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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Thanks for the great preview!! That's two in a short period of time! You guys are great.
I love all the visual detail in the unit previews. Really brings life to the still images.
I noticed one thing that made me scratch my head, though. In the first wallpaper, some of the soldiers have a cone sticking out of their heads. Is that a hairstyle or just some other part of the model clipping through?
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
hair knots all germans had them
according to the gallic wars the kelts had their hair died in a white lime while germans used hairknots
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
The socalled Suebian Knot (Suebian = Sweboz) was a hairstyle popular amongst the Suebi confederation, not all Germans; and probably not even all Sweboz. Which is why we included it, but not on all.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
war is hell
Oh I feel dumb now. Why doesn't he have one of those cool banners like the rest of you guys?
TBH it is because I am 1) a nub when it comes to banners; the internal forum is OVERWHELMING in its size and complexity, so I forgot where to get the banners
2) I am an arrogant bastard that believes everybody knows me; of course not having been active in the Public Forum for a year precludes a relative newcomer (45 posts) doing so.
So, no worries, you are not dumb; Joe (CMAQ) lives across the Pond, he might drink it for me. He deserves it, for him, Jasper and Alin does the majority of the work in any case.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Wow...That was an amazing preview!! I'm sort of interested in them now thanks to the cutting edge graphics despite the fact that I've never played them before
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
I'm wondering. Why are the Germanic archers now using knives instead of spears?
Also, will there be a Germanic pikeman unit? Never found anything to support such an unit, if there is it should probably have an ordinary shield and just a very long spear.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Macilrille
TBH it is because I am 1) a nub when it comes to banners; the internal forum is OVERWHELMING in its size and complexity, so I forgot where to get the banners
2) I am an arrogant bastard that believes everybody knows me; of course not having been active in the Public Forum for a year precludes a relative newcomer (45 posts) doing so.
So, no worries, you are not dumb; Joe (CMAQ) lives across the Pond, he might drink it for me. He deserves it, for him, Jasper and Alin does the majority of the work in any case.
lol ok then nice to meet you. If there is ever an EB meet up in the Miami, FL area your beer will be waiting for you, cheers.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phalanx300
I'm wondering. Why are the Germanic archers now using knives instead of spears?
Also, will there be a Germanic pikeman unit? Never found anything to support such an unit, if there is it should probably have an ordinary shield and just a very long spear.
the cimbrii are said to have used a solid pike formation
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
We cannot divulge more yet, you will just have to wait.
But I can point out the fairly common knowledge that it was not the Cimbrii that used a pike phalanx, it was the Suebi; they are clearly described to be doing so in Caesar's Gallic Wars. Furthermore, in my native Denmark there are numerous gravefinds of "lance" heads associated with the warrior aristocracy.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
moonburn
hair knots all germans had them
according to the gallic wars the kelts had their hair died in a white lime while germans used hairknots
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phalanx300
Can't the same be said of certain Celtic helmets which will be used?
The are no metal helmets known from the Pre-Roman iron age known but imported celtic helmets are a possibility.
Expect only a few of the Sweboz warriors equiped with helmets.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheTank
The are no metal helmets known from the Pre-Roman iron age known but imported celtic helmets are a possibility.
I think Phalanx300 meant to ask if the argument of impracticability couldn't equally be made against the elaborate helmets used for the Celtic generals.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
To some degree, of course. The helmets of the elite are all about making the wearer look the part, but the Viksø helmets do sacrifice a bit more than usual in terms of usabiliy:
http://oldtiden.natmus.dk/udstilling...g/language/uk/
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Macilrille
We cannot divulge more yet, you will just have to wait.
But I can point out the fairly common knowledge that it was not the Cimbrii that used a pike phalanx, it was the Suebi; they are clearly described to be doing so in Caesar's Gallic Wars. Furthermore, in my native Denmark there are numerous gravefinds of "lance" heads associated with the warrior aristocracy.
You mean this?
Quote:
"caes.gal.1.52": [1.52] Caesar appointed over each legion a lieutenant and a questor, that every one might have them as witnesses of his valor. He himself began the battle at the head of the right wing, because he had observed that part of the enemy to be the least strong. Accordingly our men, upon the signal being given, vigorously made an attack upon the enemy, and the enemy so suddenly and rapidly rushed forward, that there was no time for casting the javelins at them. Throwing aside [therefore] their javelins, they fought with swords hand to hand. But the Germans, according to their custom, rapidly forming a phalanx, sustained the attack of our swords. There were found very many of our soldiers who leaped upon the phalanx, and with their hands tore away the shields, and wounded the enemy from above.
It mentions them forming a Phalanx but still using their shields. Which would probably mean a Hoplite style Phalanx rather then a Pike Phalanx. Also seeing the shields of the Germanic warriors which probably wouldn't be suited for a Pike Phalanx.
I think it just means the Germanics forming a Shieldwall, as was their custom. The Romans labelled it a Phalanx because Hoplites used a similar tactic. Don't see anything supporting a Pike unit.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Amazing.... congratz!!!!
