View Full Version : Creative Assembly Will You Buy a SecuRomed Empire?
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-07-2008, 22:09
UPDATE: It has been announced here will be no SecuROM in Empire: Total War - it will use the Steam system. Good job by Creative Assembly, and I will now in all probability purchase the game.
Simple question. If Empire: Total War comes with SecuRom, or similar copy protection, under the presumption it is never released with a removal tool and is similar to SecuRom or StarForce.
Will you still buy it?
The purpose of this poll is both for my own interest and to show CA and Sega our opinions.
Note that CA has not yet confirmed if SecuROM will be included in Empire, but they have stated that SecuROM or alternate copy protection will be.
Didn't such a thread exist already in this forum?
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-07-2008, 22:31
I think so, but it wasn't a poll.
Mikeus Caesar
01-07-2008, 22:34
Polls make everything cool.
Except AIDS. Not cool at all.
I think so, but it wasn't a poll.
Actually, it was a poll showing opinions.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-07-2008, 22:52
Hmm, I didn't think it was. Well, maybe now that it's been thoroughly discussed in the M2TW forums some opinions will have changed.
woad&fangs
01-07-2008, 23:01
no:no:
Matt_Lane
01-07-2008, 23:22
I've gotta say I'm stoked about ETW and I can't wait for it to hit the shelves. However the one big, big, big fly in my ointment is SecuRom. I was constantly on the Total War web page during the build up to Kingdoms but the SecuRom fiasco has so far put me off from buying a copy. I reckon like a true TW junkie I'll eventually give in and pick up a copy but so far I've been holding out until I see it cheaper enough to justify infecting my machine. I really don't want this stuff in my system but I suppose once I'm hooked I might not be so bothered by the copy protection on ETW so the honest answer is that yes I'll probably still buy it and then bitch about it later on these very pages.
:laugh4:
Sorry but this is laughable.
What good is a copy protection if you deliver it with a removal tool? :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Hidden folders are also really scary (hint: Windows has some :laugh4: )
And I'm really surpried that the game is not supposed to be playable without the copy protection, that sounds as if they try to stop people from copying it. :laugh4:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-08-2008, 00:14
Ubisoft released some patches that removed StarForce after the fact, to my knowledge. This poll operates on the presumption that CA will not.
RoadKill
01-08-2008, 01:01
OHH MMYY LOOORRDDD!!!!
STOP WITH THESE DAMN THREADS!!!
Simple question. If Empire: Total War comes with SecuRom, or similar copy protection, under the presumption it is never released with a removal tool and is similar to SecuRom or StarForce.
The particular version of SecuRom in Kingdoms does not bother me, so the answer would be yes.
But if it is StarForce, or similar then no.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-08-2008, 01:23
OHH MMYY LOOORRDDD!!!!
STOP WITH THESE DAMN THREADS!!!
Just curiosity. Relax.
Ubisoft released some patches that removed StarForce after the fact, to my knowledge. This poll operates on the presumption that CA will not.
The evil about StarForce is not just that it has hidden folders, it can make optical drives deteriorate and become useless, if SecuROM did that as well I wouldn't buy SecuROM games but so far I haven't heard anyone claim that it does. SecuROM is not StarForce.
Alexander the Pretty Good
01-08-2008, 03:02
I don't know. I do know that I haven't purchased Kingdoms at least partially due to the DRM stuff. Ultimately, I think it would depend on how virulent such protection software was and how good Empires actually is judged by people here.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-08-2008, 03:19
The evil about StarForce is not just that it has hidden folders, it can make optical drives deteriorate and become useless, if SecuROM did that as well I wouldn't buy SecuROM games but so far I haven't heard anyone claim that it does. SecuROM is not StarForce.
What I meant by "hidden folders" was more that it hides the install from you than that the folders are simply hidden by default.
Yes, and when you install Windows it also creates folders that are hidden by default. Are you using Linux or a Mac because of that? :inquisitive:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-08-2008, 03:29
Yes, and when you install Windows it also creates folders that are hidden by default. Are you using Linux or a Mac because of that? :inquisitive:
No, but the Windows install folders are not my definition of malicious or invasive software.
Whether I am buying Empire or not depends entirely on battlefield and campaign AI, which has to be better than the ones for RTW and MTW2, and in that case they can put whatever securom they wish. Will remove it manually later.
hellenes
01-08-2008, 08:25
Whether I am buying Empire or not depends entirely on battlefield and campaign AI, which has to be better than the ones for RTW and MTW2, and in that case they can put whatever securom they wish. Will remove it manually later.
There is only one way to have better "AI": restrict the players' controls...
Otherwise is to have an online/LAN campaign...
Rodion Romanovich
01-08-2008, 09:46
Voted undecided. I don't generally like more software installs, especially non-removable ones. I wouldn't mind plugging in some USB-thing every time I play a game as a form of copy protection, but software installs, if anywhere close to how dangerous starforce apparently has been reported to be, aren't very appreciated.
The difference between hidden folders in Windows OS and in a product like SecuRom is that the former hides them, as do MAC OS, other UNIX types and Linux by the way for convenience and security purposes. SecuRom and other copy protection software on the other hand hide them in much the same was as spyware or malware would: In order that the process and it's binaries be invisible to the end user.
I voted no, but that doesn't matter as CA ignore polls. I thought Everyone knew that by now.
ElectricEel
01-08-2008, 13:12
Deleted
Undecided. On the one hand, I love me some Total War. On the other hand, I despise SecuRom. It has caused me major headaches on two recent legally (take notice, CA, it causes problems for your CUSTOMERS, not the pirates) purchased games, including the need to buy a new DVD drive. I'll know which one wins out on release day.
The difference between hidden folders in Windows OS and in a product like SecuRom is that the former hides them, as do MAC OS, other UNIX types and Linux by the way for convenience and security purposes. SecuRom and other copy protection software on the other hand hide them in much the same was as spyware or malware would: In order that the process and it's binaries be invisible to the end user.
Yeah, that's for security reasons, otherwise they could just offer an uninstall button next to a "burn a copy for all your friends" button, I thought that was the idea behind copy protection, to make it harder for the average joe to copy games. Now if you find out it send packages with information to Sony or Sony can remote control your PC using it or that it destroys hardware or other software, I'd agree that it's malicious but I haven't heard such things about SecuROM yet and that's why I can't understand that people just say it's malicious because it's hard to find/remove. :dizzy2:
Ethelred Unread
01-08-2008, 16:41
I've got Kingdoms on my laptop and desktop and haven't had any problems with securerom so far so I voted YES!
Yeah, that's for security reasons, otherwise they could just offer an uninstall button next to a "burn a copy for all your friends" button, I thought that was the idea behind copy protection, to make it harder for the average joe to copy games. Now if you find out it send packages with information to Sony or Sony can remote control your PC using it or that it destroys hardware or other software, I'd agree that it's malicious but I haven't heard such things about SecuROM yet and that's why I can't understand that people just say it's malicious because it's hard to find/remove. :dizzy2:
SecuRom has had it's own CD authentication issues with popular titles such as FEAR and the Sims2, runs and installs a Win32 service on your system even if you're logged in as a limited user account (malware) and is effectively trojan or rootkit like in it's operation.
If you like surrendering your PC over to this kind of software then why don't you just disable your firewall and go and visit a few dodgy warez or pr0n sites with IE, you can get a lot of similar software for free. :beam:
Also you've hit the nail on the head when you said that this copy protection is designed to stop the "average joe" from making a copy for his mates and is not designed to deter the real software pirates. I find it disappointing though that you can support this kind of software. I take it also that if you had two PCs in your house and wanted to play TW with a friend over the lan using the same copy, that you'd gladly pay twice for this game? To the letter of the law? I hope you don't record radio broadcasts or TV programs either. And if you find Bill Gates' wallet in the street I expect you to hand it back to him with not a moth out of place. :yes:
I'm a firm believer in that you should install on your own PC what you want and only that. If a game requires a hidden copy protection program then that protection should be listed in the system requirements as is DirectX, windows version or any platfrom specifics. The fact that these companies can get away with this and that some people still will accept (and sometimes support) it so readily even if they know it's there, is a sign of the times. Sooner or later this software will get more and more invasive and restrictive. The problem with piracy is the wide proliferation of cracked copies over the .net via p2p networks and warez sites and not "average joe" burning a sly copy for his cousin "average john".
You're making a few assumptions there, SecuROM is not the only protection that doesn't allow you to play the game with a friend, I remember trying to play Operation Flashpoint on two computers and getting all sorts of errors(the way the copy protection is claimed to work) on the second install, but I do not remember any big outrage about the copy protection of the game, the outrage seems to be a sign of the times as well. :dizzy2:
And yes, I would obviously like to be able to do that, but in theory Communism is also great and all people are equal though for some reason it never really worked. So in theory no copy protection would be great but in reality, most people would still get illegal copies, maybe not many more than today but Publishers keep trying to prevent those who pirate today from pirating in the future which IMO is their right unless it goes as far as spying on me or destroying my property(StarForce and whatever can come by turning off the firewall count into this).
What makes malware malware is the malicious intent, isn't it? Now where exactly is the malicious intent of SecuROM? the purpose is to stop illegal activities and it does so far not really harm normal customers, I had some problems installing games before but then a new DVD ROM usually solvesd that and I have to say I had unknowingly used the old drive with StarForce games which may well have been the cause for those problems.
I just don't really see what StarForce destroys, except inviting your friend to play on your second computer(though I thought that is usually prohibited by the game itself when it checks the serial numbers of both clients), but then if I could afford a second computer.... ~;)
We've already been down this road many times Husar. Some of the reasons why this DRM is malware is listed in the Securom thread in the Citadel, I know I've told you dozens of times in the chat what else it does, and you can always Google for additional information. And the whole "It doesn't bother me therefore it's fine hurf durf!" is rather ignorant, to try and put it nicely (yes, that's the nice way of saying it). If it's on your machine, it can and will do Bad Things© and in certain situations can be greatly exacerbated, and can (in this case does) present a very real security exposure to your system and your personal information. This is like those people who argue that Starforce has "never done anything to them because they don't notice it". Ignorance does not equal bliss certainly does not mean that real damage hasn't occured.
Yet again, all this coming from someone who was arguing with me as to why they should put their PC behind a firewall/nat router, someone who ran Vista almost since launch on the raw Internetknowing FULL well MS's wonderful track record for releasing bug-free OS's. :smash:
I'm sure you know that most of this is said tongue-in-cheek, but I am also serious. I don't want people to get the wrong impression about what this DRM really is and what it actually does. There's a difference between protecting one's investments and invading another's privacy. Publishers have a right to protect their investments, but like anything is subject to limitations. Securom and Starforce go well beyond what is reasonable to a good majority of us, and also to those of us who are in the IT Security profession (which I am) as well if you read about it.
You may be right Whacker (though my memory has holes concerning our chat about SecuROM), but isn't it interesting how almost none of what you say is in the OP? :inquisitive:
All I was asking for was a decent reason to hate or avoid SecuROM, similar to the reasons you gave me to avoid StarForce, the OP certainly didn't provide any IMO. Now I think I'll be off to play some Kingdoms. ~;)
WHACKER LIVES!!!! I voted undecided.
Doug-Thompson
01-08-2008, 18:48
Well, at least now I know why my optical drives keep failing.
Voted undecided as it'll be based upon the protection used at the time of release. Perhaps because at one time I was in the industry, I actually do own multiple copies of games that me and my friends play at my house on the network. At the same time, I generally rig things so I don't need CD's in drives as I dislike swapping them out all the time. (I've found that manufacturers are more than willing to sell you replacement CD's, but tend to refuse to replace a damaged one for free.) As such, it generally ends with 'how far' is the manufacturer willing to go to protect their game. There is definately a line that I will go up to and then no further, regardless of my interest in the game.
You're making a few assumptions there, SecuROM is not the only protection that doesn't allow you to play the game with a friend, I remember trying to play Operation Flashpoint on two computers and getting all sorts of errors(the way the copy protection is claimed to work) on the second install, but I do not remember any big outrage about the copy protection of the game, the outrage seems to be a sign of the times as well. :dizzy2:
I've made no assumptions, nor did I state that SecuRom was the only copy protection of that kind. I'm well aware of safedisc, starforce and all the rest.
And yes, I would obviously like to be able to do that, but in theory Communism is also great and all people are equal though for some reason it never really worked. So in theory no copy protection would be great but in reality, most people would still get illegal copies, maybe not many more than today but Publishers keep trying to prevent those who pirate today from pirating in the future which IMO is their right unless it goes as far as spying on me or destroying my property(StarForce and whatever can come by turning off the firewall count into this).
You're going off on a tangent, leave the political analogies out of it. You seem to be a subscriber to a certain ideology whereby paying, being spied on and accepting your lot is all part of being a good capitalist and then you are overcome with admiration when you hear of the big corporations' schemes to rip you off, whereas getting something free, getting a good deal and buying software that has value for money, isn't full of invasive malware is somehow wrong. A few years back many games had a facility where 1 CD would allow a few multiplayer clients to use it. This means not having to buy a CD for each PC if you want to play against someone on a LAN. ID Software's games were heavily pirated but had hardly any copy protection at all. You can install most of them on Linux and all you need is a CD key and the pak files from the CDs. The CD doesn't need to be in the drive at all. Despite this, and despite releasing the source for their older titles, ID haven't gone out of business but have pretty much gone from strength to strength. Generally this is because those that acquired the pirate versions would never have bought the retail version anyway, and for some of those that did download pirate versions there is a good chance that they went on to buy retail versions if they liked the game enough. ID always releasing playable demos of their early games probably had something to do with it as well. Generally if a game is good people will rush out and buy it, if a game is a buggy pile of crap that people want to play test before they part with their money the "try before you buy" piracy comes int it.
What makes malware malware is the malicious intent, isn't it? Now where exactly is the malicious intent of SecuROM? the purpose is to stop illegal activities and it does so far not really harm normal customers, I had some problems installing games before but then a new DVD ROM usually solvesd that and I have to say I had unknowingly used the old drive with StarForce games which may well have been the cause for those problems.
Malware http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malware as described in wikipedia (we can rely on it here as we're not talking history or politics) is sotware that infiltrates or damages without user consent. Considering that SecuRom is not installed with the users consent and installs a Win32 service without administrative permissions, that makes SecuRom, like starforce, malware in my book.
Securom doesn't stop illegal activities it prevents legitimate customers from making backups, requires the disc to be in the drive when the game is launched and pirates will pretty much always crack and distribute the games eventually anyway. It is you "average joe" that is inconvenienced, you that paid for the game and you that is being treated like a thief from the moment you try to install.
I just don't really see what StarForce destroys, except inviting your friend to play on your second computer(though I thought that is usually prohibited by the game itself when it checks the serial numbers of both clients), but then if I could afford a second computer.... ~;)
Depends on the game, some games publishers are anal about that, whereas many others are not. Personally I don't see what's wrong with allowing the user to install the same disc on two pcs in their own home. To me that doesn't count as illegal copying. As to what starforce "destroys" that's not the issue here, though it will probably contribute to wearing out your optical drive, the issue is the installation of hidden malware, that is both pointless and potentially dangerous. The majority won't know this is installed at all. It will be interesting to see if there will be any issues with the version on the ETW disc. The track record for this type of software has not been good so far.
Mouzafphaerre
01-10-2008, 12:42
.
No, never, definitely not! :rtwno: And I'll do my best for other people not to buy it either, wherever my word counts. :yes:
When all these three conditions are met, I'll consider buying it depending on its quality:
It will come clean, without any invasive or malicious software;
Customers of Kingdoms will be offered the option to get rid of the malicious Securom, or at least a clean Kingdoms version will be released;
Kingdoms and MiNO will be properly patched.
.
IrishArmenian
01-10-2008, 16:09
I am very uncomfortable with nothing but a hard copy, so I'll just buy Empire the normal, safer way.
Ramses II CP
01-10-2008, 16:31
My baseline assumption is no. I'm considering purchasing Kingdoms because CA has agreed to release a patch and because I feel comfortable going through with the known, unofficial procedure to fully remove the version of SecuRom it contains, but there is no way to predict what version will come with Empire or what new violations it will contain.
Let me be clear that I wouldn't steal it either. Refusing malware doesn't mean being a pirate.
:egypt:
Barbarian
01-10-2008, 17:15
It will be a hard decision. Undecided yet.
However, those, who have Kingdoms, already have the SecuRom on their machines. So, will buying empires change anything at all?
Mailman653
01-11-2008, 18:32
I'll still buy the game even if it came with a monkey and a crowbar.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-13-2008, 17:23
You may be right Whacker (though my memory has holes concerning our chat about SecuROM), but isn't it interesting how almost none of what you say is in the OP? :inquisitive:
All I was asking for was a decent reason to hate or avoid SecuROM, similar to the reasons you gave me to avoid StarForce, the OP certainly didn't provide any IMO. Now I think I'll be off to play some Kingdoms. ~;)
Well, sorry. Really, the SecuRom issue has been debated constantly. I gathered that most people would know what it was, which it seems that most people do.
I wouldn't even buy it if it did NOT have copy protection, let alone if it WILL have. I would STEAL it..... from the store of course :P
FactionHeir
01-16-2008, 22:51
For those who haven't been following the SecuROM thread at the Citadel, these posts summarize it well in a nutshell:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1673814&postcount=232
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1756546&postcount=383
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1675544&postcount=253
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1675187&postcount=249
Bravedude
01-17-2008, 01:29
For those who haven't been following the SecuROM thread at the Citadel, these posts summarize it well in a nutshell:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1673814&postcount=232
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1756546&postcount=383
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1675544&postcount=253
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1675187&postcount=249
I was wondering why no one had posted links yet.
No, but the Windows install folders are not my definition of malicious or invasive software.
Right you are. You have to get updates for the malicious software. Free of charge! :yes:
And no. If Empire has any DRM more complex than a cd check, I won't be getting it. I've gotten enough games with this crap on it, and while it doesn't cause me any problems particularly, I payed more for my computer than I payed for my truck. It's my property. Software shouldn't do things behind the users back.
Things didn't used to be like this. :no:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
01-17-2008, 05:07
And no. If Empire has any DRM more complex than a cd check, I won't be getting it. I've gotten enough games with this crap on it, and while it doesn't cause me any problems particularly, I payed more for my computer than I payed for my truck. It's my property. Software shouldn't do things behind the users back.
Things didn't used to be like this. :no:
As soon as home technology develops to the point where games like this can be made open source, like some games used to be, I'll have a lot more praise for the gaming community. The problem is that companies, as always, get fat and bloated, and feel they should have a monopoly. I don't want CA to become another EA.
Alright alright, stop the bickering and let's get to the solution already! Fight it with fire. Buy the game and fight it with fire. It will help.
hellenes
01-17-2008, 17:38
Alright alright, stop the bickering and let's get to the solution already! Fight it with fire. Buy the game and fight it with fire. It will help.
I agree Ive bought Kingdoms and removed securom and still enjoy the game...
No, you guys missed the point entirely. When you buy the game, you're directly supporting the DRM that we're discussing here. It doesn't matter if you remove it, or do whatever, you're supporting it period. If you want to make a difference, don't buy the game. Otherwise, you're just deluding yourselves into thinking that you're "sticking it to them" or "showing them".
hellenes
01-17-2008, 21:38
No, you guys missed the point entirely. When you buy the game, you're directly supporting the DRM that we're discussing here. It doesn't matter if you remove it, or do whatever, you're supporting it period. If you want to make a difference, don't buy the game. Otherwise, you're just deluding yourselves into thinking that you're "sticking it to them" or "showing them".
Its the same thing as with RomeTW...it didnt have DRM and we bought it...if Kingdoms has a DRM and I can still play it while removing teh DRM it means that its like it didnt have the DRM in the first place...
Now if Empire has a DRM that cannot be removed and played I wont buy it simple as that...
I spit on every software distribution company which uses such software. It's a disgrace and should be illegal. Protecting your CD's or Dvd's and your interests is okay, but customers should have the right to protect themselves just as much. Thank god we still have some indie games.
Wow, I never knew this thing was so big an issue until I peeped in the thread and then started reading as it was interesting..........
:dizzy2:
Yup its making my head spin, because I was totally oblivious of the fact that Kingdoms had installed anything hidden on my system.......not that I've had any problems so far, but I haven't found the files yet either, but if there is one thing I hate in this world, then it is things that have more power over my PC than myself :furious3:
While I understand that the SecuRom whatever aren't really welcome, but they'd still deter a illegal copy won't they? I mean even if a guy uses a cracked game, he won't be able to copy it further isn't it?! I mean thats the whole point!!
Next, my dear sirs I live in India, there is a reason as to why I need to order my games over the internet and pay more in USD than I would have had to pay in my own currency, because the only PC game shop in my city, sells pirated games.......lord oh lord, the whole country runs on pirated games and movies.......and a select few people (considered a**h***s due it actually) buy the original DVDs/CDs of the games for ten times the price...........
Anyway, enough said.........
I'm uninstalling Kingdoms now, and I'm hurt that this is what CA gives me for my loyalty........far as ETW is concerned, I think I'll bycott it if it has the same rubbish alongwith it.
Evil_Maniac From Mars
02-18-2008, 17:52
While I understand that the SecuRom whatever aren't really welcome, but they'd still deter a illegal copy won't they? I mean even if a guy uses a cracked game, he won't be able to copy it further isn't it?! I mean thats the whole point!!
Nope. There are cracked copies of Kingdoms floating all over the internet. It might take the pirates an extra couple of minutes, but in the end, it only effects us.
woad&fangs
02-20-2008, 02:10
I'm uninstalling Kingdoms now, and I'm hurt that this is what CA gives me for my loyalty and honourableness........far as ETW is concerned, I think I'll bycott it if it has the same rubbish alongwith it.
iirc, the super secret securom files remain on your computer even if you uninstall kingdoms.
Lord of the Isles
02-27-2008, 12:24
I won't buy Empire:TW if it has any form of invasive DRM protection.
I bought Kingdoms and played it on an old machine that I've since trashed. It isn't on my new machine - like Silent Hunter III (Starforce copy protection) it sits on my shelf, games that I payed good money for that are now unusable. And now today, whilst browsing through SecuRom articles on the web, I find that Heroes of Might & Magic V, which I did install on my new machine IIRC, also has SecuRom protection. :furious3:
I've been a PC gamer since the days of Civ I and F19 Stealth Fighter 20 years ago. I've just spent a lot of money building a gaming machine with a high spec graphics card so I could enjoy games like Total War, yet I find I cannot because of this <expletive deleted> DRM software. The next time I reinstall Windows HoMM V will join the others on the shelf and I may end up just playing Galactic Civilizations since Stardock now seem to be the only publisher I can trust not to infect my computer with hidden malware.
hellenes
02-28-2008, 16:54
I won't buy Empire:TW if it has any form of invasive DRM protection.
I bought Kingdoms and played it on an old machine that I've since trashed. It isn't on my new machine - like Silent Hunter III (Starforce copy protection) it sits on my shelf, games that I payed good money for that are now unusable. And now today, whilst browsing through SecuRom articles on the web, I find that Heroes of Might & Magic V, which I did install on my new machine IIRC, also has SecuRom protection. :furious3:
I've been a PC gamer since the days of Civ I and F19 Stealth Fighter 20 years ago. I've just spent a lot of money building a gaming machine with a high spec graphics card so I could enjoy games like Total War, yet I find I cannot because of this <expletive deleted> DRM software. The next time I reinstall Windows HoMM V will join the others on the shelf and I may end up just playing Galactic Civilizations since Stardock now seem to be the only publisher I can trust not to infect my computer with hidden malware.
HOMMV doesnt have Securom DRM it has the older version...I dont know for latest patches cause my version is still the original...
Spartan198
02-28-2008, 17:48
No,plain and simple. :hmg:
Orda Khan
02-28-2008, 18:11
No, you guys missed the point entirely. When you buy the game, you're directly supporting the DRM that we're discussing here. It doesn't matter if you remove it, or do whatever, you're supporting it period. If you want to make a difference, don't buy the game. Otherwise, you're just deluding yourselves into thinking that you're "sticking it to them" or "showing them".
Very true.
Regardless of anything they add, I want to see something worth buying in the first place. RTW, BI, M2TW were a waste of money imo. I decided not to buy Kingdoms and I will not be buying ETW
.......Orda
I will NOT be buying Empire if it has securom on it.
I've already made the mistake of buy M2tw Gold. I installed it thinking I didn't have to install the DirectX, but soon found out I had to. So installed DirectX from the CD separately.
After, I tried to start the game up and I got an error message saying the CD wasn't in the drive (of course it was) along with a securom message saying I was trying to play off a back up copy (#@!*&$). Now I'll have to uninstall everything and than re-install it. How much do you want to bet I won't be able to play it after that, because securom will say I violated its protection?
