Help Me! I suck

Title just about sums it up. I cannot seem to win battles, nor can I seem to do well on the map. I really can only win battles when I have a large number advantage coupled with better units, as my units always rout before theirs do.

Additionally, my economy is always in the pooper. I can maintain one large, high quality army, one small, low quality army, and a sizable fleet. However, I start to lose income once I have all this, yet it seems other nations can consistently match my large army, then out produce me.

Basically, what I'm looking for is just general tips to survive the big map, and an in depth explanation of the combat and the economy systems, and how they work.

Edit: To clarify, I have read two guides, including Frogbeastegg's. They were helpful, but they did not really give an in depth explanation of combat and how it works - mostly just what to do. I need to know how things work before I can actually figure out what tot do.

I suggest a few things:

(1) Play and master the tutorials. I tend to replay the tutorial until I feel I cannot improve any further.

(2) Lower the difficulty and come back later.

(3) Read more guides. There are far more than two in the ORG. Frog's guide is undoubtedly the best guide among all out there, but you can always use more knowledge especially on the practical side. You do not have to agree with the authors completely. But it is good to hear different perspectives.

(4) Watch battle videos. Look for those recorded live from an actual campaign battle. This way you can see how exactly the battle is played out.

Here is an example:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053456137

(5) Read story/AARs. Most of them are nothing more than stories, but sometimes you can find general game tips. Welcome to try my stories and see if you like my works. :on_blush:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...post2053458638

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mrpebbles

Title just about sums it up. I cannot seem to win battles, nor can I seem to do well on the map. I really can only win battles when I have a large number advantage coupled with better units, as my units always rout before theirs do.

Additionally, my economy is always in the pooper. I can maintain one large, high quality army, one small, low quality army, and a sizable fleet. However, I start to lose income once I have all this, yet it seems other nations can consistently match my large army, then out produce me.

Basically, what I'm looking for is just general tips to survive the big map, and an in depth explanation of the combat and the economy systems, and how they work.

Edit: To clarify, I have read two guides, including Frogbeastegg's. They were helpful, but they did not really give an in depth explanation of combat and how it works - mostly just what to do. I need to know how things work before I can actually figure out what tot do.

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@Mrpebbles

Firstly I'll advertise my own beginners guide
I also learned a lot from Lady Frog's earlier guides when I started with the series.

If that fails, just take a few screenshots of your deployment and when your army starts to lose. Maybe some pointers may help you in the right direction.

Is your battle difficulty on normal? If it's higher then the enemy units have better morale than yours. If your campaign difficulty is on hard or above then not only do magical armies fall out of the sky for your enemies to send at you but also your neighbours will constantly declare war on you. It starts with one, then the next turn another follows, then another, until eventually you're at war with all your neighbours. My advice would be play a campaign as the Oda on normal difficulty for both campaign and battle. Oda have good Ashigaru units right from the start. Let Yari Ashigaru in pike formation form a solid line at least 4 ranks deep and use archers to whittle down the enemy or lure them in to charging your Yari Ashigaru. Once you get Oda long Yari Ashigaru and you recruit them in Sagami(?), the provine with the blacksmith, you have a cheap good unit with good armour/weapon upgrades. Form your armies primarily with those and complement it with 3 or 4 high quality Samurai units, archers and a unit of light cavalry or two to chase down fleeing enemies if you like.

Actually after spending months observing the AIs, I can confidently say that there is no magical army awarded to the AIs. They still need to recruit armies like humans do, although they enjoy a discount on recruitment and upkeep. So this gives an impression that AI gets free army. If you sabotage the AI's castle, they can't get any army from the province during that season. :on_beg:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maltz

Actually after spending months observing the AIs, I can confidently say that there is no magical army awarded to the AIs. They still need to recruit armies like humans do, although they enjoy a discount on recruitment and upkeep. So this gives an impression that AI gets free army. If you sabotage the AI's castle, they can't get any army from the province during that season. :on_beg:

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I'm under the impression that on hard and beyond the AI can get an extra recruitment slot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maltz

Actually after spending months observing the AIs, I can confidently say that there is no magical army awarded to the AIs. They still need to recruit armies like humans do, although they enjoy a discount on recruitment and upkeep. So this gives an impression that AI gets free army. If you sabotage the AI's castle, they can't get any army from the province during that season. :on_beg:

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Then how the hell did the Oda come at me with 15 units of Yari Samurai in 8 turns when I was playing as Hojo? They must have recruited them in 7 turns because it would have taken at least one turn to transport them by boat. Because they fell out of the sky, that's how.

The game gives "Great Clans" more starting units to increase their chance of survival.
The Oda AI usually makes an army of 70% Yari 30% Bow. If it uses all Ashigaru, it usually has a full stack by turn 7 or so.
But what you mentioned is quite extraordinary. Do you mind giving a screenshot? I find it a little hard to believe.
Here are some reasonable expectations:

Hatakeyama, Turn 5
http://ccc-ccc.ca/tmp/temp_2012/stw2...attori_028.jpg

Shoni, Turn 9
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/attac...6&d=1329796684

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maltz

Actually after spending months observing the AIs, I can confidently say that there is no magical army awarded to the AIs. They still need to recruit armies like humans do, although they enjoy a discount on recruitment and upkeep. So this gives an impression that AI gets free army. If you sabotage the AI's castle, they can't get any army from the province during that season. :on_beg:

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I know little about it.

I'll just repeat what others have said: Read the guides

If the faction you want to play has a guide_read it; it is nice to know what sort of challenges you will face.

If you go with Oda; read what econ21 and Jarmam have to say: mere mass indeed has a quality all its own.

Each of Maltz's stories are in fact guides; the focus of each changes slightly but illustrate what, why and how different parts of the game work and fit together. I believe he has a link to them in his sig. The Guide to Bait tactics is brilliant.

Outside of that; rush trade ports and the nodes in the West :)

The fastest way to learn the game properly, play a co-op campaign with someone who knows what they are doing. Watch, learn, ask questions.

When you're done with that campaign, assuming you've been paying attention, you'll know how to play the game.

You learn best by doing, not reading a guide.

I struggled a lot with economy to start with (still might, I've only completed an Easy Campaign so far, working on Normal at the moment) and what helped me was two things: One Frogbeastegg's guide in general (though you've said you've already read that) the other was a random guide I read somewhere (I think on GameFAQs? not sure) which basically said: the key to the economy is to understand how town growth works. That to foster town growth will help your economy soar and to do that you should put your taxes at their lowest possible from turn one and keep it there, unless you need a fast influx of cash in which case put it up for a couple turns, then back down once you got the cash you needed. Now, I'm sure a bunch of veterans will probably come in and say that's actually not a very good strategy, especially on some of the higher difficulty levels, and I'm not suggesting it is, but it worked for me in my easy Shimazu campaign, and also helped me understand the power of town growth.

So a couple suggestions for the economy side: (These are things you'll probably find in guides anyways)
*Always have your farms upgraded as high as they can, prioritising your most fertile provinces first. Each level of farm gives you one more rice, excess rice is added to town growth.
*Grab the trade nodes if you can, and put a number of trade ships on them (some say 5, some say a full stack of 10)
*Try to get trade agreements with people you don't intended to go to war with in the campaign (eg if you're Shimazu, look at Hojo, Takeda, Date etc)
*Metsuke overseeing your richest provinces, and when they level give them points in overseeing towns.
*Try not to rush units early on, just use what you need to capture your immediate goals, and mainly field Ashigaru early on.

These are just some things that helped me get over the same issue you're having, and hopefully once you get over it you'll be able to make your own decisions on what ones are worth keeping and what needs modifying (either for your playstyle, or because they don't work at higher levels). As for battles, the others have already suggested a lot. I'll add to the people suggesting Maltz's guides/AARs they're both informative and fun to read.

I disagree with the folks who suggest Oda as a good place to figure stuff out--I think that clan actually takes some know how at the get go to get rolling. Shimazu is good because you have a natural development and clear goals and some great provinces nearby. Most importantly, the trade nodes are near.

A few basics that some folks miss?

• Rushing trade is a big thing in the early game, economy wise. Trae with everyone you possibly can. And then build more trade ports to trade with more people.
• Keep most castles small. Don't build more than a market in most provinces--exception being for your smith province (melee) and to a certain degree your craftworks province (range). Unfortunately, the rice exchanges and so on aren't worth it.
• Key early techs are Way of the Bow (fire arrows) and Heaven and Earth (encampment/armory).
• Be sure to upgrade farms in places with rich soil first for money. Look at resource maps like these.
• When provinces are unhappy, their growth goes severely negative. This is very bad. If a province is unhappy for 5 turns, (consecutive or otherwise) it will lose more than 100 of its value. Over the course of the game, that's a lot. In 5 years, that's 2000 gold (that could have been used to buy two markets, for example--so there's a kind of snowball there). For the same reason, you can't overtax your people--it hurts growth too much and will hurt your economy a lot in the long term. Early on, you might need low or even normal taxes to get things rolling. Most folks advocate shifting to minimal taxes as soon as you can.
• Combat in the game is generally a combination of (1) rock-scissors-paper (spears beat horsies, swords beat spears, etc.) (2) maneuvering to attack with units in the flank or rear and (3) using terrain bonuses. You can also game the AI--it has predictible patterns that can be exploited. For example, you can lure units away from their friends by presenting an easy target.

What else can we tell you?

Oh speaking of resource maps... this is my favorite one to use: http://shogun.bitcrumbs.com/

I am not good at writting guides, but I can say from my own experience in this game and previous versions.

I started at normal difficulty level. It turned out, it was perfect for me at that time, because when I tried hard, my troops started loosing moral and running from the battlefield somewhere in the beginning of the battle. Later, I understood that there are a lot of ways to sustain good moral for your troops.

Try to use advantages provided by the terrain, i.e. occupy hills and place troops in the woods. Be cunny) And not to forget that you are playing with a machine, which gives you benefits :)

A like the tactics of giving bribes to smaller armies of enemies. It is always x2 benefit - they lose it, you gain it.
Of course, this requires good economics. At the beginning of the game I try to build the appropriate sea-port at once to start building trade-ships and send them as fast as I can to the trading-posts. Even if some of them are already occupied you can leave your traders there and keep an eye on them, because a player occupying htis trading post might get involved into war and his troops might get killed by someone else, and that's where you take over the post)
And don't rush into things until you have at least some 3-4k income.

Well, that's how I do it.