V.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Phalanx300
It mentions them forming a Phalanx but still using their shields. Which would probably mean a Hoplite style Phalanx rather then a Pike Phalanx. Also seeing the shields of the Germanic warriors which probably wouldn't be suited for a Pike Phalanx.
I think it just means the Germanics forming a Shieldwall, as was their custom. The Romans labelled it a Phalanx because Hoplites used a similar tactic. Don't see anything supporting a Pike unit.
Indeed, my render of this was 'shieldwall' and not phalanx. In English the Greek word 'phalanx' simply means 'formation.'
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Amazing preview, I can't wait to use the early and late Sweboz units to ambush and crush the Romani!
I noticed that in the unit description for the Germanic Levy spearmen they are described as not being particularly organised because they didn't serve in as regular a capacity as other warriors. Does this mean that Celtic Levy spearmen are also going to be more disorganised in EB2? I ask this only because I was very surprised when I first saw that Lugoae were as organised as Gaelaiche, who are part of the warrior class.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
The Celtic levies will be that same as the Sweboz levies in EB2.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BigJohn
I ask this only because I was very surprised when I first saw that Lugoae were as organised as Gaelaiche, who are part of the warrior class.
where did you read that?
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Just wanted to say thanks for the update. Really enjoyed it!
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Very nice. The units are fantastic. And it's a pleasure to see in advance those ugly bearded trousered barbarians (sorry) who will be butchered by my very civilized Greek troops. For the peace in the world. :wacko:
The names and the timeframe for the different tribes in the introduction: is there any new hard evidence for it or is it a -necessary and acceptable- speculation based on later ancient reports?
Last but not least, I hope for a preview of a Greek faction in the near future. :juggle2:
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
This is amazing! I am truly speechless. Way to go, EB Team! :yes:
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tellos Athenaios
That's more of a crown than a practical helmet - great for letting your own men see you, so they know you're not dead, but a liability in a close fight. Wearing that helmet, I'd rather stand in a chariot and throw javelins, not fight hand to hand.
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tellos Athenaios
I would prefere the viksö over the one with the bird...
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheTank
The are no metal helmets known from the Pre-Roman iron age known but imported celtic helmets are a possibility. Expect only a few of the Sweboz warriors equiped with helmets.
I always meant to bring this up, but aren't those Viksø type helmeted 'leaping men' dipicted on the Gundestrup cauldron? By the way, the Romans had a primitive cult/priesthood of 'the leaping men' called the Salii. Dedicated to Mars they were dancing youths who bore 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
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Salii, 'ancilia' and scandinavian 'v-notched' shields
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cmacq
[...]By the way, the Romans had a primitive cult/priesthood of 'the leaping men' called the Salii. Dedicated to Mars they were dancing youths who bore 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
An really interesting hypothetical nexus :yes:, but presumably equally speculative :wink2:. Two questions, which just (too much leisure lately :wink2:) sprang into my mind:
1.Weren't the Italic Bronze Age ancilia - of which type the sacred shields of Mars probably were - originally derived from rather ordinary single round-shields (cf. the Northern European Yetholm-type shield) riveted together - partially overlapping and thus resembling the much earlier and unrelated Mycenean 'figure-eight shield'?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cmacq
[...] 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
2.Doesn't 'v-notched' usually refer to details of the molded (leather shields) or embossed (bronze shields) decor - the shape of the 'indentation' of the concentric grooves ringing the shield boss (cf. this reconstruction of the 'u-notch' Irish Cloonlara shield)?
The preserved Italic bronze ancilia IIRC don't show this indentation - only concentric grooves, ridges and various decorative patterns of embossed 'buckles' - they were neither 'v-notched' like the wooden and leathern shields of Northern Europe nor 'u-notched' like
some contemporary Villanovan round-shields (?).
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3 Attachment(s)
Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cmacq
I always meant to bring this up, but aren't those Viksø type helmeted 'leaping men' dipicted on the Gundestrup cauldron? By the way, the Romans had a primitive cult/priesthood of 'the leaping men' called the Salii. Dedicated to Mars they were dancing youths who bore 'sacred V-notched shields' similar in concept to examples found in northern Scandinavia.
Yes, I know of that depiction.
The Romans also mentioned Cimbri warriors wearing animal shaped helmets and the Gundestrup cauldron also depicted Raven and boar chested helmets.
Interesting depictions of warriors turn up much later in the Germanic iron age.
Like these depictions below.
Attachment 1402
Attachment 1403
Attachment 1404
There is evidence that mail coats where used but extremely rare in Northern Europe during the Pre-Roman iron age but Helmets is another matter.
I do know of a very odd wooden "Helmets" found in Denmark.
They are not carbon dated but the helmet style suggest that they date from the Pre-Roman iron age.
This link you can read a bit more about it.
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat.htm...d=25&id=287668
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Re: Europa Barbarorum 2: Sweboz preview I
Anyone see that CA used a very very similar faction symbol for the Suebi as you guys are using for the Sweboz in EB2? I think that the stated purpose of the original EB team has definitely been heard in CA's offices.:yes: