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Taranaich
02-03-2008, 22:10
Aquilonia. Nemedia. Koth. Argos. Zingara. Corinthia. Ophir. Brythunia. Hyperborea. The Border Kingdom. The Picts. The Cimmerians. The Æsir. The Vanir. Turan. The Hyrkanians. Ghulistan. Vendhya. Kosala. Iranistan. Pelishtia. The Zuagir. Khitai. Stygia. Zamora. Kush. Tombalku. Keshan. Zembabwei.

One place remains. Which nation shall join the great bloody brawl that is the Hyborian Age?

I'm still unsure how best to approach the final faction (and it's a long way off before I can even think of implementing it) but I thought it would be good to open it up to the community to see if there are any ideas, and also a small poll to see if there's any strong feeling for any of the faction choices.

The Choices Are:

Khauran. A proud kingdom on the far eastern border of Koth, Khauran is right in the firing lines of Turan. Although Queen Taramis has held Yezdigerd at bay with tribute and canny politics, eventually the small kingdom will have to face the might of Turan's army. Caught between the juggernauts of Koth and Turan, Zamora to the north and the Zuagir to the south, Khauran's situation looks bleak. However, a fortified position on the Kothian Escarpment gives them a great defense against attack.
Pros: A very challenging game.
Cons: Khauran may already have been conquered by Turan by the time of Conan's reign, and the Turanian threat may be too powerful for a fun game. Not a particularly exiting unit list.

Khoraja. Another of the smaller nations to splinter from Koth, Khoraja occupies a very important site: Shamla Pass. This is a break on the vast Kothian Escarpment which rises sharply from the desert, forming great mile-high cliffs that stretch horizon to horizon. Kothic adventurers took this strategic point from Shemite tribes, and broke away from Koth to form their own realm. Like its sister nation Khauran, Khoraja is caught between larger nations: in Khoraja's case, Koth and Pelishtia, though the spectre of Stygia is ever present. Its position on the Escarpment offers natural fortification, and Shamla Pass is an important trade route between south and north, so Khoraja is a rich and important little kingdom.
Pros: A challenging game.
Cons: It might be a bit too small to survive on its own. Not a particularly exciting unit list.

The Kozaks. A new people born on the eastern steppes formed of mercenaries, outlaws, brigands and the indigenous tribes, the Kozaks have been a menace to civilized nations since their formation some 50 years ago. Utilizing a hit-and-run style of warfare reminiscent of their Turanian enemies, the Kozaks live in the saddle, rarely settling except in one of their hidden camps. There are two major Kozak groups: the Zaporoskans and the Illbars, named for the rivers they control, though smaller groups doubtlessly exist.
Pros: Unique Kozak units, challenging game.
Cons: Might not actually exist in Conan's time since Turan's expansion; if they do, then it'll be a challenge simply surviving.

Minor Contenders:

Punt. A land of riches, the people of Punt wash gold from their rivers in wicker baskets, and worship an ivory woman. Unfortunately these riches make Punt a target for their neighbours Keshan and Zembabwei, to the point where they conspired to join forces to plunder the nation. This is all the Nemedian Chronicles tell us of Punt, so anything else would be conjecture based on what is known of their neighbours and possible descendants.
Pros: Liven up the Black Kingdoms!
Cons: next to nothing known about them.

Atlaia. Nothing is known of the mysterious nation of Atlaia save its name, so everything would be conjecture.
Pros: Liven up Black Kingdoms!
Cons: next to nothing known about them.

Amazon. Like Atlaia, only the name of Amazon is known, but the obvious connotations of later Amazonian myth would allow for an... ahem... interesting unit list.
Pros: A matriarchal/gynocentric faction would certainly be interesting. Lots of cool units. Aaaaand... Liven up Black Kingdoms!
Cons: next to nothing known about them.

Darfar. Darfar seems to be a wilderness rather than a Kingdom proper, but the filed-toothed cannibals with kinky haircuts would be interesting.
Pros: Liven up Black Kingdoms!
Cons: Probably not a "real" kingdom, so another kingdom would be more deserving.

If anyone can think of another faction, or a particular reason for one of these that I haven't said, then by all means suggest them.:2thumbsup:

born2dive67
02-04-2008, 14:27
that was easy, but biased choice, i just want to have scatily clad female warriors to look at lol

Helgi
02-04-2008, 19:25
Could have gone with either the Amazons, Khauran or Khoraja, so I went with Khauran, who knows?

SixFeetUnder14w
02-04-2008, 23:18
I CANT VOTE!? The Jewish trickery!

Antagonist
02-05-2008, 13:30
I kind of like the Amazons as well - particularly since (AFAIK) what little Howard mentions of them at least makes them sound like something vaguely plausible (based on things like the Dahomey Amazons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons)) as against a nation of blond women in a jungle where everyone else is sub-Saharan African. Ultimately what decides me on a faction over anything else is uniqueness of the unit roster, and their's would presumably be unique even if not large.

Khauran and Khoraja do sound interesting, but in my experience small factions in the path of big ones tend to get quickly steamrollered in TW...

Antagonist

Spartan198
02-05-2008, 14:00
Does the last faction have to be in the actual campaign?
If not,then here's an idea: Why not take a somewhat generic bodyguard unit with a buxom blonde beauty in command,give it incredibly high stats (but not as high as King Conan),rename it "Valeria" (I'd imagine you know where I'm going by now),then gather a roster of the game's best mercenaries (human mercs,of course),and call it the "Red Brotherhood" or "Free Companions"? :idea2: They could,perhaps,start out as an incredibly powerful horde (there'd,of course,need to be at least three or four horde units to start with) somewhere on the continent.
Or,even if you did want them playable,it could be like starting a campaign from literally nothing to building a type of "mercenary nation"? :book:

But,if my above idea doesn't seem worthwhile (or if Valeria is already doing something else for the campaign),consider my vote (probably predictably) in the "Amazonia" bin (just do any nudity tastefully,like REH,and not for the simple purpose of "naked boobs and butts for everyone" :laugh4: ).

Spartan198
02-05-2008, 14:01
Khauran and Khoraja do sound interesting, but in my experience small factions in the path of big ones tend to get quickly steamrollered in TW...

Like the poor Seleucid Empire?

Taranaich
02-06-2008, 14:25
Lots of good stuff guys!


I kind of like the Amazons as well - particularly since (AFAIK) what little Howard mentions of them at least makes them sound like something vaguely plausible (based on things like the Dahomey Amazons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons)) as against a nation of blond women in a jungle where everyone else is sub-Saharan African. Ultimately what decides me on a faction over anything else is uniqueness of the unit roster, and their's would presumably be unique even if not large.

Well, this is the full sum of what Howard has to say of Amazon:

South of Stygia are the vast black kingdoms of the Amazons, the Kushites, the Atlaians and the hybrid empire of Zembabwei. - The Hyborian Age

The (Hyrkanians), after their conquest of Shem, had overthrown a Stygian army at the Nilus and over-run the country as far south as the black kingdom of Amazon, of whose people they brought back thousands as captives, settling them among the Shemites. - The Hyborian Age

So basically all we know is that it is a "vast" black kingdom south of Stygia. Interestingly it's listed first of the kingdoms, before the more well-known Kush or Empire of Zembabwei: does this mean it's bigger or more powerful? In any case, knowing Howard it seems likely he was wanting to evoke the mythological/historical Amazons for the kingdom.

Regarding their ethnicity: though it would be logical to presume that the Amazons would be black (considering it's a black kingdom), there are a surprising number of African legends regarding lighter-skinned warrior women. An interesting connection has Diodorus Siculus detailing an Amazon army assisting Egypt in repelling a Lybian invasion in the Bronze Age. These Amazons went on to conquer and settle in Hesperia (now thought to be Morocco). To this day, the Berbers of Morroco tell tales of the Azoun women warriors, and the Tuareg have a legend of white warrior women in the Ahagghar Mountains in Algeria.

I'm probably going to make the Amazons either black, or (partially) Shemite: a lot of black kingdoms (Keshan and Zembabwei especially) have a strong Shemite or Stygian strain, or even a split Shemite/Black population. Perhaps the Amazon Women are Shemite women revered as semi-divine by the black males (like the Puntans and Keshans worship "Ivory-skinned goddesses"), and form the warrior caste. Of course, there's also the Dahomey Amazons to consider, which Howard would probably have been familiar with. I'll have to explore this more with the scholars.

In any case, they won't be pale blonde waifs: these girls will look like they could break a normal man in two!


Khauran and Khoraja do sound interesting, but in my experience small factions in the path of big ones tend to get quickly steamrollered in TW...

Khoraja would probably have a better time of it than Khauran since it isn't quite as close to Turan, and they seem to do well against overwhelming odds (Under Conan, some 14,000 Khorajans and mercenaries defeated Natohk's 100,000 strong horde of Stygians, Shemites and Kushites, which is pretty impressive)


Does the last faction have to be in the actual campaign?
If not,then here's an idea: Why not take a somewhat generic bodyguard unit with a buxom blonde beauty in command,give it incredibly high stats (but not as high as King Conan),rename it "Valeria" (I'd imagine you know where I'm going by now),then gather a roster of the game's best mercenaries (human mercs,of course),and call it the "Red Brotherhood" or "Free Companions"? :idea2: They could,perhaps,start out as an incredibly powerful horde (there'd,of course,need to be at least three or four horde units to start with) somewhere on the continent.
Or,even if you did want them playable,it could be like starting a campaign from literally nothing to building a type of "mercenary nation"? :book:

That's actually a really cool idea. We have incidents in history of mercenaries taking over - the Sons of Mars being a prime example - and Howard himself has the Kozaks adopting an independent nomadic lifestyle. It's certainly worth considering.


But,if my above idea doesn't seem worthwhile (or if Valeria is already doing something else for the campaign),consider my vote (probably predictably) in the "Amazonia" bin (just do any nudity tastefully,like REH,and not for the simple purpose of "naked boobs and butts for everyone" :laugh4: ).

Well to be honest I wasn't sure what exactly to do with Valeria: I had intended to make her a "special mercenary unit" that would crop up every so often for the player to hire (it would be a unit of swordsmen with her as an officer), but I'm open to suggestions too.

Spartan198
02-07-2008, 13:23
Well to be honest I wasn't sure what exactly to do with Valeria: I had intended to make her a "special mercenary unit" that would crop up every so often for the player to hire (it would be a unit of swordsmen with her as an officer), but I'm open to suggestions too.

As in a recruitable mercenary general? What you should do is give her and her unit incredibly high stats rivaling King Conan and the Black Dragons,to simulate her as his equal,but make her holdable for a certain amount of turns before she moves on. Valeria's not the type of woman to basically "sell herself" to a faction. I'm sure we both know why she was on the run in the beginning of "Red Nails",after all.

Edit: Just out of curiousity,have you worked out anything yet on the idea of making factional leadership and generalship equal to the sexes? You mentioned something about it a while back, and even your listed Ophirean faction leader is a queen.

Taranaich
02-07-2008, 17:41
As in a recruitable mercenary general? What you should do is give her and her unit incredibly high stats rivaling King Conan and the Black Dragons,to simulate her as his equal,but make her holdable for a certain amount of turns before she moves on. Valeria's not the type of woman to basically "sell herself" to a faction. I'm sure we both know why she was on the run in the beginning of "Red Nails",after all.

Heh, true. That might be the sort of thing I do with her.


Edit: Just out of curiousity,have you worked out anything yet on the idea of making factional leadership and generalship equal to the sexes? You mentioned something about it a while back, and even your listed Ophirean faction leader is a queen.

I don't think it's possible to make new queens as faction leaders, but it is possible to give unique models to faction leaders and heirs for the start of the game: this is what I plan for Olivia and Sancha (and eventually Yasmina), as well as Countesses Belesa and Tina, and the rebel queens Taramis of Khauran, Yasmela of Khoraja, Tamuris of Eruk and the as-yet unnamed queen of the Amazons.

There are some drawbacks: no "official" spouses - otherwise we'd have lesbian queens - but they'd have Prince Consort ancillaries. They'd also have no speech on the battlefield, otherwise they'd have somewhat deep and unladylike voices. However, I think they're fair enough concessions to having proper queens on the battlefield.

Spartan198
02-07-2008, 18:02
I'm guessing Sancha will be queen of Zingara?

Taranaich
02-07-2008, 20:44
And Countess Belesa as the "heir". :2thumbsup: