As some of you may (or may not) remember a while ago Tux floated around the idea around for a face database thread in this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux
Anyway I'm thinking of creating a thread were everyone can post the faces they would wish to see in EB2's units.
This would help us, artists, since we wouldn't lose time searching for useful pics however I would need a volunteer to coordonate the thread. But if no one volunteers then no problem I'll just drop this idea.~:)
So with Tux's blessing I am volunteering to start and manage...
The EBII Face Database
As Tux says having a easily accessible database will make the EB team's job easier and speed the release of the mod which is good news for everyone. This is a chance for the fans to make a contribution to the mod we all know and love and who knows, if you lucky your face could end up in the game, maybe on a frenzied nudist Gaesatae hacking away at his enemies:clown:.
The face images will be divided into regional groups to allow the EB guys to easily navigate what will hopefully be a sizable collection of faces from all over the EB map.
Northern Europe
(Light Green)Faces from the following countries will go here: Ireland, UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, Austria, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Moldova, Estonia, Lithuania, Lativia.
Southern Europe
(Red)Faces from the following countries will go here: Portugal, Spain, Italy, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, FYRO Macedonia, Bulgaria, Greece.
The Upper Nile & Eastern Sahara
(Light Orange)Faces from the following countries will go here: Sudan, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, Niger, Chad, Djibouti.
If anyone has any issues with the choice of regional groups please feel free to say so, I freely admit my knowledge of some areas is not perfect so if southern Arabians look considerable different from northern or people from the Caucasus's don't look any different from those in Anatolia please let me know. I'm also open to new group suggestions if anyone has any.:yes:
**Important**When you post you picture please state what region you think they should be in as well as what rough group you think they would suit (Celtic, Germanic, Greek, Iranian etc). This will help if I ever need to do some rearrangement of the regional groups.
Also if you can give the exact place of origin for a face (like "Yemen" or "Poland") then do so but this is by no means essential and would just be a bonus.**Important**
Finally
**!!PLEASE POST YOU PICTURES AS LINKS!!**
This prevents the thread from having ridiculous loading times due to multiple pictures trying to load when opened.
Really Finally
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
For most of the regions in the EB map people would look very similar to how they looked in 272bc.
The EB historians are the ones who will pick which faces go to which peoples, so rest assured they won't choose a face that doesn't match up historically.
Can people please stop asking this question now:wall:.
Bobbin
11-16-2009, 02:40
bobbin
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Tux's Requirments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tux
To create realistic and quick faces we prefer to use pictures from real persons and modify them by adding beards, scars and other features. Thus to help our work we need pictures that satisfy some requierements:
-the picture should have an resolution of at least 240*300(of the head area);
-there shouldn't any lights that light only part of the face;
-the angle on which you view the face should be straight; (
Some optional requierments:
-they should have their mouth closed
-eyes should be open
*Note: Click on the images to see the size needed*
On top of what Tux suggested I recommend that the face should be relatively unobscured by things such as hair and other objects (Beards are fine though) and obviously no things things such as glasses or sunshades. Photos should also be in colour.
On a final note feel free to send in your own face along with any others if you wish and if your lucky it might end up in the mod.
11-16-2009, 03:22
A Very Super Market
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Keep in mind that populations do move around though. A Tunisian EB player probably wouldn't look anything like a Carthaginian.
11-16-2009, 03:46
bobbin
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Actually most Tunisians would look quite similar to the majority of the Carthaginian population and their soldiers (ie Bebers) as genetically little has changed.
In most cases the underlying gentics of a region is rarely affected by invasion and migration all that happens is people start to identify themselves with the newcomers and abandon their old ethnic identity, Britons despite seeing multiple migrations and invasions share at very least 50% and usually much more of thier genes with the orginal settlers of the island, same goes for Turkey where dispite the majority of the popuation identifying as Turkish genetically their little different from the people of Anatolia in EB's timeframe.
11-16-2009, 03:57
A Very Super Market
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Really? Well, excluding my poor example, what about all those tribes that were forcefully pushed out by the huns?
11-16-2009, 04:04
satalexton
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
too few to make a difference. The reason they're pushed out cuz they're not dead, the Huns killed them all.
