Christmas Mafia :) [Concluded] [Archive]

sapi

12-28-2007, 11:30

PMs have been sent - townies did not receive a PM - it is now day 1.

Day phases are different in this game - almost in reverse - so listen up. Of course this means that the game is almost certainly unbalanced, seeing as this is the first time I've played around with this idea, but that makes it all the more interesting ~:)

Basically, to stay with the Christmas spirit, each player has three presents to distribute each round. Since we appear to have 17 players, that makes a total of 51 presents. During the round each player may Give: their presents in the same way that they would normally target votes, and they may likewise unvote (Take:) without penalty.

However, it is at the end of the day phase that things differ. The mafia will have provided me with an ordered list of all the players in the game, based on their apparent threat level (or indeed, whatever the hell they want :beam:). (One of) the player(s) with the (equal) least amount of presents will be lynched according to this 'christmas list'.

A final note/clarification: you can't use your own presents to protect yourself, and as such, everyone is counted as starting each round on 0 presents

---

There is only one known role, that of Santa; the player assigned this role may or may not wish to divulge some information gained through their abilities at the start of each day phase, in a less than obvious way. You'll see what I mean once the game starts ~:)

...good luck all :yes:

FactionHeir

12-28-2007, 11:57

Eh, makes me a townie then?
Still, I think its weird you can take a present away from someone to gift it to another. Try that during christmas and you'll find yourself highly unpopular :grin:

So.... Give: Lord Winter (3)
Because you seem to be new to mafia.

Andres

12-28-2007, 12:01

Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas all :san_wink:

sapi

12-28-2007, 12:41

Still, I think its weird you can take a present away from someone to gift it to another. Try that during christmas and you'll find yourself highly unpopular No guarantees that removing someone's protection here won't do the same :grin2:

Charge

12-28-2007, 13:16

TOWN TOWN :beam:

Soo... Give: FactionHeir (2) in case he's not lying
and maybe Give: Shlin28 (1)

merry christmas :grin:

FactionHeir

12-28-2007, 13:19

Why thank you, I feel much merrier now that I received my first (belated) christmas presents :grin2:

Tiberius of the Drake

12-28-2007, 15:52

I feel quite merry.Give:Charge(1) and Give:Shlin28(1) and finally Give:Lord Winter (1)

MERRY (BELATED) CHRISTMAS

woad&fangs

12-28-2007, 16:18

Lord Winter was once called Destroyer of Hope. He's played before.

Gift (1) Peasant Phill

Gift (1) Factionheir looking out for the new guys is very admirable in my eyes even if they really are vets.

gift (1) Ichigo Long time no see. Welcome back.

FactionHeir

12-28-2007, 16:24

Ohhhh so that's what the "formerly DoH" means. I thought he worked for the deparment of health :laugh4:

In that case, take: Lord Winter (1), gift: woad&fangs (1)

Tiberius of the Drake

12-28-2007, 17:03

thanks for bringing that up W&F

Take:Lord Winter, Give: Woad&Fangs

Northnovas

12-28-2007, 18:02

This an interesting twist and would it be wrong to abstain in this first round. I would not want to come across for not giving, However, I am not imaginative enough so I will work down the list. I don't really know if it is the naught or nice list but I guess we will all find out soon enough.

Give:Charge
Give:Kommodus
Give:Andres

seireikhaan

12-28-2007, 20:25

Give: Kamikhaan (3)
:beam:

Csargo

12-28-2007, 23:30

So we can give three presents or take three presents? Does someone get lynched?

shlin28

12-28-2007, 23:38

Is the person with the most or the least presents lynched?

Andres

12-28-2007, 23:40

Give : woad&fangs (3)

woad&fangs

12-28-2007, 23:41

Andres, can I ask why you are being so kind to me?

Charge

12-28-2007, 23:42

shlin28

12-28-2007, 23:52

I think we can only give(vote), but can unvote(take); lynched will be one with least amount of presents.

Also I assume you can't give presents to yourself, as it makes no sense to vote anybody except yourself.

So whats the point of voting? If you vote for someone, you will have less presents than anyone else... so you get yourself lynched :inquisitive:

CountArach

12-29-2007, 02:25

So whats the point of voting? If you vote for someone, you will have less presents than anyone else... so you get yourself lynched :inquisitive:
Yes, a design flaw indeed...

I think the best thing we could do would be to give everyone one, EXCEPT the person that the town wants to lynch, because that way they would be the only person with zero presents and hence be lynched against the Mafia's wishes. That puts all of the power in the Townie's hands.

Hence I shall give presents to three people who haven't recieved any yet. I can take a present back later if needed. I would also appreciate if I could be given one.

Give: BSR
Give: Draco
Give: Omanes

I also suggest someone starts a tally. Not me though... I'm a little busy right now.

sapi

12-29-2007, 03:42

So whats the point of voting? If you vote for someone, you will have less presents than anyone else... so you get yourself lynched :inquisitive:
Sorry, I should have clarified that: you can't use your own presents to protect yourself, and as such, everyone is counted as starting each round on 0 presents ~:)

Csargo

12-29-2007, 03:45

Give:Andres(1), Kommodus(1), and FH(1)

seireikhaan

12-29-2007, 03:55

Ungive:

Give: Andres

Give: Kommodus

Give: Woads&Fangs

sapi

12-29-2007, 04:22

Ungive:

Give: Andres

Give: Kommodus

Give: Woads&Fangs

Take: Draco(1)
You have not given any presents to Draco and thus cannot take them (remember, as I said in the instructions post, Take is the equivalent of an unvote in that it frees you to give that present to someone else; but it has to be done with one of the presents that you have given)

Ayachuco

12-29-2007, 05:05

I tried to do a tally, but now my head hurts from tracking one person. I give up.

Umm, let's see here. I will give these people a present b/c I want to.

Give:1 CA
Give:1 Peasant Phill
Give:1 Omanes

Csargo

12-29-2007, 05:07

Probably would have been easier to tally if we only got one present :grin:

seireikhaan

12-29-2007, 05:20

You have not given any presents to Draco and thus cannot take them (remember, as I said in the instructions post, Take is the equivalent of an unvote in that it frees you to give that present to someone else; but it has to be done with one of the presents that you have given)
Edited original post.

Kommodus

12-29-2007, 06:42

Give:Andres(1), Kommodus(1), and FH(1)

Thanks bro, nice to see you again! :bow:

Give: Ichigo (2)
Give: kamikhaan (1)

Tratorix

12-29-2007, 07:39

Give 3: Kamikhaan

I'm a bit confused on how we get rid of the mafia in this game. Is there a voting period?

sapi

12-29-2007, 08:12

Give 3: Kamikhaan

I'm a bit confused on how we get rid of the mafia in this game. Is there a voting period?
This is the voting period; one of the players who recieves the equal least amount of presents will be lynched ~;)

The only practical difference to the normal game is that the town needs to be far more organized to actually ensure that their lynch target, or targets, are left on equal least presents at the end of the day phase.

Omanes Alexandrapolites

12-29-2007, 10:45

Give: Andres (3)

Peasant Phill

12-29-2007, 11:03

Wait I'm not entirely sure what I'm doing here. Does giving present equal voting for that person or does it mean that your protecting him from lynching? I think it's the protection thingy so:

Give: Komodus (3) And try to explain your choices next time you use holmes.

sapi

12-29-2007, 11:41

sapi

12-29-2007, 12:08

Votes tallied (below).

http://users.on.net/~purdsa/temp/mafiad1.png

Warmaster Horus has been lynched.

It is now the night phase and all orders are due to me. Each role has 24 hours to PM their instructions to me ~:)

Charge

12-29-2007, 12:14

Cruel christmas :no:
guy came for party, but was lynched...

what now?

sapi

12-29-2007, 12:15

A 24 hour night phase, as per usual :yes:

CountArach

12-29-2007, 22:24

Alright, we need to be more organised so that people we want lynched will be lynched. We should probably begin discussing it (If they kill us, we can still post I presume).

Northnovas

12-30-2007, 00:04

It would be nice to get one present.:embarassed:
Though it is a good point to organize and discuss a strategy. The difficult part at this point is choosing a townie not to receive any gifts and then evenly distribute the rest.:juggle2:

Lord Winter

12-30-2007, 05:12

Sorry guys I've been busy so I missed the first round shouldn't happen again.

Faction Heir thanks for the thought but it seems kind of a scummy move to try to throw suspicon from yourself by appearing as the kind player. Not that you aren't kind but its mafia, its a game of paranoia :smash:

FoS: Faction Heir

Same with tiberious for potential bandwagoning

FoS: Tberious

sapi

12-30-2007, 12:45

shiln28 was sleeping soundly through the night, as all good boys do. Securely tucked away in his bed, he was dreaming of all the gifts Santa would bring for him on Christmas morning.

Outside the street, the packed snow and ice crunching under his feet as he walked, was a thing. What this thing was was almost impossible to quantify, hidden as it was under layers of hair. It hardly looked human, and if looks weren't enough, its later actions would have something to say about that topic.

Trudging up to shlin28's door, the thing pushed it open with nary a knock, and walked inside. Moving up the creaking staircase to the bedroom, it drew a long blade from beneath its fur coat and, with this drawn, crept into the room.

shiln28 was still sleeping soundly, immersed in his dream, and he remained this way for some time, at least until the blade made its first incision, severing the aorta and ensuring death.

But shlin28's screaming didn't stop the thing from completing the job, and walking off with his heart in hand.

For shlin28, it most certainly was not going to be a very merry Christmas.

---

24 hour day phase has begun :thumbsup:

FactionHeir

12-30-2007, 12:55

Ehh a heart collector? Does he want to sell it off to some shady transplant unit or what?

Gift: Ichigo (1) Charge (1) Andres (1)

Charge

12-30-2007, 13:44

Gift: Northnovas (1) Tiberius (1) 3rd not sure yet ...

woad&fangs

12-30-2007, 17:00

Gift: Northnovas(1)
I doubt that the mafia would let each other have 0 presents. Him and Tiberius both recieved 0 presents last round. Tiberius seemed to bandwagon a bit last round. that is why I'm not giving him any presents.

Gift: Kommodus(1)
I want to see this new and improved version of Holmes in action. It was pretty effective in my game.

Gift: Andres(1)
Thanks for all those presents last round but could you explain why you decided to use all three of yours on me when I already had two which meant that I was pretty safe.

Lord Winter

12-30-2007, 17:23

Gift Northnovas (1)

agree with woads and fangs logic here

Gift: Kommodus (1)
Have to keep Holmes around

Gift: Woad and Fangs (1)

I think he's inoccent and he dosn't have any presents.

Reasons everyone :yes:

Should we as a town start deciding a lynch? I would favor Factionheir or tiberous for previous scummy behavior. (see my last post)

FactionHeir

12-30-2007, 17:25

Ever since I have been mafia once everyone seems to think I'm scummy.

Charge

12-30-2007, 17:36

Lord Winter

12-30-2007, 18:16

To a certain extent, isn't bandwagon inevitable at a certain point though? I'm just trying to go off what we have.

Tiberius of the Drake

12-30-2007, 19:57

I havent fully decide who i want to give the other one to but Ill give

Give: Charge(2) and why do people think Im scummy?

FactionHeir

12-30-2007, 20:39

Well at least they don't judge you as scummy as myself because you at least got some presents. I got none :cry:

CountArach

12-30-2007, 22:11

I doubt that the mafia would let each other have 0 presents. Him and Tiberius both recieved 0 presents last round. Tiberius seemed to bandwagon a bit last round. that is why I'm not giving him any presents.
A very good point. So I believe we can let Northnovas off and consider him innocent.

Give: Northnovas 1
Give: Woad and Fangs 1
Give: FactionHeir 1

Tiberius of the Drake

12-30-2007, 22:57

Ive decided to give my last gift.

Give:Andres

What is your oppinion on what is going on?

Charge

12-31-2007, 00:22

Originally posted by woad&fangs
I doubt that the mafia would let each other have 0 presents. Him and Tiberius both recieved 0 presents last round. Tiberius seemed to bandwagon a bit last round. that is why I'm not giving him any presents.Originally posted by CountArach
A very good point. So I believe we can let Northnovas off and consider him innocent.
So one with no presents in R1 is innocent while other is not? Bcs of bandwagon? hmmmm, I really doubt that it can be used as proving someone's guiltiness, it would be veeery risky for them to leave one without gifts, and why do it in round 1?
(so we lost 1 guy already :brood:)

We must start something like voting discussion - otherwise almost no chances mafioso will be lynched . If we start it, there is possibility of picking up mafioso as target - they can abandon him or may not, anyway it is better. Though choice should be careful as there are a lot of them too to choose 'wrong' guy..
Who who disagree or will keep silent, are definitely mafiosos
As CA wanting discussion too, I think he's our guy..:)

What do people waiting for?

p.s.
my possible sudden death next night won't help mafia much :D

Tally

Northnovas: 4
Charge: 3
Andres: 3
Kommodus: 2
woad&fangs: 2
Ichigo: 1
FactionHeir: 1
Tiberius of the Drake: 1
CountArach: 1

0:
BSR
Omanes
Draco Leman
kamikhaan
Lord Winter
Peasant Phill

woad&fangs

12-31-2007, 00:50

take: Northnovas; Give: Peasant Phill

Northnovas

12-31-2007, 01:48

Give: FactionHeir, Peasant Phill, Lord Winter

Note on the 0 Lord Winter was the only one to vote (give) so far of that group.

Csargo

12-31-2007, 05:21

Give:Omanes and kamikhaan

Ayachuco

12-31-2007, 05:43

Awww, dang!
Its only me and BSR left who have no presents, yet.
Well, I guess that's alright as long as someone gives me one soon.

Give: Lord Winter (1)
Give: BSR (1)
I don't really see the point of giving anymore presents since I couldn't give myself one and everyone else except BSR already has one so it wouldn't make a difference who I give them too.
Which brings me to my first point: Just b/c someone doesn't receive a gift doesn't mean they're innocent, it just means they probably weren't high enough on the mafioso target list or they weren't even on the list to begin with (if they are part of the mafia team). So if everyone had zero or one gift, only the people on the list would get lynched not the mafiosos. But, hey, what do I know?
One final note:
Hmmm, Andres has not posted why he gave woad & fangs 3 presents yet and hasn't given any out and somehow he is still able to receive 3 presents. This does not bode well for the townies if we just randomly give out presents (I know, I'm a hypocrite since my giving is random at this point) or shower people who had zero gifts the previous round with gifts and do all this flip-flopping.

Lord Winter

12-31-2007, 09:13

Take: Northnovas Give: Draco Lemen

Thank you for adding your 2 cents to disscusion. I'd rather lynch a lurker then someone who is perticapating for now. Not saying that Northnovas is lurking, I just needed a present from some where.

Peasant Phill

12-31-2007, 10:15

I was fearing I would be forgotten. Thanks guys.

I have still no clue who to protect or who not to protect (this system requires much more time to stay on top of things.

So give (3): Komodus like last time

Kommodus

12-31-2007, 15:39

Ok, looks like I'm not too late, so...

Give: Ichigo (2)

From what I remember, his instincts and experience are very effective at sniffing out the mafia. Of course, he might be guilty but I'd rather he not be lynched yet.

Give: Charge (1)

For getting some good discussion started.

And finally,

FoS: Peasant Phill

Dude... in W&F's game you were extremely skeptical of me, but now you've given me all your gifts twice in a row (even though I've never been in danger of being lynched). Is it, perhaps, the "safe" way to go, freeing you from having to make any real choices? :inquisitive:

sapi

12-31-2007, 17:02

I'm writing at this far too early in the morning, but anyway: votes are closed, I'll tally tomorrow. The night phase has begun ~:)

sapi

01-01-2008, 05:15

http://users.on.net/~purdsa/temp/mafiad2.png

kamikhaan has been lynched.

The night phase will end at around 2030 AEST (1030GMT)

seireikhaan

01-01-2008, 06:34

:cry:
I died on New Years?

Omanes Alexandrapolites

01-01-2008, 11:14

Sorry about my lack of activity over the previous round.

From observations so far, the next round, I strongly advise against protecting Andres. His inquisitorial self has melted away, only posting fairly off-topic remarks. When he does vote, he also fails to supply a reason, which worries me a little.

Charge is another player I am suspicious of. His fairly long post here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1792317#post1792317) isn't how I remember him, but then again I've only ever observed him as a mafioso, so I suppose this variation could be explained by that. He also seems to be attempting to place CountArach in the frame with very little evidence - a common mafia tactic.

FactionHeir

01-01-2008, 12:50

kamikhaan was lynched even though he had more presents than either WH and shlin? How is that possible?

sapi

01-01-2008, 13:00

kamikhaan was lynched even though he had more presents than either WH and shlin? How is that possible?
The former was lynched and the latter was nightkilled (as indicated by the red name up top) :whip:

I'm going to have to partially extend both this night phase, and the next day phase, due firstly to the fact that I don't yet have orders from everyone for this one, and rl commitments for the day phase. I'll let you know the exact times tomorrow ~:)

FactionHeir

01-01-2008, 13:11

Oh, so WH was no one has been night killed this night. (yes)
And khan lynched because the lowest anyone had was 1 present.

sapi

01-01-2008, 13:23

d1: WH lynch.
n1: shlin kill.
d2: khaan lynched.
n2: [waiting for orders from some parties and thus not ready to release]

khaan was lynched because of the people on the equal lowest presents (of players alive), he was highest on the mafia's christmas hitlist ~:)

FactionHeir

01-01-2008, 13:31

Btw, I had 2 presents, but your table shows me with 1. But its reassuring to know I'm lower on the list :grin:

Charge

01-01-2008, 13:37

Charge is another player I am suspicious of. His fairly long post here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1792317#post1792317) isn't how I remember him, but then again I've only ever observed him as a mafioso, so I suppose this variation could be explained by that. He also seems to be attempting to place CountArach in the frame with very little evidence - a common mafia tactic.O! Probably you forgot your previous role here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96362) :laugh4: , so far my roles 3/1 town/mafia as you know;
however your suspicion against me and CA, seems very scummy to me. BTW, can you explain 3 gifts you had gave Andres on round 1, and now claiming him mafioso?