I am so pissed ! I can't continue, or they'll kick me off this forum for typing what I really think.
Rick
I agree Ive bought Kingdoms and removed securom and still enjoy the game...
How did you remove it?
Rick
hellenes
02-28-2008, 23:12
How did you remove it?
Rick
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?threadid=203200
gardibolt
03-04-2008, 18:17
Nope. Didin't buy SecuRom Kingdoms, and won't buy a SecuRom Empire. Loved RTW and MIITW but there's a line been drawn in the sand that I won't cross. No money for malware. End of story.
Callahan9119
03-05-2008, 02:37
i wont buy it at all /shrug
ArtistofWarfare
03-08-2008, 14:56
I bought M2TW Gold (haven't installed it yet/waiting for new PC still) which as we all know, has securom.
I'll buy Empires as well. The fact remains: I plan on buying a lot of PC games in the next few years. Securom is going to either wind up on my hard drive now, or some time in the future. Might as well just bite the bullet, accept it, and continue playing the games that I want to.
If Securom was some off beat, one time application- Sure. Maybe I'd just take a pass on any software it's a part of. The fact is that Securom and copyright protection software just like it, is being sold to almost every publisher and developer in the industry today.
I just don't see any way around it...other than to deprive myself of playing the games I want to. Which is just not an option.
edit: I'll also add that since I heard about this Securom issue here on the .org, I asked people I know who have lots of new games installed on their PC. They all have Securom on their hard drive already, yet none of them report any change in their system. I'm not doubting that Securom has caused people problems...I'm just saying that it seems to be thinly spread. Older hardware seems to be primarily at risk...which makes me wonder if this is partially a nasty way to get people to upgrade hardware.
Also, Securom is made by Sony. From what I hear, Optical Drives are the main component threatened. I have a Sony optical drive. I just think this would be too ironic heh...
Caerfanan
03-12-2008, 12:05
Sorry guys, I don't get it: when I buy bread, I pay the guy who made it. Same for many things. Why wouldn't I pay for the guys who design and sell a game I will spend hours and hours on?
hellenes
03-12-2008, 18:48
Sorry guys, I don't get it: when I buy bread, I pay the guy who made it. Same for many things. Why wouldn't I pay for the guys who design and sell a game I will spend hours and hours on?
Can somebody please tell me how this is relevant to the discussion?
I guess a more appropriate question is: Would you install a SecuRomed Emire: Total War?
thebigbossnahhh
03-12-2008, 21:11
There is Software that SecuROM provides if you write to them that removes the programme from your Computer.
A Bit confusing to use as it isn't a double click remove programme, it gives you instructions on how to remove SecuROM from your run text box.
But yeah, Quality deserves to be bought, I have Eras, Med 2 and Kingdoms and games are getting bigger and bigger so requires money, any Mod on here can tell you how hard it is to even do the basics that they do but Hard coding, that's something else:juggle2: .
Hello thebigbossnahhh,
The discussion isn't about not buying ETW as in obtaining illegal copies.
Not buying should, in this case, be seen as not willing to install.
It would be nicer when there was an option to deinstall SecuRom together with the game. That's the least a customer should get.
ArtistofWarfare
03-13-2008, 00:07
Hello thebigbossnahhh,
The discussion isn't about not buying ETW as in obtaining illegal copies.
Not buying should, in this case, be seen as not willing to install.
It would be nicer when there was an option to deinstall SecuRom together with the game. That's the least a customer should get.
Well, I'm definitely going to go ahead and agree with you on that one.
Especially if contacting Sony yields free software to remove the program in the first place. If this is the case, there's absolutely no reason the software should not be able to be uninstalled like every other program in existance.
I do NOT see the purpose behind this...well, I guess I do. It just doesn't benefit the paying consumer one bit.
Caerfanan
03-13-2008, 12:18
Can somebody please tell me how this is relevant to the discussion?
Can somebody please tell me first why I perceive this as agressive, and then what this Securom thing is? If it's somethnig to prevent you from copying the game, isn't that some "normal stuff"?
Which I illustrated with a simple exemple (well, apparently less simple as I expected, sorry about that): why ranting against anti-piracy stuff if not because you encourage it? I used the exemple of a "shop" where you actually BUY things and consider it normal. Then, oddly, when it's music or games or films, it's a shame to pay...
Then again, I could've missed something, I'm no computer geek, I know some things, but don't follow closely all the info, so if I misunderstood something about Securom, please explain... Is that some nasty independent softaware that sends information about your system or something?
Can somebody please tell me first why I perceive this as agressive, and then what this Securom thing is? If it's somethnig to prevent you from copying the game, isn't that some "normal stuff"?
SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.
Hello Caerfanan,
I believe it is a customers right to make a personal backup copy of software. Abuse a book and you can (normally) still read it, scratch a CD and you can not install or play the game (apart from the tiny scratches which are error corrected).
Of course publishers are allowed to protect their investments. But this already gives a conflict with the customer.
I recall something about crashing/locking hardware a couple of years ago due to playing a legal audioCD.
This SecuRom software is installed on the computer and remains there even after uninstalling Kingdoms.
One is not allowed to copy books, I still have to encounter the first copy protection there. Exploding copymachines? Exclusive reservation of a bookshelf even when the book is thrown away?
Granted, it's a whole different medium and one on one comparisons are odd.
I don't think there's a copyprotection that hasn't been bypassed. But for the honest customer it's becoming harder: require online activation and quit when you change hardware, phone in to some distant country to activate, damaged optical equipment, remaining software. Maybe it's time to focus on encouraging purchasing legal copies rather than devising harsh copy-protection.
This topic is not promoting piracy, it is about the anti-piracy measurements that do not hurt the pirates but the customers.
Caerfanan
03-13-2008, 13:21
SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.
Oh... Ok, then that's another thing. Why on earth would a program prevent you from deleting a program? And then, yes, it should at least be easy to uninstall then... But, err, what does this have to do with a proctection against copy? I mean, why add this program to a game? And BTW, as my "gaming computer" is also my "working computer", I might not install that kind of stuff on it, then...
Hello Caerfanan,
Konbawa Tosa Inu,
I believe it is a customers right to make a personal backup copy of software. Abuse a book and you can (normally) still read it, scratch a CD and you can not install or play the game (apart from the tiny scratches which are error corrected).
Of course publishers are allowed to protect their investments. But this already gives a conflict with the customer.
I recall something about crashing/locking hardware a couple of years ago due to playing a legal audioCD.
This SecuRom software is installed on the computer and remains there even after uninstalling Kingdoms.
One is not allowed to copy books, I still have to encounter the first copy protection there. Exploding copymachines? Exclusive reservation of a bookshelf even when the book is thrown away?
Granted, it's a whole different medium and one on one comparisons are odd.
I don't think there's a copyprotection that hasn't been bypassed. But for the honest customer it's becoming harder: require online activation and quit when you change hardware, phone in to some distant country to activate, damaged optical equipment, remaining software. Maybe it's time to focus on encouraging purchasing legal copies rather than devising harsh copy-protection.
This topic is not promoting piracy, it is about the anti-piracy measurements that do not hurt the pirates but the customers.
Yup, with Puzz3D's and your explanation it's more clear. Thank you. I still think that functionning with "replaceable" 1 for 1 CD for very cheap would be best. Like you sell the first time the game to someone, and then the guy, if he has a problem with the CD can exchange it (literally) with a new one, for a price which should be then about the CD's + litttle time to burn it. Sort of a big "developper based backup". You bring back the CD that doesn't work and that you cannot play anymore with, and go with a new one. Would be simpler, wouldn't it? :yes:
Oh... Ok, then that's another thing. Why on earth would a program prevent you from deleting a program? And then, yes, it should at least be easy to uninstall then... But, err, what does this have to do with a proctection against copy? I mean, why add this program to a game?
I haven't looked into SecuRom, but my guess: it's intended to block CD-emulation software, thus preventing ten friends to share one copy on different computers.
Yup, with Puzz3D's and tyour explanation it's more clear. I still think that functionning with "remplaceable" 1 for 1 CD for very cheap would be best.
This was an option with STW published by EA: it was a one time replacement for $25 (? will dig up the manual). The BI manual only mentions the 90 days warranty and states that the customer is not allowed to make copies (that includes your personal backup copy I think).
Edit:
From EA's STW readme: 12 months warranty, fll25,- ( ~$12,50) to replace 1 CD after 12 months, fl35,- for both.
SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.
That's nasty Puzz3D.
The discussion, at least partly, is about the need to be able to uninstall SecuRom when you uninstall the game, but software like this is simply something you don't want on your computer at all.
Right now it may sound like I say: 'SecuRom is ok when you can uninstall it'. It's not ok at all.
Jochi Khan
03-13-2008, 15:36
SecuROM installs a shell extension that prevents Windows Explorer from deleting 16-bit executables. SecuROM is not removed when you uninstall the game, and it can cause other programs you may use to malfunction. In other words, compatibility issues can arise between SecuROM and other software, and you won't know that it's SecuROM that's causing the problem because it doesn't show up on your system as being installed. In fact, the game company conceals from the user that SecuROM is installed by their game. So, the user isn't even aware that SecuROM has been installed which makes it pretty damn hard to figure out why some program that it conflicts with isn't working.
That is the reason why I will definately NOT buy or install Kingdoms or Empire.
Mouzafphaerre
03-13-2008, 16:12
That is the reason why I will definately NOT buy or install Kingdoms or Empire.
.
Is it confirmed that Empire will be shipped with it?
.
Mouzafphaerre
03-13-2008, 16:14
.
Maybe it's time to focus on encouraging purchasing legal copies rather than devising harsh copy-protection.
:yes:
.
R'as al Ghul
03-13-2008, 16:25
The most ridiculous thing is that copy protection has failed for 3 decades.
No copy protection has ever prevented any software from being distributed freely. Yet almost every new game/software comes with copy protection in one flavour or another. What's even more, the protections have gotten so nasty that they harass the legitimate customer while only those who get the black copy can enjoy the product to the full extend (minus MP in most cases).
When will they learn? :no:
The most ridiculous thing is that copy protection has failed for 3 decades.
No copy protection has ever prevented any software from being distributed freely. Yet almost every new game/software comes with copy protection in one flavour or another. What's even more, the protections have gotten so nasty that they harass the legitimate customer while only those who get the black copy can enjoy the product to the full extend (minus MP in most cases).
When will they learn? :no:
Oh come on R'as, you already know the answer to this. :whip: :beam: They won't learn, never have, never will. If anything, they'll keep forming "special interest" lobby groups whose intents are to purchase more legislation that removes our rights regarding what we OWN.
Piracy always has and always will exist. There are two proven methods to combat it to a large degree. The first is a method whereby a game that has single and multiplayer facets uses a key system to authenticate before multiplayer is allowed. id Software had/has this perfectly right with the Quake and Doom series, Valve had it right with WON but then screwed it all up with that DRM riddled pile of poo that is Steam. The other method is to actually, genuinely interact often with your consumer/fanbase and treat them respectfully and show/make good on requests and concerns. Look at Stardock as a perfect example here. They don't use any nasty DRM at all, and have somewhat minimal protections in place against piracy. This doesn't stop piracy of course, and they are a relatively small developer house compared to some of the bigger juggernauts around, but they have a rather large, loyal, and vocal fanbase which is somewhat disproportionate to their size. They didn't get this through treating their customers like garbage, they got it from making good games and listening/interacting with their fan communities constantly and making good on issues raised.
The best thing we can do is keep spreading the word and educating folks. Caerfanan is a perfect example of this, and now he's been made aware of what he's actually doing to his system when he installs this crude. Some people are going to buy the games no matter what even after they're told the facts, some even refuse to believe the facts, but that's individual choice.
R'as al Ghul
03-14-2008, 11:23
Oh come on R'as, you already know the answer to this. :whip: :beam:
Yes, baby, spank me. :kiss2:
I agree with you and personally I'd prefer a mix between a good longstanding interaction between community and developer plus a restricted (by serial key)Multiplayer. That should work for all games where MP is an important part.
Single player games should offer value for money. If you pack a nice manual, a map and perhaps another gimmick in a nice box then people will go for it. Nowadays you buy cheap jewel cases with 2 cents worth of CD's and a single paper sheet (yes I exaggerate ). That's no comparison to the red box of Shogun, that I still treasure.
gotta say thanks for all the infomation on the malware that comes with kingdoms, I bought it without knowing and will soon be getting rid of it.
As for Empire, voted undecided, it all depends on how bad it is (both malware, and I guess game), in a strange twist of fate, my old computer probably wont be upto playing it anyway and Im lacking the money for an upgrade, so I'll deffinantly have time to see what other people say about it before purchase/non-purchase.
Nobunaga
03-14-2008, 11:41
hmmm. Well if the game was good (like original STW) SecuRomed won't prevent me from getting the game. But I highly doubt that the game will be playable upon release, I think that we will get a beta release bug heaven (as usual :wall: ).
BTW I really hope that my expectation fail this time :juggle2:
SecuRom is a big problem because
a) so far most games with it don't tell you it's going to install it - which seems like a fundamental problem to me
b) once installed it's almost impossible to tell it's there
c) there is no easy way of removing it
I'm more than happy to pay full price for a game, and it's reasonable for that game to have some sort of copy protection, but the nature of SecuRom is highly suspect (like Sony's notorious RootKit) and i'd prefer to avoid it
(i may consider installing such games on my old machine - but then the new games won't work on it anyway)
shame really :(
I also still have the original STW cardbox R'as al Ghul.
I think the Eras and M2TW collectors box were nice packages too.
Was it Sony's rootkit that caused problems with diskdrives (damage to hardware) mitch23?
Caerfanan
03-14-2008, 12:04
I haven't looked into SecuRom, but my guess: it's intended to block CD-emulation software, thus preventing ten friends to share one copy on different computers.
Yes, and to avoid the one rabbid dog we kill all animals on the planet. Fair enough... That's really, as you say afterwards, nasty...
This was an option with STW published by EA: it was a one time replacement for $25 (? will dig up the manual). The BI manual only mentions the 90 days warranty and states that the customer is not allowed to make copies (that includes your personal backup copy I think).
Edit:
From EA's STW readme: 12 months warranty, fll25,- ( ~$12,50) to replace 1 CD after 12 months, fl35,- for both.
That was a good start, but still, 9 euros is too expensives. Let's say some 2-3 euros... That would sound fair.
Nobunaga
03-14-2008, 13:08
i bet if the game was good enough all people complaining here will buy ETW :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:
Especially that SecuRomed protection can be removed ~;)
Tosa Inu - yes, Sony's Rootkit killed some CD Drives, and caused system crashes, and at the very least was a constant drain on system resources
and it also opened up security holes (badly written software running in ring zero)
SecuRom follows the Rootkit pattern of not telling you it's there, hiding itself after install, and being difficult to remove (not sure if SecuRom runs in ring zero, but it may well do [hard to hide itself from the OS otherwise])
This is not a technical thread, I know, but just out of curosity, what is ring zero?
thebigbossnahhh
03-14-2008, 18:48
Never knew that SecuROM conflicts with other programmes.
Thing is it should provide software in the game to easily remove SecuROM or any other Copyright Protection software.
It should also Notify through the Terms of Agreement that this Software contains Third Party anti-Piracy Software.
I also believe we have a right to a Back up copy after the Warranty runs out.
They should really learn from the Music Industry that their tactics of attacking the Downloader, the shut down of P2P and Bit Torrents as well as the recent 3 Strikes your Out Laws that have come into play will not stop people downloading and it can never be enforced as were talking about tracking the actions of millions of people.
That feels a bit Big Brother to me. SecuROM isn't exactly spyware reporting all our whereabouts but if they can add this to your computer then what's stopping them from adding spyware in the future?
I have an Idea..
Maybe the solution is in what SavetheInternet.com are doing when challenging Verizon and AT&T?
Maybe someone can start an online activist Site for Gamers and protest what Sega and other software companies are doing and what this malware does?
There would be a LARGE Community out there that if they saw what was in their game would gather and hurt these Security firms into ceasing their actions, maybe even change the Laws in your Country to stop this in future?
Great idea, but what larger communities for the TW than com and org........? If they are not hearing us here, well...........
thebigbossnahhh
03-14-2008, 19:12
Great idea, but what larger communities for the TW than com and org........? If they are not hearing us here, well...........
That's the Beauty of Cyber Activism; Not everyone against Spyware and Malware is a Total War Fan, but this Spyware problem is the problem of every Game Genre.
from Shoot Em Up to RPG, Thinky Game to Sports Game.
How many Gamers are there in the World?
How many of them know their Game contains Software like SecuROM?
There could be a mass outcry, one large enough to scare the game industries into ceasing their Copyright Protection.
If done right can hit them in their pocket where it hurts.
ArtistofWarfare
03-14-2008, 20:44
There's news this week that Windows Vista installs with SecuRom ON it.
This is why I'm just not going to worry about it. If the scenario is: It's on there. It's not conflicting with anything. It takes it virtually no space= I don't care.
This is just 2 pennies in the hat. Doesn't change my original opinion that "hiding" this program from the user should be a felony.
Vista installs SecuRom by default?
Not conflicting with anything? Not anything extra perhaps?
Evil_Maniac From Mars
03-14-2008, 23:57
That's the first I've heard of it. Link?
:dizzy2: :inquisitive: Vista has SecuRom??! All editions or just select few?
A quick Google search offered nothing other than compatibility issues with some games. Nothing about Vista having SecuRom.
eddy_purpus
03-16-2008, 08:01
i dont know man .
is that star ..... malware bad for your computer ?
or why are youtelling that ? ( i dont know much about software ok)
hehehe
Evil_Maniac From Mars
03-17-2008, 02:20
is that star ..... malware bad for your computer ?
StarForce is extremely bad for your computer, and should be removed ASAP.
SecuRom is not quite as dangerous, but there are still problems that can come around with it, some potentially serious. The potential invasion of privacy is a major concern for anti-SecuRom users.
Hmm, did anyone here know that Oblivion shipped with absolutely no software protection at all and was still one of the biggest selling games of 2006? (By the way I got that info from PC Gamer and they do indeed know their buisness.) The average Joe probably couldn't even copy a game to his friends, he might lend them the discs but then again, if you couldn't do multiple loads how the heck are you supposed to re install it once it crashes from some bug teh company let slide or a patch gone AWOL.
Companies need to realise that you don't need to copy protect your software nearly as much as they would like you too believe. Most people will go out and buy the game anyways, I personally lent Kingdoms to a friend of mine to try out, he liked and actually went and BOUGHT the game. Even though he wasn't going to previously.
PS: who has had problems playing lan useing the same copy? I play it all the time against my brother and have never had a problem.
BetterDeadThanRed
03-17-2008, 03:10
As far as I know, World in Conflict has secuROM on it and I honestly haven't seen anything change at all performance or otherwise. I may sound like a spokesman for the company, and while I certainly disagree with the motives, I don't see anything that will stop me from buying ETW when it comes out.
And to the people that are upset about the inclusion of the protection software, if you have bought more than 5 games over the past 3 years, chances are you have your own little secuROM hiding away on your task list. Not much you can do about it at this point.
eddy_purpus
03-18-2008, 22:19
Im undecided guys .
i dont know if i would buy the game when it comes out .
i had problems with kingdoms and now medieval 2
:P
because in august im getting a laptop to play pc games.
:feedback:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
03-20-2008, 04:37
As far as I know, World in Conflict has secuROM on it and I honestly haven't seen anything change at all performance or otherwise. I may sound like a spokesman for the company, and while I certainly disagree with the motives, I don't see anything that will stop me from buying ETW when it comes out.
A search of my computer for SecuROM reveals nothing, and I play WiC on a regular basis. I removed SecuROM once and rolled back the patch to 1.2.
This is not a technical thread, I know, but just out of curosity, what is ring zero?
hi - sorry for the slow response, i was on holiday last week - but here's the definition as i understand it:
4 different processor privilege levels (also called rings) are available (0,1,2, & 3), ring 0 being the most privileged one and ring 3 the least privileged one. Kernels of operating systems run in ring 0 whereas users code runs in ring 3
ArtistofWarfare
03-27-2008, 21:45
Vista installs SecuRom by default?
Not conflicting with anything? Not anything extra perhaps?
Perhaps it was just another rumor...
I'll try to dig up the link on it...
I will say that after uninstalling Kingdoms a couple of weeks ago (because they patched Gold wrong and still to this day- Won't give technical support on the issue after almost a month of correspondence) I've done searches for all of the Securom files and nothing has come up. Further, there's no unaccounted for hard drive space taken up (wouldn't imagine their would be).
No change in performance either. Nothing.
So- Assumably I have Securom on my HDD right? I would never know it and apparently, neither would the computer.
As for a privacy concern- I don't quite understand what privacy we're talking about here. So Sega will know that I play World of Warcraft? I don't understand...
added w/ edit: I want to add here, right after I posted this: I went and did another regedit to look for Securom. I had previously removed all Sega/Medieval registries after uninstalling the game and manually deleting it's file from my C drive. Sure enough, a registry for "Securom" came up. I selected it, deleted the registry, and there were no problems. Rechecked for Securom on C drive and Registry- None found.
I then checked all of my running services- UAService7.exe not found, nor is ever running or scheduled to run. I'd imagine this means I got it.
How painful could that be for anyone to do?
p.s.- No HDD space change either. So obviously, it was taking up virtually no space. I think we're talking a few kb's.
Again- What's preventing anyone from doing this? (I know that's not the point here, the point is that it shouldn't be on there in first place. But still- Obviously it's nothing MAJOR, right?)
edit- I want to add this: A little research has given me reason to believe that deleting these registry keys (as well as never finding the UAService running. Ever. Even with Securom installed) was so easy and painless due to the fact that I was on Vista. Perhaps the administrator features and security of Vista prevents this from even being a security/resource threat in the first place? Cause i have got to be honest- When I do some digging, I can't find anyone who has Vista having any difficulties finding or removing Securom's registry file. It's all the people on XP. Hopefully someone with far more expertise than I could comment on these findings...
Hello ArtistofWarfare,
It would be painful to do for many. From experience: having some people unzip a file to a certain directory is already difficult. Editing the registry is a whole different story and I'ld hate to give a penny to every user that wrecks his system that way.
Securom preventing 16 bit code to execute is probably not an issue for most, but it's not nice. And more, what's next? It's an arms race against piracy and the customer is experiencing the trouble.
Securom probably only occupies a few kb, a droplet in the Atlantic. And while Securom is not a virus or a worm, those files are small too and can be removed.
There can be one application that seriously drops system performance, but tens, hundreds or even thousands of small ones have an effect too. A rock can break a camels back, several million straws too.
A little side-stepping perhaps: I made a dump of my registry a while back. It was around 100 mb. The system has to carry that all the time, and while it can, it will be faster when it's lots leaner. My system doesn't need to know where Minesweeper is. In the past I could install Shogun: Total War and then restore the system to the point where it was before installing it, to have a lean machine again. Now, I can't even play online, install patches or mods when I do that.
Forget about installing it on Vista. I tried. I called the Securom tech support, but nothing worked. Bottom line, I refused to by any game with Securom on it.
Good luck.
i am saddened that they are using SecuRom as that means that i will NOT be buying any TW related games. :furious3:
i don`t want pirated versions of any games but i refuse to have that junk on my computer.
Gaius Terentius Varro
03-28-2008, 15:17
For each one of us voting here there is 10000 that don't visit these forums and don't know about the securom issue. Sega/CA know this hence this poll is pointless. Answer: I won't buy another game from CA ever again, securom or not
Quirinus
03-28-2008, 16:59
I won't buy it, simply because that period in history doesn't fascinate me enough to want to consciously put spyware on my computer. Though if they ever release a R2TW, I suppose that might be another matter....... can't help it, the fact is that they make very good games.
Still praying that they follow Stardock's example, though.
ArtistofWarfare
03-28-2008, 20:46
Hello ArtistofWarfare,
It would be painful to do for many. From experience: having some people unzip a file to a certain directory is already difficult. Editing the registry is a whole different story and I'ld hate to give a penny to every user that wrecks his system that way.
Securom preventing 16 bit code to execute is probably not an issue for most, but it's not nice. And more, what's next? It's an arms race against piracy and the customer is experiencing the trouble.
Securom probably only occupies a few kb, a droplet in the Atlantic. And while Securom is not a virus or a worm, those files are small too and can be removed.
There can be one application that seriously drops system performance, but tens, hundreds or even thousands of small ones have an effect too. A rock can break a camels back, several million straws too.
A little side-stepping perhaps: I made a dump of my registry a while back. It was around 100 mb. The system has to carry that all the time, and while it can, it will be faster when it's lots leaner. My system doesn't need to know where Minesweeper is. In the past I could install Shogun: Total War and then restore the system to the point where it was before installing it, to have a lean machine again. Now, I can't even play online, install patches or mods when I do that.
Understand...
Hey, I'm by no means supporting it- I'm just trying to figure out it's true danger and the means to remove it myself.
That said, yeah as I've posted in this thread- It's definitely not something we should even be dealing with in the first place. Gone are the days of installing/uninstalling/reinstalling ...we now have to seriously research the contents of anything we install on our PC for fear of opening a can of worms like this.
It's a shame...
Hello ArtistofWarfare,
It's nice that it didn't cause problems for you.
hellenes
03-29-2008, 12:25
For each one of us voting here there is 10000 that don't visit these forums and don't know about the securom issue. Sega/CA know this hence this poll is pointless. Answer: I won't buy another game from CA ever again, securom or not
Dont confuse PC gamers with the console cattle....
Remember the AI bug that the 1.2 RTW patch created? If this was the case Activision would simply not give a rat's a*** about what the online community thinks....
The mere fact that the outrage gave birth to 1.3/1.5 patches destroys the hilarious myth of 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of TW gamers having access to internet and being informed....
ArtistofWarfare
03-29-2008, 23:00
Dont confuse PC gamers with the console cattle....
Remember the AI bug that the 1.2 RTW patch created? If this was the case Activision would simply not give a rat's a*** about what the online community thinks....
The mere fact that the outrage gave birth to 1.3/1.5 patches destroys the hilarious myth of 0,00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of TW gamers having access to internet and being informed....
Relevant point...I guess lol.
It's true though. The fact however, that people had to go through what they did to get that 1.3/1.5 patching is just unacceptable.
We shouldn't have to beg and pull teeth to get customer support. I mean, is it an absolute tragedy that CA might have to pay a tech or dev overtime one weekend to work on something that they fudged in the first place?
How much could this cost them...a couple of hundred dollars? At most?
They just don't care...They think that extra $200 on the bottom line is actually important. As if they world circulates for CA to make money. For what? They already have plenty...grow up.
To think that people spend countless hours on forums BEGGING for support with something they've already paid for, simply so an executive at CA can buy a new pair of pants...is just absolutely disgusting. I'm beginning to think this franchise needs to die a quick and horribly painful death. It's just the only way...
Perhaps you now see why so many are opposed to securom and copy protection in general? The money wasted on this junk "technology" could be better spent providing better customer service and proper patching of their games.
My point is that it is evident where their priorities lie. At this moment in time CA seems to be about 50% marketing, 10% copy protection, 39% graphics and 1% on gameplay and AI.
Sadly after becoming established with the release of STW, the CA have, IMHO, quite simply ceased to innovate. The newer titles have been more of the same thing. M2TW was simply a glorified mod for RTW. It has most of the same problems that the earlier game had.
The TW genre has simply not come on and has not been refined. Graphically it has made advances, but that's it. The tactical battle engine has not become ultra realistic with realistic parameters and physics and the campaign map (whether you like it or not) is not anything new, but is simply a TBS tiled strategy map, much like that used in most other TBS games.
The last hope, for me and probably for quite a few others, is this game. I will be watching with interest and if this isn't it, then I will be giving up.
:bow:
I am very, very disappointed.
I own every TW-game and expansion, until:
M2TW was unplayable for month. An unfinished game.
And then: Kingdoms.
A game wich my anti-virus software classes as "rootkit".
Thanks to securom.
I will NOT buy E:TW if it contains something like securom.
Games like Sins of a Solar Empire show that an aggressive copy-protection is not needed.
I am a customer and not a thief.
Don´t treat me like one.:furious3:
DisruptorX
06-05-2008, 22:29
Not only Sins of a Solar Empire, but Oblivion sold very well on the PC and doesn't even have a CD Key.
Some of you might have heard of the Mass Effect fiasco. EA rolled back the ridiculous draconian measures when people complained enough. That stuff would have been cracked within days, anyway. You can't stop piracy, successful PC developers have shown that the best way to combat it is making a product worth buying.
Merchent
06-13-2008, 22:41
Mass Effect still has SecuRom actaully, they even still have the 3 installs thing. They lied about removing it.
Simply, NO. I am not going to have that thing on my computer ever again.
Tafferboy
06-20-2008, 17:33
Supposing Empire were to be the bestest video game ever created by Man (and I cannot imagine how possibly so with the idiotic AI and bug-ridden nature of its predecessor), I would not pay a cent to knowingly infect my system with vile garbage nor to be treated as a criminal.
In fact, ironically, I fear that the feelings shown in this thread will actually increase piracy, with previously good customers turning to illegal copies just to play the game without SecuROM. :shame:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
06-22-2008, 05:27
In fact, ironically, I fear that the feelings shown in this thread will actually increase piracy, with previously good customers turning to illegal copies just to play the game without SecuROM. :shame:
There's really a simple solution - having CA not include SecuROM in their games. I will not buy a game with SecuROM, and if Empire shows good reviews, well...CA will have to learn the hard way, to put my response within forum anti-piracy rules.
Constantius I
06-27-2008, 03:20
If SecuRomed is on Empire, no matter how good of a game it is, it will not be installed on my system. There is a reason that Shogun, Medieval, viking, Rome, BI, Alexander, and Medieval 2 are presently installed on my home system. Kingdoms is noticeably absent from that list. I was really was looking forward to it, but never bought it.
If Empire comes with SecuRomed, looks like my connection with the total war series will be over.
I will just continue to read books on the topic, and look for the next title set in that era.
Swoosh So
06-27-2008, 21:11
...
Swoosh So
07-11-2008, 21:47
...
As much as i love the napoleonic period, i wouldnt purchase this game, simply for the copy protection that ive heard so much negativity about. I don't have M2, or kingdoms because of bug issues and securom.
And as someone else in this thread has said - Treat as like customers, not like criminals. I have purchased Shogun, medeival, rome, BI and Alexander (which was gonna be download only they told us.)
In all honesty i fail to trust CA anymore, they went away from looking after fans when they got with sega, and now, ill stick with what ive got and the mods for them thanks.
And id rather play imperial glory than Empire, at least i know my pc is safe.
TheRealSlimBrady
07-22-2008, 20:01
I will buy it.
You know what happened to my computer when I installed Kingdoms? I started playing a fun expansion for a good game. No problems with SecuROM or anything. No slowdowns. No viruses. Nothing bad.
Now, I don't support SecuROM being a part of this, but if I've been following all of this correctly, this isn't CA's choice. This is Sega's doing. I don't like having SecuROM installed in my system - it's told me I can't play certain games because I have disc emulation running even with the game disc in the drive! - but I still want to support CA. Refusing to play the game isn't an option, because, well, I really enjoy TW. You probably do too, if you're reading this. And pirating the game would not support CA.
Two rhetorical questions, though:
Will I install a no-cd crack? Yes. I do on every game that doesn't give the courtesy of letting me play without the cd. Paradox Interactive and Stardock are good developers in that they don't treat me like a criminal when I've paid for the game - however, they are not as big currently as CA, though I think they are growing. Since CA (or at least Sega) does not support disc-free play without a crack, however - and for no good reason* - they leave me little choice.
Will I try to circumvent this SecuROM protection wherever possible? Darn tootin'! If the publishers are going to treat me like a criminal for giving them money, then I may as well earn it. Treating people like criminals turns them into criminals when they find out that the criminal way of doing things works out better for them. And as I stated above, SecuROM is bad in some games.
However, to sum up, in a way that might contradict myself a fair bit because it is 5am and thus I am quite tired: I would much prefer that Empire: TW comes without SecuROM. But if it does come with SecuROM, I will buy it, because Securom has not hampered my enjoyment of the game, or my computer's integrity in any way at all. To avoid playing what looks like it'll be a good game (who knows at this stage) just because of a phantom threat that amounts to sweet fanny adams? You've got too many points in Paranoia, general. SecuROM isn't good, but this whole discussion is ridiculous.
Brady.
*If someone's going to pirate the game, then it doesn't matter how much copy protection it has. It will get cracked eventually. Copy protection only ever hurts legitimate consumers, which is the whole point of this thread anyway I think.
[Er, hope I didn't say anything too controversial here, mods - I didn't actually link to any warez or anything, just stated my views. Incidentally, people who aren't mods, I found that any SecuROM problems in most games tend to go away when you install a crack. No links though.]
To answer a post a few pages back, I recently learned while trying to buy tickers for Blizzcon that I can download Blizzard games I have over the Internet as long as I have my CD-Key. I put my CD-Keys into their website and can now download older games that I have if I lost my CDs and ever feel the urge to play them again. It's a pretty nice back-up copy.
If Empires is good, I think I'll buy it even with the Securom. It depends on how good the game is and how bad the implementation of Securom is. I'm playing Kingdoms again right now. It's still a good game but there's so many things wrong in it, gameplay wise.
There's something to be said about treating your customers nicely. Blizzard sold out Blizzcon tickets in a day. $100 for a two-day event, tons of server issues and it sold out very fast.
darrin42
08-22-2008, 04:00
Also you've hit the nail on the head when you said that this copy protection is designed to stop the "average joe" from making a copy for his mates and is not designed to deter the real software pirates. I find it disappointing though that you can support this kind of software. I take it also that if you had two PCs in your house and wanted to play TW with a friend over the lan using the same copy, that you'd gladly pay twice for this game? To the letter of the law? I hope you don't record radio broadcasts or TV programs either. And if you find Bill Gates' wallet in the street I expect you to hand it back to him with not a moth out of place. :yes:
I'm a firm believer in that you should install on your own PC what you want and only that. If a game requires a hidden copy protection program then that protection should be listed in the system requirements as is DirectX, windows version or any platfrom specifics. The fact that these companies can get away with this and that some people still will accept (and sometimes support) it so readily even if they know it's there, is a sign of the times. Sooner or later this software will get more and more invasive and restrictive. The problem with piracy is the wide proliferation of cracked copies over the .net via p2p networks and warez sites and not "average joe" burning a sly copy for his cousin "average john".[/QUOTE]
HERE HERE!!!! Could Not possibly agree More with everything you said there lol.
Hosakawa Tito
08-26-2008, 19:01
As much as I look forward to purchasing and playing ETW...I won't buy it if SecuRom is included. I can't play MTW2 because of SecuRom, getting 'no disc inserted in drive' error message, and there appears to be no patch or fix that corrects this for me. I've ended up with a $50 beer coaster and won't get burned again.:thumbsdown:
Discoman
08-27-2008, 12:39
That happend with me in Kingdoms, I ended up using the second disc and only then could I play the expansion pack.
Gray Beard
08-27-2008, 13:39
I agree with a poster above.
I would be willing to use some sort of Read-Only, encrypted and thus very difficult yo copy USB Memory stick that does not install anything on my computer but don't want the Securorom on my computer.
I'd still prefer to see a Stardock-type scheme, in which we just need to enter our disk's serial number in order download patches/updates. That way the copy protection remains non-intrusive, while still rewarding those who own legitimate copies of the game (as pirated versions couldn't receive patches or updates).
As much as I look forward to purchasing and playing ETW...I won't buy it if SecuRom is included. I can't play MTW2 because of SecuRom, getting 'no disc inserted in drive' error message, and there appears to be no patch or fix that corrects this for me. I've ended up with a $50 beer coaster and won't get burned again.:thumbsdown:
But M2 doesn't have securom...
Anyway didn't CA say somewhere that they would remove all/part of it due to the public "outcry". I recall reading that somewhere...
Erm, they said something vague a few months ago along the lines of "we know people don't like Securom, Sega say we have to use something, we're working on something we think people will be happy with". Didn't quite go as far as actually saying it won't be Securom, though I sort of hope that's what it implies.
But M2 doesn't have securom...
I believe HT has M2TW + Kingdoms.
Erm, they said something vague a few months ago along the lines of "we know people don't like Securom, Sega say we have to use something, we're working on something we think people will be happy with". Didn't quite go as far as actually saying it won't be Securom, though I sort of hope that's what it implies.
That's my understanding as well. CA said that while Sega requires them to use some sort of copy protection, they're also very aware of how much SecuROM is despised, and were therefore working on an alternate protection scheme.
Hosakawa Tito
08-30-2008, 00:06
I believe HT has M2TW + Kingdoms.
That is correct. MTW2 used to play perfectly for me. However, when I downloaded the Kingdoms expansion that came with that accursed and unannounced SecuROM, my MTW2 discs became a $50 set of beer coasters. Here is my e-mail tag log with their support. Their "expert" analysis conclusion, even though the disc and original game minus the dubious SecuROM played perfectly well on that same optical drive, not their problem.:thumbsdown:
Are you paying attention CA & Sega??? What amounts to malware has been placed on my pc with no mention of it at time of purchase. And even if one uninstalls the game SecuROM is still on my system. If there isn't a law against this practice of not informing customers of this before they buy or removing such a program when the game is uninstalled than there should be.
Buyer beware....indeed.
Hello.
Please be informed that SecuROM has no influence on the disc recognition under Windows. It appears that the issue is not SecuROM related.
The problem may be caused by an anomaly of the DVD or the CD/DVD drive.
Best regards,
SecuROM Support Team
SecuROM on the web: http://www.securom.com (http://www.securom.com/) or via e-mail: support@securom.com
*** Please include the subject line exactly as written above including your ticket number in all communications to ensure proper handling ***
---- Message from "*********" <************> ---
From: "***********" <*********>
To: "'SecuROM Support'" <support@securom.com>
Subject: RE: [Ticket#2008082610000832] Emailing: AnalysisLog.sr0
Date: 2008-08-29 00:30:02
I created a new User Account without Admin. Rights, same problem. SecuROM is preventing my optical drive from reading this disc.
-----Original Message-----
From: SecuROM Support [mailto:support@securom.com (support@securom.com)]
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 4:26 AM
To: *******
Subject: [Ticket#2008082610000832] Emailing: AnalysisLog.sr0
Hello,
Thank you for your response. We can understand your frustration with this issue.
Would you please create a new Windows User Account without Adminstrator Rights? Sometimes this works as it is a different communication interface in this non-administrative mode.
To do this, go to:
1. Start button in lower left hand corner 2. Go up to Settings, then over to Control Panel 3. Inside Control Panel folder, go down to User Accounts 4. Follow the directions within this area for the creation of a new User Account. Be sure to create it without Adminstator Rights.
After doing this, please attempt to launch your game using this new account.
Please let us know what your results are.
Best regards,
SecuROM Support Team
SecuROM on the web: http://www.securom.com (http://www.securom.com/) or via e-mail: support@securom.com
*** Please include the subject line exactly as written above including your ticket number in all communications to ensure proper handling ***
---- Message from "**********> ---
From: "*************>
To: "'SecuROM Support'" <support@securom.com>
Subject: RE: [Ticket#2008082610000832] Emailing: AnalysisLog.sr0
Date: 2008-08-27 13:35:09
Hello,
Yes the disc was in the drive during the analysis.
I cannot see or browse the CD/DVD-ROM through MY Computer. I also tried that with a different game that doesn't have SecuROM, Company of Heroes, and I can see COH through My Computer. Apparently SecuROM is blocking my optical drive from seeing/reading MTW2. How do you propose to fix this?
-----Original Message-----
From: SecuROM Support [mailto:support@securom.com (support@securom.com)]
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 2:21 AM
To: *********
Subject: [Ticket#2008082610000832] Emailing: AnalysisLog.sr0
Hello.
Was the disc inserted when you launched the analysis?
Can you see and browse the content of your CD/DVD-ROM in your Windows Explorer or through My Computer?
Best regards,
SecuROM Support Team
SecuROM on the web: http://www.securom.com (http://www.securom.com/) or via e-mail: support@securom.com
*** Please include the subject line exactly as written above including your ticket number in all communications to ensure proper handling ***
---- Message from "*************** ---
From: "*************>
To: <support@securom.com>
Subject: Emailing: AnalysisLog.sr0
Date: 2008-08-26 15:05:04
The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments:
AnalysisLog.sr0
Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled.
When trying to launch the game MTW2 I receive a 'no disk in drive' error message. The correct disk is in the drive, firmware has been updated, disable 'dla' does not recognize the command. Is there a patch to fix this?
I set this account up to say NO I will not buy the game if it comes with this kind of malicious code. I love the series and have spent more of my money on total war than any other game. When will the executive set realize that draconian attempts to crackdown on copywright are the ruination of a software product. Ask microsoft about what a good idea it was to go security crazy in an attempt to protect MSword, only to watch OpenOffice undo their work. Or I'm sure the RIAA could give you some tips on how attacking people who enjoy music will make them better customers.
To bad, I was excited to pay for the next installment of the game. :no:
ArtistofWarfare
09-01-2008, 06:51
testing sigs...please delete this post
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-04-2008, 04:09
testing sigs...please delete this post
When editing your signature, you can simply hit the "preview signature" button to see what it looks like in the form of a post. :bow:
crpcarrot
09-04-2008, 10:56
no i wont
i have every TW title except for kingdoms.
i wont buy it even if its the best TW ever because of invasive software.
Luckily for you it doesn't have "invasive" software, I really don't get people's problem with copy protection. I have had it on my machine for years and nothing has ever gone wrong with it. You all must be really paranoid or pirates... :clown:
Luckily for you it doesn't have "invasive" software, I really don't get people's problem with copy protection. I have had it on my machine for years and nothing has ever gone wrong with it. You all must be really paranoid or pirates... :clown:
Careful, now. You're not implying that the venerable Hosakawa Tito is lying and/or a pirate, are you? ~;)
While I (mostly) kid, it does bring up a valid point: Just because you and I have personally not had problems with SecuROM, it doesn't change the fact that a good number of people *have*. Yes, they're probably in the minority, but a fairly significant minority for all that. People who worry over SecuROM and other invasive copy protection software are perfectly justified in their concerns.
"Would you please create a new Windows User Account without Adminstrator Rights? Sometimes this works as it is a different communication interface in this non-administrative mode."
Roughly translated: "our malware circumvents your OS's permissions and does far too much under a limited user account than is allowed. This is so that we can change how your CDROM drives actually work. This of course shouldn't happen under a limited user account so yes our product is malware."
ArtistofWarfare
09-04-2008, 23:40
Careful, now. You're not implying that the venerable Hosakawa Tito is lying and/or a pirate, are you? ~;)
While I (mostly) kid, it does bring up a valid point: Just because you and I have personally not had problems with SecuROM, it doesn't change the fact that a good number of people *have*. Yes, they're probably in the minority, but a fairly significant minority for all that. People who worry over SecuROM and other invasive copy protection software are perfectly justified in their concerns.
I've now had Securom on and off the drive for over 4 months - Not even the slightest hint of a problem due to it. Nothing.
That said, this post I'm quoting is true - This does nothing to alleviate the frustration of someone who HAS had problems due to SecuROM.
I've said it before: The entire situation is totally and utterly illogical. Creating a piracy protection software package that comes included on the retail version of the game in an attempt to "verify" that people aren't using pirated software, achieves nothing. The guy with the pirated disk is still going to play the game, still not going to pay for it and still never going to see Securom on their drive.
The only person who will ever see Securom on their drive is the guy who bought the retail version. Once again, this does absolutely nothing to minimize pirated copies.
I just don't understand how the sales pitch from Securom to companies even goes. The entire program is literally worthless.
I've said it before: The entire situation is totally and utterly illogical. Creating a piracy protection software package that comes included on the retail version of the game in an attempt to "verify" that people aren't using pirated software, achieves nothing. The guy with the pirated disk is still going to play the game, still not going to pay for it and still never going to see Securom on their drive.
The only person who will ever see Securom on their drive is the guy who bought the retail version. Once again, this does absolutely nothing to minimize pirated copies.
I just don't understand how the sales pitch from Securom to companies even goes. The entire program is literally worthless.
Precisely.
As Brad Wardell (president & owner of game developer/publisher Stardock) has said, copy protection software like SecuROM and Starforce does nothing to reduce actual piracy. What it *does* do, however, is inconvenience legitimate game owners and treat them like criminals....which hurts game sales even further (and probably as much or more than piracy itself does). Stardock's opinion is that there's little that can be done to directly combat piracy, so the next-best thing is to increase sales.
How do they do that? By not having copy protection period, while at the same time providing long-term support (in terms of patches & updates) to people who own legal copies of the game. This system rewards people who've purchased a legitimate copy, while at the same time pirates cannot update their (illegal) game copies (and so still punishes them to some extent).
I know I probably sound like a Stardock fanboy -- I admit I have a tendency to trumpet their approach to copy protection -- and I suppose I am to some extent. That said, however, I also have to admit that what they say makes a lot of sense.
I realize it's probably a vain hope, but I would very much like to see CA/Sega adopt a similar setup for Empire (and all future Total War titles as well). :yes:
i simply hate being at the mercy of an internet connection to decide my ability to install and play a game.
Careful, now. You're not implying that the venerable Hosakawa Tito is lying and/or a pirate, are you? ~;)
While I (mostly) kid, it does bring up a valid point: Just because you and I have personally not had problems with SecuROM, it doesn't change the fact that a good number of people *have*. Yes, they're probably in the minority, but a fairly significant minority for all that. People who worry over SecuROM and other invasive copy protection software are perfectly justified in their concerns.
Well the funny thing is I have not found anywhere, on any forum for a game that contains SecuROM a problem that has been caused by it. But no I wasn't calling HT a liar or a pirate, apologies if it came across that way :bow:
I also appreciate the point that pirates can still get hold of the game but at least it is a little harder for piraters to remove SecuROM. I sympathize for the companies that want to stop this piracy which is eating out of their profit margins, and less profit means less incentive to put hard work into making the games as good as they can be. Seeing people refuse to buy the game because of this attempted piracy protection makes me sad because they end up missing out on great games that they don't know will cause any problems for them, which makes it even harder for the designers to make more money, I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming :shame:
id buy it regardless, i can perfectly enjoy a game without needing to tamper with it
I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming :shame:
I doubt it, sooner or later they have to come up with a protection that is not too intrusive for the customers but will keep off the pirates.........either way, a big part of the games is online play, and only real buyers can use that, so I don't think there'll be a time when everyone goes over to the other side.
I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming :shame:
I don't know, I get the impression that it's not that hard to do at the moment and most people still buy legit copies. In particular, the GalCiv series should be very easy to pirate what with having essentially no copy protection but I believe it has still sold well.
I get the impression PC gamers represent a fairly loyal and intelligent end of the market; most games are part of a long running franchise, and most gamers I suspect have the sense to realise that if too many of them give their money to the pirates instead of the devs, the devs will stop making their favourite games.
ArtistofWarfare
09-06-2008, 23:58
There really is no major threat to PC gaming sales due to piracy. Console games are rampantly pirated - yet you don't see them in any jeopardy.
This is just scare tactics from companies looking to raise their bottom line .3% that's it. Let's be real here too: Whether the CEO of a gaming company can buy a new pair of pants next week or not, is really not a globally important issue.
I say they just bite the bullet of certain expenses (pirated copies) that every company on earth deals with. Nothing's perfect. Not the games they make, nor the market they sell them to.
We've already proven that SecuROM does absolutely NOTHING to limit piracy. It doesn't even lower the number of total pirated copies by one. It is utterly, irrelevant.
As long copy protection is man-made it can also be man-unmade therefore it is just a waste of time.
What they should do is provide good demos, not be months or god beware years late with the release compared to the original release date and
make sure the game can be bought around the world at the same time and not just in the biggest countries at first and then PERHAPS in some smaller ones months later. Eastern and Southern Europe for example. #1 the games cost the same as in Germany or the UK, where the wages are incomparably higher and not only that they cost the same, they arrive on shelves on shops 2-3 months later. And then the publishers wonder why everyone pirates stuff? And since very few really good games have been made lately, by the time the legit versions are available, people get bored with the game and don't buy it anymore.
For example: Tickets to Madonna's concert in Vienna cost €100 or so.
Tickets for Madonna's concert in Budva (Southern Europe) €50.
That's good marketing.
As opposed to this:
(it's a console example because the last game I bought was for PS3 but it serves the purpose)
GTA IV for PS3 - bought online in Canada. With money exchange costs, shipping, taxes and customs it cost me about €50
GTA IV for PS3 - in a games store here in Slovenia - €70
Instead of not giving the chance to copy, first give the chance to BUY THE BLOODY THING!
Evil_Maniac From Mars
09-07-2008, 05:11
(it's a console example because the last game I bought was for PS3 but it serves the purpose)
GTA IV for PS3 - bought online in Canada. With money exchange costs, shipping, taxes and customs it cost me about €50
GTA IV for PS3 - in a games store here in Slovenia - €70
Instead of not giving the chance to copy, first give the chance to BUY THE BLOODY THING!
I know what you mean. In fact, every single game on my computer has been bought either in Canada or as a (paid) download for exactly this reason. It's ridiculous how much they charge us. Adding copy protection is more or less the final straw.
Though I must admit that the problem isn't only video games, but almost everything to do with computers.
Nope wont touch it. Its not whether or not it will be used for mal purposes. Its that they do not have the right to put something of that nature on my property, something that cannot be removed. I guess the love affair stops here.
TevashSzat
09-08-2008, 22:44
I have a horrid feeling that piracy may get out of hand to the point where it kills PC gaming :shame:
Well...not really. Piracy has now become the thing to bash whenever a studio is doing badly.
The game is selling in quantities that are lower than expectations: That can only be because people are pirating it and not because the company made a poor game that did not meet expectations or was just crappy.
Take Crysis for example, one executive I think or at least a high ranking official associated with the game boldly claimed that for ever copy of Crysis sold, 20 were pirated Right......Just to put it in perspective, Crysis has gone platinum so it has sold 1 million legitimate copies already which would mean that 20+ million people have either downloaded it with the intent to play. Just to put this in perspective, Starcraft, the greatest selling RTS ever made: less than 10 million copies including expansion. WoW only has like 11 million subscribers. In fact, the only games that I can remember off the top of my head that sold more copies than 20 million is the original the Sims and all of its expansions combined
Gaming as an industry is dying due to piracy: Yeah...right and its not because the overall quality of PC gaming has decreased ie there are far less innovative games and mostly just cookie cutter, FPS, RTS, RPG, or Sport related games released en mass
Look at DS. No one is proclaiming that DS gaming is dead, but it is the most easily pirated modern gaming apparatus out there. Theres no reason to mess around with torrents, mounting, cracks and stuff. Instead, you download like a 10 mb file, copy it onto a very very cheap disk (forgot what is was called) and you're able to play it just fine without any restrictions whatsoever. Yet, DS games are just selling just fine.
Finally, regarding pirating: people who pirate aren't just jerks who are really cheap and don't want to pay anything. They are those who don't have the money to and probably won't buy any games if they don't pirate. In fact, pirate might expand the consumer bases of some games by simply giving it access to a broader group of people that might end up liking the game and become devoted to the series
I think people are voting with the feelings more than reality. Once game turns out to be great, you all will run and buy a copy. Or get it other way, I ain't judging.
Galain_Ironhide
09-10-2008, 16:46
Look, to be frank I am not even going to read the pages upon pages of threads here, but rather just voice my opinion. However right or wrong this may sound.
I got involved in this type of discussion when Securom was an issue for Kingdoms. I must say all this discussion of Securom certainly steered me away from buying Kingdoms until only like a month or so ago. I bought Kingdoms, installed it and low and behold, the game works fine and the rest of my system works fine too (albeit a dodgy mod download crashed everything to do with m2tw, meaning I had to wipe it all of my hard drive and start over - and no it wasnt a securom issue). I even went as far as commenting in this thread months ago in its infancy and said I would not be buying this game if it was Securomed.
But now, whilst I feel the pain of what the minority of people have had caused to them due to Securom related issues, my view is that if you're a just a normal guy like me who wants to turn on his computer, load a game and play it (and you're not into any other type of programming or wizbang stuff - sorry not very technical minded:no:), then go out and buy Empire because you will not have any trouble.
Then if you happen to uninstall the game for some reason or another (as we all know, after the game is gone, Securom stays in the registry), you can actually download Securom removal tools for free that remove it completely from your registry (after game removal) - Google is a wonderful thing. Now if someone like me can do that, then 99% of other computer illiterates should be able to do the same.
Thanks for hearing me out.
Mikeus Caesar
09-10-2008, 17:25
I'm hoping CA don't tread the evil path, after all, just look at the Spore debacle...
TevashSzat
09-10-2008, 19:55
Then if you happen to uninstall the game for some reason or another (as we all know, after the game is gone, Securom stays in the registry), you can actually download Securom removal tools for free that remove it completely from your registry (after game removal) - Google is a wonderful thing. Now if someone like me can do that, then 99% of other computer illiterates should be able to do the same.
Yes, the issues are with a minority and it doesn't even affect me at all.
The issue is that we shouldn't have to to everything like that. By forcing us to install Securom, these videogame publishers are treating their consumers like criminals from the very beginning. That same logic to justify Securom can also be used to justify having the government wiretap all of your phones. You can argue that if you aren't doing anything illegal, you shouldn't have to fear about wiretaps, but that argument will never win.
Also, in a topic related to this, check out this story: Pickets Form Around Spore's Expanding Galaxy (http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/spore/908638p1.html)
I think people are voting with the feelings more than reality. Once game turns out to be great, you all will run and buy a copy.
I think you underestimate just how much some people despise DRM software. I was very much looking forward to Spore, but ended up not getting it when I found out it was going to include SecuROM. Yesterday, I cancelled my pre-order for Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 (EA just confirmed it was shipping with SecuROM as well).
I was really looking forward to Red Alert 3 -- indeed, it's one of the *very* few games I've ever pre-ordered. Even more than Empire, there's no other game coming out in the next 6 months that I'd looked forward to with as much anticipation. Yet despite how badly I want to play Red Alert, I will not buy it -- ever -- as long as it comes with SecuROM.
Even though Galain_Ironhide is right in that I could probably find a way to uninstall SecuROM, that's not a real solution. I would still be giving my hard-earned money to a publisher that installs DRM on people's computers, which is one thing I flatly refuse to do.
The issue is that we shouldn't have to to everything like that. By forcing us to install Securom, these videogame publishers are treating their consumers like criminals from the very beginning. That same logic to justify Securom can also be used to justify having the government wiretap all of your phones. You can argue that if you aren't doing anything illegal, you shouldn't have to fear about wiretaps, but that argument will never win.
Very well put, TevashSzat. An excellent analogy with the wiretaps. :yes:
I think Galain is correct to point out that at least in the form present on Kingdoms, SecuROM is not a major inconvenience or impediment to playing the game for most players; it's mainly the principle of the thing which is unpleasant, i.e. the company treating its customers as though they are all potential thieves and cannot be trusted. It is still however, not nearly as bad as some of the more draconian incarnations of SecuROM and other DRM, for instance those imposing only 3 installs or requiring weekly online verification, which massively inconvenience the average player by either forcing them to keep the game installed forever and never change computers, or else have their ability to play the game beholden to unreliable internet connections and the goodwill of the company to keep the servers running.
Should Empire ship with such an extreme form of SecuROM or other DRM, I may well decide not to buy it. If it is the same as or similar to the DRM on Kingdoms, I suspect my desire to play the game will win out over my principles and I will buy it anyway, and grumble about it later on the Org. I daresay that many players who are less excited about the game than me though will decide to pass.
I cannot believe this sort of thing is not starting to cost the publishers money. Just look at the Spore fiasco; 1500 1-star reviews on as big a retailer as Amazon must surely be having a major impact on sales. I know for a fact that I myself have decided not to buy several titles that I would otherwise have bought purely because of the heavy handed DRM, including Bioshock, Spore and, like Martok and with a heavy heart, Red Alert 3 (~:mecry:). And I am not a particularly principled consumer; I simply decided that the DRM was not worth the hassle. My hope is that things like the money EA will lose over the Spore fiasco will be enough to scare other developers out of using such heavy-handed measures in future, and we will all get to live in a utopian Stardock-like gaming paradise, where developers release the game without DRM and consumers have the sense to realise that if they want there to be any more sequels, they had better make sure they buy the game legitimately rather than pirating it.
No, I'd spend my money on a Stardock game at that point. At least I'm guranteed a good game, and a game that is supported after it is released.
I'm hoping CA don't tread the evil path, after all, just look at the Spore debacle...
I bought Spore, but i absolutely panned it with a one-star review lambasting the use of intrusive DRM, i will do the same with empire if it is necessary.
Chasing casual gamers will become a perilous exercise when casual gamers are so dependent on customer reviews!
Just checking in to see if the publishers have come to their senses and dropped the DRM malware. I was very disappointed to hear about the inclusion of SecuRome. It is a deal breaker for me and I will not be purchasing a copy of Empire. The real shame is that the two games I most anticipated, Empire and Spore, are both ruined by this junk. In case anyone in power is reading, I will not change my mind and give in at some point. My own security policy does not allow software like this to run.
But, I'll check in once in a while to see if you change your mind. :yes:
Fookison
10-03-2008, 20:01
I've got Kingdoms on my laptop and desktop and haven't had any problems with securerom so far so I voted YES!
Same!! Can't wait to engage in this new title......
Just checking in to see if the publishers have come to their senses and dropped the DRM malware. I was very disappointed to hear about the inclusion of SecuRome. It is a deal breaker for me and I will not be purchasing a copy of Empire. The real shame is that the two games I most anticipated, Empire and Spore, are both ruined by this junk. In case anyone in power is reading, I will not change my mind and give in at some point. My own security policy does not allow software like this to run.
But, I'll check in once in a while to see if you change your mind. :yes:
Just to clarify: CA hasn't said they're dropping SecuROM because they've not yet decided if they're going to include it in the first place. They've mentioned that an "alternate" form of copy protection was being investigated/worked on, but no details have yet been released (nor a final decision reached on whether they'll go with SecuROM or this other system).
hellenes
10-05-2008, 03:20
If Empire ships with a DRM that can be REMOVED...and most importantly NOT installed again when the game launches (as happened with Kingdoms) I will buy it...otherwise I will NOT compromise the security of my bank account for the sake of SEGA/CA....
nameless
10-06-2008, 23:10
I think you underestimate just how much some people despise DRM software. I was very much looking forward to Spore, but ended up not getting it when I found out it was going to include SecuROM. Yesterday, I cancelled my pre-order for Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3 (EA just confirmed it was shipping with SecuROM as well).
I was really looking forward to Red Alert 3 -- indeed, it's one of the *very* few games I've ever pre-ordered. Even more than Empire, there's no other game coming out in the next 6 months that I'd looked forward to with as much anticipation. Yet despite how badly I want to play Red Alert, I will not buy it -- ever -- as long as it comes with SecuROM.
Even though Galain_Ironhide is right in that I could probably find a way to uninstall SecuROM, that's not a real solution. I would still be giving my hard-earned money to a publisher that installs DRM on people's computers, which is one thing I flatly refuse to do.
Correct me if I'm wrong but so far those games belong to EA who seems to be gung-ho about this whole securom thing.
Add in Sims, Mass effect, and Crysis and all of them belong to EA.
Would SEGA or any other game developer follow the same footsteps as they are?
Evil_Maniac From Mars
10-06-2008, 23:47
Would SEGA or any other game developer follow the same footsteps as they are?
SecuROM was installed on Kingdoms and later patches of M2:TW.
nameless
10-07-2008, 00:13
SecuROM was installed on Kingdoms and later patches of M2:TW.
Probably should've been more specific.
When I meant gung-ho I'm talking about the online activation, limited installations and all that other stuff.
Alexander the Pretty Good
10-07-2008, 00:27
I didn't buy Kingdoms; I won't buy Empire if SecuRom is in it.
Sir Beane
10-07-2008, 12:56
If the SecuRom is as bad as it is on Spore and and Mass Effect then there is no way I am installing that on my PC. If necesssary I am prepared to buy the game and then remove the godawful copy protection. That way I get to have a clean PC and CA get the cash they need to keep making great games.
On the other hand if the SecuRom is at the level it is on Kingdoms then I'll risk it.
EDIT: That was still a little too close to discussing no-CD cracks. Sorry. -- Martok
SpencerH
10-09-2008, 02:14
I thought I posted in this thread but I guess I didnt. I will not buy any game with SecuRom.
By the by.... (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=2032172&postcount=18)
The future is cloudy... beyond that I couldn't possibly comment ;) However, the chances of us using SecuROM are -extremely- remote. We'll be announcing something about it soon (tm).
:2thumbsup:
SpencerH
10-09-2008, 13:06
Hopefully it'll be good news.
gardibolt
10-27-2008, 21:49
Anything yet? That was 3 weeks ago....
Megas Methuselah
10-28-2008, 02:56
Patience is a virtue.
No, No way. I downloaded Star Force with Silent Hunter. What a nightmare that was.
The point of a protection is to make it harder on the pirate and softer on the legitimate customer, and as such make it a hassle to pirate the game, and as such make so that people tends to buy it.
Intrusive, irritating, limiting protection makes it harder on the legitimate customer (who has to fight the protection everytime, bother with annoying "keep your CD in the drive at all time, have some software tools be hampered, suffer to have hidden malware in your computer"), and they make it softer on the pirate, who usually get an "install and forget" version.
Guess what happens then ?
You got it. People tends to go for the less-annoying pirated versions.
That's simple facts : if you make it hard for people who buy the game, and easy for people who pirate it... well, you got yourself a lot of new pirates. Seems Captain Obvious logic to me, and still idiotic publishers still try to push down our throat stupid "protections" which only effect is pushing to people to pirate MORE.
I was not very interested in E:TW because I don't like gunpowder warfare, I was even less thrilled by it because they seem to follow the moronic path of MTW2 gameplay's butchery (namely : slaughtering the units' mechanisms to have fancy animations), but any hint of annoying copy protection will make it a 100 % "no deal".
Remember, publishers : the ONLY thing that make people buy rather than pirate software, is their sense of duty and loyalty. Because anyone can download a pirated game with even less efforts than bothering to go to the next game store and buy. Try to mess with your customer, by annoying them with stupid copy protection, and you'll only ends up with irritated people not keen to endure the hassle, and keeping their money to themselves.
Don't be stupid, publisher, be respectful. That's probably a much more profitable way for everyone.
Just a few thoughts:
I agree, that a game distributor should tell you about everything the game installs on your computer. It's not ok that SecuROM installs hidden and it's not even mentioned. But as we see with Empire, IF it contains SecuROM it seems they're telling us this time.
As for the rights of a customer:
YES, the owner of a PC should be allowed to install on it, whatever he likes and ONLY that.
NO, a person who purchases a CD does not automatically have the right to make personal backup copies (or any copies) of it. Only the owner of the program has the right to give or refuse the customer this right. If they choose not to give us this right... that's their right and we'll have to live with it, after all, no one forces us to buy their games.
If Sega/CA announce that there is SecuROM on Empire... well that's perfectly fine... We'll know it's there and it's their right to put whatever they want on there.. we're not forced to buy it!
that said I'd still prefer it not being there but I don't understand people calling them criminals or unfair or whatever... it's their right, just as we have the right to buy or not buy a game.
hellenes
10-28-2008, 14:44
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/55354
A kick in the teeth by Blizzard....the most successful developer=publisher on the planet...should CA/SEGA take some lessons?
No Securom here: the game will use Steam at retail (http://store.steampowered.com/news/1940/).
hellenes
10-28-2008, 16:52
No Securom here: the game will use Steam at retail (http://store.steampowered.com/news/1940/).
Im happy!!!! But Im also sad for people without internet access and the fact that even steam wont do nothing on copy protection front....NBA2k9 proved that beyond doubt....
Intrepid Sidekick
10-28-2008, 17:15
I've been have been burning to tell you about this for ages! But I had to keep my lips sealed until now.
So now you know.
We hope this is the kind of news you wanted to hear/read :beam::balloon2::book:
As you will have seen in Kieran's interview recently we are looking to create a happy multiplayer community and we understand that some haven't felt that we have done as well as we should. We feel that with Steam's support we can deliver the experience you have been asking for in a number of ways that you will find interesting.:inquisitive:
SpencerH
10-28-2008, 17:29
So how does Steam effect me as a (potential) single player of ETW?
So how does Steam effect me as a (potential) single player of ETW?
You'll need to be online when you install it, and Steam will start before the game runs.
This works for me. Good choice CA. :2thumbsup:
So, Empire is in the have to buy, no matter what list for me, now.
You'll need to be online when you install it, and Steam will start before the game runs.
You need to be online only the first time you start it, for single player that is, thereafter you can play single player offline too.
Intrepid Sidekick
10-28-2008, 18:53
As a Single Player you just need to go online once for authentication and activation.
Also any time you do go online with Steam, it will automatically inform you of any updates and patches that have been made available. You will be informed of any other Empire related news too.
gardibolt
10-28-2008, 20:31
I've been have been burning to tell you about this for ages! But I had to keep my lips sealed until now.
So now you know.
We hope this is the kind of news you wanted to hear/read :beam::balloon2::book:
Yes, indeedy! This is now on my To Purchase Definitely list instead of my Uh, No Thanks list. Thank you VERY much.
Any chance of a version of Kingdoms via Steam without Securom? I'd buy that too. :idea2:
Hosakawa Tito
10-28-2008, 20:59
I've never used Steam, but it sounds similar to the way Company of Heroes works. Welcome news indeed.
SpencerH
10-28-2008, 22:36
As a Single Player you just need to go online once for authentication and activation.
Also any time you do go online with Steam, it will automatically inform you of any updates and patches that have been made available. You will be informed of any other Empire related news too.
It seems like a good decision. :2thumbsup:
So can we confirm then; no install limit, no need for subsequent online verification after the initial activation for a given installation, and no hard-to-delete files left behind after uninstalling? Just a single simple online activation each time I reinstall the game?
If so, this is very good news indeed. Steam is definitely something I can live with. :beam:
I guess I can now finally cast my vote in the poll in this thread; "will I buy a SecuRomed Empire?" No, because I won't be able to. ~;)
One question though: Does this have any implications for modding? Is there any danger that me mucking about with the game files in the carefree way I tend to may cause problems with Steam? Conversely, will Steam be used to provide resources for modders?
In fact, more information generally on moddability would be much appreciated here.
Alexander the Pretty Good
10-29-2008, 00:46
Now can I buy a boxed version without dealing with Steam without DRM? Or has the series moved solidly onto Steam as a distribution model?
BananaBob
10-29-2008, 03:18
excellent! :beam:
Evil_Maniac From Mars
10-29-2008, 03:41
Now can I buy a boxed version without dealing with Steam without DRM?
You can buy a boxed version, but I think you still have to use Steam.
You can buy a boxed version, but I think you still have to use Steam.
Yes that is correct atleast judging from CA's response.
Wait, hang on, I LOVE the idea of online activation, far and away better then SecuRom, but at the same time, I have to ask - what about the people who don't have internet but want to play ETW? OR, what happens if someone loses internet access and has to reinstall ETW? He has a useless hunk of a game?
Better than it becoming useless despite the internet after 5 install attempts...... :clown:
SpencerH
10-29-2008, 17:43
I'm interested in how (and if) this will work for a desktop and laptop installation. Only one version will be in use at any time.
As a Single Player you just need to go online once for authentication and activation.
Also any time you do go online with Steam, it will automatically inform you of any updates and patches that have been made available. You will be informed of any other Empire related news too.
This is exceedingly good news. Thanks IS. :bow:
Discoman
10-30-2008, 01:07
Using Steam sounds really cool, and its nice to know I can play the game without the disk. The only thing I don't like is Steam running in the backround, which always lags my computer.
seireikhaan
10-30-2008, 02:44
This makes me a happy man. I am, as of now, actually very much considering buying this game.
Wait, hang on, I LOVE the idea of online activation, far and away better then SecuRom, but at the same time, I have to ask - what about the people who don't have internet but want to play ETW? OR, what happens if someone loses internet access and has to reinstall ETW? He has a useless hunk of a game?
That is really the same problem with the latest Securom which also requires a internet connection.
So in the end we come out on top since as mentioned, there isn't an install limit atleast.
But people with no internet is like the people without a DVD-rom drive, the minority.
An loss in income for CA but small enough to make it not noticable.
TBF it's not exactly as though you need a fancy broadband connection in order to use Steam; you can always use a free trial dial-up connection to activate using Steam, so it mostly requires you to have a phone line.
It's inconvenient for those who don't normally have an internet connection, but it's not as bad as requiring it to phone home every few days; that would make the game pretty much impossible to play without a regular internet connection.
hellenes
10-30-2008, 19:57
TBF it's not exactly as though you need a fancy broadband connection in order to use Steam; you can always use a free trial dial-up connection to activate using Steam, so it mostly requires you to have a phone line.
It's inconvenient for those who don't normally have an internet connection, but it's not as bad as requiring it to phone home every few days; that would make the game pretty much impossible to play without a regular internet connection.
The funny thing is that people without an internet connection cannot pirate because they have no access...so these people are mostly legally paying customers....by making an online only game SEGA alienates the very people that were buying their games regularly...
Again, if the game had Securom, it will still make people with no internet unable to play the game.
So CA really only wins from this.
Again, if the game had Securom, it will still make people with no internet unable to play the game.
So CA really only wins from this.
That's not really true. Kingdoms has Securom, but it doesn't require the internet to play. I am sure in the interests of keeping as many customer available though, CA will most likely have an alternative way for those who do not or do not want the internet access on their computer.
That's not really true. Kingdoms has Securom, but it doesn't require the internet to play. I am sure in the interests of keeping as many customer available though, CA will most likely have an alternative way for those who do not or do not want the internet access on their computer.
Kingsdoms didn't have the latest Securom.
The latest Securom requires an internet connection in order to validate your copy.
Megas Methuselah
10-30-2008, 22:42
Come what may, we all agree that STEAM is a much better choice than SecuRom. :yes:
Come what may, we all agree that STEAM is a much better choice than SecuRom. :yes:
Agreed, there is no doubt to that :2thumbsup:
SirRethcir
10-31-2008, 01:44
Come what may, we all agree that STEAM is a much better choice than SecuRom. :yes:Ehm, no. :no:
If online activation is required, CA will lose a few old fans. :shame:
Megas Methuselah
10-31-2008, 02:28
... How? You seem to have internet connection. From what I hear, the internet will only be needed once when you first get the game...? :inquisitive:
Sir Beane
10-31-2008, 02:58
Given the current trend towards ever more invasive and irritating copy protection I applaud whoever made the decision to use STEAM.
A one-time online activation is a small small price to pay compared to what could have been required. With this decision CA have definitely secured my purchase, this wouldn't have been the case if Empire was like Spore, or Mass Effect.
Nebuchadnezzar
10-31-2008, 03:11
... How? You seem to have internet connection. From what I hear, the internet will only be needed once when you first get the game...? :inquisitive:
Probably like me
I have all TW games. The only games I own.
I have broadband at work and a gaming computer at home with no internet. It costs me $100+ p/m to have it at work and it allows me to do all my net stuff, email and forum so why pay for at home as well since I haven't needed up till now, at least. Would I enter a new contract and pay $40-$50 a month for a min 6months to activate a game. No!
Would I lug it down to ground floor through numerous corridors and down to the carpark to load it into my car. Then take it to work to activate it and back again. No!
Ghost of Rom
10-31-2008, 03:19
Where does the activation code reside on your pc? In the game files or the registry?
Oleander Ardens
10-31-2008, 07:45
Seems fair to me.
atheotes
11-05-2008, 22:57
i dont think a one time online activation is too bad when compared to securom....:2thumbsup: but as some have said it might be painful for people like Nebuchadnezzar...:shame:
Julius_Nepos
11-05-2008, 23:20
It's not the copy protection, per-se that gets under my skin. Rather its the install limitations. Now, I realize the financial incentive for game makers to impose these limits, and thereby limit the resale of games in the used market. As I understand it this is done online and one game gets linked to one E-mail account or some such and thus it certainly precludes sale after the fact. But I still feel constrained to not support this kind of nonsense, at least symbolically. Games like Mass Effect, Spore and Red Alert 3 are on my PC black list given their install limits. I DO have Mass Effect for the Xbox 360, so this isn't some kind of attempted boycott, its just my only means of voicing my displeasure at how things are progressing. If ETW had come out with SecuROM and install-limitations, I probably would have had to pass. I'd want the game very much, but I'm also not going to involve myself in that sort of DRM scheme either.
The fact that ETW seems to be linked to the Steam system is acceptable to me, I've only had minor problems with the service and its not intrusive, nor has it behaved badly in terms of compatibility with other components of my system. I shouldn't have any problems with the direction CA is taking here.
Megas Methuselah
11-06-2008, 01:43
So, in short, you're just a little unsettled by the neccessary installation limitations of STEAM and, as a result, you will only hesitatingly buy ETW with caution. Am I right? :smile:
I don't thing CA will be using SecuRom. It seems SecuRom has upset some people. Check out this lawsuit site.
http://reclaimyourgame.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=17&Itemid=57
CA/Sega has already announced (http://www.sega.co.uk/news/?n=2427) that they're using Steam for Empire, and will not be including SecuROM in any way. ~:)
Given that, I'm closing this thread as the subject is now a moot point. If you wish to discuss Empire using Steam, you can do so here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=109301).
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