11-16-2009, 04:34
bobbin
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Well the Huns didn't have much of an impact otherwise whole areas of eastern europe would have mongolian features, plus they didn't drive out the entire population of a region when they took over and large parts of their armies were other european tribes that would have looked similar to to the conquered people. Even in France which bore the brunt of the migration period the genetics didn't change by that much.
Have a look at the demographic's section in most countries Wiki pages and there will usually be a little bit about population genetics.
This page also has some interesting maps showing the various distrubutions of genetic halotypes in europe and their origins.
11-16-2009, 12:14
KARTLOS
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Actually most Tunisians would look quite similar to the majority of the Carthaginian population and their soldiers (ie Bebers) as genetically little has changed.
In most cases the underlying gentics of a region is rarely affected by invasion and migration all that happens is people start to identify themselves with the newcomers and abandon their old ethnic identity, Britons despite seeing multiple migrations and invasions share at very least 50% and usually much more of thier genes with the orginal settlers of the island, same goes for Turkey where dispite the majority of the popuation identifying as Turkish genetically their little different from the people of Anatolia in EB's timeframe.
even if the underlying genetics are fairly consistent, it does not take require a big influx to make a big impact - particularly if the phenotype of the new stock is very distinct.
Consider for example what happens when you mix some of black African descent with a European. The typical black african features e.g skin colour, hair type, facial features are quite strong and distinct from those of a european. In a practical sense this means that if you had only one black grandparent your lineage would still be obvious.
this is particularly pertinent in North Africa, where there has been a considerable intermixing with people of sub- saharan (e.g "black" african) descent over the past 2000yrs, and particularly since the arrival of islam. This is particularly obvious in Egypt which has always had strong links to sub saharan africa, and in morrocco where there was a deliberate use of black slave armies.
This influx would have occured on a much smaller scale in the time of E.b and it is fair to say that in many instances North Africans no longer resemble the peoples who inhabited that region in the time frame of Eb
11-16-2009, 12:52
bobbin
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Okay the requiements are up so I'll get the ball rolling with this grim looking guy perfect for a Gaul.
Sebastian Chabal a French rugby player
I am Cree, Saulteaux, and Metis. Can you use my pretty face?
Yeah sure just say which region group you think you should go in and I'll pop you in there.
11-16-2009, 13:36
bobbin
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by KARTLOS
even if the underlying genetics are fairly consistent, it does not take require a big influx to make a big impact - particularly if the phenotype of the new stock is very distinct.
Consider for example what happens when you mix some of black African descent with a European. The typical black african features e.g skin colour, hair type, facial features are quite strong and distinct from those of a european. In a practical sense this means that if you had only one black grandparent your lineage would still be obvious.
this is particularly pertinent in North Africa, where there has been a considerable intermixing with people of sub- saharan (e.g "black" african) descent over the past 2000yrs, and particularly since the arrival of islam. This is particularly obvious in Egypt which has always had strong links to sub saharan africa, and in morrocco where there was a deliberate use of black slave armies.
This influx would have occured on a much smaller scale in the time of E.b and it is fair to say that in many instances North Africans no longer resemble the peoples who inhabited that region in the time frame of Eb
I wouldnt agree with that, while i'm sure there are some people and some areas that have noticable african descent the large majority of north africans would look similar to those in EB's timeframe as the numbers moving into the region would be too small to drasticly effect the look of the people.
As for the black grandparent thing you'd be surprised how quickly such noticable features can disappear, a friend of my mother's didn't even know that his great-grandfather was Tamil until he saw an old family photograph with him in, up until that point he thought he was 100% British.
Anyway its all beside the point as this is just a database, the EB skinners will decide what faces to use and will no doubt pick the most appropriate.
11-16-2009, 13:41
Tux
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Anyway its all beside the point as this is just a database, the EB skinners will decide what faces to use and will no doubt pick the most appropriate.
In fact the historians will choose them.~:) Of course we will do the same thing but mostly like proposals for them.
11-16-2009, 14:47
Subotan
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbin
Anyway its all beside the point as this is just a database, the EB skinners will decide what faces to use and will no doubt pick the most appropriate.
My face is very appropriate :snobby:. Do you think they'd prefer a slightly fuzzy upper lip, or totally clean shaven?
Seriously though, is there a possibility that we'll end up with a series of stereotypes, as the skinner may pick the face with the most "Celtic" or "Indian" characteristics?
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Guys stop the spamming, it isn't helpful. If you wish to see your face in our units then at least make them fit the requierments.
The thread has just been opened and out of all the posts there are only 2 with submissions. Also if you wish to discuss how much the genetics have changed from antiquity then make another thread.
This is a face database thread and not a personal chat thread.
11-16-2009, 15:46
Genava
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Ahh to bad this pic isn't exactly seen from the front.:no: It would have been really nice to use on a unit.
11-16-2009, 16:17
bobbin
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotan
Seriously though, is there a possibility that we'll end up with a series of stereotypes, as the skinner may pick the face with the most "Celtic" or "Indian" characteristics?
As Tux said its the EB Historians who will decide what faces to use so that shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Pic from Subotan added
Pic from Genava added
11-16-2009, 16:38
Genava
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Can you get some bigger pictures of their faces? those are a little small, remember a minimum of 240*300 pixels for the face area.
Something about this size would be ideal (but this is obviously not suitable due to the helmet obscuring the face.)
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skullheadhq
Some of these Celt-Re-enactors look more North African than Celtic :laugh4:
:inquisitive: I know that France counts too many Maghrebians but in the Celtic re-enactment there is very little of them. Which photo makes you think that?
11-16-2009, 18:56
Zradha Pahlavan
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Western steppe doesn't just mean the Sauromate and Scythians it also includes the ancestors of the Slavs hence him going in that group, I can see your argument for having him in the Northern Europe section though.
Nice picture Zadra Pahlavan added it to the database.
11-16-2009, 21:26
Subotan
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Hehe I already knew the man with the back mustache, and in fact I alredy used his face for a sauromatae unit... (but with a smaller mustache):beam:
Keep in mind that the pictures have to be of good quality, and the faces have to be seen from the front. It's better if the faces have no expression (no smile, etc, but they can look a bit angry), and a good lightning too.
Now show your faces !:beam:
11-16-2009, 21:54
Subotan
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustave
Hehe I already knew the man with the back mustache, and in fact I alredy used his face for a sauromatae unit... (but with a smaller mustache):beam:
Heh, awesome :beam:
Although his long moustache is just part of the appeal :beam:
Btw, do they have to be "barbarian", as it were, or can they just be like a picture of me in my house in a t-shirt?
11-16-2009, 22:09
Tux
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subotan
Btw, do they have to be "barbarian", as it were, or can they just be like a picture of me in my house in a t-shirt?
They can look however you wish, we're interested in the face features.
But let's keep in mind age, some or too old to be a soldier so I would suggest to bobbin, if it's not too much trouble, to make another section called ancillary as they might be used there.
11-16-2009, 22:43
Ibrahim
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
well, you can use that Syrian guy. but here's a few more; I don't know how much good they will be though. most are from royal families (al sabaha and al-saud), who are nomadic in decent, so they have minimal "foreign" influence. not many were facing forward though, and these are far from perfect. :sad:
and yes, typing in "arabs" reveals few other generic types. I myself am ineligeable because my family has had too much Kurdish influence (on dad's side). that gave us all light brown or blond hair-a rarity in Arabs.
11-16-2009, 23:42
Subotan
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Re: The EB Face Database: Faces Required For EBII!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustave
Hehe I already knew the man with the back mustache, and in fact I alredy used his face for a sauromatae unit... (but with a smaller mustache):beam:
Keep in mind that the pictures have to be of good quality, and the faces have to be seen from the front. It's better if the faces have no expression (no smile, etc, but they can look a bit angry), and a good lightning too.
Now show your faces !:beam:
Are you talking about the French rugby player? You have to post a screen of him ingame!
Oh and what are you going to do with these faces? Are you going to make each one individually in zbrush (teh win) or use an automated face generator like facegen (teh suck) or 3dmenow (pictured)?