reliable infantry, but if I positioned right I should be able to reach Hamburg. If I could get inside the city I can virtually guarantee I can hold it against anything.

:egypt:

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 15:26
The French at Metz look impossible to beat without decent amounts of heavy cav (and the amount would probably violate the historical army rule, but then that triple gold stack also violates it with 12 or so knight units).

Any chance Elberhard's Imperials could be rerouted and/or teutons be hired at Frankfurt?

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 15:36
Okay, so Hamburg is sieged by the weakest army, the one in front of us is the one we know is 3x gold, and the one behind it (But fortunately not in reinforcement range) is visibly partially 3x silver. If Hamburg is to be relieved Peter and I will have to combine armies in some way and I don't know for sure if I have the movement to even reach the general stack which is in siege.

Also I Peter has said in the past that the Teutonic Knights won't serve under Fritz. We could sit on the bridge and wait for them to attack, but Hamburg might fall in the mean time, or they might get reinforced by the silvers.

Taking my daughter to meet a new family member this morning, but my troops are available to join Peter, including Fritz of course, or I can take some of his into my army and have a go at the Danes later on tonight. Maybe if I bring Peter and the Teutons in the army we can, IC, have Peter 'commanding' them under my general orders?

:egypt:

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 15:47
Bottom line is we have no money so there will be no hiring guy's.

We have what we have and we need to use it or lose it.

I'd probably ask you both (Fritz, Peter) to man the bridge this turn. Hope the Danes attack and you crush them, and then next turn counter punch on Hamburg.

Staufen is a mess now that it's plagued. I'm inclined to move everything out
for plague reasons but then there is no chance in attacking the stack outside Metz...it's just too strong. Given recruiting has stopped then we are at another stand off...which will just kill us.

Lothar is in trouble due to his positioning. Elberhard and Karolinger need to attack now and so does the rest of Austria...

...this game is incredible right now.

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 16:03
I'd say after the battles are fought we can use the ransom to build/train more units.
I suppose if we are desperate, we can also destroy the blacksmith and inn type buildings in cities that aren't likely to supply troops to our frontlines.

Ferret
12-24-2007, 16:10
see what a mess you've all got us into by voting for Arnold, he clearly can't cope :clown:

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 16:48
see what a mess you've all got us into by voting for Arnold, he clearly can't cope :clown:

Let the piling on commence :beam:

Edit:

After TC has done his thing I'm taking the save to inject the AI with cash.

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 17:27
Ok so now I'm confused.

I've never used the console command before...FH has told me what to do but now I have no idea if it is working or not.

FH asked me to: "As for console, you use the key above the tab button or the tilde".

When I press that nothing happens. Isn't there meant to be a command line appear or something?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Is it the button that say: "Welcome to Medieval Shell"?

econ21
12-24-2007, 17:27
Just to state the obvious: players have until 24 hours after the report AG posted to fight any battles and give any other instructions to the Chancellor. After that, AG can use his discretion and make remaining moves.

BTW, what are the implications of the plague at Staufen for the SHA that has been formed there? Are all the units in Staufen - except the BGs? - now "carriers"? If so, will they definitely infect any settlements they enter? It seems that any characters leading them will only have a random chance (how high?) to be infected, is that right? I confess I've never played far on enough to have to worry about the plague.

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 17:29
Depends on your keyboard as I said.

For English ones, use:
~ or `

For Euro ones use ö, ü, #, or the crossed out o.

[edit]
econ:
Pretty much everyone except Ruppel and Salza are infected.
Any town those units enter will become infected too unless already infected (in which case the plgaue will NOT be prolonged either)
Afaik generals travelling with infected units do not get infected. Its been a while I had such a case though.

TinCow
12-24-2007, 17:35
FYI, on cash injections, in my experience, you cannot give more than 40,000 to a faction at any one time. Any amount entered that is over 40,000 results in an addition of just 40,000. In order to give more than 40,000, you have to use the same command multiple times. For instance, to give the French 200,000 florins, you have to enter the following command 5 times:

add_money "France" 40000

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 17:36
Is it the button that say: "Welcome to Medieval Shell"?

the line I have is: add_money faction, x

faction is the name I will copy from the game and x is the amount...the comma should be added in right?

I'm adding 30k to everyone and 50 to Byzantine which would be a 40k and a 10k as TC is saying. Is that ok?

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 17:39
Yes, medieval shell is correct.
Faction as per descr_strat entry with comma at the end.
Note faction names will be lower case.

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 17:40
so first entry is:

add_money england, 30 000

correct?

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 17:41
Without the space between the 0s.
add_money england, 30000

P.S. I sent you a PM so you can check whether the AI is indebted or not and go from there.

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 17:44
Without the space between the 0s.
add_money england, 30000

P.S. I sent you a PM so you can check whether the AI is indebted or not and go from there.

Thanks...and TC, nice work in Milan...you've got Arnold's the size of a rogue rhino!!!

econ21
12-24-2007, 17:45
AG, FYI, the computer recognised names of the major factions - taken from the first post of this thread - are:

england
france
spain
venice
sicily
milan
scotland
byzantium
russia
moors
turks
egypt
denmark
portugal
poland
hungary

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 17:46
Cross portugal too. France killed em during the cataclysm.

econ21
12-24-2007, 17:52
Cross portugal too. France killed em during the cataclysm.

Good point - I will replace them in the list with papal_states as the Pope has a lot of troops but only one settlement.

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 17:56
Ok I'm done and I'm already ahead of you.

I've noted the current living factions and have given them all money.

FH can please check.

The save is 1342-2

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 18:13
Checked save and fixed errors.
It seems france and turkey were some -130000 in their treasury, so that has been remedied to about +30-50k now.
Also fixed byzzies, poles and denmark, which had negative balances.

Ransoms work fine now as a result. So happy hunting.
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1342-3.zip

Btw, it seems that although some soldiers died at Staufen of the plague, moving them out with the generals and ending turn outside did not result in any of them dying, so they don't actually have the plague and are save to move into other cities :grin:


Since I had to end tun to test that, I saw a few other things too, but I won't mention them except for this tiny fun diplomacy tidbit.

France wants to make us their vassal :laugh4:

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 18:15
Thanks FH.

econ21
12-24-2007, 18:16
Checked save and fixed errors.
It seems france and turkey were some -130000 in their treasury, so that has been remedied to about +30-50k now.

For future reference, how did you check the balances? I look at the start of year graphs - did you do something different?

Taking the save.

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 18:19
Yup. I sent a diplomat and checked their status.
For that, I also modded the diplomacy bounds (descr_diplomacy.xml) somewhat to get more precise results on their somewhat exact balances.
That, and basically giving them 40k, reset the diplomat, check, give more, reset, check etc until they got out of bankrupt into well off, rich, or boundless.
Then I made those notes, loaded the savegame (without mods this time) and gave them the appropriate amount of cash. Saved, autoresolved some auto win battles to check if it does indeed work, and it does.

Zim
12-24-2007, 18:57
I think I'm supposed to have a battle this turn, but with no "list o' battles" available yet, I decided to pm AussieGiant about it.

econ21
12-24-2007, 19:17
I've fought the first of my battles but am off to dinner so I will return the save for anyone who wants it:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1342-4a.zip

I will pick up a save later this evening if one is free.

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 19:23
I do not want Hamburg to fall, as Fritz or as OOC (It's a 3k+income city as well), so I'm happy to attack that 3x gold stack and let the chips fall where they may. I should be able to hold the bridge as long as I can withdraw most of my crossbowmen intact. The question is, can I take Peter's heavy cavalry with me? What are my options?

If I put Peter in Fritz's stack then Peter will take command, which would be fine with me, but even if he's on reserve I couldn't fight as him, right?

Sorry, new situation to me, but I very much want to relieve Hamburg! Dieter is fine at Madgeburg, he wanted to wait it out anyway.

:egypt:

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 19:44
I think we decided on anyone inside the stack that is knighted can command the battle if the first commander can't make it.

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 19:53
So I could put Peter in the stack with Fritz, with his heavy cavalry, and attack. I'll put a serious hurt on that stack even if they force me to withdraw.

If I don't have to put Peter in the stack that would be better (He could sit on the bridge, or be available for a follow-up or something), but I don't know the rules surrounding the Teutons either, Peter just said they wouldn't follow Fritz.

:egypt:

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 19:56
That might have been during the cataclysm, but post cataclysm, there is no rule saying Teutons won't follow Fritz.

IMO yes you can take the full stack with Peter (as its his army) and attack the Danes, if Peter agrees with it (but since hes away I suppose you can just take it)

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 20:00
Okay, I'm eating lunch, should be done in a few. I'll pick up the save then if no one else has, otherwise I can do it anytime late tonight.

Wish me luck! My first full 3x gold stack. I'm oddly excited. Should be the best AI stack evah for me. :laugh4:

:egypt:

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 20:03
Gold stacks aren't too bad if you got heavy cavalry. If you don't, you better hope you have the (very) high ground.
Missiles help too in the latter case.