I can explain my activity simply bcs I'm townie- I have nothing to hide abd current things are clearly against us..

Sapi, can you make small adjustment to rules - that players can't give double, triple gifts to the same person (eg only 1-1-1)?
that will at least not allow mafia to give each other 3 presents, thus making them unlynchable..

I just cant see how town can get rid of even a single mafioso! :wall:

khaan was lynched because of the people on the equal lowest presents (of players alive), he was highest on the mafia's christmas hitlist ah well, I thought it's who stands closer to the left corner of the table :sweatdrop:

sapi

01-01-2008, 13:48

Btw, I had 2 presents, but your table shows me with 1. But its reassuring to know I'm lower on the list :grin:
Really? I'll have to take more care in counting then :wall:

Charge, I believe that the rules are balanced at this point ~:)

seireikhaan

01-01-2008, 18:16

khaan was lynched because of the people on the equal lowest presents (of players alive), he was highest on the mafia's christmas hitlist ~:)
Hmm, interresting, verrrry interresting.
FOS: Andres
Couple reasons: First, Omanes is quite right about Andres' behaviour its quite off. He's acting quite lackadaisical (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1621273#post1621273), much like he accidentally did a previous time he was mafia. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?p=1622110#post1622110)
Also, because I think he's one of the few people who would target me so highly. I'm honored, Andres.:bow:
Also, thanks, Sapi, for proving my innocence.:beam:

Omanes Alexandrapolites

01-01-2008, 19:25

O! Probably you forgot your previous role here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96362) :laugh4: , so far my roles 3/1 town/mafia as you know; Sorry, but I somehow forgot that occasion.

Regardless of my misjudgment, you seemed fairly naive for much of that game. This something which you do not appear to be here. Is this due to an increase in experience, or due to your role as a mafioso?

Another thing which arouses my doubts over your innocence is that you seem to be constantly proclaiming the fact that you are pro-town in all of your more recent posts. Doing this is a tactic which I would expect a mafioso to use.
however your suspicion against me and CA, seems very scummy to me.I have not mentioned anything against CountArach yet. I have however, mentioned your attempted framing of him in a previous post of yours.
BTW, can you explain 3 gifts you had gave Andres on round 1, and now claiming him mafioso?That was just random voting. As you may expect, there was no rational reasoning hidden behind it.

Ayachuco

01-01-2008, 20:26

From observations so far, the next round, I strongly advise against protecting Andres. His inquisitorial self has melted away, only posting fairly off-topic remarks. When he does vote, he also fails to supply a reason, which worries me a little.

Well, he did say that he wouldn't post much until January 15, but I think we shouldn't give Andres so many presents.

Sapi, does the Christmas mafia hitlist change or is it the same from the first round when they turned it in. Also, from what I read from the rules, it seems the mafia is invincible if they put themselves on the bottom of the list. The only way to lynch the mafia is to select one person for lynching and give everyone else a present, but we should expect some collateral damage. Hopefully that person will turn out to be a mafioso and not an innocent townie.

So, Who should we isolate next dayphase and not give any gifts?

Charge

01-01-2008, 20:38

Sorry, but I somehow forgot that occasion.

Regardless of my misjudgment, you seemed fairly naive for much of that game. This something which you do not appear to be here. Is this due to an increase in experience, or due to your role as a mafioso?

Another thing which arouses my doubts over your innocence is that you seem to be constantly proclaiming the fact that you are pro-town in all of your more recent posts. Doing this is a tactic which I would expect a mafioso to use.

Well, firstly, I'm not a mafioso (as I haven't received any pm saying this, infact I didn't receive any pm at all); experience - certainly, but how it can be linked with being a mafioso? They, as far as I know, tends to be more silent...Not? Just like people claimed Cheetah as mafioso in Brotherhood cause he posted a lot...

however your suspicion against me and CA, seems very scummy to me.
I have not mentioned anything against CountArach yet. I have however, mentioned your attempted framing of him in a previous post of yours.

BTW, can you explain 3 gifts you had gave Andres on round 1, and now claiming him mafioso?
That was just random voting. As you may expect, there was no rational reasoning hidden behind it.I quite not understand meaning of word 'framing' here..:(
I have seen him attempting to do obviously pro-town actions, thus think he's innocent. Your doubts about my role also makes him suspicious, as it seems like me (mafioso) protecting another mafioso...

Andres already had 3 gifts at moment you was voting, means he's ok, but you suddenly gave him whole 3 presents. Why? No other choices?

I'm curious about mafia abilities, can they kill townies or just that 'christmas list'? ie who was that 'thing'...

Ayachuco

01-01-2008, 20:40

I'm curious about mafia abilities, can they kill townies or just that 'christmas list'? ie who was that 'thing'...
Maybe it was the Santa role, that Sapi was talking about although I thought Santa would have probably been a doctor/detective role.

Charge

01-01-2008, 20:45

Maybe it was the Santa role, that Sapi was talking about although I thought Santa would have probably been a doctor/detective role.
Indeed Santa-Heart Collector.....

"the only known role" - maybe there are hidden roles as well?

CountArach

01-01-2008, 20:52

So, Who should we isolate next dayphase and not give any gifts?
I think that Omanes raises a good point, we should perhaps consider getting rid of our green friend Mr Andres.

Andres

01-01-2008, 22:12

I think that Omanes raises a good point, we should perhaps consider getting rid of our green friend Mr Andres.

Why would you want to get rid of me?

Because I celebrated the beginning of a New Year? Is that suspicious?

CountArach

01-01-2008, 22:16

Yes, the Org is more important :wink:

But seriously, you have been acting vastly differently to how you usually do.

Andres

01-01-2008, 22:22

Yes, the Org is more important :wink:

But seriously, you have been acting vastly differently to how you usually do.

That's true. I have been painting, been doing minor repairs and been moving boxes filled with all sorts of stuff from our sold appartement to our newly bought house. I also celebrated Christmas and New Year in between.

Usually, I'm sitting at a desk or walking around with papers trying to look busy and important, picking my nose and making posts at the Org :grin:

Csargo

01-01-2008, 22:30

So, Who should we isolate next dayphase and not give any gifts?

I say we give everyone one present and see what happens.

Charge

01-01-2008, 22:32

I say we give everyone one present and see what happens.
See what? mafia ok in this case - lynched will be the one accordingly to their list btw..

Csargo

01-01-2008, 22:36

See what? mafia ok in this case - lynched will be the one accordingly to their list btw..

I'll explain once the voting phase starts.

Northnovas

01-02-2008, 03:31

I'll explain once the voting phase starts.

Please do because I am still confused on the receiving end of the gifts and the list. The question asked does the list get modified or is it the original from day 1?
It would appear the gift giving protects a limited number rather then trying to eliminate suspected mafia members.
If everyone received a gift it would have to be an even amount for everyone and would take some cooperation and coordination to ensure that happens.

sapi

01-02-2008, 05:15

Sapi, does the Christmas mafia hitlist change or is it the same from the first round when they turned it in. They can change it whenever they want ~:)

sapi

01-02-2008, 06:04

On this night, if not all, the echoes of the wind above the cobblestone streets went some way to drowning out the sound of her swift progress through the air. Swinging her broomstick around a corner, the cloaked woman riding it let out a sigh, and dismounted.

Consulting her map, she turned, identified the right house, and began to mount her broom once again. But it was too late; she had been seen. Peasant Phill stood watching her from his doorway, mouth agape at the dark figure in the sooty cloak standing in his street. He remained that way as she waked up to him, removed the rubber end from her broomstick, and ran him through.

Now safely anonymous, she jumped back on the broom and continued her rounds.

---

Upon waking in time for his afternoon nap, sapi strolled downstairs to find two stockings hanging near his fireplace.

Curious, he opened them both. At first glance, they both contained the same thing - a candy cane, and a small slip of paper - but upon further examination, they were slightly different.

Written on the first was the phrase "9T8 YD8", and on the second, "843 G85".

"What a load of codswallop", he said, chucking the paper in the bin, "I'm too busy for such nonsense".

Sucking on the candy canes, he returned to bed, thoroughly exhausted.

---

The day phase lasts until 1100 GMT tomorrow ~:)

CountArach

01-02-2008, 06:21

REMEMBER PEOPLE - GIVE 1 TO EVERYONE

Give: Ichigo
Give: Kommodus
Give: Charge

Lord Winter

01-02-2008, 06:37

Give: CA
Give: Andres
Give: Draco

Curoiously awaiting your explanation Ichigo,

Ayachuco

01-02-2008, 07:39

Give:Northnovas
Give:Omanes
Give:Lord Winter

Still don't know why this would do anything but only these people left, so only one more person should vote:
FactionHeir
Tiberius
Woad&Fangs

Peasant Phill

01-02-2008, 09:09

I hope this proves my innocence Kommodus ;).

Maybe better this way, the new system required a lot more work and I didn't have that extra time for the moment.

Charge

01-02-2008, 10:24

*Waits Ichigo

I hope this proves my innocence Kommodus ;).
I'm not so sure about this. As it seems for me to be like somebody' independant actions...

Northnovas

01-02-2008, 14:18

Give:FactionHeir
Give:Tiberius
Give:Woad&Fangs

That covers everyone for one gift.

Charge

01-02-2008, 14:30

I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT IS THE REASONING FOR 1 VOTE

Lynched will be townie! No chances for mafioso!

+ if you going to do this, you forgot BSR.

Andres

01-02-2008, 15:06

Give : BSR

Csargo

01-02-2008, 20:13

Alright I guess an explanation is in order. This should tell us who is number one on the mafia's list. Which will give us a good look at what kind of player the mafia is depending on who is lynched. It may seem somewhat farfetched but it makes perfect sense. Hope this explanation helps and you all understand why I suggested it. I just hope that the mafia can't change their list halfway through a round that would be bad. Can you confirm that sapi?

Charge

01-02-2008, 20:50

That idea makes you look innocent and scummy at the same time..
Maybe as you says, or maybe just to lynch one of most 'dangerous' townies, in hope that others will not use it properly;

Though last part about changing makes me go with former. If they can change it now, no way - we gotta to re-vote and isolate one person after discussion.

CountArach

01-02-2008, 21:02

Tratorix

01-02-2008, 21:13

A good plan, far better than just taking another shot in the dark looking for a mafioso. This might actually give us something to base our suspicions off of.

Csargo

01-02-2008, 22:11

That's why I was asking sapi if the mafia could switch their list mid-round. If they can then it's a waste of time, but if not it would be a big help for the town. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Charge

01-02-2008, 22:13

That's why I was asking sapi if the mafia could switch their list mid-round. If they can then it's a waste of time, but if not it would be a big help for the town. I guess we'll find out soon enough.
However if YOU actually mafia, then it's a waste of time in any case - you had 'needed' list long time before..

Csargo

01-02-2008, 22:20

However if YOU actually mafia, then it's a waste of time in any case - you had 'needed' list long time before..

You seem like you're not a big fan of my plan. Seems pretty scummy to me :inquisitive:

Charge

01-02-2008, 22:35

Actually I was fairly sure that this would be what Ichigo was planning. I don't see how it makes him scummy. Sure, we get rid of whoever the Mafia want, which helps to give us a confirmed innocent. On the other hand, as he said, we can analyse the kill closely and then make an educated decision next round.

But if we get the feeling that they have changed their list, then we can take the assumption that they are fairly active, whioch should cut down the list even further.

A good plan, far better than just taking another shot in the dark looking for a mafioso. This might actually give us something to base our suspicions off of.
I can see some linking here between you both - Ichigo adviced, CA started voting with notice, BSR confirmed it without reasonable explanation

Btw activity was mentioned as a scummy behaviour; BSR isn't active by this time, thus judged as innocent by your logic, unlike me. Not active in thread does not means not active at all.

On the other hand, as he said, we can analyse the kill closely and then make an educated decision next round. I'm curious how much we can get from 1 big loss...

It can be just mafia's plan to overtake game ..:inquisitive:

You seem like you're not a big fan of my plan. Seems pretty scummy to meI already noticed greatest rule of mafia games - if you believe to someone, no matter how innocent they may look, you likely to be fooled. Especially to you..:evil:

CountArach

01-02-2008, 22:48

I can see some linking here between you both - Ichigo adviced, CA started voting with notice, BSR confirmed it without reasonable explanation

Btw activity was mentioned as a scummy behaviour; BSR isn't active by this time, thus judged as innocent by your logic, unlike me. Not active in thread does not means not active at all.
Are you suggesting there are a connection between all 3 of us? That would be strange considering how much effort we have all put into trying to organise the town. My original plan (Choosing who to lynch by only leaving 1 person with 0 presents) fell through due to lack of evidence on anyone. So I moved onto the next thing that I thought would benefit the town.

I ask you - if Ichigo were scum, why would he suggest that we organise more efficiently?

I agree with Ichigo that you are more scummy for trying to stifle organisation. Right now though, I want to see what this comes to.

FoS: Charge

FactionHeir

01-02-2008, 22:52

I'm curious why we actually give everyone 1 present if there would be no difference in giving everyone 1, 2, 3, or even no presents.

Tratorix

01-02-2008, 22:58

I'm curious why we actually give everyone 1 present if there would be no difference in giving everyone 1, 2, 3, or even no presents.

There would be no difference. 1 was just a convenient number I guess. :shrug:

Charge

01-02-2008, 23:00

FoS: Charge:stars:

I ask you - if Ichigo were scum, why would he suggest that we organise more efficiently?
I have supported your original plan, but this one seems a bit tricky for me...
...suitable for Ichi and other high experienced mafiosos..

My original plan (Choosing who to lynch by only leaving 1 person with 0 presents) fell through due to lack of evidence on anyone...or just bcs it was an attempt to make you look innocent in our eyes? Evidence can be reached only through discussion, and I'm one of those who tryes to bring this discussion up.

CountArach

01-02-2008, 23:01

I have supported your original plan

it was an attempt to make you look innocent in our eyes
You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

woad&fangs

01-02-2008, 23:03

could someone plz give me another present?

CountArach

01-02-2008, 23:04

Everyone has 1, that is how we are playing it.

I am curious as to why self-preservation is so important to you?

FoS: woad&fangs

Charge

01-02-2008, 23:11

You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole.
Why?
By saying this you only confirm your hidden relationships with Ichigo..

Look, if you are mafioso, do you really have other option than trying to lynch me ? (as killing me will make you and Ichigo very suspicious)
So
FoS: CA
FoS: Ichigo
:kiss2:

each day confuses me more and more...

Everyone has 1, that is how we are playing it.

I am curious as to why self-preservation is so important to you?

FoS: woad&fangsYow! I would Double Fos: CA if I could.
W&F may think that he's possible target for mafia thus want another present (actually I'd like to too)

Lord Winter

01-02-2008, 23:18

I'm curious how much we can get from 1 big loss...

People can still speak after death and the mafia can just kill them tonight anyways. This way instead of having what basicly has been a random lynch we gain more evidence and a confirmed inoccent. Much better then before.

i'm surprised no one brought up ethier of the write ups. The kill by the appearent witch because Peasent Phill found out her idenity and the strange messages from the stocking.

9T8 YD8

843 G85

FactionHeir

01-02-2008, 23:19

The message didn't seem to make much sense to me.
And the witch was just an excuse to night kill Phill.

Numbers: 3 4 5 8 8 8 8 9
Letters: T Y D G
What letters would numbers correspond to?
Number to Letter: C D E H H H H I

Charge

01-02-2008, 23:37

Townies! We need your feedback on that case! ^^^

Numbers: 3 4 5 8 8 8 8 9
Letters: T Y D G
What letters would numbers correspond to?
Number to Letter: C D E H H H H I
hmm.. rebus?

in numbers it seems
9208 2548
843 785

or
ITH YDH
HDC GHE

....
Witch or thing is a variations of one bad role I think..

woad&fangs

01-02-2008, 23:40

Charge hit the nail on the head.
gift: Charge(3)

FoS: Count Arach

Tratorix

01-02-2008, 23:44

Charge hit the nail on the head.
gift: Charge(3)

FoS: Count Arach

I don't understand your reasoning. You feel you are a target for the mafia, so your giving Charge more presents? All you are doing is making sure he can't be lynched.

woad&fangs

01-02-2008, 23:48

I can't give myself presents and I don't think that giving the mafia a free pick of who to kill is a wise descision. I believe for now that Charge is innocent.

Also,
Take: Charge(1)
Give: Northnovas(1)

We can still learn how the mafia is thinking by giving them only a few choices of who to lynch and seeing which of those options they take.

Charge

01-02-2008, 23:50

I don't understand your reasoning. You feel you are a target for the mafia, so your giving Charge more presents? All you are doing is making sure he can't be lynched.
BSR, you seemed before to 'bandwagon' their ideas, now you trying to argue him........:inquisitive:
Give (2) woad&fangs
thanks :bow:

1 gift later to somebody..

CountArach

01-02-2008, 23:51

Why? Someone is going to die, and it seems highly unlikely it is going to be the mafia. We might as well see who the mafia want to kill. We know a townie is going to die, so we might as well get something out of it.

Meh, whatever. Just screw the whole town if you want...

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 00:04

FoS: Woads and Fang

Why protect charge what makes you think he's inoocent? What else do you want to propose in place of CA's system since the old system is only giving us a random lynch. Why give two to charge there has to be another person you thin is innocent. Why do you think Northnovas is innocent to?

Over all this just seems like an effort for you and charge to protect each other and disrupt the strategy of the town.

Scummy, very scummy

woad&fangs

01-03-2008, 00:06

Protect each other from what? the mafia gets to choose who is lynched.

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 00:11

Keeps you away from suspision of constant avoidance.

Still didn't answer the question what do you think the towns best strategy would be?

Charge

01-03-2008, 00:17

My guess is to pick mafiosos through discussion, which we all should begin.
Ichigo suggests very tricky plan to lynch innocent and see what happens...

CountArach

01-03-2008, 00:19

My guess is to pick mafiosos through discussion, which we all should begin.
Ichigo suggests very tricky plan to lynch innocent and see what happens...
You have to think another turn ahead though. This will tell us what kind of people the mafia are. If you don't have enough solid evidence to suggest that someone else is mafia, you seek it out. That is what we are doing.

woad&fangs

01-03-2008, 00:22

Obviously, people should give presents to people they think are innocent and give reasons as too why they think those people are innocent.

I gave a present to Northnovas because I don't think the mafia would let each other have 0 presents in the first round. With 3 meatball votes to throw around it would be silly to not give one to your partner in crime if he didn't already have one.

Charge is promoting discussion. The mafia would probably just sit back and enjoy the fact that they were being handed a completely free choice of who too kill. I also figured that if I gave him some presents that he would return the favor. I don't want to get lynched by the mafia. If I was a mafioso I would not have to worry about only having 1 present in this round.

Charge

01-03-2008, 00:25

I gave a present to Northnovas because I don't think the mafia would let each other have 0 presents in the first round. With 3 meatball votes to throw around it would be silly to not give one to your partner in crime if he didn't already have one.Though accordingly to the list they cannot be bothered if one townie is going to receive 0 as well, but with all this unvoting, risky..

Tratorix

01-03-2008, 00:26

Ichigo suggests very tricky plan to lynch innocent and see what happens...

:wall: It wasn't a very tricky plan. It was quite straightforward. Even with you screwing up Ichigo's idea, a townie will still die. The only way to lynch a mafioso in this game is to make sure they have less presents than anyone else.

The mafia doesn't really choose who to lynch. They have sent in a list, the person highest on that list with the least number of presents is killed. We aren't going to win through random luck here. Giving everyone an equal number of presents lets us gain some information.

woad&fangs

01-03-2008, 00:28

Yes, but now we still will gain some information but I won't die:2thumbsup:

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 00:28

Obviously, people should give presents to people they think are innocent and give reasons as too why they think those people are innocent.

This so far has been resulting in basicly random lynches once again on the mafias term. Infact since theres been multiable people each time, that means that the mafia gets to chose who gets lynched. Meaning that each and every one of the past lynchs are proably inoccent since the mafia gets to chose.

I gave a present to Northnovas because I don't think the mafia would let each other have 0 presents in the first round. With 3 meatball votes to throw around it would be silly to not give one to your partner in crime if he didn't already have one.

But the mafia gets to decide in case of a tie. Which there was one.

Charge is promoting discussion. The mafia would probably just sit back and enjoy the fact that they were being handed a completely free choice of who too kill. I also figured that if I gave him some presents that he would return the favor. I don't want to get lynched by the mafia. If I was a mafioso I would not have to worry about only having 1 present in this round.

If you or I die really dosn't matter since disscusion can countinue in death.The mafia gains no significant advanage in gaining what is basicly another night kill why the town gains depertly needed information.

woad&fangs

01-03-2008, 00:31

take: Charge(2)
take: Northnovas(1)

Charge

01-03-2008, 00:33

Somebody (I think it's Sapi) should clear things about who can kill on nights - Mafia, Town, both ,neither of those (third parties).

take: Charge(2)
take: Northnovas(1)care to explain?

Tratorix

01-03-2008, 00:35

Yes, but now we still will gain some information but I won't die

What does you being alive help? You can still speak while dead.

Charge is promoting discussion.

Is he? i've seen him say we need more discussion, but what has he done to provoke it? Nothing. All he's been doing is saying why we should randomly hand out gifts instead of doing something that could gain us valuable information.

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 00:35

take: Charge(2)
take: Northnovas(1)

:bow:

Charge? want to withdraw your ones on woads and fangs

Csargo

01-03-2008, 00:35

Charge is guilty it's pretty obvious at this point.

Charge

01-03-2008, 00:41

For me it's only pretty obvious my innocence.

Charge? want to withdraw your ones on woads and fangsactually I would like to hear his full explanation on this, but as being dead still allows to post whatever you want,

take: woad&fangs(2)
and I'm not a mafioso to care too much of my own 'life' in this game.

CountArach

01-03-2008, 00:43

Charge is guilty it's pretty obvious at this point.
Yup, especially with that last post.

He withdrew what he has been defending for a while now because w&f withdrew his, the only other person defending that line of action.

Charge

01-03-2008, 00:48

Yup, especially with that last post.

He withdrew what he has been defending for a while now because w&f withdrew his, the only other person defending that line of action.
heh, I withdraw it coz I'm not 100% sure in W&F, and of what I said in that post.

If it wouldn't be against rules, I would suggest you to ask Sapi about my role :whip:

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 00:49

So you have a role?

Charge

01-03-2008, 00:52

Townie role :whip:

CountArach

01-03-2008, 00:52

heh, I withdraw it coz I'm not 100% sure in W&F, and of what I said in that post.

If it wouldn't be against rules, I would suggest you to ask Sapi about my role :whip:
If you aren't 100% sure of him, why did you give him the presents in the first place?

Also, asking the GM about someone's role would sort of defeat the purpose of the game...

Charge

01-03-2008, 00:56

If you aren't 100% sure of him, why did you give him the presents in the first place?

Also, asking the GM about someone's role would sort of defeat the purpose of the game...
I'm not 100% sure on why either..
but I now believe you less than him, as your triple duet with Ichigo and BSR is very scummy. :skull:

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 00:59

Do you mean your a townie or that you have a pro town role. If you have a pro town role could we see a PM?

Charge

01-03-2008, 01:00

Just a simple townie (a bit more suspicious though :), without any PM. Who are you?

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 01:09

okay misunderstood you

Same here

Charge

01-03-2008, 01:32

Charge is guilty it's pretty obvious at this point.
Seems like you sure for 100% I'm guilty. I'm not so sure even of you..
Could that be because you're mafia, thus know for sure I'm town, and know that your active 'comrades in arms' will support you, and hoping that other 'blind' townies will believe that story.? :inquisitive:

Yet I really surprised that discussion is going on about whether I'm innocent or not! I feel like Cheetah now...:sweatdrop:

Lord Winter

01-03-2008, 01:43

In all fairness to Ichigo this is mafia, you can't be a hundered percent certain of someones guilt. You just need to have good reasons that are better then everyone elses.

CountArach

01-03-2008, 01:59

Alright, now Charge you are deflecting attention away from yourself and onto Ichigo and myself. We appear to be guilty to you because we are accusing you of guilt. There seems to be no other reason.

Northnovas

01-03-2008, 05:34

Wow we got a discussion and I did like the theroy of the one present everything even and see what happens. Now I am more confused.:dizzy2:
There is a different strategy then a regular game where people are lynched at random in the first rcouple rounds. I think we put ourselves behind the eight ball on this round with no clear plan.

As for the numbers I don't know if that is a herring but when I look at the numbers 9T8 YD8 843 G85
I think of the vanity plates expressing a message. Like G8 for Great or D8 for date.
Maybe someone can see something looking at it that way.

CountArach

01-03-2008, 06:24

Alright, if we assume that numbers = letters, we can get:

GTB
YDB
BAE
GBS

Andres

01-03-2008, 09:18

I ask you - if Ichigo were scum, why would he suggest that we organise more efficiently?

Meh. That's just WIFOM. Appearing to be the helpful townie is not a bad mafia tactic.

But I must admit, Ichigo's plan isn't a bad one at all.

Charge is fairly new to these games, so I can understand his concern about staying alive. W&F on the contrary, should know better by now. woad&fangs, I gave you a present. Why did you want even more presents? Why is your survival so important?

sapi

01-03-2008, 11:56

The day phase has ended and votes are being counted.

sapi

01-03-2008, 12:09

http://users.on.net/~purdsa/temp/mafiad3.png

Ichigo has been lynched.

The 24 hour night phase has begun, orders to me please ~:)

Charge

01-03-2008, 12:46

That's funny...

However I would like to know though, can they change list mid-round (after his explanation)?

Charge

01-03-2008, 16:49

No other responses...:inquisitive:

This really won't take us anywhere except defeat. What people think about Ichigo's lynch? Especially CA, Ichigo himself and Kommodus and FH, Andres, W&F too...eh?

Andres

01-03-2008, 17:17

It's night.

If I'm not mistaken, you didn't say what you thought of the lynch. Let's start with that, shall we?

Charge

01-03-2008, 17:24

Previous night was pretty hot.

I did say what I think, but I shouldn't do it actually.. Isn't I've said much already? Seems mafia waits 'indoor' discussion about this, and keep mouths shut right now...

Looks like mafia has enormous numbers in this game? Still no comments not from me...

Andres

01-03-2008, 17:39

Well, the way I see it, it would be illogical for the mafia to put a mafioso on top of their list of people to lynch.

So, unless there is some sort of mafia masterplan (but that would be unlikely at this relative early stage of the game), Ichigo is innocent. Unfortunately, he is also dead.

I did say waht I think, but I shouldn't do it actually..

Really? :inquisitive:

The only "opinion" you had after the lynching of Ichigo was

That's funny...

Followed by a question about game mechanics and the constatation that other players didn't have posted yet after the lynch.

CountArach

01-03-2008, 21:50

sapi - can the mafia change their list during the day?