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 20:36
Taking the save now. :)

:egypt:

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 20:56
Please remember to post up your battle reports like TC has done.

Even if it is a placeholder post I can link it in the Chancellor report and it will update automatically. Plus it give me the order in which things happened so I can write about it correctly.

Please also put the location and year in bold at the top if at all possible.

Cheers
AG

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 21:25
Done and won. I exhausted my heavy cavalry in the fight, but remarkably some 80 of them 'healed' after the battle. Is that normal for Teutons? I never noticed it with Hospitallers (And certainly not with the rest of the units in this battle).

Save is here:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1342-5.zip

Screenshots and battle report will follow.

Additionally I believe I may have enough men left to relieve the siege of Hamburg (It's a normal stack after all). The family is in need of some attention at the moment, but late tonight I'll probably take a run at that.

Oh, and ransom was refused. :(

:egypt:

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 21:37
At least they were able to pay the ransom if they had been willing :grin:

Well done in the fight btw. On the healing matter, units first engaged in combat have a higher heal rate than those engaged later. So if you throw your cavalry into the fray, there is a high chance many of them will heal if you win.
Also, having any ancillary that gives BattleSurgery helps. One of the reasons Hans' units almost recovered to full after each battle (and now Elberhard's)

TinCow
12-24-2007, 21:39
I am very glad you won. I've been a bit worried that I overdid it on the Cataclysm. The Milan defense was the first PBM battle I have ever lost.

FactionHeir
12-24-2007, 21:41
Me thinks you did on the French :tongue2:

They had some 4 gold stacks of which 3 are still alive (Rheims, Dijon, Metz) Maybe more.

Northnovas
12-24-2007, 21:41
Well no one has done it yet and it is now officially Dec 25 on the other side of the world where some of our members reside. Here things are starting to wind down towards the supper hour and the stores are closing. I even have the xmas theme turned on my Guild display.~:santa:

I just want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Healthy New Year!
May you have continued gaming into 2008!

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 21:48
Well no one has done it yet and it is now officially Dec 25 on the other side of the world where some of our members reside. Here things are starting to wind down towards the supper hour and the stores are closing. I even have the xmas theme turned on my Guild display.~:santa:

I just want to wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Healthy New Year!
May you have continued gaming into 2008!

I'd like to say the same thing as Northnovas!!

Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to you all.

Back to being Chancellor...this is getting a little tense :whip:

NN I've made my battle requests of House Austria and you're on the pointy end there fella. Go and crush some Hungarian men and get some of your levy troops or army regiments in Vienna before the Hungarian's siege it...alternatively keep everything together and hammer the half stack then move as far north to Vienna as possible to relieve the pending siege.

Everyone has until midday tomorrow.

Cheers
AG

econ21
12-24-2007, 21:49
Taking the save for Elberhard Pt II.

Northnovas
12-24-2007, 21:55
I'd like to say the same thing as Northnovas!!

Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to you all.

Back to being Chancellor...this is getting a little tense :whip:

NN I've made my battle requests of House Austria and you're on the pointy end there fella. Go and crush some Hungarian men and get some of your levy troops or army regiments in Vienna before the Hungarian's siege it...alternatively keep everything together and hammer the half stack then move as far north to Vienna as possible to relieve the pending siege.

Everyone has until midday tomorrow.

Cheers
AG
Okay it's nice to jump into the thick of things again. I see a few seem to be having fun!
I haven't seen the map since a few saves ago.
I will pick up the save a little bit later in the evening.

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 22:06
Absolutely, Merry Xmas and Happy Holidays.

The fight wasn't actually as close as the one with at Madgeburg with the bridge that only had 4 triple golds, mostly because I had sufficient heavy cavalry and more than adequate ammunition by the time the infantry reached my lines. If there had been more heavy cavalry I would've been in serious trouble (As it is the War Clerics chased Fritz as he ran around his crossbowmen. Rather hilarious actually.). I decided not to bring the bombard or ribault as well in the hopes that I could use them against the siege army rather than exhaust them against 3x golds that won't break anyway. We'll see if that works out.

I'm working through the battle report now (Munchkin is making muffins with GM :2thumbsup: ). It was a fun battle, with constant charges and poor Teutons getting trapped in massed Danish lines. I could probably do it with about 200 fewer losses a second time, as I ground away most of my infantry as it turned out somewhat unecessarily. I expect if I can lift the siege that I will give the remaining cavalry to Peter (So he can move as needed) and take most of the infantry in to hold Hamburg.

:egypt:

econ21
12-24-2007, 23:38
Just to say, there is a new save available for any takers.

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1342-6.zip

Zim
12-24-2007, 23:40
Taking the save.

flyd
12-24-2007, 23:43
AG, when you grab the save at the end, please move Lukas Godwinson as far north out of the Nuremburg as he'll go, so he can be attached to a Franconian army as soon as possible.

AussieGiant
12-24-2007, 23:47
AG, when you grab the save at the end, please move Lukas Godwinson as far north out of the Nuremburg as he'll go, so he can be attached to a Franconian army as soon as possible.

Will do FD.

Ramses II CP
12-24-2007, 23:53
The Hamburg battle report is up in the BR thread. I'm off to dinner, back later tonight to try to lift the siege.

Nice work capturing Venice! I didn't think your cannon could march far enough, guessing the garrison sallied when you attacked that army outside the city?

:egypt:

AussieGiant
12-25-2007, 00:11
Guy's...well bloody done on all fronts I must say. I am truly amazed at some of the results I am seeing.

OK please take the save for your Outremer letter and move things as you see fit before noon on Tuesday.

I'm kinda worried I wont hold up my end of the deal with Arnold actually...:sweatdrop:

Cecil XIX
12-25-2007, 00:14
AG, if that Hungarian army west of Vienna is knocked out please move Edmund back to Prague.

FactionHeir
12-25-2007, 00:20
Cecil: When will you be able to play turns again (i.e. MPC and MPC2)

Zim
12-25-2007, 00:23
http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1342-7.zip

All done. In a daring assault on one of the largest cities in the world, accompanied only by a depleted unit of spearmen and one unit of cannons, Andreas has taken Antioch and added 1,032 florins to the Imperial coffers.

It helped that it was defended by single unit of Vadaritoi, albeit beefed up super ones :clown:

FactionHeir
12-25-2007, 00:27
Shame you didn't sack it. Looks like Matthias hasn't had an influence on him yet.

Zim
12-25-2007, 00:28
Andreas is a bit high on the chiv-o-meter to sack an Imperial city. Plus, I think the people there suffered enough when the Byzzies exterminated the place.

FactionHeir
12-25-2007, 00:29
Actually, it would be interesting to see a "huge city" with the minimum of 400 population :grin:

econ21
12-25-2007, 00:36
Nice work capturing Venice! I didn't think your cannon could march far enough, guessing the garrison sallied when you attacked that army outside the city?

Thanks. :bow: What cannon? :inquisitive: Actually, I am thinking of christening it Elberhard's walking stick. :laugh4: I figure that is what made him crawl last turn, so I left it behind when attacking the bridge to Venice.

The garrison did sally - I judged it would be easier to fight them reinforcing a bridge rather than in a city. As it turned out, I am not sure I was right though, as the reinforcing army made it to the bridge before I had busted a path across it. The battle then reduced to a brutal slog through nearly 2000 Byzantines crammed at their end of the bridge. :sweatdrop:

GeneralHankerchief
12-25-2007, 02:26
Just wanted to say, since it's actually the big day for everyone except for those in North America...

Merry Christmas guys!!!

Northnovas
12-25-2007, 04:53
Okay taking the save now!~:santa:

Warluster
12-25-2007, 04:55
Merry XMas all, enoy today and tomorrow.

Northnovas
12-25-2007, 05:21
Here is the latest save:

http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/kotr1342-8.zip

The forces were split karl could not give up his artillery. Here is the motley crew in Vienna.

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/northnovas/Karl%20Battles/vienna.jpg

Ramses II CP
12-25-2007, 05:50
Okay, taking the save to attempt the relief of Hamburg. :beam:

:egypt:

econ21
12-25-2007, 11:17
From the Orders and Reports thread:


Not sure if I need to say this here as well as the OOC thread.

To avoid duplication, let's keep all announcements about taking the save and uploading new saves in the Orders and Report thread. Given the higher noise to signal ratio in the OOC thread, in future people don't need to make similar posts here.

I tried making only one post per turn in the Orders thread and editing it, but in practice I think posting twice - once when taking the save, a second when uploading a new one - may be better as the new post alerts other players to the update.

Similarly, any instructions to the Chancellor about what to do with your avatar, please put them in the Orders and Reports thread. That way he only needs to keep track of one thread.

This thread can be for OOC discussion about the game and things like wishing everyone a Happy Christmas!

:san_wink: :san_kiss: :san_angry: :san_lipsrsealed: :san_undecided: :san_tongue: :san_smiley: :san_shocked: :san_sad: :san_rolleyes: :san_laugh: :san_huh: :san_grin: :san_embarassed: :san_cry: :san_cool: :san_cheesy:

AussieGiant
12-25-2007, 12:49
Happy Xmas Everyone!!!

Just thought I'd say it again!! :2thumbsup:

Northnovas
12-25-2007, 13:05
From the Orders and Reports thread:



To avoid duplication, let's keep all announcements about taking the save and uploading new saves in the Orders and Report thread. Given the higher noise to signal ratio in the OOC thread, in future people don't need to make similar posts here.

I tried making only one post per turn in the Orders thread and editing it, but in practice I think posting twice - once when taking the save, a second when uploading a new one - may be better as the new post alerts other players to the update.

Similarly, any instructions to the Chancellor about what to do with your avatar, please put them in the Orders and Reports thread. That way he only needs to keep track of one thread.

This thread can be for OOC discussion about the game and things like wishing everyone a Happy Christmas!

:san_wink: :san_kiss: :san_angry: :san_lipsrsealed: :san_undecided: :san_tongue: :san_smiley: :san_shocked: :san_sad: :san_rolleyes: :san_laugh: :san_huh: :san_grin: :san_embarassed: :san_cry: :san_cool: :san_cheesy:
Thanks for the clarification! It makes much more sense to be all in the orders thread.

Zim
12-25-2007, 18:36
Woohoo! Andreas has been promoted! Acre makes a very good Christmas present, indeed. :beam:

Merry Christmas, everyone!

AussieGiant
12-25-2007, 20:13
Merry Xmas and the latest Chancellor report is now up!!

Please read.

The next phase is the end turn and AI attacks...I'll post up the order later tonight.

Warluster
12-25-2007, 23:47
I just read the post in the Stories Thread. Did it get Arnold?

Ramses II CP
12-26-2007, 00:16
A Russian ship no less? The Russians do tend to get the plague first, but is there actually a Russian ship at the Ragusa port or is it a 'ship'?

:inquisitive: :help:

Who takes over now? Need I point out that Fritz came in second in the election. :laugh4: :idea2: (By about 15% of the vote to 85%, but still!).

:egypt:

Northnovas
12-26-2007, 00:44
What about the Austrian House?? :help:

We need confirmation on his status and what the hell happened and who is responsible!! :dizzy2:

Battle report updated.

Zim
12-26-2007, 00:48
:sweatdrop: Wow, and just when I thought avatar deaths were mostly over for a while...

Is the plague officially on (as in, with the plague events)? If so, maybe we should move a few people out of settlements.

deguerra
12-26-2007, 00:48
Ouch.

(2nd in an election of 2. Sounds suspiciously like he became last :clown: )

GeneralHankerchief
12-26-2007, 00:59
So... what happens now?

FactionHeir
12-26-2007, 01:13
I'd be inclined to say Arnold ended his turn in Ragusa and the plague sweapt in on end turn and he caught it. He won't be dead that quickly though I don't think. Usually takes a turn or more, although there are exceptions.

econ21
12-26-2007, 01:50
Apparently, there are some defensive battles this turn. I understand those involved will be PMd. AussieGiant has requested no peaking at the save unless you have a battle, please, and if you do peak, don’t disclose what you see to others.

deguerra
12-26-2007, 03:34
will get onto mine shortly.

GeneralHankerchief
12-26-2007, 04:27
I'd be inclined to say Arnold ended his turn in Ragusa and the plague sweapt in on end turn and he caught it. He won't be dead that quickly though I don't think. Usually takes a turn or more, although there are exceptions.

Wolfgang Hummel caught it and survived, IIRC.

Ramses II CP
12-26-2007, 04:32
I hope Peter is okay where I stranded him (Or where Arnold put him), and I hope he doesn't lose my slow bloody bombard. :sweatdrop:

NN and I have our battle reports up. Looking forward to Zim's!

edit: In my AAR quite a number of my generals caught the plague, carried it around for years at sea, and all but one of them survived IIRC. That was 'medium' campaign difficulty if that matters.

:egypt:

OverKnight
12-26-2007, 04:42
Geez, can't we have one good year that isn't marred by ill omens?

I'm still away from the game, can anyone tell me the units that are currently under Matt's command and verify he's at the Iron Bridge? I'll find out in 10 hours, but I am curious.

Northnovas
12-26-2007, 05:18
Geez, can't we have one good year that isn't marred by ill omens?

I'm still away from the game, can anyone tell me the units that are currently under Matt's command and verify he's at the Iron Bridge? I'll find out in 10 hours, but I am curious.


Here is a snap shot from the latest save of your location and men.

https://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa55/northnovas/helpdesk/acre.jpg

OverKnight
12-26-2007, 05:31
Thanks Northnovas! Odd, I thought they had been moved to the bridge. Of course that might be implemented in the latest save of mystery.

deguerra
12-26-2007, 05:33
ok, did my battle. went perfectly, really, a glorious slaughter.

let the AI go on, metz was attacked and autoresolved (as per econ21s instructions), genoa was also sieged by the frenchies.

Matthias was attacked in outremer so im sending the save to OK. Will post battle reports etc later.

cheers

deguerra

Ramses II CP
12-26-2007, 05:53
I didn't think you'd have any trouble with those Frenchies. Well done Deguerra. :2thumbsup:

:egypt:

deguerra
12-26-2007, 05:56
thanks! well it was only my second (and thats counting a rather unimporant frozen crusade one) PBM battle, and wow is it different if you really care about your general. That being said, Ludwig saw action against artillery crews, a full unit of scots guards and some lancers, but he prbly didnt fight quite as much as he might have in an SP game. That being said, siege battles where I only have a single cavalry unit aren't really perfect for general charges :clown:

Zim
12-26-2007, 06:24
I'm guessing it's implemented in the mystery save, the cannons should make it to the bridge as well(they have the move).


Thanks Northnovas! Odd, I thought they had been moved to the bridge. Of course that might be implemented in the latest save of mystery.

Thanks, I should get the report up sometime in the next 5-6 hours. What little excitement occurred in the battle was from my using so few troops. :clown:




NN and I have our battle reports up. Looking forward to Zim's!


Edit: Sorry guys, it's been a long day. I'll get that report up tomorrow. :yes:

deguerra
12-26-2007, 07:05
battle report is now up. should have taken a few more screenshots, because it really was quite exciting. but there you have it.

also, econ21 requested screens of the auto resolve of Metz. sadly, it went badly for the reich:

https://img177.imageshack.us/img177/8863/0032ri1.gif (https://imageshack.us)
https://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6435/0033do3.gif (https://imageshack.us)

TinCow
12-26-2007, 13:12
So much for the threat to Bavaria. The massive French army that was marching on Genoa rebelled. It is now composed of three rebel units and is not besieging the city. I don't know whether to be happy as Lothar or angry as GM.

deguerra
12-26-2007, 14:11
?!? When did it do that? When I played my battle they were still French...I think. In any case, be happy. France is still a threat enough :D

TinCow
12-26-2007, 14:28
The most recent save (OK's battle) has them as a tiny stack of rebels. You can tell it's the same army because it's still commanded by the same Captain.

FactionHeir
12-26-2007, 17:22
Well, I suppose it saved Lothar's hide :grin:

Ramses II CP
12-27-2007, 04:10
I've got time to fight that sally tonight, if Peter's around to concur and the sally itself is okay.

:egypt:

econ21
12-27-2007, 04:16
I've got time to fight that sally tonight, if Peter's around to concur and the sally itself is okay.

Gibson is down as being on reserve duty, so I think you can go ahead with the sally as long as you don't get him killed.

Also, regarding Prague, we have Northnovas down as Roadkill's proxy, so if he wants to relieve that city that would be fine too. (Edit: If Hermann Steffen can get there in time for the battle, then NN is free to move up him. Ditto any other mutually agreeable movements of avatars that players arrange.)

I have not topped up the AI money this turn, so if Factionheir wants to use his vodoo to fine tune their balances, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, I will lob brown paper bags with 40k in at them until it seems about right.

I will be out of touch for the next 24 hours, but that will give time for people to look at the situation and post any instructions for when I get back.

Ramses II CP
12-27-2007, 04:28
I'm probably going to move Peter out of the way before I fight. Taking the save. This will be ugly for that silver bar army. ;)

:egypt:

OverKnight
12-27-2007, 08:34
Battle Report is up.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1789594&postcount=217

FactionHeir
12-27-2007, 11:41
I have not topped up the AI money this turn, so if Factionheir wants to use his vodoo to fine tune their balances, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, I will lob brown paper bags with 40k in at them until it seems about right.


Alright. Will do once OK returns the save.