Tiberius of the Drake

01-04-2008, 03:38

whoa. i missed a day whats going on right now.

sapi

01-04-2008, 04:12

sapi - can the mafia change their list during the day?
No; they can PM me an updated list at any time, but it counts as one of their night actions, so it takes effect during the next day phase ~:)

CountArach

01-04-2008, 05:12

No; they can PM me an updated list at any time, but it counts as one of their night actions, so it takes effect during the next day phase ~:)
Alright, that's interesting. Thanks.

sapi

01-04-2008, 13:13

Draco Leman was bored, very bored. So, despite the impending darkness and the possible bad weather, he decided to go for a walk. Feeling slightly better in doing so, he started thinking about the past few days. So many deaths, in their once peaceful town!

So deep in thought was he that he didn't see the green, furry creature standing off to the side of the path, waiting for him. That was a pity, because if he had, he might have been able to keep his heart attached to the rest of his body. As it was, Draco fought and lost a brief struggle with the creature, before becoming another compulsory organ donor.

Cackling, the creature walked off, leaving Draco to die. It kept repeating a phrase, which echoed off into the distance, "there will be no Christmas this year!"

-----

sapi woke to a new dawn as drowsily as he did to the last. Again stumbling downstairs, he reflexively glanced at the fireplace and was somewhat surprised to again find a stocking there.

Looking inside, he found that it contained a large lump of coal, with a note stuck to it. The note read, "Q5H 79D".

"Great", he said, "today both belong in the fire". Tossing them in, sapi walked off to fix breakfast.

Charge

01-04-2008, 13:19

oh well. I was sure Draco was innocent, now it confirmed (assuming it is mafia who kills us).

sapi woke to a new dawn as drowsily as he did to the last. Again stumbling downstairs, he reflexively glanced at the fireplace and was somewhat surprised to again find a stocking there.

Looking inside, he found that it contained a large lump of coal, with a note stuck to it. The note read, "Q5H 79D".Does it mean there only one (order?) now instead of two on the previous night?

Also, Andres, why you didn't reply on my PM..?..

Andres

01-04-2008, 13:38

Also, Andres, why you didn't reply on my PM..?..

Why did you ask me these questions :

Andres, can you answer why you rather inactive in this game? Unlike Brotherhood or Scourge of temil..

Could that be because you are mafioso, which tryes to be Santa,
or because you are Santa, and trying to not to make yourself suspicious for mafia?

in private and not in the thread?

Charge

01-04-2008, 13:50

What you think?

So you're mafioso which tryed to appear as Santa..

FactionHeir

01-04-2008, 14:00

All: 9T8 YD8 843 G85
Numbers: 3 4 5 8 8 8 8 9
Letters: T Y D G
What letters would numbers correspond to?
Number to Letter: C D E H H H H I

Plus this night's info:
All: Q5H 79D
Letters: Q H D
Numbers: 5 7 9
Number to Letter: E G I

All together:
C D D D E E G G H H H H H I I Q T Y

Oh, and a large lump of coal...

Charge

01-04-2008, 14:03

What you FH think about recent events? And about my version that this notes are orders?

Hehe, Andres not answered yet - prooving he's mafia.

FactionHeir

01-04-2008, 14:08

I got no idea who is who, I just collate the info in hopes of someone with more time on their hands (which sounds scummy since I spent about 5 hours at the ORG) can be bothered to analyze them.

The code can mean anything really. Could be pointing at who is the mafia, some hint at how we the town can use gifts to win, or anything else really. I think the lump of coal is significant too.

Andres

01-04-2008, 14:20

Hehe, Andres not answered yet - prooving he's mafia.

I didn't?

I must be getting old :shame: I was really convinced that I already gave an explanation about my "lack of activity"... (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1793705&postcount=99)

And wouldn't it be a bit stupid to tell you if I am Santa or Mafia? If Santa has some useful information, then he will reveal as he sees fit. And a mafia won't tell you that he is mafia... So, what was the point of those questions?

Charge

01-04-2008, 14:38

Andres

01-04-2008, 14:49

I think I did all possible to convince town in my innocence. So you should know it in any case. And if you Santa you should replied.
But you didn't reply - so you likely to be mafioso, why say anything if it can make you even more suspicious?

There's always the possibility that I am just a humble townie.

But you wanted proof? Ok, here it is, my townie pm:

...

...

Eh, hm...

...

Nothing? No pm at all?

Charge

01-04-2008, 14:56

Still not convinced. If you are townie, why you did not reply to pm?

Andres

01-04-2008, 15:53

Still not convinced. If you are townie, why you did not reply to pm?

I preferred to reply in public, as I did in my last posts.

Why didn't you ask your questions in public? Why should I trust you and give you valuable information in private?

Charge

01-04-2008, 16:39

I think I did all possible to convince town in my innocence.
I had some thoughts about you as possible Santa,
and not asked this in thread as mafia will use it, if you are not mafioso yourself. However now it's pretty obvious for me that Andres is guilty, sorta Godfather of this game..
Ichigo is his grunt, looks like mafia tryed plan (Ichigo's plan) with lynching him and making other mafiosos, who supported him, appear to be innocent.

Most likely there are 4 mafiosos, and other 2 are somebody from list below:
BSR, FH, CA, W&F, Kommodus.

BSR actively bandwagoned Ichi's plan, before seemed to be rather inactive;

CA was also supporter of this idea, but also of picking up certain member previously and adviced against protecting Andres. Though he did it not so hard, and it can be another mafia's plan to ensure town think about him without supicion (like GH in Godfather 1 or 2, not remember);

W&F was against Ichi's plan at some point, even FoSed CA (but not Ichigo), then withdrawed without explanation. That bit makes CA appear to be less guilty in my eyes.. + 3 gifts Andres gave him on round 1;

Kommodus is not participating in any discussion, he said it will be limited until 2008 - now it already 2008, where are you then? He also casted gifts upon Ichigo; Peasant Phill, against which Kommodus had some suspicion, appears to be innocent I think (not, if not only mafia can kill on nights)

FH also not so active in finding mafiosos, there is also linking in their gifts to each other...

Lord Winterand Tiberius are also somewhat not so innocent for me so far.

If there are any pro-town roles, who can investigate (confirm) and kill scum, please do so.

Of course I can be mistaken, but I would like to see what it will turn at the end ~:pimp:

But I'm not sure how town can get rid of them, Santa (not sure if he's still alive) can only investigate, as rules says.. Highly recommended to Santa, pm me - only dunces can't believe in my innocence still.
Voting so far gives benefit only to mafiosos....

FactionHeir

01-04-2008, 16:57

Charge

01-04-2008, 17:30

hmmmmm
Lets think about it - now I'm sure that 'thing' 'creature' is a certain mafia member. He's alive for sure.

'Witch' is another mafioso. That doesn't contradict story about two mafiosos...

Also it didn't contradict my story - Andres 'witch creature', Ichigo - 'creature witch'. Though I think there are at least 3 of them.

EDIT: :wall:

FactionHeir

01-04-2008, 17:43

Well Ichigo can't be the creature because the creature just killed Draco.

Kommodus

01-04-2008, 19:22

Ok, let's start by considering the results of Ichigo's experiment.

We are assured that the mafia can't change their list in the middle of the day. However, Ichigo proposed his plan prior to the start of the day 3 phase, so the mafia may have changed their list in response to his proposal, knowing what its effect would be.

The thing is, the fact that Ichigo was the one lynched means that those who supported his plan appear more innocent. (This includes CountArach, Lord Winter, Draco Leman, Northnovas, and Andres.) But a mafioso could (and probably would) support the plan, knowing this.

The main proponent of the plan, besides Ichigo himself, was CountArach. He argued strongly in favor of it, with Charge as his main antagonist. I also think that CA had read Ichi's proposal before the night phase ended, because he says this:

Actually I was fairly sure that this would be what Ichigo was planning.

However, I'm not entirely comfortable with the way CA argued for the plan. For example:

I ask you - if Ichigo were scum, why would he suggest that we organise more efficiently?

A rather illogical and unnecessary defense, I would say.

Then the exchange between Charge and CA heats up:

You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

Yow! I would Double Fos: CA if I could.

...etc.

And... um... I just noticed something strange. Charge, you edited this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1794756&postcount=171) from yesterday. The thing is, I had read the original version of it. I can't quote it, of course, but I remember a part of the original content - you said Ichigo's lynch probably meant that he and CountArach were innocent. That was the part you edited out. :inquisitive:

The question is, why? Did you realize you had stated too clearly the conclusion we were supposed to come to independently? Linking one's self to his mafia partner is a rookie mistake. I'm beginning to think the whole argument between you and CA was just a big charade.

Also, Charge, a number of the statements you've made are patently illogical. For example:

Ichigo is his grunt, looks like mafia tryed plan (Ichigo's plan) with lynching him and making other mafiosos, who supported him, appear to be innocent.

You suggest that Ichigo might be guilty after all because hey, the mafia might get one of their own lynched in order to "prove" the innocence of others. Problems with this include:

A. It would be a terrible plan for the mafia.
B. Why is your target here is Andres, rather than Ichi's other supporters?

I barely need to mention the ridiculous suggestion of 4 mafiosi. With voting working the way it does here, that would really unbalance the game and can be disregarded.

So, FoS: CountArach and Charge

EDIT: Lest I forget:

Give: Andres (1)
Give: Northnovas (1)
Give: woad&fangs (1)

FactionHeir

01-04-2008, 19:38

My question would be how can the town lynch a mafia, i.e. making them have less presents than everyone else?
The best we can achieve is have everyone have 3 presents (i.e. mafia giving their partner their 3 too) which leads to a townie lynch, unless sapi has some hidden rule there.

Charge

01-04-2008, 20:25

OK, thanks for thoughts.

You however stated certain suspicion against me, ..and CA....:inquisitive:

We are assured that the mafia can't change their list in the middle of the day. However, Ichigo proposed his plan prior to the start of the day 3 phase, so the mafia may have changed their list in response to his proposal, knowing what its effect would be.Not only mafia can change, if Ichigo is mafia himself - he is the guy who made the list.

And... um... I just noticed something strange. Charge, you edited this post (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1794756&postcount=171) from yesterday. The thing is, I had read the original version of it. I can't quote it, of course, but I remember a part of the original content - you said Ichigo's lynch probably meant that he and CountArach were innocent. That was the part you edited out. :inquisitive:

The question is, why? Did you realize you had stated too clearly the conclusion we were supposed to come to independently? Linking one's self to his mafia partner is a rookie mistake. I'm beginning to think the whole argument between you and CA was just a big charade.I have said that Ichigo's lynch is meant to appear him and supporters as innocent. However it can be mafia masterplan, and without saying this so early probably could get some useful info..
Very interesting about charade. I can admit charade in W&F's posts about gifts, but our 'discussion' was a bit too risky would we both be mafia.

I barely need to mention the ridiculous suggestion of 4 mafiosi. With voting working the way it does here, that would really unbalance the game and can be disregarded.And you realized that their numbers cant affect game more than 2 (each other gives 3 presents to each other - they cant be lynched; 6 - same).

A. It would be a terrible plan for the mafia.Assuming there are only 2 mafiosos. Doubt. numbers aren't that important on voting.

B. Why is your target here is Andres, rather than Ichi's other supporters?Andres was suspicion mainly because he didn't reply on pm, and more. Why you protecting him?

FoS: Kommodus
FoS: Andres
FoS: Woad&fangs

Another possibility.

Sapi hadn't said much about roles, rules as well I think. Very confusing how to determine and neutralize mafioso..

Csargo

01-04-2008, 20:32

Andres was suspicion mainly because he didn't reply on pm, and more. Why you protecting him?

Why did you PM him? Do you think he would really tell you if he was? You're digging yourself into a bigger and bigger hole.

Charge

01-04-2008, 20:44

Why did you PM him? Do you think he would really tell you if he was? You're digging yourself into a bigger and bigger hole.Why? to see and analyze how guilty he is. And do I really seems mafioso still with all this statements??? You ain't going to change my opinion about you with such posts.

CountArach

01-04-2008, 22:20

I'm a little busy right now, but I will also say that Charge has PMed me asking about the following people (I asked sapi if I could quote it, but he said that he would prefer if I only paraphrased it):

Andres - because he thought that Andres was hinting that he was Santa in one of the posts. I replied that I thought that Andres would've been more active if he had such a role. Out of interest Andres, when did he send you that message? because it could well be after I sent him my reply.
Woad&Fangs - He didn't give any reason, he just asked for my thoughts. I remained suitably tight-lipped.

Then he suggested we follow the following list:
1. Andres
2. W&F
3. Ichigo
4. FactionHeir

Then stated he had no idea about Kommodus, Peasent Phill and Omanes.

woad&fangs

01-04-2008, 23:02

Gift: Factionheir(1), Lord Winter(1), BSR(1)

I think that either Charge or Count Arach are a mafioso. I'm not sure which I'd rather lynch though.

I thought that the give everyone one present idea was kind of silly. My thinking was that we could protect players we believe to be valuable or the most innocent but still get an idea of the mafia's personality by who they lynch out of the options we gave them. That is why I opposed the idea. I was also being selfish. I've died early in several games in a row and I wanted to last a bit longer in this one. I gave Charge presents because I he was also against the idea and I figured that if I gave him presents than he would give me presents. However, Charge kept seeming scummier and scummier as the day wore on and I decided that I should just be glad that I helped to cause a lot of discussion that could be used to analize players and that I should just accept Ichigo's idea instead of casting my lot in with someone that I was getting highly suspicious of.

That's my explanation of my actions from the last day phase.

Charge

01-04-2008, 23:07

However, Charge kept seeming scummier and scummier as the day wore onAnd why I looks scummy?

Out of interest Andres, when did he send you that message?day ago

FactionHeir

01-04-2008, 23:20

Gift: Tiberius, Omanes, kommodus

[edit]
Anyone else finding Omanes rather quiet?

Csargo

01-05-2008, 00:20

Why? to see and analyze how guilty he is. And do I really seems mafioso still with all this statements??? You ain't going to change my opinion about you with such posts.

Asking him doesn't accomplish anything as far as I'm concerned. I don't understand how you could. Yes. I'm dead so it doesn't matter if I was mafia or not I can't do anything but discuss.

I'm a little busy right now, but I will also say that Charge has PMed me asking about the following people (I asked sapi if I could quote it, but he said that he would prefer if I only paraphrased it):

That's pretty strange because he seemed to believe both of us were guilty last round.

Charge

01-05-2008, 00:34

I believed CA was townie from his earlier actions, and I believe I was able to gain some info from Andres' reply which he decided not to give (perfect choice for mafioso).

do I saw 2nd time pming between Ichigo and FH?

Can anyone say why I seems scummy other than just casting suspicion on him?
Looks like mafiosos voted, hmm, ok town going to lose its most active contributor....

FactionHeir

01-05-2008, 00:39

I think you are getting somewhat paranoid now. The Gameroom is not the only place I'm active in and there are some issues in the Throne Room that currently needs PM attention.

Charge

01-05-2008, 00:48

:laugh4:
they was just at strangely same time..

FactionHeir

01-05-2008, 00:49

Hmmmm I just had a stroke of genius while under the shower and know how we can lynch the mafia.
I'll reveal once the time is right. Note that even if I get killed, I can still talk about it.

And I think Charge is getting scummier by the second. He now even set his status to invisible.

Charge

01-05-2008, 00:53

And I think Charge is getting scummier by the second. He now even set his status to invisible.What exactly I'm doing so you think I'm scum (how the hell can I be scum??).
That was in hope that Santa will show at least some rationality and pmed me..

CountArach

01-05-2008, 01:00

Why is it so important for you to get in contact with Santa? You have NO proof that you are Innocent, none at all. Why should Santa trust you?

Charge

01-05-2008, 01:08

woad&fangs

01-05-2008, 01:36

Okay, I think that Charge should be the one to be lynched. Lets try to make sure that everyone except Charge gets presents.

Have Presents
Tiberius
Omanes
Kommodus
Andres
Woad&Fangs
Lord Winter
Northnovas
Factionheir
BSR

Need Presents
Count Arach
Needs a Lynching
Charge

CountArach

01-05-2008, 01:43

Give: BSR

Can you take the one you gave to BSR and give it to me so that Charge is lynched? We should also watch to see if someone does give Charge one, because they may be scum-buddies.

woad&fangs

01-05-2008, 02:17

Take: BSR(1), Give: CountArach(1)
There we go.

Csargo

01-05-2008, 02:36

No proof at all?? :wall:
No one beliefs me! how is that possible? is it really only mafia active and town fuly lurks?
OK, I can't help town if town keep thinking about me as scum, gonna see its faces after end of the game though..

:stars:

The fact that you PMed people and asked them if they were Santa is enough of a reason for you to be scummy and deserve to be lynched. Not to mention all the other things you've done. Santa would reveal when he is ready, if he doesn't have anything then he won't reveal. You're trying to force his hand which is pretty scummy.

Tratorix

01-05-2008, 04:19

Not quite sure about Charge. It's suspicious that he's been throwing accusations around like he has, but I think he might just be a well meaning(but misguided) townie. Still, can't take the chance, so lynch him.

sapi

01-05-2008, 05:18

I think there are only 2 mafia. 4 would be vastly imbalanced.
Why 2? Because sapi said that modifying their list would count as one of their actions and they still kill someone each night. So they normally have 2 actions and so far have modified their list every night.
Sorry, you misinterpreted that. The mafia have a set number of night kills, but they could also change the list if they wished. It's not a choice between one and the other :bow:

To those questioning the rules, all I'll say is that I have told the town everything it needs to win, and that doing so is not impossible ~:)

The rules, as posted, are in this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1790424&postcount=21) post.

Csargo

01-05-2008, 06:09

So that confirms I'm innocent.

FactionHeir

01-05-2008, 11:45

I think even though Charge seems scummy, he is being overly desperate to the extent that he is more a townie.
I say we lynch CA.

And according to sapi's rule post, it seems to be Santa that is giving us those code hints.

Charge

01-05-2008, 12:31

To those questioning the rules, all I'll say is that I have told the town everything it needs to win, and that doing so is not impossible ~:)Nope, it is exactly impossible. Town is too stupid to believe me, and leaded by mafia like herd of rams.

Santa is dead. It is obvious. How the hell he can't investigate me and be convinced in my ****ing innocence? If he's got something then he could reveal it via me and not himself, but he's dead already. Or utterly stupid.

Crushing mafia victory.

FactionHeir

01-05-2008, 12:46

Santa is still alive. Otherwise we wouldn't be receiving code still.

FactionHeir

01-05-2008, 12:58

On further inspection, I believe that the lump of coal means "guilty". The question that remains is what Q5H 79D stands for. IMO most likely who Santa investigated and found to be guilty.

Also, the numbers might not directly mean letters. So far they have been either single digit or above 26, so he's trying to convey something using 1-9.

Charge

01-05-2008, 13:14

So 2 stockings after n2 was his investigations of n1 and n2..

sapi

01-05-2008, 14:25

Voting over, stand by for tally.

http://users.on.net/~purdsa/temp/mafiad4.png

Charge has been lynched. It is now the night phase, orders to me please ~:)

Charge

01-05-2008, 14:30

*sigh

Sapi waited however :) ...

Andres

01-05-2008, 18:52

CA talks alot. A bit unusual...

:inquisitive:

CountArach

01-05-2008, 20:56

CA talks alot. A bit unusual...

:inquisitive:
Yes I am aware of that, but I finished school and this is holidays. I don't go to University until March :balloon:

sapi

01-06-2008, 13:43

It was only a few hours since Andres had given up puzzling out the events of the past few days, and yet already he was sleeping soundly in his upstairs bedroom. However, what he never was was a sound sleeper, and perhaps it was that which caused him to hear the noises coming from his living room.

Whatever brought it to his attention, it was not long before a drowsy Andres was leaning on the door of his living room, staring at the scene unfolding before him. Squinting to see through the darkness, lit only by the light of the moon, he could make out a woman in a dark shawl crouched by his Christmas tree, arranging what appeared to be neatly wrapped presents.

Groggily, he rubs his eyes, sure that what he is seeing must be some sort of a mistake, but it remains. Indeed, as he does so, the figure abruptly turns around and sees him there. "Nessuno possono vederli!", it shrieks, snatching its broomstick (which up until that point had been propped up against the wall) and hurrying up to Andres.

Wordlessly, it proceeded to beat him senseless. Once it was abundantly clear that Andres would not be rising again, the shawled figure jumped on its broomstick, and proceeded to fly straight out the window. As it faded from sight, words appeared to drift off behind it in the still night air, "La Befana vien di notte..."

-----

This time, when he got up in the morning sapi walked into his living room with a sense of expectation, and as predicted, there was another stocking hanging from his fireplace. Wandering over, he stuck his hand inside, and extracted the candy cane and note that had been hiding within.

That tradition complete, he stuck the candy cane in his mouth, and tossed the note in the bin, where it landed face up. A careful onlooker would almost have been able to read the scribbled characters on the front, "W3H QJ9"

FactionHeir

01-06-2008, 14:17

Both mafia still alive, one a witch, one a leprechaun with heart?

Still can't make much sense of the code.

Totals:
9T8 YD8 843 G85 [Lump of Coal] Q5H 79D W3H QJ9

Note Andres was killed after he was contacted by Charge asking whether he was Santa and after Andres cast suspicion onto CA.

Charge

01-06-2008, 14:35

I have nothing to do with mafia dammit! When you will lynch all (better to say will not bother to contradict mafiosos from lynching townies) and host will reveal all roles you gonna see it! Do you think I would lie THAT MUCH now???
:no:

Sapi, can Santa investigate dead player? (me), and what is his %? EDIT: though better investigate CA in this situation first..,and share it in private with those townies which he already investigated.

Andres is ok (:wall:), why you always seems so scummy to me ?

Originally posted by Ichigo
So that confirms I'm innocent.Out of curiosity, how it can confirm you as innocent?

FactionHeir

01-06-2008, 14:39

I didn't say you were guilty. I said Andres was killed after being asked by you whether he was Santa, suggesting the actual mafia may have believed you in a way in that regard.
Also, Andres questioned CA, so either CA is guilty or someone is trying to frame him. Or maybe both.

woad&fangs

01-06-2008, 15:32

gift: Factionheir(1)
I think the other mafioso is supposed to be the Grinch from the Dr. Seuss book "How the Grinch Stole Christmas"

Should we lynch CA this round?

Charge

01-06-2008, 15:37

why they should believe you? You lynched me, so I'd rather for town to not listen to you until you confirmed as innocent. Or proove it now, if you can..

I didn't say you were guilty.
but you stated it before, "getting scummier by the second", and calmly watched my execution...

Again, why they lynched me? who my scum-buddies is would I be mafia? They haven't said anything about it, bcs their only task was my lynch. Mafiosos knows for sure my belonging to town, don't they? and killing me will make them appear not as good as now.
How you cant see that it was FORCED lynch? A bit too sure for townies whom to lynch..

so I advice to santa to investigate them both (CA, W&F), other than that cant do anything...
On lynching this day, not sure, I cant see guilty for sure persons now, and again somebody suggesting to lynch other one WITHOUT facts probably mafioso.

Northnovas

01-06-2008, 23:31

Do we have a new strategy for elimination with the gifts? I can't make out the codes yet but I see we are keeping to an Italian Christmas theme.
"Nessuno possono vederli!"
Nobody can see them.
So we found out the witches name:
"La Befana vien di notte..."
Befana looks like a friendly witch, with a mole on her face and in tattered clothes. She flies on a broom and goes down the chimneys to deliver gifts to all the children.
Deciding who to gift too.

Kommodus

01-07-2008, 00:04

Should we lynch CA this round?

:yes:

For reasons, see my post last round (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1796089&postcount=196). Also, Holmes indicates a pretty high probability of his guilt.

So, for my gifts:

Give: Factionheir (1)
Give: Tiberius (1)
Give: Omanes (1)

EDIT: Fixed link

Charge

01-07-2008, 00:12

Also, Holmes indicates a pretty high probability of his guilt.Man, what probablity of mine guilt? :D. I assume you would say 'high', it's likely bcs you're mafioso though (admit it finally :yes:), otherwise Holmes is getting old :)

Why Holmes not bothering to explain his gifts?..

Not protecting CA, but it sounding like another force-lynch..

woad&fangs

01-07-2008, 00:12

gift: Kommodus(1), Northnovas(1)

Tratorix

01-07-2008, 00:17

Gift: Lord Winter(1), Andres(1)

Lynch CA. :yes:

woad&fangs

01-07-2008, 00:29

Take: Factionheir(1), Gift: BSR(1)

FactionHeir

01-07-2008, 00:35

Gift: woad

I'm somewhat cautious though as no one seems to be actively protecting CA with gifts. Even if the mafia were to oust themselves by openly gifting each other, they could stay alive indefinitely that way...
So there is a possibility that CA might not be mafia but someone else.

CountArach

01-07-2008, 00:37

:yes:

For reasons, see my post last round (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1796144&postcount=198). Also, Holmes indicates a pretty high probability of his guilt.

So, for my gifts:

Give: Factionheir (1)
Give: Tiberius (1)
Give: Omanes (1)
You quoted the wrong one, it is actually this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1796089&postcount=196) post you are referring to.

Well I can't really argue against that post because it comes with the pre supposition that if Charge were guilty he would make me look guilty as well. Nevertheless, I can help the town after death, so I shall take the lynching. Who needs presents?

EDIT: As for the results form Holmes, I have already explained this by being on holidays, having finished school for good in November and waiting until March for University. I also have no job to occupy myself with.

Lord Winter

01-07-2008, 00:40

Kommodus seems lower key then usual and I'm not sure if I quite buy his reasoning.

FoS: Kommodus

Just something to keep in mind in the next round.

Charge

01-07-2008, 01:20

I'm more and more convinced that Arach isnt guilty, FH either..
CA isnt resist lynching (or hopes that..?), FH talking right, but he at the same time gives gift to Woad, who as far as I concerned, candidate #1 for investigation...
Kommodus seems suspicious as well.
Tiberius is ok probably (at least he casted gifts upon innocents, from what I can recall),
Omanes - hmmm, he's around here but I cant remeber his last post ..However lurking isn't scummy behaviour in situation then mafiosi should be active to ensure they aint going to be lynched.
If you still not believe me, not listen then, or will think they're all guilty as well :dizzy2:
Very big FoS: Kommodus, woad&fangs

also, if Kommodus guilty, then his suggestion about 2 mafiosos would be probalby misleading (as town thinks there only two of them, 3rd appear as innocent..)

Northnovas

01-07-2008, 01:22

Gifts received
Kommodus 1
Andres 1
NN 1
Omanes 1
Lord W 1
FH 1
W&F 1
BSR 1
Tiberus 1
CA 0

I am not sure on CA guilt so I am going to go on the original theory of everyone getting one gift and I will

Give: CA

I feel that CA could be innocent. I would like to see what happens this round with everyone even.

Kommodus

01-07-2008, 02:11

You quoted the wrong one, it is actually this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1796089&postcount=196) post you are referring to.

Oops, thanks. :embarassed: I'll have to go back and edit to fix that.

EDIT: As for the results form Holmes, I have already explained this by being on holidays, having finished school for good in November and waiting until March for University. I also have no job to occupy myself with.

I'm using a newer metric this time, one that was added just prior to Reign of Terror and employed in that game. The details are going to have to remain secret at this point. People can choose to trust me or not - up to them. ~;)