Ramses II CP
12-27-2007, 15:10
I'm still irritated at the AI's failure to break, so I'm wondering if I can use that stack outside Hamburg to attack them and relieve the siege. Either with Fritz as general sallying from Hamburg, or with Peter leading them. I know Peter would act to lift the siege if Gibson were here and I'm especially annoyed that the remaining Danish army is useless and not a threat in the slightest (90% swordstaff who will happily march around at a snail's pace and be shot down). I want to wipe them out!

Anyway, I don't want to do something excessively 'gamey' in a turn when I already used a sally, albeit crudely on my part, to break a superior force, but neither do I want to be trapped pointlessly at Hamburg.

:egypt:

Northnovas
12-27-2007, 15:40
Picking up the latest save for Vienna region.

OverKnight
12-27-2007, 16:19
Hey, Northnovas and others, I think claiming and putting up a new save is now handled in the Reports and Order thread.

I just don't want someone else claiming it while it's out.

Northnovas
12-27-2007, 16:49
Hey, Northnovas and others, I think claiming and putting up a new save is now handled in the Reports and Order thread.

I just don't want someone else claiming it while it's out.

Okay, returning it wear it belongs. That was the toughest field battle I have fought in this game. It was worse then fighting a siege battle. They just came at me and the spearmen neutralized the cavalry punch I was waiting for. It says clear victory but it did not feel like one.

FactionHeir
12-27-2007, 17:30
Northnovas:
I think you may just have broken the rules by having 3 GBs in your force. You are not allowed to have more than 2 at any time except for crusade armies.

Ramses II CP
12-27-2007, 17:40
The battle report for my failure at Hamburg is up now, if anyone is curious. I'm thinking I may put together a story around Fritz's take on the events of 1344 later.

:egypt:

gibsonsg91921
12-27-2007, 19:01
Let me clarify - when it says I'm on reserve duty, it means I have unpredictable availability to fight battles. Sometimes I can, sometimes I can't. I probably can today if one comes up, but not 'til later because my mom is working on the computer.

GeneralHankerchief
12-27-2007, 20:56
We need a Necessary and Proper Clause for the Charter.

Privateerkev
12-27-2007, 20:59
We need a Necessary and Proper Clause for the Charter.

Then just propose it in the Diet. I'm trying to get an emergency session going so you can put it in there. :beam:

Northnovas
12-27-2007, 21:36
Northnovas:
I think you may just have broken the rules by having 3 GBs in your force. You are not allowed to have more than 2 at any time except for crusade armies.

Guilty has charged I forgot all about the rule. There are 3 in Prague just so there is a heads up. I guess I should go over the rules once in awhile to keep up for those situations.
I was looking to get the avatars knighted then looking for extra cavalry. :shame:

Privateerkev
12-27-2007, 21:41
Well, since Karl is kicking the bucket soon, the "3 avatars" rule will be moot.

Also, I forget but did we agree to relax the "army composition" rule when we agreed to feudal levies? :book:

Or was that just for the cataclysm?

FactionHeir
12-27-2007, 22:20
Cataclysm only.
Still, another avatar will hardly count as your levy :tongue2:

Northnovas: I don't think it will be counted too heavily against you, afterall, Elberhard's army is hardly within composition rules in terms of knights :grin:

Northnovas
12-27-2007, 22:31
This game has grown so much that the simple things from the start are forgotten and yet not all the bases are covered for for other matters like who is in charge.. when??

TinCow
12-27-2007, 22:38
Remember that rules are pretty much only applicable to the extent that the Diet chooses to enforce them. Unless someone wants to take on the 3 generals in a stack issue in the Diet, it's a moot point.

FactionHeir
12-28-2007, 00:15
Remember that rules are pretty much only applicable to the extent that the Diet chooses to enforce them. Unless someone wants to take on the 3 generals in a stack issue in the Diet, it's a moot point.

To be fair though, the composition rule is an OOC thing as there is no IC reason to really back it up. Its like someone commanding an all knightcav stack. Why would the diet choose to object if there was no lack of funds and everyone had a decent army?

TinCow
12-28-2007, 00:33
Surely it is obvious from the current situation that what Northnovas did was not exploiting the rules or harming the game in any way. In fact, he did it to get around this annoying 'Knight' rule which is, frankly, an increasingly annoying formality rather than a good rule. In fact, I just led 3 avatars in a battle myself, though I can 'legalese' my way out of it by saying that they were split between two armies at the start of the battle. These are not the Ten Commandments. We wrote them ourselves and they are bound to be flawed. Bending the rules here and there is a good thing if it keeps the game flowing nicely.

FactionHeir
12-28-2007, 00:38
Of course it is out of question that he wanted to exploit the rules.
Nevertheless, I think its good to discuss how stringent we should be keeping to them and when it would be permissible to bend them.

I'm thinking that there will come a time that I will also need to bend them in the near future: I noticed you created almost a full stack of fully upgraded triple silver lancers (read: a stack with lancers only) near Dijon. That one should be hell to beat.

econ21
12-28-2007, 00:50
afterall, Elberhard's army is hardly within composition rules in terms of knights :grin:

Would you believe me if I said I did not think of that? :embarassed:

FactionHeir
12-28-2007, 00:52
Actually I would. One usually doesn't count the units given before a battle unless one is also chancellor or wanting to use fewer units to force a heroic victory :yes:

TinCow
12-28-2007, 00:55
I'm sure we can find half a dozen other violations of the rule due to the mess that was left after the Cataclysm. Let's do our best to ignore them for now and simply work towards turning them into compliant armies when reinforcements are allocated. It would be absurd to force Elberhard to fight with half his army under the circumstances.

FactionHeir
12-28-2007, 00:58
PK: Is Essen some Pro-People Power activist? Because he sure seems like one :grin:

TC: Very agreeable.

Zim
12-28-2007, 01:06
I finally got the assault of Antioch up. Those enemy Vardaratoi were triple silver chevron, had stats higher than my bodyguard, and outnumbered them 2:1. :sweatdrop: Thank goodness for armoured spearmen, though! :beam:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1788758&postcount=214

Zim
12-28-2007, 05:27
Hey guys, does anyone know if you can get dread points for sacking a city with the KOTR fix mod? I knew in vanilla, if enough people were killed in the sacking (generally a few thousand) you could get them.

Basically, I'm trying to see if raiding Byzantine cities is the kind of thing a chivalrous avatar like Andreas could particiapte in. :yes:

GeneralHankerchief
12-28-2007, 05:29
I recall FH saying that sacking doesn't count either way.

Obviously, occupying still increases chiv and exterminating dread, but that's it.

FactionHeir
12-28-2007, 12:04
25% chance of StrategyDread and Despoiler. (And of course a point towards VictorVirtue)

Privateerkev
12-28-2007, 16:49
PK: Is Essen some Pro-People Power activist? Because he sure seems like one :grin:

He is more of a "strict constructionist". Also, I'd like to point out that his stance in the Diet is purely IC. OOC, I never mind when Econ fills in as Chancellor with his avatar.

But IC, if you turn the Charter on it's side, and squint at it, it looked like he was breaking the law. So, I thought I'd have a little fun. :yes:

econ21
12-28-2007, 17:19
Cecil seems to have run off with the save, so in the interim, I have compiled a list of battles fought under this Chancellorship so far:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1785026&postcount=312

I am missing details for Counter Karolinger's battle against Cpt Draganos and for Ludwig's defence of Bruges (deguerra's links to his screenshots don't seem to show up).

I have based the list on the battle reports, so let me know if there are omissions.

TinCow
12-28-2007, 17:28
You're also missing my assault on Milan, but I do not have the battle report up for that. I doubt I'll be able to write one up given my current time constraints, but I will at least post the screenshots this evening.

Ramses II CP
12-28-2007, 17:29
The attack on the siege army was actually launched by Peter, if that makes a difference in the notation.

Of course OOC econ was the obvious choice to take over as Chancellor, it's IC that it smells fishy. :laugh4: Mostly Fritz just wanted to **** on Elberhard's parade I suspect.

:egypt:

OverKnight
12-29-2007, 02:20
Holy #$@#$$! :jawdrop:

God, Kaisers have a shorter life expectancy than a member of a Penal Battalion!

My regrets, econ21, he was a damn fine character, well fleshed out with great secondary characters.

Italy is turning into even more of charnel pit. :no:

Uh, so who's running the show?

Privateerkev
12-29-2007, 02:22
Uh, so who's running the show?

A good question.

Another good question is, who is the new Prince?

Warluster
12-29-2007, 02:23
I tihnk Peter runs the show now.

I know who the new Prince is, can I say?

TinCow
12-29-2007, 02:24
Dieter von Kassel. Son of the only man in the Pillory. I have no idea how we'll justify that IC.

Privateerkev
12-29-2007, 02:25
Dieter von Kassel. Son of the only man in the Pillory. I have no idea how we'll justify that IC.

Just... awesome... :2thumbsup:

Jan's nephew becomes Prince. Perfect... :laugh4: